Phil Suess and the Big Ten Mindset for Life

In this episode of Courageous Crossroads, Jeff Johnson sits down with longtime friend and respected business leader Phil Suess for a thoughtful conversation about resilience, leadership, and the courage to step beyond one’s comfort zone. Phil shares how losing his position in a family business at age 59 forced him to confront uncertainty, reject a victim mentality, and envision a new chapter in which his decades of experience could continue serving others. A former University of Iowa quarterback, Phil draws on lessons learned from football, business, marriage, and fatherhood to explain why courage requires focus, personal responsibility, and the ability to see yourself succeeding before the outcome is certain. Raised in the Midwest, Phil earned his business degree from the University of Iowa, built a successful 31-year career in the construction industry, and now applies his leadership experience in a new business role while
mentoring others through seasons of professional and personal transition.

Thank you for listening! We hope you feel inspired and encouraged by our conversation today. If you did, be sure to share this episode with others.

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See you in the next episode! Be blessed!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Welcome to Courageous by Crossroads Apologetics. A look into what motivates us to step out in courage and the everyday bravery of men and women like you. In each episode, we hear a personal story of bravery centered around this question: What's the most courageous thing you've ever done? And now your host, founder of Crossroads Apologetics, Jeff Johnson.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Hey everybody, it's Jeff. Welcome back to another edition of the Courageous Crossroads Podcast. I have got a dear friend of mine up next, Phil Seuss. Phil and I had the opportunity to sit next to each other in a business forum for a number of years, and I learned so much from him. And I wasn't going to let him get away when uh he graduated out of the forum. So he and I have stayed connected, as have several people that have been in that forum stayed connected. And uh I had a wonderful time sitting down with him and catching up a little bit and specifically picking his brain on this topic of courage, and you're gonna absolutely love what Phil has to say. So without further ado, here is my friend Phil. Well, I really appreciate you doing this, everybody. This is my dear friend Phil Seuss that has come on the courageous crossroads. Phil, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

I'm doing great, thank you, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

It's such a pleasure to have you on. You know, you have some people in your life that you that you go way back with. And Phil and I were in a forum together for a number of years, and this guy poured so much into me that um it's really been a blessing. So I was tickled to have you come on. I'm glad that you agreed to be interviewed, Phil. It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I I think our YPO experience has you know has been so beneficial for me in how how we make um how we kind of come together semi-randomly and we become lifelong friends.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

And catch right back up where we were.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

And just catch right back up. We could be apart for five years and then all of a sudden, boom, you know, we're right there and laughing about you know different jokes and things like that. And you know, it's it's uh it's really cool. It's really cool, it's really fun to connect reconnect again, Jeff, with you.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I agree. And the last time we caught up with each other was out on the golf course. Do you want to tell the listeners who's the better golfer, Phil? Or should we leave that off?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Or oh no, I you know, I don't hold any pride there or any anything like that. Yet there isn't anybody that hits the ball further than you. And uh, you know, that that comes from really, really good eye hand coordination, and that's what that's exactly what you have.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

And a blow of lasagna, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

And a lasagna, that's right. Just easy back, easy through, you know, it's all it's all good.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah, wonderful. Well, put your um for listeners, forgive me. I it is hot here in my studio as I'm recording this. So I'm glad that this is audio only and you're you don't have to suffer through watching me dab my forehead. It's like a hundred, it's like uh 96 degrees outside, and the heat index is 117. And I've got an AC that's not quite keeping up today. It is just red hot. Oh my gosh. It's cool where you're at, isn't it, Phil?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Uh Cedar Rapids Eye. Well, we got the same stuff that you do in uh are you in Des Moines?

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, yeah. It's it's uh the upper Midwest here is just roasting.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

It's miserable. Well, um, Phil, we talk about courage here on the Courageous Crossroads podcast, and we come down to the one question: what's the most courageous thing you've ever done? And I'm not gonna ask you that just yet, but working our way up to that. I got a couple other questions for you. The first is who are you? Where are you from? Who are your people? Give me a give me a five-minute elevator speech on Phil Seuss to catch people up with who it is I'm talking to.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

You know, I've uh I'm a Midwestern born Chicago, raised uh uh grade school in Kansas City, Des Moines, Des Moines High School, Dowling, actually, and then uh played football and and got a business degree up at the University of Iowa. Uh met my wife there. We moved to Cedar Rapids. We have uh three, three beautiful children, and they're married and they got grandkids. And um, I've always been a business person, and I'm in my second business now where um uh I think I I'm using my leadership skills at at the best right now. And uh um yeah, it's been a great, it's been a great journey. It's been a great journey, great, great experience at Iowa, a lot of life lessons there. And uh, you know, I've been able to apply those lessons to a lot of life, whether it's working with our kids, working with our wives, or working with uh uh uh business associates, you know, people that that work in the business. So um I think that's where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Phil's being pretty complimentary to me about the the golf stuff. Phil holds his own on the golf course because you're an athlete, you've got great eye hand coordination and all of that kind of stuff. So, along with being a great businessman, you are a great athlete. What position did you play for the Hawkeyes, Phil?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I was a quarterback, so I was a quarterback out of Dowling and tall, stringy kind of guy, 6'5, 165-pound, all-state quarterback for the Dowling Maroons, and Bob Cummings gave uh gave me and Jim Swift a scholarship. We were both Jim Swift and I were on the same team. Went up to Iowa. Jim started and played played a lot sooner than I did. Took me four years to to get a starting role. Jim, Jim was a starter as a I think he started his freshman year. And uh uh again, you know, separate but the same type of experiences and you know, life, lifelong friends. You you work, you compete, you go to school with uh people that you meet in college, and then uh um you know, you still you still have all those relationships plus all the things you learned. And uh that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Is um I'm always curious from people that have experienced you know that level of athletic endeavor is is are your business pursuits more difficult or your athletic endeavors more difficult? What's the hardest harder hill to climb?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

You know what's funny is uh I think I mean obviously the physical strain of playing football or basketball or baseball, whatever that is, is you know, obviously 24-7 pounding on your brain. But in business, uh, you know, it's not the physical strain. And and you don't get you in business, you don't get instantaneous feedback. So we would play a game on Saturday and we'd watch film on Sunday and you get you get graded, and then the next week you go you go work on it, and you you don't have that kind of feedback system in business. Uh you know, you can have an interaction with someone and then you sit back and you say, Well, how'd that go? You know, um, you can you can do some of that, but you might work on a deal that takes two years to close. Or, you know, I I remember your business about you know uh finding projects and working on uh giant gates and things like that. And you know, you could work on a you can work on a bid and may not get it, you know, spend a lot of time and resources, uh, you know, though those are yeah, you don't get the instantaneous feedback in business like you do in sports.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Might be a little bit tougher than in business.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

In certain in so in certain ways, yeah. I don't have to worry about my knees or shoulders or Terry Tate, the linebacker, coming in clobbering me in the office. You know, we we laugh at that, but you know, that's that's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Was there a particular I'll ask you a little micro topic here. Was there a particular courageous moment that you experienced as an athlete at the university?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

You know, it here, I'll I'll give you I'll give you the the best example I can give that continues with me forever, and however, and I share that with as many people as possible. And this was uh so um my fourth year, Hayden Fry just arrived at Iowa, and we're having uh uh springtime scrimmage, which is spring football, and uh at the beginning of spring football, I got named the number one quarterback, and but I had like eight scrimmages to you know blow it, and uh um there was just this one play, and I I can't remember what scrimmage it was. There was just this one play that you know I was just a little slow on, and Hayden Frey came over and he got he got he got right in my face. And he says, Phil, he says, you can't play Big Ten football if you don't make that play. And all of a sudden, you know, I said, Well, we're gonna run the play again, and all of a sudden I ran the play and I did it on time, and you know, it required certain footwork and everything like that. Um I'm a lefty, so everything's backwards. And you know, I thought, you know, Hayden wasn't speaking Greek to me. He was just like, you know, you you gotta do this, you can do this. And it's like, okay, and there I go. And yeah, so the the point, the point is, the point of the story is you have to visualize, you have to visualize anything that you're gonna do. You get you got to project yourself into that role that you're gonna you you are going to do it. And uh and and in that circumstance, I you know, I wasn't I wasn't in a prize fight, right? It had nothing to do with beating someone up, but it had everything to do with controlling all the emotions and all the physical movements that I had that you know culminated in the execution of this play. And you know, if you don't see yourself walking into a room full of people and and you could be a little bit nervous, and you know, it's it's uh uh you know, I got something important to say to people here, and let's, you know, let's get going. And you know, you you exude that confidence onto people is like, hey, you know, I could listen to this guy, and uh, and in that in that circumstance, it's like, okay, you could, I, I'm, I want to play Big Ten football and never played Big Ten football either. And I'm gonna I'm gonna play Big Ten football. And so I made the play.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

I love that. That's great, Phil. That's a perfect example, which leads leads perfectly into my next question. How do you define courage? What's the Phil Seuss definition for courage?

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You know, I I think it's you know, at its simplest form is is just kind of extending yourself out of your comfort zone. I think that I think that's it. I think that's the ability to see yourself in in maybe something that you hadn't done before. Okay. And uh you may not have perfect confidence, you may not even had feedback on having done it before, but you know, you can see yourself doing it. And uh I think that's what helps us get there. When I say get there, get to the other side of uh that activity that you're trying to uh trying to do or you know persuade someone or communicate with someone, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

So you would not associate courage necessarily with comfort, everything's just laz affaires, pretty peaceful going down the road.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I wouldn't associate I wouldn't associate it with comfort, correct?

SPEAKER_02 12:35

Yeah, yeah. Who represents courage to you? Do you have examples in your life? It could be a historical figure, it could be somebody in your family or somebody in popular culture.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

I mean popular culture. Let's look at uh you know, let's look at Caitlin Clark for a second. You know, that's top of mind. That's top of mind. You got a 24-year-old woman, you know, pretty much, pretty much Iowa born and raised. And you know, she's she's out in the world projecting herself and uh, you know, projecting yourself and communicating in in some pretty gosh darn positive ways. And then if you watch the social media a little bit, you know, uh uh President Barack Obama greets her and says, You keep that up, you don't listen to that other stuff, you know. And his his recollection was he didn't become famous until he was 45. So he had he had some maturity before you know he got into the public eye. You know, Caitlin Clark's been in the public eye since she was 20. And uh he comes over, puts his arm around her, and you know, talks about that and gives her a you know, hey, you know, you're doing great, you know, keep keep pumping away. And uh I mean that's some you know that's some immediate, immediate feedback right right in front of our face right now. You can see it.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I think that's a great example, Phil.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

You know, carry, carry a good message, you know, carry a good message because there's lots of people complaining about everything. You know, that's that's the national pastime.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Well, listen to me, starting off this podcast complaining about how hot it is here in my studio. I mean, I'm I'm the worst one, and I think you're right. I think I think Caitlin's courage is probably demonstrated with how much we don't hear her complain about anything other than you know, she's just trying to put a positive message forward. So I think you're right on the money there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

She could probably complain a little less to the refs, but you know what, if she's gotta get suspended a couple times, and you know, that's part of the part of the growing up process. You know, it's uh uh you know, maybe there's some tough lessons out ahead of her yet to yet to fulfill. But uh, you know, at the moment she's a she's a pretty positive influence.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Yeah, she sure is. Okay, I think our I think our table's set here, Phil. I'm gonna ask you the question, Phil Seuss, what's the most courageous thing you've ever done?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

You know, I thought I thought about that, and uh I'm gonna I'm gonna go to I was 59 years old, and I got told by my brother-in-law that I had to go find another job. I couldn't work at the family business. And that was pretty pretty crushing. You you you and I crossed paths at that time, and uh our friend, our friend uh Jim Von Maher had called out and said, Hey, let's let's help our friend Phil. And uh and that was a that was a pretty awesome, that was a pretty awesome thing where where our us us guys got together and and uh um actually we went out and played golf. Right. You know, burn off a little energy. But but I thought but I thought about that, you know, the the um, you know, I've been thinking about since I got the invitation from your assistant, and you know, courageous. It's like, well, I haven't done anything in my life that's been life-threatening, uh, haven't gone to war, uh, haven't carried a gun. Um, I'm not in that kind of police work or anything like that. And I haven't uh haven't saved anybody's life, you know, by putting myself in danger. So what what else? You know, we had kids, had kids, we did all kinds of business. Uh you know, I was in the construction business for 31 years, and uh um unfortunately we I went to two funerals, but I don't think that's courageous. It's um uh you know, you're the representative of the company and you got to go to those things. And you know, I cried when I talked to those mothers, but uh um I think losing a job at 59 was was um I wasn't afraid, but I did get out of my comfort zone and I, you know, I hit the ground running, but it was that was not a pleasant period.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

And was that a shock to you when that happened?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yes, it was. It was uh um again, very, very disappointing. Um thought, you know, with as with any company, right? With any company, you always have changes in leadership, right? And when you know, founders and elders move on, and so you always have the young folks move in, and um, you know, there's a there's kind of a right way, there's like a hundred right ways to do it and a hundred bad ways to do it. And I feel like we checked all the boxes about how to do it badly, and uh so the the build-up to that was um the build-up to that was kind of quite unnerving as well.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

The um the courageous piece of that is being able to look that thing in the face and behave appropriately, or be able to look that thing in the face and walk right through it, or what? Give me more description of that.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Uh you know, it was it was going back to uh you can't play Big Ten football if you don't make that play. And so it was like, well, you know, I could I could minimize all 31 years of experience and feel badly for myself and feel like I'm the victim and woe was me, and oh my god, what am I gonna do? Or or the flip side of it is, you know, I've I've been a successful business person, I've done these things for different people, uh, I can do it for others. And so that was, you know, I developed a little tagline. My tagline, you know, when I was, you know, reaching out and making contacts to my to my friends and business associates and everything like that. My tagline was I'm looking for management teams in transition. So I wasn't picking up the phone and calling Jeff Johnson and say, hey, you know any jobs around? That I mean, that that was rather, you know, that just that just wasn't me. But what was me was, you know, I work and interact with people. And like I said, my tagline was management teams in transition. So it could be, you know, so-and-so is retiring out, and I need I need someone to fill a role, or we're starting a new business, and you know, you've got the background and experience to fit this role. And uh, you know, so I I could have I could have conversations in a way that number one, weren't threatening to the people I was talking to, right? I didn't want their job. You know, I'm looking for management teams who are in transition, so bankers, accountants, you know, lawyers, you know, that that kind of expands the expands the horizon a little bit. And so I had to project myself into um what does success look like instead of being a victim.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

And you know, yeah, it's I mean, it's just like this is you're gonna go left or you're gonna go right. It's it's to me, it's that black and white. And hopefully I'm left-handed, so I went to the left side. That was the positive side.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

When I did, when I did a little, you're reminding me of this, Phil. So if I may put this in context, you're I did a little flight training and worked my way up to get a flight instructor's license. I only taught one guy how to fly, and then I kind of got out of that business and got into something else. But anyway, when you're learning those tools, you realize that people, people that you are teaching, okay, up in an airplane in a little tiny cockpit, just the two of you, when they get into an uncomfortable situation like a stall, they do one of two things. Either they become oblivious to what's going on around you and they cannot focus at all. And it's almost a complete irrational response to, you know, look how lovely everything is, and why is everything tumbling around? You know, that sort of thing. Or all of their senses get sharpened and they get ultra focused and they do what they need to do much quicker, much faster, with much more accuracy to get that plane straightened out. And it's interesting to watch people because there are two different kinds of people, you know, they just go, they go one way or the other. And what you're describing to me is being confronted with a situation that really surprised you, that meant your livelihood, and you focused instead of going la la la la la, you know, you focused. And to me, that is a real definition of courage. Am I am I saying that correctly?

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Well, I yeah, I would I would agree. And and yeah, right again, courage is not life or death, but courage is facing something terribly uncomfortable about your. yourself right and and and and you know quickly recognizing i you know you said the word focus i i agree there there's an extreme amount of focus that occurs and uh um again is it is it left or is it right is it one or a zero and uh um the focus is you know i i know a little bit about flying you know get your eyes on your get your eyes on your uh uh instruments okay and and you have to divorce yourself from what what you're feeling okay and and you know um you know find a way to get that that plane to uh level out and that happens you get the feedback right away you know you got the feedback like oh my god my stomach's upset you know my eyes are going crazy uh you know whatever that is when you're tumbling in a in a particular way but uh um you know losing your job is was kind of uh um kind of extended kind of thing it's like you do you do you know you you gotta get your stuff back together there is a focus I I agree with that would you have identified yourself as a courageous person before you got fired I mean did you feel like you had that in you because you had the football thing already but I don't know uh no I don't I I I I think of myself if I'm totally self-aware I think of myself as um having leadership characteristics and and you know it's it's you are taking care of yourself but you're also thinking about others and uh that's what you know my that's my opinion of leadership and and uh um you know you're leading you're leading you know people or a business or a group of people and uh or a family right and uh or you know or a group of spouses or uh you know I'm I'm uh now I don't want to say influence those folks but it's it's uh um here let's let's let's go to this let's go to this concept let's talk about this concept let's you know let's move you know let's move in this path that uh you know everyone can kind of sink their teeth into yeah um what's it do to you when you go through something like that because how many years ago was that that was eight 2017 so nine years nine years ago so how long did it take for you to I feel I don't want to feel like I'd use a colloquial term like land on your feet that's not really but you know what I mean to get right with yourself to get well that that so the the event happened in July and then by the following February and March I was re restarting a new role with the new company. So you know so when that so the question is when you go through something like that and you have a courageous act does that embolden you I mean does that put wind in your sails I would imagine you know once you came on board with that new company you were feeling a certain amount of I can withstand anything is that accurate I I can withstand anything and then the other the other aspect is someone else values me. So again think of the victim the victim's gonna sit there and say uh uh uh you know I can't hold a job I can't earn the same money I used to earn uh I can't uh I can't do this I can't do that nobody likes me I can't you know I'm not relevant or or you know by by by me joining this role I I was relevant and I was game for uh I was game for you know learning a new role and so it's a little bit like hey I you know I I get a chance to start a new role and I'm learning new things and you know what what past experiences and knowledge can I apply and so that was you know that was immediately beneficial. I'm pretty good with contracts I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty good with contracts and in this particular business we have contracts all over the place we have contracts with landlords we have contracts with banks we have contracts with our customers and uh um so that's you know I kind of picked up where I left off in in that in that respect.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

It's it's impressive Phil and this is the part where you know our listeners are just going to have to take a drink of their coffee or lower the volume or whatever because I'm gonna slobber on you a little bit. You know I'm blessed to have these wonderful men around me that represent real excellence. And some of them you can look at the decimal point you can look at the business and that that's it. But I think it's when things happen to you that are that are detrimental or that are a little bit dangerous that are a little bit you know out of the blue and then to see how you walk through it that's when you see the real character in somebody and that's when you really know what you've got and I saw you walk through that Phil and I'm telling you it it got on me to such an extent that I felt like I had confidence after I saw you go through well Phil can do this. You know then I can do this too. So I'll stop slobbering on you there but I'll put it back to you and say do you feel like courage is contagious like that it happened to me because I I I was a recipient of your good act.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Let me just say this while okay so thank you very much that's a lovely comment compliment and I and I certainly appreciate it. I think through our YPO meetings and our group togetherness and uh um you know I feel the same way of of all of our members and and you as well because I connected with you about a family business and and and where you were at and the things that you were doing and uh um I you know I think there's um I I I think you've gone through a lot of courageous events that have uh have guided you to this point in your life just like me and uh um and it and it can be inspiring. I think there is uh it is catching and uh uh you know if we were all having a pity party you can see where that goes that goes down the toilet but right generally speaking you know whether it be um you know I'll I'll say this very close and personal relationships with our spouses our close and personal relationships with our children and having the effect that they that we do and um I and I I'll just I'll go off on another tangent Mary and I my wife's name is Mary we've been very very very lucky our children are uh strong and able-bodied and now they're currently paying taxes so they're taxpaying adults and and uh um you know we're we were blessed we were lucky that those kids sort of followed our steps our footsteps and uh you know we didn't have any kids luckily you know that that got caught up in drugs or you know god forbid you know families that um families that have to wrestle that you know that's that's courage you know where you know where your your son or daughter is is uh you know not is outside the boundary of of what you and your wife might find comforting or comfortable and so we've been very very lucky in that respect but back to our I'll bring it back to our YPO uh team members um yeah courage courage leadership responsibility is contagious and it does rub off and um you know that's the that's the nature of uh passing things on amen to that and yeah to the absolutely to that end I mean you're walking around Phil equipped with something I I've shared this many times on this um podcast that I'm a recovering person and we say in the recovery community that we don't regret the things of the past nor do we wish to repeat them but we comprehend the word serenity and we've come to no peace.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

So it's kind of like a Ben Franklin version of the stuff that doesn't kill you makes you stronger but it really but it really does and you've experienced something that other people maybe necessarily won't ever have to go through but you can speak very clearly about it.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Have you have you run into people that were facing the same situation or have gone through the same situation that you've gone through uh just a handful of times and uh you know it's a bit it's I I thought of uh you know my comments to those people were you know I was trying to take the curse off of you you're not the victim. So you know the first thing is is you know whatever skills you have you know they are they are yours and and not to be taken away by anybody else. And then the other part was uh uh not putting the pressure on yourself of uh well I got to get a job let me get somebody on the phone hey you got a job for me and I and I shared that uh my tagline in that I was looking for businesses with changes uh uh changes going on in management and that and and you know what what what and what that meant was is that I was a person that could fit in a group of people that uh you know whatever changes were going on in that business I could fit in that group I can help and so think of your role this was now the the advice that I give to the other folks think of your role as how you can help and uh uh you know rather than you know the X's and O's I can I can write so much code I could you know I can jump so high I can you know yada yada yada no it's how much how much you can help and and you're looking for those kinds of opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah I think that's very good Phil you're such a clear thinker I mean your perspective on what you went through has got to be so valuable for everybody that you coach and everybody that you consult with going forward.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

What would you say to somebody who's facing the same thing I mean you just said it right there but how would you coach and encourage somebody would it be just that think about where you can help the the the thing that Hayden Fry brought to my attention was is that you gotta you got to see yourself as a Big Ten quarterback. You could be you could be a great athlete you could run fast and jump high and you know uh run people over and everything like that but you have to project yourself into the role that you want to be in and you have to see yourself you have to see yourself doing that. Um I I I now as an older person now still working uh I think my role is more about mentoring and um and I don't say things like well you got to get your mind in the right you got to get in your right frame of mind that's like that's worthless. But you got to you got to see yourself doing the thing right you got to you got to see yourself if if it's athletics you got to see yourself running like the wind and throwing the ball a mile and making the difficult catch. But most of us aren't athletes like that. We're all in business or some types of business and you got to be able to see yourself doing that role. And well what is that you know do you know enough about the role right that you're applying for okay and uh you know taking yourself out of this role that that I'm leaving this job for whatever reason and you have to project yourself into this other role well if you don't know what this other role is how can you be helpful how can you convince someone that you're of value and uh um so the my point is is you you know mentally seeing yourself as the as uh you know for me I was a CFO COO and and president uh you know working working with groups of people and helping helping identify you know let's let's get let's focus here let's get on to the thing that's gonna help us go to the next step so to speak well what's the next step well you got to put that in words and you got to put that in words in your brain and then you know once you figure out those words in your brain then your body and mind and actions and speech can model that's we always say that on the we're bringing it back to golf again Phil I always tell my kids the last thing you think about before you hit that ball is what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

You got to visualize yourself hitting it right down the you know you're talking about the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah it's it's very good Phil um do you think last question then I'll let you go I promise do you think we're living in a world where uh courage is lacking or is it at a premium and why see I stumped you I don't think it's I don't think so I'm answering the question in the negative I don't think it's a premium I do think it's okay so here's another negative I think it is lacking um um why do I say that I think uh um I think it's I think it's easy to complain I think it's I think it's incredibly easy to complain and um um and and I've said this in other venues it's kind of like the national pastime and but you know at at some point someone has to say so this is where the courage comes in courage slash leadership hey I got a better idea let's work on this and uh you know instead of you know the villain it's point at you know so and so they're they're the ones that are responsible for your for your um um lot in life so to speak yeah it's like oh you made you you are where you are because you've chosen to be there and you know you've made conscious decisions along the way to you know I'm gonna get this job and I'm gonna I'm gonna um I'm gonna get married this way and I've got it uh things can only go this way so you know we are where we are because we've chosen to be there and um so if it's if the if the motivation comes from within to you know put yourself in a particular position the motivation also can be hey I can change this too so you gotta you got to get on the other side of the argument there and say you know I I want to bring about change I want to bring about positive change and you know well what is that thing you know what is that you know whether it's um running the Fed right or running the gas station down the at the end of the street or I'm in the warehousing business you know running running that running that facility and taking care of customers you know taking care of customer needs and uh um is our you know is our is our are are we lacking or I I I just still I gotta stay away from the negative side I don't think we're lacking we're we're we need to challenge ourselves perfect that's perfect Phil and per your definition doing something that's uh uncomfortable you know people are pursuing their comfort all the time so you be the one that doesn't complain you be the one that stares discomfort in the face and pushes right past it and then you be the unique one that's demonstrating courage and watch that be contagious and get all over the rest of your teammates see you should you should definitely be in a position of leadership Phil I see exactly why God has put you where he's put you so Phil Seuss uh dear friend of mine man of great courage thank you so much for being on the show today Phil great Jeff thank you very much it's been a lot of fun it's been great we'll do it again on the golf course for sure hell yeah thank you for joining us today on Courageous if you'd like to hear more about the work and ministry being done at Crossroads Apologetics please visit our home on the web at Crossroadsapologetics dot org.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

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