The Readirect Podcast
Shifting the conversation back to books. Hosted by Abigail Freshley and Emily Rojas.
The Readirect Podcast
Book Club: Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins
SPOILER ALERT! We will be discussing this book in exhaustive details, proceed with caution!
Today, we're doing a deep dive on Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins. The raw audio for this episode was over an hour and a half long, and it still somehow feels like we barely scratched the surface. There's so much to unpack with this new Hunger Games prequel. Tune in to hear our thoughts, reactions, and speculations.
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Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. My name is Abigail Freshly and I'm Emily Rojas.
Speaker 2:The Redirect Podcast is the show that shifts the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes relate to our real live experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode we are book clubbing the much anticipated newest installment of the Hunger Games series, sunrise on the Reefing. But first before we do that.
Speaker 2:We would love for you to support the show in a few simple ways. The first way is you can go on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Just go there and leave us a five-star review and let us know that you love the show.
Speaker 1:You can also follow us on Instagram or blue sky at redirect podcast and if you really really love the show, you can share it with a friend. We are going into, I think, the second best book season of the year like number one, being like holiday reading, second best being like spring, summer reading new releases yeah, release so much coming out like share our show with a friend. We have so little to hang on to you might as well, you might as well um amen, praise cure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I. I was, uh, um, I had a meeting, meeting with my manager the other day and we were talking about stuff that gives you energy outside of work, and I was like, yeah, you know how my podcast I really love it, it's just a great outlet. And she's like, oh, yeah, I should check that out. I was like you know, bro, I actually don't want anyone I know in real life to listen to this ever, but you guys should share this with your friends.
Speaker 1:Actually, I didn't think about my colleagues learning about my Wolfstar fascination, but you could share it with your friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but you guys don't have that same shame. You don't have to bleep out the names of the fics you're reading for fear of people you know in real life hearing about them.
Speaker 1:You can share this with a friend and she'd be like aren't these gals weird?
Speaker 2:so here she is, sunrise on the reaping. When did you get your book? The day the day release arrived I well, I did the ebook because I was scared of not getting in time, and I'm glad I did, because it does make it so convenient like I have all my highlighted notes just right here in a little doc. That was was very convenient.
Speaker 1:So anyways, I hope you're still getting the hardcover, though Just I do need to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to add to my Hunger Games shelf for sure.
Speaker 1:I have less notes than I wanted to have because, as I mentioned to you off mic, I had a long work road trip this week and so for part of that I did listen to part of the audio book. It's like I started the physical book, probably like the second part of the book, I listened to an audio and then last I finished reading. So I'm missing some of my notes because obviously it couldn't take notes while I was driving.
Speaker 1:But it's not hard to Okay we have done a really good job of not talking about this. Yeah, and I will say we have both been in the trenches trying to avoid spoilers. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:You guys suck out there If you're posting spoilers, by the way, I hate you guys, can people give? Us, can we give people a week? We need to like really brush up on our etiquette for fan spaces, I think, because I think to me like okay, a tv show 24 hours. A movie, give it the weekend. A book, you need to give it a week before you're posting.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I'm sorry, like, and if you have to post, there needs to be a giant block screen at the beginning. You're saying spoilers also.
Speaker 2:I think we need to talk about what constitutes a spoiler, because I think people are like oh, my spoiler, free review. And then they're like the epilogue, bro, the epilogue. I'm like, okay, well, now I know there's an epilogue and I know it's gonna devastate me, like that is a spoiler, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Like actually just I think to be a good person, you need to not post like if you're, you should take anything as a spoiler within a week of the book release after that you can be, like, more conservative about what you say as a spoiler, but come on guys like sorry, you're better than us and you get arcs of books and you can have your takes ready the same day the book comes out. But I think you need to hold on to that for a few extra days. Anyways, there will be spoilers in this book. That's what we're in this podcast.
Speaker 1:What happened to the good old days where we had to wait outside of borders for our books and then the only place you could really talk about it was some kind of obscure online forum? That's so real.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Like I'm not just going to get like assaulted by this. Yes, that's, so true, Kids these days, this generation, they don't know, they don't know.
Speaker 2:They don't know. That just brought back my memory of going to Barnes Noble the day that Breaking Dawn came out and buying it and like, yeah, I couldn't get it shipped to my house. Maybe I could back then, but I don't feel like I could.
Speaker 1:I had to go to the store and I had to buy it and lock myself in my room until I could use it. Well, yeah, because we were buying it with cash, with our allowance money. Yeah, with cash. Yeah, with credit cards. With our allowance money. Yeah, with cash. Yeah, with credit cards. Anyways, let's talk about this book Okay so because we have states like we have not talked about it at all. Yeah so, emily, what stars do you give this book? Did you like it? What's your overall impression?
Speaker 2:I'm crying, just talking about it. I gave it five stars.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you really are crying. There has been such a long time since a book made me cry and this got me sorry. I was just looking at the, the thing that got me page one. Happy birthday, hamish. I'm sorry, his birthday is reaping day. That got me on the first page. That is the first sentence of the book. I I highlighted it. Happy birthday, hamish. The upside of being born on reaping day is that you can sleep late on your birthday. It's pretty much downhill from there. That's describes this whole book there.
Speaker 1:It is downhill from there well and I think okay, so I also love the book.
Speaker 1:So yeah, glad that, and I was I was pretty confident it was gonna be amazing, yeah, but I was like five percent% scared because Ballad of Songbirds and Skanks underperformed our expectations. Yeah, didn't love it, but also I was like I love Haymitch as a character already, so how can I not love this? The first thing? So this book opens sunrise on his reaping day. Horrible, his 16th birthday. Horrible, his 16th birthday. The first thing in the book that made me shed a tear was he's talking about how he, um, like helps this old woman in his town, like, do make white liquor. And he says I have to agree, and though I'm not a drinker myself, yeah, I'm glad to get the bottle.
Speaker 2:I can easily sell it or trade it, possibly pass it on to lenore dove's uncle, clerk carmine yeah, it was like this was who he was supposed to be yes, yes, I highlighted that exact same line because and it comes up like drinking and alcohol comes up so much through this, this entire book, and it's kind of genius and horrifying at the same time, because you're like, yeah, this is like he just has this girl he loves, he's working hard he's, by the way, laura drop, like close friends with Katniss's dad, we'll get to that but like he has his whole life like a little brother, a mom, like a family and doesn't drink, and like his whole life is just derailed by this freak accident that wasn't even it wasn't even him getting reaped, which is also horrifying, right?
Speaker 1:okay, I think we should just talk about this in like three, three ways like, let's just start everything that happens before the games, so like we're thrust into district 12 and we're quickly. It's like lore drop, lore drop, lore drop. Katniss's dad is one of his best friends. Katniss's mom is also in the cut um, we also. He at some point meets and saves peter's dad. Yes, yes, there's like a lot of stuff going on and part of me was like fan service. Yeah, also, but like it made sense. Yes.
Speaker 2:And it does feel like true to what we know about District 12, which seems like everyone does kind of know everyone, like it's not a big community, especially in the same. You know like yeah, it makes sense that they would have all been connected. And it's even more devastating to think about Hamish later not being like hey, I was really close with your dad and just never bringing that up, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Just horrible anyways. And so he also has a little brother named Sid. His dad has passed on, but he helps his mom out with a lot of stuff and he also has a girlfriend. Lenore Do is um. One of the covey which we learned about is about songbirds and snakes. Yeah question, did we ever find out, like what really happens to them? Do they just like become obsolete by the time we get to the main series, or are they still around and we just don't really talk about them?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't know. I don't think we do know what happened to them. I think I would assume my version of events is that they have kind of either faded out or retreated or been sort dad knows about and it's implied that, like Lucy is buried. Well, it's not implied Lucy is buried there, lucy Gray, and so I think like it's possible that they live in the like in the woods or they've like kind of stopped naming their kids with the like the first name, then color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would think this series of events probably was very frightening, and it's. I can imagine it being something like any persecuted ethnic group changing their names and their outward facing customs to try to integrate more and not be a target of, you know, their oppressors.
Speaker 1:so that's what I picture happening, because and like part of this is because lenore dove has clearly like she has some secrets from haymitch, some things like in her culture that she doesn't share with him, and it's kind of implied that some of that is like passed down from her ancestors, like Lucy gray right, like this streak of resistance and rebellion. It's implied that she like has done a series of minor crimes that are really disruptive, like arson or things to like sabotage, uh like state sponsored events.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And she loves animals and very important she has a flock of geese that are her pets. Can't talk about the geese. He's having a conversation with Lenora Dove and she's like think about it. You're saying today is my birthday and there's reaping. Last year on my birthday there was also a reaping. So every year there will be a reaping on my birthday. But you have no way of knowing that. I mean, the reaping didn't even exist until 50 years ago, giving me one good reason why it should keep happening just because it's your birthday. Yes, which I loved that way to set up this story. Yes, Like these things only continue happening because we allow them to happen.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and we can't just accept them.
Speaker 2:And I also think it shows like Hamish I mean there's a million parallels to Hamish and Katniss, I think, and it makes so much sense why they connect the way they do, like even more so now. But this part especially to me, because it's like he too had really no interest. He was like just trying to survive and and make his money and be with the girl he loved and like chill had no real interest in being a revolutionary ends up sort of thrust into that position and we see how it goes differently for him than it did for Katniss. But I think very similar. Like Katniss is like no, I'm just like she wasn't trying to do anything by volunteering for her sister, she was just doing it and he wasn't trying to like really start anything by the actions he takes throughout this book. But, um, yeah, I thought this conversation was a good way to point that out like yeah, it didn't even occur to him like to try to stop it.
Speaker 1:You know, right, he was just thinking as like and the bigger point is why susan collins is a genius it's like to the bigger point that when you are really really ground down and oppressed and stepped on, like a lot of times, it takes away like the capacity to dream and think about how life could be different. Because every day, hamish is just focused on getting enough money to help feed his family helping his mom with the business, filling up the cistern, helping um, what's her face with the the distillery? Like, yeah, you only have the capacity to think about like surviving.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you couldn't dream big. Yeah, and it's yeah, like you said. It's like they're so slowly ground down because, um, skipping way ahead. But there's like a scene with plutarch where he's like, basically, why don't the districts rise up? There's way more of you guys than there is of us, and similar to when they're in training and they all have knives and weapons, and it's like, well, there's way more contestant or I don't know what you call them. Uh, what are they called?
Speaker 2:Tributes? There's way more tributes than there are peacekeepers. Like we could take them. But it's like, well, at the same time, we could, but some of us would die in that process, but we're all about to die anyway. So it's just like, yeah, it didn't even. It's like he's slowly realizing that over time, like, yeah, there is actually more of us than them. Why aren't we taking action? And that's kind of something that keeps coming up, uh, throughout the story yeah, another big thing that comes up as he's approaching the reaping is the theme of propaganda is introduced early in the book Because there's all these huge posters around.
Speaker 1:The poster is like a big theme and they say like no peacekeepers, no peace. A picture of President Snow that says Panem's number one peacekeeper no peace, no bread, no security and basically copaganda.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah, yeah, it's everywhere. And that's I think we knew going into this that it would be about propaganda, because I think Suzanne Collins specifically said that, so I knew that would come up. But I did not realize that so many things we knew about, or we thought we knew about, hamish and his games would not necessarily be the truth or the full truth. So that was really interesting how this is a true story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Also did we already know that the reaping day was on July 4th.
Speaker 2:Someone I looked that up. Someone said it was revealed during spout of songbirds and snakes, but not during the original trilogy and I think that I remember that from uh songbirds whatever.
Speaker 1:So this also means that hamish is a cancer. Just, I just made it great, that's um. So it's the quarter quell, the second quarter quell and the. The twist for this quarter quell is that each district is giving twice the normal number attributes of two, two boys and two girls. Yeah, which is horrifying again. Yeah. So so they start, uh, they start reaping, and two girls get chosen Maisley Donner and Luella I forget her last name. Yeah, luella is one of his really good friends. Yeah.
Speaker 2:She's like a younger person who, like he's known her whole life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's younger, she's like 13. Yeah, she wears braids and he calls her sweetheart. It's like his endearment to her and we put it together that when he's calling, like katniss reminds him of luella. Yeah, whenever he meets her and that's why he is, he's not patronizing her by calling her sweetheart he genuinely feels like it's a connection to remember.
Speaker 2:it's a lot, yeah, no it's actually too much to think about.
Speaker 1:It really is so then the first boy gets reaped, and it's his name is Wyatt. He's an odds, he's a son of like the odds maker in town and he's kind of hated yeah then the second boy gets reached, and it's not Hamish, it's not him. That was a shock. That was the first big twist.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I was like, okay, maybe it's not his games, like, but I know he was in the quarter quell. I was just so confusing, like when I read that. I'm just like how does this make any sense at all?
Speaker 1:so, uh, yeah so it's actually this guy named wood wood bean who tries to run away, yes, and in running away, he gets shot down and killed sure, why not? Which is really upsetting and also another important thing that's happening is that, um, we're seeing that. So plutarch heavensby is there.
Speaker 2:He's like a young communications professional that's like been dedicated to the district 12 team which I was like, okay, more fan service, but I'm okay with it yeah, I get it and it's important, like I think it is important, his His arc makes more sense, I think when you have him starting here Totally.
Speaker 1:So he's there filming stuff. We find out like not everything that happens live gets in the broadcast because they're not actually streaming live. There's like a five-minute delay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's like part of the propaganda message Right, which makes sense. It's like part of the propaganda message right about, like what you're seeing isn't necessarily what's happening and there's often movements of people and stuff that you don't see it did make you wonder too, like what is the delay like for the games?
Speaker 2:obviously we're not there yet, but like it feels like it has to be more than five minutes for them to you know, chop it up correctly, um, so I'm just interested in that like. I would love to know more about how that works. But don't obviously get that insight. But yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:It is interesting how they manipulate what's going on so so woodpean's mom is like freaking out and right, it's her, it's his mom, I think yeah, she like when they they stay like carry him away and she starts completely losing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so lenore dove gets up and she's like trying to calm her down. But like there's now an altercation happening between lenore dove and the peacekeepers, and the mom and hamish moved by like an urge and instinct to protect Lenore Dove, gets up to try breaking it up. Yeah. And when he gets up there, drusilla, who is like their escort and the like this, this world's Effie Trinket is like okay, well, I guess you could take his place, yeah.
Speaker 2:So his name was never drawn.
Speaker 1:You volunteered? Yeah. He threw himself into this motivated by, like an instinct to protect, yeah, which is like it was just the craziest he was just trying to help his girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly oh, that was really tough that was so sad because I'm like no, he was like he was gonna be fine, like again, but the thing is like no one was gonna be fine. You know they're none of them are fine, but it's just horrible. So, yeah, and then, um, basically they're like nobody gets to say goodbye because this was horrible, but they're gonna have to reshoot some of the reaction shots, um, to cover up what actually happened. And so plutarch is like hey, if you to hamish's family, if you guys will, you know, refilm a couple reaction scenes that you're faking, I'll let you say goodbye to him. And so they agree.
Speaker 2:And he's like no, and this whole thing is like his. He remembers his dad saying to a different victor don't let your blood paint the posters, or something like that. And it's like die on your own terms and don't let them use you, um, as like a propaganda machine, and so, uh, that is. He keeps remembering that. And so he gets so frustrated because he's like no, they're, they're like you don't have to let them film this moment with you guys. But of course he wants to say bye to his mom and his little brother as well. So it's just tough, that's tough.
Speaker 1:What would you do? I don't know you know as we're saying that it's reminding me of something of in the main series, a conversation that pita and gannis have the night before the games, where he's like I just don't want them to change me Like I don't want to be a piece in their games. Yeah, it's that like so. In this way it's drawing a parallel between Peeta and Haymitch a little bit. Yeah, he doesn't get to say goodbye to Lenore Dove, he decides to do the goodbye with his mom and brother.
Speaker 1:But as the train is pulling away, this totally gutted me. Yeah, he looks out the train window up on the ridge and he says that's when I see Lenore dove she's up on the ridge, her red dress plastered to her body, One hand clutching the bag of gumdrops that he got her.
Speaker 1:As the train passes, she tilts her head back and wheels, and her loss wheels her loss and rage into the wind. And even though it guts me, even though I smashed my fist into the glass until they bruise, I'm grateful for her final gift that she's denied Plutarch the chance to broadcast our farewell, the moment our hearts shattered. It belongs to us.
Speaker 2:I have that with a note that just says f*** me.
Speaker 1:My note says Jesus there's no other. The moment our hearts shattered it belongs to us.
Speaker 2:And again, it is literally downhill from here. It is downhill I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think that there are some uphills, like I think there are moments of realization, like moments of resistance. I think that's another big theme of this book, yeah is the timeline of resistance yeah like katniss's story could have easily been Hamish's story, yeah, and like we'll see how that unfolds as he gets to like, but it wasn't. And it's like what a message for us in these times that like, oh, it's not good you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like no, yeah, cause I think this whole time I was thinking, I kept thinking, okay, this is the second quarter quell. The third quarter quell is Cappas and Peta. So that's 25 years. So there's 25 years and he's just a boy. He's just a boy in this. So I just think, like there's 25 years between everything that happens in this book and like this attempt. There is an attempt to like stop the hunger games and overthrow the capital, and it just wasn't. It didn't work because there wasn't whatever, like the, the stars didn't align, the districts didn't rise up, it didn't work out. And I just think of haymitch during those 25 years and it's horrifying, like it's actually horrifying but it is like guilt and shame and like what if I had just complied?
Speaker 1:yeah, so he's like motivated it just takes time.
Speaker 2:Like this obviously plants the seeds because all of the players that not not all, but a lot of the players that end up making the next attempt successful with katniss are already here in this one, and you know, yes yes, anyways.
Speaker 1:So yes, the timeline of resistance is very long sometimes um yes so part of the symbol of this is that, um, the a birthday present that he receives from lenore dove the morning of the reaping, is this necklace? That's also a flint striker, and it's what's on the cover of the book. It's like a horseshoe shape with a bird on one end and a snake on the other end, which I wonder also if, like, if that's like um, like a covey symbol that was somehow passed down from yeah uh birds snakes, yeah lucy gray.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anyways, um, we can kind of like quickly move through this part. Like we're getting to know the other tributes, their dynamics. Luella and Haymitch want to be allies. Nobody gives a shit about people in district 12. Yeah, maisley and he are like kind of at odds because she's not super close with, like she kind of has beef with, lenore gray. Yeah, um, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:Anything you want to talk about from this part, like between when they get on the train and when they do the, the tribute parade um no, I think yeah, uh, it's just depressing I mean there's a few moments with, uh, plutarch, where it seems like plutarch's like hey, like I want to help you stack this in your favor, like I want to paint a good picture in the best light. Yeah, yeah, I'm really trying to help you, and that brings out complex feelings for hamish, because he's like okay, thanks, I guess, yeah, but like you're still, part of this. Yeah, what do you say they give you a cookie like? This is so performative, like?
Speaker 2:you okay. Yeah, you want to make my impending death a little less. You know, horrible like that's, I'm still gonna die. Like you're still sending me off to die, you're still part of this cog in this Hunger Games machine. That's just horrible.
Speaker 1:And that's like. The bleak part is that in the instances where they are shown kindness by their handlers with the people in the Capitol, it's not like true allyship, it's like, oh, you know, we're just a victim of our circumstances. Yeah, and like what? Another message for today.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally, yeah. And also I will say they don't have any mentors or anything, because no one allegedly has. They know a girl one, but they don't know who she is, obviously, or anything about her, so they don't have any mentors. And then that's going to fall on Amy forever. Now it's horrible.
Speaker 1:But we get a delicious little morsel of a treat for fans which is that because they don't have mentors of their own. They are being lent mentors from other districts, and who are their mentors?
Speaker 2:Emily, it is Mags and Wis of of uh hunger games.
Speaker 1:Fame, yes, beloved, so wiris it turns out, she's like the victor from the year before. Yeah, we get to learn something really interesting about her games, which is that she did not have to kill a single person. She didn't show a drop of blood.
Speaker 2:She just outsmart the arena, which was awesome yes, like she even outsmarted the, the people who, like they couldn't, the game makers couldn't even figure out what she was doing or where she was.
Speaker 1:So that's it was like a weird, like reflective arena and she was able to like hide in one of the like gaps of the yeah reflections yeah and just chill out until everyone else died. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, and Mags, we don't know much about her games because back when they were doing her games they like weren't all high tech, yeah, but she's like this very loving motherly, like mentor figure for.
Speaker 2:Haymitch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who and all the and all the tributes like showing lots of compassion. Yeah, mitch, who, um and all the and all the tributes like showing lots of compassion. Yeah, and she asked them this really just like heart wrenching question. Yeah, she's like I used to not ask tributes like what they wanted, cause I just figured they want to live. Yeah, but it occurred to me that there was lots of other things that you could want in this situation. Yeah, besides living, like maybe you want to protect your district mate, or you don't want to die in a horrific way, or like don't want to suffer or whatever. Yeah, and like maybe I can help you do those things. Um, and all the tributes are kind of like I don't, I don't want to, I want to die on my own terms. Yeah, like why it says I don't want to, I want to die on my own terms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like Wyatt says I don't want to die a long death, Like I don't want people making money off of my suffering Because he's like, yeah, the bookie's son, and it's just. Yeah, that was tough. I really liked Wyatt. I just have to give that shout out. Yeah, Like I know the bedding. Like that's not his fault, that's just the life he was born into. Yeah, I loved them all it was so sad. Anyways, it was tough.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but I thought that was interesting because it's like, yeah, you're actually that's stupid to say I want to live, because actually I mean only one of you can, and if that, probably not. And so what do you want? I can help you get that. Yeah, and I think we see that too with Hamish as a mentor, where he's kind of like willing to give like P, to like oh, you want me to save her, like okay, I will, like I'll choose her, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the parade is a total show. Their stylist like doesn't care, doesn't show up. They're late. There's like a huge horse chariot crash and Luella dies, yeah, like horrifically, and Haymitch takes it upon himself to pick up Luella's body, hijack a carriage and ride up to like right in front of President Snow. Yeah, kind of like, lay her body, yeah, there, yeah, as a message of like, you did this.
Speaker 2:You did this. Yeah, like you have to face the killing that you're doing this one is killing all of us yeah, this, you own it.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I thought this was really interesting too, because it's again like it reminded me of katniss and rue when she like puts the flowers all over her body in the arena because it's like they're not again neither. Like he wasn't thinking consciously in his mind I'm gonna do this to cause the uprising, and everyone's gonna. He's just like so in the moment, overwhelmed by this like anger, and like righteous anger, and like I'm gonna show, like I'm gonna do this, and there's not there's not an ulterior motive, but he ends up paying the price for it anyways, as if there was an ulterior motive, as if he was like a rebel, and so then it's like, well, I might as well join this rebellion because, like I've already, just by doing what comes naturally to myself and reacting in this way in which I felt was right, I'm becoming a part of this uprising that I had no intention of joining yeah, and he's trying to send a message to snow, but also to people at home and also to the onlookers who are there.
Speaker 1:That doesn't really pan out because that part is not broadcast across the nation and, in fact, the next thing that happens is that he's invited to a private audience with president snow. This was crazy.
Speaker 2:This was crazy so I saw some people saying sorry, uh, like suzanne cohen saw like one too many fan cams of snow from from the valedictorian snake. I was like I got a few more things to say about this guy because this like really drives home. He, he's evil again. I don't know like I get it. The actor is hot or whatever who played him, but like, let's all calm down. He was also evil in ballad of songbirds and snakes the whole time, like he was. He was pretty horrible in that. So, uh, yeah, that that it's even worse now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he basically meets up with him at plutarch's house and he's like sick and you find out that he's like had food poisoning, but really what it was is that he has poisoned the guy who was in charge of the parade. Yeah, and he ate it too.
Speaker 1:He just had the antidote so he didn't die, he just had food poisoning, and so this is also like educational for haymitch, because he learns that he has a proclivity for poison as we know, as we know is his custom to sort of poison himself, so no one's suspicious yeah and that's why later on he's like in pretty poor health and, uh, smells like roses all the time, because he's like decaying inside.
Speaker 2:um, and this is another moment where time because he's like decaying inside, and this is another moment where Haymitch is like, well, this is the least I can. They're like go get this milk that he has to drink to absorb the poison, I guess, or whatever. And Haymitch is like I cannot help right now. So he goes and he drinks the milk and is like sorry, there's none left, and he thinks that maybe Snow doesn't know about that, but unfortunately he does.
Speaker 1:So basically the talking to that Snow gives him is like, hey, that was a little bit too much. And like you know, look, you could go off and you can die in the games and like, because of that, like, your family will have a fine life, they won't be bothered, whatever. But like, fuck around and find out, Like if you keep doing this kind of stuff, there will be consequences. He heard that, but then he still decided to try and blow up the arena.
Speaker 2:Well, because he's like I'm going to die anyways. Oh, so that's kind of his whole mentality, this whole games. He's like they're they are not going to let me live. So, a I can't be a part of any alliance with anyone that I care about winning because they're gonna kill me. And b I might as well try to blow up the arena or do something like I might as well go out some way, because there's no way they're letting me survive this. And so, um yeah, like I might as well resist because, like I can't live, they're not going to let me live. So what's the point in trying to like win or trying to play by their rules? I might as well just like go out in a blazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then why is he surprised about, like, the consequences for his family? Cause I thought what was communicated communicated him by snow was like, if you mess around, like, there will be consequences for your family.
Speaker 2:yeah, I guess I don't know I think he's just 16, yeah that's true um, and I think he thought like well, they let me live. You know, like they. I think he thought they would kill him. I don't think he necessarily picked up on like they'll kill your family. To me, I feel like his reaction was not like, oh, I have to die in the games. It was more like, well, they're not going to let me live. And so then they let him live and they paraded him around. So I think he's like okay, well, maybe they're safe.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what? We had it wrong. So he said so. Snow dabs the spittle with his shirt cuff. But there are many different ways to die in the arena you might get stabbed or strangled or die of thirst. Death by butt tends to be the most memorable. We have some beauties this year, programmable to serve individual tributes and far scarier than the weasels. Um, I have no, our tributes, uh, session in the kitchen where we revealed our final wishes. I have no say in that, no, but I do and I will orchestrate your death based on your behavior from here on out. So he's basically saying like he doesn't introduce. He doesn't introduce like the potential for the family to die yet More, only like his death.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought he did say something about that earlier, though.
Speaker 1:That was like like you said, like like you'll die but your family will live a long life. You decide what you want lenore dove and your mother and the dear little brother of yours to see. You can die clean and fair, or we can open the games with the slowest, most agonizing death ever to befall a tribute. And yes, you should be thanking me for giving you the option. Yeah, so he's not really thinking about that yet. Yeah, um, one of the other mentors at the games is bt, who we know from catching fire. No, this is not acceptable to me. Tragically, bt had also. What did he do that got him in trouble? He was trying to orchestrate some he was trying to do something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he tried to. Yeah, he tried to, like, hack something or I don't know.
Speaker 1:Oh, he created something that would help to hack the, the government system. Yeah, we couldn't get rid of him because he was too valuable, so they decided to punish him by reaping his son. No, simply no, which is horrible and he's definitely gonna die. So bt is there and it's like the worst possible thing.
Speaker 1:I can imagine he and hamish hook up and he's like, hey, the arena can be destroyed, yeah, and if, like, you're willing to help with that, like we could. Basically, there's like this water tank, you could puncture it, you could flood the computer and you could drown and, like, ruin the games and so hamish decides that this is his objective there is one thing we missed.
Speaker 2:Um, when he goes to snow and plutarch, isn't that when he gets to call lenore dove? When does he call her? Okay, that's later. Sorry, I'm having a hard time remembering when he got to do that no, no, no.
Speaker 1:But the thing we're missing here is that he turns around. He thinks it's going to be lenore dove. He turns around and he sees that, uh, luella is standing there, but it's not. That's probably why I got confused. Right, the capital is covering up luella's like accidental death by using, like some poor person from district 11 who kind of looks like her, and then like basically, they've hijacked her and programmed her to act like luella so that she can body double her in the games.
Speaker 2:That was horrifying too that was horrifying because it's like, yeah, you, you're yeah, like no one like imagine being her family and you're watching this and you're like that is definitely not our child, you know, and but no one's like believing you, because they're like, well, they're saying it's luella, I just like it, yeah what the heck?
Speaker 1:yeah, so there's that component going on everyone's. Whoever who's ever met luella notes, it's not her yeah, but also like she's like this tragically hijacked person like who is she? 11 yeah, it's another like part of this whole theme of like things aren't always as they appear.
Speaker 2:You can't trust people.
Speaker 1:You can't trust the capital to tell you the truth um, yes. So while all this is going on in the training, there's the career pack and then, for the first time ever, every single person from another district that's not a career district, which is one, two and four decide that they're going to join an alliance together and they call themselves the newcomers. So it's also part of this whole thing about, like, we're greater than them. There's more of us and there are of them.
Speaker 2:If we band together, we can overcome them yeah, and I think this really showed something that hamish continues to shine at in the hungarians that we know is this ability to like um, make these connections and make these alliances, like he's. He seems to have always had that ability and that really shines here, because there's some districts that kind of are holding out and he's able to kind of like approach them in different ways, um, and get them all to join this. He's a bridge builder. Yeah, he's a bridge builder.
Speaker 1:He, though, decides that because his sole objective is going to be to break the arena and flood it that he doesn't want to be near, like he's going to be a target and so he doesn't want to endanger any of the other tributes in his alliance, so he decides that he's going to peel off and be a loner. Yeah, which is also sad to me because it's like the dominant narrative about his life, like if you went back and watched, highlight some of the games, it's like right oh, everyone wanted to be friends, except for grumpy old haymitch, yeah but, it was like in reality, this is the most self-sacrificial thing he could have done and that's.
Speaker 2:That's like his whole life. It's not just the hunger games, but it's like afterwards he's like I can't get close to anyone ever again. I will live alone in the victor village. I will never like let anyone else into my heart again for the rest of my life, like he's only 16 and this is his whole rest of his life. From this point, so yeah, no, no, I'm not okay it's, yeah, it's, it's insane.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's time for him to go to the games he gets in there and he does call.
Speaker 2:When does he call freaking lenore dove? I think you know what after their interview.
Speaker 1:So there's this whole thing Like we can kind of skip over. Right right, right yeah. Like Effie is in the cut and there's like they get ready for their interviews and then after that, plutarch this is kind of important. Plutarch is like everyone, come back over to my place and we'll finish filming your video and draw something like that.
Speaker 1:And then he's like I knew it was at Plutarch's house. Hey, like I have somebody on the phone, whatever. He's like I know you're going to try and drown the thing. Like and Hamish doesn't trust him. He's like, no, that's good, Don't trust me, but like here's what you need to know, and whatever. Yeah, and he says something like you know, don't think that it's just the people in the district who want freedom, yeah, yeah, which is kind of like gosh.
Speaker 1:It's like you're talking out of two sides of your mouth, Like you don't know whether to truly trust Plutarch because he has aligned himself with the privilege that comes from being in the capital. Sure, sure yeah. Also, he did get him on the phone with Lenore Duff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, someone said that to complete the prequel trilogy, she could write Plutarch's story and that could show us, like F phoenix games, joanna's games, because he's been there through all of that, so you could see that through his pov and find how he got involved and like what. I think that I think she laid the groundwork for that for sure, because you are like I don't know what to make of this guy, plutarch I would love that.
Speaker 1:I mean, I would love that too. If I had to choose. I would say I really want Phoenix Games. Yeah, but like can I?
Speaker 2:handle that.
Speaker 1:I don't think she's going to do Phoenix Games.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because she's really focusing on District 12.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like the tie-in from Songbirds and Snakes was District 12, and then this was obviously District 12. And I think Phoenix Games is like maybe I think to me like what's interesting about Phoenix is him and Annie, which is like after his games, like I don't necessarily care as much about his games, I'm interested more how he went like, but like, imagine what he went through. It's horrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so maybe, maybe a Plutarch book would be good, but like he could, he could interact with Finnick, you know, yeah, so he called part, though he calls lenore dove. She's in prison and they say she's about to get released. Uh, we find out later. That's not true. And she says like I love you like?
Speaker 1:what is it all fire, forever fire she says forever.
Speaker 2:And he says in his mind I need to say no, don't spend your life grieving me, love whoever you want. Only, I just can't bear the thought of it at the moment, her kissing someone else. But I'm trying to be noble, to pull myself up to say those words when the line goes dead without warning. Lenore dove, lenore dove. She's gone, truly for good this time, but she is safe. I set the swan head back in the cradle like I'm laying down a sleeping child, slow and gentle, like goodbye, my love their love is so help, help, help.
Speaker 2:They're just kids, like they're just, they're just kids. But yeah, so she's in, you know she's imprisoned, um, you know that snow knows about her obviously from their interaction earlier and that he snow reveals like how much he actually knows about the covey and he knows exactly who she is, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's horrible well, and later hamish will put this together, because after his games he'll see like a video and he'll put together the fact that Lucy Gray. Yeah, that Snow knows so much about the cubby because he also was in love with a cubby girl. Yeah, so he gets to the arena. The arena is like a magical land, full of like fruit and cute animals.
Speaker 1:And it's like beautiful, which I thought was another really good and interesting choice about this whole like misinformation propaganda thing. Like, yes, everything looks so beautiful and shiny on the surface but everything is poisonous. All of the fruit is poisonous, the water in the crystal blue streams is poisonous. Uh-huh, the cute little animals are like mutts that are programmed to kill you. Like, if you get into like the flower beds and like smell them, like the pollen will kill you.
Speaker 2:Everything is poison, yeah, like every beautiful thing is poison.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so everything in the arena is like perfect and beautiful, but it is bad and so like almost everyone, goes the opposite direction of Hamish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he just starts like he walks into this like forest on his own. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because he's like I'm going north and I'm going to try and find that tank.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, because, okay, what we kind of glazed over again I'm assuming most people have read this book was that BT showed him how to kind of like use what items he had to make an explosive and what's his name? Ampert, who is his son, is going to have the like detonator thing and they're going to meet up at some point and uh, so yeah, haymitch has been shown how to make an explosive. He's trying to blow up the water tank and flood the electronics of the arena, essentially um to yeah, yeah, stop the games, or obviously like horrors persist, there's bad things that are going on.
Speaker 1:He does a pretty good job of getting sponsors, of surviving until he can hook up with ampert and then you know he's able to by following some of the mutts to locate the place where he can get into. And, like you know, this whole time, like what you're not getting from this podcast that you would get from reading the book, because, like his calculus about okay, how do I portray to the audience?
Speaker 1:I'm like not with the game makers on to my plot. How do I portray to them that, like I am just like this rascal. I'm not trying to do something bad, so they'll keep sending me money, or they'll keep sending me um sponsorships and food, right like?
Speaker 2:how to show that I'm not betraying this alliance that I was like part of, by going off on my own, like, how do I show that? And not give away to the game makers and I'm trying to like, have this dastardly plot and like, yeah, keep getting sponsors. So there's so many angles to how, um, he's portraying himself, which is just really something very interesting to think about, which again parallels to katniss constantly thinking about how to play up the love story between her and Peeta and realizing, okay, I need to act a certain way to keep getting food and medicine and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is showing like, okay, if Katniss and Peeta and their games hadn't finessed the system to both be victors, katniss would have been the victor Because and it's showing like that victor like in order to win, to play their game and win by their rules, you have to constantly be thinking like you can't just be this earnest person and, like Katniss and Haymitch, really both have the mind of Victor, they get it. Yeah, totally yeah totally In the worst way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and not a good way but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:So hijinks ensue. He's able to get down to the tank, but he is unsuccessful in like. He damages the arena, but he's unsuccessful in his objective of flooding the arena.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they instantly kill Ampert for his sins. Basically.
Speaker 1:In a really bad way.
Speaker 2:In a horrifying, disturbing way that BT has to watch because he's his mentor and his father. It's the most horrific thing I've ever heard in my life, yeah it's horrible. Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 1:Anyways, so, like so, now he's trying to figure out. Okay, like now, what do I do? Like maybe my objective is I'm trying to protect mazely. Who's the last person left of my or like or the other people from the newcomers alliance? Or maybe I figure out.
Speaker 1:You know how to continue messing up the arena, like I'm going to try and find the edge of the arena you know I hear like what I think might be a generator running and I'm going to try and like, go mess it up and he goes and finds it and he figures out there's like this huge force field covering the generator so when you throw something down didn't hit it, it just bounces back up at you right, um, which is the part we did know about his games that, yeah, we had figured out the force field and um, so yeah, that was interesting, like how he discovered it um, we also, like you know, in some of the spars that they have with some of the careers, like we see, at one point there are like maintenance crews coming out to like help, like, uh, maintenance the arena, and like they're killed by some of the tributes.
Speaker 1:That was crazy, like what was that about?
Speaker 2:I really was confused by that. Like how did they mess that up so bad? Like how did they not know they were right there?
Speaker 1:You know it was just yeah, but the gut-wrenching part about all of this is that everything that's happened in the arena is a shit show.
Speaker 2:Things keep going wrong the game makers keep getting outsmarted. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Things are going wrong, but none of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. None of it, yeah none of it makes it to tv.
Speaker 1:Yeah, none of it is able to get out. Nothing is communicated. Yeah, yeah, nothing is communicated, like it's.
Speaker 2:The only repercussion that happens is negative consequences for haymitch and the people that he loves yeah, like he's the one who has to suffer and and it makes you realize too, I was thinking about this like I think hamish is the type of person that, had his games been portrayed accurately which obviously we'll get to the end, and how he sees all this, or whatever but I think he would have shown it to pita and katniss and be like this sucks for me to watch and I don't want you to see me like this, but this is going to be helpful for you. You know what I mean. Like I think he would have shown it to them. I think the reason he didn't want them to watch it was because it was like this isn't even what happened. Like what you're going to watch is not even remotely the truth of what happened in these games Everything was so patched together.
Speaker 2:Like don't watch it, you know, you know, because it's not real. Watch the other games, because I guess maybe we assume that there's some reality there. But yeah, I thought that was in my mind. That's my like. Explanation for why he didn't want them to watch his games was not necessarily because he was like embarrassed or ashamed. I feel like he would have been like more. So this just isn't the truth.
Speaker 1:So I don't want you to watch it.
Speaker 2:You're not going to learn anything from a fake edited together. You know uh show that's not so yeah, oh, anyways.
Speaker 1:There are moments of resistance throughout the games. Yeah, through in the arena, things that hamish does um, he decides that he's going to um do like one last stitch effort of breaking the arena, I think. How does he start to do that?
Speaker 2:um, well, at like the very end when he tries to blow up the force field or whatever, yeah, the generator. Yeah, so he tries to blow up the force field by the generator, right?
Speaker 1:after he wins. So Right after he wins, so like Right after he wins. It's him in a career. He uses the force field. An axe, come back, like, goes off the cliff, comes back, and then he like realizes that he has like one less opportunity to do like a bomb, and he does it, but he doesn't die.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't make it onto TV, yes, and now he's being punished by being kept in an apartment with only milk and bread for weeks. He gets back home to his district, finally, and his mom and brother are killed in an act of arson. They're burned alive in their home and Lenore Dove is poisoned after he's reunited with her and he thinks everything's gonna be fine. And uh, she is poisoned by some gumdrops.
Speaker 2:That she thought were from him. Yeah, that was absolutely horrifying, like just absolutely the most horrific thing. And uh, because it's so like oh, you thought she was okay, no, she's not okay, like we're gonna take her away, uh, well, yeah.
Speaker 1:So right before this happens, he's like watching the the recap of the games and he's like it's sinking in like wow, yeah, this didn't work out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he's like wow, this is completely different than what happened to me in the arena, like none of the parts that I was hoping to send a message with actually made it into this cut. And he wonders too, like what did what actually did get shown and what like? Are they supplementing false memories? Now, even with this like recap cut, or are is this what was actually shown? Like he doesn't even really know, like what the audience originally saw, what they're now being told to remember by this like you know super cut of what happened.
Speaker 1:I think that's just yeah, gotta mess with your mind for sure oh, so it's just too much there's not even enough time to cover all the sad things Like he's realizing like, okay, yeah, this was an act of arson, okay, yeah, so then so he gives. He realizes she has a poison gumdrop. He's like spit it out now. What, it's fine, where's the other? Where's the other? I swallowed it, I guess. Why Throw it up, get out of your stomach. She's panicking. There's no charcoal tablets. Blah, blah, blah. Hey, mitch I.
Speaker 1:Her plexiglass crosses her face and she presses a hand to her chest. Her knees give way. I can't stand up. I pull her back to her feet. You've got to Just get to the house. I throw it back. My head is green. Clerk Carmine, help help rest of mine.
Speaker 1:Lenore Dove, I plead, don't, don't. A blood-flecked foam bubbles up over her lips. Oh no, no. Her eyes fixate on something in the distance. See that? She says hoarsely. I turn my head and see the sun just peeking out over the horizon. What the sun? Don't you let it rise? She goes out. Tears choke me. I can't stop it. You know, I can't stop it. Her head jerks a little bit to the side On the reaping. She whispers oh no, don't leave me with that, don't leave me at all. Lenore Dove, please try and hold on, darling Lenore Dove, promise. Her eyes flutter shut, okay. Okay, I promise, but you can't go, you can't leave me, because I love you like all fire. You too. I think that's what her lips said, lenore Dove. I press mine against hers, willing her to stay with me, refusing to say goodbye, but when I pull back I taste the poison and I know she's gone.
Speaker 2:There's a part. I don't know if it's right there or if it's later, but he basically says as well, like she has condemned me to live because she's like you have to do something about this.
Speaker 1:You have to. You can't let the sun rise. Don't let the sun rise. The reaping.
Speaker 2:Because otherwise he's like I'll just go kill myself. But he's like, no, like she's condemned me to life now because I have to. I have to stop this. You know one way or another, and he's gonna lose the will to do it, but like, yeah, can't. Like he has to live yeah, yeah, he has to live, so that's just not right.
Speaker 1:So, but then there's this whole part using um, uh, what the? Uh?
Speaker 2:edward allen poe um, oh my god the never, nevermore yeah what's the thing called the raven?
Speaker 1:it's called the raven oh, I didn't think it was called that. Okay, the raven. So basically, like, she gets her name from that poem and so, as they're going, they're basically having a mass funeral where they're burying all the tributes. Lenore dove, we learn that katniss's dad sang at the funeral, right, okay?
Speaker 2:some of my notes definitely did not export in this little export because I remember highlighting that part where he sings and hamish is hamish notes that all the um mockingjays like fell silent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That got me because I was like Katniss was like used to say, oh, they used to say my dad, even the you know Mockingjays would be quiet when he sang, and so like that moment in the and it's too much, it's too much for me, like in the middle of him singing at this mass funeral, like you said, and also Wyatt's dad who has killed himself, and all the tributes, and then Lenore Gray, and so like the whole town's there. Anyways, that part really got me.
Speaker 1:It's also a really interesting choice because there's so many times, because, like, this is the future of the timeline that we're living in, right, but there's very few ever cultural references to our world. But she made the very like specific choice to tie in the Edgar Allan Poe poem into this book to ground us in the fact that this is part of our timeline too yeah, us and the fact that this is part of our timeline too, yeah, and the whole. The end, um, the last chapter is like going through the funerals, going through, like his choices to push his friends away, to to start self-medicating, to like intersplice with different stanzas from the poem.
Speaker 2:It's horrifying actually once again it, it's like it.
Speaker 1:To me it was horrifying, but I also knew it was coming, so it was just like okay, yeah it's like, obviously you see how he ended up then we get the epilogue no um, can I read this one part?
Speaker 2:Sorry, before we get to the epilogue. This is from after the poem On the victory tour. He's talking to Plutarch. This makes me think that there might actually be a Plutarch book like again. But he says All right, there, Hamish, I have nothing to live for. I say this without even a note of self-pity. I am simply stating a fact. Then you have nothing to lose. That puts you in a position of power. I would like to kill him at that moment, but what would be the point? Instead, I say you think you're a good person, don't you, Plutarch? You think you're a good guy because you told me about the sun and the berms, when what you really did is help create the capital's propaganda and broadcast it to the country. 49 kids died for it, but you gave it the old heaven's beast spin and in that propo you're some kind of hero. Plutarch takes a moment to answer. I know I'm nobody's idea of a hero, hamish, but at least I'm still in the game oh, I really, now you really have me on this plutarch book thing.
Speaker 1:I really I, I.
Speaker 2:It did not occur to me when I was reading this until I just saw someone's comment on like reddit saying it should be a plutarch to run. It should be a trilogy. I feel like that makes sense of prequels and I feel like plutarch's story would be very interesting because, like he does play this role throughout you know this entire thread. So anyways, the epilogue.
Speaker 1:I have to read this little part.
Speaker 1:Okay, read it, he's like, and so I remain forever trapped in my chamber. I'm so desperate to forget, to escape the grief, aching loneliness, the loss of those I love. There are no mementos of them. All are burned or buried. I work on forgetting their voices, their faces, their laughs. Even in my head my language becomes dull and flat, stripped of the color and the music of yesterday. The only human contact I allow myself arrives by the way of capital news, which I play on the television set 24 7. That way, if lenore dove's ghost ever comes to me, I can tell her I'm working on my strategy to keep the sun from rising. Oh god, no, he's still like. He's always holding a candle, not just for lenore dove, but the hope that one day the games won't happen anymore yeah, yeah so epilogue this was like worth the whole book, I think it was brutal should we just read the whole epilogue?
Speaker 1:okay, yeah, why not? Do you want to read it? You want me to read it, I can read it.
Speaker 2:I have it right here I don't know if I can do it. Okay, when lenore dove comes to me now she's not angry or dying, so I think she's forgiven me. She's grown older with me, her face etched with fine lines, her hair touched with gray, like she's been living her life beside me as the years passed, instead of lying in her grave, still so rare and radiant. I fulfilled my promise about the reaping, or at least lent a hand, but she says I can't come to her yet. I have to look after my family. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I first saw the girl at the hob when she was just a baby. Burdock was so proud of her. He toted her around everywhere. After he died in that mine explosion she started coming alone, trading the odd squirrel or rabbit, tough and smart, her hair in two braids, then reminding me for all the world of Luella McCoy, my sweetheart of old. And after she volunteered for the games, that nickname couldn't help but slip out. I didn't want to let them in, her and Peta, but the walls of a person's heart are not impregnable, not if they have ever known love. That's what Lenora Dove says.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I didn't want to have anything to do with their memorial book after the war. What use to relive all the loss. But when burdock's page came up I had to mention him showing me the grave and I felt compelled to tell them about maizey lee donner, former owner of the mockingjay pin, and how sid loved the stars. Before I knew it, they all came tumbling out family tributes, friends, comrades in arms, everybody, even my love. I finally told our story part. This is where I lost it.
Speaker 2:Okay, a few days after that, katniss showed up with an old basket filled with goose eggs Not to eat, to hatch. I raided a few different nests so they can breed all right, never mind that we had roast goose for dinner. She's not an easy person. She's like me, peeta always says but she was smarter than me or luckier. She's the one who finally kept that sun from rising. Pita fashioned some kind of incubator and when the eggs hatched, mine was the first face those goslings saw. Sometimes they just graze on the green, but on fine days we've been known to wander on over to the meadow.
Speaker 2:Lenora dove likes it best there and I'm content where she's content like the geese. We really did mate for life. I'm not sure how much. I'm not sure I'll be here in the old there before much longer. My liver's wrecked, and I only dry out when the train's late. I drink differently these days, though, less to forget, more out of habit. When my time comes, it comes, but I have no idea when that will be. I know one thing though the Capitol can never take Lenore Dove from me again. They never really did in the first place. Nothing you could take from me was ever worth keeping, and she is the most precious thing I've ever known. When I tell her that, she always says I love you like all fire, and I reply I love you like all fire too oh my god, suzanne, what are you?
Speaker 1:doing. Oh my god, I'm gonna grab my copy of mockingjay really quick, because please do. I'm pretty sure at the end of mockingjay, from katniss' point of view, she talks about the geese. So I want to see if we can line it up.
Speaker 2:That would be crazy. Please do Okay. Hold that thought. Oh my god.
Speaker 1:The way that he just doesn't give up on their love. He's just like there's only one person. For me that's yeah, like that's tough, um, okay, okay. So her, her, the way that she ends, this is which, I I wonder, is also interesting because it's like. Also, she's so much like hamish.
Speaker 1:I got the idea from our family's plant book, the place where we recorded those things you cannot trust to memory. The page begins with the person's picture, a photo, if we can find it, if not a sketch or a painting by pita. Then, and most careful handwriting, come all the details. It would be a crime to forget lady licking prim's cheek, my father's laugh, pita's father with the cookies, the color of finnick's eyes, rip what's in. I would do with a length of silk bogs pre reprogramming the hollow. Rue, poised on her toes, arms slightly extended like a bird, about to take flight. On and on, we seal the pages with salt water and promises to live well and to make their deaths. Rue, poised on her toes, arms slightly extended like a bird, about to take flight. On and on, we seal the pages with salt water and promises to live well and to make their deaths count. Hamish finally joins us, contributing 23 years of tributes he was forced to mentor. Oh no, additions become smaller. An old memory that surfaces, a late primrose preserved between the pages, strange bits of happiness like a photo of Finnick and Annie's newborn son.
Speaker 1:We learn to keep busy again. Peeta bakes, I hunt, hamish drinks until the liquor runs out and then raises geese until the next train arrives Fortunately, stop. The geese can take pretty good care of themselves. We're not alone. A few hundred others return because, whatever has happened, this is our home. With the mines closed, they plow the ashes to the earth and plant food. Machines from the capital break ground for a new factory where we'll make medicines. Although no one seeds it, the meadow turns green again.
Speaker 2:I need to buy a gun.
Speaker 1:I need a gun. I need a gun, no. So from her perspective, it's like, okay, he finally opens up, he joins us. That tidbit is we're fitting together all the for 23 years, the yeah, the tributes that he mentored? No, he doesn't mention that, though. The thing that sticks out to him is like wanting to open up about like her parents and lenore, yeah, yes, and like lenore, his fellow tributes during his games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not okay, I'm amazed by. I think there are just some authors, like writers, who have an expansive mind for their world, and I truly believe, like I feel like some people like retcon, a little, like some authors will go back and live in their world and be like, oh, let me kind of fit this in, you know, but they didn't have I feel like she actually had this in mind the whole time of what haymitch's backstory was, maybe not like the finer details, but I do feel like this was genuine and I mean, this thing was real you know, like I feel like that's there is like yeah, that is so much part of his dna and like his trauma like she had to think about okay why is he?
Speaker 2:why, why does he?
Speaker 1:have like there's, there's tons of other victors that we meet right throughout the series, but like, why is his?
Speaker 2:like, like this way, and he has no family, he has no friends, like he wants to push people away right because he thinks it's his fault and he doesn't want to endanger anyone else.
Speaker 1:Totally yeah, I think the thing that kills me is honestly the first couple chapters when you see him before the games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was just a baby. He was just a kid. That was tough as well.
Speaker 1:So now we have the movie to look forward to. Can't wait, thank.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 1:We'll be sad.
Speaker 2:Cast someone great for Hamish, because it's a tough role. Do you think be someone too hot?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, no, no, but like they have to be soft yes, yes, like they have to be a kid.
Speaker 2:I don't know. They have to look like a kid anyways. Five stars loved it crushed it couldn't be 19 of them Right now.
Speaker 1:Give me a Plutarch backstory as well. Oh my gosh, please A Plutarch backstory. I just feel like it would fill in a lot of the cracks, just like following his life, from like his first games to the events of Mockingjay. Yeah, that's what I want. Do it, I dare you. Or maybe just unleash until, like he becomes the head game maker or something.
Speaker 2:Okay, but it hasn't been that long since the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, because we covered that during this life of this podcast, so we did not cover it when it came out. Oh, we did a movie, the movie. Oh, we did a movie, the movie. The book came out in 2020, so it might be, might be well into our 30s before we get the next, but you know she always is like I have something to say about the world.
Speaker 2:Well, the world is not doing good, so there might be more to say yeah, there might be more to say please, uh, we need to continue to, but the we do have the movie to look forward to, so I can't wait. Loved it, loved it, loved it oh man all right, that was a lot, have you read anything else of note recently a lot okay, I can keep it short I have a few.
Speaker 1:I have a few things to say as well. Okay, good, okay good.
Speaker 2:This is just gonna be a long episode, it's fine, okay, really, really quick to circle back to something I mentioned last episode. I did finish the roommate risk by Talia Hibbert. I loved it. If you are on my train of bring back men who yearn, you gotta read this book.
Speaker 1:I told you. Rahul yearns harder than anyone has ever, basically one of the best mailman characters of any book ever yes?
Speaker 2:the answer is yes. It's friends, lovers, it's like forced proximity. He's adorable, he, uh, but the yearning is crazy. He like goes crazy with the yearning. So, anyways, really love it. I mean, I love talia hibbert, but this is like. This is up there for her. Even so, I just wanted to close the loop on that because I did finally finish it. Next, swipe I read famous last words by jillian mccallister okay, I literally just got it from libby okay, I won't spoil anything, but, um, this follows a woman.
Speaker 2:God, you know how bad I am at these names and I even pulled it up camilla and zach's gonna read it too, and we can all do a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we should, we should, okay, anyways. It follows camilla. She has a mom, as as many of jillian mccallister's protagonists are. She is married and her life falls apart, basically one day when her husband is accused and does seem to be committing a like act of terrorism, where he has taken three people hostage and is like, uh, in some kind of standoff with these people oh, classic, this is gonna be great.
Speaker 2:That's where it starts it. She's just so good. This is why we need more women writing like thrillers, because this is like not the typical domestic thriller where, like the wine mom is delusional and going through a divorce and like no one believes her that's like such a stereotypical woman protagonist in these kind of books but like she just writes so well where it's like, yeah, this is this massive mystery where, like her husband's doing this thing, she feels like I do, I even know him. Like who is he? It's my whole life, lie, all these things. But it's also like a love story and it's about being a mom and there's like her sister's involved, so there's like sibling dynamics. Um, uh, there's a time jump. It's about like, can you ever really know someone? I don't know? It's just a great. It was a great mystery. I really liked the conclusion. I liked the story that was going on here. I liked everything about it, so I really recommend it. I don't want to spoil too much, but I'm excited.
Speaker 1:I have a plane ride on a long play ride on sunday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I I'm waiting for this walk-in book I feel like you can crush it because it's not super long either and it's really fast-paced and, um, I really liked it. So my last thing this is again. This is this is this is for a niche audience within an already niche audience. But I had to circle back on this because, okay, a year ago I read the prolific fan fiction the Cadence of Part-Time Poets and at the time I was uncertain about it, and so I knew in my heart, as I talked about on that episode last year, that I would have to reread this one day, because, as I mentioned when I first yapped about this, there's like this bit of foreshadowing in the beginning that really put me on edge for the whole entire story and I didn't realize that it was kind of foreshadowing for something that doesn't even happen in this, because there's a planned part two, whatever.
Speaker 2:Anyways, I'm rereading it now. I told myself, emily, be chill about this, you'll read it in, like it's I'm not kidding, it's longer than the Bible, as you guys know, maybe if you've been here a while. So I was like, just read this like a chapter at a time in the background of your other reading. Did I do that? No, I'm almost done. In a week. I have almost read it in a week.
Speaker 2:I'm like 90% of the way through. I just want to say, though, if what I said last time put you off of reading this, let me be a beacon from the future Read this. I know that it sounds really long and honestly, I think, even if you don't like Wolfstar, you should read this. It's like the I. Now that I know the context of the foreshadowing, I was able to ignore that and just enjoy it. It's like a coming of age. It's about rock and roll. It's about growing up, figuring out who you are, friendship, falling in love for the first time, getting your heart broken. There's so many things. Also, what I wanted to say about this.
Speaker 2:This occurred to me as I was reading. There's a scene where Sirius and Remus come out to James and Lily and they are sharing their relationship with them, and I was like you know what? This is kind of like the anti-Heartstopper, because I feel like in Heartstopper, which is why I think all young people should read it. Everyone reacts like a really amazing way to everything all the time, like every conversation is always handled the best and like people are just responding to things in the exact perfect way. This is like the anti that, because the scene is like exactly what it's to.
Speaker 2:I've read it like five times because it encapsulates what it's like to stand in front of a mirror and practice saying something to someone that you're really nervous about, and then you get there and you just everything falls to chaos because you, even though you've rehearsed it a million times, like you can't get it out the right way and they don't understand what you're trying to say, and like the misunderstandings and miscommunications that happen in real life. So I feel like I don't know, it's just like a coming of age story where the worst possible thing might happen all the time, but it's happy, it ends in a happy place, and I think if you just want to read about, you know, people falling in love and a boarding school and what that might be like in the 70s, and like music and love, then you should read this that's why I have started the cadence of part-time poets.
Speaker 1:I think when I started it it just wasn't in the right mood. Yeah, you gotta believe you.
Speaker 2:I trust you. Yeah, and it does end in a good place and it's so funny, like just so many laugh out loud moments. Anyways, I've been having a great time again. I should have known that, like, don't lie to yourself that you can be still about something, emily, because you can't. But I did think like I've already read this, so what? But I'm sorry I couldn't do it. I've read it faster than I did the first time. So, anyways, I just think, yeah, I wanted to come back on here and correct the record because I was. I was like I don't know how I feel about this, and now I'm like, no, I'm gonna make this my entire personality now.
Speaker 1:So, thank you, encouraged you know what, live your truth thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:I have also read some bangers recently um.
Speaker 1:March has been a good month for reading yeah okay, I will start with a book I am feeling evangelical about, which is Careless People by Sarah Wynn Williams. This is a book that is a memoir from one of the former top brass at Facebook. She was the director of international global policy, or something like that for Facebook. The director of international global policy or something like that for facebook. Um, it's like a tell all memoir about her time at facebook, from like 2011 to 2022 or something like that. Um, there, the tea is absolutely piping. Um, it's just so much crazy tea, so much information and really makes you think about like this is a great book for. Like, if you're already feeling like hatred towards Mark Zuckerberg, sure, then like this will further confirm that for you.
Speaker 1:But it was really well done, really well told. And she also talks about it from the perspective of somebody who joined Facebook because she thought it was going to be a global source for good in the world and the way that it would change the world. And then the decisions made by leaders slowly over time that led it to becoming one of the forces for evil in the world. Her experience with sexual harassment so big warning there. But like that happens a lot. Like she's working at facebook pre me too, and then like during me too and after me too. Um, it was really, really, really good. I just can't even cap like it was. Yeah, it was really good yeah.
Speaker 2:I had seen this before. You mentioned it, like on blue sky or something. I was like, oh, that's interesting, and then you said something about it to me.
Speaker 1:So well, yeah, and there's like this whole thing because Facebook is trying to shut it down and they got a federal judge to like put a temporary injunction on it where she can't promote the book right now. Yeah, which is crazy, which makes me just don't tell me what to do. It makes me want to do it even more.
Speaker 2:I know, yeah, like I'm going to read this even harder, I'm going to share this even harder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, anyways, I really really enjoyed it and it's like obviously just came out. It's really popular right now, so it might be like long waits to get it, but if you have Spotify premium, it's included yes, in your spotify premium if you want to do the audiobook which also recommends. The author is um from new zealand, so she's a kiwi accent um yeah, it's great, so highly recommend that.
Speaker 1:Um, I also read another really, really good book that you would really like, called Real Americans by Rachel Kong. This is a recommendation that's been going around my friend group it is about. It tells a story of a family from the perspective of three different generations, three different times in the book, and it's about a chinese immigrant family. Um, there is science element, there is like magical type element.
Speaker 1:Okay, it discusses like genetics and identity. What does it mean to be chinese? What does it mean to be Chinese? What does it mean to be American? What does it mean to have multiple identities? I don't even want to say more about it.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, it's, it's like a literary fiction, like it's here to say something. It's not so much plot driven, but there is a science fiction element which I think you would really like and it was just a really really good book. There is a science fiction element which I think you would really like and, um, it was just a really really good book. Also, like it's not told, like the story isn't told um, uh, chronologically. So like the first perspective is from like the middle generation and then the younger generation oh, interesting. And then the third is from the older generation. I kind of like that, um, and it's set like the middle generation, that's telling the story of Lily in the early 2000s, living in New York, and then the second is like in the 2020s and then after that it's the 2030s. It's a little bit in the future, but it's the older generation, so it's like the grandma interesting. It's really really good.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can't, I can't even say I just put it on hold. Yeah, I just put it on please. I mean like six months.
Speaker 1:I'll probably read it, so yeah, let me know when you get there. Yeah, um, and then my third book is shark heart. Did I talk about this on the podcast? You did already talk about it. Okay, yeah, then I will pick something else. I will pick the service Barry um, which is really short, by Robin wall camera. It's a really short read. That, um, did I talk about this in the podcast too? I think maybe you did. Did I already? Okay, then I take it back. I'll just leave those two. It was really, really good though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great, excellent, love it.
Speaker 1:So many good things to read. I know yeah.
Speaker 2:I will.
Speaker 1:I feel like this happens for us, like we have like nothing to talk about.
Speaker 2:And then, like I know, I was reading so many mid books and now I've been reading a lot of bangers, like you said, a lot of five stars, so that's been that's. Then you want to talk about them. So bad because you're like I want to influence other people to read these so they can talk to me about. I also wanted to add I actually won a Storygraph giveaway. Oh gee, I did not know this was like a real thing people want. So I won the book club for troublesome women, but what made me think of it as real Americans was a giveaway, I think. But I didn't win that. But, yeah, I'm excited they're shipping it to me, so I can't wait to read it Exciting.
Speaker 1:Also, in literally one month, we will have Great, big, beautiful Life by Emily Henry. I'm not ready for that, I'm so excited. Something to life by emily henry I'm not ready for that, I'm so excited. Something to live for yeah, forward to something for the girls to get ready to. I know.
Speaker 2:Thank god, thank god. We need more books. Authors if you're listening release more and more books because we really need them. So really need it guys like heavy, heavy on needing them.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really excited to read the jillian mccallister book that you talked about.
Speaker 2:Yes, you do a lot of good so good, so many good things it is. I'm so happy all right.
Speaker 1:Thanks for sticking through this long ass episode yeah, I hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Bye.