Transformative B2B Referral Strategies, with Andrew Brown of Bridgemaker Referral Programs

In this episode of B2B Brand180,  Linda interviews Andrew Brown from Bridgemaker Referrals. Linda and Andrew discuss transformative strategies and innovative approaches in B2B branding, focusing on the power of referral sources. Andrew debunks common myths about B2B referrals and emphasizes the importance of selecting the right referral sources and setting goals. He shares insights from his book, 'Get Referred,' and provides a systematic approach to building effective referral programs. Key takeaways include who refers, why referrals happen, and how to overcome resistance to implementing referral programs.

02:00 The Power of Referrals in B2B
03:40 Debunking Referral Myths
07:39 Why Referrals Don't Happen
12:15 Building a Successful Referral Program
18:09 Rapid Fire Questions with Andrew

More information on Andrew: www.GetReferred.biz and his book https://www.amazon.com/Get-Referred-Increase-Sales-Velocity/dp/1068894601

Linda's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindafanaras/

Millennium Agency: Brand Strategy | Marketing | Web Design: https://mill.agency

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@mill.agency/

Linda's Books:
Claim Your White Space
https://www.amazon.com/CLAIM-YOUR-WHITE-SPACE-CRITICAL-ebook/dp/B0CLK8VLYV
Passion + Profits: Fueling Business And Brand Success
https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Profits-Fueling-Business-Success-ebook/dp/B0CLLDDSNX/

Transcript

Linda Fanaras 0:00

Welcome to the B2B Brand 180 podcast. This is a place where we focus on transformative strategies and innovative approaches in B2B branding. You'll learn how to make 180 degree shift in your marketing efforts or even complete reversals in strategies. You can start to make some pivotal shifts. and groundbreaking moves that redefine how you position yourself in the market. Hi, I'm Linda Feneres, today's host of the B2B Brand 180 podcast. And I'm excited to introduce Andrew Brown from Bridgemaker Referrals. And he's going to help us and help you make some pivotal changes in your marketing and lead generation efforts. So listen in and learn. Hi, Andrew. Thanks for coming in today. It's great to have you.

Andrew Brown 0:50

Hi, Linda. It's a pleasure to join you and your enthusiastic audience.

Linda Fanaras 0:54

So a little bit about Andrew. He is the father of the B2B Referral program and he's helped a multitude of organizations accelerate their sales and especially fast moving tech companies. Mm-Hmm. well established financial institutions, even professional service firms and just like US marketing agencies across the North America, he's also the author of Get Referred, how to Increase Sales Velocity, volume and Value, which is a reader friendly how to guide that instantly is usable by anyone. interested in generating revenue. And in less than two weeks, it became a number one best seller. So I'm excited to talk to you about that today, Andrew, but I'm going to start out what we're going to cover just so the audience knows. We'll talk about some B2B referrals. we'll talk about how customers don't like to share and really that transformative shift of what needs to get done to make these changes. I don't know if there's anything else you'd love to share with the audience before we get started,

Andrew Brown 1:56

you know Let's just get underway. I'm ready. Okay.

Linda Fanaras 1:59

Okay. Awesome. So let's start out with a real simple question So how how when and why do referrals actually happen in b2b? Can you talk about? Some of the common myths and whether they're true or not Sure,

Andrew Brown 2:12

just to to set the table Around referrals, because I'm going to answer those questions because they're so central. Let me just remind folks about the power of referrals. And to begin with, I just want to share some third party research about really the value of tapping into referral sources. So consider this, and this is all third party research that's been conducted over decades. Sixty nine percent of B2B companies find that deals move through the sales funnel faster. when they leverage the right referral source. That's pretty powerful. 59. So almost 60 percent of customers coming by a referral source have a measurably higher lifetime value than customers coming into B2B without a referral. And here's another. Another stunner, 71 percent of leads coming via referral sources are more likely to close than leads coming without a referral. So, that suggests, you know what, there's this incredible power, this unique channel that we should be using, so let's harness it. And to answer, so to answer your question. And it's, it's one that companies across industries struggle with how, when, and why do referrals actually happen in B2B. And it's really important to dispel some of those myths that, that you surface. So the myths are predominantly around who refers, why people refer and when people refer. So let me take each one of them at a time and then we'll, we'll blast the myth. So who? The myth is your current customers are going to refer you. However, the reality, professional colleagues, former clients, former employees, suppliers, prospective clients, often are more reliable sources than your existing customers. There are a couple of reasons. One, I call the babysitter effect, and if you've ever had a babysitter, you know how tightly you hold on to a babysitter, and you don't want their attention to go somewhere else on a Saturday night if you call them the last night. And the same thing happens with Company existing clients ago. Wait a sec. This company is awesome, but if I start telling other people about it, then you know what? They're going to show a little less love to me. They'll have less time, less bandwidth on me. So that's one reason. The other reason. That existing clients turn out to be far less far down the list in terms of active referral sources. It's that they know your warts. If you're a company that's had a client for a while, they have seen the bad and the good of you. No company's perfect. We know that. So they're reluctant to actually refer. So that speaks to the myth of who. Right. It's not going to be a your existing client. Right. When? When do people refer? The myth is that people will refer once they know your products and services, right? However, the reality is a bit more nuanced. They actually have to feel confident that there is a fit between you and the client. You're the organization you're targeting or the or the company that they're bringing so it's product or service as Well as culture one is not sufficient finally the why the big one Why aren't people referring to me? Why do they refer and the myth is and this is a big one It's all about money, right the reality we've done some Independent research as well. We did some research and got over 600 recipients in software as a service and professional and financial services. And we took a look at why people refer, and it turns out there's never a single reason. It's usually a cluster of motivations and that those motivations evolve over time. So that means that if you're just pushing that button, that money button, you are, you are potentially really damaging your relationship with potential referral sources. So that's who, when and why.

Linda Fanaras 6:39

And I can see for sure you see that babysitter perspective of, oh boy, I don't want to give up my great vendor that I have here. They may not give me the time and attention that I deserve if that happens. So I can see that. And it's interesting too, because I think, you know, on the referral side, it seems like companies or individuals, let me, excuse me, individuals, certain ones are more likely than others to make referrals. Some people just don't make referrals. I always call the people who are willing to do those super connectors. They're willing to connect you or your services to somebody else that's interested. And then you have those people that are like, no, I don't really have any, you know, I don't know anybody, or I'm just not. I don't have anybody I can refer. So it also seems to be part of who they are as well as who they are as a person.

Andrew Brown 7:28

So I'm going to address that by answering the question. Why do referrals not happen? Right? Because you're speaking about particular personality traits. And so let me tell you why referrals generally do not happen. So when we talked about step one, really, when programs are built on the myths that we just uncovered. But the second. Thing that is an obstacle is when the basics of what I call referral masks aren't followed. Now don't panic out out there. Right. I mean, I'm, I'm we all have to deal with math, but referral math is specific, but it's very. It's very intuitive as well. So if a referral source is going to refer, it's because they have three qualities and they have to have all three. This is where it's additive. They have to have the skills to refer. Okay. They have to have the willingness to refer, and they have to have the opportunity to refer. And if they don't have all three, then it's not going to work. I liken that, I mean, I'm going to date myself I used to watch Columbo, right? A TV cop investigator. They would always talk about motive means and opportunity. And it's very much the same thing. Now with referral program, the way that you optimize referrals referral sources is you identify the gaps that those people have, and then you fill those gaps, recognizing that no one out of the gate is necessarily going to have all of them. But as a referral manager, that's where you take the time and you say, you know what, we can actually assess where those gaps are, and we can make our referral sources wildly successful by providing them with the support they need.

Linda Fanaras 9:26

that makes sense. So what would you say, from your perspective, if you were to give me the top three? Three reasons why referrals do not happen, especially in the B to B sector where certain companies are expecting them. Can you sort of outline from your perspective what those three top reasons are? Well, I would, I

Andrew Brown 9:45

would typically say it's, it's, it's that they're built on the programs themselves are not built on the reality that that is, you know, The programs are out of step with who refers, why they refer, and when they refer. And then again, I would say they're focusing on people who don't have the right qualities or aren't thinking, how do we fill those gaps? So, When that happens you're going to invariably have a disconnect. Now companies often set up channel programs and they expect those. Those are resellers, right? Value added resellers. So, so very, very familiar model in order to go to market that the challenge with value added resellers, and this isn't taking away from the skills that they bring, but when they're selling, they're selling. You're one of several offerings in their quiver, right? They can choose several different offerings and the buyers. Of the service know that if you are recommending them, if you're a a value added reseller, your buyers know that you are probably recommending them because you get a higher commission rate. Right. Right, right, right. Buyers aren't silly. Mm-Hmm. They recognize this. So what typically happens, and I've managed a lot of channel programs, is that they're, they flatline pretty quickly unless there is an additional incentive. And then once you do that, once you set up a a channel program and you say, well, you know, we're going to pay at this time of year, we're going to give a boost. Well, your competitors, the comp, the competing vendors are also going to increase their commission. So you start escalating the price. It's on a never. Ending road to higher and higher commission so it becomes cost prohibitive. Whereas if you actually stood back and took a look at a handful of potential referral sources and activated it, activated them, understood them, nurtured them, help them be successful. It's a fraction of the price. And sometimes that's also one of the concerns or one of the reasons why referral programs don't work because there's that feeling like we have to scale and scale means more people, but no scaling actually just means working our resources better, not necessarily more and more people. Yes,

Linda Fanaras 12:14

it does. No, it makes complete sense. And I think for our audience today, because we're talking to the B2B audience and how they can improve and increase their sales opportunity, can you outline for them maybe a systematic way that they can start to use or build out referral sources to help build their business? I'd be

Andrew Brown 12:31

happy. My pleasure. Thank you for asking. And I would say that in my, in my book and get referred, it's a 30 years of experience building referral programs. And I exchanged that for hair. I gave up all my hair in order for the wisdom that I gained in pulling together these referral programs. I hope it was a good trade, but the book allows you to run a program. Independently, you can do it, you can set it off and the book also allows you to choose if you want to do it as a pilot project or if you want to actually hardwired into your organization. So depending on your degree of sophistication, you can read these sections and you can run a successful pilot project. And once you've done that, then people go, Ooh, I would tell me more. I want me some of that. And then you can look for the, the book helps or guides you with what you can do to hardwire. So the harnessing the unique power of referral sources to bring in desired sales It's obviously a it's a program. It takes time. However, let me give you sort of the step. So the first step, and I know this seems simple, but selecting initial goals. For each referral source that you're actually choosing and referral managers. So it's not just your, your targets. I want to increase revenue by experts percent, but you actually want to drill it down to each referral source that you choose. And you want to be able to break those goals down to each source. In chunkable terms to make it realistic and have that discussion with referral sources and the referral manager who's managing referral sources should also have some goals. So step one, select initial goals, right? To get get referral ready. I mean, when you ask, when you ask a referral source to. represent you to advocate for you to qualify for you, you're asking them to put their reputation on their line, right, right. So you have to have your house in order, in order to legitimately ask that of something. So you have to get referral, referral ready. And that's quantify, check your actual reputation with key stakeholders, make sure you have capacity to take in the influx of business that comes via a referral source channel and have good reporting. Onboarding for new clients. So if you take those, those are meaty things, but getting referral ready is a key component. So that's the second one. Then you want to evaluate potential referral sources. Now, again, we talked earlier about who refers, so we have to break out of that mindset of it's just existing clients, but we have to identify a list of candidates. We go through our orbit of people that we know, and we, we start examining, do we think they have the right skills, willingness? an opportunity. Again, as I said, not everyone's going to have all three out of the gate. In the book, you actually have included your, the interview guide to help you. Do that kind of evaluation. Then once you've got a set, and again, you'll probably focus on three or four referral sources that you say, Oh, you know what? We can support them. Then you want to arm them with those assets, with those opportunities, with those programs, with that structure that they need in order to be successful. That's four. Activate is really the secret sauce of a referral program. It's the how an organization supports the person managing a managed referral program and the chosen referral sources. And that's, I go into great depth of that in the book and hopefully I give some good examples. But it's really about treating people with a certain amount of. Dignity and respect and integrity and a whole bunch of behaviors. And so I encourage people to check that. But that secret sauce is about how you engage with your referral sources. Then you want to measure results. Of course, and you want to measure results and then you want to hone the program so you're have you have a combination of regular and ad hoc monitoring that you have so you could have them when you when they bring new people what when they're coming to you and they're saying I'm having a tough time so you can be responsive but you also want to have a regular cadence of touching base with your referral sources because they are In essence, even more important, and this is a bit of a paradigm or mind shift, they're more important than clients because they're a gateway and they're an extension of your reputation. So they're actually more important to your top line revenue than your clients because they are so powerful and so unique and so connected. And now you're managing them and they are so appreciative and so powerful. So that those are the seven steps. Yeah. And again, okay. In the book, there's plenty of detail. I wanted to make sure that everyone had enough to be able to hang, hang on and go out tomorrow and start getting a program going

Linda Fanaras 18:05

worse. No, that's great. Thank you, Andrew. So this is, this is what I'm going to do next. I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions. Less than two to three sentences. So do we have an agreement?

Andrew Brown 18:18

You think that Andrew could shut up?

Linda Fanaras 18:19

Yes, I'll do my best. Okay, awesome. All right, so we'll get started. So we want to get the audience some really good answers here. So number one, so what is the biggest error people make when establishing their B2B referral programs?

Andrew Brown 18:32

Okay, so in addition to making those outdated assumptions of who, why, and what why, who, when, and why referrals happen? I'd say the other greatest error is adopting a hope for the best strategy and then taking anything that comes in regardless, whether it's right or the right time. Acting this way tells your referral sources that they're doing a great job. even though they're not. So I'd say don't do that. Spend time. Be be authentic with your referral sources.

Linda Fanaras 19:00

Great. So given how effective B to B referral sources out of the top line, what causes companies to resist rolling out this referral program?

Andrew Brown 19:09

Right. So this speaks to the hard wiring. So, let me answer this question by identifying three things that can help an organization overcome resistance to adopting a referral program. So first, provide a business case, right? We talked earlier on about some of the top line, the real benefits. So provide a business case to allocate responsibility for the program. Supervisors love to be able to have someone accountable and three demonstrate alignment with your sales, marketing, business development, product marketing. So get that alignment and the referral program is more likely to take root in an organization.

Linda Fanaras 19:48

Great. So when you were writing your book, what do you think the biggest surprises that you unearthed when you were actually in the process of putting together Get Referred?

Andrew Brown 19:57

Hmm. So on a business front, I was surprised by how many disappointing referral strategies are still being deployed, particularly sort of that ad hoc or hope for the best and the value added for you to sell their program. So that's on the business on a personal front. I've been fortunate to have received a lot of support from people and organizations across industries who wanted a systematic way of really harnessing the unique power of referral sources to help them achieve business. goals. So that's been very gratifying.

Linda Fanaras 20:32

Awesome. Great. And the last question is, is how has the book been received by the marketing and sales professionals that are out there?

Andrew Brown 20:38

Ever since the book was was launched, it's held several numbers, number one spots in Amazon, yay, including business selling and sales techniques and marketing and the reviews I'm getting from across North America have been, once again, very gratifying. And what's even more exciting and a bit humbling is that some of the more recognized thought leaders in sales and business Business development and alliances and like ABM and marketing are actually reaching out to me and we're having some great discussion. So like this discussion that we're having today. So I am very grateful. I don't take it for granted. So it's just, I've just been very fortunate that I've hit a nerve. People say, I mean, we're You know, we've we've come used to social media and social marketing, and that's all about leveraging important third parties to act on our behalf. And that's what I really wanted to harness and help B2B marketers really get exceptional at.

Linda Fanaras 21:35

That's awesome. Great. Thank you, Andrew. So I just want to take a moment here and thank our audience for listening in. And Andrew, thanks so much for coming in today from Bridgemaker Referral Programs and speaking about your book, which has been Get Referred, which is a phenomenal book. And I think it's great for the audience to check that out. But I would love for you to share how people can get in touch with you and then I'll see Awesome.

Andrew Brown 21:59

Thank you. So let me also extend to you, Linda, if you would like, we can make a handful of books available to your listeners. So if people write it into you and they're showing interest, let me know. I'm happy to provide them with some books. Okay. So that's my thank you to you and people can get in contact. with me by going to get referred dot biz or send me an email at Andrew B at get referred dot biz or jump onto LinkedIn and start a conversation. I always love to have chats with enthusiastic, talented B to B folks. So I welcome

Linda Fanaras 22:37

that. That's

Andrew Brown 22:37

great. Thank

Linda Fanaras 22:38

you very much, Andrew. So again, I just want to thank our audience. today for listening into the B to B Brand 180 podcast. And again, I appreciate all your insights on sharing with our audience on how they can improve their lead generation strategies through referrals. And these are transformable, transformative strategies and innovative approaches that can help marketers and salespeople really make that 180 degree shift. So if you'd like to get in touch with myself, You can connect with me on LinkedIn, or you can email me at lfanaris at mil, M I L L dot agency, or feel free to check out our website at M I L L dot agency. And again, thank you. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Thanks again for listening to the B2B Brand 180 podcast.