Does having a different father than your siblings shape one's sense of identity and family bonds? How is your outlook on fatherhood impacted by not knowing your own?
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Host Jamie Truman sits down with her brother, Michael Callahan, in this episode to get answers to these questions and more. He shares what it was like growing up with a different father from his siblings, navigating complicated family dynamics and multiple stepfathers.
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In a heartfelt conversation, Michael opens up about the loss of his biological father at a young age — before he ever got a chance to know him. He also talks about entering the unknown world of fatherhood after not wanting to take on the role of parent.
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Purchase Vanishing Fathers
100% of the proceeds go to charity that help at-risk youths
Connect with Jamie at Truman Charities:
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Email: info@trumancharities.com
This episode was post produced by Podcast Boutique https://podcastboutique.com/
Does having a different father than your siblings shape one's sense of identity and family bonds? How is your outlook on fatherhood impacted by not knowing your own?
-
Host Jamie Truman sits down with her brother, Michael Callahan, in this episode to get answers to these questions and more. He shares what it was like growing up with a different father from his siblings, navigating complicated family dynamics and multiple stepfathers.
-
In a heartfelt conversation, Michael opens up about the loss of his biological father at a young age — before he ever got a chance to know him. He also talks about entering the unknown world of fatherhood after not wanting to take on the role of parent.
-
Purchase Vanishing Fathers
100% of the proceeds go to charity that help at-risk youths
Connect with Jamie at Truman Charities:
Facebook
Instagram
LinkedIn
Website
YouTube
Email: info@trumancharities.com
This episode was post produced by Podcast Boutique https://podcastboutique.com/
I spoke with Michael Callahan for our Vanishing Father series. Michael is actually my oldest brother and the first person I came to about this project. I wanted to know what it was like growing up without a sibling that shared the same biological father and mother as he did, how he dealt with his father's drug addiction, the loss of his father at a young age and, ultimately, what changed his mind from never wanting to be a father to becoming a loving husband and father himself. This is Michael's story. All right, michael, thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me, Jenny.
Speaker 1:I know this is a little bit different because, michael, you're my brother, you're my oldest brother, so I am always interviewing so many people, but this is, oh no, I interviewed Jer, interviewed my husband, so I did interview Jeri once, but it's always a little bit different when you're interviewing a family member.
Speaker 2:So this should be fun. Try to make it as awkward as possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah right, this should be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:I'll do my best.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell me a little bit, because I think this will be really interesting, because we grew up in the same family but we have different fathers, so it'll be interesting to see your outlook on different things, if it's similar or a lot different than mine. So let's start out first. Obviously, people are listening that they don't know you, so tell me when you were born and where, and tell me about your family dynamic when you're born, okay.
Speaker 2:I was born November 28th 1979. I am the oldest of six kids. I am your older brother and I was born in the Baltimore area and I have a lot of good memories. But there's I've never been asked a lot of these questions, so I've been thinking about them. There's a lot of uniqueness to, I suppose, how I viewed my family when I was very young and I have a lot of early memories of you and DJ. Yeah, I guess growing up with a different father. It didn't really register when I was young because I felt like I had a brother and sister and I also always had a stepfather figure there throughout. So one of the most interesting things about this topic is I've thought more deeply about the no father thing as I've gotten older. When I was younger it was just kind of like I didn't know what I was missing.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit. Let's go back and so your biological father and mom. Were they together when you were born and what was their dynamic as you were younger?
Speaker 2:You had asked in pre about any memories of my father when I was young and I don't. I have three distinct memories of my father and none of them are from when I was a child or a baby. I was always told growing up that my father left at when I was one years old or when I was a year and a half or something like that. I have a child now, michael Callie. In the fourth.
Speaker 2:When we were getting ready to have him, I went home to meet a, to hang out with mom, to see the family, and I believe Jessica was. She was close, she was probably six, seven months pregnant and then I really wanted to dig into it with mom. So I asked when my father left and I got a little bit more of an accurate picture of just what that dynamic was. And he didn't stick around for long at all. The perception I got from mom when I asked that most recent time was that they were both very young. It was a young relationship and he didn't stick around because he was simply immature. But it wasn't even a year, a year and a half, I don't. I don't think he was around for more than a couple months.
Speaker 1:Cause she was 19, wasn't she?
Speaker 2:She was 19.
Speaker 1:Yeah, was he 19 too?
Speaker 2:I believe so they were the same age. She was a little bit older, I think, not quite a year.
Speaker 1:And so then, what was that like when you were younger? Did you see any difference? Because at that point we went through where mom was married to my dad, me and DJs for a little bit. But then do you remember any of the time when they were together, because you were also pretty young too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I have memories of Dave, which is your father and I don't. I don't have memories thinking he was my dad, but I have pretty strong memories thinking he was a father figure and he was your dad and I had positive memories of him. My youngest memories with a father figure was Dave being there and you guys being very, very small and him always being nice to me, but he, you know, of course, spoiled the heck out of your brother.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, what was that like? How did that feel?
Speaker 2:You know, like I said, I think more contemplatively about the no father thing as I've gotten older. When I was young and looking at Dave as a father figure, I just remember thinking well, I guess my dad's not here, I guess I'll work that out later, I guess I'll figure that out later. Never really got a whole lot of later.
Speaker 1:And so then mom ended up divorcing Dave. And then what was that time like in between? And because then she met Jack and married him. But what was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the reason there's so much. I mean you have to realize she married Jack when I was six years old.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're still really young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a lot, though the reason that the Dave and my father thing is so crazy Is is that first five years of my life was kind of wild. He does a lot of things going on, but I was also one to five, so I always thought I had a traditionally kind of regular upbringing, because at six she introduced Jack to the family and married Jack and I do have a pretty. I've told mom this. I have an Interesting memory. I don't know exactly why I remember this, but I remember her taking me into the garage and Explaining to me that I needed to start calling him dad.
Speaker 2:It was weird to me, it felt weird to me and I guess that reinforces the whole the day thing, because I I never thought of calling. I mean, maybe I did call him dad, but I always knew he was Dave. He was always just kind of like a cool step dad and I guess we were taking that route with Jack and mom was like no, no, this is, you're gonna call him dad. And I was like, okay, sure, I'll call him dad, but then you know, for for a lot of years at least a decade that's a pretty regular Family waiting at the bottom of the stairs at Christmas video cam ring. You know a kind of a normal upbringing, and then, when I was 20 years Old, my father died. So yeah, it's been a wild ride.
Speaker 1:Well, take it back a little bit to when was the first time that you met your father, how old were you and what was that like?
Speaker 2:The first time I met my father I was a teenager. There's three distinct memories I have of my father, which you know. There's a certain amount of sadness about that because you know the first feeling I had when I heard that he had died and I'll get back to your question but sure, the first feeling I had when he died was that kind of like that. You know, you get the feeling like in your life you might forget about something and you're like, oh, I miss that, I'm never gonna chance to do that again. It might have been like a vacation you were gonna go on or something like that. I felt that. But like a hundred times more inside I was like, wow, I really just lost the chance to get to know that person. That seems like a there's a Missed opportunity there, to say the least. But the three memories I have of my father is what? I was a young boy, maybe Six to eight years older, I don't think I was nine but mom, my father's mother, who I did, I did have a relationship with, growing for the audience, that's my grandmother. She was at my wedding or still very close, but she is the person from my father's side, what I have a relationship with. She put me on the phone, against mom's wishes, with my dad and I talked to them for a few minutes was Interesting, but I have. That's my one memory.
Speaker 2:My second memory is the first time I got to meet him face to face, which was at an I hop. It's actually a pretty, it's a pretty crazy story, I mean it's. It's very, it's kind of beautiful. It's kind of sad because he only said a few things to me. But when I first sat down to meet him at a counter like we're in the I hop and he said I looked at my, I was like because I'd followed him to the seat and I was like you know, studying this person Physically, and I was like that's, he's got my wide frame. He like looks like a square like me. And I sat down and I was like you have my eyes. And he was like no boy, you have mine. It's pretty, pretty cute. But that's my second memory.
Speaker 2:The third memory is he. He went back and forth in and out of addiction and when he wasn't struggling with addiction, I guess he was very involved in the church and he had a some sort of a graduation and I went to see him. This is probably when I was 17, something like that. So we're talking about two memories when I was about 17, 18, maybe 16 and then one a phone call when I was six. So in total I met my dad in person twice and Once on the phone and so what was that graduation for?
Speaker 2:He was graduating from Bible college. I don't know exactly what denomination or what the college, but I remember it was important to him. I went there to congratulate him and we took a picture in the parking lot and, yeah, I could tell that he had a lot of. He was involved in a network there at church and it was one of those Meetings where, if I knew I'd only gotten two in my life, I would have been more inquisitive, I would have tried to make more out of it. But it was just you take things for granted when you don't know. You don't know how much time you have right.
Speaker 1:So what do you know about him from when mom met him? Was he into his addiction already at that point? Do you know when that started?
Speaker 2:I know that he had struggled with addiction Throughout his life. I think the lifestyle that him and his friends the time they grew up and they ran fast and wild and they were Experimenting with everything the 70s had to off. So I think that he was kind of wild and crazy, which I certainly had a bit of that phase, maybe different, growing up. But his was exacerbated by his father killing himself. So what I'm told and I've asked questions about his father, his father was also Into drugs?
Speaker 2:I think that he had. He was a sales guy and he, you know, he got on pharmaceutical drugs and then and then regular drugs because they were a lot more Liberally prescribed and used and tolerated in the 50s and he just kind of went off the deep end. So my father Got more into drugs after he walked in, after his dad killed himself. His dad killed himself and he walked through the police tape and saw that and you can imagine how that would affect a 17 year old boy at the time and and after that I think was all bets are off. He was just a bit more than just mildly self-destructive, sad.
Speaker 1:Can you take me back to the day where you found out that your dad had passed, and how?
Speaker 2:do you?
Speaker 1:find out yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember I was at a educational program for a marketing company that I was in and and it was really not the appropriate setting. Well, there's really not an appropriate setting, I guess, but it was it added to the shock. I guess it was I sell like Again, I think we spoke. When we spoke last time I talked about like running out of time, that feeling of running out of time, and I was like ran out of time, no more time now. It wasn't like immediate sadness, it was more like I think I have a reaction to things, like when DJ got hit by a car, I just go into like handle it mode, mm-hmm. So I like to be back and what am I responsible for? And maybe that's a way of not dealing with it.
Speaker 1:What did you have to do?
Speaker 2:I had to go to a funeral and meet a bunch of people that I didn't know. I had to reach out to. His family was gonna reach out to me so I could go and collect final items. I went to Gran Ruth's house and walked through. I went through his things, like his room, and it was a really quiet, eerie 10 minutes or 15, but it's in my life because I didn't know this man.
Speaker 2:But I was asked to come in and kind of, take whatever you wanted, take whatever you felt that you should have. So I had to set up that and I had to find out when I was gonna go to the morgue, because I'm the only, I'm the last to kin. So one of the first things I had to do I think when they were actually talking to me while I was in this educational program I think it was either mom or my mom was telling me and they said you'd have to come and identify the body Legally, you have to come show up at the morgue and I was like, okay, this will be the third time I've seen it. So, yeah, that's the sort of stuff I was taking care of, I guess, is where to go, oh, who to meet. What I'm responsible for.
Speaker 1:And so when you went to his house, did you take any items? Were there any items that you felt that you wanted to keep?
Speaker 2:I kept some paperwork. There's some journals and things that I took of his. I took his Bible. I took a pool cue. There's a pool cue that I have of his. He liked to play pool. So I would say that the two items I have are the Bible and the pool cue, but there's also like some, like I mentioned you before, that I probably have a sister. I think I do have a sister out there. I mean beyond you.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:I know I saw I got a birthday card to her. There was like some cards, there's cards and there's journal writings and just like kind of junk paper is best I can put it.
Speaker 1:So you like. Growing up, you've always been a good writer. Was he like a writer too, cause you got journals from him? Does it seem like he would? Yeah, he looked like he had journals I knew he was.
Speaker 2:I could tell he was in a lot of pain. There was some pain in his life cause he would he'd go back and forth with. I read through his journals and he had a lot of struggles. He struggled with things.
Speaker 1:So did you end up going to the morgue?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'll never forget kissing on his forehead. It was cold. Nanny, I think Granny was there, I don't think she, she hadn't passed yet. It was Granny was there and mum, mum and I walked through the room and it was weird. He pulled up the sheet, it was cold, and I didn't know what to do and said you know, they said say goodbye or whatever you want to do, and I just gave him a kiss on his forehead and it was cold. I thought it's a shame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think sometimes that too. Like when we were younger it seems like they were old, but now that we're a little bit older it's like they were so young. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. Yes, that was weird. That was very weird. And again going back to the moment that I found out, I just thought I felt helpless. I felt like there's nothing I could do. I'll just fall in line and do whatever I'm supposed to do. So I wasn't really ready for that call. I'm sure no one ever is, but I thought I'd have more time. I really did. I was like not even worried about it. I was probably. I think I was 21 or something. So this is. This is the company I was in is Trek Alliance. If you can remember back how long ago that was, that was long time ago. I might have been in like Chicago or some city and someone's talking in front of the room. I got to take this. I got to run out and take this call. It's just weird, yeah.
Speaker 1:And those are, like all, like positivity sessions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I came back in. All the, all my sponsors and everything were like what's going on, what's wrong? And that normally they have like something chipper to say to you and I'm like my dad just died. They're like, oh, do you have to go? Yes, I actually will.
Speaker 1:So did you leave right away.
Speaker 2:That I don't remember. I don't remember. It might have been. I honestly don't. It might have been like there's nothing you can do. You know, if there was one more day left or something, just go tomorrow and then you're going to fly back Monday, or something like that. It might have been something like that, but I don't remember specifically.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about the funeral. What was that like?
Speaker 2:The funeral was odd. I met a lot of people that I still remember and I think like I should probably learn more about them and reach out to them and go find them and Brooklyn Park or wherever they are, but it was. It was weird in that I got to sit in the front cause I was last of kin, like I got in like this featured position right right, front and center, but I didn't really know him. I didn't know really anyone around him except for mom. I barely knew anyone in the ring. I think mom came by. I think there's a few of my people that came, but they just kind of like came in the back very briefly. They weren't there for the whole. Like the most of the funeral was people I didn't know and so it was odd, right? So Mom know most of the people.
Speaker 1:I believe, I believe, so I think she knew most of them but she's a little standoffish too.
Speaker 2:She didn't have a great relationship with her, with her son. So there was a lot of his, I guess, his, his father's side of the family or a lot of the people that he grew up with that I had no contact with and they it was one that was in his church group. Those are guys this is his church group that told me some stories about him and said reach out any time. And said reach out any time. He was kind of a leader in the church and he wanted me to reach out to him and I think I saved that person's information. But again it was just condolences from a lot of people that I didn't really know that well and it was. I want to say it was sad.
Speaker 2:But again it's the same feeling of when I found out at that educational program thing was, it's just, I wasn't ready, I was immature, I wasn't ready for that scenario, like I wasn't ready to process that. So I just kind of was there for the ride. You know, I was just paying attention to things but thinking what a bizarre scenario. Is there a person here that I should really go get to know before? Or made my choice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a little lot. Yeah, and then what was it like after you left?
Speaker 2:After I left, there was a lot of cleanup to be done because I was lost of kin. There was a something that was left to me and Don't get it twisted I think it's a little bit like your scenario. There was something that was left for me, but it wasn't really like a a good thing. It was Something that I had to sell as a condo. Baltimore is something I had to take care of. You know, there's a lot of debts that I had not a lot, but there was some debts that I had to Let them know that I wasn't responsible for. There was an old van I had to get rid of. There was a those two old cars I had to get rid of and one condo that had been. I don't think it had been set on fire yet, but it was so it was pretty, it was trashed. It was not worth anything.
Speaker 2:I think that after it was all said and done, I got you know a couple hundred or a couple thousand bucks and that's after bring you know, find an investor to come in and help me fix it all up and and try to resell it.
Speaker 2:So in that regard, I was lucky that I found some of them to, at least you know, help me get rid of it or help me Do something with that place.
Speaker 2:But you'd asked before about what I there's anything that I received that I got from from Rocky, and I thought it was interesting because in the trunk of one of the vans that I I got there was willed I had to deal with. I had it up like just selling it for 50 bucks or something like that, but it was an old van and there was some keepsakes in the back of it and I've always been in sales and I was always told that he, his father, was a, you know, really great insurance agent. He was a really good salesperson before he had troubles, you know, later during later in his life. But there was in like a. You know I used to sign up in these MLM companies that give you a kit like that you buy like a kit for a hundred bucks or 200 bucks or whatever, and I I found one of those kits for Excel was a phone company. So apparently my father was in Excel a long, long time ago.
Speaker 1:So I thought that was kind of cute and then what was it like when mom and Jack Divorce?
Speaker 2:went through a lot of personal growth sort of stuff in my 20s and I would always say like I had a normal upbringing, because some of my other siblings that might have been at more tender ages when some of these major things happened, whereas I Was accustomed to having a stepdad around six to eight, and then around 18, 19, something like that, the family started to fall apart again. So those crucial years of high school and everything and I always used to say that like myself and autumn were the least affected and I think that's maybe a defense mechanism for me. Mom's said before, like you didn't have a father. Of course she was screwed up like, but I felt so bad for you. I saw how awkward and strange it was for for you and for Chelsea and for Matthew, and that's where my heart would go because I, to me, I felt like an adult.
Speaker 2:I think I was probably out of the house and like my first apartment or something like that. You know you get your first apartment at 20 years old and you're being an idiot and you're kind of still at home some. That's the point when that marriage started to fall apart. So I'm just trying to shield all the little kids from all this weird shit that's happening and For me I was like, well, you know, I got an upbringing out of it and now they can divorce and do whatever they need to do. Just don't involve the kids. But that didn't happen.
Speaker 1:So we have like three sets in the family, so it's you, and then DJ and myself, and then Matthew, chelsea and autumn. How did that feel not having that other sibling that kind of knew exactly what you were going through? Did it have effective? Not have an effect?
Speaker 2:Well, I got. I may have suppressed a lot of it. I contemplate a lot more of these things in my 30s and 40s than than earlier in life. So I felt I Didn't know that, I didn't know that I was alone. I just dealt with it as it came to me and it was hard, but I didn't know anything but that. So I felt like you were. I don't know what it's like to have a blood sibling, so to me you and DJ and Matthew and Chelsea and autumn are my siblings, that's, you're as close as I can feel Like a sibling would be.
Speaker 1:I think that Does have a lot to do with because I feel the same way, and so does DJ, and I don't know about Matthew, chelsea and autumn, but I haven't asked them because we were all kind of raised that way anyways, so they're never this kind of difference between that. So when you met Jess and that's your wife, and you guys were contemplating having a family, was that something you always wanted to have?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. It's actually something I've never shared with. Well, I haven't shared a lot of people. I think I've shared with Jeff house, but you know I can be dramatic sometimes, that's. I have been dramatic in the past. Okay, like the spice of life. You know, for a lot of my 20s I was on record saying I'm not having kids, I'm the end of the trilogy, I'm not gonna have a kid, because I thought it's kind of sad and it's a little dramatic, but it's kind of sad. I was like, well, you know, I don't need to. I get.
Speaker 2:There's, of course, a lot of Programmering from mass media about how there's too many people and you don't need kids. They complicate your life and I just didn't want some of the things that I saw happen to us. I didn't want to have to contribute to that. So I thought there's been three Michael Callahan's. That's good. You know most things are good in threes. Let's just do the trilogy. I'll be the last. The last one end on a high-dose.
Speaker 2:But I didn't still feel that way. I met Jess and I really wanted. It showed me that I wanted to have a child. I wanted to take that challenge because it's to me being a father. It was scarier than going to get a job, getting through school, or that's a massive responsibility. And because I didn't have a role model, I thought, well, I probably just wall the place, but I don't know. You meet the right person and the most important thing you can do, you know, when I met Jess, like my opinion changed. I guess when you meet the right person, you're ready to take on that challenge of what I was intimidated about for a very long time, which was, you know, being a father.
Speaker 2:And I I didn't want to try and play that game because I didn't know what being a good father looked like and I knew what's at stake. If you mess that one up, you can create a real problem for society. But it's the most important thing you can do. Like I, when I met Jess, I thought, well, that's more exciting to me than getting the right job or getting the right education. You know, if you can really pour your heart into that and be good at that, then that's everything you know. And now that I have a little Michael, that's, he is everything I mean. That's, it's, it's wild, it's. You know, come full circle.
Speaker 2:I did, but I for a while I was not going to have kids because I thought it's hard enough in this world to try and raise a family and Other people can be good fathers. I don't know what that looks like. So, oh, because we didn't get into Jack and you know he was a fine stepdad, but you know he, I just saw him like disconnect with all of the children that when they became teenagers and now he doesn't have a relationship with any of us that he raised else like that's, that's an interesting, that's an interesting choice as a father or stepfather. I don't have anything. I don't only think against him. My point saying that was just that I don't. I don't really have a 100% Good father figure that I can look to and go.
Speaker 1:I'll just do what he did right, right, so make it a lot more difficult.
Speaker 2:Right, right, you can see why I just kind of wanted to avoid the whole thing together for the most my 20s.
Speaker 1:So what type of values Do you want to instill in Michael, little Michael?
Speaker 2:I think he's really smart and I think he's kind and I think he's funny and Just to leave the world a better place than you found it. You know to do your best. You're gonna fall down but get back up and I Thought, you know, I could be a role model to. I have a lot to give back. I have a lot to share. So I have you and DJ to look at his parents parental figures and and I think that I think we're gonna do great. I think we'll do fine. He's a good boy. It's not hard to improve upon where we came from. So they could look at it like that, right and start in the race at the 50 yard line.
Speaker 1:You know so what was it like when you found out that just was pregnant? What was that feeling?
Speaker 2:night and day from when I was younger. I was super excited. I never had any. I've had relationships in the past where the the woman that I was with really wanted kids and I didn't make me want kids any more at all. But when Jess was pregnant I was super excited, went to some stupid place like to eat like champs. That's called BJ's. It's like a restaurant of kind of a sports bar sort of thing. We found out the gender and the doctor gave us this little book of you know, you turn the pages and it's got like a nice little message about what you're having a boy or girl and there's a video when, when she found she was pregnant. There's a video of me jumping up and down, but there's not a video of this. We were at this restaurant. She was like opening it and she gets to the point where she said we're having a boy and I just screamed. I was like yes. Yelling everyone like yes, you hear that, you hear that. Yeah, I was excited, yeah, from the very beginning.
Speaker 1:And then what was it like when he was here? You were able to hold him and you were like he's here, I am a father.
Speaker 2:I'm not a huge fan of hospitals, so my first memories were being the protective dad. Like I was on him in the when he came out and I was like looking at everyone, like you know, what are you doing? What are you doing? And the number one thing that I can say is that something kind of kicks in. It must be nature or something like that kicks in, like this is the most important thing. Like it's not like I'm busy, it's like you're doing this. You can exclude everything else and figure out a way to make it work, because this is the most important thing now and you're just gonna deal with it, that's it and that's against. A tremendous sense of duty, like came from deep within. This is the most important, saying you will give this your utmost attention.
Speaker 1:So what would your advice be to someone that is going through a similar situation that you did growing up? There wasn't this one father figure, like you said, like they're just it's kind of there's somebody here and then that doesn't work and there's somebody else who's kind of this a little bit of instability when it comes to that. Like, mom was always this, you know, stable, rock and was wonderful, and what I always say is there's there's only so much that one person can do, because one person's trying to do two jobs and that's an impossible task for someone to to have. So what would your advice be to someone that's kind of feeling a little bit, maybe even a little lost, that they're kind of in this, you know, unstable place?
Speaker 2:I get it. I'd say this is America, I mean, this is we all come from broken families, I mean, but that I do think it's important to aim for the ideal. I don't think it's productive for people to say you know, of course I respect single mothers and I respect different sorts of families, but a child needs a mother and a father. That's the ideal situation. So if you find the right person, you can overcome where you came from. But you should aim for the ideal. But we can all overcome you over to came. Look at you, look at DJ. We've all done great. But don't kid yourself. There's an ideal that you should strive for and if you find the right person, you should try to keep that marriage. Try, do your best.
Speaker 1:Do your best, do your best All right, so is there anything else that you would want to talk about that you think might be important? I do think it's important.
Speaker 2:You never know when someone will, when you will get to speak to someone again. So I think that for those out there that might have strained relationships with either their mother, father or grandmother, grandfather whether you know a close relative, you know do it. You don't get to know when someone will be taken away from you and sometimes you only get I don't think about it too much because it keeps me up but it you only get one side of the story and that is a shame. You don't get to decide what the future holds. So go take that step and talk to that person or ask that person a question that you might not get the answer to from that person Again. So if it's painful, if it's awkward, if it's uncomfortable, good, go do it any and reach out to that person, because you never know what the future holds. Alright, michael. Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1:You're welcome and adding Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, I learned so much. Thank you look good. I really do cross my fingers so that you and Jess have some more. Yes, I'm not going to keep saying that's good.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you, I have to say, the sibling is, it's tough but it's really cute.
Speaker 1:No, we want more, we want more.
Speaker 2:We're going to keep going, Alright. Well, thank you for having me, sis.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and if you'd like to follow us online, go to our website trumentaritiescom. Facebook at Trumentarities, instagram Jamie underscore Trumentarities, and you can follow me on LinkedIn at Jamie Trumman. Thank you so much for listening to our Vanishing Father series and please make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any further episodes.