The Curiosity Edge: Turn Quiet Quitters into High-Performance Teams with Dr. Debra Clary

In this episode of the B2B Brand180 Podcast, Linda sits down with Dr. Debra Clary, leadership strategist, TEDx speaker, former Fortune 500 executive, and author of The Curiosity Curve, to explore why curiosity has become one of the most misunderstood yet powerful drivers of performance in modern organizations.

The conversation breaks down how disengagement quietly takes hold inside companies, why many leaders unintentionally suppress curiosity, and how embedding it into daily leadership behaviors directly impacts innovation, retention, and results. Dr. Clary shares the Curiosity Curve framework and the single most important lever leaders can pull to shift culture in 2026 and beyond.

01:36 The Curiosity Curse and Why Engagement Quietly Collapses
02:21 The Four Factors Behind the Curiosity Curve Framework
04:27 How Embedding Curiosity Drives Real Business Results
05:26 Building a High-Curiosity Culture in 2026
07:35 The Biggest Cultural Mover Leaders Consistently Miss
08:03 Rapid Fire: Curiosity, Leadership, and Culture Shifts

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drdebraclary/

https://debraclary.com/

Linda's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindafanaras/

Millennium Agency: Brand Strategy | Marketing | Web Design: https://mill.agency

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@mill.agency/

Linda's Books:
Claim Your White Space
https://www.amazon.com/CLAIM-YOUR-WHITE-SPACE-CRITICAL-ebook/dp/B0CLK8VLYV
Passion + Profits: Fueling Business And Brand Success
https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Profits-Fueling-Business-Success-ebook/dp/B0CLLDDSNX/

Transcript

Linda Fanaras: 

Welcome to the B2B Brand 180 Podcast. Today we'll be packed with dynamic strategies to make a 180-degree shift in your branding and growth plans. I'm Linda Fanaras, the CEO of Millennium Agency, and your host today. Today I am excited to bring in Dr. Debra Clary. She is a leadership strategist, a TED speaker, a former executive at Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Jack Daniels and Humana, and she's the author of a new book, the Curiosity Curve, which was published in 2025. So welcome, Debra. It's great to have you here today. I'm looking forward to our conversation. I think we'll be able to get a lot covered.

Debra Clary: 

Thank you, Linda. Thank you for having me. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Today's takeaway, just so our audience knows, is why curiosity is a proven antidote to quiet, quitting and disengagement, and the four-factor curiosity curve framework that drives innovation and revenue and the single most powerful daily actions leaders can take to ignite curiosity across their teams. So my first question, Debra, is from driving a Frito-Lay truck to the C-suite, how did curiosity become sort of the through line of your extraordinary career? 

Debra Clary: 

I had parents that modeled curiosity. Of course I didn't know it until I got much older, but my parents were very adventurous and at the same time they had a very high work ethic and education was important to them. And I think that blend, it just embedded in me that continuously be looking around the curve and looking what comes next. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Yeah, that's great. What is curiosity curse and why it’s silently killing the performance in a lot of these organizations today? 

Debra Clary: 

I started down this path of asking myself those same questions, and I had this hypothesis that what was missing in organizations was curiosity, but it was just a hypothesis. But I like data. So I commissioned a group of researchers to ask and find out about one question, and that question was, “What is the relatedness between leadership, curiosity and performance?” And three months later they came back and said, there is a direct correlation between these variables. So meaning that if a leader has a high level of curiosity and they create a culture of curiosity, that performance increases. 

Linda Fanaras: 

No, that's great. So I know you have four factors around the curiosity curve, and can you just walk us through how leaders could apply them in the real world teams? 

Debra Clary: 

Yeah, and how we came upon these four factors is after we discovered that curiosity was the missing piece in organizations, we were very proud of ourselves. And then we said, wait, how do we measure it? No one's going to take us seriously unless we can actually measure it. We went back and created a validated diagnostic tool that measures a current level of curiosity. And in that measurement are four factors, exploration, inspirational creativity, openness to new ideas, and focused engagement. So all of us possess these, but some of us skew higher on one over another. And the whole purpose of taking assessments, no matter what assessment it is, is better understanding self and better understanding my team members so that we can work better together.  

So in the four factors, one exploration, so you're working with someone that's in the exploration mode is because they're way out there. They're saying, I'm wondering about this, and what about that? They're out there exploring. So you're dealing with someone that is an explorer. Or inspirational creativity is if someone says, you know what? I was reading the Wall Street Journal and then I was reading People magazine, and I made this connection to that connection. So there are people that are taking information from different industries. And then openness to new ideas are those that when you go to them and say, I have this idea, they say, tell me more. And the last one is focus engagement. And this is why it's called the curiosity curve is because focus engagement is once you've explored, had these ideas and that focus engagement is actually executing against it. And so when we understand from a team perspective where people fall on the curiosity curve, it accelerates the conversation, it deepens our relationship with them. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Yes. So that makes complete sense. So how does embedding curiosity actually deliver results in sort of innovation or employee retention and revenue growth?  

Debra Clary: 

We realized that the hypothesis true, there was this correlation. We went back and said, okay, specifically how does it drive performance? And we found that organizations that have a high level of curiosity had greater engagement, they had higher job satisfaction, and they had higher retention, and those variables directly relate into performance. We also found that organizations that have high levels of curiosity actually have 80% higher retention than those organizations that don't. So employees are telling us we want to be in an organization where our opinion matters that we have an opportunity to contribute. And what leaders need to do is ask questions and listen. 

Linda Fanaras: 

And listen more probably is a big factor, I would think. So what would you say the first action a leader could take in 2026 to start building a high curiosity culture and how do they know if it's actually working? 

Debra Clary: 

So the first thing, in order to create a culture of curiosity, you have to first be in its presence. And what I mean by that, the individual, the leader has to themselves be curious. And so first it starts with a mindset of going in and saying, today I am open to learning. I'm open to understanding others' points of view. So it starts with that mindset. The second thing is that when somebody asks you a question, especially if you're in a group, you're in a team meeting and they ask you a question, the best thing you can say as a leader is, I don't know, because what you're demonstrating there is vulnerability. 

And then the next thing is let's explore it together. And so then the team is like, oh, normally they're giving us direction and now they're actually asking for our input in that. So it's this one of let's talk about it together. The next thing is reward people that ask questions. People, when they start to ask the questions, they'll say one A, can I ask a question? No, just ask the question. And then two is, this might be a stupid question. And then what do we say? There's no stupid questions, right? It's just the sense of embrace it and reward people that are willing to challenge the status quo, are willing to ask a question, and embrace it and create an environment where people feel like, wow, I can really have a voice here. 

Linda Fanaras: 

That's awesome. So I'm sure your book kind of covers a lot of this and it almost sounds like how you inject curiosity into a culture in a way that is sustainable for the long term. And that sometimes will take time, I would think, and just a whole other mindset of the leaders to be able to implement and then sort of stay on track or maybe even in some cases change their ways. Is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience today? 

Debra Clary: 

So one of the things that I have found in work doing this the last two years is that when people take the assessment and they understand themselves in others and that they understand that the leader does want to create a culture of curiosity, this is when I've seen the biggest movement when they understand current state and future state. And so curiosity can be learned and curiosity is contagious. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Yeah, that's great. I bet a lot of people don't think that's actually the case. So I would love to ask you what I call five rapid fire questions. Just to answer in just a few sentences would be great. I think it helps our audience really get a good gauge of how this all works. So my first one is, what's the biggest myth leaders believe about curiosity in business? 

Debra Clary: 

That it's a luxury. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Yeah, great. One question every leader should ask in every meeting starting tomorrow? 

Debra Clary: 

What is it that we've not thought of that we should be? 

Linda Fanaras: 

Okay. What's the fastest way to shut down curiosity on a team? 

Debra Clary: 

We've tried this before. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Okay. And what's the most surprising business outcome you've seen from curiosity alone?  

The awareness that curiosity is a strategic advantage.  

And lastly, one daily habit that instantly raises your personal curiosity? 

Debra Clary: 

Is when someone tells me something and I'm not quite sure, I always say, oh, interesting. Tell me more. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Right. Excellent. Well, Debra, thank you for proving curiosity isn't soft, it's the sharpest competitive edge in leadership today. I'd love for you to talk about ‘Curiosity Curve’ a little bit and how individuals can connect directly with you. 

Debra Clary: 

Yeah, absolutely. So hopefully the listeners by now are saying, oh my gosh, I want to learn more about curiosity. And so on my website, you can also take the assessment. There's a free assessment for you. It takes about six or eight minutes. You'll understand your current level of curiosity. And my website is just debraclary.com and you can find all of my contact information there. You can book a call just to have a conversation around what you're curious about. 

Linda Fanaras: 

Perfect. Thank you for listening in today. And if you love this episode, please hit like, share, comment, or subscribe. And if you're ready for your team to accelerate their marketing and growth strategies, visit us at mill.agency or lindafanaras.com and we'll see you in the next episode.