AmeriServ Presents: Bank Chats

When Money Lies: Counterfeit Cash

• AmeriServ Financial, Inc. • Episode 30

Share episode

Comment via Text Message

Counterfeit cash feels like a throwback crime until it hits your register or wallet. Though you may never encounter a counterfeit bill, the amount in circulation would probably shock you. We unpack which bill is the prime target, how counterfeit networks operate, and what actually happens when a fake sneaks into everyday transactions.

Don't forget to share the episode with a friend who handles cash, subscribe for more clear-eyed money talk, and leave a review with your best counterfeit-detection tip. Your support helps more listeners stay safe this season.

Resources:
Practice Safe Checks
ameriserv.com/fraud

Credits:
An AmeriServ Financial, Inc. Production 
Music by SchneckMind
Hosted by Drew Thomas and Jeffrey Matevish

Thanks for listening! You can find out more about AmeriServ by visiting ameriserv.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

DISCLAIMER
This podcast focuses on having valuable conversations on various topics related to banking and financial health. The podcast is grounded in having open conversations with professionals and experts, with the goal of helping to take some of the mystery out of financial and related topics; as learning about financial products and services can help you make more informed financial decisions. Please keep in mind that the information contained within this podcast, and any resources available for download from our website or other resources relating to Bank Chats is not intended, and should not be understood or interpreted to be, financial advice. The hosts, guests, and production staff of Bank Chats expressly recommend that you seek advice from a trusted financial professional before making financial decisions. The hosts of Bank Chats are not attorneys, accountants, or financial advisors, and the program is simply intended as one source of information. The podcast is not a substitute for a financial professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation. AmeriServ Presents: Bank Chats is produced and distributed by AmeriServ Financial, Incorporated.

Drew Thomas:

Fast fact, counterfeit currency peaked in the United States during the Civil War as both the Union and Confederate governments each tried to subvert the other's economy. By the war's end, nearly 1/3 of all currency circulating in the United States was counterfeit. I'm Drew Thomas and you're listening to Bank Chats. So, Merry Christmas, Jeff.

Jeff Matevish:

Merry Christmas. Yeah, right before, yeah, yeah, right before. Are you ready for Christmas? You have a lot more shopping to do?

Drew Thomas:

I don't have, I don't have a ton. Okay, I at this point, I've gotten to a point in my life where I do try to plan ahead at least a little bit, yeah, but it's just, it's a very hectic time of year. Whenever I was a kid, it felt like this time of year went, took forever.

Jeff Matevish:

I know, you know, and now, now you blink, and it's gone, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

I mean, we'd be watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade whenever I was a kid, and I'd see Santa Claus coming in, and for me, was like, well, it's another year before I get to Christmas Day, and now there's just not enough time between decorating and then, you know, like planning, just, even just, like food and meals and all that kind of stuff. You know, it's, it's a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm happy to have family and friends to do that with, yes, but it's, it's a lot, yeah, yeah.

Jeff Matevish:

Now is the time when the UPS driver is at my house every day until Christmas.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, yeah. I there was a person delivering for UPS out of their car.

Jeff Matevish:

I had one of those the other day. Yep.

Drew Thomas:

I guess they just ran out of trucks.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, I guess, I don't know how that works.

Drew Thomas:

We, we've definitely gotten to a point in our society where I think more delivery, the deliveries are just crazy. They must absolutely pull their hair out at this time of year if you're a delivery person, of whether it's US mail, UPS, FedEx, it doesn't matter. God bless you, everyone. Yes, because.

Jeff Matevish:

Yes, I was at the local big box store, Walmart, the other day, and, yeah, I mean, the lines were ridiculous. I'd rather just go home and buy something online, and yeah, wait the two days than wait the 20 minutes in a line of 20 people at the store. Yeah.

Drew Thomas:

And you always, I know, for me personally, I always choose poorly. You know, well, my wife and I will be going, we'll be going there, and she'll say, pick a lane, and I will choose a lane. And inevitably, it is the wrong lane.

Jeff Matevish:

Oh, we split up. One in one, one and the other. And whoever starts to move a little bit faster, we'll just migrate over to the other.

Drew Thomas:

No, that's a good idea.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, yeah. See, I don't give my secrets away. Yeah, no, you got to. We'll probably cut that out. Anyway.

Drew Thomas:

Anyway, because it is the, the most wonderful time of the year, let's talk about how awful humanity can be. Okay, sounds good, and we're going to talk about counterfeiting. Counterfeiting, yay. So, so let's talk about what, whenever we say counterfeiting, what do we mean? What is counterfeiting?

Jeff Matevish:

We're talking about the like the reproduction or the manipulation of a currency for, for your gain, I guess, yeah, not legal, illegal.

Drew Thomas:

Very, yeah, no, very illegal, for sure. So, essentially, you know, I think we live in this world where everybody tries to make things look like, you know, makes it look real. The whole AI thing and trying to find it make, it's basically just the, it's one of the first types of, hey, let's make this look real and see if we can pass it off as, or maybe, you know, let's take this fake thing and see if we could pass it off as something real. Yeah, whether it's bills or money or other things, we can talk about all that as we get further into the discussion. But yeah, counterfeiting is, you know something, and we've never really talked about it on the show.

Jeff Matevish:

We've talked about other, other cybersecurity and security risks and stuff like that. But yeah, not, not this.

Drew Thomas:

Not so much currency. Yeah, yeah. So, so when did counterfeiting begin? Since we...

Jeff Matevish:

Back in the eight, the 18th century, back before our standard currency, banks used to be able to print their own, their own currency, so it was a lot easier for someone to say, hey, I'm going to change this one bank's paper money and pass it off as legitimate. Yeah.

Drew Thomas:

So, that's what, so that's when it started in the

Jeff Matevish:

So, when did it start outside of the US then? US. Yeah, right, is what we can say.

Drew Thomas:

My guess is probably sometime in ancient Rome, or before that, when they started, you know, because everybody just tried to pass off stuff as, as legal tender. And my guess. Is that the first piece of counterfeit currency emerged about a day after the first piece of real currency. Okay, knowing, knowing the way that humanity tends to go. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we're going to focus mostly on the US side of things. We might bring in a couple of other, you know, anecdotes, but generally speaking, you know, we can't cover every type of currency that's out there that's currently being counterfeited, right? But we live in the US, you know, the US dollar is pretty much the currency that everything is measured against.

Jeff Matevish:

It's used in other countries, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

I mean, right throughout the, you know, the world economy. So, we're going to kind of focus on that, yeah, no offense to anybody out there that uses other currencies like euros and Canadian dollars and all that stuff, loonies or whatever it is that they use up there, but that's what we're going to look at. So, so as an estimate about how much counterfeit currency is actually out there, how, I mean really.

Jeff Matevish:

More than I thought, yeah. Okay, so I read between 70 and $200 million in counterfeit currency is in circulation now, wow, yeah. And in 2000 what? 2023, $22 million in counterfeit cash was seized.

Drew Thomas:

That's, that's crazy.

Jeff Matevish:

That's a ton.

Drew Thomas:

So, when, so whenever you say seized, are you talking about, like they went into a warehouse and grabbed it, or are you talking about the stuff that's being turned in?

Jeff Matevish:

Both like, both, I mean, stuff that's turned in, and also stuff that, you know, that money that is entering our country from other countries, because, I mean, a lot of this counterfeit money is, is produced outside of the United States and shipped in.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's really crazy. So, you know, I guess the thing is, I don't know, with that amount of money out there, you would think that you'd be finding counterfeit bills in your wallet all the time, but I don't think I've ever come across one. I don't know about you. I know I did come across one indirectly when I worked for a different bank. Okay, there was a person that had one in there. Excuse me, had one in their deposit. I think they were from a small business that did a lot of like gas station or something like that. They had a lot of cash, and they, they were making a deposit, and the other teller that was working with them, they discovered a counterfeit bill in the mix, okay. And we can kind of talk about what happens when that, when that occurs, and that kind of stuff, yeah. But, so essentially...

Jeff Matevish:

Do you remember what bill that was?

Drew Thomas:

I'm pretty sure it was a 20, $20 bill. I'm pretty sure it was a $20 bill. Okay, yeah. So, to address this counterfeiting that you say, that you said, began in the 18th, 18th century. The US created the US Secret Service. And I think that's mostly what people think, that you know, when you say Secret Service, you imagine the guys in

Jeff Matevish:

They Oh, no, yeah, okay, I just the sunglasses, or women, yeah, wearing the, the earpieces and standing in suits, you know and but the US Secret Service was thought the Secret Service protected the president, and originally designed and still is tasked with detecting and removing counterfeit currency from the economic system, which is kind of interesting, yeah. And so, you asked me, what, what that's it. bill it was. Do you, do, was there a reason you asked that question? Yes, because the$20 bill is the most counterfeited US bill, at least, yeah, more so than, than any other bill. I guess it's more, I don't know, more bang for their buck, for the criminals to, you know, yeah, to counterfeit a $20 bill. But it's not as I don't know, not as risky to counterfeit $100 bill.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah. Not as scrutinized, scrutinized, yeah, yes, because I know when I go to retailers, now, they'll even do it with 20s now. But a lot of times, if you're trying to use a 50 or 100, out comes that pen man, yeah.

Jeff Matevish:

And yeah, it's calling the manager.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah. Am I allowed to check this? Well, and there are some places won't even take them, yeah, like, they'll, they'll have signs up that say we do not accept $100 bills or$50 bills, you know, which is ironic, because you say the 20s are the most counterfeited bill, and yet they're not, yeah, they're not excluding them, right, right. Be hard to do that, though I think it would be, yeah, yeah. So, if the most counterfeited denomination is the 20, but it's not just coins, or not just bills. Yeah, it's coins too. Yeah, foreshadowing. We're going to talk about some coins here for a second. Yeah, it's not just bills that are counterfeited. Coins are as well. Yeah. So, right.

Jeff Matevish:

Usually, for like, collectors, you know, certain pennies that were, you know, older pennies, the. 1909-S VDB Lincoln, or the 1914-D cent. So, those ones that it's because they, there were less minted, you know, okay, but there's other coins in history, the Morgan dollar, the silver Eagle, gold Eagle. Then those are, those are counterfeited quite often too.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, my dad, whenever I was a kid, he always said that he would love to have a double eagle, a gold double coin. And in my naivete, when I was a teenager and I got my first job, I thought, for Christmas, I'm going to get my dad a gold double eagle coin. He's always wanted one. And then I went to a coin shop, which is no longer in business in Johnstown, and I went in there, and I went and looked for one. And I was sorry dad, I mean, oh, my god, 10s of 1000s of dollars even then, yes, for a gold double eagle. So, I was like, yeah, that's not going to happen.

Jeff Matevish:

Well, these pennies, I mean, they're worth hundreds of 1000s of dollars if you have the right one too.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know. I mean, we

Jeff Matevish:

Actually, I think yeah. So, there, those have, kind of talked about the whole penny thing. I don't know if 2025 pennies will sometimes be some, at some point, be worth something, just because it was the last year they were minted. actually, the last minted pennies did go on auction a little while ago, and I can't remember, I didn't read what, what the outcome was, but they did sell, and I think they went for a pretty penny. I would assume they went for a pretty penny, more than two cents, right?

Drew Thomas:

Man, yeah. So, the other thing that I wanted to sort of touch on, too is, I know we're talking currency, but especially around this time of year, I think you see a lot of this stuff happening, and it's fake checks too. Yeah, you got to be careful about that kind of stuff. And I don't want to get too far off topic, because we are talking about counterfeit money, but, but just be aware of fake checks, because sometimes, and we're going to talk about this next, there's, there are ways that you can try to identify these things and find them in your, in your wallet or whatever. And some of the things that you look for on currency are similar to what you might look for on a, on a check. You want to look at what the checks printed on, if it's printed on printer paper, like the stuff you buy at Staples. It's probably not a legitimate check. Most checks are on a heavier bonded paper than that. The ink that is used, you want to look at that. You want to look for things like the MICR line. There's a line of numbers at the bottom of your check. If you get out of a check, yeah. Look at account number. Has your account and routing numbers. You want to make sure that that's there, that it doesn't rub off when you use your, your thumb, yeah, and try to rub on it. A lot of checks will also have, and we're going to talk about similar things on bills, they'll have, like, heat holograms that you can, if you, if you sort of hold your thumb over that little spot, it'll, it'll turn pink, and it'll have, like, a little bell, or a little something in there that is heat sensitive, yeah, to be able to see what's there. Yeah, perforations on the edge of the check.

Jeff Matevish:

Like where it came out of the book?

Drew Thomas:

Yeah. So, most checks are going to have a perforated edge, either on the top or the side, and at least one, if not two, yeah, if the check that you have has no perforated edge whatsoever, that's not necessarily an indicator that it's fraudulent, but it's a reason to question it. Yeah, it's definitely something that should make you at least look at it harder. Yeah, yeah. If there's no perforated edge on the check. Other things too that you want to be careful of too, and banks are, I don't want to say, part of the problem, but when you first open an account, a checking account at a bank, sometimes your bank will give you counter checks or they'll give you starter checks. But those counter checks and starter checks won't have your name and address, and everything pre-printed in the top left corner.

Jeff Matevish:

No, it's the same for every account, right, right.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, it'll just be kind of, so a lot of businesses won't take counter checks or starter checks because they don't know that it's not pre-printed with your name and address and all your contact information on there. And it's a little easier, maybe, to potentially create a fraudulent counter check or whatever, because you don't have to worry about that part of it on there. Same thing with check numbers. Sometimes, you know, businesses will, will question it if you are a new checking account, and if you just start with like the standard 001, check, some places will sort of question it. Okay. Now if you're 18 years old, it's probably less likely that they're going to check a, yeah, yeah. They'd say, like, hey, you know this is only check number seven you've ever written. But if, but if it's a 65-year-old woman that's trying to go to Giant Eagle and write a check check 001, they're probably...

Jeff Matevish:

They just open that checking account.

Drew Thomas:

Yes, yeah. I mean, maybe, but, but you can actually request your, what numbers you want your checks to start with. Yes. So, even if you are a younger person, or it is your first checking account or something, you may want to actually request that the checks begin with a higher value, just to avoid that. So, yeah, just, you know, be aware of and, I mean, it's, it's crazy what they can do. They can wash checks now and all that stuff.

Jeff Matevish:

Oh, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, use, use pens. Don't use pencil to write your checks. Yeah, yeah. There's a, there's a good website practicesafechecks.org. Oh yeah, that's a good, good website to look at to, to learn more about check writing safety. Yeah.

Drew Thomas:

So, so keep all that in mind as we transition rather clunky, back to currency. So, what are some of the things you could look at on a bill to determine whether or not it's real?

Jeff Matevish:

It depends on the denomination, but you can look at the, there's a security strip in some bills. There's you can look at the fibers, just the composition of the bill itself, because bills are not what?

Drew Thomas:

They are not paper, they are not paper. They are not paper. You're absolutely right. So what? So, what do you look for like?

Jeff Matevish:

So, you are looking for little blue and red fibers that are actually woven into the bill itself.

Drew Thomas:

How patriotic?

Jeff Matevish:

Yes, right, right. You can, you can usually tell whether that was like printed, or if it was actually part of the bill, because you can actually see the depth of that bill a little bit.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, you're right. There's sort of a, I don't know, it's not three dimensional, but.

Jeff Matevish:

Right, but you can tell if it's printed versus part of the bill itself, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

And speaking of printing, you really can't, and you said they're not paper, if you, if you have a counterfeit piece of currency and it doesn't feel right, even if it is on it's, it's one of those things where the composition of whatever it's, the cloth, the cotton, or whatever that you have, mostly money is, it has a certain feel. And most people that have handled money for longer than a couple of years can usually tell there's just something that doesn't feel right about a bill that isn't made the right way. Yeah, so pay attention to that.

Jeff Matevish:

If you're even the ink, it's usually, I mean, you have raised ink because it's a thicker, like tar, like ink they use for that. So, you're not going to get that out of a regular printer, right?

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, your inkjet, whatever it is, is not going to do that right, right. Exactly. And that ink on a legitimate bill is designed to withstand, you know, being handled by potentially millions of people going through the laundry and all that kind of stuff. I mean, it's...

Jeff Matevish:

Money laundering, right?

Drew Thomas:

Money, money laundering, exactly the only legal money laundering you can do, yeah. So, yeah. So, there's, there's that to consider. There are we said about on the checks, the heat stuff, on $100 bills, there's a hologram now. Yeah, we've, we've entered the 21st Century on the hundreds, at least, where you can see there's, if...

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, they say tilt, tilt is a way to be able to tell if that changes colors.

Drew Thomas:

Right, right, yeah, yeah, or yeah, you can see that it goes from like, 100 to USA, or something like that, there are watermarks.

Jeff Matevish:

Uh huh, presidential portrait, yeah,

Drew Thomas:

Presidential portraits. So, there's a yeah.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, the border of the bills, that's, that's not watermark on that, micro-printing. We kind of touched on that in one of the other episodes, I think. actually a line. That's actual text.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, on some of them, if you, if you look at it closely, and you can get out, like the macro lens on your camera or something like that, you can tell that it's..

Jeff Matevish:

It's funny, because after we had recorded

Drew Thomas:

I'll have to see if I can find one and show you. I that episode, I did take a magnifying glass to, and I didn't have a good enough magnifying glass to tell, but yeah, I really wanted to see if it had something in particular. don't know if it's on the one, but I'm pretty sure it's on

Jeff Matevish:

I probably checked a one. Yeah. some.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, there, I mean, there are less well-known ways to look at things, like the letter that's in the circle on a, on a $1 bill. There are only certain letters that are used. That's true, yeah. So, if you see one that has a letter that isn't typically M or above.

Jeff Matevish:

That's where it was printed, yeah, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

So, you know, keep that in mind. If the signature from the Secretary of the Treasury is Alexander Hamilton, he's been dead a long time.

Jeff Matevish:

He was and it was a 2017 bill.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, maybe not real. So, let's talk about too, what makes something counterfeit versus like play money?

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, so they, like motion picture money, that would be a play money. It clearly states on it for motion picture only. Yeah, you're not trying to pass that off as legal tender, right. You're not spending that. You're using that for, not for not, not for a transaction, I guess. Yeah.

Drew Thomas:

So, keep that in mind too, that if you're buying play money for your kids to learn how to make change, things like that, that's not counterfeit. Yeah, you'll typically find that they are not the right size. They either have to be larger or smaller than real currency. I think you were saying that even most printers won't even print, yeah, the right size, right? Yeah.

Jeff Matevish:

It'll, it'll say something to the effect of this can't be printed, or it'll black it out all together.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, there's that, you can sort of keep in mind that having play money in your house for your kids or whatever, or if you're, if you're making a movie or something, that's not illegal to have that, it's designed to look similar to, but not identical to, right, money, right, right. So, that's, that's a key differentiator there. So, what I guess the next question becomes, is, if I encounter one of these things, or I accept one of these things, what happens to me? Okay.

Jeff Matevish:

What you should do is take note of the person, what they look like. If you can get a make, model, license plate of a car, make sure you keep that bill in a separate area so you don't get it mixed up with your legitimate currency. And you're supposed to turn that into the authorities, the police. Okay, so in a perfect world, that's what you would do, but you know, you may not be able to track, I mean, if, if I was, you know, accepting a bill and it ends up being counterfeit, I don't know if I'd right then and there, know that it's counterfeit. So, you know, chances are, you know, you're not going to know that, what the person looked like, unless you have cameras or something like that to go back and review.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, and most likely, if that's the case, you're probably a business. Yeah, right, right. So, I would imagine a lot of major retailers, they have cameras. They can see that kind of stuff. A lot of small businesses probably still do now as well, because security systems and cameras aren't as expensive as they may have been in the 1980s, 90s. So, a lot of people have little Blink cameras or Ring cameras or something like that, at least in their business to sort of add some security. I'm always amused whenever I see video like that on TV of somebody that has either committed some sort of a crime or theft or something like that, and the quality is terrible on those cameras. Yeah, it's absolutely abysmal. And I think to myself, you, the CIA can read a license plate from space, but people can't get clear video of someone who's shoplifting in a big box store from 20 feet away? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you're right. But if you can, whatever information you can provide to the authorities could be helpful in helping to identify the person. Is, I think what you're trying to say, right, right. The other side of it is, you know, you might accidentally pass one, I guess, if you, if you think about it like if you, if you have, if you take one in, let's start with that. So, we said, you know, what happens if you, if you find one, if you accept one, okay, what happens to you? I mean.

Jeff Matevish:

If you do the right thing, you know, chances are you're okay, right? Yeah. I mean, if you, if you turn it in, your chances are you're not going to be accused of using that because you're not, you're not knowingly using that as legal tender, right. Yeah.

Drew Thomas:

So, so there's a difference between, I guess, accepting one and then doing the right thing, about trying to turn it in, yeah, versus trying to pass one. And that's definitely what you don't want to do. You may think that turning it in is a little daunting. To walk into a police station or something like that and say, hey, I have this counterfeit money. Yeah, I admit that, that could be kind of like, oh, what's going to happen to me? Yeah, but it's far, far better than if you take it to the local store and try to get rid of it by buying something and they catch you. That's true, because now you're an active participant in the counterfeiting problem. Yep, because you knew that it was counterfeit, you tried to pass it on, right.

Jeff Matevish:

Right, and don't destroy it. At least they need to have record of it.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah, don't, don't, don't just destroy it or burn it, or have something like that. So, the other, the other place that a lot of places find them is in banks. Like I said, like we, you know, there was somebody that caught one. Banks are legally obligated to report it, so if a counterfeit bill comes through the teller line or something, we, were it's not up to us. You can't say hey, you know, I'm sorry about that, don't, don't say anything to anybody. We are legally required to report that we received a counterfeit bill. We will ask, you know, we will take your information as the person that presented it, and you will not get your money back. You will not get your money back.

Jeff Matevish:

You will not get reimbursed, right.

Drew Thomas:

And the simplest way that I can explain that to people is that you didn't give me money, so I can't give it back to you.

Jeff Matevish:

That's good, yeah, you're right.

Drew Thomas:

You gave me a piece of paper. Yes, that looks like money, yes. So, no, the bank will not make you whole. The bank will not say, oh, well, here's a real 50 to replace the one, even if it was completely accidental on your part. Unfortunately, the, to use another bad acronym, idiom, the buck has to stop somewhere, yes, and it stops with you at that point. So, you were the last person to accept it. You get stuck with the fact that you don't get any money back for it.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, the chances of you finding a counterfeit bill, though, are pretty slim, right?

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, despite how much you said, is actually in circulation. You're right. It's pretty unlikely that most people will ever encounter one, and I think largely it's just because, despite what a lot of retailers may think, you and I and the average person, are probably not trying to pass counterfeit 20s across the, across the, the till at the local, you know, beer distributor or something like that. They're, they're just not. The counterfeiting is coming from other, other areas. What happens to you if you do pass one, like, let's, let's talk about that for a minute. Like, so, okay, let's, let's just imagine that you didn't listen to this podcast, and you didn't tell your friends, and that makes me sad, because you really should be telling your friends to listen to this. Like and share. Yeah, like and share. It's the Christmas season, dang it. Like and share this. The say, you say you decide, oh my gosh, I don't, I don't want to turn this in. I can't believe I got caught with this counterfeit$20 bill, and I do try to pass it on. What can happen to me?

Jeff Matevish:

It could cost you a pretty penny in terms of your next few years. So, you could, you could face up to 20 years in federal prison, but you could face charges in like your state criminal justice system too. You could, yeah, face 15 years, as in a local prison, and then 20 years on top of that in federal prison.

Drew Thomas:

Wow. Yeah, so you're talking, I mean, time is really money at that point, time is definitely money. Or money is time. Yeah, however you want to look at it.

Jeff Matevish:

20 years for passing a $20 bill. That's, that's fake. It's, yeah. I mean, that's that dollar per year.

Drew Thomas:

The other thing I was looking at, too, I'm trying Yeah. to find it in my notes here, misdemeanor charges for, they carry, could carry up to a$1,000 fine. Misdemeanor fraud occurs when the property procured fraudulently has a market value between $250, $250 and $500 okay, going down through I'm not going to read all these things, but fraud, just like any other thing, like a felony charge happens at a certain dollar value. So, you either have state, misdemeanor, state, local laws that handle misdemeanors and things like that. Felonies typically kick in at like the $10,000 mark. So, for the, if the, if the fraud, of whatever it is, the theft, whatever it is, is over 10 grand, it's probably going to fall into federal court. At that point you end up with felony charges. Okay. And fourth degree felony occurs when the property taken costs between $500 and$2,500. Fourth degree felony faces a basic sentence of 18 months in prison. So, that's I guess, I guess felony charges could happen under 10 grand as well, too then. But a lot of times it's the locals that take care of that. Fraudulently obtained property with a market value exceeding $20,000 is a second-degree felony, carries a basic sentence of nine years in prison. And obviously there are, there are other charges involved in this too, because you're going to have to pay lawyers, and you're not going to get reimbursed for your legal charges. And it's just not worth it. It is not worth the crime. Yeah, it's just not, they really, they really throw the book at you, and rightly so, yeah, for doing such a thing. So, you know, keep that in mind that you know, sometimes we have this feeling of the hand caught in the cookie jar, and you think, oh my gosh, I just got to get rid of this thing, right, right.

Jeff Matevish:

Don't, don't, don't. Act fast, yeah, yeah. You know, think about what you're doing, yeah, right.

Drew Thomas:

You just have to get rid of it the right way. So, so yeah, I think that pretty much covers all the, all the basics. But I thought that it was important to talk about this because we, like I said before, when we started the show, we've never really discussed this. We discuss a lot of other scams and fraud, and believe me, those are things you want to keep an eye out for too this time of year, you know, whether it's a romance scam or buying stuff from the wrong website. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's so many different things, and you can find more information about all that stuff at our website too. If you go to ameriserv.com/fraud, there's lots of good information there about things that you can look out for to try to keep yourself safe. Yeah.

Jeff Matevish:

I think right now we have shopping tips on how to keep yourself safe with shopping. So, that's, yeah, very timely, yes.

Drew Thomas:

Very timely, yes. But this is, this is important, and a lot of people don't realize that it still happens. I mean, there are, there are cases, usually in the news, we just had one not that long ago, where a business came across a fake, what is a fake $50 or fake$100? Something like that.

Jeff Matevish:

I thought it was a $20, but yeah.

Drew Thomas:

It might have been a $20, yeah. So, it definitely

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, it doesn't have to happen in a big city does happen, just because you're unlikely to encounter it in your personal life. either. I mean, it happens locally in small cities, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

Sure, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. Other than that, I don't know. I think, I think maybe we can, we can give people an early out for the holidays.

Jeff Matevish:

Okay, so happy, happy shopping if you're not done yet, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, if you're not done shopping yet, you're in trouble, because this is going to air what, on the 20, 23rd, today is right?

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, today, sometimes it's the fun of it, the last-minute shopping.

Drew Thomas:

I sometimes did. Now, did you ever, know you worked fast food? Did you ever work retail? No, no, no, yeah, retail was, Christmas Eve was the revenge of retail. I'll tell you. Yeah. You know, real rush. Well, it would not only just the rush, but like, you know, up until Christmas Eve, there was always the whole well, can you get it from another store? Can you help me out? Yeah, can you, can you order it? You know, whatever it is. Christmas Eve, it's, it's whatever's here is what you get. Oh, true, you know, I mean, it's, today's the day. Yeah, you got to pick something, you know, yep, yep. And if you're a husband looking for something for your wife on Christmas Eve and you come home with a trash can that's on you buddy.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, you're at our mercy. Right, right.

Drew Thomas:

You better duck and cover at that point. Yeah, did you, and I guess we can't say, did you get anything? We don't talk about what it is, but did you get anything good for your, for your wife?

Jeff Matevish:

Did I? Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

Is she going to be happy in two days. Yeah. Well, no, you're now okay, so this may be a little personal, but do you celebrate? Because your wife celebrates a little later than you, right?

Jeff Matevish:

So, yes, so she's, she's Orthodox, okay, so we celebrate both, okay, yeah, because her family on her family, her one, one parent is Orthodox, the other one is not, okay, celebrate, you know, Christmas at a normal time. So, yeah.

Drew Thomas:

Does she get two sets of gifts, is that?

Jeff Matevish:

She gets one gift at Orthodox Christmas and all the other gifts at the Christmas that everyone else celebrates.

Drew Thomas:

Okay, gotcha, yeah, all right.

Jeff Matevish:

So, but we have to keep a tree up until after Orthodox Christmas, which, yeah, okay, I would take the tree down the day after Christmas. But that's not my, my decision.

Drew Thomas:

Yeah, that's I, respectfully disagree with you. I have that argument with my wife all the time. She, she'd be the same as you. She'd be like, December 26th, take it down.

Jeff Matevish:

Let's get back to normal.

Drew Thomas:

And my attitude is that it is the Christmas season. I try to, so my sort of compromise with her has been, it's got to stay up until after New Year's.

Jeff Matevish:

Yeah, my compromise is, it comes down when she says, it comes down.

Drew Thomas:

So, you're, you're more forgiving than I am. That's, yeah, so well anyway, but, but happy Christmas to you. Merry Christmas. Happy, happy holidays. Holidays, seasons greetings and yeah, I guess we'll see everybody and talk to everybody in the new year. I can't believe it 2026.

Jeff Matevish:

It's going to be a good one. I hope so. All right, take care, we'll see you, Drew. This podcast focuses on having valuable conversations on various topics related to banking and financial health. The podcast is grounded in having open conversations with professionals and experts with the goal of helping to take some of the mystery out of financial and related topics, as learning about financial products and services can help you make more informed financial decisions. Please keep in mind that the information contained within this podcast and any resources available for download from our website or other resources relating to Bank Chats is not intended and should not be understood or interpreted to be financial advice. The hosts, guests, and production staff of Bank Chats expressly recommend that you seek advice from a trusted financial professional before making financial decisions. The hosts of Bank Chats are not attorneys, accountants, or financial advisors, and the program is simply intended as one source of information. The podcast is not a substitute for a financial professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.

Drew Thomas:

For many of us, the term 21st Century still conjures up images of the future, but the reality is that we are about to conclude the first 25% of that timeframe just eight days from when this episode is first released. And we tend to think of money in 21st Century terms, like debit cards, credit cards, Zelle or Apple Pay, but over 80% of US adults still used cash for at least some of their spending over the past year. And the counterfeit money detection market, yes, that is a thing, is valued at nearly $4 billion and rising thanks to the difficulty in detecting counterfeit money made by counterfeiters using advanced technology. While the overall incidence rate is low, the impact can be significant, as businesses and individuals bear the cost of any counterfeit money they may accept. Keep in mind that if you do find one, reporting it to the authorities, will cost you far less in the long run than it would if you tried to rid yourself of it by passing it on to someone else. AmeriServ Presents Bank Chats is produced and distributed by AmeriServ Financial, Incorporated. Music by SchneckMind. Our executive producer and co-host is Jeffrey Matevish. Please consider liking and or subscribing to the show, as it really helps us reach a wider audience. For now, I'm Drew Thomas, so long.

Head Shot

Drew Thomas

Host