The Readirect Podcast
Shifting the conversation back to books. Hosted by Abigail Freshley and Emily Rojas.
The Readirect Podcast
Book Club: The Pairing by Casey McQuiston
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What happens when childhood friends reunite on a European food and wine tour? Join us as we explore this story of second chances and personal growth, while also celebrating McQuiston's knack for creating relatable, complex characters.
We really liked this interview with Casey McQuiston in Rolling Stone. Abigail also recommends pairing this book with the Somm documentary.
Books We Read Recently:
- We Solve Murders by Richard Osman
- A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn
- You're the Problem, It's You by Emma Alban
We'd also recommend chasing this episode with our book club episode covering Red, White, and Royal Blue, also by Casey McQuiston.
As always, we'd love for you to join us on our Instagram and TikTok at @readirectpodcast.
Book Clubbing With the Pairing
Speaker 1Welcome to the Redirect Podcast . My name is Abigail Freshly and I'm Emily Rojas .
Speaker 2The Redirect Podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books . We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes show up in real lived experiences .
Speaker 1On today's episode we're book clubbing . A mutual favorite summer read the Pairing by Casey McQuiston .
Speaker 2But first , if you've been enjoying the podcast , we would humbly ask that you support us in a few very , very simple ways . First , you can leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know that you love the show .
Speaker 1We'd also love for you to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Redirect Podcast . And finally , if you really really like the show , we'd love for you to share it with a friend . Sharing our show with a friend is by far the best way to help us grow our community of book-loving nerds .
Speaker 2And here we are . We're back .
Speaker 1We are back after many trials and tribulations trying to record this episode , but we are here and we're going to do a different episode about scary books . But then we realized that we don't really read scary books . That's true , we don't read a lot of scary books .
Speaker 2So we decided we wanted to talk about a book that we've just been talking about organically anyway , because we both really love it yeah , I always feel like book clubs are great because when we do our little recommendations , at the end you just I feel like you don't get to , like I've been dying to talk about this more and we don't get to as much when it's just that little and you don't want to give too much away , but in in the book club episodes , it's like we can do full spoilers , talk about every aspect of the entire book and everything we liked , everything we disliked , all the plot points . So that's why I'm excited to do this .
Speaker 1Um , and obviously , I love this book and so , to that end , like this is a really good book , you should read it , yeah , and like maybe go read it instead of like read it first and then listen to it to this because we're going to spoil it we're absolutely going to spoil it , or if you don't feel like this isn't your kind of book , then just listen to this and enjoy and feel like you know what's going on .
Speaker 1So either way , it's fine yes , so this book is by casey mcquiston . I don't know if they've written more than these three books , but their three most well-known books are Red , white and Royal Blue . One Last Stop and now this is the Pairing .
Speaker 2I believe they have a few other books , but yeah , those are definitely the most popular and I have loved all three books that I've read by Casey McQuiston . You famously did not like One Last Stop as much , but we did . This is one of our very first podcast episodes was book clubbing Red White and Royal Blue right before the Amazon Prime movie came out . So that was kind of my first intro . Actually , I think I read One Last Stop first , but it was around that same time , so that was my introduction to Casey McQuiston and since I love both those books , I felt like I had to buy this one and I had my doubts . Honestly , I did see some people who didn't love this book as much as me , but I should have known .
Speaker 2I should have known this book was made for me . I feel like honestly , people don't like I mean we're diving in . I guess I feel like a lot of people don't like exes to lovers . I don't feel like a lot of people like second chance romances .
Speaker 1That is true . However , I was pitching this book to some friends the other day and I mentioned that it was second chance , and then one of my friends was like , okay , wait , but is it second chance with enough time for them to have grown in between ? I think when people don't like second chance , they don't like when a couple broke up and then got back together but nothing like right away .
Speaker 1Yeah , I agree like nothing has changed . That would informed , like the circumstances , that informed why they broke up in the first place . So now you're just like , okay , well , I'm unsatisfied with the pairing like I'm unsatisfied , yeah there's no like . There's like big foundational issues , right totally agree .
Speaker 2Um , although I also like that , like I don't mind , but I do think this is this . Give it a chance . Even if you don't like second chance romance because there is four years in between , um , so do you want to just dive into a plot summary , since we're talking about it already .
Speaker 1Yes , so the main characters are Theo and Kit .
Speaker 1The book , the first half of the book , is from Theo's point of view and the second half of the book picks up like chronologically right where Theo's point of view left off and it switches to Kit's point of view view left off and it switches to kids point of view . And essentially this is a pair of childhood friends who grew up and dated each other in their early adult years and then , based on a bit of a miscommunication and also some just like personal differences and like ways that they needed to grow , they had a breakup and they did not communicate for four years . But when they broke up they were en route to , or en route to , a food and wine tour of Europe to do together , and neither one of so they couldn't get the trip refunded , but they had to use the tickets within the next four years or they expired and they both happened to do the tour on the last month possible . And they are on this tour together and they're one of the only two single people Not single , but the only two people who went Solo traveling .
Speaker 1And so they're kind of thrust back into each other's lives on the trip . That was the impetus for their breakup .
Speaker 2Yes , and along the way , they initiate this kind of evil scheme to see who can hook up with the most people on the trip . Uh , which is an insane thing to do with someone you are deeply in love with . Just right .
Speaker 1It's like a way that they are like channeling their sexual frustration and like desire from one another into other people and like wanting to um , like deny themselves the person they really want to be with , but also to like kind of make them jealous , like it's . It's definitely not very productive , no , um , but this is by far casey mcquiston's horniest book , for sure in the sense of like the tension and like just the the mindset of these two is like they really want to be with each other and they just like are denying themselves and denying themselves and it's like a horrible torture .
Speaker 1Um , and also they're . So this book is amazing for people who love travel . Um , for people who love angst and yearning as Emily so famously loves yearning and who love food , this is like the most amazing food and wine book the descriptions of food , the descriptions of wine . So Theo is a sommelier and um Kit is a baker .
Speaker 1And so they're both really into this . Um , they're like , they're both very passionate about it , and the tour like starts in Paris , right ? Uh-huh , yeah , yeah , it's Paris . And then it also goes through a couple other places in France , through San Sebastian and northern Spain , madrid , barcelona , and then goes to Italy and all the way down , like starting in northern Italy and then all the way down to Sicily , where the food and wine tour concludes . Yes , oh my God , the descriptions of food alone . I could probably just read a book about descriptions of food . Yes , and like that would be good . Like , remove the rest of the cookbook .
Speaker 2I read that off , I read . I like reading entire cookbooks from cover to cover . So this is like that , but like with the most intense yearning and sexual tension you could possibly imagine .
Speaker 1So what could I ask for ? And , like Casey McQuiston , so masterfully , like weaves in , like the sexual tension , with also the sensuality of food and wine and travel . The sense of place is so strong throughout the book . The sense of place is so strong throughout the book . You really feel like you're in these different settings and you can visualize , smell , taste , touch and feel all of the places that they are . I think , on their journey of authorhood , it seems that they have grown a lot since the earlier books that they've written . This was just really well . Well written on its own . Aside from like the very addictive plot , yeah , and something that is just like inherently readable , it's also like , really masterfully done .
Speaker 2It could have been written in a much poorer way and I still would have really liked it totally , that's how good , the plot is , but the the like quality of writing takes it to the next level yeah , I was gonna say that , like I think the description of it I was expecting , um , like I just really like casey mcquiston okay , so I knew I would like it and I like a second chance romance , so like all those things I knew I would like . But I was kind of expecting something a little more like like frivolous or , you know , like light-hearted maybe or I don't know , like like a little snack , but nothing with any depth . I was expecting that because , like the plot just sounds like it's more like surface level , um , purely like a physical attraction type of thing where they're doing this like hookup challenge or whatever , uh , but it was like shockingly very emotional and , um , their friendship was very emotional . Like the parts where they were flashing back to some of their childhood memories together was very , very emotional for me and especially just like I really thought of that as like I mean not to go on a whole other tangent , but there was something about their friendship that was really really nice , because I feel like I value my lifelong friends , your lifelong friend , and like that part rang true with no romantic intention of it , you know , like there was just such a genuine friendship between them and those things were making me emotional , like Kit's mom passing away and how Theo was there for him during the death of his mom , and like his estranged father and just those kind of things were were already emotional on their own , even if there was no romance , right , even if this was just a story about two friends reconnecting . And then , like the exes thing was also surprisingly emotional .
Speaker 2Um , just like there was a lot of depth to this book and the writing , like you said , was so good . Like the descriptions were so good , um , just like the gut punches . Like there was so many parts where I was just like clack clutching my chest , like , oh my gosh , that just punched me in the throat with my feelings , you know . So I thought like the writing has definitely improved . Um , I think casey and quiston's always been really good with like these concepts like red , white and royal blue is really fun . One last stop is kind of interesting , like a magical realism thing . Um , but I think this is definitely their best executed work for sure .
Speaker 1It's just really really well written a quote that I had highlighted um to pull out for this episode . This is when , honestly , I can't even tell you which character is speaking . I'm pretty sure it's kit , but I returned the book to the library and I can only see the note I made in my kindle . Sure , but basically this is kit describing um like how they haven't , like how he hasn't stopped loving theo but has been denying himself um like the pleasure of falling in love and like or like expressing his love for .
Speaker 1Theo uh-huh . And this is the description from Casey McQuiston . He says uh Kit says love took root in me before I learned its name and I've sat in its shade for so long now without eating its fruit . This feels as if I've finally taken a piece into my hands and split it open .
Speaker 2It is so sweet inside that is a perfect quote because it has the like , the fruit , the food metaphor and it's just so nice , it's so nice , yeah , and this idea of like .
Speaker 1You're sitting in the like , the shadow . You're sitting in the shade of this love that you have for someone , but you aren't able to enjoy it you're just you're sitting in this reality like the .
Speaker 1The way that it , like that metaphor , paints a picture is incredible . Yes , another thing about this book is that so Theo's POV is first , and it's kind of alluded to through Theo's point of view that they are non-binary , but it's never stated yeah . And then in the second half of the book , kit is using she , her pronouns to think about Theo , until Theo has a conversation with Kit where they're like hey , I don't think I'm a woman , I think I'm . I don't know if Theo even says non-binary , yeah , yeah , I think , maybe , I think so , I think someone says they use , they them pronouns .
Speaker 2Yes , or they've started transitioning to using those with some close friends or whatever .
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's like the chillest possible scenario . Yeah , and then Kit is like , okay , yeah . Yeah , and I really loved that like approach . So Casey McQuiston writes queer books . Casey McQu ? Um also identifies as non-binary . All their books center um queer characters in some way and it's like one thing that I really enjoy about their writing is that they don't make the trauma of being queer the center of the queer story .
Speaker 1It's just a story about queer people without centering like the pain of um , like being rejected when you transition or you come out , or like the oppression that you feel , like those things are true , but also like a queer person's life is not quarantined to , like just their trauma yeah , I really .
Speaker 2I read this full interview with casey mcquiston in rolling stone , um , that just came out prior to the release of this book and I'll link it in the show notes . But they were talking about um writing red , white and royal blue and how they at that time were not out as non-binary to like their friends and maybe to some friends , but not to their family . And they realize like , oh , I'm gonna have to talk about why I wrote a queer romance and I feel like that's gonna make me have to say that I actually do identify as part of this community and , um , I'm not . I have to come out to my family first , like before this book out , basically . And so then they talked about how that experience really inspired this book of like Theo's journey and like it's heavily inspired by their own journey , as you know , discovering their identity and then coming out to people they're close to .
Exploring Gender and Romance Norms
Speaker 2Like this quote , um , where they said people seem so doubtful that trans and queer romance can exist in this pleasure space of romance and simply be there to exist , where they're not teaching you a lesson , they're not opening your mind , they're simply there in the way everyone else is there . In the eyes of publishing , relatability is key . They see everyone who picks up a romance book a straight cis white woman who's 35 , has two kids , a husband listens to taylor swift . They think that person is incapable of imagining or relating to experiences outside of her own and I don't find that to be true .
Speaker 2I just really liked that because , again , like I don't identify obviously as non-binary , but this was such an interesting , like you said , the first part . You get like hints of theo's um journey like they talk about maybe like style changes they've made or like internal changes they've made , but they don't especially or like specifically call out like I am now non-binary . But then you get in a kid's perspective then Theo coming out and it's like it's just so nice . If you have no experience with that , you really can understand a lot more of like what that experience would be like in a non-traumatic way . Like you said , it is just a part of this book that isn't even the main part . It's just this little side plot that's just integral to who Theo is as a character as they come back together that , like Kit , is someone Theo feels comfortable being themselves around in that , like now they feel like they can be more open with each other , but like it's not the main thing and it's not a traumatic thing like you said .
Speaker 1One thing I really appreciate about kind of normalizing Theo's experience is that all of us , no matter how we identify on the gender spectrum , express our gender in a range of ways . For some of us our gender is on a larger spectrum , or I guess a wider spectrum of the way that we like to express ourselves .
Speaker 1And for some people it's on a more narrow spectrum and it may be like far to one extreme . So , you know , there are some people who identify as a woman and express that through their clothing , really , like wearing dresses and pants and , you know , maybe like things that , um , are traditionally a little bit more masculine , but they still identify as a woman . Well , they don't have to be non-binary to decide , like , how you want to express yourself on this wide spectrum of gender . Yeah , and , like you know , same for people who identify as men .
Speaker 1Yeah , and so it's just kind of normalizing this idea of the way that you express yourself . Like you know , like Harry Styles does a photo shoot wearing like a tutu and nail polish and it's like a more broadly acceptable , I guess , because he still identifies as a man and you see him pronounced the best that we know as a man , and you see him pronounced the best that we know , but , like it seems otherized , if you would like , if you come out and say that you're non-binary . But it's just that you have this wider set of data points that are like wider set of expressions that you might use to express yourself in the way that you feel on the inside , and so I appreciate how like chill it was talked about . Yeah , because it is chill , it's something that everyone does .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think that's what I'm trying to say is like everyone or I think that's what Casey McQuiston was trying to say in her interview too Like everyone can relate to these experiences of like figuring out who you are , coming into your own identity , you know , changing how you express yourself in the world , changing how people perceive you , and falling in love and getting your heart broken , and like those things can be universal , even if your experience isn't exactly this . And I think it's so easy to other people when you don't understand or you don't know anyone and like this . Books like this are great because it's like oh , theo is just like a normal person and is experiencing things this exact same way I do . And it's almost even kind of sneaky because like you don't know the whole time .
Speaker 1And then you're like oh , theo , and it's like you know a little way to just experience that , without really knowing , you're even experiencing it yeah , and like I mean um in this book , kit is cisgendered , but they're both . They both identify as bisexual and that's something that they both identified as before theo um began identifying as non-binary and it's also just so casually mentioned and like just kind of so it just doesn't you like in the way that these two characters talk about it . You would never be like , well , how do you know ? It's just like we hear them , that we see their internal thoughts about the other one and the thoughts are never like I like kit because he's a boy , you know . It's like oh my gosh , like this feature of Kit , I love so much . This feature of Theo , I love so much . I love their hair .
Speaker 1They seem even more like them the way that they look on the outside really expresses the things I love about them on the inside , and that's all of any of us are really doing . Anyway , you know what I mean . It's like I don't think in my head like , oh , I love my husband because he's a man , yeah , I love my husband because he's he yeah , exactly , and so it's just like it's just kind of very subtly and a very like approachable way .
Speaker 1And it's just kind of very subtly and a very like approachable way , just kind of like deconstructing these ideas of like these kind of made up categories that we invented , yeah , and in a very lovely way . Yes , that like in so many ways , like both of these characters are approaching all of the world around them using their senses , yeah , like the things that they smell , taste , see , feel , and they're just doing that with each other too , which is a really cool way when , especially like for casey mcquiston to describe it , especially like up against this backdrop , drop of them like experiencing food and wine and culture . Yeah , totally agree great discussion um .
Speaker 2I also want to talk about the dual dual povs so it starts off .
Speaker 2The first part starts off with , like we said , theo's perspective and there's one little page or a couple pages it's like , um , the beginning from , uh , theo's pov , theo's version , as it's called , which was very Taylor Swift vibes , and the end it's Theo's version , and I love this actually . And then it's the same thing halfway through the book . I think it's after they kiss for the first time is that , yeah , they kiss for the first time ? And it switches to um , kids perspective and it does the exact same thing . There's one page it's like , uh , the beginning kids version and the end kids version , and neither time does it actually really tell you what happened between them , um , but , like it , even the beginning , like it's talking about the beginning of the relationship .
Speaker 2Theo talks about the first time they kissed um and that experience and what happened . And then the end theo talks about like immediately after they decided to break up , um , but you still don't really know why . And then , when you go over to kit's version , if I can find it , the beginning , um , like kit's version he talks about like the beginning of his life , and then he talks about meeting theo for the first time as a child . And then the end , um , he talks about like kind of some events that led up to their big fight , that ended it , and so it's like just I just really liked that feature .
Speaker 2I don't know why , but I just liked the . It's gave like a really nice transition in between the two and I like how the because I like it when it's like an alternating pov . Like every other chapter I really like that . But this was kind of even more amazing because the whole first half of the book you don't know what kid's thinking yes , and then all of a sudden you're just thrown in and he is like the most in love with theo that any person has ever been , ever much , and to the point that it's like , oh , theo , like it's still figuring stuff out about if they love Kit and like .
Speaker 1Kit has still in the restaurant .
Speaker 2Yeah , he never left help , I'm still in the restaurant . You don't know that because , like , theo's perspective of Kit is not necessarily the full story , and so I just I really really liked that as a way to structure this book . And then I also just liked , like , again speaking to the writing of Casey McQuiston , like the writing was different . Like Kit is much more like poetic and expressive . Kit is such a poetic boy .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , he's quoting poetry all the time sensitive , soft white , and the writing changed , though like even the internal dialogue was different , and I just , it was just so immersive , this entire book , like you felt like you were in theo's mind , and then you felt like you're in kit's mind and I , just , I like I was amazed by the dual perspective of this book .
Speaker 1I know it was so great and I was texting , we were texting about that and I was like I want a tv show or a movie of this , but I don't even know if they could do it , because you're gonna like part of the magic . A big part of the magic is the dual povs and thinking different ways . Yeah , and I just have no idea how you would capture that no in a movie or a tv show .
Speaker 2It would be hard but I would still love it just for the like . Honestly , just the the imagery of this book , I know like okay .
Speaker 1So , speaking of which , what was your favorite location that they traveled to ?
Speaker 2I was seeing this in in the notes that you put this question and I was thinking about it and I think obviously I liked a lot of the locations better for a lot of reasons . But I liked starting in Paris a lot , probably partially because that's the one place I've been to of all these places , but also like just a great choice to start because at the time , um , when they first meet again , kit is living in paris . And to start like in his home , um , like his , he's on home , I don't know the home team not gonna sportsman , his , his , uh , he's on .
Speaker 1Yeah , home field advantage yeah home field advantage .
Speaker 2He uh like you get to see him in his element , which is like one perspective of what his life has been like , and theo is able to kind of write this whole imaginary world for him . That may or may not be true , but I just liked that , that he like he has his friends , he like knows things , like he's taking control of these situations and , um , I really liked that . Uh , I like that as a starting place , so I'll say that's my favorite place , um , but I liked a lot of the other places too . Like it was all sounded so beautiful and made me want to go to all of these other locations . What was your favorite location ?
Speaker 1um , I have been to um several of the locations actually . Um , I have been to san sebastian , which I think was my favorite um , just because , like I could picture it , um , I went . I went to san sebastian right before I did my camino , um , and then , like on that same trip , I went to madrid and barcelona . So I think like I'm just also maybe associating it with like happy memories of that amazing trip .
Speaker 1Yeah , um , but I really felt like I could connect with San Sebastian and like then they like they go swimming and like there's like all these rock like whatever , and I could really picture that um and I liked where were on that and that's where they ended up going back to Right and they , they end up in San Sebastian where they open up their um store together . I think so , yes , Um , so maybe it's partly why I was liking that too and it was kind of neutral ground for them , so like no , they .
Speaker 2they ended up in St John to lose .
Speaker 1Okay , the not in . Sebastian had to flip to the um . So yeah
Exploring Heartbreak and Redemption
Speaker 1, I loved that . Um , I would say like food wise .
Speaker 2Um , I really liked and I don't remember where it was sorry , but , um , they did like a pairing dinner and it's kind of the first time you really get to see Theo like knows a lot about what they're talking about in terms of wine and like the food pairings and they're kind of like early on .
Speaker 2I think that might have been in Paris , honestly , or the very first place they went , but I really liked that scene . Like that was just cool to me and I think part of Theo's character is like they previously struggled with like executive function and feeling successful , and then to have this moment where they're like showing their greatest strength , which is this , like ability to understand wine and talk about it and describe it in interesting ways . I really liked that moment .
Speaker 1So yes , I loved anytime they described a pastry . Yes , I was just like I have to eat that immediately . Yes , I want to eat that . So bad um that I . There was a lot of pastry discussion in france and in spain . Yes , um less in italy , because there are less pastry people I think . But it was just awesome and also quick wreck , not out of a book . But did I tell you how I watched the documentary psalm ? You did tell me that . Okay , well , let me tell the listeners , tell them .
Speaker 1So after , after reading this book , I was like , oh my gosh wine and so , because there's like so much discussion about wine in this book and so , anyways , I ended up watching this documentary called psalm uh-huh and it's about , um , four guys who are studying to become a master sommelier , which less than 200 people in history have ever achieved . Uh-huh and um , anyways , I learned from this thing like these people are crazy and , honestly , the quality of the documentary is not like , like the visual quality isn't very good . It's like , yeah , old , but um , I learned all about this , like deductive identification test that you do for wine and all these different notes and things that you try and taste and see and smell and all this stuff . And so the day after I watched , I had some friends over and we had a bottle of wine and so we did it with the test and I was like , oh my gosh , this is so fun and I feel like I'm learning so much . So , anyways , recommend that documentary to people who may be interested . It's really good .
Speaker 2Okay , so much , um . So , anyways , recommend that documentary to people who may be interested . It's really good , okay , wow , I'm interested . I feel like all wine tastes the same to me , so I obviously know that's not true , but I would love to refine my palate some more , especially after reading this book . Yes , okay , I want to read this one part .
Speaker 2This is right before the point of view splits . I texted you this like broke me , um , but the whole time you're calling Kit Kit , okay . And then it's Theo says this is like right before they're about to kiss , right . Theo says something you need to know about Kit is his name isn't actually Kit . His parents started calling him Kit because he was quick and wily like a little fox and it was easier for his older brother to say it , so it stuck . But his real name is Aurelian the golden one .
Speaker 2It f**king suits , I don't know why . That just ruined my life , I know . And you're like yeah , he is . Because the whole time like that's exactly right , like he's just this golden boy . And then like there's theo's like I don't know . There's a part that I couldn't find again , but there's a part where theo talks about like sometimes you have to just like get through a breakup , you have to make the other person into something they're not like . You have to remember them worse than they were , because that's the only way you can get through it . And I just like this . To me was this moment where that version of kit fell away because , like theo was trying so hard to remember kit and like the worst parts of him and like this , like flaky or , you know , flirty , and like not serious , and then it's like no , like when they kiss , like he's the golden one and I do still love him , and like the resolve to remember him as worse than he was has kind of fallen away , and that was really fascinating to read .
Speaker 1Yeah , totally Like you know how they say that . Like anger is a secondary emotion and it's usually like you feel it because you're not like it's covering up something else , like sadness or , you know , jealousy or despair or envy or something like that . And it's like I think some of the most painful heartbreak can be when the other person didn't do anything wrong , it just didn't work out . Yeah , because then it's like you can't even like vilify them for anything . You just like you're constantly thinking like , oh , what if it had worked out ? Or like what if you know this one thing had changed ? Or like my reality had been different Because they what if you know one , this one thing had changed ? Or like my reality had been different . Um , because they're still like a perfect person that you hadn't held some animosity to . And so I feel for theo that they go on this trip and kit is like not the bad person that they had made them out to be . Yeah , made him out to be in his mind yeah , it's like you have to .
Speaker 2Then theo's forced to like reckon with kit . When they have blocked kit and not talked to him for so many years , then , like you have to deal with it . You know in real life . This is the other part I wanted to read . Um , it's talk about talking about I'm so sorry after um , kit's mom died and how it says okay , I was 13 , ollie was 16 and cora was 10 .
Speaker 2None of us knew what to do , not even dad , especially not dad . But Theo somehow did . They were close enough to our family to know what each of us needed and removed enough to do the things none of us could . All summer they skateboarded two miles each way from their house to mine . They asked us our favorite meals , wrote us lists of ingredients and assigned Ollie to grocery shopping . They knew I loved baking and Cora loved cakes , but that Mama's recipes were unusable for now . So they borrowed cookbooks from the library and shoplifted issues of good housekeeping from the drugstore .
Speaker 2And when I couldn't fall asleep for days at a time , they climbed into bed with me and read out loud from my favorite book , the Silmarillion . Mama read it to me when I was six . I told them In French , right ? Theo asked in that simple direct way of theirs Well , I'm reading it in English , so it's different . By then I had known for years that I loved Theo , but in my bed in the desert , that unthinkable summer , I knew that , no matter what happened between us when we were older , they would always be the person who did this . For me , that would always matter more than anything . And then , eventually , uh , kit got some lines from that book tattooed and that's like kind of at the climax of the book is theo realizing like , oh my god , that's why you got that tattooed .
Speaker 2Oh , it's so sweet what did you think about the fake out at the end that they weren't going to be together ? I was so mad .
Speaker 1You know why ? Because I kind of like I had a moment where I didn't trust you , yeah , where I was like , oh , you would read a book where things don't end happily . That's fair , you know , like one day , for instance , which we should discuss on this ?
Speaker 2podcast yeah fair enough . I was like , oh , like , oh , my god , emily just set me up to read a book where it ends in pain .
Speaker 1Yes , and then I was like I cannot believe this , I cannot believe I have read this book . That was like drugs yeah , and they're not going to be together . Yeah , and then they did . I was . I was angry for a hot second yeah , I almost . I almost did the thing where I skipped the end of the book , just like make sure . But it was a quick fake out , it was a quick head fake and then we were back to like happy times yeah and I will say I don't like a third act breakup .
Speaker 2But this felt different than that , because it felt like earned . You had to know that both Theo and Kit had become unselfish enough to be able to say I don't want to hold you back anymore , I don't want to keep you from your dreams , especially Theo , I think you had to see , and Kit honestly , because why they broke up ? Was Kit sort of trying to take control of Theo's life in a way ? And I feel like you had to see that they both had come to a place where they were like I love you so much , I'm going to let you go .
Speaker 1They weren't going to repeat yeah , they didn't want to make mistakes and the thing is about their breakup . It wasn't like a fight that happened at the end . They were just like which . That's the part that pissed me off . I was like okay , you guys , you're being so dumb right now Like , please , just like . This is so dumb , like you spend the whole book saying how much . Like I've been living in the shade of their tree but I haven't eaten their fruit . Like , oh my God , you guys have got to stop being so insufferable .
Speaker 2No literally . But then I think you know something I think about a lot is is like it's like , if you wanted to , you would is a dumb like catchphrase , but I think at the end it's like , honestly , because , like , people break up because of long distance , people break up because , like , they go to different colleges . People break up because , like , they get a job somewhere else . People break up because of all kinds of reasons . I'm not saying you're invalid , but if you really love someone , I think you would make it work as much like you would at least try .
Speaker 2And so I liked that at the end that it's like oh no , we live on different continents , but we're going to make this work because we've we like my whole thing is like they had to be unselfish , but then they also had to like love themselves enough to be like no , I love myself enough that I deserve to be happy and I deserve to be happy and I want to be with this person . And I am not happy in this like situation I'm in right now . Just because I'm like achieving things or finally making progress in my life , that doesn't mean that I'm happy and I'd be much happier with this other person . So I I thought it was a well-earned third act breakup , if you can even call it that um , which I normally really really don't like . But yeah , this was , I think , important to the plot and it was . It was a really nice
Friends, Weddings, and Book Recommendations
Speaker 2moment . At the end , theo , you know , gets off the plane very friends , and then , uh , kit opens the door to go to the airport and you know they're already standing .
Speaker 1I love an airport run through the airport scene like in Happy Place . Yeah , yeah , I'm sorry .
Speaker 2I literally have watched Friends so many times and I literally , and I don't even care Like Ross and Rachel , I get they're toxic , I don't care Every time he's saying get off the plane . And then she's right behind him and she says I got off the plane . Like every time , I will cry Did you get off the plane ? Like every time , I will cry did you get off the plane did ?
Speaker 1you get off the plane I got off the plane . Oh god , just talking about it , it just gets me we have so few things in this life that can give us hope and joy .
Speaker 2You know what I mean like let's just , let's get off the plane , you guys .
Speaker 1Just I think it's okay to just like things that are cringe , like I was saying , I was in a wedding this weekend and I was talking to a bride and she was like she was like you know , whatever is cringe and I was like here's the thing Weddings are cringe .
Speaker 2Yeah , the whole concept , everything about weddings is cringe .
Speaker 1Yeah , who cares ? Like we do it because we have so few things in life to celebrate . Yeah , like it's joyful people come together and like if that's cringe , then like , whatever , I don't care yeah then let be cringe , embrace the cringe and be happy and be free .
Speaker 2Truly , I loved it . I love this book . I will read anything casey mcquiston writes . You've got a fan for life , casey FFL .
Speaker 1Anything else , okay , well read it , I read it , and you then got spoiled , so read it .
Speaker 2There's still a lot we didn't talk about A lot .
Speaker 1we didn't talk about A lot of amazing side characters .
Speaker 2A lot .
Speaker 1And , like different side quests , there are laugh out loud moments Very funny . There are great moments of dialogue . We didn't talk about there moments very . There are great moments of dialogue .
Speaker 2we didn't talk about um there's surely some things that we missed . Um , and just like the travel , like the descriptions of travel , this is like a great , if you like can't travel to these places , this is a great way to still experience them , like I felt , like I can visualize parts of like italy and spain and france that I've never been to , because the descriptions are very lush , so so I would recommend that .
Speaker 1Exactamente .
Speaker 2Okay , have you read anything good recently ?
Speaker 1I am almost done with a couple of things . I've been traveling a lot .
Speaker 1So I did have some like travel reading time , like plane time , but not a lot of like regular reading time . Sure , sure . The first thing is we Solve Murders by Richard Osman , who is the author of the Thursday Murder Club series , here to report . It is just as good , great . The characters are just as lovable , the cadence is just as fabulous , pacing , the , the many characters , like a web of interconnected characters and storylines um just super heartwarming , but also a great mystery so I mean , it's a cozy fall read like .
Speaker 1If you're looking for a cozy fall read with , and it's actually um , it's part . A lot of the setting is in america , in south carolina , oh , but it's still british people so it's like perfect that's fun um , so that I highly recommend um . Do you have it on hold ? I'm sure no , oh you don't ? Okay , well , you should I should , and there's no pressure because like this I don't . I have not finished the book . I have read enough to say confidently that it's good . Okay , but there's not more books , so it's not like .
Speaker 2You have this huge , daunting task ahead of you .
Speaker 1And then I've also been reading the People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn , which this is not a hot take at all . It's like a very famous book , um , for people who are , who live in
Bookstore Excursions and Romantic Rivals
Speaker 1la . I went to iliad bookstore and iliad bookshop in burbank , which is , um , I just like when they're on a wild hair the other day and it's this used bookstore that is like literally floor , floor to floor to ceiling shelves for like row after row after row after row , so many books If you go there and everything there is like under $15 . It's like very cheap . But here's the thing If you go there which I highly recommend that you do you need to go in with a list of books you might want to find , because it is an extremely dense used bookstore that you're there's like it's kind of like going to that place in Chattanooga , mckay's , where it's like things aren't going to be . There's nothing on the end caps that are like new and notable .
Speaker 1There's so much stuff you need to know what you're looking for , but everything is super cheap . Anyways , I got a copy of this there and I've also been listening to the audiobook on hoopla nice .
Speaker 1Um , it's very long , so the audiobook helps , but basically it goes through all of american history from like columbus and the native americans to , um , like the bush administration , that's when it was written , but it kind of talks about this other side of history that is not like taught in schools and like , instead of looking at history through the perspective of like the presidents or the major wars , it's talking about the movements of the people during that time and then contrasting it with the presidents and the wars and the major laws and decisions that were passed .
Speaker 1And , yeah , I would say there's a lot of stuff I didn't know , a lot of stuff that we weren't really taught , and a huge like TLDR for the book is every time there has been like a major uprising , like a major movement of the people in America about something that was like unjust or like not right . America got into a war , um , to like acquire other land and to build up the spirit of patriotism and basically like divert the consciousness of the american people from the thing that they cared about to annihilating smaller countries .
Speaker 1so there's that actually , and then also just like finding like , basically , like the elite , like rich people of our country have , like always found ways to pit , like the working class against one another based on race or other made-up things anyways , um , basically , there's nothing new under the sun and while that all sounds very depressing , it was also extremely interesting and , um , it's kind of told in a narrative format where you get to hear lots of stories of people and movements from these times throughout history . I think it should be required reading . It's like really good , okay , so I pray , I highly recommend okay awesome .
Speaker 2Okay , what about you ? On a lighter note , my recent reading uh is a sequel to a book I talked about a while ago , earlier this year or maybe end of last year . Um , but it's , you're the problem , it's you by emma albin , which is the sequel to uh . Don't want you like a best friend . Um , it's historical romance . It follows gosh . I can't even remember their first names because I it's the lesbians right yes , but this is two men .
Speaker 2So , uh , it's a different story . It's kind of like um , you know , like how a bridgerton book , like you don't have to read the books before it , like you could read this as a standalone , but I don't recommend because it does continue the the narrative and , um , the characters from the first one are they're in it okay , bobby mason and james demirovan in it . Anyways , I listen to audiobooks . I have their voices in my head . It's like um , it's like a great rivals to lovers . I don't love enemies to lovers , but this is rivals to lovers , okay .
Speaker 2So basically , um demirovan he just became the Viscount Demeroven and took over um in the previous book like , uh , one of the girls is kind of forced out of like they're , they're about to become impoverished because her dad dies . He has no son and you know he . She's a daughter , so she can't take over . So this is actually her cousin . He comes of age and can become the viscount and it's like a rival thing . Because bobby mason is , he's really good friends with the two girls and he's like I saw what your family did to gwen and you almost put her out on the streets and so like he starts off hating him , but it wasn't his fault . He was not of age , and now he's going to make things right . So and then Bobby's like I am the second son . I have an inferiority complex . I just want to do something important and not just go to these freaking parties all day and marry a lady I'm not even interested in , and so they kind of hate each other .
Speaker 1That's crazy , because that sounds pretty good .
Speaker 2I know .
Speaker 1Besides like being forced to marry someone you're not interested in .
Speaker 2but other than that , yeah , yeah , yeah , sure , and I loved it because they actually went to school together but Bobby never knew James , but James had like a huge , undying crush on him back in the day and now they kind of hate each other , but like the tension's still there . Oh , that sounds extremely my shit .
Speaker 2still there , um , and they're trying that sounds extremely my shit yes , and then they're trying to like there's like a person , an outside antagonist , and they have to kind of are forced to kind of work together to overcome this , this external issue , and um , it was so good . My one criticism of the first book was that the friendship between the two girls was really really cute but like the chemistry wasn't there . The chemistry is there in this book . It's like I maybe it's just part of them being like rivals but like they're little , like they like hate each other but then they want to kiss each other . It's like you can feel the tension between them . Sure , love that the . It was it's . Again , if you read the first one , it's nice because you get kind of a continuation of some of those side characters . But these two characters are really nice . It was fun . I listened to the again . I listened to the audiobook while puzzling .
Speaker 2And it was like the best way it was so good and they had two different little guys doing the voices , british guys . You felt like I feel like I know these people now because when they do the you know like they had such good voice actors where they were like emoting and you could feel like , yes , the anger or like the frustration or the sadness or the happiness , like you could feel all that . So I really recommend the audiobook um , very highly recommend this . It was so good , it was such a big improvement from the first one , which I already really liked , but this is like okay , you're getting even better . I'm a big fan , so great wreck emily thank you , it was really good .
Speaker 2I'll have to put that on the list I have a long , I know , unfortunately , on there .
Speaker 1I also like happened to buy a bunch of other books at elliott bookshop , sure , sure , well , I was there , so now I have these like books .
Speaker 1So yeah , they tend to stack up and then , once you read them more , come you know I will also say that , like every year , I'm like , oh , I'm not trying to like read a certain number of books , but I've fallen into a trap a little bit , because I know that if I just pick up my pace a tiny bit , I can get out to 100 books . Yeah , and um , I'm falling behind and I , I know it's okay . I'm in this place now and I'm like , I'm like , oh my god , but I really want to reach 100 .
Speaker 2Yeah , I totally get that the numbers are arbitrary , but they do motivate , yeah anyways , all right , all right .
Speaker 1See you guys next time . We'll catch you on the flippity flip bye .