Reading Rewind: Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers

Heavy content warning for this episode, please listen with care! While we do not go into gratuitous detail in our recap, this book does contain references to many serious subjects. Proceed with caution & definitely don't listen to this episode around children! 

Today we're revisiting Redeeming Love and...we did not like what we read! 

Skip to the recent reads: To hear our letters to our future husbands following our fraught Redeeming Love discussion, skip to 53:11. Recent reads start at 59:33. 

Recent Reads: 

• The Shots You Take by Rachel Reid
• Why Can't I Just Enjoy Things? by Pierre Novellie
• Minor Black Figures by Brandon Taylor

Transcript

Cold Open: “This House Is A Horror Story”

Abigail 0:00

I think I'm gonna die in this house. That song was booming through my brain. Anytime she's in a domestic scene with Michael and they're in the and they're in the cabin and they're sitting in the wicker, the willow chairs. I'm like, I think I'm gonna die in this.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Like, this house is a horror story. It is a horror story.

Strong Content Warnings And Opt-Outs

First Reads And Fuzzy Memories

Hosea Allegory: Where It Breaks

Craft Problems And Heavy-Handed Theology

Cultural Impact On Christian Women

Plot Overview: Sarah To “Angel”

Dubious Consent And Forced Marriage

Abigail 0:24

Welcome to the redirect podcast. I'm Abyo Fletcher. And I'm Emily Rojas. The Redirect Podcast is the show where we're shifting the conversation back to books. We discussed themes from some of our favorite books and least favorite books. Those themes show up in our real lived experiences. On today's episode, we are doing a reading rewind to revisit the 1997 Christian fiction cult classic Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers. And if you can say that three times fast, uh before we get to that, if you uh love our show, we would love for you to support the show in a few simple ways. First, you can go on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave a five-star review. Not four, not three, but five stars, and let us know that you love the show. You can also follow us on Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikTok at redirectpodcast. We're back on TikTok, baby, for real this time. For real. And you can follow Emily on all platforms at Emily Rojas Reads. And you can follow me on TikTok at Fabigal11. And if you really, really love the show, you can share our show directly with a friend. Uh sharing our show directly with a friend is by far the best way to help us grow a community of book loving nerds. And where are we growing? And and if it wasn't for this community, we wouldn't be reading this freaking book. Yeah. This today I was hard. And it's like, oh, you're one book ahead. And I was just looking at that, thinking, like, you know, at what cost? I only I'm only gonna read maybe if I reach my peaks of last year, like if I get a hundred books this year, but now one of them has to have been this, and I could have read something else, and instead I was reading this. So this is for you guys, so please we did it for the plot. Send this to a friend that from youth group that you haven't talked to in 10 years, and you're like, remember when we were we were crazy and young. That being said, before you share it or even listen to this episode, I feel like we have to issue the strongest of content of warn warnings. Um this book is at the end of the yeah. So, but specifically, I want to say, if you and we'll do our best not, I mean, I don't want to describe any of the bad things happen in this book in detail, but the plot is very upsetting. So if if it like sexual assault, slavery, human trafficking, um child abuse, child abuse, um uh force sterilization, blood shaming. Yeah. I would say Oregon Trail. I would say, yeah, maybe skip it. We will do our very, very best for those of you who stick around to talk about this in a way that uh redeems some of the heavier content in the book, and we will not be relitigating things in super fine detail. Yeah. Because no one needs that. But there are majorly heavy themes in this book, and so that's your warning. Yeah. I also want to. Skip ahead if that's it for you, skip ahead to the end. You can hear about our recent reads. Yeah, we'll do I'll do a timestamp in the in the show notes. Um, I also want to say, like, if this book meant something to you and you don't want that ruined, like if you forgot what happens in the book, but you like have fond memories of it, like maybe also skip. This is not gonna be for you because while we do our very best to avoid talking about our thoughts before the show, yeah, it was almost impossible with this one. So yeah, we we've shared with each other that this was a tough reread for both of us. Um just know that if you don't want the glass shattered, we're gonna shatter it immediately. So that was some that was some early level setting. And then let's get into it. Here's what I want to know, Emily. Yes. What was your experience on your initial read of this book? When did this book come into your life? What context do you have? And how was the experience when you read it? Okay, like I really started to question while reading this if I had ever actually read this book. Because I have no I remember like I it's like I have always remember having read it. Like I know that I read it and that this is a book that I would have said at one point in my life, like, oh, I love redeeming love. And I remember like the concept of reading it, but then while reading it, I don't feel like I remember any of this. So I I know I was pretty young when I read it. I've made a TikTok about this, but I read this at a time where I was not allowed to read Harry Potter, which is disturbing to me considering the content of this book. Um, should not have been allowed to read this for sure. And um, yeah, I just like yeah, I would have said this was a foundational book for me, but I don't remember any of the plot having happened. So I'm I'm wondering if I did ever read it. Yeah, or maybe your body's keeping the score and you like tucked away somewhere dark. Um, exactly. I read this book my freshman year of college, so I do remember more appropriate, I guess. I was 18. Um, and but that being said, I didn't remember some of the finer points of this book. The thing I remember from the book was uh actually, I think more like the the allegory of Angel and Michael's relationship and Jesus and meeting. Yeah, yeah. Here's where I want to start, though. Yeah. That, like, there are many things about this book that didn't sit right with me. Yeah. But the main one is that we totally missed the whole point in the retelling of the story that is being made in the original text, which is the book of Hosea. So little Sunday school lesson for those of you who are not in, guys, messed up the way that we are. Hosea is a minor prophet in the Bible, in the Old Testament. It is a shorter book of the Bible when it tells the story of this guy named Hosea who marries a prostitute named Gomer, and she leaves him multiple times. But the whole story of Hosea is a metaphor for God's relationship with Israel, and Israel, like wandering in the desert, worshiping false gods, making golden calves, and it's a metaphor about God's relationship with an entire people group. And for those who believe in the New Testament, is often cited as like a prophecy for like Jesus redeeming God's people, humanity, yeah. The thing that just doesn't swear about this book is that this story is told like a post-Christ, and the main character is a Christian. Correct. And the person he is redeeming is someone who was sold into sex slavery as an eight-year-old. Yes. Completely against her will, by the way. Obviously, I mean, I'm I'm trying as hard as I possibly can to see how we made a connection between an entire nation of people worshiping idols that they made and eight-year-old sold into prostitution. Yes, that is my that was my. And I would actually like to say, I'm not gonna say that again because that's what she calls it in the book. She was sold into prostitution at eight year old at eight years old. You cannot be sold into prostitution at eight years old, you're sold into slavery. Correct. Yes, thank you. Um look, okay, let's let's let me let me agree with your original point first and then we'll get into that. I was thinking, how would I fix this book? That's what I was thinking about this morning. Yes, and if I was because look, I could go on a lengthy rant about Christian media and how Christians don't know how to make art. That's good. And so I won't, but that's my like I have always believed that, um, my entire life essentially. And this is a victim of it because in trying so hard to fit that specific Bible story allegory, like you said, in a different context where it doesn't make sense, um you have lost any nuance. And so the the author is forced to paint Angel, who, like you said, was sold into sex slavery as a child, as a bad person for doing what she had to do to survive those circumstances. And it is forced to paint Michael, who is representing God as a perfect man who never does anything bad ever, except for one brief moment where he scares the sht. But we won't get into that yet. But like it takes all the nuance out of the people, and also it beats the reader over the head repeatedly because the author doesn't think you're smart enough to understand the allegory. So it's forced to like put God's voice and the devil's voice in these bold italic letters throughout the entire book. And so it's like becomes not an interesting, like there's a version of this book. If you just take all that out and just do a straight allegory about a man who falls in love with a woman and repeatedly goes to find her, um, despite all these obstacles. Without the moral lesson. Yes, without the moral lesson, there's like no That's an interesting book. There's no nuance, there's no like artistic point of view. There's no like oh, because you're talking about God, you know, like no, that's it can't be. It's one thing oh my god, yeah. It is saying, yes, shocking. It is it is shocking, and I think on top of all of that, like not only is the theology really messed up, the the way this the story doesn't fit when you put it into this new shape, all this stuff. On top of that, the writing's bad. Yeah, the sucks. Yeah, it's boring as to f because like I was actually expecting to level set as well. I expected that this would be problematic, but I thought I would have fun. Like I thought I would have entertaining and I would like remember why I liked this, and I thought maybe there'd be like a fun love story in here that's like maybe cheesy or like stupid, but like fun to read. No, nothing about this is interesting, and I don't know what I was thinking, I don't know what people were thinking, loving this book. Uh there's better literature out there, and that's there's better Christian literature out there. Yes, there is if you want to go read a biblical allegory story, there are plenty out there, like fill your boots, you know? Yeah, like this ain't it, Chief. This, this ain't for so many reasons. But the thing is, the reason we're talking about it is that this book has had a chokehold on Christian women for decades. Yeah. And it's like sighted, oh my like redeeming love. Oh, yeah. It's so prolific in the that space. There's so many people who have read this book who were like cited as her favorite. I I I shared the TikTok that you made about the book, and someone commented on it and said, uh, I have a whole series about this on my TikTok, but um I this book uh made me cause me to stay in my abusive relationship. Oh my god. Yeah, that tracks. Like this book it would make you want to stay in an abusive relationship. That is the negative. That is the that is the negative power of this book. Yes. And um, yeah, so I mean, we'll we'll we'll talk about the plot, we'll talk about it in chronological order. I was actually thinking what might even be better is just kind of going through the plot, but talking really more about the characters and like their individual arcs, because there are crazy arcs for each of the characters, and I think that's even more compelling than the book. Agreed. The plot I just searched our goo, our messages for um our Facebook messages for Redeeming Love. You you sent a message, dude. Redeeming love, love it. And then Emma sent one. I'm reading Redeeming Love, so and I said, I'm not weird. Okay, that's all I got. You have to read it. I want to read it again. Yeah, it's freaking amazing. That's you. It's a Christian girl staple. Anyways, yes, I would love to talk about the different characters. Okay, let's just let's do plot overview and then we'll get into the characters. Okay. How about that? Great. Yeah, I love that. Here we go. Let's dive in. Cue my music. Okay. Story opens with a horrifying prologue. The prologue details the story of a young woman named Sarah. Sarah uh lives with her mom and they live in this little cottage, and one day her dad is coming to visit her dad, who she's never met because she's like eight years old and she's not met her dad, because her dad is her mom. Is her mom is her dad's mistress, and he wanted her aborted. Oh, there's also a big pro-life streak in this book. Yeah. Um, or anti-abortion streak in this book. Yeah. So um she hears this, she hears them over, she overhears them having a conversation. This starts like the trajectory of her life and the story of her life that she feels like a worthless person. Then uh her father eventually discards her mother. She's forced to go work at the docks as a prostitute and dies probably of a venereal disease. Then uh the remaining custodial adult in her life uh uh thinks he's adopting her out to this man named Duke, and when he does that, he's effectively selling her into sex slavery as an agent. And then he's killed in front of her. And then killed in front of her. Yes. Then she is repeatedly assaulted by this man and um then uh pimped out by him. And then when she finally escapes him, um she fies no other skills, no money, no education, so she is forced back into a lifestyle of sex work. Um, she lives in a mining town called Paradise. Yes, that's the name. Things are that on the nose through the entire book. That's correct. It's giving pilgrims progress. Um, sorry. So she's working at this place called Paradise. Guess what? Her new madam, her name is Duchess, Duke and Duchess. No relation, by the way. No relation. Just a coincidence. There's a bunch of mining guys in the town. Uh, this guy named Michael Hosea, yeah, on the nose. His last name is Hosea, comes in town. He's a vegetable farmer and he's selling vegetables to all right, a and I quote, Jew. Yes, really heavy on calling people Indians and Jews in this book. Book. Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm trying to skate through this. Okay, so I know he sees her, God is like, that's the one. And so he takes the money gold dust that he earns from selling his vegetables, which by the way, Francine Rivers couldn't do a singular Google search to figure out what a conversion rate would be, because multiple times throughout the book, she's like, an amount of money when he told them the price, a sack of dust, never even says what it is. No research done. Yeah, no. Uh he pays to visit her every night, but doesn't have sex with her, and he claims it's love at first sight. Mind you, he knows nothing about this woman. No. Uh, this is Sarah, by the way, and she goes by the name Angel. Um, finally, she then gets brutally beaten, and then he rescues her, heavy on the air quotes. And I think we have to do a pit stop here to discuss the dubious consent that happens at this moment. When he's like, I'm marrying you before I take you home. She's she's delirious. Yeah, she's just got the sh beat out of her. She's unconscious. And he's like, We have to get married. Yeah, and she has no clue what's going on. And she's having like a fever dream, she barely knows what's going on. They go to this pastor. Close to death. Yeah, she's close to death. And he's like, Do you take this man? And she goes, Why not? Or like, sure, or something like that. Yeah. She literally, this is non-enthusiastic consent. No, not not even close. Okay. Wakes up, she's at his f cottage, or out in the it's a one-room cabin, by the way. Yeah. And the bed is a wagon. The bed of a wagon that he literally covered and takes. Yes, okay. Yeah. Okay. Now starts a cycle that repeats multiple times of her running away, coming back. Well, running away, being chased down by him and brought back. Running away, being chased down by him and coming back. Throughout this process, um, she he basically parents her and teaches her how to cook and garden, and he indoctrinates her and reads her the Bible. And at some point, this other family on the road comes to live with them. He doesn't ask her if it's okay, by the way. No, and uh his brother-in-law, the brother the husband of his late sister, shows up. He like is extremely violent and mean to Angel. Then he like helps her escape back to paradise. But when he does, uh they hook up as his payment for taking her. And then we're non-consensual, and that's somehow her fault as well, by the way. And that's also her fault and not his fault, and no one ever gets mad at Paul for that. No, no one cares. Yeah. And um then also throughout this point, finally Michael decides that God is gonna let him have sex with Angel, and he like quotes Sonny Solomon to like get horny for her, and he's like, Come to me, my wife. Say my name. Come from the hills, and your breasts are like oil, or whatever, you know. Yeah, it's biblical dirty talk. Yes. He prays after sex and thanks God for the pleasure. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I really had to oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Horrifying it was it was rough.

Abigail 18:56

Oh, also, by the way, calls her a million different names all the time. That would piss me off. He's like, Oh, I'm not gonna call you Angel, I'm gonna call you Amanda, because that's a wholesome name. Yeah, he just makes that up. Do you know what Amanda means? Lovable. No, what does it mean? So he's like lovable. So he's like, you're not lovable. And basically the message is you're not lovable as Angel, you're lovable as my obedient wife.

unknown 19:23

Okay.

Control, Renaming, And Power

Sex, Prayer, And Zero Chemistry

Abigail 19:27

I have nothing to say. He calls her Turza when he wants to bone. Yeah. He calls her Mara when she's being bitter. He's just like hallucinating stuff. Like, yeah. They and by the way, they through this entire time, we're supposed to believe that she falls in love with him. Never do we get any glimpse of anything that would lead me to believe that on my own if I wasn't being repeatedly told aggressively that she's falling in love with him by the author. They like don't have any conversations that aren't like there's no chemistry. God will. God will change you. They've got nothing between them. Um, so I just want you guys to know that. Yeah. And this whole time she's like, I don't believe in God, all stuff. And then once she does start quote unquote falling in love with him, she finally tells him this horrible, brutal thing, which is that um she was she underwent forced sterilization by her enslaver when she was a young teen. And then decides that she needs to run away from him for the good because he deserves to have children and marry the neighbor girl who's 16. 16. This is once again, this is a fake story where she again, like you said, couldn't do enough research to to find out like an amount of money that would be appropriate, but we have to keep it like period accurate with the age of the girl being 16. That's oh, but she reaffirms multiple times from the book. I'm not a kid anymore, I'm a woman, and she's 16. And he's like 30. Like, why did I have to read that with my eyes? Why did you do this to me, Francia? That's what I would like to know. This is what I'm just saying. This is what I'm just trying to like, we gotta escape through this plot so we can talk about the characters. We're almost at the end. This plot is so horrific. So then she leaves, and then she's like, Oh, and then okay, this is important to say that this whole freaking time it's like talking about how she needs to turn from her wicked ways and like turn from her evil ways and live a different choose to live a different lifestyle. And it's like how you talk about how was she supposed to Yeah, how? What how do you suggest? No, really, it's and it's like everything painted with the same, yeah. Like her being in sex slavery at seven, like, is equivalent to like her being a prostitute, like all of this is painted with an equivalent brush by the author, not by the people, but like by the way you're supposed to read it, that she is doing bad things, repeat. And then she tells them, she's like, I haven't admitted everything bad to you that I've done, and she's like, I haven't admitted to you that I had sex with my father. Okay, by the way, like he's like mad too. Yeah, yeah. He this is when he like wants to kill her. Like he literally says that. I want to kill you. It's quite frightening. I was I think I'm gonna die in this house. That's that song was booming through my brain. Anytime she's in a domestic scene with Michael and they're in the and they're in the cabin and they're sitting in the wickered the willow chairs. I'm like, I think I'm gonna die in this like this is a horror story. It is a horror story, it gets so mystic. He literally says, like, I've thought about killing you right now. Um you go ahead. I was gonna say he's also this is a part where he's like, God forced me to be with you to strengthen me. Like, and it's like repeatedly says stuff like that, but this part it's really emphasized. He's like, This is so bitter, and I am being forced to be with you to strengthen me for whatever's supposed to happen to me next. And it's like you're just a tool of God, like you're not a human being, and it sucks. Like, it's so dehumanizing to angel, and yeah, and it's supposed to be romantic. I don't know. And then he's like, My life wasn't perfect. I uh grew up on a plantation, and my father owned slaves, and he then he goes, Two, and like major trigger warning here, okay. He's like, Yeah, two of the slaves ran away. Oh, my my father and mother took care of the slaves, and like he wasn't that bad. He was pretty good. He wasn't that bad, he was pretty kind, except for the time two of the slaves ran away. He went and hunted them down with dogs, killed them, but besides that, he was fine. Oh, and put their bodies in the slave quarters so that all the other slaves would have to look at them. Then told me that I could I had the right to the body of one of the teenage young women's slaves, yeah, and that I could rape her if I wanted to. But he really wasn't that bad of a guy. And she was tempting him. It was the slaves' girls' fault for tempting him. Literally, that's that is. But he resisted. That's not that word for word. That is word for word. She tempted me. And then he was like, but I was good because I said that I was gonna if he gave me the farm, I would release the slaves, and so he disinherited me, and then that's when I got on a covered wagon to come colonize indigenous land out in California and do genocide on American on Native American people. Okay, genuinely, by the way. Okay, okay. And here's the thing: this is when I was like, what in the Colleen Hoover? Because what in the colle all of you know what it is? It's just trauma dumping does not advance the thought in any way. Not at all. The whole horrific, violent story about enslavement, all it never moves the story forward at all. It's just supposed to make you feel like, oh, this is horrible. And that's supposed to be Michael's like flaw. Like that's something he did wrong. Oh, his flaw was that he was he resisted continuing to enslave people. Yeah. Mind you, he's supposed to represent God. So okay, yeah. I'm getting angry. Okay. I am too. So then finally, the last time she is in love with him, she decides I'm leaving, but I'd rather die than go back into prostitution because I won't be worthy of Michael if I go into prostitution. I can't betray Michael. I can't betray Michael. So she goes, blah blah blah. She becomes a cook in this thing, and then she like gets oh, she gets swept up by Duke again. Yeah. Her captor. Why not? Then she's like at a show and she's supposed to be like singing in front of these people.

unknown 25:53

Yeah.

Abigail 25:53

And this is when she like hears the voice of God. And I'm like, oh, God showed up.

unknown 25:59

Finally.

Plantation Backstory And Moral Framing

Running Away, Money, And Agency

Paul, Miriam, And The Age Gap

Susanna, Saving, And SF Interlude

Abigail 26:00

Finally, you know, that's the other thing. I'm like, what do you mean? God finally decided to show up. So the last possible side. She starts to sing Rock of Ages. And then this guy who is supposed to be really close to God, guess what his job is? He owns the largest bank in San Francisco. It's like this woman hasn't even read the f Bible. Because what the wealth is the wealthiest guy in town. The wealthiest guy in town. Yeah. Yeah. He is the savior figure. And the prostitute, who, mind you, like the Bible explicitly says we're friends of Jesus, is like the woman who is like need in need of rescuing, as if she's not like the closest to heaven as anyone could be. Anyways, it really pissed me off. And then she was like, I'm gonna start a home for women who are escaping prostitution. Which was nice. Which was nice. Yeah. And the character who makes out the best is like this the daughter of the guy who is the major banker in San Francisco. Yeah. Because she ends up running this school. Yeah. Paul ends up marrying Miriam, the 16-year-old. Gross, gross. He's like, you have to go get Angel. So like three years later, he comes to go get Angel. She decides to go back. She makes up with my he still hates her, by the way, till the last second, Paul. Like he still like still hates her. Maybe I'll just tell everyone she's dead. Angel comes to the Lord, and then she goes home, and then God heals her of being barren, and she has like 15 minutes. Dude, that pissed me off. Hallelujah. That part got me so angry because it's such an afternoon thought note. Her final redemption arc is that she was able to be a mother. That she was healed of her forced sterilization. That that is in no way in like it just made me so mad, on top of everything else that made me mad, because it's like you didn't have to do that. You could have just like made her and Michael content with not having kids, like, and understand that she could serve a different role. Your faith will heal you. Yeah. Now that she has enough faith, God will heal her. Yeah. And it's like that's crazy. Any faith and didn't believe in God, and it it's understandable. Because her life has been horrific, and no one's ever cared about her. And as soon as someone who was a Christian paid any attention to her, all they could do was tell her how bad she was for all the things that have happened to her. Correct. Get with it. Get a f for it, man. Yeah, so it was not fun. It was not fun to read. So where should we start? Who do we want to talk about first? I think we should talk about. Let's start, let's talk about Angel. Okay. Main character. Like I said, she's just not interesting. And it's the fault of the allegory because she's forced to carry the weight of sin and humanity compared to God. Um, but I did say the last time she ran away, I my note was um wait, hold on. She leaves again. I'm sorry to lose sympathy, Angel. Don't make me sympathize with the man. But then when he came out, he came back and then he like forcibly kissed her a bunch of times and was like, you do love me, you do. Then I was like, okay, I'm back to hating then. But she does, it does get a little old, the running away thing. Because it's like at a certain point, what my thing is like go she run away and be like, Good, good, then don't come back. No, what why'd she come back the last time? I'm like, you you figured stuff out. You made a life for yourself. You found this purpose. You are training up these women, you're doing a workforce development pipeline kind of thing. We're teaching like marketable skills, yes, we're all hanging out together. This is good. You live in San Francisco? Yes, be free. It's just yeah, it made me so sad at the beginning because she just kept thinking, like, I just want my own little cottage in the woods. I just want to be left alone and I just want to be free. And it just bummed me out because I was like, you know what? I think is actually I would also fix, I would take out the god stuff and I would give her a house, and I would let her and Michael organically fall in love without him trying to force her, and like maybe have her resist and pull away several times, but at least like have him give her a house, like he gave Elizabeth and John later, who just show up a house, give her a place of her own. That would have been a way better story, and like I would have had so much more sympathy for Michael if he was like, God's telling me to be with you, but I'm gonna give you your space and I'll let you come to me, and like I'm gonna be here for you. But it just made me sad because you just kept being like, Oh, I just want to like a place of my own. That's all I want. I just want the money that I'm owed for my years of prostitution, and I'll just buy a small house and I'll just be by myself, and that's all she wanted, and like she never gets it's like that TikTok sound that's like, and I never got to go to Paris. I never she's just gonna have 27 kids. Well then the thing is, I think, and this leads us to Michael when Michael comes to get her from Paradise, I don't figure out if it's the first time or if it's the second when he first rescues her or she runs away the first time because she's like, I'm gonna go get my gold and I'm gonna build a life for myself. And he he rescues her from there, or he kidnaps her from there, and he doesn't try and get her her money. That but I was like, No, I think that he doesn't care about that. It would have been better if he was like, give her the money she's owed. That would have been romantic. Yes, he does not do anything romantic in this entire it would have been romantic if he was like, No, you need to give her her money. She worked hard for this, she earned this. Yeah, but instead he's like, No, no, I don't want her to have that money. Like, she's not we don't need that. Instead, we'll sleep in my wagon. We'll sleep in the barn, dude. When he made her sleep in the barn so that Elizabeth can John could sleep in their house, I was so mad. And we're supposed to believe she's like so happy with this. She's like, Oh, we're having sex in the hay. Like, okay, okay, girl. No, you're being up by so bad. Oh my gosh. So, um for angels. Uh Michael is just the most self-righteous, um, just non-comprehending, insensitive boar. I just do not. And I'm sorry, but like, how is she like she does eventually become sexually attracted to him? And I just don't know. It's not there, it's not in the text. What would you do if you were having sex and in the middle of it your partner was like, God, thank you, Jesus. Thank you, God. I almost texted you that. Oh, God, thank you for this. Thank you, God, for the pleasure. It's crazy. I don't get it. Look, look, I get it, I get it. Like, but it's just so heavy-handed. That's the problem. Everything if if it hadn't been everything, it just it's everything about Michael. No, is that? But I think even so, you know what? If you really feel like you need to do a prayer, I think you you either do it silently or you you throw it up afterwards, you know? Right. Like forcing her, like, but like you're the first time we do sleep together. He like forces her to say his name. And it's not in the hallway. It's like, it's like in a weird way, and it's just it is not like in a say my name, say my name. No, it is it's like he's trying to like will her to love him. Yes, and that's what he will love me too. Because also he's like, I've done all of this for you. I kidnapped you against your will, I forced you to marry me, I brought you to the shack. He's like, and I've owed your love. And she's like, not feeling it. You will fall in love with me. Yeah, yes, she's not feeling like shocky about this too. Like, I assumed they would not sleep together until she fully fell in love with him. No, because that's what he says from the beginning, right? Yeah, but but no, but mind you follow through with that. Mind you, the allegorical character that's supposed to represent God decides to move on that. Yeah. Decides it's been long enough. He's like, ah, she will get there, so that's good enough for me. Oh wow. Hello. It is crazy. Okay. Other characters. Let's talk about let's talk about Paul. I would love to talk about Paul. Actually, wait, really quick, really quick though. We have to talk about this before we move on from Michael. The fact that Michael is like, here, you can wear my sister. You can wear my dead sister's clothes. My dead sister's clothes. And when you do, I'm gonna get so horny for you. It's weird. This was the horniest book. Unnecessarily. Yeah, and like no payoff. Like they were just like, he was just like, I I desire you, the burning, and it's all like biblical horny. Not sexual tension, yeah. Like pure horniness. Like, there's a difference, and like there's no tension here. He's like, give me that balm of Gilead. He's like, Depressed are like two drops. Like, it is so it's so weird. I mean, they have like one book and it's the Bible, so maybe that is like you know. I don't know. God, imagine get this guy on, get this guy on some alley hazelwood. He would blow his mind. Yeah. He would go into orbit. Let's talk about Paul, please. Do you want to know the first thing I did when Paul was introduced? Is I went to archive of our own dots. Okay. No, yes. Yes, surely, someone has written Paul slash Michael. Paul, Michael. Paul and Michael were meant to him. They were meant for each other. That was more a romance between those two than anybody else in this book. Emily, Emily, Emily, Emily, Emily. My exact note was. I'm so glad it wasn't just me. My exact note was. Um, A03 fix it, Paul and Michael. I want to I want to fix it tag. Paul and Michael should have been together. And they what in Michael is like, this is my head canon. Michael is like shutting down his sexuality so bad. Yes. And to deal, to cope with this like unnecessary pain he's putting himself through, he decides that he needs to enslave a blonde woman and like force her to love him and play wifey for him. It's okay. You guys can just be together. We don't have to make this angel's fault.

unknown 37:16

Yes.

Why The Allegory Fails Narratively

Obedience Politics And Marriage Tropes

Abigail 37:17

Literally, my first note was where is the Paul slash Michael slash Vic? I'm going to write it. I swear to God. Uh this is my Paul. This is Paul's mind. Don't write it. Uh Michael, Michael is so hot and such a good listener. Why did he have to get married? Paul is so worried about his brother-in-law. He's like so literally, he thinks in his mind, like, Michael's such a good looking guy. Like, any woman would be into him. He's got these like beautiful broad shoulders. Like, what is this? He he is like so he's like, oh, he's you know, he deserves so much better than you. Or he he was like pulling up on his wagon, he was like, I was really looking forward to just spending time with you and not with your wife around. It's gay. It's it's gay. It is it's homosexuality. Yeah, yes, correct. Um I don't know if you're not and I don't know if she meant this, but sometimes it's there, it's there in the text. The characters are sometimes beyond your control. Correct. And these characters are gay. Like, nobody thinks about how hot Michael is as much as Paul does. That's all I'm saying. And I which by the way, I don't think Michael is canonically hot. Like, in my mind, you know, oh my god. Do you know what Michael gives? Flip Colton Underwood. Colton Underwood play Michael Hosea in the biopic. Press sexuality, stalk stalking, stalking, wall jumping, yes, harassment. Michael Hosea would, in a fit of rage, jump over a wall. He would. He'd be like, I'm gonna murder you. No, and then he's gonna have to have a restraining order put on him against um against. I wish she would. Just like Colton had one put on him against Cassie. And then we end up with the age gap love. I mean, truly, it's right there. Michael Josea walked so that Colton Underwood could run. I'm really glad you said that. Um, Michael's gay, Paul's gay, and I want you guys to know there is no fan on A03. Redeeming love, who? Angel? Well, Angel, I don't like having sex with men. Well, no, I was gonna say, oh girl, at the end, the banker guy's daughter. Oh, Suzanne. Yeah. So come on, Susanna. Susanna McGamberg is gay as f Susanna was like, I was going to sorry. She is a bush muncher. Okay, like she literally is like, I don't want to get married, instead, I want to own a boarding house with a bunch of recovered prostitutes, a bunch of baddies, and I'm gonna teach them workforce development skills. This is my dream life. No, my dog. She literally was like, Susanna was like, I was gonna go with my fiance to. To spread the gospel to Native Americans in the West. But he got stabbed to death. So now I'll just go to this board. That is such an unnecessary plot. Be missionaries. What in the Colleen Hoover? Anyways, um, yeah, there is no Paul Michael fix. Um, I'm not gonna write it, but there should be. It should ex- There should be. Um, and that's my fault for for reading into everything. Um, okay, but yeah, Paul in the end, he marries Miriam. She by the way, the way they get together, Miriam, I can't even talk about her. She's 16, mind you. She goes into Paul's house. Miriam met exactly one man in her life, and that's Paul. Correct. One single man. Yeah. She's like, yeah, no, this is definitely the guy that God has for me because he's the one I've met. He's the one, he's here, who's not related to me and not married to um Angel. And I have I currently live in a one-room, uh, a one-room cabin with my parents and my seven siblings. So yeah, where I have to take the little kids for walks so my parents can bone in her one room cap. Yeah. It is absolutely insane.

unknown 41:15

Yes.

Writing Quality And POV Issues

What A Better Version Could Be

Abigail 41:16

She goes to Paul's cabin. Oh my god. Uninvited. He has made it clear he doesn't want anything to do with her because he's in love with her and he's like trying to restrain himself, allegedly. She goes in there and she's like, I'm gonna basically seduce you until you agree that you're in love with me and we should get married, and we should do this the right way. Because if you like give in to your temptation, then I'm tempting you. I came here to tempt you. And if you give in, you're gonna feel bad about yourself. So let's go get married right now. Dad's got a book of common prayer. He's gonna do the same. Which, by the way, what are like the marriage rules? Like, what counts as marriage? You know what I'm saying? I don't think any of these people are legally married. Like, obviously, it's a wild west. She didn't do any um, she didn't do any research at all on anything. No, but we had to make Miriam age appropriate like time period accurate 16 and ready to get married. That's what makes me so mad. Nothing else is realistic except this. Like, I know you could have just made her 18 at least. It's out of control. Okay. Anyone else you want to talk about? Um I'm choking. You know, I didn't really mind Elizabeth that much. Um I liked her and John actually a lot. That's Elizabeth. Yeah, go ahead. I said I think I'm developing Stockholm Syndrome because I did actually enjoy Elizabeth and John in a had to be fun relationship. I mean, Elizabeth essentially, she I mean, she learns she learns about um Angels Past and she doesn't she doesn't judge her for it at all. Yeah, like she's nice, maybe the best like person in the book. Like she's just like, okay. And then she's like, Hey, will you let me deliver my baby? And she's just like, she's just she's chill and cool. I mean, she's got a lot going on. She's got like 27 kids. Yeah. I did I didn't mind her at all. Um, yeah. To me, what's interesting that I just couldn't quite connect like how Francie Travers was imagining. So at the beginning of the book, she's when he's like, I'm Michael, Michael Hosea, and she's like, What kind of name is Hosea? And he's like, prophetic. Yeah. That's her last name, by the way. In the Bible, Hosea marries a prostitute, just like I'm marrying you. And then in the in the Bible, she runs away multiple times. I'm like, okay, oh, I'm trying so hard to like galaxy brain this, but like Michael Hosea in the book, what is he prophesying? Right? He's just living out a story that's already been told. That's why I would cut that out, right? Like, yeah, there's no there's no meaning to the story that they're living. He's prophesying to us. We're supposed to read this and be like, oh, we should be Christians now. That's what we were supposed to do. That's not even the point of the book of Hosea. Correct. Right, correct. That's what I'm saying. But the point of the book of Hosea is to teach people this different dynamic between God and God's people is that God cares about you or like loves you, has wants to have an intimate relationship with you. Whatever. Take like do without what you will. That's just like the point. That's like that's like the common interpretation of the story of Hosea and Gomer. So I don't get what this was supposed to do. I don't either. That's why I would take it out. That's what I'm saying. And this is not like a Chronicles of Narnia. You don't need Aslan praying to God because Aslan is God is God. Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say. I just don't get it. If you're smart, like C.S. Lewis, you just make at make Michael Hosea God. Don't make him pray to God. Put us and again, put us in a different reality where the story of Hosea hasn't already been told. Right. Like, just don't mention that at all. Make it an allegory. Do an author's note that say this is an allegory for the story of Hosea and Gomer. Please go read that Bible story because it's important and whatever. But it's so like pounding you over the head with the Jesus thing that it can't feel. And like, I don't know. I just I it's again my rant about why Christian media sucks, is because it's it's like going straight towards a purpose instead of like doing an interesting examination of what it means to like be a person of faith. And like again, a version of this where Michael's not being told by God, where he just loves her and he doesn't have that's what it's like it's not romantic because Michael believes he's being told and he believes that and he believes he can't disobey that, and he believes once he forcibly marries her that he's married for life, and so it's not romantic that he chooses to keep going after her because he thinks he's doing what God is making him do. And right, so then it's in the bundle story, it's like God, you know, we're supposed to believe that God is choosing to love his people, right? Right? God's making God love his people, right? Right, right. So that's why it doesn't, it just doesn't make any sense. Yes, like on a very basic level. What the book did do was teach women, was modeled to young Christian women, yes, that romantic relationships should look like this really fed up thing where you are supposed to like obey and like listen above all else, and that like your husband knows more than you, and your husband is like smarter than you, and you shouldn't trust your instincts, yeah, and then you are responsible for things that are done to you against your will. Yes, and that's the message. The list goes on and on. Oh, like there's a scene where um, you know, they see surprise Elizabeth with a house on their property, but like her husband keeps telling her they're gonna go to Oregon, and so that she's like all pissed off because she's like, I don't want to go to Oregon. Oh, oh, oh. This piss like and but it's like, yeah, you have to obey your husband and you don't get all the information, you just have to go get on the wagon. And then like they just trick her and they take her to their property that they've been secretly building. Oh, and by the way, buying a property and building a house without even telling your wife about it. Yes, and it's supposed to be romantic. No, like you at least have to ask, like, hey, do you like like you know she wants to do it? Yeah, like, hey, do you have any input on the cabin? Or maybe she would have had the thought, let's build more than one room.

unknown 47:13

Oh my god.

Palate Cleanse: Letters To Future Husbands

Parasocial Boundaries And Etiquette

Recent Reads: Nonfiction And Hockey Romance

Abigail 47:15

Like they built it themselves. You built it yourself, you had control over the rooms. You had control, you had full creative control over the building of the cabin. Dude, it's crazy. Also, when Michael and I'm so sorry, um Angel encounter the family on the road for the first time, and then he's like, we'll sleep in the barn, and he doesn't even ask her. Would it be okay with you if we slept in the barn? Yes, it would have sent me into orbit. It would have sent me into orbit. And I know it's like historical fiction, like that's what you're you're saying to us. We hear you. Um, I'm on the record, I hate that. Like, you know, I don't care. This is modern times. Give me a modern lens on historical fiction. But it's But no, but if you're not, but no, I think also if you're gonna go fully historical fiction and accurate, then make everything accurate. Yeah, that's right. Everything was accurate. No. Anyways, I did not enjoy the experience of reading this. Um it was not fun. Also, okay, last bone to pick. This book did the most jarring thing, which is it would be so it's like a third person, what is it like third person close when you're in their mind, but it's third person. So it's third person close or whatever, and you're in someone's mind for like a chapter, but then there will be like a sentence that's from someone else's mind. Just out of now, and the writing is poor. The writing is poor. And that's like these get published, dude. That's what I'm saying. The bar is on the floor for Christianity. If you want to write a book, if you have an an idea in your mind for a book, you need to write it because this kind of thing is getting published. Yeah, well, especially if you want to go through, like, you know, focus on the family. Well, who published this, you know, like one of those. But it's just frustrating because I just think about like I think if you're a Christian person out there, you should want more because this is not good. It's not good quality, and you should be demanding more, and like, you know, like this could have been better. There's a better story in here. I I stand by. I would take out the god stuff, make it a better allegory, give her her own cottage, and let them fall in love organically, and have him genuinely love her. You know, that's what I would do. Francien Rivers, like when I was in high school, I read this series of novellas that she has about the women who were in the lineage of Christ. So who are named in lineage of Christ. So she has like a book about Bathsheba, but sorry, Bathsheba, Tamar, Ruth, Mary. There's one more. Anyways, those she just does like a historical retelling from like their point of view. And who who knows? I may not even like them now, but like at least it made sense. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, at least it made sense. It was just like the story of their Bible story from their point of view, and like the sh you know, the reflection in their in their life of like Jesus being from their lineage. So um yeah, and I think like I I've feel sad that this is like the seminal text of like women's romance Christian fiction, because I don't think this is like a great depiction of love or of marriage or like of men. Like, I don't think Michael Hosea is an interesting man. I don't think like he exists in any world and of women because like angel sucks too. Like they're both just it's so weird, and I I just yeah, it's it bums me out that I probably read this as a child. Um and I'm sad because I genuinely came into this with an open heart and mind that I thought I would I thought I would have like a function. This would be so fun. Like, let's reread this, and I'm sure it'll be crazy. I've been pushing for this, yeah. Yeah, I mean, no, I'm I'm actually glad because this is a book that like if my if my niece, my 13-year-old niece, wanted to to read it, I would be like, I would tell my sister, I'd be like, avoid it's very, very heavy and dark. I mean, yes, she's reading like to all the boys I love before, you know, stuff like that on the link. But I would not have remembered, like if I if you had mentioned that, I'd be like, oh, it's probably cringy, but like I would not have said, I do not think a 13-year-old should I don't know like this is really. Yes, there's no point or payoff, it's just like you would have to the amount of like tags you warnings you would have to put on this if it was on A3, like there's so much in here that's like dead, dumb, do not eat. Yes, like it's really dark. I don't read anything like with this much dark content in it in my life, and just because she chooses to like fade to black on like the sex stuff, yeah. That's what you chose. Yeah, like fade to black on the incest next time. I don't want to read that, but versus like married couple sex. I feel like you could have done that a little more and a little less on like the my dad killed himself because I tricked him into sleeping with me. Like what? Anyways, um, good times. All right, thanks for letting me do this episode that I've been begging you to do. No, I think it needed to be done, it needed to be done, and now it is done. And I will never ever, ever read this book again. No, no. Oh, let me tell you, the embarrassment of carrying this to the checkout counter at the library. I'm like, my record is otherwise spotless. Like, I have such a good taste in books. It's the librarian group chat. You're in the you're in the librarian group chat. They're like, hey, just see what she was. She's just taking a hard right turn. Anyways, um, it's fine. No one cares, but I was bothered by that. Well, there you go. It is done. It is done. To palette cleanse after this horror show of a book. We thought we would take a trip back in time to the version of ourselves who perhaps originally read this book and uh dig into the archives and read letters to our future husbands. So I've been doing this little series on TikTok where I'm reading letters I wrote for my future husband to Zach, my actual husband. And um, it's been lots of fun, and we thought we would do one here today. Why not? You're way more prolific than me. I think I have like six. Uh, and I have a selection. Okay, you go first. But I'm trying to decide which one. I mean, okay, so this one, this one bumped me out. Like, actually, many of them. Yes, a lot of mine are very bummer too. I just don't read them online because they're so sad. Yeah, so but I feel like this sums up because I've been thinking a lot, like, why did we do this? And um, part of it is like books like what we just discussed, and part of it is like I think like the loneliness that is inerrant to being a child and like feeling in like a tween, a teen, like feeling misunderstood, and then like you have someone to talk to, so um and like this fantasy that one day you will be ultimately understood by this yeah, unrealistic person, right? You know exactly in a way that no human being could fulfill. Right. So this one is uh July 3rd, 2011. Um, also I did I destroyed a lot of mine. Like every time I would write one, I would throw out like two past ones. So that's because they would be like talking about boys I had a crush on, and then like I wouldn't have a crush on them anymore. I wish I had saved them. I just like saved them. Yeah, I was amazing for me. I would talk about the boys I liked in them. Yeah, and just keep I should have, but I threw out all of those. So, anyways. Dare you? Hey there. I'm writing this because of my always conflicting emotions. It's like Wait, did you put a date on this? Yeah, July 3rd, 2011. Okay. So continue. I feel like I have things under control. Dot dot dot. They spiral down, down, down. Or whenever I feel like I have things under control, they spiral down, down, down. Like I don't want a boyfriend, right? So I'm cool with that in all. First of all, no one wanted to be a boyfriend. Anyways, um, I'm cool with that in all. But then I start to feel all lonely and crap. Why? God knows, literally. I want to wait for a relationship, but I can't wait to marry you. Get it? I feel like I don't really have that one person I can tell everything to. I mean, I'm really close to a lot of people, but not one of them I can tell everything to. It's weird. I don't know. I'm just kind of confused right now. But I do take solace in the fact that somewhere you're there. Little do you know, it's one of the people you're really close to. Um and you have no clue how incredible that is. Know that it won't be easy with me as your wife. There will be bad days and we'll have fights, and it's going to be hard work. But I know myself, and I know that I will love you with all my heart, and that you must be pretty amazing if I married you, because I have really high standards. I can't wait to meet you. You may not know it yet, but God has an amazing plan for your life. I love you, and I'm praying for you, Emily Martin, age 15. Um, did you show that to Eric? Yeah, he ha he's read these. Uh so he thought they were funny. And this one I did say that these are the books our kids must read at some point, which I thought was topical. So I wanted our kids to read The Outsiders, To Kill a Mockingbird, Harry Potter, Sorry, Nerd Moment, LOL, The Bible, haha. And Karen Sharon Creech books, especially if it's a girl. Um, so that was my list of required readings for my children. That's really thoughtful of you. I do love Sharon Creech books. I think those are I mean, did you read any of her books? No, I didn't. Okay, they're they're gentle. They hold up. They hold up, yeah. Good. Um, yeah. So something did. I can't wait. Honestly, mine is relatable. Like mine is similar to yours, I think. This one that I just pulled. Um, so here we go. So uh this is September 26, 2010. I think I've come to the realization in my life that if someone, parentheses guys, is gonna like me, I want them to like me because I love God. I would rather be with a man who was but ugly, but love for the words and loved my heart than a hot guy who secretly loves himself and what I will do for him. Secretly, I think guys want the same thing. Girls don't know girls don't know that though, because TV and the media tells us that guys are all rude, crude, horn dogs. Women start to believe that, believe that, lower their standards, and end up with a okay, wow. Okay, so hold on. Women start to believe that, lower their standards, and end up with a bastard child from a man who love his wife enough to stick around. And guys think that all girls are slutty idiots because of trailer trash like Britney Spears and Daisy Duke. Women were created to be a companion to men and to be an image of beauty. I honestly don't get how they can be an image of beauty if they are shown bossing around their husbands on the 6 p.m. segment of TBS. Sorry, I'm just very passionate about this. My body is mine, God's, and yours. We could have stopped the line, right?

unknown 58:39

Yeah.

Minor Detail: Minor Black Figures

Abigail 58:40

When we are married on and nobody else's. Women need to remember that. And so do men. Love me. Period. P.S. If you can't tell, I am excited about this. No wonder I thought Redeeming Love was a great book. That's what I'm saying. When you read that, it's like, yeah, somebody who will never give up on you. There's nothing you can do that's gonna make him stop coming after you, as weird as he is, and this like perfect guy who never does anything bad except one time when he says he wants to kill you. Ugh, like whatever. Then like I I get like who's so consumed by you and like all in on you. I get why there was a version of me that thought that was compelling when I was a child. Now, adult women, I do have a lot of questions for you. Adult women who told me to read this book. You good? Yeah. So anyways. Alright. We have some other things to talk about. One of them being, did you see the news about Connor story and Hudson Williams? I did. I did see the news. Okay, I have lots of thoughts about this. I'm so excited they're doing this. I think it's great. I also need people to chill out on ruining their lives. I do need people to chill out. I need you to do that. I'm worried for them. Please calm down. Like, please. I'm begging you. Yes. Please don't ruin their lives. The true etiquette of seeing a famous person is like unless they're in a venue where they have like they're at a meet and greet, they're at you know, you see an artist at their concert and they're doing like you know, like they have come here to work to interf into interface with you, yeah, just leave them alone. Yeah, that's like the rule. You can't like unless they're at someplace where they have signed on to speak to you, you really need to leave them alone. I agree. And let's all chill out and stop. Also, like if you see, like, I saw someone the other day, well, she was doing like the is there a romance going on between Connor's story and Francois, whatever his last name is, and like all this stuff, and people are commenting, like, stop digging into their personal lives. And it's like, don't comment on those, don't watch them. Like, you're giving them engagement. If you see stuff like that, just don't, I don't know, just don't engage with it. We don't have to be like this. Come on, yeah, keep scrolling. I I agree. Yeah, do not sign to really big Peter Rivalry fans. Listen to us, we know what's kidding. Um, okay. Besides that, what have you read recently? What do you want me to go first? Um, okay, I read a couple of things. So, besides redeeming love, I uh read this book called Why Can't I Just Enjoy Things by Pierre Novelli. And it is nonfiction, but it is um written. Pierre Novelli is a comedian who as an adult was diagnosed with autism. And so he talks about his experience getting diagnosed with autism as an adult, common things that autistic people experience, um, while also underscoring the fact that not all autistic people, the autistic people are not a monolith. Um I, if you have someone in your life who uh is autistic, particularly if they're like a level one, have like level one autism, um, this I think was a helpful book to um understand more about other people, like if someone in your life, like a spouse or a friend or a loved one, in like a non-cone kind of more of like a funny, like non-clinical, more narrative way, where he uses examples from his life and funny anecdotes and stories. Um I listened to the audiobook and uh it was pretty good. Um, so I just thought it was informational but also enjoyable and a really good support. It started some good conversations with me in my life um with my husband who has autism. So um, so that was great. I really, I really enjoyed that. And I also read The Shots You Take by Rachel Reed, um, which uh I got from you. And um I did like it. It's so different from some of the other books she's read or written because the two main characters are older, they're like post-hockey retirement, they were like former uh roommates and best friends who were like hooking up, but they were like, We're not gay, we're just having sex. And uh they're journey to rekindle their relationship, and I liked it. I liked it a lot. I mean it was it was it was pretty good to me. I liked it pretty well. And if you um if you like the game changer series, you probably like this too. Although I would say like if you just come off of reading like He did Ravalry in the Long Game, this is gonna be like a step down in intensity, I think. Um they're older, like you said. Yeah, it's just a to it's a different pace, it's a different vibe, and also it's a less hockey focus. They just both happen to have been hockey players, but this is not like they're not actively in the NHL, it's not really it's just hockey adjacent. So I enjoyed. Anyways. Yeah.

unknown 1:03:58

Cool.

One Day In December Check-In

Abigail 1:03:58

What about you? How about you liked it? Okay, I read a book. I I want you to read it just so we can talk about it, but you know, is it minor black figures? It is minor black figures. Um I saw this on your story graph. And I saw well, I saw the beginning of your TikTok about it, but I was like, I might want to read this, so let me won't spoil anything, but um, I do want to talk extensively about it. Basically, it's it's real I I really have had a hard time describing it, but it follows um, so it's minor black figures by Brandon Taylor. I read his book Real Life, and I talked about it on here, um, which I really liked, but I loved this one. Um, and it follows so it takes place like the summer after COVID, like summer 2021, uh in New York. And so it's like people have like things are kind of opening back up, but there's still like that remnant of you know, some people are still wearing masks and political unrest. Um, and Wyeth is our main character, and he is an artist, and he is black and he's queer, and he had this like moment of like success in that time right after George Floyd was killed, where a lot of people were like really actively supporting black people and black businesses and black artists, and he's like sort of resentful of that. Like, that's how you meet him because he's like, Well, I didn't even try to set out to like make political art, it had no intention to be political, and all of a sudden it people were projecting this like political message onto it, whatever. And like that's kind of his whole deal is like he can't, he he doesn't know how to like see, or he wants to be able to see people and experience people and experience life outside of context in which they exist within. And he wants to control how everyone sees him, which is very relatable to me. Um, and many people, I assume. Um, and it's like this summer in New York, and he's realizing you can't do either of those things. People exist within a context, and you have to take them within that context. And also, I can't control how other people view me or view my art. Like, once it's out there, I can't control how people are interpreting it. Um, through all that, he meets a priest who is no longer a priest named Keating, and they meet outside of a bar and they start a relationship, and they have all these conversations about like what does it mean to believe in God? Wyeth grew up in the South, grew up very religious, he's not anymore, and then like Keating went through this experience during COVID, which I took a picture of him talking about it on the page because it was like him describing losing his faith, um, and also like leaving the door open of finding it again was really moving to me, and it's also complicated because like if they're gonna fall in love and if he's gonna decide to go be a priest, like if he hears God's voice again and he like feels the call again, he's gonna go back to being a priest. Um, so there's this like tension between them. Um, and then all through this, like Wyatt is working in the art world, he works to restore old paintings. Um, he also works at like this little museum. Uh it's like he has a couple different jobs in addition to like his artistic endeavors. So it's just really I Brandon Taylor writes like with such intention to detail and like specificity, where you're like feeling like he's just transcribing things that are actually happening. Like the people feel real, the setting feels real. Um, this feels like like sometimes you know how you read like a historic book and they'll be like describing the ton, and you're like, this seems like like I can picture it now, what people wore, what people, how people dressed, like what they did every day, how they talked. And that's how I feel about reading Brandon Taylor's writing book for like the modern day. It's like this feels like exactly what it was like you already know. You know, post-COVID. Um, so yeah, please read it. I I really I want to talk about it um uh in depth. Like it just really connected with me. I think a lot of like both Wyeth and Keating, who are like kind of the two characters at the center of the story, connected with me. So um I really liked this. Sounds really good. It was really good, it was really good. So that's all I've been reading lately, except for freaking Redeeming Love. Oh, also I'm halfway through one day in December. Okay, I was gonna ask about that. I can't wait to talk about that. But I'm not done with it. It's a book that you kind of you take a little slow. I'm really curious not to spoil anything, maybe skip ahead a few seconds, but so I'll just tell you. Skip ahead a few seconds if you don't want to be spoiled. But Jack just got in uh his accident, and um I'm curious how they're gonna make me want Jack and Louise to be together. That's where I'm feeling right now. Because right now I'm like Jack and who? I don't know. Louise, or what's that isn't that her name? The main girl, Lou. Oh, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I'm just curious. Um because I don't know. Like, I get they have this love at first sight moment, but like he's with her friend, and I don't know. So I'm very curious. Right. I think I was I was at the same point in that book, yeah. That point in the book. But it's really good. You you nailed it in uh recommending it to me. I'm really enjoying it. So um that's what I've been reading lately. I thought it was Louise or Louisa Lori. Lori. What the fine caller Louise? Yeah, Rory. Never mind. Yeah, it's um here you go. Yeah, keep me updated. I'm sure by our next episode I will have finished it. Which by the way, what is our next episode? Uh Bridgerton. Bridgerton, yeah. Yeah. So I have to read that too. You get to read it. I get to read that. I kind of don't want to read Weathering Heights, I gotta tell you. I'm kind of like, I might, I might not, but I will go see the movie. So maybe we don't have to do the episode. Okay, cool. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. Alright, guys. We'll see you next time. Bye.