From California to Calling: Steve Freeman’s Courageous Journey

In this episode of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast, Steve Freeman offers a thoughtful and deeply personal picture of courage, describing how the most courageous thing he has done was surrender his life to Christ and then follow God’s call even when it meant leaving comfort, certainty, and financial security behind. He shares the story of walking away from a successful career path in Southern California, moving his family to Iowa, and helping plant a church, all out
of a growing conviction that courage is found in faithful obedience. Steve Freeman is the pastor of Living Hope in Clive, Iowa, and a former insurance professional with more than 30 years of experience. He is also a husband, father of four, grandfather, and ministry leader with a strong commitment to sharing the gospel, strengthening marriages and families, and encouraging others to live with purpose, faith, and truth.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics. A look into what motivates us to step out encouraged and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question: What's the most courageous thing you've ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Okay, we've been off a couple of weeks while we've been recording some new interviews for the Courageous Crossroads Podcast. Hey everybody, this is Jeff. Glad to be back with you and super excited for our next guest, Steve Freeman. Now, listen, sometimes there's people in your life that are sitting right next to you, people that you've known for a long time, but you haven't invested the time to really get to know them. And my next guest is in that category. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I was blown away with what Steve had to share with me and how he answered that question what's the most courageous thing he's ever done? I thought he was an Iowan, lifelong Iowan. I had no idea what he did for a living, and to find out that he was not and what he actually does surprised me. And not only that, but it really enriched me when he was able to tell me the whole story. And this is going to enrich you as well. So for our first podcast back in a couple of weeks, um, I am more than happy to present to you my friend Steve Freeman. Here he is. Welcome everybody. Our guest this week is Steve Freeman, buddy of mine that I've known for I don't know how long we've known each other, Steve. A few years now.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

We're cross-trainers.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah. Yeah. We bump into each other across trainers and and I think we became grandpa about the same time. Okay. So do you have one grandchild? We have one and one on the way. But same. When is your next one on the way?

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Uh July.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Okay. Well, we're in August. Well, you and I are right on top of each other. How tell me about your your grandchild now, girl boy.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Oh, girl. She'll be two uh next month. Uh of course, just adorable. My wife is actually over there right now. She has the privilege of watching Eden uh six or seven days a month, uh depending on my son and daughter-in-law's uh schedule. So it's it's either a month, uh it's always a Monday or Wednesday. And um, my my son's a police officer, so uh his schedule alternates every or it's on an eight-day cycle. So usually six, seven days a uh a month, and many days she'll she'll bring her out here so we get a hangout. So it's cool. Oh, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Well, I don't I'm not gonna judge your grandparenting, Steve, but Danielle and I are killing it. We're absolutely killing it in the thing. I mean, I was so ready to become a grandpa, and I've people were saying what a great deal it was. And I I had I had no clue. This is so fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Isn't it the best? It's the best. Yeah, I tell people that you know everybody tells me how great it is, and and it's greater.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

It is, it for sure is. Okay, so thanks for joining us on the courageous crossroads podcast. We come down on that one question: what's the most courageous thing you've ever done? But before we get to that, I'd like you to introduce yourself a little bit. You know, we've talked about you being a grandpa, but maybe go back a little bit and give people a little bit of an elevator pitch or however much you want to tell them about your background, where you grew up, what you do for a living, about your family, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

So yeah, you bet. So um I pastor Cover Chapel Living Hope now in Clive, Iowa. So uh and that's in fact I'm gonna talk a little bit about that journey today. Um and I've spent also 30, over 30 years in the insurance industry, recently, you know, I call it retired, but I think ultimately retirement is heaven. Uh so retired from insurance and now serving the Lord uh full time, just kind of however he leads, but but really focused on on the church. Uh, have four kids, um, aged 30 to 22. Uh, my oldest is a police officer. He's married. We just spoke about our precious granddaughter and uh grandson that's on the way. Interesting. Um, uh, my my my son's father-in-law has 11 uh girls in a row, five daughters and six granddaughters. So this is number 12 is is boy number one. So word is there's a baseball card collection uh for grabs or something like that for the first boy. Um my daughter works for Jocko Fuel. Uh she develops uh supplements or background to science, and so it's been a great fit for her. And uh my second son, third child, uh is a personal trainer, he's in corporate wellness and just helping a lot of people. I he he works, in fact, where I used to work, and I said, you know, you got something like 1,500 people that sit at a desk all day long, so it's a great group to help with uh with fitness and yeah, and then my youngest is in the guard. He just graduated uh from Iowa State and is uh applying to get into law enforcement. So my wife works part-time at SHIELS and takes care of our granddaughter a number of days a week and just helps a lot in the ministry. So we've been in Iowa since 2004 and uh grew up in in uh California, mostly in Southern California.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Okay. So what brought you to Iowa?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Well, so you know, it's that's kind of what I was gonna talk a little bit about in terms of uh courage. You know, when you first talked about this at um at Crosstrainers, I thought, well, you know, I think of courage, I think of military, I think of our law enforcement folks out there, you know, doing brave things uh for for the world and make make the world a better place. And I thought, well, I you know, I have a story like that. And then just recently, uh I think three weeks ago, you you mentioned this, and I I forgot the topic, but I remember I just felt the Lord leading, like, go share your story, you know what I mean? Like it's it's not you know saving the world from bad guys or whatever, but uh uh our our mission here is is uh preaching the gospel, and so um I gave my life to the Lord back in 1993, uh May 14th, 1993, and just immediately had uh a passion for reaching people. And um so that fall, interestingly, so that was in May that fall, my brother-in-law was starting the school of ministry at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. So um, really that's that's uh like the seminary program for Calvary Chapel, but really the focus of that is church planning. And you know, frankly, I thought he was a little nuts because he was given up a great marketing job to go basically study the Bible and learn about planning churches, and so um uh, but but he did that and the Lord just just blessed during that time. Um, two years later, at his graduation from the School of Ministry, uh, they had it down in Balboa in Southern California, and the guys were all sharing about what the Lord did in their heart during school. Many of them shared about vision, about what they had in store, what what they felt like God had in store for them and what their plans were. And you know, where two years later I thought he was out of his mind completely out of his mind. You know, I just start feeling uh feeling a little bit of a tug.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

And um, you were let me interrupt you here, Steve. So this okay, let me let me calibrate a little bit. Is that are are you answering the question, what's the most courageous thing you've ever done? Yeah, kind of starting to get into that. Good, great. This is fantastic. Were you were you a Christian uh from a young age? Because you're talking about being getting a tug feeling a tug, but you weren't in the the evangelism business per se, you know, as a as a employee.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

I grew up I grew up going to church mostly. Um we we largely went to Methodist Presbyterian churches. Uh my my parents actually helped uh start a Methodist church up in Northern California when I was young, actually at uh originally at the junior high where where I went. And but I really I hadn't surrendered my life to Jesus. I wasn't following Jesus by any means. Uh we moved to Southern California between my junior and senior year in high school, and it seems like maybe kind of an odd time to move, but I was excited about it. I loved being down in Southern California. I wasn't following Jesus, kind of just got involved in all the stuff that young people get involved in. And um, you know, I was in sports in school and and everything, and um uh through then went to college and you know, my my Friday afternoon class, we called it Pub 301, you know, and just kind of the party life through college and uh but in uh so a couple of years after college, uh to answer your question, um you know, I'd gone, I'll back up a little bit. When I in high school in Southern California, I did start going to um like a local community church where I heard the gospel. And I was mostly there for the girls, full disclosure. Yep, but it tugged on my heart at that point in time. And I remember staying after, talking with the guy and kind of praying the prayer, so to speak, to commit my life to the Lord, um, but really didn't surrender. And so uh that would have been uh 86. It wasn't until 1993 uh to answer your question that I gave my life to Christ. I was at a I was at a retreat, you know, I was working in the insurance industry, things were going well. Uh I was living in Newport Beach, you know, I could see the beach from our balcony, it was gorgeous, you know, fast car, lots of stuff going on down there. All the things that the world would say, man, that's like you got it. But like I knew there was more. And so I gave my life to the Lord in May of that year. And uh that's when you know, I I talk about really starting to feel um uh a tug towards sharing Christ to being on mission for the Lord and uh for evangelism.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Had your had your siblings jumped into the deep end with their faith before you, or did they come after you?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Really good question. My sister, three years before I did, uh, she gave her life to the Lord. And at the time, that really put um a strain on our relationship. We had been pretty close growing up, uh, but she was going to church, she was going to Bible study, you know, going to small group, and I was doing everything except that. And so uh we didn't uh interact a lot. Interestingly, part of what the Lord used to draw me to him was that relationship that we had had. And so my brother-in-law, well, now brother-in-law, uh uh reached out and uh I remember answering the phone in in Newport Beach, California, and uh he said, Do you want to go hear the coach of the University of Colorado football team speak? And so, as you probably know, it was Bill McCartney, the uh Bill McCarthy of the former uh he's involved in in uh Promise Keepers. Promise Keepers, yeah. And it was an early, early meeting. Um, my brother-in-law had actually gone to school there and was uh he was on the uh the team that you know he they did the not a cheerleader, but like the the the stunts. He threw the girls in the air and all that kind of stuff. So he had been around football. And so he invited me to go. And um, and and Debbie was gonna go, right? Didn't know that it was an all-men's thing. Um, it was a smaller uh gathering, well, smaller for promise keepers, probably a couple thousand people in Costa Mesa at the time that went. And um, so I said yes. Then after we hung up, I thought, man, that's probably some Christian thing, you know. So I called him back and he said, Well, yeah, he's a Christian, but you'll enjoy it. So I went. Um, they let us in, let my sister in, uh, just we didn't know, and and it was there that um I got invited to uh a retreat up in the mountains of Southern California. And the Lord put me next to this just fired up bodybuilder guy who at the time, like a lot of young guys, I was in into weightlifting, still like to now I do it just so I don't hurt, but but uh back then, you know, like uh just uh put me the Lord put me right next to this guy, and I remember one thing that bugged me but sort of struck me is yeah, at one point the worship leader says, put your hand on the shoulder of the guy next to you and just look him in the eyes and say, I love you. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is nuts, you know. But I rolled with it. I'm not gonna do that, yeah. And um ended up getting invited to a retreat uh that was gonna be a couple weeks later up in the mountains of Southern California, and uh uh and by the grace of God, I ended up going. I was sort of a weekend warrior. I mean, I was responsible as far as responsibility goes, I'm a job and work and all that. Um, but uh, you know, I'd go off to Palm Springs or San Diego or Las Vegas or whatever for a lot of the weekends. I got invited to Las Vegas the same weekend as um this retreat, but decided to go to the retreat, you know, something about a couple nights in the mountains. I I remember telling a friend, I don't care about this, you know, born-again explicative stuff, but I I just want to find peace. I want to find peace. And um that's where I gave my life to Christ. Ended up going there, and you know, I uh I remember Pastor Raw gave an altar call and and I uh I didn't stand initially, but when he talked about like recommitting your life to Jesus, I thought, well, yeah, I can do that. You know, he he was talking about Enoch, a man in the old testament, that he lived he lived for God, he lived right with God, and I realized, you know what, I'm not doing that. You know, and uh decided to surrender that night.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So inside of the most courageous thing you've ever done, it is accepting Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Inside of it, yeah, 100%. In fact, I would say, well, that that leads to another interesting conversation because I think for some people like that is a big act of courage, you know. But really for me, you know, I heard that I was I was uh really just stepping up and recommitting my life to the Lord, and you know, God just really got a hold of my heart after that.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Okay, so keep going with the with the answer now, Steve. You've totally captivated me because my question we started with how did you end up getting to Iowa? And you said, Well, that's how I want to answer the question. So you're in Southern California, and your brother is lighting you up with your faith, and you're getting to a place where you're accepting Christ.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Yes, yeah. So I um at so I shared he he left a really good marketing job to go to school and ministry and and really supported himself through um construction and and kind of they managed an apartment complex and just you know, they went from comfortable to not very comfortable. And in my mindset of the time, you're in California, you know, it's money, it's cars, it's girls, it's it, it's it's uh uh entertainment, right? Going out and doing stuff, weekend warrior, and I'm like, he's going to study the Bible, you know, and it just seems sort of weird to me. Um, but at his graduation, that would have been in 1995, God really was tugging on my heart, and I I think it had to do with something that is in the heart of men, and that's mission, right? It's purpose. And while I had been following Christ for a couple years uh and wanted to know more about the Bible, you know, I was I was still kind of doing a uh uh but God had blessed me with a wonderful bride, and we'd actually dated for five years uh before we I I gave my life to the Lord, and and um after I did that, God just I I think he was waiting for that to allow her to be my bride because I married up like a lot of people, yeah, you know, yeah, and um I think you know she'd given her life to the Lord. I was a distraction, but uh before I had the honor of marrying her, uh God wanted me to get my life right. So really that was May in July at uh on at my my sister and brother-in-law's wedding. Uh and you know, I figured I'd have a couple hundred family members there, and so uh pre-arranged with my sister and brother-in-law, I had proposed uh at the uh at the reception on the mic in front of everybody. Thankfully, she said yes. Nice, very testimony about what Christ had been doing in my life before that. And um and so we we had gotten married in the interim. And at uh at his graduation, I started thinking maybe this, maybe this is something I'd be interested in. You know, I had a great job in insurance and uh a bright career ahead. Um but God started tugging on my heart. And so for a couple of years I thought about it, sort of looked for, loosely looked for a job that would work with the schedule. They they they intentionally, I believe, uh made it difficult with kind of traditional, you know, nine to five employment. Um school got over at 10, there was a good amount of homework, so you you kind of had to be all in on this particular program for kind of geared towards church planning. It's not a promise to be a pastor, you don't get a license or anything, you get a certificate, but you get a you know, I I went because I wanted to know Jesus more and I wanted to learn how to better share my faith and study and teach the Bible. And so interestingly, after a couple years of trying in my own strength to find something that worked, I was in Cuba. I went on a mission trip to Cuba in 1998, and uh God said to apply. I was like, wait, what? Apply to school of ministry. And so I applied, much to my surprise, I got accepted. And uh, but but you know, I had people well-meaning say just go to school, trust the Lord with with income and everything. And I just I didn't feel that was responsible. Um, I I felt like there had to be um, even if it was snug, had to be something there. We had two kids, we had one on the way, and uh so that was sort of a fleece for me, you know. If the Lord opened the door, even if it was snug, then then I would go. Yeah, and wouldn't you know it before three weeks before school started, he did. It was a friend of mine who had a small uh company. Um, you know, there was an element of faith involved because uh the company had to grow some, but he he gave me a base that that actually I thought it would cover. The Lord brought some surprises that uh stretched us for sure, but that's really part of the training, I believe. Um uh at least for me it was during the process. And so two years of school, just a great experience, so many hard things. Say again where you went to school. Uh Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa School of Ministry. Okay. Large what's that? Large school, small school. Well, intentionally relatively small. There's about 80 students a year that they accepted.

unknown 21:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Yeah, and so they a lot more apply, but but they, you know, partly because of what their focus was, which was uh, I mean, we had to get references from our secular employment and you know, friends. And family and stuff. And so okay. Well, that's part of the reason I thought, well, I'll apply, but I don't know if I'll get accepted.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

It's a vetted program. That's really nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

There's a lot of lot of guys that go through that don't plant churches, but um, and I I knew three guys who had graduated. Uh, two of them were absolutely uh persuaded that they were going to go plant churches. Uh, another one had said that they were gonna stay and serve where they were, and the exact opposite happened when they graduated. And so um I I went and said, I don't have plans. I'm gonna do whatever the Lord wants. And um, so interestingly, um school was very, very tight. God provided, but it was very tight, it was outside of my comfort zone, which was you know, the direct deposits uh uh a couple times a month, the 401, the great health benefits. So um the company had made some accommodations uh for me. Well, actually, I I left, worked for a friend uh in a small business for a year, and um uh uh uh that that got more difficult towards summer. So I went back to insurance on a contract basis for summer, and the Lord ended up uh working that out for the whole rest of the year um of school, the last year of school. By the time that uh I was getting close to graduating, the company said, you know, you're gonna have to go full time uh when you graduate. We we really don't do this, and uh, you know, there's other people that are are uh you know interested, so I really need you to go full time. I was a little bit disappointed, but also a little bit relieved. Um, and so interestingly, my my so I knew that was coming. My pastor had reached out and scheduled a meeting uh for a Wednesday night after uh church. Should I pause real quick and go put the dogs in the garage? Or is that too much?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

If it's bothering you, go ahead and do it. I can't hear anything.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

Oh, okay, okay, great. Yeah, so um I'll I'll kind of start that part afresh. So sure, I um uh I'd had a our pastor had scheduled a meeting after church one Wednesday night, and like I I was racking my brain as to what's this about. Um, so that was coming up, and then my employer uh we met uh just I know it's God's design, but that day, in one day, a Wednesday, um I had negotiated going back to insurance, got more money than I'd ever made in my life. And after two years of school of ministry, I was pretty excited about that. Um that night I went in to meet with our pastor, not knowing what what it was about. I was racking my brain, did I offend somebody, did I say something? Did I play his uh son in basketball that the weekend or a couple weeks before? I'm like, that I was like too rough, you know, like all these things, like what happened? And he asked me to come on staff. And so, and so keep in mind during the day, uh, job offer more money than I ever made in my life to job offer for my dream at less money than I ever made in my life, even when I started an insurance. And so, you know, my wife and I really sought the Lord, and we just felt that it was God's plan. And so, so uh we did. I ended up going on staff when I graduated from school of ministry in 2000. And, you know, if you would have asked me what my wildest dream was, it would have been to be on staff at our home church, but I never ever expected it, nor would I have. You know, I there was just so many other guys who had been there, you know, many years and just people I looked up to and respected. And so, um, but the Lord um had that for us, and so uh we we felt led and we did that. And they um Pastor Bob had me come on staff and uh lead uh a newly revamped youth ministry, start a college ministry, uh, and then just kind of other duties. My second year actually, the Lord blessed the church, you know. Bob we used to call him Calvary Chapel's best kept secret. He was a great Bible teacher, but the church wasn't huge by Southern California standards. Um, and uh but uh the Lord blessed was just a really went from I think 11,000 square feet looking for about 22, and the Lord gave us a 52,000 square foot building. And you know, he had great plans now, it's overflowing, but um but uh so all that to say year two, I was kind of a construction worker because we hire the contractors and the assistant pastors do everything that's that comes up along the way, so and I and I'm I'm not particularly handy in that regard, but but any any event um uh just loved it, you know. And um I remember, and this kind of leads up to one of the kind of what I was thinking of in terms of like courageous decision.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Um so that was 2000 and in 2003, uh the staff had gone to a pastor's conference in Southern California. We were going back that evening, and and uh some of the guys were bringing their wives. I was bringing Becky. So we were having a burger at this uh burger joint, I'll never forget it called Nolwood, super casual. Uh going to hear John Corson, who is a well-known uh Calvary pastor, and and um one of our favorites. And so just kind of talking. And I said, you know, church planning was so heavy on on my heart uh from really about you know 95 when I started thinking in terms of school and ministry. I said, But I I think I could just stay and love Bob, love the church. I think I could just be in a support role for the rest of my life, maybe. You know, and and and and Becky shared, I I just think God has something different. So we're like, oh wow, you know, and and and so we started praying, and long story short, the Lord, you know, we always knew that if we planted the church, it would be in the Des Moines area, you know, he had uh just revealed a number of uh things along the way, you know, we had become f sort of familiar through a friend that had planted a church here.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Uh and then somebody else from Southern California. Yeah, yeah. Because that's a because for a casual listen, Steve, that's a leap. When you're going to church in Southern California, you've gone to Bible school in Southern California, your insurance work was in Southern California, you were born and raised there. I mean, you're a California kid. And then you say, Well, we kind of always thought that we would start a church in the Des Moines area. That deserves a lot of explanation because okay, keep going. You just knew somebody who had started this church here. Was that it?

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Well, yes, my sister and brother-in-law had moved back here, so we had visited a few times. Okay, and you know, Calvary chapels were all over the place in Southern California. Um, the joke is a lot of the guys were surfers. I I can't surf, so it didn't really matter. That part didn't matter to me. But um uh so they were they were sort of big on the coasts. I mean, they're they're not well known here even even now, but um, with with the internet and stuff, some some are are are more well known, but um but you know, a lot of them were on the coasts, and that's just what what God had done. So our prayer was Lord, what you did there, you know. I don't know if you're familiar with the Jesus movement of the late 60s and 70s. Yeah, so Pastor Chuck Smith was kind of uh uh credited with with at least in Southern California, they they call it the Jesus movement. It was really a a move of the Holy Spirit throughout the nation, but um uh he was a big uh part of that in in the Southern California space, and that's that's where Calvary Chapel was was sort of birthed. And that's a whole nother amazing story.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

But you don't know Bill Thrall by chance, do you? Not familiar. He was a he was a teacher of mine in he was a part of the Jesus movement, but he was in Arizona at the same time that was going on in California.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

It was a yeah, and so that was that was you know, some years before, you know, I didn't get saved until 1993. So that was kind of the 60s and 70s, and um uh so a lot of it I know about like from history and from hearing firsthand stories and stuff, but uh just just the radical move, and the guys will tell you it's a radical move of the Holy Spirit, yeah, you know, um, and really our our distinctive like like what sort of makes us different is just verse by verse teaching through the entire Bible, right? I mean, uh, you know, we we like a lot of the churches, uh choose as the Lord leads, choose a different book. Um, some go Genesis to Revelation, and so um, you know, the Lord had been stirring in our heart to do that and to come. Uh we knew it would be Iowa uh if we did, and it's kind of a funny side story because when I was in school, there was a group out in Penora who had uh been listening to, I can't remember who it was, maybe Pastor Chuck on the radio or something, and they wanted to start a Calvary chapel. And so um uh we were sort of part of that conversation, and and you know, my comment was if if God calls us to Iowa, the smallest I could handle would be the metro. Like I'm not going to a small town, right? And the reason that's funny is because we moved to the country last year, so now we're not even in a small town, we're in the country, but I love Iowa, it's home. This is where my ashless will be tossed or whatever, but um, I'll be with the Lord, so it won't matter. But uh, no, yeah. So so God has changed our heart then. But but part of our vision now is really planting Bible teaching churches throughout the Midwest, you know, uh where because because that verse by verse teaching has just really changed my life, you know, as as we were were growing in in the Lord at Calvary Chapel, Placentia, which became East Anaheim and is and is still East Anaheim, we really felt that the two earmarks of of the church really emulated by Pastor Bob. And obviously we know it's the Holy Spirit, is the love and grace of God. And we really had just a passion and desire uh to bring that to the Midwest. And there's a lot of obviously churches doing that, but that style of ministry and that uh just passion for the Lord, just to share that with others, wherever it was, this is where um God had for us. So we started meeting that you know later on in the year in 2003 in our home in in Fullerton, Southern California. And a number of uh couples, families, uh individuals were meeting with us. And so uh what led to uh again, this isn't like heroic, you know, save the the city from the bad guys, which that's how what I think of as heroic um and courageous. But you know, I had um uh I was on staff at a church I really loved, and uh working for someone I I really loved, and uh with a team of people that I really loved, serving Jesus, who I really love. And uh, you know, I mentioned going on staff at like the least money ever made, you know, number of years later, three years now more comfortable. And so the Lord started speaking about moving, and the way Calvert Chapel plants churches is like you go, you get a job, and you start teaching the Bible. There's no big fund that you know what I mean, and and so like you got to know that you know that you know that you're called. And we were very committed to uh, you know, not only do I have to believe that, but my wife had to hear directly from the Lord and then big believer and you know, leadership of our church. Uh so I I talked with our our pastor and and and Bob and and uh the elders were were were supportive, meaning, yeah, we believe in you. Um and uh and so we we prayed and we felt led and and so we took that step, right? We sold our house in uh in Fullerton, California. We packed everything up and and and moved across the country. Part of part of the timing. How many kids do you have then? Zero. No, we had four. You had four then. So they were little, elder like, okay, here we go. Yeah, my oldest was going into second grade, and my youngest, which drove part of the timing, is he was born in 2003, so we knew we're not gonna go with a brand newborn. So we kind of set our eyes on on uh on 2004, and so was your wife excited about that? I mean, because you guys were both on board. She became excited, yeah. The Lord, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with Richie Fure. He used to be uh part Buffalo Springfield way back in the day. Okay. Um, pastor to Calvary Chapel in Colorado for many years, and obviously a great musician. He had a song, uh, Here I Am Lord, and uh the chorus kind of goes, Here I am, Lord, send me, Lord, uh, to out to spread your word around, and my wife would say, but not to Iowa. And so that's where it started. But God changed her heart. God changed her heart, and she became not only supportive, but 100% on board.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

And so uh we and a total of 17 of us um sold homes and and and packed up, and you brought 17 parishioners from Southern California to say we're gonna go do this in Iowa with you too. That's the model.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Yeah, and we we were blessed to have so many. Not not everybody's blessed like that, because there's no like, like I said, it's you know, there's not this active, you know, organization of sending, you know. It's like if you feel led and you know, your your pastor sees the those characteristics in you, uh, you know, it's it's like we'll pray for you, and and they do, you know, and uh, but God brought those people, you know, to come and and help help things get started. And uh it was a blessing. It's interesting in the the the fall, really kind of winter, which in Southern California it's kind of relative. Um but um you know, we I had talked to some friends who um were it was kind of like, hey, do you want to go if we go? And really not a bunch of buy-in or no like commitments. And so I was sharing with Bob, just kind of keeping him updated. He said, you know, you might just have to decide if the Lord's calling you or not. And you know, sometimes people want to be a part of something that's happening, and so what Becky and I ultimately decided by the Lord's leading was that we would move, and if the Lord brought a team, then we would plant a church in West Des Moines, and if the Lord didn't, then we would just get involved with the uh Calvary that was on the east side and you know, maybe have a midweek study in West Des Moines. And so the Lord brought a team. So we started meeting in September in Western Hills, uh at the Western Hills School there in West Des Moines, and uh have met at a few places uh uh over the years, uh just actually in February, we uh started in our the first building ever that we've owned. So all these years, you know, we've we've leased and rented, we were on EP True, I think for 11 years or something, we were you know, a long time, 11, 12 years. So we've we've had you know places that uh were ours, but not that we owned. And so um but but packing up and and and moving and um actually our our over the summer we we arrived at the end of June. So for a couple, two, two and a half months we met in our living room, believe it or not, there uh not far from Valley High School. And um and then in September had it lined up to start meeting at uh Western Hills.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

So you're a little self-effacing, Steve, with the most courageous thing you've ever done. Because this is all very courageous, but I see you I see you qualifying it as it's a faithful thing and it's just following the Lord. But right there is cre requires a great deal of courage. And through the Bible, you hear the Lord encouraging his servants, his prophets, certainly Moses, be courageous, be courageous, be courageous. And what's he do what's he encouraging them with is to walk in faith. Like, be courageous, trust me. Trust me, I've got you, be courageous, and that's exactly what you and your family and these wonderful people from Southern California did. Now, you plug your ears because I'm gonna do a little aside with our listeners right now. It's a little bit of a thing I'm gonna call shame on Jeff. I have known Steve for how long? I did not know, I did not know that he was a pastor, I did not know that he was from Southern California. I did not know this amazing story. What an opportunity to invest in people and learn more about somebody. Steve, I'm blown away. I mean, that is a faithful endeavor right there. And it's also what the what I heard them say, uh, what the missionary said, a small thing is just a small thing, but faithfulness with a small thing is a big thing. Or I guess in our terminology, for this purpose of this podcast, we'd say courage with a small thing is a big thing. And good for you. How's the church doing?

SPEAKER_03 41:38

It's doing well. You know, it's the strongest it's ever been. Um, we're we're we're so grateful. You know, like each of those steps, and I appreciate the encouragement and the kind words. Wow. Um, part of part of what I feel like the Lord, because like I shared at first when you first shared this, I thought, man, that's a cool podcast. It sounds awesome. And it'd be great to hear guys that have these great stories of courage, you know. But the Lord put it on my heart, like partly because I forgot what the topic was by the next time that you shared it. And but he he I remember being hesitant the first time, and I remember just a few weeks ago, the Lord said, You need to go up. Remember, I came up afterwards, you need to go talk to Jeff. You need to you need to get up and share your story. Yeah, and so you know, like to me, and I appreciate everything you said, and and I wouldn't I want to encourage people in taking steps of faith for the Lord. You know, uh when I was a youth pastor, um you know, we we did mission trips, and you know, Southern California, Mexico was was a a drive kind of a trip. We did that a lot, um uh overseas, across the country. Once we moved here, some of them came here and helped us. It was just great. But I was not the right person, and I'm still not the right person to ask, should I go do this? Because in Matthew chapter 28, Jesus said, Go and make disciples of the nations. Yeah. And so if it's on your heart, go do it, you know, because all of us really, everybody who's a believer, and I I think for those who perhaps aren't believers, um, it's still true that God has a call upon your life, you're just not walking in it, you know. Um, but God has mission for us. And when we are on mission for Jesus, when we're operating in the areas of our gifting, and when we're serving Him for His glory, that's where we do best. And I believe that with all my heart. You know, like there's there's struggles in life, but there's struggles in life whether you're following the Lord or not. Why not do it with Jesus? On your side. You know what I mean? And you know, it's interesting. God over the years has sort of honed in our our our vision. Um, you know, we we like to say that um you know we are the earmarks of our churches love, grace, and truth. You know, much of that is born out of our experience uh in Southern California, just love and grace. You know, I I like I said I grew up largely going to churches, but I I never really heard her. Maybe, maybe they were preaching and I wasn't listening. I have no idea, but it never really resonated in my heart how much God loves me and how much He is for me, His grace, and then increasingly um over the years becoming more and more just passionate about the truth. And I think in our culture today, people are uniquely looking for truth. What's what's right, what's true? And Jesus said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. And so uh we he has mission, he has call for us for us uniquely. Um we're passionate about strengthening marriages and families. I I I think that there is, there has been and continues to be uh just a direct assault from the enemy of our souls on families and specifically on Christian families.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

And there's good reason for that. That's really the bedrock of uh of society, of a healthy society, anyways. And so strengthening first and foremost the individual in their relationship with Jesus. And that strengthens marriages, right? It's been said that you know, if if husband and wife are both pursuing Christ, it's like a triangle. As you get closer to Jesus, you're automatically getting closer to one another. And so just that passion. You know, it um in late 2023. So uh now fast forward, that was about 20 years since we really start feeling started feeling the tug to actually move in Southern California. We had been um mentored as you know, or and I know you know Gary Rossberg. We've been mentored by Barb and Gary in marriage ministry and um through uh Impact I was Heroes and just very passionate about that. I I'd been uh uh still am a chaplain with the West Moyne Police Department, wonderful, and um just passionate about uh that space. And so that was you know, the Lord just orchestrated through many circumstances to be be trained specifically in that area, and partly through that, the Lord has given us uh a passion for marriage and family ministry, really to strengthen that. And that doesn't rule out individuals at all, right? Because we're all part of God's family, right? And so, so having having those those connections, but I had been started, you know, as I as I sensed, you know, like I'd always sort of felt I'm not gonna be in insurance when I'm 60. I'm 57 now. So so for years I've sort of had that goal. The Lord uh kind of like moving here, you know, uh uh the Lord likes to call us to to steps of faith. And so he he uh actually partly through cross-trainers and and uh some messages there, um God helped encourage and sort of clarify. I don't know if I remember um uh years some years ago, one of the books uh that we read by uh Pat Morley uh was uh the first chapter uh was about the the rat race. And you know, I had been realizing that um, you know, like I said, I knew my my time in insurance and I loved it. I had a great job, got it done exceedingly abundantly more than you can ask or imagine uh through my my my job. I loved it and got to lead a lot of people and helped really, really change a good sized part of the organization and loved it, you know, and but I really started sensing that the time is approaching. And as I was contemplating, you know, my my post-insurance, I I thought, you know, I've always been or for many years sort of passionate about the area of public policy and really to the extent that that matters to people, to families, it it it it impacts communities. And so my my heart in potentially being involved in, you know, I thought maybe like a local race, uh, you know, the the house or the senate where we were living at the time, I thought there uh was opportunity for a change. Um then they redistrict and then that need kind of went away. But anyways, um as I was praying that through, God said, and I remember this because it it it it stopped one pursuit and and just made our call even more clear. He said if you want to change the culture, you've got to change if you want to save the culture, you've got to save the family. If you want to save the families, you've got to save the marriages. And that was it. So so no more, you know, uh pondering the area of uh public policy or politics, but really uh can continuing, of course, the the training than just a focus on strengthening uh families. And I I I think you know, out of that is that sort of solidified our our our our call and our direction, you know, I I realized and and this was a blessing to me and in our family, really someone said cultural renewal starts at the dinner table, not in the halls of power. You know, and and studies have shown the impact of the simple simple thing like having dinner with your family every night. Much lower incidence of drug use in kids, much lower uh incidence of you know promiscuity and and just just the destructive lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

So it's just a hard stuff just show just showing up and just being there, just showing up, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Same end to that, brother. Yeah, and and that's why like I love our our our place now, Jeff, in life. And I think again, Gary and Bob do a great job of modeling it of being engaged grandparents, yeah. You know, I know we're just getting started, but I think the best is yet to come, you know. But um godly men, and we're all just doing our best. We know our shortcomings. That's one thing I I love about kind of the groups that we're involved in, is like it's just real. Man, none of us are perfect, you don't have to be perfect, you know just keep on showing up, keep on pursuing Christ. And so, you know, it's it's um you know that that's that's if we hadn't taken I remember hearing Pastor Chuck often would say, I never understood why the Lord did X. And now all these years later, I look back and I see, well, that makes sense because if if I didn't go through this, then I never would have done this. And if I hadn't learned this, then I wouldn't have been able to do that. And you know, now that I've got a few years under my belt, um I look back and I go, if it wasn't for some of those steps of faith in the past, I never could have taken some of the ones that that follow along. You know, and that's what I would I just want to encourage people in is like if if you feel God tugging on your heart, go for it. You know, go for it. Step out and and and and just just see what God. I remember talking to a friend of mine at a men's uh breakfast in Southern California. Um he ended up not coming. But I said, you know what, like sort of like Zacchaeus. I just want to get up in the tree. I just want to go to the Midwest and see what God will do. You know, and it hasn't always been easy. Some things have been really hard, but that's life, right? I mean, it's life in ministry, it's life out of ministry. But God is faithful, you know. And I I I look at even the last number of years, you know, where where you know, there's there's never been a time, you know, whether the church was going great or whether it was a challenge that I that I can honestly say I want it out. But there's times I think, like, I well, I know, like a lot of folks, you pray, Lord, am I still called? Because that's really what matters. Like, God, are you calling me? And and he always affirmed the call. And so you just stay the course, you know. You you put your hands to the plow and and and you keep on going.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

You have to wonder, you have to wonder sometimes. Did I hear correctly? Was this wrong? You know, there's always going to be that little seed, or like you said, okay, that was the call then, but now am I am I overripe bananas? Am I still doing what you want me to be doing? Or do I need to fluff the pillows or do something different? But that's always the tension with the call, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 53:55

It is, and and I think it's it's not bad, and it's perhaps even healthy. Yeah. Well, it's very healthy to keep checking in with the Lord, you know, but but really the goal is to to stay close to him every day. But a hundred percent couldn't agree more, you know, that uh you know, to to to to stay in tune with the Lord and like Lord, you know, should I do something different? Should I that doesn't mean like a big change of you know life, maybe sometimes. I mean for us. Yeah, yeah, for us it was.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Yeah, but well, I I was gonna ask you the question. We're we're getting close to wrapping up here, Steve. And this is just this is not what I expected from this. I don't know what I expected walking into this interview today, but this has been special and it's been so encouraging to me in such a personal way, you know, just telling your story about where you came from and listening to the Lord, and you do it so casually because you were you were having the quintessential, the normal family kind of churchianity experience growing up, where it was kind of okay, but it didn't really matter a whole lot, you know, but it wasn't bad, you know, etc. And your family's a bunch of good people and everybody's doing their own thing, and then you're going along and you're living life and you're making bad decisions, and may you probably sprinkled a couple of good decisions in there somewhere, but then you got but then you got whammy slammed and you decided to pay attention to that, yeah. And and you just followed. And I was gonna ask you the question because you get this a lot. How do you hear the voice of God? How do you know? But I don't think I want to ask you that question because I think I I think people know, I think people get that feeling, and I think what they do instead is they say, uh, I'm not sure that that's gonna be the most comfortable thing for me to do. Or I'm not I'm really enjoying selling insurance now, and I'm making bank, and I do want a big car, and I do like my office window looking out on the ocean, and everything's pretty cool here right now. So why rock, you know, that sort of thing? And I heard somebody say um recently if you're worried about something being with you in heaven, like are you gonna be married in heaven? You know, you're still gonna be able to have intimacy with your wife and all of that kind of stuff. Is your dog gonna be in heaven with you? Are you gonna have your favorite car, your favorite house? Whatever that is, if if it takes that to make heaven perfect, you're gonna have that. But if that's not gonna be in heaven with you, I promise you it's gonna be better. It's gonna be way better. And I and I think that's what the call is like too, where people sit and they go, I know the Lord is calling me to go to Des Moines, but I'm not sure I want to do it. If you can practice the courage that you and your wife practiced and follow the Lord, it's always gonna be better. And I'm not talking about prosperity gospel. You know, in this life you're gonna have trouble. I'm talking about the fulfilling thing that happens to you when that tuning fork goes off and you know that you're walking in God's will for your life. That is the best thing. That is the best life, and that happens when you follow Him. So speak a little bit more to that. Do you know what I mean? I do you agree with me that you feel like people can hear the voice of God, they know.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Yeah, I I think um some things are are are obvious, you know. Um you don't need to pray about this, it's just an extreme example, but should I go rob a bank because I'm short on cash? Yeah, obviously, you know, some things are are obvious. Right. Right. And so, but when you get to like a choice between two seemingly good things, you know, um, I think that that God He He speaks to our sometimes He gives us choices, right? I mean, we always have a choice. I mean, I but like sometimes it might not seem blatantly obvious, but I think God is speaking something to our heart. And the question is, are we going to step out in faith? You know, sometimes people talk about faith being like blind faith. Like, I I believe in God by faith. I don't believe in God because of faith. I believe in God because of the evidence. It's overwhelming. I mean, the existence of God to me, those I mean, I love having those conversations because the evidence is overwhelmingly uh in just the reality that God exists. Faith, true faith, is stepping out based upon what he says. And and the most obvious way to see that is in his word. The word is the primary way that God speaks to us. If he speaks to our heart, it's going to be in line with his word. And so the principles are there. So sometimes there might be a biblical principle that makes it more obvious for us. But but I think the the difficulty comes when the fact that I don't know the outcome. That's where the faith comes in.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

You know, and and I like to know the outcome. You know, the word says it, you know, his word is a uh a light into our path and a lamp unto our feet. You know, like he he really shows us the next step very often, and sometimes just even a small step, but but you've got to take it, you know, and and if we don't take it, we never find out. One one little, this isn't in the Bible, but one thing that drove um, you know, at least part of our our decision to move is something I heard somewhere. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always be what you've always been. And and that may not be a bad thing, you know what I mean. Like things are going like you said, cut things are comfortable, making good money, you know, like this, or like that, whatever. But like when when God calls us to mission, and he has, I believe with all my heart, he has a mission for everybody, he has gifts for everybody, gifts to be used for the glory of his kingdom. When we're operating in that space, that's where we do the best. You know, that that's that's where we feel the most fulfilled. You know, Jesus talked about if you want to, those who live to try to find their life, like find happiness, discover happiness in and of ourselves, right? Lose our life. But but if you deny yourself for the sake of the gospel, that's where you find life, right? Where where you you you put off your own fears, your own doubts, you put on courage. It's a decision. I put on courage. Yeah. And I step out and trusting God in what he has for my life, that's where I thrive. That doesn't mean everything's easy because it's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

So well put. So as Christians, we know that everybody that we come into contact with is going to live forever.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

In one place or the next.

unknown 1:01:04

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Yes. There, yeah, everybody's gonna live forever. And there's this verse in Hebrews 9:27, just as a man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment. So we do, you know, and you can fire and brimstone that all you want, but that's what God said. That's in the canon, that's in the book. And what it says is that that we're gonna die once and we're gonna face judgment. So we're gonna give an account for what we did. And and Steve, my knees knock because I don't want to get to the other side and be in glory with Jesus, with my wonderful creator, and realize that I left so much on the table. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Yeah, that it could have been.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

And that's not a that's not a prideful, greedy kind of a thing. It's just I it in the span of eternity, this lifespan is so small. Don't we all want to let ourselves on fire to the glory of God, you know, while we're here? Yes, yeah, they're encouraged, and that's what you and your wife did. That's what you and your wife are doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Well, I appreciate the kind words, and that's you know, God just put it on my heart to get on and and and talk about that, you know, and and hopefully, not to say wow, but like hopefully to encourage others, because I think the time is short, right? I I you you look at the world and you look at the way things are going, and people need the truth, they need Christ. And you know, we we have to step out of our comfort zones. It's not scriptural, but it's I think it's a good uh uh quote I read recently comfort is the worst addiction. No, you know, and I I think you know, a lot of people talk about a lot of different addictions, but this idea of being comfortable in the military has a phrase get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I I I share so much of my life I've been living out of my comfort zone, but I wouldn't change it. And I'm grateful to the Lord, so grateful to the Lord. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Okay. Well, I don't want to, but we're gonna leave it there for now, Mr. Freeman. I I hope to have you back again. But Steve Freeman, uh mighty man of God, man of great courage, man that is an example of how we can all walk by faith. Thank you so much for sharing your story, and thank you for being my friend, and thank you for being a part of this program today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

You're too kind, Jeff. Thank you for your kind words, and thank you very much for having me on. It means a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Oh, before I let you go, I do want to know this for people that are listening and that are local. Yeah, tell me where your church meets and when it meets.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

Oh, yeah, good question. Uh Sundays at 10 a.m. And we are in Clive 9051 Swanson Boulevard. So just uh east of, or excuse me, just west of 86th Street. And you can also find us online at cclivinghope.com. CC for Calvary Chapel. So cclivinghope.com. Yeah, I'd love to see people out there.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Okay, wonderful. Well, go see go see Steve and interact with the congregation and go get some of this on you because you need it. We all need it. Thank you, Steve.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

Praise God. Thanks, Jeff. God bless you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Thank you for joining us today on Courageous. If you'd like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics, please visit our home on the web at Crossroads Apologetics.org. Would you or someone you know like to be featured on Courageous? Send us an email at info at Crossroads Apologetics.com or info at crossroadsapologetics.org telling us about the most courageous thing you've ever done.