Leaders vs Managers (Part 3) with Matt Tramonte

What an episode we have for you today! Welcome Matt Tramonte to the podcast. Matt is a 22 year veteran from the Air Force who served as both a leader and manager within the military but also served these two roles in his personal life as well.

Matt has a personal connection with your host Jason Culham, as Matt was Jason's high school ice hockey head coach. Matt had a profound impact on Jason and many others, so why not have a great leader speak on the differences and similarities of leaders vs managers. 

Matt gives some incredible insight on what separate the two terms, but also highlights several examples of how you can be both. Matt's paints a great picture on how you can improve both your manager styles as well as enhance your leadership capabilities. He gives personal stories from both his military time and his personal life that are sure to resonate with you. He incorporates work stories and blends those with lessons he's learned while being a husband and dad as well. 

This is a topic we could speak on for hours but what you will hear in 45 minutes could change your life. Please tune in and listen to Matt's advice on how to be a better leader and manager. 

Thanks and enjoy!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to 10 to win. Give us 10 minutes of your time and we'll show you how to create a winning mindset.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Welcome back to 10 to win the podcast, the podcast focusing on how to create a winning mindset in 10 minutes. This is part three of our leaders versus manager series. If you are just tuning in for the first time, this is the interview portion. And today we have a very special guest. Jason, tell the listeners who is here with us today.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Yes, that's right, Kevin. Today's guest is someone who's made a profound impact on my life, particularly when I was playing hockey, but his leadership during that time really shaped the person I am today. So with that, I would like to introduce Matt Tremonti for over 21 years. Matt has been a noteworthy leader in the wine distribution space. He's been a founding partner and the president at Tremontti and Sons, a fine wine distributorship. But he can also be credited with serving 22 years in the Air Force while contributing to the hockey community with 18 years of head coaching, both high school and youth hockey teams. Matt has been honored with numerous awards, recognizing his leadership, including being named to the Beaver Creek Hockey Hall of Fame and prestigious military decorations. He holds a bachelor's degree from the United States Air Force Academy and a master's degree from the University of Massachusetts. He currently lives in Mason, Ohio with his wife and two children. Matt, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, man. How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

I am fantastic. First, let me thank you and uh Kevin for having me on. And uh I know we were catching up a little before the show, but um, it is great to see your face again uh all these years. So uh yeah, uh it's I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

Yeah, well we're being here, Matt. Yeah, yeah, this is great. This this is uh a really cool um moment for me. And uh I've been certainly excited about this one, uh getting in touch with with you again. But let's dive into kind of what we've been talking about this week, Matt. And this week we have been talking about the differences between leaders and managers. And and Matt, you've played the role of a leader, you've played the role of a manager, and now you play both roles with your wine business. What do you believe are the biggest differences between leaders and managers?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

You know, when I when I think about managers versus leaders, you know, I think you can you can be a manager and be good at it with without being a leader, but I don't think you can be a leader without also being able to manage. I think you need both to be an effective leader. And you know, when I when I think of here in our organization, uh my time in the Air Force, you know, I had a chance to be around a lot of good managers, and I and I would say managers, effective managers are really good at the details. You know, they they're good at organizing, they're good at planning, those sorts of things, you know, uh listening to their leadership and understanding what the goals are, and then pointing the team in the right direction for that specific task or tasks. I think I think that makes an effective manager. I I think managers can then grow into what makes a great leader, but not all of them take that next step. And and and uh and what makes a great leader, in my opinion, is you know, kind of comes down to a couple of words for me and the in the way I think I've approached leadership, and that's you know, emotion. I think emotion's a big part of it. I think you have to observe and you have to listen. If you can have those characteristics and you can and you can apply those to the people that you're trying to lead, it takes the your ability to motivate them to a whole different level. It can help them get to a place that they probably didn't even think they could get there by themselves. I I think a manager can't do that. I think a manager cannot take somebody who and convince them they can do things bigger than themselves. But I think great leaders can do that, and that's where that watching and observing and listening to the people that you're trying to lead, because everybody's different, and you have to understand that those people on your team are are all different.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Um so that I think that's probably how I would differentiate the two. I love that listening thing because I think it's fascinating that so many people who are en route uh to becoming a leader, particularly a leader, and and management is part of this as well, sometimes they always think that they have the answers. And in the contrary, one of the biggest things, as you're mentioning here, that a leader can do is actually listen to their folks and and take what they're saying and spin it around and do what you can to help them rather than just offering up a solution that you feel is appropriate all the time without even knowing what the problem is from their side. So I love that part that you're talking about there from listening. I think that's a key attribute from a leader.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Well, I and I think part of that comes from if you're a good follower, which you know I'm convinced, and I was trained that way at the academy, to be a great leader, you have to first be a great follower. And a lot of times I think that motivation and experience to become a great leader comes from you observing great leaders who listen to you or listen to other people that were on your team and said, you know, that that was great. I mean, he just didn't come in here, as you said, Jason, and go, he's, you know, he's got the solution to every problem he thinks he does, doesn't ever ask us what the approach is. Um, and I think that's one of the greatest motivators or the greatest ways to learn how to be a leader is to to be effectively led by somebody and and and you get the chance to watch that, really to be able to be a part of a great leader. And I was lucky enough. I had uh, I'm trying to think now, I think we had five commanders that I worked under in the Air Force, and two of them were two of the best leaders I've ever I've ever had the chance to work with. One of them still a great contact of mine out in Waynesville, Ohio, and uh um but just one of those people that that made you every single person felt like a million bucks working for that guy. Um, really. He was he motivated you every single day and always put you ahead of him in the limelight. You know, never one to try to to try to steal the successes and the congratulations. He always put the team out in front. Um, and everybody would go through the wall for that guy.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

So, Matt, you kind of outlined the process of the manager a little bit, and and let's use you know just the root word, right? A manager kind of manages the situation, and as you mentioned and pointed out, leaders take the initiative and and build up, which includes taking people where they don't even know that they can go uh within themselves. And so you've done this through your military experience, through your coaching background, and now you've got this business and you're leading the business, but you're also probably trying to produce more managers who just manage situations. Um do you think the skills that the the ones that you've been around the most is something that these people were born with, or it is it at all development, or is it some blend of the two?

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah, I I would say it's a blend. And I think you can be you can be a good leader by learning. Jason mentioned I went to the Air Force Academy, and that's a leadership laboratory. I mean, that's four years. And what's really great about the way they do things is, you know, as a freshman, you come in and what you're you're what the other cadets call a dually. And your only role is to follow. Your whole freshman year is to really learn how to be a follower. And the people that are leading you are your are the sophomores. So the what they call three degrees. So the three degrees are leading the four degrees, and that gives them their first opportunity to kind of cut their teeth and learn how to make mistakes under the supervision of the juniors who are helping the sophomores learn. And then the seniors run everything. They're they're the wing commander, they're the they're the top, the top guys, but they've had two previous years of leadership experience. Um and so I think I think everybody who graduates there has learned how to be a better leader than when they got there. So I am convinced you can be taught how to be a good leader. I mentioned earlier you can observe a great leader and just if you're if you're perceptive, you're picking up on, okay, what is it about that guy when I worked for her or that girl when I worked for her that I woke up every day, couldn't wait to get to work, or or you know, I just always felt listened to, that sort of thing. But I think the the difference is to be an outstanding leader, I think you have to be born with certain characteristics. And and I think that's the difference between the good leaders and the great leaders. I think people here at my office are just tired of my sports analogies. I I use sports all the time because it's so to me, at least, it it feels very black and white when you talk leadership. Because, especially in professional sports, because you are, you know, everybody can see all the different NFL teams, and everybody has a head coach. But only a few are considered the greats, right? The the the the folks that that are on the Mount Rushmore of coaching. Well, those guys, what they have that ability, if if that was replicable by just reading a book or watching a video by Bill Belichick, everybody would be on that Mount Rushmore. Yeah, but it's not. You can be good, but that next step, I really think is something you're born with. Um, I think it's something you you harness and you shape over the years of of trial and error, of of really sticking yourself out there and leading people and failing. Um, I know personally, some of my best leadership growth has come when I failed at being a leader trying something and and looking back and going, okay, you know, I shouldn't shouldn't have done that. That didn't work, and why didn't it work? And and why didn't my people respond? And and why didn't the team get that? You know, if one guy doesn't get it on the team, but if 19 guys don't get it, probably didn't communicate it properly. Right. You know, probably wasn't observing and listening to what their needs were, and I thought I knew, but I I didn't do a good job as a leader.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

That's such a good point. I mean, Kevin and I have talked about so many times on the podcast that your failures are your greatest successes. People wouldn't be where they are right now if they wouldn't have failed. Even Bill Belichick and Nick Sabin and the greats that you've mentioned, you know, had many, many years of failing at something in order for them to become as good as they are, as great as they are right now in their leadership roles. But yeah, you're you're you're touching on so many amazing things that I think will resonate with with the folks here who are trying to be better leaders and and and managers as well, because they are different, but they do blend um in various ways. But let me ask you this so many people who hold an executive title within their company automatically believe they are leaders, but we just know that's not true. I mean, we've all had different bosses, you know. I'm sure even in the military, Matt, you probably had some folks that maybe could have been better in their positions. And we all could be better. I mean, we're all striving to be as as good as we possibly can, but you know, what what certain traits do you believe that people tend to gravitate towards in an organization? I know you mentioned having a leader that listens, but is there anything else that you would want to expand on? And we can use the team atmosphere as something too. Kevin and I do a lot of stuff uh where we are talking about sports analogies on here too. So what kind of traits do you believe people and organizations look for in their leaders uh to continue to kind of to follow them really and and move on with them?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

I think people want to be pushed. I think good people want to be held to a standard, but they want to clearly understand what that standard is. You know, I read uh Colin Powell's book years ago, General Powell, and one of the analogies he gave that I thought was great, and it really stuck with me all these years, is he talked about when they would do timed runs for the enlisted folks, right? So they a couple times a year they'd have to have these runs, and the guys the guys would always complain. You know, on the on the buildup to the run, they'd be complaining about it, they'd be whining, they didn't want to do it. And these are the toughest, I mean, these are the tough, tough army guys. And he said, I tell you what, we get out there on that track or on the course, he goes, they would struggle through it, they would run the mile and a half or two miles. He said they'd be coming across the finish line. But what's the first thing they all ask when they cross the finish line? What was my time? Yeah. He said, because they want to know where they stack. They wanted to be pushed to a to a new standard and they want to be challenged. So I think you have to challenge your people and you have to set expectations clearly so they know what it is you're going for. Um, but I think you also have to, people want to be cared for. Uh leaders have to care. Here at here at Tremonti and Sons, I tell our people all the time, you know, my go, my job, and we have 30 some odd employees, and some of them are warehouse guys, some of them are delivery drivers, a lot of sales reps, internal office people. But when I speak to all of them, I say, my job is to give them the tools to do their job. That's the way I look at being the president and partner of this company. My is to give them the tools to succeed, care for them, and then just get out of their way. And and I think they feel, at least I hope they do, they feel that that on a daily basis that all of that is taken care of for them so they can focus on the work because they are the frontline people. And so whether it's when I walk and and you know, I talked about listening and observing, when I walk in the warehouse, I don't have to ask all the warehouse people what it is they need to be cared for. If I look and I see the mops falling apart, we don't have enough uh racking for the wine boxes. Um, they're using a pallet jack that's leaking oil and doesn't hold pressure, the vans, the delivery vans are falling apart. It's my job to observe that and get the replacements, find a way for us to order the right things, provide them the tools so when they show up to work, they have clean, good you clean uniforms, you know, good working equipment that makes their job easy. So all they have to do are the requirements that are listed on their job, and they can do it to the best of their ability. Um, I think you have to, I think people want that from their leaders, and they want to be recognized. You know, we talked about that a little earlier. My best commander I've ever worked for in the Air Force. Every time the inspector general would come and do an evaluation, or the wing commander would come by and walk through, and he would pat this colonel on the back and he'd say, Hey, Colonel, this your unit's doing great. He'd go, my colonel would grab Matt Tremontti. This is the this is one of the reasons. Right here. This guy. This guy's one of the best. You keep your eye on Matt Tramonti. If you have an opening up there at the wing staff, you got to get this guy. Or Susie So-and-so, you got to get her. She's the look at, I mean, nobody wears a uniform better than her. Look how sharp. And the the general would leave, and everybody was beaming. You know, he could have easily sat there and taken all that praise, but he knew his job was to put that to refocus that spotlight on the people who really get it done. And uh, and people just want to be appreciated like that. I I, you know, I think that's really important. Coaching is no different, right? The the the newspaper guy comes and wants to talk to you about how great the big win was. The first thing a great coach should do is, well, did you see 21 Jason Cullum out there? Guy was lighting it up. I mean, he the reason you know, we haven't had a player like that in the history of Beaver Creek, and he's turning this program around. And uh, and uh we're gonna bright days ahead because of guys like like Jason. You know, because that's the truth. What you heard about that guy? I'm telling you, none of that, none of that stuff is false. He he he put that he put that organization on the map, made my job a lot easier in the following five or six years after he came through. I really like this.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Go on, Matt. Let me let me ask you this. So you you just described you know a lot about the business and what you think your role as the president uh and and partner of the of a business is, where you are making sure that everyone has the tools so that they can be successful every day. And then I would imagine as the leader and or the manager, it it makes the job of holding those people accountable a lot easier because now they could they don't have an excuse to fall back on. Well, well, but my truck was broken, boss, so I couldn't do the deliveries all all the deliveries you wanted, right? Um, and I so I want to I want to turn this into accountability. And it's this is a two-part question for you, Matt. One, as a leader, how do you hold those under you accountable? Because I think that is a struggle that a lot of people um do face. And the second part of the question is how do you when you are the leader and there is no one else above you to hold you accountable, how do you then, how are you then held accountable? Who holds Matt accountable for making sure that Matt's job is done on a daily basis? Um because again, I think that is a sh also a struggle. People don't know actually how to hold themselves accountable.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah, that boy, part two is an outstanding question. The first part, I we use periodic uh reviews. So we we have standardized time times that our managers um and I to the managers review people's performance. So we we give them an opportunity to offer their observations on what they've seen since the last review. We also offer our observations on what they've done well, what they can improve on. So that's one way we can we can kind of keep that communication open. And and communication is the key, right? So we my door's always open, but I'm always very cognizant. When I was deployed in Cuba, I I remember this story. So I was deployed down there and I was in charge of the these 60 enlisted troops. We were we were preparing food for the and and bedding for the entire camp. So the camp was made up of a lot of civil engineers and army security forces, and we were cooking and bedding down this entire team. And of the 60 people I was in charge of, 20, there were three groups of 20 from three different Air Force bases. So 20 of the guys came from my base with me. So I knew those 20 guys. I worked with them every day back in Wyoming. The other 40 never met them before. So get down there and had an issue. I think it was day three or four, we had an issue, a personnel issue, a conflict between one of the managers of these 40 folks that I didn't know, uh a master sergeant, and an airman. And so the airman pulls me aside when I'm in the dining facility, right in front of the manager and says, you know, hey, this master sergeant, master sergeant so-and-so, he wants me to do it this way. I don't think we ought to do it. This is not the way we're gonna do it. Blah, blah, blah. And I said, hey, listen, Sergeant so-and-so is your boss. I said, he's in charge. If he's giving you clear guidance on what to do, it's within the regs, as far as he's asking you to do a lawful order. I said, he's in charge, he's the guy with the experience. We're going with him. I said, that's that's that's who you take your your uh charge from. About a half hour later, I'm I'm in my office, which is a tent, and the master sergeant comes to me and says, You got a minute? And I said, Yeah. And he goes, sir, I just got to tell you. And I was a second lieutenant, young guy, and he goes, I just got to tell you. He said, I work for a lot of officers in the Air Force, he said, and I've never had one who clearly stood by me when a subordinate asked me, you know, basically pointed me out. And he goes, that what you just did right there is gonna make the the next six months of my deployment real easy, because they won't be asking questions. They won't be going to you around me to try to get what they want done. They're gonna have to go through me. He goes, and I'm not gonna have all the answers, but I'll come to you if I don't. And um, and so the same thing here at our company. That taught me a lot about how managers and leaders feel they want a chance to manage and lead. If somebody, if a driver comes directly to me with an issue that should have gone through their superior first, I say, have you have you talked to so-and-so first? You know, you gotta you gotta check with him first and then let him let him have an opportunity just to solve the problem. That also holds that person in check, but it builds confidence in the management that they know they have the opportunity to do their jobs and to and to try to lead their people. Um so I think that communication thing is an open door, you know, that that that term uh you have an open door of policy is great if you don't undercut the authority of the people that are that are managing those folks.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Um and I think that ties I think. Everybody has an example of sometime when they've been undercut by by their boss because somebody went around what you were trying to get done and uh and you kind of got your feet taken out. Um but Kevin, I'll tell you the the the the one that I that the part about how do I keep myself accountable. Uh honestly, I am very self-motivated. You know, I'm I'm a guy who gets up every morning, goes to my basement in the unfinished basement and works out. Instead of going to the gym, I I go to my basement, and my buddies are like, Are you out of your mind? He's like they go, I would do like January 1st, and then I'd be done. Like I my New Year's resolution would be there, and then they go, I and I never do it again. But I've always kind of been what works for me is first of all, setting certain standards for myself that I got things I want to achieve, and I don't want to let people down.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

So it comes full circle back to that caring thing. When I was coaching, I got up and I drove from Cincinnati to Beaver Creek to coach the high school team, and I never was late because I didn't want to let the guys down. Like I cared for them and I wanted them to know I cared. And same here. If we don't do things right here at the at the upper levels of this company and run it correctly, we won't have the money and people won't have jobs. You know, I don't want to put 33, 32 people out on the street because I wanted to go home earlier. I wanted to take four-day weekends because I own the business. It just, I think you have it has to matter, and it's it's a lot like family, right? You're you're being a parent. If you're gonna bring kids in the world, you gotta you gotta invest in your kids. You gotta spend time, you gotta be willing to lead, and that takes effort and time and and caring.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

No, it's that's that's a yeah, that's a great answer and a great point. And you know, what I have recognized, and I'm sure that you guys have too, is that you mentioned observing, right? You observe the people you know within your company, but guess what? They're observing you too, right? And so if if they don't feel like you're stepping up to the plate like you've asked them to do, all of a sudden that two-way street, it's not there. It becomes a one-way street, and everybody usually gets off that street. Um and so I I really like that because I I do believe that a lot of leaders are self-motivating, like you mentioned. And and and by the way, we we knew you cared, you were excellent, you know, at getting married. We knew you cared uh a lot. But you know, that all of that is is significant when it comes to being a leader, is is that you're not doing something um or I should say it like this. Whatever you're asking your employees to do, you should be willing to do yourself to some extent, right? There's different levels within the company, but you know, don't do something that you want them to do that you're not willing to do yourself. And I've we've we've probably all heard that a number of different times.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

But can I add something really quick, Jason? So Matt, you you mentioned this earlier uh a couple answers ago, but uh but it stuck with me. I really want to ask. So you said that you yourself have have tried things as a leader that that have failed, and it's like if if one person didn't get it, it was this way. But if 19 people didn't get it, clearly you didn't communicate it right. Can you give us an example of something that uh when you were a leader that you tried and that that failed, and and kind of give us the details and what how you what you learned from that process?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I boy, I've got tons of them. Uh I think you're not a good, I don't think you're an effective leader if you don't have a long road of trial and error. Because sometimes it's just trying to figure out people. I mean, my one of my biggest regrets, and I had a chance to share this with some folks, uh, some high school kids not too long ago, is was when I was in high school, my senior year, I was elected captain of our of our varsity hockey team. And to this day, it is the worst job of leadership I've ever done because I didn't know how to lead. I knew how to play the game.

SPEAKER_04 26:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

But I had no idea how to lead. I so I don't think a lot of I think I have natural ability as a leader, but it but I hadn't observed it yet. I hadn't recognized it and and kind of and kind of worked on it. I went through them, I didn't do anything different my senior year than I did the other years. I just I played more because I was a senior. I got an opportunity to talk to the referees more because I wore the C on my chest, and I gave maybe a couple of rah-rahs, but you know, I I didn't I wasn't ready for that. You know, I wasn't, I did, I didn't my coach failed because my coach didn't pull me aside either in and in and try to help me learn how to lead. You know, because what a captain, a great captain really does is is take care of the younger guys, right? You know, your your other seniors, they've got it. But those young guys, when they first come in and put the jersey on, you got to make sure they're part of the team. You got to make sure that that there's no hierarchy, you know, we're not knocking, we're not knocking on people, that we're not, we're not hazing or or or making people feel unwelcome. That team's gonna be so much more successful if everybody feels a part of it. And uh and I just didn't do it because I what I did was observe the captains that came before me, and they didn't do it either. So again, you kind of learn leadership by watching great leaders, and I the guys I watched were the upperclassmen who treated me like dirt for three years. So I did, I did a bit of that when I was a senior. And the other the other time that I I I thought of comes to mind is a couple of years ago, but over about a five-year span of of just parenting and being a good husband. I mean, I was busy with work all the time. I kind of applaud, I thought, you know, I I feel like I know a lot about leadership and I feel like I've had a lot of experience with it, but there is something different about leading your family. And um when you're you know, being being a good husband, being a I I was I was managing and leading my my home life, like I was leading my hockey team and leading my business. And the one thing I didn't apply that I needed to more than anything was the key, which is listening. I my both my kids are different. I should have been listening back then to understand what one needed was probably totally different than what the other one needed. And what they needed was not what I assume, what I assumed I knew they needed, because I was raised a certain way and I know the way I'm wired. So I was like, well, I'm wired this way. That's gonna you tell them this and they'll be successful. And everybody's different, and that's what makes great leaders. And so I started to sit back, you know, had have some really good friends and had some good conversations, and I started to recognize that I was missing those opportunities, leading my family because I wasn't listening to each of them and observing and seeing what works and motivates them to make sure that I could be successful in helping them be the people they want to be. And the last three, four years have been fantastic. That's why I said caring, listening, so important when it comes to being a good leader.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

See myself doing some of the things that you just gave examples of. You know, in my line of work in the fire department, you know, we're we're called to a situation and we've got to solve that like now, right? You know, in the snap of a finger, there's an issue, there's an emergency, and we need to solve it now. And I find myself trying to apply those same things within my household, that's not the way to deal with things. I mean, to your point, I need to take a step back, I need to listen. My kids are not the same, and I've got four boys. Kevin's got four kids as well. They're not the same. And you have to sit here and say, Okay, I can't manage this kid and lead this kid like I can do with this one over here. They are totally different. And that's great advice. Is sometimes we just have to almost leave that leadership role or or the position or whatever you're doing at work and come back to your own household and look at it from a different perspective. That's that's really, really good insight there.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

And and Jason, I'll tell you, sometimes the way you're describing your leadership style with work and everything is the right time, is the right way to lead your family. Sometimes you're gonna need that, right? I mean, even as a husband, I know my wife has said, sometimes I want you to take the reins of this family, point us in the right direction, and just get us there. Like, let's just go, let's go. You got you got the reins, go. Yeah. And sometimes she's like, you know what? I just need you to listen. Yeah, I just need you to listen today. And and so I think you're right. I think I think you have to have all those tools in your tool belt, and and great leaders know when to apply which one.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Speaking of that, it's a good segue in to the next question here because I think personally this is almost the million-dollar question, which is this the one thing that I always find is somewhat controversial is how executives, coaches, leaders, managers how they treat their teams or their employees. Do you believe that being honest no matter what the consequences are, or when when would you determine that tough love is needed versus trying to stay positive and optimistic with your team? You talked about accountability and you talked about standards and trying to raise you know the standards to get everybody you know continually to be better. But where do you draw the line with that? Is there a line that you should draw? I mean, where does Bill Belichick and Nick Sabin draw these lines?

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Okay, it's important to really know your people. You know, I think that was the mistake I made with leading leading my kids, not really paying attention how the subtle differences between what motivates each of them. Um, same with an organization. You gotta get to know them. And that and that's another big piece of that leadership thing, right? Get it out there. So are you are you married? You know, uh you got any kids? What what what do you what do you like to do on the weekends, you know? And you start to get a feel for the person that is the employee or the person that is the player on the team. And I think sometimes it changes as well based on the age group. I mean, I think you're probably not you're probably gonna want to candy coat it a little bit more with a younger person than you would that somebody who's older and would rather you just be honest with them. But there are some adults who don't want you to be honest with them, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Um I know one way of giving feedback that that we often uh were utilized at the academy was called the sandwich technique. I've heard it called the Oreo technique. You know, you the good, you give them something good, you tell them the corrective stuff that's not so good in the middle, and you finish on a high note as well. Right. Um, but but as far you you mentioned, you know, Sabin and Belichick, and and uh, you know, I'm always looking at these coaches for inspiration and examples. And it was just this past week that I that I read an article about Belichick, and it was it really was interesting. So the New England Patriots coaching staff got it got invited over the uh summer, or I guess maybe it might have been the fall, to go coach one of the teams for the college. I don't know if they call it it's like they're called like the East West Shrine game. So I don't know if they're considered all-stars, but they're all players who are most likely projected to be drafted somewhere. These most of these guys are not your top 20 picks because they don't want to get hurt. So those guys aren't there. But everybody else, seniors and juniors who most likely will, I think they're maybe they're all seniors, but all will most likely get drafted. They have an East Team and a West team. And Belichick's Patriots coaching staff went out there and coached one of the teams for a whole week of practice, and then they play the game on Saturday. Now, he wasn't the head coach of the team. He didn't want to do it. So one of his assistants was the head coach, but Belichick was still out in the field working with these guys and everything. And you talk about, you know, do you give people clear correction? Do you give people clear uh feedback? Does that work? Can you do that as a leader? Well, the last practice of the week, they were getting ready to go out on the field, and the and the guy who was acting head coach, his uh Belichick's assistant, was doing his X's and O's, kind of going over the layout for the for the practice. And then right before he dismissed him, Bill says to him, Hey, listen, I just want to say something. Fellas, listen up. He said, I've been watching you all week. There isn't a single guy I've watched in practice this week that could beat out the worst player on my team. You all stink. He said, and if you think you're getting drafted in a couple of months, you got another thing coming. I think it's important you actually go out there today and try to show us something. And he turned around and walked out of the locker room. He said that was, and the and the guy who wrote the article said it was the best practice of the whole week. And I was like, you know, there, now there's a captured audience, right? There's guys who have aspirations of being multimillionaires playing in the elite level of football. He knew that crowd can be told they're not good enough because their whole lives they've been told they are. So he knew if I don't, he was gonna be a disservice to them if he didn't correct that, because they weren't gonna have a successful career in the NFL. And he knew it based on his experience. He's like, guys, you wouldn't make you wouldn't beat out the worst player on my team the way you've been playing. I wouldn't draft any of you. And these were the best guys. And uh, you know, so it just shows you that you got to know your audience, you know, leadership great leaders are just something else, man. They just great leaders get talked about in a podcast at uh, you know, like like we're doing, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

I don't think he's sitting there talking about me, but well, well, Matt, I'll tell you what, this is the second week in a row that we're talking about Bill Belichick because our guest last week.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Really?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Our guest this week was Ted Karas Jr., he's the starting set for the Cincinnati Bengals. They he was on the Super Bowl 51 Patriots team, and he had all kinds of Bill Belichick stuff, and it was amazing. So you need to check that episode out.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

I will, I will. Yeah, no, he's one of my favorites, you know. He's he's often misunderstood by a lot of players until they go play for him. That's what I respect about that. A lot of the guys who who say bad things are guys who did not play for him, then they go there and they go, now they get it. Yeah, they get it, you know. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Well, I'll tell you what, Matt. This this has been awesome. I mean, it really, really has.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Um it's been awesome for me.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Do do you have any kind of just uh wrap-up advice for the audience? So remember the audience is here, they're trying to create a winning mindset, they're trying to enhance their leadership uh experience or or improve as managers in their life. Um you know, just give them something to kind of closing thoughts from that.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

My my what I would what I would suggest is be a mentor and get a mentor. If you know, spend time with folks, you know, I'm 52. Spend time, I spent try to spend time with the younger folks in my organization that are working their way up. Uh, I have a son and a daughter, I spend time with both, but but sometimes I find my my son's older, he's 18, he's he's on the team now, he's our he's coming into our warehouse and and managing. Um, and try to, and so I try to mentor them and give them a little bit from my experience, but so much of what I learned are those great coaches. My high school coach, I'm still connected with my my uh my uh those those two bosses from the Air Force, um, had had had connections and conversations long after I uh we weren't working together in the same organization. Because uh it felt like every time we sat down and spoke, I took some nugget from that and just kind of buried it away and felt better from it and felt more confident the next time I had a leadership opportunity. So I would recommend, I know that great books, podcasts. I mean, you can never stop learning, but if I can add one piece of your, you know, to somebody's arsenal of what they're doing to learn, whether it be podcasts or books, um, I would say mentorship. Get a great mentor that you look up to, have a lunch a month or a lunch a quarter, and just kind of check in with them, and and you'd be amazed, I think, at the kind of acceleration you have on your journey to be a great leader. It just it just multiplies so quickly, and you get to skip so many steps, and and it really makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

That's great advice. When are we going to lunch, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Anytime. With you, anytime. I'm right, I will do it listening. I tell you. Can I do it? You got two seconds?

SPEAKER_04 39:10

Absolutely. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

All right. All right, I'm gonna brag about this guy. So we're at Beaver Creek, right? I coached there 10 years, and during that time we had never beaten Centerville. So if you're if you're in the Ohio area or you're uh you know from the greater Cincinnati, Dayton area, you know the town of Centerville. Famous for great football, a lot of great uh athletic teams, and we couldn't beat them. I mean, that that was our that was our goal to try to find a way to beat this team. So we we have a home game, Jason's senior year, and uh it's it's tied under a minute left in the game. Jason scores the go-ahead goal. So now we're up by one. Faceoff goes to center ice. So what's so what's the other coach do? He does the only thing he probably thinks he can do, which is he's got to pull the goalie because he's he's now down a goal, less than a minute. There's like 40 seconds left. They drop the puck. Jason goes over the blue line, we score again. Uh I don't know if you scored the next one and the last. Anyway, he scores or another guy on the team scores in the open net. So now we scored two goals in like seven seconds. So now, so now the our parents are losing their minds because we had we had never beaten this team. Yeah, our bench acts like we won the Stanley Cup. I mean, now you really now you really feel it. Like I'm going, we're gonna win this game. Like we're up two goals in like 40 seconds. So the coach, their coach goes, ah, it's over. He puts his goalie back in, face off goes back to center ice, the ref drops it. Pretty sure it was you, Jason, goes right in, scores again on the goalie. We scored three goals in like 12 seconds and beat him by three goals. And so to this day, I told this story to every team I've ever coached. When they think we can't like the game's over and we can't come back, or when we're up a goal, I just tell them how quickly it can change. But it is one of my favorite memories of this guy because uh we did a lot of a lot of great things uh together, and and and he he was a big part, a lot of my memories of coaching. Moved to him, including his last game as a senior. I out of nowhere switched him for a center back to a defenseman, a position he had he hadn't played. And the week before we got beat by this team by like 12 goals, 10 goals, I turned to him that week in practice and said, Jason, I'm gonna put you back on defense. He's like, What? I said, I'm gonna need I need you on defense because we we can't outscore him 13 to 12. We gotta we gotta shut him down. You're our best player. He said, Whatever you need, coach. Put him on defense. They beat us by one goal. Yeah, beat us by one goal in the playoff game that weekend. Yeah, so one goal from knocking off the number one team in the district. Yeah, from the week before when they beat us by 12. We so this guy was, I mean, he's the real deal.

SPEAKER_04 42:00

So anyway. Well, very, very nice. I really appreciate it tumbling, but uh a lot of that all came from from your leadership. So once again, you know, did a great job. You enhanced the program tremendously. It wouldn't be where it's at now without uh without you. So seriously. Well, thank you. Yeah. But uh well anyway, speaking of the podcast, Jason.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, he he has enhanced this program a lot.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

It's one of you you touched on one of my favorite subjects. I could talk, I could talk about leadership and listen to you guys or folks talking about leadership for hours. I I I'm fascinated by it. I think it I think it's wonderful to make people feel good, you know, to help people succeed is one of the greatest things.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

And and we we would, we wish we could speak on this for hours, but unfortunately, we will have to wrap this up. So that's gonna be it for part three of leaders versus managers. We want to thank Matt Tremonti for coming on and giving us his insight on how you can become a better leader and manager. Matt, you mentioned a couple of times on here that uh you know you're the president and and a and a partner within your wine company. If we have some listeners who want to enjoy some fantastic wine, where can they go to find your company?

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Well, we, you know, that's the that's the that's the crux of being a distributor. So as a distributor, we're the middlemen. We don't we don't make wine, so we don't have a bottle that has our name on it. We represent a lot of different brands. But yeah, I can tell you if you go to any of your favorite wine shops in Ohio and Kentucky, and you say, if you do want to support us, you just mentioned to the to the to the employee, could you point me in the direction of some of your wines from Tremonti and Sons? Because they they'll know that they know all the distributors and they know where they get their wines from, and they can point them in the right direction. Cause we're in all the big retailers and and wine shops.

SPEAKER_04 43:48

Yeah, that's sweet. Yeah. Please go out there, check that out to ask uh for Tremont Sons to get your wine. Um, listen, this has been awesome again. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and rate and review. It as it helps get this podcast out to more people. We'll be back in better than ever on Monday for a brand new episode. And as always, if you're impacting or influencing one person a day, it's worth it. Everyone has 10 minutes to learn a winning mindset. Thank you very much, Matt, for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Thanks, Matt.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

My pleasure, guys. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Thanks for taking the time to create a winning mindset. Remember, we'll release a new episode every Monday. So be sure to start your week off right by listening to 10 to win. Please subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast. And remember, if you're impacting or influencing one person a day, it's worth it. Everyone has 10 minutes to create a winning mindset.