Courageous Crossroads

From Perth to Purpose: Calum Souter’s Story of Courage

• Jeff Johnson

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:05:31

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode, Calum Souter shares a thoughtful and deeply personal conversation about faith, purpose, and what courage really looks like in everyday life. Raised in Perth, Scotland, in a committed Christian home, Calum describes his early resistance to faith, his years of drifting through university life, travel, and the hospitality world, and the turning points that led him back to God through Alpha, service, and a growing sense of obedience. He reflects on courage not as
something dramatic, but as the willingness to step up when life is hard, keep showing up for others, and say yes to God even when you feel unqualified. Now involved in charitable work through his family’s foundation, supporting causes such as anti-human trafficking, humanitarian aid, child welfare, and evangelism, Calum is also passionate about leading Alpha in his hometown and helping others encounter faith for themselves. His story is one of humility, honesty, and a steady commitment to serve where he believes God has called him.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

Let's stay in touch:

See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics, a look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question. What's the most courageous thing you've ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

SPEAKER_04

Hey everybody, this is Jeff. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast, where we ask that question what's the most courageous thing you've ever done? And we're going to pose that question to my next guest, Colum Souter. He's a Scotsman and a new friend of mine, somebody that I had the opportunity to meet at an event in Florida several weeks ago, and I was just captivated with his character, with his insight, with his heart for the Lord, his heart for service. And um, there's so much about this man that you are gonna enjoy. And so I'm grateful to present to you, Callum. We start off talking a little bit about his world travels and some things like that. So let's jump in with our next guest, Callum.

SPEAKER_03

Um I love Lebanon. I've been out a few times now. Um I started to go out to visit. We we support some charities out there called Sat 7 that um broadcast Christian content into the Middle East uh through the kids, they've got kids programs that do like educational stuff for children and women, and they've got uh SAT 7 PARS, which goes into uh the Persian countries into our into the sort of persecuted church, and they've got a network that they feed into there, which is just incredible because they they use satellite TV um because it's it's more difficult to trace, and because it's not you know, through digital or through online, yeah. They and the Iranian government shut off the the uh data in the past and shut off the Wi-Fi, and they can track it. So if you're watching it on your phone, they'll know that you're a Christian watching Christian content and they'll come and arrest you and and uh throw you in prison. Whereas through satellite TV it gets broadcasted and they can just pick it up and it's it's untraceable. But a lot of these guys, that is their that is their church, becomes their church, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. Now was this something that you started in Lebanon?

SPEAKER_03

You're gonna start in Lebanon, or no, no, no. We just support it. It's an amazing organization called uh SAT 7.

SPEAKER_04

They they started in Egypt in the 70s or I kind of don't know exactly when, but so I have a friend of mine, I had a I have a friend of mine in Nigeria that um was handing out phones. I think they're still probably doing it, but they were handing out phones, and they had they had a SIM card in the phone that would carry scripture verses. Wow, and they were able to tuck that into the phone and hand a phone out that seemed to be just a phone to people, but yet it was a way to get the gospel into people's hands for people that knew how to access it.

SPEAKER_03

So there's amazing things going on in the there's people smuggling Bibles over the border and everything like it's you hear some amazing stories of yeah, people over here in over here in Iowa, it's probably like it is in Scotland or in the UK, you know.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, you you can't duck without getting hit in the head with a Bible, you know, over here some of these other places they're dying to read the thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, we're finding there's there's a real hunger for Bibles in the UK as well. It's been a long time. I know that we just launched an alpha a few weeks ago, and um some of the young guys are we're on in week three, and it's it's these two young guys, and they're like, one of the one of them is like, Oh, Callum, I've just been meaning to ask, like, is there is there any Bibles that you guys have here? And I was like, Yes, of course we've got Bibles. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

How many do you want? How many boxes do you want?

SPEAKER_03

Well, and then his friend was with him, and he was like, Oh, I'll I'll actually take one as well if it's going, like, you know, so oh, God bless you guys.

SPEAKER_04

Well, Callum, thank you so much for joining us on the program this morning, and we'll have a wonderful time. Can I have you for an hour? Would that be okay?

SPEAKER_03

I'm I'm you the I've got a few, I've got a few hours uh carved out just in case.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, well, this is fantastic, and it's so good to see you again. I just met you the one time down in Florida a month or so ago, and was so taken with what you and your entire family are doing in ministry. So um we'd like to hear a little bit about that. But this this podcast is focused on here. I just got the new version of the t-shirt. Oh, nice, very exciting. Very exciting. You know, you're established once you get a t-shirt. So you get a logo and you print on a t-shirt, you're established. Yeah. Um, but anyway, we're talking about courage, and we rest on the one question: what's the most courageous thing you've ever done? So I'll ask you that question here in a little bit. But before then, we want to kind of get to know you and get to know what your mind is on this topic of courage. So um let me ask you a couple of questions about who you are and where you're from, so we um our audience can get to know you a little bit. Um are you a rugby guy?

SPEAKER_03

I I am. I used to be, used to be. I uh hung up the boots at the ripe old age of 23. So uh I actually didn't I actually played about um two months ago because my mate uh messaged me saying they were short on players and uh he wanted me to come, and but it was in the middle of it was like uh one of the wettest storms we've had in years. The pitch was flooded, it was a brutal game. Oh yeah, probably that's you know perfect rugby weather, yeah. Extra meters to slide if you need to, if you need it.

SPEAKER_04

So now you're Scottish, born and raised in Scotland, is that correct?

SPEAKER_03

That's right, yeah. Born and raised in Perth, Scotland. Um just an hour from Edinburgh.

SPEAKER_04

So that's gotta be your team then.

SPEAKER_03

For uh for rugby. Yeah. I actually played for yeah, it's it's in Perthshire, it's a small town called Creef.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So Perth, Perth is only 50,000 people, and the surrounding, but the surrounding areas you've got little towns like Creef is 15,000, and they're only like 30 minutes from one another, but there's quite a lot of little towns like that.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, well, I've had the pleasure of visiting Scotland a couple of times, and I shouldn't say this because it's not a good thing, Callum, but I'm jealous because you've got such a beautiful country, and all of your all of your kinsmen over there are so fantastic. I mean, I I'm a haggis guy, I meet so many Scotsmen that are not Haggis people, but um I'm big and fat, so I mean I love that stuff.

SPEAKER_03

I'm the same, I love food, so haggis is up there for me as well.

SPEAKER_04

Well, can you give us a little bit of a background then? Okay, so you started with born and raised, but tell us a little bit about your upbringing and and university, if there's a story there and what you do for your living and all that kind of jazz.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. Um, so born and raised in Perth, uh, my parents were both very uh serving members at the church, you know, it was twice a Sunday, every Sunday, the Friday Club on the Friday night, you know, if there was a prayer meeting in midweek, we'd get dragged along. So uh we were very engulfed in the church uh through our younger years, but um I never really engaged with it personally. I was quite I was a bit of a misfit at school, I was a bit of the class clown, like I wasn't really there to learn, I was there to chat to people and make them laugh and do anything, do anything I could to get out of class. So uh I yeah, so the same applied at Sunday school and all that sort of stuff. I just wasn't really engaged. Um, and then I couldn't wait until I was old enough to never go to uh church again. And uh, so I went to university and was like, this is great, never have to go to anything. I studied business management with marketing. Um and then through that period was like I'll get to live this uni life, to live a life that you want to, do everything that you want. Um, and I kind of went through that for quite a few years. And uh, but thankfully my parents are very persistent and uh kept coming through and offering me free dinners if I would come along to them to church. And as a poor uni student, you take any offering of food that you can. So that got me going back to church again, and but not I wasn't going for my, I was I it got me thinking about faith as an adult, whereas before it was like I just I just wrote it off as that's just something that my parents believe, but that sort of started to plant the seed. Um, but I never really wanted to take a step or change anything of my life. Uh and I got very comfortable in things of the world and my friend group, and those were things I wasn't ready to sort of give up or even think about. That not that I'd have to give them up, but that I'd have to change. And uh I moved to London uh so uni fit finished. I worked in finance uh for the family office for a year, and um COVID hit, and everything that I loved liked about like the people sides, uh meeting the different businesses, learning about the different companies and different sectors, um, all that was sort of cut and being in the office and getting the buzz off the office and speaking to people, like I'm very much a people person, not the sort of uh uh due diligence finance report person, you know. So COVID, it became all of that, and then none of the side that I liked. And I got more and more into cooking and uh was like right, got this passion for I always had a passion for food, I always had a passion for eating, but uh started to grow in the passion. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know what it's like, you know. I loved America because they're just you could just eat your anything and everything that you ever wanted, all the way through it.

SPEAKER_04

That's absolutely right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I still am planning want to do more of America for the food. I've Texas is high uh on my list to get some of that good barbecue. I've never uh explored that before.

SPEAKER_04

So well, but Callum, I'm telling you, so here in Iowa, here in the here in the heartland, yeah, you've got to come to the Iowa State Fair. It happens in August, and it's hot as I'll get out, but there's a million people rummaging around the Iowa State Fair, and you can get it's a foodies paradise. You can get uh they call it a hot beef sundae. So instead of like a hot fudge Sunday, they have mashed potatoes and they've got this beef stuff and all this sauce that's smudged on the top of it. It looks like chocolate sauce, but it's this beefy stuff, and they put a cherry tomato around the top of it, but even thinking about it, and they deep fat fry everything. Callum, come to sounds like Scotland.

SPEAKER_03

They're starting to like there's a few crossovers here. That's right, that's right. So, yeah, so that passion grew, and I thought I'm gonna follow my passion, uh, get start like my idea was restaurants, get into the hospitality sector, um, travel the world, go to Singapore, uh Sydney, Tokyo, work in some of the big kitchens and the big cities around the world. So yeah, and wanted to start a restaurant, so I thought I better learn how to cook. So I'm I went to London to culinary school. Um, and through that process, I start I joined an alpha course. Um, and and it was the first session is is there more to life than this? And then the second session, it goes into like just the facts about Jesus and his life and his resurrection. And I was like, I believe all this. This is like, yeah, like I actually like I'm like it got it was the first time I was like, I actually do believe this. And if I do believe this, then it needs to change my I need to make changes to my life.

SPEAKER_04

Was there a now hold let me jump in there real quick? Was there a there's a couple other details in here that I think might be germane for the audience? You come from a a very successful family, a family that's established. So when you say you went to London to go to work at the family office, this is this is a family office for a company that's very well established. I'm curious, did you feel a responsibility to do that? Or was that uh the next best thing for you because you weren't sure what else you wanted to do, or that was speaking to your gift set and you thought this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_03

Was that yeah, there's there's a bit there's a bit of all that in there. Um I think I've always had quite a business fronted mind, so it felt like for me before then there was maybe I put it was a self-expectation of I need to go down this route, I need to get into the family investment uh business and office, and and definitely post uni, that was I did business management marketing, and it was like after that looking at grad, I was either looking at grad jobs in like um financial wealth advising, because the thought process was go somewhere, like risk it with someone else's, learn with someone else's money before coming back and use it on your own. Uh and but it was all it was all very much that that fronted was how am I gonna um get how am I gonna benefit the family office? How am I gonna sort of roundabout way get back into there?

SPEAKER_04

So it sounds like I'm quite a bit older than you are, Callum, but I'm fourth generation at our family business. And there was there's always, you know, all the family business people that I've talked to, there's a little bit of pressure, usually it's self-imposed, about I need to come back and help out and do this, and this is a great opportunity and all that sort of thing. Um, but it sounds like your parents didn't put a lot of pressure on you about that. It sounds like it was more of an opportunity for you. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

My parents, I mean, they're amazing in the sense that they've always been you figure out and do do whatever you need to do. But it's also to like it was almost frustrating at times. You're almost like, well, give us a bit of guidance, but I think they're so cautious of not wanting to influence the decision that they they and they want they're they're both so independent themselves and have have lived uh like the story like my mom and dad have both come from uh working class like council estate style housing and worked their way up like they earned they did everything, earned everything themselves, if that makes sense. So there's almost like passed on to like us to like you need to figure it out um and figure out your own path. But obviously, there's quite a lot to navigate there. Um as a as a a young 20-year-old male or whatever.

SPEAKER_04

There's so because you're not sure what you want to do necessarily, but you do feel a certain amount of gifting, you know. I mean, you you're like, I'm I can do this, you know, I've got some capability here, and this is there's an opportunity, so why not go do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, okay, so now I want to go back to the alpha thing because that was very interesting too. Were was there a longing? Did you feel like there was a a hole there or something? Or what what got you back into the alpha course? Sounds like you were taking your faith the whole time, but maybe there was a lot oh no, no, I definitely wasn't.

SPEAKER_03

Like my faith was all over the place at that point. Like I had I was taking nuggets, uh like the you know, like one foot in the world, one foot for God, but taking like trying to take the the peace and the and the and the joy from from faith, but then none of the self-control, none of the obedience, living a life for myself type thing. Um, and that sort of so once between Edinburgh from after uni, I sort of went traveling for a bit, and um I would say like just got really you know what traveling's like, like backpacking, you're like drinking every day, and then moved to London, and it's this big city that's like there's things on, there's so many things on. I just joined this culinary school, and uh like chefs in that sort of world are known for you go out quite a lot. So it was like it just felt almost like six months of just like continuous uh just like drinking and and go like just I was feeling very burned out by the end of it. It came up to the end of the year, and I was just like, what am I doing? Like this isn't why like I'm just uh need to focus myself, and that's when I without and starting, and I at that point I was starting to have a face. I was like, if I'm a Christian, this is I definitely need to be doing something else. So I thought um I did 100 Days Sober starting in the new year, and I joined an alpha course. Um that was my sort of two things to to kick kickstart me, uh which was it was it was the best thing, best thing I ever did, 100%. And that 100 days sober just focused me so much on even like the course, and I don't know if it's the same in the US, but there's like a very big like party um party drinking scene in especially in if you hear Scottish, you probably associate it with drinking and it's like all kinds of stereotypes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And most of them are true, unfortunately. But um, so it was something that I needed to focus on and work on to uh myself. And then Alpha was part of that journey. Um and that was the that was the thing that really got me being like, right, I want to do more, I want to start like if I believe in this, I need to. I can't be, I can't, I can't keep. And it's funny, you there's always things that your your parents say that stick out, and they probably don't even know they said it. But I remember um I was hung over for church uh one of the days, and my dad just was like, I think I missed church and I was hungover for lunch anyway, and he was like, my dad just looked at me and just said, just went priorities. And then and like that just hit you so hard. And then after then, I was like, through that journey starting off, I was I realized that I'm prioritizing Saturday, Fridays, Saturdays with my friends, going to bars, trying new restaurants, and Sundays were becoming like just that day of recovery, but not like the day of that you just didn't think about. And I want, I was like, right, I need to change my priorities to Sunday's the day that I need to, you know. That's how it started anyway. Now it's changed from then, but at that time it was like I need to focus that I'm I'm in a good condition for Sunday that I can give God um you know more of myself.

SPEAKER_04

And it wasn't, and it wasn't because of an intervention or anybody saying, Man, you gotta get your act together or anything like that. That was it was self-guided. You just felt like this, I'm not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I I wasn't from the outside in, I probably was I just looking like I was enjoying myself. Do you know what I mean? Like there were people when people wouldn't probably I wasn't doing anything too crazy. I wasn't like it was just consistent, it was just a lot, and yeah, it was internal.

SPEAKER_04

That shows a lot of I don't want to slobber on you, Callum, but that shows an awful lot of character to be that kind of self-aware and go, you know, I'm I'm young, I'm gonna correct right now, I'm gonna do something that's different. I'm gonna give a better Callum to God on Sundays than somebody that's hung over and whatever. And I'm also impressed that your parents didn't have a heavy hand, you know, they were just giving you that guidance, you know, they were walking alongside you. Yeah, yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah. Okay, keep going. So we're in the alpha class now.

SPEAKER_03

So we're in alpha. That started getting me thinking about you know, I need to I need to act like like I if I do genuinely believe this, I need to start acting it. So started going on to church a little bit more more consistently. I started serving on different parts of the team. Um, I was still the the culinary school I was in was six days a week, and it was the shifts would sort of change, you know, you'd be in from seven till three one day, and then the other day being from three like three till nine or whatever, like but it wasn't wasn't the there wasn't much consistency uh through the course. Um but started to sort of get I sort of came into that spot of of uh going along to church but not getting engulfed in the community or not serving, like I wasn't getting fully involved, I was still going along, but I wasn't becoming a member of the church, if that makes sense. Um even though I was serving, I was still doing different things, but um still prioritizing other things. I also got I got a girlfriend at that time that probably distracted me more than anything. Um and then uh at the end of the course, so this is the thing, I still wasn't ready, I still, even though I said I was a Christian, there were still things of the world that I wasn't ready to give up on. And my three of my best mates came up to me and they were like, let's go travel and to South, let's Travel Southeast Asia, like backpacking uh for the next four months, and we're all gonna go to Australia and live out there. And in my mind, that was like, oh, that's like the dream. Like we especially nowadays, you see on your social media and like TikTok and Instagram, like you're only young once, you need to experience everything, travel the world. And I was like, this is an opportunity I can't, like, I need to do. And I remember feeling at the time like God convicted me. Um, but it was still on new, it was very new to me. And I I kind of just was like, no, no, I'm a little that's that's you know, I kind of just overlooked it, um, and then went on, started traveling, and it was like turned my back on God, was going out, uh, just doing the backpacking stuff. Like I'm all my mates aren't Christians, so we're going to beach parties, we're going to hostels, we're we're doing all this stuff again. And um I sort of like the thing was before then I sort of told myself it's gonna be different from last time. Like I'm different, I'm changed now, it's not gonna be the same. Uh, and obviously it's just not how it actually happens in real life, and um it was through that process like I just was starting to get more, I think, more depleted because now I knew I'd had a taste of of God and a taste of the kingdom, you know. So when you're out there doing it, you're just there was moments that like beach parties, you know, sunrise in the morning, where or like even just through the the whole journey, you're like, this is so purposeless. Like, what am I doing here? I'm surrounded by like people I don't know, and everyone's just you know, what are we all like? No one actually cares for each other here, if that makes sense. And just like, what am I doing with my life? Like, this there's more like that question the first week in alpha, is there more to life than this? Just started replaying in my mind over and over. And then one of my friends while we were traveling from back home in Scotland, um, he ended up taking his life back home. Um, and like he was the type of guy that was like super friendly, chatty, we're in a big friend group, um, just started his own bar with his mom. Uh, and no one really saw it coming. It just kind of was on a he just did it, or just one day just woke up and or one night he just got drunk and did it. And um so that was like made just like that, just you just question life even more. You're like, and that question, is there more to life than this? Just like I just really started delving into it. Um and I decided to come back for the funeral because it just didn't feel it was hard to process it when you were out and we were at like a surf camp. Like we would like, we're all like just quiet, like almost in disbelief. Like for me, it was disbelief for so long of being like there's no way the other friends as thunderstruck by that as you were. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

We were all we all hit all of you.

SPEAKER_03

It hit all of us. It was like the the first night we heard, we were all in the same room in a hostel, and we just didn't no one spoke for the rest of the night. We're all just kind of like didn't didn't know what to say and just like just were just in shock. And then uh and it didn't it just didn't feel real because it was so far away. Like things back home just didn't it didn't seem like anything was happening. So for me, I I was like, I need I for my grief and to process it, I I felt like I needed to go to the funeral and then um came back for the funeral for a month back back home to Pear, Scotland, where I hadn't been to that same church that I uh grew up in that where I couldn't wait to leave and never come back. And I just was like God felt God really saying, you need to just start serving at this church. And I just and the first time I was there, I just felt so at home, everyone was so friendly, I came back like it was a completely different experience, you know, and it just felt, you know, so so at home and at peace. And then through the serving, um I actually didn't understand, like it's when someone takes when my friend took his life, it was very much like you try to rationalize it and think why did they do it? And it's a bit of a rabbit hole because you can never really understand it unless you've experienced something similar, you know. Um, and then but one of I went was helping out at um sort of a soup kitchen homeless cafe that they do. Um, and one of the guys came in who was on youth with me. I grew up with him when he was younger. I didn't really know him that well, but I'd seen him, I knew him from from youth, from things at church. And he came in just off the streets, he'd been just recently made homeless, and that week he tried to take his life uh twice, and he was we were sitting across from him, and it was he was just so down and was just talking about how he can't the next all he can think about is the next time he's gonna do it and like how he's gonna do it, and uh, and that it was it's just better for everyone if I'm not here. Um and it was just like seeing the hopelessness, like and for me, it was like I can't believe my my mate was thinking this, and this was like he at least he's talking about my mate, was thinking this, but never told anyone, yeah. And it sort of just showed a little bit so through through serving, it started to help me sort of heal my grief, healed my own grief. Um and yeah, then then I was still stubborn and in the root of my plan is to go out and work in these kitchens in Sydney and uh Tokyo and all this. That was my plan, so I was gonna follow it through. So after that month, I flew back out. My my friends had all flown to Perth, Australia. So I went to Perth, Australia instead of Perth, Scotland. But I felt I felt God really put on my heart, you need to be in Perth, Scotland. But for me, I was like, oh, you maybe mean Perth, Australia. I'll try that out for a bit. Um and just I was there for a month, and after but really feeling torn about being there, and then I went to one, I went to one service. I started going to a church out there. I gave it, I was like, I'll go, I'll be healthy, I'll uh I'll do all the things that um you know, I'll go to church, I'll get and it was the probably the quickest I've been accepted into a church community. There were it was a brilliant church called Kingdom City out there, and they were full of young people, it was exciting, it was not like it was really good, but then there's something didn't feel right, and then uh I went along to a service and it was on obedience, and it just hit so home on me. And I was like, in that moment, I was like, I just need to be obedient, I need to head back to Perth. But then even in that week between after it, I was like, Well, maybe I don't know, maybe that's not exactly what it meant. And I went back on a Sunday and I got the exact same message on obedience again, and I was like, right, that's you know, you can't be any clearer God. So, but at that point, I still wanted to work in hospitality and kitchens, and I was like, God, what am I gonna do in Perth? There's food's awful, there's no there's no good restaurants, like on the wrong side of Australia, all the fun stuff is over on the other side, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So then uh on the way back, I got the opportunity through so the family office um leads into uh a chart a foundation, um, a charitable foundation, uh, and they support thousands of different charities um across across the world. They're in over 96 countries. Well, they support charities that operate in over 96 countries in the world, and uh I got the opportunity to visit one of the charities called Hope for Justice in um uh the in Ethiopia on the way back, and I was like, okay, yeah, that would be amazing. I'll I'll I'll see some of the work that they're doing. And uh I got to see a 12-year-old girl who'd been trafficked for nine months, uh reunited with her family. And it was just an insane moment. And the the guy I was the CEO Tim, I was traveling with, he just turned to me and was like, that's my daughter's the same age as that. Like I can't even imagine her going through that for one day, never mind nine months. And I was just it just was like such a powerful moment. I just thought I thought, how can how can I work in a kitchen, you know, if this stuff's if it seems like there's so like that whole is there more to life than this? And I was like, this is what life is, like this is these moments of of reuniting, reuniting families are you know, there's just so much more uh there's so much more problems here than than how long ago is that when did that happen? That was about just just under three years ago. Okay, yeah, two or three years ago.

SPEAKER_04

Cathartic moment that hits you like a thunderbolt, and you're like, okay, I know what my purpose is. At least I know what my purpose is for the next few months or next few years or whatever.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, so after that, I'm just like, what can what else can I do for the foundation? Can I get more involved? Um, and then yeah, I've been doing that, I've been doing that ever since.

SPEAKER_04

And do you get so uh you don't have to go into all the the details because I know that your the work that your family does is extensive, but are you all over the world or are you just in Lebanon, the Middle East, the UK, or where do you think it's just in We Perth.

SPEAKER_03

No, uh we're in uh we're we support organizations like we give we get around 400 applications, 300 to 400 applications every month. Um the majority of grants are 3k and under. Uh we'll we'll maybe give to like 50% of the grants. It's not every single one that we'll we'll give to, but we give to over 1,500 different different grants every year. And some of those are multi-year commitments, some of those are just some of those are multi-year large commitments, um, all the way up to like multi-million, and others are just 3k and under. So uh majority 3k and under, and then we sort of look more in depth in the ones that are sort of 5k and above. Um, but yeah, most they need to be a UK registered charity, but a lot of them have an office here, but a lot of their works are international and all over all over the world, really. 96 countries, over 96 countries, uh South America, um in a lot in Africa, um, all across the continent, and um throughout all throughout the UK as well. Um mental health charities and different things.

SPEAKER_04

Is there a ministry? Is there a um Endeavor in particular that is a favorite of yours that you could talk about a little bit? I don't know how you know private you want to keep a lot of this stuff, but no, not so good.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I'd say from the trust point of view, they're very broad in the terms that they'll support. We do uh application like grant by grant, we review it um each on for its own right, and we really have a broad spectrum of things we give to, but the four things that they sort of focus on are big things on our heart is anti-human trafficking, humanitarian aid, child welfare in all in all forms, like uh, you know, uh the care system, fostering adoption, clean water and access for children, food for children, uh that sort of takes a multi-sort of approach. And then uh evangelism are sort of the four four key things. I'd say if there's three that I'd have to say um that are close to my heart would be alpha, obviously, through my own journey, and and I now run uh an alpha in Perth uh to sort of take that back home. And um, and they're they're all over the world. Their their their aim is to their aim is to reach a billion people by however 2050 or something like that. But it's it's an incredible, and they're contextualizing it to different parts. So I was in while I was in Lebanon, they're contextualizing it to the Arabic, uh into an Arabic version. Uh so that just it's not just they're it's not just they're translating it, but they're getting it from a because it's it's very different, we come from very different standpoints. So Alpha was sort of written in the sense for the UK, where it's like a secular society, and a lot of it's proving setting it up to prove like Jesus was real, here are the facts, and like it's almost that that logic followed by uh getting into the sort of deeper stuff of of the spirit and everything. Whereas in in the Middle East, they come from a standpoint where most of them believe in God, but it's uh you know, they don't come from a standpoint of secularism where they don't believe in in anything, it's they believe in God, but a lot of it's teaching who the characteristics of God are very different, right?

SPEAKER_04

You know, right, for sure. Well, I I don't want to flip this interview around and make it all about Danielle and I, but you're mentioning Alpha, and that was instrumental in our faith journey as well. You know, we were we were good solid Christians, but we got involved with uh with an alpha class and then ended up shepherding a bunch of them and getting involved with that in a big way at our church. In fact, our very first trip that we took to South Africa, we flew from London down to Cape Town, and on our way back, we bought four or five extra days, I think, in London with our kids when they were all four of our kids when they were really little. And we had just been down doing ministry work in Cape Town, came back to London, and I think the second day we stopped by Holy Trinity Brompton at Nikki Goebbels Church, and we sat there, and the guy remembers was singing How Great Thou Art, and based on what we had experienced in South Africa, the tears were just rolling down our face. I mean, that alpha program has done so much to increase people's faith or just bring people to faith. I mean, God bless you for doing that, Callum. And now you're taking now you now you're getting it rooted in Perth.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, come on.

SPEAKER_04

Whip people on too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I think I think it's anointed, and I think it's it's just an amazing tool to get people like first, like I think a lot of people think, oh, we'll do an alpha, it'll solve all the issues, but no, it's it's the prayering, praying into in the intentionality of reaching other reaching other people, and it's it's being authentic, it's it's creating the space for you to open up, be authentic, build these connections. Um, yeah, I I mean I couldn't I couldn't speak higher of it. Um do you have siblings? I've got three. I'm one of four, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Are they any good? The other three, are they any good at all? You're fantastic, Alan. Are they okay?

SPEAKER_03

They're all great in their own ways, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Anyone else involved with the family office and the family business or yeah?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, we all we're all quite close, so we we touch base on and and crossover and a lot of things that we're doing. But um my sister is a trustee, and my brother just came on recently. My the one up for me just came up on as a trustee. Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, well, I want to thank you so much for that background. I mean, there's we could spend hours here talking about all the different stuff that you touched on there, which is just fantastic, and the kind of experiences that you had in your life already have the hallmarks of a lot of courageous actions in there. Um I'm curious, how would you define courage?

SPEAKER_03

It's a good question. I think when I was sort of thinking of it before, I was like, you always jump to those the extr these extremes of like, you know, stepping like people stepping up against like you almost think like for me, it's like wartime, like the courage of the folk that were fight, like that's like an act of like fighting against something or stepping up against something that seems evil or or is but then the more I sort of thought about it, um I kind of thought of you know, people who actually spend time and give up their lives with when their loved ones are are really are really ill or are dying. And I was like the courage of them being there every day, you know, someone someone with Parkinson's or or or you know one of these diseases is it's it is so tough. And just even just showing up and being there, like that's I was like, wow, that's those are real moments of courage. Um so I guess for me it's uh it's being there, it's like stepping up when things are tough.

SPEAKER_04

That's a great definition. I don't know that I've heard that one before, and that hit it right on the that hits the nail right on the head, I think. Stepping up when things get tough is a definition of courage. Do you think courage is in abundance in our society, or do you think it's lacking?

SPEAKER_03

Do you see it all around you, or do you No, I see I think it's lacking for sure. I think there's there's a spirit of fear uh in a lot of cases, in in terms of like for us, when we look out, we need like as part of Alpha, you go out and ask for leaders to join. And and even just associating that word leader to the term, people get really anxious about it and are like, Oh, I'm well, I'm not sure if I'm gonna be good enough, or I'm a thing, and it's like I mean, one, it should really be called hosting, that you're just there to be a person that it facilitates conversation to an extent, and it's just a friend, it's friendly and accepting and let you know, but people that get that there's that tagline of leader, and you see the people sort of panic a bit. Um and I for me as well, but when I first started stepping into it, because I'd never I'd never led a group or I'd never um I hadn't even done an alpha when I moved back. I I'd been part of one, but I hadn't helped or served on one. But our church just weren't doing one anymore. They just stopped it. And uh a group of us were chatting about how we all sort of and and and sort of just so there was I understand it to an extent, but I think in the in society today and in culture, there's just uh there is uh a fear of stepping at stepping in to the into positions of leadership.

SPEAKER_04

A hesitancy about that. That's interesting that you talk about it from a vantage of leadership. The you know, the scripture says um in the New Testament, it says, you haven't been tempted by anything but what's common to man, and God's faithful, he won't let you be tempted without giving you a way out, you know. And we recognize that Jesus was tempted tempted just like we are, but he was without sin, so he never acted on the temptation. I think I've heard other people say that if the temptation wasn't there, where would the victory be? And I think based on your your definition of courage, it's a little bit like that, just keeping the faith and not taking the bait. Do you know that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And he does that as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's it's also along those the of the verse you shared there where he says he won't he won't give you too much that you can't handle. I mean, I'm paraphrasing a lot, but uh in essence, and I think that God um will give you not bread comes, but it's like steps up, like he'll give you a hand up to the next. But he's not gonna he's not gonna he's not gonna just place you at the top. Do you know what I mean? He's not just gonna just pick you up and put you right there, he's gonna prepare you, and there is, I mean, there is uh refining process through it all, and each challenge and each step up thing that you step into you learn from, and it refines you in a lot of ways, um, and then prepares you for the next.

SPEAKER_04

I completely agree. And I agree with what you say about how you feel like it's lacking in society today. It's interesting to me that people you know respond more to fear than than they do pressing through with faith. And it's um I guess that's the I guess that's the world that we live in. That's the fight that we have every single day.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and and fear and distraction, I would say distraction is also a huge a huge pillar in stopping people from from stepping into it. It's almost like you can it's so easy to avoid things these days. Like you can just you know, just can continue to live life or you can continue. Continue to, you know, with with your screens and everything that you've got accessible to you. And I mean I'm talking about when for younger kids as well. And I experienced this where it's like you can you can spend days on a video game and and you're you're getting micro achievements through that. Like no, like you achieve something. So you you fool yourself, you think you've actually done you've been very successful and you've done a lot, but really all you've done is spend 24 hours playing a game that doesn't lead to anything. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

Like yeah, completely distracted. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in for a second into the theological deep end with you quick because you're a Christian and you brought up the subject, and then we'll jump back out and I'll ask you about what's the most courageous thing you've ever done. But do you feel like that's a spiritual attack that we live in now? Or it you know, with all of the fear that we're inundated with? Because if you watch television, you know it feels like the world wants you drunk, it wants you on drugs, it wants you womanizing, it wants you full of lust and just completely distracted, and those algorithms are so strong. I'm 58 years old, and and please Lord, help me throw this phone into the river because if I look at it and start poking, you know, even you talk about being a foodie. I love watching some of these people cook on Instagram, and I can click on the wrong thing and it knows that I like it, and all of a sudden, an hour and a half later, I'm like, I've just been watching people make stuff that I'm not gonna eat. I can't smell the food, I've just been sitting here like an idiot doing that, completely distracted from whatever God wants me to do. Do you feel like that's a spiritual attack, or do you feel like that's just the nature of the fall, or what do you make out of that?

SPEAKER_03

Um it's it's a good question. I think I was I've always been very hesitant to say things are spiritual attacks in the past, but um I you know the it just it feels like how can it not be? And there's there's one of these things that's uh and it took me a long time to to clear my algorithm and get it onto the Christian Christian stuff. So it's good now. But one one of the we're talking there, one of the it reminded me of one of the videos um where it says the biggest lie we've ever been taught is that this, and it showed a bunch of photos of like spending time with your family, children, uh going to church, eating well, uh is was us being brainwashed. You know, there's that narrative that like, oh, the church are brainwashing you, and it's like, well, how if that's brainwashed, now we've been made to see that like going out, partying, spending like getting as many girls as you can, getting a yacht, that that is life, that that like that is when now it seems like way more of a brainwash and way more of just like chasing false false gods and anything else, you know. Yeah, um, and then also on the other side of that a phrase that I've always heard is uh comfortability is the enemy's greatest weapon. So if you if if he just keeps you know distracting you, if he just keeps giving you everything you want and making you super comfortable, are you you're never gonna reach that point of any God, like any you know, any god daily. So I think there's a little bit in there as well.

SPEAKER_04

Ah um okay, who represents courage to you? Do you have examples in your life or historical figures, or when you think of some you mentioned before about people that go off to war? Of course, you're William Wallace, that's courage. Yeah, face and doing all the things. But but no, I mean who when you think about courage per your definition, who do you think about?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think I think that's where my initial like the connotations of courage, that's maybe where it takes me. But when I really think about it, I always I always say that the uh like from serving at the from serving at those like soup kitchens and um like homeless cafes, the old ladies that show up every week and treat all everyone as their you know as their kids and they're there, they just show up every week and they're pr they they deal with difficult situations, but they're so emotionally invested in people who they don't know and also people who quite often fail them. Like they're they're not gaining anything from these relationships, but they they'll they're still there every week and they're still praying for them every night, and it just those those ladies, old ladies in my in our church are the ones that I kind of look to and I'm like, I wish I had faith like that, or I wish I was, you know. Um that's courage, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04

Um okay, I want to ask you the question now, Callum. Callum Souter, what's the most courageous thing you've ever done?

SPEAKER_03

Well, I feel like uh I definitely feel like I'm in the shadow of giants in the terms of of courageous acts. I've um I would say touching on there, like starting that alpha coming back to Perth in the in the first right, and then um leading an alpha uh without even without even leading a group before, but just just knowing that that's you know where where God wanted me to be type thing. But I think there was a lot I didn't really want to do it to be honest. I just wanted to serve on one. I didn't want to be involved in the in the leadership of it and the responsibilities, and you know, there was also the point of like, what if this no one shows up and all you get all these, you know, the enemy whispering in your ear, all these sort of things. Um, but just pushing through with that, and and also I'm not a big fan of public speaking, but no one would we couldn't find it. I was like trying really hard to find someone to MC it and do it all. And uh I think but then I just ended up doing it, even though it was really something I didn't want to do. But I think those things also and uh a mirror of that was I've always been uh very scared to do public to do spinging in public uh from a young age, and now I'm in the the gospel choir. I've actually just been given a big uh solo for this uh Saturday. So that Callum.

SPEAKER_04

I've heard your voice. You've got a lovely you and your dad have a lovely voice. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that thing of like you can always get caught, especially when I was younger, the like I put expectations on myself that if I wasn't excellent, then I wasn't it wasn't good enough type thing. And so just stepping out, so it was the same with that was the form of public speaking or like leading the group. I was like, Well, I'm not gonna be excellent at it. There's gonna be better people than me, so I shouldn't do it. Whereas sometimes God just calls us to step in and and just do it. He doesn't, you know, you know, he doesn't call the qualified, he calls the he qualifies the called.

SPEAKER_04

That's it. Yeah, exactly. Well, so you're talking about the most courageous thing you've ever done is I don't want to read anything into it, but through the whole conversation, you're talking about obedience. You know, you're hearing that story about obedience down at Perth, and you're thinking I'm not being obedient, so you go back home to Perth, the other Perth. You're practicing obedience now, and and you're doing the thing that you know in your heart that God wants you to do, and that's the most courageous thing you've ever done. I absolutely love that. Have your have your friends followed suit, or are they still a work in process? You know, everybody's always kind of writing their story a different thing here, or I mean, can you tell?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, it's interesting. It is interesting. I think um when we're talking about that, I'm actually running two alphas this this term, yeah, and and the second one I'm doing is just a small one with some of my closest mates uh from home who aren't Christian, have never stepped into a church or thought about it, but um there's been a few times uh I've been at a party or been at the pub and and they've cut they've had a few, a few too many, and they come over and they're like, This God thing's kind of interesting. Could you tell me a bit more about this? And uh one of my mates was going through a hard time with his mum, and my other friend said, You need to speak to Calum and you need to talk to him about uh what about the sort of faith side of things and how that can because his mum, his mum um was an alcoholic and had sort of relapsed pretty hard and he was looking to get her into rehab, um and so being the first sort of point of call for that was was uh was pretty special to me. And then so then they've they've all joined on an alpha course. Um and you know, it's the first, it's actually that's the other thing, it's way more, it's way more intimidating because you're like, um, these are your mates, you know what I mean? And you're sitting down at home and you put on the first video, and I'm just the first session, I'm like, they're just gonna turn around and be like, just laughing, like, what are you why are you showing me that showing us this? It's like, you know, like we can't talk about anything deeper than uh, you know, like that. So like you know, very much lad chat, like you don't really go into too much, you don't go, you don't never dig too deep. Um, but they've loved it. They're all saying that how how it's been amazing to just chat like this, and they're all saying it's it's great that we can chat like this without you know having six beers and and uh you know we can actually just do this on a Wednesday night. And um one of them they've all been starting, they've all been warm at their hearts are really warm to it. Um two of them have talked, three of them have talked about praying. Um and one of them, uh I'll just share this. This is an amazing story. There's a week on forgiveness, and it talks about how you know forgive not forgiving someone is like drinking poison and hoping the other person gets sick. And he has grown up, his mum was an alcoholic, his dad was a chef who was like very stereotypical chef, uh, love party, and sort of was off the scene from a young age. And so the stepfather came into the scene who used to abuse, it would like he would like hit um my friend and his siblings, and so and then one day when he was 18, him and his friends went around, they fought him, beat him up, kicked him out of the house, and he ended up passing away uh a couple years ago. And so the that question at the end is there anyone in your life for you to forgive? And he was like, Well, I would I would never forgive him, and I and he was like, even if he was alive, I wouldn't they would I wouldn't want to forgive him. And then he calls me up that week and he's like uh mate, mate, I've just had the weirdest dream. He was like, and in my dream, I met my stepfather and I forgave him. And uh, and he's been really leaning into it, and and he's just like, you hear the stories in Alpha of people who've been transformed, and he's like, All right, well, this is great, like, how do I get this? Can I can we just can we just do this? And so he's he's messaged me the other day saying, I've been praying every day, things are going well, he feels amazing. So uh praise praise the Lord for for that.

SPEAKER_04

But oh praise God for that. Callum, that changes that changes is everybody's trajectory, you know. I mean, you just become a different person, as you well know, when God gets a hold of you and you drop that weight and all that kind of stuff. Oh my gosh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03

So, first of many, hopefully. Hopefully, this leads on to the rest of the group. That would be amazing.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you're the Lord has certainly given you a front row seat and your obedience responding to that. You know, you get to you get to sit right there and see what God does in people's lives, and that's uh what a privilege that is. Yeah. Um, do you feel like people can learn courage? I mean, I think we're kind of we're c we're kind of is courage is associated with faith, it's associated with obedience, the way that you've described all these things. Do you think people can learn courage?

SPEAKER_03

Outside of I think no, I think you can. I think uh a lot of getting comfortable in the uncomfortableness is becoming like a trend. I was gonna say without faith, I don't know how you can, but I mean that's from my own story. Um that I think in a in without God you can learn courage. I think you can learn, yeah, I think you can learn forms of courage. I don't think you can really, I don't think people would really do that like sacrificial love for someone where they step in when things aren't like I think people could be courageous when it means that they are they're receiving something from it. You know, there's that courage where you can step out and and be a leader, but it benefits you in some way. I think there's that style of courage, but the the sort of style that we're talking about with the old ladies who are doing it and aren't aren't receiving anything from it but are there anyway, and it's the same with with people, your loved ones and stuff like that. I think it's a bit tougher when without without God being on your side and in in that regard, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

He's the he's the answer, isn't he? Wow. Yeah. Um okay, just a couple more questions, Callum, and then I'm gonna let you go. You've been so gracious with your time. I'm I'm very, very, very grateful. Why do you think why do you think the scriptures are very clear, you know, that you are fearfully and wonderfully made. You know, the author Greg Kokel talks about the five words that describe the Bible. You know, God, man, Jesus, cross, and redemption. And the redemption, of course, is Christ being reunited with the church and us being reunited with him and all that sort of thing. But God started in the beginning and then he created man, and you're his most favorite thing, and he's very clear about that, that it's an individual thing, fearfully and wonderfully made, you're his masterpiece, all that sort of thing. But you're a part of the body and you've been given certain gifts. Why do you think God made you? Why do you think he unleashed you on the world? What do you what do you feel? How about that for a light question? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. No, it's good. Um, you know, it's funny. I I mean, I've I've been thinking a lot, and it's been coming a lot up a lot recently. I wasn't really I don't really share this too often, but um I got a word during that time at uni when I first started coming to church, I got a word from one of the ministers who said he saw me with expectations written over my chest, and then uh someone came over and took it off, and there was a warrior underneath. And uh when he told me this, and I was like, I was like, that's pretty weird. I had no exposure to where people giving words of knowledge or anything. I was like, what's this guy on about? That was a weird thing to say to someone you don't know. Um, and then as I'm talking about my journey, I start getting more and more into it and just in London through that process to, you know what, I want to give my life to Christ. And my brother told his friend who messaged me a verse, which was Judges 6, 11 to 16, um, which talks about the story of Gideon, of how and Gideon thought he didn't think anything of himself. He he was like almost scared in the field when the angels came, and and God said, you know, you're to be this mighty warrior. And Gideon was like, How how can I be a mighty warrior? Like, I'm I'm the le the the least in my tribe, I'm the least in my family and the lowest in my clan of Manessa, and uh and you know that kind of struck with me through the time. But he says, he says, and he God's answer to him is I'm on your side, trust in me throughout it. And I think that sort of has mirrored my journey a lot uh through the years, and part of my journey part of it, you're saying there, what I feel like my sort of calling is is one, is be a good and faithful steward with the with the family office and and ensure that I've been blessed so that I can bless others. I think that's what and God's placed me there. But I also on a personal side have been placed in Perth to sort of reach the lost and um and be, yeah, that's that's kind of where I feel I've he's called me to be. So like geographically in Perth at the moment to reach the lost, but on a sort of bigger picture through the trust, uh support, support other ministries, other you know, part of my role is getting to meet some incredible people doing incredible work that really real stories of courage of people on the front lines for for God for the kingdom and being able to bless them and support them in some way is is a huge honor. Um for me.

SPEAKER_04

I I love Callum that you have been you've been placed in a position where you can have a very big reach. And I hope I'm not overstating this, but um you could get distracted by that because there's so many things that your business can do. So many things But again, back to this idea that in the beginning was God, you know, and then he created man, and you're the only calendar he ever created in all of human existence, and he died on the cross for you, and he would do it again just for you, that you're back to Perth, your small town of Perth now, focusing on that person that's sitting right in front of you in an alpha class, and that that's where you really feel God's purpose. I think there's something so beautiful about that because in God's economy, if you touch one life, you've done the work, the whole thing. So wow.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and he's so he's so intentional and and knows us all by name and knows us all he so knows us all so intimately and speaks to us. And I think sometimes you kind of can forget that, and but you're like sometimes it's you have to remind yourself like God's placed me here today, like what for what? Like what what can I be used for? What's God trying to say to me through you know these different things and focusing on that rather than trying to look at you can look at the big picture all the time and go down a rabbit hole of you know and then it's distraction, and then you don't you never land on what you're supposed to be doing, even though, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Well, Callum, you impressed me greatly, young man, and I'm so glad that I got to know you in Florida here a little bit ago, and uh, you know, your mom and dad as well. And um God go with you with the work that you're doing because he's definitely got amazing things ahead for you. So, Callum, man of great courage, thank you so much for sharing with us today.

SPEAKER_03

No, thank you for having me on. It's been great to catch up. And uh yeah, thanks for having me. God bless.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you'd like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at Crossroads Apologetics.org. Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info at crossroadsapologetics.com or info at crossroadsapologetics.org, telling us about the most courageous thing you've ever done.

Head Shot

Jeff Johnson

Host