The Readirect Podcast
Shifting the conversation back to books. Hosted by Abigail Freshley and Emily Rojas.
The Readirect Podcast
Reading Rewind: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
Our latest episode revisits the beloved Chronicles of Narnia, focusing particularly on The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, exploring its impact on faith, morality, and our childhood memories. Together, we navigate how these themes resonate differently in adulthood, the complexities of C.S. Lewis’s biography, and the cultural conversations surrounding the stories.
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Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. I'm Abigail Freshly.
Speaker 2:And I'm Emily Rojas. The Redirect Podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes show up in our real lived experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode we are doing a reading rewind and we are revisiting the much beloved Chronicles of Narnia, specifically the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
Speaker 2:But first, before we get to that, if you love the pod and we know you do wrap up this year by supporting us in a few simple ways. First, you can go to Apple Podcasts and smash five stars and let us know, leave a comment, let us know how much you love the show smash five stars and let us know, leave a comment, let us know how much you love the show.
Speaker 1:You can also follow us on Instagram and, for the next few weeks, tiktok at Redirect Podcast, and if you really, really love the show, you can share it with a friend. Sharing our show with a friend is the best way to help us grow our community of book-loving nerds, and we have some fun, exciting ways to engage with our online community of book friends next year, including maybe doing some buddy reads on story graph for some exciting releases coming out.
Speaker 2:So definitely want to plug in with us and yeah, um, it's just good fun vibes it's a lot of fun vibes, so go follow us while you still can. As abigail said okay, let's go, I'm ready to talk about this, I'm so excited. Okay, but why in the witch? So the idea here is we were said okay, let's go, I'm ready to talk about this, I'm so excited but why in the witch?
Speaker 1:so the idea here is we were like, okay, let's do another episode, but what we should, what should, what should we do? Yeah, and then we batted around a few ideas and then we were like, wait, narnia is kind of christmasy because there's like a santa moment, father christmas father christmas moment yes, and it's eternal winter, you know and we both have an interesting history with this book series.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it just kind of felt natural for us to talk about yeah, I think we've talked about the chronicles of narnia a few times in a few different episodes on this yeah, but not a devoted episode, so it's exciting to get into it.
Speaker 2:it's definitely a part of the fabric of my life Maybe more than I realized which we can talk about more when we unpack.
Speaker 1:So let's start there. So tell me about your experience like with this book in your youth.
Speaker 2:My first exposure to the Chronicles of Narnia was singing in the choir of this production, which they did two years in a row, if I remember correctly, at our church. Do you not remember that they did this twice? For sure I believe you, because there was two different casts. I think some of the adult parts were the same. But yeah, so they did this twice. But we were really little, so I was probably in kindergarten and I just remember that there was a Turkish Delight song. I still remember all the songs, but that was like my first experience. And then, of course, as I got older, I think I read the books. But yeah, the first exposure to the series was the lion, the witch and the wardrobe, musical adaptation, ambiguously like where did they get the rights from?
Speaker 1:I don't really know where did the music come? From unclear unclear, but I do remember it was bangers oh, that's yeah.
Speaker 2:As I was thinking of this production, I'm like I think actually this is where my love for like musicals and theater came from was being in the kids choir of the show, because I just remember like the costumes were so good and I just remember being like I want to be those freaking beavers one day or, like you know, lucy or something, I don't remember who, any like who, anything else about it.
Speaker 1:But well, friend of the pod, emma. Her older sister, grace, was mrs beaver yes, I do remember that, yeah um, I also remember about that. Like at the cast party they gave the kids turkish delight. Is it like, okay, it's fun, now everyone gets to finally try turkish delight and we're all like this is ass isn't good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember it being like oh, okay, uh anyways um.
Speaker 2:So I was. I was just googling, uh, lion, witch and the wardrobe musical, and there I'm sure there is like a, um, like a okay, here we go for his glory. That's what I'm talking about. There's probably like a school one. I'm sure that people like schools put it on, but this one was heavy, like obviously this is a religious allegory which we can talk more about, obviously, but um, this was like heavy on the, the church, like anyways, I'm sure it's not how it was. You know, the school version would not be.
Speaker 1:So then, that was your first exposure, and so then did you read the books.
Speaker 2:Yes, I read the books. I think most of them in like elementary school or I don't know whenever. They would have been probably elementary school, but now I have all of them. This is my copy, they're all. I have all of them bound in one um version that I bought, probably in high school, and I have reread this many times. So it's definitely something I've revisited before now. So it's not as uh jarring as some of the other ones that I have not revisited since I was like six. But yeah, I don't know if I read all of them as a kid, but I definitely remember reading like the Magician's Nephew. I remember reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I don't know about some of the other ones, but I do remember those as a young kid reading them. Yeah, what about you? What's your experience?
Speaker 1:Yeah, same introduction, but also my older brother was a big reader and he's 11 years older than me for those who don't already know that and he was like a big fantasy reader. He loved Lord of the Rings, he loved Chronicles of Narnia, and so he was also a big introduction to that for me. So he gave me all of his books and, um, I didn't read them all. Um, I read magicians when I was a kid, like maybe late elementary, early middle. I read um magicians, nephew lying the witch in the wardrobe, and then prince caspian. I know for a fact I did not read horse and His Boy, because I'm reading that right now.
Speaker 1:And it is definitely not as good as some of the other ones, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like, you know, there's like in Little House on the Prairie there's like that one book that's like the boy's perspective and it's like a outtake, like it feels like from another world. That's how I feel about, uh, the horse and his boy. You're like, okay, what is even going on here?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's, yeah, it's really interesting. Um so, anyways, uh, that was my introduction to it, and then obviously the movie that came out was big, but really just being like, because obviously we grew up very religious and so it was just like this is like, this is the book to read, yeah, like, are you even a Christian if you haven't read this book? Yeah, and also just like how hard CS Lewis went on being like, extremely like, take for take, literal, like, literally, like, if you don't get, this is jesus, I'm gonna freak out um kind of thing like really really closing the window for interpretation, yeah, on like what this could be, um, so that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's the most literal of all of the like christian adjacent books out there and I feel like, um, you know, talking, transitioning to like what it was like revisiting this, I think, unfortunately, I really like cs lewis. I have several of his other books that are not for little kids. I like his writing but, um, it's like if he hadn't been so literal, I feel like how the whole series ends, which we can talk again more about, uh, with susan being left behind and the you know the final whatever. Um, it's like it didn't. He feels like he wrote himself into a corner is what I'm trying to say of like being so literal in this book then kind of closes down how much he could have expanded the world, because this was the first book he wrote in this series the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and it feels like he could have been a little less like beat for beat, like you said, and there might be more room to just experience Narnia and not be like what does this mean about God?
Speaker 1:Like everything has to be like an object, right? Right, I mean yeah. So maybe this is a good time to maybe enter, uh, inject a little like cs lewis biography, yes, and we can talk about his influence, like what influenced to write this book, yes, but um, so cs lewis lived from 1898 to 1963. He died a few few days after JFK was shot. Did you know that?
Speaker 2:Whoa, it was too much for him, it was too much, Probably not because he was an American.
Speaker 1:He was born in Northern Ireland and his writing career really took off in the 1940s during his literature professorship at Cambridge. This was driven home to me many times during our college career because there was like a do you remember the Cambridge study abroad?
Speaker 2:group. Do I remember?
Speaker 1:Talk about elitist, okay. So at our college you had to have a cross-cultural experience to graduate, and so some people did like a study abroad semester. You could go on these like short term trips with the school, and so one of them was a study abroad semester at Cambridge, and the people who got accepted to that and did that insufferable were in well, it was so insane here, the end of that.
Speaker 1:And then they were like, oh, we're getting together for our Cambridge abroad um like reunion and oh god, remember when we were in Cambridge together and like, oh my god, remember we went to CS Lewis's writing room Because that was like a whole thing. It's like they would go to his house.
Speaker 2:Yes, and just like okay, the most insane part about that is that, in order to make it onto the trip, it was so competitive that people would camp out for days ahead of, like, the sign up sheet being posted, and so it would just be like every semester there'd be a day where people were just camping out outside of this building what? Professor led that I don't know. Who did lead that I don't know.
Speaker 1:Was it like with the School of Religion? Was it, dr Cross?
Speaker 2:No, no, I think it was with Humanities. It was Humanities. No, no, I think it was with humanities.
Speaker 1:It was humanities, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know Cause they were always outside the humanities building.
Speaker 1:Whatever I?
Speaker 2:just know everyone who went on. That is the most annoying person and no disrespect to those people.
Speaker 1:You know everyone who ever went on one. Yeah, because you know everyone.
Speaker 2:Shut the fuck up about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Famous, anyways, yeah, so that. But he's like really interesting, okay, so I have read some of his other books too. He's like adults, kind of like nonfiction. Pondering is on Christianity and faith. And like I think for the time he was like super, like a leading thinker in the 20th century about Christianity he wrote and like also it's really Christianity.
Speaker 1:He wrote and like also it's really interesting. It's hard to like pin him down theologically. I think Sometimes he's you're like wow, this sounds super Calvinist, very big on like predestination and like very like conservative theology. For people who didn't grow up the way that we did, that is what that means Like a lot more conservative.
Speaker 1:The shiver doesn't run down your spine with the word Calvinist and then like there are other moments where it almost seems like he's a universalist and where he is, like like in the great divorce, like he seems like a lot more optimistic about the idea that like there's universal salvation for everyone, and it's really hard to pull him down and I think like a lot of it came more from his personal experiences and he probably his, his beliefs probably evolved over time yeah, that's my impression of him um am I remembering this right that he also was an atheist for a long time and then, I think, like became a christian?
Speaker 1:um, I don't know if that's like a folk tale or or reality anyways, I feel like the lion, the witch in the wardrobe, for instance, gives me more conservative theology vibes. Yeah, yeah, um to me, and like that's what was coming out to me when I was reading, rereading it as an adult, as a kid. Well, a few things, a few observations for me rereading it this time. And I a kid? Well, a few things, a few observations for me at rereading it this time.
Speaker 1:And I'd be curious to hear what you think Like. First of all I was like oh yeah, this is a kid's book. Yeah, and I was a kid reading this, I was like this is such an intense book. This is like so real.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um. So first of all, that was my big shock. I was like, oh yeah, um. So first of all, that was my big shock. I was like, oh yeah, this is for kids. And then I was also like, wow, this guy is really like really following these like ideas about sin and redemption and stuff. Yeah, that makes sense to some people and don't make sense to other people. So like, for instance, this idea that edmund has like committed this like unforgivable thing, like this unatonable situation, right by, like kind of screwing over his brothers and sisters when he didn't even know aslan existed. Yeah, and accepting turkish delight from the white witch, yeah, like he was a kid and he kind of just like, right, okay, stupid yes, one thought about that before you continue your thought.
Speaker 2:uh, so like, I'm just rereading this and I will say I also re-watched the movie, which I would love to talk more about. But, um, I'm like, okay, so lucy meets this Vaughn guy. He tries to kidnap her, brings her back to his house like drugs her essentially, and then is like, oh, nevermind, get out of here. That's her experience. And then Edmund comes in and this really nice seeming lady gives him Turkish delight, hot cocoa. It's like, come on back anytime. Obviously we know she's evil, but I'm like, but he didn't know that know she's evil, but I'm like but he didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he, I don't know, I'm starting to lean towards edmund's experience was better. Then lucy comes back. She's like no, don't worry, tom, this is actually nice he did. He has this old, creepy half goat man who tried to drug and kidnap me, but he's on the good side and this nice lady with the candy is on the bad side. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think this like it opens a bigger conversation to what you were naturally exposed to. So it just so happened, yeah, that the first person that Lucy met was one of the quote-unquote good guys. Yeah, and so that was her experience. And it just so happened that the first guy that Edmund met was a quote unquote bad person. Yeah Well, they had no barometer to judge what is good and bad Right In Narnia, because they'd never been there. It's this unfamiliar world. So, as an adult, when I'm reading this, it's like okay, so Lucy was born into a Christian family and just happened to go to church every day of her life since she was born.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know essentially, and therefore she is just got really lucky. And then she will say the prayer and do the plan of salvation and she'll go to heaven and Edmund like wasn't so just like screw him yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, like, yeah, he does, he does come back around. So there's that interpretation as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to me. I was like, as an adult, I'm looking at this with a more critical eye and I'm like, but did he even really do anything wrong?
Speaker 2:like he's a kid yeah, yeah, no to sum it up, it's just weirder as an adult to read yeah for me it's weird as an adult, for because they're all children and you're like, actually I don't think any of them should be involved in this. I think they should have turned back around once they heard there's a war coming. They should have left Narnia. They should have gone back through the wardrobe there's already a war in their home Like, let's go deal with that. You know, let's stay out of this fictional realm. We don't know who's good, we don't know who's bad, we don't know this Aslan character. I'm out.
Speaker 1:I think that's safe, you know. Oh, and being like go fight in a war, yeah, and, by the way, when girls fight in wars it's bad. Yeah, he literally said that.
Speaker 2:That was like that was tough yeah also in the later books race gets really weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because everyone from narnia is described as having light skin and all the bad people than other kingdoms that don't believe in aslan and the emperor across the sea, which I want to get into that in a second yes, um, they all have dark skin yeah, that's very tough, it's tough, it's really tough.
Speaker 2:I just want one thing for my childhood to not be racist.
Speaker 1:Please, god, I'm just asking you for one thing. Could you guys have just chilled for one second?
Speaker 2:Like I know, it was the 1940s. I don't care, I don't like it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it is actually a literal fantasy land. This is a place where beavers talk. And there are half goat, half men. Anyways, that doesn't come up in line which the wardrobe, but it does come up in the horse and his boy, yes, anyways, um, yeah, I mean okay on a positive note there's lots of positive notes about this. It was very cozy to read, so it's a very cozy book very quick like in my version is 80 pages. Cozy, yeah, yours was how many pages?
Speaker 2:80, I mean. They're longer pages than a normal children's book, obviously, but um, yeah, it's a, it's nice because that will be well, that's one thing about rereading it. I have never, or in so long, I haven't just read one book by itself, like I'll just sit down and read this whole thing from you know the whatever start to finish, um, and like it was really weird that was more jarring to me too of like, this is actually super short.
Speaker 1:I'm not used to this being something I read on its own, so uh, yeah they're very short yeah, so also this book came out in the 40s right yeah, early 50s. Okay, uh, I think 50s yeah so this maybe was at the earlier point in cs lewis's journey of like his theological let's go with that positioning um, I'm like also I'm understanding that this is a book that's written for children, so like having to make it's hard to discuss, like big theological concepts, sure, and so you know, making things simple, but yeah, it was just very, very, really interesting to read, do you think?
Speaker 2:that. So at the end of the book. If you've never read this, maybe we should do a plot. If someone's never read the Witch and the Wardrobe, why don't you explain what happens?
Speaker 1:Sure, okay. So it's England. It's World War II. Yeah, the Pevensie kids are leaving London because of the threat of bombs and stuff. So they go and live with a family friend, the professor out in the country, and he lives in this house that has. And they stumble upon a mansion, yeah, and lucy goes in there, the youngest girl, one day, and she it leads to a magical winter wonderland world. And she comes back, tells her she meets mr tumness the hangout. She comes back and tells her siblings and they're like we don't believe you. Yeah, and obviously. And then Edmund goes in there one day and he realized that it is. Is it? It is real. And he meets um, the white witch, who calls herself the queen of Narnia. She gives him Turkish delight and she's like bring your siblings back, because there's this like crazy prophecy that at the palace of narnia called care paravel, there's four thrones and that, like narnia, will be healed when, like four people sons and daughters, yeah, sons of adams and daughters of eve like are on the throne which, by the way, care.
Speaker 2:Paravel is an awesome name. He really slayed when he came up with that.
Speaker 1:He snapped on that anyways, and so, um, they're all like playing a game one day and they like are like hiding away from this, like tour that's going on in the mansion, and they go through the wardrobe and they're all in Narnia and they're like Edmund, you little freak, why did you make Lucy look like an idiot?
Speaker 2:Like when you knew this was real. You suck, Edmund. We hate you. We wish you weren't our brother yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:And then they lucy's like let's go see mr tumness. But mr tumness has been like kidnapped and arrested by the white witch and her cronies for like not selling out lucy when she was there. And uh, edmund's like hey, like I actually don't know what's right and what's wrong, and you guys are talking about how she's bad, but like that's not what I know, and I know she gave me turkish delight, yeah. So I'm actually going to peace out and tell her that you guys are here yeah because I really want more and, like also, the turkish delight is magical.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is something I've missed in the past. It's yeah, it's like an. This is an allegory for sin sure in the way where it's like you have a little bit and you can't stop, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that that's not clear and a lot of people's only experience with this is the movie and they're like is turkish light really that good? But in the book he's explicitly says this is bewitched turkish delight and it good. But in the book he's explicitly says this is bewitched turkish light and it's like once you eat it, you can't stop eating it, like you'll always crave it for the rest of your life which is horrible, by the way as if it was from like good and evil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that too. So then, like edmund's like off. And now the white witch is pissed because he came back but he didn't bring the siblings. Yeah, and the good guys like mr and mrs beaver and whatever, they're all trying to find Aslan because they've heard that Aslan is on the move which is also Aslan, is a lion who is like the true king of Narnia however yeah, also, he's a true king of Narnia, but I guess it hasn't been very important to him to come back and save his subjects for perpetual winter with no Christmas under the rule of an authoritarian ice queen.
Speaker 2:That's none of my business.
Speaker 1:That's none of my business. Who knows where he's been?
Speaker 2:They're like Aslan. I don't know. He might be coming back though soon. So you know, because you guys are here now.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so, yeah. So now he feels compelled, but me, though. So that's another thing that I was just like I've always been suspicious of aslan, respectfully to jesus.
Speaker 2:I don't like aslan that much. I'm like you, just come when you want you disappear. I don't like that. You know much. I'm like you, just come when you want you disappear. I don't like that.
Speaker 1:It's kind of, and no one asks any questions about it. Yeah, and then, basically, because so Edmund has done this betrayal by using the information that was given to him, telling the White Witch that his siblings are here and that Aslan is on the move, and because of that she feels that she's entitled to his blood, because he has made a betrayal yes there's like some like that's some deep magic yeah, the deep magic.
Speaker 1:Like y'all need to work on revising the laws in your constitution if that's how things work there, yes, but then aslan is like hey, actually, um, so I'll do it, you can kill me instead. But then it's like I rose from the dead, because actually there's an even deeper magic that I didn't tell you about, because me and the emperor across the sea, right who I have questions about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, but me and the emperor across the sea, we came up with an even deeper magic before the foundation of the earth right and that if I gave my, if I was innocent, I gave myself in his place, right um, he would be forgiven and I would come back to life right and the stone table breaks in half and, uh, death moves backwards, as he says so yeah, and then they have a huge war and then the white witch dies, yeah, and then edmund like to be to redeem edmund at the very end.
Speaker 1:He like fights harder than anyone and like directly helps kill the white witch and is like committed to narnia, so and he ends up being named king edmund the just I know. So they all get crowned as kings and queens of Narnia. Peter is the high king and everyone else is kind of just like junior. Yeah, and it's like king, uh high king, peter the brave, I think Peter the brave Edmund, the just Susan, susan, the gentle gentle. And Lucy is the uh, she's like jolly happy, something like that. She's like jolly happy, something like that. No, it's something better than that. Queen Lucy the valiant, the valiant.
Speaker 2:That is better than jolly yeah. To circle back on our. Who would we vote for? For president? I'm back on Edmund. I just want to be clear about that. I would like King of them in the just.
Speaker 1:He didn't make this world. He just walked into a wardrobe one day yeah, magical candy. He didn't make this world.
Speaker 2:He just walked into a wardrobe one day.
Speaker 1:So yeah him in magical candy. He's a kid, he like. He made the decisions he had to make yeah, and he redeemed himself yeah, I don't do.
Speaker 1:I think that that means that he is like inherently sinful and like total depravity of man. No, I don't, and that's where I think me and CS Lewis differ on this. We come down differently on this, but yeah, so then they kind of like grow up, they don't remember their old world. And then one day they're like riding around in the woods and they find the lamppost and they follow it and they go back into the mansion and no time has passed really, and they're now that again would piss me off that would.
Speaker 2:I have so many questions about that because I'm like okay, here's, here's number one. How do you forget where you came from? Were they never like hey, how did we get here? We don't have parents, you know, we're just kid kings and queens no magic I don't like that number two. When they got back to our Earth, do you think they were like whoa, this is crazy. Here we have this guy, jesus. Over there there was this Aslan guy. Same exact thing. Do you guys think there's?
Speaker 1:a connection? Actually, the thing that I think about is I'd be like I went through puberty when I was there. That was my number three, and now I have to come back and do that again.
Speaker 2:Especially freaking. Lucy, she's eight, she's like eight years old. I was a queen and now I'm eight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was getting marriage proposals. And now I'm eight again.
Speaker 2:And then I need someone to write that story. I'll get into the fan fiction later, oh, you're putting me in timeout. I was the queen of narnia, yeah, I'm not going to time out, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I already had like an authority complex where I was really rebellious of authority as a kid. I just feel like I would have a really insufferable time with this?
Speaker 2:I would too. I'm like you got to take me back. Honestly, you got to take me back and also doesn't that mess with your mind, like you have all these memories and then they're dating later in life. They're like, oh yeah, back when I was sorry. I shouldn't have said it back when I was an adult the first time uh, yeah, that would be such a like a trippy, like I feel like I understand this is a kid's book, but I cannot imagine the experience.
Speaker 1:I wish it was an adult book and we could really uh go deep into what that would be like we always come down on this and that's true we wind up, said like gosh, I need I saw a text on the other day about the movie, the holiday, and at the end, when they're like at new year's and it's like fading out and the credits are rolling, she's like I can't watch this because what's the plan? Yeah, is someone moving to england? Is someone going to california? How, yes, how, are we all working this out in the future? That's how I felt ending this book.
Speaker 2:I was like what's up, but yeah, but now what?
Speaker 1:happens to the pevenseys right also like. In his tenure as high king of narnia, peter has like led the narnian army to like victory over their opponents and like should he like be involved in world war ii now?
Speaker 2:that's how d-day happened. Peter starts calling people up. He's like I've got a genius plan. As former high king of narnia, please put me in coach, but actually I don't know how to use guns.
Speaker 1:I only know how to wield swords and other archaic type beat weapons.
Speaker 2:It's tough. Yeah, his dad comes back from war and he's like man, war's a real b****. Huh dad. He's like yeah, he's got PTSD. Oh my god, but I mean letting go of that and reading this, looking at this through a child's eyes. Oh yeah, it's delightful.
Speaker 1:It is cool to be like kids could. This is for kids too, like this whole world and adventure of life, and like faith and salvation and courage. All is accessible to kids too. I think I just come down differently about the characterization of aslan yeah, tough, tough for me.
Speaker 2:For me, I agree, never liked that guy. Awesome. Okay, let's talk about I want to talk about the movie adaptation. I watched it last night. Um, I wrote down my thoughts so I just want to go through this list really fast. But first of all I want to say number one. This is probably top tier, tied with hunger games, for greatest movie adaptations. It's good. They took an 80 page book and made it into a two and a half hour movie. That really nails it like they. They just. I was jarred reading this book because I'm like, oh, I forgot the like extreme scene at the beginning where the bombs are dropping on england and edmund runs back into the house like you know what I'm talking about. That's not even in here. None of this is in here, but they just expanded. So many great things anyways, great adaptation. The battle scene.
Speaker 1:The battle scene is one of the greatest battle scenes of all time we're like the good guys and the bad guys are running at each other and it's like quiet. And then you see the leopard like yes, insane, insane, well done.
Speaker 2:I don't know what happened to the rest of these movies that are like flying over and like yes, dropping boulders and stuff.
Speaker 1:It's incredible. It's incredible Chills.
Speaker 2:I wanted to say Did no one teach Lucy Stranger Danger? Because what? The? She sees a guy and immediately goes home with him. I don't like that. Also this book and movie. It's a part of my lexicon, I realized, because I say spare um all the time and the. This is a meme, but don't cite the deep magic to me which, uh, and also I say for narnia and for aslan all the time, which is from the battle scene, okay, uh, in the movie, even more than the book, I feel like edmund is now treated fairly.
Speaker 1:They are so mean to edmund in the movie like literally they hate him I would say he is more of a little brat and then, like he's mean, to lucy yes okay, that's the strike I will hold against him. Yes, I think he's actually innocent of the rest of the charges. Yes, because, again, he knows nothing about aslan when he makes this decision. I think he's innocent of that charge? I think that he's not innocent of being a bully to his little sister.
Speaker 2:Agree, he was very mean to her, but also they were very mean to him Also. Susan is really annoying in the movie. She's not annoying in the book, but in the movie. I hate her and I'm glad she doesn't make it to heaven in the end. And also.
Speaker 1:finally, one thing I will say against Lucy I mean sorry about Susan, like in the Horse and His Boy is that she's kind of like she knows that she's that bitch.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's like, oh, I'm like the one really pretty human girl here, yes, and like you guys have to like deal with that, like I'm your only option, like I am, yeah, and I am, I am the queen of narnia yes, queen susan, and like be nice to me, yeah, where I'm calling aslan, yes exactly, she's a garen.
Speaker 2:Um. And lastly, I said if, uh, if I met santa and he started giving me presents and telling me about war, I would leave instantly, because why is santa giving me, uh af me African poison daggers, no sword and arrows and healing ointment Like this is not it.
Speaker 1:This is not it, I would say. Of all the presents, though, I'm going to want the one that Lucy got.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's the best one. That's so cool.
Speaker 1:It's awesome, but yeah, like weapons and stuff.
Speaker 2:I would be like this is my present, like I asked for a PS5. So can you try again?
Speaker 1:Can I have more Turkish?
Speaker 2:Delight. You got some of that Turkish Delight Edmund was talking about that. Good, but yeah, I love this adaptation. I remember going to see it. I don't know I was trying to remember like why did I go to see this? But I went to see it. I don't know, I was trying to remember like why did I go to see this? But I went to see this with my fifth grade class and we like I think it was like a prize we had won Maybe for like good attendance or I don't know. But we went to see it on a school trip and I remember it was amazing and it blew my mind. It was so good and the other movies are just not good. Mind, it was so good and then the other movies are just not good.
Speaker 1:The subsequent adaptations are not to this level I have I had never even. I don't think I only watched the voyage of the dawn treader, like once. But it's terrible.
Speaker 1:I have, um, like a visceral memory of seeing this movie in theaters because I saw it over my Christmas break and I had like a homework that I saw this like on the last day of my Christmas break and I had homework that was due the next day and I remember me, with undiagnosed anxiety disorder, sitting in that movie and the whole time thinking, oh my God, I have to do this homework.
Speaker 2:That's real.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I have to do this homework later. And then getting this sick feeling in my stomach like oh my god, it's gonna be so hard to do it later. And I couldn't stop thinking about the homework. That's real, and that feeling comes up every time I watch this movie.
Speaker 2:Wow so are you talking about this movie, this the limelight and the wardrobe? Then I remember the prince cassian movie. I remember how mad everyone was because they tried to make like this love thing happen with susan and cassie. I was talking to zach about this last night. Yes, what did he say?
Speaker 1:well, we had like a mind meld because I was like, oh my god, I remember prince caspian and, yes, fight for a second. And then we both looked at each other and in unison we were like it started out as a feeling if you know, you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want you to speaking of uh romance. I want you to guess. I went on ao3 for this episode and I looked at the fan fiction uh for the chronicles of narnia oh, it's gonna be something super fucked up and it's not that bad.
Speaker 2:I want to say number one and lucy no, no I want to say number one most of, actually most of, the fan fiction for chronicles in arnia which is probably because it's children's book although that doesn't stop people, it is not romantic. A lot of it is actually like about susan and like what happened to her after. So, if you don't know, in the last book, canonically the three siblings, peter, edmund and lucy, are killed in a train crash and make their way to narnia and susan is not able to come because she no longer believes in narnia or whatever like. There's a lot of think pieces about that, um, which is just like deeply traumatizing to imagine being the only sibling and your other siblings were killed in a train crash and you don't know they're in narnia, you don't know that they're all right up there, you're just dead.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of fan fiction about Susan, which I'm very interested in reading actually. But I want you to guess by a wide margin what the number one ship is on AO3. It's more than double the next option. I don't think you'll guess it. I never would have come up with it.
Speaker 1:The first thing I was thinking is it was going to have to do with Tumnus.
Speaker 2:No, no Tumnus, Can you?
Speaker 1:give me one of the people in the ship and I'll tell you the other person.
Speaker 2:Prince.
Speaker 1:Caspian, I feel like Susan is like right there. No but oh, Peter.
Speaker 2:Nope who. Edmund and Prince Caspian is the number one ship, really, of all ships, any ships of the Chronicles of Narnia fandom. It is the number one On AO3. Now, I don't know about the other mediums out there, but it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of questions about it, but that's that. So I was shocked. I never would have put those two together, but it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 1:You know who I love from the Princess Caspian book is Reepicheek.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's the best yeah he's awesome. So yeah, that's my fan fiction corner, but I'm very interested in reading all these other ones. There's a lot dealing with Susan's experience and her finding her way back to Narnia or something, and I don't know. Susan and Caspian is the second ship that I found, second most popular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't even know if I have any more thoughts. I just you wanted to talk about the Emperor Across the Sea. Yeah, the Emperor Across the Sea has like absentee, so I am aware that in this allegory, the emperor across the sea is supposed to be like God the father.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And Aslan is supposed to be like Jesus, yeah, god, the son I'm. I'm confused about like rounding out that Trinity. If there's like something else that's supposed to be representative of the Holy spirit, hmm, maybe it's magic, maybe it's the d magic, yeah, yeah, um, but the emperor across the sea kind of just like off, I don't know like also the way that it goes with the other, like kingdoms, like the emperor is emperor of all kingdoms, but narnia is the only one that like acknowledges the emperor. And then it's like okay, who's the real head of state of narnia?
Speaker 1:is it the emperor across the sea? Yeah, is it aslan or is it the Pevensies?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do you think? How do you think that works? Okay, so it's like God. You know, up there he sends down Jesus. He's like I am up here, you go, that's.
Speaker 1:Aslan, I'm across the sea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm across the sea. I don't have a boat. Aslan, you're a lion, so go over there, as as when he goes down he's like I'm gonna sort all this out. Stone table broken in half.
Speaker 1:Kill the witch and then I'm out, I'm bringing, I'm bringing the humans into that's jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, and then now you guys got to be the pastors and you got to grow this little church of narnia, of my kingdom, and you got to. You know, take care of it because I'm out. I got other kingdoms to deal with. I already went to Earth 2,000 years ago. He's been hitting up every planet, you know, because, back to the canon of Narnia, how Narnia is discovered is these two kids end up in this like great forest and there's pools everywhere and every time they go down in a pool it's like a different world and it's like infinite pools. So CS Lewis, big on parallel universes, he so Aslan. That's why he can't stay, because he's been dying and coming back to life in every single planet. He's got to keep going.
Speaker 1:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean yeah. So it's tough stuff for stuff for a lion.
Speaker 1:He's a lion here. He's jesus here somewhere else. He's like uh, I don't know what else. So do you think that cs lewis believes in? Do you think he believed in parallel universes for real? No, no okay, hey, who knows though, who can say what did you believe CS? I would say in conclusion rereading this was a lot of fun, yeah, and that we just need to remember every time we do a Read and Rewind episode, I forget that I'm supposed to like. Obviously, I'm going to read it differently now I'm an adult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I have more information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, I liked it. Yeah, and are you gonna keep reading them? You're on the horse and his boy?
Speaker 1:um, probably not. I'm probably just gonna read the horse and his boy and then maybe dip, but I don't know some of the other ones are so good.
Speaker 2:The voyage of the non-gender. I always like that one unknown, did we just okay.
Speaker 1:So greta gerwig is going to be directing a um adaptation of the chronicles of narnia.
Speaker 2:Yeah zash last night said it was silver chair I have seen the magician's nephew floated out there, but I don't think she has directly said or there hasn't been like casting, or I don't think it's like the characters are known yet. So I just know. I think it is definitive that she's going to be adapting things that haven't been adapted yet, or like not the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, or at least not starting there, so maybe I do just need to see it through.
Speaker 1:I'm interested. I mean, I trust Greta.
Speaker 2:Gerwig, I really do, and she seems like she really wanted to do it, so that makes me think she's coming at it. She has a as a yeah, someone who's interested in it, so I don't know cool we'll see if I keep reading these, maybe in the uh after christmas yeah all right great talk same.
Speaker 1:Have you read anything recently?
Speaker 2:Several things Free from you. So I read the Winter Street series. Okay, what did you think? Wow, you know what I thought after reading this Dramatic I'm like we really need to do an Eldon Hildebrand deep dive. So add that to your docket. Oh, I have to read more. I have so many questions about her but, fascinatingly, I think the most interesting thing about her is her books are so dramatic but they don't fall into that category of books I hate where, like it's just trauma porn basically, and like things just happen to manipulate the reader. It's like no, it feels very authentic somehow, even though this is the most dramatic family that I have ever met in my life, like every bad thing in life that could happen did you read all of them?
Speaker 2:I read all four, yeah, in like two days, I don't know yeah, more than that.
Speaker 1:Like they're so short, why I read them so quickly too?
Speaker 2:it's just like they're addicting and they always end on a freaking cliffhanger like I gotta know what's gonna happen. But literally, let's just go down the list. In this series there is a love triangle quadrangle, there's broken engagements, there's infidelity, there's drug addiction there's cancer prisoner of war. People die. There's multiple affairs. There's people reconnecting addiction. Did I forget anything?
Speaker 2:anything, I don't know it's crazy broken engagements, patched up engagements, accidental pregnancy, multiple miscarriage, miscarriage yes, crazy uh, but somehow it doesn't feel like uh, freaking colleen hoover where you're like you're just doing this to manipulate me. I don't know how she does it, but it was great. Her character development is better, so it feels earned yeah, and I feel like she doesn't dwell on like the traumatic thing. It's more like this happened now.
Speaker 2:Here's how the characters react to it versus like really milking whatever the trauma is and making you feel like depressed about it and like viscerally experiencing it. So I think that's the difference.
Speaker 1:And they seem earned. So like, for instance, there's a character who develops a pill addiction because of a difficult thing that happened with their spouse, and so that it actually makes that made sense.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah, it made perfect triangles make sense, although Ava is the most annoying person I've ever encountered in a book.
Speaker 1:And the idea the biggest reach of this. Don't get me started.
Speaker 2:There was a prisoner of war, like. There's references in this to like crazy things happening. And the most biggest reach in this book is that Ava had three men who wanted to marry her.
Speaker 1:That girl she is so annoying Is the worst, and every book she has like new someone else tripping over themselves to get married to her.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I kept being like, okay, this is a four book series over four years. I'm sure that she's going to mature and we're finally going to get some redemption for her. But no, I think she's just an annoying person.
Speaker 1:I think she was just born that way.
Speaker 2:The most insane thing also is in one of these books, Ellen Hildebrand references one of her own books. Her book is given out as a party favorite at a wedding shower. I guess she has like a wedding in Nantucket book and it's like I laid out a copy of Ellen Hildebrand's wedding in Nantucket for every guest. I have never experienced that before, but I really enjoyed it. I think it's a great Christmas read, honestly.
Speaker 1:They're really fun. I'm not mad about it.
Speaker 2:No, I will say they decline in quality. Like I really enjoyed the first one, yeah, the second two, I think I pretty equally enjoyed the last one. I didn't really like as much.
Speaker 1:Me too.
Speaker 2:I think last one I didn't really like as much, but me too, I think she was just like all right, I gotta see this. You gotta wrap this up. Yeah, gotta kill. The first one is great, though. Uh, yeah, okay. Next I read, uh, time to shine by rachel reed, which you recommended to me. This book was so good. I it's a hockey romance. It's about two teammates who fall in love, landon and Casey. Casey is like a star of the team, and then Landon's called up from like the. I don't know, semi-pro league AAA.
Speaker 1:like minor league of hockey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's called up temporarily and so Casey's like come live with me because I'm lonely, desperately. And they're just like polar opposites, so cute. So it's like I can't even tell you Okay, look, I love a slow burn. You guys know I love yearning. This was that. But normally when I read a slow burn romance, by the end I'm like, okay, they got together. I'm bored of these people now. Like I want them to get together at the very end because otherwise I start to get like I don't care anymore. But this I was like, oh, I don't want this to ever end. I don't ever want to stop reading about Casey and Landon. Like I just love them so much. They feel like people I know. It just was very, very nice and it deals with like some serious I don't know like serious topics. They both like have their own struggles and their own dynamics and it was still just like really cute and it's very christmasy. So I would recommend that. Uh, although you're hearing this past christmas, I still think you should read it this winter. And I read kiss her once for me by allison cochran, which you also told me to read, and also I love allison cochran. Uh, this one stressed me out a little bit, so it was my least favorite book by her. I think that I've read um, but if it follows dynamics, yeah, it was just like too stressful. But um, I did like it's still 4.5 stars.
Speaker 2:But uh, basically this, this, these two people, jack and what's the girl's name I'm looking at the description ellie. Jack and ellie. They meet um one christmas eve or something and it's snowing and they have spent this magical day together and then, um, they kind of like never see each other again and it broke ellie's heart and she's like I will never love again. And then she ends up in a fake engagement with, like, her landlord of the coffee shop she works with and she goes to, agrees to go to christmas with him for this like fake engagement plot. And when she gets there, his sister is jack, who she was in love with, and also andrew is like in love with jack's best friend, dylan, and there's. So it's like a love quadrangle again. Uh, I don't know if that's the right word, but I think that's how they refer to it in this book anyways it's.
Speaker 1:It's a little stressful for me, grandma, very fun family.
Speaker 2:It's really cute very cute, it's just, it was just like. I can't. I'm stressed out, I don't like that. You haven't confessed to this person you're in love with, that.
Speaker 2:You're lying to them about this, um like uh this whole scheme and the family dynamics are crazy, but I did like it. It was just like a lot going on, so that's why it's a little less than her other books for me, but I did really like this. It was cute and it was a good, nice resolution and it's also a christmas ebook, so that's what I'm on lately. It's christmas romances. I'll take any more you got for me and I finally finished the ballad of songbirds and snakes, because I'm trying to I'm trying to beef up your numbers and finish your dnfs yes.
Speaker 2:So I went back. I had like three chapters left. I literally had three chapters left and actually I really liked it. I was like maybe I, if I read this book now I would like it more, because I just think I wasn't maybe in the right mood. But uh, yeah, I finished it, so yay it was a good ending. But I still don't like the. I don't like reading about someone who I don't like, you know. Know, I want an interesting, you know, main character. Okay, that's what I've read lately. Sorry, blabbing on.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love when you read the books I tell you to read. I know, I know I got to diversify though Cause you know, speaking of which, I read a book you told me to read, which is say you, by Nina Kumar. We're reading it for my book club for January. Oh great and I really liked it. That's good. I knew you would like it. I don't even know, because I feel like typically I don't like miscommunication, right, and there is a bit of miscommunication, but it feels reasonable that there's miscommunication.
Speaker 1:It feels like yeah, of course you would not be communicating clearly in this situation right so I'm okay with it. Um, and I just loved the characters. They were so lovable. I wanted like I just I just wanted more good things. I thought they were both so cute. In my head they were both adorable. Yeah and um, I just like, I loved so much.
Speaker 2:What more could you ask for? More fake dating. It was so great.
Speaker 1:I really I can't believe it's her debut. I know she has another book coming out at the beginning of the year. Oh, yay, they have on hold at the library.
Speaker 2:It's called Flirting with Disaster.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I'm very excited about that and I kind of thought when she was breadcrumbing, that there was going to be a sequel about um her sister?
Speaker 2:yes, I was. I was wondering about that. This is not that? I don't think so, because in the epilogue of the book she wrapped things up about her sister I know, even though she did wrap things up in the epilogue, I still would very much like to read her sister's perspective of her romance, because I was very interested in what was going on there, even though it was like chaotic infidelity.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I was the least interested in that the whole book. Yeah, that was my least interesting thing, but I really liked it and highly recommend.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know at least one other person in my book club has read the book and liked it Good. A lot of pressure, since I was the one who suggested it, I know that is pressure.
Speaker 1:We did make a new rule in our book club that if you suggest an indie author, then you need to either have read something by them before that you liked, or you know somebody who has read this book specifically and recommended it. Oh, that's a good point, and so that is what we've done, and so a lot was riding on you, thank you. I was like my friend, emily, who co-hosts the podcast with me, really likes this book, and then people were like oh, emily likes it. Okay, that's very stressful to me.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, emily likes it, okay, that's very stressful to me.
Speaker 2:I was like well you know I don't always like the things that other people like. Okay, Right.
Speaker 1:I was like I mean, yeah, maybe like I don't know, I haven't read it, so but it was good and I liked it and I'd stand by it.
Speaker 2:I really did think you would like it when I was reading it, so I'm glad I was right about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, great times. I'm going to keep reading Christmas romances until the end of the year, which is when you're listening to this, so hopefully I'll read something besides that to have to recommend Also, I'm so excited for next year. Pretty soon, onyx Storm comes out.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're going to be so blessed with a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot coming out next year, but I'm glad that there's stuff coming out in January too, because that's just exciting. So we can't wait 2025.
Speaker 1:Let's just read yeah, and I think we're going to do if you don't have StoryGraph, then get StoryGraph. And because I think we're going to do a buddy read, I do buddy reads for On some like releases next year, like Onyx Storm and like maybe the new Emily Henry and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so join us, friend us, let's see our what's your? What's your username on StoryGraph? Mine is EmilyMartin210. And Fabigan, so friend us and we can see what each other's reading.
Speaker 1:All right, bye. Happy New Year see what he's really breathing.
Speaker 2:All right, all right, bye. Happy new year you.