Lex.Btw.TheLines...
Lex.Btw.TheLines...
Unveiling "Loving You Blind": Author Insights, Character Depths, and Entrepreneurial Ventures with Christian Cashelle
This episode explores the rich themes of love, trauma, and personal growth depicted in Christian Cashelle's book 'Loving You Blind.' With discussions on character development, the writing process, and the publishing journey, listeners gain insight into how real-life experiences shape fictional narratives.
• Christian introduces herself and discusses her accomplishments
• Trigger warnings regarding adult language and emotional topics
• The importance of Google Alerts for authors and engagement
• Nicole's character journey and the lessons from her relationships
• The impact of music on character development
• Insights into Dynamic Image Publications and its mission
• Christian shares her writing process and handling heavy emotional themes
• Preview of her upcoming literary project, ‘What Keeps Us Up at Night’
outro
I don't know why I get so nervous when I'm getting ready to start and do like the intro all righty hey y'all.
Speaker 1:Hey, I am Lex and you are watching and listening to lakes between the lines before we go ahead and get into it. For the most part, I always try to stay in between the lines, but I feel like today we're gonna cross a few because this right here. So let's go ahead and give you the trigger warnings. Number one I already know there it's going to be some adult language, strong, strong adult language. Um. Number two I don't think we talk about too much trauma, so not too much. I just want to warn you about the language. The more emotional I get, the more the words just seem to kind of spill out of their own wheel. So, without further ado, I am going to let my co-host of today introduce herself. I am so excited that she took the time to come and talk to us.
Speaker 2:No problem, thank you for having me, girl. So hi Lex's audience. My name is Christian Cashel. I am the owner of Dynamic Image Publications. We have been in business since 2009, so we are getting a little old, but Loving you Blind is my 13th book, so I'm also an author as well as a publisher. I have a few accolades, I guess you know. Last year, I was actually awarded the Emerging Entrepreneur Award for the Joy Tudor Awards up in New York. I was also the nominator for author of the year for the Midwest Black Best of Black Awards in 2023, but I won the award in 2022. Come through, okay, okay. And then I also won best author in 2023 at the Heels and Hustle Awards in Houston, and I am one of the top 10 editors in St Louis. So I'm very appreciative and honored to have all of those accolades as well. As I have published I think we have 16 titles so far on dynamic image.
Speaker 2:Most of them are mine but you have other authors as well, so I'm excited for our company to grow and just to talk about books it's our favorite thing to talk about.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm trying to take notes so I can ask what you said. Top 10. I did not know that Me neither.
Speaker 2:I found out by Googling myself a couple months ago, and that's what popped up.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. They didn't send you. I feel like you should have got an award.
Speaker 2:Nobody told me anything, honey. I was just randomly Googling myself and I was like what is this? And I was on the list.
Speaker 1:So, note to self, we need to start Googling ourselves and see what pops up.
Speaker 2:Because we never know what we want. Put an alert on your name. Put a Google alert on your name. That's what you got to do. How?
Speaker 1:do you put a Google alert?
Speaker 2:If you go in like the settings on Google, I believe it's in there. Let me make sure I'm telling you the truth.
Speaker 1:Look, teach us something.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do them on my publishing company and on me and, like my authors, so whenever somebody does like a review of your book or anything or mentions your name yep, so it'll send you an email I think I kind of I set it to where it just comes like once a week, and it'll send you like a list of where, like the links, that where your name is mentioned.
Speaker 1:So, like on TikTok, if somebody leaves you a review or says your name on TikTok or Instagram, it automatically alerts you.
Speaker 2:Yep, it'll send you an email if it pops up on Google. So if you actually Google Google alerts, it'll pop up and then you can add whatever you want to create an alert about I feel like we need to get that out there so that more authors are aware of that.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to do a little bit more on that. Yes, we definitely need that. We want to be a resource right all the way around, like and then I got a business too, so now I'm kind of thinking, like my mind I might stay focused. Yeah, that's not what we here for.
Speaker 2:We here for book talk today no, I will put an alert on your industry, on your, your business name, anything that people might google that's related to your business.
Speaker 1:Put all that on there, miss cashel, you better help us out now. Look, I always ask how the hell did you come up with these characters? Like is these people like you know? And you made this into like a fictional, non-fictional type situation because this it is just too good, like this is just did the characters just come to you? How did we start?
Speaker 2:so I actually. So this is the third installment of this series, so the first one is called move the needle and it's very lovey-dovey, very. I was like lacking romance in my real life, so I was like I want to write something real sweet. But you know, we got supporting characters and these supporting characters took a life of their own, and so this book, loving you blind, follows one of the supporting characters from the beginning, and you know everything isn't peachy. So I was like somebody got to go through some drama and that's just how we got to Nicole. So Nicole was done wrong. Well, she wasn't really done wrong.
Speaker 2:So I think from just TikTok and social media, we see a lot of situations where women miss the signs. Right, he wasn't committing to her, but he was doing everything else and she was falling into that, and so Loving you Blind is just kind of her trying to come out of that trauma space that she was in with Julian, but she can't, obviously, because you know. So just her growing from that. So I don't, I didn't base these off of anybody. I actually just got inspiration from the playlist that I included in the book. So listen to those songs and kind of just from there.
Speaker 1:Look, you missed the song. Let me make sure. Let me go back through the song to make sure. Mm. Hmm, you got Jasmine Sullivan on there, but you forgot.
Speaker 2:Bust the windows out your car she didn't do that, though she wasn't about that life.
Speaker 1:I wanted her to bust the windows, so bad his office would have been a wreck child, do you hear me? So wait, because I got this book and I did not know it was through. It was other books ahead of it, because I got it in a pr box and I said so the book two? Does it talk about her and julian? Do we get more?
Speaker 2:in the book two is actually about julian's love triangle. So in the beginning of the book two he's dating nicole. She's actually their assistant, so it's a workplace romance. But then his ex comes back and his ex is the reason he won't commit to anybody and the ex is fighting for him and he ends up choosing the ex over Nicole. So we get to see the actual fight in book, the actual fight and all of everything that goes on before we get to this book, that's, in book two.
Speaker 1:Because I kept on saying I'm missing. I kept on saying who the hell is this helpful?
Speaker 2:Like no, you didn't. Jessica came back, got her man and dipped off.
Speaker 1:I need a warning, like in the box, like girl, this is this book but it's got other ones that you should read before because I was like okay, so I feel bad for judging her now that I don't really know their situation you're still going to judge her because it's obvious in book two that he's never going to pick her like that tiktok sign say it's never gonna be.
Speaker 1:You like it was never gonna be her wait, there were signs in book two that show that she definitely should have been paying attention to my mind is like on 10 right now, because, okay, nicole, sweetheart you weren't thinking clearly and then here I go, was upset because raina, when it first started I was tired. I ain't right now, but then as it go, and I'm like girl, she, your voice of reason, like she's trying to tell the reason, like because you tripping, like yeah and then we finally meet somebody and don't know how to act and then look, I think that's another um.
Speaker 1:Who's saying she's a runner, she's a track star. Who's saying she's a?
Speaker 2:runner. She's a track star. We needed that. She was. She was ready to go. Any sign. That wasn't right.
Speaker 1:She was like it was one instance where I felt like she had the right to to kind of run or at least, um, make his ass wait. Because how dare you propose to me and even though it is, but it ain't your daughter, it is, but it ain't your baby right why that I find out like these?
Speaker 1:we've been together and rocking all of this time and to find out at that party I wanted her. I said, oh why she ain't make Nicole about that life. I wanted her to knock. So I don't give a damn if it's mom was there.
Speaker 2:Girl, knock all that shit off the table and the cousin would make her like that, because I feel like all those strong female characters are very good. I don't feel like that represents everybody it don't even though that's what we be wanting to do everybody. So I couldn't. I couldn't have her act out like that. I understand, I understand I ain't gonna.
Speaker 1:It was hard to write, though I will tell that I was like this is like sitting right with me what was going through your mind when you were writing that part like this heifer was sitting smug at the birthday party yeah do we get like a backstory into that, like uh, extended into that relationship, do we?
Speaker 2:get to see that. I was thinking about that when you said that I was like I could do a little extended, but I think the reason I didn't was because at the beginning rashad came off like almost too good to be true, it's like why, are you lying with her? To come back after she did what she did and ghosted him, and so I had to give him a little dirt.
Speaker 1:I couldn't just it's funny that you said Cause I literally was like I'm waiting on the other. I was like this shit going too good, I was waiting On the other. Shit like, what's like, what's about to like, what is he about to do? That's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then when you put when they came, I about tossed that book, the cousin was so messy, cause why. And then, when they came, I about tossed that book.
Speaker 2:The cousin was so messy, because why? Why did you invite her? Why you invite her?
Speaker 1:But you know, that's how people are in real life. That's why it was crazy, because it was so relatable.
Speaker 2:Like we've actually seen this. That's why it was so relatable.
Speaker 1:Like oh, I just wanted him to see the this other woman and she didn't even know about you. I, yeah. And then it was crazy because everybody and that was dude that be pissing me off when everybody know- that's like a slap in the face.
Speaker 2:Now everybody got to die.
Speaker 1:And I said now Christian then gave us at this end, at the end of the book I said I don't got a few more pages, like when the baby why? You gave us that little snippet of the conversation that we weren't privy to argument, that we were not privy to say I had to go back to the book like did I miss?
Speaker 2:something. I think that's what I would if I did the extended version. I would definitely put that in there because we need to know.
Speaker 1:Like julian said, he wanted his family back and he went and told him and we didn't know.
Speaker 2:Like what kind of conversation went, what you think I don't know.
Speaker 1:And first of all, what the hell did it happen there? Did he? He go to the gym, because where you corner him at At the house, what? I guess it happened at the gym. Yes, everything be happening at the damn gym, everything happening at the gym. So I'm just picturing Julian walking into the gym looking for him because I read book two, but it ain't sound like you'd be working out.
Speaker 2:No, well, Julian does work out, but not so in the second part. Nicole had a little bit of an insecurity with her weight. So that was where the gym kind of came in in this one, because she was, you know. So Julian has been to the gym, but he probably wasn't going as much as Rashad in the cohort.
Speaker 1:So he made it a point to go to the gym that they work out at. Yeah, to go and find him, to let him know that Now was this before or after he had proposed.
Speaker 2:This was after. So this happened after they broke up. But see, in rashad's mind that's still his woman, because you see what he said to her at the gym like I know you tripping right now, but so this happened in between that time okay, so this happened in between the time when she was with fuck boy who was fucking everybody at the gym yeah this a lot, this a lot, this is a lot.
Speaker 1:Hang on. Hang on to that. Thought we gonna finish this right after this commercial break because I got now. I got so many more questions that I need answers. Yeah, we will be right back. Do not go anywhere.
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Speaker 1:Thank you guys, so much for hanging in there with us. Let's go ahead and dive right back into it. So this was after rashad engaged, I mean proposed, they got engaged and she found out about the ex-wife so this was after she found out about the baby and the ex-wife. But while this was going on, this is during the break now. So now she is entertaining fuckboy at the gym. Yeah, so Julian took it upon himself to take his bald peed-a-head ass to the gym to go confront somebody.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, Julian never knew about the breakup. So even when he would take little shots like go stay with your man or something, she would never say anything because she didn't want him to know that they were broken up. So he's still assuming that they're together.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I want, I, I need, I need the back, like I need the back and forth, and then, like the boy, passed through and know who they was talking about and did he listen to him? I feel like he was listening, like maybe he was listening in and be like she ain't with neither one of you, little buggers, cause I'm with her now and she entertaining me. That would be funny, though, for him to just walk up and be like, well, technically, she ain't with neither one of you.
Speaker 2:You would have made me, he don't care, he's just there for a good time not a long time.
Speaker 1:He put in a lot of effort, though for somebody that just want to hit it and quit it. That's what they do and what his baby mama is, because how dare you use my fucking baby to get women at the gym? I don't do it at the gym. In the nursery I said what his baby mama is. Is that even his baby? That's probably his nephew. It's his baby, because what that's so trifling?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know quite a few of them, so his character was easy to write.
Speaker 1:So, when writing these characters, how do you disconnect from them?
Speaker 2:I usually disconnect once I feel like their story is done. If I feel like their story is not done, then they're going to stay in my head. So that's just the honest truth. Even if I'm done with the book, it's just a matter of time. I'm not going to be able to write a book. That's going to be. If I find myself still thinking about them, I'm like dang.
Speaker 2:That means I got to write another part or something else happens, and I think, because a lot of them are inspired by music, is one of my biggest inspirations. It kind of just helps once I get the story out where I'm like all right, what's next. So I'm usually writing like one or two books at the same time. I know that sounds horrible, but it's not.
Speaker 1:I wanted to ask about the relationship between nicole and her mama. When I tell you you put so much relatable, like I was, like I said what, what did she get? I said I hate to. I said I want to ask her these questions but I feel like I said, but she can always tell me we're not going to talk about this, we could just move on to the next question Because I was like it's just so relatable.
Speaker 1:So I wonder if this like personal experience or is it just? But like how did her and her mom like okay, let me back it up, because like we've all seen the mama's mad because the man that they want don't want to be with them, because they got a kid and they don't want to raise them and stuff. So the mama feel like they didn't miss out on a good thing. I was like I wanted to. I don't really have a lot of drama and mess going on in my like real life, so I get it through my like books and stuff, so I ate that up. When she told, when she told her mama off, but then it was like she told her mama all, she said her peace and she left and then they got back together and the mama apologized to her. I wanted some more in-betweens, some more run-ins, like. I needed some more run-ins with her and the mama, like how did that scenario, like how did that trauma come up?
Speaker 2:yeah, fortunately my mama is my girl like we are we locked in. I don't have none of these issues with my mama at all, um, so it wasn't personal experience, um, but I think a lot of times books we tend to see more of the daddy issues when it comes to women and I wanted a different perspective on that because a lot of times as women we learn a lot of things unconsciously from our mothers. So I know I knew her dad wasn't around but I wanted her issue to be with her mom and it just kind of manifested that way. Honestly, it was just kind of like what am I gonna make that issue? And then that just kind of flowed with. I felt like it flowed with how nicole was presenting herself in relationships it definitely.
Speaker 1:And then to know that your daddy was dead close and he didn't even like your dad is literally yeah, that could definitely be another look.
Speaker 2:It definitely could. So this series was actually supposed to be five books long, so there's still two potential stories, um, but there were going to be other characters, um, but it just depends on how this one is received, on what happens next did we get it?
Speaker 1:so, while the dad left the mom in the first place, was he just not ready to be a dad?
Speaker 2:we didn't get it, I never touched on that because I so I'm a stepchild. My stepdad's been around since I was very, very young, um, so I know that that can always go one or two ways, you know, um, so I always wanted one or two ways, you know, so I always wanted that to be the story with the mom.
Speaker 1:So it was kind of just like he just out the way, okay Cause I kept on saying like I said.
Speaker 2:I felt like I wanted it to be so much more longer. I could have did this one, so the other two were about the same length and to me it's really weird when it's like two books are short and then it's like a big, big one. So I kind of want to kind of keep it around the same time. But before I like what happened, I'm like dang, I really could have wrote more, but especially with that.
Speaker 1:And then I said she had to put the spades game up in here. You know, all black people don't know how to play no damn spades, and I'm one of them, so I was salty about that little scene it would have been spades and dominoes.
Speaker 2:It had to be one of them too, and I can't play neither.
Speaker 1:I said why she couldn't put Uno up in there, because I had to tell somebody it's up and uno you're so funny she's childish man. Nobody, don't let me sit at the grown-up table. I want to know more about your publishing company and the other authors that you've published company and the other authors that you've published.
Speaker 2:It's so random, right? I started, so my first book is called Ava's Story. It came out the same year that I started my publishing company, which was 09, I believe and around that time a lot of the vanity presses started popping up. Self-publishing was just starting to get popular and I was looking for a publishing company. I wanted to go the traditional route, but at that time so wahida, clark and triple crown and all them were popping, like the hood books was popping, and then it was like the christian fiction books. And here I am in the middle and I couldn't find any publishing company that I thought would actually cater to this type of book and I was like I'm going to do it myself. It was horrible.
Speaker 2:Wait the first time publishing, doing it yourself.
Speaker 1:It was rough.
Speaker 2:So it was definitely a learning experience. The book was black with white letters no, typographic design wasn't formatted right. I went with the press where I had to buy in bulk, so I had like 200 books sitting in the house. Letters no, typographic design wasn't formatted right. I went with the press where I had to buy in bulk, so I had like 200 books sitting in the house because I didn't really know I had to market a book.
Speaker 2:I just thought I had to put it out. It was a lot. It was a learning experience for sure. After that first one, I started to get deep into the research of it. What set us apart? Some of the stigmas around self-publishing, like editing, formatting, all the things that the big publishing houses do that self-publishers don't. I learned and put out two more of my own books. I was like, okay, I can do this for other people now. So right now we have three, four authors, so three including myself. We have nonfiction books. We have a really good devotional. It's called Save Top Mess and, yes, it is how it sounds.
Speaker 2:Sounds like me, it sounds like me right and that's exactly what it is. She talks about a lot of topics that are taboo in church today but need to be talked about. So we have poetry collections, we have romance drama, we have a lot of different ones. Right now I'm looking to get a couple more romance authors. So we are getting submissions for next year, but it just kind of snowballs. So over the years I've just been deep in learning what editing looks like, what formatting looks like, things like that, and there aren't a lot of black publishers, indie publishers, or black editors or execs in the industry. So I just think it's really important to have that space to where it's authentic and it's not being watered down or changed.
Speaker 1:But how do? Professional so how do you find, how do they find you like, do agents reach out to you, or how does that process work, or what does that process look like?
Speaker 2:most of it's actually been word of mouth. It's uh, I mean not unfortunately, but I've been very fortunate where people have reached out to me just based off of my work and they find out I'm a publisher, and then they'll just be like, hey, because we also do a lot of freelance. So even if we're not publishing under dynamic image, there's a lot of business owners who may want like to put a book out, a self-published book. I help them do that as well. So even if you aren't one of my authors but you don't know none of that process, we do that too. So a lot of it comes through word of mouth. So is this your full-time job or not yet? But we're gonna thank god in advance we claiming it already yes, I actually work.
Speaker 2:Um well, I started a new job as a in the non-profit in the uh metro east area. I'm in st louis, okay, pretty soon, so I'm doing communications for them.
Speaker 1:So my um corporate title is communication it's communicate, so it kind of goes along with like your publishing and stuff too. So everything kind of ties in together, um, which are a publishing company. So do you offer like the marketing or just the publishing? Do you offer like the printing of the books and everything too?
Speaker 2:I knew, I knew my daddy was gonna do that. Um, so right now, um, we don't have a full marketing department, but that is something that I'm looking to hire for this year or next year, uh, so right now, basically it's just the life cycle of the book. So coaching, editing, formatting, design, print and distribution is what we offer at the moment okay, that's not bad at all.
Speaker 1:And then like is there a price? Um, like, where can people come to find you? Can you give us any information?
Speaker 2:to find you. Can you give us any information like what? Yes, so the price range is how big the book is, but our website is di publications calm and we are on all social medias under dip.
Speaker 1:Thank, you come through? It was another thing I wanted, that wanted to egg. So do you do a consultation before they come on, like, do you actually look at the manuscript or you just take on anybody you know, as long as they can?
Speaker 2:No, no, thank God I'm in a place to where I can be a little picky now, but I do consultations. I think what sets us apart is because I am an author as well, so I know the importance of keeping that voice authentic and making sure it's what you're wanting to present to the world. So I always do consultations first, to get to know the author, get to know what they may or may not know, and kind of go from there before I recommend services to them.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that makes sense. I was just wondering. I was like I wonder if anybody can just come and drop off a manuscript, and but I understand if it doesn't match with the brand or if it's not.
Speaker 2:A lot of times that's kind of what happens. So if I get a submission where I'm like it doesn't really fit with us, but I can help you self-publish it or I can help you get it ready for you to query to a traditional publisher, so I always have options. I'm never just gonna turn somebody down because I know how that feels, um, but sometimes it's just which option works best.
Speaker 1:I like that. Um, there's an alternative to that. So, instead of just no, and then they have to figure it out on their own, you at least offer them help on how they can fix it and get it done. Come on, miss christian. So what's next? What should we expect next from who of next?
Speaker 2:I was thinking about Raina, but the actual, the outline in the original five series. In the first book the male, the female main character has a sister and I kind of wanted to do like a fake marriage type of situation with her. So I'm still thinking about that one. We're going to add in a billion. It's going to be a fake marriage, billionaire. I was thinking. So I feel like I like them.
Speaker 1:I eat up a billionaire fake. Oh, that's so obsessed and in love and I love it. Oh, it's so good and it's like you know they're gonna fall for each other.
Speaker 2:It's just the details, it's like you gotta see that chemistry on the page, yes, and then like it, man, oh my god. But I'm actually working on a big novel called what keeps us up at night, um, and it's actually I'm hoping to have it done by next year, but it's. It's a little bit more literary fiction than romance, but it's going to be kind of tied into it, but it's basically um a family story about how black trauma has materialized in different ways I should say that sound like a thriller.
Speaker 1:What keeps?
Speaker 2:us, I mean. So it starts out with the police brutality situation okay um, and then it kind of unveils the issues in this family based on black trauma. Like the grandmother had a brother who was lynched when she was younger. The son doesn't like black women. One of them is a little colorist. All of these aspects of black trauma and how they materialize are going to be in this one family.
Speaker 1:Wait, the son, who don't like black women is black. Yes, oh man materialized.
Speaker 2:are going to be in this one family wait, the son, who don't like black women, is black. Yes, oh man, and he's the one who is going to be the victim of the police brutality. And, of course, we know what happens when that happens is that the black women show up, and so these women that he don't like I was just going to say.
Speaker 1:The same women that you don't like show up and to come and tell you your writing is so diverse, like your catalog what do you write?
Speaker 2:uh, whatever comes out today, I can't tell you. Whatever comes out today is what I'm writing so is that what you're working on now? Yes, I actually started it before I even started this one, but I took a break from it because it got a little heavy and I need to write something a little bit more easy.
Speaker 1:When it does get heavy like that. So is that how you disconnect from it? You just start writing on something.
Speaker 2:I'll either write something a little bit more soft or do like a diy project. So I've been making these notes, the resin notebooks. I added them to my site. They're called forever notebooks now, so I usually kind of do a batch of those or do something else creative to kind of disconnect from the character got you.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I can just imagine how heavy this book is yeah oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:I'm excited about it, though it's been on my heart for a very long time and I think because it is a little different from most of my writing that it was kind of like I didn't want to do it, but I'm like it's time to do it now.
Speaker 1:Do you think it'll be in by like the end of the year?
Speaker 2:For sure the the end of the year. For sure. The first draft will definitely be done by the end of the year.
Speaker 1:I'm probably about halfway done. Okay, because I was like oh, if this come out around like election time, okay, I was gonna say, baby, it ain't gonna be ready by then. Okay I was looking for.
Speaker 2:You know, I was here for it I was here, for I'm I'm not even a reader, though, so we're gonna.
Speaker 1:We're gonna talk about that and I'm here, look cause I ain't too proud to be, ain't too proud to beg at all. Lordy, miss cashel, I thank you so much for joining us to, for joining us today when I say my mind is just like. I'll like, I wanted to, like I said I wanted to ask so many things but I was like I didn't want to delve and um dive into it and do and be too much, because sometimes people like girl, you do the most, you do too much I'm all over the place, so we right together, you know but I thank you for answering and not giving me the.
Speaker 1:We're not going to talk about that, or I can't talk about that. I appreciate you, and so that means we're going to have to come back for another episode, because do you have the name for this? Do you have a name already for the book? You have a name already For the book? Well, you just gave it to us.
Speaker 2:I'm like just give us what keeps us up at night.
Speaker 1:What keeps us up at night. And then it won't be by the end of the year. We won't have a hard copy, so 2025.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's not this far away. It's already at Christmas.
Speaker 1:It's going to be Christmas next week.
Speaker 2:my mind it's already at christmas it's gonna be christmas next week, it is. But I'm just, my mind is like on this book now it's really good if I say that, say so myself.
Speaker 1:I think it's gonna be good and your writing is phenomenal, so I can just imagine oh my god. Again, thank you for taking time with us today. I really appreciate it. So until next time, can you let us know where we can follow you on Facebook and Instagram?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am on Christian Cashel on TikTok, facebook and Instagram. The business is DIP D-I-P underscore books or Dynamic Image Publications.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and thank you guys for tuning in, until next time.