{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":2.7,"endTime":5.76,"body":"You're listening"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":2.7,"endTime":5.76,"body":"to Veterinary Vertex, a podcast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":5.76,"endTime":9.27,"body":"of the AVMA journals. In this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":5.76,"endTime":9.27,"body":"episode, we chat about"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":9.27,"endTime":13.47,"body":"differences in perceptions and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":9.27,"endTime":13.47,"body":"satisfaction among veterinarians"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":13.47,"endTime":16.53,"body":"employed at corporate versus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":13.47,"endTime":16.53,"body":"privately owned veterinary"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":16.53,"endTime":18.99,"body":"clinics with our guest Lori"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":16.53,"endTime":18.99,"body":"Kogan."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":24.51,"endTime":26.58,"body":"Welcome to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":24.51,"endTime":26.58,"body":"Veterinary Vertex, I'm editor in"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":26.58,"endTime":29.73,"body":"chief Lisa Fortier. I'm joined"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":26.58,"endTime":29.73,"body":"by Associate Editor Sarah"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":29.73,"endTime":36.21,"body":"Wright. Today we have Lori Kogan"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":29.73,"endTime":36.21,"body":"from CSU (go rams!) joining us."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":36.42,"endTime":39.15,"body":"Lori, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":36.42,"endTime":39.15,"body":"taking time out of your day to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":39.15,"endTime":42.33,"body":"be here with us and educate us"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":39.15,"endTime":42.33,"body":"on this really important topic."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":42.96,"endTime":46.47,"body":"I am delighted to be"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":42.96,"endTime":46.47,"body":"with both of you today. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":46.47,"endTime":49.44,"body":"excited to talk about the topic."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":46.47,"endTime":49.44,"body":"So thanks for inviting me."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":50.58,"endTime":52.47,"body":"We're excited to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":50.58,"endTime":52.47,"body":"hear about it. So let's dive"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":52.47,"endTime":56.97,"body":"right in. Your manuscript in"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":52.47,"endTime":56.97,"body":"JAVMA discusses perception and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":56.97,"endTime":60.9,"body":"satisfaction among veterinarians"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":56.97,"endTime":60.9,"body":"employed at corporate versus"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":60.9,"endTime":64.17,"body":"privately owned veterinary"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":60.9,"endTime":64.17,"body":"clinics. Can you explain to our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":64.38,"endTime":67.53,"body":"listeners, the differences"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":64.38,"endTime":67.53,"body":"between corporate and privately"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":67.53,"endTime":68.88,"body":"owned veterinary clinics?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":70.73,"endTime":73.13,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":70.73,"endTime":73.13,"body":"hopefully, what you mean is just"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":73.13,"endTime":76.49,"body":"kind of a fundamental difference"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":73.13,"endTime":76.49,"body":"in that traditionally,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":76.64,"endTime":80.03,"body":"veterinary clinics have been"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":76.64,"endTime":80.03,"body":"owned by a veterinarian or a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":80.03,"endTime":83.3,"body":"group of veterinarians. And, you"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":80.03,"endTime":83.3,"body":"know, that's kind of the model"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":83.3,"endTime":86.0,"body":"that many of us grew up with."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":83.3,"endTime":86.0,"body":"But more and more, what we're"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":86.0,"endTime":89.39,"body":"seeing is that large"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":86.0,"endTime":89.39,"body":"corporations that actually have"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":89.39,"endTime":93.26,"body":"nothing to do with veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":89.39,"endTime":93.26,"body":"medicine are buying veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":93.26,"endTime":100.01,"body":"practices. And so I mean,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":93.26,"endTime":100.01,"body":"there's well over 60 veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":100.04,"endTime":105.32,"body":"consolidators, and most of the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":100.04,"endTime":105.32,"body":"people that lead these, these"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":105.32,"endTime":107.87,"body":"firms, they're not"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":105.32,"endTime":107.87,"body":"veterinarians. They're not"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":107.87,"endTime":112.43,"body":"veterinary related. But so now"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":107.87,"endTime":112.43,"body":"what we have is about 75% of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":112.43,"endTime":117.5,"body":"specialty and emergency clinics"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":112.43,"endTime":117.5,"body":"are corporate owned, about 25%"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":117.53,"endTime":120.26,"body":"of all first opinion clinics."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":122.69,"endTime":124.4,"body":"This is a very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":122.69,"endTime":124.4,"body":"interesting study to share with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":124.4,"endTime":127.01,"body":"our listeners. What are the"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":124.4,"endTime":127.01,"body":"important findings from this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":127.01,"endTime":127.52,"body":"study?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":129.61,"endTime":132.73,"body":"Well, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":129.61,"endTime":132.73,"body":"the first things that we looked"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":132.73,"endTime":136.09,"body":"at was looking at some of the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":132.73,"endTime":136.09,"body":"benefits, I mean, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":136.09,"endTime":141.79,"body":"of different benefits that are"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":136.09,"endTime":141.79,"body":"usually included within an"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":142.24,"endTime":145.84,"body":"employment as a veterinarian."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":142.24,"endTime":145.84,"body":"And what we found is that people"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":145.84,"endTime":149.95,"body":"did report receiving more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":145.84,"endTime":149.95,"body":"benefits when they worked in a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":150.07,"endTime":153.37,"body":"corporate setting versus a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":150.07,"endTime":153.37,"body":"private setting. And so those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":153.37,"endTime":156.22,"body":"benefits were things like health"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":153.37,"endTime":156.22,"body":"insurance, like pretty much all"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":156.22,"endTime":160.42,"body":"of the insurances health, dental"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":156.22,"endTime":160.42,"body":"life, and short term disability."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":161.26,"endTime":164.89,"body":"They also reported more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":161.26,"endTime":164.89,"body":"likelihood of having like mental"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":164.89,"endTime":170.74,"body":"wellness programs, like a VIN"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":164.89,"endTime":170.74,"body":"membership, continuing education"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":170.74,"endTime":174.88,"body":"paid by their employer. So those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":170.74,"endTime":174.88,"body":"types of things, so they had"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":174.88,"endTime":178.96,"body":"more benefits. But what was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":174.88,"endTime":178.96,"body":"interesting was that there"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":178.96,"endTime":184.15,"body":"wasn't any difference in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":178.96,"endTime":184.15,"body":"satisfaction of those benefits."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":184.18,"endTime":186.58,"body":"So when we looked at"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":184.18,"endTime":186.58,"body":"satisfaction level between those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":186.58,"endTime":192.91,"body":"two groups, so really all of our"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":186.58,"endTime":192.91,"body":"work looked at the corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":192.91,"endTime":195.43,"body":"versus private, and so there was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":192.91,"endTime":195.43,"body":"no difference in those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":195.43,"endTime":200.41,"body":"satisfactions. What we did find,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":195.43,"endTime":200.41,"body":"though, where there were a lot"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":200.41,"endTime":204.46,"body":"of areas that were different."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":200.41,"endTime":204.46,"body":"And so there were many things"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":204.46,"endTime":208.36,"body":"that we assessed, that really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":204.46,"endTime":208.36,"body":"kind of relate to emotional well"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":208.36,"endTime":213.85,"body":"being and burnout. And so those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":208.36,"endTime":213.85,"body":"things are things like being"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":213.85,"endTime":217.69,"body":"recognized or known as an"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":213.85,"endTime":217.69,"body":"individual by upper management,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":217.87,"endTime":223.63,"body":"on things like hospital culture,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":217.87,"endTime":223.63,"body":"the ability to fire difficult or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":223.63,"endTime":227.77,"body":"abusive clients and mentorship,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":223.63,"endTime":227.77,"body":"those things were weighted"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":227.77,"endTime":231.82,"body":"higher by people that were in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":227.77,"endTime":231.82,"body":"private versus corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":231.82,"endTime":236.77,"body":"practice. And then the folks"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":231.82,"endTime":236.77,"body":"that were in corporate practice"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":236.77,"endTime":240.43,"body":"also reported feeling more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":236.77,"endTime":240.43,"body":"pressure than those in private"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":240.43,"endTime":244.99,"body":"practice to generate revenue,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":240.43,"endTime":244.99,"body":"and see more clients per shift."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":244.99,"endTime":249.22,"body":"And so together all those things"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":244.99,"endTime":249.22,"body":"kind of paint a picture where it"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":249.22,"endTime":253.33,"body":"looks like maybe that that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":249.22,"endTime":253.33,"body":"atmosphere, and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":253.33,"endTime":260.47,"body":"private practices might be less"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":253.33,"endTime":260.47,"body":"conducive for burnout and things"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":260.47,"endTime":263.05,"body":"like compassion, fatigue, and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":260.47,"endTime":263.05,"body":"things like that than maybe"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":263.05,"endTime":267.04,"body":"those in a corporate practice."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":263.05,"endTime":267.04,"body":"We also specifically looked at"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":267.04,"endTime":269.89,"body":"some of the things that because"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":267.04,"endTime":269.89,"body":"when you look at all the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":269.89,"endTime":273.31,"body":"literature that talks about the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":269.89,"endTime":273.31,"body":"benefits of corporate practices,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":273.58,"endTime":275.92,"body":"there are a couple of things"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":273.58,"endTime":275.92,"body":"that are talked about over and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":275.92,"endTime":280.18,"body":"over again. One is this ability"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":275.92,"endTime":280.18,"body":"to have more predictable hours"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":280.18,"endTime":283.33,"body":"or manageable workloads. And so"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":280.18,"endTime":283.33,"body":"that was something that was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":283.33,"endTime":286.42,"body":"really important for us to look"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":283.33,"endTime":286.42,"body":"at. And actually we found no"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":286.42,"endTime":290.41,"body":"difference in satisfaction level"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":286.42,"endTime":290.41,"body":"between those in private versus"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":290.41,"endTime":293.14,"body":"corporate when we looked at all"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":290.41,"endTime":293.14,"body":"the different aspects that were"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":293.14,"endTime":296.95,"body":"related to schedule, and so that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":293.14,"endTime":296.95,"body":"might be their hours per week,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":297.1,"endTime":300.91,"body":"their length of their shifts,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":297.1,"endTime":300.91,"body":"the ability to work at a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":300.91,"endTime":305.65,"body":"scheduled time, their ability to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":300.91,"endTime":305.65,"body":"have a flexible schedule based"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":305.65,"endTime":309.43,"body":"upon their needs. There were no"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":305.65,"endTime":309.43,"body":"differences between the two"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":309.43,"endTime":312.55,"body":"groups. And nor were the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":309.43,"endTime":312.55,"body":"perceptions of their personal"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":312.55,"endTime":316.99,"body":"caseload. And so the idea that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":312.55,"endTime":316.99,"body":"corporate offers more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":316.99,"endTime":320.32,"body":"predictable hours and manageable"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":316.99,"endTime":320.32,"body":"workloads, we didn't find that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":320.32,"endTime":324.88,"body":"in our research. We also really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":320.32,"endTime":324.88,"body":"didn't find that corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":324.88,"endTime":333.46,"body":"practices ran more efficiently"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":324.88,"endTime":333.46,"body":"as defined by things like being"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":333.46,"endTime":338.74,"body":"able to acquire equipment, and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":333.46,"endTime":338.74,"body":"the ability to get treatment or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":338.74,"endTime":344.32,"body":"diagnosis done, the hospital"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":338.74,"endTime":344.32,"body":"flow, the physical space that is"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":344.83,"endTime":349.57,"body":"available to treat animals, or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":344.83,"endTime":349.57,"body":"practice management software"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":349.57,"endTime":352.93,"body":"systems. And so again, there"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":349.57,"endTime":352.93,"body":"were kind of no differences. And"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":352.93,"endTime":358.9,"body":"those were we also looked at,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":352.93,"endTime":358.9,"body":"because we thought, well, maybe"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":358.9,"endTime":362.8,"body":"corporate has a lot more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":358.9,"endTime":362.8,"body":"capital, you know, a lot more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":362.8,"endTime":366.43,"body":"money. And so we looked at"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":362.8,"endTime":366.43,"body":"satisfaction in things like"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":366.43,"endTime":370.18,"body":"wages for all of the support"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":366.43,"endTime":370.18,"body":"staff, so the veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":370.27,"endTime":374.14,"body":"technicians, the reception"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":370.27,"endTime":374.14,"body":"staff, that and then the other"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":374.14,"endTime":377.35,"body":"support staff, and we really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":374.14,"endTime":377.35,"body":"found, again, no difference in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":377.35,"endTime":381.7,"body":"satisfaction levels for all of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":377.35,"endTime":381.7,"body":"those things. But it was it was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":381.7,"endTime":384.73,"body":"opposite of what we had thought"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":381.7,"endTime":384.73,"body":"perhaps in that corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":384.73,"endTime":388.57,"body":"actually, people in corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":384.73,"endTime":388.57,"body":"practice predicted less, they"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":388.57,"endTime":392.53,"body":"were less satisfied with all"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":388.57,"endTime":392.53,"body":"those things. So not only was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":392.62,"endTime":396.52,"body":"corporate not higher, but it was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":392.62,"endTime":396.52,"body":"actually less. And they were"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":396.52,"endTime":399.73,"body":"actually less for veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":396.52,"endTime":399.73,"body":"less satisfaction for veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":399.76,"endTime":406.75,"body":"production based finances as"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":399.76,"endTime":406.75,"body":"well. And then lastly, one of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":406.75,"endTime":409.93,"body":"the other things I just wanted"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":406.75,"endTime":409.93,"body":"to mention was that we also"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":410.02,"endTime":413.02,"body":"sometimes corporate talks about"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":410.02,"endTime":413.02,"body":"this awesome opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":413.02,"endTime":417.55,"body":"leadership opportunities. But we"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":413.02,"endTime":417.55,"body":"didn't find any difference. And"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":418.21,"endTime":422.89,"body":"whether people were interested"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":418.21,"endTime":422.89,"body":"in obtaining future leadership,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":423.49,"endTime":426.61,"body":"based upon whether they were in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":423.49,"endTime":426.61,"body":"private or corporate. And we"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":426.61,"endTime":429.34,"body":"kind of thought maybe that the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":426.61,"endTime":429.34,"body":"people that were really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":429.34,"endTime":431.56,"body":"interested in leadership"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":429.34,"endTime":431.56,"body":"positions that maybe they might"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":431.56,"endTime":434.02,"body":"be more in corporate, but that's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":431.56,"endTime":434.02,"body":"not what we found."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":435.34,"endTime":437.11,"body":"That's really cool"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":435.34,"endTime":437.11,"body":"like that some of the best"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":437.11,"endTime":441.79,"body":"studies you do are Mythbusters."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":437.11,"endTime":441.79,"body":"But they also are like, wow, I"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":441.79,"endTime":443.59,"body":"heard you say at least three"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":441.79,"endTime":443.59,"body":"things. That's not what we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":443.59,"endTime":445.9,"body":"thought was going to happen."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":443.59,"endTime":445.9,"body":"That's not what we thought, not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.02,"body":"so much what the perception of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":445.9,"endTime":449.02,"body":"corporate versus private. But"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":449.02,"endTime":453.58,"body":"what did you guys as the authors"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":449.02,"endTime":453.58,"body":"hypothesize, or think was going"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":453.58,"endTime":457.63,"body":"to happen? And I always find"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":453.58,"endTime":457.63,"body":"those to be the most fun studies"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":457.63,"endTime":460.0,"body":"to analyze the data. You're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":457.63,"endTime":460.0,"body":"like, Huh, that's not what I"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":460.0,"endTime":464.14,"body":"thought. So I wonder what that"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":460.0,"endTime":464.14,"body":"means. Lori, I would say you're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":464.14,"endTime":468.01,"body":"probably best known for human"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":464.14,"endTime":468.01,"body":"animal interaction, which is a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":468.01,"endTime":471.55,"body":"broad term, but how, how does"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":468.01,"endTime":471.55,"body":"that relate? And what sparked"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":471.55,"endTime":474.19,"body":"your interest in this that is a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":471.55,"endTime":474.19,"body":"little more narrow and corporate"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":474.19,"endTime":475.99,"body":"versus privately owned"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":474.19,"endTime":475.99,"body":"practices?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":478.48,"endTime":480.31,"body":"Well, first, I have"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":478.48,"endTime":480.31,"body":"to backtrack and say, I totally"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":480.31,"endTime":484.72,"body":"agree with you that that's what"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":480.31,"endTime":484.72,"body":"makes research so much fun, is,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":484.75,"endTime":488.77,"body":"is getting to explore things."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":484.75,"endTime":488.77,"body":"And neither is saying, See, I"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":488.77,"endTime":496.48,"body":"thought I was right. Or I'll be"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":488.77,"endTime":496.48,"body":"darned. So I'm always open to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":496.51,"endTime":501.34,"body":"what the data show. But to your"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":496.51,"endTime":501.34,"body":"question, I think what really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":501.37,"endTime":505.27,"body":"got me interested in this topic,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":501.37,"endTime":505.27,"body":"I mean, to me, that the realm of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":505.27,"endTime":508.36,"body":"human animal interactions is"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":505.27,"endTime":508.36,"body":"quite broad, you know, and that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":508.36,"endTime":512.2,"body":"encompasses the mental health"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":508.36,"endTime":512.2,"body":"and well being of everybody that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":512.2,"endTime":515.95,"body":"works with animals. So I'm a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":512.2,"endTime":515.95,"body":"psychologist by training. And so"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":516.52,"endTime":521.11,"body":"I kind of view everything from a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":516.52,"endTime":521.11,"body":"psychological lens and I support"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":521.11,"endTime":526.18,"body":"and coach a lot of veterinarians"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":521.11,"endTime":526.18,"body":"who are either in private or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":526.18,"endTime":531.19,"body":"corporate settings. And, I've"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":526.18,"endTime":531.19,"body":"been hearing things for a while"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":531.19,"endTime":535.06,"body":"now that, that maybe less"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":531.19,"endTime":535.06,"body":"satisfaction from those that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":535.06,"endTime":540.37,"body":"were in corporate, and then some"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":535.06,"endTime":540.37,"body":"real, sometimes dread or fear"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":540.37,"endTime":544.15,"body":"when they when they learn that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":540.37,"endTime":544.15,"body":"their hospitals can be sold to a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":544.15,"endTime":548.44,"body":"corporate practice. And so then"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":544.15,"endTime":548.44,"body":"I thought, well, I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":548.44,"endTime":553.27,"body":"talking to a select group,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":548.44,"endTime":553.27,"body":"right? And so perhaps, that this"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":553.27,"endTime":557.53,"body":"is a biased sample. And so my"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":553.27,"endTime":557.53,"body":"view is skewed. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":557.53,"endTime":561.22,"body":"what really want led me to want"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":557.53,"endTime":561.22,"body":"to explore this more and say,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":561.22,"endTime":565.54,"body":"Okay, what what is the general"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":561.22,"endTime":565.54,"body":"perception out there? What are"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":565.54,"endTime":568.57,"body":"they different is satisfaction"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":565.54,"endTime":568.57,"body":"different for people in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":568.57,"endTime":570.73,"body":"corporate versus private"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":568.57,"endTime":570.73,"body":"practices?"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":573.1,"endTime":575.86,"body":"It's one thing to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":573.1,"endTime":575.86,"body":"have the idea and do the"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":575.95,"endTime":580.87,"body":"research, but in the end, what"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":575.95,"endTime":580.87,"body":"inspired you to write it and if"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":580.87,"endTime":583.48,"body":"I can selfishly ask to share it"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":580.87,"endTime":583.48,"body":"with JAVMA?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":586.3,"endTime":591.01,"body":"Well, my research"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":586.3,"endTime":591.01,"body":"really is about trying to make a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":591.01,"endTime":594.4,"body":"difference in the world of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":591.01,"endTime":594.4,"body":"veterinary medicine and the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":594.4,"endTime":599.02,"body":"world between people and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":594.4,"endTime":599.02,"body":"animals. And so I love this type"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":599.02,"endTime":604.9,"body":"of research because to me, it's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":599.02,"endTime":604.9,"body":"very applied and we have to know"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":604.9,"endTime":608.56,"body":"that a problem exists to be able"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":604.9,"endTime":608.56,"body":"to figure out how to fix it. And"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":608.56,"endTime":612.22,"body":"so if corporate would ended up"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":608.56,"endTime":612.22,"body":"shining in all these areas, I'd"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":612.22,"endTime":614.77,"body":"say, this is so fantastic, you"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":612.22,"endTime":614.77,"body":"know, keep doing what you're"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":614.77,"endTime":619.87,"body":"doing. But I think that this"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":614.77,"endTime":619.87,"body":"really points out some areas"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":619.87,"endTime":623.41,"body":"where I do really feel like they"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":619.87,"endTime":623.41,"body":"have the capabilities to change"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":623.41,"endTime":628.48,"body":"the structure of corporations."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":623.41,"endTime":628.48,"body":"This means to me that they could"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":628.48,"endTime":634.18,"body":"implement some of these changes"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":628.48,"endTime":634.18,"body":"on on such a larger scale than,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":634.21,"endTime":636.46,"body":"you know, the one veterinary"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":634.21,"endTime":636.46,"body":"hospital that's owned by one"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":636.46,"endTime":640.75,"body":"veterinarian. And so it's an"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":636.46,"endTime":640.75,"body":"exciting opportunity to say,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":640.81,"endTime":643.75,"body":"here's some things that could"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":640.81,"endTime":643.75,"body":"really move the needle to help"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":643.75,"endTime":648.31,"body":"veterinarians feel more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":643.75,"endTime":648.31,"body":"satisfied in their job. So that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":648.31,"endTime":650.86,"body":"was kind of the the thought"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":648.31,"endTime":650.86,"body":"behind this study."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":651.29,"endTime":654.86,"body":"Yeah, it's so"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":651.29,"endTime":654.86,"body":"great when you can listen to a"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":654.86,"endTime":658.34,"body":"problem, identify a problem,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":654.86,"endTime":658.34,"body":"listen to it, design the study,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":658.7,"endTime":662.36,"body":"and then actually have an impact"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":658.7,"endTime":662.36,"body":"and provide what I like to refer"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":662.36,"endTime":665.51,"body":"to as evidence based, not"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":662.36,"endTime":665.51,"body":"eminence based, right, this is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":665.51,"endTime":668.21,"body":"an argument that's been going on"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":665.51,"endTime":668.21,"body":"for a long time. And like you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":668.21,"endTime":671.42,"body":"said, you hear all these"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":668.21,"endTime":671.42,"body":"innuendos, but so well, then to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":671.42,"endTime":674.9,"body":"put some strong evidence behind"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":671.42,"endTime":674.9,"body":"some of these conceptions and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":674.9,"endTime":682.22,"body":"misconceptions. And we both we"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":674.9,"endTime":682.22,"body":"alluded to this a little bit"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":682.22,"endTime":685.19,"body":"already. It's so much fun when"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":682.22,"endTime":685.19,"body":"you're like, whoa, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":685.19,"endTime":692.39,"body":"expect that. What is the most"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":685.19,"endTime":692.39,"body":"surprising findings from your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":692.39,"endTime":695.93,"body":"manuscript that you had? You're"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":692.39,"endTime":695.93,"body":"like, that can't be how, why is"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":695.93,"endTime":696.32,"body":"that?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":698.75,"endTime":701.24,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":698.75,"endTime":701.24,"body":"that I double checked a couple"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":701.24,"endTime":705.17,"body":"of times, because I was"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":701.24,"endTime":705.17,"body":"surprised is that, that younger"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":705.17,"endTime":709.43,"body":"veterinarians are more likely to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":705.17,"endTime":709.43,"body":"be in the private practices"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":709.43,"endTime":715.61,"body":"versus the corporate and because"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":709.43,"endTime":715.61,"body":"I thought that maybe because of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":715.61,"endTime":718.37,"body":"the work schedule, and stuff"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":715.61,"endTime":718.37,"body":"like that, or the perception of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":718.37,"endTime":723.41,"body":"that, I thought maybe it would"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":718.37,"endTime":723.41,"body":"be the other way around. But"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":723.41,"endTime":726.89,"body":"then when I, you know, did more"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":723.41,"endTime":726.89,"body":"research around the topic, and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":726.89,"endTime":730.82,"body":"really looked at the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":726.89,"endTime":730.82,"body":"entrepreneurial spirit of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":730.91,"endTime":735.65,"body":"younger veterinarians and not"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":730.91,"endTime":735.65,"body":"always so much wanting to own a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":735.65,"endTime":739.49,"body":"practice, but just that that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":735.65,"endTime":739.49,"body":"general spirit of kind of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":739.49,"endTime":743.48,"body":"wanting to find their own path,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":739.49,"endTime":743.48,"body":"and then it made more sense to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":743.48,"endTime":747.29,"body":"me that they seem to be"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":743.48,"endTime":747.29,"body":"gravitating more towards private"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":747.29,"endTime":749.69,"body":"practice. So that was a little"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":747.29,"endTime":749.69,"body":"bit surprising."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":750.77,"endTime":752.6,"body":"Yeah, as a young"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":750.77,"endTime":752.6,"body":"veterinarian myself, I can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":752.6,"endTime":755.15,"body":"attest, that's pretty similar to"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":752.6,"endTime":755.15,"body":"what a lot of my classmates did"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":755.15,"endTime":760.49,"body":"was gravitate towards private"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":755.15,"endTime":760.49,"body":"practices upon graduation. So"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":760.49,"endTime":763.4,"body":"Lori, you've had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":760.49,"endTime":763.4,"body":"advanced training, how has this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":763.4,"endTime":765.41,"body":"prepared you to write this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":763.4,"endTime":765.41,"body":"manuscript?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":767.96,"endTime":772.46,"body":"Well, I think this"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":767.96,"endTime":772.46,"body":"is what I love doing. So all of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":772.46,"endTime":776.75,"body":"my research revolves around"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":772.46,"endTime":776.75,"body":"human animal interactions. And,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":778.04,"endTime":780.95,"body":"you know, I work at Colorado"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":778.04,"endTime":780.95,"body":"State University. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":780.95,"endTime":785.66,"body":"as Lisa said, but so I, you"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":780.95,"endTime":785.66,"body":"know, I certainly have all those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":785.66,"endTime":789.35,"body":"different components of a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":785.66,"endTime":789.35,"body":"faculty position. But research"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":789.35,"endTime":794.09,"body":"is really the thing that excites"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":789.35,"endTime":794.09,"body":"me so. So I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":794.09,"endTime":798.53,"body":"experience, being able to take"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":794.09,"endTime":798.53,"body":"things that are of interest and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":798.53,"endTime":802.34,"body":"saying, Okay, how do we explore"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":798.53,"endTime":802.34,"body":"this? How do we get some data to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":802.34,"endTime":806.54,"body":"figure out like, what our next"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":802.34,"endTime":806.54,"body":"directions should be? It's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":806.54,"endTime":809.36,"body":"almost like the best part is"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":806.54,"endTime":809.36,"body":"that you get the data, and then"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":809.36,"endTime":812.33,"body":"you're like, ooh, now we can do"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":809.36,"endTime":812.33,"body":"this. And this, and it really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":812.33,"endTime":814.94,"body":"does lead down several different"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":812.33,"endTime":814.94,"body":"paths. So always pushing the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":814.94,"endTime":815.48,"body":"envelope."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":817.73,"endTime":819.41,"body":"This next question"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":817.73,"endTime":819.41,"body":"is very important for our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":819.41,"endTime":823.25,"body":"listeners, what is one piece of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":819.41,"endTime":823.25,"body":"information the veterinarian"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":823.25,"endTime":826.04,"body":"should know before discussing"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":823.25,"endTime":826.04,"body":"this topic with the client?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":829.52,"endTime":832.01,"body":"You know, I think"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":829.52,"endTime":832.01,"body":"that if this topic or to come"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":832.01,"endTime":835.88,"body":"up, I think that what I would"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":832.01,"endTime":835.88,"body":"talk about is the fact that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":836.15,"endTime":838.85,"body":"whether it's corporate owned or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":836.15,"endTime":838.85,"body":"privately owned, it's ultimately"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":838.85,"endTime":842.0,"body":"going to end up on who the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":838.85,"endTime":842.0,"body":"individuals are at that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":842.0,"endTime":847.82,"body":"particular hospital. And so I"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":842.0,"endTime":847.82,"body":"don't think that most clients"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":847.85,"endTime":852.74,"body":"know nor necessarily care"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":847.85,"endTime":852.74,"body":"whether a hospital is corporate"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":852.74,"endTime":856.61,"body":"or private own. What they care"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":852.74,"endTime":856.61,"body":"about, is the relationship that"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":856.61,"endTime":859.64,"body":"they have with their"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":856.61,"endTime":859.64,"body":"veterinarian and their"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":859.64,"endTime":864.26,"body":"veterinary support staff. And so"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":859.64,"endTime":864.26,"body":"that's where I would go with"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":864.26,"endTime":864.65,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":866.36,"endTime":868.79,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":866.36,"endTime":868.79,"body":"much. And you're not unfamiliar"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":868.79,"endTime":872.09,"body":"to the podcast space. You"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":868.79,"endTime":872.09,"body":"actually also host a podcast"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":872.09,"endTime":874.91,"body":"about human and animal"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":872.09,"endTime":874.91,"body":"interaction. Can you share with"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":874.91,"endTime":877.25,"body":"our listeners, what they can"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":874.91,"endTime":877.25,"body":"learn from your podcast and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":877.25,"endTime":878.84,"body":"where they can find your"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":877.25,"endTime":878.84,"body":"podcast?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":879.92,"endTime":883.79,"body":"Sure that podcast is"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":879.92,"endTime":883.79,"body":"on that human animal"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":883.79,"endTime":890.51,"body":"interactions section website. So"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":883.79,"endTime":890.51,"body":"that is a section of the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":890.51,"endTime":894.47,"body":"American Psychological"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":890.51,"endTime":894.47,"body":"Association, but anybody can"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":894.47,"endTime":899.33,"body":"join and it's free to join. And"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":894.47,"endTime":899.33,"body":"then these podcasts are just"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":899.33,"endTime":903.02,"body":"short podcast about people's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":899.33,"endTime":903.02,"body":"research. It was really my way"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":903.02,"endTime":906.08,"body":"of, I really want to bring"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":903.02,"endTime":906.08,"body":"together practitioners and"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":906.08,"endTime":909.17,"body":"researchers. And because"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":906.08,"endTime":909.17,"body":"oftentimes they're kind of in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":909.17,"endTime":912.83,"body":"their own silos. And so I just"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":909.17,"endTime":912.83,"body":"wanted to people be able to talk"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":912.83,"endTime":917.24,"body":"casually about what research"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":912.83,"endTime":917.24,"body":"they do. And kind of bring those"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":917.24,"endTime":920.33,"body":"those worlds together of all the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":917.24,"endTime":920.33,"body":"people that are interested in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":920.33,"endTime":921.86,"body":"human animal interactions."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":921.0,"endTime":923.25,"body":"That's so cool."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":921.0,"endTime":923.25,"body":"I'm going to find it. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":923.25,"endTime":924.72,"body":"you can direct some of them our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":923.25,"endTime":924.72,"body":"way to JAVMA again. Laurie,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":924.72,"endTime":926.91,"body":"thank you. This is super"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":924.72,"endTime":926.91,"body":"important information for our"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":926.91,"endTime":928.47,"body":"practitioners. So thank you for"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":926.91,"endTime":928.47,"body":"sharing it with us at JAVMA."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":929.55,"endTime":939.36,"body":"Thank you. Thanks so"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":929.55,"endTime":939.36,"body":"much for having me."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":939.84,"endTime":943.89,"body":"Yeah, in order to"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":939.84,"endTime":943.89,"body":"get to where you are with, as"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":943.92,"endTime":948.39,"body":"Sarah said, advanced degrees and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":943.92,"endTime":948.39,"body":"just a wonderful career, you"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":948.39,"endTime":951.12,"body":"have to have what some people"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":948.39,"endTime":951.12,"body":"are calling resilience,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":951.12,"endTime":953.97,"body":"inspiration, determination,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":951.12,"endTime":953.97,"body":"where do you think yours came"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":953.97,"endTime":954.39,"body":"from?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":957.39,"endTime":960.6,"body":"Think, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":957.39,"endTime":960.6,"body":"sounds kind of corny, but I just"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":961.44,"endTime":964.35,"body":"think I just want to make the"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":961.44,"endTime":964.35,"body":"world a better place, you know."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":964.35,"endTime":967.86,"body":"And so that's what always seems"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":964.35,"endTime":967.86,"body":"to drive, you know, this one"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":967.86,"endTime":970.65,"body":"next study, or I think, gosh,"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":967.86,"endTime":970.65,"body":"this is really important to"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":970.65,"endTime":973.2,"body":"know, this could help kind of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":970.65,"endTime":973.2,"body":"move the needle in this"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":973.2,"endTime":978.33,"body":"important area. And that's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":973.2,"endTime":978.33,"body":"really super motivating to me."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":978.33,"endTime":983.07,"body":"So when people read my work, or"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":978.33,"endTime":983.07,"body":"they say, Well, you know, I did"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":983.07,"endTime":986.58,"body":"something based upon what you"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":983.07,"endTime":986.58,"body":"did, or what I read that you"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":986.58,"endTime":991.08,"body":"did. That's a ton of motivation"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":986.58,"endTime":991.08,"body":"to me. So it's so rewarding."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":991.65,"endTime":993.66,"body":"Yeah, it's great"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":991.65,"endTime":993.66,"body":"to be able to help people. So"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":993.69,"endTime":996.06,"body":"again, you've been you've"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":993.69,"endTime":996.06,"body":"impacted so many people with"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":996.39,"endTime":999.45,"body":"your manuscript and coming on"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":996.39,"endTime":999.45,"body":"this podcast. So thank you,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":999.45,"endTime":999.87,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1000.98,"endTime":1001.58,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1002.03,"endTime":1004.07,"body":"As we wind down,"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1002.03,"endTime":1004.07,"body":"we'd like to ask a little bit"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1004.07,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"more of a personal question. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1004.07,"endTime":1007.01,"body":"we always get some great answers"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1010.25,"body":"to this. What is the oldest of"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1007.01,"endTime":1010.25,"body":"the most interesting thing"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1010.25,"endTime":1011.99,"body":"either on or in your desk"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1010.25,"endTime":1011.99,"body":"drawer?"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1015.44,"endTime":1020.21,"body":"I think maybe one of"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1015.44,"endTime":1020.21,"body":"the oldest things is, is a"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1020.21,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"picture of my grandmother that I"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1020.21,"endTime":1024.95,"body":"keep in my drawer, because she"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1031.31,"body":"was a really important person in"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1024.95,"endTime":1031.31,"body":"my life. And she really brought"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1031.31,"endTime":1034.7,"body":"home the message to me, probably"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1031.31,"endTime":1034.7,"body":"because she told me a billion"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1034.7,"endTime":1038.6,"body":"times how important education"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1034.7,"endTime":1038.6,"body":"was and that it was this one"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1038.6,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"thing that nobody could ever"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1038.6,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"take away from you. And I really"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1047.24,"body":"took that to heart now. I don't"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1047.24,"body":"know whether she meant a PhD."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1048.41,"endTime":1052.7,"body":"But, um, but she was a huge"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1048.41,"endTime":1052.7,"body":"presence in my life. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1052.7,"endTime":1054.92,"body":"a picture of us together when I"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1052.7,"endTime":1054.92,"body":"was a kid."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1056.03,"endTime":1061.1,"body":"I remember my mom"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1056.03,"endTime":1061.1,"body":"saying, Are you ever gonna, when"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1061.1,"endTime":1063.56,"body":"are you gonna be done with"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1061.1,"endTime":1063.56,"body":"school, right? You do your"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1063.56,"endTime":1068.36,"body":"undergrad at that school, and"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1063.56,"endTime":1068.36,"body":"then a residency and then a PhD."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1068.36,"endTime":1071.36,"body":"And I was like, it's just"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1068.36,"endTime":1071.36,"body":"learning is just amazing."},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1071.36,"endTime":1074.54,"body":"Everyday is a school day. And"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1071.36,"endTime":1074.54,"body":"it's just we're really it's such"},{"speaker":"Lisa Fortier","startTime":1074.54,"endTime":1075.8,"body":"a wonderful career."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1077.45,"endTime":1081.26,"body":"Absolutely. I feel"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1077.45,"endTime":1081.26,"body":"so blessed. Yeah. You guys are"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1081.26,"endTime":1084.08,"body":"not alone. I've gotten that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1081.26,"endTime":1084.08,"body":"question a lot. They're like, so"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1084.08,"endTime":1088.13,"body":"when do you get a real job?"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1084.08,"endTime":1088.13,"body":"That's always the ask. We're"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1088.13,"endTime":1090.68,"body":"very, very fortunate. It's just"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1088.13,"endTime":1090.68,"body":"a phenomenal profession that"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1093.98,"body":"we're all a part of. And thank"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1093.98,"body":"you, Laurie, for sharing this"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1093.98,"endTime":1096.5,"body":"manuscript with JAVMA and for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1093.98,"endTime":1096.5,"body":"sharing your knowledge with our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1096.5,"endTime":1097.52,"body":"listeners today, too."},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1098.42,"endTime":1100.73,"body":"Well, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Lori Kogan","startTime":1098.42,"endTime":1100.73,"body":"much. It was wonderful."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1101.66,"endTime":1103.94,"body":"And to our"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1101.66,"endTime":1103.94,"body":"listeners, you can read Lori's"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1103.94,"endTime":1107.99,"body":"manuscript and print JAVMA or on"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1103.94,"endTime":1107.99,"body":"our journals website. I am Sarah"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1107.99,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"Wright with Lisa Fortier. We"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1107.99,"endTime":1110.57,"body":"want to thank each of you for"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.2,"body":"joining us on this episode of"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1110.57,"endTime":1114.2,"body":"the Veterinary Vertex podcast."},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1114.47,"endTime":1117.53,"body":"We love sharing cutting edge"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1114.47,"endTime":1117.53,"body":"veterinary research with you and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1117.53,"endTime":1120.08,"body":"we want to hear from you. Be"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1117.53,"endTime":1120.08,"body":"sure to leave us a rating and"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1120.08,"endTime":1122.66,"body":"review on Apple podcasts or"},{"speaker":"Sarah Wright","startTime":1120.08,"endTime":1122.66,"body":"whatever platform you listen to"}]}