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Moral Combat Podcast
Moral Combat Podcast
Forest Benedict Returns, The Power of Internal Family Systems | Ep 70 | Moral Combat
Forest Benedict: https://forestbenedict.com
Moral Combat, hosted by siblings Nathan and Zach Blaustone, is a heartfelt exploration of life's complexities, with a primary focus on healing from religious trauma. Step into their world as they navigate the realms of music production, confront the lingering echoes of religious trauma, and embrace laughter as a universal healer. With each episode, Nathan and Zach weave together their unique perspectives, seasoned with dynamic personalities that make every discussion an engaging adventure. From unraveling the complexities of personal growth to fostering open communication, healing the scars of religious indoctrination, and embracing the unfiltered authenticity of siblinghood, Moral Combat is your passport to thought-provoking conversations, heartfelt insights, and the pure joy of shared moments. Join us in the combat for morality, one conversation at a time.
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what's up moral combat fans hey everyone how we doing you know i say time yeah it's like the same thing hello moral combat my name is blaustone faust and i'm zachary ryan blaustone yes we are brothers but i i recently was married you were congratulations nathaniel thank you i'm broke she took everything no i'm just kidding uh thank you for being time here with the moral combat podcast we are a podcast that mainly trauma and traumas of all sorts what is that like childhood trauma all of that gets incorporated into this podcast um we bring in comedy we sometimes but that is not the focus here on this podcast the focus is um it's as authentic and honest as we can be yeah talking about why do we trauma in our pockets well we uh grew up um in a hyper evangelical calvary father as a pastor yeah and we have quite a bit of trauma and it's helped podcasts to help other people heal talking about it yeah hopefully they is not i mean it's not yeah it's not jesus complex is not in there yeah we butcher the jesus complex as much as possible indeed um but we are that we are finally starting to make some real strides um in a bigger having some wonderful interviews um christianity is the trauma that we in that um not everyone makes it out alive nope uh but some of us have us have yeah and then this idea of making it out of a radical religious church um the question is are you thriving after that and in studio guest you might have known him from a couple episodes ago we interviewed and they are with us today a little bit different of a podcast to be their experience and their practice as a therapist um in um working with radical upbringings and so this will be our first official podcast with a so i would like to give a really really warm welcome to ifs or internal family systems specialist and religious trauma thank you thank you it's so good to be here thanks for being here yeah studio but yeah yeah no it's it's definitely different being here in i can imagine it's surreal actually how does it feel right now being here like i i felt like our first interview was i felt such a re-watching it it was it felt like i was here in a sense right i feel it being an interim person it's just and technically you were and i was like you you were in the same spot you are now but you were a laptop on a screen yeah yeah but i just didn't get to look right at you guys being in studio too in our uh we're on the 10th floor of a really nice building right now in san francisco wow yeah yeah my legs are sore yeah we don't have an elevator the elevator bro yeah that was really have pelotons to the left in a workout zone this is the healing yeah thank you for coming in studio and you drove like what how long did it was about two and a half hours yeah it's amazing just did uh like a yeah in aptos area at the beach and the redwoods and right like santa it's you know all my it's interesting because all my clients are online in washington so it was like the first time i'd ever seen these guys in had ever seen themselves each other in person so it was amazing you know the wilderness and hug and just have this bonding experience sounds yeah yeah just to give a little background um you grew up in this that this podcast is being produced in and being you know accomplished father is a pastor and still and a lot of the pastors that we were different calorie chapel churches just like our last guest julian myers this county um but now you live in washington yeah but you're a practice therapist here in california yeah do you have patients in washington as pursued getting licensed there california is shitty enough you know here you can well yeah yeah and that's the thing i had all my clients california so well um and i just honestly didn't want to take a test yeah yeah that's a much harder test than the washington one but i was this works i'll just you know market and advertise in california and it's is your like um i guess like the you know how you put your name like letters letters letters yeah yeah what is your titles it's lmft so yeah exactly and for a while i had satp i mean i still technically have addiction treatment provider because that was what i was doing prior to work was sex addiction so that was i keep it on there still but i'm really know treat treatment of sex addiction like it was before and that was after started your practice or during while you were in the church yeah well yeah church like i pursued that sexual addiction certification from a and then i went on to like actually teach in that program and train sex pastors as a christian as a christian at a christian university yeah yeah fully in it yeah wow but and that's the thing like when you're doing sex you're always full because you always have a lot of these and this is just is a tangent from sure our plan you know but hey it's fun um but yeah all these christians who feel who aren't actually sex addicts but they watching porn and so you get you're always full of business you know are keeping everyone feeling like shit because of their behavior so uh thing to move on and and honestly a big healing and a step into from that into doing internal family systems work trauma work and work on shame you know like to me that was such a a move in alignment with got out of the church so that's felt very personally meaningful to me and helping people like fight their urge to watch porn it's like let's heal porn you know see what happens yeah and not that people can't have an sexuality but i mean i just love helping people be free and just their desires and yeah i'm i no longer want to partake in like that just feels so wrong to me now right you know and i went through all know i don't want to do that to myself and i don't want other people said if you want to go back and listen to forest's personal interview trauma and a lot of his healing journey you've healed a lot of these like in the church like you're saying yeah i i grew up thinking i was an yeah and you know a sex addict before i even had sex i was a sex addict you i cheated on over 10,000 different people's wives and whatever just by yeah so that was like an insane amount of shame around sex totally interesting to me that you were like a sex therapist and then you went shift out of the church and you were like now i gotta go back to the same they're okay yeah yeah yeah it is it's been such a i don't know the mindfuck yeah you know it's exactly right like serious to go from one you really certain you know everything about the world and how it works and as a professional even to going through this whole evolution the world is so different people are so different and actually it was talking to the guys in my retreat last night we were at dinner and i it's such a special thing honestly that i have the clients that i do in because it is a porn it is a sex addiction group but it's it feels kind of like accepted that i was evolving and and decided they wanted you know i still respect if they don't want to watch porn if they want support them but i also support them if they want to work through shame there's something like really meaningful about um yeah just being drastically as a therapist and a person and then just seeing trust how new people come or and some people stay if it if they're evolving of beautiful to just see who comes along who i get to work with wow as of real instead of being like you know as a section sex addiction to be like you know this famous author and impress everybody and now to help people deeply and it's really meaningful honestly to to help people that's really cool it's like yeah it's like ego death you know your ego over time yeah yeah but what's left is just that same like we don't change much but we grow immensely yeah it's the same trunk the same leaves new branches you're cutting things off but you're ultimately the that's that authentic self which let's make a lateral jump into um therapist as like mainly a christian sex therapist and i know in your you talked a lot about the book you had written in the past for the covenant eyes if anyone's ever heard of covenant eyes we were like you wrote a paper for covenant eyes like you have a history that's like so then as a christian therapist you become you're still a therapist is a secular therapist yeah if you will secular seriously with a like a practice right is about internal family systems or ifs therapy yeah to me like in the last six months what was how did you get into that yeah well you know i i know i mentioned um like some of my own psychedelics and and that kind of opened me up to realizing wow there's a lot of pain inside of me that um also that was unhealed and that's the i knew about ifs and i liked it a lot but not to the degree that i actually you know and and so i think i knew enough about it that like it was like psyche like kind of like reminded me of it and let me know that that was yeah and so i really deeply realized that through some of those felt this like really strong commitment to like it felt like i was and i was going into like a burning building and i was like so committed all the parts of me that were in pain and like healing them all and i was and so it's interesting i got into ifs training like almost immediately left christianity i got into the training um and and then i yeah helping my clients in that way but then i started doing a ton of my own practitioner and um honestly i found that to be incredibly life-changing um just so powerful it's not like normal talk therapy it's not just intellectual level trying to you know like psychoanalyze your past or try like cognitive awareness of like you know trying to make some peace with but it helps you get so deeply into your own heart into and safely into still and i just you know it was to me like i see those as like kind of child or like myself at younger ages and it just became so powerfully go back you know as an adult to like my younger self who's like kind of in traumatic experiences and give him the experience he needed to like heal and then like saving him take him out of there helping him feel safe again has this effect on the body and the mind like it actually kind of from being kind of like stuck in the past inside of you and and then it not orient orient your entire life around avoiding pain feel the pain all the stuff you do which is honestly for most people things they do are either to prevent pain or to react to pain when it's so that's kind of like almost a basic way of explaining some of how ifs the more of the pain and the trauma you can heal the freer you become and all these things that you have to do to avoid the pain and so i went so much so and that's how i you know healed my fear of hell healed um a like self-policing my every thought sexual thought you know i connected and realized holy shit like this is like a beautiful beautiful thing like around sexuality like this is part of the beauty of ifs is it helps you inside of you you know like we're taught like it's bad inside of you you're just broken right but like through ifs you like see like the inside of you and you get to connect with that and then you get to like and healing you like really know who you are at the deepest level and then on the outside it's just wow really profound yeah yeah so i've been great yeah it's awesome it's life-changing you know and that's why like kind of sacred you know i know that's a religious term but it does a client trusts me to guide them to go to the depths that we need to go heal them i help them heal themselves right and that's you're like a guide and i can like teach them and show them how to heal themselves which is that just is like i said sick it feels like sacred right round you a lot of them don't even know what is inside you know right and they're guide them to places that you know the every amount of energy they could could muster up to put into it um they've put into avoiding that then we're gonna they're gonna trust me and we're gonna do it very safely find those parts that are in pain and heal them and those parts i like how put everything you said to so internal family systems are like if look at it and what you're saying is like there are actual like other entities inside of us that maybe were embedded at different traumatic times or like yeah you talk about like an inner child and so it feels like to have these different age it just maybe different genders if you will genders but just like different sort of like energies if you will yeah and idea of like authentic self is that authentic self like the parent that's yeah yeah that's a really great those are really great questions and um ifs perspective it's like we all actually come into the world like um there's more than one and it's not like multiple personalities um yeah we have different parts of us that show up in different ways and like different responsibilities to keep us alive and um and and help us um and so those are like a natural healthy part of us um but then where is when trauma happens and then these parts of us take on like extreme so like if and and and that can that's when it can become problematic and then a part disappears you know it's like these this is um basically the the roles of parts when they're stuck in a job that kind of is kind our life harder harder and and less fun um it's kind of like a real a way and so it can still be part of us like it can still you know it adds more you know personality to us um in different ways um but uh but yeah it of like a sucky job like if if the job is like you know say you're born and you start getting spanked you know for like whatever you know you know rules you're supposed to follow you know there are religious you know no cussing or no you know you know all the stuff we're raised you get spanked you know or like harshly treated um you know that at happened for me i would say a part of me never wanted to feel that again being shamed in that way and abused which i would consider abuse for sure of took on this role of i'm going to be perfect at all costs and obey perfectionism yeah perfect oh totally huge huge part yeah and so much fear on any level you know because it's this fear of getting spanked or or so it's like a fear of getting punished in some way in the present it's also a fear of the pain of the past of when that traumatic thing activated also so you can see like you can you can it can really set you instead of like being yourself and feeling safe in the world and feeling it's safe to be you you know you get this part that's like no instead of that we're gonna orient your entire life around being perfect and never making mistakes and then throw in probably this this other is really dominant when we come out of religion a super harsh inner any mistakes then that one's gonna come in yeah critique and shit yeah oh my gosh you were yeah such a piece of shit yeah how dare you make that and and there's like no no room for just being human and like learning it's not safe to be imperfect right you know and so that's the thing like can take on roles like that to protect us and and they're like right they help us survive right really shitty situations like you what traumatically let's see religiously i don't know yeah i feel traumatic experiences unsafe situations exactly yeah exactly so then once we you know leave the unsafe situation they those patterns right and so that's why we need therapy and that's why you know or because unless we heal that that pattern and and go back and heal the kind of rooted in those behaviors will continue you know and and and it we're we're kids you know like we won't feel like we're fully able to because we have kind of these behaviors that we formed in childhood don't really realize we're safe now and like we're good like yeah those that and that god that was supposed to really gonna throw you in hell and that's gone and you're safe now um and so those parts don't know that so being raised in like a radical religious family and church with right white men in our experience um there's and then someone breaks free church normally having scars from family or people in the church out so there's all of that yeah so there's a lot of loneliness but what someone breaks free from that unsafe space or in this case the radical and there's almost like a developmental if you will like if i'm hearing you correctly that's like where you when you do go to much you've been controlled or are being controlled by these younger because of that trauma yeah right yeah yeah that's kind of a good way felt i was perfect when i you know left the church been perfect striving you know part of like right when i was out of the church i just went drugs and alcohol like the classic like oh pastor's kid like yeah but i such a confident perfect way like i was never nothing ever fucked up in to be perfect but i also had to like i was like acting like a child like a a lot of with my anger and outbursts and how i like those parts that were almost all of my 20s yeah yeah now i have these addictions to like speak yeah yeah yeah you know but it's interesting yeah yeah and those like another kind of part you know and those like those are like like i and the self-critical parts um kind of protect us from pain by preventing up an entire life around let's not activate the pain in any way but then types of parts and they're called like firefighters actually um that activated they'll get you the hell out of there and kind of like a put out the flames but they might also knock down the building so not really concerned about if this will mess up your life at all or your it's just like put the fire out get them the hell out of there you know in your that's like the addictive parts you're talking about that's so the fires i thought about that a lot that like when the fires wreaked this we had all those fires the firefighters one of the things they break all the windows down or open and the houses yeah where like the so houses just got destroyed by firefighters so that the house really an interesting perspective where it's like yeah keeping you but ultimately it's destroying you in certain ways yeah but and that's the firefighters they're heroic right they're yeah they feel heroic yeah and that's the thing i you know and this is very different than how a lot look at addiction or all the parts of themselves but internal family so it's even saying like and i know you got that book not no bad parts in an ifs perspective we don't demonize even those parts you know to get you out of the pain yeah i know yeah you know and that's my life yeah in this moment yeah we've talked about it a lot in this cannabis has been such a godsend like no pun intended mother ganja has been unbelievable support system for my systems yeah and has been the biggest and uh the only and i'm trying to like take another big break off of it fucking hard yeah and i'm really really hard on myself yeah you know me that doesn't have that firefighter right or that or like i'm really even and then i'm like all now simultaneously being like no it's we're gonna get through this you know it's like a little bit different yeah new for me to be speaking so and i learned that a lot from my plant was like becoming a mother so that i can mother these all of these things have saved my life yeah mentally in like so many ways and spiritually interesting yeah and and here's the thing and we didn't actually talk super important especially with ifs and just who we are is that um you are a little different are not our parts that at our core we're not just at our core we are like have limitless compassion and courage and all these eight c words you know um and there's some p words too like and like um connection caring like like that is who we are at our core is help them get into that place of them because the thing is like you're addictive parts to stop doing what they're doing by judging them right what the fuck are you doing like this is not working you know right so what a client well first kind of get to know the part of them that is that um and see if that one's willing to kind of relax a little to let us get part the addictive part but the only way you're going to get to know that the place inside of you that's that compassionate core that's really and fix it or get rid of it or judge it but it's like having a like why it's actually doing that because the truth of it is it's it's some way and it actually probably is aware of pain deep within you that that you're not even aware of right you know well it's like hey when when experience recently it it activated this part of you that's like let's that was like left in his crib with no crying with nobody to comfort him and felt like totally helpless and scared and terrified for example and you know a week ago and i was aware of that and i was like let's get the you know and i jumped in and protected you from that feeling you this kind of stuff happening in our psyche that we're not aware of even yeah like that's coming out into our adult totally selves it yeah that's i've i do ifs on myself and i feel because i'm trained in and i'm able trauma and um not everyone i'd say a lot of people can't do ifs on their as deep as healing the trauma having a guide and but there is a lot they their own to get to know themselves um but yeah the earliest trauma that was um in utero as i was being born wow because beautiful and it was the honestly that i've ever it was like not psychedelics this is just ifs wow yeah actually i was getting ready to do a psychedelic journey and i was and it was like a panic inside of me about doing that tell me about it have those for different reasons right and that's the thing i'm not healed just because you're afraid like there may be some legitimate absolutely but for me yeah it's it went all the way back to being in because when i was born i was unable to breathe wow and so me being me myself in that experience um and kind of witness what that was like for but then also kind of like rewrite the story of like hey um like what at that age was that like hey the people that are gonna that are on the everything make help you breathe to help you yeah just hang in there and and i'm sure i was crying because it was like the message was the message love will catch you and it it was so reassuring at the deepest level for and it allowed him to like be born into love and in my arms and even our did do everything to get in breathing again but it kind of helped me work it was the most profound ifs experience i've ever had i've had but that one on my own with myself was so profound and so yeah i would like you know ifs helps us get to places that are sometimes like pre yeah we don't have a conscious memory of this thing happened to me but it affecting us and our nervous system and like we're we have a part of us you know our system remembers even if we don't consciously remember so yeah to reconnect to that that baby that can't breathe yeah yeah well that's to help like for clients i have to help them get into that compassionate go to the baby and you're like you know trying to like psychoanalyze it like you won't get anywhere yeah like if you come in like a part of you to fix it or trying to do something to it you know it's different than really open-hearted compassionate presence that that feels safe to you potentially into a traumatic experience helps you feel safe going provide this like yeah very open-hearted compassionate curious part of you um in a way that helps it helps it feel safe it helps it feel wow i'm in this scary situation and like someone just came to save me loving and caring and powerful and let's get out of here you know yeah so it feels just really safe in the way um it works you know and you know there's more to the process than that but and honestly some some people that even to just get to where i described to you guys just now it that tell me about it we're on take a long journey yeah exactly well part just to get just to work with parts that don't feel safe going to the protective parts like and that's just how we're wired like our brains do right we'll do anything to avoid pain you know when i want death seriously pain yeah yeah so it's like very counter-intuitive to invite like hey pain from a little bit can we actually go to the pain intentionally like not everybody like it just makes sense that our system would have some or just really need a lot of negotiating and safety and like and feeling my presence and that hey we're not trying to just go in there or or see how bad it is inside of you like we're going to do this carefully right i know what i'm doing i know how to go where we're going to go and a little bit of time to get to the place where they can trust that where to be safe and it's going to help you and you're going to feel so much inside is going to be amazing right it's going to be like you might fear it's like bad it's like evil there's something shameful about you there's you you know like people are really afraid to see what's inside of them well the christian radical totally you know evangelical faith yeah where you know the world is horrible it's you know like um being the world but yeah and uh but you're born a sinner so you come into this world bad you yeah uh you can't do anything good you have to do it through jesus you inherently you are you are not good which i know that and you brought up who um i got his book and that's the book here that i brought out it's the self that authentic self that um this was the guy that kind of like practice right over the last four decades yeah and he talks about the inherently good and that's what you just said that's what you're talking were all raised radically in a religion that told you that you were from the jump yeah that's why you needed to be saved because you were yeah exactly god is good god is yes right right you and you are not yeah and like then internal family systems kind of opens up the door and helps realizing that the cosmos comes from within us right it's like birthing we are beautiful yeah we're all god yeah and that's the thing like you the ifs process and there may be other processes it's just the one love the most you know and im trained in but that's the thing it's like you the world as a little baby thinking you're bad or thinking like you're wrong with you you're shameful or something and so yeah like that's a and yeah and a belief yeah you you you come to believe that and so ifs help you release that belief yeah you know and kind of go back to like the were taught that yeah and like release that you know and honestly just say okay let's let that go are you ready to let that go but part of showing up in that moment with that younger part of us and like i said needed in that moment when that terrible thing happened so it could like and this doesn't come from our minds it's not like us saying oh i this one but kind of letting that one guide us but um but yeah it could be when you know you're sitting in church and you're you realize you time you're a sinner you're terrible you need jesus you're bad inside but with us sitting next to you yeah and and then we're like like what did that moment and and they're like i just need someone to stand up and say you know and say no i'm really good and and get me the hell out of there adult or somebody that's powerful to just say let's get out of there or or i just need to stand up and say this is bullshit i don't believe this you holding my hand while i do it you know and there's something it's like need motherly role it's so and father whatever you know it is it's like and it gives we're able to like kind of infuse our courage into the moment give them it like rewrites the story in our psyche you know it's like that this happened and it righted that and now we're gonna live based on the like rewriting over that part in our brain and creating a new story you hell out of there because then they don't have to be like trapped in that trapped back in time you know like we can kind of get them out of there and safe and then we're taking care of them now you know it's like hey yeah we'll connect with you if you're ever feeling down or sad or angry or you and i'm gonna care and i'm gonna take time to be with you and you know back in the day yeah when you're just told be anxious for nothing you know verse you just pray more you know you're actually responded to like we in that way and that can be especially healing too it's just a we're gonna take the time to be with ourselves and like love ourselves in needed wow yeah that's that was really good i think um it's weird like i assume we all think we know ourselves so well and i think that just conditioned behavior versus it being truthfully your own being yeah so when i say that all the time on this cast i've been saying that for like my truth you know you hear these terms you know truth to power a lot of this is like how how do we really discover our truth what is self yeah and so this internal family systems is this idea it's like this to being able to get there yeah but then the actual practice of it right indefinite it never ends yeah yeah and so like what you're what you do you can go to therapy you can talk to a therapist and there's like huge therapy or talking with anybody and but you actually have these intense i but you have these sessions that are like ifs like we're going to have an to where you facilitate in helping somebody get to that part when they they know themselves really well or they know they can get there then and i think of it like even think about like yeah there is maybe a psychedelics and i've always experienced like where you can do psychedelics and like a fun party way with friends or you can do it in a and those are like astronomically different yeah right just having the same place you are isn't using the same medicine but they're you through this experience that ultimately is really confusing and like ifs an ifs session can probably be really scary or it can be like it's a journey right to get to that spot yeah well that's the thing be intense i mean it's it's what i say a better word maybe would be like important but we can do it in a way that doesn't feel intense because if protective mechanisms would be activated right and they'd be like you know all right so that's the thing is we can help people get into and then go to the trauma because that that really is a big part of the kind of remembers the memory that was traumatic while in a calm state that emdr or some other thing that to me is a big part of the healing is that takes the powerful wow energy out of that traumatic memory and it's not remembering it but it takes away the intensity yeah so like while i was driving through petaluma on the way here right don't you love that come back to your trauma yeah yeah yeah the space well that's the thing like and i all you guys and myself had different experiences with church and like i don't consider my time at calvary chapel petaluma to be is petaluma is where my dad was homeless like in my early 20s okay so like oh wow there's where my dad's homeless camp was right under that you know where all these memories happened and then you know driving i'm going up the hill where i'm like in the car driving my dad who's drunk and we're like listening to keith green and he's singing drunk and i'm my only chance to like connect with my dad you know so i'm like getting coming to me that i would say definitely your trauma you know like went through when i was like in my early 20s and so i'm getting all through you know and even you know even as we were getting ready to do me you were you live by the fairgrounds i was like oh wow my dad we close to anywhere near that we're a little ways away okay good thank next to where i got my first accident so oh wow yeah so that's special and then i think of all the trauma that happened when he lived at that stuff but the thing is it doesn't activate me in the same way anymore it used to when you came back it used to be yeah it used to be so traumatic traumatic but activating of the trauma and of like so hard to come i've done healing in each of those memories you know and it's like oh i but it's like it's okay i can come here i still have family here let's know like we're doing right now let's create yeah this memory here together welcome to the new church yeah yeah i've always thought about ifs i mean introduced to me for my fiance in school yeah uh with this book yeah um so uh i can't really speak too much on it but just thinking of your yeah um helps not make it so intense i feel like when you connect with it can't really deal with it and so yeah a lot of my therapy uh coming out of even knowing it not even identifying like at 1920 um i would be too scared is and so it would be like yeah you need to meditate and bring your like i'm meditating and it's like nothing was working but then if you well here's this this scared boy i'm just gonna watch him yeah what does different than being the scared boy asking what him he needs yeah exactly might find like oh i need to calm him down yeah you know yeah like it i like in your child's anxious like telling them to calm down yeah that's relax yeah relax relax relax yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah so yeah i'm didn't work you know that's what i love about ifs honestly or at least it so i love about it is this this little separation from the trauma it does feel like they're just parts of you that you can heal yeah and then you can start that practice yeah and that's the thing like if you can like a younger boy or or somebody you know however it's showing up in your person or animal or who knows what you know what i mean but it's just it was somebody that you know and love that's scared you'd be like you heart to them yeah it'd be like oh from a compassionate place oh let's it could be trauma related it could be like oh wow all people are a i've been rejected so much or bullied so much so it's like the past coming make you afraid right but it also could be a legitimate thing to be it's illegitimate if it's trauma based but it could be like hey this yeah unsafe yeah exactly like real yeah yeah like your body could be thing not yeah so it's like why would you want to get rid of that yeah actually helping you you know not do the dangerous thing yeah so yeah and know that unless you got into conversation with it totally you know like seeing it as kind of a separate entity or part of you it just is so being in the part and being like i'm anxious you know because then it is we're the we're the little boy anxious yeah and we're a lot less get our needs met you know if we're just acting from that place totally connecting with that part of us and then saying oh this is what you need we provide safety and maybe they need a hug from our partner or something and we're we're we can help them get their needs met in that way you know it's like the same way you can have a successful romantic partnership or a really good parenting relationship with your kids like with will go through something and you know as a parent i ultimately can quick with everything he goes through right like oh let me help you not oh no let me protect you from that like my reaction is i don't want him don't want him to hurt at all let me take care of that burden for you yeah parent that like it's probably incredibly important for my son to and for me just to be always there by his side yeah right like the whole have like to be seen to feel seen yeah to be reminded that you're good that were so um i don't know what you want to say like coated with the lives yeah and i didn't feel like i mean my my parents were so coddling and then non-existent and other like in these ways right where like there so as a kid like for me just thinking about how to think about it like i've parts and been speaking to them now for like a year and he's like this loud and rambunctious little eight-year-old it's just so pure right now about that one the other one's 17 and he is aggressive as fuck like one way like don't tell me what to do yeah parenting that is my new journey very difficult like yeah being able to like see the 17 year old and trust for you we're gonna get through this like yeah another part of me is a super scary and also like beautiful and like the coats so nice and like they're just like so inherently such family oriented you know so like yeah so much fun i personally have never done a like real ifs yeah i know like this she did the audiobook of this oh yeah which is the whole audiobook is right where they like he like and so she did the audiobook and it was like transformative yeah just her having this audiobook finding it she started know she's totally fine with me sharing some of this but like are like the weather reporter oh or the architect interesting she like of these like jobs or these roles interesting and she'll talk of did that i just realized the weather reporter was talking and i want to wow i love that yeah i don't think of it that way but i love that people do i'm gonna be the lion yeah yeah yeah that's cool that's awesome yeah yeah ways i think it is kind of unique to each person and how they identify all like younger yeah child yeah yeah like i have i have a whole timeline myself on my wall from like birth all the way up to now and like a picture like save those pictures of almost every year all the way up and so like a healing i'll be like oh that's me at this age you know wow and so and interaction with them like a lot of my sexual curiosities and energies that's like teenage and younger adults related parts but some of it's just being an adult you know right yeah and so i don't know it's just with parts with yourself and honestly it's like a it's like loving yourself you know instead of like i think a lot of us when we come out of like just hate that younger christians oh yeah you know despise it's like how stuff how did you treat people that way it's like we have all this self to know that younger christian self part of us you know like we just be genius you figured out how to play the game to survive all of that i love you you you're awesome and and and you don't have to do that anymore with that like almost like we're safe look how well you survived yeah yeah appreciation about yourself and that's why it's so valuable to get to because from an open-hearted place yeah because then you're like wow they're not bad because they're actually what kept me alive what i being told that you're going to be forever banished from god and from like that is probably the most terrifying thing you could tell horrific like how do you imagine your psyche is going to protect you from you know you have this natural part of you that's like wow okay i'm gonna do to avoid that i mean that is that is heroic yeah you know like we judge you accept christ that was such bullshit you know how did how could but if we think oh wow that actually saved you from this feeling that you in hell right and banished from the community like yeah that was genius we've always what a great strategy that we always said like the trauma the trauma might not actually present itself at all unless you left right cult right when you're in the cult you're you're fine you're safe if there's all this horrible shit happening and all that your brain instinct mechanism which in christianity too and karo chapel you know like hyper hyper avoidance pyramid scheme to keep you into those perspectives right there just kind of like one way or the highway one way i mean to use like my anxiety as an example the only way to deal with it it was i was always told to like pray pray all the time for sure maybe like a big one like maybe yeah maybe it is it is from the eastern religion but uh satanic yeah it's horrible don't ever meditate but to like instead of asking yourself why you might be dealing with it why you and i feel like so many christians today and i again don't want to talk at all but like it is put all your trust in god not yourself you're not it and like that life is just a struggle you're starting from a you come out of it if you're able to make it out alive and uh you take is a great tool taking control yeah yeah i mean the bible literally says pick up the cross and walk yeah so completely forget about who you are this burden which is a symbol of just a terrible death violent crucifixion your shoulders and walk right exactly yeah pick up your cross how much work that for so long and i think what's it was yeah and did after and even right it was like and i think that's what you initially started off by uh you know you you have this whatever you're radicalized and you how long does it take or like instead of just being okay i'm living it's thriving when do you start really going getting to like know these started because uh these parts were driving forces and you know some of in my life yeah um that stemmed specifically like i know not speaking like christianity does a pretty good job at like yeah really creating parts in us that are all like you are a sinner you're not good you're not need this man who died on a cross you need this god you know who said trust that one person and all of humanity is based off and if they then they're lost so you found the truth because all these things that that are so the opposite of this yeah literally it feels like the opposite yeah um what happened so you said perfectionism yeah and you said the seen just in your practice like when did actually my first question would how long has it been since you've been out of the church yeah well yeah over four years so fairly recent yeah but fairly recent but i know i've this but i've done i did intensive therapy now you know i went all in experience was like i'm committed that was like me showing up for 90 for like a year and a half wow and doing like therapeutic um psychedelic like with a guide with me so i was like very committed to healing right and interestingly i i realized coming out of one it was also some some of it was actually based on like something's wrong with me and i and and that can also be an unhealthy thing too you know yeah because it's especially if it comes from like i need to fix myself to like be like it gets a little sketchy there and you know like but but it did help now i would say i am able to like safely and authentic be myself enough healing around like the perfectionism people pleasing self i'm able to just yeah just come to myself and take care of myself from a and just be like yeah it feels safe to authentically be myself in the and to find people that i feel safe with being myself with and um so yeah of the parts that i would say i got healing around and then and then i christians and just doing this work you know i've come to see like there parts that i would say are more are pretty dominant when you come out of religious trauma and so yeah like like you mentioned like perfectionism with a lot of people yeah super harsh inner critic like ridiculously you know yeah tell me about it yeah so you know um yeah and let's see pleasing yeah yeah and that's an interesting one too because you know fight or flight you know like that's those are pretty well known um like know but fawning is another one fawning fawning you know and it's you know i have to yeah like i'm intimidated by you because i think some reason so i have to please i have to make impress you or i have to you want me to do and i mean talk about fawning like you can this this i did want to mention mention this you know we can we can have like a a christian and and i think some of that is kind of like fawning because abusing us is also the person that we're supposed to love and and that kind of like co-mingle um trauma and love and so we basically like come to and um and then i think fawning can be kind of a part of that too is like we have to please them at all costs so you know like we and and it's all not actually there like right right right it's all fictional you know but it's real and we believe it's real and then we you know we can be in like i have to please everybody that i'm afraid of and you know always be kind of like kiss kiss ass i mean it's a terrible term but it kind of i totally relate to that with just uh growing up as a kid in the church many like um i don't want to use the word scary people but people that and scary and the church is all about love and yeah when you're raised in fawning is so big yeah i want to make them happy i want to make them think yeah all the things yeah totally relatable yeah and you can i mean all become like your personality totally you're just the nice guy yeah you nice you never stand up for yourself you never tell people what you really nice yeah you know i mean nice people i mean it can get you places but it back on some of who you really are it's exhausting too yeah you get home unhappy yeah yeah all this stuff you didn't express yeah because it you get through just to survive the day you know and so yeah that's the thing parts of us that are just we just we just think it's our personality but all this stuff we do to protect ourselves from pain and to me that of the take home i would want to like deliver for this podcast if i could i to take home the red carpet yeah yeah yeah it's just this whole idea that get free if you really want freedom in your life like to actually wake up degree what you want to do with your life what you want to create and to do that is just you got to heal your trauma right because those parts will wow and you'll just consider that your personality oh there was this um i think i said his name wrong but who cares that's perfectionist um but think it's something like until you make the unconscious conscious it'll you'll call it fate it's that's what it is you know like people don't what they're doing is just is not freedom it's just to prevent pain or and to me that's that's as far from freedom as you really get honestly like this is how i act in this situation to protect myself you know also not living like from an open-hearted place you're not like safe yeah like honestly before i did interviews i've done tons of especially when i was a christian and sex addiction therapist tons of yeah is it hard for you to have that all still public uh because i'm public well yeah like a lot of the recordings are i've thought about down but i figure i've let at least the people that follow me know that i haven't gone back i've thought about it you know take i unpublished so many interviews that i'm like that's my recovery story out there listening to that but yeah i haven't fully gone back and request the yeah that's tough you know i would almost say that might be a part of well to try to perfect this yeah yeah yeah perfect your image i think if public light like in your whatever whatever the however they look i want it maybe especially in today's day but like internet yeah yeah like private you know like yeah besides you know coming on the moral comic popular of course it's getting more popular it is it's awesome i'm place i was i was gonna say this perfectionism um unless you were say something else well i was gonna say something just about the yeah that's the thing is when i was doing all that sex addiction work and and i would do like ads in the newspaper like about fighting like movie and wow the hustler hollywood store that's coming into town like i very public about it damn yeah yeah i was really passionate um but then i you know and like um that was before i did any of like my deep trauma a lot of what i presented in those interviews was like performance and i have to i know how to impress people and i know how to be smart and but and so a lot of fawning and a lot of i'm not safe unless i impress you and honestly that's part of what i love i think what i loved about our and and this one now and just feeling in my body what it feels like to be it's it's like none of that it's like you know before i got here i'm how am i feeling what do i want to talk about do i have any feelings i i settling into like being here with you guys and trusting myself and and being safe yeah and like not being caught up on like oh wow i got and impress everyone and get clients and just be this amazing expert you that is because i was caught in that part totally so much in the past wow so different i mean i but i appreciate that part of me still i you felt you needed to do that especially with like a lot of and invisible and like i'm fighting for attention and stuff so i have younger guy that did all that stuff but then i guess i just want to test it feels to feel healing from all this and to just be like wow i can be real i don't feel like i need to impress you you can be a super smart yeah yeah helping soul that isn't perfect yeah yeah well hey that's me yeah i was just gonna say that perfectionism even using our podcast we try to make this podcast fucking perfect yeah to the point to where me fights in this studio um every time we set up cameras and we get ready our we get to see how much we're healing as brothers and as people consistently try and zach is so much different than me and this and like i of perfectionism you know and uh and like we want this to be perfect and stress and like and like perfectionism has been a huge part in like that might be one of the um longest form parts that i'm getting to like heal more just like be softer with yeah yeah um because like i'm i in a life where i get to like reap the benefits of being perfect yeah with my boss and all my patients and like my friends and colleagues and me and then provide and offer me opportunities based on like yeah and been like fascinating how that is something that has been living with like even outside of the church right like what is the american dream pull day and be a hard worker work hard like build up your money and your drive in our culture to be perfect or to be strong oh yeah and to never best version of yourself yeah meanwhile our country is a doggy dog everyone's for themselves yeah there's very little social structure country wasn't built on that so not only on a religious sense it's like there's so much that has been like in my brain and in my body it's kind of it's like i gotta be the best yeah so if i'm gonna work out i gotta have gonna play drums in this band or i'm gonna provide this i gotta be the and i were kind of briefly talking about that aspect that i was like a drummer in the church from like 12 years old with my dad and i was a people like find jesus through my drums they're like yo i've never like you don't even think you're like you're trying and i'd be like wow it's all jesus threw me yeah at 12 yeah and that developed to being this percussionist to where like every band i was in after the church yeah or whatever i could be hammered but i was like this really really fluid play with anybody yeah and it was like this cockiness that developed yeah and it's like and i think when you and i were talking this earlier but maybe i don't know if it was there was somebody that like made like do you do you feel like maybe you didn't have a choice to be yeah when they asked me i was like holy shit yeah did i actually choose that like something at a survival yeah where it was like i'm gonna be and people are going to be like giving their life to christ because best version ever exactly because now i struggle with like wanting to play because it's like this whole new part of me that's like or like i'm finally like wow there's a lot of things in my life i'm really really really good was forced to be perfect yeah at a survival totally it's fascinating that's a great example you know and honestly like and that's where it i like do some ifs with that part of you and get to know that part of you probably take you back to you know i'm just guessing like you said the you learned that being perfect keeps you safe you know right like yeah of do to stay safe that's what your body's designed to do um and and to little bringing a little peace in here like um i think a lot of considered complex trauma you know complex ptsd yes because that's the yeah it may not just be one event that happened where you're like oh now but you know one of the traits of complex ptsd which you guys may know in a traumatic or unsafe situation and you can't get out it's continuous you know complex trauma because it's not like you can recall just oh yeah it's like multiple times yeah it's continuous yeah yeah so it you know it still mean it doesn't mean you can't get healing with it but um but a little longer and it may be revisiting parts multiple times and experiences and um but yeah it's definitely doable and that's the be an amazing drummer right but it's like you get it takes it takes the if you're not amazing or like if this podcast wasn't perfect that you'd be be okay and honestly maybe you you might feel some feelings still like or something but it's like trusting that your future self will catch you perfect wow it's you'll be safe it's like trusting that like hey if i'm if an imperfect interview you know like i have food on my face a little you have sorry you should have mentioned that i wondered i felt sorry oh oh nice nice yeah that was intentional um but yeah it's like i was preparing for this interview i was like okay have all these things i was like trusting okay but also i'm gonna trust that i'm just gonna be and if there's something you know i wish i would have said to just make you know i'll forgive myself and i'll just be like maybe i'll add to a blog it's just like low intensity the idea of like messing up in some way you like yeah you just giving yourself the space and time i mean i know for going to be that right you want to do your best or whatever you want to say definitely but like in all of life like if you just give yourself a communicate with that part and just being like that whatever yeah it's actually success yeah right yeah yeah because perfectionism can trying to allowing that part to rule will also can also like for like help you say mean yeah or go down tangents that are like yeah you think are perfect something that they want to hear the same idea as like fawning right like these people want to hear i think so like to make their podcast better or goal is just to be like 100 what it is yeah let it be yeah and that's not for just like using our podcast as an example you know like um well i don't our podcast was probably our first art project where we actually were like this ain't gonna be perfect we know shit like we set up our iphones which was still which was still really good uh like i'm sure it was editing and everything and it was it was still really good but we weren't trauma yet and even when we started to incorporate that uh and like never got aired and it was a really deep parental religious trauma and we like our first experience of us failing ourselves you know wow yeah 70 we've interviewed a handful of people the real stress now is i feel interviewing because they're telling their trauma story you know and we've that have never aired because a camera goes off or something or less with a guess and so like when you were bringing up like the stressors is oh i owe it to them though yeah it's one thing if we if we mess up a we failed us oh yeah but like to fail someone else is like oh it hasn't we really try to make sure it doesn't yeah yeah that perfection comes for perfection comes almost for like for the guest yeah and so i'd be curious would happen i would just feel i think i think the guest would feel just went through like a really emotional interview yeah yeah they then asked to be like hey it didn't work yeah uh we can schedule another in that place it's like we already have to like discovered how tough it that place right i would hate for a guest to have to do that yeah it's about it yeah yeah but but then i would just throw in there that if happened here for for this interview even like it'd still be okay yeah and be like okay well i get to hang out with you guys another time i mean like i don't know and to me that's the thing is like trusting that it'll up you know and trusting your future yeah yeah i love that and i just did someone for this like dirty culture program that's really amazing and things that she mentioned was that is not even really using the term but learning use using the term learning experience instead you know away all this pressure like oh my gosh i can't fail because every time learn the most i'm sure you guys learn the most after all these mess of the road us to buy cameras to help us to do a lot of stuff that night we thousand dollars like in that night i was like sit down we're buying the i think i texted you like at midnight and because we already had them in like i'm buying mine right now by yours like we're not doing this yeah see you learn so much through making mistakes you know yeah and then um yeah just trust yourself which is i'd say another part we we come out is not trusting ourselves yeah we're not supposed to yeah and like not or us that that we're capable of actually making like really good authority telling us what to do right i mean that's a whole another thing talk about a mindfuck seriously yeah you're totally dependent on somebody source outside of you telling you or helping you exactly it's actually can that that's what you're saying is like ultimate freedom yeah the you compass you know it's kind of i think in church like they would that's like to trust yourself like you said you're supposed to deny yourself the religious authorities you know the bible those are the things that supposed to do with your life you don't know i don't know you're evil you're you're just gonna follow your flesh your sinful desires are like talk about not trusting yourself so yeah if you leave religion you experience learning to trust yourself or even listen so i mean yeah there's of us that i think helped us survive religion that just stay with us after like you know just bringing so much patience and compassion to ourselves for decades that's such a traumatic thing to go through and it's gonna how to actually be myself in this world and and it's okay that it's might take the rest of my life in lots of ways too and i'm just gonna and be like yeah that was like crazy what you went through so yeah it's long as you need you know we'll just be this in this together you know you loving relationship with yourself it that's just such a amazing feeling rediscovering your intuition yeah i feel like totally the religion takes or your yourself your spirit yeah it turns it into god and so you can't and so when your intuition kicks in you're you don't even recognize it yeah now you're starting to communicate with this intuition of yeah yeah yeah it's so amazing it's funny because you know i i think i still get verses popping into mine probably you guys too but i'm like oh the still small voice you know right and it's interesting because it's triggering me yeah of course of course um but yeah it's interesting could we can learn to tune into the voice yeah inside of us that's our our ourself that knows what's best for us and that's the thing too based you know like and that's that's possible too and we might listen to the thing is the more healing we can get the more we can tune into what is what is our truth oh that's another piece of self you know i didn't but it's clarity you can come to such a awareness of just such a clarity you but from like your core and you can realize stuff that's like wow i level this is what's right for me wow and i'm gonna do it instead of being calling me to move to hawaii yeah right that was like such a common me to marry that that girl and you're like really does she want to yeah and said it's yeah you yeah knowing with like that sort of internal you say it it's you but if you say god's calling me it's like well or by saying god's calling you to it right totally yeah god's telling me not saying i'm just you know then you go buy yourself a nice car because we did see that a lot in church too we saw that so much god told me i as the pastor's kids we saw a lot behind the curtain oh i bet yeah well how the bible was created it's all these people thinking they heard from being a lot of just really fucked up shit that was created from people trauma and like i don't know that's i see the bible so differently now like there's so much wrong with it and so much problematic that causes leads to problems in the world you know and think about it it was all these god was thousands of years talking to them you know and men yeah totally if women that were sharing their peace in it they took that out of the bible yeah um it's very skewed yeah and oh i was gonna say like um i loved julia's interview you know like i loved that interview yeah it's one how many people responded to that but you know it's just one of those realize afterwards like she has such an amazing heart and brain and so think that the church would like discount her and say you know you a place and you can't lead it's just mind-blowing like what the fuck is then the church would be so much better you can even go on our youtube while we're while we're recording this episode yeah um there's shorts going up and our podcast is full of christians commenting on all the no way and so the it's almost like wow our podcast is starting to see the trauma or to see the culture at least yeah coming back and being she's completely wrong it says in the bible this verse women did it and proving our point yeah exactly because it can sound pretty barbaric raised in it yeah and then it's like but there's still people like that a woman shouldn't be in charge a woman shouldn't have a word seriously again it's just like all this stuff that doesn't make any sense you know even but yeah i i think a lot of traumatized men wrote the bible yeah didn't have any healing they just were like probably abused in think about i i mean parenting strategies have changed a lot just i don't know there's just i just feel like so much unhealed trauma was let's help people behave the specific way because this is what god wants controlling totally all people yeah yeah like it's like traumatized men unresolved traumatized men wrote the bible and unresolved traumatized men totally right yeah and it attracts a lot of it is just very it is just church right with all of the child abuse and child sexual abuse yeah and like it's so not hard to see yeah it's so easy to see what i think talking about julia's in like the one our most recent podcast that's out out because we're filming this before it comes out was with nick the ex nick valentino to see that yeah thank you nick we love you comes out comes was fascinating was interviewing julia and her experience as like a going to marietta yeah and then right after that interviewing an ex calvary to maria who was like a man a white guy oh my gosh and his experience correlation in very like mirrored way like i don't know like it's really it's um how this culture this religion like trains men to hold that life or like no women are like this i'm gonna put them on a pedestal yeah forced to work under their you know like all this and how his experience fascinating yeah it just is on every level yeah the religion kind of approach to being human yeah just yeah so much and then you just find like how you did i was a leader in it yeah given i walked away like 16 15 praying at the pole you know like yeah i was president of the christian my bible i was telling friends that they needed you know like need a me too wow but i became that leader because my dad was a leader and women what my sister was and i you know like that wasn't something she was about doing i was just like i just followed the track perfectly yeah you was that the same for you zach or i i well we had a really different moved away um when i was really young because she got married oh yeah and allowed them to separate themselves from the church and then deconstruct knowing yeah super safe wow um nate got kicked out when i was 15 and he and that just put me alone in the house and so i was like hyper coddled and then um was dealing with a lot of anxiety and panic and so i couldn't myself i would say into my mid-20s wow um and so it took me a while i i the word of god at like 19 oh yeah like senior year of high school more and want more friends that weren't christian which is like so but then i just i just stopped identifying as a christian but not and then it wasn't yeah i moved to new orleans for a little bit and got huge thing yeah it's separating yourself from the space totally um about it and be curious yeah like your big advice yeah in your podcast dude that was it for me just being curious where does the bible come doctrine that's ingrained ingrained in me where does it really come from comes from oppressed white men yeah and who says it wasn't changed you throughout history yeah it was yeah exactly and things were added and the history texts of it it's like the real important parts that we run our added yeah it wasn't spoken you know yeah um but then yeah so i started later in my 20s it wasn't um nate nate was like young he per like 15 that he wasn't a christian anymore i couldn't say those words until five years ago wow okay like i wasn't a christian to my parents yeah wow but i think mentally i let go of it younger yeah okay yeah wow and you on how brave you guys are you know oh thank you like seriously yeah i mean courage it's taken it's taken a long time um where we're at now having all is really showing us what we're doing yeah we were just doing it alone yeah austin i would love to reconnect with him but it's like episode 17 is our wow um but other than that like we didn't bring anyone else in and since people in we're starting to cause a little bit of a rust we're like that's good and i think it's really good that we've waited this long oh gotten really strong in it ourselves yeah we've we've experienced a lot of ourselves that now that we're here we're like no we really believe in and we think it's really special and so now the words aren't as powerful thanks for saying that though because it is it is pretty terrifying it is and i say that to anyone that leaves you know and finds their own way like definitely to you guys and the situation with your dad as a pastor much courage that took to to choose your own path um but yeah also i just too and anyone that's willing to consider leaving like that is really rebellious acts you could imagine but just but it's such an act of courage self-alignment like i'm gonna put my whole eternity on the line yeah to do for me yeah to follow that that is just so brave yeah so brave and and start of a whole lot of healing and process and everything but just yeah hell did we do that you know well i would say you did it too i know you yeah so much more brain development yeah got concreted in it and then you it and so like i applaud that like crazy yeah you know like you said how one like i've come in in my healing i've come to learn how to be actually my father oh yeah the one that i used to blame for all of my trauma yeah very little right as i've healed which is really really nice and podcast i have a better relationship with my parents it's very very very safer and healthier than it's ever been yeah that how did i break free i'm thankful for my father he raised i mean my brother too and my sister experience was like he really raised me to be like hey you need to be this world anybody that tells you to believe something be critical minded to an age where i was like yeah so i'm gonna be really critical about believe it was like he trained me to do just that and when i was like 15 all the time he'd be like i can't believe you're just falling away and me to do this yeah to question the things that i feel wow like and so bring alarm to it yeah and to bring words to it and then also to speak wow and so like we had a father and a mother that like mostly our dad that that and that's what he lived by and he found christianity interesting like think that how did i make it out or how did i find and that's like one to this day we rarely talk but like i had a friend that was like a die-hard on his knees praying he was such an amazing intellectual person who we cannabis together and i was so scared of anything outside of the bible of and he wasn't raised in a family that was confrontational and but we were like his upbringing gave him the space that i needed as his best sort of overly emotional chaotic chaotic like person wow that was so outside of the church and he was just this friend that was like hey i just it's really interesting let's talk about it tonight over a joint and i'd like when i finally like was okay with weed and really like enjoying would just like tell me these thoughts he was having that were like was like really scared to hear them yeah but then it would be like while is becoming neuroplastic exactly oh nice and so like i how did we make it like is i didn't do it alone yeah that's what i'm trying to say yeah it the like and like getting out of the church you feel really lonely and deconstruct you feel less lonely right you can live out of the church deconstruct yeah right and so like my deconstruction started as a die-hard with cannabis and a best friend who we would go and do like hikes and we be like how how is this christian you know like how is this tree christian i was just gonna answer that question and say that that's like i give a lot being alone i definitely support system i was gonna say that i i like didn't do it alone because it does like you said it does feel like all internal yeah and it's all like letting go of your own fundamentalist to just have that friend like i i'm so thankful i had my brother and my you're okay to think yourself you know if i didn't have that i still but it would have been more challenging for sure yeah that's point wow yeah this has been amazing yeah i know i know it's actually perfect yeah if you think about it yeah it did um anything else that's i the acronym we came up with after your interview the last time you know toxic medicine and all that but we came up with cock yeah yeah kindness yeah yeah and i think courage was like another one that you a lot of c's that you could totally but um that's kind of the name of the where it starts and ends is having compassion openness curiosity and that sweat it's like that's a huge heart yeah of growth healing yeah to yourself yeah yeah yeah it's you know it's a great way to like you know like to me that's one of the most valuable things about healing is yourself deeply in the ways that you need you know learning to really care make time you know to connect with them make time to connect take care care of um your relationships you know and start to tune into what you make time to prioritize those like prioritize pleasure prioritize even have an imagination about what you could do with your life you know like you're in survival mode you don't get a chance to do and so um yeah i just like us returning to ourselves oh there's another great book ifs book you've been waiting for cool you know so talk about being your own savior that is that's where it's at you know we can we can save ourselves we can we yeah it's amazing how we like ourself does know how to heal and we and follow that and yeah get free wow i love it it's pretty awesome yeah um clients right now yeah california definitely um is that something you or offer that to our listeners or oh yeah yeah definitely yeah i have is it forest benedict.com yeah that's my website forest benedict.com we'll too okay yeah awesome yeah um anything else on your mind or heart silent voice what's on your heart today that's so christian seriously it's impossible oh it's everything dude interviewing nick was hilarious it's kind of impossible sometimes to not sound like a pastor when you've it's like oh totally like it takes a while to like maybe like have a or it's just i know yeah i can tell i can tell if somebody's been a pastor oh yeah exactly it's the language it is but yeah no i oh i do want to last interview i was just like watched it you know and was so guys are doing you know and i just yeah i don't know i just want you doing is really profound it is excellent you know it is like really will continue to and i am a super fan you know like it feels i mean i that interview with like everybody religious trauma therapists i know christians reconnected with some of the guys from the band you know like with so many people and it wasn't just because it was my story but you want to affirm what you guys are doing i really believe in what you you bring so much like heart to this show and podcast um and you're know so and that might be labeled as perfectionism and there may be some it is also like really excellent and so i guess i just want you to know um words coming to my head but it's like giving my blessing in a sense you you guys are doing is awesome here i just love being a part of it and um with you guys you know totally so anyways i do want to make sure i say and i i can't let you just say that without me saying that i'm very a really if you think about it a short amount of time you have christian therapist into an ifs religious trauma therapist yeah doing um for yourself continuously and how that translates to your shown here on this podcast is excellent yeah and um and i can feel your body your aura your energies just exudes it you are when you vulnerably we had a conversation about things you're working through as we heal we have trauma that we're healing and you're just so honest that you feel you feel very safe yeah and so if anyone's watching this curious of how to approach ifs or whatever definitely hit up for us safe and softness this is this is the person that will help you facilitate that so i'm very thankful for you and um coming on our podcast twice and story and then providing this sort of practice that you've been yeah doing appreciative thank you i appreciate you um and i'm sure we'll have you on time and uh you've helped us just your interview alone we've booked a people reaching out to us and uh so shit's getting busy yeah yeah all to go to the forest yeah exactly we're just forest yeah yeah we're so like in our corner and like our yeah totally it really does feel like a deconstructing religious trauma and how that looks is forming yeah and yeah that's awesome thank you for that it's gonna be totally anything no well folks thank you so much for listening to episode 70 of the moral been forest benedict my name is nathaniel i'm zach and we will see interview another interview they just keep coming just keep going it's all right everybody thank you so much thanks everyone bye
