{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.14,"body":"The disease brain idea is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.14,"body":"pushed incredibly hard on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":4.14,"endTime":6.6,"body":"people. Because it creates"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":4.14,"endTime":6.6,"body":"compassion rather than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":6.6,"endTime":9.3,"body":"resentment. We talked about this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":6.6,"endTime":9.3,"body":"in the opening. And without"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":9.3,"endTime":12.96,"body":"other options people just buy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":9.3,"endTime":12.96,"body":"in. But all it's doing is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":12.96,"endTime":17.19,"body":"putting the trauma on a credit"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":12.96,"endTime":17.19,"body":"card. 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What does that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":35.37,"endTime":45.27,"body":"narrative doing to them? Welcome"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":35.37,"endTime":45.27,"body":"back, well, come back to another"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":45.27,"endTime":48.96,"body":"episode until the wheels fall"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":45.27,"endTime":48.96,"body":"off, I'm Matt. And if you didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":48.96,"endTime":52.59,"body":"already know we have a free"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":48.96,"endTime":52.59,"body":"Facebook community available can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":52.59,"endTime":56.04,"body":"be found by clicking any of our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":52.59,"endTime":56.04,"body":"social media profiles, it'll"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":56.04,"endTime":59.22,"body":"bring up a plethora of two full"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":56.04,"endTime":59.22,"body":"related links, one of which is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":59.22,"endTime":64.74,"body":"our free community pop in there."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":59.22,"endTime":64.74,"body":"You can just lurk and listen and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":64.74,"endTime":67.44,"body":"learn from other people going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":64.74,"endTime":67.44,"body":"through similar situations. Or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":67.44,"endTime":70.59,"body":"you can post anonymously, which"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":67.44,"endTime":70.59,"body":"is greatness. can't reply"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":70.59,"endTime":73.29,"body":"anonymously, which is dumb, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":70.59,"endTime":73.29,"body":"you can blame Zuckerberg for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":73.29,"endTime":77.61,"body":"that, not us. And you also get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":73.29,"endTime":77.61,"body":"information as to the latest"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":77.61,"endTime":82.38,"body":"happenings going on with us. One"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":77.61,"endTime":82.38,"body":"of which is our free call that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":82.38,"endTime":86.22,"body":"we have about bi weekly now. 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You know, you know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":110.88,"endTime":115.38,"body":"who we are? And then come on in."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":110.88,"endTime":115.38,"body":"Okay, today's episode, I never"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":115.38,"endTime":118.53,"body":"really get nervous about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":115.38,"endTime":118.53,"body":"recording episodes, but don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":118.53,"endTime":123.27,"body":"want you laughing. Why is that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":118.53,"endTime":123.27,"body":"funny? But this one has. This"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":123.27,"endTime":126.0,"body":"one's got me a little nervous."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":123.27,"endTime":126.0,"body":"And it's just because I want to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":126.0,"endTime":130.02,"body":"do really well. I want this to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":126.0,"endTime":130.02,"body":"go well, I want this message to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":130.02,"endTime":134.61,"body":"land. This is a message on that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":130.02,"endTime":134.61,"body":"show today. I'm sorry, that is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":134.64,"endTime":136.32,"body":"I'm sorry that you're here for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":134.64,"endTime":136.32,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":136.5,"endTime":139.83,"body":"I'm not apology. I don't"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":136.5,"endTime":139.83,"body":"think it's a bad thing. I'm just"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":139.83,"endTime":142.56,"body":"letting people know that you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":139.83,"endTime":142.56,"body":"will be speaking most of this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":142.56,"endTime":145.92,"body":"episode, and there's a reason"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":142.56,"endTime":145.92,"body":"for it. It's a good read."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":145.95,"endTime":147.39,"body":"I gotta have you popping"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":145.95,"endTime":147.39,"body":"in though"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":147.45,"endTime":150.99,"body":"I'll pop in but some"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":147.45,"endTime":150.99,"body":"don't want to hear from me."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":151.05,"endTime":151.65,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":151.68,"endTime":153.87,"body":"That's not true. Everyone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":151.68,"endTime":153.87,"body":"would rather hear from you than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":153.87,"endTime":154.23,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":154.35,"endTime":156.81,"body":"Okay, well, not. That's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":154.35,"endTime":156.81,"body":"not on this one."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":157.5,"endTime":160.26,"body":"Alright, so we did an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":157.5,"endTime":160.26,"body":"episode A little while ago that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":160.26,"endTime":164.01,"body":"was designed to be shareable. It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":160.26,"endTime":164.01,"body":"was a message from me to addicts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":164.01,"endTime":167.28,"body":"or alcoholics. It was a plea for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":164.01,"endTime":167.28,"body":"recovery, why we should consider"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":167.28,"endTime":170.97,"body":"recovery, the benefits of doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":167.28,"endTime":170.97,"body":"so this is part two to that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":171.27,"endTime":174.84,"body":"This is designed for someone in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":171.27,"endTime":174.84,"body":"early recovery, maybe right on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":174.84,"endTime":177.36,"body":"the fence with it. Or if you've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":174.84,"endTime":177.36,"body":"already been in sobriety for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":177.36,"endTime":179.85,"body":"quite some time. Now, we're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":177.36,"endTime":179.85,"body":"going to cover some things here"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":179.85,"endTime":184.17,"body":"that you don't normally hear."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":179.85,"endTime":184.17,"body":"And all I ask is that you keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":184.17,"endTime":187.47,"body":"an open mind, stick around and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":184.17,"endTime":187.47,"body":"listen to the entire thing. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":187.47,"endTime":189.54,"body":"I promise you, you'll learn"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":187.47,"endTime":189.54,"body":"something. And this can be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":189.54,"endTime":196.86,"body":"really, really helpful if you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":189.54,"endTime":196.86,"body":"apply it. Having said that, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":196.89,"endTime":201.33,"body":"just gonna want this to go well."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":196.89,"endTime":201.33,"body":"So I guess let's just get into"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":201.33,"endTime":204.18,"body":"it. Let's just get into it. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":201.33,"endTime":204.18,"body":"you don't know who we are, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":204.18,"endTime":206.64,"body":"your partner spouse just sent"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":204.18,"endTime":206.64,"body":"this to you, you're like who are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":206.64,"endTime":210.27,"body":"these goons? So my wife and I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":206.64,"endTime":210.27,"body":"have been together since we were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":210.27,"endTime":213.81,"body":"14 years old since we were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":210.27,"endTime":213.81,"body":"freshmen in high school. That"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":213.81,"endTime":218.31,"body":"was 20 something years ago."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":213.81,"endTime":218.31,"body":"Yeah, I was an addict alcoholic"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":218.31,"endTime":222.9,"body":"for 10 of those years. I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":218.31,"endTime":222.9,"body":"primarily an opiate user with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":222.9,"endTime":226.59,"body":"alcohol, mixed the two of those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":222.9,"endTime":226.59,"body":"every single day and then I mean"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":226.59,"endTime":228.99,"body":"really though, anything I could"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":226.59,"endTime":228.99,"body":"get my hands on. Yeah, if it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":228.99,"endTime":231.87,"body":"made me feel good and do bad"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":228.99,"endTime":231.87,"body":"shit, I was all about it were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":231.9,"endTime":236.25,"body":"that's kind of the way it worked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":231.9,"endTime":236.25,"body":"for me. Sought recovery, started"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":236.4,"endTime":239.01,"body":"working down that path. And I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":236.4,"endTime":239.01,"body":"been sober now for over 10"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":239.01,"endTime":242.25,"body":"years. That includes nights,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":239.01,"endTime":242.25,"body":"weekends and holidays. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":242.28,"endTime":246.39,"body":"every day, every single day. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":242.28,"endTime":246.39,"body":"we started putting content out"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":246.39,"endTime":250.2,"body":"in the world. And people started"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":246.39,"endTime":250.2,"body":"to reach back out like well wow,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":250.2,"endTime":252.72,"body":"we need more of this more of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":250.2,"endTime":252.72,"body":"this. And it's been kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":252.72,"endTime":255.51,"body":"strange from us because we're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":252.72,"endTime":255.51,"body":"like wow, is this really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":255.51,"endTime":259.26,"body":"revolutionary? What we talked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":255.51,"endTime":259.26,"body":"about here? Yeah. I guess if you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":259.26,"endTime":263.79,"body":"don't know us or what makes us"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":259.26,"endTime":263.79,"body":"different. It's not just a story"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":263.79,"endTime":266.1,"body":"about sobriety like there are a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":263.79,"endTime":266.1,"body":"million people who tell that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":266.1,"endTime":268.77,"body":"story that's not okay. It's not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":266.1,"endTime":268.77,"body":"to say it's not special but it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":268.77,"endTime":273.06,"body":"not unique, right? not unique to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":268.77,"endTime":273.06,"body":"make content about that. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":273.15,"endTime":275.85,"body":"we're not influencers. This"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":273.15,"endTime":275.85,"body":"isn't some kind of influencer"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":275.85,"endTime":279.09,"body":"podcast or account, like, we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":275.85,"endTime":279.09,"body":"don't live lives and try to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":279.09,"endTime":282.27,"body":"people to aspire to live our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":279.09,"endTime":282.27,"body":"lives, right. Like we're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":282.45,"endTime":285.33,"body":"we're not posting our cars or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":282.45,"endTime":285.33,"body":"anything else. It's not like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":285.33,"endTime":289.5,"body":"that. Could it be a couple that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":285.33,"endTime":289.5,"body":"defied the odds and beat"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":289.5,"endTime":292.23,"body":"addiction getting warmer?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":289.5,"endTime":292.23,"body":"There's something to that that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":292.23,"endTime":295.14,"body":"is pretty unique. Yeah. What"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":292.23,"endTime":295.14,"body":"about a woman discussing her"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":295.14,"endTime":298.8,"body":"feelings that oftentimes spouses"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":295.14,"endTime":298.8,"body":"and partners are told that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":298.8,"endTime":302.55,"body":"they're not allowed to harbor or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":298.8,"endTime":302.55,"body":"there's something to that. Yep."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":302.91,"endTime":308.82,"body":"And then more so a recovered"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":302.91,"endTime":308.82,"body":"addict or alcoholic, validating"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":308.85,"endTime":311.94,"body":"his partner's feelings and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":308.85,"endTime":311.94,"body":"taking accountability for those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":311.94,"endTime":315.03,"body":"things that you're not allowed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":311.94,"endTime":315.03,"body":"to harbor. Those last two,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":315.03,"endTime":318.93,"body":"there's something to that. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":315.03,"endTime":318.93,"body":"very much. So our mission here"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":318.93,"endTime":322.71,"body":"is to validate, educate,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":318.93,"endTime":322.71,"body":"empower, and help spouses and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":322.71,"endTime":327.3,"body":"partners on their own recovery"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":322.71,"endTime":327.3,"body":"journeys. Discover what that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":327.3,"endTime":331.02,"body":"looks like for them. And the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":327.3,"endTime":331.02,"body":"reason that this exists, is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":331.02,"endTime":334.77,"body":"because the recovery community"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":331.02,"endTime":334.77,"body":"has largely forgotten about the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":334.77,"endTime":338.88,"body":"people. They get railroaded due"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":334.77,"endTime":338.88,"body":"to our addictions, spouses,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":338.88,"endTime":342.33,"body":"partners, family members, loved"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":338.88,"endTime":342.33,"body":"ones of any kind. And families"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":342.33,"endTime":345.96,"body":"have limited programs and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":342.33,"endTime":345.96,"body":"resources available to them."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":347.97,"endTime":351.78,"body":"Oftentimes, they are told, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":347.97,"endTime":351.78,"body":"quickly need to forget about all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":351.78,"endTime":355.02,"body":"the things that happened in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":351.78,"endTime":355.02,"body":"addiction, and just focus on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":355.02,"endTime":357.99,"body":"their reactions. And if they can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":355.02,"endTime":357.99,"body":"just focus on the reactions, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":357.99,"endTime":362.52,"body":"understand that they too have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":357.99,"endTime":362.52,"body":"problem, I'll codependency, then"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":362.55,"endTime":366.39,"body":"they can find peace and serenity"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":362.55,"endTime":366.39,"body":"that way, they are told to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.55,"body":"basically disregard everything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.55,"body":"that happened because it came"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":368.55,"endTime":371.22,"body":"from a diseased person. And if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":368.55,"endTime":371.22,"body":"it's coming from a disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":371.22,"endTime":374.25,"body":"person, then you can't be hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":371.22,"endTime":374.25,"body":"by it, you can't be affected by"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":374.25,"endTime":377.91,"body":"it. And we just that is absolute"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":374.25,"endTime":377.91,"body":"rubbish. And that is what I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":377.91,"endTime":380.46,"body":"think we preach here. And that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":377.91,"endTime":380.46,"body":"what makes us a bit different."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":380.85,"endTime":383.52,"body":"Because the disease concept of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":380.85,"endTime":383.52,"body":"the disease brain concept is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":383.52,"endTime":385.77,"body":"valid, don't get me wrong, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":383.52,"endTime":385.77,"body":"not gonna sit here and argue"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":386.46,"endTime":388.26,"body":"it's not a disease, we'll"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":386.46,"endTime":388.26,"body":"actually get into that here"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":388.26,"endTime":392.22,"body":"shortly. But I will argue that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":388.26,"endTime":392.22,"body":"the abuse that takes place by a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":392.22,"endTime":395.37,"body":"disease person feels no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":392.22,"endTime":395.37,"body":"different to the spouses and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":395.37,"endTime":398.64,"body":"partners and therefore should be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":395.37,"endTime":398.64,"body":"treated no different. And while"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":398.64,"endTime":400.77,"body":"you can have a different"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":398.64,"endTime":400.77,"body":"understanding of it, knowing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":400.77,"endTime":403.17,"body":"more about the disease, which is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":400.77,"endTime":403.17,"body":"the education component of what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":403.17,"endTime":406.62,"body":"we do here, we are still"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":403.17,"endTime":406.62,"body":"treating it as abuse. It is what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":406.62,"endTime":409.62,"body":"it is. Yep. And I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":406.62,"endTime":409.62,"body":"oftentimes, even addicts are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":409.62,"endTime":412.2,"body":"told that you get off the hook"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":409.62,"endTime":412.2,"body":"because you have a disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":412.47,"endTime":414.6,"body":"That's just a bit about what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":412.47,"endTime":414.6,"body":"makes us different. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":414.6,"endTime":416.55,"body":"new here, you were just sent"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":414.6,"endTime":416.55,"body":"this, you're like, What is this,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":416.55,"endTime":420.09,"body":"that's kind of what we're doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":416.55,"endTime":420.09,"body":"here. But again, I am recovered,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":420.21,"endTime":423.48,"body":"addict, an alcoholic, like I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":420.21,"endTime":423.48,"body":"one of you, I know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":423.48,"endTime":428.43,"body":"you go through. I know what it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":423.48,"endTime":428.43,"body":"like to lose control. I know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":428.43,"endTime":431.76,"body":"what it's like to have that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":428.43,"endTime":431.76,"body":"compulsive behavior and that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":431.76,"endTime":435.51,"body":"impulse and that craving and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":431.76,"endTime":435.51,"body":"that desire to use. But I also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":435.51,"endTime":438.18,"body":"know what it's like to break it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":435.51,"endTime":438.18,"body":"And I know what it's like to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":438.18,"endTime":440.91,"body":"rebuild a marriage in a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":438.18,"endTime":440.91,"body":"relationship and become"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":440.91,"endTime":447.18,"body":"everything that my wife always"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":440.91,"endTime":447.18,"body":"dreamed and hoped I could be one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":447.18,"endTime":450.39,"body":"day, I know what's what it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":447.18,"endTime":450.39,"body":"like, around the full spectrum"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":450.39,"endTime":453.48,"body":"of this thing. So stick around,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":450.39,"endTime":453.48,"body":"I just ask that you keep an open"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":453.48,"endTime":456.78,"body":"mind. And you listen all the way"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":453.48,"endTime":456.78,"body":"through, we might even split"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":456.78,"endTime":459.51,"body":"this into two parts. I think it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":456.78,"endTime":459.51,"body":"might be helpful. It could be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":459.51,"endTime":462.84,"body":"just droning after some point."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":459.51,"endTime":462.84,"body":"Maybe you've split it. Well. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":462.84,"endTime":465.81,"body":"the episodes, the episode ends,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":462.84,"endTime":465.81,"body":"come back on the next day for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":465.81,"endTime":472.47,"body":"the next one. You'll know. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":465.81,"endTime":472.47,"body":"your spouse can accept that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":472.47,"endTime":475.2,"body":"have a disease, the world can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":472.47,"endTime":475.2,"body":"accept that you have a disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":475.2,"endTime":479.85,"body":"like no one's going to defy that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":475.2,"endTime":479.85,"body":"or they shouldn't because you do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":479.88,"endTime":482.01,"body":"there there is something that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":479.88,"endTime":482.01,"body":"has changed within you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":482.01,"endTime":486.15,"body":"physically, you have a disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":482.01,"endTime":486.15,"body":"People empathize with this. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":486.15,"endTime":489.69,"body":"they want to help if you haven't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":486.15,"endTime":489.69,"body":"noticed, they here's what's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":489.69,"endTime":491.94,"body":"frustrating, though, is that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":489.69,"endTime":491.94,"body":"they know the solutions exist."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":492.12,"endTime":499.56,"body":"So while addiction is a disease,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":492.12,"endTime":499.56,"body":"the decision to recover is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":499.56,"endTime":503.61,"body":"choice. So there is some choice"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":499.56,"endTime":503.61,"body":"left in this. It's not all just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":503.61,"endTime":507.18,"body":"disease forever. That and no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":503.61,"endTime":507.18,"body":"one's mad at you for having a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":507.18,"endTime":509.49,"body":"disease. I think it's funny like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":507.18,"endTime":509.49,"body":"Mitch Hedberg, one of my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":509.79,"endTime":512.82,"body":"comedians I listened to back in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":509.79,"endTime":512.82,"body":"like the college days way back"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":512.85,"endTime":516.18,"body":"used to, he used to joke that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":512.85,"endTime":516.18,"body":"addiction is the only to or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":516.18,"endTime":518.82,"body":"alcoholism is the only disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":516.18,"endTime":518.82,"body":"that you can get yelled at for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":518.82,"endTime":521.61,"body":"having like, no one's yelling at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":518.82,"endTime":521.61,"body":"you for having lupus or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":521.61,"endTime":524.28,"body":"something. Yeah, but yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":521.61,"endTime":524.28,"body":"frustrating. And the reason is,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":524.28,"endTime":526.89,"body":"is because there is a choice"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":524.28,"endTime":526.89,"body":"component at which some point we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":526.89,"endTime":530.85,"body":"have to decide to recover and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":526.89,"endTime":530.85,"body":"break that cycle. Yes, that is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":530.85,"endTime":535.47,"body":"choice, even though you have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":530.85,"endTime":535.47,"body":"disease. So there your spouses,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":535.47,"endTime":538.35,"body":"partners, family members,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":535.47,"endTime":538.35,"body":"bosses, whoever, they're not mad"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":538.35,"endTime":540.42,"body":"at you, because you have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":538.35,"endTime":540.42,"body":"disease, they're mad because you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":540.42,"endTime":543.12,"body":"don't make choices about your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":540.42,"endTime":543.12,"body":"recovery. So want to make that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":543.12,"endTime":546.24,"body":"clear, like I know you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":543.12,"endTime":546.24,"body":"struggling. Your spouse has no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":546.24,"endTime":547.86,"body":"you're struggling, everyone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":546.24,"endTime":547.86,"body":"knows you're struggling. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":547.86,"endTime":551.16,"body":"they also know that there's some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":547.86,"endTime":551.16,"body":"choice left inside of you, some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":551.16,"endTime":554.85,"body":"agency left inside of you about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":551.16,"endTime":554.85,"body":"how you recover. So let's get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":554.85,"endTime":557.52,"body":"into the disease model of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":554.85,"endTime":557.52,"body":"addiction. And I won't spend too"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":557.52,"endTime":560.97,"body":"much time on this or I'll try"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":557.52,"endTime":560.97,"body":"not to just have me if I'm going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":560.97,"endTime":564.09,"body":"too far if I just go off on a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":560.97,"endTime":564.09,"body":"tangent, okay. So again, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":564.09,"endTime":567.63,"body":"going to argue that addiction is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":564.09,"endTime":567.63,"body":"not a disease. Addiction is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":567.63,"endTime":570.21,"body":"disease. But I think that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":567.63,"endTime":570.21,"body":"have a failure to look at what a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":570.21,"endTime":574.65,"body":"disease really is. So sigh as"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":570.21,"endTime":574.65,"body":"science defines it a disease is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":574.65,"endTime":579.45,"body":"when a system of the body"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":574.65,"endTime":579.45,"body":"becomes changed physically. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":579.45,"endTime":583.23,"body":"like diabetes, your pancreas is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":579.45,"endTime":583.23,"body":"operating differently than it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":583.23,"endTime":586.83,"body":"would in a normal person. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":583.23,"endTime":586.83,"body":"have a disease, autoimmune"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":586.83,"endTime":589.71,"body":"diseases, your immune system is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":586.83,"endTime":589.71,"body":"not operating as it should that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":589.71,"endTime":592.92,"body":"is a disease. When it comes to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":589.71,"endTime":592.92,"body":"addiction. We call it a disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":592.92,"endTime":595.35,"body":"because parts of your brain are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":592.92,"endTime":595.35,"body":"functioning differently than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":595.35,"endTime":599.73,"body":"they ordinarily would addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":595.35,"endTime":599.73,"body":"and the ingestion of addictive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":599.73,"endTime":603.93,"body":"stuff. instance over time does"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":599.73,"endTime":603.93,"body":"create physical changes within"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":603.93,"endTime":608.04,"body":"the mind. So that's why we call"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":603.93,"endTime":608.04,"body":"it a disease. Okay? Let's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":608.04,"endTime":611.37,"body":"start there. Yeah, but in just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":608.04,"endTime":611.37,"body":"sense. Just keep it at that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":611.37,"endTime":615.18,"body":"everyone on the same page here."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":611.37,"endTime":615.18,"body":"Okay? We're good. Yes, thumbs up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":615.18,"endTime":618.33,"body":"from you. All right, good deal."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":615.18,"endTime":618.33,"body":"This is what it looks like in my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":618.33,"endTime":620.79,"body":"life that like the loop of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":618.33,"endTime":620.79,"body":"addiction has what it felt like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":620.79,"endTime":625.59,"body":"was, I took a drink, I enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":620.79,"endTime":625.59,"body":"it, I took a drug, I enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":626.01,"endTime":629.16,"body":"I did it again, because I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":626.01,"endTime":629.16,"body":"enjoyed it. And then I became to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":629.16,"endTime":634.38,"body":"rely on it. I use it as a stress"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":629.16,"endTime":634.38,"body":"coping mechanism. Once I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":634.38,"endTime":637.05,"body":"relying on it, I stopped"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":634.38,"endTime":637.05,"body":"functioning in the way I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":637.08,"endTime":640.56,"body":"ordinarily would to deal with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":637.08,"endTime":640.56,"body":"stress. Once I stopped doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":640.56,"endTime":643.35,"body":"that, I started to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":640.56,"endTime":643.35,"body":"consequences from life, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":643.35,"endTime":646.38,"body":"stress got a lot worse"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":643.35,"endTime":646.38,"body":"relationship problems. Some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":646.38,"endTime":648.57,"body":"people have legal problems, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":646.38,"endTime":648.57,"body":"start to make really poor"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":648.57,"endTime":651.48,"body":"choices. And then once the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":648.57,"endTime":651.48,"body":"consequences begin, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":651.48,"endTime":655.02,"body":"do take drugs. So back to the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":651.48,"endTime":655.02,"body":"beginning. Yeah. And then a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":655.02,"endTime":658.59,"body":"cycle starts over and over and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":655.02,"endTime":658.59,"body":"over. The mind has been trained"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":658.62,"endTime":661.62,"body":"to seek the drug, though, I want"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":658.62,"endTime":661.62,"body":"to make that clear that this is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":661.62,"endTime":665.7,"body":"a habit that we create, in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":661.62,"endTime":665.7,"body":"beginning with a choice starts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":665.7,"endTime":668.97,"body":"with a choice, and it ends with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":665.7,"endTime":668.97,"body":"a choice, but in between a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":668.97,"endTime":673.44,"body":"disease is happening. Does that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":668.97,"endTime":673.44,"body":"make sense? Yes. Okay. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":673.44,"endTime":676.14,"body":"there's a book written by a guy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":673.44,"endTime":676.14,"body":"named Mark Lewis, he's a PhD."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":676.17,"endTime":679.56,"body":"He's a neuroscientist, actually,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":676.17,"endTime":679.56,"body":"guys. Brilliant. He wrote a book"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":679.56,"endTime":683.64,"body":"called The Biology of desire,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":679.56,"endTime":683.64,"body":"why addiction is not a disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":683.91,"endTime":688.05,"body":"And he discusses how the various"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":683.91,"endTime":688.05,"body":"regions of the brain are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":688.05,"endTime":691.68,"body":"affected by drugs or alcohol in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":688.05,"endTime":691.68,"body":"long term ingestion of these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":691.68,"endTime":695.64,"body":"things. So we'll just go through"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":691.68,"endTime":695.64,"body":"quickly and talk about some of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":695.64,"endTime":699.45,"body":"the parts of the brain that are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":695.64,"endTime":699.45,"body":"affected. And it explains some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":699.48,"endTime":703.5,"body":"not all of the behavior and why"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":699.48,"endTime":703.5,"body":"it's so difficult to stop. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":703.5,"endTime":707.4,"body":"the reward circuit, which is the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":703.5,"endTime":707.4,"body":"nucleus accumbens, is a central"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":707.4,"endTime":710.43,"body":"component of the brain's reward"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":707.4,"endTime":710.43,"body":"system. So during active"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":710.43,"endTime":714.57,"body":"addiction, it's strongly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":710.43,"endTime":714.57,"body":"activated by the substance. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":714.57,"endTime":716.31,"body":"it leads to the release of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":714.57,"endTime":716.31,"body":"dopamine, which is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":716.31,"endTime":718.77,"body":"neurotransmitter we all heard"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":716.31,"endTime":718.77,"body":"dopamine, right? It's the feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":718.77,"endTime":722.97,"body":"good chemical in your mind. Over"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":718.77,"endTime":722.97,"body":"time related our repeated"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":722.97,"endTime":727.8,"body":"exposure, though, causes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":722.97,"endTime":727.8,"body":"desensitization, so it's harder"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":727.8,"endTime":729.03,"body":"to get that same effect."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":730.68,"endTime":734.82,"body":"So that's how that that that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":730.68,"endTime":734.82,"body":"piece starts, okay. Got to put"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":734.82,"endTime":738.0,"body":"more my body to get the same"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":734.82,"endTime":738.0,"body":"thing. So it reinforces the need"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":738.0,"endTime":741.84,"body":"for more. Okay, could the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":738.0,"endTime":741.84,"body":"prefrontal cortex, we talked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":741.84,"endTime":745.56,"body":"about this in an episode I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":741.84,"endTime":745.56,"body":"one time the prefrontal cortex"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":745.56,"endTime":748.02,"body":"is involved in decision making"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":745.56,"endTime":748.02,"body":"like this is what they call like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":748.02,"endTime":752.25,"body":"the CEO of the brain, decision"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":748.02,"endTime":752.25,"body":"making impulse control and long"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":752.25,"endTime":756.63,"body":"term planning in addiction, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":752.25,"endTime":756.63,"body":"region can become impaired, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":756.63,"endTime":759.39,"body":"can see how that could be a bad"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":756.63,"endTime":759.39,"body":"thing. There's also the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":759.39,"endTime":762.0,"body":"hippocampus, the hippocampus"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":759.39,"endTime":762.0,"body":"plays a crucial role in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":762.0,"endTime":765.39,"body":"memory and memory formation."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":762.0,"endTime":765.39,"body":"During addiction it's affected"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":765.42,"endTime":768.18,"body":"it leads to the formation of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":765.42,"endTime":768.18,"body":"strong associations between the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":768.24,"endTime":771.66,"body":"environmental cues and addictive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":768.24,"endTime":771.66,"body":"substances. This is where your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":771.66,"endTime":775.8,"body":"triggers are formed. This is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":771.66,"endTime":775.8,"body":"where we trigger cravings. The"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":775.8,"endTime":778.89,"body":"amygdala is involved in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":775.8,"endTime":778.89,"body":"processing of emotions, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":778.89,"endTime":782.31,"body":"particularly particularly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":778.89,"endTime":782.31,"body":"associated with the emotional"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":782.31,"endTime":786.15,"body":"aspects of addiction. So during"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":782.31,"endTime":786.15,"body":"active addiction, the amygdala"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":786.18,"endTime":788.67,"body":"become overactive, which"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":786.18,"endTime":788.67,"body":"contributes to the heightened"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":788.67,"endTime":792.36,"body":"emotional responses that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":788.67,"endTime":792.36,"body":"get, such as anxiety, stress,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":792.39,"endTime":795.24,"body":"and cravings. There's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":792.39,"endTime":795.24,"body":"striatum, which is a region in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":795.24,"endTime":798.45,"body":"your brain that is involved in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":795.24,"endTime":798.45,"body":"habit forming and reinforcement"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":798.45,"endTime":802.17,"body":"learning, and addiction, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":798.45,"endTime":802.17,"body":"region plays a crucial role in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":802.17,"endTime":805.65,"body":"the development of habitual"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":802.17,"endTime":805.65,"body":"behaviors associated with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":805.65,"endTime":809.28,"body":"seeking and using addictive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":805.65,"endTime":809.28,"body":"substances and engaging in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":809.28,"endTime":811.95,"body":"whatever addictive behavior."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":809.28,"endTime":811.95,"body":"There are some I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":811.95,"endTime":815.1,"body":"obviously, the gambling, sex"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":811.95,"endTime":815.1,"body":"addiction, these are gaming even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":815.1,"endTime":818.79,"body":"like these, this, this part of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":815.1,"endTime":818.79,"body":"the brain is being affected. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":818.79,"endTime":822.75,"body":"then the hypothalamus, which is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":818.79,"endTime":822.75,"body":"responsible for regulating basic"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":822.75,"endTime":826.11,"body":"bodily functions, like your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":822.75,"endTime":826.11,"body":"stress responses, releases of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":826.11,"endTime":829.92,"body":"stress hormones, and an active"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":826.11,"endTime":829.92,"body":"addiction, this area becomes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":829.92,"endTime":833.64,"body":"dysregulated, leading to the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":829.92,"endTime":833.64,"body":"heightened stress response that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":833.64,"endTime":836.67,"body":"we're familiar with if you're in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":833.64,"endTime":836.67,"body":"active addiction, and it also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":836.67,"endTime":840.12,"body":"contributes to withdrawal"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":836.67,"endTime":840.12,"body":"symptoms and relapse. So these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":840.12,"endTime":842.97,"body":"are this, this is what science"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":840.12,"endTime":842.97,"body":"looked at and said, Okay, these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":842.97,"endTime":846.06,"body":"parts of your brain are being"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":842.97,"endTime":846.06,"body":"affected physically, they can do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":846.06,"endTime":849.03,"body":"scans and see that they're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":846.06,"endTime":849.03,"body":"as active inactive addiction or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":849.03,"endTime":852.42,"body":"while under the influence of a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":849.03,"endTime":852.42,"body":"substance. So they it meets the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":852.42,"endTime":856.5,"body":"disease criteria as science"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":852.42,"endTime":856.5,"body":"defines it. Yes, as science"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":856.5,"endTime":859.05,"body":"defines it, right? What were we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":856.5,"endTime":859.05,"body":"gonna say? I was"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":859.05,"endTime":861.84,"body":"gonna say, but what is"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":859.05,"endTime":861.84,"body":"the one amazing thing about the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":861.84,"endTime":862.38,"body":"brain?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":863.52,"endTime":867.36,"body":"So here's what's awesome"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":863.52,"endTime":867.36,"body":"about the brain is that these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":867.42,"endTime":871.2,"body":"changes, and this is what Lewis"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":867.42,"endTime":871.2,"body":"the author emphasizes is that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":871.68,"endTime":875.88,"body":"these changes to these brain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":871.68,"endTime":875.88,"body":"regions are not static, meaning"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":875.88,"endTime":879.51,"body":"that they're not permanent. This"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":875.88,"endTime":879.51,"body":"is how people learn, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":879.54,"endTime":883.32,"body":"They're not static. These are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":879.54,"endTime":883.32,"body":"the result of neuroplasticity."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":883.74,"endTime":888.24,"body":"He argues that an addicted brain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":883.74,"endTime":888.24,"body":"is operating as a normal brain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":888.36,"endTime":893.07,"body":"based on the input. Okay, so if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":888.36,"endTime":893.07,"body":"you start to seek drugs in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":893.07,"endTime":897.3,"body":"reinforced that food, that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":893.07,"endTime":897.3,"body":"feedback loop, your brain will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.0,"body":"continue to do that you will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.0,"body":"teach it a new trick you have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.69,"body":"Usually a new behavior. But the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":900.0,"endTime":903.69,"body":"consequence is that it does did"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":903.69,"endTime":906.3,"body":"substances do shut down certain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":903.69,"endTime":906.3,"body":"parts, which make it harder and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":906.3,"endTime":909.27,"body":"harder and harder to get off of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":906.3,"endTime":909.27,"body":"the stuff and break that cycle?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":909.3,"endTime":913.08,"body":"Right. But neuroplasticity is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":909.3,"endTime":913.08,"body":"what's happening here, he"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":913.08,"endTime":916.53,"body":"argues, and I agree with him"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":913.08,"endTime":916.53,"body":"that it explains how we become"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":916.56,"endTime":918.99,"body":"addicts in the first place."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":916.56,"endTime":918.99,"body":"Okay, like there are genetic"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":918.99,"endTime":922.23,"body":"markers, some people have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":918.99,"endTime":922.23,"body":"larger propensity to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":922.23,"endTime":924.78,"body":"addicted to drugs, based on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":922.23,"endTime":924.78,"body":"their genetics and environment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":924.84,"endTime":928.65,"body":"in an environment absolutely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":924.84,"endTime":928.65,"body":"plays a role. But as a good"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":928.65,"endTime":932.4,"body":"friend of mine often says,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":928.65,"endTime":932.4,"body":"nature loves the gun and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":932.4,"endTime":934.74,"body":"environment pulls the trigger."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":932.4,"endTime":934.74,"body":"And I would say that your choice"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":934.74,"endTime":937.44,"body":"has pulled the trigger as well."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":934.74,"endTime":937.44,"body":"Sometimes we make choices that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":937.44,"endTime":939.9,"body":"put us in these positions that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":937.44,"endTime":939.9,"body":"sort of release these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":939.9,"endTime":944.55,"body":"propensities for addiction."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":939.9,"endTime":944.55,"body":"That's, that's the gist of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":944.7,"endTime":948.21,"body":"disease concept. Right? So the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":944.7,"endTime":948.21,"body":"brain has been affected. We call"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":948.21,"endTime":952.26,"body":"it a disease because of that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":948.21,"endTime":952.26,"body":"But neuroplasticity is it's an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":952.26,"endTime":956.58,"body":"amazing thing. This explains how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":952.26,"endTime":956.58,"body":"stroke victims recover. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":956.58,"endTime":958.89,"body":"understand that all stroke"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":956.58,"endTime":958.89,"body":"victims recover. But a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":958.89,"endTime":962.25,"body":"them can make recoveries to some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":958.89,"endTime":962.25,"body":"degree. You can, you can shut"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":962.25,"endTime":965.46,"body":"down one area of the brain and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":962.25,"endTime":965.46,"body":"your brain can learn and retrain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":965.46,"endTime":968.34,"body":"itself, to do all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":965.46,"endTime":968.34,"body":"wonderful things, explains how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":968.34,"endTime":970.95,"body":"people can learn how to walk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":968.34,"endTime":970.95,"body":"again. I mean, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":970.95,"endTime":974.37,"body":"incredible what the mind can do."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":970.95,"endTime":974.37,"body":"Yes. And what's crazy is that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":974.37,"endTime":977.73,"body":"the the very thing that we look"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":974.37,"endTime":977.73,"body":"at and say okay, that's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":977.73,"endTime":981.78,"body":"disease, neuroplasticity that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":977.73,"endTime":981.78,"body":"allows that to happen that makes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":981.78,"endTime":984.72,"body":"it possible as the same way that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":981.78,"endTime":984.72,"body":"we get out of it. Exactly. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":984.72,"endTime":987.12,"body":"when I look at the disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":984.72,"endTime":987.12,"body":"concept, I've never looked at it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":987.12,"endTime":990.51,"body":"as I guess I think the way a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":987.12,"endTime":990.51,"body":"a lot of people do when they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":990.51,"endTime":993.66,"body":"look at disease, they think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":990.51,"endTime":993.66,"body":"cancer, leukemia, they think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":993.66,"endTime":998.07,"body":"like the flu, they think like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":993.66,"endTime":998.07,"body":"very common ailments that people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":998.07,"endTime":1001.07,"body":"have, and they think disease,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":998.07,"endTime":1001.07,"body":"this is a little bit different."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1005.06,"body":"It's a disease of the mind. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1005.06,"body":"not exactly the same as cancer,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1008.66,"body":"please stop that narrative. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1008.66,"body":"it is not the same as cancer,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1008.69,"endTime":1012.86,"body":"right? You having an addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1008.69,"endTime":1012.86,"body":"to cocaine, or alcohol is not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1012.86,"endTime":1016.19,"body":"the same as a child with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1012.86,"endTime":1016.19,"body":"leukemia. Yeah, like I've heard"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1016.19,"endTime":1019.01,"body":"that more times, I can count and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1016.19,"endTime":1019.01,"body":"it drives me absolutely bonkers."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1019.28,"endTime":1022.34,"body":"It is not the case is not the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1019.28,"endTime":1022.34,"body":"case, it just falls into that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1022.34,"endTime":1026.24,"body":"same classification, by"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1022.34,"endTime":1026.24,"body":"scientists, a human created"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1026.69,"endTime":1029.3,"body":"definition that this is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1026.69,"endTime":1029.3,"body":"disease. Yeah, so I just want to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1029.3,"endTime":1032.72,"body":"make that clear. But these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1029.3,"endTime":1032.72,"body":"things that occur in the brain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1032.72,"endTime":1035.39,"body":"during addiction are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1032.72,"endTime":1035.39,"body":"necessarily permanent. And the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1035.39,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"brain can recover and adapt in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1035.39,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"response to changes in behavior,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1040.07,"endTime":1043.19,"body":"and environment and Louis's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1040.07,"endTime":1043.19,"body":"perspective. And I would say,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1046.58,"body":"even my perspective challenge,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1043.22,"endTime":1046.58,"body":"the traditional disease model of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1046.58,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"addiction, and it highlights the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1046.58,"endTime":1049.97,"body":"importance of individual choice"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1054.26,"body":"and learning processes in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1054.26,"body":"understanding and addressing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1058.58,"body":"addiction. And like, let's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1054.62,"endTime":1058.58,"body":"back to that disease concept for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1058.58,"endTime":1061.04,"body":"just a moment, when you check"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1058.58,"endTime":1061.04,"body":"into a treatment center or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1061.04,"endTime":1065.27,"body":"whenever spouses or go to their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1061.04,"endTime":1065.27,"body":"family weekends. They're told"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1069.77,"body":"you have a disease, they're your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1069.77,"body":"loved one has a disease, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1069.77,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"don't really go further than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1069.77,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"that and explaining it. They"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1077.27,"body":"want that empathy, because it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1077.27,"body":"does help make recovery easier."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1077.6,"endTime":1080.0,"body":"It makes recovery easier,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1077.6,"endTime":1080.0,"body":"because it's easier to look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1080.0,"endTime":1083.09,"body":"yourself and say, Okay, I've got"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1080.0,"endTime":1083.09,"body":"some compassion for myself. No,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1083.09,"endTime":1086.12,"body":"I'm not a terrible person. I do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1083.09,"endTime":1086.12,"body":"have something going on with me."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1086.24,"endTime":1089.12,"body":"And they're correct in that,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1086.24,"endTime":1089.12,"body":"yes, the correct in that. Right."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1089.12,"endTime":1092.93,"body":"So I think what gets washed out"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1089.12,"endTime":1092.93,"body":"along with that, is the taking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1092.93,"endTime":1095.51,"body":"accountability and what's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1092.93,"endTime":1095.51,"body":"necessary in recovery moving"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1095.51,"endTime":1098.84,"body":"forward, and looking back at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1095.51,"endTime":1098.84,"body":"those behaviors, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1098.84,"endTime":1101.72,"body":"acknowledging them, because our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1098.84,"endTime":1101.72,"body":"behaviors are harmful to other"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1101.72,"endTime":1105.53,"body":"people disease or not. Yes, that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1101.72,"endTime":1105.53,"body":"right there. So we've got to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1107.99,"body":"look at this a little bit"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1105.53,"endTime":1107.99,"body":"differently, right. And I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1107.99,"endTime":1110.87,"body":"that society often operates like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1107.99,"endTime":1110.87,"body":"a swinging pendulum on a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1110.87,"endTime":1114.71,"body":"grandfather. Yeah. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1110.87,"endTime":1114.71,"body":"everyone's grandparents or any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1114.89,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"antiquey type home, you walk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1114.89,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"into his got one of those. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1117.62,"endTime":1120.44,"body":"all know what a pendulum is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1117.62,"endTime":1120.44,"body":"right? swings from one extreme"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"to the other. So at some point"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"in history, they looked at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1123.26,"endTime":1127.01,"body":"alcoholics and addicts and they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1123.26,"endTime":1127.01,"body":"threw us in asylums. They gave"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1127.01,"endTime":1129.83,"body":"us electroshock therapy, all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1127.01,"endTime":1129.83,"body":"kinds of crazy experimental"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1129.83,"endTime":1133.46,"body":"drugs. They went as far as to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1129.83,"endTime":1133.46,"body":"lobotomize people, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1133.46,"endTime":1136.49,"body":"literally sticking an icepick in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1133.46,"endTime":1136.49,"body":"behind your eyeball, and just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1136.49,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"destroying your prefrontal"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1136.49,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"cortex in hopes that it would"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1139.25,"endTime":1141.89,"body":"change behaviors. This is how we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1139.25,"endTime":1141.89,"body":"were used to be treated. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1141.95,"endTime":1144.35,"body":"it was looked at as a moral"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1141.95,"endTime":1144.35,"body":"failing. This is a weak person,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1144.35,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"he can't stay off the booze. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1144.35,"endTime":1148.82,"body":"were outcasts. We were outcasts."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1149.69,"endTime":1152.87,"body":"You know, as education developed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1149.69,"endTime":1152.87,"body":"science developed, we were able"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1152.87,"endTime":1154.79,"body":"to look at different parts of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1152.87,"endTime":1154.79,"body":"the brain study different"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1154.79,"endTime":1157.82,"body":"things, we realized that this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1154.79,"endTime":1157.82,"body":"thing did fit the disease model"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1157.82,"endTime":1160.7,"body":"criteria. And so we went the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1157.82,"endTime":1160.7,"body":"other direction with the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1160.7,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"pendulum. At one point it was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1160.7,"endTime":1163.67,"body":"one extreme and now it's at the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1166.76,"body":"other where it's a disease,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1166.76,"body":"disease disease. And that's all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1166.76,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"we ever hear is that is disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1166.76,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"And like I said, I've already"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1174.11,"body":"explained like why that can be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1174.11,"body":"beneficial. The disease concept"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1174.11,"endTime":1179.42,"body":"was introduced, and basically"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1174.11,"endTime":1179.42,"body":"all choice was removed from the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1179.42,"endTime":1184.22,"body":"equation. And the world started"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1179.42,"endTime":1184.22,"body":"to lose empathy for addicts and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1184.22,"endTime":1187.07,"body":"science scrambled to support"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1184.22,"endTime":1187.07,"body":"addicts with evidence that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1187.07,"endTime":1189.92,"body":"supported the disease concept,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1187.07,"endTime":1189.92,"body":"and drugs that treated"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1194.0,"body":"addiction, like the conversation"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1189.95,"endTime":1194.0,"body":"with scientists with researchers"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1194.0,"endTime":1198.62,"body":"in the field, treatment centers,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1194.0,"endTime":1198.62,"body":"TV, popular rhetoric even and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1198.62,"endTime":1202.64,"body":"even in 12 step meetings. It It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1198.62,"endTime":1202.64,"body":"focused on this disease concept."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1202.64,"endTime":1206.57,"body":"But for me personally, it always"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1202.64,"endTime":1206.57,"body":"felt very disconnected to me."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1210.26,"body":"And I mean this even before I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1207.23,"endTime":1210.26,"body":"was in recovery, like when I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1210.26,"endTime":1212.36,"body":"just a handful of days sober,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1210.26,"endTime":1212.36,"body":"they were telling me I have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1212.36,"endTime":1214.85,"body":"disease, the way they were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1212.36,"endTime":1214.85,"body":"explaining it to me, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1214.85,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"I know what you're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1214.85,"endTime":1217.01,"body":"here. But that's not really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1217.13,"endTime":1220.73,"body":"accurate. Yeah, that hasn't been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1217.13,"endTime":1220.73,"body":"my experience anyway, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1220.73,"endTime":1223.4,"body":"there were certainly times when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1220.73,"endTime":1223.4,"body":"I was using against my will, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1223.4,"endTime":1227.15,"body":"could not stop it. I could not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1223.4,"endTime":1227.15,"body":"control it. Yeah, when I was in,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1227.15,"endTime":1230.63,"body":"like, intense craving mode, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1227.15,"endTime":1230.63,"body":"there were several other hours,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1230.63,"endTime":1234.41,"body":"the day where I wanted to stop,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1230.63,"endTime":1234.41,"body":"I just wasn't ready to stop."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1236.96,"body":"Like, I was like, I'm just gonna"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1234.5,"endTime":1236.96,"body":"keep running this. It's not that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1236.96,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"bad. I normalize the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1236.96,"endTime":1241.22,"body":"dysfunction. I tried to look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"the bright side. And then as"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1241.22,"endTime":1244.28,"body":"soon as I got my drink or drug"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1244.28,"endTime":1247.01,"body":"in me, I forgot about those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1244.28,"endTime":1247.01,"body":"kinds of conversations. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1247.04,"endTime":1249.08,"body":"But they started to happen more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1247.04,"endTime":1249.08,"body":"and more frequently. So that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1249.08,"endTime":1251.84,"body":"literally told me I had a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1249.08,"endTime":1251.84,"body":"disease. I essentially stuck it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1251.84,"endTime":1253.64,"body":"in the bottom drawer. And I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1251.84,"endTime":1253.64,"body":"like, I'll get back to that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1253.64,"endTime":1255.53,"body":"later. Like, I'm taking your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1253.64,"endTime":1255.53,"body":"word for it. I will listen to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1255.53,"endTime":1258.38,"body":"the lectures. I understand what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1255.53,"endTime":1258.38,"body":"you're saying. I totally buy in."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1258.38,"endTime":1262.19,"body":"I get it. But it's not exactly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1258.38,"endTime":1262.19,"body":"the way that you're saying it. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1262.19,"endTime":1265.76,"body":"felt it makes it Yes, yes. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1262.19,"endTime":1265.76,"body":"it sounds off for you. It just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1265.79,"endTime":1269.33,"body":"it always felt off. I felt off"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1265.79,"endTime":1269.33,"body":"to when I said I understood what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1269.33,"endTime":1273.29,"body":"they were saying. But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1269.33,"endTime":1273.29,"body":"don't know. Like, I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1276.2,"body":"you can use it as an excuse."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1273.32,"endTime":1276.2,"body":"Yeah. And I saw the benefit of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1276.2,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"it. And yes, because when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1276.2,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"someone has an addiction, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.24,"body":"there's a lot of guilt and shame"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.24,"body":"that goes with that. And also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1284.24,"endTime":1286.4,"body":"when you tell someone they have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1284.24,"endTime":1286.4,"body":"a disease for a lot of people,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1286.58,"endTime":1289.79,"body":"that's enough for them to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1286.58,"endTime":1289.79,"body":"understand okay, when I choose"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1289.79,"endTime":1292.22,"body":"to use addictive substances,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1289.79,"endTime":1292.22,"body":"this is the behavior that I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1292.22,"endTime":1295.4,"body":"usually this is the behavior"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1292.22,"endTime":1295.4,"body":"pattern that I go through"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1295.88,"endTime":1300.14,"body":"craving, use uncontrollable use"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1295.88,"endTime":1300.14,"body":"consequences. And so it helps"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1300.14,"endTime":1302.66,"body":"them understand that if I choose"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1300.14,"endTime":1302.66,"body":"to pick back up even after I get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1302.66,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"out this treatments that are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1302.66,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"what is likely to happen. That"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1305.36,"endTime":1308.36,"body":"is my disease. Yeah. Okay. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1305.36,"endTime":1308.36,"body":"I get with that, like you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1308.36,"endTime":1310.94,"body":"reactivating these parts of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1308.36,"endTime":1310.94,"body":"brain that have not had a chance"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1310.94,"endTime":1313.43,"body":"to heal and you're, you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1310.94,"endTime":1313.43,"body":"getting back into that mode and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1313.43,"endTime":1315.95,"body":"you're further damaging what's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1313.43,"endTime":1315.95,"body":"already been what's already been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1315.95,"endTime":1319.28,"body":"screwed. Right, right. A quick"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1315.95,"endTime":1319.28,"body":"break in the action to let you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1319.28,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"know about an exciting"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1319.28,"endTime":1321.35,"body":"development in the Tufo"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1321.35,"endTime":1323.87,"body":"universe. When we started this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1321.35,"endTime":1323.87,"body":"thing, we said we would never"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1323.87,"endTime":1326.45,"body":"work with an advertiser or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1323.87,"endTime":1326.45,"body":"company unless it's something"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1326.45,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"that we believed in, and we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1326.45,"endTime":1328.88,"body":"already use."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1331.43,"body":"If you're looking for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1331.43,"body":"professional affordable mental"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1331.43,"endTime":1334.04,"body":"health care, look no further"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1331.43,"endTime":1334.04,"body":"than tailor counseling group"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1334.04,"endTime":1336.74,"body":"your trusted source for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1334.04,"endTime":1336.74,"body":"accessible therapy in Texas."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1337.07,"endTime":1339.59,"body":"Tailor counseling group believes"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1337.07,"endTime":1339.59,"body":"that everyone deserves premium"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1339.59,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"mental health care regardless of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1339.59,"endTime":1342.47,"body":"their income level. That's why"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1342.47,"endTime":1345.02,"body":"they offer reliable and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1342.47,"endTime":1345.02,"body":"affordable services at 12"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1345.02,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"locations across Texas. They've"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1345.02,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"made affordability a priority."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1348.8,"endTime":1351.53,"body":"They are in network with most"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1348.8,"endTime":1351.53,"body":"major insurance and the standard"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1351.53,"endTime":1355.4,"body":"private rate is only $100 per"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1351.53,"endTime":1355.4,"body":"session significantly lower than"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1355.4,"endTime":1358.61,"body":"many other practices offering"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1355.4,"endTime":1358.61,"body":"the same high quality therapy."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1358.91,"endTime":1361.04,"body":"They believe that getting the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1358.91,"endTime":1361.04,"body":"help you need shouldn't drain"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1361.04,"endTime":1364.13,"body":"your wallet. scheduling an"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1361.04,"endTime":1364.13,"body":"appointment is quick and easy"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1364.13,"endTime":1367.01,"body":"with their convenient online"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1364.13,"endTime":1367.01,"body":"booking tool. 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Tailored"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1396.62,"endTime":1399.38,"body":"counseling group is your partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1396.62,"endTime":1399.38,"body":"on the path of mental wellness"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1399.44,"endTime":1402.05,"body":"experienced professional"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1399.44,"endTime":1402.05,"body":"affordable care that puts you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1402.05,"endTime":1406.07,"body":"first visit their website,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1402.05,"endTime":1406.07,"body":"tailor counseling group.com or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1406.07,"endTime":1408.41,"body":"call them today to schedule an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1406.07,"endTime":1408.41,"body":"appointment and tell them to fo"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1408.41,"endTime":1411.08,"body":"couple sent you a link and phone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1408.41,"endTime":1411.08,"body":"number is going to be available"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1411.08,"endTime":1415.13,"body":"in the show notes. And back to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1411.08,"endTime":1415.13,"body":"the action. The other part of it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1415.13,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"is I've seen people use this the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1415.13,"endTime":1418.55,"body":"wrong way, which is I have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1418.55,"endTime":1421.79,"body":"disease therefore can't win"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1418.55,"endTime":1421.79,"body":"don't try. And they just sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1421.79,"endTime":1424.58,"body":"give up and they use it as an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1421.79,"endTime":1424.58,"body":"excuse to relapse and make poor"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1424.58,"endTime":1427.25,"body":"choices, right? consciously make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1424.58,"endTime":1427.25,"body":"poor choices. Or they'll"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1427.25,"endTime":1430.22,"body":"say that my behavior is"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1427.25,"endTime":1430.22,"body":"like this because I have a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1430.22,"endTime":1432.98,"body":"disease, I treat you how I treat"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1430.22,"endTime":1432.98,"body":"you because I have a disease."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1433.01,"endTime":1435.92,"body":"And that's kind of sucks for the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1433.01,"endTime":1435.92,"body":"other person."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1436.19,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"Yeah. And I just inside I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1436.19,"endTime":1439.4,"body":"never bought into absolving"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1446.33,"body":"myself of all my mistakes for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1439.4,"endTime":1446.33,"body":"this disease. And I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1446.33,"endTime":1449.06,"body":"like I think that if you say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1446.33,"endTime":1449.06,"body":"otherwise, you're ostracized,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1449.06,"endTime":1452.51,"body":"and you're leper, and people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1449.06,"endTime":1452.51,"body":"jump on you. But so be it. The"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1452.51,"endTime":1454.52,"body":"first guy through the wall"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1452.51,"endTime":1454.52,"body":"always gets bloody. I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1454.52,"endTime":1457.37,"body":"mean, I don't mind being the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1454.52,"endTime":1457.37,"body":"first guy. I don't mind. Like I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1457.37,"endTime":1460.13,"body":"will say, Yeah, scientifically,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1457.37,"endTime":1460.13,"body":"it's a disease. But there's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1460.13,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"really more going on than that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1460.13,"endTime":1462.53,"body":"Like, there are some caveats"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1466.28,"body":"here that we all need to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1462.53,"endTime":1466.28,"body":"understand. So if I've, if I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1466.28,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"completely upset you, just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1466.28,"endTime":1469.49,"body":"listen, just stay with me for a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"moment. Like we'll get to the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1469.49,"endTime":1471.35,"body":"part where this all starts to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1474.98,"body":"make sense. But I think there's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1471.35,"endTime":1474.98,"body":"some truth to that there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1475.01,"endTime":1477.02,"body":"there's a lot of research to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1475.01,"endTime":1477.02,"body":"support that there are people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1477.02,"endTime":1479.09,"body":"much smarter than me that have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1477.02,"endTime":1479.09,"body":"studied this much harder and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1479.09,"endTime":1481.76,"body":"they support it. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1479.09,"endTime":1481.76,"body":"there's something to this even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1481.76,"endTime":1485.33,"body":"though it's goes it flies in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1481.76,"endTime":1485.33,"body":"face of what's, you know, what's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1485.33,"endTime":1489.05,"body":"popular these days. So I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1485.33,"endTime":1489.05,"body":"understand also how this can be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1489.05,"endTime":1492.17,"body":"too much for someone in early"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1489.05,"endTime":1492.17,"body":"recovery to begin to challenge"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1492.17,"endTime":1495.29,"body":"this like I do like I can see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1492.17,"endTime":1495.29,"body":"that it could possibly do more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1495.29,"endTime":1500.96,"body":"harm than good at some point for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1495.29,"endTime":1500.96,"body":"you to under stand that maybe I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1500.96,"endTime":1504.44,"body":"am responsible for some of this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1500.96,"endTime":1504.44,"body":"stuff, like the shame and the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1504.44,"endTime":1507.47,"body":"guilt that comes along with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1504.44,"endTime":1507.47,"body":"that, like I get it that could"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1507.47,"endTime":1509.72,"body":"possibly be dangerous to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1507.47,"endTime":1509.72,"body":"someone's recovery that has a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1509.72,"endTime":1513.35,"body":"very, very fragile state of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1509.72,"endTime":1513.35,"body":"recovery. But I'm just this is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1513.35,"endTime":1516.11,"body":"my perspective on it. And this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1513.35,"endTime":1516.11,"body":"is what, what I've read and what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1516.11,"endTime":1518.51,"body":"I've researched. And this is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1516.11,"endTime":1518.51,"body":"what it shows that we can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1518.51,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"excuse all of our abusive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1518.51,"endTime":1522.02,"body":"behavior for this disease. It is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1522.05,"endTime":1524.75,"body":"it cannot be the ultimate cop"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1522.05,"endTime":1524.75,"body":"out, right. And I think that was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1524.75,"endTime":1527.63,"body":"my first step in sort of making"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1524.75,"endTime":1527.63,"body":"things right with my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1527.63,"endTime":1531.29,"body":"relationship and with the world."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1527.63,"endTime":1531.29,"body":"Because if I didn't focus on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1531.29,"endTime":1533.45,"body":"those things, and own those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1531.29,"endTime":1533.45,"body":"things, guess what, like, when I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1533.45,"endTime":1536.0,"body":"removed the drugs and alcohol, a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1533.45,"endTime":1536.0,"body":"lot of those behaviors were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1536.0,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"still there. Yeah, they were in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1536.0,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"me regardless. Right? Years"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1544.34,"body":"later, okay. Disease. No, not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1544.34,"body":"anymore. Yeah. So what's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1544.34,"endTime":1546.89,"body":"excuse for that? Right? Like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1544.34,"endTime":1546.89,"body":"I've just got some wiring in me,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1546.89,"endTime":1549.35,"body":"I need to fix Yeah. So if you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1546.89,"endTime":1549.35,"body":"don't, if you don't concentrate"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1549.35,"endTime":1551.21,"body":"on those things, they will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1549.35,"endTime":1551.21,"body":"repeat themselves to some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1551.21,"endTime":1553.61,"body":"degree, maybe not all the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1551.21,"endTime":1553.61,"body":"behaviors, but certainly some of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1553.61,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"them will, they will pop up. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1553.61,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"then let's get into the case of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1557.6,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"it's not a disease is that a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1557.6,"endTime":1560.96,"body":"choice? I don't believe that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"it's purely a disease. Nor do I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1560.96,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"believe it is purely a choice. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1568.16,"body":"think that sort of nuanced, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1568.16,"body":"it's in between the two. In"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1568.19,"endTime":1571.73,"body":"biology of desire, they actually"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1568.19,"endTime":1571.73,"body":"get into this and the author is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1571.88,"endTime":1574.94,"body":"very much agrees with us that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1571.88,"endTime":1574.94,"body":"it's not necessarily purely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1574.94,"endTime":1578.36,"body":"disease, nor is it purely a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1574.94,"endTime":1578.36,"body":"choice. So you can't just say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1578.36,"endTime":1581.27,"body":"it's choice. Recovery is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1578.36,"endTime":1581.27,"body":"choice, I do believe that that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1581.27,"endTime":1583.88,"body":"purely choice, you can do that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1581.27,"endTime":1583.88,"body":"against your will even in it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1583.88,"endTime":1589.07,"body":"will work. But addiction choice,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1583.88,"endTime":1589.07,"body":"disease choice, like it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1589.13,"endTime":1593.3,"body":"it's not so clear, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1589.13,"endTime":1593.3,"body":"to sit here and say that, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1593.3,"endTime":1596.81,"body":"can stop anytime you want, that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1593.3,"endTime":1596.81,"body":"it's really easy to stop, just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1599.9,"body":"put down the bottle like I know,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1599.9,"body":"it's difficult. I know that for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1599.9,"endTime":1602.51,"body":"the same reasons we described,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1599.9,"endTime":1602.51,"body":"all those systems in your brain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1602.51,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"are affected. Like those systems"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1602.51,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"also deal with choice and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1606.05,"endTime":1610.4,"body":"learning, habit formation, loss"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1606.05,"endTime":1610.4,"body":"of control personal agency, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1610.43,"endTime":1614.57,"body":"these things deal a bit with the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1610.43,"endTime":1614.57,"body":"biology of the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1614.57,"endTime":1617.75,"body":"have physically changed parts of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1614.57,"endTime":1617.75,"body":"your brain. But I think that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1617.75,"endTime":1621.35,"body":"would be wrong to say that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1617.75,"endTime":1621.35,"body":"don't have some personal agency"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1621.35,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"and some choice left in us. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1621.35,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"even addicted people make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1624.8,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"choices every day. They do they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1624.8,"endTime":1628.43,"body":"make choices to go to work."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1632.57,"body":"Exactly. They make choices to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1628.43,"endTime":1632.57,"body":"pay bills, they make choices to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1633.29,"endTime":1639.86,"body":"I don't know, like coach teams"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1633.29,"endTime":1639.86,"body":"like for their lives. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1639.98,"endTime":1642.5,"body":"yeah, like we make choices"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1639.98,"endTime":1642.5,"body":"still. So you're telling me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1642.5,"endTime":1645.02,"body":"that, okay, but I thought we had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1642.5,"endTime":1645.02,"body":"a disease? Shouldn't all the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1645.02,"endTime":1648.02,"body":"systems be affected? Like the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1645.02,"endTime":1648.02,"body":"ones that are convenient,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1648.47,"endTime":1651.32,"body":"seemingly are are affected in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1648.47,"endTime":1651.32,"body":"the ones that aren't aren't just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1651.32,"endTime":1654.23,"body":"doesn't make sense to me. So I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1651.32,"endTime":1654.23,"body":"think that we have to look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1654.23,"endTime":1658.01,"body":"our personal agency, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1654.23,"endTime":1658.01,"body":"determine, Okay, I do have some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1658.01,"endTime":1661.04,"body":"choice in this matter. Now,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1658.01,"endTime":1661.04,"body":"understanding that it is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1661.04,"endTime":1664.1,"body":"compulsion, it is an impulse to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1661.04,"endTime":1664.1,"body":"use at some point when that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1664.1,"endTime":1667.82,"body":"craving hits like it, you can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1664.1,"endTime":1667.82,"body":"really control it can't it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1667.82,"endTime":1671.48,"body":"going to happen. But there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1667.82,"endTime":1671.48,"body":"periods in the day in between"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1671.48,"endTime":1675.65,"body":"that when we have agency. This"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1671.48,"endTime":1675.65,"body":"is how I recovered. Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1675.65,"endTime":1679.04,"body":"know. And so my issue with this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1675.65,"endTime":1679.04,"body":"whole argument about the disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1679.04,"endTime":1682.19,"body":"or choice has always been what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1679.04,"endTime":1682.19,"body":"I've learned about the disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1684.98,"body":"model through treatment centers,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1682.19,"endTime":1684.98,"body":"and through 12 Step groups and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1684.98,"endTime":1688.7,"body":"through, you know, the treatment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1684.98,"endTime":1688.7,"body":"community and recovery community"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1688.7,"endTime":1692.81,"body":"has been vastly different to my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1688.7,"endTime":1692.81,"body":"actual experience of recovery,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1693.17,"endTime":1698.15,"body":"like my subjective experience,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1693.17,"endTime":1698.15,"body":"and what science tells me, don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1698.18,"endTime":1701.18,"body":"necessarily, they're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1698.18,"endTime":1701.18,"body":"congruent, they don't make a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1701.18,"endTime":1704.63,"body":"of sense. And so I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1701.18,"endTime":1704.63,"body":"there's a middle ground where"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1704.63,"endTime":1707.39,"body":"they can get along, like the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1704.63,"endTime":1707.39,"body":"subjective experience of not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1707.39,"endTime":1710.93,"body":"just me, but other people that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1707.39,"endTime":1710.93,"body":"have recovered. And this disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1710.93,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"concept and what science tells"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1710.93,"endTime":1714.77,"body":"us about the disease. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1714.77,"endTime":1716.96,"body":"there are solutions. I think,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1714.77,"endTime":1716.96,"body":"like we mentioned that back in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1716.96,"endTime":1720.71,"body":"the beginning, like that's one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1716.96,"endTime":1720.71,"body":"of the most frustrating things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1720.71,"endTime":1723.83,"body":"about addiction and loving"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1720.71,"endTime":1723.83,"body":"someone in addiction is that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1723.83,"endTime":1727.25,"body":"there there is a solution. There"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1723.83,"endTime":1727.25,"body":"are solutions, right? I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1727.25,"endTime":1729.89,"body":"say there is one solution,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1727.25,"endTime":1729.89,"body":"right? There are multiple"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1729.89,"endTime":1733.04,"body":"options. There are solutions,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1729.89,"endTime":1733.04,"body":"right? Like some people quit on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1733.04,"endTime":1737.48,"body":"their own this happens. I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1733.04,"endTime":1737.48,"body":"personally know anyone, but I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1737.48,"endTime":1739.55,"body":"read the stories of many people."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1737.48,"endTime":1739.55,"body":"And I've heard the stories of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1739.55,"endTime":1742.97,"body":"people that have quit on their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1739.55,"endTime":1742.97,"body":"own successfully, like people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1742.97,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"who were badly addicted, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1742.97,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"quit on their own. I don't want"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1749.0,"body":"anyone getting any bright ideas."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1749.0,"body":"Say that's, that's dangerous."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1749.03,"endTime":1752.51,"body":"Yeah. Crazy, bright ideas,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1749.03,"endTime":1752.51,"body":"because they're there. There are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1752.51,"endTime":1757.46,"body":"better ways to go about it. When"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1752.51,"endTime":1757.46,"body":"you ask for help. Like, I read"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1757.46,"endTime":1762.14,"body":"this book called who not how,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1757.46,"endTime":1762.14,"body":"and it basically implores people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1762.14,"endTime":1765.8,"body":"to stop trying to be experts at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1762.14,"endTime":1765.8,"body":"everything and just find the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1765.8,"endTime":1768.95,"body":"people who are experts and get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1765.8,"endTime":1768.95,"body":"their help. It makes life much"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1768.95,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"simpler, much, much simpler,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1768.95,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"like you can delegate this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1774.47,"body":"stuff, right, right. But anyway,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1774.47,"body":"some code on their own science"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1774.47,"endTime":1777.32,"body":"has solutions, the Sinclair"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1774.47,"endTime":1777.32,"body":"method is becoming more and more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1777.32,"endTime":1781.31,"body":"popular, which is the use of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1777.32,"endTime":1781.31,"body":"drug Vivitrol in addition to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1785.06,"body":"cognitive therapy, where you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1781.31,"endTime":1785.06,"body":"take this drug and then you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1785.06,"endTime":1788.45,"body":"drink with it, and it removes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1785.06,"endTime":1788.45,"body":"all the feel good chemicals from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1788.45,"endTime":1792.98,"body":"drinking. So over time you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1788.45,"endTime":1792.98,"body":"associate less and less drinking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1792.98,"endTime":1795.65,"body":"with pleasure, to the point"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1792.98,"endTime":1795.65,"body":"where you realize you don't need"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1795.65,"endTime":1798.89,"body":"it anymore helps people stop it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1795.65,"endTime":1798.89,"body":"They've actually shown some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1798.89,"endTime":1802.76,"body":"really, really great Numbers"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1798.89,"endTime":1802.76,"body":"have success with this. There's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1802.76,"endTime":1805.49,"body":"also anti abuse which is a drug"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1802.76,"endTime":1805.49,"body":"that if you take it like I gave"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1805.49,"endTime":1808.94,"body":"you the shot and you drink, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1805.49,"endTime":1808.94,"body":"get violently ill, right like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1808.94,"endTime":1811.55,"body":"just start puking everywhere,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1808.94,"endTime":1811.55,"body":"which is another like negative"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1811.55,"endTime":1813.89,"body":"reinforcement cue to the brain."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1817.25,"body":"But it's good to do this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1817.25,"body":"with therapy. Absolutely. It's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1817.25,"endTime":1820.94,"body":"very similar to like whenever I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1817.25,"endTime":1820.94,"body":"was depressed and I had anxiety,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1820.94,"endTime":1825.98,"body":"I took medication, with therapy"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1820.94,"endTime":1825.98,"body":"with the thought of I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1825.98,"endTime":1830.18,"body":"get off this medication. As soon"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1825.98,"endTime":1830.18,"body":"as I learned more coping"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1830.36,"endTime":1833.0,"body":"mechanisms that absolutely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1830.36,"endTime":1833.0,"body":"like like we are big believers"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1833.0,"endTime":1834.05,"body":"in skills before pill."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1834.08,"endTime":1836.24,"body":"That's why the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1834.08,"endTime":1836.24,"body":"neuroplasticity was huge for me"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1836.24,"endTime":1839.21,"body":"in my personal experience with"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1836.24,"endTime":1839.21,"body":"my mental health, it's like that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1839.21,"endTime":1841.46,"body":"worked for me to not just"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1839.21,"endTime":1841.46,"body":"addiction."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1841.49,"endTime":1844.13,"body":"Yeah, yeah. And they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1841.49,"endTime":1844.13,"body":"like, we've all heard of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1844.13,"endTime":1847.73,"body":"programs available. There are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1844.13,"endTime":1847.73,"body":"many programs, there's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1847.76,"endTime":1851.9,"body":"plethora of 12 Step programs,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1847.76,"endTime":1851.9,"body":"you know, about AAA and NA, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1851.9,"endTime":1854.54,"body":"there's, it gets even more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1851.9,"endTime":1854.54,"body":"nuanced than that. There's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1854.57,"endTime":1856.7,"body":"cocaine Addicts Anonymous."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1854.57,"endTime":1856.7,"body":"There's opiate addicts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1856.7,"endTime":1859.16,"body":"anonymous. There's even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1856.7,"endTime":1859.16,"body":"Overeaters Anonymous, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1859.16,"endTime":1861.65,"body":"there's gamblers anonymous Sex"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1859.16,"endTime":1861.65,"body":"Addicts Anonymous, like there"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1865.7,"body":"are 12 Step groups for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1861.83,"endTime":1865.7,"body":"basically, you name it, it's out"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1865.7,"endTime":1871.04,"body":"there, but there are also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1865.7,"endTime":1871.04,"body":"various, so those are 12 Step"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1871.07,"endTime":1873.35,"body":"groups that are based in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1871.07,"endTime":1873.35,"body":"spirituality. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1873.35,"endTime":1877.25,"body":"people have an issue with that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1873.35,"endTime":1877.25,"body":"There are also other secular"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1877.25,"endTime":1880.16,"body":"forms of recovery, rational"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1877.25,"endTime":1880.16,"body":"recovery, Rational Emotive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1880.16,"endTime":1884.18,"body":"therapy, Smart Recovery life"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1880.16,"endTime":1884.18,"body":"ring. And then you've got like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1884.48,"endTime":1887.33,"body":"there's, there's a Buddhist form"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1884.48,"endTime":1887.33,"body":"of recovery called refuge"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1887.33,"endTime":1890.57,"body":"recovery, which is incredible."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1887.33,"endTime":1890.57,"body":"Noah Levine wrote a book about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.6,"body":"this. It's called refuge"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1890.6,"endTime":1893.6,"body":"recovery. It's incredible. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1893.6,"endTime":1896.03,"body":"you like an Eastern perspective"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1893.6,"endTime":1896.03,"body":"on some of this stuff, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1896.03,"endTime":1899.57,"body":"really, really good. Celebrate"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1896.03,"endTime":1899.57,"body":"Recovery, which is more of a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1899.57,"endTime":1903.11,"body":"religious base. It's done a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1899.57,"endTime":1903.11,"body":"in Christian churches. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1903.11,"endTime":1905.9,"body":"there are options, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1903.11,"endTime":1905.9,"body":"That's, and there's also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1905.9,"endTime":1908.57,"body":"personalized programs like you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1905.9,"endTime":1908.57,"body":"can Google Online, and you can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1908.57,"endTime":1911.69,"body":"find some guy who recovered on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1908.57,"endTime":1911.69,"body":"his own. And he wrote a program"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1911.69,"endTime":1914.57,"body":"for like brain process. Like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1911.69,"endTime":1914.57,"body":"there's like sober coaches and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1914.57,"endTime":1916.7,"body":"stuff. Like there's all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1914.57,"endTime":1916.7,"body":"stuff like that the fact of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1916.7,"endTime":1920.69,"body":"matter is that there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1916.7,"endTime":1920.69,"body":"solutions. AAA is the most"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1920.69,"endTime":1923.99,"body":"popular and I have a theory is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1920.69,"endTime":1923.99,"body":"why. First of all, it was a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1924.02,"endTime":1927.86,"body":"first one really around the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1924.02,"endTime":1927.86,"body":"Oxford group predated AAA. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1928.22,"endTime":1930.92,"body":"AAA became the most popular"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1928.22,"endTime":1930.92,"body":"because it didn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1931.25,"endTime":1934.97,"body":"choose like one central"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1931.25,"endTime":1934.97,"body":"spiritual solution. Like it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1934.97,"endTime":1937.1,"body":"wasn't a Christian based"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1934.97,"endTime":1937.1,"body":"program, it was just generally"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1937.1,"endTime":1940.1,"body":"spiritual power greater than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1937.1,"endTime":1940.1,"body":"you. Yeah. And that was that was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1940.1,"endTime":1942.77,"body":"big for people. That honestly,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1940.1,"endTime":1942.77,"body":"that's the only reason I stuck"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1942.77,"endTime":1947.63,"body":"around. Yeah, was because it was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1942.77,"endTime":1947.63,"body":"I was kind of able to, to use my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1947.63,"endTime":1951.95,"body":"foundations of spirituality, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1947.63,"endTime":1951.95,"body":"apply those to recovery. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1952.79,"endTime":1956.45,"body":"it's been around since the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1952.79,"endTime":1956.45,"body":"1930s. It's free, which is huge."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1956.6,"endTime":1959.66,"body":"And it's widely available, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1956.6,"endTime":1959.66,"body":"all over the place. So a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1959.66,"endTime":1963.44,"body":"times people will go told go to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1959.66,"endTime":1963.44,"body":"AAA, go to AAA, and they'll say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1963.47,"endTime":1965.87,"body":"that won't work for me, or that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1963.47,"endTime":1965.87,"body":"doesn't work for me. I've tried"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1965.87,"endTime":1969.5,"body":"it and it didn't work for me."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1965.87,"endTime":1969.5,"body":"And I'd have to say that if you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1969.5,"endTime":1971.57,"body":"believe that something won't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1969.5,"endTime":1971.57,"body":"work for you. Regardless if it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1971.6,"endTime":1973.97,"body":"AAA or any of these others we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1971.6,"endTime":1973.97,"body":"mentioned, I would say that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1973.97,"endTime":1976.73,"body":"you're right. Like, It's like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1973.97,"endTime":1976.73,"body":"that old notion that if you say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1976.73,"endTime":1980.3,"body":"you can or you can't, you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1976.73,"endTime":1980.3,"body":"correct. It's sort of like this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1980.36,"endTime":1984.44,"body":"self fulfilling prophecy. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1980.36,"endTime":1984.44,"body":"would like the most frustrating"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1984.44,"endTime":1986.57,"body":"thing I've ever heard from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1984.44,"endTime":1986.57,"body":"someone is I can't do that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1986.6,"endTime":1990.8,"body":"Yeah, the word can't drives me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1986.6,"endTime":1990.8,"body":"absolutely nuts. Like, tell me,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1991.22,"endTime":1994.58,"body":"tell me you're not ready. Tell"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1991.22,"endTime":1994.58,"body":"me that. Just be honest, I'm too"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1998.78,"body":"stubborn to listen, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1998.78,"body":"going to do this. Say that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1998.78,"endTime":2001.3,"body":"won't do it. But don't tell me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1998.78,"endTime":2001.3,"body":"that you can't do it. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2001.3,"endTime":2005.5,"body":"self defeating. Yeah, you can."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2001.3,"endTime":2005.5,"body":"And I believe that addiction can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2005.5,"endTime":2008.32,"body":"be overcome. In many ways."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2005.5,"endTime":2008.32,"body":"There's not one right way to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2008.32,"endTime":2011.65,"body":"recover. But you have to pick"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2008.32,"endTime":2011.65,"body":"something, you have to get the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2011.65,"endTime":2015.22,"body":"work. And you have to make the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2011.65,"endTime":2015.22,"body":"choice. Here we come back to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2015.22,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"choice, you have to make a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2015.22,"endTime":2019.09,"body":"choice. Addiction may be a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2022.57,"body":"disease, but it's been my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2019.09,"endTime":2022.57,"body":"experience that recovery is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2022.57,"endTime":2026.68,"body":"choice. Regardless of the method"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2022.57,"endTime":2026.68,"body":"that you choose. To overcome"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2026.68,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"this, new behaviors must be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2026.68,"endTime":2030.52,"body":"learned, new neural pathways"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2033.64,"body":"must be created, environmental"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2030.52,"endTime":2033.64,"body":"changes must take place."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2033.97,"endTime":2037.3,"body":"Mindfulness and cognitive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2033.97,"endTime":2037.3,"body":"strategies have to be formed,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2037.66,"endTime":2040.03,"body":"self development must be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2037.66,"endTime":2040.03,"body":"prioritized. And you're going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2040.03,"endTime":2042.31,"body":"have to have some kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2040.03,"endTime":2042.31,"body":"community to some degree people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2042.31,"endTime":2045.61,"body":"that you can talk to about this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2042.31,"endTime":2045.61,"body":"sort of thing, in nearly every"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2045.61,"endTime":2049.39,"body":"single way that we just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2045.61,"endTime":2049.39,"body":"discussed, has some if not all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2049.39,"endTime":2052.9,"body":"of these factors. And it's it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2049.39,"endTime":2052.9,"body":"crucial, it's crucial to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2056.74,"body":"recovery. So there is more than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2052.9,"endTime":2056.74,"body":"one way to recover. So now that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2056.74,"endTime":2060.67,"body":"we've got the disease the choice"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2056.74,"endTime":2060.67,"body":"out of the way, which I think is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2060.67,"endTime":2063.55,"body":"helpful for people if you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2060.67,"endTime":2063.55,"body":"Yeah, like just don't know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2063.55,"endTime":2067.18,"body":"anything about this, that's some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2063.55,"endTime":2067.18,"body":"background on this. Okay. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2067.21,"endTime":2070.84,"body":"that's our perspective on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2067.21,"endTime":2070.84,"body":"disease concept, the choice how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2070.84,"endTime":2073.96,"body":"you how you go about recovery,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2070.84,"endTime":2073.96,"body":"because we're not I'm not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2073.96,"endTime":2077.53,"body":"recovery coach, like I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2073.96,"endTime":2077.53,"body":"coach people in recovery. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2077.53,"endTime":2081.55,"body":"like my personal thing. I work"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2077.53,"endTime":2081.55,"body":"on my own. I can certainly talk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2081.55,"endTime":2083.86,"body":"to someone and give them reasons"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2081.55,"endTime":2083.86,"body":"to recover I can give them my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2083.86,"endTime":2087.37,"body":"experience inspire them, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2083.86,"endTime":2087.37,"body":"like the day to day work, not so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2087.37,"endTime":2091.63,"body":"much. So I just wanted to leave"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2087.37,"endTime":2091.63,"body":"it at that and let people take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2091.63,"endTime":2095.83,"body":"what they want from that. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2091.63,"endTime":2095.83,"body":"back to the the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2095.83,"endTime":2097.96,"body":"this and we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2095.83,"endTime":2097.96,"body":"what this episode is really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2097.96,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"about which is about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2097.96,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"accountability and value."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"sedation. So is simply stopping"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2105.88,"body":"the substance enough? No, just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2105.88,"endTime":2110.08,"body":"shortly. No, that is my response"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2105.88,"endTime":2110.08,"body":"to that. No, it's not. It's not."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2110.11,"endTime":2113.47,"body":"It's been my experience watching"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2110.11,"endTime":2113.47,"body":"this. And countless people and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2113.47,"endTime":2116.53,"body":"in my own experience prior to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2113.47,"endTime":2116.53,"body":"really getting serious about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2116.53,"endTime":2120.91,"body":"recovery is that when you took"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2116.53,"endTime":2120.91,"body":"away my substance, I got pretty"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2120.91,"endTime":2124.6,"body":"miserable, right? Not just like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2120.91,"endTime":2124.6,"body":"physically, but mentally and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2124.6,"endTime":2127.63,"body":"emotionally, it's like taking a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2124.6,"endTime":2127.63,"body":"baby's pacifier from them. Yep."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2127.72,"endTime":2130.72,"body":"Like I just, I was angry at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2127.72,"endTime":2130.72,"body":"everything. It's like simply"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2130.72,"endTime":2133.99,"body":"stopping the substance and not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2130.72,"endTime":2133.99,"body":"working on the underlying issues"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2133.99,"endTime":2137.98,"body":"is a classic example of not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2133.99,"endTime":2137.98,"body":"understanding cause and effect."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2138.46,"endTime":2143.68,"body":"And since we're on this, cause"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2138.46,"endTime":2143.68,"body":"and effect thing, this is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2143.68,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"something that I see a lot. I'll"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2143.68,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"talk to people in recovery, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2148.96,"body":"there's probably someone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2148.96,"body":"listening now, who has said this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2154.06,"body":"to their spouse or partner, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2154.06,"body":"drink because of XYZ. It could"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2154.06,"endTime":2159.13,"body":"be you name, it could be my job."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2154.06,"endTime":2159.13,"body":"It could be because my wife is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2159.28,"endTime":2163.09,"body":"mean, and she's cruel. And she's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2159.28,"endTime":2163.09,"body":"demanding and hateful. It could"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2163.09,"endTime":2165.31,"body":"be that I've got a lot of stuff"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2163.09,"endTime":2165.31,"body":"going on. It could be that I had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2165.31,"endTime":2168.76,"body":"trauma in my past. It could be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2165.31,"endTime":2168.76,"body":"all kinds of reasons, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2168.76,"endTime":2172.0,"body":"There's a million reasons why"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2168.76,"endTime":2172.0,"body":"people drink a lot of addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2172.0,"endTime":2178.15,"body":"is is, I would say not Well, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2172.0,"endTime":2178.15,"body":"don't want to put it that way. A"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2178.15,"endTime":2180.7,"body":"lot of addicted people have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2178.15,"endTime":2180.7,"body":"trauma, we just say that they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2180.7,"endTime":2182.29,"body":"have trauma at some point in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2180.7,"endTime":2182.29,"body":"their past."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2183.19,"endTime":2185.32,"body":"So they use it to numb by"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2183.19,"endTime":2185.32,"body":"emotions"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2185.35,"endTime":2188.35,"body":"to cope to numb. For some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2185.35,"endTime":2188.35,"body":"others, though, it's no more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2188.35,"endTime":2191.02,"body":"complicated, and they just liked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2188.35,"endTime":2191.02,"body":"an altered state. It messed up."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2191.05,"endTime":2194.11,"body":"I like to be messed up, man."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2191.05,"endTime":2194.11,"body":"It's just mine was more like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2194.11,"endTime":2196.03,"body":"stress related. Like I didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2194.11,"endTime":2196.03,"body":"know how to handle stress,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2196.03,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"because I was a control freak."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2196.03,"endTime":2199.15,"body":"Yeah. And if everyone was just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2199.15,"endTime":2201.64,"body":"doing exactly what I needed them"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2199.15,"endTime":2201.64,"body":"to do at any given time, life"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2201.64,"endTime":2205.15,"body":"was perfect. But the moment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2201.64,"endTime":2205.15,"body":"people veered from my script, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2205.15,"endTime":2209.77,"body":"got angry, and anxious. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2205.15,"endTime":2209.77,"body":"got stressed and yeah, and all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2209.77,"endTime":2212.38,"body":"kinds of issues. But anyway,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2209.77,"endTime":2212.38,"body":"there's, there's this issue of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2212.38,"endTime":2216.64,"body":"cause and effect. And I'm just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2212.38,"endTime":2216.64,"body":"going to say, think of it like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2216.64,"endTime":2219.85,"body":"this. Okay, let's say that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2216.64,"endTime":2219.85,"body":"claim that you drink or use"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2219.85,"endTime":2223.93,"body":"pills, because your home life is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2219.85,"endTime":2223.93,"body":"intolerable. And you're telling"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2223.93,"endTime":2227.62,"body":"what you perceive to be the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2223.93,"endTime":2227.62,"body":"truth that you're, your wife or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2227.62,"endTime":2231.67,"body":"husband is withdrawn from you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2227.62,"endTime":2231.67,"body":"They're unresponsive, they make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2231.7,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"caustic comments toward you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2231.7,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"They're, they're they're mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2240.46,"body":"they're belittling, they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2240.46,"body":"critical. Your children don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2240.46,"endTime":2244.87,"body":"treat you with respect. And you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2240.46,"endTime":2244.87,"body":"believe that that emotional"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2244.87,"endTime":2250.69,"body":"torture is what causes you to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2244.87,"endTime":2250.69,"body":"use drugs. But that is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2250.72,"endTime":2256.24,"body":"misunderstanding of cause and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2250.72,"endTime":2256.24,"body":"effect. Oftentimes, the reason"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2256.24,"endTime":2258.55,"body":"that these people are like this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2256.24,"endTime":2258.55,"body":"is because you use drugs and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2258.55,"endTime":2262.48,"body":"alcohol. And because when you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2258.55,"endTime":2262.48,"body":"use drugs and alcohol, you are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2262.48,"endTime":2265.9,"body":"withdrawn from them, you lie to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2262.48,"endTime":2265.9,"body":"them, you abuse them"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2265.9,"endTime":2270.13,"body":"emotionally, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2265.9,"endTime":2270.13,"body":"physically. You you lie, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2270.13,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"cheat, you do all these things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2270.13,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"that put them in that position."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2273.55,"endTime":2277.18,"body":"Yeah, but it's quick for, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2273.55,"endTime":2277.18,"body":"addicts have a form of dyslexia"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2277.21,"endTime":2279.61,"body":"like dyslexia, we all know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2277.21,"endTime":2279.61,"body":"dyslexia is right, see the word"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2279.61,"endTime":2283.57,"body":"cat, you see TAC instead PAC,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2279.61,"endTime":2283.57,"body":"it's very much the same when it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2283.57,"endTime":2286.75,"body":"comes to cause and effect. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2283.57,"endTime":2286.75,"body":"think the cause of our problems"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2287.47,"endTime":2290.71,"body":"is the outside world when the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2287.47,"endTime":2290.71,"body":"fact that matter is the outside"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2290.71,"endTime":2294.37,"body":"world acts as a response to our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2290.71,"endTime":2294.37,"body":"behaviors. Most of the time,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2294.37,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"like, maybe your children don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2294.37,"endTime":2297.4,"body":"respect you, but it's because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2300.52,"body":"they've seen you hitting their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2297.4,"endTime":2300.52,"body":"mothers are screaming at them or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2301.09,"endTime":2304.24,"body":"not validating them when they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2301.09,"endTime":2304.24,"body":"upset about something, tell him"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2304.24,"endTime":2307.42,"body":"the white dirt on it, like you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2304.24,"endTime":2307.42,"body":"name it, right? Like there's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2307.42,"endTime":2310.9,"body":"this this funny point that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2307.42,"endTime":2310.9,"body":"illustrates this. Abraham J"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2310.9,"endTime":2313.87,"body":"torski. wrote a book called"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2310.9,"endTime":2313.87,"body":"addictive thinking, which is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2313.87,"endTime":2316.15,"body":"book about the psychology of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2313.87,"endTime":2316.15,"body":"addiction. It's really, really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2316.15,"endTime":2318.85,"body":"good. I suggest everyone read"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2316.15,"endTime":2318.85,"body":"that spouses, partners, addicts,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2318.85,"endTime":2323.5,"body":"a, like everyone should read"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2318.85,"endTime":2323.5,"body":"that. But there's this. There's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2323.5,"endTime":2326.71,"body":"this this cartoon of sorts, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2323.5,"endTime":2326.71,"body":"it's this man complaining to a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2326.71,"endTime":2330.82,"body":"woman in a bar. The man says, My"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2326.71,"endTime":2330.82,"body":"wife doesn't understand me. The"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2330.82,"endTime":2333.82,"body":"woman says, Well, what doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2330.82,"endTime":2333.82,"body":"she understand? The man says,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2333.94,"endTime":2337.24,"body":"She doesn't understand why I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2333.94,"endTime":2337.24,"body":"drink. woman says, Well, why do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2337.24,"endTime":2340.6,"body":"you drink? The man says, because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2337.24,"endTime":2340.6,"body":"my wife doesn't understand me."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2341.32,"endTime":2344.41,"body":"It's a circular logic and this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2341.32,"endTime":2344.41,"body":"failure to understand cause and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2344.41,"endTime":2349.75,"body":"effect. Yeah, it's like a form"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2344.41,"endTime":2349.75,"body":"of dyslexia. It blows my mind. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2349.75,"endTime":2353.29,"body":"would just ask people to try and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2349.75,"endTime":2353.29,"body":"understand that your best"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2353.29,"endTime":2357.67,"body":"thinking up to this point got us"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2353.29,"endTime":2357.67,"body":"here. And it has always blown my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2357.67,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"mind that addicts alcoholics"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2357.67,"endTime":2362.41,"body":"alike, will sit there and tell"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2366.7,"body":"you with their life crumbling"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2362.41,"endTime":2366.7,"body":"around them. I got this. I know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2366.7,"endTime":2370.63,"body":"what's best. I'm going to make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2366.7,"endTime":2370.63,"body":"the right choices. Are you sure"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2370.63,"endTime":2374.23,"body":"about that? All right. Are we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2370.63,"endTime":2374.23,"body":"sure about that? I don't think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2374.23,"endTime":2378.46,"body":"so. I don't think so. Like I had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2374.23,"endTime":2378.46,"body":"to get to the point where I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2382.15,"body":"realized that my best thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2382.15,"body":"and all my genius got me to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2382.15,"endTime":2386.23,"body":"where I am. Maybe it's time to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2382.15,"endTime":2386.23,"body":"listen to outsiders. Maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2386.23,"endTime":2389.26,"body":"time to consider different"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2386.23,"endTime":2389.26,"body":"perspectives. Maybe it's time to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2389.26,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"listen to something like this."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2389.26,"endTime":2391.51,"body":"So if you are like I'm proud of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2391.51,"endTime":2393.73,"body":"you. This is huge. Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2391.51,"endTime":2393.73,"body":"you're listening to something"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2393.73,"endTime":2397.09,"body":"like this but it is safe to say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2393.73,"endTime":2397.09,"body":"that your best thinking at this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2397.09,"endTime":2400.21,"body":"point needs to be questioned"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2397.09,"endTime":2400.21,"body":"than you might might say Do you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2400.21,"endTime":2403.18,"body":"drink because your partner is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2400.21,"endTime":2403.18,"body":"cold or distant or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2403.18,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"confrontational? unloving,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2403.18,"endTime":2406.96,"body":"whatever, right? Maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2406.96,"endTime":2410.47,"body":"cold because you haven't spoken"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2406.96,"endTime":2410.47,"body":"intimately in years. Maybe your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2410.47,"endTime":2414.49,"body":"outburst during drinking sprees"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2410.47,"endTime":2414.49,"body":"or using drugs has been really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2414.49,"endTime":2417.97,"body":"really hurtful and your promises"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2414.49,"endTime":2417.97,"body":"to stop have gone unfulfilled,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2418.33,"endTime":2420.79,"body":"and the trust is gone due to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2418.33,"endTime":2420.79,"body":"infidelity while under the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2420.79,"endTime":2424.99,"body":"influence. Maybe your your boss"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2420.79,"endTime":2424.99,"body":"is a jerk because you rarely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2424.99,"endTime":2428.41,"body":"sleep and sleep enough to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2424.99,"endTime":2428.41,"body":"effective at work. Maybe you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2428.41,"endTime":2430.6,"body":"hungover all the time, and you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2428.41,"endTime":2430.6,"body":"don't deal with stress well, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2430.6,"endTime":2433.87,"body":"you snap on people, like we have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2430.6,"endTime":2433.87,"body":"to start to look at our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2433.87,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"behaviors and take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2433.87,"endTime":2436.99,"body":"accountability for our actions."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2437.29,"endTime":2439.93,"body":"This is the intro and to doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2437.29,"endTime":2439.93,"body":"that, yeah, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2439.93,"endTime":2444.55,"body":"expound upon this here in just a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2439.93,"endTime":2444.55,"body":"moment we talk about the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2444.55,"endTime":2447.25,"body":"relationship. This is what we're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2444.55,"endTime":2447.25,"body":"really doing here like we are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2447.82,"endTime":2451.39,"body":"addiction relationship experts,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2447.82,"endTime":2451.39,"body":"this is what we do. So like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2451.39,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"while drinking may have fixed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2451.39,"endTime":2454.72,"body":"some of the immediate issues. It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2454.72,"endTime":2457.66,"body":"will not suddenly make us"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2454.72,"endTime":2457.66,"body":"vulnerable and honest and non"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2457.66,"endTime":2461.5,"body":"abusive. That work takes time"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2457.66,"endTime":2461.5,"body":"and effort. We talked about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2461.5,"endTime":2464.14,"body":"neuroplasticity, those are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2461.5,"endTime":2464.14,"body":"behaviors that you learn. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2464.14,"endTime":2467.44,"body":"can unlearn stuff, you can learn"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2464.14,"endTime":2467.44,"body":"new stuff. Yeah, just have faith"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2467.44,"endTime":2471.34,"body":"that your mind is a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2467.44,"endTime":2471.34,"body":"machine. It's an amazing organ."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2471.61,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"And it can do this. Yes. Like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2471.61,"endTime":2475.75,"body":"I'm not special. I just did the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2479.86,"body":"work. Right. That's it? Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2475.75,"endTime":2479.86,"body":"I would urge you stop looking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2479.86,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"for the shortcut and just do the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2479.86,"endTime":2483.88,"body":"frickin work. Just do the work,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2484.03,"endTime":2487.18,"body":"like everyone else has to do do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2484.03,"endTime":2487.18,"body":"the work. You're not special."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2487.18,"endTime":2490.42,"body":"You're not unique. You're not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2487.18,"endTime":2490.42,"body":"special flower, just do the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2490.42,"endTime":2493.69,"body":"work. Like you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2490.42,"endTime":2493.69,"body":"fix it on your own. You're just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2493.69,"endTime":2496.42,"body":"not you're, if you've been doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2493.69,"endTime":2496.42,"body":"this for 30 years, you're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2496.42,"endTime":2498.58,"body":"going to figure it out. Man"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2496.42,"endTime":2498.58,"body":"would have figured it out by"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2498.58,"endTime":2502.54,"body":"now. Right? Let's be real. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2498.58,"endTime":2502.54,"body":"right. Okay, so here's what we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2502.54,"endTime":2507.82,"body":"discovered about how the disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2502.54,"endTime":2507.82,"body":"concept is hurtful to spouses"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2507.85,"endTime":2510.94,"body":"and addicts alike. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2507.85,"endTime":2510.94,"body":"spouses, partners, and even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2510.94,"endTime":2516.64,"body":"addicts alike. Just okay, if the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2510.94,"endTime":2516.64,"body":"disease concept helps get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2516.64,"endTime":2519.49,"body":"someone sober, then what's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2516.64,"endTime":2519.49,"body":"harm? Like really like? What's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2519.49,"endTime":2522.19,"body":"the harm in it? It helps people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2519.49,"endTime":2522.19,"body":"get sober. If it diminishes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2522.19,"endTime":2525.67,"body":"shame and guilt, then what's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2522.19,"endTime":2525.67,"body":"harm in it? If we're accurately"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2525.67,"endTime":2528.4,"body":"describing in scientific terms,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2525.67,"endTime":2528.4,"body":"what's going on? Then? What's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2528.4,"endTime":2533.5,"body":"the harm in that? Here's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2528.4,"endTime":2533.5,"body":"problem with that is that the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2533.5,"endTime":2538.03,"body":"abuse that occurs in addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2533.5,"endTime":2538.03,"body":"and how spart spouses partners"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2538.45,"endTime":2545.02,"body":"and loved ones are treated? is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2538.45,"endTime":2545.02,"body":"washed away, we completely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2545.02,"endTime":2548.5,"body":"disregard that. We don't ask"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2545.02,"endTime":2548.5,"body":"anyone to take responsibility"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2548.5,"endTime":2551.23,"body":"for it because it came from a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2548.5,"endTime":2551.23,"body":"diseased person. And once you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2551.23,"endTime":2553.9,"body":"say disease, everyone has to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2551.23,"endTime":2553.9,"body":"back off. Because you don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2553.9,"endTime":2556.33,"body":"treat disease people that way."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2553.9,"endTime":2556.33,"body":"We treat them with compassion."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2556.33,"endTime":2559.63,"body":"Remember, they have a disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2556.33,"endTime":2559.63,"body":"I'm challenging that. No, we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2559.63,"endTime":2563.14,"body":"should look at these things. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2559.63,"endTime":2563.14,"body":"should be asking questions."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2563.17,"endTime":2566.56,"body":"Right. And we should be asking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2563.17,"endTime":2566.56,"body":"our partners. Are you okay?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2566.59,"endTime":2570.13,"body":"Yeah. Because you've dealt with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2566.59,"endTime":2570.13,"body":"abuse? Yeah. It doesn't mean it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2570.13,"endTime":2572.2,"body":"doesn't make it any better that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2570.13,"endTime":2572.2,"body":"it came from a disease person,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2572.2,"endTime":2574.21,"body":"like Did it make it better for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2572.2,"endTime":2574.21,"body":"you that I had a disease when I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2574.21,"endTime":2576.61,"body":"called you names? I said ugly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2574.21,"endTime":2576.61,"body":"things."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2576.64,"endTime":2579.79,"body":"No, I always looked at"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2576.64,"endTime":2579.79,"body":"the behavior and it affected me."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2580.09,"endTime":2582.79,"body":"You might have thought that you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2580.09,"endTime":2582.79,"body":"were only affecting yourself in"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2582.79,"endTime":2585.7,"body":"the moment, like lying you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2582.79,"endTime":2585.7,"body":"thought they were little white"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2585.7,"endTime":2588.37,"body":"lies and it's not going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2585.7,"endTime":2588.37,"body":"affect her her self esteem going"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2588.37,"endTime":2591.31,"body":"forward. And she'll be fine. I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2588.37,"endTime":2591.31,"body":"can get through this guy's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2591.31,"endTime":2594.73,"body":"gaslighting me like, no, that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2591.31,"endTime":2594.73,"body":"stuff affected me disease or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2594.73,"endTime":2597.94,"body":"not. You still affected me?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2594.73,"endTime":2597.94,"body":"Absolutely. in a negative way."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2598.12,"endTime":2598.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2598.81,"endTime":2602.53,"body":"And the information in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2598.81,"endTime":2602.53,"body":"addiction community comes from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2602.53,"endTime":2607.45,"body":"like, so many different places,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2602.53,"endTime":2607.45,"body":"that it's almost like a teenage"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2607.45,"endTime":2611.65,"body":"rumor. Like, do you hear so and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2607.45,"endTime":2611.65,"body":"so's dating so and so. And then"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2611.68,"endTime":2614.29,"body":"people play telephone with that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2611.68,"endTime":2614.29,"body":"game member telephone, like the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2614.29,"endTime":2616.99,"body":"information gets changed little"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2614.29,"endTime":2616.99,"body":"by little, a little bit more, a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2616.99,"endTime":2619.81,"body":"little bit more, until you can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2616.99,"endTime":2619.81,"body":"even you can't even tell what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2619.81,"endTime":2622.57,"body":"happened at the beginning, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2619.81,"endTime":2622.57,"body":"what the real story ever was."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2622.81,"endTime":2626.23,"body":"That's what happens in treatment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2622.81,"endTime":2626.23,"body":"centers around the world that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2626.23,"endTime":2629.2,"body":"happens in therapy clinics, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2626.23,"endTime":2629.2,"body":"happens all over the place. It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2632.17,"body":"is an imperfect understanding of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2629.2,"endTime":2632.17,"body":"what's really happening. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2632.2,"endTime":2634.66,"body":"because it's coming from people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2632.2,"endTime":2634.66,"body":"who studied this stuff, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2634.66,"endTime":2637.84,"body":"understand it. They understand"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2634.66,"endTime":2637.84,"body":"it as they studied it, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2637.84,"endTime":2640.93,"body":"they've never lived it. The"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2637.84,"endTime":2640.93,"body":"subjective experience of people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2640.93,"endTime":2645.1,"body":"like me that have recovered,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2640.93,"endTime":2645.1,"body":"says otherwise. Yep. I was aware"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2645.1,"endTime":2649.24,"body":"to some degree that I was being"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2645.1,"endTime":2649.24,"body":"controlling and ugly and lying"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2649.24,"endTime":2652.75,"body":"and doing all of these things."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2649.24,"endTime":2652.75,"body":"You're telling me that I get a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2652.75,"endTime":2657.07,"body":"pass. Now, some people will take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2652.75,"endTime":2657.07,"body":"that pass because they listen, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2657.07,"endTime":2659.95,"body":"have a disease. I don't have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2657.07,"endTime":2659.95,"body":"take responsibility. It was the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2659.95,"endTime":2663.01,"body":"disease. And they'll look at you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2659.95,"endTime":2663.01,"body":"and say, you can't be mad at me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2663.01,"endTime":2666.1,"body":"for that. I have a disease."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2663.01,"endTime":2666.1,"body":"That's not fair. Then you hear"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2666.1,"endTime":2670.6,"body":"the doctor. He said I have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2666.1,"endTime":2670.6,"body":"disease. Bull. I'm calling BS on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2670.6,"endTime":2674.11,"body":"every bit of it. Right? That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2670.6,"endTime":2674.11,"body":"not the way it works. Yeah. That"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2674.11,"endTime":2677.53,"body":"is not the way it works. But I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2674.11,"endTime":2677.53,"body":"mean, even 12 Step groups are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2677.53,"endTime":2680.56,"body":"bad about this, like the one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2677.53,"endTime":2680.56,"body":"that is out there for spouses Al"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2680.56,"endTime":2683.53,"body":"Anon. It's been around for quite"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2680.56,"endTime":2683.53,"body":"some time is really big on this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2683.53,"endTime":2687.25,"body":"disease concept. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2683.53,"endTime":2687.25,"body":"think it's useful in some ways,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2687.25,"endTime":2689.95,"body":"it's not all bad. I think some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2687.25,"endTime":2689.95,"body":"really great recovery takes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2689.95,"endTime":2694.69,"body":"place there. It does help"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2689.95,"endTime":2694.69,"body":"diminish the personal aspect of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2694.69,"endTime":2697.81,"body":"this like he's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2694.69,"endTime":2697.81,"body":"doing it to you. He's just doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2697.81,"endTime":2698.05,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2700.66,"body":"I'm still gonna take it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2700.66,"body":"personal. I'm sorry. I mean, how"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2700.66,"endTime":2703.15,"body":"can you not want to say how can"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2700.66,"endTime":2703.15,"body":"you not want to over and over"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2703.15,"endTime":2706.03,"body":"and over again? Like, that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2703.15,"endTime":2706.03,"body":"hard? Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2706.93,"endTime":2708.94,"body":"when you go to these 12"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2706.93,"endTime":2708.94,"body":"Step groups, remember that these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2708.94,"endTime":2712.75,"body":"are not experts in the recovery"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2708.94,"endTime":2712.75,"body":"from addiction necessarily, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2712.75,"endTime":2716.95,"body":"they're experts in creating"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2712.75,"endTime":2716.95,"body":"spiritual experiences that will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2716.95,"endTime":2719.77,"body":"solve their problem. That is the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2716.95,"endTime":2719.77,"body":"entire purpose of a 12 step"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2719.77,"endTime":2720.19,"body":"group."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2720.339,"endTime":2723.219,"body":"Right. And it's for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2720.339,"endTime":2723.219,"body":"community to be with people who"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2723.219,"endTime":2725.979,"body":"have gone through the same Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2723.219,"endTime":2725.979,"body":"very similar things. And there's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2725.979,"endTime":2728.889,"body":"a lot of positive that comes out"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2725.979,"endTime":2728.889,"body":"of that. Yeah, in full"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2728.89,"endTime":2731.89,"body":"disclosure, I got sober"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2728.89,"endTime":2731.89,"body":"and a 12 step group. So I'm not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2731.89,"endTime":2736.78,"body":"hating on 12 Step groups, I owe"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2731.89,"endTime":2736.78,"body":"my life to a 12 step group. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2736.78,"endTime":2739.96,"body":"what I found is that nothing's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2736.78,"endTime":2739.96,"body":"perfect, nothing's perfect. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2739.96,"endTime":2743.35,"body":"I think when it comes to this,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2739.96,"endTime":2743.35,"body":"and how we applies the disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2743.35,"endTime":2746.92,"body":"concept, this is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2743.35,"endTime":2746.92,"body":"harmful to spouses and partners."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2747.22,"endTime":2749.41,"body":"If you think that you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2747.22,"endTime":2749.41,"body":"get off that easy because you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"have a disease and we don't get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"to talk about all the cheating"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2757.42,"body":"and infidelity, all the the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2757.42,"body":"abuse, whether it be emotional,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2757.69,"endTime":2762.79,"body":"or physical, the lying the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2757.69,"endTime":2762.79,"body":"gaslighting, the manipulation,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2763.03,"endTime":2766.15,"body":"you don't get to excuse it, just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2763.03,"endTime":2766.15,"body":"because you had a disease, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2766.15,"endTime":2770.62,"body":"don't in doing that, what you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2766.15,"endTime":2770.62,"body":"telling your partner is that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2770.62,"endTime":2772.81,"body":"don't get to feel that way."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2770.62,"endTime":2772.81,"body":"You're not allowed to feel that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2772.81,"endTime":2776.44,"body":"way. But their feelings are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2772.81,"endTime":2776.44,"body":"real, they are real, this stuff"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2776.47,"endTime":2780.31,"body":"happened to them. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2776.47,"endTime":2780.31,"body":"make their effects, any less"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2780.31,"endTime":2785.2,"body":"real, doesn't make their trauma,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2780.31,"endTime":2785.2,"body":"their PTSD, their anxiety, their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2785.2,"endTime":2789.16,"body":"depression, their suicidal"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2785.2,"endTime":2789.16,"body":"ideation, because of this stuff"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2789.16,"endTime":2792.07,"body":"any less real. So we're telling"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2789.16,"endTime":2792.07,"body":"these people, you don't get to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2792.07,"endTime":2795.49,"body":"feel this way, because they had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2792.07,"endTime":2795.49,"body":"a disease. And that is bullshit."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2795.52,"endTime":2799.57,"body":"Yeah, that is ridiculous. I, if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2795.52,"endTime":2799.57,"body":"I, before I leave this earth, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2799.57,"endTime":2802.09,"body":"want to make sure that people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2799.57,"endTime":2802.09,"body":"know that, that spouses and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2802.09,"endTime":2804.82,"body":"partners know that that you can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2802.09,"endTime":2804.82,"body":"feel however you need to feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2804.85,"endTime":2807.22,"body":"Yeah. And so if you've done"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2804.85,"endTime":2807.22,"body":"these things, your partner, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2807.22,"endTime":2809.2,"body":"think that you're just going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2807.22,"endTime":2809.2,"body":"get off easy because they have a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2809.2,"endTime":2813.04,"body":"disease. It doesn't work that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2809.2,"endTime":2813.04,"body":"way. If you do that, I can tell"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2813.04,"endTime":2816.67,"body":"you what happens. They will a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2813.04,"endTime":2816.67,"body":"lot of people will hear that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2816.7,"endTime":2818.8,"body":"partners anyway. And they'll be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2816.7,"endTime":2818.8,"body":"like, Okay, that's what these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2818.8,"endTime":2822.28,"body":"professionals told me, it's what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2818.8,"endTime":2822.28,"body":"I'm going to do. Years and years"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2822.28,"endTime":2825.22,"body":"later, this stuff comes back up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2822.28,"endTime":2825.22,"body":"that right there, it comes back"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2825.22,"endTime":2828.31,"body":"up, it doesn't go away"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2825.22,"endTime":2828.31,"body":"completely. No, it doesn't like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2829.57,"endTime":2834.25,"body":"the disease brain idea is pushed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2829.57,"endTime":2834.25,"body":"incredibly hard on people."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2834.58,"endTime":2836.83,"body":"Because it creates compassion"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2834.58,"endTime":2836.83,"body":"rather than resentment. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2836.83,"endTime":2839.2,"body":"talked about this in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2836.83,"endTime":2839.2,"body":"opening. And without other"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2839.2,"endTime":2843.04,"body":"options, people just buy in. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2839.2,"endTime":2843.04,"body":"all it's doing is putting the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2843.04,"endTime":2848.59,"body":"trauma on a credit card. And one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2843.04,"endTime":2848.59,"body":"day, it has to get paid off with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2848.62,"endTime":2852.91,"body":"interest because it collects and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2848.62,"endTime":2852.91,"body":"it compounds over time. The"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2852.91,"endTime":2855.22,"body":"sooner you deal with your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2852.91,"endTime":2855.22,"body":"trauma, the better off you'll"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2855.22,"endTime":2859.09,"body":"be. So if we're telling spouses,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2855.22,"endTime":2859.09,"body":"they don't get to feel this way,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2859.09,"endTime":2861.94,"body":"because it came from a disease"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2859.09,"endTime":2861.94,"body":"person, you need to just let"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2861.94,"endTime":2865.45,"body":"that go. What are we doing to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2861.94,"endTime":2865.45,"body":"them? What does that narrative"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2865.45,"endTime":2868.39,"body":"doing to them? That's my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2865.45,"endTime":2868.39,"body":"concern. It's always been my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2868.39,"endTime":2871.06,"body":"concern. I know it's been yours."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2868.39,"endTime":2871.06,"body":"You felt this way. When they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2871.06,"endTime":2872.56,"body":"were telling you this stuff."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2871.06,"endTime":2872.56,"body":"You're like, alright, letting"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2872.56,"endTime":2875.92,"body":"that go. Oh, yeah. Your mind."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2872.56,"endTime":2875.92,"body":"I'm not letting that go. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2875.98,"endTime":2878.5,"body":"You know what he said to me? You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2875.98,"endTime":2878.5,"body":"know what he did to me? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2878.56,"endTime":2882.43,"body":"like, we don't realize the the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2878.56,"endTime":2882.43,"body":"effects this stuff has on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2882.43,"endTime":2886.12,"body":"people. So this whole"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2882.43,"endTime":2886.12,"body":"conversation for addicts and for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2886.12,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"spouses and partners gets so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2886.12,"endTime":2890.26,"body":"freakin muddy. Because they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2890.29,"endTime":2893.83,"body":"hurt, they're actually hurt."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2890.29,"endTime":2893.83,"body":"They don't feel comfortable in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2893.83,"endTime":2896.65,"body":"their own skin, their own"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2893.83,"endTime":2896.65,"body":"thoughts, they have lost their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2896.65,"endTime":2901.36,"body":"competence, their self esteem is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2896.65,"endTime":2901.36,"body":"gone. Because of this treatment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2901.36,"endTime":2904.03,"body":"that we put them through. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2901.36,"endTime":2904.03,"body":"they're told you need to rub"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2904.03,"endTime":2906.82,"body":"dirt on it. Dude, he has a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2904.03,"endTime":2906.82,"body":"disease. Let's focus on Him."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2907.21,"endTime":2910.48,"body":"Enough about you. Let's focus on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2907.21,"endTime":2910.48,"body":"him. That's what the treatment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2910.48,"endTime":2913.63,"body":"community as a whole has done to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2910.48,"endTime":2913.63,"body":"spouses. Yeah. And so many"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2913.63,"endTime":2915.52,"body":"words. I mean, obviously, it's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2913.63,"endTime":2915.52,"body":"little extreme what I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2915.52,"endTime":2919.03,"body":"about here, but yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2915.52,"endTime":2919.03,"body":"essentially it. Yeah. So. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2919.03,"endTime":2921.7,"body":"also, like, the information is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2919.03,"endTime":2921.7,"body":"coming from, it's decentralized."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2921.7,"endTime":2924.91,"body":"Like, depending on where you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2921.7,"endTime":2924.91,"body":"heard it, who you heard it from,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2925.12,"endTime":2928.81,"body":"how many people are saying it,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2925.12,"endTime":2928.81,"body":"it all seems to distance from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2928.81,"endTime":2932.05,"body":"the fact about what's really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2928.81,"endTime":2932.05,"body":"going on. Your perception is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2932.05,"endTime":2934.45,"body":"what really matters here. Your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2932.05,"endTime":2934.45,"body":"perception matters, your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2934.45,"endTime":2939.61,"body":"perception is your reality. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2934.45,"endTime":2939.61,"body":"whenever we just say this to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2939.61,"endTime":2942.37,"body":"make it easier for the addict to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2939.61,"endTime":2942.37,"body":"cope with their behavior and and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2942.37,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"for a family to understand what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2942.37,"endTime":2948.34,"body":"was going on. We are it's it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2951.88,"body":"like a zero sum game like they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2948.34,"endTime":2951.88,"body":"win, but you lose. Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2951.88,"endTime":2954.97,"body":"addict wins. But you lose. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2951.88,"endTime":2954.97,"body":"an addict can affect"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2955.75,"endTime":2959.53,"body":"exponentially more people than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2955.75,"endTime":2959.53,"body":"just addiction. I mean, their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2959.53,"endTime":2963.46,"body":"addiction affects them. Yes. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2959.53,"endTime":2963.46,"body":"their behaviors affect sometimes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2963.46,"endTime":2966.76,"body":"up to 25 people. Yeah, in their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2963.46,"endTime":2966.76,"body":"lifetime that the course of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2966.76,"endTime":2969.85,"body":"their use in negative ways."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2966.76,"endTime":2969.85,"body":"These people are going to have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2969.85,"endTime":2975.04,"body":"fallout from that abuse. But we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2969.85,"endTime":2975.04,"body":"just got to wipe it clean. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2975.04,"endTime":2978.34,"body":"just I don't buy it. I don't buy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2975.04,"endTime":2978.34,"body":"it. Here's what they're told,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2978.34,"endTime":2981.79,"body":"essentially, your loved one has"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2978.34,"endTime":2981.79,"body":"a disease, just like cancer,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2981.94,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"they can't help it. Everything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2981.94,"endTime":2984.7,"body":"they do is because of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2988.54,"body":"disease. It's heartless and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2984.7,"endTime":2988.54,"body":"futile to be hurt by any of it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2988.78,"endTime":2991.15,"body":"because you're hurt by the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2988.78,"endTime":2991.15,"body":"actions of the disease person."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2991.15,"endTime":2994.18,"body":"So you got to give them a pass."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2991.15,"endTime":2994.18,"body":"They didn't mean to do it. They"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2994.18,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"need your help. Not additional."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2994.18,"endTime":2996.88,"body":"They don't need more problems in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":2999.01,"body":"their life. They don't need you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2996.88,"endTime":2999.01,"body":"nagging about what happened back"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2999.01,"endTime":3002.25,"body":"then. Nobody has Time for your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2999.01,"endTime":3002.25,"body":"concerns. They're not valid,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3002.4,"endTime":3005.46,"body":"time is ticking. We got to focus"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3002.4,"endTime":3005.46,"body":"on this addict, this alcoholic,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3005.46,"endTime":3009.09,"body":"and we got to help them. How"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3005.46,"endTime":3009.09,"body":"would you feel? How would you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3009.09,"endTime":3009.6,"body":"feel?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3009.63,"endTime":3012.66,"body":"Well, it's also they'll"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3009.63,"endTime":3012.66,"body":"tell you to focus on yourself to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3013.11,"endTime":3017.22,"body":"win, like you focus on the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3013.11,"endTime":3017.22,"body":"addicts is to help them. But you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3017.22,"endTime":3020.25,"body":"also need to focus on yourself."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3017.22,"endTime":3020.25,"body":"Well, where's this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3020.25,"endTime":3025.26,"body":"interdependence? There's got to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3020.25,"endTime":3025.26,"body":"be like, both of you together,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3025.26,"endTime":3027.99,"body":"you're still married, you're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3025.26,"endTime":3027.99,"body":"still partners, like, why is it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3027.99,"endTime":3030.9,"body":"just focus on this person or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3027.99,"endTime":3030.9,"body":"just focus on yourself?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3030.93,"endTime":3033.21,"body":"I think once again, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3030.93,"endTime":3033.21,"body":"goes into an extreme, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3033.21,"endTime":3038.01,"body":"that, that that narrative of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3033.21,"endTime":3038.01,"body":"focus on you is helpful. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3038.04,"endTime":3040.68,"body":"the number one question we get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3038.04,"endTime":3040.68,"body":"asked is, How do I help this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3040.68,"endTime":3044.28,"body":"person? And the short answer is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3040.68,"endTime":3044.28,"body":"that you really can't right now"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3044.28,"endTime":3046.83,"body":"you can install some boundaries"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3044.28,"endTime":3046.83,"body":"to protect your peace. But those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3046.83,"endTime":3049.32,"body":"remember, those are the protects"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3046.83,"endTime":3049.32,"body":"you, right? But the addict will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3049.32,"endTime":3053.04,"body":"often see those as consequences"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3049.32,"endTime":3053.04,"body":"as you detach. And they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3053.04,"endTime":3056.04,"body":"experienced natural consequences"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3053.04,"endTime":3056.04,"body":"of their action, because you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3056.04,"endTime":3058.29,"body":"don't allow them to treat you a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3056.04,"endTime":3058.29,"body":"certain way anymore,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3058.35,"endTime":3060.87,"body":"right. But they're also"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3058.35,"endTime":3060.87,"body":"telling us to focus on us. But"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3060.87,"endTime":3064.47,"body":"then they tell us, be careful"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3060.87,"endTime":3064.47,"body":"with what you say, don't trigger"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3064.47,"endTime":3068.37,"body":"your spouse, it's so make sure"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3064.47,"endTime":3068.37,"body":"you are having a comfortable"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3068.37,"endTime":3071.97,"body":"place. Make sure they're, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3068.37,"endTime":3071.97,"body":"know, doing what they're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3071.97,"endTime":3075.3,"body":"supposed to be doing. But so"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3071.97,"endTime":3075.3,"body":"it's just it's so complicated to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3075.3,"endTime":3077.82,"body":"me the way that it's put out"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3075.3,"endTime":3077.82,"body":"there like that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3077.91,"endTime":3080.64,"body":"Yeah. And even spouses"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3077.91,"endTime":3080.64,"body":"that hear that and they're like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3080.64,"endTime":3084.57,"body":"Okay, listen, I will do anything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3080.64,"endTime":3084.57,"body":"to get them sober. I'll do and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3084.6,"endTime":3087.21,"body":"I'll forget about every bit of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3084.6,"endTime":3087.21,"body":"it. I don't care. I just need"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3087.21,"endTime":3090.42,"body":"them to get sober. Even when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3087.21,"endTime":3090.42,"body":"they agree to drop all charges,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3090.42,"endTime":3093.63,"body":"if you will. There's still hurt,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3090.42,"endTime":3093.63,"body":"there's still trauma there."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3093.66,"endTime":3097.08,"body":"Resentment will come up."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3093.66,"endTime":3097.08,"body":"There's eventually things will"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3097.08,"endTime":3098.85,"body":"come up. That's what happened"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3097.08,"endTime":3098.85,"body":"with are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3098.88,"endTime":3101.64,"body":"really you were I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3098.88,"endTime":3101.64,"body":"sober for five years. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3101.7,"endTime":3105.69,"body":"I was 655. I mean, we're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3101.7,"endTime":3105.69,"body":"just say 555 years,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3105.69,"endTime":3108.15,"body":"and you started"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3105.69,"endTime":3108.15,"body":"experiencing severe depression,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3108.18,"endTime":3111.96,"body":"anxiety, panic disorder, and all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3108.18,"endTime":3111.96,"body":"kinds of stuff that was going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3111.96,"endTime":3116.58,"body":"on. Yes. And come to find out."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3111.96,"endTime":3116.58,"body":"This was because of me. This is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3116.58,"endTime":3119.19,"body":"because of the abuse that I put"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3116.58,"endTime":3119.19,"body":"you through for years and years"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3119.19,"endTime":3122.94,"body":"and years. Now, you you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3119.19,"endTime":3122.94,"body":"obviously had some of your own"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3122.94,"endTime":3125.52,"body":"stuff and like your spouse is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3122.94,"endTime":3125.52,"body":"partners. They're not stupid."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3125.52,"endTime":3127.95,"body":"They know that everyone knows"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3125.52,"endTime":3127.95,"body":"they have some other stuff to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3127.95,"endTime":3131.64,"body":"work through. I had, like, Of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3127.95,"endTime":3131.64,"body":"course you do. Like you don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3131.64,"endTime":3135.15,"body":"need to hammer that home is it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3131.64,"endTime":3135.15,"body":"only them though. Yeah. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3135.15,"endTime":3139.86,"body":"the fact that I gaslight you and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3135.15,"endTime":3139.86,"body":"I lied to lies, and I hid things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3139.86,"endTime":3142.68,"body":"from you. And I told you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3139.86,"endTime":3142.68,"body":"whenever you addressed a valid"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3142.68,"endTime":3146.58,"body":"concern with me, there is no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3142.68,"endTime":3146.58,"body":"problem, right? To the extent"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3146.58,"endTime":3149.82,"body":"that there might be a problem."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3146.58,"endTime":3149.82,"body":"You're the problem. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3151.08,"endTime":3153.87,"body":"you shouldn't feel this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3151.08,"endTime":3153.87,"body":"way. Why do you feel that way?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3153.87,"endTime":3157.11,"body":"You need to get over it. You"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3153.87,"endTime":3157.11,"body":"know, that affects a person."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3157.14,"endTime":3161.01,"body":"Absolutely it does. That"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3157.14,"endTime":3161.01,"body":"affects people that has far"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3161.01,"endTime":3164.13,"body":"reaching consequences. What I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3161.01,"endTime":3164.13,"body":"was doing to her was, I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3164.13,"endTime":3168.9,"body":"making her second guess her own"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3164.13,"endTime":3168.9,"body":"thoughts. The everyone has like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3168.9,"endTime":3173.46,"body":"a tape that plays in their head."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3168.9,"endTime":3173.46,"body":"When you screw up someone's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3173.46,"endTime":3177.21,"body":"tape, and how they think and you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3173.46,"endTime":3177.21,"body":"get them questioning everything."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3177.84,"endTime":3182.19,"body":"You have completely jacked up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3177.84,"endTime":3182.19,"body":"them, you've screwed them up in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3182.19,"endTime":3186.24,"body":"ways you can't imagine. You've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3182.19,"endTime":3186.24,"body":"damaged their self esteem, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3186.24,"endTime":3188.91,"body":"have damaged their self worth,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3186.24,"endTime":3188.91,"body":"you have damaged their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3188.91,"endTime":3192.66,"body":"competence, you have taken away"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3188.91,"endTime":3192.66,"body":"any bit of empowerment that they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3192.66,"endTime":3197.73,"body":"had. And they feel like they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3192.66,"endTime":3197.73,"body":"scum, like oh my god, I'm I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3197.73,"endTime":3201.3,"body":"the abuser. I'm the crazy one."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3197.73,"endTime":3201.3,"body":"I'm the problem, when I knew"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3201.33,"endTime":3205.08,"body":"damn well, that I was just lying"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3201.33,"endTime":3205.08,"body":"to you to get you off my back."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3205.08,"endTime":3208.2,"body":"So I could keep running my game."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3205.08,"endTime":3208.2,"body":"Yeah, that is a fact. And that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3208.2,"endTime":3212.43,"body":"coming from someone that did it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3208.2,"endTime":3212.43,"body":"So I can sit here and say that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3212.67,"endTime":3215.94,"body":"others can too. Yeah, I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3212.67,"endTime":3215.94,"body":"think that we realize that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3215.94,"endTime":3218.49,"body":"what we've done first of all,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3215.94,"endTime":3218.49,"body":"yeah, but I think another part"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3218.49,"endTime":3221.31,"body":"of it is that the disease model"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3218.49,"endTime":3221.31,"body":"excuses us of this behavior,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3221.34,"endTime":3224.52,"body":"right? And the consequence of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3221.34,"endTime":3224.52,"body":"that is that spouses partners"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3224.52,"endTime":3228.48,"body":"and loved ones suffer. Yes, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3224.52,"endTime":3228.48,"body":"a zero sum game where the addict"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3228.48,"endTime":3232.29,"body":"wins, and the spouse loses. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3228.48,"endTime":3232.29,"body":"I don't believe in that. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3232.29,"endTime":3236.1,"body":"believe in a collaborative model"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3232.29,"endTime":3236.1,"body":"of recovery. Yes. Which we are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3236.1,"endTime":3240.72,"body":"going to get into, in part two"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3236.1,"endTime":3240.72,"body":"of this episode. Yes. So one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3240.72,"endTime":3243.63,"body":"hour in, we've covered some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3240.72,"endTime":3243.63,"body":"things that I hope that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3243.63,"endTime":3247.89,"body":"loved. We will release another"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3243.63,"endTime":3247.89,"body":"episode on Friday, which is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3252.72,"body":"part two to this part two. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3247.92,"endTime":3252.72,"body":"part two, be part two, A, we'll"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3252.72,"endTime":3255.51,"body":"just call Okay, there you go."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3252.72,"endTime":3255.51,"body":"Okay. I don't want to just I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3255.51,"endTime":3257.76,"body":"don't Yeah, it gets too long"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3255.51,"endTime":3257.76,"body":"people just disappear on us."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3257.76,"endTime":3261.24,"body":"Right. But so that that kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3257.76,"endTime":3261.24,"body":"lays the groundwork for where we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3261.24,"endTime":3265.53,"body":"go from him from here. So we are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3261.24,"endTime":3265.53,"body":"going to learn as addicts as"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3265.53,"endTime":3269.1,"body":"partners who struggle with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3265.53,"endTime":3269.1,"body":"substance abuse disorder, how we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3269.1,"endTime":3272.88,"body":"can support our partners and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3269.1,"endTime":3272.88,"body":"their recovery is well, and they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3272.88,"endTime":3276.0,"body":"can support us in hours. This"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3272.88,"endTime":3276.0,"body":"can be a collaborative model,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3276.06,"endTime":3279.72,"body":"where everyone wins. It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3276.06,"endTime":3279.72,"body":"have to be a zero sum game. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3279.72,"endTime":3283.29,"body":"don't believe in that. I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3279.72,"endTime":3283.29,"body":"believe that. I win, you lose."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3283.38,"endTime":3286.56,"body":"That's not how relationships"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3283.38,"endTime":3286.56,"body":"work. That's not how marriages"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3286.56,"endTime":3289.05,"body":"work. Why should recovery work"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3286.56,"endTime":3289.05,"body":"that way? If you're in a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3289.05,"endTime":3292.05,"body":"relationship with somebody love,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3289.05,"endTime":3292.05,"body":"it makes absolutely no sense to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3292.05,"endTime":3295.23,"body":"me. So we're trying to change"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3292.05,"endTime":3295.23,"body":"that. So come back for the next"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3295.23,"endTime":3298.86,"body":"one. Be looking forward to that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3295.23,"endTime":3298.86,"body":"here in the next 48 hours. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3298.86,"endTime":3301.44,"body":"should have it out. If you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3298.86,"endTime":3301.44,"body":"listening to this on a Wednesday"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3301.44,"endTime":3304.26,"body":"on Friday morning, you will get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3301.44,"endTime":3304.26,"body":"a chance to listen to this next"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3304.26,"endTime":3308.07,"body":"one. So, until next time, I am"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3304.26,"endTime":3308.07,"body":"Matt imp. We'll see you"}]}