Ep #323: What Does Your Brand Say About You? - With Gary Hernbroth

This episode of The ShiftShapers Podcast is called "What Does Your Brand Say About You?" with Gary Hernbroth, Founder and Chief Motivating Officer at Training for Winners. Today, Gary shares how to cultivate your own personal brand and the importance of authenticity.

He also discusses the top characteristics of a salesperson, such as listening and follow-through, and provides a real-life example of an insurance agent leveraging authenticity to create a lasting business partnership.

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:

• 01:54 What exactly is personal branding?
• 06:50 Personal brand = trust
• 08:34 Creating an authentic brand starts with internal reflection
• 12:19 Listening is the number 1 skill in sales
• 16:02 Creating sales with follow-through, loyalty, and authenticity

Quotes:

04:46 “The vibe that we give off, so to speak, that tell people that they either want to be engaged with us or they want to get involved in business with us or, in the case of the folks listening in today, somebody wants to buy from me. Or maybe they don’t.”

07:11 “There are certain things that you do or don’t do that are going to protect your brand and keep it strong—because it takes a long time to build up a brand and it takes seconds to shatter your brand.”

10:10 “I do not believe in the fake it til you make it crowd. I think that’s kind of a cute little phrase, it’s a bumper sticker, but I don’t really think it has any lasting value. It’s more like fake it until you’re found out.”

12:59 “Sometimes people, because someone doesn’t ask the question, they think you’re not thinking about that. Oh, customers are very much thinking about that.”

14:04 “Listening is traditionally the number 1 skill that buyers want in their salespeople. Somebody to hear about what my needs are.”

Transcript

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David 0:00

Whether you know it or not, you have a brand. What does it say about you, and what do you need to know to make it say the right things? We'll find out on this episode of Shift Shapers.

Announcer 0:13

Change either paralyzes or energizes. The choice is yours. You're listening to the Shift Shapers podcast. You're about to learn firsthand from businesses and entrepreneurs who have successfully shaped the shifts in their industries. Get ready to become the change you want to see. This episode is brought to you by Shift Shaper Strategies. In sales, if you confuse, you lose. Clarify your message so you win more clients, crush your sales goals, and build your practice. Learn more at ShiftShaperStrategies.com. And now, here's your host, Story Brand Certified Guide and Chief Transformation Strategist at Shift Shaper Strategies, David Saltzman.

David 1:04

On this episode of Shift Shapers, we're talking with Gary Hernbroth. Gary is Chief Motivating Officer at Training for Winners. One of the things that I get asked about a lot, I mean a lot, is the issue of branding. Not so much on the corporate side, but something that a lot of folks are talking about and very few people actually understand, which is called personal branding. And Gary is an expert in that and a few half dozen other things. But we thought we'd bring Gary on to talk about that and maybe help you level set and learn a little bit about how you can move forward with your personal branding and why it's important. So with that, welcome, Gary. Thank you, David. Thank you for having me on today's uh podcast. I'm excited. It's our pleasure. So let's level set for the audience. What is personal branding? How does it differ from corporate branding and why is it important? Okay, great questions, David.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Personal branding is your legacy. It's how the world views you, or as I like to say, it's the window into your working soul in terms of the world. It's not all that different in concept from corporate branding, and that's the rub. Many people don't really think they have a personal brand. Now, it's a term that's it's not necessarily a new term. It's been around uh, you know, in corporate vernacular, say, you know, I don't know, maybe the last 10 years or so, but I'm constantly amazed when I speak at conferences and seminars, how many people, although they may have heard the term, really don't understand what it means. And uh it's uh I I draw the parallel to corporate branding because it gives them something to you know consider, but I still get that, well, how does that relate to me? And it's really your own legacy and how the rest of us see you, which can affect a lot of things. It affects how people believe you. If you're a team leader or a manager of others, it affects how people choose to follow and and uh you know work for you, or maybe not. It can be very, very helpful, obviously, in sales, because there's a believability factor. So personal branding is huge. I guess I would say that the the naysayers out in the group might, you know, I've I've had on occasion a couple folks say, Well, isn't this kind of like profiling? And I look at that and I say, well, in the text of it being a dirty word, I suppose it could be because you are profiling. Oh, gee, that person's trustworthy. Oh, that person's always late. Oh, that person gets their work in on time. Oh, you know, they're a fast tracker. So in effect, I guess that's profiling, but not in the not in the dirty sense of the word they're looking for. And it's really bigger than that. So it's all about your personal legacy and how others view you.

David 3:53

So is it enough to be a subject matter expert if people are looking at your branding, or do you have to be some way evidence the fact that you're what I know what you call a believable expert? And what's the difference between those two things?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Well, the branding is going to affect your believability quotient with people. You know, it oftentimes, David, it's not a black and white type of hard and fast type thing where you can say, oh, this is my branding and whatever. It's it's kind of a lot of it's based on nuance and feel. I often take a look at sometimes I'll be in a golf tournament or something and I'll get paired with other people I don't know. And, you know, it doesn't take more than really a few seconds for some people, myself included, to kind of size the other person up and say, oh, you know, I'm going to enjoy spending the next four and a half hours with this person on the golf course. Or maybe, oh, this this might be a tough slog. And it's just those little nuance type of things that that the or the vibe that we give off, so to speak, uh, that tell people that they either want to be engaged with us or they want to get involved in business with us, or in the case of the folks listening in today, somebody wants to buy from me, or maybe they don't. It can really be a nuanced thing, and it's not it's not often a hard and fast rule.

David 5:05

So we hear an awful lot that you know that phrase, you are your brand. Yes. Is that true? What does it mean? And what doesn't it mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Well, you are your brand, but your brand is also you. Now, what does that mean, other than a bunch of gibberish? What it means is you you craft your brand. Well, first of all, I would I mentioned the naysayers earlier. And I what I usually say to those people is whether you like it or not, whether you embrace the concept or not, whether you even want one or not, you've got a brand. Now, they say, Well, how can that be? How is that so? I said, Well, if do you have a family get together? Yes. Are there certain siblings that you would like to sit next to at the Thanksgiving dinner table and certain siblings he wouldn't, or whatnot? And they say, Oh my gosh, it happens all the time. If I get stuck next to my one sister, she just goes on and on and on. I can't get a word and edge wise. If I sit next to this brother, he's so boring that he never brings anything up and I've got to do all the talking, and he's slopped. You know, so you're saying, well, there you go. Your siblings have a brand in your mind, whether they want one or not, or whether you want to do it. It's just that what how do I read your vibe, so to speak, and what characteristics do you have? What characteristics do you do? So I do a little exercise in my seminars, which helps people. I say, write down three adjectives that best describe you. And I'll tell you, David, that really throws some people for a lurch. They they really think about it, and some of them have a hard time describing themselves in terms of a brand when they really can't come up with three adjectives to describe themselves. Now, some people want me to have them put down 10. I'll say, no, no, no, let's keep it to three. This is this is only a seminar here, but you might have 10 or more. But some people really struggle with it. And it comes to the idea of, you know, what characteristics do I show other people and can I craft my brand? And and I talk a lot about, you know, you work hard to build a brand if you're aware of it, and you should also work twice as hard to protect that brand. Now, what do I mean by that? There are certain things that you do or don't do that are going to protect your brand and keep it strong. Because it takes a long time to build up a brand and it takes seconds to shatter your brand. And once your brand is shattered or it's lost in people's eyes, it's really tough to get it back.

David 7:29

Well, it's like trust. So I mean, is a brand equivalent to trust? It is.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

It is. Because again, as I mentioned back, you know, in the in the beginning moments, I mentioned, you know, a golf tournament, but let's make it a little more serious here for this group listening in today. You know, it's all about those first few minutes where you're engaged with somebody who you might be doing business with, you know, whether it's the you know, nobody's shaking hands anymore because of COVID, but you know, whether it's the eye contact, uh, maybe a sense of humor, maybe you try a joke right off the front, you know, to diffuse a little bit of the of the pressure of uh the relationship and someone doesn't care for the joke or they don't understand your sense of humor. And then, you know, how do you get that back? So you can also gauge, you know, there's studies out there that say anywhere between 11 and 15 seconds is the time it takes for someone to realize whether they're going to engage with you or want to engage with you, or they're gonna want to run away into the woods as fast as they can go.

David 8:27

And that's not a lot of time. No, it's it's really not. Let's take a half a step back. I want to go back to something you said a moment ago. Let's assume that I'm one of those people who can't really put three adjectives down on a page. Is a great way for me to start building my brand to spend some time thinking about the adjectives I'd like to be perceived as and then building out towards that. And if it is, how do I do that? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Well, that's that is really an internal look at yourself, if you will, which is which is tough for some people to do. I usually suggest that people ask their friends or their colleagues to describe them in three adjectives and don't be kind, don't hold back, okay? Just tell me what it is. In other words, tell me what you get when you when you get Gary. Tell me what I represent to you. And I might ask certain people that and and take, okay, okay, it was like a poll. All right, here's my top three answers. I don't know. But you also think about the comments that you've heard over the years. You know, maybe comments that your teachers gave you when they were giving you the uh, you know, the teacher conferences uh when you were younger. Sometimes those stick with us for our whole lives. Things that your uh your evaluations from your bosses and work have told you. You know, gee, you're a wonderful leader and you set a great example. However, sometimes you don't articulate well in a meeting or whatever. And you take those positive and negative comments and you reflect. Maybe it's something that your parents have told you, or your siblings, or your best friends, and maybe if it's even in a in a jocular manner, but they really mean truth, you know, it's it's it's said kind of uh in a jocular way, but they mean it to be true. I mean, authenticity, David, today is the thing. So you're looking for that authenticity in your brand. I do not believe in the fake it till you make it crowd. I think that's kind of a cute little phrase. It's a bumper sticker, but I don't really think it has any lasting value. It's more like fake it until you're found out, which I think is more the reality. You've got to be authentic. And if you're trying to be someone with your personal brand that you're really not, I guess I tell people this if you were that great of an actor or an actress, you'd be in Hollywood. So you may carry that through for an interview, you may carry it through for an initial business interaction, whatever, but in the longer term, people are going to find out, oh yes, that really is them. They are authentic. Or, nah, that was just my first impression. They're not really that at all.

Announcer 10:52

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David 11:52

Well, there's a great expression that they've said for years about uh folks who go to Washington, legislators who go to Washington, and that is that the only real characteristic you need is sincerity. And if you can fake that, you got it made. Right. Well So you don't want to be thought of like a politician for exactly that reason. So question for you, especially with salespeople. Yes. Do you find that folks oftentimes confuse branding with portfolio?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I haven't come across that too much. I when I'm working with salespeople, there's there's certain questions that I ask them because their customers aren't going to ask them out loud. And this is where sometimes people trip up about personal branding. They might say to me, Well, Gary, you know, I've never been asked these questions by anybody. So how do you know they care about them? And I say, really? I mean, do you really go up to people and say, can I trust you? Are you a believable expert? Do you know your stuff? How well do you know your stuff? Are you going to be there when I need you? I mean, those questions might come up down the road, but David, uh, I don't know about you, but I don't make a habit of walking up to people I hardly know and asking those questions right off the bat. So I think sometimes people, because someone doesn't ask the question, they think, well, you're not thinking about that. Oh, customers are very much thinking about that. And when they put uh when they do the mental math, I call it mental math, when they connect the dots of the mental math about all the characteristics that you might represent in your brand, you know, it does two and two equal four in their mind when they're connecting these dots, or does two and two come out to be five?

David 13:23

And part of it, I think, is, and I'm interested in your take about, you know, listen and silent are two words that have the same letters, which you and I both know. But I think a lot of sales folks sometimes don't. They they go in with a solution in mind, and so they don't listen. How, how key to enhancing your brand as somebody who's trustworthy and knowledgeable and thoughtful is the ability to go into an appointment and listen before you come out with solutions and talk.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

We don't have the time today to go into the hugeness, if I if I could call it that, of listening. I mean, it is probably, you know, studies have been done over the years, and if you pile them all up, if you want to, if you want to go through and do that research, I can save you a lot of time. Listening is traditionally the number one skill that buyers want in their salespeople. Somebody to hear about what my needs are. I don't need you to cram something down my throat. I don't want to be be the victim of a feature vomit. I don't want to hear how wonderful all your stuff is that you have to sell. I have my needs. It may not be what the the pure person before me that you saw or talked to has their needs. They have their needs, I have my needs. I'm a brand too. I'm a customer. As a customer, I have a brand. So a great ability of a salesperson is to recognize that people are different brands. You know, you can't say, well, they're all this way, they're all that way. And in doing that, the best way to find out about somebody and what they need is a very simple tool. It's called listening. You know, the old two years, one mouth kind of a thing. You know, use them in that ratio. You've heard that. The ability to listen, because that's how you can craft a response, and that's how you can kind of help somebody and say, I hear you, I hear you. So it sounds to me like you're most concerned with X, and our product, Y, will do a great job of fixing X for you, which is a much better approach. And now my brand is starting to settle in with that person of, okay, here's somebody who listens to my needs. They didn't come in like a windstorm and say, Oh, I'm selling today, X, Y, Z, A, B, C, D, E. I got a lot of great stuff to sell you. You gotta like some of it. What do you want? And I'm saying, no, this person took the time to find out about my brand, my needs, and and he or she listened. And you know as well as I do, you've had a million sales interactions yourself, that a lot of people are woefully short on the listening side. And it and it can kill their brand. I mean, it'll it'll kill their chances before their brand even gets up to bat.

David 15:58

That's absolutely true. So uh let's assume that in addition to listening, if you want to build what you want your brand to be perceived as, what are other things that you should be doing?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Great question, David. I mentioned before authenticity, because that's what a lot of people are looking for today, okay? Am I trustworthy and do I have a level of integrity, especially insurance? I've it's funny you mentioned listenability because I've got it right here, but I'm glad you brought it up first. How about follow-through? How you know, how about follow-through? The old the old saying is I don't need insurance until I do. I've got friends and family in the insurance business, and it always comes down to, you know, I'll ask them, how do you get some of your business? And what they've told me through the years, od nauseum, is, you know, Gary, I pick up a lot of business because other insurance people, other agents, other brokers, whatever, their follow-through was lousy. And frankly, they fumbled the ball and they came looking for someone who would actually follow through for them. David, I don't know about you, but you know, I don't get in my car every day thinking about my car insurance. But boy, I'll tell you what, if someone rear-ends me at a red light or scratches my car in a parking lot with their shopping cart, all of a sudden my insurance person has become the number one person in my life because I need them now. I need them now. Are they a believable expert? You know, are they are they selling me things that they themselves would want to buy? How believable are their stories? Do they know their stuff? The consistency, I think, is an important brand feature. And how about loyalty? I'll share a quick story with you, but a friend of mine and his wife were fans of this uh little uh restaurant up in northern Michigan. He's in the insurance business. And they would go there for you know special things, anniversaries, birthdays, whatever. And he's a wine connoisseur kind of person, so they like to do wine tasting. So he became a pretty good customer of the restaurant. So the owners recognized that. They would work their way around the tables and get to know their patrons, which is smart. That's that's a great brand characteristic. But they got to know that he was in the insurance business, and he didn't hard push that at all. He he wasn't peddling his goods at all. But they they sat him down once and said, Do you have a minute to talk after dinner? And he said, sure. And they said, Well, we see you in our restaurant a lot. You're an affable guy, you're a great customer, but more than that, your wife and and you are very enjoyable people to talk to, and you're forthright and honest, and we've had some laughs and all that. We're thinking of changing our insurance coverage, our insurance policy, our agent. He said, Okay, now he did not look to swoop into this business, but he said they said, you know, you're an actual patron of our restaurant. You've spent a good amount of money here over the last three, four years. And he found out from them, he said, Well, you know, does your agent come by? And he doesn't know, we never hear from our agent. And by the way, he's never come in here as a customer. And my friend was flabbergasted at that. He said, What? He said, No, he's never come in here to spend a dime. He doesn't bring his family in here to dine, he's never come in here for an anniversary, birthday, et cetera, nothing. He doesn't patronize our restaurant, and that's a really big deal to us. And my friend is ethical, he's friendly, he's knowledgeable, he's a believable expert. But that added feature about him being, you know, his brand was that he was also a loyal customer and he cared about them as people first and not just a customer. They brought all of their business to him, and it's been that way for the last 10 years. And he's continued to be a good customer. And the moral of that story is, you know, you also have to support your customers. And if they're in the kind of business where you can actually be a customer for them, boy, that says a lot about your brand when you'll spend money with them because they're spending money with you. And that's how he was able to get business away from the other. Frankly, the other agent fell asleep at the wheel. Now, interesting thing, David, once that other agent was told that his business was at risk and he might lose it with that restaurant, then he turned on the burners. Well, what would you like me to do? Would you would you like me to come by and what could I do? And they said, you know, it's too late to ask these questions. If we have to tell you what to ask us, it's too late. You should have done that already. You fell asleep at the wheel. So that's that's another element of branding where his branding was he was asleep at the wheel.

David 20:14

And in both cases, those guys both evidenced their brand. Exactly. Good and good and bad. We've got just about another minute left. So let's wrap up with a simple question that maybe has a long answer, but I need a short one, which is I'll bet you that those restaurant owners, I'll use your story and I'll take it forward a bit. I'll bet those restaurant owners also referred their new guy to a bunch of their friends. Is that a great measure of whether your branding is working the way you want it to?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

It's 110% a great measure. And I know I only have a minute. Let me get in a small little commercial here for their social selling too. Insurance brokers, insurance salespeople, any salespeople, you've got to look at how you are stacked up on the um online with maybe your LinkedIn profile and whatnot, because you can be a great person, but if you've got a junky, clunky, funky or no online presence, you know, people are going to check you out online. And so if they see something they like, they're going to say, okay, this person's sharp, they're on top of it. If they see a clunky LinkedIn profile or one that hasn't been updated in a while, or it's a bad photo picture. I mean, I again, we're not doing a big social selling here, David, but it is, I don't want to undersell this. This is an important component in terms of making sure that your social media is up to par with your brand and that it's as authentic as you are. So you can't be one way and then try to be somebody else online and in social media. That's got to be authentic too, because let's face it, everybody today is going to check you out. And that's going to either add to your brand or it's going to detract from your brand. So I'm a big fan of making sure that your personal branding is in order, both with you as a person out there doing business, you know, flesh and blood, but also you're online. And not a lot of people spend enough time on that.

David 22:02

And that's a great place to end our conversation today, but we hope you'll come back. Gary Hermbroth, Chief Motivating Officer at Training for Winners. Gary, thanks so much for sharing your expertise with our audience.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

David, it was my pleasure, and I I hope they use this information to uh great uh success. Thank you.

Announcer 22:19

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