25. What Is Embalming? Part Two: The Modern Process Not The Ancient Egypt Version

Following on from our first embalming episode with Rhonda's back in 2022, Andy interviews his co-host Joe on the taboo subject of embalming. Joe discusses peoples reactions in the pub, his favourite TV programme to have on in the background, and the modern process of arterial embalming which is the complicated and intricate process of maintaining dignity and slowing down the course of nature. Joe discusses how privileged he feels to be able to embalm, and answers whether or not we embalm if the person isn't being visited in the Chapel of Rest. 

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Transcript

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Hi, I'm Andy Eeley, Senior Funeral Director for G Seller Independent Funeral Directors. And we've been serving bereaved families since 1910. I'm sure you're all well aware there's lots of different myths, taboos and misconceptions around what happens behind the scenes within the funeral profession. So we decided to put together this series of podcasts to answer those questions and hopefully dispel those myths. So please do, like share and subscribe and send those questions, send them to liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk and we will do our absolute best to answer them for you. It genuinely is Our Family Caring For Your Family. Welcome to a further episode around embalming. So we've spoken to Rhonda previously, one of my colleagues, and it just so happens that my co-host Joe, is also an embalmer. So, yeah, I figured, let's pitch some questions to Joe and see how we go. And how are you doing, Joe? Yes, not too bad. Thank you very much. Good. Thank you for inviting me back again. I've not invited you back, you're my co-host you're here all the time. Yeah, that's it, contractually obliged. Joe, Embalming. How did you get into the role of being an embalmer? Yeah, okay, so I've mentioned on previous podcasts before that my dad was an embalmer, so he worked for a funeral company back in Peterborough. So I guess it sort of stems back from there. When I used to work with my dad, just sort of cleaning cars and making up coffins and doing different things, I always remember it was a chap called Pete Rymes was the embalmer at that company. This was back when I was 16 or so, sometime again. And I remember walking through sort of like the embalming room at that point and seeing him doing it and then being interested in it from there, and so asking my dad more questions about it as to what it sort of entailed. And then, of course, life took me a different direction and ended up coming back to it here with G Seller. What interested you about it? It was that process, I guess, from seeing someone how they were before, someone's embalmed. So when you pass away, you lose colour of your skin, your eyes made water, mostly, so you dehydrate, so its seeing what someone looked like from before embalming. But then once someone had been embalmed, so once that process had taken place, of seeing what they looked like afterwards. And because I didn't know any of the science or the reasoning behind it, as far as I was concerned, I went in there when you started, and then I saw what happened at the end, but I didn't understand what had happened in the middle. Something you felt you wanted to understand. So it's something I felt that scientifically, I needed to know what had happened to make that change from A to B. And so he talked me through it a little bit. As I say, from there, other things happened. Starting working for G Seller and I was taught much more in depth eventually as to what that was. I mean I was taught by Rhonda, Rhonda is a qualified embalmer. I will say, I'm not a qualified embalmer, Rhonda taught me how to embalm. I dare say there's not many things necessarily that I haven't come up against but if I do, Rhonda is still there of course, to give us a hand. Are you considering coming qualified? It's something I guess that's quite intense, isn't it? Quite intense, quite in depth, possibly at some point, yeah. But it's a big time commitment now when I don't have much time so. How long have you been embalming for? I think I've probably been, I've been at Sellers now for 15 years and I think I've probably been embalming, I think I was here for about three years before they sort of taught us how to do that. We had an embalmer previous who left and then I sort of expressed an interest in it and so they trained me up or Rhonda trained me up from there so yeah, good old time now, probably about twelve years I've been able to yeah, it's quite a long time. So, Joe. I mean, I'm not an embalmer, funeral director. I can prepare people. I can lay people to rest, do hair and makeup and so on. But the embalming is not something that I fully understand. So just talk me through it a little bit. Just give me a bit of an insight. So what would be your interpretation of it? Well, I guess this is that historical thing in it, let's face it, as soon as you think you think of mummies, you think of Ancient Egypt I mean before coming into the funeral profession it was yeah, that would be my take on things. I had no understanding whatsoever, certainly the process and certainly the impact on the family seeing the difference between being involved and not being involved, the impact on the person doing embalming as well. So, yeah, definitely ancient Egypt. And we're not all wrapped up in It's moved forward a bit from canopic jars. Modern arterial embalming I think Rhonda said previously, though, it's nothing along those sort of lines. It's a treatment of the introduction of preservative. It's going to sound very textbook, but this is very textbook. And you've probably heard this term as well, having taken your exam, the introduction of preservative fluid is through the arterial system and the treatment of thoracic and abdominal cavities. So I think my description is it slows down the course of nature, much more simple. Whatever, but essentially that's what it is. So you raise an artery, preservative fluid is put through flow through that arterial system and via the chemicals also that are used through that, it returns palour to skin, restores fluid to you, essentially. So it just makes you look a lot better for when people come to see you. It's sort of done via I mean, it's quite a scientific process embalming there are things that you can see on YouTube and various programmes that suggest that embalming is simply rubbing a chemical on skin and whatever else. And I promise you, that isn't actually what embalming is at all. As I said, you're treating fluids through an arterial system. It's all like a circuit. So if you think of your body as sort of like circuitry that's all connected up, so your brain connected through to your heart and arteries through to your legs or however else, as long as that circuit is all connected, then actually arterial embalming is fine and can be done fairly easy, if that circuitry isn't connected. So, say if someone's had a medical examination and then for whatever reason, internal organs have been examined, then it's quite possible that that circuitry is no longer connected properly as it would be without that. And so simply raising an artery and then injecting into it won't be enough because, of course, there's a leakage somewhere. That circuit has been broken somewhere. And so you're trying to get fluid through pressure into the various parts of your body, through to your fingers somewhere. There's going to be a leak inside you. And so in the case where someone's had a medical examination, we then tend to have to find arteries separately. So it may be that you're finding internal, external sort of arteries in your carotid artery, and so you have to inject into those separately to get fluid into your eyes or your ears or your mouth. So it can be quite complicated and it can be very intricate, and it can take quite some time to find arteries to be able to do that because quite often they're very small and arteries are incredibly elastic. And so if they have been cut, then it can be quite difficult to find them and then inject into them. So typically without those complexities there how long does it take to imbalance someone? Just a bit of a ballpark I guess yeah so if you're talking someone who hasn't had a medical examination at all then hour and half, a couple of hours okay somewhere around there if they have depend on the extent of the medical examination then it can be quite some time. It's taken me four or five hours to really do sometimes although I dare say shorter as well someone like Rhonda probably could do something Yeah okay, experience yeah I mean do we only embalm people when they come to visit in the chapel if a family wants to come and visit? No, I mean we always ask the question so we always have permission. That's important, isn't it? We also have to always ask permission from the family to see if we can embalm but in any instance it's something I always recommend, embalming regardless to whether everyone comes to see someone or not it's about maintaining or returning dignity to someone embalming as much as anything else. They will look better for the day of their funeral having been embalmed which may sound like a silly thing but it's not at all. We look after people and want to care for people so it's important how people look. Yeah, absolutely. I totally understand that. It's difficult because embalming is a bit of, it can be a bit of a taboo subject, can't it? It is a very taboo subject. It's quite difficult to ask the question sometimes, I find, during the arrangement have we got permission? Can we do that? And as I said, my description is much less descriptive than yours. It slows down the course of nature, just to ensure your loved one is at their absolute best. If a family asked me, do you know what, I want to know why it entails? That's when I would come and get yourself and Rhonda. But from your perspective, you mentioned that you've potentially spent about 5 hours or so embalming. That must be quite lonely. I mean from an emotional standpoint there's a lot around this from an emotional concept, how does it feel to embalm someone? Is it lonely? Give us a bit of an insight on you. I'm going to be honest with you, when I first started embalming in there yeah, it can be quite lonely because you're just sitting in a quiet room, sound of ventilation going on the background and you're sort of trying to complete something. Take a long time. In the end, I'm going to be honest with you, I ended up putting episodes of Top Gear on the background. I used to listen to it in the background as I used to embalm and when I exhausted that as an idea, I'd listen to a podcast or have something on that just or the radio or something in the background while I did it. But yeah, the emotional impact to it isn't really a factor for me at the time you embalm you've got someone that starts off looking like A and by the end of things they look like B and B is always a far better representation of the person than how they started. There's a certain level of satisfaction there? It is incredibly satisfying. It's about the most rewarding thing I think actually there's many aspects of this role that are rewarding but it is about the most rewarding thing because when someone comes out of the chapel of rest and they sit down with you and they said yeah, they look exactly how I remember them that is a fantastic feel to know that you've done that for them. Yeah, brilliant. That's really good. So from your perspective, you're down the pub and it always comes up, doesn't it? You're having a conversation Now you talk my language. Someone says to you so what's your job? And you happen to mention I'm an embalmer. What sort of reaction do you get to that? You'll know, to a certain extent, it'll be similar to a funeral director. It's true. Come on, specifically embalmer. Yeah. So actually when you say first thing is you say you're a funeral director, you get one reaction from that. If from there they haven't just run a lot or they've turned away or they've just downed their drink, like I've just gone nip to the bar or nip to the toilet, then if they're still around and you go into a bit more detail and you say that you're enbalmer, then yeah, one or two ways. People either flee or people you start asking you more in depth questions about it, which can be tricky. Can I say what sort of questions? Yeah, it's exactly what you've been asking me, really? What does it entail? What does it do? What about the smells? That's the question that just popped into my head. Well there's a reality that we're not made of fairy dust, I'm afraid. Sometimes it can be a little bit I don't want to use the word gory, sometimes it can be a little bit messy, sometimes there are unfortunate smells that are associated with it, but it's fine, it's a part of that role and we deal with it, it's not a problem. We have ventilation and everything, don't we? There's ventilation in there, yeah, absolutely. A little trick that anybody who works in anything that has smells associate will tell you. I use an awful lot of Vicks Vapour Rub up my nose. Really? I'll put patches on the tip of my nose or something if I know that there's going to be so I've never used that because it makes me eyes run, so I can't see what you're doing. I use Vick's Vapour Rub every single day in my life on my nose, just because I really love the smell of it. Know what to get you for Secret Santa next year, then? Thanks very much. Vick's Vapour Rub. Not really that secret, then, is it? Any more insights, Joe? Anything else you want to tell us about embalming? I can't really necessarily think of anything there. Have you ever embalmed someone that perhaps, you know? You know what because I don't come from around this area not necessarily people I know there are people that I've looked after funerals for, and then perhaps the wife also has passed away and so then, yes, I've embalmed them. And that has its own sort of emotional attachment, because, of course, you do get to know people quite well when you arrange a funeral, don't you? That's a part of what we do. You build a rapport with someone. And there have been some people that I've sort of embalmed and I thought, yeah, that is really quite sad in that respect. But again, the reward that comes from that is actually far greater than that sort of emotional response, I feel, because I've seen some people in some pretty awful states, and again, when you get to the end result of that having embalmed someone, it's really satisfying, really rewarding. Good. I'll take it the families thank you for this. Yeah. And I'll bet there is a certain amount of satisfaction there. Yeah, absolutely. You'll know, from when you leave a funeral, someone thanks you for something. The embalmer tends to be hidden behind the scenes, don't they? It's not someone that's on the forefront. As it will be quite a thankless role. Yeah. I think that's a shame, really, because it's a skilled, highly appreciated job. I think it's really important. No, yeah, absolutely. It's a great thing to be able to do, and I'm certainly privileged enough to be able to do it and very thankful that I was taught how to do it. Thank you, Joe. Thank you. Thank you. So, hopefully that gave you a good insight there into kind of the emotional impact of embalming. So please do like, share and subscribe. Send those questions. If you have any questions, send them to liftingthelid@gseller.co.uk and we do our best to answer them for you. And we'll see you next time.