18. President Of The National Association Of Funeral Directors (NAFD) Aims To Improve The Nation’s Relationship With Death: John Adams

President of the National Association of Funeral Directors (NAFD) John Adams lost his Mum Maria at the age of 12. John tells us how his bereavement in early life is the driving force behind everything he does today, personally and professionally. This  includes the campaign for adding content on death, dying and bereavement to the national curriculum.
 
NAFD - www.nafd.org.uk
Child Bereavement UK - www.childbereavementuk.org
Project Eileen - www.projecteileen.co.uk

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Email – Liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk
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Transcript

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Hi, I'm Andy Eeley, a Senior Funeral Director for G Seller Independent Funeral Directors. And we've been serving bereaved families since 1910. I'm sure you're all well aware there's lots of different myths, taboos and misconceptions around what happens behind the scenes within the funeral profession. So we decided to put together this series of podcasts to answer those questions and hopefully dispel those myths. So please do like, share and subscribe and send those questions, send them to liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk and we will do our absolute best to answer them for you. It genuinely is Our Family Caring For Your Family. Welcome to the latest episode of Lifting The Lid. Today I have the current president of the National Association of Funeral Directors, which we abbreviate to NAFD with me. So welcome. John Adams. How are you? Yes, thank you. How are you? Yeah, not too bad, thank you. Good to meet you. So, John, it's not the first time I've met you I remember as quite a newbie, I guess, into the funeral profession, I took an exam and you were the invigilator on it and you came along and you tapped on the table like that and you just put your thumbs up like you've got this. I think that kind of resonated with me. So thank you for that. You're welcome. It's great to be here today. Thanks for having me on here. Thank you. So, John, your journey. Tell us, how did you become, firstly into the funeral profession and then obviously into your current role? Yeah, it's been quite an interesting journey, life. I grew up around the industry, family service in Bridgnorth Shopshire. I'm fourth generation to be doing this, and like Joseph, I was on weekends, in the evenings, I was there in the workshop, in the mortuary, possibly a little bit too young in the mortuary. That's another story and just very much part of my life growing up. My plan was to leave school at 16 and go straight into the business. But I decided after a year, I was too young to be in that environment, so I decided to join the Royal Navy. All right. And I had eight years in the Royal Navy. Had a very interesting time there, always with the intention to come back. But then I came back in 2012 and it's been ten years, actually, back with Perryand Philips, and it's been fantastic, a fantastic time. And I feel very much in the right place in my life. Yeah. Feel very honoured to do what I do. When I left the Navy, the military is all about education and development, self development, working with a team. It's about how I sort of transferred those skills into the funeral profession. And I carried on my qualifications straight away in Liverpool with my tutor, David Barrington, who's a good friend, who I work with now at the executive level at NAFD and done my diplomas. And naturally, when I completed those I wanted to do more so I became a tutor absolutely. Which is fantastic. I got to learn a lot and meet more people. And then following that, I got invited onto National Executive Committee. And when I got invited onto that NAFD, I wasn't quite sure what it was. Okay? But again, it was to be part of the steering group for the industry to move us forward. So before you carry on, let's talk about the NAFD. Steering group. What is it? Just for those watching, what is the National Association of Funeral Directors? I know it's a governing body, but talk us through it a little bit. So it's been established, established in 1905 by a gentleman called Henry Sherry, who is based in London. And I've done a lot of reflecting in my time as president about what is the NAFD? What does it stand for? What is its purpose and what's its future? What's its reason? Why? And firstly the NAFD is a full representation of the whole industry and for me that's really important. You've got the largest corporate companies in the country in there to the smallest independents so it's a true reflection of the whole industry. So there might be some people that you can't connect with because you're different but actually that's even more a reason to be part of NAFD for me. So I'm from a small independent and I'm on the Executive Committee with CEO's of funeral partners and co-op and it's about working together for the best interest of the industry. Absolutely. So obviously there's elements of government legislation, there's a platform to connect, and if you have local issues in your community, it's about how you solve those issues working together. And my years been based about being together, and being together is how you move forward in the most positive way. I guess, as well. That sort of resonates with the Royal Navy. That's exactly, team, isn't it? Teamworks, yeah. Absolutely. So I imagine you would have learned a tremendous amount in the Navy about teamwork getting everyone together for a common goal. Yeah. Again, it's about people, about connection. And I always think when things are going well, sailing through the Med is easy. But actually, when you're in a difficult position and when there's a problem, that's when you see the true colours of a team. And it's about how you get that team really strong so you can respond to any issue. Absolutely brilliant problem solving. Yeah, let's face it, we have them every now and again. That's life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it truly is I'm currently doing the next diploma that was very much part of that. What to do if goes wrong? Yeah, let's just say I've gone somewhat over my word count. How did you become President? So when I joined the exec committee, I had twelve months there, and then I was asked to become president of the association, again, which is a huge honour. I was probably only 32 at the time. 31. And then you go through sort of a chain of office then. So you go in as second vice president, vice president, and then go through as president. I had two years as vice president due to COVID, which actually, in hindsight was just more time to prepare for the role. And as the twelve months is approaching the end now of this role, it's been fantastic. It's been such a huge honour. Relentless. It's nonstop, but it's fantastic. So you're a family man as well. I mean, how do you manage that? You've got a family business, you've got your family, you're president of the NAFD. That must be a tremendous pull on your time. Yeah, it is. It's challenging, but that's part of life. Again, it's balancing. And I've got two young boys, a third child on the way, but my wife. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. More chaos. But my family, my sister, my dad and all my family, and my wife especially, they know why I'm doing it. When I went into this role, I was very clear about what's the reason why I'm doing this? What do I want to achieve and who am I doing this for? And that was really important to me. This isn't about me, this is about the industry, how I can help the industry and society and breed people. And so my personal goal is about how I can create positive environments and help society. And the wider that reach goes, the better. I'm not sure how far it can go, but it's been fantastic to do that. And my family fully understands and they fully support me and they believe in me, which is fantastic. Brilliant. So I'm going to touch on something in a few moments about how what, because you've actually got some really good foresight with bereavement care in schools, which we'll touch on in a moment. I was just wondering the highs and lows of being the President, I mean, it must be quite intense and quite involved. It must have an impact on you. Yeah, the intensity is high. But then again, how I operate, if I've got a meeting or a talk to do in a certain part of the country with my family again, so I'll usually travel to that location, give a talk, meet the members, engage, connect, learn and also talk as well with them. And then after the meeting, I'll drive home.

So for 2 hours at 11: 8:42

00pm or at midnight. And that's again, it's about my reason why again and my family are obviously my priority, but the role obviously is so important to me as well. So it's about just pushing through; so I could stay over and have a nice breakfast. But actually it's about the job. You must have met a tremendous amount of skilled professionals. It must be pretty rewarding to know that it's something that you're kind of leading to a degree. It's incredible. And actually what I've learned. I've gone all over the UK, Northern Ireland, Scotland, down to the south coast of England, I'm meeting members from all over the UK. And what I'm really interested in is because all these areas I go to, are having the same issues. And again, what I want us to do as we move forward now, our new CEO as well, which he's as passionate as I am, it's about how we really connect, it connects up all these areas together and that's how you become even stronger as well. Absolutely. Totally agree. You seem incredibly passionate, John. Have you suffered a loss yourself? Is there something that drives this? So, yeah, with the bereavement awareness within schools, which again we'll come on to, a lot of that has come from the loss of my mother. Her name is Maria, and still is when I was twelve years of age. And I think that experience I went through. It has shaped me. It has shaped me and I think it's an example that any dark moment in someone's life, it's how you flip it over and you turn it into light and that's what I use my Mum for, she's my fuel and fire. And everything I do, how I serve families, how I want to be at home and with the NAFD and again with the education within schools, it's how we empower society and community and give education. And I really believe the outcome can be so positive. Thank you. Life after the presidency, what are we thinking? What's going to happen there? Is this back focus on family, the family business? Well, as I say, I'm still fully engaged in my family service. Third child on the way. I said to someone recently. It'd be a nice distraction having a third child. They were like, John don't say that! So sorry. But I've recently been appointed as Funeral Industry Advisor for Child Bereavement UK. Okay, so the petition, which has just finished now, we got the response in Parliament and the work will carry on. So that's very much a marathon, not a sprint, so there's a lot of work to do. The NAFD want me to stay fully engaged with that and to support me with that. The new President coming through wants me to stay there and push that through. So it's an ongoing mission, really. Oh, that's brilliant. So let's talk about this. So obviously, driven by Maria, by bereavement death information onto the national curriculum, to schools, something you're very passionate about and at the forefront of driving, we have a petition, I've signed said petition. I think it's a good thing I'm getting updates from the government. So, I mean, absolutely brilliant. Talk us through it. So the petition then is to add content on death, dying and bereavement into the national curriculum. It's something that I've been interested in for about five or six years with my role as President. It provided me a platform to really speak about it, sort of give me a more powerful voice and the petition was an opportunity to give people a tool to talk about their loss and get behind it and empower the public. And we needed 10,000 signatures to get through Parliament. We had just under 12,000. So that's been a great success and been really fascinating and quite overwhelming to see the response we've had from that. So that's really good. And the has government come back to say there's going to be a public consultation which will take place this year. So the preparation is started already about how we feed into that. A lot of charities like Child Bereavement UK, Project Eileen, lots of organisations behind me now who want to support this and will feed into that consultation. So how this will work, then? It's going to teach children about the emotions and feelings that we go through when we lose somebody. So every 22 minutes in the UK, a child will lose a parent in the UK, that doesn't include uncles, aunties, siblings, grandparents and even pets. So it's about conversations age appropriate and it's going to help that child that loses a loved one in a classroom in the UK. But as important, it will also help the classroom, their friends, to understand what that person is going through. So there's compassion and then empathy. Absolutely. Which is so important, because, again, we spoke before we started this about disconnect. Now, in society, it's about connection. And again, this will help support teachers and actually provide them more positive environment to learn in. And then the outcome, as I've said before, will have a real positive effect on society, a kinder society, which I think we're all responsible for in trying to do, again, giving these tools to young people that will see them through to later life as well. So one of the pushbacks I've had by one of the MPs was, well, why don't parents teach this rather than schools? Okay, yeah, I agree, parents teaching, it would be better or another option, but actually, a lot of adults can't discuss this stuff. No, it's it's difficult. Yeah, a lot of adults will cross the road rather than having to see someone they know who's gone through a bereavement or loss. So it's about how we have to start at the source and actually, children deal with death. It's so black and white for children. You'll see it in what you do, I see it in what I do. And with education and with clarity, things are quite straightforward and simple. So it's about how we give age appropriate sessions to youngsters and we improve our nation's relationship with death. And actually, the result of that is a better way of living and life for us all. This is sort of part and parcel of this podcast, really, trying to dispel those myths, because no one really knows, because it's not taught. Education. Yeah. I've got to come back to Mum, to Maria. So you were quite young when she passed. I was 12 12 okay, support at school, so this is driven, this petition is driven from your experience. So I take it you didn't have support at school? So within my immediate family, I was very lucky. My dad's obviously in the industry. He was very open and honest with me about what's going to happen to my Mum. John, your Mum's going to die. Make sure you speak to her. Make sure you get all the things you want to talk to her about. Make sure you tell how much you love her. So I was very lucky in that sense, but in the school elements, my dad wrote to the head of the school to tell them that my sister and I had suffered the loss of my mum. And about four or five months later, my dad got a phone call from the head of the year to say, John's performance in class has dropped. Is everything okay at home? Okay? Yeah was that read? Obviously not. Well, the thing is, you put in the drawer, and we'll sort out tomorrow that one. It wasn't acknowledged. And I'm not bitter. I'm not a victim at all. Because I feel so lucky to have my Mum for twelve years. But actually I know what can be done. I know how special that time could be. Still sad. But actually working in a closer community altogether it could be really impactful powerful time for a family or for a young person as we see with funerals as well we see it. The funeral industry is very reactive. When someone comes through our door, the house is already on fire. It's about how we take control there and that's what really has empowered me to do this, because how I've empowered young people to deal with their loss. And I give examples recently to somebody else about coming to see their loved one youngsters and how they've helped me take fingerprints for their Mum, helped you do it, and even help me close the coffin. All these small things can be as impactful and more powerful or as impactful as the actual funeral service. So it's about these connection points from death until the day of the funeral and even afterwards. Because after someone dies, they still remain part of you. So that's really important to remember as well. Absolutely. I like how you're talking about reconnecting and you mentioned earlier, and we mentioned before this, about the disconnect COVID has had a substantial impact with direct funeral services. That disconnect, that moving away from, I think you've described it in a previous podcast, a platform to move forward with grief. And that is the purpose of a funeral. I think that's really important, and I think you're doing a tremendous job at driving that. Again, I think if we can acknowledge the emotions and feelings, we will go through when we lose somebody, actually, which I didn't realise at the time of starting this. It will highlight the importance of why they have a funeral service. And that sounds so obvious, but actually, society and the public, there is a rise in direct cremation and unattended direct cremation. So no contact with your loved one. Convenience, stress free, taking the grief out of a funeral? You can't do that, if you love somebody, you can't just suddenly just pop your fingers, make it all go away. You have to go through this, you have to have tears, it really important and that's how you move forward. So I always think when someone's arranging a direct cremation is, that's fine, I'm not against it, I just have my concerns about it. And as long as people are aware, the education of what it actually means. But the key thing is where's someone going to be in five years time with their grief. So with an unattended direct cremation, things that I'll suggest to your family or offer them, do you want to come and help load your mum's coffin onto the hearse or ambulance on the morning of the funeral of the direct cremation? You can't go into the chapel, which obviously, which is the rules at the crematorium. But how do we create those connection points again? Do you still want to see your mum and dad in the chapel of rest here before the day before the direct cremation takes place? Because the connection is so important? Yeah. No, I completely agree. As a family business, your bereavement support, so you've lost your mum, you've had tremendous support from your father, which has then driven this passion in your life. You're now heading up the business or you're there at the forefront of the business, support that you give to your colleagues. So it's important for the schools and starting at the beginning, but what about as colleagues that are working with you? Yeah, that's a good question. I think back to when we've done hard things, funeral services, for traumatic deaths. I think the key thing is the check in. And again, it's about being humane. That kindness within our sort of company to each other, that genuine care for each other. Because I think the industry is all about caring for the community, but care actually starts within the building. And that's if you get it right within the building, that care for each other, the genuine care for each other in the building, that will flow outwards. And your clients will receive a better level of care as well. Absolutely, I completely agree. The direct cremations, does that affect your colleagues? Because from our perspective, again, this disconnect and reconnect, even for the funeral professionals, we find it difficult to carry out a direct cremation or an unattended cremation, because it doesn't feel like we serve the family properly. Although we do it right, from our perspective, it's still dignified, it's still as it should be, but without that funeral service, it just doesn't... And with that, I think at the start of COVID that fear kicked in about we had to start saying no to things in a funeral service, which none of us are used to, but actually, within ten days I quickly realised that we can still have connection even with six people at the crematorium. And there's lots of things that we did and many additional directors did in having that innovation. How to evolve and adapt in that environment, to still create connection, such as. A guard of honour, for example. We used to have those along the streets. Yeah, exactly. That there is a great example of connection. So it's so important. And I think, as I say, I'm not against direct cremation, as long as the communities and the public are fully aware of the implications. Five years later, where you're going to be in yourself, in your heart, five years down the line. I'm going to bring us back onto the schools, the bereavement care, because I think that's tremendously important. I think that beginning piece is where it needs to begin. How does it look? How is it going to be taught? I'm going to bombard you with questions now. Please do. Who's going to be teaching? Is this something that the school will be delivering themselves? Will it be third party experts coming into the school to perhaps do training sessions? Or will they be training teachers for this? I guess familiarity for the pupils now. For the students. Firstly, then, there are some schools in the UK already doing what I'm proposing. Okay, yeah. The vast majority, though, have nothing in place. The schools that have something in place, they have lesson plans and sessions already done by charities like Child Bereavement UK, Project Eileen, stuff's already done. I don't want to reinvent the wheel and stop doing lessons and create lessons. It's already done. It's working. Okay. I see. My responsibility, is trying to connect it all up to getting these sessions and lesson plans into schools all over the UK. We shouldn't have to rely on proactive individuals within schools to ensure this education is being taught. There should be a net across the whole thing and to ensure that everybody's given the opportunity to learn about such important issues. Absolutely. So what does it look like, then? I was asked about this recently and I gave an example quickly. So, for example, The Lion King. Okay. Okay. You could explain the point in Lion King and the point why I say that because children are already seeing death all the time. Disney, their books, their stories, every day during COVID-19, seeing numbers on the screen. The Queen's funeral, you could not avoid. You can't avoid that. It's everywhere around you. So people saying, well, you're exposing children to unnecessary sadness, they're already seeing it. All we're going to be doing is providing clarity. So, Lion King, for example, the point where his dad dies. Okay, press pause there. How do we think Simba is feeling right now? He's sad, he's angry, he feels guilty, he's fearful, he's devastated, he runs away. Actually, what we can do then is explore and expand on those emotions. What does guilt actually mean? Why is he guilty? Why is he fearful? So we go through all these emotions and actually unpick them, what they all mean. And actually if we carry on pressing play. Later on, he learns actually how to take his dad with him again. And that's what I do with the loss of my mum, she's still my fire and fuel and like all bereavement and losses once someone dies, it's physically they go, but actually emotionally, that love remains always. Yes. So there's an example for you straight away, it's a character in a cartoon film, so it's not a direct person, it's a character. And they know the story. They know the stories. So it's already there. It's just expanding on the things that they already know. Absolutely. Brilliant example. When you think about films at Disney Pixar, I'm thinking of the film Up there's loss in there. Most of them, it's loss or it's about trauma. The vast majority of the kids, children's films are about that. Separation. Yeah. It's about just steering it right. Is this something that's going to be reviewed? Is it an annual lesson? Is it something that would be ongoing? I know you're not reinventing the wheel. How I see it will be is to teach it alongside sex education. Okay. So we learn about how we brought into the world. Okay. Let's learn about how we leave the world. Good. And that the age levels would be my proposal is the same. So, latter end of primary school and then the start of secondary school. That's where I'd like to see it, in the PHSE as a mandatory session taught. Brilliant. That is brilliant. Can we get involved? Yeah. I mean, I know I've signed said petition and I know I believe it was my colleagues came back from one of your NAFD sessions and sort of distributed, sign this petition, sign this petition. Thank you. But hopefully this is something that our viewers, our listeners can be involved with as well. Where do they go? What do they do? So the next stage now, let's say, is the public consultation, which has been carried out by the Department of Education. We haven't got a date yet when that's going to be out and started, so we're just waiting for that. Prior to that so we have started preparation now. I was involved as a co-author, as a research paper carried out by Bristol University, which again, will feed into that. Other experts to feed into the consultation again when it's open. So it's just preparing. So at the NAFD conference in a few weeks time, I'll be presenting the next steps, which will be really clear. And again, if you can feed into that consultation, if you can speak to your viewers, if they can engage with their MPs, if they can feed into that consultation when it's open, that'll be huge. Let's just basically, we need to show and provide the information of why and how it's going to help. So it's something we can drive as a community. Yeah. Make this happen. Brilliant, John. Absolutely brilliant. Look, great to meet you. Such passion. I genuinely do hope that we can help and get more people on the petition and more people on board, but I think what you're doing is really, really important. It comes from the absolute right place as well. Thanks so much, indeed. Great to talk to you. Thank you for your time. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. Please do, like share, subscribe, send any questions. If you've got any questions for John, just send them into us. liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk and we'll see you next time.