Episode #7: Men Need Balance Too - Our Men's Program at the Integrative Hormone Center for Men

Lyn Hogrefe & Jeff Hogrefe talk though our Men's Program at the integrative Hormone Center for Men. 

Hormone balance is important for men, but over & above hormone optimization our goal for men is to access cardiac risk & keep an eye on prostate health. Jeff's real passion is to protect men against heart disease & prostate cancer. 

Our strategy for both women & men is to extend life & give them the best quality of life.

Topics covered:
~side effects of ED drugs
~compounded ED medications
~supplementation strategy
~getting the right balance between estrogen & testosterone in men
~estrogens in diet
~how low estrogen in men affects sex drive

To learn more about our Men's Program call 513-444-6343 or visit us at https://happyhormonecottage.com/ihc-for-men-mens-health/

***Although our HHC has a telemedicine license to easily service clients in Ohio and Florida, we can also work with clients who live out of state as long as they come and visit us in person annually. Our goal in publishing this podcast nationally is for the educational value contained within. Education is key!***


 

Transcript

Pam: [00:00:00] Welcome, everyone. At the Happy Hormone Cottage, we talk a lot about women's health and the effects of that aging has over time on our bodies and how it affects our quality of life. Have you ever wondered if men also go through these exciting times as well? It might surprise you that they indeed do.

Today, we are going to switch gears a bit and we are going to focus on men. I almost feel like we should have that theme song. It's raining men. Yes. Men also experience hormone imbalance and they also go through the aging process. It's not quite the same as women and it is a much slower process than what women experience, but it does also affect the quality of life.

Welcome everyone to the happy hormone cottage podcast. At the Happy Hormone Cottage, our mission is to educate people on the various treatments for hormone imbalance so everyone can live their best life. Our motto is get tested, get treated, get better. [00:01:00] My name is Pam Gross. And as I said in the opener, today's conversation is all about men.

And we are welcoming to the show today, Lyn Hogrefe, who is the founder and the executive director of Happy Hormone Cottage, and Jeff Hogrefe, who is the compounding pharmacist and advanced fellowship in functional medicine and the owner of the Integrative Hormone Center. Welcome to both of you. Thank you so much for sitting down today so that we can talk about a subject that quite frankly doesn't really get a lot of attention.

And so Lyn, I kind of want to start with you, because I want to know how... The Happy Hormone Cottage got into the men's business. And so kind of tell me how you started the IHC Center for Men. Kind of walk me through how you created 

Lyn: all that. Sure. Listen, it was never my intention. Began my cottage in 09 with working with women and Have a great time educating empowering them to learn about the best choices for their body and help them with that piece and then About [00:02:00] 2013 they began coming back to me into the cottage They would give me a big hug and they'd say Lyn I feel amazing and I was so happy They said I work I send my air quotes here old fart husband and I'm like, oh god No, not me.

No men are so weird. Don't make me I can't do it I go home I tell my husband Jeff, you know another woman came and wanted me to help their husband and Finally, I don't know, a while later, he said, Oh my God, woman, for heaven's sakes, I give up, I'm in, I'll do it. And he went back to school and got his advanced fellowship in functional medicine.

About 2016, 17, he began, he opened up his own little center called the Integrative Hormone Center for Men. And kind of the rest is history, you know, men are... A different animal if you will they kind of just wonder in or more appropriate their wives call for them to make an appointment they're starting to talk more and more at the gym or maybe around the the sports bar about some of the way they're feeling that's been helpful the conversations sort of evolving but we spend no money on advertising we don't spend one penny on advertising we don't need to.

Because when I talk with women and they mention their [00:03:00] husbands just kind of evolves organically. And so we're actually very busy. We have this great facility and men will speak, Jeff will speak with the men and kind of educate them as well. And they are also beginning to feel their best and having their rest of their lives be the best of their life as well.

So I'm excited about the actual whole endeavor. And it's very pain, I don't have to work with the men myself, which is a great relief for me because I'm involved with my women and I'm really busy with them. But Jeff is the arm of the men's piece. So, Jeff, go ahead and take it away with, um, the IHC for 

Jeff: Men Center.

Honey, you're missing a boat because guys are much easier to deal with than women, aren't they? 

Lyn: I think maybe if you are a guy, it helps, but... 

Pam: It's funny because I stated in the opening about the fact that men experience the aging process and hormonal imbalance. differently than women do. Women have a reproductive phase in their lives.

And it's why you go through puberty, because that's when we're getting ready to have our babies. And then when that phase is over, women transition kind of to another phase in the [00:04:00] aging process. And that's kind of when the hormone imbalance kind of occurs. Men's reproductive life is forever. Sadly, that's true.

Yeah, I know. And so there's really no real transition for them. And so Lyn, number one, everything that I just said there, do you agree with that? Is it kind of correct? But also kind of walk us through what women experience when they're aging. And how this experience differs from men, and then Jeff, I'm putting you on the spot next.

Yes, so Jeff, I'll talk 

Lyn: about the women, you talk about the men, since you are one and certainly knows I'm not. But for women, you know, once they hit about 35 ish, the ovaries begin to age and they become less fertile, a high risk pregnancy, their ovaries begin to make less progesterone. Then they begin to realize, huh.

There's something different going on and every year that goes beyond 35 being experienced things like maybe some sleep issues, fatigue, energy, some brain fog, lower libido, weight gain, and it just seems to exacerbate every year [00:05:00] by the time they're my favorite age ever of 42. God, I love 42 year olds.

They're right in the beginning stages typically of perimenopause from 42 to about 48, which is my favorite age because they really do need help. They're not sure what's going on. What the heck am I feeling? Why is this happening? Why is it never going to end? And they go to their doctor for help and they are often offered things like birth control or Prozac or Ambienonite.

That makes me sort of twitch because they're not Prozac deficient. So, I love educating them on what their, their most holistic and natural choices could be so they understand their bodies and what's going on, and it's not their fault, and they can be, it is aging, but they can be helped, something we can do for them, right, they're not just going to have to croak in misery someday, so that's kind of the women's, they're pretty, pretty specific, and you can determine what's going to happen and when, it's postmenopause,

They're pretty distinct stages with a name. For men, they don't have those same stages. I mean, I know the symptoms of, of aging men with like some depression and lack of muscle [00:06:00] mass and some weight gain and fatigue and energy issues. And I would assume it's because of a lack of testosterone, but you're the expert, you take it away and kind of explain this whole piece.

Yeah. Men 

Jeff: don't have those overt symptoms. They don't have hot flashes and all those things going on. So it is a more subtle thing. With guys, it's a gradual reduction in vitality, typically, is what we see. And it occurs at various ages, and I think a lot of it has to do with diet, exercise, stress, and all those kind of things.

So with the men's program, and I'll start off by saying that I don't think we're as sophisticated with men as we are with women right now. And that's changing, but I just think that we, we have a lot of work to do with men. They are complicated. They don't seem on the surface very complicated, but their biology is fairly complicated.

The idea of doing a men's center was something that I really kind of have a passion for because I mean, I deal with it and I feel like I can help a lot of guys in what we [00:07:00] do. So I was very fortunate to partner with a physician, Dr. Alan Gould. Who also speaks this language and is also has the advanced fellowship and sees things a lot like I do.

So our partnership is pretty good because he can manage the testosterone therapy for guys and I can do kind of the fillings and I can do what I would call added value and work with them on diet and nutrition and supplements. And kind of give my two cents with the other hormones for dealing with cortisol and thyroid as well.

And so it's been a really good marriage between Dr. Gould and I to treat the men. 

Pam: You said some things in there that are so true. Number one, that women, as Lyn had described, women have very kind of specific things that we kind of go through. In our whole aging process and our whole midlife changes and stuff.

But you're right, men are, it's very subtle in men. And I think it's interesting when you said that the, that, that there's a lot [00:08:00] of work to still be done with the Men's Center and, and with men in general. Because number one, this is not something that men talk about. So that's number one, is there's not a lot of information out there, so education is key here.

But you're right, the biology is very complicated. And it was funny because from what I was reading in my research, is, and this is again something you said Jeff, was that men's decline is gradual. It is in very subtle, gradual stages. And I was reading, and they were kind of described as the first stage was hormone loss, which is the testosterone.

Basically, the first thing that most men notice is that they don't have the same sex drive and the same virility that they maybe had when they were a little bit younger. They said that the second phase is what they call emotional. This is kind of the part where we, we look at them and they're going through their midlife crisis.

And I even actually read someone who referred to this phase as men turn into geriatric [00:09:00] teenagers. Which I thought was kind of funny, because that's, if you think about it, that's kind of when men trade in their age appropriate wife for a younger woman and they buy a Corvette. And so, yeah, and that just kind of resonated with me.

I was like, yep, you see that every day. And then the third phase was kind of old age itself. At that point in time, your body's a little achy and a little creaky. Got hair loss and you got wrinkles. I mean, you're getting old. I mean, that's just the way it is. I like the way you described all of that, because I think that is, And so Jeff, one of the things that I was surprised because we talk about women all the time and we talk about menopause, I know that's not your favorite word, not mine either, but I was surprised to learn that men also go through menopause and that it's called andropause.

Andropause. Yeah. So can you kind of explain what that is and kind of describe maybe some of the symptoms of that? 

Jeff: Preface this by saying that muscle. It's a currency of aging. Okay. [00:10:00] And as we lose muscle, we age and we move into this area called sarcopenia. I would look at my 88 year old dad and say, yeah, that's what sarcopenia is.

He's got no butt. He's got skinny little arms and legs and a big belly. So he's transitioned. His body has changed. He's lost lean muscle and he's, he's gained a lot of belly fat and stuff like that. That is classic low testosterone. Okay. And this is a gradual thing. To me, andropause is really about the loss of testosterone and the influence of cortisol or stress when that testosterone level is not at the optimal level, causing the breakdown of muscle and truthfully the breakdown of bone as well.

Because that they, they lose bone strength as well. So what we want to try and do is restore them back to a decent level. Okay. I think what makes us different than what I would say most hormone centers or [00:11:00] men's centers is that, yes, testosterone is part of the equation, but we're not really all about is about just.

Again, it's a very integrative approach and we certainly want to use testosterone as a tool to help men kind of regain their muscle and their bone strength as well 

Pam: too. Lyn, I think one of the things, and we've talked about this a lot on our podcast, is that there's a lot of hesitation, a lot of concern from women regarding BHRT hormone therapy.

Do you think that men share that same? Concern. I mean, we know that they don't talk the same way women do, and they don't share as women do, though. I will say, honestly, I have never bought into that. If you've ever been around a bunch of men, they're the biggest bunch of gossips you've ever seen in your life.

Well, that is true. I know. It's just funny how we always hear that it's always women. And I'm like, have you ever stood in a corner and listened to a bunch of men? Yeah, that's true. But anyway, sorry. Yeah. But my point [00:12:00] is, is that do you think that men share the same concern? In regards to what women have been told about hormone therapy, and then how, and this is a question for both of you, how, how can we better reach out to them and how do we teach them about this natural kind of aging process?

Lyn: Yeah, I don't think that there is the same kind of confusion and fear. Among the male population in terms of hormones, because you know, with women back in the day when hormone therapy began HRT, they use the synthetic drugs masking as hormone that had the cancer risk associated and that that's been back in the 80s, 90s and up until about 2002, it was rampant and so a lot of medical practitioners and even people in the older demographics still hang on to those myths and confusion and don't really understand that that's really not what the current therapy is all about.

It's the BHRT that's much safer and That's what we are immersed in. So all that, the confusion and the myths really don't surround the men piece. So I would think the men don't have any kind of [00:13:00] hesitation when they notice issues with their depression, muscle mass, bedroom performance. That's really what wake up call for them.

And they're, they're willing to reach out and get help from their PCP. Their practitioner or other men and then they go to seek help. I mean, androgen and what is Jeff called androgel has been around for many years. The PCP will prescribe with the rubber on their arm. And so I don't think that there's, I don't think there is any fear of confusion with the men that they are like women.

Yeah. 

Jeff: Yeah. I don't think men have been hormonally manipulated like women. So I don't think that's a good 

Pam: point. Ever thought about it that way. Yeah. Huh. I never thought about that that way, but the way that that's actually exactly what has gone on. 

Lyn: Yeah, I know. I know that when we began the men's center that men would come in and they would have gone to their PCP for measuring their testosterone in blood, which we do that as well.

They would be given a prescription for androgel and they put it on their arm or whatever and they'd have these huge levels. But Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong. If you, prescribed to a man a lot of testosterone. They use it topically and it increases their testosterone level to such an amount that it shuts down their body's own [00:14:00] production of testosterone, right?

Is 

Jeff: that true? Yeah. I mean, this gets into sort of the weeds in terms of testosterone therapy. And so this is a matter of experience and dealing with guys over the years. We don't tend to shut down that production as much as you can when you use high dose injectable testosterone, that tends to shut down production more.

But on the flip side too, is that if a guy starts making a lot of estrogen, that also shuts down testosterone production too. So again, you know, we talked about the Dutch test and how we weren't always looking for hormone levels, we were looking for trends and patterns. It's sort of the same. With me and guys, I mean, guys are always like, what's my test?

What's my test level? And they base their life on their total test. And that's like, that's not always true. I do think there is a group of guys that are what I would call very testosterone driven. [00:15:00] And they're low. They know it. And if you give them testosterone, it's like a light switch and boom, they feel like that.

And that's a nice effect. But I don't think all guys are like that. I think most guys fall in the middle is that they just kind of need to be balanced between testosterone and estrogen. And some other strategies in order to maintain a healthy lifestyle on the flip side, you got to think about this balance that you're walking testosterone therapy that people don't think about that too much testosterone will shorten your life, right?

Because you'll start making insulin growth IGF levels that start going up. And when we see certain levels going up, we know that it's sort of accelerating the aging of your, your cells as well. So we're always like, well, we want, we want testosterone, we want muscle, we want bones, but not at the expense of shortening your life.

And so we want to walk a fine line and say, what does this guy who's in front of [00:16:00] me, who's 40 years old or 50 years old, what are they going to look like at 60? What are they going to look like at 70? What are they going to look like at 80? And how can we managing through this, this next 30, 40 years? So we're getting kind of the best of both worlds.

And I think we missed the boat because I think right now the, in general, it's all about using high doses of testosterone, testosterone, testosterone, testosterone, testosterone. For a lot of guys, it's a problem. 

Lyn: And I want to jump in here if I could and say, you know, people talking all the time about their husbands and, and men's centers.

And I will say that there are a lot of low T clinics out there, almost in every corner. I'm exaggerating, but there's a lot of them. What sets us apart and what makes us different is this, Jeff's real passion is reducing heart disease and prostate cancer, which is going to take the men out more than low testosterone.

So when he has an integrative functional medicine approach where he wants to look at blood levels for a lot of things in the body, not just testosterone, and then address those. And try to prevent the disease that is that are going to kill them at the same [00:17:00] time. So I'm proud of our men's center because I think it's authenticity and integrity and looks at the body as a whole and not just testosterone, not just, not just for a quick buck, but how are the men, how is your health going to be for the long haul and how can I help them have the best quality of life in the entire arena?

And I'm really proud 

Jeff: of that. You, you got a guy who's 20, 20, 30 years old comes to you. You're going to treat them very different than the guy who comes to you 60 or 70 years old. It's a different strategy. It's a different. End game that you're looking at. 

Pam: Yeah, that's one of my questions is with your IHC Men's Center.

Is your approach with men different than your approach with women? So, so there is definitely a different approach. Yes. 

Jeff: Okay. I would say that our strategy for everyone is to extend their life and give them the best quality of life. I mean, that's the overriding theme of what we're trying to do, men and women.

Pam: One of the things that we've talked about over and over again is that one size doesn't fit all. Is that the same for men as it is when we say that to [00:18:00] women? Oh, absolutely. Okay. So, again, it doesn't matter whether you're a male or a female. Right. If you're looking at... You're still an individual and you're still different.

Jeff: Yeah. If you're looking at just testosterone levels, a guy with a testosterone level of 400 may be feeling great. And a guy with a testosterone level of 1200 may say, Oh man, I have low teeth, right? And it's like, wait a second, that doesn't make any sense. But if it's, there's a lot to that, that we're trying to tease out as well.

Yeah, you have 

Pam: to treat them individually. One of the things that I was reading on your website about the IHC Men's Center had to do with men's testing. Jeff, I was wondering, can you walk us through that whole process of when a man comes into your clinic and says, okay, I'm ready. And I think I'm not feeling quite the way I used to feel.

Walk us through that process and about the whole testing and all 

Jeff: of that. Right. It's a. Interview with the guy. What do you, what do you want? What are you here for? What are your goals? What medications are you taking? What supplements are you taking? What's [00:19:00] your family history? What's your chronic illnesses?

What's your biggest issue with what's going on? And that often directs the testing. Now, because we need to get a PSA, which is Prostate specific, right, to see if you have any risk or any issues with prostate cancer, which is a blood test. Now, we do do blood. We don't do Dutch kits right away with the guys.

And so we'll measure free testosterone, we'll measure total testosterone, we'll measure estrogens, we'll measure PSA, and then a lot of times we're going to look at metabolic factors. We're going to look at fasting insulin, we're going to look at A1C, we're going to look at some, some really specific cardiovascular risk.

Okay. As well, because I think cardiovascular risk is very important for any guy at any age coming to us. That's the initial blood work. And then based on that, we kind of roll that in with the symptoms and then come up with a plan as well. 

Pam: Something else I want to kind of talk about is, and this is specifically for men, One of the things that you talk about on your [00:20:00] website as well has to do with treatments for erectile dysfunction, ED.

And we see obviously commercials everywhere and they talk about the biggest one obviously is Viagra. One of the things that I've learned about all of these things is that's a really expensive drug. One of the things on your website is that you talk about that there's compounded medications for ED. And that they are considerably less expensive.

Can you kind of explain this in a little more detail? 

Jeff: We don't really look at the price terribly much in terms of what we're trying to do. Because I think pricing has come down for a lot of those products as well. But my experience in talking with my guys is that Viagra causes side effects. And then the other one, Cialis, causes a whole other subset of side effects.

Specifically, a lot of back pain with Cialis. 

Pam: I like the one commercial where it says, if you take this, you might experience blindness. [00:21:00] I'm like, why would 

Lyn: you 

Pam: take 

Jeff: that? I'm sorry. Viagra is typically a quicker acting product. And Cialis is a slower acting, longer acting type product. And so if we kind of combine them into different kinds of formulations, dissolvable trochees or capsules, you know, we can get the best of both worlds, and eliminate some of the side effects with this.

If you get a lower dose of Cialis, because you have the vaccine, you can take it okay. If you get issues with, well not blindness per se, but if you have like the headaches and all those things that you get with Viagra, lower that dose and then add a little Cialis. So we can kind of manipulate those 

Pam: two.

We just did a podcast on chronic diseases as well as supplements. We've touched upon, obviously, that men also suffer from the same chronic diseases, particularly when it comes to heart issues and when it comes to prostate. Let's talk about supplements. Are there supplements that men [00:22:00] should be taking that are different than what women need?

I 

Lyn: think it's important that they have a strategy based on great holistic, an overview of their body functionally and what, what their needs might be and that they are educated. And Jeff, I think, I know one, a lot of our men might be also taking the product called DIM. To help methylate out a lot of excess estrogen, but again, it's a strategic approach and it's, it's kind of looks at the body as a whole.

What are you seeing with the men? 

Jeff: Right, so it's critical to get the right balance between testosterone and estrogen. And so, you know, if you raise testosterone, but ignore estrogen, your estrogen levels will likely rise, and you'll, you're not really help the guy. You've got to, A, typically raise your testosterone, but also lower.

Their estrogen level or their estrogen load. So DIM is a great tool for that. I'm also using my glutathione and a couple other things that will stimulate the metabolism of estrogen, so guys can clear it out as well. I think guys run into [00:23:00] issues because maybe their diets Because some of the foods that we eat are high estrogenic, like beer is fairly estrogenic.

And if you're not eating a hormone free meat, I think that that's estrogenic. Just in general, I don't think guys pay close enough attention to how much estrogen they're getting. We want to manage that and maintain. what I call a sweet spot of estrogen. So not too low or not too high. And then don't you think that or not guys with their estrogen levels get too low, it really affects their sex drive in a negative way, which is kind of weird, but that's very typical.

Lyn: And don't you think that fish oil and omega threes, if you will, and vitamin D is important for the men as well. 

Jeff: Absolutely. Yeah, vitamin D and testosterone production is huge. Zinc and testosterone production is huge. Boron and testosterone production is huge. So yes, absolutely the proper 

Pam: nutrients. Well, guys, thanks so much.

This has been a very interesting conversation about a subject, hormone imbalance in men, that [00:24:00] quite frankly is largely ignored. And something that you guys had also said too, you have your men's center. They're at the Happy Hormone Cottage, but there's still a lot of education that needs to go out there for men because they do, they, they too are also silently suffering.

And I think we need to do more to help that. Thank you, Lyn. Thank you, Jeff, for taking the time to talk about such an important topic. One of the things I do want to say in closing is that hormone changes are all a natural part of aging and no one has immunity from life changes. So just like women, hormone changes affect men physically and emotionally.

So all of you men out there who are experiencing the natural aging process and you're not quite feeling yourself, there is an answer and there is help. So please contact Happy Hormone Cottage. And start the process of looking and feeling your best. Contact Happy Hormone Cottage at 513 444 6343 or [00:25:00] go to happyhormonecottage.com. There is a special section when you go on that website for men. And if you kind of scroll down to the bottom, you'll see men's health and click on that. It's very informative. It's also got a great background on what Jeff had talked about the doctor that's attached to this. It's just, it's full of information and it's a wonderful, wonderful start.

So please everyone check out our other podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to like them and to follow us and remember, make the rest of your life, the best of your life.