Remaining Spiritual After Leaving The Church | Ep 62 | Moral Combat

In Episode 62 of the Moral Combat Podcast, hosts Zach and Nathan open up about their journey from a strict evangelical Christian upbringing to finding their own spiritual paths. They share their experiences with leaving the church, the resultant feelings of loss and emptiness, and how they have since embraced alternative spiritual practices. Their candid discussions touch on the healing power of meditation, gratitude, and plant medicines like cannabis and psychedelics, and how these have helped them redefine their spiritual lives. The episode highlights the importance of community and support in their journeys, and also features a playful Nintendo gaming session, showcasing their approach to balancing deep introspection with lighthearted joy.

Moral Combat, hosted by siblings Nathan and Zach Blaustone, is a heartfelt exploration of life's complexities, with a primary focus on healing from religious trauma. Step into their world as they navigate the realms of music production, confront the lingering echoes of religious trauma, and embrace laughter as a universal healer. With each episode, Nathan and Zach weave together their unique perspectives, seasoned with dynamic personalities that make every discussion an engaging adventure. From unraveling the complexities of personal growth to fostering open communication, healing the scars of religious indoctrination, and embracing the unfiltered authenticity of siblinghood, Moral Combat is your passport to thought-provoking conversations, heartfelt insights, and the pure joy of shared moments. Join us in the combat for morality, one conversation at a time.

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0:01

EE ee ee o o for its act. Lurker Mortal Kombat fans. My name is Zack. Hi everybody. I'm Nathan and he is my brother. We are siblings and this is the Mortal Kombat podcast. Yes, this is the Mortal Kombat podcast. What is this podcast about, little brother? Well, me, my little brother. We don't normally talk like that anymore, but he's trying to trigger me as we can, as the listeners are viewers. Pointing out that before the camera started rolling. I was respecting you and telling you how beautiful you looked. But how is that disrespectful? That is exactly what happened. Yeah, it's. Identical. Continue saying what our podcast is about. Our podcast is a podcast where we talk about religious trauma and the trauma coming out of the Calvary Chapel Christian Evangelical Church. We are both raised hyper religious in the evangelical Christian church with the father as a pastor, still as a pastor, but we have quite a bit of trauma from it, and this podcast has allowed us to talk about it openly and to heal personally. I think that we have been healing exceptionally in life. Yes. I think I have a lot less trauma. Yes. Because we've been doing this for over a year now. We have. This. We did a lot of healing before we had this podcast. This podcast has opened the door for a different type. Of we're just bringing the conversation, we're bringing it up. We believe that the conversation can be healing. Yes, it is. Nate wants to ask. About your outfit. Today. Yeah, I'm wearing one of my Christmas outfits because every holiday season I am. I. Am celebrating capitalism on a regular basis for during the holidays by buying new Christmas outfits every single season. So my white turtleneck, if you're listening, it's a white turtleneck going up all the way to my chin. Yeah, it's quite it's quite the turtleneck. You look richer. Thank you. Yeah, it makes you look like you are. You own a. Couple of these houses, right? Personally, I don't want to look richer. We, my fiance and I just got back from a little getaway. We just. We went on vacation together. Alone. That's not visiting family. Not visiting family. So we went away. Nice. And she works at a resort as a server, at the restaurant, at this resort, nice in town. And so she gets access to 50% off other resorts around the country. Nice. And just to clarify for our listeners and our viewers, it's a five star resort. Very fancy. And when you get half off, it's it's it's like, wow, that's expensive still. Because we're poor. Yeah. You know, But. It's like, hey, I want to do something really nice and we can kind of. Afford that. So if I look rich, then I probably look like one of the guests. I'd be attending that resort. Now, let me. I don't want to look like those. People when you pull up to these places, because I know a little something about these types of places. Everyone treats you as if, man, they've never seen someone as perfect and beautiful as you, and they would suck on your toes if they needed to, to keep you. Happy. they would. Mr.. Mr.. BLYSTONE But you say that they said. Mr. Foust. Mr. Foust, thanks for being here. That's right. Now, how many? How many? I assist you, Mr. Fast. Did you like being treated that way? It's because my fiancee put her name right. Everything was through her. And so every door was like. Welcome back, Mr. Fast New Year. You have our last name as siblings is Blackstone. Me and my fiance. They are going to get married next year. She wants me to take her last name. Not going to happen. Totally understandable. Totally noncommercial on. This podcast where we're constantly breaking down traditions. No, that's. Not. is that a wall? Let's break it down. No, it's not going to happen. And so I've. Considered it that was great was I actually enjoyed. It. I felt like a. I don't know, like it made me kind of like every time they'd open up the door, you know, because everything was valet. Yeah, It's like. Hi there, Mr. Foust. I'd be like, Yeah, it's like it a good feeling. Yeah. So I don't know, you know? Okay. Anyways, I didn't. It's hard being rich when you're not rich, you know, It's like a lifestyle. These people are good. They like, want people to treat them this way. Yeah, I was always trying to like, you know, they'd open the door and their faces are like, Hi there. Mr.. Hi there, Mr.. Mr.. Fast How is your day? Then You're like, Are they treating you? Are you okay? And that's what they're told to treat you. Now. It's like everyone's being treated a certain way. They go through a whole week process learning how to treat the rich. Right? there you go. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They call it. Actually, I can't even say what they call it now. We can't be. Anyways, we got away. And thanks for telling me. I like going to take that as a compliment. Now you look good. You look like you look. Just don't wash that. I know where you got it. Just don't wash because it's called fast. Fast fashion. I am rich. Yeah, I look like a winemaker. Maybe you'll get. Cheese. Make you make cheese. Maybe I on a company and I'm like. I'm home. At my infinity pool drinking glass of wine from my best friend's vineyard. Yeah. how are you? Best day of my life and never lived. Better day. You know, last week, we our last. Episode, we had a pretty incredible episode, right, where we had that documentary filmmaker Andy Tremlett. Yes, we did. And was incredible. It was great. And the same shit's going on that was going on back then. We were talking with him and so our hearts are with, you know, the people of Palestine definitely are. We've had this cease fire now for a handful of episodes, and it ain't coming down until the fire has been ceased. That's right. Absolutely. And this week we were so excited to have our first in-studio guest and they unfortunately came down with David COVID. David Jagoda. You know, I am a registered nurse and you know, for all you fuckers that thought it wasn't real. It isn't, It's not. Yeah, it's all fake anyways. These feeling, they are feeling a lot better and, but we have postponed their episode to the following episode, which will be hopefully our Christmas episode. Yeah, we're a week out from Christmas. We can have two weeks out from right now and so that'd be exciting. Would be exciting. We were so excited. We have a handful of people. They're going to be on this podcast, so that'll be the test. Definitely. And we just bought a new camera. And we got a new mike. We got a new mike. We were going to put off the camera and then we just did it and we did it. And so we carry Christmas. We have. Gone that. We are legit, very much ready now. We have no excuses not to have interviews as much as possible now. Yeah, we have people that have been on the back burner and so we've have quite a big list of people that we are going to get in here and we're very excited for. The next episode is gonna be very fun. Yeah. And if you remember, or if you're following this podcast, Thank you. We are going every other week now so that we can prepare more and be more pre-production. Yeah, and you know what? If in future times we release three podcasts in a month because that's just the way. We do it and that's what is going to be this is going to be is going to be my no, I could be on this podcast. That's right. Now we do it. Yeah. With the help of some wonderful graphic designer named Trent Helberg. And I didn't know how to brand us. But our studio out here in the garage is growing and we are adding to it. So we'll be so excited to have our first in-studio guest very soon. And before we jump into today's conversation that we had, you know, we just me, me in the brewski scene, I mean, throw me in the me and the sister over here, Dan the me and the brother over here, Skipper. I'm just kind of shooting the shit. We got a good conversation. Today about. Spirituality, but before we get into spirituality. Spirituality. When we first started this podcast, episode eight, nine or ten, one of the first ten episodes, it was nine. We started the episode by taking a. Big old whiff of. Aromatic ammonia inhalants. So. That calls them smelling salts. Right? Yeah, I call them that. No one else does. It's just my thing. I don't like to sound smelling salts. It sounds a little druggie. I like aromatic ammonia inhalants seems the more medical. Totally. These are used as a critical care cardiac registered nurse. This is part of my. I'll save your fucking life bag that I keep in my car. And it's been in the garage because I have make use of my car, but inside of them are ten crushable ampoules of ammonia. You break them in your hand and then you take the biggest whiff right after they break in it. Box you up. Yeah, it does. It hurts. Burns. It only lasts about 20 seconds at the most. Yeah. And then we'll jump right into our conversation after that. How about that's what we do is we go straight into conversation. We'll just go right and we'll go. Right into it. And we did one last time and I told 94 and do it again with you two. We're going to do that. I need you to keep your mike on you. I want you to break it. When we do it, I want you to break it above the mic. Okay. And your mic sides here. The camera stays on you. I guess so. I guess that's what we're going to do here. Smelling salts here. I need to. Lie to. It because we have to up the ante. No, dude, we're not doing too. They suck. You have the the thing is, you break them. The whole point of these is you break them when someone is either dead or not. And the way you try to get them out of a coma are to see if they're alive. As you can break these and put them out of their nose. And then while they're like, barely breathing, their brain hits them on his their brain. They're like. Yeah. So you don't need to. Know once for sure. Okay. You know, you want to ante up, but this is. Fine. If anyone's ever done it. Ammonia, not smelling salts, you know that that first inhale is the one that's the big banger because it's all the ammonia. And if you just do a little, you're just going to get that first burn. But we're not going to do that crush. Once use and discard, we. Are going to take full fat. Fat and so that we're so ready. To break it into your. Nose. Well, you just crack it. You go, Okay, ready? Three, two, one. Stop. Right by the hatch. wow. I am ready. I just got out. Great. One more. One more. There's last one. Here we go. I feel that my first one bird. But the second one third. I'm great. Did so good. God. One. man. So are great. fuck me. Welcome back to the episode of the Mortal Kombat podcast. I am your host, Nathan. And with. My host, I'm Zach. wow. There's ammonia in our sinuses. Clears you out. Well, this could be a good pop. We're going to rebound real clear. We're going to sound good. Cleared out. We're going to sound so good. Yeah. God damn, that sucked, Ash. All right, That worked. That worked. That was good. I got to do anything. My face. No, You're just. Like you've been crying. Haven't been. We'll just chop this up and we'll put this at the end of the episode. You're like, Great conversation. Recover. that was work. Every new guest, we should be like, Smell this now, Reagan, Move us. Clean actors out of your. Shot a little bit. Breathe this in all all that you can, and then we'll get started. How funny would that be? It'd be terrible. We start our cast with every guest with fewer insults. If you're just listening, you've heard. You've heard the greatest sounds you've ever heard in your entire life. Yeah, they know what they're listening to. All right. Let's have a convo. You just go straight into. Don't even just today's episode. We are actually talking about spirituality. This is a term that. I've. You hear thrown around in so many different contexts. And is that when Zach and I started to really push starting to interview other people over the last month when that's been a lot of our focus over last couple of months and that's been a lot of our work is you know, so much of our podcast has been just having conversations about our own personal religious drama and our upbringing for like over a year now. So we've talked about a lot of things and so it always feels like we're going going back to past conversations that you could find on this show if you wanted to go back and find stuff. This one is new, though. This one's new. The we're talking about spirituality and specifically. For us kind of putting. Our experience with our own personal relationship to spirituality after leaving the church right after being born in it and having a very, very strict black and white view of spirituality and one way or the highway spirituality. And then when you. Walk away from that, right, there's inevitably this sort of emptiness or a void and a sort of rebirth legitimately, of spiritual, really, because you have to kind of like redefine it and relearn what that is. Yeah. And so we're talking about what it's like for us as spiritual people because we're both very spiritual and have grown in our spirituality after leaving the church. I know for the both of us in different ways. So how does that look, you know, for the both of us, and how does that how has it grown and has it been difficult? And it has been and it's been wonderful. I've had a really easy time with all of it. Yeah, of course you have now. Easy, super easy. Time. I feel. Like leaving the church. And. Spirituality feels a little bit like those ammonia. Salts. It's like, nice. You know what I mean? No, I don't. But I like. I like you trying to have an analogy for that. That's great. So anything you want to say before. I give a little spiel? No. How about you give you a spiel? What is. Spirituality? Spirituality is an expansive and deeply personal concept, often reflecting our quest for meaning and a profound connection with something greater than ourselves. It embodies our journey towards understanding our inner selves and exploring the deeper mysteries of life. This pursuit often leads us to experiences of transcendence, moments that elevate us beyond the ordinary, instilling a sense. Of our. And who wonder. At its core, spirituality is about finding peace and harmony within, guiding us through life's myriad challenges with a compass, our personal values and ethics. It's not confined to the boundaries of organized religion. Instead, it offers a more inclusive path, open to a diverse array of beliefs and interpretations, whether it's through meditation, prayer, or meaningful rituals. Spiritual practices serve as tools for growth in self reflection. Importantly, spirituality fosters a sense of interconnectedness, not just with other people, but with all living things nurturing, empathy, compassion, and a sense of community. In essence, being spiritual is about nurturing this inner connection and harmony, seeking a person, a purposeful existence that transcends the physical and material. Aspects of our lives. That might be the most detailed definition of spirituality I've ever heard. Yeah, I think that what it means to be spiritual is, you know, like when I left the church, it was. The it was like I. Was like, I'm no longer a Christian, but I believed in God. I must have believed in God. And if someone, you know, like there's so many different times in my life after leaving the church where it was like, Do I believe in God? And it was like, wasn't even a choice. It was like I was still praying to God. For. Like four years. Yeah, or at. Least a couple of years. And because it was nearly impossible to like, reformat. It. For me. And so spirituality leaving the church for me. Was prayer was worship was. Going, was reading the Bible, studying. And I guess like the spirituality of Christianity was always like prayer and, you know, worshiping like pretty strict. These are the ways to get like to have prayer. Yeah. Within Christianity, just. Anything that's like not of this world, right? Was like that was it. That was I was like a handful, like a couple of different things. And so I didn't know any other ways to be spiritual after I left the church and I was, you know, pretty terrified of like, not to know, like my whole format of life was so ritualistic in terms of why it was spiritual. And so everything praying before food, praying this. Asking God this. So I'm not a Christian, but I don't know God. What do you think? You know, what do. You feel like the spirituality in evangelical Christianity is more How do you how could you say like physical, like more like you do things that are spiritual versus the actual spirituality? You can if you. Think just like for my experience when I like left the church and I was kind of like, I'm done with this way of living and now I'm going to do this way. And it was like, Well, what's the other way? And it was like, I don't know. So I'm going to now. Everything became it was very clear what was ritualistic when I thought everything was organically spiritual and it was like, No, I'm just following. The rules of the. Spiritual, of the guidance, I guess. What about for you? Like, do you remember when you walked when you actually left the faith? Because I mean, it's a long process, right? This idea of like no longer being. I think everyone has a different way of leaving the faith years was like, Hey, guys, I'm done. That way for people. But it was and. That's the way you approached it. You like you took mom and Dad out to dinner and told them that you're 15 years old and you'd, like made it solidified. I am not going to be a Christian anymore, whereas our sister, like, just kind of did her own thing, got married, left the state, and then after years and years and years and then being gone, she no longer believe you know me. It's like I was still around and I never really, ever just talk about it. And then when I did move away, I started to solidify more that it was like, Yeah, I definitely am not a Christian anymore. And then. When that. Happened. Did you have like what happened after that in terms of spirituality? Was it just the prayer stuff? Was it the inner dialog? Spirituality? Man Has it has evolved for me. But the second the church started to feel less real, I stopped thinking about it. It really wasn't until I started to be open to other spirituality and besides the Christian religion, I was where I started to think of my spirituality again. But like I can think of from like most of my twenties, I just wasn't thinking about spirituality that much. I think I was really too scared to think of anything other than a God. And then once I kind of felt okay thinking that way without it making me panic, I started to think there's possibilities everywhere. So even even when you were like, confident, like, I'm no, I'm not a Christian anymore, you, you would have a lot of anxiety then. That was like, like late twenties, like 26, 27 is when I started to, like, really be like, no, I can openly tell people I'm not Christian and not feel bad. I mean, I'm always I've never really not believed in a God because it's how you define that that makes that weird to God. The Bible not real to me, not even the slightest real, but a God in terms of like, whatever that could be. All of us could be part of the same entity called a God that is all being all wanting, controlling in some other realm. Like who? Who knows? And that could be called God. So the idea of like people being like, lead the church and then just God's not real anymore. And that's never been real for me. I've always thought of there's is another spiritual being or power that's besides myself or it is me in another realm or whatever it would be that I can kind of think of. I don't pray to it anymore that I don't do those types of things. No rituals outside of things, but I really feel like spirituality for me grew so much after leaving the church, which I thought it would be the complete opposite. I we were raised to believe that there was only one way of reaching this level of spirituality, and it was through God and Jesus and the way Christians are taught to have spirituality. And then once you get rid of that, it's there is no more spirituality. But for me, it was like there's so much spirituality out there that you can dive into and learn about and indulge. And the second you do leave the faith, because now you have the freedom to think for yourself. You have the freedom to have your own opinions, you have your freedom to try things and to try new spiritualities and what have you modalities. But in the church, I feel like it is so just this way. There is no other spirituality any other way. Yeah, black and white. Very black and white. And it felt good to be in the black and white and all I knew. And then the second there was more color everywhere, I was like, been missing out on a lot of things. I felt like. Yeah, I feel that. Well, we have these conversations, sort of questions that we have been using when we have these conversations to sort of stimulate conversation and help us, you know, open up the topic a little bit more. Stimulating the. Spiritual prostate, we like to say. Stimulating spiritual prostate. Yak No, actually, that's actually totally fine. That sounds. Actually legit. I like that. Thank you. Is very spiritual. Like a colonic. Doing a colonic is just Google. Okay, Google Now YouTube, YouTube. This first question, I think we're just kind of opened it up. This says, How have you redefined spirituality for yourself after leaving the church? What elements have remained and what has changed? I'm not sure anything's remained. Yeah, I know. It's like I and prayer is such a powerful thing, but prayer to me is so triggering, right? When someone's like, Let me pray for you. I'm like, Please don't. And prayer was such a huge part of the spirituality. It was like, meditate. Like, prayer is kind of a form of meditation. Right? But also so different. I tried to pray the other day, very day. It's like very it's it's actually not meditation, right? It's kind. Of different. In our. Day. I tried to pray every day. I was trying to be like, open. And I was like, just pray. Like I was having a really anxious man. I just pray whenever I try it, try it out. And you didn't like it, man. And it's I don't even think it's our upbringing. I think it's just not real to me anymore. Yeah, I think that like because prayer was so. For. Us, right? And it was like, there's really only one thing you're praying to God. Yeah. Or Jesus. It's like there's no really no other access. Yeah. And so that's weird. Yeah. Like when you try to pray and you're just, if you just revert right back to the old ways, it's super like, no, I don't like that. Yeah, but, like, there's this whole thing that I was born, my life's been open up to, you know, over the years called gratitude. Prayers have prayers in the word. But people are like, I do gratitude, prayers every day. And you're like, okay, hippie. And then you. Actually you do do it. Yeah. And gratitude prayers are just, you know, it's like just like, you know, like in the Christians, right? It's like, I thank you, God for this food for you eat every meal and like when you're consciously aware and you're like, as you're eating, you're like thanking the food because it's like the food is energy that's becoming you. And it's basically, you know, giving itself to you. And you're like, lucky to have it right? And it's like you should be thankful for the food that you consume. And there's so many people on this planet that don't have it. So when you're thankful for the things that you have and when you're thankful for even the things you don't have, just the connections, you can make powerful prayers. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think reverting back to like. It. Seems like anything that's like in the. Old past, the. Past Christian life, it's the same for me. It's I guess it makes me feel that like past familiarity. I'm like, Nah, I don't want this. Yeah, I don't want it. Yeah. But I am very ritualistic and we've talked about that a lot on this podcast. It's like my I connect very much with like a rigorous discipline which you know, fits perfect with this like mindset that's like, get up, do the same thing every day, work hard discipline. And so, like, I do the cold shower, I do the working out as much as I can. I deep breathe in the mornings and like I tend to get into these I find these spiritual modalities that always have worked for me and they're very powerful and. All. This research and people have told me to try these things and they'll work and then I'll like become extremely ritualistic about it and I'll get kind of stuck in sort of like, well, I have to do it every day now because if I miss it, if. I don't. If I don't do it, then I won't. Feels good. Yeah. And that's like the childhood trauma. That's like the religious trauma. So for me, I, I've had so much fun finding, like right after leaving the church, it was like right into other spiritual religions and different ways, you know, I was like studying all these different religions. Like my mind was exploding and, and everything changed. And then like, yeah, it was just a lot has changed. And whenever there's any sort of PTSD or sort of response to the past, it's like childhood trauma, religious trauma. Which a lot of. It seems like these sort of ritualistic or spiritual modalities can bring up a lot of past trauma. So it's been difficult to be like. Okay, yeah, let's just let's just debrief. Yeah. You know, it's like I did this as a kid and I don't want, you know, it's like you really have to kind of like, be okay. Stepping into what might remind you of. Yeah, the past, You know, it's weird. Yeah, it's. Interesting in there. And there's also, like, when we were in the faith, a simple thing like meditation wasn't really. It was kind of frowned. It was like for an offensive. Weird. It was weird back then pretty heavily. I remember being in my first round of therapy at 17 with a Christian therapist, and he was trying. He's teaching, teaching me how to meditate and doing it. The Christian therapist was teaching you how to meditate. And doing doing it felt felt like I was breaking rules. And then I remember it being a little weird with mom and dad, too. But then it was kind of like, it's just meditation, but it wasn't praying, right? So it's kind of like this. It was like a weird, like entry into, like Eastern medicine. It's like I'm sitting with my daughter. Sitting with your thoughts is Eastern medicine. Yeah. Whenever you think of a thought, don't. Think of it. scary. But my thoughts are rampant. I want to give them to God. Don't know you are God. You don't say that. There's no words you could ever say. Question number two. Let's go. For it. Can you share a moment of experience? Let's signify frequently shaped your spiritual journey outside the traditional evangelical beliefs. Specific moment experience choice for sure. I think once once we were once I was out of the church in terms of I just stopped doing the church stuff and I started having spiritual experiences, anything that would make me feel the same way. I felt that like an afterglow or worship or something. Maybe in the moment I didn't realize how spiritual it felt, but then looking back to it was so spiritual, like when Blouse was at its highest and we won the White Wonderland competition. Was when we did. Music together with a group that had a pretty hefty amount of success towards the end of it. And then it crashed and burned. But we won this white wonderland. EDC was EDC Insomniac put it on and it was a big biggest EDM competition you could ever win. And it was just kind of like, Whoa, we won, but they're playing the show in front of 15,000 people. And I remember looking out and feeling so spiritual. Like, Did you feel that way at most shows or. No. Really? No. I mean, but there's something different about being on a stage in front of that many people, and it's very powerful. And we played a couple of pretty big shows, but that's the that was like the biggest have ever played. And I think for good reason. 15,000 people, a lot of people, you know, in an Anaheim theater and just looking out, I remember being overwhelmed, of course, with like the feeling of just like, that's a lot of people watching us play music. But then also just like this weird, not even weird, just this heavy spirituality kind of feeling that I used to get doing during like really good worship sessions and stuff where you just kind of like, what are you feeling? It's like, everyone's singing with me. There's an energy here that wasn't church and it's something else. It's spiritual, and that was just one of them. Additionally, like pretty much any any experience I've had on psychedelics has been monumental to me. Believing in a spiritual realm or another. Definitely like other dimensions and stuff, it really like solidified that as being a very big possibility. How about you? You've ever had any experience experiences outside the church that. Have you had no. Spiritual journey? No. Never. No, no, no. None did. Good for you, man. Honestly, I've had like, I love what you said earlier when you were like, things got more spiritual after I left the church. Yeah, because I walked away, like you said, aggressively. You know, like, I'm done with this, and I'm now moving into a different state of mind. And that state of mind was like saying yes to most things that I wasn't allowed to say yes to. Yeah. And so, like, cannabis was the most psychedelic and spiritual plant on the earth. And I was just so flabbergasted that it was such a hated or even looked at plant in the church, especially in our family. And so, yeah, I was one of those people were like one of those people. But it seems like where I was trying to, I was trying to find spirituality or whatever that meant, like what you just said through psychedelics, but like right out of the church, right? It was kind of like weed came into my life and it was helping me sleep and I suffered such bad insomnia. So I was like finding God and sleep. And it was like the first time where I was like, damn, like this plant that they hate is bringing me to God. Like, there's clearly gods in this plant. Like, this is a gift from God. And so plant medicine, like, right out of the church, became like teas, tinctures, like anything that they could find in the community market. You know, And we come from a very like Northern California hippie land. So there's just like so much weird shit out there. It was just like, finally we can try it all. And one of my close childhood friends was also in the church and he was like my like an access to spirituality outside of the church. And they were very smart and read a bunch of books and, you know, like opened kind of opened the door for me to like it. They kind of led the way into a spiritual life outside of the church. So I kind of left the church finding so much spirituality, studying other religions, meditating, drinking massive amounts of kava, you know, with candles everywhere, like at the age of like 17, like right out of mom and dad's house, just like, okay, we're going to sit for 2 hours in the dark, like trying to find like, really going in like, you know what? Like the church lied to us. Let's go really find God, okay? And then psychedelics came in, and I remember the first time I'd ever done acid, and it was kind of like the first time I'd gone high off weed. I was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, for sure. for sure. The spirit. Is real. You know? Yeah, I was so young and so scared and I was right out of the church. So I had these experiences that were like perfectly in line with what I was searching for. And it was this kind of like, moments of like, like it's, it's me. I am God. Like, I'm the reason why everything is like, that's why it's about how I can be. And about. Why. Right? The search is always like, why am I here? Why is life? And it's like, you are the reason why. It's kind of confusing. But like, I learned that right out of the church because everything in the church is like, God, please. Well, in just that statement alone, I am God saying that to an evangelical. You're saying like the devil's words and you can't think that that's not that's a bad track to go down. Mr. Right. And it's like you're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm not saying I created all of this. I'm not saying I'm the super being that owns all of this reality you live in. It's just like I think we're all the same. Yeah. And I think we're all part of the same. We are. We are all God. Exactly. It's just like, I don't know. I remember thinking the same thing when you used to say that somewhere when you first started saying that with our old graphic designer and it would trigger me, it would be like, you're not God, dude, You are definitely not God. You don't say that. And then now I'm like, I know. Well, so like for sure, right out of the church and I'm like, not a mom and dad's house. I ran out of high school and it was like, So are so young and was so pretending to not be scared. Like I was suppressing so much trauma and trying to just jump right into the world. Like here we go. And I had amazing friends and like a really good close friend that was an amazing spiritual guide who kind of like made me feel really safe outside of this sort of black and white mentality. But I was still pretty strictly black and white until years and years down the road. And so and one of the ways that help break down all that shit for me was like, you just said. It psychedelics, motherfucker. Totally. But time and place and, and I had some just amazing experiences at such a young age. When I say young, like 1920. That. That were so scary for me, like experiencing, doing a psychedelic and finally seeing what you're kind of pretending to see as a Christian. Finally hearing what you pretend to hear as a Christian, finally smelling and tasting the things that you pretend as a Christian, and then like seeing and feeling your body in ways that are like, so animalistic and like you feel so earthly, so part of the. Earth, like. All of the things that you experience on a really safe and successful psychedelic trip are kind of like enough for an ex Christian to be like. Yeah, even lie in. And that's how it was for me as a kid. But I was like, so scared of that truth, whatever that was like. And these whatever plan medicines hold or it's just the experience is so powerful, it's undeniable that like I wasn't ready to understand it. And so after like about 18, 19, 20, when I was at USF for nursing school, I had like a two out two year period where it was like I went completely dark on spirituality, like just when I moved there and just go was like, We're done. And that's when we started before we even started Blouse more professionally. And there was like a couple of years where I wasn't doing any right a year and a half or so, and I just like, shut all of it out. I was like, No more psychedelic, like no more drug, like no more weed. I took a year off weed like, and, and that kind of period of helped reset me for when I did return back to my, like this idea of like, yeah, I'm a spiritual person. Let's go deeper into learning more about who I am, my connection to it all. I was like, That's when I really started to become more spiritual. That was a long winded way to say that plant medicine from the jump being cannabis was like kind of like the first beginning of me feeling real. Something spiritual from this earth. Yeah. That I was. Told is evil. And I was like, But that feels so much more spiritual and it's just a plant. and it's like. I think what's really interesting, man, is these plant medicines that I've tried way later in my life now and have indulge and indulge in every single night could be such an aid to the spirituality and the religion. Like if we if it was part of an afterglow, too, to take some mushrooms and to really try to feel God, man, would I have felt God a hell of a lot more, you know, And not that I'm saying we they should be doing that. I'm just like the hate from the evangelicals on weed on any psychedelic, any medical, any anything is just like if it's not of God, it's not good. And it's like, God gave us mushrooms. Now God put weed on this planet. If, if you believe in like that. And I think it's a pretty amazing thing, I think he actually might want you to use it. You know what I mean? I don't know. We can move on, though. Let's read another question. What kind of support did you find most helpful when transitioning away from the evangelical church Support? Well, the support's been kind of like it's going on right now. This is the support. Yeah, I think more of more. It's been endless. When you were 18, 19, 20, in those times, your life where you didn't have you, I mean, for most of your life, especially after leaving the church, you didn't have your parents to really talk to you anymore, and you only had the friends closest to you and you were very segregated. What was a good support system for you in that moment, especially in terms of experimenting with psilocybin, experimental LSD around other people who were also spiritual? Like what in that realm were you? Like, That was kind of a pretty good crutch for me to experiment. I think I kind of said it a little bit ago, like there was a my childhood, my like teenager childhood best friend ever growing up was I call him like he was I want to have him on this podcast. I don't have them. They're mine, you know, like I would love to talk to them about these things because they were the ones who stepped out and they were kind of also in the church, framed as being the, you know, person who's like, they're not a Christian or like, they're into weed. They don't talk to them like they're. Into all the other kids. That was a big thing. And all the other kids were like, Don't don't talk to them. They're going to put bad thoughts into your head about things. And I was like, That was my best friend. And I was being sort of pushed out, too. And like, but he was exceptionally more smarter than me and Red and just had like brainiac minds came from engineers and and so, like, I would sneak out of before I was kicked out, I would sneak out of the house, I'd open up the window and sneak out, and I'd run down the street to my best friend's house and we'd grab his lawn chairs and we go down to the go to the park park by our house, and. We. Smoked some weed and it'd be stars everywhere. And you'd just be looking at the stars. It'd be so cold. You know, you're like 17, 16, and we'd be out there and I'd be in the chair and I'd be like. we go to the store, you know, like, just, like. Really feeling, like, experiencing spirit. Yeah. You know, like, so young and, like. And he'd stand up and just he just start going off and he would start talking about, like if he'd say something like, you know, man, this what the church been saying, right you are. That's not fucking true. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. And this is what I've been reading. Dum dum, dum, dum, dum, dum dum. And I'd. Be like, my God, this so powerful, so makes so much sense. And so I felt so lucky that like, as I was getting really pushed out and had, like, I'd say, a good year of my life where I was really disconnected from the family. That was like kind of before I was moving to Yusef where I was like had gotten kicked out, was here in town still for like two years, and then moved to San Francisco. And those two years, my support system, we're like two friends and our three friends and one of those being like my access to any sort of form of spirituality outside of Christian belief in church. And he was in the youth group with me and like we did everything together. And so I never felt fully alone. It was kind of like, I'm scared of this thought. And then there would always be sessions together. We talk about these scary. Thoughts. And they weren't as scared as me. They didn't have anxiety. They and, you know, like, that's I'd love to have them on to talk about it. Yeah. And so during those years, those really formative young years. I this. The biggest support for my spirituality in terms of how scared I. Was was really. Like besides that friend and the person and the smaller group I had was cannabis. The cannabis made me I would get so scared in my thoughts. Like and. I would pray, especially when I was like living, you know, when I was wasn't mom and dad anymore and like on my own and like you said, couldn't call them, couldn't talk to them. So I was just like in my own thoughts, like, I'm just going to be stuck like this. And I pray that, God, please take these, that I'm so scary. Like, I'm sorry and I apologize. Going to be freaking out. Yeah. You know, then I learned very quickly that, like, you can smoke weed and you don't have to be scared of God. You actually stop worrying about God. That was my experience. Interesting. So I like my spirituality was almost protected by the plant in a way, like just like that headspace at that age. And so I crushed on cannabis. So hard because. Help me with my sleep, helped me with my thoughts, helped me with like I'm spiritual. We were so spiritual out of the church and studying things and trying different modalities and like really searching, you know, And cannabis was like our main cushioning. It was like our real mother ganja. Before I knew it was mother ganja, it was like a real mother holding us and being like, Yeah, it's scary out here with your own. Thoughts, but it's okay. You keep thinking, you keep thinking, you keep thinking, you keep thinking. And so. You know, my experience with cannabis is so different than yours. And I didn't allow myself to smoke consistently until nearly a year and a half ago. But for most of my twenties, every time I'd try it I mean, you know this, I'd have really crippling, crippling anxiety. But now that I'm a pretty avid cannabis user, yeah, my my thought process is when I'm high are so spiritual. That's one way I can put it in a it almost like there's a veil that gets unleashed and I can have like a spiritual wracking lionization of like certain thoughts. And I think it scared me so much as a kid to have that kind of freedom. Also, when some of the other things that some of the important people in our lives planted into my brain on, on just how dangerous weed was. But there is something really, really magical about some of these plants. And I personally consider weed a slight psychedelic for sure. I've had some pretty insane trips that have been pretty psychedelic and I think it kind of does fall in the category of psychedelics in a way. Yeah. I mean, we like talking about psychedelics and cannabis on this podcast, right? It's like my relationship. This is I'm talking about it when it first came into my life like a young age, you know, and, you know, having a son now who's 12 going on 13, like, you know, the thought of him starting to smoke weed in like two years, I'm like, yeah, no. Yeah. my God, I'm old. Because when I was 15, it was like sneaking out, smoked it, scared shitless. I'm not going to tell the whole story and be like. By. So when you're young, it's like you're, you're not like your brain is. And this is all shown as a research, right? You're not as, like, primed, you're not as, like, available. Your brain is still growing to be able to experience these plants at their full potential. And I'm not the smart one up here. And it's kind of like, say, what's good or bad or whatever, but like, I wasn't even I couldn't even get high. I fully high until like ten times of trying. Yeah. Sneaking out without mom and Dad knowing. And it was top secret missions. Yeah. You know, like going to park somewhere and trying to find it and, like, so scared. So scared. And the moment I got high for the first time at a park, it was like a life changing moment for me. Like you said, it was the gateway to the scariest thing. It was going to pull you away from God. And it brought me to like it did. It did that. It pulled me away. Like it helped pull me out of the church safely. Yeah. Like every time I'd want to think about the church, it's a lot more fun and easier. Hi. Yeah. And then, like, Yeah. And so. But my relationship to cannabis now is it's extremely medicinal. And I go through periods of taking breaks and I've done and there's other plant medicines out there that require you to not use any substances, change your whole diets. And I think we'll get on to that one. If we. Want to. We can. I mean, I feel like there's so many things that we could talk about how these experiences that we've had. And, you know, it's funny is like. I know your life and you know, mine, but whenever we put these cameras on these mikes go on, these lights go on in my head I always think like, yeah, I know you so well. So we're just going to have this conversation together, like for the content. And then I'm always like, surprised. What I learn in my what I learn is that, like I've known about your experience with cannabis was different than mine. Now you get it, whatever that means, really, you totally understand. You still have a very different experience than me. I do. But overall. My when I left the church, I literally nosedived into spirituality like rituals and searching and trying to find anything. And it was trying new things, the scary shit, trying scary things. And that just was never your. No, you were like, literally not that at all. Yeah. And whenever you tried those things with me. We were so different, man. With my crippling anxiety. We have our. Personal connection to those experiences. Yeah, that really affected us. Yeah, that's a great podcast. We've had it before. We can have it again. But like I'm just saying more of like, yeah, your experience of spirituality has been more recent, right? When you say, With, with just like your world plant medicine for. Sure. Right. Sure. I I've had so many experiences in my younger twenties and late teens with substances that I started to create such a fear of all substances besides alcohol, alcohol I could indulge in for ever and not have problems with. Anything like alcohol, Adderall, or any of the. Yeah, those were fine. Those are fine. For me, the most. Dangerous and illegal kinds I. Know. And like I had prescriptions that were like horrible for my body and I was doing terrible things with them, but I could get away with the extreme anxiety. One get triggered down, I'd smoke and a couple of hits from a joint and for some reason my brain would collapse in on itself. And I would think I'm losing my mind and they wouldn't be. But it was. It was tough. But then the second, honestly, I wanted to stop drinking so much because it's just hard on the body, man. It's so hard. And it's just like my I didn't like who I was drunk and I was I think I started to come to this realization that I realized I was just running from reality by indulging in alcohol so much. And it was just part of the culture. But the second I was like 2021, I was like, I'm just going to let myself being anxious, but I'm going to smoke weed more, indulge in cannabis more. And I got over this hump of that. I'm not going to lose my mind. And like once I was like, You're not close to my man. Stop freaking out. Let yourself be high. And it's yeah, it's just a different experience for me now. And that that kind of let me down the path. Reading some books about psilocybin and now it's once. Again that this plant cannabis once you and you were able to like break free of that childhood trauma if I'm hearing right like is then you experienced that it's like cannabis is a spiritual plant. It's not even that all plants are spirits. Like all plants are like given their gifts. Yeah, right. And in that the the saying is canvas is the gateway drug. You do cannabis, you're sort of in meth. And it's like, no, not true at all. And it it's it really depends on how you define drugs. I think it's a gateway for addicts. You know, like you and I both suffer from addiction. I like from the jump. So if there's one drug I am addicted to one. It's not we call it a plant. Yeah. But like. I think what I was trying to get at is that, like, you're at the level now where you're like, you've you've had a spiritual awakening from a plant called cannabis. But I mean by awakening, right? Is the fact that it's just like once you can break out of the church, not be so afraid, which requires for you. But I think you hit the nail on the head, though, because I had such a fear of cannabis. But in reality, when I started to, what made me start to smoke more and joy is when I had fears of other things, like I was having a panic attack about losing money or something, something that was really consuming me. And then I would smoke. I'd be like, I can totally think about that now and I can deal with those thoughts. It's like really weird. I never had cannabis do that for me. Yeah, I'm kind of the same way you said where it was like I couldn't think about my spirituality. I couldn't think about it and the about like I could think all about it. Right. And it very similar where it's like it just kind of like, lets you think about it. Yeah. And then you kind of get over some stuff and you're like, I think I healed last night when I got high. And when you experience that and if you're somebody that really benefits like digestive, really anxiety appetite, you can work out if you're, if you're functional and you suffer from that good old gene that's called addiction. Yeah. Then something that can be an axis or a comfort or a sort of coddling by like a mother ganja type approach can become a crutch, just like anything else. Yeah, totally. And I crushed on so much shit out of the. Church because I was. Crushing on prayer. I was crushing on morning devotions, I was crushing on God. And every thought I was crushing on, like everything in the church was crutches. It was like I, I have to do it this way or else I'm guilty. Yeah. And so I latch on to things like, you know, and it's. It. Seems like weed. As a kid became that rich, it became a ritual. It became like my access, and it was hard to do anything else, you know? Then I had to, like, learn how to like, go of cannabis, which is a whole nother thing. Now. It's like anything can become an addiction in our and anything can become a hindrance. And actually I think like. BLOCK you from more spirituality and I've experienced that 20 fold with this same plant. So like this question, it was being. Asked. What was the support leaving the church? I'd say it was like literally my closest friend at the time. And cannabis. Yeah. Was like this plant and I person like just like is like a body double. Like just being was just to be able to experience life outside of the church with somebody else so much of what mean them did but in the meantime we just traveled together just could do everything together because it was we were opposites and we were safe leaving the church safe. You know, it's what it is, man. It's having it's having something else that's safe that isn't the church. And we'd help me feel really safe in my own thoughts. Yeah. Yeah, I was really. I was grateful to have my siblings, honestly, because it's just it a terrifying thing to leave your faith and to just even venture into different thought processes. Or is science real like having those thoughts? Is evolution real? I was told it was it again the crime branch? It's down. But having you and Natalie kind of able to talk to or to challenge my thoughts, especially my young and mid-twenties and whatever, and see different avenues of spirituality made me feel safer in it for sure. I feel like the friend you were talking about, I never had that. I never had a friend that was like my my safety net in terms of spirituality. But I did have, you and Natalie as like my safety and spirituality for sure, especially Natalie. Like when I moved to New Orleans and lived with them, she challenged some of my thoughts and I was like, You're challenging me. And it felt good and it felt like it's safe to be challenged here because it's not my home. Yeah, yeah. And then you look at me and you'd be like, I don't know why Nathan would ever do that, but maybe I'll consider it someday. Yeah, I guess I remember. Being, like 19 and being like, Zach, you have to try these things. They're called shrooms. Yeah, I would never. You were like, No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Never. And I was like, You got to try them someday. And you're like, Dude, never, never. And then it's like. Look at me now. Look at me now. It's true. It's true. It's very sweet of you. I know you've told that to me a lot expressed on this podcast is that really this podcast really opened up the door for us to be really vulnerable to each other and share each other's. Like what it was like growing up and how. Yeah, I didn't have an older brother like, you know, like, yeah, And then once got married and she's not married anymore, man. Yeah. She was out of the house, right out of the house and boom, right into that classic Christian marriage. Yeah. And then they were gone. And. And so I was always. Aware of how scary it was. So scary leaving the church. But I was at that time, I suppressed everything and I was the tough one and it's all good. Come on, man. Jason Booze. Yeah. So most women. Relax. I was like, my energy. You were like, Ha, Thanks. Ah, yeah. You know, And then in these forward my mid twenties and it was like, Dude, I'm so fucking scared. Yeah, I am so scared to be alive. How do I thrive? How do I not be scared to live anymore? Yeah. You drank. We drank a lot. That's what we did. Yeah. No anymore. That's what I mean. That's at least when I think back to that time period. Everything was drinking, doing. Talking about cannabis as a spiritual, like, safety net. Yeah. Out of the church, drinking numbed everything up. Yeah. And drinking, partying and raging. That was a huge part of life for so many years. Yeah. And I think a lot of people rage and party further all their own reasons, but it works like alcohol works wonders if you know want to feel shit. Yeah. You just wanna feel good. Yeah. You have to. Feel twice as bad if not three times as bad afterwards. That's the only. Problem. Yeah. And then you blame it on the booze. Then there's all this hidden shit. Yeah, No, it's. Cannabis is not the same cannabis as a goddamn blessing. And I wish alcohol as in, like, being able to enjoy alcohol. I wish it was more of a blessing, you know, like, I see people being able to enjoy a glass of really, you know, healthy booze. Yeah, because, yeah, I don't know if that statement can ever be true. I just. I love watching people enjoy a nice glass of healthy booze. Yeah, healthy booze. Organic, grown. Organic, healthy booze. Nothing like organic poison. What I mean by that is, like, they seem like organic people making healthy choices with their substances that they use. I'm like, Have you had 7000 milligrams of THC today? Because I have. No, I do not want the scotch. Do you keep the bottle to yourself? That's like, you know, some people can choose. There's dude there's just a lot of there's a lot of drugs out there and alcohol being one of them that is just yeah, it's a numbing and numbing effect and it releases a lot of dopamine and it really works. Yeah, it does what it's supposed to do, which is is make you feel better. And weed can sometimes make you feel better, can also make you feel a lot worse sometimes. But the thing. About weed is that most of the time we always call it like climbing the mountain. Yeah, you have to face reality every time. You to lose reality every. Time, but you have to face you're facing reality by losing it, but you're not losing anything. You're actually just it's just changing. Just a little bit. But like we. Getting drunk isn't climbing the mountain that's falling down the mountain so. Much easier. It's like. It's like jumping into a hot tub. Yeah, It's like, ooh, I'm getting in the way. We the way. We would drink was like, hop on a sleigh and let's go down the fastest slope. Yeah. So we kind of like, Here we go. Here we go. my gosh. We get kind of high. You look down and. Boom, you're at the top and you're like, What do you want? You now? Yeah. You want to talk about something crazy? sorry. Fire won't make it, Yeah. Why do we do tense? What is fire for? What is fire? Well, that's questions. Well, I look at the stars. Yeah. look at da da da. We are. We're hot. alcohol, weed, alcohol. Yeah. I just also found an alcohol in general. Everyone, once you're drunk, you're angry. No, no, no, man. I mean, some. There's a lot of happy drunks out there. I know them. I've worked, dude, I've worked in a lot of bars for a lot of years, and you might not think you're angry, but you sure seem angry when you're drunk. I feel like we're rowdy. It's so off topic here. And should. We end on the last one here to. Smooth it out? Yeah, it's smooth out. The very last question. What are your aspirations for your spiritual growth and how do you plan to nurture your spirituality moving forward? for me personally, my aspirations and spiritual growth, I think it's exponential. I think I'm just touching the threshold of what spirituality is, what reality is. I feel like it's taken me a long time to get to here. Where. My brain is even allowed to have those thoughts without crippling anxiety and panic and even still some crippling and panic, but being okay with it, recognizing it and old enough mature enough to recognize it. My plans moving forward is just to indulge in more spirituality, to find modalities that push my boundaries. There's so many things I'm scared to do that I have to do now. I have to do them because I've already experienced some things that are just the tip of the iceberg, not even the tip, just like the bottom of it. And it's like, I think I'll be I'll have a happier life if I can expand my spirituality. And there's ways to do that. And I'm all about neuroplasticity and neuroscience. And there's some of these plant medicines that directly drastically enhance neuroplasticity to a pretty extreme rate. And I believe that's part of expanding spirituality, is expanding neuroplasticity. And I plan on I plan on taking part in some of these modalities and expanding my spirituality, expanding my thought processes. Fun. Share, or more terrifying. Either way, I'll be alive. Not going to die. Re more alive. How about you, man? Of course. I think the outside of those two years, I would say when I was at USF, the University of San Francisco. Go dance, dance, dance, Go, dance, dance the dance, dance is just the name of the team. Like I had this two years where I really kind of I like it was so hard for me to do it, but I like in my head when I'm done being spiritual, I'm done. And like the friends I haven't, you know, those years were not spiritual people and this is a conscious choice. And then, you know, at 23, 22, you know, I started to bring back spirituality into my life and it's never stopped. And a big part is podcast. I like cannabis, the psychedelics because there's been a huge access to spiritual growth in my life on and off since I left the church. And yeah, I encourage that. Definitely. And it's something that I'm going to dip into plant medicine and all of that plant healing and because it really helps and works for me. By. Specifically, you know, this year and I've talked a lot about it on this podcast, you can just go back, you know, I went on a retreat and changed my entire diet for weeks. Months. Yeah. And started meditating daily and started doing yoga daily. And I read a couple of books on wellness and like, opened my life up in ways I never have in a very disciplined and ritualistic and aggressive ways and did it with my fiancee and then quit smoking cannabis and like for a total of like three and a half months and was the most sober it ever been and the most what felt like the most tapped into my true self, my spirit, this idea of what it means to be spiritual. I was like, so tapped in and then felt like I had gotten so from that whole experience using that plant medicine and then being so straight and narrow, it was like sober. And I got too sober and it was like this feeling of like I and it was like, I don't know, I was like, too edgy. And then it was like started using cannabis again, especially for my sleep. And it was like I learned on learn some more about cannabis in my life, my connection to it in such more spiritual ways than I'd ever imagined. And it became even more spiritual. And so I'm in a never ending. Glowing, growing. Explosive, expansive spiritual growth life thing, you know, whatever you want to call it, I'm constantly open to it. Ness and planning on doing more retreats next year. Which you're invited to. I'll go. But it's scary. And I think that, like, you know, we're not going to say too much about what we're talking about this podcast. But I mean, if you don't know yet, if you're we're. Really talking about psychedelic is it's like it's scary, right? I mean, we're like, no, I'm never going to do that. Everything we talk about, fear, I think becoming really vulnerable in any way possible and doing it being vulnerable daily in spiritual ways and being patient with myself and being open to doing the work. Because I think. That you've got. To do it. You got to do something. God like meditation is really hard for me. It's really hard. It is still in my heart. It is not easy. Cannabis works so well for me and I know for you and our sister because we probably all have ADHD. It actually makes. My ADHD worse, but I like it. I mean, I think it really I'm not saying whether it makes it worse or better. I'm saying that like we know that we've all been dying, we've all been diagnosed with ADHD and it definitely helps you feel better with your thoughts. It has just from there, ramp it for here. I was going with that. You were going on a rant about beer, Johnny. I was just going on a ranch. Going on a ranch? Yeah. And I can keep going on rant about this because I am all about it. Yeah. And yeah. that's thing. To say is that it requires work. It takes work daily work totally. And so I have been ever since I went on this retreat, I've been trying like daily to have gratitude every single morning deep breathe and do some arms. And I've learned different deep breathing and arms that really are frickin powerful, man. I'm telling you. And I learned this in that acting class I did for three months. I learned a deep breathing tactic that was very much in tune with the certain deep breathing I was doing every morning. And it's where you literally see the vowels. I didn't learn, I didn't make this up. But you say the vowels of the alphabet and you breathe in over 10 seconds and then you breathe out over 10 seconds. You do that a few times, and then you breathe in over 10 seconds and you use your diaphragm and you go, Ah, as long as you can't. All the way. And then you breathe in over 10 seconds and you go. A e R. And you do all of them and it's difficult, stretches your diaphragm and you feel so good after it. And so I'm a big believer now in these daily modalities of actual like choosing a deep breathe, choosing to have gratitude, speaking these things verbally with voice into existence and really practicing the cosmos within me, moving through main outward and back in. Now, back into my Do you know you have it sucks. There you have it, folks. That's spirituality. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. We'll find out. Yeah. Never. Yeah. Anyone? Anyone listening? I we get a lot of sounds here in the cast and it's a little distracting, but anyone listening that is leaving the faith left. The faith isn't leaving the faith. Just know that spirituality doesn't have to end. A common question I've gotten from a loved one of my life is it's okay to still be spiritual. It's okay to not be spiritual. It's kind of what led me to want to do this for the podcast. Like my spirituality is the the the ideology. You're you are only spiritual if you are in a religion or what have you. It is totally false and spirituality is greater. I think outside religion, at least from what I'm learning, is that outside of the religion I was raised in, I have now the opportunity to be a spiritual in any way with any modality I can without, any guilt, and no one's defining it for me. And so it's my inner inner spirituality is so much bigger and so much greater because it has the freedom to be whatever it's going to instead of having to be one thing a man. Why, Jesus heavens doesn't have to be. That can be anything. And yeah, let's, let's advance to the next section. Yeah, that was a it was a good combo and I love you and this podcast has been a really amazing, vulnerable way. It has been a really aggressive. It's been in a very aggressive modality to be vulnerable and to reach spirituality with you by connecting with our pasts in ways that I kind of knew would happen. But I didn't expect it to be like this. And I think spirituality doesn't to be like. Alton's oz or you can. Be literally in conversation totally. And so what we've created here together with our very, very, very small following. Huge falling talk, and. It feels like there's like a spirit to start to connect people that are being touched by what we're doing. You know, I don't know. Just like not being touch, being connecting with us. Yeah, there's like a spirit. There's a spirit within all of us. Like you said, I'm just another you. We are just versions of each other. And by being vulnerable and coming out public and talking about this shit because it's tiring and, you know, it's like, why do we keep doing it? And it's like, because we are desired more spirituality in our lives. And this is one way to bring community together. Yeah, because what's something I miss totally. I miss it. I definitely miss the church community, though. And I just miss community. Yeah, we keep talking forever, but we get enough. Are we doing a game, Cam this week? We're not interviewing anybody. Do you want to? What are we thinking? And do you want to do Nintendo or do you want to do something else? Let's let's ask the viewers. Viewers, what do you guys want us to do, like another round of the N64, Mario Kart, or should we play a board game? Well, looks like the vote came in. My vote came through. One vote came in. It was from my son. Yeah. Your nephew. Yeah. And he told. Us. Play Nintendo. Yeah. So we are again. This is Mario Kart 64. America at 64 that we're going to mount. Read it there first. I can't do it game. Okay, let's go over to the game. Yeah, there we go. Well, it's been a while. You're on the Road Combat podcast. We really believe, and returning back to our inner child, one of the ways that we do that is by doing the same thing that we did. After as Kids. Which was playing Nintendo. So we play N64. We just kids on this podcast. We've done a lot of, well, we keep doing it, I don't know, but we're doing it today. So there you have it. And we are starting at 7.0. 7.0, which. Means we've done every single battle six times, six times the. Starting seven. All the way through in this forum. So. You know. For writing, yeah. This is my and this is uncle's acts. Little baby baby girl by my. She has a lot of anxiety. If you're just listening. It's a dog, okay? It's not a person. That my baby. If you're one, that's my baby girl. And maybe she's confused now. All right, I'm going to be awesome. It's going to be. The music you're hearing. The background is from yours truly. Nanny from the. Day, nanny from the super duper, the. Big donut seven. here we go. That's out of three. All right, folks. I've really enjoyed wearing this v neck. Ah, v neck. God. I always nag you just masked old person figure. A curse, a person feel like a. Boom scare. I like a boom sound. We just got it shut. Ow, ow, ow, ow. Where am I going? wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. One. 00209 Did that have wow. You actually got no, you stay over there, mister. You stay over there. Ah. yes. This is going to work out Good for me. Come here. Come here. Yes. This is a crazy video to read. Three Reg. Whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. young lady, that. Was my balloon. That was it. no. Dang. Game one game, one down. That was sad. All right, Got to come through. I've really. Enjoyed wearing this. Turtle. Okay, Here you go. Got angels enjoying the turtleneck? Yeah. Is it comfy? It look very. Comfy. Looks a little itchy, but I'm wearing an undershirt and I do get really itchy with this type of stuff. But I'm going to miss you in the turtleneck. I'm going to have to wear this turtleneck more this season. That's why I bought it. Where more. Than once. Man, you have another holiday outfit. I wasn't aware that do a Christmas party last night. Let me tell you. Bangor people loved it made your hat. Which bitch outfit was that? I'm sorry. I'm being very aggressive in the micro now. I'm focusing on the game, on target. On a major low. I just went through you how you missed me. Do not too slow. You're too slow. I've seen a few things, Nathan. What? How come you're part of it? Yeah. It's uniform, dude. You are just on Monday night. It's. Yeah, I'm terrible. I love you. Learn commitment. Yes. wow. That was really. Well, we keep you all. Am I needed that star so bad? you keep cute. I do. Okay. man. Sorry. A lot of laughter going on over here. That's the whole reason why we play. wow. Wowsers. Why? shit. Yes, yes. My time, My time. My time has come. no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. man. Not one game sucked. Now, that game, you just. Didn't even think you were trying to seem like I was just. Dying all the time. It's the turtleneck. No, screw that turtleneck. Then that's where all that could be lit on fire by the time the next gas happens. Well, play dog. Ashamed. I really thought I was trying to smash tonight. You just proved me wrong. yeah. Great. Know, angry warrior looks? Yeah. Took his hand off, his. Chewing on it. He got pissed, you know, he looks like sad. He's, like, really upset me. No one loves me. I yell more indicators like, Hey, guys, go out to the bar. Hey, guys, go down to the bars and you must come with me. I'm a winner. Get handsome to gay. All right. As a game and echo garage on. I'm nice, Nice, dude. Nice, nice, dude. You throw. I did. We did this last time. I think we're just pure laughter. Let's go. It was really hard to like. I ended it in a weird way. You know, what's great is we could just end. Looking at what we want. We have no one telling us what to do. You know how it is. We're done day by.