Emma : 0:05 

Hi podcast fans, thanks for choosing ours. This is Coming Out Stories and I'm Emma Goswell, your host. This podcast is brought to you by what Goes On Media. Basically, we bring you real people and real stories from across the LGBTQ plus spectrum. Hey, and if you love what we do, please do tell your friends and shout about us on social media too. Now you can follow us on Facebook easy to find us there. On Instagram, we are at comingoutstoriespod Go find us. So shall we crack on with Series 6, episode 2? Now, this one is a little bit different to our usual episodes because it was actually recorded in front of a live audience Last summer. Yes, it really has taken me that long to get this out.

Emma : 0:52 

Coming Out Stories was invited to take part in the Crossed Wires Podcast Festival in Sheffield. It didn't escape my notice that we were scheduled to be on between the Naked Podcast yes, they were actually naked behind some well-placed pot plants and Katie Price. No pressure. Then I knew I had to find someone to tell their story who wasn't just able to physically be in Sheffield and be supremely confident. They had to have a bloody strong story to tell too. So that's where Patrick comes in Patrick Katana-Ets, to give him his full name, was born and raised in Barbados in the early 80s and lived there till he was 15, before moving to Cuba and then ending up in Manchester.

Emma : 1:35 

He's not just a character. He's lived a life with so many twists and turns it could be a blockbuster movie. Now, do be prepared for some adult themes and, as well as the laughs, some pretty tough conversations, because his story involves an abusive relationship, substance abuse, hiv and poor mental health. He was also, in his early 30s, diagnosed with a rare form of dementia and has gone on to campaign for more awareness for early onset dementia and better provision for lgbtq plus people with the condition. He also has one of the most shocking coming out tales I've ever heard. Uh, yeah, really, you won't believe the words that he chose to use to come out to his father. All that to come, but we began by talking about pronouns.

Patrick: 2:28 

They're not as straightforward and I was actually against pronouns for a period of time. I'm kind of an old school person but I do a lot of charity work, so I understand it more for individuals, for themselves and importance for them and also because, believe it or not, when you start going through it you kind of go, no, that's not me. And then you go, actually, maybe it is me, maybe I identify as that. So my pronouns are he, she and there's a reason for that.

Patrick: 2:53 

Okay, and you don't like they, but you know because Barbados is considered derogatory to call someone they, them, it's like they or them, and we consider it rude. So you know, in our culture it's just not. If you want to, then fine, I'll address you with that, but for myself I don't want to.

Emma : 3:08 

But the more I've done the podcast, the more I've realized that pronouns and the way that people identify, talk about themselves is such a personal thing and language is so sort of cultural, depending on where you are on the planet. Really so, and that's a really good example of that it is and it's just something that I learned from myself and others.

Patrick: 3:24 

It's just never fixed. I do a lot of work around ethnic minorities and then, the more you delve into that, you realize that cultural differences are important to pay attention to. So you learn the cultural aspect and then you learn how to address someone.

Emma : 3:36 

Yeah, and I think when we talk about your story, we're going to be talking about elements of sexuality, because you identify as being gay yeah but also elements of identity as well, and this is what's really interesting is that so many more people I'm speaking to have?

Emma : 3:50 

Well, we all have more than one coming out story, don't we Just loads? If you've been questioning your gender, In fact I've got somebody in the book who's in the book as a trans man, and then we had to ring the publishers as it was about to go to print.

Patrick: 4:05 

I now identify as non-binary. I identify as non-binary even though I was at a conference going nope, we don't want that here. And then about a week later I went.

Emma : 4:10 

Actually, I'm non-binary you can't see I'm a hypocrite okay, I contradict myself a lot. That's self-discovery, big mistakes okay, well, we'll come on to the sexuality stuff a little bit later, but um, let's go back to little patrick inados in the what are we talking? 1980s.

Patrick: 4:29 

I was born in 1983.

Emma : 4:31 

So what was going to school like in the late 80s, early 90s in Barbados?

Patrick: 4:36 

Horrific, why? But Barbados is a beautiful island. But at that time you have to understand that Barbados is very class-orientated, very racist, well divided by racial issues, statue-orientated as well. And I came from a very good family. So my father set up the first security company and I lived 90% of black people, he was white and my mom's Trinidadian and there he was as a personal bodyguard for the prime ministers and stuff Worked for the CIA and Interpol, Well-to-do. We never wanted to screw around with them. And there was this little princess running around school, you know, and everyone was mortified. I grew up in a school where my parents realized that I couldn't read or write because they weren't even teaching me. Parents didn't want their kids to sit next to me, so I was literally abandoned every day at school.

Emma : 5:23 

And you were told that by the other kids at school. I can't play with you because I remember it, I remember it.

Patrick: 5:29 

It was just parents didn't want their kids next to me. They thought I was infectious.

Emma : 5:33 

And was it because you were exhibiting what was seen as stereotypically I was a little girl?

Patrick: 5:37 

feminine behaviour yeah, I was just nothing you could say to me. There's a picture of me in a crib, on my back wearing all pink legs crossed, with a bottle near, and I went, could you not tell? I mean, I didn't dress up myself and I was just like a right little princess and I loved it. My best image is my brother running around going he-man and there was me going she-ra, and my father could not say a word but he blamed my mother a lot, a lot of abuse from my father, not physically but just mentally. But I understood and I respected my father in the end for certain things, um, for what he had to go through as a parent to try to protect my own it's interesting, isn't it?

Emma : 6:14 

because we talk about differences culturally, but most people that I speak to, and most men that I speak to, even um, in the UK and in America, had similar things. It's just this whole binary thing of boys do this, girls do this seems to be so entrenched in human society. It is entrenched.

Patrick: 6:32 

And cultural differences are hard, especially when you are in an environment. Well, for instance, I remember my father screaming at me so my father's Dutch. And every year for the Dutch Queen's birthday there's a battleship that comes in and only diplomats or people like my parents were invited prime ministers, diplomats, etc. And this time it was held at a diplomat's house. So we went to it, so prime ministers flew in, etc. Etc. And I remember leaving and my dad was screaming at me in the car the entire time. I had no idea why. I was just used to it by then.

Patrick: 7:06 

And years later my mom told me the story that at that event I was sitting down minding my own business on a chair, because I always went with my parents everywhere. And one of the ambassadors came up to my father didn't know who it was and my father was allowed to carry a firearm on him because he was a cop he always has it and a guy came up to my dad, not knowing who was my father, and said see that kid over there. I heard he's gay. And you know, if I had a gay child I'd just kill it and send it right to my father.

Emma : 7:36 

He said to your father if I had a gay child. I would kill them, You'd kill it. Kill it it.

Patrick: 7:39 

Kill it, you'll kill it, kill it, it Kill it. Terrific. And my dad picked him up by the neck, pulled out his gun, put it to his head in front of everybody and said if you ever speak about my kid like that, I'll fucking blow your brains out. And my mom went Martin time to go. And then I understood that my father could not express emotions well, but he took it out on me in that sense. But I then realised how hard it was for him every single day not to just be taken respectfully as an individual for the work that he's doing, but downsized for the fact that he had a gauged son and he loved me, you know. And so here you are with diplomats changing the world, blah, blah, blah. And that's how they think of you. Like nothing changed. You would think that this is you know what. You think that your, your prejudice, would disappear when you're in that sort of environment or that stature.

Emma : 8:27 

No, nothing still everywhere isn't exactly. And how old were you at this stage then?

Patrick: 8:33 

um seven, eight years old or something so you don't really know your sexuality, then you are being told oh, I knew, trust me but you're being told you're gay by adults because of the way I heard the word gay, but I always knew that I liked my. I never liked men my age. I liked my brother's friends and I was always. I said to my mom at five and went I'm supposed to be a girl, not a boy. She just looked at me and went what do you mean? I'm supposed to be a girl. This is not my body. I hated, I hated, hated my body at the time, but I came, came out at 15.

Emma : 9:03 

But I suppose you didn't really even understand words like transgender or non-binary when you were five years old when I moved to England.

Patrick: 9:11 

I came to England to have a sex change because you could have it on NHS.

Emma : 9:15 

And that's the reason you came here.

Patrick: 9:16 

Yeah, it's one of the reasons.

Emma : 9:17 

So for a long time you felt that you were going to do it.

Patrick: 9:19 

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah totally, I hated having a penis. I love it now, but it's just annoying.

Emma : 9:26 

So what changed? You came here to do that and then obviously you changed your mind.

Patrick: 9:29 

The operations were too evasive. So if I had an operation I wouldn't be able to have an orgasm. And I'm very sexual and I just thought what's the point? What's the point of being a woman and never being able to experience that part again? And I met another trans woman who was about the same age. She was stunning, but she couldn't have an orgasm. She was very aggressive and I thought no, I have enough anger issues.

Emma : 9:50 

I don't know if that's the case anymore, is it no?

Patrick: 9:52 

no, no, now it's fine no, now it's fine, but I still sometimes think, and I have so much utmost respect. But I started working for heaven and Richard Branson used to own heaven at that time and and I was asked to host as a hostess. So I was very dodginess as a kid. So to me it was like my Cinderella story I get to be a girl. I always wanted to be for those 12 hours and then go back to being a boy.

Emma : 10:12 

So you were doing drag.

Patrick: 10:14 

Yeah, more or less drag.

Emma : 10:15 

So drag queen was the natural career to go into? Yeah, but it was female impersonator.

Patrick: 10:26 

There was a difference between drag female impersonators yeah, okay, but you didn't then do that when you weren't working at heaven or whatever. No, I, I did some things. I just done glass commercials, I did music videos and then I was asked to be on RuPaul's Drag Race, but I just never went ahead with it. And then only just recently I started doing for my work, because I have early onset dementia. That part of my female part of my brain started coming out more and more and more, and the more they dove deep was the fact that my core memories are of me being brought up by my mother. So everything I always wanted to be the girl like my mom. You know my posture, my presentation, everything. But now I do it as a representation for the trans and non-binary community. So I present all my conferences as a woman.

Emma : 11:00 

Yeah, so today you are male presenting. Yeah, then other times you could have worn a nice floaty dress number, couldn't you?

Patrick: 11:08 

that would be alright, do you want to deal with me on the train? No, but it's good to have that balance and I realise that that's where my power can come from. It gave a lot of wind when I started doing my writing around HIV and I realised the power of representation. So if I could do that for myself and feel like I'm getting that part of myself out, then I feel comfortable.

Emma : 11:27 

But I'll also give empowerment for other individuals because some people who are non-binary are very sort of down the middle. They are. They say that they're genderless. They're not male, they're not female, they're sort of somewhere in the middle.

Patrick: 11:39 

I choose, whereas you would say I'm a Gemini, I split between everything. Well, you are definitely two personalities, yeah, so I know very little about star signs, but you, I'm a Gemini, I switch between everything.

Emma : 11:45 

Well, you are definitely a Gemini. You are definitely a Gemini, I know very little about star signs, but you're definitely a Gemini, definitely a Gemini. So you have days where you are feeling a lot more masculine or days where you want to explore your femininity.

Patrick: 11:52 

In the bedroom, more masculine, yeah.

Emma : 11:54 

That's as far as it goes. Patrick, I hate talking about sex.

Patrick: 12:02 

It's more the fact that I just in my brain, I'm always feminine, like my nurture aspects, my empathy, that part of me, is always there. My dad did everything to make me a guy. Instead, he just made me a tomb raider.

Emma : 12:15 

You know what was he doing, was he?

Patrick: 12:16 

oh my god so I had to learn how to shoot a gun at the age of five. I had to choose a weapon and master it. My brother chose nunchucks because he liked Bruce Lee. I chose knives and when my dad asked me why, I went because they're every household item and they're quiet, and I think he went this one's going to turn into a psychopath. But I was like a little tomb raider. I was Laura Croft and I went yeah, so he just turned me into a badass girl. But that's when my dad. That's his idea of what sons should be.

Emma : 12:46 

And was there any other rows about how you were dressing or?

Patrick: 12:50 

Kind of he understands it. I mean, they always knew. But now he always said to me when you do it, you do it perfectly. I'm a perfectionist. My dad bought me a Christian Lacroix dress for one of my awards and I was like I cried Wow, yeah, I was just like. And he bought me a dress, he bought me a purse, an orange purse, because he's Dutch, because orange is the national color. Yeah, and I got orange heels I wore for my awards.

Patrick: 13:12 

So he's really come round, he's come round a lot but with his dementia it goes in and out sometimes. But at least he said I think the funniest thing he said to me was you're a very beautiful woman, you know. And I went, I know, daddy. He said, but where do you get your tits from? I went Hong Kong and he just laughed. But that's the sense of humour and he knew that I did everything elegantly and he just wanted to make sure I did it properly.

Patrick: 13:35 

Like I met the Queen of Spain, like just two months ago, and I thought to myself, despite anybody, anyone says to me, I got to that point where I get to be with these individuals who respected me as my, because you still want validation from your family. I think everyone wants validation. But there's a point of 41 years old my friend said to me since you do so much, you struggle so much on your own, why care about what anyone says? And I take that to heart. I mean to pack a suitcase of all your female clothes, to go in front of stage of a thousand people and a live audience takes a lot of balls. I did it the first time in Helsinki, I did in Krakow and I'm now I'm doing everywhere I go and more and more people understand that and I feel like I'm being authentic for myself because I'm never going to transition, but I can do it to help other people. That's the only part.

Emma : 14:24 

And just by living your true self you're doing that, aren't?

Patrick: 14:26 

you yeah.

Emma : 14:27 

So let's talk about the sexuality part. Was there ever a point, when you were still in Barbados, that you explored the gay side, or was it just? I mean, it is still technically illegal to be gay in Barbados, it is, but we have gay pride and stuff like that.

Patrick: 14:40 

I mean everyone knows this the further you go out from a city centre, the worse it gets. People's mindsets are different. You know it was really difficult, really hard. I didn't have friends until I was 16 years old. I had my own security crowd whenever I went out. It was isolating for me, but also I realised my father was trying to protect me from just people.

Emma : 14:58 

So you never had a boyfriend when you were in Barbados then.

Patrick: 15:02 

Yeah, foreigners, my best partners was when they flew in and flew out.

Emma : 15:06 

Yeah, I would never date a local. So you were exploring your sexuality then, oh yeah.

Patrick: 15:09 

I explored it at 13. And then I told my dad at 15.

Emma : 15:13 

Okay, well, let's talk about that. This is a coming out podcast, so we haven't actually got to the coming out bit yet, have we? So this is all going on. You're getting told that you're gay from the age of seven or eight probably earlier Earlier but you're starting to have sex at quite a young age by the sounds of it, and then you come out at 15.

Patrick: 15:30 

Yeah, my mother said to me, says oh, you know, you should never lie about things. And I said to mom, there's moments in your life where you have to. And she went nope, you should never lie, not at all. I went mom, there are some situations in life where you have to lie. Nope, always be honest. And I just snapped. I was a very vindictive person so I just went okay, fine, I'll be honest. And my dad came upstairs and he went there's naked men on my computer, explain. And I and I went I suck dick, daddy. He went what you didn't?

Emma : 15:57 

You did not say that to your own father. I was grinding myself with a towel.

Patrick: 16:00 

I looked him in the eyes and went I suck dick, daddy. He went what I went? I have sex with men. And he went ugh. And he went straight downstairs. And my mother came upstairs and went God, and she went. What the hell did you say? And I went. I was honest. She went Italo, italo's my other name. So she went, patrick, why on earth do you say that for? And I went. You said to be honest. And I went. She went well, not that honest. And I went nope, you said there's no situation you should not be honest about.

Emma : 16:31 

And I went. So I was honest. I think I've ever heard anyone be so blunt and sexual to their own father. Most people struggle just to say mum, dad, I'm gay but to say I suck dick we.

Patrick: 16:41 

We come from a family where my father's Dutch. They're very open-minded and I had to sit there and listen to my dad talk to my brother every day on how to kiss a woman, how to have sex with a woman, and all of this. He was a very proud parent. Your family sound unusual but it's just a Dutch thing, I mean? No, it was, but my father had.

Emma : 17:01 

British parents don't sit around and talk about that, am I right?

Patrick: 17:05 

My father and his. It was just very open. My grandmother allowed my father to bring women back home and all this. He was a right womaniser. So he was very proud to teach my brother all these tricks and things and all this sort of stuff on how to make love to a woman. And I was like, oh my god, this is disgusting. So for me it was just like, yeah, no brainer.

Emma : 17:27 

And how did he react then after that initial shock?

Patrick: 17:29 

I think things got worse afterwards. Of course, I think it just it laid in that it was harder, like his worst nightmare came true. But he, they always knew. And that's the point where my mom went just pick a course anywhere in the world, I'll pay for it, just go and that's why you got sent to Cuba then.

Patrick: 17:45 

I know I got scholarship for psychology at age of 15. I was the youngest person in the Caribbean. I was a smart little cookie, um, and I went to Cuba last of the year. Came back I said to my mom I can't be a psychologist. She went, why not? And I went. I don't even know myself why on earth I'm gonna sit down there try to sort out somebody else's brain when I don't even understand how I function. And so I came back and then I got accepted into cordon bleu for cooking. But I went to england because my brother was coming to england. Mom says just easier to send both of you there. So I went to England and I think my proudest moment was when someone says where are you from? I said Barbados and I'm gay and she was like, oh cool, and that was it. I was like the happiest person on earth, just to be accepted for that so you left and then you said you got an older brother.

Emma : 18:25 

Did you have to come out to him? Was he aware of these conversations?

Patrick: 18:28 

going on. He's like oh yeah, no, he was fine. My brother's a strong individual. He had to beat a few people up, but I was very passive at that time and I think I got tortured a lot by teachers. Teachers did some horrific things to me as a kid. Every Friday, one of the teachers played a game with us and the game was to run after me. What? Yeah, believe it or not, this was a history teacher, and every week I came back with more and more scratches and bruises and my mom realized that the game was about attacking me and I thought it was normal, and it went on for months and how old were you then?

Emma : 19:02 

about nine and you can't even report that, can you?

Patrick: 19:06 

I didn't realize what was happening.

Emma : 19:07 

You're getting bullied by the kids and the teachers he sat there on the tree just watched.

Patrick: 19:11 

My mom knew that my subconscious was very deep, that the minute that reality kicked in, that what people were doing to me, I'd be very aggressive. I would have strangled him myself. So, bit by bit, she was like it's better to send that atomic bomb to another country. And it did. It affected me. Why did people treat me like that? I was a happy little kid, like just happy. I had a lot of anger towards people, towards my island in general, and anyone says anything about you being gay. I was the first person to get pumped in your face. You know all those skills my father taught me helped, but you know I was very defensive and did it help coming to this country or it did?

Patrick: 19:47 

they didn't have to deal with it. No, it did. It did, because I came in the era where the gay community really supported each other. I met so many people in the nightclubs who were, as you said, like parents kicked them out, all this sort of stuff, and we all supported each other and the more that you were out there, the more people took care of you. You were never homeless like. Someone always made sure that you were had a bed to sleep on or a sofa, like no matter what it was, and they were so happy just to be with each other. I love that part. For me, it was a great moment to be in England and sit there and go. People loved you and took care of you.

Emma : 20:22 

And it's probably no accident that you've ended up living in the city centre, quite near Canal Street, because I've spoken to so many people who flock to Manchester or LGBT centres because, particularly with your upbringing and your background, you want to be around supportive people, don't you? You don't want to go and live in the sticks somewhere and risk.

Patrick: 20:41 

Well, it was the LGBT Foundation that actually helped me get an apartment. So I had a partner who was very, very abusive. As a result, I had a nervous breakdown and I was homeless. I had to learn how to walk, talk and write again and, because the foundation was the only thing that took care of me, they wrote a letter to the city council and all my work around HIV helped me get an apartment close to the city centre because I had no family in the UK.

Patrick: 21:05 

So as a result of that I ended up very close to the village and I was really blessed in that sense so you came to the UK seeking solace and thinking it would be this great utopia.

Speaker 4: 21:13 

But it sounds like you had a tough time. Well, a you got.

Emma : 21:17 

HIV. Yeah B, you met an abusive partner. It wasn't all bed of roses, no it wasn't.

Patrick: 21:22 

And people ask sometimes oh, how do you get yourself in that situation? I think sometimes people do get themselves in situations and I think sometimes the universe puts you in those situations. So you grow up and I grew up. It taught me how to protect other people, taught me a lot about myself and also how to help other people see problems before they get into it.

Emma : 21:42 

I know it's been difficult for you and I don't know if you want to talk about this or not, but I know this is something that comes up again and again when I talk to people in our community and if you look at the statistics, the amount of people in our community that turn to drink and drugs because of all their trauma that they've experienced in the past is quite scary. And that was the case for you, wasn't?

Patrick: 22:01 

it. I'm sober three months, you know.

Emma : 22:04 

Sober for three months. I mean, that's good.

Patrick: 22:06 

It is that deserves a clap.

Emma : 22:07 

Everyone doesn't it? Yes, come on down everyone.

Patrick: 22:10 

I have early onset dementia and in order to cope I took certain substances in order to manage. I said to my mom like what on earth I have to go through? Like it's hard. You know, there's a lot of isolation, there's a lot of loneliness and if there's not a lot of good mental health support around you, I say to people I'll do what I need to do to survive. You know, covid was horrific. I didn't see my family for four years. The foundation closed down. I've my support worker couldn't see me, my psychologist couldn't. It was just everything that I did to keep myself afloat disappeared. A lot of people in aa all turned back to substances. Nearly every single one people were sober for seven years went back to what's this?

Emma : 22:46 

the support out there for someone in your position that really needed it.

Patrick: 22:50 

So basically, at the time when I got diagnosed with early onset dementia, there was none, you know. I went to a support group and I would come home and I felt suicidal. I couldn't explain it. When I became, when I had HIV, I did. I had a column. I was very well known with my work and every person that wrote and asked me a question I wrote an article about you would cry and laugh at the same time of reading my articles. But it was cathartic for me to get that out. I didn't have that with dementia. So when I came home I had to really analyze what was wrong with me and I realized I was 30 years old, 31, sitting in a room with people who had their partners of 25 years, their kids, and they all had a chance to have a family.

Speaker 4: 23:31 

And.

Patrick: 23:31 

I had nothing, there was no prospect, and it's very lonely. It was. The gay scene is a very lonely place. I always said the gay scene is one of the loneliest things on the planet. And there I was in my prime, trying to remember how to function, how to speak, how to walk, talk, remember my past and, at the same time, live right now with all the problems of PTSD and all that. And so I realized that there was no support group because everyone was heterosexual. So if you have support groups for people who are HIV positive and all for cancer, you needed something else for yourself, and I started the campaign for support groups for LGBTQ plus people with dementia.

Emma : 24:10 

I think that's just a huge testament to your strength, though, that you managed to do that with everything that you were going through. You lose it sometimes.

Patrick: 24:16 

Yeah, yeah last year I really lost every ounce of my given. I think a friend asked me to do an interview and I almost threw up, and either of throwing up was because I had nothing left. You can give and give to a community like I could do this and then come home and nothing's changed in my life. Until those changes are there for yourself, you feel better and some things changed. I don't know what it is. There for yourself, you feel better and some things changed. I don't know what it is. I am very spiritual. I sense things, hear things, but I felt a change and I got a bit of support.

Patrick: 24:43 

One of my students I lectured at Manchester University. She always said to me oh, I became a dimensionist because of you. People say many things to me so it went over my head. But until I actually sat down and met her, it was my lecture that gave, got her chance to change her mind and she became a dimensioner. She's now one of my close friends. I wrote in a page in a research in a book and her master's is my page that she has to study and it kind of got to me. I went oh, my god, I actually did make an impact. You know like, who knew that like nurses now have to read my work in order to get their masters? And she's my friend. She always says to me I love you so much but you go through so much on your own. And she said I learn every day from speaking to you, so getting that support, now I feel okay, I feel better in myself to know that I have someone who gets it.

Emma : 25:28 

And I bet you'll have helped people with the support group as well, because there will be other people who are LGBTQ plus who have dementia.

Patrick: 25:34 

Exactly and this is the reason why I do my work. It's like around ethnic minorities, any minorities and I use myself as a representation and I always say to God people mention the word God but I always say, well, why would God give you all these things? And people use religion as ammunition, you know, to destroy you. At times it's punishment. God gave you HIV. God gave you HIV. God gave you dementia.

Patrick: 25:56 

I went, but God gave me a superpower. I became more intelligent with my dementia no lie, really intelligent with my dementia because all my senses increased more and the brain. The more your brain degenerates, other aspects of you increase and for me it was my empathy aspect and my understanding and my foresight. It really I feel like it made me a superpower, but it took so much other aspects away from me and I just wanted others to get that. You know I don't mind the pain and hurt, just ones that you and you and you don't have to go through what I went through because you won't survive it. You don't need to go what I went through. It always takes one person to bravely go ahead and fight everyone else to make it easier for everyone else.

Emma : 26:34 

I feel like you've been through so much and I probably could talk to you for the rest of the evening, but we haven't got that time, I'm afraid. But one question that I like to usually end the podcast with is advice for others, but I feel like your journey is so unique. We do need the book of Patrick, but would you have any advice for anyone who maybe is that five-year-old that's getting bullied at school, no matter where they are on the planet? You know that. The five-year-old that's getting bullied at school no matter where they are on the planet, the five-year-old that is confused about their sexuality or their gender identity and just feels like they're the only one, because a lot of us have been there.

Patrick: 27:07 

I know it's hard. Today's generation has a lot more access to knowledge than we did and I don't think you're ever that alone. But individually, each people feel internalized that they are. I would advise them to seek a little bit of assistance with people, but choose your friends wisely. Speak to your family. You know, and I know, parents are not the easiest, but at the same time it's frightening for them. I'll say this to you there's no rule book on how to take care of a child who's gay. There's none for my parents. They're terrified.

Patrick: 27:35 

My mom was a nurse. My dad was a cop. He never wanted me to be abused. I got abused. My mom never wanted me to get HIV. I got HIV. How do you protect a child in an environment that you have nothing about? It's but it's beautiful if you can do that journey a bit earlier. As my mom said to me, you would have been perfectly fine if no one intervened with you. If no one intervened with you and pushed you to all these little things you didn't want to do, you've been fine. You'd be. You would have coped a lot easier as a child. But you were pushed to do this because your dad wanted you to push to do that because it was society told you want to told you what to do. So don't think you're so alone, but speak to your family, and there are so poor organizations around there there are.

Emma : 28:14 

Thank goodness, things have changed and learned to fight. I always say learn to fight well, I wanted to maybe open up to any questions. If anyone had any questions for either me or patrick, I've got some questions always.

Speaker 4: 28:28 

Patrick, can I? How is it coming to this country and meeting other gay men and talking about your experience compared to theirs? What does it feel like to realise, or at what point did you realise, how difficult your childhood was compared to potentially somebody living in this country?

Patrick: 28:47 

They have the privilege of. I mean, don't get me wrong depending on the rural areas in which you live, it's hard, I understand, for some people like my friend lived in the valleys in Wales it might as well just be the same thing in Barbados, but for a lot of people they have a lot more privilege in that sense you have organizations that are out there. We had nothing. I can't ever say that each person's journey is better than another, but for me it was just in that time and in that era there was no information. We're in a generation where I remember going into brixton walking on pride when it was free. You know, we marched for our rights. I remember those days of doing it. I didn't know what it was about. He said, oh, we're marching because we don't have rights, and I went okay, I'll join. And those were the days that we did fight for it.

Patrick: 29:30 

Now it's just a festival and I think for a lot of people that we have far more luxury now and we complain. But you shouldn't. You have to understand that. You have to start dig deep for yourself. The only thing I want people to understand is you really truly have to go in yourself to understand who you are as an individual and face those fears and face those voices and come out, and that's the only part where I think it will help an individual to understand themselves more. Each person, no matter where they are, their lives and their stories are so hard For them individually in their head, it's the hardest thing. You can have 10 charities, they won't get it, they won't understand it. It's inside here and it takes someone to get into their mind to help them understand their thoughts.

Emma : 30:11 

Last question on the front row.

Patrick: 30:13 

Hi, patrick. Hi, how did you get to your diagnosis of early onset dementia? What was the story around that? By chance, 250,000 people are misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and anxiety and depression. And I had voices as a result of my condition, but they did a scan on my brain because I was just paralysed. I was paraplegic, basically, and just by chance, by luck, they actually had a brain scan and that's how they turned around and said oh my God, you have more brain wastage than anyone we've ever seen. If they never did that, then I think I would have just been on medications my entire life. It was just by luck.

Emma : 30:51 

And how does it affect you on a day-to-day basis?

Patrick: 30:53 

Really hard now, like I've had it for 10 years. I'm highly functional, but there's moments where I have a carer, like if I travel I have to travel with a friend and stuff. I don't remember people as much as it is. It's more the behaviour and personality that changes. Like if I get tired, like I can't move, I notice things are slipping and that's the hardest part about it Memory is starting to go. My mom said to me last year she went I can see that your condition is now starting to affect you, because they didn't know whether it was trauma or my condition but now they can tell the difference between it. It's getting harder.

Patrick: 31:25 

I always say to people you're so lucky, you know you get to have a life and live a life and be with a partner. I don't get to have a partner for the simple fact that no one wants to be around someone who has dementia. It's a really traumatising thing. It's sad. It is sad, don't get me wrong, but there's much more beauty around it. I now find a self-discovery for myself and I enjoy that part.

Emma : 31:45 

One question that Patrick wanted everyone to ask was are you single, Patrick?

Patrick: 31:51 

That was a joke.

Emma : 31:56 

You are looking for love. Who isn't?

Patrick: 31:59 

But at the same time I won't settle for anything less than what I deserve.

Emma : 32:02 

Quite right, well said.

Patrick: 32:04 

I'm a complicated individual and I love it.

Emma : 32:08 

Please give it up for Patrick.

Patrick: 32:09 

Thank you very much.

Emma : 32:12 

The incredible Patrick there. He deserved all the applause. He got that day. A huge thank you to him because, let's face it, it's hard enough telling your coming out story to one person, but when you have to do it in front of a whole room of people staring at you, yeah, that's next level. Thanks also to the Crosswires Festival. We love being there. Oh, and that voice you heard towards the end the first question. That was Kat from the Naked podcast, one of the organisers.

Emma : 32:40 

Listen, if you want to find out more about the group that Patrick set up to help LGBTQ plus people who have dementia. It's called Bring Dementia Out. It's run by the Alzheimer's Society and they help people in our community, particularly those who live in Brighton or Manchester. But listen, there's loads of online resources as well, and you can go and find them at alzheimersorguk. Right, you're probably thinking what do we have in store? Next episode? Now, as I said at the start of the series, it's more important than ever to let trans people talk and tell their stories. 2025 has not been kind to our trans and non-binary siblings. Hard-fought rights and freedoms for people have been reversed both here in the UK and, of course, across the pond in America. So next episode you'll hear from Christina who, after a lifetime of battling her feelings, came out age 32. And she told me she finally won acceptance from her family and it felt great.

Christina: 33:41 

The other day I was there playing with the dogs at my parents' house and my dad said, oh, are you excited? To the dogs, like, oh, are you excited to see your big sister? And like my heart melted at that. You know being affirmed and you know being supported. And I think they

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