S2E8 - Journey on the Silk Road: Xinjiang and the Uyghurs

Stand at a crossroads where empires once bartered horses for silk and you’ll feel why Xinjiang refuses to fade into the background. We step off the plane in Urumqi expecting a remote outpost and find a modern city with Russian hues, lively nights, and the constant thrum of armored patrols. Then we cross the Tianshan and land in Kashgar, a world that looks and sounds Central Asian—mosques, bazaars, and Uyghur on every sign—shadowed by fresh crackdowns and a palpable edge.

We dig into what makes this region different: Uyghur culture rooted in Turkic language and Islam, a history defined by corridors not capitals, and a pattern where geography becomes destiny. The timeline matters. From township unrest in the 1990s to the 2009 Urumqi riots and later attacks beyond the region, public fear hardened and the state moved from leniency to total control. That shift produced the headlines—surveillance, detention, re-education—but also daily paradoxes: safety rising for some while dignity erodes for others, hospitality and nightlife humming beneath watchful eyes. The city feels safe, the food sings, the music carries, and yet the rifles never quite leave the frame.

We also trace the economic undercurrent. When growth wobbles, people talk less about ideals and more about survival; gray markets don’t vanish, they reorganize. That old Silk Road lesson still applies: corridors create wealth, wealth draws managers, and even the trades society claims to reject find rules, ledgers, and gatekeepers. The result is a Xinjiang that is beautiful and uncomfortable at once—alive with culture, marked by control, and impossible to understand through slogans alone.

If this journey challenges your assumptions, share it with a friend, subscribe for the season finale, and leave a review with one question you’re still wrestling with.

Please contact me at theunclewong@gmail.com

Transcript

Setting The Scene: Xinjiang

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yo, what's up? Welcome back to Asian Uncle. I'm your host, Uncle Wong. So today I want to take you somewhere that stayed with me a long time after I left. And this is our final destination on the Silk Road. To me, it was perhaps the most memorable and the most worth mentioning. And that place is called Xingjiang. I've been to a lot of places in China, let me tell you. Pretty much I would comfortably and confidently say that I've been to almost everywhere in China. And only Xinjiang felt very different. And it has a love-hate relation with the rest of China, which I will get into next. But this place, it just felt foreign. Even though it's officially part of China, like once you land, once you're in this city, nothing of it feels Chinese at all. The air is different, the architecture is different, their facial features are different too. The rhythm of the streets are different. Well, I soon realized that the reason for this is because they are foreign. It feels closer to Central Asia, like countries like the Stans. So if you hear of Central Asia, think about all the countries that end with S T A N, right? For instance, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, right, Tajikistan. These are the some of the some of the countries within Central Asia that they look a lot alike, almost Eastern European. And its people, they weren't Han Chinese either. They don't look like me. They were called Uyghurs. Another quote-unquote minority group of China. And as a kid, I was always mesmerized with the Xinjiang because I read in a lot of those Kong Fu comics as a kid. Because before it was called Xinjiang, Chinese records, they called it Xi Yu, a very unique name in Chinese. It just means western regions, but that name itself made it exotic. As the name suggests, Western region, you're not the center. You're always on the edge, the frontier, the place beyond. And Xinjiang itself literally means in Chinese new land. A name given to it during the Qing dynasty. Although it was named New Land, this land was anything but new. It was actually ancient. And the Uyghurs, they're not Han, like I said before. They made them more Turkish. Mongols, Tibetans, Persian traders, Islamic scholars, nomads, merchants, this place was never unified in history. Because it was never meant to be. It was always at the center of confrontation. Geographically, Xinjiang mattered too much. It sat on the only real land bridge between east and west. So if you wanted silk going west and horses coming east, you had to pass through here. That's why Xinjiang never knew peace. Empires don't fight over empty land. They fight over corridors. And coincidentally, our last episode talked about the Hexi or the He Xi Corridor, which is exactly what we're referring to. And if you missed that episode, highly suggest you tune back. But during the Han Dynasty, Emperor Wu sent an envoy named Zhangtian, that loser, right, west to the Ho Xi corridor. He didn't conquer anything, like we mentioned in the episode. He came back with knowledge, maps, crops like grapes, alfalfa, better horses, and most importantly, information about quote unquote the enemy and the trade route. So that journey laid the foundation for what we call now the Silk Road. But here's the problem with the Silk Road. Everyone wants it. Which means Xinjiang was like a beautiful lady out in the open, never left alone. By the Han Chinese, by nomadic emperors, by Islamic, um, by Islamic factions, by Mongols, Qing rulers, and later by modern nation states. They needed to control the corridor or they could lose influence. So that pressure never went away. It just changed uniforms. So if you guys pay attention to news on that side of the world, you'll know that the Uyghurs and the Chinese have a humanitarian issue going on. Where supposedly these Uyghurs are being sent to what Americans or Europeans call concentration camps. In reality, they're called re-education camps in China to stop whatever violence or uprising is going on. That's the gist of the story. Of course, we're going to go into much more detail soon. But the reason why I mentioned that is because I have a very neutral stand on this topic. I'm not pro for anyone. Why? Because I've seen a lot with my own eyes of both cultures, policies, good and bad. But I bring up one problem. Because at the time I found it very strange how the West, like Europeans, Americans, how they instinctively dislike Muslim and the Chinese, but yet they found a way or need to stand up for Chinese Muslims. Isn't that ironic? But let's talk about the Uyghur culture before we even attempt to judge. First and foremost, like I mentioned before, the Uyghurs are not Chinese Han. We don't look alike, right? Because they are of Turkish descent. The language is closer to Turkish than Mandarin. Like I mentioned before, they're Islam. And there's not many Islam minority groups in China. Primarily the Uyghurs, the Hui, the predominant groups, and then other small subgroups that just mimic the areas that they're from. Okay, for instance, the Kazakhs, the Kurds, right, the Tajiks, they're pretty much from Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, etc., etc. So the majority is made up of the Uyghurs, largest minority group of Muslims, and then the second largest would be the Hue, and they're both concentrated in the Xinjiang territory. And their everyday culture resembles more of Central Asia than they do Eastern Asia. In other words, politically, they became part of China, but culturally they never assimilated into the Han. And so that tension between the two ethnicities didn't suddenly appear in the 2000s. It went quiet at times, but it never disappeared. And this part's important because it's really discussed, honestly. For instance, in 1990, there was a township uprising near Kashgar, which is the south of Xinjiang. Our militants attacked police and government buildings. It was a small uprising, but it shocked Beijing. Because this wasn't just unrest, like people were starving, or some sort of uh uh like a bad case that pissed somebody off. No, because this looked ideological. In 1997, protest happened again and it turned violent. Bombings followed in other cities, including Ulumuchi. So this was no longer just simple unrest. Then came 2009, the Ulumuchi riots, which is the capital city of Xinjiang. Rumors spread about Uyghur workers killed in a factory fight in southern China. And because of that, mobs poured onto the streets, cars burned, people were beaten. Nearly 200 people officially died. Most of them were Han Chinese civilians. The city was locked down, internet cut, phones cut. For many Chinese citizens, that was the moment sympathy vanished. It was between 2013 and 2014, attacks spread beyond Xinjiang. Okay, knife attacks, bombings. People were getting stabbed with HIV needles. Okay, the Qenming railway system attack killed 31 people. That was far from Xinjiang. And this crossed the line. So from the government's perspective, Xinjiang's instability was not local. It became national. That's the context that most people ignore. According to my own experience in the early 2000s, the government did try leniency, integration. Therefore, they allowed, for instance, Uaver street vendors to operate without permits everywhere. It created equal opportunity for them, at least. And so they flooded the busy streets of Beijing, Shanghai, where I lived. They were all over the place, selling their goods, selling their culture, selling their food, which was fine. But we soon found out that there was some sort of rift in our culture. For instance, Uyghur vendors, they operate by their own rules. Meaning bargaining was fine. Okay, but once you agreed, okay, so let's say I'm selling like a like a Xinjiang knife and you're like a hundred bucks, and I'm like, okay, fine, I'll give it to you. Once that was agreed upon, you had to buy. Then he walked away. He was surrounded immediately by the vendors, and the police did nothing. He ended up paying. He didn't get stabbed, but he ended up paying. Because at the time, enforcement was sensitive. China just opened up to the world. Businesses just started flowing in. We wanted to show more respect, more humility, I guess, and more acceptance for the minority groups. So therefore, most of the Chinese population knew that ethnic issues were hands-off. Kind of like the LGBTQ issue here in America now. And so something else Xinjiang people were known for, the Uyghurs that came into the cities. It was pickpocketing. They're very good at it. So pickpocketing became very common. I was pickpocketed. My wife was pickpocketed. Right outside our apartment complex, too. Then came the fear. A random attack. Somebody walked by, took a dirty needle, and stabbed her in the arm with it, and walked off. Rumors of it being infected with HIV created panic. I don't know what happened to her afterwards. We were not allowed to speak of it. And later came knife attacks. Public tolerance collapsed. So when people argue that the Chinese are being very um inhumane to the Uyghurs, yes, I do agree to a certain context. But also most people have not even seen a Uyghur before, or most people have not even been in that process where the government was lenient, but public trust broke apart. You only see the ending, but you never saw what happened in between. And I experienced it. And that's why I remained neutral on this topic of what's going on. Because you have to understand, it's easy for us here in America. We can deport people. But the state faces a question. What do you do when citizens become suspects? When the entire kind of culture is under suspicion. And Uyghurs are Chinese citizens. Therefore, China chose total control, surveillance, detention, re-education, zero tolerance. They decided they wouldn't let even one extremist slip through. And that's why Xinjiang feels the way it is today. So that's why they're making the news. Because it's definitely not what I expected. Despite all that, life still goes on. When I arrived in Xinjiang, it was for my MBA reunion. These parties kind of get crazy. So I flew into Ulumuchi, the capital of Xinjiang. I honestly thought my pre-impression of it was more rural and a lot of lamb, I guess. I don't know where that came from. Maybe because of the lamb screws that they used to put out in front of my apartments. But I was wrong. Because instead, I was met with a modern city, clean streets, colorful buildings that, by the way, resembled Russian influence. People dressed well, there were cafes, hotels. Me and my buddy from Taiwan, we stayed in a five-star hotel, very nice service, big rooms, beautiful amenities. But then the security hit immediately. When we're walking outside, I saw two rows, a group of six, three, uh, three each row, of armed police. Automatic weapons. That's not widely seen. You don't seem you don't so let me break this down first. Let me the police in China don't carry guns. Only the armed police do. You would rarely see them unless something is awfully wrong. So to see six of them just patrolling the streets with full armor, plates, and automatic rifles, that was pretty scary. Not only do you not see this in China, you you don't see this in Tibet either. Or at least not as much as you see in Xinjiang. But let me tell you, this was not for show. This was for memory enforcement. To make sure that these crazy assaults or terrorist attacks don't happen on local soil. One of our NBA classmates, she owns a very large business there. I believe it was a food processing company. So she took us on a quick tour of her facilities and she arranged two big buses to take us around Xinjiang to visit. Xinjiang, honestly, it's just like two worlds. They're separated by the Tiansen Mountains, which when you cross, it literally feels like crossing the border. Because in northern Xinjiang, we were at, capital city, Ulumuchi, the atmosphere felt calmer, it was more mixed, more urban. But southern Xinjiang tends to be more tense, conservative, sort of like our North and Southern America, right? But not as I think there it's more on the more on a very more on a drastic scale. We were set to visit Kashgar. When we drove south, the entire feeling changed again. This was once the most important silk road cities in the world. And culturally, there was nothing Chinese about it. I could not see any Chinese influence there, except for the armed police. There were mosques, halal food, Uyghur languages spoken everywhere. You did not hear Chinese. Our guide also mentioned that we're not allowed to stay here overnight because apparently a recent self-emolation protest happened, meaning somebody burned themselves in public. So the government was furious, and there is a uh martial law that is currently being enforced. We probably went at a bad time because tourism felt more, of course, observation. That's my main impression. I just saw so much more armed police than would than it was necessary. But don't get me wrong. One, I felt very safe, and two, I had a blast. When we went back to Ulumuchi, we had a great dinner, a lot of drinks. The next day we played golf with full service. And let me tell you what golf with full service means for my golfing fans out there. You know, you golf in America, you gotta do everything yourself, right? Carry the clubs. You'd be lucky to get a cart, you're gonna pay an extra money for a cart, right? But in China or most of Asia, when you're golfing, you're provided with everything. And what I mean by everything is you have a caddy that drives your cart, picks your clubs, aims your balls, tells you where to hit. You pretty much is there to just swing your club. You don't clean nothing, you don't do anything, you just chill, drink, and do business. That's the culture of golf in Asia. It's more used for business than it is for leisure. Just a quick backdrop story. But uh yeah, we had fun golfing. And the night, uh, the streets were filled with food and vendors. A lot of noise everywhere. It was it was great. Now, here's where the uh explicit part comes in. So if you want to skip this, it's fine. I'll see you next episode. But if you want to stay, be prepared because what you're about to hear is uh kind of nasty, even in my standards. So as we were drinking the night away, singing and having fun, I suddenly smell something. Kind of like a uh like a like it wasn't like a strong stinging scent, it was more like a dull, off-guard curry armpit stench. And I soon realized it came from the girl that I was with, that beautiful, nice Uyghur lady in red. I was warned about this before, um, culturally, because of the way they eat. They eat a lot of uh lamb, curry, and stuff, very strong senses, so they're they tend to give off a stronger body odor, which is what I was warned. I'm just Sharing that with you. If you don't want to hear it, please skip to the next episode. But for those willing to uh to stand by, what happened next was even crazier. Because the night ended, I went home, nothing happened. But my buddy, the one that called the twins, he brought those two back. And of course, coming from a more conservative Chinese culture, we don't boast or ask questions about these things. Instead, the next day, my buddy came up to me. And he looked off. He leaned into me and said, Yo, bro, what the fuck was that smell? And that just killed me because I knew exactly what he was talking about. And the fact that I only danced with the lady and had that whiff of smell versus the fact that he brought them back for sex, apparently. And he experienced something that no man should experience. One, he didn't, nothing happened. At least he said, because as soon as he got in, of course he was drunk and he smelled something. It was fuming. So he told the ladies to go shower. And he said even after the shower, it still smelled bad. So he just paid and kicked them out. That kind of haunted him. It's just uh sorry, it was just a sideline story. I just thought it'd be interesting, but uh yeah, it's a different type of culture if you were there. And we had a great time. Xinjiang gives you contradictions like that. You know, beauty and discomfort, all in the same breath. Where Xinjiang is both beautiful and violent, um, it has a strong heritage system, and yet they're also afraid of assimilating into a different culture. So that's basically my first impressions of Xinjiang. And I called a buddy recently who's still living there. I asked him how things are, had a quick chat with them. He laughed. He said uh things hasn't changed much, except the economy is getting worse. But then again, that's most of China right now. But whenever economy starts to wobble, something interesting happens. We were discussing this too, because obviously we're classmates and uh we we didn't get an MBA for no reason. Because when the economy starts to wobble, people start talking about ideology more. Stop talking about history. They start referencing or talking about survival. And that's when certain industries don't disappear. They reorganize, they formalize, and they become visible. Talking about a faltering economy brought up a question that leads to the finale of season two. And that is the Silk Road brought riches. But why is it that in every civilization, when money tightens, when cities grow too fast, and when men outnumber families, certain businesses don't die. They move indoors, they get rules, they get ledgers, and sometimes they even get state approval. This question is what got me in trouble a couple years ago, and that's where we're gonna go next, the finale of the season. Because in this finale, we're gonna talk about one business in history. Because in this finale, we're talking about the one business history pretends to hate, but always finds a way to manage. Thank you again for all your love and support. That's all the time we have for today. Enjoy the rest of your week, and I'll see you next time. Peace.