The Readirect Podcast
Shifting the conversation back to books. Hosted by Abigail Freshley and Emily Rojas.
The Readirect Podcast
Wicked! The Book, the Musical, and the Movie—Oh My!
In preparation for the upcoming movie adaptation of beloved musical, Wicked, we're reading the source material by Gregory Maguire!
Let's just be honest, we're not the biggest fans of this book, so if it's one of your beloveds please know we're approaching this with a critical eye. Fair warning! We love the musical, and we're apprehensively excited for the movie adaptation.
For more on the Wizard of Oz curse, read this article from Time.
As always, let us know your thoughts on our TikTok or Instagram at @readirectpodcast.
Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. My name is Abigail Freshen and I'm Emily.
Speaker 2:Romas. The Redirect Podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes relate to our real lived experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode, we are discussing Wicked the book in anticipation for, uh, wicked the movie in much anticipation.
Speaker 2:But before we get to that, we really would love to very humbly ask if you would support us in a few simple ways. The first thing you can do is go to apple podcast or wherever you listen and leave us a five-star review and just let us know how much you love the show.
Speaker 1:You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Redirect Podcast and if you really really love the show, you can share it with a friend. Look, we need this more than ever. Share joy with a friend, we need this more than ever. Yeah, share joy with a friend, share hope and laughter and love with a friend. Live, laugh, love and books and books helps us grow our community of book loving nerds. Um, thank you. Uh, how's it going Emily?
Speaker 2:Good Thanks to everyone who has come back and listened to this episode after our last episode, which was recorded in a, I would say, more hopeful. Different time, A different time.
Speaker 1:And thank you guys for coming back. I can't believe that was a week ago, disturbingly.
Speaker 2:Two weeks ago really, by the time this got done disturbingly two weeks ago, really, by the time, yeah.
Speaker 1:So hey, we're here to talk about something that has provided a lot of joy for my life. This is wicked, as, like an institution, yeah, has been important to us for a long way back yeah, go way back. So it our history with wicked begins at the fox theater in Atlanta, georgia. Where was it your birthday, or was it for Emma's birthday?
Speaker 2:It was for Emma's birthday. Friend of the pod.
Speaker 1:Emma, we got tickets to see. I don't think we did. I think my parents bought me a ticket to see Wicked at the Fox Theater. Yes, we got really super dressed up, yes, and went to cheesecake factory and we did like a full photo shoot we'll post a photo of this. Yes, because yes I don't know if you've seen, you've heard that ticker audio. Right, it's like why did me and my friends at 13 get so dressed up to go to the cheesecake factory?
Speaker 2:it's like we were like oh, it's a random passage this is the height of culture, the height of fanciness. No, literally uh, yeah, yeah, not only that, um, but like, yeah, just like to me, I still feel this way. Going to a show and I feel like people's attire has definitely relaxed, but definitely going to a show, I feel like you're supposed to look nice, like you are supposed to dress up well, we were also just like, so starved for any reason to look like.
Speaker 1:We love dressing up back then. Yeah, yeah and and yeah, wrong with that, but yeah, we got super dressed up for emma's birthday.
Speaker 2:We, we surprise, picked her up from school. Um, she didn't know we were coming and we I guess you guess you didn't live in Atlanta anymore by this point either, so that was probably an even bigger surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we went to her house and I remember us getting ready there Like we had our outfits, our hair curled and makeup. And then we went to the Cheesecake Factory and then we went to go see this and I feel like I actually was. I liked the musical Wicked prior to seeing it, but that's when it probably like popped off for me for sure.
Speaker 1:I had like heard some of the songs, but I didn't really know what the plot was.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't know the plot, probably.
Speaker 1:I remember sitting. We had pretty good seats too. I remember like sitting out during the intermission right after she finishes, defying gravity, yes. And I remember just honestly feeling like I, my life changed, like I was. I was like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe.
Speaker 2:I just saw that I, I remember too like, um, we can talk about more about this when we get into like the movie and stuff, but the first half is very more stacked than the second half. The pacing is off for sure, and so I actually thought it was done Like Defying Gravity and I was like, wow, that was so good. And they're like oh no, there's another part to this. Like you're going to come back after a few minutes and we'll watch part two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same part to this, like you're gonna come back after a few minutes and we'll watch part two. Yeah, same. I think I thought it was over too, because every song.
Speaker 2:What a way to end yeah, yeah, any song you know probably if you're just a casual person is definitely from part one of the musical. It's most likely not from the second part.
Speaker 1:I just remember it was truly life-changing I was just like this is a cultural reset for me. Yeah and um, I feel like it's like not to like be super hyperbolic and stuff. I feel like this was like set me on my trajectory of like womanhood, like fully like I. It was so important to me. Yeah, because it was like. I mean, I think everyone, when they're 13 or 14 I think I was 14 and you guys were, emma was turning 14 or something- I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was her 14th birthday.
Speaker 1:Um, I like everyone at that age pretty much feels like they're different or weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But just like seeing this, you know, I felt that for sure, like I felt really insecure in myself. I felt like I was really tall and like weird and loud and off-putting, and some of that was true, but, um, wow, do you hear the sirens that are going off in the background?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's okay just there's so many it's part of your life it is part of my life, you know um, anyways, I just like seeing elphaba be this literally you know different character and having this like extremely empowering moment. I was like, oh my God, and also I really related to her that she was like I'm not that girl. You know, like just being like, oh, I'm not like loved. But then she was.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know all that Totally yeah.
Speaker 2:So for me I can also post this picture. But I came to Wicked through performing in my school's talent show in the sixth grade oh my God, I forgot about that. My friend Caroline asked me. She was like like, okay, every school has a girl who's like the best singer you've ever heard in your life, you know at a young age. That was caroline. She was just like the greatest singer anyone had ever heard. And so she asked me to be her glenda to her alphaba. And we did one short day and I had never heard of wicked before that, um. And so she asked me we practiced, we did it. I was Glenda, I had a white, sparkly dress. It was very fun. It was an iconic moment for me, to be honest.
Speaker 2:And then I kind of didn't really think about it too much. But then the next year she asked me if I would want to do For Good also from Wicked, like reprise it. And then she ended up doing something else with someone else. But Wicked like reprise it. And then she ended up doing something else with someone else. But when I started getting into I was like, let me learn for good, in case she wants to do that for the talent show and then that's when I kind of went on my trajectory of learning more about Wicked and so I got super into Wicked.
Speaker 2:Then my grandmother, who was always really good at giving presents for birthdays and Christmasmas that were like things we were actually interested in she knew I was into wicked and so she got me um I tried to google it. I believe it must have been like the fifth anniversary, um, of the original broadway cast, uh, recording based on the timeline, because it was not too long after, you know, it wasn't so far after the original premiere of wicked and it had like multiple discs, it had the original cast, it had some like bonus songs, right because it's not like we could just go on spotify no, and like stream the richard broadway cast.
Speaker 1:Like you knew someone about the cd or you, like you know, sprung for the itunes money. Yeah, and I was like you know trying to spend my itunes gift cards on other stuff exactly, so that was a great gift.
Speaker 2:The thing is, though, to transition to what we were talking about, she did also buy me the fourth book in the series and, to be clear, I was 12. Oh, grammy, this is like, yeah, it's like. Look, parents these days, I feel like, are way more controlling over what their kids are reading. They're trying to ban everything. Obviously, not all parents, but, like my parents, straight up, never evaluated what I was reading, and apparently neither did my grandparents before they bought me books, but I just want to be very clear these books are definitely not for children or even young adults, like they're definitely for adults. They're adult very adult.
Speaker 1:They're dark. I mean this book we'll get into it yeah, not yet. I feel like if we ever have merch one day, we need a shirt that, or like a mug that says we'll get into it. We don't know. Yeah, but it's like you know it's dark. Yeah, it's dark. I saw somebody on reddit.
Speaker 1:In my research for this episode of course I went to reddit and someone said me too wicked, the book is an answer to the oz books. Wicked, the musical is the answer to the wizard of oz movie. Yeah, um, that makes sense for sure. I mean. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. Have you ever read?
Speaker 2:the wizard of oz books no, I've not have you. Yeah, I haven't either, so I can't really speak to that cool, but definitely like. The musical is a different take, obviously, but it's way less dark yeah, way more happy ending, so as musical should be yeah, so that is like how we've come.
Speaker 1:We've come to this place for magic.
Speaker 2:We came to this through being honestly women also we are both very, very much musical theater people. Had we not had those formative experiences, we we would have come to Wicked another way I would have come in another way it would have found me, it would have I do love.
Speaker 1:Okay, this is tangent, but have you gotten on Ragtime Musical TikTok.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you should.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have. What am I talking about I?
Speaker 1:totally have. Okay, I have. What am I talking about? I totally have. Okay, I have long time been a fan of Ragtime the Musical.
Speaker 1:Yes, I just want to say that I'm a Ragtime hipster. Yes, I, for over 10 years, have been really into Ragtime the Musical. Yes, also, specifically because in the original Broadway cast the guy who sings Make them Hear you is the same guy who is um, plays uh jethro in, uh, the prince of egypt, and I would know that cheeky mother anywhere anyways. So, um, I just want to say that it is a really emotional place over at ragtime musical and if you are so inclined, you might want to put that into your TikTok search bar and start getting that fed to you on your For you page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's apt, that's why it's been on my For you page. But yeah, we're both big musical theater people, so we would have found this one way or another. And we're very excited just to be clear, extraordinarily excited for the musical adaptation.
Speaker 1:I am excited about the movie, but I'm a little nervy, Us sure.
Speaker 2:Here's some things.
Speaker 1:I'm nervous about. Actually, this is like a hot take. Ariana Grande is what I'm a little nervous about. Yeah, I agree, she has less grit and edge than I think. I mean, you're always going to compare it to the original Broadway cast. So you know, I'm going to be comparing it to the Kristen Chenoweth Glinda.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is like talk about someone who was born to play that role. You know, literally born to do it.
Speaker 1:I'm not feeling worried about Cynthia Erivo. No, I think that'll be okay. I am definitely definitely not that worried about the man playing Fiyero.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I say I'm excited for this movie, I mean like I need to see Jonathan. Why did I want to say Jonathan Majors? That's not him, jonathan Bailey, I need to see him specificallyors. That's not not him, jonathan Bailey, I need to see him specifically as Fiyero so you are the bane of my existence. You are the bane of my existence and the object of all my desires. Exactly like everything else could be bad and I'll be all right, you know I don't think everything else will be bad.
Speaker 2:I think, um, I'm very interested in the part one and part two. Honestly I was against it, but I've heard a lot of people say that like I mean it's almost three hours part one the movie and so I've heard a lot of people say that like there was nothing they felt could be cut. And what I'm most concerned and interested to see is how they balance part two because that is like notably a less like less happens in part two of the musical. You know there's less iconic songs, so I'm interested how they'll fill that out. I think absolutely part one can be a part one. I'm Like less happens in part two of the musical. You know there's less iconic songs, so I'm interested how they'll fill that out. I think absolutely part one can be a part one.
Speaker 1:I'm more concerned about the second part. Well, I'm thinking probably like, if you remember, from the musical, there's like a quick montage at the beginning that does some like history telling about Elphaba's parents and like it's kind of like it's really fast.
Speaker 2:The book, went into it a lot and it's like loosely derived from the book, right um it.
Speaker 1:But like they probably will spend more time on that because I would say of the musical that part's a little confusing yeah, I think there are some things that are rushed in the musical.
Speaker 2:For sure that can be developed more so I'm not anti two parts, I'm just interested how they'll balance them um, but yeah, but also, have you how?
Speaker 1:how familiar are you with the theory, the conspiracy theory, that the wizard of oz is cursed?
Speaker 2:super familiar okay I would like to explain to the list.
Speaker 1:I believe it actually yeah, so basically, uh, starting with the wizard of oz, the movie starring Judy Garland, a lot of like stuff happened on that set. First of all, judy Garland went on to have like a pretty tragic and depressing life. She's like the OG child star who had like a tragic experience being a star um, there I there's a.
Speaker 1:We'll link it in the show notes like a a time article about like, what's true and what's not true about the movie being cursed, the, the makeup that they used for the actors made them all sick. Um, like the green paint and like the for, like the tin man and all that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I was gonna say it wasn't the tin man, like metal poisoned yeah um somebody stepped on toto, um, and like there was like weird vibes, people, all the actors from that movie kind of went on to like have kind of dark things happen to them in the future yeah, and as a result, not like yeah not, but as a result of yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Also, like it was the first movie of its kind. Really, they spent what would be the equivalent now of $55 million on this movie, which back then was totally unheard of. They were doing a bunch of special effects. For the first time, the broom that the Wick of Witch of the West used caught on fire, like there was a bunch of stuff that just like went wrong and people are bringing this back up again because, um, handling this delicately, because I certainly don't want to comment too much on women's bodies, but it's very apparent that cynthia rivo and ariana grande have become extremely thin over the course of the press tour of this movie. Yeah, and people are wondering if it had to do with something that went on on set, if it's like an unhealthy dynamic between the two of them, like what's going on. But there's been like reportedly Ariana Grande had some like fainting spells from like hunger. I don't know what have you heard about this?
Speaker 2:honestly, I haven't heard much other than just speculation, which obviously, like you said, no need to comment on people's bodies, but like it's one thing to be like making fun of someone or presuming for sure they have eating disorders or whatever. Um, obviously we don't want to do that, but it is like if you see, there is a level where you see someone and it's like, okay, this is, you don't look healthy and and so what is going on?
Speaker 1:it's less about those individuals and more about, like the context of what they share, which is this movie.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, exactly, and um, so I don't know it. Yeah, all I've heard is really speculation and obviously people commenting on it, but either way, whether the movie's cursed or not, it's very concerning and I hope that none of that's true and there's other things going on or whatever that can explain that, but you know, or that she gets the help she needs, but it is concerning, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Sofia Erivo too. Yeah, yeah, but it is concerning, for sure, yeah, and cynthia riva too, like I, yeah, yeah, there's also been some other controversy surrounding the the press of the movie, because there was like a, a mini scandal where, like a tiktok creator edited the movie poster to look more like the um broadway original broadway poster but in so doing, and the original broadway poster. It's a cartoon and you can't see.
Speaker 1:The cartoon dies, but then, she edited it to make it look like cynthia, like basically obscure cynthia rio's face, and then I didn't she make a comment about it.
Speaker 2:Like she made it, she like because it started going viral instagram, I think and was like you're erasing me and, uh, you know, dehumanizing me or something, uh, yeah not great.
Speaker 1:So there was that. I mean, I think, like this movie is either going to be great or it's going to be a flop, like yeah, like it's one of those things. Um, I know that they did the lay miss thing where they uh like saying live, missing live, which which I appreciate, like so yeah, I do too, actually, I know that's also controversial. Yeah, but I like it, so I do too.
Speaker 2:I will be sat. I will be there, yeah, if not opening night shortly after, but you know it's interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:So we read the book. Yeah, so we read the book. Yeah, where this all started. So this book, okay, I got my copy of this book was from Thrift Books Uh-huh, mine as well and it was like one of the like original print copies. Oh, it was in really great condition, but like there's a price tag on the inside, it was like sold for like $11. It was like original price. Wait, hold yours up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with the like circle thingy, the cutout, it was 16, so it must not be a first edition um, so, uh, that was cool and I was wow, this really was a different time.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, reading it from that paperback reminded me like the context of which this, like the what the world was like when this book came out.
Speaker 2:Yes, which?
Speaker 1:is when you were born 1995. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So a long long time ago, a long long time ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so different world. Yeah, and um so different world which I have to say I think is really important, because one of my big one, of the first things that came up for me when reading this book was like male gaze. This is a book, yes, centering around a female character who is complicated, and the male gaze of this book is unavoidable, it is for sure. Every twist and turn I'm just like and like. I don't think that the character was bad, but she was clearly written by a man.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think it's also complicated and something I'll just spoiler alert I did not enjoy the experience of reading this book. I understand that a lot of people like it, a lot of people hate it and, to be clear, like, I read the original book in the series before I ever saw the musical, so I feel like I had an understanding of what I was coming into and I had a weird experience. I read the fourth book in this series first, but I think, um it, I didn't like what you're saying, that it's very clearly written by a man, but it's also like, doubly layered upon, that is, that you never really get elphaba's perspective, really, um, you almost don't get anyone's perspective. But especially like, like to me, so many key moments in elphaba's journey are described through the perspective of other people.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it felt like it was just constantly, I don't know. It was like I didn't like that and I didn't like whatever. That we'll just stay with that one. I have other traits, but that's one of the things I didn't like was, like you're constantly viewing her through other people but you're supposed to also understand this journey of her as this complicated figure, but I didn't feel like I really could because it was like what is really going on in her mind, because you're not feeling her emotions right?
Speaker 2:does she really care about her sister? Does she really love fiero? Does she really like glinda? Does she really like um? You know all these experiences she has throughout her life. You almost don't even understand anything about them.
Speaker 1:I would say the epitome of the male gaze. It's like she is reduced to the way that other people, specifically like Fiyero, her dad the wizard, like, the way that they perceive her Bach even.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a big portion from box perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and it's like you're always, like it feels like you're always about to break through and like try and understand her motivations and it's always remains a mystery and like that felt frustrating because the point it felt to me of this book was to show her perspective. The point it felt to me of this book was to show her perspective. Yes, it's like that's oh, maybe like she's an anti-hero or like she's, yeah, actually a hero, like, um, yeah, so yeah, that's frustrating.
Speaker 2:Um, I wouldn't say it's a bad book I would say, I didn't enjoy reading it that much yes, I felt actually okay, this is all maybe a hot take. My experience of reading this book was very similar to my experience reading the bible, in that okay okay, it's a lot of world building, but without any explanation, like you're just thrown into a world that's like intensely, like there's words just thrown around, which is fine and it's about a character, but again, like you don't get that character's perspective, like as in the Bible, it's about God, but you don't get Jesus's or God's perspective.
Speaker 2:Jesus is our God's perspective and I felt like my biggest issue with this book. It felt like everything was written about without any emotion and the really like climactic portions of this book it would immediately cut away to like 10 years later.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, oh my god. So like we're just supposed to understand that, for example, fiero dies and we're instantly cut, cut to 10 years later she's been like a nun and has taken a vow of silence and then was a nun for many years and like it's an exile, I don't know whatever, like. So that's that happens constantly throughout this book, where it's like we're building up this affair with her and fiero. She's like going through this resistance in the city trying to take down the wizard. They like are they in love, are they not? You don't really know.
Speaker 2:He's brutally murdered and then it's like that's it. There's no. And then you're just supposed to understand in retrospect that, oh, that that was like a key moment in her life and like super pivotal and, um, pivotal, pivotal, and like that's fine. Again, it's not poorly written, it's just for me, I'm like, when I read a book I want to like to me, I want way more of the emotional relationship stuff and way less world building. And this is, if you like a well-built world and like a political critique and, uh, a very interesting characterization of a fairy tale, like I think you would like this for me. That's not really what I'm looking for in the books I read, but that was my biggest problem for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to get to like the political themes and for sure that kind of stuff in a second. I would say, like just continue wrapping up the male gaze conversation. I feel like this also showed up with glinda, yes, and the contrast that was drawn between glinda and alphaba. So big difference from the book, I mean from the musical, is that glinda and alphaba aren't even really like homies like that, like they kind of are, but like the musical is a lot more about their relationship and over time and like this was not about that so much. And glinda is like somebody who like she kind of quickly comes around to elphaba but then ends up kind of being this like beautiful but kind of vapid and ignorant political actor, like she has all the power to influence but she doesn't really use it for good, she kind of uses it to maintain the status quo and she never really like comes to fruition as like a true accomplice for alphaba.
Speaker 1:On the other hand she kind of remains, uh like she. Yeah, she remains uh kind of like this stagnant, like non-entity, which also just kind of feels male gazey, because it's like you can be like beautiful and popular and like well loved and liked and stupid and ineffective, right, or you can be like really intelligent, like complicated, interesting, but like ugly and unlovable yeah, which is also like vanessa rose is a different version of that same thing.
Speaker 2:Like no arms can't walk, but um does eventually rise to power and becomes sort of like a religious fanatic versus like a political activist. You know, but yeah, the same same side of a coin or a different side of the same coin as and glinda can never really come into her power, because she's just too beautiful pretty, yeah, yeah and that like, so that was frustrating.
Speaker 1:Um, however, I did think that the world of the book was really I mean, I feel like at its core this is a book about like racism, yeah, and xenophobia, and like political systems and like division as control yes, it's like 100% like dividing the working class of Oz essentially into factions, so they feel like they're enemies against each other instead of taking over the elite and they're taught to fear each other and whatever. So, yeah, that was really interesting and I liked that. Like lens on it, yeah, and like the different ways that people choose to plug into it, too, was interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will definitely say to me the most interesting parts of this book were, like the political commentary, the world building in that sense of like the animals, capital, a animals versus lowercase animals and um kind of like, especially the. To me, the most interesting part of the book was when they were at shiz like building up as alpha bus slowly, like starts to try to understand um kind of the context in which we all exist. But that's like you know, as she's kind of learning and and coming into her ideology, I think that was the most interesting part to me. Um, but yeah, I don't know, that wasn't.
Speaker 2:I was not vibing with this book, other than that, but I do understand why people like it. To me it's also the same kind of vibe as the Hunger Games book that I didn't like Because it's also like I just need somebody to root for and while, of course, elphaba is kind of the protagonist and she's like someone you can think is mostly, you know, on the right path, for a good portion of the book, it's like, like we said, it's like so written through the male gaze and like so not in her mind, that it felt hard to like, there was no one to like grasp on to um and the characters you did get more of. I feel like we're so fleeting, like you get so much bach and then he's kind of and it never comes to fruition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's no payoff. Yeah, and in the musical she does a really like they do a really good job of like oh, fiero is a scarecrow and like bach is the tin man or whatever. That was not clear here, like it's I I. My understanding is that none of that is except for that, the lion, cub, yeah, the lion cub is a similar kind of story.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the Tin man and the Scarecrow are not related.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Tin man was like. They do set up the Tin man a little bit because it's like the person there's like a guy who comes Right the axe thing, yeah, yeah. And then you know, in this world, like they use Scarecrows as some sort of like idol. I don't know it was weird, like that was just, it was. All these things are like half baked in, like you're right. It's like reading the Bible. You're like, hmm, I'm gonna have to read like multiple different, like annexes and like commentaries. Yes, to understand what's going on.
Speaker 2:Which is incredible, like the ability to build out a world like this that is very different from the Wizard of Oz but has a lot of the same like terminology and like it's familiar enough. That's amazing. It's just like that's also not what I want to read.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, one of the big things I'm remembering now that just really annoyed me. I'm feeling annoyed about it right now. About it right now is that they're like, yeah, during this big time jump, um, when Elphaba was a nun, she might have had a son, but she doesn't remember because it's too hard for her brain, which that is again. I was just like, yeah, like she could have blocked memories out. But y'all like, and she's like cruel to this kid, like she wouldn't and like it turns out like she is, he's fiero's son right and she carried him and delivered
Speaker 2:him, but forgot yeah, I'm just kind of like she was like in a coma. Yeah, again, it's like so, yeah, it's. I can't even describe it better than reading the bible, because it's like it's reading this is almost like you are implied to already understand that that is her son and you should have known that from the first moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you should have so then you should have just known that the context clues, you're like, oh, she doesn't remember, that's how.
Speaker 2:And I did know because only because I've read the fourth book already and she has, that's about, I believe, elphaba and Fiyero's granddaughter, if I remember correctly, or grandson or whatever grandchild. So I knew obviously she had some descendants before she dies and so I knew that already. But it's like, yeah, it's like you're supposed to have already known that all this has happened and this is just giving you the context and the backstory, which I guess is the case, because you're supposed to already have the wizard of oz in your mind and this is kind of like a backwards explanation.
Speaker 1:But it's just so different that you're like, okay, yeah, massive time jump with little explanation yeah, I'll say something positive, which is that I liked the way that he, that he breadcrumbed some stuff like the ruby slippers, yeah, um, over time, like that was cool, and then also, um, oh, I think there was another breadcrumb about the hot air balloon that the wizards like came to this world with. Sure, yeah, and you've, I think you're like meant to, oh, yeah, you're meant to imply that Elphaba isn't really her dad's daughter. He's, she's the daughter of the wizard, yes, which is just like in the musical, but like, yes, there are some good bread crumbs of that. Um, yeah, so, yeah, that was nice.
Speaker 2:I like, I enjoy little nods like that yeah, this book made me feel like am I just dumb? Am I, am I just too stupid to enjoy?
Speaker 1:No, Maybe I am. We aren't dumb. I think some people are dumb yeah.
Speaker 2:You're not dumb. I think it's just about what you enjoy, and for me this wasn't what I would enjoy, but it was very interesting. I don't know. I think it's fun. It was an interesting experience reading it and knowing the musical. I don't know, I don't know. Would you recommend that if someone has never seen the musical, they're going into this movie blind, that they chase it with the book or read it before or ever?
Speaker 1:read the book. I'm actually just good on just listen to this and skip it Like it's not a bad book, but just to be honest, I didn't enjoy reading it. If what we've described sounds like something, you would enjoy reading like you know yourself. But yeah, it wasn't bad, I just didn't enjoy it. And also it is a book written by a man about a woman in 1995 yeah, say no more like I don't know my, I don't have enough.
Speaker 1:My time on this earth is finite. My time to read and enjoy books is finite, and I don't like with a few exceptions, I would probably say I'm not that interested in reading books about strong female main characters written by men.
Speaker 2:That is very true With maybe like a few exceptions, but like yeah, as a general guiding principle I'm pretty good actually, thank you, um. So I will say a big change was just to go back to the differences. Uh, fier, he is like um, first of all non-white, yeah, and he's like emo also has, like he's like a goth kind of and he has a wife he has a full life from age seven, which is another, you know I get it, it's a different culture, different culture, uh, but not for me.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so he has a wife. He he's never. I mean, am I again? Am I dumb? Was he ever with glinda, or no?
Speaker 1:no, no, there was no love triangle at all okay, no love triangle.
Speaker 2:So yeah, he's just and oh, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:It's like they kind of in the musical melded the whole bach and fiero thing, like bach was interested in glinda, which is true in the musical but he never gets with nessa, and then fiero never likes glinda and she never likes him and he only kind of like halfway gets with elphaba and then he dies all of a sudden yeah, yeah, yeah, and there's no like yeah, it's, it's why I thought till the end he was not really gonna be dead.
Speaker 2:I thought he was gonna be I thought so too, because it's like kind of keep saying like, well, we think his body was his body's never found. Yeah, no, so I even googled them, like in later books. Does fiora come back?
Speaker 2:no, no, he's straight up just dead um okay, that was again another thing, like it's never really like like paying off, which is fine, I guess, um, but yeah, he's like super quiet and I also felt like again, you're just not giving me the details I want, because later I felt like it was sort of implied that Fiyero and Elphaba had some kind of special relationship when they were in school, but in the school chapters I feel like they were just all buddies and no, there was no other like connection between them or like they didn't have any scenes together.
Speaker 1:And again, if we had a look into Elphaba's thoughts and feelings, maybe we would know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, they come together, they everyone thinks Elphaba is kind of like missing after she runs off and goes underground. Then Fy'ra runs into her, they end up having this affair and he like is refusing to go back to his wife and child, and then she says I love you. And he's like I don't know, baby, I love you, I'm not sure. And then she's about to do like a terror attack and then he's killed.
Speaker 1:Then you jump 10 years. Yeah, also the circumstances of his dying was very confusing to me.
Speaker 2:I couldn't tell like is this like uh, oh, hello bodhi yeah, sorry you can hear him whining in the back. No, I don't hear him. Why?
Speaker 1:he looks really okay, good, um yeah, I just it was all confusing and I just felt like kind of cheated, like I feel like there's a bunch of storylines I could have come all the way to completion and then just like drop yeah I just want like more.
Speaker 2:I want more of a narrative. I am way more interested in plot than character development and world building always, and that's me. I want a fast-moving plot. This is not that. If you are way more interested in some kinds of character development and world building, this definitely is a good book for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good, all right, well, I'm looking forward to, after we see the movie, finishing our conversation about this on our thoughts. Yes, I'm very interested.
Speaker 2:I'm interested if they'll also incorporate any of the book stuff into the movie. Obviously not, uh, some of the more disturbing elements, for sure, but um, you know maybe more of the backstory yeah, like more of the political stuff. Um yeah, more stuff about like the animals, the magic, the you know, religious elements. There's a lot of like weird religious a lot of religious elements so I would be interested if any of that makes it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. All right, before we go, is there anything you've read recently you want to share?
Speaker 2:Okay, so many things. I feel like I have to talk about three good things, because last episode I talked about two bad things. Okay, first of all, I finally read Bride. Oh ride.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, okay, okay it was so good you were so good right it was so good I mean it's crazy. It's your first. This was your very first tippy, tip, tip toe into the omegaverse, right yes, I have never experienced that before.
Speaker 2:Had to do some googling. But it's crazy that part was wild, uh. But I thought like this this is what I want in a male main character. Is this wolf guy? He's like strong but like tender. You know he's good with kids but he's like a good leader. You know he's like leading the pack, making executive decisions, taking charge, but he's like thoughtful.
Speaker 1:You know this is what I want uh, I don't care about anything else.
Speaker 2:Like look, just like you said, it's just freaking the most simple world building ever, to contrast with the book we just read.
Speaker 1:It's just like, so easy to understand, like, immediately hey, there's vampires, there's humans, there's werewolves.
Speaker 2:They all hate each other, period and we're in.
Speaker 1:We're in a regular, our regular world. There's a place where werewolves live, a place where vampires live, place where humans live, you know like that makes sense, but I don't care I don't care, I still love it.
Speaker 2:Uh yeah, I had a really good time. I couldn't stop reading it. It was so good also I saw that there's a sequel coming in soon, so there is that's so great. I guess it's gonna be about. I forget their names now, but like her friend who was like our human, part werewolf, but yeah sure she had the friend who they found out at the end was like actually part werewolf oh, that's right, that's right and then there's one of the other werewolves.
Speaker 2:I think they're gonna have hell, yeah, a moment. Um, okay, so that was great. Thank you, I finally came through on the beat you read it, it was so good, I'm so glad you liked it too.
Speaker 1:I feel like the whole time I was reading it I was like this is crazy.
Speaker 2:I love it though, yeah, but I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:Okay, also, listen for the Lie. Have you ever read this? No, by Amy Tintera. Okay, this is like a five star for me. It was so good. Whoa, okay is um. Okay, you know what it's like rabbit hole, but better the book you also recommended to me, I think, um. So basically, this girl, lucy. She is from a small town in texas. Everyone thinks one night, um, she was at a wedding, her and her best friend, savannah, or savvy. They leave the wedding together, um, and that is the last time that savannah is seen alive. Lucy is found the next day with blood, savannah's blood on her, her skin underneath her nails and no memory of what happened the night before real raggy everyone obviously thinks she did it, but there's no other evidence.
Speaker 2:There's no like witnesses, there's no murder weapon, there's no like clear indication of what happened, so she's not charged. She moves away to la to escape her life. She lives in anonymity for five years and then a true crime podcaster goes to her hometown, makes this book was made in a lab for you. Yes, massively successful podcast. Um, all of a sudden, her job fires her. Her boyfriend breaks up with her because she is now known as a person who is a murderer. The problem is she also has no memory of that night, so she doesn't even know if she's the one who killed her or not. Yeah, so she decides she's going to help the podcaster uncover the truth about what happened, whether it leads to her or whether it leads to someone else. There is small town intrigue. Everyone knows everyone's business. Uh, the characters are really interesting. The resolution was very satisfying. I think that you will like this. If you are listening to the sound of my voice, you will see so good.
Speaker 2:Finally, I won't go into this too much, but I read the heiress by rachel hawkins, which I accidentally said the other day that I had already read. But I had not already read this, so I read it. I couldn't stop reading it. It was so good You've talked about this before. I, like Rachel Hawkins, I couldn't stop reading this one either. I, like you know, was you know up in the middle of the night, couldn't sleep. I would read it on my phone.
Speaker 1:So it was really good three for three great books, all for different tastes. So what I'm hearing is that I'm great at recommending books you are great at recommending books.
Speaker 2:You are two out of those three and, uh, I think you did a great job, thank you you're welcome.
Speaker 1:I have also read a few bangers. Um great, so I have a quick few. So, um yeah, people for a long, long time have been telling me to read the secret life of addy larue sure and they were right.
Speaker 1:I did really enjoy it. It's like, um, you know, like a time travel historical type beat. Um, really enjoyed it. This is not a hot take. It's like obviously a very popular book, but, um, I did really like it. And specifically to my sister, who's been telling me I should read this book for a long time if you're in the sound of my voice, I did read it and it was good, amazing and also I read um a couple other quick things.
Speaker 1:One is a book called Art and Gwen Are Not in Love by Lex Croucher. This is super cute. This is like a medieval times like romance type thing, about a guy or a girl named Gwen Dillon and a guy named Arthur. And Gwen is the princess of England and she's betrothed to this guy, arthur, but they are like not in love with each other. They't like each other, they're kind of like enemies.
Speaker 1:But it turns out it's because they would never like each other, because both of them are gay, okay, and um, there's like this cool female knight that, like gwen, has weird feelings for, and then, like, when it comes about time for like art and Gwen to really start their courtship, like, uh, art starts feeling interesting feelings for, um, her, her brother, the future king of England, gabriel oh god and so it's like a yeah, it's cute, it's fun does like for people who really care about this being historically accurate.
Speaker 1:Like it's not, obviously, but you'll learn a lot also about like Arthurian legend is like a big part of this book. Like they're living in a time where there's a lot of people who still believe in like King Arthur and that he's going to come back and like like rule England and it was really sweet and cute and I enjoyed it oh, that sounds great and then the last thing I'll share.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm sharing yes no, no, is a book called Amor Actually. Okay, it is a little Christmassy book, um, and it's an anthology, but it's really cool. It's by, like I think there's 10 stories, but they're all from Latino authors and they all got together and were like what if we wrote a book that was like Love Actually the movie, but it was like Latino Sure. And so, using the very basic plot lines of the different storylines in the movie Love Actually, they each took on a different story and it's all about people who are going to come to the same noche buena dinner on christmas eve, yeah, and their love stories getting there and they're all like linked somehow. So they're derivative. They're derived from the stories in love actually, like, there is a recently widowed dad. Yeah, there's co-workers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know like that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's loose.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you'll be able to pick it up if you know the movie well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And was it a perfect book? No, was it really fun? Yes, yeah, and I really enjoyed it. And it's like a cute little holiday snack no, that sounds really cute.
Speaker 2:I am very interested in that yeah, you should read it okay, great. Also, I wanted to say, really fast, before we wrap this up, I have started reading conclave and so I'm really excited to share more about that, but I am really liking it so far. It's like it sucks you right in. It just throws you right into it, I know, I know. So, yeah, I'm hoping to be able to go see the movie soon, so I'm trying to finish it. Okay, exciting times, very exciting times.
Speaker 1:What a time to be alive.
Speaker 2:You know what we were going to talk about. Which we didn't is our book exchange. Oh, which we didn't is our, our book exchange.
Speaker 1:Oh shoot, okay, idea yes, if you made it this far, we have to tell you we're going to do a book exchange. We will be posting something on social media. We will have already done it by the time this comes out and then we'll do it again after, to make sure you know, and we'll say what the deadline is. Haven't figured out when the deadline is yet, but I'll tell you progress, we're working, progress. We just thought it would be fun. You know, the world sucks pretty bad right now. If you don't think that the world sucks pretty bad right now, maybe this podcast is just kidding. I mean, listen to this podcast if you want, but we disagree with you. Um, but it just. It couldn't hurt to spread love more yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're going to do that by doing a little book exchange, linking you with somebody else that you probably don't already know from this community, and you guys can send each other a book.
Speaker 2:It'll be very cute and fun there's never a bad time, but now is a good time to connect with other people, to share books you love and you know, make the community of book loving nerds friends with each other totally and it's like, yeah, share love, share books, happiness, yeah and tell a friend to tell a friend.
Speaker 1:So yeah, anyone can share?
Speaker 2:more information on that soon, but yeah tdb, tdb.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's it chaotic episode we love you bye Outro Music.