Reading Rewind: Christy Miller Series by Robin Jones Gunn

For today's episode, we're crawling deep into the trenches of our youth group past and revisiting the Christy Miller series by Robin Jones Gunn. Let's discuss why we hate Todd, love/hate Bob and Marti, and question all of Christy's decisions. 

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Transcript

Cold Open: Teenage Naivety And Secrets

Abigail 0:00

When you were a teen, did you just think no one was ever doing anything they weren't supposed to do? Or were you just not invited? Or let in on the secret? Because we just were never invited or let in on the secret. So then years later, you find out everyone's been having sex this whole time. Everyone's been doing drugs this whole time and drinking this whole time. And just no one ever thought to invite you because you were f- Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. I'm Abigail Freshly. And I'm Emily Rojas. The Redirect Podcast is the show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes show up in real lived experiences. On today's episode, we are doing a reading rewind, rewinding it back to the Christy Miller series by Robin Jones Gunn. But before we get to that, if you are enjoying our show, we would love for you to support us in a few super simple ways. First, you can go on to Apple Podcasts and or Spotify and leave us a five-star review letting us know how much you love the show. You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok at redirectpodcast. You can follow Emily on all platforms at Emily Rojas Reads, me on TikTok at Fabigail11, and on Instagram at Fabigale Insta. You can find us at redirectpodcast.com where you can access our full library, our back catalog, and shop for really cool merch. But if you really, really love the show, we'd ask you to share our show with a friend because sharing our show with a friend matters more than any of those things and it helps us grow our community of book loving nerds. Yeah. And sharing a show with a friend can be, you know, online in real life, recommendations everywhere. So go do it. Go forth and prosper. Shout out to you guys. Um, so pumped. Also, uh, favorite books. We gotta maybe rework former favorite book in this case, um, you know, but lately we've been slogging through. Okay, I mean, as when we have we have really not talked about this pre-recording, so we're getting you guys are getting our fresh take. I would say, well, I've never read this before. Um, so I can't really compare, but I will say I feel like this did not age as terribly. Well, no, yeah. As some of the other reading rewinds we've done. Correct. Um, it's just it didn't age as terribly as Redeeming Love for sure. Um, it is, I I imagine you're looking at it with a very different lens. Correct. And I like as I was reading it, I was like, I was comparing it to the lens I would have had on it if I was reading this when I was 15 years old. I would have eaten this up when I was a teenager. Yes, yes. I would have loved it. Yes. So, um, so, anyways, I mean, this has been a highly mentioned, at least like in my comments and things on social media. People want to know if I've read the Christy Miller's Mary Christy Miller series. It comes up a lot. Um, I never I escaped it somehow. My husband didn't. Zach read the Christy Miller series. Yeah, he read Well, I was rereading it today and he was like chilling in the living room with me, and I kept on being like, oh no. And he'd be like, What? What's the T and then he would like his genuine reactions were so great because you know he forgot almost everything that happened. Me too. Yes, but then I'd be like, I'd be like, they gave Todd the money to take her to Disneyland. Oh my god, oh my god, don't even talk about it. I know, I know, I know. So um, yeah anyways, so that was fun. But what what was your experience reading these Christy Miller books? Yeah and also what are they? Yes, I'd love to share. Um, I will say these are probably uh I I read the about the author. These were first published in 1988, so it is a little before our time, or they were written in 1988. Either they were in the 80s, so honestly, it really gave the vibe to me of like more of my sisters and brothers' experiences with like youth group and Christianity. And you have an older brother, same age as my older brother, 11 years older than us. So I felt like I could relate to it in many ways, like the mindset, yes, but more like the technology, the little, yeah, the analog nature of like the the vernacular, yeah, that kind of stuff. Yeah. So, anyways, Chrissy Miller is a lengthy series of books with multiple spin-off series as well. Um, written by Robin Jones. It's like Sierra or something. Yeah, Sierra Miller. And those ones I remember way more. Um, there's like a scene and like a Sierra Miller one where they're like making out, and then the guy is like, We have to stop, or something like that. That tracks. I mean, the big thing I remember from those, which I we obviously we get the the beginnings of this in this series, we'll get to it, is um Doug and Tracy end up getting married and they save their first kiss for marriage. And Sierra watches their wedding. I remember this so vividly, and she's like, Oh, that's so amazing. Like it like converts her because she like sees this really romantic moment at the altar where they're anyways. Have you ever been at a wedding where the bride and groom did that? No, I've never been to one in real life. I would love to. I think that that time of my life has passed. How'd it go? Um, actually, my my father was performing the wedding. Oh, okay. Well, you don't have to comment on really if it's uh No, no, no. It was funny that I'm I'm saying that to like intensify the awkwardness of the situation because you know he was within like the splash zone. Please it was it was like it was pretty I mean it's it was pretty PG 13. Yeah, so don't do that. Um at least do it like the day before or something. I don't know, like practice. Or you know what? Like Ginger, or no, sorry, Jessa does it. Jessa, where she left. Jessica said it in private. Yeah, period. I'm I'm saving my first kiss for my wedding day, but y'all aren't gonna say it's not. Not in front of everyone. That's a good call. Yeah. If you don't want to do it, you were so right for that. Yes, she was correct. I remember that too. Anyways, you were so right for that. So off topic. They're published, though. When I read them, it was like this, and I think you read it as well, where it's all in one volume, but it's three different books. Um, and there are like, I think there are four volumes of Christy Miller in like high school, and then we get the college years, her and uh her boy meets worlds. Yes, she grew. So that that's part of why I loved it as well. Anyways, I vividly remember I was spending the night at my cousin's house, my cousin Emily and Alan, and I was in Emily's bedroom and I was sleeping on the floor, like on a cot, and I remember turning over and I was like eye level with her bookshelf, and I saw this blue book that said Christy Miller Collection Volume 1, and it called to me, and I was like, Can I borrow that book? Like it just looks really good as diaries. It's like a orc. And uh yeah, so I borrowed it from her. I think she had like all the four books, maybe, or she just I don't know. I ended up borrowing it from her and I became obsessed with it. I love these books. Um, there are yeah, I didn't recall many things from them. Uh so yeah, like I said, I remember the Sierra the Sierra whatever spinoff. And then I think like she has a friend Katie who ends up being based on the Katie girl who went to Africa. You know that girl? Kisses from Katie's. Yes, Kisses from Katie. I was just talking to someone about this the other day. Yes. So I think that's part of it. Like that girl maybe gets her own. I could be misremembering, but anyways, there's like several spinoffs, and you watch Christy Miller grow up, which is kind of nice. Like, I don't know. That's that's a unique. I mean, that's what I loved about watching Boe Meets World, isn't it? Was like you literally got their arc from middle school to the end of college. Yes. I mean, that is like Yeah. So the premise of Christy Miller is that she is 15, she lives in Wisconsin, Wisconsin, and her family owns a dairy farm in uh Shadow, Wisconsin, and she um gets to go for the summer to live with her like rich, uh childless dink and uncle, Uncle Bob and Aunt Marty, and they're like sophisticated and um so yeah, she spent the summer with them in like although I do want to say yeah, she goes to Newport Beach, that's where they live. Newport Beach is like red state California. I do want to point that out from both Uncle Bob and Aunt Marty. Respectfully. So yeah, I mean it was it was California. Yeah, but it was yes, like Orange County, yeah. And so she um her and uncle are like spiritual, not religious, and then like maybe vaguely Yeah, honestly, they're really cool. Yeah, basically we'll get to them. I mean, so we'll get to them. I have so much to say about them as characters, and I don't even think that Robin Jones gun meant to build them out in such rich, rich lives. I agree, but they are a rich tapestry of human beings. I can't wait to talk about them. Uh so she moves out there or she goes to spend the summer with them. Um, she is like struggling with like she's like also a Christian, she goes to church, but she doesn't really know like what does that mean to have a personal relationship with God and blah. And she meets these like actually she's kind of a brat at first. Uh she's a brat to be respectful. Yeah. So Aunt Mart, uh, her name is Aunt Martha. Yeah, but she goes by Aunt Marty. Yeah, she goes by Marty with an eye. Slave. Yeah. Marty Queen. Exactly. So slave her. So cool. Honestly, if your name is Martha and your last name is not Stuart, you should be going by Marty. That's really cool. That is correct. Yeah. Anyways. So yeah, she's a bride of hers for sure. She's like, oh my god, like Aunt Marty wants to take me shopping at like all of these places, and they want to take me to all these nice dinners, and I live on this hash by the beach. And I just like, I wish I had never come because like I don't know how to make friends on the beach. Like, okay, girl. Okay. Hello? You want to go about to Wisconsin with your never. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that do you want to just go plu like? Do we want to recap it? Yeah, we just gotta go. I think this is one of those we gotta go plop. So yeah, so she moves out there. She is a brat. Um, like when she first shows up, she's just first of all, Robin Jones gun loves to describe what people are wearing near constantly. Oh, I would not be surprised if Robin Jones gun has a bit of an eating disorder. Would you say? I would say because it was extremely jarring. Um, yes. You mentioned the people's thinness, the calorie counting, not even to serve up. There's no plot payoff. No plot for the way that she describes food and control and all this stuff. Um, it's just like casual. This is what was so jarring to me because um, so you're like, yes, Christy is repeatedly described as being slender or slim and tall and like thin, but then like Aunt Marty, like also is trying to like make her diet and is like, don't eat that, don't eat this, you need to eat salad, you you need to have smoothies. But then it's like that's like kind of vaguely insinuated to be bad, what Marty's doing, but not enough. And it's weird if you're gonna say, like, hey, that's bad, what Marty's doing, why are we continually describing Christy doing it as slim and like thin? And like that is her her descriptor. Like, almost everyone has like two or three adjectives that she'll repeat. Like the the mom has like gray hair and is frumpy, Aunt Marty has like a short dark blob, is sophisticated, unclean. And there's also multiple times where they like describe like they use disparaging, they describe like people who are like classless or like frumpy as like being fat in this book. So it's weird because it's like, hey, you're not getting the message across. And I do remember there's a scene in the second book. This is like not great, um, where uh Christy, I don't know if you got here, Christy's like, oh, I read in this magazine if you chew things 20 times, um, like you count your chews, that'll help you eat less and it helps you stay thin. And I remember reading that and being like, oh, I should count things 20 times. I was about to say, you would last an hour and be a side wear. They raise me. No, literally, yes. It's not like it's like I actually did that. I used to count how many times I should like this will make me skinnier. Anyways, uh, but anyway, she shows up and she's wearing a long floral print skirt and a pink two-neck top that hung to her knees. That was Christy's outfit upon arriving in California. She was like, I know what I should do. When I go to California, I should dress like in resort wear. I'm Amish. Anyways, uh Amish resort wear. So yeah, Marty is low-key cool. That was my first note about her because she's like, she's she's a she's not great, but she is cool. Like, I do think she is like she's cool in a boomer mom way where it's like, yeah, she's still gonna give you an eating disorder. Yeah, but but she's gonna spend a thousand dollars on new clothes for you and makeup and take you to get your hair done, and like that's kind of cool. And be like, here's how you get the guys, yeah. And yeah, but no, no, Christy hates her, she loves Uncle Bob in a way that is a little concerning. Okay, let's get to that. Let's talk about Uncle Bob. Why does she wanna f Uncle Bob? Dude. And why does Uncle Bob wanna f her? Why is Uncle Bob why is Uncle Bob Uncle Bob? Because I'm sorry. He describes her. Um okay, hold on. Went to my highlights. Um, he describes her eyes as being limpid pools. Yes, limpid pools was crazy. I remember that description as well. He's like, who wouldn't love you, Christy? You're so attractive, and your eyes are like limpid pools. You are 15, and my each one. But you know. Yeah, so and Uncle Bob is like, I want to remember so bad like how this storyline plays out because even in these first three books, you don't get much resolution with Uncle Bob and Aunt Marty. Because Aunt Marty is pretty much a villain character, and Uncle Bob is like this cool, chill dude who's like attractive but old and and like successful and is always like giving me a big thing. Which by the way, Christy really points out, she's like, he's 50, but he doesn't look it. Yeah, like repeatedly, repeating. Easy, he's your uncle. So, anyways, yeah, it's just weird. Like, I wish I could remember um what the deal is with Uncle Bob, but because it's also like, hey, why are these two married to each other? Like, they don't seem to like each other that much or like be on the screen. Again, it's giving it's it's giving boomer parents. That's fair. That is fair. Um, so yeah, she that's how she starts her time in California is like I need to but this is so like this is like I know it's Christy's nightmare. This was my dream come true. If you had told me when I was 15 and like awkward and feeling like bad about myself, that I could go to a new state where I would be on the beach, and my cool aunt would help me with my dressing and my hair and my makeup, and I would look cool and I could reinvent myself and I could go to the beach every day and like meet guys and like be attractive to a no chaperone. Like you just go down there, walk. Yeah, like that's my dream come true, and it was really hard to relate to Christy. I really feel like this was like this was the exact vibe of just what you loved about camp. Yes, right? Yes, because it's just like you're like at it's like it's like the feeling of being at church camp and it's like you're always gonna see like your crush. Yes, like you are always like the whole point is to hang out and see each other and like provided for you for the night service, yes, and like everybody's doing each other's hair because like your crush is gonna be at service and you're finally gonna get after being like sweating gross all day, you can change and you can like look beautiful, and like show what your potential is. Yes, yes, yes, no, it that whole thing, I was like, Chrissy, why are you squandering this? Yes. So, anyways, she her first day she goes down there, she's wearing like a lime green bathing suit, and these surfer guys are like, hey, green bean, and like be mean to her, and she goes and cries her eyes out because she's a brat. Which is also kind of silly. Like, who what? Like, it's not even a good interval that that really happened, but yeah. And this is what yeah, okay. This is what Aunt Marty says. And just think, they called you a bean, not a frosty cone. See, they're saying you're thin. That's almost like a compliment. That's a direct quote. Like, hey, Aunt Marty, um, I really want intervention for you, but like I do think you're an icon. You to be your best self. Yeah, I love you. I love you, I want to be you. Oh, I want to be a rich aunt so bad. And then my my your freaking niece, you're so excited to spoil her. And she's like, I hate you, Aunt Marty, for buying me all these clothes. She's like wearing out the Amex, like the stripe is literally giving out, it's exhausted. She's like$700,$1,000 makeup counter, you know. Like that's just my dream life, but okay. Um, okay. So then so she's like, okay, yeah, Marty, everyone hates me. She's like, okay, well, we're gonna like shut up, bitch. Get in the car, we're going shopping. Yes. And like, I can fix this with money. And so she gets the whole makeover, it's like a whole thing. And then Aunt Marty kind of takes it upon herself to then be like her personal coach. Yeah. And that includes for dieting. So, like the the first morning after she like is like you know, what and who like what not to weird, she uh gets up and like she wants her to have this like weird protein shake. Yeah. And Uncle Bob made waffles, and and then um Aunt Marty goes, but sweetheart, don't you realize how many grams of fat are in that one waffle? That certainly isn't a proper breakfast for a young lady who wants her eyes to glow, her skin to clean, and her hair to shine. Uh, I mean, okay, yeah. Uh talk to your husband about that one. He's the one who made the waffles, respectfully. Like, let's not give uh Christy Miller an eating order. Yeah. And on the Ithis Breakfast, we get a really important piece of Bob and Marty lore. Yes. Here's the Bob and Marty lore. I hope you've also told Christy that much of your success can be attributed to that wonderful secretary who worked with you in your first real estate office. This? She put her arms around his neck and kissed him on the cheek, leaving a smudge of future lipstick. You know, she went on, that sweet young secretary you ended up marrying. This was so. I wanted, I need who's writing Christy Miller fanfiction about how Bob and Marty got together because this is so serious. What do you mean? Like Robin Jones gun. This is what I'm saying. Like, you didn't mean to do this. Like, she was probably trying to be like, look how tacky they are. Yes. And like unchristian and unredeemed. But no, I'm like, I want this story. Correct. I know about them. They are insane. And it's not like she broke up his marriage or something. Like, he just fell in love with his secretary. What's the big whoop? I mean, it's not real best, but she doesn't work for him anymore. Look at her. I bet she hustled her whole life. This is my that canon for Aunt Marty. She like grew up poor, she doesn't have parents or something, because nobody in this freaking series has parents who care about them. So she can be another one. And she's like working probably since she was like 14. Yes. And she's like had to fake how old she was to get a job. And she's like got this secretary job. She's busting her ass. She's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it one day. And then she marries the children. And she was saying hot day. She was saying hot. She's in the house. She's keeping it tight. She's not eating. No, she is doing going to extremely bad lengths. But she's like, I'm gonna marry fing rich. Because I'm not gonna live like rich forever. Proximity to rich men. How do I get close to rich men? I work for them as their secretary. And what did she do? And she bought those little tights with like the line up the back. Yeah. I love her. And she was like, Yeah, no, I can work late. Yeah. If you know what I mean. Any time hobby. This whole backstory. Alright. Uh, yeah, I need that actually. So um, I love them. I love them. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. They're the like the toxic, like uh childless couple of my dreams, by the way. Um, I love them. Wait, why is it like almost it's a way it's a less toxic version of like Michael and Jan? You know what I mean? Just like a little bad hair. Dial both of them down like a couple notches, and that is what it is. Could you see Aunt Marty doing like a Serenity by Jan? Like having a candle room where she just goes and smells all our candles. Dude, yes, and I love them. I do love them. Um I hate when they leave the page. I know it makes me s some extra lore from the third book. Uh this might be an appropriate time to reveal that Aunt Marty did have a child, they had a child together who died the day before Christy was born, and they've never talked about her.

unknown 21:13

And I'm so sorry.

Abigail 21:16

Um, so Christy finds out about this, and because her mom is like, this is why she like wants to be a mother figure to you because she like thinks of you as like her daughter that she never had that she like lost when you were literally like the baby dies, and then the next day Christy's born. So this is the trauma we're dealing with here, and then they like could never have kids after that. Um, so that is the background on Marty, which does make her even more human to me. Yes. I mean, actually, and okay, and again, I really don't think the Robin Jones gun like meant to do this. Yeah. But I think unintentionally, what we see is a baddie, Marty. Yes. In her full power. Yes. And we see a young baddie. Uh-huh. Christy. She could go either way. Who throughout the course of time squanders her baddiness. Her ability. We lost a baddie. We lost to D.Va. We did. She was on her way to greatness. Is D.Va down? She got enraptured by the most lame, cheese ball, mediocre guy named Todd. Todd. Todd. Todd.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

We'll get to Todd. And she okay. She loses her baddiness.

Conversion Pressure And Youth Group Tactics

Abigail 22:25

She just comp like she could have been a bad great baddie of all time. And I think I understand Marty, because like she probably comes from Wisconsin too. Maybe her parents owned the dairy farm before Christy's parents did. And then she moves to California. She's trying to make her own life for herself. I forgot she is Christy's mom's sister, so the whole backstory might not quite work the same way. But like she's probably the younger sister. She's like trying to set her own path in life, and everybody's like always judging her and being like, Why did you move to California? Like, you suck, your life sucks, and we hate you. And she's like, I'm gonna make my own way and I'm gonna show you guys. And meanwhile, she's flying diamond medallion coast to coast. Yeah, and your dairy farm is being closed. Custom Balenciaga fittings. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, and I think I understand like Todd and I not Todd, Bob and Marty, especially throughout the series are like, hey, Christy, like you can slow down and like take time to figure things out for yourself. When and I understand that too, because if my niece came to stay with me and like she no matter like whatever, she's all of a sudden out of nowhere is like becoming super hardcore religious or any anything, like a personality switch. I would be like, hey, it's okay to like that's fine if you want to go to church, like if you wanna look be make new friends, but this is like a lot all at once, and you're 15 and like are you okay? And I feel like they're being, I don't know, I feel like they're being chill about it. So team bot and Marty. Yeah, yeah. I yeah, I mean, anyways, so we have to get on with the plot. She does go back to the beach, um, and this is when she meets the loser of all time. Todd. Todd. Who rescues her from the ocean and Alyssa. Also, Sean. And Sean.

unknown 24:18

Dude. Oh my god.

Alyssa’s Home Life And Pregnancy Arc

Book Two: Arrest, Eating Disorders, Moral Panic

Abigail 24:20

I did not remember anything about Sean. Anything. I wasn't ready. Dude, what the fuck? Okay, so not ready. So yeah, she meets Sean, Alyssa, and it's very clear that there's like two camps. No, not she doesn't meet Tracy. Okay. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. She does meet Tracy. Yeah, Tracy shows up. Yeah. Okay. Yes, two camps. Two types of people in this world, by the way. Losers, good, bad people who aren't Christian, and really amazing people who are the worst person you've ever met. Oh my god. You're like the most punchable fing guy you've ever known. If I forgot whatever, whatever. We'll get to Todd. We'll get to Todd. We'll get to Todd. Who I used to love. I used to love Todd. I was so upset to lose him. I lost Todd, though. He's gone. I mean, here's the thing. When I was reading this, I was like, oh, 15-year-old me would have loved Todd. I would have loved Todd, and I did. I would have been obsessed with Todd. So, anyways. So here's the thing. Okay, so Sean and Todd are buddies. But a year ago, Todd had a bit of a transformation in his life where he gave his life to the Lord and asked Jesus to come into his life and be his personal Lord and savior. On Christy's birthday, which is such a freaking trope that I would have eaten up again. But like, oh, that's that's her birthday. Oh, oh my god. My god, that was that was the day I was baptized. Anyways, so yes. In the ocean, by the way. Anyways, um, so like Sean is on the beach and he's like drinking a beer, and then uh Todd is like, oh no, I don't really want that, and then Chrissy's like, well, I brought Cokes, yeah, and so like whatever. And then like Alyssa and Sean are like like bad girl, bad boy. Yeah, they're both and Todd's like, oh, do you wanna like go get ice cream or something? Because he and uh Tracy. Tracy work at this ice cream shop or something, whatever. And Christy's like, are they dating? What's the vibe? But like, I don't know because Todd's paying me attention, yeah, and I think he's cute, and so therefore I should change. She's immediately, and like I get it. Yeah, I actually relate to this so hard, and so there's no judgment to this queen. No, she's like teen. I she changed, she was like, Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and change my entire personality, life purpose, and mission in life to get Todd's attention. Yeah, locking in, whatever. Locking in, I will do, and that's okay because Todd is a Christian, so it's okay that I'm doing this, and it is never portrayed as a bad thing at all for me to change my entire life for him. And if she had changed her whole life for Sean, it would have been a horrible thing. But no, she changes her entire identity, belief system, sense of self, everything. Everything, and it gets worse for Todd throughout the three books I read. Yes, yeah. So Sean and Alyssa peel off and Christy. I'm like, oh, sweet me. I see me. She's like, are they going to lunch or something? But they're like clearly going to go fuck each other. And they're like everybody's like, what is wrong with you? No, okay. Listeners, there is this phenomenon, and I don't I want to know who can join us in this. We're accepting applicants. Uh when you were a teen, did you just think no one was ever doing anything they weren't supposed to do? Or were you just not invited or let in on the secret? Because we just were never invited or let in on the secret. So then years later, you find out everyone's been having sex this whole time. Everyone's been doing drugs this whole time and drinking this whole time, and just no one ever thought to invite you because you were fucking this. That's Christy Miller. No, that's Christy Miller. Yeah, that was us. Oh, we call it the cyclone of ignorance, which is where you and your friends don't know anything. Yeah. No one would ever tell you anything, and so you just talk to your other friends who were in the cyclone with you. Right. And you're just like, no one's doing this, right? You're like, no, no, I've never done this. Okay, okay, okay, okay. And then years later, you're like, oh, everybody was laughing at us, which is fine. It's fine, Christy. But yeah, it was it was so funny. This happens more than once. There's a scene later we'll get to um where she has no clue what's going on. Oh. No, it's way worse. Okay, so hilarious. Okay. So there's like kind of nothing really happens for a little while. She's just like going to the beach, hoping Todd will be there, getting dressed up. She's doing her eyeliner before going down to the ocean. She does her eyeliner. Like, I think 20% of the book is her doing her eye makeup, taking it off. Spritzing her bangs. Spritzing her bangs. And then like her talking about how her eyeliner is gloopy. Gloopy is used more than once. Yes. And she's like, why can't I do my eyeliner? Ocean water is oozing. Yes. So she's like dripping. Ocean water does ooze, Robin. She's dripping like eye. Dude, the writing. This was actually what I should have said at the top. The most disappointing thing for me was finding out how terrible these books are. And again, the content's fine, but I was like, oh, I love these so bad. I I felt like I understood that it would not jive with me as a person today, but I was not expecting the writing to be like the dialogue is so uncomfortable and cringe. Everything is like an afterschool special. It is not good. And it's just that was upsetting as well. Write the book. Yes. You don't have the book. If Robin Jones Gunn can write like 40 of these, you can write the book write what's on your heart. So, anyways. Yeah. So uh yeah. So she's like, okay, Todd. He's like, there's scenes where Todd is like teaching her how to body surf. Yeah, very sexy. Which, okay, that would have like oh my god. I mean, she was so I would have been she was like, we were going under a wave and he grabbed my wrist. Like okay, that would have like I would have I would I get it. I would doubt Christy, I'm not judging you. No, I was you. I didn't know. I just wish that you had a strong female role model in your life. Listen to Marty. You did. You listened to Marty. But she didn't. Marty doesn't know what she's saying about because she's not a Christian. She's not a Christian! She's not a Christian! Um she's playing in dark sad and stuff. Like, no, literally, Todd also, by the way, has a habit which never gets better of never communicating. He'll be like, I'll see you later. And Chrissy's like, when like when will I see you? And he's like, I don't know. Yeah, what are you talking about? Yeah. So that is how things go. It's just like, oh, I hope Todd will be there today. Uh she's just waiting around to see if he will show up, basically. So, anyways, yeah, she gets invited to a party. She gets invited to this party. She's like, she never knows what's going on with Todd. Ever. And by the way. Ever. If he's dating Tracy, if he likes her beer, if they're going on a date, if they're not going on a date, no one really knows. Very unclear. But she's gonna go to this party at Sean's house with Alyssa. So she and Alyssa go to the party. They get to the party and Alyssa just dips with some other guy that's not Sean. And everyone's drinking beer. She's done with Sean. And Chekov's, by the way, her sleeping with Sean is Chekhov's her sleeping with Sean. There is payoff for that. I'm gonna let you keep going.

unknown 31:36

Does she get pregnant?

Abigail 31:38

She gets pregnant. She's pregnant with Sean's baby. With Sean's baby. That's the reveal in book three. That's the reveal. And let me tell you, Todd stoked. Todd is the most stoked a human being has ever been because Sean and Alyssa created life together and they created an eternal soul. And he thinks this is a miracle because she doesn't abort the baby. There's a whole sideline about if she's gonna have an abortion, she doesn't abort the baby. Um, and that's because of Christy's influence on her, and thank God, because now Sean like can live on, and like he's like, I bet this baby's gonna be the greatest evangelist that ever lived. That is Todd.

unknown 32:20

Fuck Todd.

Book Three: Ambiguity Bracelets And Forever-Friend Zoning

Theology Critique: Heaven Anxiety Over Ethics

How It Aged: Writing Quality And Impact

Where Christy And Todd End Up

Abigail 32:21

So when Zach went to college, his mom wrote him this letter. Oh my god, oh my god. And in the letter, she she was like, One time drinking can make you an alcoholic. Sure. One time doing drugs can make you a drug addict. There, one time having sex can make you father, which she was right about that one. I mean, yeah. Okay. That's the only one she's right about. But that was the energy of this book. Is like one time that just casually experience no, and all and all bad decisions are equal, and they will result in you getting pregnant, dying, going to rehab, something like that. Everything is just really good. So she goes to this party. Continue. She's talking to this guy, and she's like, Is there any Cokes? I like I don't want a beer. I just like, and then they're like, Oh, go upstairs, and you could ask uh Sean. Go to the city. She goes upstairs and she's like, Sean, you have any Coke? By the way, that why would he have any Coke in his room? Yeah. And she's like, This is a weird place for Cokes. And she goes in, he's like, Oh, we don't have any Coke, but we have this stuff, it's really good. And they're smoking weed. Yeah. Okay. So they're all getting high, and then just Todd shows up, and Christy's like, Todd! And she like runs out and she's like, And why is he there by the way? Why is he there? He's supposed to be this good guy. Why is he there at all? I think I'm gonna die in this house every time Todd shows up. I hate Todd. I hate Todd. So they leave, whatever. They go to walk along the beach to go home because Christy's like, I can't do this anymore. Which by the way, I relate to Christy so yeah. In middle school, I went to a Halloween party hosted by a girl at my school, and I was never invited to anything from people at my school. Sure. And I showed up and there was literally one boy invited, and I thought it was gonna be an all-girls party, but there was one boy, and I got so dumb that there was a boy there that I cried and I had my mom pick me up. Yeah, I once, when I was in fifth grade, I went to a sleepover at my friend's house, and we went to Blockbuster to pick out a movie. This is so embarrassing, and they picked out a PG 13 movie, and I wasn't allowed to watch PG 13 movies, and I literally was like bawling my eyes out, like telling them, guys, I'm not allowed to watch PG 13 movies, like we can't watch this. I was like so scared, and I I stayed and we did watch it, and I the guilt was like all consuming, which is crazy. What movie was it? Um, good uh what's the one where it's like good she has like bad luck? I want to say it's like Hillary Duff or and like she kisses the guy and then his bad luck comes into her. You know what I'm talking about? I think that's is it Lindsay Lohan? Or maybe it's Lindsay Lohan, it's one of those, anyways. There's something about good luck and bad luck, and then this guy with bad luck like kisses her or something, and so she gets the bad luck and like everything goes wrong, and then they kiss again and it goes back to I don't know. So it was fine. Like now we're if you guys are wondering why no one told us anything again. In high school, I never was invited to a party ever. So I didn't have this experience. Good for you, Chris. No, I don't know. Um, so yeah, anyways, uh they go down to the beach and they're like walking home. He's like, Oh, let's go get ice cream or something. And while they're there, they pass Sean and his friends, and they're all stoned. And by the way, again, being stoned doesn't make you want to go. Okay, I I got stoned once on the beach, and that I will advise not going in the ocean when you're stoned because I did pull a muscle on my calf. So this could have been you, Abigail. But just standing in the shore, but I did not have enough energy to go out. I was like standing in the surf and like a wave hit me and my like knee went like this, and like I pulled up and I felt my calf snap. Oh my god, it tore my muscle. Jeez, so don't do it, you guys. Don't be like, but I wouldn't have been able to I wouldn't have been able to go surfing. This is you know what I'm saying? It just isn't yeah, so yeah, Sean and his friends are like, We're going body surfing. And Todd's like, bro, you can't do this. Like, you can't like almost gets in a fight. Yeah, and they're all like she's like you know what? I've read codependent no more. I know that I can't make you my responsibility, so he leaves fair. Um and then Sean dies by getting slammed into the jetty by a wave, and he doesn't make it through the night. And Christy is the one who is by his side as he dies. Like Todd, for some reason, calls her, which is crazy. There's not a pastor. Who's their pastor, by the way? They need way. This is okay. Look, I'm gonna No youth pastor, it's just Todd. No, it's freaking 15-year-old Todd, 16, whatever. Um by the way, if this wasn't abundantly clear to you all, Todd is blonde. Yes, he's a blonde man, he's a blonde man, and we should blonde men are evil. Can't trust him. Um, so, anyways, he calls Christy. He's like, hey, I need to go like track down Sean's family or something. They're not here. Something. Can you come sit by the Todd's parents? Where's Todd's dad? No, he's neglected, basically. We get to that later. Um, his dad like basically just doesn't care about him and leaves him alone for like months at a time. Like he spent Christmas by her. In the third book, he's like alone on Christmas, just like his dad's in Switzerland or something. Anyways, so his parents are divorced. This is like what I'm saying. Everything is so evil. Like, if something bad happened to you in this book, it's like the worst bad thing possible. So, anyways. No, yeah, it's like, oh, he did he smoked weed once, he's dead. Um Todd's parents are divorced, he'll die. They don't they don't love him or care about him, and he's fully neglected, and child protective services should be stepping in. That's why Todd's like this. So, anyways, um she he calls Christy and is like, come sit by. And so her aunt and uncle drive her, and they're like, Okay, what what happened to this party? And so she goes and he he dies while Christy's there. She doesn't really know this guy, by the way. She just got to town, and she's like twice. She was with him right before he died, right? So she's like traumatized processing that trauma. But like again, no time is spent on this being traumatic. This whole scene happens in like two pages. The doctors all of a sudden just like, we did everything we could, and she's like, and then they're the police are questioning her because they're like, hey, was he like on drugs? And she's like, Yeah, there was marijuana, and and Marty's blowing her lid. But Marty's the one who's been encouraging this whole thing, anyways. So then Uncle Bob and Aunt Marty get into a fight in front of them, and in front of her, and they're like screaming at each other, and Bob's like, This is your fault, like you were pushing her to make friends, and now, like, again, Bob, maybe chill the big one. Like, okay, so um, yeah, Sean dies. He just died. I think that if you combined the strengths of Bob and Marty, yes, you would have an amazing parent. Yes, because she does mention a lot, and this is like like she mentions a lot, like she doesn't have feel like she can talk to her parents, but she feels like she can talk to Bob, and he like listens to her and doesn't like shut her down, and um, so like that's nice, and Marty has some really good qualities, so yeah, if they would just get on the same page and meet in the middle, they would be the best aunt and uncle ever. So, okay, yeah. So, my note was when he died, he died. What is this book? Yes, and then I do not remember that. Or not we have we have the most insane thing I've ever read on a page. Oh my god, and I've read a lot of things. We just read Redeeming Love, by the way. Okay, this tops it. We're at Sean's funeral, and Todd, who is 16, is asked to give up, to get up and like speak, give a eulogy at this funeral. And he was like, Yeah, about a year ago, like I accepted, I gave my life over to Christ, and um, you know, I don't know if um if uh if Todd ever if uh Sean ever did, but uh like I know that I'm going to heaven because I accepted Jesus into my heart, and I don't know so much about Sean. Like he's he essentially says that, yep, which is crazy, so inappropriate, and um then like that opens up a conversation between like Todd, Tracy, and Christy about uh Christianity in the intervening days, and Todd uses this analogy because Christy's like, I don't know, I was raised in church. Like, what do you mean? I'm not a Christian. And then they're sitting on the beach, and he's like, you know, out there is Hawaii, but we can't see it. That's like heaven, and we can't swim there on our own, but Jesus is the boat, and this is the most horrible metaphor of all time, and it reveals this fundamental understanding of Christianity, and I don't want to get into the theology of this book because I just don't know. That's that's not but it's like the whole point of Christianity to them is not going to hell. Yes, it's not about like how you live at all, or like what you do on earth, or like what your beliefs are, your guiding principles, or like how you should live, what you should do. It's all about going to heaven. That's what everyone's focused on. And not having some basis for the faith. Yes, yeah, anyways. So she gets to go on this trip, then again, trauma brushed over. Someone just died. Uh, but okay, she gets to go to San Francisco. While she's there, he's like, let's go to San Francisco. Again, nothing really that important happens except for the souvenir she gets Todd, which is I escaped from Alcatraz. His friend just died by being in the ocean and getting thrown against a jetty. And the gift she gives him is I escaped from Alcatraz. Are you out of your mind? Marty, you should have stopped that. Oh god, that was so crazy. Like, anyway, so she gets in, but he loves it. He doesn't care when she gives it to him. He's like, Oh great, dope. Yeah, but we have to talk about it when she gives it to him. Yeah, yeah. So my god. When she gets back, he's like, hey, like she he walks up to her on the beach and she's like, Oh my god, I wonder if Todd will ask me out or something. And he comes up and he's like, Hey, do you want to go to a concert? Fon. I hate Todd. Oh my god. Young women of the world, listen to me. Listen to me, these wide words from your sister. If a blonde man comes up to you on the beach and asks you to go to a concert, but he doesn't tell you what the concert whose concert it is. It's church. It's just church. It's just church, you guys. And like, okay, that's fine. But like also, she's like so soaked. She like puts on a dress that Marty bought her. She like does her makeup again, her eyeliner, and it's gobby. And then Todd shows up. What is she doing with her eyeliner that makes it globy? Dude, it's like after a certain point, either give up or learn how to do it. Like, it's not that hard. Okay. You can get your shit together, Christy. Do it.

unknown 43:16

Yeah.

Abigail 43:17

So, okay. She tells she gets so excited, she's like, Aunt Marnie and Uncle Bob. I'm going on a date. Todd's taking me on a date. Oh my god. And so she's so excited. It's like such a huge deal, whatever. And he comes to pick her. He's late picking her up. Of course he is. That's constant with him, by the way. He's always like fucking late. And he never apologizes. And he doesn't care. He's he's a total surfer dude, bro. He doesn't care. This would drive me insane, as you know. I have no patience for that. I mean, Eric is always late all the time, so I can't really talk, but you you know, you accept certain things. He's not blonde, so it's kind of like 50 50.

unknown 43:56

Exactly.

Abigail 43:57

Anyways, yeah, he shows up late. Anyways, so So he shows up like knocks on the door and he's like wearing shorts and a t-shirt. And she's like, Oh fuck, I cannot believe I'm wearing a dress or something. Yeah. And she has her little gift for him, her Alcatraz, the Alcatraz sweatshirt. It's horrible. And she's like, okay, she goes out, he has a VW van. That's what he drives. Of course he does. Opens the sliding door. Car full of people. Dude. The crash out. No, no, no, no, no. The crash out. I would start crying. I don't know if I could. I would have lost it. I would have lost it. Also, by the way, like no one, no guy when I was 15 asked me on anything that could have even been misconstrued as a date. So this never happened to me personally. But if it did. When was your first date with Eric? How old are you? Oh, 17.

unknown 44:49

Okay.

Fanfic Dreams: Bob And Marty Lore

Abigail 44:51

So, you know. Maybe I was. No, yeah. I was like, I had just turned 17, so. Anyways. Close, but not quite. And that was not misconstrued. That was me misconstruing it as friends hanging out when he was construing it as a date. So it was kind of the opposite scenario as to what Christy went through, which is Todd being unclear. She got invited to a youth group. She got invited to church. Yes. So she's sitting in the back of the van. He opens up the sweaty. He's like, oh, cool. She's like, oh, I'm gonna fing kill myself. I'm gonna fucking throw myself into the jetty, actually. Yeah. Like Sean, I can't live. Going with Sean. They get to church. She's like, it's like a community center. And then she's like, there's like a hidden meaning in all of the lyrics to this song. And this lady. The hidden meaning is like, I love you guys. It's like Darlene Sheck, and she's like, it's like a hillsong ass situation. Yeah. I was trying to find some of the lyrics, but oh, here we go. Um, you won't find it at the mall. Oh, you won't find it at the mall. It never goes on sale. You can't put it on your credit card or order it through the mail. Its value is priceless, but for you today, it's free. Just give your heart to Jesus and get life eternally. You can't buy it. The price has already been paid. Jesus bought it for you when he raised up from the grave. And she says, Is this a religious category?

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Yeah, you think?

What We’re Reading Now

Kara Bastone Rec And Closing Tease

Abigail 46:17

Yeah, oh my god. And then she's like, Todd. This is so real, though. Being at church, everybody's praise and worshiping, and you're looking at your crush, like, raising your hand. Do you like me? Todd. Girl, stand up. His name is literally Todd. His name is Todd. He's blonde. He surfs. He drives a van. He has no parents. Like, what that's all I need to know. Oh, anyways. So. So she gets moved by one of the songs. Yeah. And then at the end, afterwards, Todd's like, hey guy, hey gang, I got a hookup. And he like brings it to the back and they get to meet Debbie, who is like the performer. Debbie is a crazy name for an artist, by the way. You know who I was envisioning, and you'll probably bleep this out. I was like, oh, this is Yancy. I was thinking Yancy. Oh my god, I was gonna say Yancy. I'm not bleeping that out. Shout out Yancy, what she's doing these days. Yeah, it is giving Yancy. If you guys know who Yancy is, there's no way they do. There's no way anybody knows who that is. I think she's like personal friends with the people at our former church. Everything about this was giving. I don't care. Like it was it was like I could visualize it. I mean when you go to a church, this is the thing. There's a lack of discipleship. This is my whole point to what our childhood, and we don't have to get into it too much. But when you go to a church that big, us proceeds to get deeply into when you go to a church that big, there is a lack of discipleship, and you're relying on kid teenagers who are 17 and 18 to tell you what you should believe. And it it becomes this thing where it's like, this is not real, because there's no adult in that room because you're all just like like there's a million kids in this youth group. So, anyways, that's what happens. Um, Doug and Todd are like the leaders of their little group. So they go so she goes back there and she's like, Hey, I'm Christy, and she's like, you know, Debbie told her, I've always liked the name Christy. Oh my god, it means follower of Christ. Did you know that? Like, oh, what a weird thing to say. Oh my god. So, anyways, and then Christy's like, I really liked your last song. It made me feel something. And then Debbie's like, Oh, what did it make you feel? She's like, It's hard to explain. And then Todd is like seizing the opportunity for like her to get evangelized to. So she's like, Hey, the rest of the gang, besides Christy, anyone want to go buy some CDs? And they're like, Yes, and then and then they're like, Okay, wait, no, you stay back. The whole thing was very predatory. It was giving MLM prediction. It was like, she we have now got her. She showed an ounce of interest. We're gonna leave her here with this, the the main girl who's like got the sales pitched down. We're gonna leave, we're gonna come back, she'll be converted. We got our numbers up, you know what I'm saying? It was very, very sketchy, and it was like, this would make me so uncomfortable if I've never been here before, and now you're leaving me alone with a strange woman. Hello? Come on. So then Debbie goes, Christy, if you were to die tonight, do you know for certain you would go to heaven? So then Christy's like, Okay, this was like a lot. Um, I think I need to think on it. Yeah, whatever. Which is fair again. So, whatever, they all get back in the van, gus the bus is what it's called, and the Todd takes her back home, walks her to the door, and she's like, Well, this sucked. This was the worst day ever. Yeah. And then parting blow. He walks away, turns around, he's like, Hey, by the way, like your dress. He is evil, he does this all the time. He like convinces, he like pushes her away. He's like, Ah, not done up shit. He does things to lead her out. He's in like the love-bombing abuse cycle. Correct. And then at the last second when she's like, This sucks. I hate Todd, he does one little thing, but like, you're not ready for what I tell you. You are not ready for when I tell you what happens in the third book between them. Um, like, you're fully not ready. I can't even talk about it. So, anyways. Okay, so that all happens, that was drama. And then what happens next? A bunch of random things. Oh, she has a whole thing with Alyssa. She finds out that Alyssa's mom is an alcoholic. She comes from a troubled home, she's leaving. It's this is setting up the plot for how she's pregnant. Yes. Um, like later on. Um from a distance. We find that out through a letter. But she's at Alyssa's house and she's like, Oh, this is bread crumbing. Well, you made that make sense. Because she says, Yeah, she's helping her clean up her room and pass. Yes, yes. Just wonder what this is, Crystal Bells. Popping the pop open, a circle of little white pills curved around the inside with a number underneath each one. And then Alyssa's like, Oh, I've been looking for that for days. And then and then her new man comes in and he heavily implies that she is like teasing him and hasn't like slept with him yet. And he's like, Well, I want to say goodbye to you. And then he realizes Christy's there, and he's like, Oh man, f you, you suck, you're leading me on, and then he leaves. So it's implied that she the last person she slept with was Sean. She doesn't know where her birth control is. Check ov's Sean, checkov's Eric, check that was the name of the other guy, and then checkov's birth control. Please use protection when you have sex. Especially if you're like 16. Like, first of all, don't listen to this podcast. Go away. Yeah, if you're 16, come back and be able to do that. You're not engaged. But uh, you know, everyone else, let's make safe choices. Um, yeah. So that happened, she goes away. So then she's more confused than ever about where she stands with Todd. That's a common thing. One day she's like in a room and she like wonders if Todd is gonna come by and say hi to her. He apparently does. Marty comes upstairs and she's like, Oh hey, Todd is downstairs. And she's like, Oh, okay. So she goes downstairs and they're gonna hang out, and he's like, Hey, you wanna go to Disneyland for your birthday? Oh my god. Then she's like, uh, yeah. Like, duh. Uh and she's like, Are we gonna invite anyone else? He was like, I mean, no. And she was like, Okay, I don't want to invite anyone else unless you do. Yeah. And then he goes, Nope. We can sell our birth celebrate our birthdays together. Oh my god. You'll be 15 and I'll be one year old in the Lord. Yeah, like, okay, great. Whatever. So they go to Disney. So then they spend a little day together, they do some biking. And then I I I actually this is one thing that touched me. Um, it's like part of Christy's internal dialogue while she's out with Todd and she's like, they're ordering something and she can't figure out what to do. This is like so relatable to being 15. She was like, Why do I have such a hard time making simple decisions? Yeah. Why do I always lose my confidence at key moments and act like a total idiot? Does Todd notice my insecurities? Does he like me? What about Tracy? Why is Tracy so much more self-confident and bubbly? Why can't I be more like her? Oh. Just like the inner monologue. I do think like as annoying as Christy is, she is a very again, why I love this book. Um, she is a very real 15-year-old, and that's like how she acts and how she feels. Maybe not all of it is something I can relate to, but a lot of it is like, oh, I know that. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. Um, later after the date where they're outing together, yeah. She comes home and she's like hungry. So she goes to the fridge and she's like, What should I get at the snack? Do you remember this part? No. Tell me. She goes with the refrigerator for something to eat and settled on a piece of barbecued chicken and a glass of milk. Jesus Christ, what is that?

unknown 53:35

What in the fuck?

Abigail 53:37

Oh my god. Sometimes it's like, this is my thing. I I like this is so like amateur, like fanfic writing stuff where it's like, to me, it's like, hey, you don't need to describe every outfit, you don't need to describe every meal. That's weird because it's you start to put things in there that are like, what are you talking about? What is she wearing? That's gross. Like, just say she grabbed a snack from the fridge. We don't, you know, like also the part, I don't know which I think this was in a later book, but like one time Bob's like, hey, you should get the fettuccine alfredo and she orders it. And she's like, This is disgusting. It's like milk pasta. Like, okay, I hate you, Christy. Like fettuccine alfredo. Show how Christy. Okay, anyway. Um, okay, so maybe let's fast forward to when they go to Mad Kingdom.

unknown 54:26

Oh my god.

Abigail 54:27

They go. Uh Todd has like a mysterious checkoffs wad of cash. He has a huge wad of cash. Um, mind you, pretty sure Todd doesn't really have a job uh or parents. He works at the ice cream place, yeah. But like we never have once seen him do a shift there. So, um, anyways, he has a huge lot of cash and he's like paying for everything, like tickets, wait, wait, wait, wait, souvenirs. We have to skip. We have to go back though. Okay, sorry. He picks her up on time. Yes. She goes out to the car. Yes. Opens the door. Yes. And Tracy is in the car. Oh, right, right, right, right. I believe.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

And she's like, she she she she flips her shit.

Abigail 55:05

She loses her. Like rightfully. She's like, I put you, I put you. Like a scream. Surprise! And she just like she cracks. Yeah. And like fair, fair. And Tracy's like, uh He's just taking it away. He's like, I'm just dropping her off at work. And she's like, oh. But he's like mad at her for having that reaction. He's like, why is it a big deal to hang out with Tracy? Yeah. Um, whatever. Anyways, they give her a joint gift, Tracy. And by the way, she's never asked, she's never just straight up asked Todd what his relationship status with Tracy is. Right. So we still don't really know. Actually, it never gets clarified. I mean, it does later, I guess, but it's like, why can't we just have a conversation? Like, I would just casually be like, no, I don't know. Maybe when I was 15, I probably wouldn't. Be like, he should make that clear. I don't know. Anyways, yeah, we give her a Bible. Yeah. A joint gift because she still hasn't become a Christian. As someone who uses a joint gift to justify a ship that is not canon, I would say that could be evidence of an existing relationship if two people are giving a joint present to a third person. What are you talking about? Um, I'm talking about when Remus and Sirius give Harry a joint present from both of them. That's true. Yes. Um clear. That's a weird thing to do. Maybe if you're interested in taking a girl out on a date, you're giving her a Bible that you are giving her with another girl. I do think that's an overarching message of the series, is that actually, which is it's so weird to read this. The like vibe on dating is so confusing to me. It's not what I expected at all. Where it's like, you can date and it doesn't have to have this like commitment, and you can still have friends of the opposite gender, and like you can like you can kind of like each other, but like I don't know, it's so weird. I don't know if you felt that way, but it was just like I was expecting because I remembered the first kiss still marriage thing, so I was expecting it to be very like courting and like intense, and this is feels like a different version of dating that I wasn't expecting. Yeah, like we should just all hang out, and if you like someone, you should see where it goes. And uh we never really say it. But we're not gonna talk about it. Yeah, that does continue again. I again I really deeply want to tell you how things play out between her and Todd. So um continue. Okay, okay, we'll get there, we'll get there. We'll get there. So they're at Magic Kingdom, yeah. They're he's like buying her everything, buying her snacks, souvenirs. She wants to get like gifts for her family, gifts for Paula, whatever. He's just like daddy warbucks. And she's like, oh my god, this is so sweet. Like he's treating each this whole day. Yeah. They hold hands through like a lot of the day. They like ride a ride together, where she's like back to Yes, like back to his chest. I actually highlighted this part. Yes, okay, thank you. She said, um, you look like you're about to jump out. I thinking, I'm thinking about it, Christy admitted, cautiously leaning against Todd's chest. He felt solid and warm. And oh, how she wished wished he would wrap his arms around her. Oh my god, like slay. I wish that happened to you when I was 15. When I was in fifth grade, oh my god, and I was a world changer. Oh my god. Pre-World Changer of the Year, by the way. And on my rise to World Changer of the Year. Sure. And um my big crush, yes. Yes, was also a world changer. Sure, of course. We went to Six Flags on an outing. Oh my god, and I remember the Six Flags trips well. Dude, I like all day, I just like arranging like how can I be next to my crush on this ride? Yes. How can I like have him looking at me when we're going down the hill? Yes. And I remember he was so obsessed with Batman, uh huh. The Batman ride and there was like no line. So I was I literally I rode the Batman with him like five times in a row. I was just like, boom, boom. Like I could not stop writing Batman because he could not stop writing Batman. I wrote it so many times. I spent the whole day doing it, and it was worth it. Yeah, I get it, Christy. I get this feeling, Christy. I get it. This is so fun. This is the hot this is the best thing that's ever happened to me in your whole life. Todd does at one point say, You can't take a camera to Disneyland. That makes you look like a tourist. Huh? It's Disneyland. Everybody here, even if you live there, you're a tourist. It's Disney. Like, there's no other reason to come here. People don't live at Disney, you know what I mean? Like, that's crazy. So, anyways, that was my opinion. So they have this long day. She reveals to him that like she is gonna have to leave the next day. Oh, yeah, right. Her parents call her earlier. Yes, yes. All this stuff, whatever. But they're having an amazing day. Anyways, dude. She's like starting to wonder if maybe he's gonna kiss her when he drops her off. And they get home. It's so upsetting. He's like, he gives her a hug. And then he like walks away and she's like, Oh, I guess he's not gonna kiss me. And then he's like, wait, Christy. And she's like, Oh my god, he's gonna kiss me. She looks back over and he goes, He hands her a roll of cash. And he said, It's left over from the money your aunt gave me to take you to Disneyland. We didn't spend it all, so I thought you should give her the rest back. The blood drained from Christy's face. Oh my god. You mean my aunt asked you to take me today and she even gave you money? Uh-huh. Hey, it's cool. We had a great time. I'm glad she talked me into it. No. Talked you into it? Todd, I hate you so much. I hate you, Todd. This broke my heart. This actually broke my heart. Like this, this upset me on such a like visceral level that I couldn't, I couldn't. I I can't understand. Like, that is this was Chrissy's moment in her life. This was a big decision point in her life. At this moment, she could have just said, you know what? I'm done with you, Todd. Yeah. I'm done with Christmas. I wish she had. I wish she had. I'm gonna go back to Wisconsin and find a corn fed man. She should have. Maybe not. But she didn't, and that's the day the diva died. Yes. That's the day the diva died down. Because she decided to continue simping for Todd. Yes. Mm-hmm.

unknown 1:01:16

Mm-hmm.

Abigail 1:01:16

So that's humiliating. Um she throws the money in Marty's face and is like, I hey you! Which is valid again, completely valid. Crash out. Oh, I either way I would have crashed out. Like, are you kidding me? Oh my god. So yeah. I think she underreacted. I do too. This was when I turned on Marty a little bit because I'm like, I see what you're trying to do, but like it's just so painful because the whole day it's like ruined now. Because it's like, oh, I thought he wanted to spend time with just me. And it turns out he was being basically paid off to do this by my aunt. So um that's yeah. Then like she goes to say she goes to this bonfire to say goodbye to like the rest of the homies from the youth group. Oh wait, no, no, sorry. The next morning after this happens, she's like starts praying, she's just talking to God. Oh yeah. And she's like, Everything is so hard. I just wish Todd loved me, and blah blah blah. And actually, Jesus, I want you to come into my heart to be my personal Lord and Savior. And then that night she goes to the a bonfire. Yeah. All the homies from youth group are there. She reveals in like iconic behavior, by the way. Like the most dramatic way possible. And I love that. She's like, dear God, drama. So glad I accepted you into my heart today. Amen. And everyone's like, no, fuck. We finally.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

You asked Jesus to come into your bra!

Abigail 1:02:44

Because we're all surfers. Um, so yeah, and Todd is obviously, you know, not there. So he doesn't even know. And Doug then walks her home. Doug. Doug is Doug. And he's like, well, she's like, well, I'm leaving tomorrow. I don't know. And he's like, well, and he he is here. Doug gave her a big hug. I'll see you in heaven, if not before. That's crazy. I think I'm gonna die in this house. Dude. Yeah. What do you mean? Oh my god, I hate it. Um all right, so next day, she's headed to the airport, whatever. Gus, the bus, driven by our man, Todd, flashes the lights. He has a bouquet of white carnations. Of course. Which is her favorite flower. And he's like, I wrote down my address in Florida. It's on the card inside the flowers. I'm not promising I'll write a lot. Because he sucks. Never write a flower. If you want to write me. Yeah. Never once. If you want to write me. No. Yeah. What the? Like, it's actually not even that hard. Like, I'm gonna spread a rumor. Todd can't read. Because what do you mean? Like, what does he mean? He never writes her a letter. Todd's letter. Literally, she's like, this is so romantic. He was like, I don't know. Like, if you write me something, I'll like, maybe I'll write you about. Dude, don't don't let men treat you like this, young woman of the world. Come on. Come on. Todd sucks. But yeah. And then he kisses her in the middle of the road in front of her and Uncle. Um, Chase Lee. Chase kissed. And then, like, she gets in the car and she's like, Aunt Marty and Uncle Bob, like, I accepted Jesus in my heart. And then Aunt Marty goes, That's fine, dear. And Marty pursed her lips together. But my advice would be don't overdo this the religious approach to life. You control your own destiny, really. And there's no use waiting on God when you're perfectly capable of taking care of things yourself. Your aunt's right, Uncle Bob concurred. As I told you weeks ago, to thine own self be true. You guys are so cool. They're so cool. I'm sorry. And then she's like one. She says comically, this was the best summer of my life when it has been basically hell from start to finish until the last second. By the way. Like, someone dies. Someone died.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Friend kind of movie.

Abigail 1:05:11

But like this uh Bob and Marty are driving you crazy, but this was the best summer of her life. Your aunt and uncle tricked your crush into taking you to Magic Kingdom. So that sucks. Okay. So tell me everything else. Okay, so book two, um, kind of unremarkable, but her family ends up selling the farm. They move to that part, yeah. I don't know, somewhere else in California. And she makes like friends there who are like, again, I'm so confused by them. They're like kind of Christian. Um, but the girl Brittany, she has like a full eating disorder. Like she's on laxatives, diet pills, bulimia. She's throwing up after every meal. Then oh yeah, Todd left the day. So she moves back to California, goes, they're staying with Bob and Marty. And then Todd left the day. Like she moved back, he left the same day. So they don't even interact. At all again. Um that whole book? No. Um, at the very end of this okay, so she gets arrested at some point um because they go to Palm Springs and she's allowed to bring her friends. So she brings two friends and then the girl with the eating disorder. And the eating disorder girl, Britney, she's like, I don't feel well. Okay, so she goes on a run. During the run, she goes to sneakily behind everyone's back in the morning, refill her mom's diet pill prescription. And she's like, I'm refilling these for my mom. So then she has to go back and pick up the prescription. So she um is like, guys, I have really have a really bad stomach ache. Please, I'm not throwing up because believe me, it's actually because I'm sick. Can we go to the drugstore to get medicine? And they're like, I don't think we should leave the hotel room because that's like we can get in trouble and we don't know where we are. And they're like, No, it's like two blocks away, we'll just walk there. So they walk to the drugstore and she picks up the prescription and they're like, Oh my god, you lied to us. Like, you don't have a stomachache, you're picking up your diet pill prescription for your eating disorder. And she's like, Whatever, like, stop harassing me. And so then she's trying to steal the diet pills. Um, and because she doesn't have money, so she just leaves, and but then the security guard stops them. The her friends bail and leave Christy there, and she's like, God will protect me. So that the security guard arrests her. He calls the cops, they are fully book her, they print her, they make her into an interrogation room. Oh my god. And she like tells them the whole story because she had previously like the girl had given her one of her old prescriptions of diet pills and was like, Here, you can lose five to ten pounds. And Christy was like, I'm swearing I'm gonna throw these away. I don't want to take them, but I'm just holding on to them. So they're in her purse. So the cops are like, You have these like illegal contraband medication that's not for you, you're stealing. Um, unfortunately, we do have to book you. They're like, We believe you that you're telling the truth about your friend, but you're getting arrested, and um, this is gonna be on your permanent record. So then she gets in a lot of trouble, and then that's like the big climax of the book. And then Todd calls her at the end of the summer, and he's like, Yeah, sorry I didn't really write you. And then that's it. Um so then in the last book, she has it's like this guy is named Rick. Did he show up in the second one at all? Do you recognize that name? Probably not. So there's this guy, Rick, at school, who also goes to this church that she starts going to with her friends who kind of suck, but they're kind of Christian, but they kind of are mean to her. They're like popular girls at school, and um, so she Rick is. I'm gonna bleep this, but just so you can have a picture. Rick is giving um so he goes to the youth group and he's like, I'm Rick, and he's like the hottest guy in school. So they like they uh they like TP his house and whatever. Um so then whatever, they go back to Cal to Aunt Bob and Uncle Marty's for uh Christmas. She's like, Please, please, can I go to this bonfire at the beach, please? Like, there's another bonfire. She's like, Todd might be there. And um, oh yeah, because Todd's moving back to California because his mom got married, so he can't live with her anymore. It's giving like Bellaswan. So now he's gonna go live with his like emotionally absent father, and so he's moving to California too. So she knows he's coming back. Yes, it's all coming together. She's so excited, she's so pumped. Um, Aunt Bob and Uncle Marty give her. No, he didn't write her, by the way. He's like, Yeah, I got your letters. Hello. Um, Aunt Bob and Uncle Marty give her$10,000 for Christmas for a college fun. Her little brother gets$5,000. So there's some again, favoritism. Um, she goes to the par she goes, Todd calls her and invites her to Christmas breakfast on the beach. Uh her family's like, Yeah, sure, go have breakfast with him on Christmas Day. But they're like, You have to take David, your little brother. Also, you can't date till you're 16. They just now conveniently tell her this, and she's like, Oh, I hate my parents. But she takes her brother with her, and um, Todd's like, dude, you want to go skimboarding? So they go skimboarding, and she's like trying to, she's like making this breakfast on this bonfire all by herself, and she's like, Boys, the breakfast, boys, and they're not paying attention, so she goes down, and then seagulls eat their food, so it's like a disaster. Um, but then you find out Todd's like basically neglected because they go to his house and he's like, sorry, it's a mess. The housekeeper hasn't been here. My dad's been gone for like two weeks, and they're like, Your dad left you alone on Christmas, and then he's like, Yeah, he's like never here basically. Um, then this is when you find out Lisa's pregnant, uh, with Sean's baby. Todd again is like, I can't, oh my god, like even angels can't make a soul, but two people can make a soul, and she's like, Isn't that a sin though that they like slept together basically? And he's like, Well, yeah, but like God can redeem all things. Um then Todd comes over for like oh it's a whole so uh it's New Year's Eve. She's only staying there for the week of the holidays, and so they say hang out, whatever, blah blah blah. She still doesn't know where she stands with Todd, but then it's New Year's Eve, and it's like the last day until they go back to where they live. And um she's like, Todd, um no, there's like a party that everyone's going to at Heather's house. And she's like, Please, mom and dad, can I please go? And they're like, No, you cannot go to a New Year's Eve party. You've been out with your friends all week, you haven't spent any time with family. And she's like, Oh, but Todd's gonna be there, and like we have to leave tomorrow. And they're like, We don't care basically, maybe next year. And she's like, I hate you. She freaks out and she's so mad and she's screaming at everybody, and then she calls Todd to like tell him because like all summer there's been like this tension between them. Oh, and Doug is flirting with her, but Doug's really into Tracy, but Todd like thinks Doug's into her, and so he he's like getting mad and like jealous and like ignoring her, and so she's like, Please can we just talk before I go? And he's like, I don't know, maybe, and she's like, When? And he's like, Later, and she's like, but when I really am leaving and I really want to talk to you, and he's like, I don't know. So then she calls him to tell him, like, I can't come to the party. If you want to talk, like maybe you could come over and we could just talk to like clear the air. And he's like, Oh, sorry, can't. And in the background, she hears all the friends, like they're all hanging out without her, and she like slams the phone, hangs up. She's like crying her eyes out. I hate my life. So then it's New Year's Eve, and she's like, Oh my gosh, everything sucks. Yeah, and Marty's like, Why don't you dress nice and like you'll feel better? And uh, so she helps her get ready and stuff. She comes downstairs dressed all nice, and who's there in a tux but Todd? And it turns out that the reason he was being so cagey is because they invited him and they're like, Let's gonna make this a surprise. So he had been planning to spend New Year's, like he was being cagey about it because he didn't want to ruin the surprise. So he's there and they have dinner, like all they have this fancy dinner that Marty iconic. She like throws this amazing party, she has like coffee service, like candies, beautiful desserts, this whole like plated dinner prepared for everyone. And Todd's like literally preaching to them mid-New Years dinner. He's like, Yeah, you guys, like there are no he literally says there are no second chances in hell to them at New Year's Eve dinner. And he's giving this, and she's like, I loved when Todd's. I always know that's like this. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, well, thank on that. Um, and then okay, so all this happens. He like then her parents are like after dinner, they're like, Okay, well, you have her back by 12 30. And she's like, What? And they're like, Yeah, you can go to the party, but just come back by 12 30. So she gets to go to the party with her friends, and then he he's like, Let's leave early, just me and you, and we'll walk back or whatever. And so he walks back with her and he gives her a bracelet that says forever. Hold on, I have to read this to you. Hold on. What? Like a like a promise bracelet? A pfff okay, a friend promise bracelet. A friend promise bracelet, dude. Robin Jones gun. What happened to you? Well, who who did what to you? Okay, um, so he stops in the middle of the road and then gets her out of the car and pulls her into the middle of an intersection. And he said, This is it. This is where we are. Because she's asking him, like, what are we? Are we dating? Like, what is this? And he's like, not, he's giving her shit like shady answers. This is where we are, somewhere in the middle, kind of like being right in the middle of the street. Christy's eyes shot past Todd to the spotlight. Then it hit her. This was their intersection. They were standing right in the middle of their intersection on New Year's Eve, dressed in the best clothes and stopping traffic. Todd, Christy laughed. This is crazy. I know, he said. Isn't it great? Then he pulls out the box and he says, I didn't know when to give this to you, but hey, now's as good a time as any. Go ahead, open it. She opens it, she says, Todd, it's beautiful. Read what it says. It says forever. Oh, Todd, this is so perfect. I love it. Thank you so much. It's exactly what you were just saying about being friends forever. You notice that too? And then blah, blah, blah. He helps her put it on. I really mean it, Chris. No matter what the future holds, no matter how many other guys you go out with or how many miles separate us, a part of you. Oh my god. A part of you will always be right here. He pats his chest. You're in my heart. You're my friend. You're my friend. I honestly don't know where we go from here, but I'm not worried. God knows. All I know is we're gonna spend eternity together with him. And this is my friend. Oh this bracelet is my way of saying, Here's my friendship. I promise it to you, it's yours forever. She feels close to Todd and close to God, and then he they see fireworks going off, so she's like, Oh, it must be midnight. And he says, uh, Happy New Year, and then he kisses her. Um, and then he kisses her on the forehead. He kisses her. Yeah, he kisses her tenderly, and then he uh opens her car door, and then he um What? He like puts her in the car and then he kisses her on the forehead as like a friend. And then he said, What I God's love for us goes on forever, and that's how he wants us to love each other. Then she's like apologizing for being a brat. What is it giving? It's giving Ryan in the office whenever he's like mad that Kelly is like dating that doc, the pediatrician, and so he like does that whole ceremony gets on the horse and he's like, I promise to love you forever, or until I don't feel like it anymore.

unknown 1:15:58

Yes, exactly.

Abigail 1:16:00

Um he said, I okay, so she asks him what they are too, and he says, I don't think there's a word for it. It's something between friends and boyfriend, girlfriend. Like you and Tracy were saying the other day at my house, because they were talking about we need a word between like and love. Um, I really care about you, Christy. I don't want to cut you off from any of your other friends. Um my god. That's effectively what you are doing by leaving her in this ambiguous. Exactly, exactly. He's like, uh, we're friends, Christy, true friends, real friends. What that means exactly, I guess we'll have to figure out as we go along. One thing I know for sure is no matter what happens to either of us, no matter what the future holds, we're gonna be best friends forever. He sucks. So, how did this age for you? I mean, about as well as I expect. I mean, yeah, it wasn't uh I I don't think there's anything like inherently awful about this, like some of the other stuff we read. I do think it's not what I would want a child to be learning about the world. Um, but it could have been a lot worse. And I think it's like again, it's very after school special. It's like clear what it's trying to communicate, and I think it gets its point across unsubtly, you know. Um, so yeah. I think it's like a little less insidious than some other iterations of this book might be because it's so on its face about what it's about. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So like you're not getting like subtly brainwashed, you're just like getting offered a perspective that you could either pick up or put down. Sure. I do want to say, um, so I did have to Google when do Christy and Todd finally get together. Uh I wasn't prepared um for this memory, which I don't remember. Not until college. So she's 15. In the Christy Miller the college years, they have been friends for over five years. They have the friendship bracelet, but she wants more. She travels across Europe for three weeks with her best friend Katie. Um, and she wonders if Todd will ever move forward in their relationship. At the end of their journey, Todd tells Christy he loves her, but she doesn't feel she can say it back until she knows it in the depths of her heart. During a youth group retreat to the desert, she realizes she loves Todd. Before she has a chance to tell him, Todd is involved in a terrible car wreck that leaves his body permanently scarred. Christy tells Todd she loves him over and over while he is unconscious in the hospital. She finally gets a chance to coherently reveal her feelings to him during a breakfast picnic on the beach. She thinks that once she admits she loves him, Todd will get down on his knee and ask her to marry him, but he doesn't. Weeks go by, weeks, and Christy wonders when Todd will ask her. Shortly before Christmas break, as they gather with their college friends at a local restaurant. With their college friends at a local restaurant, Ted pops a question and Christy says, Yes. The next six months are filled with excitement and frustration as Christy and Todd make wedding plans and realize their differences. They rely on God to draw him close them closer to him and closer to each other as they prepare for her future together. That is how they finally end up together. Which I was not prepared for, to be frank with you, and do not like in the slightest. So uh yeah, I was not prepared for how much I would hate Todd. How romantic. So I'm so sorry. Um yeah, but it is giving very like group dates, be friends, be friends, be friends, and then get married. Um, which is certainly a perspective. You're ready to get married. Yes. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I don't know. It's just interesting. I don't think that that is the best way, but I think it's probably better than courting. Yeah, I agree. I think I actually think that part of this, it's again, like maybe a little different than what I would now believe, obviously. But like I do think there is something of like healthy about telling younger Christian girls, especially, like, you can not take things super seriously. Focus on your friends. Um, you can kiss a guy and it's like not that big of a deal, and like go on a date, but like don't get so serious and like all consumed. Because I did see, I think, you know, myself, people I know, the courting mindset throws you into like a very serious relationship very quickly when you're really young, and that can be like not a healthy thing when it again cuts you off from your friends, like he said. So I get where it's coming from. If a guy said that to someone that was my friend, I want to be your friend forever, and then I'm gonna kiss you, I would not want that for my friend. But I do understand what the message is trying to be. Friends don't kiss like that, so anyways, um, it could have been worse, yeah. But I didn't have a good time reading it because I do think the writing is quite poor. So all right, but thanks for doing this. This was like a you know, much awaited episode by me wanting to talk about it, so yeah. I'm glad we I'm glad we did it. There's a lot to talk about. Obviously, we've been talking about it for like an hour and a half, so yes, and shout out to There was much to say, yeah. Yeah, shout out Marty. I really now I want to see, actually, let me see really quick. Archive of our do I need to get into Bob Marty fan fiction writing? If you guys see any pop-up, you'll know. Uh, I don't see any. It's not um it's not like a established fandom. Yes. I'm gonna write a lengthy, e-rated fan fiction about Bob and Marty and how they got together. I I need that. So if anyone's interested, hit me up. I'll I'll consider that as my next project. All right. Um, have you read anything good lately? Let's see, I've read a couple things. Um, I read The Complete Mouse uh collection by Art Spiegelman. This is a very cool take. It's a very famous uh graphic novel collection, and it is a retelling, it's like Art Spiegelman interviews his father who survived the Holocaust. And he's like throughout the story is telling the story of how he got the interview from his father, his father's time and um Auschwitz. And um, I mean, yeah, it's obviously about the Holocaust, so you know, it's about the Holocaust. But um I think there's a lot here. There's like the depiction of the different um like identities of people, like the Nazis, the Jews, the Poles, the Americans, they're all the to depict it as different types of animals, and there's a lot of discourse online about that, about like the messaging behind that, what it means, um strong opinions like for and against. Like there's a lot here, and um, it was really good. The art was good, the the story was really compelling, and yeah, I'm glad I read it. Um, it was timely. Yeah, okay. It was timely. I've definitely seen that um recommended around, so yeah. Yeah, it was good. I on your recommendation read I think that I think they love you by Julian Winters. Uh-huh. I didn't like it. Okay. That's fine. Which is okay. You've given me so many good recommendations. I know, it's hit or miss. I didn't connect to the characters in the same way that you did, which I don't think there's any solving for that. I just didn't connect to them. Yeah. Um and I think, I don't think it was a bad book, but I just everything about it felt too like iPhone for me. I guess. You know what I mean? Like it was so contemporary that I was almost like, why are you know, like when there's like a song lyric in a book, like a television lyric, and you're like, eh, this shouldn't be in a book. Yeah. Like that, that was my that was my own personal bias again. Sure, sure. No, that was um I was like, okay, I didn't connect with this, but that's okay. And then um, I also, in preparation for a couple episodes from now, we're gonna be doing, we're gonna be revisiting Project Hail Mary. Next episode. I myself have revisited Project Hill Mary. And the first time I read it, I read it with my eyes, but I've always heard such great things about the audiobook, and the audiobook is extremely good. Okay. And Rocky has like a voice in the book. Yeah. It's in it's it's really good. Okay. I did have to restart my Audible Free Trial to read it. But um, I've been enjoying that. And I have something else that's good that I have it's kind of gone on the back burner the last few days, but I am excited to tell you about it next time we record. I can't wait. Because um, I think you're really gonna like it. Cool. I'm so excited. Anyways, what about you? I have basically read nothing, but I do have one that I finished, um, which is another Kara Bastone, which I recommended two of her books already. This is her most recent release. Um, yes, it's called No Matter What. It was so good. So good, you guys. Okay, so I luckily got approved for an arc. Love when that happens. I didn't even think to request it until like a week before it came out, and I was like, wait, I could try. Got it, so was really excited. Um, because I was so desperate to read it, and I knew it was gonna be forever dolls at my library. So, anyways, um, thank you guys for supporting the podcast. But okay, so it follows um Roz and Vinny, and they are married. They've been married for eight years. Roz is like yeah, interesting character. Um, she works at a it's really she writes these characters the most interesting jobs, but she has works at this like food bank where basically they have this program, basically kind of like a CSA program, but it's like leftover food ingredients that people can buy a box of. And she writes recipes to go with the boxes so that people know how to like use that job. It's amazing. It would be perfect for you, I think. It's like a part-time position, and like she does some other stuff, but it's just sounds so cool. Like every week she tests recipes and like figures out ways to make these like this collection of ingredients work for people so that they're not like getting this box and then things go to waste. So, anyways, um, that's her job. Her husband's like strong, silent, blue-collar worker, New Yorker, Italian, American, all those stereotypes you can imagine. A year earlier, they were involved in this like horrific freak accident that has left them both traumatized. And also involved was um Vinny, the man's uh younger brother, who was um Roz's best friend, and that's how they met through him. And he was the most horrifically injured. So he moves in with them for the year. He's like being nursed back to health, doing rehab, like all this stuff. Um, but the both of them are also injured, also healing, and this year happens, and they are so focused on helping the brother that they like have drifted apart and like they can't talk about anything, they can't communicate. He moves out, and there's just like gulf between them. And Vinny may or may not be moving out, they may or may not be getting a divorce, but they like can't talk about it. Oh, and so they're in this place, okay. They talk about it just because they just like they just can't communicate, yeah. They're just struggling to communicate with each other, and it's really I think relatable because I think like when you've been with someone for a long time, it's easy to like be like, this is how we relate to each other, and then something awful could happen, and it's like, or just time, and it's like, hey, this old way we used to relate to each other isn't working anymore, and that can be really hard to like figure out okay, how are we gonna communicate through this anyway? So Roz ends up like joining this art class by a weird twist of events and learning how to do figure drawing, so she's like looking at nude models, but it's like very poignant. Um and yeah, it's about them like finding their way back to each other. I love this because they never break up, they don't actually get divorced, they're still living together for the entirety of this book, although they're sleeping in separate rooms and like not really interacting as much at the beginning. But it's Like, I don't know, it was just to me, like I said in my review, I've never read a book like this, a romance book, because it doesn't follow that traditional like plot structure because they already are together and they don't ever break up. So it's not, you don't have like a third act breakup and you don't have like a meet cute. It's just like these two people who like love each other a lot but have been through something really awful and have to find a way to like heal and get to the other side. Also, without spoiling, if you are like kicked in the face by the parts of like bride and mate, where you get the glimpse into the male main character's head, uh-huh. You will love this book. Um, there's a a very smart choice the author makes to show you because Vinny doesn't communicate, he doesn't, he's not very good at talking about his feelings, and but you get these little glimpses through a storytelling device um into how he's thinking and how he's feeling and how much he loves her and how much they're both trying really, really hard and how painful that can be. And so um, it was so good. It was so good, like it was so good, and I love a second chance romance, but to me, this is like almost not even a second chance romance because it's like again, they're still together. It's just like I don't know, I just liked that of like the happily ever after. You guys know I hate epilogues. Sometimes the happily ever after happens, and then like more things happen, and I think there's love stories that can be told in established relationships that can be just as compelling. Yeah, I want to read it now. Did you get it on that? Did you get it on that going? I did. It should still be available. So highly recommend no matter what by Kara Bastone and let me know what you think. Okay, really interested. I'm interested. I do think maybe this isn't for everyone, but I don't know. I think if you like established relationship stuff, if you like like the long game, for example, more than heater driver, maybe this would be good for you. I don't know, just like it gets exhausting. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. To like have a breakup. Yes. Yes. And I just love this, yeah. Cause I think like, I don't know. I think, yeah, it's just I don't know. I think there's a lot of angst in you both love each other so much. That's like a very and I love angst. So to me, that's like delicious to read because um, hey, like established from the beginning, we both love each other very deeply. We don't know how we're gonna get through this. Uh, and we'll have to find a way. So I thought it was really beautiful and lovely. And the little brother's a great character, so many great she just writes the best side characters, like all the art friends she meets and the co-workers, and the little brother and his like circle of friends. Like, they're just all interesting. I want to read books about all of them. So yeah, love it. Okay, I'll read it. Yeah, great. See you guys next time for Project Hail Mary. Bye. Bye. Wait, no, not no, not not quite. Yes, our next episode will be Project Hail Mary. Is Project Hail Mary? Yes. Okay, great. Okay, bye.

unknown 1:30:55

Bye.