The Readirect Podcast
Shifting the conversation back to books. Hosted by Abigail Freshley and Emily Rojas.
The Readirect Podcast
Normal People by Sally Rooney
We're seven years late to reading Sally Rooney's Normal People, a time capsule that takes us back to the 2010s and explores the complex relationship between two Irish teenagers as they navigate high school, college, and early adulthood.
If you've been enjoying the podcast, we would humbly ask that you support us in a few very simple ways. Leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Instagram and Bluesky at @readirectpodcast, and share our show with a friend.
Tune in for our next episode which will cover Sunrise on the Reaping.
Recent Reads:
Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. My name is Abigail Freshley and I'm Emily Rojas.
Speaker 2:The Redirect Podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes show up in real lived experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode, we are seven years late. Reading Normal People by Sally Rooney.
Speaker 2:But first, if you've been enjoying the podcast, we would humbly ask that you support us in a few very simple ways. First, you can leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know that you love the show.
Speaker 1:We'd also love for you to follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky at Redirect Podcast. And finally, if you really really like the show, we'd love for you to share it with a friend. Sharing our show with a friend is by far the best way to help us grow our community of book-loving nerds.
Speaker 2:And what a great community it is. What a great community.
Speaker 1:It really is, I feel like book community exists in person and online. Yeah, and part of the online book community and the mentally ill TikTok edit community is what brought us here, to this place that we are today.
Speaker 2:Of which we are both a part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you can do a cool editing thing, you should do like the intro to Emotional Emotion Sickness by Phoebe Bridgers Say less, because this is like I have like a pavlovian response now. When I hear that song, yeah, I think of normal people. Yeah, and when I think of normal people, I hear that song, yes, because that is like the song you're looking really well. Yeah, classic me, classic me. Go to college again, oh pretty whatever. I can't really do an Irish accent.
Speaker 2:You look really well. Yeah, I have that burned into my mind. When I read it in the book, I was like oh my god, there it is. You look really well. I can hear Paul Maskell's voice in my head. Yeah, so I mean what?
Speaker 1:perfect casting, what perfect casting. So basically we were like, okay, should we read Normal People? Because we hadn't read it. I think back during the Pandy is when the show came out. It did, it came out in 2020. And I was like way too depressed to watch it.
Speaker 2:when it came out that wasn't happening.
Speaker 1:My mental health was extremely fragile, as was most of ours, and we all cope with that in different ways, but I just kept putting it off because I was like this sounds really depressing.
Speaker 2:This sounds really depressing. And now here I am.
Speaker 1:Second Trump administration.
Speaker 2:Might as well. Just lean into the depression. That's what I've been doing. Yeah, I still haven't finished Station Eleven, because it was too depressing to watch during the pandemic. I really need to circle back. I watched most of it, but I can't take this right now.
Speaker 1:So I feel the same way about normal people.
Speaker 2:But now I read it and we're here to talk about it.
Speaker 1:So I'm so excited. You and I have talked about this. 0%. I know.
Speaker 2:I had three different text messages at different points Loaded yeah and I was like no backspace to save it for the pod. So I'm really ready.
Speaker 1:I didn't even check to see how you rated it on StoryGraph.
Speaker 2:Oh, I did see how you rated it.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, that's not a surprise for you then, but how did you rate it?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, okay, I gave it a placeholder four stars I think it probably is higher than that, but I felt like I needed to talk about it with someone because, honestly, like I really enjoyed the experience of reading the book. I love like I have no notes but I also hated Connell so much at so many points and, honestly, I didn't like Marianne as well at certain points and I liked them at other points. Like you know, I went back and forth with both of them but I just felt like that was clouding my judgment where I'm like, oh, these people are kind of insufferable, but I also understand what they're going through. So I put it at four, but I was like you know, I think this could be higher. It might change, but I just put something there for the time being to be like, okay, yeah, but I really liked it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's unfair because I think, honestly, the point of the book is that these people are insufferable.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they are normal people, right, right, like. This is what people are like. Yeah, totally, totally, they like people are like them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They don't know how to talk about their feelings. Yes, they are traumatized, yeah, and they're just trying to like mash their trauma together in a way that makes sense and fits Totally. And it's frustrating, yeah, um, so like yeah, no, I totally understand that. I think for me, connell did annoy me at times, but actually I think I was. I had a harder time with Marianne. That so interesting. I think I really related to Connell more yeah, um see that. So I don't know, did you feel like you related to Marianne more?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, um, so like Marianne to me was like I don't think I am like Marianne, but I think there is a part of me that would, if I encountered a person who was treating me like Connell and I loved them, I would act like her, like I think I've been fortunate that the one person I've been in love with like in my life is very kind to me.
Speaker 2:But I think had he been like a jerk, I would have been like, yeah, uh, sure, walk all over me, I don't care, because I don't want to lose you. And so I I see like a lot of myself probably in her, more so than connell, of like yeah, I would probably just take that. You know, I'm glad I haven't had to, but like I would. So, yeah, I think I related to her a little bit more than connell, which is probably part of the point, but there's also parts, especially towards the end. Um, it kind of gets into like connell's mental health a little bit more and I felt he became like more relatable at that point, you know. So it wasn't like 100 wash on him, um, yeah, but I think that's part of it. Like whoever you probably relate to more, you probably think the other person is more insufferable.
Speaker 1:I don't know I just like I got it, like yeah. So, backing up, I mean, this is, first of all, it was a time capsule, because this is set in the 2010s. Like they in canon, they're like a couple years older than us yeah um, but like this was the time, like they were in high school. We were in high school, like we would have been their peers. They were in college, we were in college, and so that was a just a time capsule yeah, for sure I mean they're in Ireland, so totally different culture than the United States.
Speaker 1:But it took me back to simpler times.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like even in the sense that, like Marianne is like really interested, they're both really interested in politics, yeah, and just thinking about the state of the world at that time and like the things that they were the global events they were talking about, yeah, I was like like whoa huge flashback. Um. So the book starts and it's colin and marianne, or connell and marianne, when they are like seniors in high school, yeah, or whatever the f**k they do yeah, don't ask me about the uk education system.
Speaker 1:Don't ask me to explain what they're doing over there secondary or shredder, I don't know what is it called. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't like. I've read, I've read every single heartstopper watch the show. And there's so many things I don't understand, like why? What are you talking about?
Speaker 1:so no, it's like it's like this is like understanding the British, like public school system is to me like the same thing, as like whenever my husband asked me to watch Lord of the Rings. I watch it, I'm engaged in it and I understand it. In that literal moment, yeah, and then another second passes and it slides off my smooth brain yeah like water off of a duck and I like, I can.
Speaker 1:I know every lyric and to every taylor swift song ever written. Yeah, and I know the lore of all of her back catalog yeah and I could reference extremely niche tumblr posts from like 2010 that have to do with, like, certain phraseology and the bridges of her song. Sure, but my brain will not accept the lord of the rings and it will not accept the british, the british public school system. No, not at all. Sorry, everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah there's a point at the end of, uh, that section, when they're in high school, where marianne just like doesn't go to school for like three months and somehow that's fine.
Speaker 1:Oh, she'll graduate, she doesn't really need to go. I'm like huh, what are you guys talking about? What are you guys doing over there? I was going to say like, hey, if you're listening and you understand it, explain it to me. But honestly don't even waste your time.
Speaker 2:I don't care. Yeah, care, yeah, anyway. So they're in their last year, they're about to go to university yeah, and so marianne is kind of like a social pariah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's weird and she doesn't really feel like she fits in. I think this is like. This is part of the reason she annoyed me at first, because I was like just shut up, yeah, yeah, like you fit in like, you're just a person like I get it. People were mean to her and they bullied her. Yeah, but a lot of that was because she was like I just don't feel like my life has begun and like you know, whatever it's giving you.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I think I have that. That was my first. Uh, I have my book tabbed for references. That was my first thing. Marianne had the sense that her real life was happening somewhere very far away, happening without her, and she didn't know she would ever find out where it was and become a part of it.
Speaker 1:I thought that was really relatable grow up, just kidding no, I love you and I get it and I, yeah, and I I actually see like because I love you. I understand marianne a little bit, but I was just like OK.
Speaker 2:No, I get that. It is a little bit insufferable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So so she's like that, but and Connell is like part of the popular crowd, but his mom was a teen mom. She's young and she works. He calls her Lorraine. She works for Marianne's family cleaning their house, yeah, and so he's connected to Marianne. They develop feelings for one another and like they connect in a way that Marianne doesn't typically connect with people and he's able to connect with her and be real with her. Yeah, in a way that doesn't feel like he can truly access with, like his friends or other peers at a school right, but he doesn't want to live that out loud yeah because he's worried about what will happen if people know that he's with marianne, which obviously sucks yeah, that was tough, it was really tough.
Speaker 2:It set me off on a wrong foot with him, but I do also like kind of get it like when you're in high school those the way people perceive you feel so consequential and it feels like Marianne is it's set. There's such an interesting dynamic between them because Marianne has no friends. She's annoying right Like no one likes her, but she like knows who she is in a way. And Connell, like, is accepted and has a lot of friends and is like popular quote unquote, but also like has no idea who she is, in a way. And connell, like, is accepted and has a lot of friends and is like popular quote-unquote, but also like has no idea who he is. And so that dynamic was really interesting to me, especially at the beginning, because it's like, yeah, you know he's like he has no idea who he is completely and she's pretty like sure of who she is and yet like no one likes her.
Speaker 2:So it's just this weird, you know relationship between them of how they both like balance it. Um, and I think there's one part where, like in the very beginning, where marion's like I would never pretend not to know you if I saw you in public and he's like really that's weird, like he doesn't even understand that, because to him it's like well, I don't know, like this is weird. This thing between us is weird, like why wouldn't you? Um, given that I don't know.
Speaker 1:So I thought that was really interesting yeah, I mean it's evident, like throughout the book he becomes more self-aware, yeah, about his own mental health issues and his um and his anxiety, um. That he feels like puts a wall between him and the rest of the world. He doesn't know how to be a quote normal person. Yeah, you know he doesn't know how to just interact and there's not ease to it, and I think I actually related to that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He was obviously an idiot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In high school.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Also, she was an idiot for, like, knowing who she is, but allowing him to treat her like that yeah. To me they were just like idiotic high school students yeah, that also are like encountering something real for the first time in their life.
Speaker 1:They're encountering what it means to like be seen truly by someone else and be like accepted for who you are. Yeah, and that's like extremely overwhelming. Yeah, no, totally, when you're that age Like that's crazy. And then they go to college, well, no, so their senior year ends and he didn't ask her to go to the Debs with him which is like Irish prom essentially yeah. Another thing I don't understand and well don't desire to Don't tell me yeah.
Speaker 1:Again, smooth brain when it comes to British stuff, but like he doesn't ask her to go to the Debs and it's like she feels rejected even though she's been playing. I'm a cool girl and I don't need you to like me and like it's okay if you want to be with other people, because I just like I'm accepted by you and whatever. Like it still hurts her. Yeah, and his mom, lorraine of GOAT is like I love her. You are a piece of shit. Yeah, Like I'm embarrassed that you're my son.
Speaker 1:I'm ashamed of you Like this is dumb, act right, and so Marianne stops talking to him, but they both end up at Trinity College in Dublin.
Speaker 2:And he really ends up there because of her, which I think is so interesting too, how his life is like incredibly influenced by her, through like time and time again. This is just the first example, I think, but, um, despite him being like in this position of like social power over her at the beginning, I feel like he ends up being the one whose life trajectory is a little bit more bent by her.
Speaker 1:Um, because he has lots of a sense of who he is he's like okay, sure you're telling me I should go to trinity.
Speaker 2:I guess I'll say I want to go to trinity, which again I don't understand how you guys are doing these like college applications over there um, they're.
Speaker 1:They're like, it's like ranked choice college applications. They're like what are you going to put as your first choice? Huh, what do you mean? What are you talking about? Yeah, so another interesting like deal about this whole book is that the very beginning, he does have more social capital than her. Yeah, but marianne has more lasting capital than he does, because she literally has more capital, because they her family is very rich. Yeah, and one thing I've really absorbed about um british and irish society is like classism yeah pretty huge, so like there is a lot of classism.
Speaker 1:And so when they go to trinity, like it's easy for her to fit in with all of these like high-minded, rich, academic, right people. And he is floundering, yes, and it's like all of a sudden he goes from being a big fish in a small pond to small fish. Yeah, he like has no friends. Yeah, and he doesn't know how to make them either. Yeah, and and that feels scary to him, and all of a sudden their relationship is flipped on its head because they have the famous scene there's like emotional motion sickness.
Speaker 2:You look really well I was so surprised by the way, by that scene I, from the edits I had seen, I assumed that would come like at the very end of the book.
Speaker 2:You know, like oh really I thought in my mind they would like have this experience, and then maybe years pass and they're like with other people, and then they would see each other and he would say that, um, that's obviously not what happens at all, but um, that, that just like yeah, that kind of blew my mind because I was like, oh, I thought that was like the very last you know part of the story, but it's not at all yeah it's kind of pretty early on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they pick their relationship back up. Yeah, but it's more serious now in college, like, yeah, like they're really because you know they're not like he's not ashamed to be with her Right, and she has more like autonomy and power in the relationship. But then it kind of falls apart at the end of their freshman year. Yeah, because of a horrible miscommunication. Yeah, he was like I guess I need to go home because I don't have any money. But he didn't want to, like straight up ask her if he could move in with her. Yeah, and she thought he was breaking up with her when he said that, yes, that actually was really sad to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure you could relate to that too. He was like. He was like this yeah, that's the part that pissed me off, because I was just like, just I don't understand. Yeah, I actually don't understand, not saying what you mean yeah genuinely, but like he was, like I guess you'll be wanting to see other people. Yeah, because he was so insecure yes yes, he was so insecure.
Speaker 1:Yes, about not of like wanting to ask if he could stay with her for the summer, right, but he wouldn't. He was waiting for her to ask him if he wanted to do that, which is an insane thing to expect someone to do yeah and then he's like well, I guess you'll want to see other people.
Speaker 2:And she's like okay, wait, you're breaking up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he was like not trying to do that at all and then they like mentioned this to their friends and it's even referenced in the book that the friends are like wait, explain that again. What are you talking about? Because I don't think that that's what happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, like I think you guys are delulu straight up so, then, that's what's on the course of college, of like seeing other people and then seeing each other, and like reconnecting, and on their journeys of learning more about themselves and digging into their own trauma yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's pretty like back and forth between them. There's a lot of like they're just hooking up and then they're not talking, and then they have different relationships that they're in and then they're single again. Or, like you know, one of them's dating someone and then they're in bed together.
Speaker 1:So it just yeah, it was like extremely emotionally intimate that was like. The thing that really stood out to me about this book is how intimate their relationship is yes, like the emails, seeing other people oh, the emails the emails is crazy.
Speaker 2:Like emails is a time capsule thing too, by the way, like I feel like people don't email anymore, you know but like panel went to a web cafe.
Speaker 1:Yes, to send an email like I love it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's like he especially him, I think like can only be emotion, emotionally vulnerable, with, like this one person and he like continuously uses her for that purpose. Um, like, whether they're physically together or not, or he's dating other people or not, like she still seems to be the one person that he can like share his private thoughts with, or like he writes these beautiful things to her. But then at a certain point, like later on, he gets a story published in, I guess, like their college, some kind of like publication or whatever, and he's like no, no, no, you can't like put my name on that. He's like no, no, no, you can't like put my name on that. Like, actually, you have to just put it under a pen name. You know what I mean. And so it's like, even with his writing, he can't publicly share that, but he can share that with her with like no real feeling of like shame, you know it's like they're, they have this extreme intimacy.
Speaker 1:That's like even when they're both seeing other people, like right, they are always aware of each other's presence in a room. Yeah, they're always, and they always say, like, it doesn't feel like this with other people like they said that. They say that like all the time like it doesn't feel and I'm like I like it's. Hey guys, that was just yeah, hey, like I think that was one of the really great accomplishments of the writing is that like that felt genuinely yes yes, it did like.
Speaker 1:I felt like this is really intimate between you guys and none of it is from first person, it's all third person point of view. Yes, like, which is amazing, and there's time jumps everywhere, like every chapter is like six months later seven months later like, yeah, there's, there's this one.
Speaker 2:I want to read this um yes in a series of emails they exchanged recently about their own friendship, marianne expressed her feelings about there's this one. I want to read this yes, his sense of rooting for her and suffering with her when she suffers. His ability to perceive and sympathize with her motivations. Marion thought this had something to do with gender roles. I think I just like you a lot as a person. He replied defensively. That's actually very sweet.
Speaker 1:She wrote back like huh, yeah, or like he'll randomly be like you know, I love you, yeah, and it's like, yeah, you guys love each other, yeah. And then they're like oh, she's like um, he's like I feel lonely except when I'm, when I'm with you and he's like did you feel lonely with I don't know one of his girlfriends?
Speaker 1:yeah, he was like sometimes yeah like, but they have this, I think, for most of the book. Yeah, they're never on the same page, yeah. Or like they're never on the same level. They're never on a level playing field. Yeah. Or like they're never on the same level. They're never on a level playing field. Yeah, one of them has more like advantage than the other. Yeah, or one of them is dealing with a crisis and the other one isn't. And, like you've mentioned a really interesting point that, like for most of the story, connell is using Marianne as somebody to like be vulnerable with, but without really like having a payoff for her. Yeah, until like the last third of the book. Yeah, where he like really helps her get out of a series of abusive situations with a part like with a partner and then with her family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which was tough, yeah. So I think like yeah, you summed it up Like he, I think they both get stuff from each other. I don't think she it's completely one-sided. I think she does gain a lot from him and like I think she like sort of desperately loves him in a way that maybe he doesn't always understand, or like you know, um, I don't know, I feel like they're right. They're just both misunderstanding each other the whole time too, because I remember one scene where, like at the towards the beginning, where she's like so do you have a crush on anyone at school? And he's like what are you talking about? Like they're sleeping together, and she's like do you like anybody?
Speaker 1:and it's like he's literally like inside of her yeah he's like do you have a crush on anyone? And he's like but like, okay, that is me like married, like every single night, my husband gives me a foot massage and I'm like, hey, do you still think I'm pretty? Yes, no, that's why I think it's so relatable about her. I do get it.
Speaker 2:I do get it Because it's like there is a part of me and maybe a part of a lot of people, and this is why Marianne is a relatable character in some ways, and even Connell, like I think there's a part of everyone that, like, secretly believes themselves to be unlovable or unlikable in some fundamental ways, and the fact that someone would like, choose to like, like be around you is like, oh, really me, you know what I mean. Like even. Obviously I hope that's not like the main thing you're thinking in your mind, but I feel like everyone has those moments where you're like this person seems too good for me or like I don't know, I can't believe you would actually want to spend time with me. So, like it is relatable, but it is also crazy when you see it written out because you're like duh, like he likes you and she's like can't even get that through her skull, you know, um, I mean yeah, but to be fair, like he won't like publicly in the beginning of the book.
Speaker 2:So I guess, of course, why wouldn't you ask that question?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean I think towards the end of the book it does flip and Connell is finally investing in Marianne.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because he feels like he has the skills and the confidence to do that now. Yeah, and she is kind of now finally, really like she at the beginning of the book. He was dealing with his issues. Yeah, his social anxiety, his stress, his fear, his insecurity. Then he kind of starts working through that. But the beginning of the book she's just kind of shoving all of that back or shoving all of that down. And then the second end, it's like this starts her trauma and her abuse from her dad and from her brother and like the lack of love she experiences from her mother.
Speaker 1:yeah, start expressing themselves like they can't be held back anymore and they're coming out in her interpersonal relationships and even it's driving a wedge between she and connell yeah and causing her to like not want to be fully open and available to him yeah, you know she's wanting to like protect, like put something physically in between her and the intimacy yeah, which makes complete sense yeah, and then at the end like so yeah, so then we can.
Speaker 1:I guess we can get to the end yeah, decision, the other discussion questions we want to hit, yeah, any other themes like at the end he gets accepted. It's kind of blurry whether or not they're together or not.
Speaker 2:They're like they're more together than not together yeah, I think they are together, but like they're yeah, they are. They're together like more publicly than they've ever been.
Speaker 1:Yeah he gets accepted to an mfa program in new york. I do understand MFA programs.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I understand New York, and I understand New York, and she's like well, he's like I'm not gonna go, yeah you know I can't. I'll be a year away from you like whatever, and she's like go. Yeah, like you need to go. Can you read the last bit of the book?
Speaker 2:yeah of course, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, you should go. She says to new york. I mean you should accept the offer, you should go. He says nothing. She looks up, the wall behind him is yellow like a slab of butter. No, he says I'm sure you could get funding. Why are you saying this? I thought you wanted to stay here. Next year I can stay and you can go. She says it's just a year. I think you should do it. He makes a strange, confused noise, almost like a laugh. He touches his neck. She puts the towel down and starts brushing the knots out of her hair slowly. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2:He says I'm not going to New York without you. I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for you. It's true. She thinks he wouldn't be. He would be somewhere else, entirely, living a different kind of life. He would be different, with women even, and his aspirations for love would be different. And Marianne herself? She would be another person completely. Would she ever have been happy? And what kind of happiness might it have been? All these years they've been like two little plants sharing the same pot of soil, growing around one another, contorting to make room, taking certain unlikely positions. But in the end she has done something for him. She's made a new life possible and she can always feel good about that. I'd miss you too much, he says. I'd be sick, honestly, at first, but it would get better.
Speaker 2:They sit in silence now, marianne, moving the brush methodically through her hair, feeling for knots and and slowly patiently untangling them. There's no point of being impatient anymore. You know, I love you, says connell. I'm never going to feel the same way for someone else. She nods. Okay, he's telling the truth. To be honest, I don't know what to do. He says say you want me to stay and I will. She closes her eyes. He probably won't come back, she thinks, or he will differently. What they have now they can never have back again. But for her the pain of loneliness will be nothing to the pain she used to feel of being unworthy. He brought her goodness like a gift and now it belongs to her. Meanwhile his life opens out before him in all directions at once. They've done a lot of good for each other, really, she thinks. Really people can really change one another. You should go, she says I'll always be here. You know that. All right, I'm gonna change my rating to five stars after I read that out loud you know what?
Speaker 1:this is? A five-star book, so I know. So the reason I wanted you to read that is because sally rooney has said on record that she purposefully left the end of the book open ended. Sure for the reader's interpretation. So what is your?
Speaker 2:interpretation. My interpretation is like it's like do they end up?
Speaker 1:together or not?
Speaker 2:I think they don't. I think they don't because they still, in that scene, have not learned, like she just needs to say I want you to stay. And he just needs to say I don't want to go, like I can feel it in my and reading of the book. Obviously, other people might read this differently he doesn't want to go and she don't want to go. I can feel it in my reading of the book. Obviously other people might read this differently he doesn't want to go and she doesn't want him to leave.
Speaker 2:But neither of them still can really say that he's even trying I love you, I don't want to go without you. Or he should say come with me, I don't know. It feels like they're still not at a point where they can be like fully emotionally vulnerable with each other, and so I think he does go and I think maybe they find their way back to each other. But I feel like the whole point is like, after all, this time they're still in the same place they started, where they can't just like be honest with each other about how they're feeling oh damn okay, I interpreted it totally different.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, tell me, tell me. So I, my interpretation is that they finally, well, at least, okay, at least Marianne has finally learned how to not be codependent. Sure, I get that.
Speaker 1:And like and there's enough of a foundation here where they're like they have had a lot of codependence, sure, and she you know they use like the metaphor of the plants growing in different pots because they've now grown up away from that and that he'll go. And then she's saying I'll be back here, like, like, don't worry about it, like I'll be here and like that's funny, like I'm, I'm here for you, yeah and like I'm, it's fine, like we're good enough that, like a year of you going to New York is nothing.
Speaker 1:Like you'll find your way back to me.
Speaker 2:I read that as, like you know, I'll always be here because I'm still letting you like to walk all over me. Like you could go, come back differently, find someone else over there, leave me behind.
Speaker 1:And I'm still going to be here when you come back wow, see, like the thing I'm thinking is like right before the part where you read Connell is has moved. They're in Dublin, right, I think?
Speaker 1:together like yeah he's come back to because she took a little bit of a break from school because she was dealing with stuff, yeah, and so she's come back. She's finishing her time at Trinity and he's basically living there to be with her. So he has done a selfless act for her and he is now like he's positioned his life around her, and so now she's doing the same thing back, where she's saying like, now you get the chance to be selfish. And this isn't like she's saying I think you should go, I think that you should do this, like I'll still be here. And he's like well, I think you should go, I think that you should do this, like I'll still be here. And he's like, well, I'd miss you too much. She's like, yeah, you would at first, but it would get better. Like he's being honest and like he's earlier whenever he was going to leave whenever they like fake, like they accidentally broke up at the end of their freshman year.
Speaker 1:He was like well, he didn't say like I'm gonna miss you or whatever, like it, just he's like I guess you'll want to see other people, sure but now he's like graduated to the place where he can be like I would miss you too much, it'd be sick. Yeah, he's like being honest about his feelings for yeah, no, totally I do.
Speaker 2:And she's saying like I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm turning back towards you and saying, like now you get a chance to prioritize something about yourself because you've helped me escape these like abusive relationships. You've protected me when my friends left me, after I left my like my stupid asshole boyfriend, like you were on my side. So I mean, I think it could be interpreted either. Oh yeah totally.
Speaker 2:I don't think either is wrong. I guess I just see it more of like he doesn't actually want to go to new york, or he would have told her, and the whole point is like now she's trying to like impose that on him because she thinks she's doing the right thing and instead of just being able to be like actually I don't want to be away from you for a year, like they're just going to keep doing the same, like dance around each other.
Speaker 1:That was my interpretation see, I think that he does want to go to new york, or he would never would have applied, and so that's true, I guess. I think that he does want to go and he and she's giving him a the permission to do it.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's that makes sense but I, I also think like I just I I used to and I still kind of do like, but I used to hate this more. I used to hate the lack of certainty more, but I think, uh, that's what gets to like the title of the book because, like these are just normal people, yeah, and this is like the normal stuff that, like people who have successful or unsuccessful relationships, like these would be normal mundane hurdles that they have to figure out like there's nothing unique about their story no, not at all yeah they're like yes, they are extraordinarily normal yeah, what I think is interesting too is like but neither one of them feels that's what I
Speaker 2:was gonna say like they both are always like I'm so not like normal people.
Speaker 2:Like they say that multiple times through the book and it's like, actually, what I think is I.
Speaker 2:What I was thinking of when I was reading this book too, was, like you really don't get this kind of insight into what other people's relationships are like, like, especially romantic relationships.
Speaker 2:People tend to be very private about that, and so you, I think it is very normal for people to wonder, like is this normal? Like is the way I relate to this other person normal? It's like you, you know, because I just think that's something that like people aren't honest about and so they're here thinking, god, this is like so hard, but every one of their other friends is probably like having these similar interactions or like maybe not to this scale or whatever, but like everyone's feeling these same kind of things of like shame and um, you know, anger and frustration and joy and like intimacy and vulnerability, like all those things are just so normal and everyone's feeling the same things. But the whole time they're like I'm just so weird, but it's like because you just don't talk about it, you know, and you don't know what other people are going through yeah, um 100, like you feel like your life is so extraordinary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but it's not. Yeah, so yeah. Another thing that's like lighter that I'd like to point out about this book yeah, I just Googled, okay, I Googled. What US state is closest in size to Ireland. South Carolina is the closest in size to Ireland, okay, okay, and I was thinking about like they make Caracly sound so freaking far away from Dublin.
Speaker 2:That's these freaking Europeans here like this.
Speaker 1:And like it's like a world apart. Yeah, like relax the culture is. So I'm like, yeah, maybe, but also like it feels like a commute.
Speaker 2:Yeah To me, yeah, yeah, like us in america, we're built different. You know, we we will drive hours and that's like yeah, that's like late work, like work late work, I'll drive like I would drive up to four hours for a day trip like easily. You know not stay the night, yeah, yeah so you guys need to bulk up a little bit, um, but that's fascinating, okay. Something else I want to talk about is the lack of quotation marks. How did you feel about that?
Speaker 1:um, I mean at first. Yeah, so you started. The one thing we talked about about this book before recording this podcast was that you texted me and you're like, oh my god there's no quotation yeah, I got over it very quickly me too and actually really liked it.
Speaker 2:At first I thought it was like really pretentious and I was like, oh, I'm not gonna like this lady because, like, why is she being so pretentious? Like, oh, I'm so different. I don't write with quotation marks, but I feel like for this book it does work. I guess this is like her thing, though she does this with everything. But um, for this book to me it worked because it was like you're so in their heads that even like the dialogue, you're not getting outside of each of their perspectives, like you're still in it, and so I think that was kind of interesting that it worked.
Speaker 1:You know, for me yeah, there was like no, it was all just like perfectly interwoven like his thoughts her thoughts.
Speaker 2:People like what they're saying, what they're not saying, yeah it just and it didn't.
Speaker 1:I didn't find it confusing not at all that was like the one fear. I'm sure that they did a lot of editing to make sure that it wasn't confusing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's got to be tough to make that choice. Um to definitely difficult to follow. Also, I want to say I have started the tv series. Have you watched any of them?
Speaker 1:yes, I I like back in 2020.
Speaker 2:I watched the first episode and then I tried watching the first episode again and I was like too dark.
Speaker 1:But, um, I think, yeah, now, now I'll start. I mean, I do think I have, look, I watched a lot of edits, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, you look really well.
Speaker 1:You look really well.
Speaker 2:Um, okay, because I just want to say I watched the first four episodes and I, okay, you know the TikTok sound that's like from the Lego movie when she's like blah, blah, blah, backstory. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That to me is like book Connell is like the first part where she's like saying about the craggle or whatever, and then TV show Connell is like the blah god, paul meskel, oh my god, oh, my days oh my days. I found him to be a lot more likable in the tv show.
Speaker 1:So far but it's a very good adaptation, like oh, oh, oh, I mean the biggest freaking part of this whole thing, yeah. So like, okay, moving on from book to tv, yeah, the whole thing. Like the the paul mezcal daisy, edgar jones phoebe bridgers, I'm familiar triumvirate yeah, the yearning, like I, the yearning in the show I is that's what I want to say to me, my, I was thinking about this when watching it.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing in a book, a tv show, a movie, a fan fiction, an edit, is when there's a romantic pairing and one of them is just like staring at the other one from across the room, like that to me is like crack, just give it to me. And paul mezcal is like the human embodiment of that person, who's just staring at you from across the room, and so I think you couldn't have cast a better person to be in this adaptation, because that's so connell, like he won't talk to her in public, but he will be staring at her all the time. Um, so, yeah, well done. Whoever cast him for this, just well done. And I stand by and need him in an Emily Henry adaptation, like I need him to yearn more yeah.
Speaker 1:The one thing I think is a little less believable it's like Daisy Edgar Jones is so pretty Like yeah, you're going to tell me that she was like the ugly girl in high school. I do feel like they did a pretty good job, like Of like ugling like, of like ugling.
Speaker 2:Yes, because when I saw her in the first episode, I was like oh, wow, like that does not look.
Speaker 1:Like. That was like, um, when she was in uh, that where the crawdads sing, yeah, when she was like supposed to be like a swamp creature and she like had like clean, clean girl makeup or whatever. No, but I feel like they did enough of making her like I don't know, just like not hot, not ugly, but like not hot yeah, well, I mean because I don't think that she ever was really ugly, because another like sweet moment when is when connell was like oh right, after that you look really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's like classic me, go off to college to get pretty and he's like you were always pretty yeah, like stab me in the eye, yeah, uh, yeah, I'm like and then, oh, everyone's like always teasing him about how his type is like flat-chested skinny girls that look just like her like all through college or whatever, and it's like she kind of teases him about him that, about like that being his type or whatever he's like um yeah, so watch the tv show.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying another moment I always love, yeah, and like. This is just like the lizard brain, like part of me is, whenever it's like if you ever touch her again, I'll kill you. Yes, I, I was already excited for that part of the tv show.
Speaker 2:I haven't even gotten there yet, but yes, that part reading in the book, I was like, okay, all right, I was not familiar with your game, connell, I was not, I was not, I was not familiar with your game because it was so I I love that more like don't have someone, like don't have him like throw a punch.
Speaker 2:I like that he doesn't. He doesn't throw a punch, he doesn't like get violent, it's just chill, like if you ever touch her again, I will physically kill you. It's not a threat, it's just like a guarantee. So that's what I like.
Speaker 1:Like don't do it, and I'm being like totally serious and he's like do you understand me? Like I need to hear you say that you understand. He says like tell me you understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I need to get to that part. Fast forward, fast forward. I was not familiar with your game. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you think you're going to read future like other Sally Rooney books?
Speaker 2:I don't know. That's a really good question, I think. I don't know. I really like this one, but I'm like, would I like the rest of them? The same? I don't know. What do you think? Will you read anymore? I think yeah, maybe, yeah like I wouldn't say no.
Speaker 1:I like books that are set in Ireland. I think her books are set in Ireland yeah, I enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:I learned nothing, but I experienced a foreign culture and it was really fun, so yeah, I would read more by her but I do see how, like my understanding is a lot of like the criticism is. It's kind of just the same thing over and over. I could see how that could be true, um.
Speaker 1:I did see a meme before I wrote this book.
Speaker 2:That was like society if people in Sally Rooney books could communicate and it was like that same image that they use for like if society boomers could say chipotle, yes yes, uh, yeah um yeah, I think, um, it works because, like, they're really young, but I think if it was about older people, I would probably be even more frustrated by this book, because I'm so forgiving for 17. Yeah, because I'm like, I get it, you're just a baby and you're stupid and it's okay you don't know how to do stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, no excuse. If this was a 35 year old, I would have quit the book because, what do you mean? You don't know how to like talk about stuff like grow up, yeah, grow up, um yeah, so I'm not that worried about it yeah, like when they're younger.
Speaker 2:I feel what's what's influencing my interpretation of the ending of this book is I literally just read a fic where the like inciting incident was two people getting divorced because one of them like got a job opportunity somewhere else and the other one was like you have to take it, and it was like no, I don't want to take it. It was like no, I don't want to take it, but like then you know, like I don't want to hold you back, and so I feel like I'm interpreting it through that lens of like I don't think he really wanted to go to New York, but is it stupid?
Speaker 1:Is it just not that hard? Yeah, like I don't know. Just if you love somebody and you're committed to them, then that's more important. Like, if you think they should take the job, then guess what, you're moving with them.
Speaker 2:I'm simplifying this too much.
Speaker 1:No, you're not Like hey, why are you guys like straining so hard to figure this out?
Speaker 2:My worst thing, my least favorite thing, is when people are like well, sometimes love isn't enough. I think that's stupid. I think if you actually love someone enough, you would make the sacrifice, you would move. Then it's more important. Yeah, this is like you have one life. You know, I'm sorry, people's careers are important, whatever, but it's like there's nothing more important to me than the people you love, and if you're gonna like be in love with someone, I think you would just follow them. I are like one of you would compromise and then the next time like life is long the next time there's a decision to make, you get to pick what you want to do. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So I agree with you. It's not one-sided like, yeah, sometimes they do stuff for you too. I mean, maybe I'm saying this also as somebody who moved across the country for my partner.
Speaker 2:No, but I would do it too, and it's stupid, but it's just like I wouldn't be like, oh, better get divorced now, Cause I like my life here.
Speaker 1:No like hey, there's lots of jobs. This is the most important person in my life, exactly Like love is enough. Controversial opinion Uh, fight me. I mean. Yeah, I mean if I I'll say like if the person that I love did like a heinous crime, it wouldn't be enough. Like what are you talking?
Speaker 2:about though I'm talking like okay, okay, okay, yeah, that wouldn't be enough. You took it too far.
Speaker 1:Like murder, though wait, you froze for a second when you were going. What?
Speaker 2:were you saying? I was just saying, oh, like I wasn't expecting that, like, yeah, you're right, that wouldn't be enough like, like, if, if there was, like you harmed an innocent person, yeah, okay murder what's the circumstances. That's what I'm saying Like a circumstantial. I couldn't forget that. Who did?
Speaker 1:you murder, yeah, and why it was self-defense, right. I could but like did you murder someone in cold blood?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know That'd be tough. I'll write you in jail, but I'm going to turn you in you know, I guess like, yeah, crimes against defenseless people. Yeah, I know For sure, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, like, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, love is enough. Like the MFA program will still be there, he could wait for her to be able to move. Or like she could just say like I want to date you and let's be in a long-distance relationship for a year and I'll come visit you. Like just talk about your shit, get over it and love each other. It's not that hard. That's my ending opinion.
Speaker 1:Yes, Just like, yeah, just get over it, Y'all are fine.
Speaker 2:It. Get over it. Y'all are fine. It's a year. At the same time, don't get over it, because I love an exes to lovers story so you can give me that in the sequel, that you guys can just break up and then find your way back to each other no, I think that they will separate for a while, yeah, and I think that they get back together.
Speaker 1:That's my interpretation.
Speaker 2:I hope yeah I think that they're still not there yet, but maybe one day they could find their way back to each other, and I hope they do what I think I am solid on is there's no way that these two people don't find their way back to each other.
Speaker 1:Interesting they are. I don't know how you go from the connection that they have and the intimacy that they have to a relationship with someone else I think people do that all the time, though I really do.
Speaker 2:that's my sneaking suspicion. I think probably people do that all the time, though I really do. That's my sneaking suspicion. I think probably people do that all the time. Shout out hey, dm us if you're out there and you had a really strong connection.
Speaker 1:And then you later settled for some photos. But don't do it unless you're going to provide photos.
Speaker 2:Yes, and like first names, last names.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like if you're going to give us like, like, if you're gonna give us gossip, yeah, then you need to give us gossip and we'll keep it private between the two of us. Yeah, but I don't want any kind of cryptic I just think.
Speaker 2:I just think actually, like a lot of people are in like mediocre relationships or marriages, you know, don't you feel that way? Like people are always like, oh, my wife is so annoying, like okay, I think that maybe you settled for that person and maybe there was someone else you could have been happier with. Yeah, like I'm sorry, I just don't think you seem as happy as I am sorry oh, it's not fun for you.
Speaker 1:That's not the title of my life, okay, honestly let's tell that to connell and marianne. They could have some more fun too, like they are always so sad and like serious like oh my god, oh my god, are they the people, um, in that vine that are like a taco bell and they're like hugging? But actually isn't that a guy in a mannequin? I think so. Isn't that the whole thing?
Speaker 2:it's like a it's like a performance, art or something yeah, yes no, but I know exactly what you mean. That's connell and marianne they're all except not in public because like he would never dare touch her in public.
Speaker 1:So are they like the couple standing in front of you in line at six flags?
Speaker 2:yes, yes like, hey like have fun, you guys Just lighten up, lighten up, we're going on the Tower of Terror.
Speaker 1:We're going on acrophobia.
Speaker 2:Come on, let's lighten up a little bit Lighten up, that's what I have to say. Yeah, okay, next, wow, this is a good book Would you recommend? It. Obviously, you both rated it five stars. Now that I changed my, rating.
Speaker 1:I would recommend it to the right person. Yes, like I guess five stars like you would think that's a universal recommendation there are. I don't like I think some people think that Like, yeah, I, this is not a universal recommendation for me.
Speaker 2:No, I would not recommend this to everyone.
Speaker 1:But I would recommend this to people who I think their tastes generally align with mine.
Speaker 2:I was going to say this felt like as soon as I started reading it I was like I think I'm going to like this, because this just feels like a book, I would like.
Speaker 1:So I think it's like it's a similar vibe to One Day.
Speaker 2:I was going to say yes, and the intimacy factor, the intimacy between the characters, the whole thing is like this this is what makes me mad sometimes about, honestly, a lot of like romantic. I wouldn't say this is a romance book, obviously, but like books about romantic relationships, like the whole point of One Day is you actually could get hit by a bus tomorrow. And it makes me mad sometimes because I'm like you guys just need to get it together once again, get it together because Marianne could get hit by a bus tomorrow. And then you'd be like, wow, that sucks. I wasted so many years with this person.
Speaker 1:I had a profound connection with, not just like being honest about how I felt, so you know, in the words of the of our favorite, one of our favorite bands if you can give yourself to someone, then you should you should do it.
Speaker 2:That is my life motto. Yeah, like yeah, not, this is a life advice podcast, but like, like I just think, if you have the opportunity and you have a connection like this, stop overthinking it so much. If you guys are like hey, I've never felt lonely with you and I've never had this kind of connection to anyone in my life and I can tell you things I can never tell anyone else, and just like, don't think about it so much. Just you know, live your life like right like you're.
Speaker 1:That's probably like I think that books and movies and tv in general have convinced us that there's got to be some other perfect element there's got to be something else there, actually like if you found something that truly makes you happy, yeah, like, and you're with someone who truly makes you happy and you have a great connection, but it's still hard sometimes. That is actually probably the best you're going to get.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just do it Full, send it.
Speaker 1:There's probably not something better out there. Yeah, totally okay anyways all right um. What book have you read recently, besides normal people, okay?
Speaker 2:I have literally been only reading fan fiction lately, which is so bad so I'm gonna go into the archives. It's not bad, but I just I can't keep recommending fics on here, so I mean I could, but I should, but I sure aren't. So I will recommend. Would you rather have a romance, a four-star romance, or a four-star dystopian? I'll let you pick Romance. Okay. So I want to recommend Team Players by Deanna Gray. This is available on Kindle Unlimited and it's actually part of a duology, but I like this one better. It's the second book in the duology, but it's like one of those where the characters are just kind of like it's like a side character. I would say you don't even have to read the first one, but the first one's called Sunny Disposition, if you want to read that.
Speaker 2:This one, it takes place at a college. It is two hockey teams, the men's and the women's teams, and the two team captains. So it's the men's captain and the women's captain. Um, samson is the man and the girl is eridan. Adarin, adarin, adarin. Sorry, it's been a while since I read this. Um, anyways, they are like two polar opposites. Samson is like kind of a play boy, like one night stand, haver, you know no commitment and adarin is just getting out of like a really long relationship, I think, and she's like I am not, you know I'm not gonna sleep around and so they get into this bet with each other basically, where like um, samson's like I bet you can't like be a more of a playboy and like have a one night stand, and adarin's like I bet you can't not like sleep around and like just be like single or like commit to someone. Obviously you can see where this is going. So they're like teaching each other their ways. I love it. I think they're both like I'd like this because like they're both giving like older sibling vibes, like very like in control, but like then they have to give control up a little bit to each other.
Speaker 2:Um, I thought it was really fun. Like banter, I like. I like hockey romances. I'll say like I actually like it when there's like a lot of like the sport in the book. Me too. I like it when there's like play-by-plays and like exciting games. That's. This is not that they're like it's barely a b-plot, barely um. So if you don't like a lot of sports in your sports romance, I would say this is it, but it was really fun and they're just like a cute little couple. And again, it's on Kindle Unlimited so you can read it if you have that. But yeah, I really liked it. Very cute, very fun, love that yes.
Speaker 1:Speaking of college romances.
Speaker 2:Have you read deep end? No, I haven't got to yet. Okay, I said I have only read fan fiction for the past two weeks. I was not kidding and I'm getting out of it. I'm gonna read deep end next. Well, and normal people and I'm reading. Um, I'm in. I'm in the middle of too many books. It's a problem. So I just keep cycling through everything. So I just haven't finished it. But I'm also reading the Roommate Risk by Talia Hibbert right now which I'm really liking.
Speaker 2:But I'm not like even halfway done, so I feel like I can't recommend that.
Speaker 1:But I'm sure I will. I read that. I like it. Yeah, I'm sure I will Love her. Oh yeah, Maybe the best book boyfriend of all time.
Speaker 2:I am really liking him so far. So yeah, I'm really excited to read more about them. So yeah, I've been cycling through, but you know Okay.
Speaker 1:What have you read?
Speaker 2:recently.
Speaker 1:Well, I read Such a Fun Age by Kylie Reid. Yes, you've read this. Yes, did I talk about this on our last podcast? No, no, but we texted about it a little bit. Okay, yeah, I'm like remembering that we talked about it a little bit. Yeah, so I read that. This is like not a hot take. This is like a Reese's book club pick from like 2016 or whatever. Yeah, this was also a time capsule.
Speaker 1:It was a 2016 book, very, yeah. But for those who don't know, or you've just seen the flashy cover and wondered like, is this really good? It's a book about um, a young woman who's like in her mid-20s, feels like a little bit behind in life. She, um, she's a young black woman, her name is amira and she um picks up a part-time babysitting gig. Um, with a family who is new in town to philadelphia. Um, and the mom is like an early 30s, like very much white, feminist, like nasty woman kind of like. She's like volunteer, like she's, like you know, has her own like business. That's like about letter writing. It's like very, yes, much like girl boss type beat gas cake and gaslight, gaslight, gatekeep, girl boss like she is.
Speaker 1:I was imagining blake lively. Yes, like this, yeah this.
Speaker 1:Like beautiful pretty blonde woman like two young kids, and she hires amira to be her part-time babysitter and her name is Alix, like Alex but pronounced Alix, and, plot twist, her name was not always Alix and that comes up, but it's. The book begins with. Amira is asked during like a family crisis, that's like late at night I'm not on her usual hours uh, to pick up the kid and take her to like the grocery store or something, just like get her out of the house for a little while. And, um, she does, and she's at the grocery store and the police, the security, approach her because they think that she's kidnapped the child. Yeah, young black babysitter who wasn't necessarily dressed in babysitting clothes because she was in the middle of doing something else with a young white child. Yeah, late at night. Um, and this is a situation that like kicks off, the book brings in another character, who's her boyfriend, who's also white and complicated in other ways. It's a really interesting book about racial dynamics. Um, and it is like a car crash that you cannot look away from. It is so super cringy at moments. Yes, and but, like in the.
Speaker 1:But you know kylie reed, the author. She has a leaks his number. She has amira's number. She has Amira's number. She has the I forget the name of the boyfriend. Now she has his number. Like she understands, like she expertly discusses all of these different dynamics that are going on, the motivations of the different characters, their past, present and potentially future. And it was really good, yeah, and I enjoyed it. I couldn't stop reading it, even though there was moments where I was like I literally had to put yes, look down for a second, because I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no, oh no, um, yeah, yeah, but ultimately it will really, uh, it's a good book for white people to read.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like every person in this book is like almost could so easily be like a caricature of a person, of a real person, but like they are all still feel like extremely real, like it's like, oh yeah, I could definitely know that person, uh, but it's still like so absurd. But it's like, yeah, that's just how people are. You know some type of people. So, yeah, it was really good. This is like one of the first books I read when I got back into reading really heavily, so it's always a good stand out if you're in a slump.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like this would be a good because it's not super long. It moves pretty quick. There's it's told from third person point of view, but through multiple people's perspectives, yeah, and it does something similar to normal people. We're just talking about where you really get into the character's motivations yeah and like their inner thoughts and feelings beyond just their dialogue, yeah, or the circumstances that they're in so highly recommend. Also, it's a throwback, I mean it's like almost 10 years ago now, yeah, so yeah, a different world, completely, completely all right, thanks.
Speaker 2:All right, Thanks, guys. Go watch Normal People the TV show and send us your DM, us your gossip. And our next episode is going to be about Sunrise on the Reaping, because that book is coming out. Oh shit, yeah. When does that come out? Because this won't drop until March 11th and then our next one after that will drop March 25th and it comes out in between those two episodes. So so read that and join us for our uh debrief of that when it comes out.
Speaker 1:I can't wait. I literally just got like. I just got like a stomach ache no, I've been thinking about it so much do you think that if I order it through like bookshop, that it will get here on time?
Speaker 2:I would think so. I um it normally ships like the day it's released, but they normally ship pretty like. I just pre-ordered a book that was released today and I just got the shipping notification like a couple hours ago. So I mean, it's like the same day it was released, you know because I'm like, committed to not purchasing books on amazon.
Speaker 1:This year but I and like, and I was like, maybe I'll bend that rule for releases, but this last time it wasn't even worth it. No, it wasn't even worth it. So whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I think bookshop. I mean, how long is it? Let's see, is this gonna be another jump scare where I'm like I didn't realize how long this was gonna be? Sunrise on the reaping, um, I mean, I'm sure we'll be like desperate to read it unlike the other, I might just order from my indie bookstore and hopefully it's our time because you'll have a week um, I'm so scared, i'm'm like literally.
Speaker 2:Where does it tell you how many pages are in it? Product details? Oh, here we go 400 pages, okay, no Lightwork. So yeah, I would say, order it, because you'll have a full week between the release day and when we well, we'll have to record before that, obviously, but um, you know oh my god, I I'm feeling sick, I know, I know, I actually feel sick in my body, I know, especially because I lately I've been obviously you haven't read this, maybe one day you will, but I've been thinking a lot about crimson rivers, which, yeah, I just it's been on my mind.
Speaker 2:I keep getting all these edits on my freaking tiktok and so Maybe one day you will. But I've been thinking a lot about Crimson Rivers, which is the Hunger Games. Yeah, it's been on my mind, I keep getting all these edits on my freaking TikTok, and so now I'm like, okay, my body is ready to read some devastating Hunger Games stuff, because I am in that mental space.
Speaker 1:The thing that I'm just so scared about is that Colleen Hoover, not Colleen Hoover, oh my God, susan Collin, I don't know why. I was just thinking that. I was like what does she have to do with this? Yeah, she doesn't write things just to write things.
Speaker 2:No, the thing I'm scared about is like there's no way this ends. Well, we know where Hamish ends up Drunk, depressed, alone. This is going to be devastating. At least I'm hoping that. At least we'll get like a epilogue, that's like a flash forward to like maybe once the war's over and we can see that he's okay in the end, you know, like he, maybe he can find some peace. But obviously hamish's life is like very depressing, so I'm not ready for that okay, I'm pre-ordering right now okay, I can't wait.
Speaker 2:so, yeah, tune in. Next time we'll be talking about sunrise on the reaping by suzanne colman. So pre-order your books from your local bookstore and read along, so you can chat with us when we drop that up. So, hell yeah, hell yeah, all right, bye, hell yeah, hell yeah, all right, bye, bye, guys.