Secrets to Embracing Leadership by Shedding Self-Doubt with Andrea Tessier
Feb 06, 2024Episode 373
Andrea Tessier
Past generations have conditioned women to play a role, to listen and follow someone else’s rules. Meanwhile, our current culture tells us that women can do it all. These competing ideals have created a unique challenge for women in leadership, as they strive to find their authentic voice and break free of the pressure of societal expectations.
In this episode featuring Andrea Tessier, entrepreneur and master coach, you’ll learn how to harness the transformative power of self-awareness and radical confidence to become a powerhouse leader. We talk about imposter syndrome and perfectionism faced by women in leadership roles, focusing on strategies they can use to overcome self-doubt and embrace their own brand of leadership.
Andrea and I discuss the early signs of burnout, collaboration versus competition between women, and the role of self-care in leadership. She also offers great tips to recognize and address overwhelm before you reach a breaking point.
Tune in for a deep dive into the journey of female leadership!
TOPICS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE:
Women’s experience with imposter syndrome and self-doubt
How to recognize and address burnout
Overcoming self-doubt and leading with authenticity
Past generations have conditioned women to play a role, to listen and follow someone else’s rules. Meanwhile, our current culture tells us that women can do it all. These competing ideals have created a unique challenge for women in leadership, as they strive to find their authentic voice and break free of the pressure of societal expectations.
In this episode featuring Andrea Tessier, entrepreneur and master coach, you’ll learn how to harness the transformative power of self-awareness and radical confidence to become a powerhouse leader. We talk about imposter syndrome and perfectionism faced by women in leadership roles, focusing on strategies they can use to overcome self-doubt and embrace their own brand of leadership.
Andrea and I discuss the early signs of burnout, collaboration versus competition between women, and the role of self-care in leadership. She also offers great tips to recognize and address overwhelm before you reach a breaking point.
Tune in for a deep dive into the journey of female leadership!
TOPICS DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE:
Women’s experience with imposter syndrome and self-doubt
How to recognize and address burnout
Overcoming self-doubt and leading with authenticity
Have you wanted to shift how you deal with your self-doubt, desperate for a way to change your approach with radical confidence? Are you exhausted by feeling you are constantly competing versus embracing the relationships around you, especially since you know deep down inside that female leaders have a gift for connecting, relating and nurturing relationships? Our guest, andrea Tessier, talks to us about how you can embrace a leadership style that prioritizes relationships and boundaries, and leverages self-trust to embody being a powerhouse leader. Stay with us, welcome, welcome. Welcome to Shading the Corporate Bitch, the podcast that transforms female corporate executives into powerhouse leaders by showing them how to shed the challenges and overwhelm, along with any fear, insecurity, self-doubt and negativity holding them back. I'm your host, bernadette Beaus of Ball of Fire Coaching, bringing you powerhouse discussions each week to share tips, advice and sometimes tough love so you create the riches in your work and life you deserve. Andrea, how are you? Welcome, welcome welcome.
Speaker 2:
Hi, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so excited to chat with you and your people. So good.
Speaker 1:
I'm excited that you're here. We're gonna also. What I got really excited about is being that you're an entrepreneur who really heavily coaches entrepreneurs fellow entrepreneurs. You will have a very different take on leadership, possibly, and that's why, when it comes to things like imposter syndrome and self-doubt and embracing one's leadership, I thought it would be a really unique angle to take, based on what I've seen about you and have heard about you. So, before we get into all that, though, I love my listeners and viewers to be able to connect and relate to our guests, so tell us a little bit about you beyond the work.
Speaker 2:
Yes, amazing. So I have been an entrepreneur and a master coach now for the last four years or so, but before that I was a classroom teacher. I actually had a full career as an educator for 13 years, so I can really relate to all of the supposed to's how life should be, because the education system really reinforces following structures, following routines, you know, listening to your administrator, following procedures and the person that I was at the time, which was like a chameleon. I was really good at doing what I was told. I was really good at listening to people that weren't me.
Speaker 2:
I was really good at kind of flying under the radar, and so, as a teacher, that worked really really well until I got to a point where I burnt out from teaching, but I didn't realize it was because I was miserable. I didn't actually realize that there were other choices available to me that were more in alignment with who I am, and so my personal growth journey, which brought me to where I am now and serving other leaders is, was truly coming back home to me Nice, coming home to my self-leadership, right and authentically who I am, and so that's really what I love to talk about with other women, whether they're in corporate. I also work with teachers. I work with coaches and entrepreneurs now, but because it's really about embracing themselves as a self-led woman. And what does that?
Speaker 1:
even mean Right, because you know women, even at my age well, not even at, but women, especially at my age, I would even say 50 plus you'd be shocked because you're not there. You'd be shocked to hear how they, even at that age and that season of their career and life, they still don't know kind of you know how they truly want to lead, let alone self-lead. So that's what I find so fascinating. And where do you reside? Where are you?
Speaker 2:
hanging out. So I actually I lived internationally for 11 years and have been calling Toronto Canada home for at least the last six years. Oh, very nice, Very nice.
Speaker 1:
Awesome, awesome. Well, let's definitely dive into this then, because, again, I think it's really important. I love that whole thing you said about self-lead, and what are your observations out there when it comes to women in their leadership role, regardless if they're operating a small, small, small company or a very large one? What are you seeing that they're doing or not doing? That kind of tells you okay, wait a minute, you have to figure out yourself first before you can kind of lead other people.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. So what are they doing? What are they not doing? Like, listen, if this is you and you are somebody in that age range that you're mentioning, if this is yourself or you know, however you're showing up, this is what we've been conditioned to do. Right, this is what society has prescribed for us from a really young age. Right, it's do what you're told. Right, do what I say, not what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:
It's very much the system that reinforces external validation, external approval, following systems, following somebody else's guidance system, with at the expense of actually learning what your own is, what your own, your own guidance is, okay, right, your own leadership, your own integrity and authenticity and expression. And so we pick up these masks, right, we pick up like, well, this is how I'm supposed to be, this is what you know, my paradigm of a teacher is, this is what my paradigm of a corporate woman is, so this is how I'm going to act. And then we walk around with masked up, trying to fit into these roles that society has prescribed for us and, like me, sometimes getting to a point where we're miserable and we wonder, like, who the hell am I Right? Or we go down the path of doing everything we should and burn out Right Right. We're neglecting all of these little things along the way that we're actually pointers to there's something out of alignment here.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and is it that moment, you know, feeling out of alignment? And or what are women experiencing where they all of a sudden recognize that something's got to give? You know, like what have you found to be that tipping point?
Speaker 2:
so to speak. Yeah Well, I mean, a lot of us don't notice the little signs along the way, or we shove them under the rug and we keep going Right. So that's normally what happens. And there's something about the human condition that we wait until the breaking point for something to change. Right, because there's always a story, right, there's always like, well, if I stay, because the salary is this, or maybe if I do it this way or if I can just, and we negotiate with ourselves so to try to convince ourselves that we aren't quite so miserable, and we do that for long enough.
Speaker 2:
Most people come to me when they're burnt out, when they're like I just can't anymore, and they realize that there's actually been decades of people pleasing or perfectionism or like type A control that have just controlled their life. And then they get to a point they're like I just can't keep doing this anymore. And so there's lots and lots of signs along the way, both in the body, where we're exhausted, right, the body shows. Sometimes for me it was adrenal fatigue and weight gain and I was like you work out all of the time why is this happening? Oh, wow, mentally it's a lot of just like that mental chaos, like a part of me wants to stay in, a part of me wants to go, a part of me wants that and it just creates these internal worlds that are so messy and exhausting Emotionally. It's like sad, frustrated, angry and like quick to those experiences and and then it's just. It kind of comes down to this feeling of disconnection, of like I'm just so in the freaking hamster wheel of life. How do I even stop?
Speaker 1:
I found myself one day, in my own, you know, needing to hit bottom you know, the hamster wheel is a good illustration of it because I really felt like I couldn't get control of my breath. I really felt like I was just like I constantly like, and I just could not, you know, kind of control myself, and I'm not talking like for a moment, I'm talking for like months. It just felt like I was just constantly, you know, ramped up and just couldn't get myself calmed down. So if you were to, before we move forward to kind of you know, then, what they can kind of be doing once they hit the bottom, what is? You had mentioned that they just don't pay attention to the early signs. So what are some early signs that our viewers and listeners could grab a pen and journal and start scribbling down, but that they can start paying attention to?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and so if you haven't been listening to early warning signs like me too, like most people don't and we're really conditioned to avoiding those things, yeah, right, most people lead with avoiding the things. It's the glass of wine, or it's binging on Netflix, even you know, over over functioning, over gymming, like all of those avoidant signs, or like there's there's actually something else going on here, yeah, and so if this is true for everybody, like I really get this, and some of the signs to pay attention to is, first of all, like what we talked about is what's happening with the body, like where is your breath? Are you holding a lot of pain and tension? And sometimes that pain and tension doesn't have actually a medical like thing. Right, it's one of those like psychosomatic things, terrible sleep. Then there's like emotional signs and symptoms right, quick to reactivity, a lot of anxiety or depression or the fluctuation of both, and this is hyper vigilance of like always waiting for the next shoe to drop.
Speaker 1:
That was me, yeah, that and over gymming. That was me, yeah, waiting for the next shoe to drop.
Speaker 2:
And then there's this belief that goes along with it. That's like, well, if I just stay on top of things, then nothing bad will happen. Bad being, whatever we make that mean in our current circumstances, right. And then there's just the mental load, with the capacity that we actually have to hold everything being thrown at us is diminished because we're exhausted, we can't focus, we're reactive, and so those are the signs that I personally experienced. That and then a lot of people that are kind of like burnt out and just can't go on. It's like, well, mentioned to me overwhelmed is another massive one, yeah, whereas something isn't working here because we're in a constant state of overwhelm. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And do you find that it would be so helpful from the earliest stages like the women that are listening to this could stop, or I should say, should start right after this conversation and even like kind of I'm a journaler, so even like journal, even if it's a one-line bullet of like those emotions, those things that you mentioned, that are coming up for them, just so they are kind of it's at the top of their mind as opposed to just something that they're going to avoid.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I love that. Something really, really simple to grasp onto would just be a simple practice every day, three minutes. What do I feel and what do?
Speaker 1:
I need, what do I feel and what do I need?
Speaker 2:
And that and the thing with the what do I need? If it's a nap, if it's a hug, if it's a salad, whatever it is, you actually want to do it? Yeah Right. And so that's the thing is, we can be so disconnected again from our self leadership that the to-do list, the job, the boss, the people, the partner always gets us before we do. And one of the most effective things you can do is actually starting to check in and starting to meet your own needs. I love that Check in.
Speaker 1:
I love that. Do you think there's one or more reasons, especially where women are concerned, where we put other people first before we take care of ourselves or think about ourselves, or tap in, or what you said about checking in with ourselves? And or is it also that we doubt anything could be different? So that's where the self doubt comes into play.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, it's both. We've been conditioned from a very young age to be there for everybody else, and this is also our history for generations before this. This is being passed down, and so there is this conditioning of women having to be in certain roles and we take those on. Yet we have this more current paradigm about women can do it all, and so we're actually trying to juggle both, which is exhausting, and then we're masking up with efficiency and being bitches so that we can get it all done, and none of those things are actually who we are. Yeah, and so all of those things which we're trying to keep up with trying to catch up with I mean even this idea of women other women as competition.
Speaker 1:
Yes, definitely want to talk about that, yes.
Speaker 2:
Something that's been handed to us that we play into, right? You see little girls on the playground doing this, yes, who have become so ingrained to the stereotype that we inadvertently start acting it out, when actually our most natural instinct as women is to be in collaboration, to be connected. That is our natural essence, that is where we're most successful and most effective. Yeah, and so when we're not doing any of those things, don't like, that is like just the nesting field for some.
Speaker 1:
But at the same time that nesting field expands into the imposter syndrome we want to talk about. But it expands into them. Even even if they got control of a lot of those things and they didn't have, because I didn't have the upbringing of, I had to compete with women. Maybe that was also because I had six brothers and five sisters, so I didn't have that issue. But at the same time I definitely had that drive of competing with other women, of wanting to better everybody else. You know I didn't actually isolate men to women, but we'll talk women and at the same time what did occur was I started doubting myself. Even the more successful I got, I kept doubting myself that I was capable or deserving or valued. And so how did those two worlds kind of collide?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. So, first of all, doubt is normal, like everybody at any level of success I have ever met, doubts. Something I have seen greater doubt in people who are, I'll say, you know, living out of alignment, and what I mean by that is really not in the truth of who they are. There's some aspect of themselves that they don't know yet or that they're not choosing from because they're firmly in these other masks and rules, and so the more strongly we're in those other roles that actually aren't us, are unique and true essence, the easier it is to feel the magnitude of doubt. Anytime we do something stretching, that's one, but doubt, so doubt is part of our humanness, right. Doubt sums up anytime we want to do something stretchy, right? Whether it's start your own business, go into teaching, apply for a new job, you know, date the new partner, like.
Speaker 2:
Doubt always comes up regardless of who you are. It comes up as a protection. That's the highest intention of doubt. It's this little part of us that's like don't get too big, you might fail, or somebody's going to make fun of you or you risk humiliation. There's an intention for doubt where it says there's something scary about this. Make sure that you are aware of anything that could go wrong. The highest intention of doubt, which is actually quite positive, it's like, okay, you're trying to help me out here. However, when doubt comes up as an obstacle on our path, where I see people get really mixed up is when they believe the doubt.
Speaker 1:
Oh, there you have it yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yes, yes, it's actually not the doubt, but rather how we relate to the doubt I still experienced out. Anytime I have a new offer, start working with a new client, a new opportunity still happens. Yes, yes, I've come to this place where I can go. Okay, there's a part of me that feels scared right now. This is stretchy because this is new Right and I'm still going to do the damn thing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but at the same time, you had mentioned a few minutes ago that once they identified that there's this doubt which I love the fact that doubt's coming out of just pure fear and stretchy, as you say. At the same time, though, in between there, like you said, you went from doubt to I'm going to do it anyway, but in between there you must have done some degree of due diligence, self-assessment, to make sure that you're looking at all the risks, looking at all the reasons why it's coming up for you, correct?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there's a relating to the doubt that comes up so that I don't have to be in the doubt and believe the doubt and decide from the doubt. But there's almost like a little bit of space where I go. Okay, there is doubt here. I get. This doubt is here to help me because I'm doing something stretchy and I'm going to step away, so that I can kind of acknowledge that the doubt is here and still make empowered choices for myself.
Speaker 1:
Okay, so is there a tool or is there any little technique that you use with your clients to get them from that acknowledgement of the doubt to the point where they are kind of empowered now to make the right choices?
Speaker 2:
So this is where it's going to sound a little bit wild and crazy, and I promise it's not woo-woo. But really working with the subconscious part of the mind Is, rather than getting into the chaos and trying to argue with the doubt, that's what most people do, right?
Speaker 2:
Part of me is doubtful, but a part of me really wants to do this thing and a part of me says, like who the hell do you think you are? But another part of me like knows that I'd be really good at this, and that just happens in our head and gets so messy, right. What we actually want to do is give the doubt some airtime. We actually want to like hear it out, not so that we, you know, pitch a tent and live there, right, but so that we just give it some time to actually speak out its concerns. It's kind of like if you know any toddlers in your life and they need something and they like tug on your shirt, they just get louder and louder, right, until you hear them out and you give them what they need, right. And so the tool would be right from the doubt.
Speaker 2:
I'm scared because this is stretchy, because I don't think I'm going to be able to do this. I feel. I feel scared, I feel nervous, I feel apprehensive. I don't want to, you know, f this up. I'm worried about this. What this person's going to think of me, like actually write it all out, just to get it out Right and talk to the doubt.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I love that and that way the doubt has been expressed, it's been acknowledged, it's been seen, it's been heard. But then you as the grown woman, you as the self led, empowered human, actually gets to decide, right? Not this little scared part of you, right?
Speaker 1:
And some, but some of that could be deciding to live in that doubt Right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. If you go through that and still need support, that's where like friends come in, that's where coaches come in, that's where you know we tap into our close network of other women who support us and love us and can remind us who they f we are when we forget, right?
Speaker 1:
Well, and that's a great segue into and I want to come back to what we touched on earlier about women helping women and women, you know, approaching things collaboratively and not seeing it as competition, even in the same work environment, even with fellow female leaders who you know have the same role, or two entrepreneurs who network and are friends and compete in the same segment. So what do you see? What are your observations when it comes to the good and the bad of women really helping women?
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean, I run masterminds where it's truly women meeting up the minds to leverage and enhance their business, and the more I see women coming together as fellow change makers because, honestly, if we strip has all of the rules and responsibilities, we're all trying to do the same damn thing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
But for ourselves or for the world to make it a better place. We're all trying to do the same damn thing, and the more we are in our unique essence, right who we actually are, rather than trying to be somebody else, the more our own paths open up for us. And so I know that my path is not yours and yours is not mine, right, and Tanya and Samantha and Casey and Steph all have their own unique paths for them. We're not competitors, but we can do this together, so that we can each move forward in our own unique way and do the damn thing together, right.
Speaker 1:
But at the same time, all right, so do things together, but at the same time, you could look at it as two female entrepreneurs who are pitching the same client for the same work, or you could look at it as two female colleagues pitching for that. That's one promotion, that one opening, right? Ok, how do you support them in seeing it as still a collaboration, as opposed to something that needs to get ugly or competitive?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, and that's where I take a step back and I can see the bigger picture, right, because if you get that thing, if somebody else gets that same job or that role that I was going for, it's because it wasn't for me, he wasn't mine, and that door closing means that mine is coming, maybe tomorrow, maybe in three weeks, maybe in six months, but because of who I am and this little redirection, I'm going to get the door that's actually for me.
Speaker 1:
How do you help women get there? Because, especially from a corporate environment, they're not necessarily that evolved. But at the same time it doesn't even mean corporate. It could be just individuals, even at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years old. They're not that involved evolved, to kind of see that as well. You know what it just wasn't meant to be. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it just wasn't for me. And that's a process. That's a process that really we get to do. When we start to realize that by trying to control anything and everything has gotten me to a place that has been useful, right. And if I'm also feeling miserable, if I'm feeling unfulfilled, if something doesn't feel quite right, how much is that control really really serving me? Yeah, and so this isn't a black or white thing. This is mainly a lot of time in the gray. Well, we can start to see that actually life is happening for me, not to me, right, and that everything is here for my next evolution and growth, to help me be more of who I am.
Speaker 1:
When you said you didn't say letting go of control, but not needing to be in control or not in control, because I have to tell you I'm 61. And that is probably the number one transformative thing that I was so happy that I've let go is letting go of control. Oh, I mean, I was like for decades and yet when I did kind of just say you know what, I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I don't want to control everything and I can't, and recognizing that I can control the things in my little world and therefore work on that versus trying to control everything out of my control, how do you see that letting go really supporting women, embracing their leadership?
Speaker 2:
Yeah. And so this is where I really love to talk about certainty. Certainty, yeah, I mean, it's the opposite of doubt, but certainty is a radical level of confidence that is felt in the body, not because we're playing an outside in game. Right, the outside in game says when I have the promotion, when I have the six figures, when I have the relationship, when I have the corner office, then I'll feel happy, fulfilled, satisfied, pleasure, whatever the fuck it is. But the inside out game says that, regardless of what's happening outside of me, I get to feel happy, fulfilled, satisfied, pleasure, joy, free. Yeah, right, yeah. And certainty isn't, that isn't dependent on an outcome. Certainty is dependent on me that, regardless of what happens, I know I can figure it out, I know. I know. I know because this is in my body, like I trust me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It doesn't matter what's happening outside of myself and a woman who is certain she's unfuckable, Like you're a mess with her Right. Have you ever had a fight with a woman who was certain? Yeah.
Speaker 1:
No, it's so true, right. And what did you call it? You said radical.
Speaker 2:
What did I say? Radical confidence, radical confidence, yeah.
Speaker 1:
It is radical confidence.
Speaker 2:
It is radical, it is radical and the more that we can embody that and step into that, anything is possible.
Speaker 1:
Right? No, it's very true, you know. I do want to kind of just make sure you would hope women are still fuckable when they are that powerful.
Speaker 2:
I'm so glad you said that yeah.
Speaker 1:
Because you said they weren't but that you know. But I know what you meant. I knew what you meant. You can't mess with them when they're. I know what you meant, but I'll tell you. I paused for a second because I thought wait, I want to still have sex.
Speaker 2:
I don't want to have pleasure in sex for everybody. Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:
That's getting totally off, totally off. All right, I love that. I love that. Radical confidence equaling certainty that's awesome, okay, so what would one last piece of advice or tip or technique that you have that you could share with our viewers and listeners?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so the process would be doubts coming up. Acknowledge the story of the doubt. Just be like, yeah, okay, this is coming up. Name the feelings associated with it. Acknowledge how it's trying to help you.
Speaker 1:
You can get it.
Speaker 2:
I get that you're trying to help here If you can step into a level of forgiveness for yourself, forgive myself for doubting myself and then really name the truth. What is the truth? What is the truth what is? Is that, whatever happens, I can figure it out? Right? That truth is your pathway to radical certainty.
Speaker 1:
Beautiful, beautiful. I love it, love it, love it. This has been absolutely awesome. I can talk forever on it, but I can't. But thank you so much. I want to remind everyone please, please, please, check out Andrea and the work that she does. You can go to andriatessiacom to do that. You can follow her on Instagram it's at tessiaandria. And then also, I want you to all be sure to download her free training. Get out of your own way. You can do that at andriatessiacom Make-business-work. But at the same time, just go to andriatessiacom, because it's right there in front of you, andrea, thank you so much. This has been enlightening with radical confidence. I love, love, love that. Yes, yes, thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 1:
What a great conversation with Andrea Tessia. All about how to embrace your leadership style by shedding your self-doubt. But what I really loved came at the very, very, very end, when she started talking about radical confidence. What did you take away from the conversation? These are a few of my talking points that I just kind of lit up when she was discussing them. Those would be she was having a discussion around burnout and overwhelm and how to really assess or recognize early hopefully early when you are kind of really at a breaking point. So she has a technique that she uses with her clients and it's all about taking three minutes, simply three minutes, to ask yourself what do I feel and what do I need. That really allowing you to become self-aware, very intentional and focused on really where are you mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, so you can kind of continue moving forward and kind of take care of any self-doubt that might be coming up for you.
Speaker 1:
She also went on to talk about self-doubt, but more so doubt being natural, that we all feel doubt, no matter how successful, no matter how seasoned we are. And doubt is a good thing, you know. She went on to say that it's a mechanism for protection, for really protecting us around the choices that we make, but giving us that airtime, that space to really kind of think about and talk to the doubt and really understand why is this doubt coming up, what is it trying to tell me, what is it trying to teach me? And then, therefore, what are the choices that I need to make as a result? But she went on to provide a technique around writing to your doubt.
Speaker 1:
So literally writing and talking to your doubt, like why are you here? Why do you, you know, feel that it's important for you to show up right now. What are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to teach me? What should I walk away with, so forth, and so on. That way you're talking it to a place of understanding, to a place where then you can make the choices and the decisions that need to be made around it and let that doubt go.
Speaker 1:
But I love, love, love that she was really emphasizing that doubt is natural, so it becomes an issue with self-doubt. She went on to say when all of a sudden you're believing that doubt, when all of a sudden you decide to stay with that doubt, and that's where imposter syndrome and some other issues come up for women and men. But recognizing that self-doubt is natural and a natural part of being human, that just got to make me relax and allowed me to breathe. What did you walk away with? I'd love to know, I'd love to hear about it.
Speaker 1:
And so, if you are so inclined, what we'd love for you to do is go out to LinkedIn and leave me a comment, leave me a question, even leave something for Andrea, and I'll make sure that she gets it. But you can go to LinkedIn and follow me at BernadettePose, not only for this episode, but for all of our posts and episodes that are shared. We would love to hear your comments and or address your questions, and I am so pleased and honored that you are here with us for this episode and this conversation, and I'll look forward to having you for another episode. Take care, everyone. Bye.