[00:00:28] Jay: Hi everyone. Welcome to The First Customer Podcast, the first of 2025, for me.today I am lucky enough to be joined by Christian Espinosa. He is the founder and CEO of Blue Goat Cyber.

What's up man? How are you?

[00:00:40] Christian: Doing good. I've been, pretty busy this morning. I'm happy that I'm the first recording of 2025.

[00:00:45] Jay: You sure are. You get to lead it 

[00:00:47] Christian: I feel honored. That's awesome.

[00:00:49] Jay: That also means you'll have to deal with a little me, you know, rust, that I'm shaking off along the way, but you know, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out together. alright, so where'd you grow up, man? And did that have any impact on you being an entrepreneur leader in life?

[00:01:00] Christian: yeah, I grew up, at first in California, in Riverside, California. I moved from there at 12 years old to a small town in Arkansas, of 800 people. So it's quite a cult, quite a bit of culture shock.my childhood was very chaotic. My mother was addicted to pain meds and wrecked the cars all the time, always in jail.

And, we were extremely poor, so I wasn't really fostered into like an entrepreneur path. I didn't have safety, stability, or security, so I craved that I didn't have it. And I joined the military, and I got that there. And then later it took me a while to unravel that. I really don't value safety, stability, and security that much. So many many years later, I finally became an entrepreneur.

[00:01:39] Jay: Okay. Well, thank you for your service. What, branch did you serve in?

[00:01:42] Christian: I was in the Air Force.

[00:01:43] Jay: Beautiful. Love it. one of my really good friends is a Air Force, cybersecurity veteran himself. So I have to hook you guys up, connect you as, brothers at some point.

All right. So what was the first company you start?

I saw something about Alpine security along the way. was that kind of the first real kind of, you know, multiple other people to join the company, kind of, experience for you?

[00:02:03] Christian: Alpine Security was the first company I started. I did solopreneur work for about, or freelance work for about six years and got bored with that. So then I thought, else can I grow? I can grow by starting a company, hiring people, and contributing to society. So that's Alpine Security was my first real company.

I started in 2014 and sold it in 2020.

[00:02:22] Jay: You got bored. That was the first time I've ever heard anybody say that. Over 200 episodes you got bored of doing freelancing, so you decided to start a company. Talk to me a little bit about that. Right, because like most people I talk to are trying to figure out how to get out of the nine to five, into this freelancing and then eventually start a business and like kind of following that path, yours.

Maybe seemed a little more calculated. what made you bored about freelancing? Like what did you kind of crave that you weren't getting? as maybe as a business owner from freelancing?

[00:02:55] Christian: I wasn't getting the personal growth. I felt like it became status quo. I was making a lot of money, taking a couple months off a year traveling the world, teaching cybersecurity, doing white hat hacking, like hacking the aircraft and things. I just got bored with it. I thought, man, I'm kind of like at a ceiling here.

I'm not growing. so I thought if I people, try to scale a business, it will force me to. Get through the ceiling that I felt I was at because I get, if I'm feel like I'm doing the same thing, I feel like after a while, I, it's a rut. I want to like, go to the next level. It's like thing, I can't let go.

I'm always trying to get to the next level. so I would stay at that level long enough where I'm like, okay, it's time to step up to the next level, which is, you know, building a business and hiring people and scaling it.

I love that. I always say that if you're comfortable somewhere, you're, you've probably been there too long. Right? And it feels like kind of a similar, similar mantra. Maybe bored is equals comfortable to me.

[00:03:52] Jay: Right? Sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That you weren't being challenged, right? I mean, that, I think that's kind of what it comes down to is like you're just, you get in the motions and you're like, I could be doing more than I'm doing and I'm not.

so how did you do it? I mean, how did you go from, you know, freelancing, just doing kind of day to day nine, not nine to five, but just kind of doing contract work and like what was the actual first step for you to go from freelancer guy to business owner and you know, company owner?

[00:04:17] Christian: The actual first step was to basically, you know, start the company on paperwork. The new company, Alpine Security is what it was called. And then I converted my freelance clients to under that company. So now they were under Alpine security. They weren't just contracted to me directly with my social, it was with the company, the EIN. then I started hiring people convincing the client that had worked with me. You know, introducing the new team member on that and then started scaling from there.

[00:04:46] Jay: That's a beautiful like note because not a lot of people talk about that. Like that part is. Exciting and terrifying and like very mentally taxing to like convince somebody that has trusted you with whatever you're doing to be like, Hey, I know you trust me, but I trust this guy, so you should trust this guy with all the stuff that you trusted me with.

And oh, by the way, you should still pay me for it, even though this is the guy doing the work. So, I mean, did you find it to be a little. you know, just kind of a mindset shift. I mean, what, talk me through, like what were the conversations with your clients, those.

[00:05:26] Christian: Yeah, it was very challenging. Like you said, I used to do teaching all over the world, like the classes. and I basically, I. The client would ask me, are you available this week? I said, well, I'm not available, but I have a team now and I have this guy that is just as good as me. So that would be the conversation.

They'd be like, well, we don't know that guy. We want you. So I had to like really do a lot of selling to convince him to take a chance on somebody new. 'cause they were already, you know, intimately familiar with me. In my, quality of work. then I had the, all this going through my head like, ho, holy crap, what if this person I'm putting on this contract, messes it up?

And then they never come back to me again 'cause it's my word on the line, basically.

[00:06:07] Jay: Yeah.

[00:06:08] Christian: yeah, my reputation, it was,it was very, a lot more difficult than I thought it would be.

[00:06:13] Jay: It's such an interesting like thing, 'cause you certainly got to exercise some sales muscle there that you didn't have to have before. Right? Because freelancing is like you're selling yourself and your services, but that's a totally different. Thing to sell then like I have a team that's gonna do really good work and you should trust me that I can run this team not to.

So it is an inter, it's just a very interesting thing to me like to make that switch. 'cause I've had to do that and I very much remember that first time where I got the. Feeling that a client that was coming in, like I could probably have somebody else do that. And that was like the game changer moment for me where I'm like, wait a minute, I can pay this guy this much and they're gonna pay me that much and then I don't have to do the work.

Like, that's insanity. so it is a very cool, exciting time in the business where you go from that freelancer guy to now you're a business owner, but then you, let's fast forward. So you fast forward, you're successful. How slash why? Did you sell that business? Just like walk me through like why you sold it and then like how you, what was the actual process?

[00:07:17] Christian: I think the main reason I sold the business is I was getting burned out. It was also during Covid, for about 40% of our revenue was from in-person cybersecurity classes, like I mentioned. I, that was like the business. I started growing, so all those went away. So I was getting stressed out and burned out.

I. I had to like lay some people off and I had this opportunity come up. I had many opportunities for some reason I thought this is serendipity. The company that wanted to buy mine was called Cerberus Sentinel. Cerus is a three-headed dog that guards the gates of hell. I have a patent on a device called Cerus and the Squadron.

I was in the military. Was called server. So I thought, oh, there's three things telling me, the universe is speaking to me, saying I should sell to this company. So that was like, a big part of it and I thought I wanted some relief. I was getting, like I said, burned out during covid and not knowing what was gonna happen with, in-person training anymore and all that.

[00:08:06] Jay: did you actively go out to find them or did they, was it inbound?

[00:08:11] Christian: It was inbound.

[00:08:13] Jay: So you got an email one day and you were

interested enough to reply back or whatever the communication.

[00:08:20] Christian: I had a meeting request one day, and I passed it on to my, I mean, my sales guy took the meeting, my, sales, person and he said, well, this is with the CEO of this other company. They're interested in talking to you about acquiring your company. So then I had another, you know, meeting with them I flew out and we met in person and all this, and I thought, culturally it was a good fit.

But it turned out not to be true culturally. It was a horrible fit.

[00:08:42] Jay: Okay, and, but you did sell it. Is it still a thing today? Is it still around?

[00:08:48] Christian: That brand?

[00:08:49] Jay: Yeah, like the co whoever bought it, is it still

[00:08:51] Christian: Oh, yeah. The company has rebranded as CISO, global, and they're

[00:08:56] Jay: okay?

[00:08:56] Christian: traded company now,

[00:08:58] Jay: Wow.

[00:08:58] Christian: I don't, I'm not sure how well they're doing. I know when I the stock was at like $5 and then it went down to like 8 cents. So I don't know how exactly how well they've recovered.

[00:09:08] Jay: Okay. All right. all right, let's move on. Let's talk. I saw, The server is connection in your LinkedIn. That all makes sense now. So that's interesting. and I very much believe that like the universe kind of organizes and aligns things sometimes. It just doesn't make sense otherwise. blue Goat Cyber, so you sold your company, if your past is an indication, I'm assuming you traveled a little bit and then you started this company, did, what was the genesis of Blue Goat and kind of where did it come from out of the other sale.

[00:09:36] Christian: So when I was working for the parent company, I, and like two years ago, yeah, two years ago I developed blood clots in my left leg and I nearly died and I got quickly diagnosed by a medical device. so shortly after that I quit the parent company and I went through a pretty big bout of depression, 'cause I couldn't do anything I used to do.

I had to sit on the couch and take blood thinners basically. And then after I got that depression, I. I made a decision, you know, I'm not gonna take blood thinners. I'm gonna reclaim my health. And that gave me the confidence to start a new business. I felt like my life wasn't meant to be to the couch on blood thinners.

I was destined for bigger things, and that gave me the confidence to start Blue Goat Cyber. Plus, it was the impetus that if it wasn't for a medical device, I may not be here. And we focused on medical device cybersecurity.

[00:10:20] Jay: Okay. Wow. All right. so you tell me how it started. you were, you know, I. You kind of been through the wringer when it comes to sitting on the couch with blood thinners and you go, I'm gonna start another business. and by the way, we were just talking before the show, as somebody who is also considers themselves very active, just being out of commission for like, you know, a month and a half, is like, you feel like it is a very weird mental.

Physical state you get into where you just can't do the things physically that you want to do. So I can very much commiserate with that, and it kind of does force you. Once you're out of it a little bit, you go, okay, now I can like, get back to being a normal human being. So I definitely commiserate with that.

but tell me, so, so what, you had a medical device almost, you know, saved your life. how did you tie cybersecurity into that? Like just gimme the kind of the nuts and bolts, like how that connects back to creating blue, blue goat.

[00:11:13] Christian: With my first company, Alpine Security, we were based in St. Louis. We had landed a medical device, cybersecurity contract with a big manufacturer in St. Louis. So this is in 2014. So we had the experience with medical devices and their cybersecurity and you know, all the nuances of that. And I thought, this is a niche I want to support because if it wasn't for that medical device, I wouldn't be here. one of the lessons I learned in my first company is to niche down. 'cause I tried to sell cybersecurity to everybody, which meant I sold it to effectively no one. yeah, I picked this niche because I believe in it. I'm passionate about bringing new innovations to market 'cause it really helps humanity.

And, I don't want the ones that are out there to be, recalled because of a cyber attack.

[00:11:59] Jay: so who was your first customer in Blue Goat? You don't have to name names by.

[00:12:05] Christian: exactly remember the first customer. So what I did, I had to, I waited a year after I left the parent companies. So the, you know, the non-compete stuff wasn't there. And then I took all of my old clients out of our CRM that were with Alpine Security and reached out to every single one of 'em, and including my old partners.

So I think one of my first clients came through an old partner actually, which became a new partner, as a referral as a company in Alaska. I'm pretty sure a small healthcare

[00:12:30] Jay: how has the customer changed? Along the way, who are they today versus who they were when you first started?

[00:12:38] Christian: Well, right now,we're niched down, so we don't do, business to consumer, for instance, B2C. When we did B2C, we had, you know, students enrolling individually. we deal with medical device manufacturers. We deal with a, we have a full service package and we have fixed pricing. I would do a little bit of everything, so the customers varied all over the place and now it's pretty much medical device manufacturers are our clients.

[00:13:04] Jay: Got it. And was that. How did you come to that conclusion? Did you just see over and over again that was the right kind of where things were going and you weren't, you know, the other stuff was a distraction. how did you narrow down?

[00:13:17] Christian: A couple things like in cybersecurity, nobody cares about cybersecurity unless there's a mandate I. medical device cybersecurity. there is a mandate, the FDA and the US and other countries, there's regulatory authority. They mandate certain things have to be done from a cybersecurity perspective before the device can be cleared to be sold to the market. So that means there's automatically a driver for these people to have to do something about it. And I automatically, not automatically, but because I got that contract in 2014, we have the experience with medical devices, which is very. compared to normal. Cybersecurity is very different. and I've gone through like the StoryBrand or brand script framework and I had done it for medical device manufacturer.

So you know, I know exactly who our client is. I know what our message is. I know what prom we solve, I know what our value proposition is, and it's easier to do that for one niche down client for everybody.

[00:14:16] Jay: Couldn't agree more. Now, when you do that, or the reason why people don't do that, I think is because they're scared of thinning out their total addressable market by too much. Right? You go, well, we're gonna, there's not gonna be enough customers. So talk to me a little bit about that. Like how, what kind of, you know, TAM research have you done?

Like, who is your, how big is your client base? were you, I. Scared of that same thing where you're like, we're not gonna have enough potential customers if we just do medical device cybersecurity, which I think is a brilliant idea by the way. just talk to me about kind of walking through that process of like knowing that you would have enough potential customers to kind of go down that path of choosing that specific niche.

[00:14:59] Christian: Yeah. So in my first company, I, was afraid of niching down. Like you said, I was afraid I was gonna turn down work and narrow down the tam. with this company, I've researched the total addressable market. I know how many manufacturers there are currently, there's around 3000. I know what our price tag is per. our average price tag is per engagement. So I know if I capture X percentage of that market, what are, what we can make. And I also understand that because I go to a lot of events where there's startups that have, a doctor came up with a brilliant idea. He is trying to get funding to bring this device to market.

So ev literally every day there's a new manufacturer trying to get their new device on the market and get it developed. So it's not just the existing, 3000, you know, every day there's new. clients that add to that tam. So it's a growing market, especially in other regions as well, which we're trying to, you know, capitalize on like Dubai and Hong Kong and all these areas want to become like the leader in med tech.

So this is like, maybe just 'cause I'm so close to the market, I understand it very well. But yeah, I had to really do the analysis on the TAM and what our price points were and what percentage I think I can get of that market.

[00:16:11] Jay: Where'd the name come from? Blue Goat.

[00:16:14] Christian: I like to climb mountains. I used to do mountaineering. I've climbed two of the seven summits and on the mountains, way up high, I see goats on these very precarious, like sides of a cliff. So I like goats because I always see them in on these mountains and they're always like. Stubborn, resilient, agile and persistent.

I think those are good qualities of the company. Maybe not so much the stubbornness. and then I like the blue sky against the snow covered mountains. It's like very calming to me.

[00:16:42] Jay: Love that. Beautiful. If you had to start all over tomorrow, just know what you know today. If you're gonna start the same business, the same product, the same whatever. What will be step one tomorrow?

[00:16:56] Christian: if I started the same, like the same business over,

[00:16:59] Jay: Yep.

[00:17:01] Christian: step one would to be do my market research and make sure I understand the problem I'm solving for the client and make sure that, look at my competitors as well and figure out how I can position myself in the market.

[00:17:16] Jay: Talk a little bit more about that. I mean, what, how do you view competitive analysis? I mean, a lot of these things are big hulking, scary words like market research and competitive analysis and like, I think they get a really bad rap of being these nebulous never ending exercises you have to go through when like in reality, you're not looking to boil the ocean, you're just kind of looking for some very specific markers.

How do you do competitive analysis, in your market?

[00:17:44] Christian: Well, I, we have a pretty decent dial-in sales process, so if we lose opportunity to, a competitor, I wanna know why it's often price, and I'm not one to commoditize my offering, so I have to figure out how to position my offering so the price won't matter. the client or the prospect feels comfortable with us.

They feel like confident that we'll get them to where they want to go, which is to get approved. so I do that and then look at what our customers are doing. I mean, our competition is doing and how our value proposition is better.

[00:18:21] Jay: Is that just Google?

[00:18:22] Christian: my goal is to take over the market this year to become the market leader.

So I have to keep an eye on like currently is the market leader.

[00:18:28] Jay: No, I love that. And yeah, I mean, I would assume, I, do you talk to those competitors?

[00:18:35] Christian: No, I'm trying to organize a cage match with him at one of our, no, I'm kidding.

[00:18:41] Jay: That's my favorite answer, maybe to any question. No, I do not talk to 'em. I like talking.

[00:18:46] Christian: opposed to talking to her, run into him at a conference or

[00:18:49] Jay: I like to talk to 'em. I reach out to mine. It's,I like them to know who I am. I like to hear what they're doing, and sometimes they're like, we've had partnerships that come out of these conversations where we handle stuff that they don't, and you never know.

Based on the website and the, you know, so, so we've, it may be different for your space. We've found some success, and I just like to know who's in my space and if from my conference or if I'm in whoever. So we've done a lot of early reach out on that and I'm not best friends with any of my competitors, but, you know, at least knowing who they are.

But I love your answer. Absolutely not. I like the cage match idea though. Alright, I have one final question for you. non. Business related. this is just about Christian. If you could do anything on earth and you knew you wouldn't fail, what would it be?

[00:19:35] Christian: Become an F1 driver.

[00:19:37] Jay: There it is. We've never got that. We've never got that answer. An F1 driver, that's a great answer. Those things are terrifying.

[00:19:46] Christian: I'm actually gonna. drive an F1 car in Dubai. Next time I go out there, there's a where you can drive an F1 car, but watch the videos. You have to fall into the car though, so you can't really push it as fast as you want to go.

[00:19:57] Jay: Okay. Well, you know, I mean, that's close to your answer. I mean, at least you're gonna go do this. You're gonna go do some version of that. awesome. Well, dude, Christian, I love the story. I. Love the, you know, consistency and the persistence, and I love kind of constantly pushing yourself. So, wish you the best of luck, man.

How can people find, blue Goat if they wanna find out more or reach you directly? if they wanna talk about something I heard today.

[00:20:19] Christian: Yeah, they could find Blue Goat. blue goat cyber.com. We're on all social media as well. And to reach out to me directly, you can probably ping me on LinkedIn. That's probably the best place.

[00:20:28] Jay: Sweet. And we'll link you in the bio. Christian, it was great talking to you brother. Thanks for being on and, we'll talk in soon. All right.

[00:20:34] Christian: All right. Awesome. Thanks Jay.

[00:20:36] Jay: Thanks Christian. See you, brother.

[00:20:37] Christian: I. 

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