S3E2: Paul's Story - When Nobody's Home - Pt 1/5

Nobody becomes a headline overnight. The turning point is usually quieter: a kid coming home to an empty apartment, parents working double shifts, a divorce that splits the family, and a neighborhood where fighting feels like basic self-defense. We start in Seoul and land in Flushing, Queens, following an Asian American immigrant story that is less about excuses and more about conditions.

We talk candidly about what it’s like to grow up with minimal supervision, what domestic conflict and poverty pressure do to a child’s sense of safety, and how youth homelessness can happen in plain sight. When he gets thrown out around age twelve, survival becomes the only plan, and the “help” that shows up comes with strings attached. From there, we map the step-by-step reality of gang recruitment in 1990s New York: who introduces you, how you get vetted, why younger kids are targeted, and how small errands turn into dirty work.

We also get into Chinatown specifics, including packed apartments, extortion as a form of “support,” the initiation ritual that binds loyalty, and early roles like street watching and reporting up the chain. Then the conversation turns to the fear underneath it all: suspicion, talk of wires, and why consequences can be extreme when there are no cameras and no accountability.

If you’re interested in Queens history, Chinatown street culture, Asian American identity, youth violence prevention, or how gangs recruit vulnerable kids, this story gives you a grounded look at the pathway before the crime. Subscribe for the next part, share this with someone who still thinks it’s only about “bad choices,” and leave a review with your takeaway: where would you intervene if you could go back?

Please contact me at theunclewong@gmail.com

Transcript

Conditions, Not Excuses

SPEAKER_02 0:32

This isn't a story about excuses. It's a story about conditions. This is Asian Uncle. And this is how I began. Hey bro. So you came straight to Queens with both your parents?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Uh so I was born in Seoul Korea. I came here when I was around, I guess, like two years old. Um back in 1992. I mean uh 82, sorry. Um and then uh we moved to Queens, blushing.

Immigration And Early Family Breakup

SPEAKER_02 1:10

And so at that age, did you have any sense of why your family left Korea? Or is that something you only understood later?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Uh yeah, I mean, I, you know, you're young, you know, you know, when your parents immigrate, you know, they they want to go to a place where they can, I guess, you know, find a better life for themselves. Um you know, you know, you know the whole immigrant story.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know what you mean. You and I are close in age. What do you remember about your parents back then?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Um, so they got divorced fairly early. Um, and so I lived with my father in Queens, and my mother lived uh in upstate New York.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

How old were you when that happened?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Uh I was like probably like seven or eight around there when they when they divorced. So they divorced pretty early.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

What changed for you specifically after the divorce?

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Uh I mean, you know, it definitely had an effect where you know a single father was raising me, uh, he was never in the house, basically.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

What did life look like for your parents after that?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Well, my mother remarried. Um my father, he you know, went through several relationships, I guess, or whatever. I used to see a lot of different um, you know, women in his life.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Uh, my mother, she remarried, um, you know, with and my sister lived upstate with them.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

I remember you do have siblings. Can you talk about them a bit?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

I have I have uh older sister um who's a year older than me. Right. But I also have a younger uh a younger sister who is I think 14

Divorce, Absence, And Growing Up Unsupervised

SPEAKER_00 3:10

years younger than me with my stepfather.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Uh, okay. Okay, so with your stepfather.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Growing up, was there a lot of conflict at home?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

They definitely fought a lot. Uh, you know, you know, my father was uh you know, somewhat abusive to my mother, you know, and I definitely knew that he you know slept around, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, I understand.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And you know, at that time, they, you know, parents were never like really in the home, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, yeah. Well, what kind of work were your parents doing at the time?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Um, my mom, she did on different, a lot of different jobs. She worked at a uh like uh, you know, like those uh nail salons, hair salons, whatever. Uh and then, you know, she was basically once she remarried, she was uh definitely just uh just a housewife. Uh now she owns a um what do you call it? Um what do you call that? The um the laundromats?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh yeah, dry cleaners, bro.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Dry cleaners, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she does dry cleaner.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

How typical. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah. Uh my father, he did a lot of different jobs as well. Right. Um, you know, he sold cars. Uh he worked at car dealerships, he's doing hair, he's selling wigs now.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

But did they come to the US legally?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Well, at that time, yeah, they they definitely came here legally, yeah. They did.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like uh, you know, they didn't use like snake heads to get here or anything.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Right. So so you lived in flushing at first with your family until they split up and you lifted your dad. Uh where did you live with your dad again?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Uh in flushing.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Okay, you lived with that in flushing. You were in flushing, like like around Wood Street, like like so half.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Uh one 149th in northern right there. Okay, oh, okay, right there.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

So what was school like or just growing up there in general?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

No, I mean at that time, um I mean when you're young, you just you don't really know it, you don't know anything, right? You don't really know what a family is supposed to look like. You're just used to what you're used to, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, you know, you miss your mother, you miss you know, your other family. Um, and it's not like I had you know didn't see them at all, you know. I mean, I went upstate to go see them and stuff. Um, it's just I just didn't live with them, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

So, Paul, looking back now, how do you see your parents?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

They had good intentions, right? You know, right? It wasn't like they they were like complete screw-ups, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

You know, they came here and of course they had to work, so they were just out all the time. And you know, they thought that you know, just supporting us financially, giving us a roof under our heads, that was like the end all, right? Yeah, they weren't bad parents per se.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

What kind of places were you living in during the 80s?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Oh, yeah. I mean, it was just uh, I mean, the beginning, um, well, you know, not my when you're a baby, you don't really know. Uh, I'm pretty sure, no, actually, when I first moved here, I think that they lived in somewhere else in Queens, like Elmher's or something. But eventually, I think that we moved to Flushing, if I remember correctly, what they told me.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

It was like the rental migration, like the immigration.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like we lived with like two families, I think, in the beginning. Right, okay. And like uh, you know, like an apartment. Right. Um, and then, you know, and then uh when I lived with my father uh for a bit, um, I lived in a one-bedroom apartment. So basically he lived, you know, he slept in the bedroom. Uh I slept out in the um living room.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Right. Um, yeah, I mean So your sister stayed with your mom.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

And my sister stayed with uh my mom, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Was there anything from childhood that stayed with you? Something that really shook you? What what he did to maybe your mom or any like anything that led up to you know, led up to divorce that really bothered you or kind of kind of gave you like, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Well, I remember I remember one time, you know, I saw, I mean, you know, we we used to get hit as a kid, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, you know, it was like a lot of you know, like, you know, punishment, you know what I'm saying? Like they don't like he doesn't like something I did, you know. I'm you know I'm gonna get hit. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Uh but he also did that to my mom. You know, I remember, you know, just seeing like black and blue on her, like, you know, sometimes, you know, and I basically know like what it was, you know what I mean. You're not stupid, you know what I mean? Um, so yeah, I mean you know, there were times, I mean he he just wouldn't come home, you know. You know, he would come once in a while, and then like you won't see him like for a stretch.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

You know, things like that. Yeah.

unknown 8:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

But then you know, it's always like, oh, he's on a business trip or he's at work or you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

But nothing beyond that.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

There was nothing like ever like that was just so horrible, you know what I mean? We just didn't have money, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

And because, you know, we didn't and because we didn't have money, you know, the parents were never at home to really like make sure, like, you know, like we came home and did our homework, or you know, that we were going to school, or you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah, to even give a shit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were just like, oh, well, you know, you know English, so you gotta just make your way.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

How was school for you between 7 and 12?

SPEAKER_00 8:59

The early, like, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. It was regular kiss stuff, you know. Right. You know, you go, you go to parks and go play handball with friends, and you know, I mean, I mean, even at that time, I was like, like I could have went home at like 12 a.m. and it would have been okay, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Because, you know, my father just, you know, he's either driving a cab and you know, he's not home, or he comes home like early in the morning and sleeps all day and then goes to work at night again. So basically, you know, I just had free reign to do whatever I I wanted in a sense, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

But did he care for you though? Like, did he leave money for you to eat?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Uh yeah, I mean, you know, he used to leave money, you know, before I went to school, like, hey, use this for lunch.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Okay, so pretty much that like dark period.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, and then like, you know, he, you know, back then, you know, Korean people they drank a lot, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

And so, you know, he used to come on drunk sometimes, and you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know how that go. Um but yeah, just just your sort of normal Asian immigrant family who came, you know, looking for a better life, you know, and they take jobs, whatever job that they can, you know, they drive cabs, they work at car dealerships, they, you know, so they weren't educated.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Like, like they didn't have high education either.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

No, no, they did. You know, both of my parents went to college. Oh, okay. You know, they both went to college, they you know, they had an education, but they don't know how to speak English too well, so where are they gonna work, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Right, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

You know, they go, you know, they're gonna come live in Asian enclaves, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. You know, Plancha, wherever there's Koreans. Yeah. Because that's where the social network is. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's just the that's just the way that you know, you know, it goes, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Did your dad at least leave you enough to get

Getting Thrown Out At Twelve

SPEAKER_02 11:05

by on?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Well, so basically, um so basically me and my father, we we got into it as I got older, right? We used to buy heads a lot. And I remember this one time he basically threw me out, right? Of the house.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

How old are you?

SPEAKER_00 11:24

I was like 12 or something. Yeah, and so so I got thrown out. Um, and at that time when I got thrown out, is you know, like, where do I go, right? So I went to I used to like sleep on rooftops, you know what I'm saying? Like sleep on rooftops, you know, and like I had to wait until morning until like my friend's parents leaves, and I can just go in and sleep and you know, take a shower, like you know, whatever. Right. Or my friends would come out, sneak out of the house at night, and come come to me at the park and you know, like bring me food and stuff. Like I did that for like maybe like a month and a half. Um month and a half, like two months. Then uh I met, you know, and then you know, it's like you meet you meet people and you know people, and this person introduced you to this person, and so that way, um, you know, at that time, uh they were just they were just recruiting, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 12:28

So why did you in your death fight? Like backtrack like like like what would you guys fight about? Money, your grades, or you're a good student at least? Did you have good grades at that time?

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Uh yeah. Yeah, I mean I wasn't stupid, uh, you know. Uh I mean stupid good grades, dude. But still at that time, um, it was junior high school or something, you know, you know, during that time. Um and you know, when you go to school in flushing during that era, you know, you still, you know, it was that time where like like your click was really, really important, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So, you know, we made our own sort of you know group uh you know in in 189. Um, and we were doing like the same things like the like you know, the older guys were doing, you know, I mean, we used to, you know, get into fights, we used to go drink, you know. I'm talking about like 12, 13 years old, you know?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Oh, yes, junior high school.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Um yeah, exactly. And so, you know, there's always like groups that reign over the school, or people that reign over the school and each school, even in junior high school, you know what I mean? So, you know, at that time, you know, I made a name for myself. You know, I'm you know, I'm always fighting, I'm always you know, doing something, right? Right, right. Um and so yeah, there was a couple of times where I got into you know trouble at school. You know, mainly, you know, like like doing like gambling or you know, something or other, or just fighting outside in the schoolyard, or you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

So this was so this was even before you you you you were in the middle of the state.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

This was before, yeah, yeah, I joined uh Ghost Shadows.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

So you think it prompted you more like mentally because you were just a violent or like a like ADD kid, or was it because of your family and that nobody really gave a damn when you came home?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

You think we'll have more well yeah, that's that's definitely, you know, I definitely didn't have a stable childhood at that time. There was no sort of like stability in my life. Um but also it's the culture of where I live too, right? You know, you know, even even in junior high school, like you could walk down the block and somebody is gonna either try to rob you or try to you know ask you if you hang out, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yeah. Did you get mugged a lot?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Me? I I never my I never got mugged myself, no. No. Um but then you will see, you know what I'm saying? You will see who's who, you know, who's doing what. You know? Um I just, you know, you know, my case was like, you know, I'm never gonna let anybody, you know, run over me. You know what I mean? Right, right. Um yeah, so so it's sort of like, you know, I'd rather, you know, I'd rather be the one, you know, I mean, like I never I never robbed like school kids, you know what I'm saying?

The Path Into Ghost Shadows

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Like, like there was no time where I just like ran up on like a kid who's going to school and like yo, run your shit. Like I never did that. Right. But yeah, but also at the same time, like, I'm not gonna let anybody do what I said to me. You know, that's that was like my mentality. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

And at that point, were you already spending time in Chinatown?

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Well, this was uh yeah, so it was 93 actually when I when I got fully initiated into Go Shadow. Um so in the beginning, it was more like, hey, this kid needs some help, right? Um, you know, he doesn't have anywhere to go, whatever. You know, it was actually one of my friends' uh older sister who used to hang out with Gold Shadows. Okay. So it was this girl named Judy. Um, she's like, hey, you know, I have some you know, friends, you know, they live in Chinatown, you know, they could probably help you, right? So I met them. Um, and at that time, you know, I wasn't like in in Ghost Shadows at that time when I first, you know, got there. Basically, they were like, cool, you can stay with us, but you gotta, you know, you know, we gotta, we have to vet you, right? We have to see like, you know, if you were like worth it, right? And so, and so cool. So when I ran away, you know, they they obviously, you know, some of them like knew who I was because of what I was doing in my school, right? Because, you know, we had a group back then, um, in in 189. Um, you know, you know, we used to, we used to, we sort of like had a name in like that, that like middle school world, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Like, you know, we used to go to other schools and they used to be like, oh, you know, what you know, what, you know, what's his name? You know, they're you know, they're over here, you know, trying to do something, whatever. And so, you know, even like you know, certain like high school kids, like they knew like who we were, you know? Um, and so yeah, so they knew who I was, but you know, they're not going to just let me into you know their their home.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Um, so at that time, you know, they would give me you know little things to do, you know what I mean? So basically, when you when you get recruited, um you get recruited under somebody, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah, yeah, that I know. That's part of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, so I mean, you know, the vetting process is different for everybody, right? Yeah. But then the thing is this it's only certain level of people who can recruit. It's not just anybody. You know what I mean? You can't just say, Oh, I have kids or I have legs, you know?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

So so you have to move up generations to to recruit kids. Like, you know, there were so many kids, they're like, Yeah, no, I got you know, I got boys under me. But those aren't legit people under you. That's the problem, right? Right. Yeah, so um, so yeah. So the way that I got in was was through that process where I met them first. They're like, cool, we'll help you out, but in return, you gotta do things for us. Right? Um, and so I'm like, all right, well, you know, what do I have to do? You know what I mean? Like, I'm I'm not gonna just freely be like, okay, cool, I'll do whatever you want me to do. You know what I mean? Like, you know, so so here's the tactic, like how some what some people use, right? Some people use a situation to recruit people. Like, let's say that you're about to get jumped and they come and help you. Then they're gonna be like, yo, so if you don't wanna get beat up by them again, then just join us, right? You know, that's like more situational, right? Other times they just, you know, they lure you in with, you know, money, right?

unknown 19:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

So they're like, hey, so yo, you know, just you know, I'll give you, you know, I'll give you a beeper, I'll give you this, you know what I'm saying? Like, yo, don't worry, I'll take care of you, right? You know, like that's that's the that's the whole, you know, if you follow me, you're gonna be making money, and you know, we're just gonna take care of you that way. But just be loyal to us.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And then there's a way where, you know, it's fear basically, you know what I mean? You know, if you don't join us, then you know, you're just gonna get fucked up everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yeah, you're praying, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, so a lot of it is definitely preying on those sort of like you know, situations or like emotions. Right? Um, and they use young kids because you know, if young kids get into trouble, you know, they don't get into as much trouble as the older people, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

And then they basically let all the young kids do all the dirt. Right? Um so for me it was more like yeah, in the beginning, you know, uh, you know, I that you know, I did a lot of dirt that I didn't want to do, but I was in a position where you know I couldn't go home. Um, but I needed money and I needed a place to stay. So, you know, what you know, and at that time, um there were there were gangs everywhere. You know, it's it's flushing, Chinatown, Brooklyn, you name it, you know, Elmhurst, wherever, there's groups everywhere that you go. Right? Um, and I I definitely did have a lot of beef with different groups, you know, because I was you know, I was out there, you know, fighting kids, you know? Um, so yeah, that's that's how it sort of began in the beginning. Uh I didn't have a place to go. Um and they and they, you know, welcomed me in. So not uh not as a group, okay, but doing little things in the beginning, like you know, oh go collect this.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Or you know, go like I said, remember this, uh remember the tire incident?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, there, you know, I was at um I was at Winnie's bar, uh, and they're like, yo. You gotta go on Canal Street. There's a bus over there. I want you to go and pop pop their tires.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

How many tires you pop?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Uh I popped two.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Were you scared? Uh I mean. Dude, you were 12, man. Dude, I would like when I was 12, like I had no hair in my balls, man. I like I can't imagine myself doing something like that when I was 12, you know, going collecting, or you know, like you know, like the kind of the grunt work, right? Especially that young age. Like what was going through your head? Did you care, or was it just like, okay, I got food now?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I mean, at that, at that point, like like fear didn't really factor into it, you know what I'm saying? Because you're so young, you know what I mean?

unknown 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Um, you know, it wasn't fear per se. It was just like, you know, you know, I'm gonna go pop these tires, you know what I mean? It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like, oh shit, I gotta, you know, I gotta do this. Because like like I wish I had more fear back then, you know?

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Because if I did have more fear, I would have been smarter. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, so so yeah, sometimes I think back and I'm like, if only I had a little bit more fear, then I would have been a lot smarter about things that I've done, you

Chinatown Living And The Initiation Ritual

SPEAKER_00 23:20

know?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

So where did you live? So where did you live after you got um like when you like when you ran away? Because you stayed in the because you said before you stayed in, you know, like the like the rooftops and stuff, and afterwards you found it through through Judy and you stayed with them. Where did you stay? Like, how was that like? You sleep on the couch, you know, did you have your own room?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Chinatown. Uh so I lived in Chinatown. Uh I lived on Monroe Street, and the apartment was a one-bedroom apartment with seven people living in there. Seven, eight people. But the good thing is that I had a place to stay, free food, because uh, you know, your groups extort all the restaurants, so I can just order the food and just not pay and just eat, right? So once you're once you're actually like initiated, you know, you know, there's like a every group sort of has like a different ceremony thing that they do, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

You know, you burn the incense, you know what I mean, you know, yeah, to whatever, you know, you know, Guangdong or whatever, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Um go into detail.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

And then you basically that ritual basically is sort of like a way to bind you, right? It sort of binds you to the group because of ceremony, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

What happens at the ceremony? Um can you walk me through like what happens at the ceremony?

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Um, so basically, like where it took the ceremony is basically, you know, you're in front of a shrine, right? You're with like your brothers, um, and then you you know you bow to whatever whatever shrine that you're in front of, and then you you know put the incense there, and then they tell you basically you're a part of this group, um, and there's no like there's no like leaving, you know what I mean? You know, like these are your you know, the people next to you are your brothers. Uh and you know, this is basically forever, you know. This, you know, and and uh, you know, you're supposed to be loyal to your group, you know, you know, basically things like that. You know what I mean? You gotta be loyal. If you're not loyal, there's gonna be consequences, whatever. And and that's it, pretty much. Like, like I don't remember like you know what it was like word for word, you know, but was it in English or basically the gist?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Huh? Was it in English or Chinese?

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Um most of it was in English, but some of it was in Chinese.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Like who held the ceremony? Like it was like like was your dialo that held the ceremony, or was it somebody on top that held the ceremony?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Uh your dialo, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Like did it take place anywhere special? Like did you get blindfolded in? Did you have to drink any chicken blood?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

No, no, nothing like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Nothing like that. No, no. So how many brothers did you have at that time, like in that same group?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Uh there were there were eight of us, eight, nine of us in that group.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Do I know any of them in that group?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

So my generation and GK's generation are the same.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

But GK was in uh Bayard. I was in Mott. What was it if you know anybody in my generation? Do you know like uh like Taewei or Tony?

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Did it go to Dozo?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

No, no, no, no. They're all from either Chinatown or Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Okay. I think I don't know which Tony, but but like but but I'm but I'm Tony Tony too.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

He's have Vietnamese, have Chinese.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

No, no, no. So they're all your generation, all eight of them.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

My generation was all older than me.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Because you were like 13 at the time.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I was I was the youngest in my generation.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Okay, okay. So was GK with you back then? You know, was Ray or you know, Pomzuck or any of them with you back then?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Uh they were all in different different groups.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Okay, okay. So you got okay, so that's why like like it never it was just one street and another street. It was like two kind of exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

So I hung out with Ma Street, different, you know, different head. Um I hung out the only the only same thing about Ma Street and Barry Street, we're all under the same um association.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah, the tongue. Like uh which one was it the hip sync? Oh yeah, tongue, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, exactly. So we were all Ariang, and then you know, like the dragons were all hip sings.

SPEAKER_02 27:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

But yeah, but yeah, when you're 13, you know, it's sort of like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. You know what I mean? Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

So how old were they? Like maybe two, three years older than you? So so maybe like they were like two, three years older than you?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah, some of them were two, three, four.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Okay. Okay. So how did it go afterwards? Like, how is it like because I know how you ended up in high school, how we met, right? It was my freshman year. Were you starting freshman year at that time?

SPEAKER_00 28:31

I think I was a sophomore.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Yeah, so you should have always been a year older than me, right? So, like be so from from the time you joined 13, that's pretty much like you didn't go to school anymore, right? Like junior high school, or did you go to school at the same time when you joined?

SPEAKER_00 28:47

So, what I did was this for for for like a year and a half. I paid a taxi driver, right? You know, you don't want those uh, you know, like illegal cabs. So I paid them to go to my school and pull out my transcripts. Okay. Like act as like you're my father, pull out my transcripts. I put my transcripts into a school in um Mary Bertram.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Mary Bertram?

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Like, yeah, so Mary Bertram is a school in the city downtown near Chinatown.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Okay, okay, okay, okay. Virginia High School.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

No, no, no, no. Uh so did you graduate high school, I I finished, right? Okay. By the time I was 13, I was in in high school.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Okay. Yeah. So so from there you went to to to Dr. Mary Burchum school nearby for maybe a year and then you transferred to Dozo with me? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay, so we so when we met, you were new too to Dozo?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Uh yeah, pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Okay. So from the time we met up until uh up until you

Street Watchers, Dirty Work, And Fear

SPEAKER_02 30:00

like that day of the initiation, like what did you do for a living? Like, so you never went home afterwards, you just kind of made a living off there. Like, what would the stuff that you'd be doing? Like, what was some of the things?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

So basically, when you're first a new recruit, you're uh you're called a street watcher, right? You could say basically your job is to watch the street and report back to your Dalo, right? So you're on the street like every day. Something goes on in the street, you gotta let your Dalo know. Your Dala who comes, then you follow him wherever he goes, right? Um, that's how you start out. You start out, everybody starts out as like a street watcher. Um you're basically just hanging out just on the street, you know, looking out for certain things, right? Like, like, you know, they give you little tasks, you know, like hey, if you see back then, you know, like when when all like the you know the food they were coming over. So they used to tell us, hey, you see any, you know, um, you know, they they used a really um derogatory term against like the future back then. You could do it.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

You know, they called it you know fuck ta'o, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, yeah, fuck ta'o. So so basically they're like, yo, if you see them on the phone, kick them off. And so we did things like that. If you see anybody that's not supposed to be on the street, give us a call, right? You know, and then from there, you know, they they sort of like graduate you into like other things, right? So they see how you are first, right? You know, if you're just just hanging out just to hang out, you know, they'll just leave you at that spot, right? But then, you know, if they see like other things in you, they gradually like promote you. Um next thing is like you're watching either like a gambling house or like um a taboon or or or like a kaital, right? A what? Kaital.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Like a whorehouse.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Yeah, yeah. So they call it chicken houses, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, so yeah, you use next, you know, basically watching it, you know, you're looking at the video camera, buzzing people in, right? Making sure nobody on the floor is, you know, like acting up.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Right. So so so a couple questions leading up to that. Like, because like when I was there, like I remember when I got kicked out of my house, like I went to Chinatown to look for LLT. Uh no, not not LLT, LT, Little Tony. I don't know if you know him from Bayard.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Which, okay, so there's two LTs, right? Yeah. There's LT, who's Vietnamese, right? He used to be one of the dialos for FD.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

No, not him.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

And then there's LLT, who was Baird.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Okay, that LLT then, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

The small Yeah, yeah, so LLT. You're talking about Korean LLT.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the really small dude.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Little little Tony, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Yeah, so he wouldn't. So so when I asked him, like, because I was a street watcher, right? And I didn't know anything, because they just kind of that kind of took me there a little bit, right? But that's already when like it was already pretty much gone, right? And a lot of the stuff was already gone when I, you know, when I went in. But there was still some things lingering down. So that day when I asked him, like, he actually searched me to see if I was wired before he had me, like, you know, before he hooked me up, before he even hooked me up with any jobs. So that's normal, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah, of course. I mean. I mean, but at that, I mean, like, how old how old were you at that time?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

I was already in high school. I was already freshman, yeah. I was freshman already.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Oh, then they just did it just to act up, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Because, you know, you're you're you're like a high school kid, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Like if you're first coming out, like they know who's who already. You know what I mean? They they've been watching whoever they want to recruit. It's not like, you know, just like, oh, that's a random person, I'm just gonna bring in him and just like put him to work. It's like, you know, they're already they're they're they're already gonna vet you before they do anything else. Yeah. Right? So, I mean they just did that as a show of like, hey, so we're gonna check you so you know that if you ever do something like that, don't.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

So it was like a more like a show of like, you know, like like like we know that it might be the case that somebody might wire, you know, wear, you know, wear a wire. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

What would have happened?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Just for like a precautionary thing. I mean, they they know that you're not gonna be wearing a wire, especially at your age, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah when you're when you're that young, you can't the the police aren't even gonna wire you at that time.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Yeah. Like what would they like what would what happened if they catch me with a wire?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Back then, yeah. Uh

What Happens If You Get Wired

SPEAKER_00 35:20

I mean, back then they're liable to do anything. Um there's no CCTVs, there's basically nothing, right? People disappear sometimes. Uh so I have a friend. Um he was like my big brother, um, but he was part of a different group. He was a BTK. Um, but you know, I really had a love for him, though. You know what I'm saying? I really had a lot of love for this guy. We were we were in different groups, but I still had friends in different groups at that time, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, yeah, of course. All the time.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Um they basically tied him up and burned down his store with him in it.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Why?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Uh something happened. Um, I'm not sure exactly what the details are.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

But yeah, that's what they did.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Oh shit.

unknown 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Alright, so that's where we're gonna stop for today. And look, I know Marthe like not much has happened yet. We're still in Queens. We're still in a one-bedroom apartment. Nothing dramatic. No gangs, no violence, none of that. Yeah. But I think that's actually the point. The story doesn't start with a bad decision. It starts with just nobody home. Okay, with who was behind and no one takes it. Anyway,