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Okay,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":378.48,"endTime":381.09,"body":"so we've had an episode"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":378.48,"endTime":381.09,"body":"on forgiveness on this before"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":381.15,"endTime":384.24,"body":"early on. It was like, it was"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":381.15,"endTime":384.24,"body":"over a year ago, I believe, I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":384.24,"endTime":386.97,"body":"think it was last March. And it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":384.24,"endTime":386.97,"body":"was more, you know, like, broad."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":386.97,"endTime":390.63,"body":"It wasn't talking about what we"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":386.97,"endTime":390.63,"body":"deal with on a day to day basis"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":390.63,"endTime":394.08,"body":"with Tufo? No, it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":390.63,"endTime":394.08,"body":"different. So we're going to dig"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":394.08,"endTime":396.87,"body":"deeper into this topic, because"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":394.08,"endTime":396.87,"body":"we've had a lot of questions on"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":396.87,"endTime":401.52,"body":"it in the community and on tick"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":396.87,"endTime":401.52,"body":"tock. So let's get started."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":401.91,"endTime":402.39,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":403.92,"endTime":407.85,"body":"I think that I would love"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":403.92,"endTime":407.85,"body":"for couples to listen to this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":407.85,"endTime":410.97,"body":"episode. Yes, I agree. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":407.85,"endTime":410.97,"body":"gonna approach this from as if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":410.97,"endTime":413.58,"body":"I'm talking to two people that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":410.97,"endTime":413.58,"body":"are working through it. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":413.58,"endTime":414.03,"body":"someone"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":414.06,"endTime":417.06,"body":"in early recovery or in"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":414.06,"endTime":417.06,"body":"recovery, right, yeah, in active"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":417.06,"endTime":418.11,"body":"addiction, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":418.14,"endTime":420.18,"body":"I think even an active"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":418.14,"endTime":420.18,"body":"addiction, you can you can gain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":420.18,"endTime":422.04,"body":"something from it. I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":420.18,"endTime":422.04,"body":"there's going to be a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":422.04,"endTime":424.95,"body":"things here to understand about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":422.04,"endTime":424.95,"body":"why these conversations, keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":424.95,"endTime":428.1,"body":"coming up what you can do about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":424.95,"endTime":428.1,"body":"it, and how to make this thing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":428.1,"endTime":430.74,"body":"better. And do you want to save"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":428.1,"endTime":430.74,"body":"your marriage? Like, here's how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":430.74,"endTime":433.41,"body":"we did it? Yeah. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":430.74,"endTime":433.41,"body":"it's relevant for couples. So I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":433.41,"endTime":436.68,"body":"would love for people to be able"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":433.41,"endTime":436.68,"body":"to listen to this together. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":436.71,"endTime":439.83,"body":"sometimes I'll be speaking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":436.71,"endTime":439.83,"body":"sounds like to both, or one or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":439.83,"endTime":442.89,"body":"the other. Just, it's intended"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":439.83,"endTime":442.89,"body":"for both people pretend there's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":442.89,"endTime":446.7,"body":"two people in that couch over"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":442.89,"endTime":446.7,"body":"there. Okay, essentially. So it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":446.7,"endTime":449.07,"body":"started with a question that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":446.7,"endTime":449.07,"body":"someone had asked or a video"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":449.07,"endTime":451.68,"body":"that you posted? No, it was a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":449.07,"endTime":451.68,"body":"question someone asked. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":451.68,"endTime":452.52,"body":"what was the question?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":452.64,"endTime":461.04,"body":"Um, her. Her partner was"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":452.64,"endTime":461.04,"body":"in treatment. And he was saying,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":461.04,"endTime":465.06,"body":"let's put the past in the past."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":461.04,"endTime":465.06,"body":"That's right. And you know, we"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":465.06,"endTime":469.86,"body":"did let's just move forward. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":465.06,"endTime":469.86,"body":"she had a problem with that. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":469.89,"endTime":474.12,"body":"I have a problem with that. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":469.89,"endTime":474.12,"body":"you have a problem with that. So"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":474.12,"endTime":475.92,"body":"what does it look like? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":474.12,"endTime":475.92,"body":"this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":475.92,"endTime":476.49,"body":"comes up"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":476.55,"endTime":479.85,"body":"a lot, a lot. A lot. We"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":476.55,"endTime":479.85,"body":"see this in like AAA groups,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":479.85,"endTime":480.99,"body":"too. Sometimes."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":480.99,"endTime":483.9,"body":"Yeah. Sometimes, but I can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":480.99,"endTime":483.9,"body":"say for the ones that I've been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":483.9,"endTime":486.84,"body":"part of, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":483.9,"endTime":486.84,"body":"healthy recovery. I see this a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":486.84,"endTime":488.28,"body":"lot of online forums."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":488.55,"endTime":490.86,"body":"Well, that's what I mean."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":488.55,"endTime":490.86,"body":"Yeah, I have never, I haven't"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.31,"body":"been to like your groups. But I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":490.86,"endTime":494.31,"body":"mean, like online forums, I've"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":494.31,"endTime":495.24,"body":"seen it for sure."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":495.24,"endTime":498.63,"body":"I think that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":495.24,"endTime":498.63,"body":"people approach this topic of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":498.63,"endTime":501.6,"body":"addiction and the betrayal that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":498.63,"endTime":501.6,"body":"takes place in an addicted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":501.6,"endTime":505.86,"body":"relationship, whether it's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":501.6,"endTime":505.86,"body":"lying if it's infidelity, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":505.89,"endTime":510.06,"body":"if it's just the dismissal and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":505.89,"endTime":510.06,"body":"invalidation of feelings, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":510.06,"endTime":513.69,"body":"all these things that cause"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":510.06,"endTime":513.69,"body":"tension, when someone decides"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":513.69,"endTime":515.88,"body":"they're going to get sober,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":513.69,"endTime":515.88,"body":"they, they don't want to look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":515.88,"endTime":519.63,"body":"it, like, listen, that was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":515.88,"endTime":519.63,"body":"before. This is now this is the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":519.63,"endTime":522.51,"body":"new me. And from this moment"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":519.63,"endTime":522.51,"body":"forward, I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":522.51,"endTime":525.99,"body":"different, I'm changing, and we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":522.51,"endTime":525.99,"body":"don't need to go back. We don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":525.99,"endTime":528.51,"body":"need to talk about all this,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":525.99,"endTime":528.51,"body":"this crap that happened. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":528.51,"endTime":532.62,"body":"not helpful. to harp on the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":528.51,"endTime":532.62,"body":"past, when we need to move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":532.62,"endTime":535.86,"body":"forward, we need to focus on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":532.62,"endTime":535.86,"body":"this new life, this new person,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":535.86,"endTime":538.83,"body":"this, this new mindset that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":535.86,"endTime":538.83,"body":"need to have, like, let's let's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":538.83,"endTime":542.28,"body":"start new. I think for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":538.83,"endTime":542.28,"body":"people, that's how they first"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":542.31,"endTime":545.73,"body":"can like glean hope from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":542.31,"endTime":545.73,"body":"something is they can look"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":545.73,"endTime":548.97,"body":"forward to a brighter future."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":545.73,"endTime":548.97,"body":"And I would say yes, you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":548.97,"endTime":552.06,"body":"correct. You absolutely can. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":548.97,"endTime":552.06,"body":"you're going about it the wrong"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":552.06,"endTime":556.98,"body":"way. Yeah. Emotions buried"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":552.06,"endTime":556.98,"body":"alive, never die. You can't."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":557.25,"endTime":560.19,"body":"It's like saying you want to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":557.25,"endTime":560.19,"body":"arrive somewhere without ever"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":560.19,"endTime":564.57,"body":"actually leaving. Like we have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":560.19,"endTime":564.57,"body":"to address these things. We have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":564.57,"endTime":565.65,"body":"to address these things."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":565.799,"endTime":568.409,"body":"Right. But a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":565.799,"endTime":568.409,"body":"people will say that they have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":568.409,"endTime":571.229,"body":"learned this and the program"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":568.409,"endTime":571.229,"body":"that they're in from their"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":571.229,"endTime":575.129,"body":"sponsor, from therapy from"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":571.229,"endTime":575.129,"body":"marriage counselors from"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":575.129,"endTime":578.729,"body":"treatment centers, and they go"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":575.129,"endTime":578.729,"body":"in there and they say, the past"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":578.729,"endTime":579.659,"body":"is the past that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":579.66,"endTime":582.69,"body":"is absolutely false. That"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":579.66,"endTime":582.69,"body":"has not been my experience. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":582.69,"endTime":583.74,"body":"was being right."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":583.74,"endTime":586.56,"body":"And I think that they are"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":583.74,"endTime":586.56,"body":"saying that for their own"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.64,"body":"experience. Like they have to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.64,"body":"learn to forgive themselves, but"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":590.64,"endTime":595.17,"body":"it does not apply to your"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":590.64,"endTime":595.17,"body":"partner. Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":595.2,"endTime":599.07,"body":"in addiction treatment."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":595.2,"endTime":599.07,"body":"Shame is a big topic and it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":599.07,"endTime":601.62,"body":"something that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":599.07,"endTime":601.62,"body":"They'll feel early on, I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":601.62,"endTime":604.35,"body":"horribly for the things I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":601.62,"endTime":604.35,"body":"done for the person that I was."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":604.71,"endTime":608.16,"body":"But we all know I think, well,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":604.71,"endTime":608.16,"body":"NSA all, most people know that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":608.16,"endTime":611.4,"body":"that's not a reflection of who I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":608.16,"endTime":611.4,"body":"really am and what I really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":611.4,"endTime":613.32,"body":"believe those aren't, that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":611.4,"endTime":613.32,"body":"doesn't reflect on me and my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":613.32,"endTime":617.28,"body":"values. So it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":613.32,"endTime":617.28,"body":"look at those actions and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":619.05,"endTime":622.02,"body":"acknowledge them, okay, and take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":619.05,"endTime":622.02,"body":"accountability for them, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":622.05,"endTime":626.91,"body":"easier to dismiss them and walk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":622.05,"endTime":626.91,"body":"forward. And I encourage people,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":626.94,"endTime":629.28,"body":"when I work with them addicts,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":626.94,"endTime":629.28,"body":"we're speaking of someone who"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":629.28,"endTime":632.61,"body":"has a substance abuse problem"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":629.28,"endTime":632.61,"body":"right now, whether it's drugs or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":632.61,"endTime":637.92,"body":"alcohol or whatever, you are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":632.61,"endTime":637.92,"body":"your addiction, I mean, that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":637.92,"endTime":641.07,"body":"are not your addiction. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":637.92,"endTime":641.07,"body":"Addiction is a disease of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":641.07,"endTime":644.97,"body":"mind. And under your right mind,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":641.07,"endTime":644.97,"body":"you would have not have asked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":644.97,"endTime":648.27,"body":"for this, no one signed up for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":644.97,"endTime":648.27,"body":"this. We didn't mean to do this,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":648.3,"endTime":652.32,"body":"right. It's not as much as it is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":648.3,"endTime":652.32,"body":"a choice. It doesn't feel like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":652.32,"endTime":655.86,"body":"one. And I'm not doing it to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":652.32,"endTime":655.86,"body":"anybody. I'm not trying to hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":655.86,"endTime":659.01,"body":"anyone. So it's very innocent in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":655.86,"endTime":659.01,"body":"that sense that like, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":659.01,"endTime":662.49,"body":"trying to hurt but the behaviors"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":659.01,"endTime":662.49,"body":"are not okay. Yeah, these things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":662.49,"endTime":666.27,"body":"are not okay. And there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":662.49,"endTime":666.27,"body":"consequences for behaviors, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":666.27,"endTime":670.95,"body":"hurt people badly. And it's hard"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":666.27,"endTime":670.95,"body":"for people to hold those two"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":670.95,"endTime":673.89,"body":"things. Two things can be true,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":670.95,"endTime":673.89,"body":"right? I could not have meant to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":673.89,"endTime":676.65,"body":"hurt someone. And I can also"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":673.89,"endTime":676.65,"body":"have hurt someone very badly."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":676.92,"endTime":678.78,"body":"And I have to take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":676.92,"endTime":678.78,"body":"accountability for it, even if I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":678.78,"endTime":682.14,"body":"didn't mean to do it. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":678.78,"endTime":682.14,"body":"that's no different than getting"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":682.14,"endTime":684.9,"body":"like a DWI, or something, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":682.14,"endTime":684.9,"body":"know, like, the law is not going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":684.9,"endTime":687.51,"body":"to say, well, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":684.9,"endTime":687.51,"body":"seems like a good deal, we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":687.51,"endTime":689.31,"body":"should just let them all know,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":687.51,"endTime":689.31,"body":"they're constantly there"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":689.31,"endTime":691.68,"body":"are consequences. And you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":689.31,"endTime":691.68,"body":"have to own that. And you have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":691.68,"endTime":693.72,"body":"to deal with that. And you have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":691.68,"endTime":693.72,"body":"to hold yourself accountable for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":693.72,"endTime":695.55,"body":"that. Like no one's knew"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":693.72,"endTime":695.55,"body":"the consequences. But when it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":695.55,"endTime":702.78,"body":"comes to our own identity, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":695.55,"endTime":702.78,"body":"really hard for people to to not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":703.38,"endTime":708.03,"body":"shift from guilt all the way to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":703.38,"endTime":708.03,"body":"shame. Addicts oftentimes lack"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":708.09,"endTime":712.68,"body":"what I call a guilt filter. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":708.09,"endTime":712.68,"body":"we go from you can bring up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":712.68,"endTime":716.52,"body":"something bad that I've done in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":712.68,"endTime":716.52,"body":"the past. I don't have any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":716.55,"endTime":719.58,"body":"guilt, they just go straight to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":716.55,"endTime":719.58,"body":"shame. I am horrible. I am a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":719.58,"endTime":724.77,"body":"terrible person. I suck, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":719.58,"endTime":724.77,"body":"worthless, I'm meaningless, my I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":724.77,"endTime":727.68,"body":"better off just not being here."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":724.77,"endTime":727.68,"body":"That's where we often go,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":727.709,"endTime":732.299,"body":"I go there sometimes."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":727.709,"endTime":732.299,"body":"Let's talk about I've gone there"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":732.329,"endTime":735.359,"body":"before, with like my mental"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":732.329,"endTime":735.359,"body":"illnesses and stuff and being"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":735.359,"endTime":737.609,"body":"anxious and depressed and not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":735.359,"endTime":737.609,"body":"feeling worthy. And my self"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":737.609,"endTime":740.489,"body":"esteem was shot, I would go"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":737.609,"endTime":740.489,"body":"there something that somebody"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":740.489,"endTime":742.409,"body":"brings something up to me, and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":740.489,"endTime":742.409,"body":"I'm like, Oh my gosh, it would"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":742.409,"endTime":744.809,"body":"just be better if I wasn't here."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":742.409,"endTime":744.809,"body":"Yeah, it's like the all or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":744.809,"endTime":749.339,"body":"nothing thing. I can relate."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":744.809,"endTime":749.339,"body":"Absolutely. I know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":749.339,"endTime":749.729,"body":"you're saying."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":749.73,"endTime":752.79,"body":"So what I try to do is to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":749.73,"endTime":752.79,"body":"remind people that you are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":752.79,"endTime":755.85,"body":"these actions, you you've done"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":752.79,"endTime":755.85,"body":"bad things, but you are not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":755.85,"endTime":759.21,"body":"bad person. There's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":755.85,"endTime":759.21,"body":"difference, right? I screwed up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":759.21,"endTime":762.51,"body":"versus I am a screw up. Yeah. In"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":759.21,"endTime":762.51,"body":"the beginning. That's how this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":762.51,"endTime":765.3,"body":"framed so that we can move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":762.51,"endTime":765.3,"body":"forward through the addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":765.3,"endTime":768.66,"body":"because without hope, what's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":765.3,"endTime":768.66,"body":"point of any of this? If I can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":768.66,"endTime":772.23,"body":"grow to be a happy, healthy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":768.66,"endTime":772.23,"body":"person with vibrant positive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":772.23,"endTime":775.62,"body":"relationships in my life? What's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":772.23,"endTime":775.62,"body":"the point? What's the point? So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.28,"body":"we have to tell people, listen,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":775.62,"endTime":779.28,"body":"you don't need to live in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":779.28,"endTime":783.18,"body":"past. That doesn't mean that no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":779.28,"endTime":783.18,"body":"one else can see. All right,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":783.21,"endTime":785.28,"body":"that doesn't mean that other"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":783.21,"endTime":785.28,"body":"people can't address these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":785.28,"endTime":787.47,"body":"things. At times, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":785.28,"endTime":787.47,"body":"mean they can't share their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":787.47,"endTime":791.04,"body":"feelings about how they've been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":787.47,"endTime":791.04,"body":"hurt or harmed. Yeah, it just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":791.04,"endTime":794.07,"body":"simply means that you are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":791.04,"endTime":794.07,"body":"these things. And two things can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":794.07,"endTime":798.12,"body":"be true at once again, I am not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":794.07,"endTime":798.12,"body":"my addiction, but I am"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":798.12,"endTime":801.42,"body":"responsible for the harm that I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":798.12,"endTime":801.42,"body":"caused in my addiction. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":801.42,"endTime":804.54,"body":"have to hold space for people in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":801.42,"endTime":804.54,"body":"it. So a lot of people twist"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":804.54,"endTime":806.82,"body":"this right when they're when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":804.54,"endTime":806.82,"body":"they're in treatment. And I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":806.82,"endTime":809.43,"body":"heard this more times than I can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":806.82,"endTime":809.43,"body":"count. And especially in it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":809.43,"endTime":812.16,"body":"happens in therapy too. It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":809.43,"endTime":812.16,"body":"sometimes even in 12 Step"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":812.16,"endTime":814.83,"body":"programs, someone will say,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":812.16,"endTime":814.83,"body":"like, like you mentioned, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":814.83,"endTime":817.68,"body":"my therapist, or my my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":814.83,"endTime":817.68,"body":"counselor, or whoever said that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":817.68,"endTime":820.59,"body":"we don't need to worry about the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":817.68,"endTime":820.59,"body":"past. That's not what they said,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":821.25,"endTime":825.33,"body":"that is not your that is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":821.25,"endTime":825.33,"body":"minimization of the concept that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":825.33,"endTime":829.44,"body":"we just discussed, which is you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":825.33,"endTime":829.44,"body":"are not your addiction, although"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":830.04,"endTime":832.47,"body":"you have done some things that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":830.04,"endTime":832.47,"body":"have hurt other people that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":832.47,"endTime":835.62,"body":"need to make, right? It doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":832.47,"endTime":835.62,"body":"mean you just move past things."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":835.65,"endTime":839.25,"body":"And I think that from a male"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":835.65,"endTime":839.25,"body":"perspective, this is common,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":839.28,"endTime":842.58,"body":"like this is common male stuff."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":839.28,"endTime":842.58,"body":"And what I mean by that is like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":842.91,"endTime":845.82,"body":"take it back to when we're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":842.91,"endTime":845.82,"body":"little boys and sports, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":846.12,"endTime":849.12,"body":"We go up to the plate, we strike"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":846.12,"endTime":849.12,"body":"out, we walk back to the dugout"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":849.12,"endTime":853.26,"body":"crying upset, we're shame, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":849.12,"endTime":853.26,"body":"know, like, I let everyone down."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":853.26,"endTime":857.46,"body":"I suck at this. I'm horrible."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":853.26,"endTime":857.46,"body":"And we're told, just worry about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":857.46,"endTime":860.22,"body":"the next one. Don't worry about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":857.46,"endTime":860.22,"body":"that one worry about the next"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":860.22,"endTime":863.52,"body":"one. Great athletes like Kobe"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":860.22,"endTime":863.52,"body":"and Jeter and those guys."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":863.55,"endTime":865.71,"body":"They're known for being the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":863.55,"endTime":865.71,"body":"greatest of all times and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":865.71,"endTime":868.68,"body":"Michael Jordan, because they had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":865.71,"endTime":868.68,"body":"a short memory because they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":868.68,"endTime":873.21,"body":"could they could forget about a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":868.68,"endTime":873.21,"body":"mistake that they made and move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":873.21,"endTime":876.75,"body":"past it and continue to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":873.21,"endTime":876.75,"body":"great. They didn't harp on the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":876.75,"endTime":879.81,"body":"mistakes. But it's not to say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":876.75,"endTime":879.81,"body":"they didn't learn from the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":879.81,"endTime":882.09,"body":"mistakes. That's what they don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":879.81,"endTime":882.09,"body":"talk about and sayings like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":882.09,"endTime":884.34,"body":"that. Yeah, it's not just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":882.09,"endTime":884.34,"body":"forgetting about the mistake."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":884.34,"endTime":887.7,"body":"It's you made a mistake. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":884.34,"endTime":887.7,"body":"that doesn't define you. What"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":887.7,"endTime":890.37,"body":"can we learn from that mistake?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":887.7,"endTime":890.37,"body":"How are we going to be better"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":890.37,"endTime":894.3,"body":"moving forward? Right. You use"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":890.37,"endTime":894.3,"body":"those mistakes as"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":894.3,"endTime":898.14,"body":"a tool? Yeah, like that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":894.3,"endTime":898.14,"body":"episode on failure is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":898.17,"endTime":900.45,"body":"no such thing as failure."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":898.17,"endTime":900.45,"body":"Yeah, exactly. until you just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":900.45,"endTime":904.17,"body":"give up. There's no such thing."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":900.45,"endTime":904.17,"body":"But I think as like, from a male"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":904.17,"endTime":906.87,"body":"perspective like this, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":904.17,"endTime":906.87,"body":"permeates male culture, I can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":906.87,"endTime":909.51,"body":"just speak as a male. Here's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":906.87,"endTime":909.51,"body":"guy that yeah, we tell people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":909.51,"endTime":912.0,"body":"like do just move on Get over"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":909.51,"endTime":912.0,"body":"it. It's okay. Like worry about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":912.0,"endTime":914.4,"body":"the next one. There'll be no,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":912.0,"endTime":914.4,"body":"there's plenty of fish in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":914.4,"endTime":917.67,"body":"sea. Like there's a million"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":914.4,"endTime":917.67,"body":"variations of this. But I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":917.67,"endTime":921.03,"body":"people miss apply this when it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":917.67,"endTime":921.03,"body":"comes to what's happened in your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":921.03,"endTime":924.06,"body":"marriage, what's happened in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":921.03,"endTime":924.06,"body":"your relationship, when the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":924.06,"endTime":926.88,"body":"things that we have done and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":924.06,"endTime":926.88,"body":"caused harm? I think that and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":927.15,"endTime":929.73,"body":"I'll let you speak for yourself"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":927.15,"endTime":929.73,"body":"here. But you wanted to move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":929.73,"endTime":932.85,"body":"forward to right, you looked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":929.73,"endTime":932.85,"body":"forward to marriage one day,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":932.88,"endTime":935.79,"body":"yeah. So it's not to say that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":932.88,"endTime":935.79,"body":"you guys don't like talk? No,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":935.789,"endTime":938.189,"body":"but it's not fair. But"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":935.789,"endTime":938.189,"body":"it's not like I can just say,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":938.219,"endTime":941.309,"body":"Oh, I'm just gonna forgive and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":938.219,"endTime":941.309,"body":"forget, I'm just gonna let go of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":941.309,"endTime":943.919,"body":"the things that happened in the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":941.309,"endTime":943.919,"body":"past, it doesn't work that way."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":943.919,"endTime":947.429,"body":"Because I'm not feeling safe"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":943.919,"endTime":947.429,"body":"until you start proving to me"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":947.429,"endTime":949.529,"body":"over and over again, that these"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":947.429,"endTime":949.529,"body":"behaviors are not going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":949.529,"endTime":953.549,"body":"happen again. And that takes"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":949.529,"endTime":953.549,"body":"accountability, and it takes"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":953.549,"endTime":955.049,"body":"action, and it takes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":955.05,"endTime":959.31,"body":"work. And that's not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":955.05,"endTime":959.31,"body":"punishment. And it's not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":959.31,"endTime":963.12,"body":"requirement, either. But I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":959.31,"endTime":963.12,"body":"that it is a request. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":963.12,"endTime":966.24,"body":"think that if you want a happy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":963.12,"endTime":966.24,"body":"relationship, if you want what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":966.24,"endTime":970.35,"body":"we have, you need to do that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":966.24,"endTime":970.35,"body":"That has to be part of it, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":970.35,"endTime":974.79,"body":"have never seen anyone just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":970.35,"endTime":974.79,"body":"forget about it, and move on,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":974.97,"endTime":978.9,"body":"and find that to be any sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":974.97,"endTime":978.9,"body":"long term plan for success in a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":978.9,"endTime":982.89,"body":"relationship ever, eventually"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":978.9,"endTime":982.89,"body":"comes back up all the time,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":982.89,"endTime":985.2,"body":"emotions buried alive, never"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":982.89,"endTime":985.2,"body":"die, these things will dig"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":985.2,"endTime":986.31,"body":"themselves out. Because it's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":986.31,"endTime":990.03,"body":"my life, too. It's not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":986.31,"endTime":990.03,"body":"just your life, right? I was a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":990.03,"endTime":993.33,"body":"part of this life. Therefore,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":990.03,"endTime":993.33,"body":"when you say, let's just put the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":993.33,"endTime":995.94,"body":"past behind you, you're telling"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":993.33,"endTime":995.94,"body":"me that my emotions, my"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":995.94,"endTime":999.33,"body":"feelings, and my experience"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":995.94,"endTime":999.33,"body":"doesn't matter? Yeah, I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":999.33,"endTime":1002.81,"body":"that my feelings are more"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":999.33,"endTime":1002.81,"body":"important than yours and mine."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1002.99,"endTime":1006.02,"body":"And then that's just gonna make"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1002.99,"endTime":1006.02,"body":"me feel even lower. Like there's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1006.02,"endTime":1009.32,"body":"no empathy there. And that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1006.02,"endTime":1009.32,"body":"important to have in a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1009.32,"endTime":1010.58,"body":"relationship, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1010.58,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"have to have empathy. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1010.58,"endTime":1014.93,"body":"you have to. So I think kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1014.96,"endTime":1018.53,"body":"to where we started, like this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1014.96,"endTime":1018.53,"body":"idea that we just move past it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1018.53,"endTime":1021.89,"body":"And it gets bastardized this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1018.53,"endTime":1021.89,"body":"whole idea that we just move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1021.89,"endTime":1024.53,"body":"past these things, we just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1021.89,"endTime":1024.53,"body":"forget about them. Let's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1024.56,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"Let's just keep chugging, let's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1024.56,"endTime":1027.02,"body":"not worry about all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1027.41,"endTime":1030.38,"body":"No timeout, we need to take a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1027.41,"endTime":1030.38,"body":"step back. That's for you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1030.38,"endTime":1034.25,"body":"That's not for everyone around"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1030.38,"endTime":1034.25,"body":"you exactly. As, as someone who"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.46,"body":"has struggled from addiction."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.46,"body":"Most of my life, like I can tell"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1037.46,"endTime":1040.58,"body":"you like I know why that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1037.46,"endTime":1040.58,"body":"important. Because I could have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1040.58,"endTime":1043.37,"body":"never moved forward if I didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1040.58,"endTime":1043.37,"body":"accept myself in the beginning."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1043.43,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"Yeah. Like I couldn't accept"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1043.43,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"myself, how was I ever going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1046.25,"endTime":1048.95,"body":"allow anyone else to forgive me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1046.25,"endTime":1048.95,"body":"if I couldn't forgive myself for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1048.95,"endTime":1049.67,"body":"these things?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1053.78,"body":"Right. And in order for,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1050.15,"endTime":1053.78,"body":"you have to forgive yourself,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1053.78,"endTime":1057.08,"body":"and once you forgive yourself,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1053.78,"endTime":1057.08,"body":"it's easier for you to take"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1057.14,"endTime":1059.42,"body":"accountability for the things"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1057.14,"endTime":1059.42,"body":"you did and how you harm"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1059.42,"endTime":1060.32,"body":"somebody else. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1060.32,"endTime":1064.1,"body":"like, it's sort of like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1060.32,"endTime":1064.1,"body":"that thing. Like, you can't hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1064.1,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"me. If I've already said exactly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1064.1,"endTime":1067.97,"body":"right. You know, yeah, there's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1067.97,"endTime":1068.87,"body":"better way to say that."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1068.899,"endTime":1070.879,"body":"I know, I know what"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1068.899,"endTime":1070.879,"body":"you're saying. Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1070.909,"endTime":1071.239,"body":"Like, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1071.239,"endTime":1072.679,"body":"can't hurt me with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1071.239,"endTime":1072.679,"body":"information. I've already"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1075.379,"body":"volunteered. Yeah, you can't use"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1072.679,"endTime":1075.379,"body":"it against me. So"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1075.38,"endTime":1077.54,"body":"what about like in early"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1075.38,"endTime":1077.54,"body":"recovery, when they say, okay,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1077.54,"endTime":1079.82,"body":"don't bring up what we did in"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1077.54,"endTime":1079.82,"body":"the past, because you're just"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1079.82,"endTime":1081.86,"body":"going to trigger me. That's,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1082.22,"endTime":1085.07,"body":"listen, your triggers are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1082.22,"endTime":1085.07,"body":"your responsibility. Great. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1085.79,"endTime":1091.07,"body":"here's what I did. I had a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1085.79,"endTime":1091.07,"body":"healthy recovery group that I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1093.74,"body":"would frequent. It was a 12 step"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1091.07,"endTime":1093.74,"body":"group. But outside of that, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1093.74,"endTime":1097.34,"body":"also had people in my life that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1093.74,"endTime":1097.34,"body":"were either sober, and they had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1097.34,"endTime":1099.56,"body":"been through this before, or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1097.34,"endTime":1099.56,"body":"they were just growth minded"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1101.81,"body":"individuals, people that took"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1099.56,"endTime":1101.81,"body":"accountability for their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1101.81,"endTime":1104.33,"body":"actions, who had made a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1101.81,"endTime":1104.33,"body":"mistakes is like people in my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1104.33,"endTime":1108.89,"body":"professional life, and move,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1104.33,"endTime":1108.89,"body":"move past them. And so I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1108.89,"endTime":1112.1,"body":"surrounded myself with these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1108.89,"endTime":1112.1,"body":"people. And anytime that this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1112.1,"endTime":1115.25,"body":"stuff would come up, I would"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1112.1,"endTime":1115.25,"body":"reach out, or I would hear"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1115.25,"endTime":1117.71,"body":"stories and going to meetings"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1115.25,"endTime":1117.71,"body":"and things like that, from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1117.71,"endTime":1120.5,"body":"people who had dealt with this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1117.71,"endTime":1120.5,"body":"and how they, how they addressed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1120.5,"endTime":1124.07,"body":"it. The sickest of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1120.5,"endTime":1124.07,"body":"relationships that I see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1124.07,"endTime":1126.65,"body":"personally are those in which"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1124.07,"endTime":1126.65,"body":"someone has just stopped"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1126.65,"endTime":1130.49,"body":"drinking. And they may like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1126.65,"endTime":1130.49,"body":"they'll sort of like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1130.49,"endTime":1134.81,"body":"performatively go to an AAA"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1130.49,"endTime":1134.81,"body":"meeting a month, or they'll go"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1134.81,"endTime":1137.48,"body":"to counseling once a month or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1134.81,"endTime":1137.48,"body":"every other week or something"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1137.48,"endTime":1140.15,"body":"like that. Like there's no real"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1137.48,"endTime":1140.15,"body":"work being done. Yeah. Think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1140.15,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"about it. If you wanted to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1140.15,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"fit, what happens if you work"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1145.46,"body":"out or eat right? Once a week?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1145.46,"body":"Exactly? Nothing? Nothing?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1145.58,"endTime":1147.95,"body":"Nothing? No, absolutely not. No,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1145.58,"endTime":1147.95,"body":"you're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1147.95,"endTime":1150.53,"body":"not building any any"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1147.95,"endTime":1150.53,"body":"positive habits or discipline"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1150.53,"endTime":1151.25,"body":"and recovery. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1151.25,"endTime":1156.2,"body":"we're trying to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1151.25,"endTime":1156.2,"body":"shredded? Like, yes, like, yes,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1156.29,"endTime":1159.38,"body":"you have to it has to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1156.29,"endTime":1159.38,"body":"frequent, right? This has to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1159.38,"endTime":1162.08,"body":"something that's repeated,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1159.38,"endTime":1162.08,"body":"almost beat into your head to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1162.08,"endTime":1164.54,"body":"the point where you're like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1162.08,"endTime":1164.54,"body":"Okay, I get it now. Because you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1164.54,"endTime":1167.21,"body":"have to have enough experiences"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1164.54,"endTime":1167.21,"body":"from others to recall when this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1167.21,"endTime":1169.85,"body":"happens to you because it will,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1167.21,"endTime":1169.85,"body":"something will come up. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1169.85,"endTime":1174.26,"body":"could say something to me, and I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1169.85,"endTime":1174.26,"body":"feel shame. I don't get to tell"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1174.26,"endTime":1177.5,"body":"you, you can't feel a certain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1174.26,"endTime":1177.5,"body":"way. Yeah. And you're sure that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1177.5,"endTime":1181.13,"body":"it's not helpful, though."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1177.5,"endTime":1181.13,"body":"Listen, that there comes a point"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1181.13,"endTime":1184.25,"body":"and we've talked about this, but"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1181.13,"endTime":1184.25,"body":"it is so circumstantial, and the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1184.25,"endTime":1187.73,"body":"context of it is so specific,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1184.25,"endTime":1187.73,"body":"but people like to throw this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1187.73,"endTime":1190.97,"body":"out there like it happens all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1187.73,"endTime":1190.97,"body":"the time. Let's say so I will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1190.97,"endTime":1195.47,"body":"celebrate 11 years sober on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1190.97,"endTime":1195.47,"body":"Saturday, 11 years removed from"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1195.47,"endTime":1198.65,"body":"this thing now I have taken"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1195.47,"endTime":1198.65,"body":"accountability for my actions. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1198.65,"endTime":1201.56,"body":"have recovered. I can continue"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1198.65,"endTime":1201.56,"body":"to help other people. I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1201.56,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"changed my behaviors. I am a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1201.56,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"different person almost"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1204.44,"endTime":1207.98,"body":"unrecognizable. Yeah. If you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1204.44,"endTime":1207.98,"body":"woke up Saturday morning, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1207.98,"endTime":1211.43,"body":"you jumped my ask for something"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1207.98,"endTime":1211.43,"body":"that happened 11 years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1211.43,"endTime":1215.03,"body":"would still to this day hold"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1211.43,"endTime":1215.03,"body":"space for that. I would let you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1215.03,"endTime":1217.82,"body":"know, it's okay that you feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1215.03,"endTime":1217.82,"body":"this way, understand why you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1217.82,"endTime":1221.18,"body":"feel this way. But if you wanted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1217.82,"endTime":1221.18,"body":"to be upset about it, at some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1221.18,"endTime":1224.36,"body":"point, it does turn to you. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1221.18,"endTime":1224.36,"body":"your response, your healing is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1224.36,"endTime":1226.91,"body":"your responsibility. Because I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1224.36,"endTime":1226.91,"body":"have done all the things that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1226.91,"endTime":1229.37,"body":"just mentioned. Yeah, right."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1226.91,"endTime":1229.37,"body":"Yeah. But that doesn't really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1229.37,"endTime":1231.62,"body":"happen. But people like to throw"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1229.37,"endTime":1231.62,"body":"it out there, like it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1231.62,"endTime":1234.71,"body":"happen. And so it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1231.62,"endTime":1234.71,"body":"a can't win. Don't try sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1234.71,"endTime":1237.17,"body":"situation where it's like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1234.71,"endTime":1237.17,"body":"man, what's the point? They're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1237.17,"endTime":1239.69,"body":"just gonna keep bringing it up."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1237.17,"endTime":1239.69,"body":"And that's not true. That's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1239.69,"endTime":1241.76,"body":"not true. It's not been my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1239.69,"endTime":1241.76,"body":"experience with experience, have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1241.76,"endTime":1243.98,"body":"anyone else that I've worked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1241.76,"endTime":1243.98,"body":"with, tell you that right now."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1244.07,"endTime":1246.71,"body":"I mean, I have to applaud"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1244.07,"endTime":1246.71,"body":"you. There have been things"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1246.71,"endTime":1250.34,"body":"throughout the years that I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1246.71,"endTime":1250.34,"body":"have, you know, brought up"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1250.4,"endTime":1253.91,"body":"multiple times, because I had"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1250.4,"endTime":1253.91,"body":"been scarred from it for so"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1253.91,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"long. Because the behavior, the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1253.91,"endTime":1257.33,"body":"pattern happened for so long,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1257.57,"endTime":1261.14,"body":"that it took years for you to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1257.57,"endTime":1261.14,"body":"give me space and still say, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1261.14,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"know, I'm, I'm still working on"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1261.14,"endTime":1265.43,"body":"it, you know, I'm still showing"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1265.43,"endTime":1268.55,"body":"behaviors. I'm sorry that I did"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1265.43,"endTime":1268.55,"body":"that back in the day, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1268.55,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"but you always had that space"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1268.55,"endTime":1273.17,"body":"for me to bring it up to you."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1273.29,"endTime":1274.64,"body":"And I appreciate that. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1274.64,"endTime":1277.79,"body":"day one. I was taught"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1274.64,"endTime":1277.79,"body":"this, I didn't just come up with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1277.79,"endTime":1280.31,"body":"my own. Again, I was taught"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1277.79,"endTime":1280.31,"body":"this, which is why community is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1280.31,"endTime":1284.0,"body":"really important that you were"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1280.31,"endTime":1284.0,"body":"allowed to heal on your terms."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1284.0,"endTime":1287.51,"body":"And on your time, my job was to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1284.0,"endTime":1287.51,"body":"keep doing the next right thing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1291.74,"body":"to be the person that I said"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1291.74,"body":"that I would be, and let the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1291.74,"endTime":1295.97,"body":"chips fall as they may, I can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1291.74,"endTime":1295.97,"body":"control you. I can't control"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1295.97,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"your feelings or how you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1295.97,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"going to feel about anything."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1301.52,"body":"And I can't shame you for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1299.0,"endTime":1301.52,"body":"feeling any way because you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1301.52,"endTime":1303.62,"body":"wouldn't be feeling that way. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1301.52,"endTime":1303.62,"body":"I had done it in the first"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1303.62,"endTime":1306.77,"body":"place. Yeah. So I took ruthless"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1303.62,"endTime":1306.77,"body":"accountability for that. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1306.77,"endTime":1309.14,"body":"just let you have your space."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1309.35,"endTime":1315.56,"body":"Why is it important for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1309.35,"endTime":1315.56,"body":"my healing process for you to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1315.56,"endTime":1317.84,"body":"have to acknowledge that you did"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1315.56,"endTime":1317.84,"body":"wrong?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1318.439,"endTime":1321.319,"body":"Because it's about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1318.439,"endTime":1321.319,"body":"accountability, right? It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1321.319,"endTime":1323.479,"body":"accountability. And any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1321.319,"endTime":1323.479,"body":"relationship without"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1323.479,"endTime":1326.359,"body":"accountability is no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1323.479,"endTime":1326.359,"body":"relationship at all. You have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1326.359,"endTime":1328.639,"body":"have accountability for your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1326.359,"endTime":1328.639,"body":"actions,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1331.76,"body":"but also it provides a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1331.76,"body":"safe space for me. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1331.76,"endTime":1333.95,"body":"you can't feel safe with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1331.76,"endTime":1333.95,"body":"someone if you're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1333.95,"endTime":1337.91,"body":"accountable. Like if I can't say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1333.95,"endTime":1337.91,"body":"I did this thing, I feel badly"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1337.91,"endTime":1341.21,"body":"that I hurt you what I did was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1337.91,"endTime":1341.21,"body":"wrong. What can I do to make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1341.21,"endTime":1344.93,"body":"that right? Make an amends."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1341.21,"endTime":1344.93,"body":"Essentially, there is no basis"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1344.93,"endTime":1350.27,"body":"for trust, or openness or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1344.93,"endTime":1350.27,"body":"vulnerability, or any sort of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1350.3,"endTime":1351.86,"body":"honest communication in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1350.3,"endTime":1351.86,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1352.369,"endTime":1354.799,"body":"So and that's why it's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1352.369,"endTime":1354.799,"body":"hard for us to just say,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1354.829,"endTime":1357.319,"body":"Alright, forget the past. Let's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1354.829,"endTime":1357.319,"body":"just move on, let's just move"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1357.319,"endTime":1362.299,"body":"forward. Because we can't be"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1357.319,"endTime":1362.299,"body":"trusted that you're going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1362.329,"endTime":1365.119,"body":"change your behaviors. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1362.329,"endTime":1365.119,"body":"Until you hold yourself"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1365.119,"endTime":1368.029,"body":"accountable and say, Hey, I'm"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1365.119,"endTime":1368.029,"body":"trying let me You know, I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1368.029,"endTime":1371.299,"body":"apologize for that. Let me see"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1368.029,"endTime":1371.299,"body":"what I can do better. What can I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1371.299,"endTime":1371.779,"body":"do better?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1371.81,"endTime":1374.21,"body":"Yeah. So let's break it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1371.81,"endTime":1374.21,"body":"down. Why does someone keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1374.21,"endTime":1378.26,"body":"bringing things up? They're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1374.21,"endTime":1378.26,"body":"looking for reassurance that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1378.59,"endTime":1381.29,"body":"things are going to be okay."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1378.59,"endTime":1381.29,"body":"That's what they're doing."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1381.68,"endTime":1384.5,"body":"Oftentimes, I find that when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1381.68,"endTime":1384.5,"body":"you're breaking things up,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1387.74,"body":"there's a reason for it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1384.62,"endTime":1387.74,"body":"Sometimes it's just unresolved,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1387.83,"endTime":1390.44,"body":"which is, for a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1387.83,"endTime":1390.44,"body":"things, it's just unresolved,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1390.44,"endTime":1393.17,"body":"and we've never really addressed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1390.44,"endTime":1393.17,"body":"it. And you'll notice a behavior"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1393.17,"endTime":1395.69,"body":"that reminds you of it. And so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1393.17,"endTime":1395.69,"body":"it triggers it, it brings it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1395.69,"endTime":1399.32,"body":"back. It's right back to the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1395.69,"endTime":1399.32,"body":"forefront. So unresolved trauma"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1399.32,"endTime":1401.0,"body":"is like the first piece of it."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1401.03,"endTime":1404.09,"body":"Yeah. And it's okay for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1401.03,"endTime":1404.09,"body":"me to feel the way I feel. Yes."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1404.09,"endTime":1408.26,"body":"And it's okay for me to bring it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1404.09,"endTime":1408.26,"body":"up. And how you react is not on"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1408.26,"endTime":1412.04,"body":"me, because I bring something"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1408.26,"endTime":1412.04,"body":"up. That is that's it's how I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1412.04,"endTime":1416.12,"body":"feel. Again, it's all about"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1412.04,"endTime":1416.12,"body":"about you guys. If we have to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1416.12,"endTime":1418.4,"body":"keep our mouths shut on this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1416.12,"endTime":1418.4,"body":"stuff. Yep. Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1418.4,"endTime":1419.18,"body":"frustrating."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1422.15,"body":"It's, it has to be I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1419.21,"endTime":1422.15,"body":"never been in well, actually, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1422.15,"endTime":1425.81,"body":"had a different situation. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1422.15,"endTime":1425.81,"body":"Never been in like, I wasn't in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1425.81,"endTime":1429.77,"body":"your shoes, obviously. But what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1425.81,"endTime":1429.77,"body":"people are doing is they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1429.77,"endTime":1433.22,"body":"looking for assurance that it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1429.77,"endTime":1433.22,"body":"safe, that it's okay, that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1433.22,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"can come out of the storm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1433.22,"endTime":1435.56,"body":"shelter now everything's okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1438.11,"body":"the tornado is gone. And that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1435.56,"endTime":1438.11,"body":"what they're doing. They're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1438.11,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"essentially just looking for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1438.11,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"that. And that starts with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1440.51,"endTime":1443.45,"body":"validation, saying like, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1440.51,"endTime":1443.45,"body":"understand why you would feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1443.45,"endTime":1446.39,"body":"that way. Validating is not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1443.45,"endTime":1446.39,"body":"agreeing with something that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1446.39,"endTime":1449.39,"body":"disagree with. It's simply"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1446.39,"endTime":1449.39,"body":"having enough empathy, to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1449.39,"endTime":1451.88,"body":"able to put your self in that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1449.39,"endTime":1451.88,"body":"person's shoes and understand"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1451.88,"endTime":1454.31,"body":"why they would have that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1451.88,"endTime":1454.31,"body":"emotion, letting them know their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"emotion is okay. You can have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"that emotion. That's totally"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1457.31,"endTime":1457.73,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1457.97,"endTime":1460.22,"body":"Yeah, but I think that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1457.97,"endTime":1460.22,"body":"a lot of the reason why our"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1460.22,"endTime":1465.44,"body":"marriage has been able to move"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1460.22,"endTime":1465.44,"body":"through all of this is because"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1465.44,"endTime":1469.4,"body":"you did take accountability and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1465.44,"endTime":1469.4,"body":"held space for me, and I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1469.4,"endTime":1470.39,"body":"appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1470.51,"endTime":1473.42,"body":"Well, thank you. But it's,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1470.51,"endTime":1473.42,"body":"I think it's like the bare"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1473.42,"endTime":1476.72,"body":"minimum bar. Honestly, like I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1473.42,"endTime":1476.72,"body":"think this should take place in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1476.72,"endTime":1479.36,"body":"any relationship. But in these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1476.72,"endTime":1479.36,"body":"types of relationships, I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1479.36,"endTime":1481.19,"body":"that you're absolutely doomed."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1479.36,"endTime":1481.19,"body":"It"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1481.19,"endTime":1485.03,"body":"is very rare, Matt, to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1481.19,"endTime":1485.03,"body":"have that acknowledgement."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1485.81,"endTime":1487.01,"body":"Shouldn't be, oh, I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1487.01,"endTime":1489.11,"body":"know that. But that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1487.01,"endTime":1489.11,"body":"just the reality of it. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1489.11,"endTime":1490.91,"body":"that's why we're here and that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1489.11,"endTime":1490.91,"body":"why we're trying to have this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1490.91,"endTime":1494.03,"body":"conversation. Are we having all"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1490.91,"endTime":1494.03,"body":"of these conversations is to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1494.03,"endTime":1495.32,"body":"bring awareness to it?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1495.59,"endTime":1499.19,"body":"Yeah. So when your wife is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1495.59,"endTime":1499.19,"body":"bringing up the past as people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1499.19,"endTime":1502.61,"body":"often put it It's it's nothing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1499.19,"endTime":1502.61,"body":"more than her just seeking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1502.61,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"safety. Just wanting to know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1502.61,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"that, like, it's the assurance"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1505.76,"endTime":1510.26,"body":"that there is. Won't have you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1505.76,"endTime":1510.26,"body":"won't hurt me again. That's all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1510.26,"endTime":1513.71,"body":"they're doing. That's it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1510.26,"endTime":1513.71,"body":"So if you've never addressed it,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1513.71,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"why do you think they keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1513.71,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"bringing it up?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1515.689,"endTime":1522.019,"body":"So do you have a an"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1515.689,"endTime":1522.019,"body":"example of how a partner can"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1522.019,"endTime":1526.669,"body":"bring this up to somebody that's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1522.019,"endTime":1526.669,"body":"struggling? Like, how can they"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1526.669,"endTime":1529.909,"body":"bring it up and have their"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1526.669,"endTime":1529.909,"body":"partner hear them? Instead of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1529.909,"endTime":1532.219,"body":"being you know, accusatory, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1529.909,"endTime":1532.219,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1532.37,"endTime":1535.61,"body":"well, it starts with,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1532.37,"endTime":1535.61,"body":"okay, so you can say whatever"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1535.61,"endTime":1538.88,"body":"you want, there is no right or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1535.61,"endTime":1538.88,"body":"wrong way to say it necessarily."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1542.18,"body":"You can say you can have the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1539.72,"endTime":1542.18,"body":"most perfect eloquent words in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1542.18,"endTime":1545.09,"body":"the world. But if this person is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1542.18,"endTime":1545.09,"body":"in a position where they don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1545.09,"endTime":1548.18,"body":"agree that the past is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1545.09,"endTime":1548.18,"body":"important, it's pointless. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1548.18,"endTime":1552.32,"body":"So starts with the person will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1548.18,"endTime":1552.32,"body":"call them the betrayer. Right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1552.35,"endTime":1554.75,"body":"Okay. The person that has"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1552.35,"endTime":1554.75,"body":"betrayed the trust, yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1554.75,"endTime":1557.21,"body":"what I meant by that person has"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1554.75,"endTime":1557.21,"body":"betrayed the trust, it starts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1557.21,"endTime":1561.47,"body":"with me. So I have to be okay"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1557.21,"endTime":1561.47,"body":"with me. First, I have to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1561.47,"endTime":1564.2,"body":"okay with who I am, I have to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1561.47,"endTime":1564.2,"body":"okay with the things I've done,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1564.74,"endTime":1568.88,"body":"that I've hurt people. But that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1564.74,"endTime":1568.88,"body":"there is hope that you are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1568.88,"endTime":1571.49,"body":"this person. You don't have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1568.88,"endTime":1571.49,"body":"be this person forever, that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1571.49,"endTime":1574.31,"body":"can move forward. And there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1571.49,"endTime":1574.31,"body":"still some people to this day,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1574.31,"endTime":1577.31,"body":"who still tear me apart, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1574.31,"endTime":1577.31,"body":"oh, I don't care who you are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1577.31,"endTime":1580.61,"body":"today. What you did is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1577.31,"endTime":1580.61,"body":"unforgivable. I'm like, You're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1580.64,"endTime":1583.46,"body":"you can have that belief. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1580.64,"endTime":1583.46,"body":"fine. I disagree. But that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1583.46,"endTime":1587.54,"body":"fine. But you have to be okay"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1583.46,"endTime":1587.54,"body":"with that. So that starts with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1587.54,"endTime":1590.36,"body":"that, or else nothing, nothing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1587.54,"endTime":1590.36,"body":"else here matters. But when it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1590.36,"endTime":1593.18,"body":"comes to how do you bring"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1590.36,"endTime":1593.18,"body":"something up from the past"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1593.18,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"that's hurt you, you can simply"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1593.18,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"say, when x happened, I felt"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1600.89,"body":"so I feel when this"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1600.89,"body":"happened, I always screw those"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1600.89,"endTime":1601.37,"body":"up. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1601.909,"endTime":1604.849,"body":"I feel when you so if I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1601.909,"endTime":1604.849,"body":"were to come home late, this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1604.849,"endTime":1608.179,"body":"happened a few times, because I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1604.849,"endTime":1608.179,"body":"was I was the type of guy that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1608.179,"endTime":1612.049,"body":"would just make like, send all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1608.179,"endTime":1612.049,"body":"kinds of crazy texts about, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1612.049,"endTime":1614.509,"body":"I gotta stay late at work, or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1612.049,"endTime":1614.509,"body":"I've got to run an errand to go"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1614.509,"endTime":1617.089,"body":"meet a customer. And I'd be gone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1614.509,"endTime":1617.089,"body":"for like three or four hours,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1617.089,"endTime":1621.469,"body":"but I was just buying pills or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1617.089,"endTime":1621.469,"body":"getting high or getting drunk or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1621.499,"endTime":1626.359,"body":"just doing whatever. So me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1621.499,"endTime":1626.359,"body":"running late was a very big deal"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1626.359,"endTime":1630.379,"body":"in our relationship. And after I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1626.359,"endTime":1630.379,"body":"got sober, it's not like I could"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1630.379,"endTime":1633.679,"body":"avoid being late forever, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1630.379,"endTime":1633.679,"body":"still happened. When I would"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1633.679,"endTime":1638.599,"body":"come home, you would be upset,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1633.679,"endTime":1638.599,"body":"visibly upset. I would notice it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1638.599,"endTime":1642.799,"body":"right away. And I'd be like, are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1638.599,"endTime":1642.799,"body":"you okay? And you would be kind"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1642.799,"endTime":1645.679,"body":"of short about it. And sometimes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1642.799,"endTime":1645.679,"body":"you would flip out, you would be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1645.679,"endTime":1648.589,"body":"like, I just, you run late"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1645.679,"endTime":1648.589,"body":"again, and you tell me why you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1648.589,"endTime":1650.599,"body":"were running late. And I just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1648.589,"endTime":1650.599,"body":"don't trust you. And it's like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1650.869,"endTime":1654.199,"body":"I have in that moment a decision"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1650.869,"endTime":1654.199,"body":"to make, I can either respond in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1654.199,"endTime":1657.589,"body":"defense, or I can just let it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1654.199,"endTime":1657.589,"body":"fly. So once again, it starts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1657.589,"endTime":1660.589,"body":"with me. I'll just let you talk."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1657.589,"endTime":1660.589,"body":"And at the end of it, I would"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1660.589,"endTime":1663.769,"body":"say, I understand why you felt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1660.589,"endTime":1663.769,"body":"that way completely understand."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1663.829,"endTime":1667.189,"body":"I would feel the same way. Was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1663.829,"endTime":1667.189,"body":"that hard for you to do? No, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1667.189,"endTime":1670.939,"body":"really wasn't? No, when I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1667.189,"endTime":1670.939,"body":"approached it in, like knowing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1670.939,"endTime":1674.719,"body":"what was happening. I knew why"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1670.939,"endTime":1674.719,"body":"you felt that way. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1674.719,"endTime":1677.809,"body":"understood, I would feel the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1674.719,"endTime":1677.809,"body":"same way because I had empathy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1677.899,"endTime":1682.219,"body":"that I would feel the same way."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1677.899,"endTime":1682.219,"body":"Right? They were you? No, no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1682.219,"endTime":1685.009,"body":"does. She's freaking out. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1682.219,"endTime":1685.009,"body":"okay, though. Yep. But you've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1685.009,"endTime":1688.189,"body":"gotten better about it now to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1685.009,"endTime":1688.189,"body":"where you'll say, you're almost"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1688.189,"endTime":1691.339,"body":"frustrated with yourself now"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1688.189,"endTime":1691.339,"body":"where it's like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1691.339,"endTime":1695.809,"body":"why I did it. But I was. I just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1691.339,"endTime":1695.809,"body":"I was reminded of an old"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1695.809,"endTime":1699.199,"body":"behavior when you were late. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1695.809,"endTime":1699.199,"body":"would say it like that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1699.229,"endTime":1701.479,"body":"And so now we're having a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1699.229,"endTime":1701.479,"body":"conversation about it. You're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1701.479,"endTime":1704.659,"body":"not attacking me for making you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1701.479,"endTime":1704.659,"body":"feel any sort of way you own the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1704.659,"endTime":1709.549,"body":"emotion by saying I felt I felt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1704.659,"endTime":1709.549,"body":"anxious, or I felt upset. I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1709.549,"endTime":1715.789,"body":"even mad at myself, when you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1709.549,"endTime":1715.789,"body":"were 30 minutes late. That's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1715.789,"endTime":1719.929,"body":"healthier way to approach it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1715.789,"endTime":1719.929,"body":"Yeah. Don't pay if you're going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1719.929,"endTime":1723.079,"body":"to come at somebody and say,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1719.929,"endTime":1723.079,"body":"You're responsible for all my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1723.079,"endTime":1728.059,"body":"feelings. In this person is not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1723.079,"endTime":1728.059,"body":"in a healthy space and recovery."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1728.059,"endTime":1731.239,"body":"If it's early on, especially"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1728.059,"endTime":1731.239,"body":"when it's just very new. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1731.239,"endTime":1733.729,"body":"probably going to result in an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1731.239,"endTime":1733.729,"body":"argument. Yeah, I would implore"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1733.729,"endTime":1738.619,"body":"the person who's had problems"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1733.729,"endTime":1738.619,"body":"with substance abuse. To do what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1738.619,"endTime":1743.059,"body":"I said, empathy. It starts with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1738.619,"endTime":1743.059,"body":"empathy. What would you do? How"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1743.059,"endTime":1746.239,"body":"would you feel? If someone had"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1743.059,"endTime":1746.239,"body":"done the exact same thing to you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1746.239,"endTime":1749.239,"body":"for many, many years? How would"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1746.239,"endTime":1749.239,"body":"you feel in that moment? Is it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1749.239,"endTime":1753.829,"body":"reasonable to feel like they are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1749.239,"endTime":1753.829,"body":"right now? Yes, it is. Okay. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1753.829,"endTime":1756.049,"body":"just let them feel that way for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1753.829,"endTime":1756.049,"body":"a moment. And then you can have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1756.049,"endTime":1759.709,"body":"a conversation about I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1756.049,"endTime":1759.709,"body":"defend myself. I have never, in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1759.709,"endTime":1764.359,"body":"11 years, I don't think I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1759.709,"endTime":1764.359,"body":"ever said, I've, I've not been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1764.359,"endTime":1767.869,"body":"that person for 11 years. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1764.359,"endTime":1767.869,"body":"need to get over it. Have I ever"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1767.869,"endTime":1768.439,"body":"said that?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1768.499,"endTime":1772.009,"body":"No. No, I mean, you've"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1768.499,"endTime":1772.009,"body":"Well, you've said some things"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1772.009,"endTime":1774.229,"body":"like, okay, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1772.009,"endTime":1774.229,"body":"working on it, you'll get"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1774.229,"endTime":1776.719,"body":"frustrated, you will get"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1774.229,"endTime":1776.719,"body":"frustrated with some things that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1776.719,"endTime":1780.349,"body":"I've said and you're like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1776.719,"endTime":1780.349,"body":"I'm working on it. Just you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1780.349,"endTime":1783.379,"body":"know, why can't you trust me?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1780.349,"endTime":1783.379,"body":"And there's one big thing that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1783.379,"endTime":1785.749,"body":"we've had arguments about that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1783.379,"endTime":1785.749,"body":"you really were getting"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1785.749,"endTime":1789.679,"body":"frustrated with me over so now"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1785.749,"endTime":1789.679,"body":"you've you've been frustrated as"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1789.679,"endTime":1790.159,"body":"well. Okay."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1792.74,"body":"Yeah. And what she's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1792.74,"body":"referring to it's it's not it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1795.83,"body":"wasn't like, like drug seeking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1795.83,"body":"behavior or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1795.83,"endTime":1800.87,"body":"Yeah, this was a consequence of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1795.83,"endTime":1800.87,"body":"the way to put this is a It's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1800.87,"endTime":1806.6,"body":"relationship that's got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1800.87,"endTime":1806.6,"body":"jagged edges. And it's been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1810.17,"body":"tough to navigate. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1806.6,"endTime":1810.17,"body":"I've had to take a step back,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1810.29,"endTime":1814.28,"body":"but someone very close to me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1810.29,"endTime":1814.28,"body":"that bad things would happen. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1814.28,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"would just keep going back to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1814.28,"endTime":1816.59,"body":"them. Keep going back and keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1816.59,"endTime":1819.38,"body":"going back and like the, there"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1816.59,"endTime":1819.38,"body":"was a pattern there where I'd"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1819.38,"endTime":1823.13,"body":"get sucked back in. And then,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1819.38,"endTime":1823.13,"body":"yeah, you know, and so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1824.96,"body":"yeah, you're right. Like, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1824.96,"body":"would bring things up and like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1824.99,"endTime":1827.9,"body":"I'm, I'm trying, I'm like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1824.99,"endTime":1827.9,"body":"working on it. Like, that's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1827.9,"endTime":1830.69,"body":"most I can give you at that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1827.9,"endTime":1830.69,"body":"point. Yeah, I'm trying. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1830.75,"endTime":1834.02,"body":"you know, but once again, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1830.75,"endTime":1834.02,"body":"guilt and shame, right? I can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1834.02,"endTime":1837.53,"body":"feel badly. But these zones"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1834.02,"endTime":1837.53,"body":"don't define me. I'm not taking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1837.53,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"it personally to the level that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1837.53,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"like, I feel bad about myself"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1843.71,"body":"where I feel like I need to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1843.71,"body":"defend myself. But I think it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1843.71,"endTime":1846.47,"body":"important to to acknowledge when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1843.71,"endTime":1846.47,"body":"you see change, and when you see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1846.47,"endTime":1849.77,"body":"growth, because you were always"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1846.47,"endTime":1849.77,"body":"really good about that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1849.77,"endTime":1853.04,"body":"And it made it easier for me to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1849.77,"endTime":1853.04,"body":"want to be more honest and more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1853.04,"endTime":1856.04,"body":"forthcoming and more open about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1853.04,"endTime":1856.04,"body":"everything that I was going"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1856.04,"endTime":1859.28,"body":"through. Because you would say"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1856.04,"endTime":1859.28,"body":"things like, like, when you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1859.28,"endTime":1862.25,"body":"noticed a good behavior, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1859.28,"endTime":1862.25,"body":"would let me know for sure, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1862.25,"endTime":1864.14,"body":"would always let me know, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1862.25,"endTime":1864.14,"body":"you would acknowledge it and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1864.14,"endTime":1866.87,"body":"like praise me for it. And you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1864.14,"endTime":1866.87,"body":"didn't have to do that. Like I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1866.87,"endTime":1869.87,"body":"wasn't owed any of that. But I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1866.87,"endTime":1869.87,"body":"think it's helpful in rebuilding"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1869.87,"endTime":1872.54,"body":"marriage to do that. Yeah, for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1869.87,"endTime":1872.54,"body":"sure. You know, it was I think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1872.54,"endTime":1874.37,"body":"that really helped with some of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1872.54,"endTime":1874.37,"body":"the resentment that was there."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1874.4,"endTime":1878.21,"body":"Yeah. But back to this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1874.4,"endTime":1878.21,"body":"accountability piece, like why"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1878.21,"endTime":1882.11,"body":"is accountability important? If,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1878.21,"endTime":1882.11,"body":"if you are going to say to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1886.07,"body":"somebody, let's not focus on the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1882.11,"endTime":1886.07,"body":"past, let's move forward, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1886.07,"endTime":1890.93,"body":"are making a unilateral decision"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1886.07,"endTime":1890.93,"body":"for two people, which is not the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1890.93,"endTime":1894.26,"body":"basis of a marriage. That's not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1890.93,"endTime":1894.26,"body":"how marriage works? No. I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1896.75,"body":"saying that my feelings of shame"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1894.26,"endTime":1896.75,"body":"are more important than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1896.75,"endTime":1900.59,"body":"everything I put you through."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1896.75,"endTime":1900.59,"body":"Oh, that's what I'm doing. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1900.59,"endTime":1903.56,"body":"it's so powerful. When"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1900.59,"endTime":1903.56,"body":"you say it like that. It's true,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":1903.56,"endTime":1904.1,"body":"though."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1905.45,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"So think about that. Think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1905.45,"endTime":1907.82,"body":"about that. When you say let's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1907.82,"endTime":1910.91,"body":"not talk about the past, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1907.82,"endTime":1910.91,"body":"saying that my feelings of shame"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1910.91,"endTime":1913.52,"body":"are more important than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1910.91,"endTime":1913.52,"body":"everything that you feel. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1913.73,"endTime":1916.04,"body":"you don't get to talk about your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1913.73,"endTime":1916.04,"body":"feelings, because mine are more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1916.04,"endTime":1919.01,"body":"important. That is basically"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1916.04,"endTime":1919.01,"body":"when you break it down. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1921.89,"body":"the equation that you're saying"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1919.01,"endTime":1921.89,"body":"is that I am greater than you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1921.95,"endTime":1925.22,"body":"My feelings are greater than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1921.95,"endTime":1925.22,"body":"yours. We are going to focus on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1925.22,"endTime":1928.52,"body":"what I need versus what you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1925.22,"endTime":1928.52,"body":"need. We always approached it as"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1928.52,"endTime":1932.18,"body":"a weak thing. Yeah, like a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1928.52,"endTime":1932.18,"body":"weaker for sure. But I've always"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1932.18,"endTime":1936.17,"body":"taken a much larger"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1932.18,"endTime":1936.17,"body":"responsibility for getting us to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1936.17,"endTime":1939.98,"body":"where we are today than you did."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1936.17,"endTime":1939.98,"body":"Yeah, because I was the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1939.98,"endTime":1942.86,"body":"betrayer, I was the one that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1939.98,"endTime":1942.86,"body":"caused these things. I was the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1942.86,"endTime":1947.96,"body":"one that did this stuff. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1942.86,"endTime":1947.96,"body":"know, it's no different than if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1947.96,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"you're talking about recovering"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1947.96,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"from, like, an affair, or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1956.27,"body":"anything else. Like it starts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1956.27,"body":"with openness. And honesty, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1956.27,"endTime":1959.75,"body":"think another thing that makes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1956.27,"endTime":1959.75,"body":"this easier is your actions have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1959.75,"endTime":1963.29,"body":"to backup with what's coming out"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1959.75,"endTime":1963.29,"body":"of your mouth. Like you have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1963.29,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"be able to walk the walk, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1963.29,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"can't just say you're going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1970.07,"body":"do things, you can't just talk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1970.07,"body":"about how you're going to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1970.07,"endTime":1973.28,"body":"more honest, you need to be more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1970.07,"endTime":1973.28,"body":"honest, you need to go to a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1973.28,"endTime":1975.65,"body":"meeting, you need to go to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1973.28,"endTime":1975.65,"body":"therapy on a regular if you do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1975.65,"endTime":1979.19,"body":"work on this stuff. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1975.65,"endTime":1979.19,"body":"things will get better. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1983.6,"body":"even if you just show up, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1979.76,"endTime":1983.6,"body":"will get better just showing up,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1983.72,"endTime":1985.58,"body":"you are going to pick up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1983.72,"endTime":1985.58,"body":"information that's going to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1985.58,"endTime":1989.57,"body":"better. But I was forthright and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1985.58,"endTime":1989.57,"body":"open and everything. Like I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1989.57,"endTime":1992.87,"body":"like you can ask me any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1989.57,"endTime":1992.87,"body":"question. You can say anything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1992.87,"endTime":1996.32,"body":"you need to say you can look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1992.87,"endTime":1996.32,"body":"my phone, whatever, whatever it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1996.32,"endTime":1998.75,"body":"is that you need, I want you to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1996.32,"endTime":1998.75,"body":"know that you're safe. Once"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1998.75,"endTime":2002.65,"body":"again, you're safe. That helps"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":1998.75,"endTime":2002.65,"body":"things not come up as often."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2002.95,"endTime":2006.79,"body":"Because you know that like he's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2002.95,"endTime":2006.79,"body":"been open like, Okay, I think it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2006.79,"endTime":2008.86,"body":"once again, it kind of puts the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2006.79,"endTime":2008.86,"body":"ball back into your court about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2008.86,"endTime":2011.98,"body":"your feelings. Say, Okay, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2008.86,"endTime":2011.98,"body":"having these feelings now. Even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2011.98,"endTime":2014.11,"body":"though he's doing the right"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2011.98,"endTime":2014.11,"body":"thing. I have got some stuff to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2014.11,"endTime":2016.99,"body":"deal with, just like where to fo"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2014.11,"endTime":2016.99,"body":"came from in the first place."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2017.44,"endTime":2021.58,"body":"But eventually, you get to a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2017.44,"endTime":2021.58,"body":"point where you've taken enough"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2021.58,"endTime":2024.55,"body":"accountability, like you give"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2021.58,"endTime":2024.55,"body":"them permission to begin to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2024.55,"endTime":2028.48,"body":"heal. That's how their recovery"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2024.55,"endTime":2028.48,"body":"starts is when we give them"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2028.48,"endTime":2031.3,"body":"permission through"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2028.48,"endTime":2031.3,"body":"accountability to let them know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2031.75,"endTime":2034.36,"body":"the tornado has passed. We can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2031.75,"endTime":2034.36,"body":"come out of the storm shelter."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2034.36,"endTime":2037.09,"body":"No, yeah, it's okay. Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2034.36,"endTime":2037.09,"body":"gonna take accountability for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2037.09,"endTime":2039.64,"body":"all these things. I'm gonna work"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2037.09,"endTime":2039.64,"body":"through these things. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2039.64,"endTime":2043.06,"body":"without that, what's the point"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2039.64,"endTime":2043.06,"body":"of being married? Like, why are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2043.06,"endTime":2046.66,"body":"you even together? That's, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2043.06,"endTime":2046.66,"body":"really want to know, what's the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2046.66,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"point? What kind of marriage is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2046.66,"endTime":2049.0,"body":"that? You're just gonna sit"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2049.0,"endTime":2052.87,"body":"around like, what talk about the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2049.0,"endTime":2052.87,"body":"weather? Yeah, watch TV pretend"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2052.87,"endTime":2057.28,"body":"like everything's cool when it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2052.87,"endTime":2057.28,"body":"not. Nobody wants to be in that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2057.28,"endTime":2059.23,"body":"kind of relationship. They"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2057.28,"endTime":2059.23,"body":"don't. And they're lying to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2059.23,"endTime":2061.99,"body":"themselves. If they say that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2059.23,"endTime":2061.99,"body":"they do. Yeah, for sure. Even if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2061.99,"endTime":2065.44,"body":"you are even if you were raised"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2061.99,"endTime":2065.44,"body":"as a male and type of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2065.44,"endTime":2067.36,"body":"environment where you didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2065.44,"endTime":2067.36,"body":"talk about feelings and didn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2067.36,"endTime":2071.08,"body":"talk about emotions. Even you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2067.36,"endTime":2071.08,"body":"have to admit that that sounds"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2071.08,"endTime":2077.05,"body":"miserable. Yeah. It's my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2071.08,"endTime":2077.05,"body":"experience is that if you don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2077.05,"endTime":2078.73,"body":"address these things, they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2077.05,"endTime":2078.73,"body":"going to come back in a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2078.73,"endTime":2080.77,"body":"different way. Because you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2078.73,"endTime":2080.77,"body":"gonna get resentment."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2081.67,"endTime":2084.34,"body":"Yeah, and here's the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2081.67,"endTime":2084.34,"body":"thing, too, is that a lot of us"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2084.37,"endTime":2088.06,"body":"were very supportive towards"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2084.37,"endTime":2088.06,"body":"y'all during active addiction or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2088.06,"endTime":2090.34,"body":"whatnot. You know, we were there"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2088.06,"endTime":2090.34,"body":"for you trying to hold space for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2090.34,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"you. We empathize with you. But"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2090.34,"endTime":2094.39,"body":"then when it's our turn, we"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2094.39,"endTime":2097.6,"body":"don't get the same. You know, we"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2094.39,"endTime":2097.6,"body":"don't get the same treatment and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2097.6,"endTime":2100.84,"body":"it's like, that sucks. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2097.6,"endTime":2100.84,"body":"like again. And it's still all"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2100.84,"endTime":2103.72,"body":"about you once again all the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2100.84,"endTime":2103.72,"body":"focus is on the addict. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2103.75,"endTime":2106.33,"body":"yeah. And that's This is our"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2103.75,"endTime":2106.33,"body":"life to like I said earlier,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2106.33,"endTime":2110.26,"body":"this is our life to you are"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2106.33,"endTime":2110.26,"body":"married. This is not and not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2110.26,"endTime":2112.54,"body":"either one of your it's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2110.26,"endTime":2112.54,"body":"interdependent. That's what it's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2112.54,"endTime":2113.8,"body":"supposed to be. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2113.8,"endTime":2115.99,"body":"And I think that that I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2113.8,"endTime":2115.99,"body":"think that addicts a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2115.99,"endTime":2119.68,"body":"times have problem with empathy."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2115.99,"endTime":2119.68,"body":"And I don't know the exact"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2119.68,"endTime":2123.22,"body":"science behind all this. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2119.68,"endTime":2123.22,"body":"here's the way that it felt to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2123.22,"endTime":2126.61,"body":"me was that every time I had an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2123.22,"endTime":2126.61,"body":"uncomfortable emotion, I knew"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2126.61,"endTime":2129.28,"body":"how to make that go away. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2126.61,"endTime":2129.28,"body":"would take a substance it was an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2129.28,"endTime":2133.69,"body":"anesthetic. It just numbed me,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2129.28,"endTime":2133.69,"body":"right. But in numbing myself, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2133.69,"endTime":2136.9,"body":"was never actually dealing with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2133.69,"endTime":2136.9,"body":"anything. So sobriety taught me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2136.9,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"to process emotions from the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2136.9,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"beginning, all the way to the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2139.45,"endTime":2143.56,"body":"end, uninterrupted, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2139.45,"endTime":2143.56,"body":"incredibly difficult to do in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2143.56,"endTime":2146.92,"body":"the beginning, really, really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2143.56,"endTime":2146.92,"body":"difficult to do. But if you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2146.92,"endTime":2150.43,"body":"having trouble with empathy,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2146.92,"endTime":2150.43,"body":"here's what I do. I can look at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2150.43,"endTime":2153.97,"body":"my life experiences at some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2150.43,"endTime":2153.97,"body":"point. I've been hurt by"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2153.97,"endTime":2156.4,"body":"something, and you're lying. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2153.97,"endTime":2156.4,"body":"you say you've never been hurt,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2156.43,"endTime":2158.89,"body":"never had your feelings hurt."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2156.43,"endTime":2158.89,"body":"You never knew what was like to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2158.89,"endTime":2162.01,"body":"be left out, never got picked on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2158.89,"endTime":2162.01,"body":"you never got called fat or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2162.01,"endTime":2166.09,"body":"ugly, or any of these things."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2162.01,"endTime":2166.09,"body":"You every human walking the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2166.09,"endTime":2169.6,"body":"planet knows what it's like to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2166.09,"endTime":2169.6,"body":"be hurt. So you know, it hurts"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2169.6,"endTime":2173.8,"body":"feels like so frame that hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2169.6,"endTime":2173.8,"body":"and your partner's eyes. What"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2173.8,"endTime":2177.76,"body":"does she feel when I did this,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2173.8,"endTime":2177.76,"body":"she felt the exact same effing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2177.76,"endTime":2180.37,"body":"way you felt when that sixth"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2177.76,"endTime":2180.37,"body":"grade girl declined you with the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2180.37,"endTime":2184.39,"body":"dance, or organs. 10 or your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2180.37,"endTime":2184.39,"body":"mother disregarded you when you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2184.39,"endTime":2187.15,"body":"would cry and or when your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2184.39,"endTime":2187.15,"body":"father would beat you or any of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2187.15,"endTime":2190.6,"body":"those things. She felt the same"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2187.15,"endTime":2190.6,"body":"way. It's the same way for her."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2190.66,"endTime":2194.38,"body":"Remember how bad that felt?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2190.66,"endTime":2194.38,"body":"That's how she feels. In those"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2194.38,"endTime":2196.78,"body":"moments. You can look at someone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2194.38,"endTime":2196.78,"body":"and say they're not the enemy."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2196.78,"endTime":2200.17,"body":"They're not doing these things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2196.78,"endTime":2200.17,"body":"to, to pick on me or to remind"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2200.17,"endTime":2203.98,"body":"me of how sorry I am. They are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2200.17,"endTime":2203.98,"body":"hurt. And you have to have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2203.98,"endTime":2207.46,"body":"empathy for that. Yeah, empathy"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2203.98,"endTime":2207.46,"body":"is just putting yourself how are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2207.46,"endTime":2211.27,"body":"they feeling in this moment? Let"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2207.46,"endTime":2211.27,"body":"me put myself in their shoes."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2211.27,"endTime":2214.09,"body":"How would they have felt when I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2211.27,"endTime":2214.09,"body":"did this? And for some people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2214.09,"endTime":2216.58,"body":"that's too much to overcome in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2214.09,"endTime":2216.58,"body":"the beginning. Like it's like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2216.67,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"it's so much what do I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2216.67,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"understand"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2218.44,"endTime":2220.9,"body":"and you can horrible, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2218.44,"endTime":2220.9,"body":"can go listen to our episode on"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2220.9,"endTime":2223.69,"body":"how to communicate with somebody"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2220.9,"endTime":2223.69,"body":"in early recovery, because it is"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2223.69,"endTime":2228.46,"body":"a bit tricky when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2223.69,"endTime":2228.46,"body":"that. But I do want people or,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2228.58,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"you know, addicts, understand"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2228.58,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"don't dismiss your partner's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2235.81,"body":"feelings. It's an important part"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2235.81,"body":"of both of your recovery, to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2235.84,"endTime":2238.63,"body":"acknowledge the hurt that's been"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2235.84,"endTime":2238.63,"body":"done. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2238.63,"endTime":2240.94,"body":"I think from a recovery"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2238.63,"endTime":2240.94,"body":"standpoint, accountability is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2240.94,"endTime":2244.33,"body":"very, very, very beneficial. For"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2240.94,"endTime":2244.33,"body":"sure, very beneficial, for me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2244.33,"endTime":2248.56,"body":"time plus pain equals change."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2244.33,"endTime":2248.56,"body":"And if I'm not, if I'm not in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2248.56,"endTime":2251.62,"body":"enough pain, I'm not going to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2248.56,"endTime":2251.62,"body":"change. I have a high pain"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2251.62,"endTime":2253.84,"body":"tolerance, I have to be in a lot"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2251.62,"endTime":2253.84,"body":"of pain, you have to get my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2253.84,"endTime":2257.95,"body":"attention somehow, for pain is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2253.84,"endTime":2257.95,"body":"how it works for me, I had to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2258.4,"endTime":2262.03,"body":"experience enough negative"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2258.4,"endTime":2262.03,"body":"consequence to get my attention"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2262.03,"endTime":2265.45,"body":"to say that something needs to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2262.03,"endTime":2265.45,"body":"change. Yeah. Accountability is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2265.45,"endTime":2268.0,"body":"a great way to do that. And it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2265.45,"endTime":2268.0,"body":"a healthy way to do that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2269.98,"body":"Because when I take"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2268.21,"endTime":2269.98,"body":"accountability for things, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2269.98,"endTime":2273.22,"body":"have to actually consider what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2269.98,"endTime":2273.22,"body":"I've done. I have to really, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2273.22,"endTime":2276.16,"body":"have to write it out on paper. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2273.22,"endTime":2276.16,"body":"have to talk to someone about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2276.16,"endTime":2279.49,"body":"it. I have to it's right there."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2276.16,"endTime":2279.49,"body":"I'm looking at it, I can't avoid"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2279.49,"endTime":2282.49,"body":"it. It's right there. You'll see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2279.49,"endTime":2282.49,"body":"that it's not going to be the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2282.49,"endTime":2287.35,"body":"end of the world. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2282.49,"endTime":2287.35,"body":"And you were so graceful, and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2287.35,"endTime":2292.9,"body":"your forgiveness of me. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2287.35,"endTime":2292.9,"body":"think that that's a pretty"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2292.9,"endTime":2295.84,"body":"common attribute from a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2292.9,"endTime":2295.84,"body":"the people that we work with."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2296.2,"endTime":2298.6,"body":"It's like they want to forgive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2296.2,"endTime":2298.6,"body":"like they want to move forward."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2298.6,"endTime":2301.51,"body":"But no one wants to get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2298.6,"endTime":2301.51,"body":"divorced. No, like, no one wants"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2301.51,"endTime":2304.81,"body":"to just say if at all, like no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2301.51,"endTime":2304.81,"body":"one wants to do those things."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2307.45,"body":"They're put in the position"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2307.45,"body":"where you leave them no choice."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2308.23,"endTime":2311.65,"body":"If the price for your marriage"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2308.23,"endTime":2311.65,"body":"is accountability, is that too"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2311.65,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"high of a price to pay? Really?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2311.65,"endTime":2315.46,"body":"Yeah. Is that really. And if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2319.0,"body":"that's the case, then like, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2315.46,"endTime":2319.0,"body":"ain't worth it. Like that is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2319.0,"endTime":2323.17,"body":"low price is a very low price"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2319.0,"endTime":2323.17,"body":"for very high payoff is to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2323.17,"endTime":2325.54,"body":"simply say that I did these"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2323.17,"endTime":2325.54,"body":"things. I'm accountable for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2325.54,"endTime":2327.7,"body":"these things. And you're allowed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2325.54,"endTime":2327.7,"body":"to feel however you need to feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2327.7,"endTime":2331.48,"body":"about these things. Yeah. My"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2327.7,"endTime":2331.48,"body":"promise to you is that I will"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2331.87,"endTime":2336.67,"body":"change my behaviors, my actions"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2331.87,"endTime":2336.67,"body":"will change in doing the work."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2336.85,"endTime":2340.27,"body":"It's not complicated. Yeah, not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2336.85,"endTime":2340.27,"body":"hard. Yeah. And things get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2340.27,"endTime":2340.63,"body":"better."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2340.66,"endTime":2343.78,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And if you if"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2340.66,"endTime":2343.78,"body":"you are in recovery, we also"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2343.78,"endTime":2347.17,"body":"offer a relationship building to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2343.78,"endTime":2347.17,"body":"where we can help you navigate"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2347.17,"endTime":2351.79,"body":"together on how to deal with the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2347.17,"endTime":2351.79,"body":"forgiveness and take"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2351.79,"endTime":2354.64,"body":"accountability and talk with"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2351.79,"endTime":2354.64,"body":"both of us to try to get you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2354.64,"endTime":2356.11,"body":"through it too. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2357.37,"endTime":2360.52,"body":"It works best when someone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2357.37,"endTime":2360.52,"body":"is in a program of some kind,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2360.52,"endTime":2362.98,"body":"like, we don't offer a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2360.52,"endTime":2362.98,"body":"substitute for addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2362.98,"endTime":2367.9,"body":"recovery. So if you are inactive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2362.98,"endTime":2367.9,"body":"addiction, or you're like a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2367.9,"endTime":2372.01,"body":"month out, like it's, let's give"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2367.9,"endTime":2372.01,"body":"it like 90 days. Yeah, this is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2372.01,"endTime":2375.37,"body":"just an Yeah, once it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2372.01,"endTime":2375.37,"body":"established, it's really, really"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2375.37,"endTime":2378.34,"body":"beneficial. I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2375.37,"endTime":2378.34,"body":"supercharging your growth and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2378.34,"endTime":2381.13,"body":"recovery. I think that I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2378.34,"endTime":2381.13,"body":"know if there's anyone else"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2381.13,"endTime":2383.38,"body":"doing what we're doing when it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2381.13,"endTime":2383.38,"body":"comes to that. Yeah, like a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2383.38,"endTime":2385.42,"body":"couple that's been through it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2383.38,"endTime":2385.42,"body":"working others through it like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2385.42,"endTime":2385.6,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2385.6,"endTime":2389.68,"body":"Yep. Yeah. But I wanted"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2385.6,"endTime":2389.68,"body":"to backtrack just a little bit."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2389.68,"endTime":2392.77,"body":"What does forgiveness look like"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2389.68,"endTime":2392.77,"body":"with somebody in active"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2392.77,"endTime":2396.07,"body":"addiction? Because we get a lot"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2392.77,"endTime":2396.07,"body":"of people in the community who"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2396.07,"endTime":2400.12,"body":"will say I'm so resentful. How"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2396.07,"endTime":2400.12,"body":"do I get you know, how do I Get"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2400.12,"endTime":2402.67,"body":"rid of this resentment. What's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2400.12,"endTime":2402.67,"body":"the truth on that?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2402.82,"endTime":2406.69,"body":"Why would you? Yeah, use"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2402.82,"endTime":2406.69,"body":"it to do something to make a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2406.69,"endTime":2409.63,"body":"change, right? Like our anger"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2406.69,"endTime":2409.63,"body":"episode last week, if someone's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2409.63,"endTime":2411.94,"body":"still an act of addiction,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2409.63,"endTime":2411.94,"body":"you're resentful, like that's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2411.94,"endTime":2414.19,"body":"natural reaction to ongoing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2411.94,"endTime":2414.19,"body":"abuse,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2414.22,"endTime":2417.7,"body":"you cannot forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2414.22,"endTime":2417.7,"body":"somebody who is continuously"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2417.7,"endTime":2421.21,"body":"hurting you like over and over"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2417.7,"endTime":2421.21,"body":"again, if the pattern is still"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2421.21,"endTime":2426.1,"body":"happening, if the behaviors are"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2421.21,"endTime":2426.1,"body":"still occurring, you can't"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2426.31,"endTime":2430.03,"body":"forgive that. So that's when you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2426.31,"endTime":2430.03,"body":"have to make the change within"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2430.03,"endTime":2434.29,"body":"yourself to move forward or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2430.03,"endTime":2434.29,"body":"figure out how to what you need"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2434.29,"endTime":2435.37,"body":"to do next."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2435.43,"endTime":2437.71,"body":"Yeah, like there are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2435.43,"endTime":2437.71,"body":"different types of people that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2438.31,"endTime":2441.79,"body":"are attracted to like till the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2438.31,"endTime":2441.79,"body":"wheels fall off, and there is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2441.79,"endTime":2446.29,"body":"some group of them that want to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2441.79,"endTime":2446.29,"body":"want to know the magical answer"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2446.29,"endTime":2451.21,"body":"of how can I be happy when this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2446.29,"endTime":2451.21,"body":"is still going on? And my answer"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2451.21,"endTime":2453.79,"body":"is that like, that's not what we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2451.21,"endTime":2453.79,"body":"do here. No, like, we are not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2453.79,"endTime":2456.28,"body":"going to teach you to gaslight,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2453.79,"endTime":2456.28,"body":"yourself to tolerate abuse."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2456.31,"endTime":2459.37,"body":"That's not what I ever do. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2456.31,"endTime":2459.37,"body":"Like there are programs that do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2459.37,"endTime":2462.49,"body":"that. I think, not naming any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2459.37,"endTime":2462.49,"body":"names, but they're out there. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2462.49,"endTime":2464.83,"body":"think we all know what they are."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2462.49,"endTime":2464.83,"body":"Yeah, there's a lot of that that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2464.83,"endTime":2467.68,"body":"takes place in there. Right. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2464.83,"endTime":2467.68,"body":"if you're resentful, you should"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2467.68,"endTime":2470.86,"body":"be yes. That is your as your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2467.68,"endTime":2470.86,"body":"everything that's your your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2470.86,"endTime":2475.03,"body":"soul, knowing that you do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2470.86,"endTime":2475.03,"body":"something different. Get me out"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2475.03,"endTime":2477.25,"body":"of here. I can't take this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2475.03,"endTime":2477.25,"body":"anymore, right. So"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2477.25,"endTime":2478.69,"body":"if you're asking that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2477.25,"endTime":2478.69,"body":"question, and you're like, I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2478.69,"endTime":2482.59,"body":"don't want to feel this way"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2478.69,"endTime":2482.59,"body":"anymore. There is no magical way"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2482.59,"endTime":2485.11,"body":"to change that. There's no"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2482.59,"endTime":2485.11,"body":"magical thing within your"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2485.11,"endTime":2487.72,"body":"relationship that's going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2485.11,"endTime":2487.72,"body":"change that except for change."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2487.9,"endTime":2490.54,"body":"Yeah, like you have to make a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2487.9,"endTime":2490.54,"body":"change, you have to make a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2490.54,"endTime":2494.02,"body":"change at some point you do. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2490.54,"endTime":2494.02,"body":"then what about whenever"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2494.02,"endTime":2498.31,"body":"somebody leaves the situation,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2494.02,"endTime":2498.31,"body":"and they have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2498.31,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"resentment towards their ex, who"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2498.31,"endTime":2503.05,"body":"is still causing some problems,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2503.05,"endTime":2505.72,"body":"but they're not really in their"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2503.05,"endTime":2505.72,"body":"lives, but maybe they still have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2505.72,"endTime":2507.52,"body":"to be in their lives because"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2505.72,"endTime":2507.52,"body":"they have children."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2508.9,"endTime":2510.01,"body":"Yeah, this is more."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2512.17,"endTime":2513.7,"body":"This is more complicated."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2512.17,"endTime":2513.7,"body":"This is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2513.7,"endTime":2515.32,"body":"a bit more complicated."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2513.7,"endTime":2515.32,"body":"Yes. So you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2515.32,"endTime":2518.59,"body":"someone who's removed themselves"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2515.32,"endTime":2518.59,"body":"from that relationship? Yes. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2518.59,"endTime":2522.25,"body":"how do they find forgiveness for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2518.59,"endTime":2522.25,"body":"somebody? Yes. I think that you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2522.25,"endTime":2525.25,"body":"can, you can frame it however"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2522.25,"endTime":2525.25,"body":"you want. But you have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2525.25,"endTime":2528.94,"body":"reframe your anger or reframe"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2525.25,"endTime":2528.94,"body":"your resentment. So if you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2528.97,"endTime":2532.3,"body":"out of that environment, now,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2528.97,"endTime":2532.3,"body":"things are likely getting better"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2532.3,"endTime":2535.3,"body":"for you in some ways. Now, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2532.3,"endTime":2535.3,"body":"might not be easier all the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2535.3,"endTime":2538.39,"body":"time, right might be harder to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2535.3,"endTime":2538.39,"body":"pay bills alone, it might be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2538.39,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"harder to sleep alone, it might"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2538.39,"endTime":2541.15,"body":"be harder not to have the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2541.15,"endTime":2543.7,"body":"support and raising your child"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2541.15,"endTime":2543.7,"body":"or something like that. But you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2543.7,"endTime":2547.24,"body":"can look at your life and say,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2543.7,"endTime":2547.24,"body":"things are much better. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2547.27,"endTime":2550.36,"body":"they're calmer around here. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2547.27,"endTime":2550.36,"body":"I'm not in fight or flight mode"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2550.36,"endTime":2553.45,"body":"all the time. I'm not in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2550.36,"endTime":2553.45,"body":"survival mode. And you can see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2553.45,"endTime":2557.08,"body":"that person who's out there"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2553.45,"endTime":2557.08,"body":"struggling. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2557.08,"endTime":2559.33,"body":"that's when you can really look"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2557.08,"endTime":2559.33,"body":"at them and say like they are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2559.33,"endTime":2562.42,"body":"sick person, like they're sick,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2559.33,"endTime":2562.42,"body":"like genuinely sick. I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2562.42,"endTime":2564.67,"body":"about the disease model, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2562.42,"endTime":2564.67,"body":"This is where the compassion"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2564.67,"endTime":2566.83,"body":"comes in. You can have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2564.67,"endTime":2566.83,"body":"compassion for someone and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2566.83,"endTime":2571.03,"body":"understand that in their right"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2566.83,"endTime":2571.03,"body":"mind. They wouldn't choose to do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2571.03,"endTime":2574.81,"body":"this. They're showing me sick."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2571.03,"endTime":2574.81,"body":"But you don't have to be around"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2575.44,"endTime":2576.85,"body":"in the line of fire for right."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2576.85,"endTime":2579.34,"body":"And also forgiveness is"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2576.85,"endTime":2579.34,"body":"not for the other person"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2579.34,"endTime":2582.16,"body":"forgiveness. Forgiveness is for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2579.34,"endTime":2582.16,"body":"yourself. Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2582.16,"endTime":2583.27,"body":"not condoning anything."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2583.3,"endTime":2586.66,"body":"No, no, you're not."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2583.3,"endTime":2586.66,"body":"You're not letting go of your"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2586.66,"endTime":2589.99,"body":"values or your boundaries or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2586.66,"endTime":2589.99,"body":"condoning you're not doing any"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2589.99,"endTime":2592.72,"body":"of that when you forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2589.99,"endTime":2592.72,"body":"somebody, when you're forgiving"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2592.72,"endTime":2595.78,"body":"it is you're just letting go of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2592.72,"endTime":2595.78,"body":"that anger and you're not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2595.81,"endTime":2598.03,"body":"allowing it to affect you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2595.81,"endTime":2598.03,"body":"anymore,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2598.06,"endTime":2600.31,"body":"man. Like there. There's a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2598.06,"endTime":2600.31,"body":"way to frame this. And it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2600.31,"endTime":2603.34,"body":"like, it's it's tricky, because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2600.31,"endTime":2603.34,"body":"there's, there's absolute"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2603.34,"endTime":2606.37,"body":"validity to like not everything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2603.34,"endTime":2606.37,"body":"deserves forgiveness. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2606.37,"endTime":2609.46,"body":"there's, that's valid. I agree."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2606.37,"endTime":2609.46,"body":"Completely agree with that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2609.46,"endTime":2611.44,"body":"Like, I don't encourage everyone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2609.46,"endTime":2611.44,"body":"like you just need to forgive."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2611.47,"endTime":2616.06,"body":"Like, that's not that's not to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2611.47,"endTime":2616.06,"body":"have that mentality. It's things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2616.06,"endTime":2616.63,"body":"have changed for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2616.63,"endTime":2618.76,"body":"me, right? Well, you just"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2616.63,"endTime":2618.76,"body":"said this is something I never"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2618.76,"endTime":2619.33,"body":"believed."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2620.41,"endTime":2622.57,"body":"Okay, well, maybe I did"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2620.41,"endTime":2622.57,"body":"remember the whole stray cat"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2622.57,"endTime":2625.72,"body":"thing. resentments like stray"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2622.57,"endTime":2625.72,"body":"cats they go when you stop"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2625.72,"endTime":2626.65,"body":"feeding them. Yes."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2626.8,"endTime":2628.6,"body":"I still believe that."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2626.8,"endTime":2628.6,"body":"Well, I believe that too, but"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2628.6,"endTime":2629.5,"body":"not for everything."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2629.53,"endTime":2631.57,"body":"No, there's some things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2629.53,"endTime":2631.57,"body":"where like, if you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2631.57,"endTime":2635.89,"body":"encouraging, just forgive, okay,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2631.57,"endTime":2635.89,"body":"so why are we forgiving? Right,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2635.89,"endTime":2638.56,"body":"so for forgiving this person so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2635.89,"endTime":2638.56,"body":"we can move forward together?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2638.68,"endTime":2642.19,"body":"That's not the right reason to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2638.68,"endTime":2642.19,"body":"forgive. Right? That's not I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2642.19,"endTime":2644.92,"body":"able to find forgiveness in some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2642.19,"endTime":2644.92,"body":"really, really tough situations."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2644.95,"endTime":2649.15,"body":"Only when I was able to see how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2644.95,"endTime":2649.15,"body":"those experiences benefited me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2649.15,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"in some way. Like they made me"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2649.15,"endTime":2652.9,"body":"stronger. And for that, I was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2656.74,"body":"grateful. So in some ways I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2652.9,"endTime":2656.74,"body":"could forgive but a lot of ways"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2656.74,"endTime":2660.13,"body":"never forgive the actions. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2656.74,"endTime":2660.13,"body":"that's not okay. It wasn't okay"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2660.13,"endTime":2664.51,"body":"to do. Yeah, not okay. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2660.13,"endTime":2664.51,"body":"Like, what are your thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2664.51,"endTime":2664.66,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2665.05,"endTime":2666.85,"body":"Yeah, I mean, like I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2665.05,"endTime":2666.85,"body":"said, I think that you forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2666.85,"endTime":2671.32,"body":"for yourself, but I like not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2666.85,"endTime":2671.32,"body":"everything is forgivable. It"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2671.32,"endTime":2674.38,"body":"should be a different term. I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2671.32,"endTime":2674.38,"body":"feel like that term has been or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2674.38,"endTime":2678.37,"body":"that word has been like, watered"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2674.38,"endTime":2678.37,"body":"down or something. I don't know."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2678.37,"endTime":2679.57,"body":"People misunderstand. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2679.57,"endTime":2682.6,"body":"think that people, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2679.57,"endTime":2682.6,"body":"confuse forgiveness with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2682.63,"endTime":2684.1,"body":"reconciliation. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2684.13,"endTime":2686.65,"body":"exactly. And that's our"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2684.13,"endTime":2686.65,"body":"first episode discussing. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2686.65,"endTime":2688.48,"body":"saying, like, I forgive"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2686.65,"endTime":2688.48,"body":"you is the same as saying like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2688.48,"endTime":2690.61,"body":"It's okay. Come on back. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2688.48,"endTime":2690.61,"body":"not true."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2690.64,"endTime":2694.36,"body":"That's not true. No, no."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2690.64,"endTime":2694.36,"body":"But um, and some people might"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2694.36,"endTime":2696.97,"body":"say, well, when are you going to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2694.36,"endTime":2696.97,"body":"forgive me? You know, why can't"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2696.97,"endTime":2700.3,"body":"you just forgive me? It's like,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2696.97,"endTime":2700.3,"body":"well, what is forgive giveness"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2700.3,"endTime":2703.75,"body":"mean to you, to me, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2700.3,"endTime":2703.75,"body":"like you want me to condone your"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2703.75,"endTime":2706.84,"body":"bad behavior. You want a free"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2703.75,"endTime":2706.84,"body":"pass everyone a free pass, or"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2706.84,"endTime":2709.81,"body":"you just want to forget the past"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2706.84,"endTime":2709.81,"body":"and move on and not take any"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2709.81,"endTime":2710.47,"body":"responsibility."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2711.009,"endTime":2712.209,"body":"How did you forgive me?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2716.83,"body":"How did I forgive you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2712.27,"endTime":2716.83,"body":"you? It took time with you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2716.83,"endTime":2720.43,"body":"showing me your different"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2716.83,"endTime":2720.43,"body":"behaviors. And with you having"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2720.46,"endTime":2724.57,"body":"open conversations with me, and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2720.46,"endTime":2724.57,"body":"you taking accountability and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2724.57,"endTime":2728.38,"body":"responsibility, and that's how I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2724.57,"endTime":2728.38,"body":"forgave you. There will be"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2728.38,"endTime":2730.21,"body":"people on the internet, though"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2728.38,"endTime":2730.21,"body":"that says that I don't forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2730.24,"endTime":2732.07,"body":"that I haven't forgiven you that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2730.24,"endTime":2732.07,"body":"I have a lot of resentment"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2732.07,"endTime":2737.89,"body":"towards you. And I just laugh"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2732.07,"endTime":2737.89,"body":"when I see that. Let me just say"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2737.89,"endTime":2739.9,"body":"that because I have no"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2737.89,"endTime":2739.9,"body":"resentment towards you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2739.93,"endTime":2742.39,"body":"Yeah, I think forgiveness"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2739.93,"endTime":2742.39,"body":"for me anyway, it's possible"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2742.39,"endTime":2744.61,"body":"when you can look at your life"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2742.39,"endTime":2744.61,"body":"and say, like, the benefits of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2744.61,"endTime":2748.09,"body":"now outweigh the costs?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2744.61,"endTime":2748.09,"body":"Absolutely. But it has to, it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2748.09,"endTime":2750.55,"body":"has to match up. But that won't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2748.09,"endTime":2750.55,"body":"be the case for every situation"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2750.55,"endTime":2753.13,"body":"in every scenario, you know?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2750.55,"endTime":2753.13,"body":"Yeah. Like there'll be some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2753.13,"endTime":2755.35,"body":"things that are just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2753.13,"endTime":2755.35,"body":"unforgivable. Like you've abused"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2755.35,"endTime":2758.86,"body":"the child. Unforgivable. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2755.35,"endTime":2758.86,"body":"unforgivable. How could you ever"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2758.86,"endTime":2761.89,"body":"forgive that? Yeah, you don't."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2758.86,"endTime":2761.89,"body":"But like, I've I've known people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2761.89,"endTime":2765.64,"body":"that have been through that. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2761.89,"endTime":2765.64,"body":"in some ways, they were able to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2765.64,"endTime":2769.18,"body":"forgive the action, but not the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2765.64,"endTime":2769.18,"body":"abuser themselves. Or sorry, was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2769.18,"endTime":2770.47,"body":"it the other way around? No, no,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2769.18,"endTime":2770.47,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2770.469,"endTime":2775.209,"body":"forgive the? No. Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2770.469,"endTime":2775.209,"body":"was the other way around. Action"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2775.27,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"abuser, but not the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2775.27,"endTime":2777.28,"body":"action. Yeah, that's what you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2777.28,"endTime":2779.8,"body":"have to separate. That's what it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2777.28,"endTime":2779.8,"body":"was, like, not they can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2779.8,"endTime":2783.58,"body":"understand that person."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2779.8,"endTime":2783.58,"body":"extremely sick. Yes. Beyond"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2783.58,"endTime":2786.97,"body":"effed up, having God knows what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2783.58,"endTime":2786.97,"body":"they went through that put them"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2786.97,"endTime":2789.07,"body":"in a position where they thought"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2786.97,"endTime":2789.07,"body":"that was a good idea. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2789.07,"endTime":2792.91,"body":"they can say I can forgive like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2789.07,"endTime":2792.91,"body":"that. But the action? Absolutely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2792.91,"endTime":2797.05,"body":"not. And never Yeah. And like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2792.91,"endTime":2797.05,"body":"Apology accepted access to not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2797.05,"endTime":2797.38,"body":"right,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2797.38,"endTime":2800.71,"body":"but I'm not going to hold"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2797.38,"endTime":2800.71,"body":"on to that resentment forever."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2801.16,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"But there will always be a piece"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2801.16,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"in you, I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2804.43,"body":"that's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2806.32,"endTime":2809.98,"body":"unhealed, like for you, is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2806.32,"endTime":2809.98,"body":"there a piece of you that still"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2809.98,"endTime":2812.47,"body":"unhealed anything under the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2809.98,"endTime":2812.47,"body":"answer this question, but still"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2812.47,"endTime":2814.6,"body":"unhealed from some of the things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2812.47,"endTime":2814.6,"body":"that took place? I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2814.6,"endTime":2818.02,"body":"think so. Because that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2814.6,"endTime":2818.02,"body":"was part of the wiring of my"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2818.02,"endTime":2821.02,"body":"brain, you know, the things that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2818.02,"endTime":2821.02,"body":"we went through, that's part of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2821.02,"endTime":2827.89,"body":"the there are parts that are"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2821.02,"endTime":2827.89,"body":"always going to be there. But"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2827.92,"endTime":2829.57,"body":"the good outweighs that part"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2827.92,"endTime":2829.57,"body":"now,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2829.6,"endTime":2832.36,"body":"right? So it's like, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2829.6,"endTime":2832.36,"body":"can look at it and say, Okay, on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2832.36,"endTime":2835.33,"body":"the whole, now, I have more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2832.36,"endTime":2835.33,"body":"positive experiences than the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2835.33,"endTime":2838.78,"body":"negative. So then it becomes the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2835.33,"endTime":2838.78,"body":"norm that it's more of a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2838.78,"endTime":2841.33,"body":"positive. Like when you think"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2838.78,"endTime":2841.33,"body":"about like, the the color of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2841.33,"endTime":2844.06,"body":"that emotion in your mind is no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2841.33,"endTime":2844.06,"body":"longer red. Yeah, there's no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2844.06,"endTime":2847.15,"body":"blue or green or something more"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2844.06,"endTime":2847.15,"body":"pleasant for sure. It's not so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2847.15,"endTime":2850.36,"body":"bad anymore. But in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2847.15,"endTime":2850.36,"body":"beginning, how could it not be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2850.45,"endTime":2854.62,"body":"bad? If you're still in it? How"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2850.45,"endTime":2854.62,"body":"could it not be bad? Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2854.62,"endTime":2857.74,"body":"would challenge people to do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2854.62,"endTime":2857.74,"body":"something with that emotion,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2857.83,"endTime":2861.34,"body":"other than stew in it, sit in it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2857.83,"endTime":2861.34,"body":"and hope that it fixes itself?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2864.94,"body":"Yeah. Because it probably won't."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2861.37,"endTime":2864.94,"body":"No, they won't change has to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2864.94,"endTime":2867.28,"body":"made. Yeah. And there is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2864.94,"endTime":2867.28,"body":"something to be said about,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2867.31,"endTime":2870.46,"body":"like, not saying anything at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2867.31,"endTime":2870.46,"body":"all, not speaking up, and just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2870.88,"endTime":2873.43,"body":"pretending like it doesn't exist"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2870.88,"endTime":2873.43,"body":"is in some way condoning the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2873.43,"endTime":2876.82,"body":"behavior. A lot of people do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2873.43,"endTime":2876.82,"body":"that to a lot of spouses don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2876.82,"endTime":2879.25,"body":"know what to do about this."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2876.82,"endTime":2879.25,"body":"Like, what do I do? Like he"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2879.25,"endTime":2883.87,"body":"doesn't listen to me? He's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2879.25,"endTime":2883.87,"body":"shut up about it. No, no, but I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2883.87,"endTime":2887.05,"body":"think that actions speak louder"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2883.87,"endTime":2887.05,"body":"than words. Yeah. If you're that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2887.05,"endTime":2890.02,"body":"unhappy, then don't tolerate it."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2890.17,"endTime":2892.45,"body":"Right. And it takes time."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2890.17,"endTime":2892.45,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2892.66,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"it does. It's a process"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2892.66,"endTime":2894.52,"body":"like Believe me, it is a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2894.52,"endTime":2895.63,"body":"process. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2901.24,"body":"But I did want to switch"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2895.66,"endTime":2901.24,"body":"just a second to, um, forgiving"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2901.24,"endTime":2906.76,"body":"of the spouses of myself, like"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2901.24,"endTime":2906.76,"body":"the things that I did. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2906.76,"endTime":2910.15,"body":"I think a lot of our listeners"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2906.76,"endTime":2910.15,"body":"are going to want to understand"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2910.15,"endTime":2912.97,"body":"this part, because a lot of they"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2910.15,"endTime":2912.97,"body":"don't talk about that we have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2912.97,"endTime":2916.06,"body":"guilt as well. And their shame"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2912.97,"endTime":2916.06,"body":"that goes along with some of the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2916.06,"endTime":2916.54,"body":"things that we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2916.54,"endTime":2919.81,"body":"did. Do you mean, like for"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2916.54,"endTime":2919.81,"body":"how did i How was I so dumb to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2919.81,"endTime":2923.11,"body":"allow this to happen in a way,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2919.81,"endTime":2923.11,"body":"but then what about are some of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2923.11,"endTime":2926.05,"body":"the things that you may have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2923.11,"endTime":2926.05,"body":"said to me or done to me, maybe"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2926.05,"endTime":2926.35,"body":"some of the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2926.35,"endTime":2928.6,"body":"things that I would have,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2926.35,"endTime":2928.6,"body":"that I had said to you, or the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2928.6,"endTime":2938.47,"body":"way that I acted in survival"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2928.6,"endTime":2938.47,"body":"mode, or for minimising things,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2939.22,"endTime":2942.64,"body":"you know, like, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2939.22,"endTime":2942.64,"body":"guilt that would put, putting"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2942.64,"endTime":2946.39,"body":"the kids in that, yeah, and then"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2942.64,"endTime":2946.39,"body":"allowing it to happen for a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2946.39,"endTime":2951.7,"body":"while. I did have to forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2946.39,"endTime":2951.7,"body":"myself for that. Even in other"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2951.7,"endTime":2956.2,"body":"situations, you know, allowing"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2951.7,"endTime":2956.2,"body":"access to me when I knew that I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2956.2,"endTime":2962.2,"body":"was being harmed. And then I had"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2956.2,"endTime":2962.2,"body":"to forgive myself for allowing"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2962.2,"endTime":2967.66,"body":"that. So, but the problem the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2962.2,"endTime":2967.66,"body":"thing is, with these situations,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2967.66,"endTime":2972.28,"body":"too, is that when you're in it,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2967.66,"endTime":2972.28,"body":"you don't really know, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2972.52,"endTime":2976.84,"body":"you don't really know how bad it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2972.52,"endTime":2976.84,"body":"is. You don't know that you are"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2977.26,"endTime":2981.25,"body":"not living by your values, but I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2977.26,"endTime":2981.25,"body":"had to forgive myself for not"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2981.25,"endTime":2982.51,"body":"living by my values."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2984.219,"endTime":2988.059,"body":"And timeframe wise. What"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":2984.219,"endTime":2988.059,"body":"did that look like? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2988.06,"endTime":2991.18,"body":"this just comes off in"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2988.06,"endTime":2991.18,"body":"layers. It's not a quick thing."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2991.39,"endTime":2994.96,"body":"Here's, here's because there's"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2991.39,"endTime":2994.96,"body":"some things that you don't even"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2994.96,"endTime":3000.27,"body":"see that you did until years"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":2994.96,"endTime":3000.27,"body":"later, just like you Yeah, You"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3000.27,"endTime":3004.53,"body":"know, I wasn't the best mom, for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3000.27,"endTime":3004.53,"body":"the first couple years of my"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3004.53,"endTime":3008.61,"body":"kids lives because I was in like"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3004.53,"endTime":3008.61,"body":"survival mode. And I wasn't I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3008.61,"endTime":3012.18,"body":"allowed that was me sober, that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3008.61,"endTime":3012.18,"body":"was you sober and that I allowed"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3012.18,"endTime":3015.51,"body":"my, you know, anxiety and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3012.18,"endTime":3015.51,"body":"depression and mental health and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3015.51,"endTime":3019.38,"body":"all that stuff to take over and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3015.51,"endTime":3019.38,"body":"my overthinking and all of that,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3019.62,"endTime":3022.14,"body":"to where I wasn't even present"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3019.62,"endTime":3022.14,"body":"with my children, because I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3022.14,"endTime":3027.48,"body":"wasn't feeling safe. And that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3022.14,"endTime":3027.48,"body":"was something I had to forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3027.48,"endTime":3028.26,"body":"myself for."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3028.95,"endTime":3031.8,"body":"Yeah, that's a long road."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3028.95,"endTime":3031.8,"body":"That's a long road. This is all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3031.8,"endTime":3034.11,"body":"a long road. This is all Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3031.8,"endTime":3034.11,"body":"it doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3034.11,"endTime":3038.22,"body":"quickly. But it's okay. I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3034.11,"endTime":3038.22,"body":"mean, I know that some people"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3038.58,"endTime":3041.52,"body":"need want to learn how to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3038.58,"endTime":3041.52,"body":"forgive themselves, if they"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3041.52,"endTime":3044.22,"body":"leave. Some people need to learn"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3041.52,"endTime":3044.22,"body":"how to forgive themselves for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3044.22,"endTime":3049.08,"body":"staying too long, you know,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3044.22,"endTime":3049.08,"body":"forgiving themselves raising"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3049.08,"endTime":3053.19,"body":"their children, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3049.08,"endTime":3053.19,"body":"years and years in the toxicity"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3053.19,"endTime":3057.87,"body":"that you know, could be harmful"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3053.19,"endTime":3057.87,"body":"to them. And then forgiving"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3057.87,"endTime":3061.53,"body":"yourselves for losing yourself."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3057.87,"endTime":3061.53,"body":"Like I have to die to forgive"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3061.53,"endTime":3066.9,"body":"myself for that, for losing my"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3061.53,"endTime":3066.9,"body":"my identity for becoming for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3066.9,"endTime":3068.4,"body":"being isolated all the time."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3068.4,"endTime":3070.68,"body":"But it's not so different"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3068.4,"endTime":3070.68,"body":"than what I had to go through to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3070.68,"endTime":3071.49,"body":"in the end. No,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3071.489,"endTime":3075.329,"body":"it's not like my life was"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3071.489,"endTime":3075.329,"body":"not early, I didn't have the"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3075.329,"endTime":3080.459,"body":"normal 20 year old life like you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3075.329,"endTime":3080.459,"body":"weren't the kind of person who"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3080.459,"endTime":3084.269,"body":"went out to parties and bars and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3080.459,"endTime":3084.269,"body":"stuff like that. We stayed home,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3084.299,"endTime":3088.979,"body":"they were hermit crabs, we were"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3084.299,"endTime":3088.979,"body":"we were hermits. And I had to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3088.979,"endTime":3096.089,"body":"forgive myself for not living my"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3088.979,"endTime":3096.089,"body":"life based on my values."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3097.83,"endTime":3102.51,"body":"Yeah, man. It's tough"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3097.83,"endTime":3102.51,"body":"journey for both people. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3102.51,"endTime":3105.18,"body":"once again, this, which is why I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3102.51,"endTime":3105.18,"body":"think the absurdity of the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3105.18,"endTime":3109.38,"body":"comment, we don't need to talk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3105.18,"endTime":3109.38,"body":"about the past. It's just blows"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3109.38,"endTime":3113.04,"body":"my mind. Yeah. Everyone who's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3109.38,"endTime":3113.04,"body":"been around has been affected in"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3113.04,"endTime":3116.04,"body":"some way. And they're not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3113.04,"endTime":3116.04,"body":"shaming you by saying that they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3116.1,"endTime":3120.54,"body":"they were hurt by it. You're a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3116.1,"endTime":3120.54,"body":"big boy. Deal with it. Suck it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3120.54,"endTime":3123.09,"body":"up. You can handle it. It's not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3120.54,"endTime":3123.09,"body":"the worst thing in the world to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3123.09,"endTime":3128.19,"body":"take some accountability. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3123.09,"endTime":3128.19,"body":"I'm going to finish it off. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3128.19,"endTime":3131.04,"body":"you're cool. I've wrote"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3128.19,"endTime":3131.04,"body":"something out here. Kind of like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3131.04,"endTime":3133.95,"body":"a synopsis. Because we don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3131.04,"endTime":3133.95,"body":"read whenever we do episodes, we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3133.95,"endTime":3136.44,"body":"just kind of talk let this thing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3133.95,"endTime":3136.44,"body":"flow organically. Yes. But I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3136.44,"endTime":3138.45,"body":"want to make sure we got all of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3136.44,"endTime":3138.45,"body":"our points here. I'll just read"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3138.45,"endTime":3142.89,"body":"this real quick. And this is the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3138.45,"endTime":3142.89,"body":"basis of this is I think, what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3142.89,"endTime":3146.22,"body":"I've what I've seen what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3142.89,"endTime":3146.22,"body":"happened in our marriages. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3146.22,"endTime":3149.67,"body":"think more than anything, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3146.22,"endTime":3149.67,"body":"you just want someone to get it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3149.7,"endTime":3156.42,"body":"like you need to know how much"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3149.7,"endTime":3156.42,"body":"you've hurt me. You need to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3156.42,"endTime":3160.71,"body":"know. And it's not so I can like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3156.42,"endTime":3160.71,"body":"beat you up. It's because it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3160.71,"endTime":3164.16,"body":"so serious. Like I need to know"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3160.71,"endTime":3164.16,"body":"that you're going to do"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3164.16,"endTime":3166.47,"body":"something about it, or I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3164.16,"endTime":3166.47,"body":"want to be in this relationship"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3166.47,"endTime":3169.77,"body":"anymore. That's the seriousness"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3166.47,"endTime":3169.77,"body":"of it. That's how bad it hurts."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3169.8,"endTime":3173.58,"body":"It's like one of those kinds of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3169.8,"endTime":3173.58,"body":"hurts. So, one big reason"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3173.58,"endTime":3176.34,"body":"couples struggle after one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3173.58,"endTime":3176.34,"body":"partner betrays the others trust"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3176.34,"endTime":3178.98,"body":"due to addiction is that the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3176.34,"endTime":3178.98,"body":"addicted partner often doesn't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3178.98,"endTime":3181.62,"body":"fully grasp how much they've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3178.98,"endTime":3181.62,"body":"heard their partner."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3182.16,"endTime":3185.31,"body":"understanding and empathy are"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3182.16,"endTime":3185.31,"body":"key to healing the hurt caused"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3185.31,"endTime":3188.19,"body":"by broken trust. When addiction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3185.31,"endTime":3188.19,"body":"damages the trust and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3188.19,"endTime":3190.38,"body":"relationship, it feels like a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3188.19,"endTime":3190.38,"body":"punch in the gut for the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3190.38,"endTime":3193.65,"body":"betrayed partner. Initially, all"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3190.38,"endTime":3193.65,"body":"they can think about is feeling"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3193.65,"endTime":3197.97,"body":"safe again. At first, it seems"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3193.65,"endTime":3197.97,"body":"crazy to even consider giving"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3197.97,"endTime":3200.31,"body":"the addicted partner another"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3197.97,"endTime":3200.31,"body":"chance. But over time, if the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3200.31,"endTime":3203.07,"body":"addicted partner shows they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3200.31,"endTime":3203.07,"body":"truly sorry, committed to making"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3203.07,"endTime":3205.74,"body":"things right, the betrayed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3203.07,"endTime":3205.74,"body":"partner might start thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3205.74,"endTime":3208.2,"body":"about giving things another"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3205.74,"endTime":3208.2,"body":"shot. But before that can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3208.2,"endTime":3211.47,"body":"happen. The betrayed partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3208.2,"endTime":3211.47,"body":"needs to feel like the addicted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3211.47,"endTime":3215.73,"body":"partner truly gets how much"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3211.47,"endTime":3215.73,"body":"they've hurt them, and genuinely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3215.76,"endTime":3219.18,"body":"regrets it. Anything less makes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3215.76,"endTime":3219.18,"body":"the betrayed partner wonder if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3219.18,"endTime":3222.99,"body":"their partner really cares or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3219.18,"endTime":3222.99,"body":"even wants to care. Early on,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3222.99,"endTime":3225.6,"body":"it's crucial that both partners"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3222.99,"endTime":3225.6,"body":"really want to understand each"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3225.6,"endTime":3228.63,"body":"other and work on getting better"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3225.6,"endTime":3228.63,"body":"emotionally. While there are no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3228.63,"endTime":3230.85,"body":"guarantees certain signs"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3228.63,"endTime":3230.85,"body":"indicate progress toward"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3230.85,"endTime":3236.13,"body":"healing. So why someone keeps"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3230.85,"endTime":3236.13,"body":"bringing up the past why the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3236.13,"endTime":3238.41,"body":"hurt person keeps bringing up"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3236.13,"endTime":3238.41,"body":"the past until the hurt partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3238.41,"endTime":3240.48,"body":"feels like the addicted partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3238.41,"endTime":3240.48,"body":"truly understands how much"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3240.48,"endTime":3243.36,"body":"they've been hurt, they'll keep"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3240.48,"endTime":3243.36,"body":"bringing it up. Many addicted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3243.36,"endTime":3246.51,"body":"partners see this as a way to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3243.36,"endTime":3246.51,"body":"help them. Many addicted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3246.51,"endTime":3249.57,"body":"partners see this as a way to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3246.51,"endTime":3249.57,"body":"make them feel bad. But really,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3249.9,"endTime":3253.47,"body":"the hurt partner just wants to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3249.9,"endTime":3253.47,"body":"heal and feel close again. If"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3253.47,"endTime":3255.96,"body":"the addicted partner admits"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3253.47,"endTime":3255.96,"body":"they've been selfish and messed"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3255.96,"endTime":3259.32,"body":"up early on, the hurt partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3255.96,"endTime":3259.32,"body":"starts to feel safer and begins"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3259.32,"endTime":3262.38,"body":"to heal this again. This is like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3259.32,"endTime":3262.38,"body":"you give them permission to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3262.38,"endTime":3265.47,"body":"start to heal. When they see"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3262.38,"endTime":3265.47,"body":"that you're serious about it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3265.98,"endTime":3268.77,"body":"It's not It's nothing. It's no"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3265.98,"endTime":3268.77,"body":"more complicated than that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3268.77,"endTime":3272.37,"body":"Yeah, it's just that yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3268.77,"endTime":3272.37,"body":"understand. I feel badly that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3272.37,"endTime":3274.89,"body":"I've hurt you. I see where I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3272.37,"endTime":3274.89,"body":"hurt you. I want to make things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3274.89,"endTime":3278.16,"body":"right. That gives you the cue to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3274.89,"endTime":3278.16,"body":"say okay, we can move forward."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3278.19,"endTime":3283.53,"body":"Yeah, it doesn't start until you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3278.19,"endTime":3283.53,"body":"do that though. Right. So. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3284.4,"endTime":3287.64,"body":"yeah, this is a paradox because"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3284.4,"endTime":3287.64,"body":"the sadness this grief this"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3287.64,"endTime":3291.9,"body":"horrible conversation or series"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3287.64,"endTime":3291.9,"body":"of conversations, actually"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3291.9,"endTime":3295.62,"body":"kickstart the healing process,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3291.9,"endTime":3295.62,"body":"believe it or not. So if the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3295.62,"endTime":3298.47,"body":"addicted partner stay stubborn"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3295.62,"endTime":3298.47,"body":"and doesn't take responsibility"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3298.47,"endTime":3301.11,"body":"for their actions, the hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3298.47,"endTime":3301.11,"body":"partner feel stuck and cannot"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3301.11,"endTime":3304.62,"body":"imagine a healthy relationship."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3301.11,"endTime":3304.62,"body":"It's scary if their partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3304.62,"endTime":3307.98,"body":"doesn't seem to care about their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3304.62,"endTime":3307.98,"body":"pain, or won't talk about their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3307.98,"endTime":3310.77,"body":"how their actions hurt them."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3307.98,"endTime":3310.77,"body":"After being hurt, the hurt"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3310.77,"endTime":3313.59,"body":"partner doesn't feel like they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3310.77,"endTime":3313.59,"body":"matter to their partner anymore."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3313.98,"endTime":3316.35,"body":"Only by truly understanding each"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3313.98,"endTime":3316.35,"body":"other's feelings can they start"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3316.35,"endTime":3319.74,"body":"to rebuild the connection. And"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3316.35,"endTime":3319.74,"body":"so often addicted partners brush"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3319.74,"endTime":3322.08,"body":"off their partners concerns or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3319.74,"endTime":3322.08,"body":"say they don't want to talk"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3322.08,"endTime":3325.02,"body":"about it anymore. Even if they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3322.08,"endTime":3325.02,"body":"try to take responsibility,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3325.02,"endTime":3327.57,"body":"their unwillingness to face the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3325.02,"endTime":3327.57,"body":"reality of what they've done,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3327.81,"endTime":3330.93,"body":"leaves their partner feeling"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3327.81,"endTime":3330.93,"body":"stuck, unimportant and unloved."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3331.38,"endTime":3333.54,"body":"In these situations, the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3331.38,"endTime":3333.54,"body":"addicted partner is saying their"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3333.57,"endTime":3337.56,"body":"own discomfort matters more than"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3333.57,"endTime":3337.56,"body":"their partner's pain. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3337.56,"endTime":3340.89,"body":"what's really is being said,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3337.56,"endTime":3340.89,"body":"Yeah, healing and making things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3340.89,"endTime":3345.21,"body":"worse. Healing and making things"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3340.89,"endTime":3345.21,"body":"right are possible. But it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3345.21,"endTime":3347.46,"body":"important for the data partner"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3345.21,"endTime":3347.46,"body":"to acknowledge the seriousness"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3347.46,"endTime":3350.64,"body":"of what they've done. If you're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3347.46,"endTime":3350.64,"body":"the addicted partner, listen to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3350.64,"endTime":3353.46,"body":"your partner and be ready for a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3350.64,"endTime":3353.46,"body":"long journey of healing. Your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3353.46,"endTime":3355.95,"body":"effort to understanding will go"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3353.46,"endTime":3355.95,"body":"a long way in rebuilding trust."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3357.33,"endTime":3359.97,"body":"I've seen more times I can count"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3357.33,"endTime":3359.97,"body":"people that have actually worked"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3359.97,"endTime":3363.21,"body":"through like the 12 steps have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3359.97,"endTime":3363.21,"body":"this built into them. Yeah, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3363.21,"endTime":3366.69,"body":"have a ninth and 10th step where"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3363.21,"endTime":3366.69,"body":"we make them make a list of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3366.69,"endTime":3368.76,"body":"people that you've harmed, or"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3366.69,"endTime":3368.76,"body":"sorry, an eighth and ninth step"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3368.76,"endTime":3371.1,"body":"where you make a list of people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3368.76,"endTime":3371.1,"body":"you've harmed, and then you make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3371.1,"endTime":3376.17,"body":"amends to them. It's, it's what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3371.1,"endTime":3376.17,"body":"I did was wrong. I feel bad that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3376.17,"endTime":3378.75,"body":"I've hurt you. What can I do to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3376.17,"endTime":3378.75,"body":"make that right? Yeah. And the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3378.75,"endTime":3382.74,"body":"last part, what can I do to make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3378.75,"endTime":3382.74,"body":"that right, that is a verb, an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3382.77,"endTime":3387.51,"body":"action phrase. That is not to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3382.77,"endTime":3387.51,"body":"say, sorry, I don't even let"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3387.51,"endTime":3391.32,"body":"people say sorry. Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3387.51,"endTime":3391.32,"body":"it might come out because it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3391.47,"endTime":3395.16,"body":"Oh, yeah. Because yeah, I feel"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3391.47,"endTime":3395.16,"body":"badly what I've done. I feel I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3395.16,"endTime":3397.86,"body":"feel badly that I've hurt you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3395.16,"endTime":3397.86,"body":"what I did was wrong. What can I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3397.86,"endTime":3398.07,"body":"do to"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3398.07,"endTime":3400.71,"body":"make that right, and"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3398.07,"endTime":3400.71,"body":"amends happened throughout your"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3400.71,"endTime":3401.76,"body":"life? There are different types"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3401.76,"endTime":3404.07,"body":"of amends. Right. So"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3401.76,"endTime":3404.07,"body":"there's like financial amends,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3404.1,"endTime":3407.22,"body":"like, yeah, say that I've stolen"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3404.1,"endTime":3407.22,"body":"money from someone. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3407.25,"endTime":3410.19,"body":"Financial amends would be like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3407.25,"endTime":3410.19,"body":"Okay, I understand all that. But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3410.19,"endTime":3412.89,"body":"you owe me 500 bucks. Like,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3410.19,"endTime":3412.89,"body":"that's how you can start to make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3412.89,"endTime":3416.43,"body":"things right. Like you got, oh,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3412.89,"endTime":3416.43,"body":"500 bucks. I'll pay 500 bucks."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3416.46,"endTime":3420.54,"body":"Yeah. Sometimes they're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3416.46,"endTime":3420.54,"body":"emotional. And it's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3420.54,"endTime":3425.28,"body":"pain, like you're lying, has"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3420.54,"endTime":3425.28,"body":"left me unable to trust anyone,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3425.31,"endTime":3430.14,"body":"even myself. Okay, so I can't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3425.31,"endTime":3430.14,"body":"fix that today. No, I can't fix"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3430.14,"endTime":3433.11,"body":"that with an apology or any"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3430.14,"endTime":3433.11,"body":"words, that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3433.11,"endTime":3435.84,"body":"actions over years, right?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3433.11,"endTime":3435.84,"body":"That's going to be me doing the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3435.84,"endTime":3440.4,"body":"right thing over a very long"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3435.84,"endTime":3440.4,"body":"period of time. And then it's at"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3440.4,"endTime":3442.8,"body":"some point that once again, the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3440.4,"endTime":3442.8,"body":"balls in your court, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3442.8,"endTime":3445.62,"body":"to decide whether or not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3442.8,"endTime":3445.62,"body":"untrustworthy, yes, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3445.62,"endTime":3448.83,"body":"to say, Okay, well, he's been"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3445.62,"endTime":3448.83,"body":"trustworthy, I can see that. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3449.04,"endTime":3452.91,"body":"appreciate that. Now, it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3449.04,"endTime":3452.91,"body":"within me. Yeah, I have to allow"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3452.91,"endTime":3455.25,"body":"myself to do that. Right. You"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3452.91,"endTime":3455.25,"body":"know, and then there's living"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3455.25,"endTime":3457.89,"body":"amends, which is like some"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3455.25,"endTime":3457.89,"body":"people don't, you don't have the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3457.89,"endTime":3460.5,"body":"opportunity to make amends with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3457.89,"endTime":3460.5,"body":"either they passed away. They"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3460.5,"endTime":3462.99,"body":"don't ever want to talk to you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3460.5,"endTime":3462.99,"body":"again. And for those types of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3462.99,"endTime":3466.86,"body":"people, we truly just do the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3462.99,"endTime":3466.86,"body":"next right thing at all times,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3466.86,"endTime":3468.48,"body":"like integrity is doing the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3466.86,"endTime":3468.48,"body":"right thing when no one's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3468.48,"endTime":3471.15,"body":"watching, right. And that's sort"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3468.48,"endTime":3471.15,"body":"of what we're doing here. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3471.15,"endTime":3474.24,"body":"it's like just making living"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3471.15,"endTime":3474.24,"body":"amends to people. But a lot I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3474.24,"endTime":3478.56,"body":"seen this so many times is where"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3474.24,"endTime":3478.56,"body":"there are men that just say, I'm"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3478.56,"endTime":3480.96,"body":"just gonna make a living amends."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3478.56,"endTime":3480.96,"body":"That's just what I'm gonna do."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3481.05,"endTime":3485.1,"body":"They decide what the amends look"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3481.05,"endTime":3485.1,"body":"like for everyone around them by"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3485.1,"endTime":3487.62,"body":"just doing the right thing."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3485.1,"endTime":3487.62,"body":"That's another way I was trying."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3487.65,"endTime":3490.98,"body":"I know. Well, but that's not how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3487.65,"endTime":3490.98,"body":"this works. Yeah, that's just"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3490.98,"endTime":3495.81,"body":"not how it works. It's people"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3490.98,"endTime":3495.81,"body":"listen to them. Yeah, there"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3495.81,"endTime":3499.29,"body":"might be an actual action that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3495.81,"endTime":3499.29,"body":"they would like to see. There"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3499.29,"endTime":3502.74,"body":"are so many wheelies that have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3499.29,"endTime":3502.74,"body":"not gotten their day in court,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3502.77,"endTime":3505.68,"body":"when it comes to this. Someone"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3502.77,"endTime":3505.68,"body":"who has just quit drinking and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3505.68,"endTime":3511.26,"body":"gone dry. And they'll just they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3505.68,"endTime":3511.26,"body":"will decide, here's what I've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3511.26,"endTime":3515.85,"body":"done wrong. In my eyes, here's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3511.26,"endTime":3515.85,"body":"what I'm going to do to change"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3515.85,"endTime":3518.94,"body":"it moving forward in my eyes"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3515.85,"endTime":3518.94,"body":"without ever bringing the other"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3518.94,"endTime":3522.21,"body":"person into consideration and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3518.94,"endTime":3522.21,"body":"asking them what would you need"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3522.21,"endTime":3525.03,"body":"to see from me to feel safe"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3522.21,"endTime":3525.03,"body":"again? What would you need to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3525.03,"endTime":3528.24,"body":"see for me to trust me again?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3525.03,"endTime":3528.24,"body":"What can I do? And the answer is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3528.24,"endTime":3530.61,"body":"in the beginning, like I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3528.24,"endTime":3530.61,"body":"even know Yeah, but definitely"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3530.64,"endTime":3531.87,"body":"keep asking but even"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3531.87,"endTime":3535.62,"body":"bringing that up is a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3531.87,"endTime":3535.62,"body":"huge like we can we forgive me"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3535.62,"endTime":3538.71,"body":"I'm not forgive but we like"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3535.62,"endTime":3538.71,"body":"we're really open to things."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3538.74,"endTime":3542.31,"body":"Yeah, you know, just talk to us"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3538.74,"endTime":3542.31,"body":"want to make things work. Yes."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3542.4,"endTime":3546.09,"body":"Be vulnerable, open, talk to us."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3542.4,"endTime":3546.09,"body":"And it'll it'll help the process"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3546.09,"endTime":3547.89,"body":"go by easier for you. But"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3546.09,"endTime":3547.89,"body":"listen,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3547.89,"endTime":3552.78,"body":"like, we don't get to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3547.89,"endTime":3552.78,"body":"decide how other people move on"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3552.78,"endTime":3556.95,"body":"and recover. No, it's not my"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3552.78,"endTime":3556.95,"body":"decision to make was I'm the one"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3556.95,"endTime":3561.57,"body":"who offended I'm the one who did"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3556.95,"endTime":3561.57,"body":"the harm. You get to decide how"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3561.57,"endTime":3565.5,"body":"and when you recover, right? But"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3561.57,"endTime":3565.5,"body":"at some point, it becomes your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3565.5,"endTime":3568.86,"body":"responsibility. If I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3565.5,"endTime":3568.86,"body":"everything and I think that's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3568.86,"endTime":3571.8,"body":"where people get things twisted"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3568.86,"endTime":3571.8,"body":"a lot is because they want to be"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3571.8,"endTime":3574.53,"body":"like well, am I just gonna get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3571.8,"endTime":3574.53,"body":"killed forever on this? I don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3574.53,"endTime":3578.1,"body":"know maybe but probably not. My"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3574.53,"endTime":3578.1,"body":"experience has been that no,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3578.1,"endTime":3581.16,"body":"that's not the case. Once they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3578.1,"endTime":3581.16,"body":"have enough good experiences"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3581.16,"endTime":3583.59,"body":"outweigh the bad that's when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3581.16,"endTime":3583.59,"body":"forgiveness really happens."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3583.65,"endTime":3585.69,"body":"Yeah, and they still"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3583.65,"endTime":3585.69,"body":"might bring it up more than once"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3585.69,"endTime":3588.69,"body":"and you need to be prepared for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3585.69,"endTime":3588.69,"body":"that and like so be it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3589.02,"endTime":3591.84,"body":"Soviet you are not your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3589.02,"endTime":3591.84,"body":"addiction. You are not a"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3591.84,"endTime":3594.33,"body":"horrible person might done bad"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3591.84,"endTime":3594.33,"body":"things that you need to make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3594.33,"endTime":3598.23,"body":"right on. There you go. That's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3594.33,"endTime":3598.23,"body":"it. Yeah. So drop it with the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3598.23,"endTime":3603.63,"body":"poor me. Oh, no. Have you beat"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3598.23,"endTime":3603.63,"body":"me up? Man? That's not what"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3603.63,"endTime":3606.39,"body":"people are trying to do. You've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3603.63,"endTime":3606.39,"body":"hurt them. Yeah, right, have"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3606.39,"endTime":3609.21,"body":"empathy and compassion for the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3606.39,"endTime":3609.21,"body":"people that you've hurt and make"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3609.21,"endTime":3612.69,"body":"these things right. You're never"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3609.21,"endTime":3612.69,"body":"going anywhere, not just in your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3612.69,"endTime":3616.41,"body":"marriage. But in life. If you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3612.69,"endTime":3616.41,"body":"cannot take accountability, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3616.41,"endTime":3620.28,"body":"know, how many books are written"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3616.41,"endTime":3620.28,"body":"about accountability and applied"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3620.28,"endTime":3624.0,"body":"to business, like the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3620.28,"endTime":3624.0,"body":"professional world, like it is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3624.0,"endTime":3626.64,"body":"crucial to organizations, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3624.0,"endTime":3626.64,"body":"know, an organization in the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3626.64,"endTime":3629.28,"body":"United States has the most"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3626.64,"endTime":3629.28,"body":"accountability built into it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3629.64,"endTime":3634.41,"body":"The military, it is all about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3629.64,"endTime":3634.41,"body":"accountability. It's all about"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3634.44,"endTime":3638.28,"body":"accountability. If you don't, if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3634.44,"endTime":3638.28,"body":"you have not done your role, if"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3638.28,"endTime":3641.13,"body":"you have not done your job, you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3638.28,"endTime":3641.13,"body":"are out. Yeah, sometimes you can"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3641.13,"endTime":3646.56,"body":"throw your ass in jail for it."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3641.13,"endTime":3646.56,"body":"Let's take that same, even even"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3646.56,"endTime":3649.23,"body":"a percentage of it into our"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3646.56,"endTime":3649.23,"body":"relationships and things get"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3649.23,"endTime":3652.2,"body":"better. But in recovery is so"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3649.23,"endTime":3652.2,"body":"needed, man, you have to give"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3652.2,"endTime":3655.62,"body":"people the permission to begin"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3652.2,"endTime":3655.62,"body":"to heal. And that starts with,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3656.1,"endTime":3659.79,"body":"you have to get it. If you don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3656.1,"endTime":3659.79,"body":"get it if you don't see how bad"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3659.79,"endTime":3663.81,"body":"you've hurt someone. If you've"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3659.79,"endTime":3663.81,"body":"never even considered how they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3663.81,"endTime":3666.06,"body":"feel about it and your ideas."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3663.81,"endTime":3666.06,"body":"Just we're just going to move"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3666.06,"endTime":3669.21,"body":"forward and move on. Man. It's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3666.06,"endTime":3669.21,"body":"going to be a rough road is not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3669.21,"endTime":3672.24,"body":"going to get better. Anything"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3669.21,"endTime":3672.24,"body":"else?"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3672.269,"endTime":3673.439,"body":"No think that's solid?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3673.5,"endTime":3676.44,"body":"Okay. All right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3673.5,"endTime":3676.44,"body":"that's all we've got here. Hope"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3676.44,"endTime":3679.26,"body":"that was helpful. Yeah, that was"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3676.44,"endTime":3679.26,"body":"our experience with it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3679.29,"endTime":3682.74,"body":"Have you forgiven me? Angry?"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3679.29,"endTime":3682.74,"body":"Tiktok. Lady. I've forgiven you."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3682.77,"endTime":3687.66,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. After Tiktok says"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3682.77,"endTime":3687.66,"body":"you still mad mad bro. They're"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3687.66,"endTime":3692.01,"body":"dumb. It's funny, because we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3687.66,"endTime":3692.01,"body":"have to go visit, like subjects"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3692.01,"endTime":3697.08,"body":"and topics a lot that we've long"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3692.01,"endTime":3697.08,"body":"since healed from Yeah. So we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3697.08,"endTime":3699.42,"body":"have to live them through other"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3697.08,"endTime":3699.42,"body":"people's experiences and"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3699.42,"endTime":3702.99,"body":"stories. So a lot of times when"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3699.42,"endTime":3702.99,"body":"there's a video, it's a reaction"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3702.99,"endTime":3707.34,"body":"to someone's story. So it's"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3702.99,"endTime":3707.34,"body":"like, Ooh, yeah, I have feelings"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3707.34,"endTime":3709.74,"body":"on this. But that's not"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3707.34,"endTime":3709.74,"body":"necessarily a reflection of your"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3709.74,"endTime":3710.19,"body":"current"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3710.22,"endTime":3712.23,"body":"my current state? No,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3710.22,"endTime":3712.23,"body":"it's just that I've been there"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3712.23,"endTime":3715.02,"body":"before. I know what you're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3712.23,"endTime":3715.02,"body":"feeling. I'm putting myself in"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3715.02,"endTime":3717.87,"body":"other people's shoes that I've"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3715.02,"endTime":3717.87,"body":"been there. It's it. It's also"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3717.87,"endTime":3720.78,"body":"having empathy as well, because"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3717.87,"endTime":3720.78,"body":"I am putting myself in their"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3720.78,"endTime":3723.42,"body":"shoes, even though I've been"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3720.78,"endTime":3723.42,"body":"there. But I'm going down. I'm"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3723.42,"endTime":3726.3,"body":"going back to a space you know,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3723.42,"endTime":3726.3,"body":"that I haven't been in in a long"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3726.3,"endTime":3730.56,"body":"time. I don't. I'm their voice."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3726.3,"endTime":3730.56,"body":"Right. You know, you're you're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3730.56,"endTime":3734.52,"body":"their advocate. I'm there for"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3730.56,"endTime":3734.52,"body":"them. And if if you think that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3734.52,"endTime":3738.09,"body":"I'm still resentful, you're"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3734.52,"endTime":3738.09,"body":"crazy. I'm Our marriage is very"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3738.09,"endTime":3738.57,"body":"strong."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3738.66,"endTime":3742.32,"body":"Yeah, we just left. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3738.66,"endTime":3742.32,"body":"went to the wedding in Colorado"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3742.32,"endTime":3746.55,"body":"and had so much fun. Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3742.32,"endTime":3746.55,"body":"We danced all night together. We"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3746.82,"endTime":3749.97,"body":"had an incredible time. Yes."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3746.82,"endTime":3749.97,"body":"That we have meaningful"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3749.97,"endTime":3752.31,"body":"conversation. So much love. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3749.97,"endTime":3752.31,"body":"look across the room to see you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3752.31,"endTime":3757.56,"body":"staring at me, smiling. Yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3752.31,"endTime":3757.56,"body":"know that look, that is like you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3757.77,"endTime":3762.24,"body":"love me. You are in love with"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3757.77,"endTime":3762.24,"body":"me. Yes. You see me and you"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3762.24,"endTime":3765.3,"body":"admire me and all that's present"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3762.24,"endTime":3765.3,"body":"in our marriage again? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3765.3,"endTime":3768.39,"body":"Started with this process of"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3765.3,"endTime":3768.39,"body":"accountability. Yes. Without"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3768.39,"endTime":3769.59,"body":"this? No."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3770.52,"endTime":3772.83,"body":"I was telling you that. I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3770.52,"endTime":3772.83,"body":"know. We have to get off here"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3772.83,"endTime":3775.98,"body":"really quickly, because we get"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3772.83,"endTime":3775.98,"body":"our kid. But I was telling you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3775.98,"endTime":3779.37,"body":"earlier that I don't think that"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3775.98,"endTime":3779.37,"body":"our marriage would have worked"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3779.37,"endTime":3783.36,"body":"out had you not taking taking"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3779.37,"endTime":3783.36,"body":"responsibility and hold, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3783.36,"endTime":3786.78,"body":"know, been accountable? No, it"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3783.36,"endTime":3786.78,"body":"was acknowledged and miserable"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3786.78,"endTime":3789.54,"body":"for me to actually change, like,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3786.78,"endTime":3789.54,"body":"and not even just changing, but"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3789.54,"endTime":3794.76,"body":"not. You saying you're sorry."},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3789.54,"endTime":3794.76,"body":"And actually acknowledging what"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3794.76,"endTime":3798.36,"body":"you did was a big deal. And a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3794.76,"endTime":3798.36,"body":"lot of people don't realize"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3798.36,"endTime":3798.87,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3800.19,"endTime":3803.07,"body":"It is. But it's not. It"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3800.19,"endTime":3803.07,"body":"shouldn't be that that we should"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3803.07,"endTime":3804.18,"body":"just make this normal. And"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3804.24,"endTime":3807.39,"body":"oh, no, I'm saying it's a"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3804.24,"endTime":3807.39,"body":"big deal for me. Oh, okay. No, I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3807.39,"endTime":3809.43,"body":"mean, for you, it should be"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3807.39,"endTime":3809.43,"body":"simple. Should it be like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3809.43,"endTime":3811.98,"body":"man, you know, I harmed you, you"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3809.43,"endTime":3811.98,"body":"know, but for me, it was a big"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3811.98,"endTime":3814.47,"body":"deal. Because if it didn't"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3811.98,"endTime":3814.47,"body":"happen, I don't think our"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3814.47,"endTime":3815.61,"body":"marriage would have worked."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3815.73,"endTime":3819.78,"body":"Yeah. I don't see how it"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3815.73,"endTime":3819.78,"body":"can Yeah, how can it? I"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3819.78,"endTime":3823.86,"body":"would, I would not have"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3819.78,"endTime":3823.86,"body":"felt safe. And i i We all"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3823.86,"endTime":3826.47,"body":"deserve to feel safe in our"},{"speaker":"Paige","startTime":3823.86,"endTime":3826.47,"body":"relationships."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3826.5,"endTime":3828.63,"body":"Yeah. And if you don't"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3826.5,"endTime":3828.63,"body":"have safety, dude, like we"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3828.63,"endTime":3831.81,"body":"talked about intimacy, like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3828.63,"endTime":3831.81,"body":"that's off the table. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3831.81,"endTime":3833.79,"body":"that's off the table. Like"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3831.81,"endTime":3833.79,"body":"everything's off the table"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3833.79,"endTime":3836.91,"body":"without the safety. Yes, they"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3833.79,"endTime":3836.91,"body":"have to trust being safe is"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3836.91,"endTime":3839.79,"body":"number one priority. Yeah. In"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3836.91,"endTime":3839.79,"body":"order to trust that you have to"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3839.79,"endTime":3843.6,"body":"get it. They need to know that"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3839.79,"endTime":3843.6,"body":"you understand what you've done."},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3843.63,"endTime":3846.39,"body":"Yes. And that helps with the"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3843.63,"endTime":3846.39,"body":"conversation, not a unilateral"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3846.39,"endTime":3852.06,"body":"decision to move forward in an"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3846.39,"endTime":3852.06,"body":"arbitrary Yeah. All right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3852.09,"endTime":3854.13,"body":"that's all we've got. Until next"},{"speaker":"Matt","startTime":3852.09,"endTime":3854.13,"body":"time, I'm Matt"}]}