Jordan Dolby, Punk Rock Religion, Childhood Memories, & The Devil | Ep 76 | Moral Combat

In episode 76 of the Moral Combat Podcast, hosts delve into a rich tapestry of personal experiences and reflections with their special guest, Jordan Dolby, a longtime family friend and tattoo artist. They fondly reminisce about childhood memories, from playing video games and watching movies like The Princess Bride at church gatherings to participating in dramatic religious plays and mission trips. Jordan shares his unique perspective on growing up with what he describes as a "punk rock religion," highlighting both the positive and challenging aspects of his upbringing. The conversation touches on substance use, with Jordan's limited experiences with marijuana and alcohol contrasting with the hosts' more extensive encounters and subsequent sobriety journeys. Personal growth and struggles are candidly discussed, including dealing with anger issues, the impact of ADHD on focus, and the dynamics of family relationships shaped by religious differences. Jordan's career as a tattoo artist, motivated by his need to focus and quiet mental noise, adds another layer to the dialogue. Amidst these deep discussions, lighter moments surface, such as an engaging game of Mario Kart, which Nathan wins, marking the first time a guest joins them on the "game cam." The episode seamlessly blends introspective conversations about religious trauma and personal growth with moments of joy and connection, offering listeners a heartfelt and multifaceted exploration of life within and beyond a tight-knit religious community.

More Jordan Dolby:

http://www.jordandolbytattoos.com
https://www.flirt2convert.com
https://www.instagram.com/jordandolby

Moral Combat, hosted by siblings Nathan and Zach Blaustone, is a heartfelt exploration of life's complexities, with a primary focus on healing from religious trauma. Step into their world as they navigate the realms of music production, confront the lingering echoes of religious trauma, and embrace laughter as a universal healer. With each episode, Nathan and Zach weave together their unique perspectives, seasoned with dynamic personalities that make every discussion an engaging adventure. From unraveling the complexities of personal growth to fostering open communication, healing the scars of religious indoctrination, and embracing the unfiltered authenticity of siblinghood, Moral Combat is your passport to thought-provoking conversations, heartfelt insights, and the pure joy of shared moments. Join us in the combat for morality, one conversation at a time.

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Transcript

0:00

All right, what up moral combat friends, family, and foe? Family and foe. What up MCPFs? What up MCPFs? Moral combat fans. I always say this, do we actually have fans for this show? You always do that. It doesn't really matter. We're still going to keep doing it. If someone follows our social media accounts, you realize that we have more friendemies than we do actual fans. Yeah, I like how you just recently blew up a clip where you're like, if you're a Christian, you go ahead and comment. Yeah. And you tell us all the bad things that we're doing. And you know what they did? They commented and told us all the bad things that we're doing. Yeah, they did. If you're wondering what we do in this podcast, we typically like to talk about something called religious trauma. Religious trauma. And why do we talk about religious trauma in this podcast? Because we grew up in the Christian evangelical church. Yep. And that means every week or every other week, we are here talking about either our trauma or if we're lucky enough, other people that have suffered from religious trauma as well. Yeah, indeed. Today, we're not necessarily doing that. What are we doing today? We have a very special guest. They're sitting across from me right now as I live and breathe. Don't spit like that. I know I did just spit. You just spit in your mouth. Actually, if you could smell my mic. Yeah, it smells like straight booty hole. Smells like trauma. Smells like Trump's mustache. Hey, why did you even say that word? When can I talk? Shut up! On today's episode, we have a very special guest with us. We are so lucky on this podcast where we talk about religious trauma, which is a heavy topic. It is. It's not always light. It's never actually light. And very old. Old family friend of ours that we grew up with. You're already talking about our guest. I thought you were introducing us. I was talking about me first. You love talking about yourself. Recently we've been having some amazing guests on, sharing some unbelievable stories related to religious trauma and their past experiences. It's heavy shit here what me and Zachary do. So sometimes we really enjoy having lighthearted, fun podcasts. Is that today? No. That is not today's episode at all. Yeah, very serious episode. This is a very serious episode with a very serious person. No jokes here. And there's so much that I want to say about this individual, but I'm going to introduce them now. Please stop talking until we introduce you fully. Give it, give it some time. You know, now I have to put the camera on you before I even introduce you. I always wait. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to give a big, warm welcome to probably the greatest tattoo artists on the planet. Not even close. Shut up! Jordan Dolby, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for having me. Thank you guys. This is the one song I think of, right? That's the one song I always think of is like that crazy, crazy song. Jordan. Yes. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Welcome to the Mortal Kombat podcast studio. We are on the 15th floor, downtown San Francisco. Yep. Thank you for coming. Sorry the elevator was broken. Yeah. Dude, if I'm sweating, that's why. Not the nerves. Yeah. No, no. Not the nerves. No, no, no, no. It's the 15 flights of stairs you guys made me walk up to. And also the homeless guy had to fight. Yeah, no. He's always there. Yeah. That was security. Oh, that was the security guard. Yeah. His jacket was nice. They suffer from a lot of trauma. Yeah. A lot of trauma. I buy him a donut and a jacket. Oh, yeah. For sure. Drug addict once, come on on. Come on in. We'll take you on full flesh. Yeah, yeah. Want to watch some children? Come on in, man. Sure. You're two years clean. That should be good enough. Yeah. Why don't you share your story on the pulpit and we'll go have you take care of the youth. You're the youth tester now. All right. Share your testimony. Yeah. What was San Quentin like? Yeah. Anyways, go talk about masturbation with those 12-year-olds, will you? Yeah. Dude, no. Stop. So, Jordan Dolby is a pretty household name for Zachary and I. Yeah. We go so far back. The funny thing about this episode is we've been talking about this episode for many, many, many, many moons. Yes. Moons. Probably for a long ass time. Yeah. Our families go so far back that we go before there was any form of religious trauma. Our parents knew each other when they were like teenagers in high school. Oh, yeah. My dad and your dad were best friends in sixth grade. Wow. That's how far I know. See, you already know more than me. Oh, yeah. I've suppressed so much. Yeah, sixth grade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's all... We can talk about everything. Mm-hmm. But they have quite the history. And I know that your family was living in South Dakota. For a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Mm-hmm. Which if you know anything about South Dakota, if you don't- It's a wonderful place. I'm sure it's beautiful. I've never even been. Hey, it's a shithole. You said it. I am. And if you're watching this from South Dakota- We love you. We love you. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Subscribe and join the Patreon. Yeah. We know that you too can move to California. Yeah. Yeah. If you're lucky. If you have friends that'll take you in. Yeah. Yeah. Give a fee to them once you live with them for five months. There's a new security job opening up. Yes. You suffer from religious trauma, we'll give you a job. We'll give you a job. There's kids to watch. We'll take you in, just like the church does. Yeah. Are you a drug addict? Come share your testimony in the pulpit. Yeah. Is he repeating the same thing over again? That's me. Talk about yourself? Yeah, that's me. Anyways. Wow. Anyways. Wow. I remember being- I don't even remember how old I was. Remind me, I was like what? Maybe seven, eight? Oh, it was young, dude. Well, that's the thing, even going further back, before we moved to South Dakota our families were friends. My dad held you guys as babies. Your dad held me as a baby. You know what I mean? We are- Way far back. Connected. You know what I mean? I don't know where the camera is. Yeah. Yeah. Way far. You need to look right here. Right there. Look right there. Just look right there. Raw. No, there's videos of you guys being babies and being at birthday parties and your dad helping me push one of those bubble lawn mowers. We go way back. Way far back. Then we moved out to South Dakota and we were out there for a long time, well, three years to a kid. That's forever. It's South Dakota time. It's like, time slows down out there, it's fucking weird, dude. No, I literally say, well, my dad told me because of how we lived out there, I got to experience what it was like to be a kid in 1970 because nothing changed. Everything was like, you could ride your bike to the penny candy store and then there's old man Jenkins saying his racist bullshit. You're just like, okay, crazy guy. I'm going to the- Touch me. I'm going to the town pool. It's just like, and then when we came back to Napa, we lived with you guys for a little bit because we were in between houses. My memory, because a lot of this time in my life, I don't have much memory, which I don't know if people remember their childhoods. Do people remember? Well, I'm a freak. Yes, I remember everything. It's good. It's good. I'll help you. Trust me. I remember. Thank you. Oh, I've got stories. When I talk about my childhood, I have so many memories of our family during that time because for kids, we have so much of our podcasts, we talk about how horrible the church is and how much trauma it caused, but then we have this part of our childhood that was just like amazing. Oh, that was fucking tight. So much fun. Oh yeah. And this was so much fun that happened in these youth groups, at these camps, like all this shit. And so I think that's important to talk about the fun parts of our past too, the more we heal. But it was fun. That you should be able to reminisce even about the good stuff. I remember the memory I have, and it probably didn't happen this way, was like me, my Natalie, our sister and you. And it was like our parents, they're like, we have a surprise. There's going to be a family of five moving in with us. And they're going to eat all of your food. They're like, what? Where are they going to live? Yeah. Me, Natalie. And it was like, they'll fit. They were our friends from childhood. Come on in, guys. That's what I remember was like your guys walking in and seeing your brother and sister and you. And you guys were like, hey. And I was like, you guys want to play some video games? Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly what we went and did, right? We went and played video games. Yeah. Yeah. No, we, we played Super Nintendo and we, you had, I think the return of the Jedi one. And I, I remember like looking at, yeah, we never got past the first level. It was always the Sarlacc pit and then, and then if you did get past it, then it's the Rancor. Like, dude, get the fuck out of here. I never saw the end of that game. Never. It was so hard. Well, no, they used to make games that hard because they were made for arcades to keep you playing. It was gambling. That's what it was. They could trick kids. So now we play games that make you feel like a God and you know, they make your cock feel big. It's like, I'm killing everybody. Like, I'm so good. Back in the day, I can't even shoot the gun. It's so hard. It's Pac-Man. And it's like, you're fucked. Give me another quarter. You know? So I, and yeah, I remember that playing and I remember that actually being like a big part of our like friendship was video games and you guys talking about that, like, cause I remember like, like church was fun and you know, do the, do the routines and the stuff. And then it was always like, Oh, one of the Blossoms and 64 time, you know what I mean? The big one was rush hour. Oh yeah. Oh, rush hour. Yeah. Rush hour. Rush hour. I think it was called Rush Hour. I think it was just called Rush. Rush hour is a movie. Rush hour is a movie. It's a movie with Jackie Chan that we also watched all the time together over and over. We watched, we, yeah, we weren't allowed to watch. B.W. Herman. B.W. Herman. We weren't allowed. Jackie Chan. Who am I? We should like, we should go video games, movies, and then get into weed and then masturbation stories. I got a couple. I like those guns. This is mine. We'll finish the climax of this episode will be how many times you got caught because I don't have a high body count, but I have got a high cot count, you know what I'm saying? Chronic masturbator. No, no. I love it. Everyone deals with trauma differently. Right. But no, but the, it was actually Zach was the first person that I saw beat Star Fox and I thought that was impossible. Star Fox. Wink. Yeah. Link. Do a barrel roll. Yeah. Help me. No, no. It was that, oh, hey. We should go, hey. In Link. Yes. Yeah. But Star Fox, I remember you killed that big monkey dude and I was like, Zach, you did it. We won. Dude. Yeah. I was like, we did it. You said the line. Do a barrel roll. Do a barrel roll. The other game that I remember, this is a traumatic, let's talk about funny trauma. You guys had a PC and on that PC, I thought, I thought, no, I thought I had, yeah. Was it pinball? No, no, no, no, no. This is weird. Little house on the Prairie. No. It's a movie. Sorry. No, no, no. That Oregon Trail. No, no, no. This was a hospital game. It was a hospital simulator. Oh my God. Yes. Now I, with the scalpel. Yes. And I went, I went, crazy full Jeffrey Dahmer, dude, dude, we're playing it. And I'm like, it's like, this person has a hurt knee. I was like, I need to remove their eye. Oh, do I remember this? And they're like, doctor, are you serious? I go prep them for surgery now. And my brother Daniel is like six is like, moving the mouse and like removing this person's eye. And Daniel runs and tells your mom. And all of a sudden I hear, Jordan, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm a doctor. I don't know. And I was never allowed to play your games on the PC again. Oh man. What a wild game. This is back when there was dial up. Yeah. So you hop online and be like, so these games are like flip floppy disk games. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it was the thing in my memory that I remember from this game was Daniel crying, your mom yelling at me, me looking at the screen and the president or whatever the main person of the hospital is, is, is animated going, and papers are going everywhere and he's like, you're fired. And I was like, you're holding a bloody scalpel. I'm holding his eyeballs. I'm like, yeah dude, check that shit out. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And then, and remember that whole thing was like, there were kids in the church that could like play double O seven and then there were kids that couldn't, you know, and there was like, we're playing paintball mode, mom. I'm not shooting actual people, mom. And that's how we got around the halo thing because it was like, it's like, it's not real. It's not real. Yeah. We would go play one on one and just kill each other. Kill the shit out of each other. And what you do is like halo one, for anyone that can relate to any of our video game history is you would take one of the soldiers and you'd put like 15 grenades underneath him. I would see him just ragdoll off to the heavens. Are you boys killing aliens? Yeah. No, I was like, no, I'm sending Colonel to fucking heaven. We got him on the lead. Yeah. We're trying to save him. Uh, this is, uh, I'm trying to get him to the rapture, you know, why do you guys squatting each other after you kill each other? Oh, it's a sign of respect, mom. Don't worry about it. Yeah. With my balls. You know, they still teabag today. Oh, it's terrible. My son and his friends teabag and I'm like, you guys still do this. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's okay. It's not. It's I'm like, it's okay. So let's make something very clear. The things we did on Xbox live. Yeah. Borderline hate crimes. Okay. Sure. Horrible. It also was the start of that type of communication. Yes, it was. Well, yeah. It's just like you would be like, Hey, good game. And you're like, okay, nice to meet you. Yeah. Hello. And no joke. The first time I ever logged into Xbox live, I went over to my friend Luke's house. I'm gonna say the full name and he's like, Hey man, I gotta go get something to eat. Xbox is ready. Halo two. Go fucking do it. And I was like, and I get in, I have the headset on, I go multiplayer, join lobby. And the first thing I hear is, well, it's only up for years. And I literally was like, uh, what the fuck? And then one time Daniel beat the shit out of something like Daniel, I might've been Halo three where you and Daniel were like terrorists where I was like, I'm not playing Zach. I want to feel good today. And you guys were like going and you guys beat the shit out of somebody. And it's when like the connect was trying to take off and someone sent their butthole to him. Cause he was like, yeah dude. My brother's like message from clown 69 or something like that, like those are hate crimes. Like you can't do that. Like dude. Yeah. Cause I know that you have an eight year old. Yes. Um, do they play video games? Yes. And I tell them to save all those photos later. You let me inspect them. No, no. Yeah. He plays video games. Uh, but we play like couch co-op games, uh, Minecraft, you know, the normal eight year old ones. Yeah. But I did recently and I was like proud papa bear moment. We played Halo three and he, and he little terror dude, he can, he's, he's it. I remember cause we were playing like the N64, that whole concept of this one moves your legs and this one moves your arms. There was like a learning curve. Yeah. My son just like that dude. He's like, I got it. Yeah. Now it's crazy watching my son play wild. Right. Um, growing up with some different technology to them. The thing is it's like playing the game itself is fun. It's watching him on the menus. Oh really? That's when I realized there's a difference. Really? How so? Let me set it up dad. Oh, I got this. I can set this up. Yeah. He's changing the gammas. Does this help your old eyes? He's like, you're so slow. How did this happen so fast? Yeah. Right. Yeah. And we'll go to the game stores all the time and people will tell me like the, we just recently went to the game store and he wanted to get Roblox. Yeah. Robux. Is that what they're called? The game is called Robux. Robux. And they're Robux. Where do they age me too much? Yeah. See, we were more of the RuneScape. RuneScape. For sure. I was RuneScape. There was only time where we would ask our parents. Well, I didn't either. I wanted to kiss girls. None of us like, we didn't, we didn't take our parents to the store to be like, dad, can you buy me video game money so I can buy this outfit for this game? So it's different now. Evan doesn't even want games. Can we go to the game store so I can buy a game card? So I can get a venom outfit, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. That's very weird. What they're doing now is he wants Robux so that he can donate to people on Roblox so that they'll join his YouTube channel. Right. Yeah. He's buying subscribers. Weird. Your son is a genius. He's like, dad, I'm going to have so many more subscribers than you. I'm like, you're buying them through Roblox. And we're doing it through trauma. Yeah. Don't you see? We're buying our subscribers through trauma. Who wouldn't want a droid? Yeah. Trauma bucks. Trauma bucks. Good idea. There was some guy behind a desk at a game store. He was like, hey man, you need to be careful with the Roblox stuff. And I was like, while he was like looking around the game store, I was like, why? And he was like, there's old guys that like to talk to little people. Kids. Yeah. And I was like, really? Tell me something I don't know. You should have known when we played Halo. Oh yeah. You should have known Halo or just that like weird like Yahoo games and it'd be that ASL bro. And it's like, uh, I'm a fucking chick. One thing that me and Luke used to do is we would do this scam on people where we would like talk to them. Like we were this cute girl and then we'd go and we'd get them like, be like, oh bro, like take your shirt off. And they'd be like, fuck it. You know, it's off baby. I'm like, okay, I'm taking my pants off and I'm straddling your face. They're like, okay. And it's like, and I just shit in your mouth and they'd be like, oh fuck you piece of shit. And we're just like laughing and kicking our feet. If you're listening to this and you're wondering what insulated Christian boys do for fun on video games. This is it. Yeah. This is how we get it out. Yeah. That's what we do. You know? It's kind of funny too that you mentioned that like you would meet friends and stuff that didn't grow up religious and then you would like almost act that way and they'd almost look at you like, you guys are fucking animals and we're like, no, you're the secular one. The first time I ever saw real pornography, an actual printout was from somebody that went to the Christian school in town. Of course. Well, yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget it. Yeah. And I couldn't go there cause it was too expensive. Just saying this truth. Oh, to the Christian school? I had to go to the public school. It's funny how Christians can't go to Christian school. The irony of that is hilarious to me. At least all the rich Christians went. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck em. We could just, we're just going to keep going here, but yeah, the main, as if you can't tell the main reason why Jordan's here on our show is because we go so far back. There's so many stories. Your family, your dad was a pastor, right? Yes. Yes, sir. We come from the era when all of these stories, when you guys were living in our house, we would have home fellowship nights. People would come over. Our dads would play worship music. The adults would sit in a circle in the living room or family room and all the kids would go in the back and watch like Princess Bride. Princess Bride. We'd put on pointy hats on. Yeah. Yeah. Go to the kids table. Jordan's was considered an older kid, right? So he'd be friends with the older kids and they'd beat me up. Yeah. Give me swirlies. Yeah. When you told me that I forgot about that episode. Do you remember every story? Do you remember every story? When he told it to me, it came, I heard glass shatter and I was like, oh no, I did do that. What was so sad is Nate just wanted friends so bad that he acted like it was cool to have your head put in a double head. Oh, is this what this is? It's a fucking gacha? Welcome to the morning combat podcast, Jordan. Oh, gas, Jordan. I'll see myself out. You just sit there and shut up. I remember, but I also remember a time where, um, uh, me and Ryan were going to have a sleep over and we brought you and you were stoked and we played games and it was fucking fun. And we did this fucking cringy ass thing where we like, we're pretending that this bottle of Mountain Dew was like Jack Daniels and we were drinking it swig for swig, making like promises to each other. Like first girl I ever kissed will be my wife and you said shit and everyone said shit and it was like, I'll fucking die a virgin bro for jesus like take the swig. And then we all got strep throat dude. Fuck you man. He had strep all the time. It was like we were French kissing. It fucking sucked. Dude. I have no memory. Why did we always get strep throat? Do you remember the time, dude, there was a time. Oh fuck. This is how fat I am. You came to Ryan's house and you had just got your braces. You had braces, right? Yes. And you were like, I didn't understand. I was jealous cause I was like, man, Nate's going to look so fucking hot and you do. And I was like, and I'm gonna have these crooked ass like fucking fucked up teeth. And and you were like, dude, it kind of like hurts, you know, and your mom to like help you out. Like I bought you like a happy meal and I was like, yo bro, you gonna fucking finish that. And you're just like, yeah, I have two fries. It just hurts. I was like, it's okay buddy. Those braces hurt so bad. I didn't understand that. They did. Anybody that has braces knows that that pain is ridiculous. I didn't understand. I didn't understand. There was like, you know, pretty fucked up teeth. That's who they really had three years of braces. And then my mom and dad, you know, they paid extra money for me to get the retainer loaded. I know they had the best health insurance ever for the kids because we were so broke that we were all the government retainer that had the music symbols on it. And it was like, you get like a designed retainer. Yeah. That one was twice as thick. So it was twice as painful. Oh, but you want the music notes. My mom went, if you lose that, you're never getting another one. And I was like, that's crazy. You know, like four years of braces and if I lose this, it's over. I lost it. It was over. Oh, bro. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No one thinks about urinary catheters, bro. We're all thinking about catheters on a daily basis, aren't we all? I'm not just thinking about urinary catheters. I'm always also thinking about pure wicks. Do you even know what a pure wick is? Yeah, definitely. It's a thing that's pure. And uses a wick, a pure wick. It's part of a candle, duh. A pure wick is cotton wrapped around a urinary catheter tube that you put in between women's legs so that when they pee into it, it soaks it up through the suction and fills up the container. Cool. This part of the podcast is brought to you by Blue Chew. Men. Men. One in three. So one of us in this room, get Blue Chew. Get Blue Chew. Wait, we're not sponsored. Do you have to say that? Because I don't want to get sued. Jordan, I have one question for you. Let's hear it, brother. Do you even have any religious trauma? Honestly, man, no. OK, moving on. No, no. Yes. Yes and no. So let's let's get serious for a second. Let's get serious for just a second. We've been giggled. We've been giggled fitting. Just a second. One of the things that you said, yeah, I'm interrupting you right when you want to get serious. Go ahead. Is Jordan said, I'm a little bit nervous being on the podcast because I don't think I have severe religious trauma like the rest of you fuckers. Well, no, I like I've watched your show and it's like you have people that are so fucking smart. And I'm like, oh, fuck. I was like, I didn't want to. I wanted to bring like a like a lightheartedness to it. And not and not belittling trauma at all. Like I've been through trauma. I've felt trauma. I've had to go to therapy, but it wasn't over like religious stuff. I always think God or, you know, whatever, is that my dad came to religion later in life. So he, you know, was like, yeah, God and everything, but also like, use your brain. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and we listened. One of his favorite bands is Oingo Boingo. And like they have this song called Gray Matter. And it's about, you know, if you don't use it, you'll lose it. Kind of a thing. And it's and he I don't know. He just always was about, you know, use your head, you know, be, you know, be present and just sometimes like it would be kind of like confusing because he'd be like, yeah, you know, surrender to God. But if anyone puts that boot on your neck, you fuck them up. And it's like, whoa, like shit, you know. But but no, always I kid. But it's it's he. He taught me that no matter what the situation is, you approach it with love. And that's mainly why I'm here, because like, I don't I love you guys. Like, I don't care what you believe. I don't care where you stand. I don't care what your political views are. I love you. You know what I mean? I don't I love I love my parents. I love my sister. I love your parents. I love Natalie. I love I don't want anything bad. You know what I mean? And I'm a very sensitive person. Like, I feel pain, you know, when I hear that people are hurting, you know, and it's it's like, thanks, mom. She's very sensitive as well. But I am very lucky that my dad kind of. I skirted the line between like religious and also kind of secular, because it was like, I think there's a good balance there. It's almost like I called it kind of like punk rock religion, you know what I mean? Like in my head, that's kind of how I was like, that's what it is. You know, it's like love Jesus, but also like, you know, be normal. Yeah. Which is a huge difference, though, because there's so many parents kind of like, like don't want to put our parents on blast, but some parents just fundamentally follow the Bible no matter what, even if it feels wrong. Right. Right. In certain moments. Whereas like what you said, having your dad be able to be like, well, also use your brain. Well, he would be like he would say something like I even talked to my mom recently, and this is kind of the point. She would say something like, I believe the Bible a hundred percent. Right. And it's kind of like, OK, there's things in there that are a little strange or kind of hard to wrap your head around. And but no matter what the situation is, approach it with love. You know what I'm saying? So what we were talking about was like like homosexuality and stuff. And there's people that believe it's a choice and they don't. And there's people that like there's Christians out there that believe if it's not a choice or if you say that it's not a choice, that it is a choice, yada, yada, yada. What it is is it's about loving one another. That's the point. You know, and that's that's it was in our house. It was always about like the love of Christ. You know what I mean? It wasn't about works or you got to do this because you're a pastor's kid. You got it. It was about you're your own person. I'm showing you the steps. You're going to walk in it or you're not, you know. So it was so to sum up, it wasn't there wasn't one. So you don't have any religious trauma? Not truly. No. What the fuck are you doing here? I'll leave. No, no, no. You can see your way out. Take your and your chair out of here. Well, let's talk about. Yeah, I had to bring my own. It's the executive. It was $400. It was very expensive. The the thing I wanted to talk about are like weird moments. So I don't know if these are trauma. You help me. OK. If they're trauma. Tell me. Well, we don't have any answers. OK. We don't have any answers on this podcast. I have all the answers. Thank you, Zach. Just before you go into it. We've had some very smart guests that actually like academically prestigious. Right. Like we recently had a person that just got their doctorate. Yeah, right. My wife is getting her doctorate. Right. Our sister's getting her doctorate. Right. I'm a fucking nurse. Yeah. OK, I can place a good IV. I'm a fucking tattoo artist. You're a tattoo. You work with needles, too. I work with needles. I talk about, well, just farts and shit. Like I don't talk about anything. You know, I'm actually I actually think that being a tattoo artist is you're basically a therapist. I do hear a lot. Yeah, you hear a lot of stories. Plus, you're putting them in through painful situations. So I'd imagine you do hear a lot of crazy shit. Oh, yeah. Well, what's weird about it is I have this theory is like if you put someone in pain, they're going to tell you secrets. Yeah. So I'm kind of like, well, let's go. Here we go. I'm tattooing this young lady and I'm tattooing her and I'm just like doing it and I'm unprovoked. She's just like, so I had an abortion. Just like, have you told anybody this? I'm like, oh, shit, that's a big deal. And I'm like just tattooing. And my brain is like, say something. Yeah. Say something. You idiot. Say something. Yeah, guys. What came out was how did it go? Oh, my God. And I was tattooing the blackest part of the tattoo. I wanted to dive in. Yeah. To the blackness and die. That's like a Brian Regan response. Oh, bro. Yeah. How? And in my head and my brain started going, do you see a fucking stroller? Yeah. Dumbass, what the fuck are you talking about? And she she didn't miss a beat. She was like, oh, it was great. She just told me what she went through and we worked through it. But holy shit. Yeah. I was like, I'm very like. Like, I don't know. I just go through life just like I'm just walking, man. Yeah, I don't know. I think that you brought up how you're a very sensitive individual. And I think that when I think about, like, memories of people outside of brother and sister or my family that I can remember, it's you, you, your sister and your brother and your family. That's as far back as I go. And ever since I remember you is you're the funniest, crudest, loudest person who's also the most sentimental person ever met in my life. I remember having memories. Yeah, it's a compliment. Thank you, man. But I do remember having memories. I don't know if we were watching, like, Animal Planet or something, and there was some animal that was getting eaten or something. I remember you were like, tearing up. Oh, yeah. I remember being like, wow, he feels something. I don't feel anything. Should I be feeling something? Yeah, a lot of empathy and a lot of like, like, I don't like how the like, I hate how the animal kingdom works. It's terrible. And I also hate how we're beautiful. Well, yeah, it's like a cheetah. He's like watching things die. I love it. He's all like, this is why I love being a nurse. Well, it's funny. I was watching, like, Planet Earth with my son, and it shows this fox stealing these ducklings, like just fucking them up. And he's and I'm like, oh, shit. And then it takes it to her cubs. So it's this moment of like, oh, you bit, oh, mommy. Like, oh, you sweetheart. And my son's just like, oh, cool. Yeah. But I'm just like over there like, oh, the duality. With this, how do I do? You know? And then, yeah, I just yeah, I'm very sensitive. And I just really yeah. Very, you know, we were talking. We saw a kid break his arm or jaw. Was it member broke his jaw? And I you remember me saying something like I hurt because he hurts. Right. And you were just like, what the fuck? What's wrong with this guy? I think I was just I was actually making a connection of what it meant to be truly sentimental, because there was so many things happening in childhood that I would look at, whether it be like deaths in the church or other people's sufferings. And you'd like go and from a Christian perspective and be like, they need Jesus. Yeah. And I wouldn't feel as much sentimental about it. Like I wouldn't feel bad for certain people. Sure. And so I think you were really the first connection I had to watching somebody that had like extreme sentimental feelings for most things. Yeah. Which I don't know. Maybe you get that from your mom. Mom, mom and dad. My dad's sensitive to like, he's tough, but he's he's a soft heart to your whole family. Very. Yeah. Yeah. Very. It's very important to lead with love. Like that is very important and very core to it. And another thing that my dad always said growing up is he said, I'm not raising you kids to be good kids. I'm raising you to be good people. And that's something I say to my son. I was like, oh, taking that. Yeah. Right. I ever had kids. I'm saying that. Thanks, dad. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like. And that was he talked to us like adults. The goal wasn't to make good kids because you're not going to be kids for very long. You got to be a good adult. Yeah. So, yeah. But this is why you're here. Yeah. The reason why you're here is because you're family. Yeah. And our own history goes so far back before we were even having guests on this show. Me and Zach trying to figure out what the fuck we wanted to do with it. Like one of our first descriptions for this show, even before religious trauma was even brought up, was this was our like artistic display of a brotherly relationship, becoming a relationship again. This was our way of doing it through art because we have to we have to be on a stage. We can't do anything that's not on the stage. And it's fucking true. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's exhausting. It is exhausting. But I mean, at the same time, we love it. But there's so much pressure once you finally figure out like the set way you're doing something. So now that our show has really become like about religious trauma and a lot of our guests that we have on have these amazing stories and we're like bringing shit to the light to light that has never been talked about or maybe never been talked about. But then really underneath the surface of it all. Yeah. Me and Zach are here. We have like such a much better relationship. And so whenever we do our solo podcast, we used to call it just shooting the shit. And so you might be the very first guest ever who's just shooting the shit yet. In this segment of it, more color podcast, we're going to be doing just that! And our first sponsor of the day, shooting the shit. Yeah. You will refer to me as J-dog while we shoot the shit. No, no. Another like let's go back to. Let's talk about something serious. No. Well, yeah. Well, like so things that this is my religious trauma. It was things like I don't even want to say that because it's not things that make you go, huh? Like that's my trauma, you know? So it's we're at a summer camp and they did this thing where it was like, you're going to go for a hike and you're going to, you know, kids were spaced out. So it's like a loan. And then there were posts, you know, and it would say like a verse, right? Like walk with God, go to the next one. I am the way, the truth and light. Cool. You just keep going, you know, and you're alone. And then there was this point where it come to forks and you would see a counselor and you would let God guide you to which one I'm like, hell yeah, brother, I'm all in. I feel that guy. And I go over to him and he's like, Hey man, choose a girl. Right. There were no girls for the boys. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. Different paths. Yeah. And uh, uh, I pick it, but he's like, Hey man, like how you doing? I'm like, fucking living bro. You know, just like I'm good bro. And he's like, cool. Um, so I have a word for him for you. It's from, forgive me, I don't remember the Bible verse, but it says something like, you know, don't touch your member, you know, stop masturbating. And I was like, that's me. And we go up and then you, there were pews and there's a cross and there was the pastors and you pray and you're like, Oh, okay, cool, cool. And then we get back and they tell you when you're up at the cross, they're like, Hey, this is personal. This is for you. Don't tell anybody. And I was like, Oh, cool. Yeah. Why would I tell anyone? I'm a chronic masturbate. And they didn't realize how tight that group was from the Healdsburg church. So we all got together and we were like, bro, like word from the Lord. Fucking sick, bro. What'd he tell you? And this kid, Scott went first and he's like, all right, I told him to stop masturbating. And I'm all the fuck. And then, and then I, we're all kind of looking at each other like, and Ted goes, they told me to stop. And I go, they told me to stop. I was like, yeah, dude. Like, yeah. And when I told my dad this, he kind of laughed. He's like, yeah, dude. I was like, Oh shit. And that's the point. Like my dad was like, Hey man, we're just trying to do our best, you know, like to keep you guys like, you know, I don't know. And it's like, yeah. Um, but that was one of those moments where I was like, what the fuck? Like a rigged, a rigged word of the Lord. That's what we call periodical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, that was one and another one was we were hanging out. It was like the tight group. It was like Ryan, Ted, Luke and me, you know, we were just hanging out at his house and his dad asked us, he's like, yo, um, what do you guys think about, um, like what are you going to do with your lives? And in my head, well, I gave him the most honest answer and I said, I'm gonna let Jesus lead. Like, what do you mean bro? Like, what do you mean bro? I just like, like, why are you challenging my faith right now? Yeah. Yeah. Literally like Jesus. Like I was all do whatever God wants, you know? Cause in my head I thought that that man had all of that because he followed Jesus. And when I said that to him, he kind of went, yeah, but what are you going to do? And I went, Oh, it's capitalism. You know what I mean? Like I just was like, Oh shit. At that age, how old were you? 16, 17. Were you actually thinking that way? Like what do you mean? Capitalistically? Like were you thinking like these bigger concepts? Like that, like my faith could change the world? Kind of like, wow, there's a system behind all of this that's functioning. Oh dude, absolutely. Because up to that point my dad had showed me the clash in punk rock and they're all about, you know, fuck fascist capitalism and blah, blah, blah. So I, that was already moving in my head. Oingo Boingo sings about it. You know, I already kind of, I, and seeing, I worked with my dad and he was his own business. Uh, he was his own boss and I worked for him. I could see how you had to work in the game. You know, I, he taught me, so that's, he actually taught me so that now I know how to deal with clients because he would go in and show him, I could do this, this, this, and this. Oh, you don't like it. Let's change it. You know how he talked to the client that wanted something from him. So that's how I do it with tattooing. Yeah. And you just do it, I guess with the respect like as to unto the Lord, you know, you just treat them with respect, you know, and it's like, okay, cool. But at that moment in, yeah, at that moment, it clicked a little more where I was like, Oh man, like I gotta get a fucking job. Like, you know, I thought I was gonna like, I don't know, like screech on the beach or something. I think that's part of it though. Part of whatever this could identify as religious trauma because I feel like I've, I've had the toughest time grasping just capitalism in general because we were raised to be like, Jesus, we'll figure it out for you. And if you don't figure it out, just go on some missionary trips and just be a good Jesus person. The capitalism was never really like, how are you going to make money, Zach? I'm still trying to figure that shit out. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of, when that was laid on my lap, things kind of started changing in my brain as far, not like, I didn't like immediately like denounce my faith or anything and I wouldn't even say I have, I just was like, I had to start thinking differently. Yeah. And it kind of broke my heart a little bit. If I'm being honest, you know what I mean? Innocence lost hurts, you know? And I just was like, oh, I just feel like there's such a, cause we were like, our parents really were best friends growing up. They like split off and then they come back together. We were in the same house. Your dad was a pastor for a while, much more of like the home fellowship, right? Like tighten it. Yeah. Yeah. And then trying to start a church. And our dad was like, you know, trying to, I don't know, do the Calvary Chapel thing or what have you. And his dad was part of the pastors that left our dad's church. Cause there was about three pastors that were originally just members of my dad's church. Right. And then you all branched off to, yeah, that's what I remember. But my memory of your family and to this day, right, when I think about parents in the church and being a pastor's kid and everything was your family was the realist. Oh, cool. Like a realist family. Just the concepts of life. Cause your dad always did have a hardcore job. He was always like working super early hours to late hours of the night. It was like normal work. Whereas like in our family, it was like the church, top to bottom church. That's how you make money. And it was like, as I remember being like 10 years old, 11 years old being like, so wait, these people put money into that box and that box pays our dad. Yeah. I see how he's getting paid. So if people leave the church, then we're not going to have as much money as a family. Oh sure. So when capitalism hit me at the age of fucking like in high school, like 17 years old and like learning about it in high school, I didn't make the connection to capitalism until I was like smoking weed secretly out of the house. And my best friend at the time was like, don't you get it, man? We're all slaves. Don't you get it? You're a cog. You're just part. He was like in the matrix. I have knowledge. He's like, bro, don't you see? You know what's funny? You know, what's funny is that same friend that did that to you tried to do it to me brother. Yeah. And uh, I smoked some weed with him and he called me up and he's like, so how are you feeling bro? And I was like, normal man. It didn't open my eye, bro. Like I was like, my pupils dilated. Did you really? I did. I went to the beach. I went to the beach and smoked a doobie. You know, maybe I do remember that. I don't know. Do you let you know? Did he tell you? Well, I, I'm just thinking as far back as that goes, that might've been around the time that I first tried it and like had a panic attack, came home, told dad, then he took those friends away and I had to sneak out of the house to ever see them. Oh, gotcha. Um, see, I didn't have a panic attack. Yeah. I had a straight up panic attack. Well, just to go into a whole nother story, I, I did it once and then I was like, okay, I get it. I, my pupils dilated. I was at the beach. I could hear clear, but I was like so high that I was able to like push my body down to the ground and then come back and it felt like it could hit my body and then go back. And then I kept doing this and then I wake up to see him just like going, and I laughed for three hours. And then we ate like some honey buns or something. And then I was like, this is the nectar of the gods. It was all over my face. And then the dumb thing was, well, we were there for like seven hours. And then I, so I drove home. Sorry kids. I don't know. Sorry. But I drove home, but it was like the chillest driver. But yeah, don't do that kids. And then, um, recently me and my wife have started to partake in the devil's lettuce and, but we got the gummies, you know, five milligrams. And then because we bought them, they gave us this like can of pre-rolls. Right. And I was like, when in Rome? And I was getting face melted on those five milligrams, right? Five milligrams. Oh, I was like, because you have to understand I'm 37 years old. I hadn't smoked since I was 19. So I have a virgin brain. I consider it, I consider that first time not even trying. So me and my wife are like, So wait, you smoked at 17 and then you never smoked again. 19. You never smoked again until we never touched him again. Till four weeks ago, brother. Wow. Me and my wife. So we're doing the gummies and like weeks, four weeks ago. Oh, I'm new. I'm new to it. So, um, we, we, uh, we're doing the gummies and we're like, Oh dude. And I, my California accent comes out hard. I'm like, dude, it's so embarrassing. But we're doing that. And my wife, famous last words, dude, she's like sitting there and she just goes, I don't think it, I don't think it works on me. I don't think it works on me. She turns and looks at the TV like this and then she looks at our cat and goes, and I knew she was stoned and she goes, the cat's face has a face on it. And I laughed for three hours, three hours straight. Cause that is the funniest fucking thing I've ever heard. It's also very logical. Yes. And then I looked at his face and his face was like, yeah. And then, so now, so we're doing the gummies getting blitzed off those, but I'm like, when in Rome, I'm going to smoke these joints. I, I went into this thing. I don't know shit. I haven't smoked since I was 19. I don't know shit. I'm smoking them like cigarettes. Yeah. And I'm like, I get so ripped that I thought my feet were going into the ground. I was like, and then what happened though, here's the downfall. Everybody is I was smoking so much. I was forgetting to take my anxiety med. That is a med. You cannot stop. You don't stop day five of this. I'm, I'm developing acute bronchitis. I take this huge rip and I cough so hard. I throw up and that was it. That was it. Panic ensued, adrenaline shot. I thought I was having a heart attack that was gone. Well even just puking, you're in a rushing blood. Yeah. I was like, Oh, fuck, I'm dying. Yeah. I'm dying. And that was my first panic attack. And so I have not touched weed for two weeks. Poor guy. No, you're not alone. I called 911. No, I called 911. And I said, freaking out, man. And they're like, what's going on? And I'm like, I smoked so much weed. And then I, I fucking, I don't need an ambulance, but I need a firefighter to come over here and check my blood pressure. Cause I think I'm gonna have a stroke and they're like, dude, they don't do that. They did it. Really? Cause I live right behind the fire. And this guy comes up, I go outside, he walks up and he's like, Hey buddy, what's up? And I'm like, I'm freaking out, man. And he's like, he goes, I was 16 months. It's cool. And he's like, come over here, checks me out. And he's like, he goes, you're freaking out real hard. I go, yeah, bro. And he's like, he goes, well, there's someone who's having a panic attack. Your heart rate is 86 in your head, brother. And I'm like, but when my blood pressure, he's like, totally normal. And I was like, I want to get off this ride. He's like, not going to happen. And I was like, and then I was like, Oh shit. So I started taking my anti-anxiety med. And I had the symptoms after the reverb of a panic attack for three days. I missed two days of work. Cause I was just like, Oh dude, the adrenaline was circulating through my body. I thought there was a bear in my house. So I was like, yeah. I was like, this is how cavemen feel. I was like, blood, blood, no like, Oh, fire hurt. And so I laid in bed just freaking out. And I was like, this is how Elvis died. I'm going to swallow my tongue. I'm going to fucking die. And then I start having headaches like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I'm like, Heather, I have a brain tumor. And she's like, Oh my God, you're never smoking weed again. You're a fucking bitch. Stop crying about it. And I was like, I was like, okay, but why is my head hitting? And she goes, because I, uh, I was like, I did this to myself. I ingested this. All I was doing was drinking water and eating broccoli for three days. That's all I did. Why broccoli? Cause it was green. It was healthy. I'm not going to put cheeseburger in my body. It is a temple. You fuckers. Fuck you, Zach. And I fucking, I fucking, I, my head's hurting and she goes, Hey, what was the last time you had a cup of coffee? I go three days. She goes, you're going through caffeine withdrawals. Have a cup of coffee. And I didn't my brain back. Oh dude. I was like, if you're wondering if cannabis is a gateway drug, it is. Oh, first thing I did after I smoked the first rip of my life, I went, I want to do heroin. Yeah. Where can I get some crack? Where can I get some hard H? Black tar heroin. Oil burner or a needle leading by. Yeah. I know a nurse. He can get me stuff. Yeah. Um, no, I, yeah. So that was my story. Yeah. I, so I, I've had the joy and then I had the, the risk to the reward, you know, and I was like, it's just crazy. It's so recent too. Oh dude. Like I'm probably still high. You just started smoking again a month ago. Dude. When I, uh, I was trying to stop drinking as much during the pandemic or like 2021. And so I started smoking weed, which we'd used to ruin me. We used to like end my life for like six months at a time because I would have so much panic kind of similar to what you were saying. But then I just couldn't come out of it. Um, but then once I just let myself have enough panic attacks, I started to realize they go away. Yeah. Especially if you get him from weed. Well then I had to reach out to my tattoo buddies and he's like, he's like a weed wizard. Like this dude is like posting videos of him. Like, of course. Yeah. So I'm all, bro, what the fuck? And he goes, tell me what's on the box. Tell me what it is. And I said, it says like sativa. And he goes, there's your fucking problem, dude. Indica in the couch. Like fuck, don't ever smoke that shit again. And I was like, Oh, cause I'm already up here. I need to be down. Yeah. So if you give me something that makes, like I couldn't even imagine if I did cocaine, like I would like blood would come out of my ears, dude. I am amped. So you'd probably just be silent. Well I like, I re I always said, I was like, you're telling me there's a drug that can keep me awake and also make every idea I have sound good. Yeah, I want it. The way that people do cocaine, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. My idea. Pure narcissists. Yeah. But uh, the weed thing was super awesome. I'm not, it was my mistake. You know, mother Gaia did not do anything to me. It was my mistake. I didn't read the label. Those pre-rolls, I was getting ripped on five pre-rolls. Guess how much and how many milligrams in each one? 20, 25% 480 milligrams per pre-roll per each joint. 480 milligrams. I was getting ripped. Wow. That's a pretty strong, I would think. Right. I think it's about right. It's a half gram joint. Yeah. They were like, yeah, half gram. Yeah. It's fine for somebody that hasn't smoked ever. Besides the one time you did as a kid, how many were you smoking? I would smoke one a night. Okay. Well that's it. No, no, but that's the thing though. But I wasn't giving myself to like, it was staying in my, I kept stacking it and then because I coughed, I freaked out. So then you would do, you would do a five milligram, you do a five milligram gummy. Yeah. And then your wife would go to bed or whatever and then you'd smoke a joint after or would you just like later in the night smoke a joint or would she smoke it with you? So hot. Watching her smoke it so hot. She holds it like a French lady. Like the way she smoked. I feel it makes me feel like a world war two. Oh dude. Yeah. The way she, my wife smokes and she has all the tattoos on her face and shit. I'm like, Oh fuck. And she'll like do the long blow like in a rap video. I love it so much. I'm just kind of, I'm curious though, how you, your entire life you never brought it back. Yeah. So why now? Oh, well, the reason I didn't bring it back. Okay. So the reason I didn't bring it back is I had like a very strong moral compass like or, or I just, I did things in absolutes and we know only Siths deal in absolutes. So I was very like, funny story about that too. My best friend, he was at a harvest festival. Remember those? Cause we can't say Halloween. He was at a harvest festival at his church and someone was dressed as a, um, a Jedi. No, a Jedi. And they were like, Oh, those movies are evil. They're about magic and yada, yada, yada. They're absolutely blah, blah, blah. And him as a teenager, he went only a Sith deals in absolutes. So like he said that to this church lady, bro. Oh, boom. What's up? Yeah. She has no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no. Another church lady thing. That was great. We should, you know, there should be, you know how there's like Karen's, there should be a whole thing of church ladies like church. Well, not church Karen's, but like church ladies, like things that church ladies say. One of them to me, they said, they're like, they're all Jordan, Dolby. You tell me, you tell me right now, what are you going to do when you meet the girl of your dreams? You have to get all those tattoos. And I was all, wouldn't the lady of my dreams like my tattoos and maybe also have tattoos. And you could hear the sound of when you call a fax machine on a phone. Like, Oh dude, dude, you can see it going. Yeah. And she just went like walked away, you know? And I just, and all of us kind of looked at each other like, what the fuck? Like, yeah, it just, you don't understand what some people are going through. Like what's how some people have like limited their brain prefrontal cortex damage. Oh dude. Well, and also just like an injury. Well, just also too, like my wife, she has crazy hair. Like I could come home tonight and my wife could shave her head. I don't know. You know, she's, I, whatever. I love her. And she, she was working at Starbucks and one of her coworkers came up to me and was like, it's so great that you let Heather do all that. And I went, I went, I don't let her do anything. She does it. I don't, what are you talking about? I'm lucky that she lets me do it. And she was like, Oh, my husband only lets my, this is as short as I can have my hair. And I went, you're dead already. I wanted to, I want to say that to her face. I was like, lady, you're dead. Oh, you're in the coffin. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, yeah. Oh God, it was so hot to watch Heather smoke. Let's go back to that. No, I'm just kidding. I a hundred percent agree. I, uh, me and my wife smoke all the time together and I am as hard as Boinga Boinga. She takes a rip. It's over for me. Babe, do that again. Again and again. And again, and again. And she's like sick. And then she passes out. I'm like, wake up, wake up. So you bring cannabis back. You have a panic attack. Call the fire department. They come over your house. This is very recent. Like a week ago. This is the most Jordan Dolby. And then the next day I went to the ER. Really? Why? Cause I was panicking from the adrenaline. I couldn't calm down. And I was like doing the whole, like, no, it's 300. So then are you, are you still doing the gummies? Are you taking a break? I have not had any. How could you? Yeah, I'm gun shy. Yeah, I'm gun shy. So it would be, I'm literally probably the next time I do it, it'll be a half coming after 2.5. Yeah. Oh yeah. We've set up the guest room. Yeah. Well I, Hey, I'd feel more safe doing it with you. Cause you're a nurse. You know what I mean? I'd be like, dude, tell me I'm alive. No ask Zach. I am not the person to be, to come in to intro into weed. That's what got me kicked the fuck out. Nate, Nate, Nate will think you have his limits. Can I ask you something about it? Like did you just go too hard on it? On what? Cannabis? Yeah. Like did you just smoke so hard that you were like, wow Jesus isn't real. Like how much weed did you smoke? No. So the same friend you're talking about who as I've like him and I have, I've been trying to reconnect with him, which I would love to have him on the podcast sometime. So like in our family growing up, cannabis was always presented to us as being like the drug. It was, it was the worst drug on the planet. Like in comparison to meth. So in our family, and it was like the stories that we were told of our dad smoking weed in the past were like always horrific stories the way it was presented. And if you ever do, you know, psilocybin or mushrooms, then you're going to see dead bodies. You're going to see floating heads. You're going to meet the devil himself. A big one was he would state that like, if you smoke weed, you're going to be high for 10 years. That's what he told me. That's what ruined me when we got high is I got in a panic attack and I was like, this is 10 years ago. I literally, when I was having my panic attack, I had to Google like, can you be perma spun on weed? Cause I was like, I was like, you don't understand. I'm off my anxiety meds. I fucked my brain off. The most classic thing to do is to smoke cannabis for the first time, quit all your meds and hope for the best. I tried. And guess what? It didn't work. It worked for the first day. Like a charm. The second day was a little shaky. The third day I called the fire department. It sucks because those first days were awesome as fuck, dude. Dude, I, my wife, we got high and for some reason she's like, Hey, help me fix this drawer. And I was like, power tools and high. I'm going to lose a finger. Fuck dude. Yeah, let's do it. And she's like, can you reach back there and grab this thing to clip into the rails? You know? So it like slides in, you know, and I reach in and I keep reaching and I swear to God, you guys, I thought my arm was 12 feet long and I'm just sitting there going, and Heather looks at me and goes, what are you doing? I'm like, it's really deep. Can you feel what I'm feeling? And I go, my arm is 12 feet long and I keep pulling it. I'm all, dude, I was out of it, bro. Like I was fucking ripped. The answer to your question, like, cause I've talked a lot about it on the cast, just like connection to THC and cannabis and like it being connected to religious trauma. I've met a lot of people that suffer from like, if there's relationships to like radicalism in people's lives and maybe they didn't have the unconditional love that they wish they had from their mother and father. Right. Like, you know, addiction is like right there for you. So it's like if you didn't feel coddled in your youth and you can really do this drug and you'll feel great. And so I think that like cannabis not being a drug, being this plant, it was, it was the most perfect substance that the church hated, that it was presented as being super evil. Oh, I did it the first time I ever tried it. Right. It was a similar, it was like such like a crazy experience because you have to drive super far away from your home. You have to go out somewhere like the beach, right? Same thing. And I just immediately, I didn't even get high the first time. I was like a sophomore in high school. And like I remember the first hit I took a cop, my brains out immediately started to think I was going to die. Yeah. And I was having all these thoughts like, I'm sorry, God. I'm so sorry, God. I'm so sorry. I went like into this spiral of just apologizing to my dad and God back to back to back. Sure. Sure. Sorry, dad. Sorry God. So then we drive back home, we stop at a gas station and they're like, do you want anything man? I'm like, I'll take some Funyuns. Yeah. I didn't know that I was actually high. All I wanted so bad was Funyuns. Do you know what Funyuns are? The little Funyuns. He's been on planet earth. Best Funyuns ever had in my life. Get home. Do you know what chips are? I'm learning. The moment I walk in the house, dad's sitting there on the couch. He's like, where are you? And I went, I just smoked weed. Whoa. Yeah. First thing I said to him, cause I was having such bad panic. Oh yeah. Um, he was so proud of me for telling him the truth. Sure. He always said, you always tell me the truth. Sure. You know about anything you do. And we'll get through it. Sure. Immediately. The moment I told him that crippling life ending anxiety that I was having ended like that. Oh sure. Just by telling him. Sure. At that young age, I thought to myself, like there's something, something going on here. Sure. Cause my friends were like super chill and having a great night and I'm like panicking. And the moment I tell my dad, so I didn't really like make the connection that there was probably something there that was really weird. Yeah. Anyways, he said I could never see those friends again, which, you know, those are like my best friends at the time. So I also thought that was really fucking weird that like, I didn't know he was gonna take my friends away. Oh shit. So then I started to build this sort of connection to like the plant and like the church hating it. And I was like, they're right. It makes you go crazy. Anxiety. And then, so it was like pulling my friends away, starting to make some connections when I couldn't see them where it was like I had to start sneaking out of the house to hang out with them. Sure. And so then very quickly after that experience, I was like, you know, I don't know if this is the weed that was causing the anxiety. Oh sure. Like six months go by and then they're all smoking it. And I was like, I got to figure this out. So then I tried like 10 different times. I tried smoking weed and could not get high. Oh, weird. We're talking bong rips, blunts, joints, all sneaking out of the house, going down the street to my friend's house, ripping it with him and being like, I can not get high. It can not get high. Broken brain is what we call it. Wow. So I was like, I don't know what it was. I don't know. My relationship to cannabis has been very interesting. Yeah. The moment I got high for the very first time was down the street from our parents' house during college night. Okay. We were at the park. We're having my friend's sister's bong. It's like, it was like a 10 foot bong. He like pulls it out of his ass. I'll never forget. He pulls out of his trunk and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, why are we, he's like, come on, let's go to the park. Pack that thing. I get really high and all the lights are coming in. They're talking to me about the universe and sing all this shit. And I'm just like, yes, this makes so much sense. Um, the opposite of anxiety hit. Yeah. I had really bad insomnia at that point in my life. Oh, okay. Given we've talked about this so much on the cast. This was like back when I was like trying to think outside of the Christian box. I'd already told my parents it wasn't a Christian anymore. They were treating me very bizarrely at the house. Cause I claimed to not be a Christian and wanted to find my own path that night. I smoked weed or I slept for like nine hours. Had like the best sleep of my life. I woke up that next morning and I was like, cause stayed at my friend's house. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to start using this plan for sleep. Sure. That's why I started smoking to help you with sleep. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the first night I got super high and I got in my bed and I was like, it's like my bed's telling me it loves me. It was unbelievable. And then I got kind of, I got kind of fucked up because I didn't, I wasn't fully aware of this sort of addictive mentality that I had built within me. Like we have family members that have dealt with alcoholism and that smokers, 30, 40 year smokers of nicotine on both sides of the family, drinkers, you name it. Yeah. And so there's, sure. There's like that genetic component, but like if you really want to get your kid hooked on something that's just a natural plant, tell them it's of the devil. Tell them they're going to lose their mind. And the moment they have actual, like it's like sort of like a medicinal quality to your mental health that became, it was like my whole life became about like, not only am I against the church, but I'm going to like push this weed thing because they were so loud about like hating cannabis. Well, it also was my best friend were like, you know, it makes you food tastes better. It makes you like think about shit that's outside of the box or whatever you wanted to, like everything about that image became like the image that I wanted to be because it was the rebellious thing to be. Yeah. But then there was also like all of this sort of like all of my anxiety that I was having from lack of love from the folks, all of it went away when I'd smoke and I got kicked out. Weed was like, I was, was your new parent. That was it. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. What were you going to say? So anyway, go ahead. Now I was gonna say this also during the time when weed was like so illegal, illegal. So they were all on the side of like, you're, you're being a convict pretty much. Well, and that's the other thing that the parent, well the firefighter and also the ER nurse and the ER doctor said to me, they were like, you know what you're going through? A lot of people are going through, like because it's legal. You have Graham Graham who's, I got back pain and they take fucking 10 of them and they're like, I'm dying. So she goes, this, this has become, there's an upswing in a THC paranoia, you know, because of people just like myself being a fucking moron and not reading that there was 480 milligrams. That's happened to everyone I've ever known that smokes weed, eats weed, whatever you want to do. They always have a story where it's like, I overdid it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I was, I, it was so fun and like I did it and what was weird about it is it made me like think about like, like I felt like, Oh God, it sounds so hippie. Like like the earth was like giving you a hug. You know what I mean? Or like you felt like, I felt love. You know what I mean? I didn't feel, and I was joking about the whole like, I want to do math. Like the other thing that was weird that I, that I found interesting is like when I was high on weed, I felt more coherent than when you're drunk and that's legal. That, that was where I was like, what the fuck? Like I was like, what the fuck? Like I feel terrible and that I could like run over someone while drunk and not know, you know what I mean? Like I don't even feel anything about it. And like when I was high, I was like, no, no, no, I can like feel, I can see my son. Uh, we were playing video games like or whatever, you know, and he was high as shit. And no, I was like, you smoked that shit. Hold it, hold it, hold it out. Throat. Breathe throat. Breathe. Go in the closet and think clear it. Clear it. Clear it. Cough. Yeah. Sorry I have to do this, but I'm, I'm going, I got to pee too. We have a pee break. Pee break. Uh, marker. That was a really, we had, we had to do a quick little break there cause all three of us had to pee. We all, and we started this topic off talking about pee. You remember that? And also addiction. You're welcome. Yeah. Let's bring it back. Let's, this is, let's ask Jordan the question. Yeah. Okay. Um, so Jordan, you were saying it was at that camp that you, that thing happened. Why don't you go ahead and reset what you're saying? Yeah. No comment. I'll let the devil speak for me. It's just kidding. It's me. Mind you, he's leaving the mask with us. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's staying on the pot. It's going up on the light. Your light is now facing the table again. Oh shit. There you go. Fixed it. Oh, you look so good. Oh, nice. Hey, a little behind the scenes. That's brought to you by blue chew. Hey guys, one in three males. Yeah. Sleepy puppy. And it's Zach. Are you wanting the lights to be back on you? Yeah. Do you feel like they've gone dark? This brought to you by me undies. Um, I love how the joke is one in three males. One of us here uses blue chew. It's not me. Yeah. I don't need that. No, I would never sponsor anything that gets me hard. Speaking of sponsors, we've actually had a couple of sponsors get really close to signing us. They see a short and then they're like, Oh my God, we would love to sign with your guys's show. And then we're like, go check out the show first and they check out the show and they're like, we're not going to sign with you anymore. You'd be so surprised how many people will just be like, let's make a deal because of one short that we talked about. Like THC, sell our cocktail on your, on your show. And then they'll actually listen to an episode and be like, we want nothing to do with Palestine and the Congo and fuck America. Yeah. No, it's hard to market, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Where were we? We were talking about cannabis, cannabis. And then I want to tell a story. I want to tell stories. So I want to tell, I, I was kind of, I was the older kid. You guys were younger. Yeah. So I would try to talk you into doing things and stuff. At one time we lived, you guys lived at this house that had a Hill that would come down and then it went down into a ditch and then up onto your yard. You're talking about the old Pengrove still smells like shit house. I love that house was tight. A lot of good memories in the house. Like that backyard, everything. Yeah. The trampoline, just a lot of playing. Yeah. Broken wrists. So many children's being injured in that. Yeah. Yeah, dude. So I talked Nate and Zach into hitting this ramp with their roller blades and I remember Nate just bombing the Hill turning and hitting the ramp and going so high that I had enough time to turn and look down the alley and just go, that's where my new life is because I've killed Nathan Blauste. And cause you were like this in the air and I was like, that's a lot of time to be kicking your legs. And before you fall, you landed all right. You did all right. And then I was like, okay, so Nate did it. Zach, your turn buddy. You know, and you did the same thing, dude. You just took off and I was like, Oh, I've killed Zachary. Oh, he's dead. He's so dead. And, um, the, I didn't know how I was going to explain to your mom that I killed you guys. Yeah, dude. And another thing that I would see happen is Nate would do these freaky feats of strength. Um, I don't, maybe Zach, maybe you can back me up. He, one time we were playing basketball at Ryan's house and you know, Nate, you were the littler kid. So we were like playing and I don't, maybe something like rage filled you or something. And the, the basketball kept going cause they had the basketball hoop in front of their yard and their yard had a big giant Bush. Like it wasn't a yard. It was like a yard that you don't maintain, you know, it's just like for, you know, and the ball kept going in and you'd have to climb in and get it as bullshit. And the ball went past me and I was like, Oh, here we go back in the Bush. And Nate's like, not today motherfucker. And you'd launched off the curb, spun in the air and caught it. And I swear I saw Michael Jordan like, like behind you dude. And I was like, dude, you're 10 feet in the air. Like I, I can, when I think about you, I think about that moment. You did it again. What was that game you would play where someone would throw the football and there was a group of people? Oh, seven flags up or six flags up. Seven fly up or whatever. XYZ PDQ. Anyway, Nate, it was going to go over the fence at the house in Petaluma and you jumped and just caught it with one hand, like Odell Beckham dude, like before he was even caught it with one hand. And I just remember you being so stretched and I was like, how's he going to land and you landed on your feet. And I remember when you were playing baseball, they called you the cat, you know, cause you were like, and I was like, for real dude. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, what the fuck? You know, that was so crazy. And the other thing that I remember about Zach, me and my mom had this thing where we would count how many times Zach would do it. Oh, it's so funny. Zach would come into the kitchen and like, it's ready. It's like time for dinner. You know, come on. Zach would come in and he'd be like, he'd be like, you would look at the food and it would be, it would be a, it would be a thing of spaghetti, a thing of sauce, meatballs and garlic bread. And you'd go, what are we having? And me and my mom would look at each other and go, that's one. And then whatever else dinner was fried chicken or whatever. What is this? What are we having? Holy shit, Zach. What do you think? What does it look like? Oh my God. I was just so picky. Yeah. Yeah. I remember you like mashed potatoes. These memories that you're having. The reason why I was jumping so high was I was just trying to be cool in front of the older guys. I broke my body to be cool. So you brought up that skate ramp. Do you remember us doing the Superman though? Cause we, I remember when we first hit it, that, that memory you're talking when we hit it really high. And then I remember being like, I need to get Jordan to laugh. I'm just going to launch and land on my stomach. Oh yes. Memory unlocked. Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah dude. Another thing of just trying to be cool. Yeah. And that was also like the startup of jackass where it was funny to hurt yourself. Yeah. We were, yeah. The 90s, 99, 2000 right there, dude. It was like it was going off. Yeah. Where it was like, and we would film it, you know, we'd film ourselves to find those videos. The other day, it's like what amount of footage have we lost? Oh dude. And then, cause you had that cool camera with the, it had the screen and you could like, Oh dude, I still have one of those. It's the exact same one. Amazing. Oh, of course it doesn't. But, uh, yeah, we would film little movies and stuff. I remember we were filming, we started messing around with stop go animation and we would like, you know, our shit was very like rudimentary and stuff. And then I remember like, it was Natalie's turn to like use the camera and she went off for a while. We played video games. She's like, Hey guys, check this out. Check out what I made. And like her video, like the guy pulls up, gets out of his car, goes, looks at his house. I was like, a tear was coming in my eye. I was like, is this a Pixar movie? I was like, Oh, Natalie's special. I'm stupid. And she makes a scene where he goes and gets water and waters this things. And she made a flower girl. I was like, Natalie, what the fuck? Like what? We're kids. Like dude, unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very amazing. Well, no, just very artistically talented. You know, I was like, that's different. You know what I mean? I was like, Oh, that's weird. We're not, what are we doing? Yeah. And uh, skate ramps, stop motion Lego movies. Yeah. That was like our life. Yeah. We just did that all the time. Nine years old, 10 years old, 10 years old. That was just every day. Yeah. Another time, Nate, you were feeling particularly, uh, frisky and it was at church at the Kenilworth junior high, which isn't there anymore. It's a target, which is hilarious. But we, I was hanging out with you. We were like playing and laughing and this, uh, these two girls were making like a house out of cards and you were just like, Oh dude, that's tight. Flick and just blew it up. Oh dude. And they turned and jumped and like, I just grabbed you and I was all run. Took off after you. Oh dude. I was like, that was the fucking thing I've ever seen. It worked because I was just trying to make you laugh. Oh dude, it worked. But it was the way you flicked it and the way every card went. Fuck you. These girls were like, Oh dude. Amazing. Amazing dude. What a little dick you were. I wasn't though. Not too bad. No, I wasn't. I just did. The thing was I was just like Jordan. I had so much sentimental feelings for a lot of like over the top sentimental feelings about things I didn't understand. Sure. But the time that I wouldn't have any emotional feelings was when I was around older guys and I just wanted to be with the older guys. I just wanted to be cool with the older guys, man. Hey, we're losers. So you didn't miss it. It's true. We were dorks. Yeah. And then like in, and I'm trying to like exclude you Zach or anything. It's just that you were a little, a little younger. Zach was busy putting his head in the carpet. No, that was after four or five. Oh wait. Yeah. Would you get a little rug burn on your forehead? How can you make fun of you? You're the one that kissed a wood stove, bro. Burn your fucking lips off. Every time I say anything, there's plenty to say about me. Oh yeah. It is. I also never, shut up dude. Hey, this is more ketamine or whatever the fuck dude. Like, shut up. This wasn't ketamine. Well, you're, I only do plant medicine next week. I'm all organic. I'm organic. Yeah. We know recently you and the fire department had to clean up. I had to get straight. I was scared straight. I literally was like, oh dude, Nancy Reagan's going to be so mad at me. I took the dare pledge, dude. Jordan. Do you remember when, uh, I was like obsessed with Lord of the rings. My parents had bought me like the three book trilogy. Yeah. I saw your shirt. Are we going to talk Lord of the rings right now? But the memory that I have, because I know that you have endless memories of us and things that we can't remember. Sure. But, uh, and I know we talked about this on the phone, but I'll never forget. This is a huge connection to my childhood was being absolutely obsessed with Lord of the rings, reading all of the books. Yeah. And then the movies came out or the first movie came out and me and your mom and you, and I don't know if your brother went, I think all of us went. Zach didn't go. No, and I don't think Daniel went and Ryan was with us. Natalie, Becky. Now see, I have memory. Help me jog my memory of this. Before we went, we served at a food shelter. No, no, no. It wasn't a food shelter. It was a, a salvation army where they were giving out Christmas gifts, but we ran carnival games. Does this sound familiar to you? No, but I mean, we did this every Christmas. You would go and yeah, you'd like run a line and like you and everyone won. They weren't like, you know, actual scams at carnivals, you know, and you would give the kids the toy. I have no memory of that. Okay. But you remember going to the movies. See, I remember with you. Well, see, that's the thing is I remember the treat for doing the work was going to Lord of the rings and I remember Zach and Nathan or Zach and Daniel not being able to go because like, they're like, it's PG 13, you know, but we also got to see it because everyone thought it was an allegory. And Tolkien, it's not, it's not, bro. Do you know why he made the books? He went to a professor and he said, Hey, Hey, Hey, what, what's our mythos of England? And the guy's like, what the fuck are you talking about? He goes, the Greeks have Zeus and the Nords have Thor. Where's our talking tree? Where is it? And he goes, Oh, Hey, it was all burned by the French crusaders. If you didn't, if you didn't burn your shit, you died. You know, so, so Christianity took over and he went, fuck that. And he wrote Lord of the rings is the mythos for England. That's what it actually is. I have no idea. Yeah, that's it. So it's very punk rock. He was like, fuck that shit. So he made, it's the story of man coming to from, from England, middle earth is England to the east. There's a shadow, a whisper, it's Hitler. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's an allegory for, for the German Nazis. It's dude, I stop. The point that I was going to make is it was a midnight showing, right? I don't know. Yeah, I thought it was no fuck. No, it was like a three o'clock show. No, you guys were, you were pretty young. We would never go at midnight. Maybe that's more memory cause I was scared mid day. Oh no, we stayed up all night cause we were terrified. Yeah. I did not sleep for one day. I did not sleep for one day after seeing Lord of the Rings. I just remember reading all those books, loving them, obsessing over the maps. I'd like open up the map and have it on my bed and then I'd read the book at the same time. So I would know if you want to, we're sitting in the theater and I remember the first time that orc hit the screen. I can't remember if it was like crawling out of the ground, but my life fucking changed. I'd never felt more scared in my entire life. I was like, demons are real. Demons are very real. It was also a step up in like graphics for movies. We won all the Academy awards for it. Well, not only graphics, but makeup. That's why it was terrible. Cause it was real. You've never seen anything like it. You've never seen a big giant six foot Samoan man in death makeup. That fool is scary. Oh, it was terrifying. And I remember that we had a bunk bed. Oh, I remember. So I was with you guys and I was scared shitless. And do you want to talk about it? And I was like, I'm done with this. I put the books away. It was really sad because I packed the books up and I was like, I'll see you in the future. I'm just a boy, not a man. I was like, Zach's up on this bunk and I was like, Zach, come down and sleep with me. And they were like, I don't want to. And I was like, get in my bed and hold me. Yeah. No, I, uh, my mom scared me. You see, I thought the movie, when I saw that scene I was a little older and it was scary. Don't. So the scene you're talking about is when the orc comes out of that like condom in the mud. And the first thing he does is kill the guy that helps him out, chokes him out and kills him. And I was like, Oh dude, that's fucking gnarly. And my mom was like, yeah. Cause the very first thing he did when he was born was murder. And I'm getting goosebumps. Dude. I was like, Oh fuck, that's terrifying. Like they were born to kill. That's just pure murder. And I, I, I, that's what kept me up at night. That's something could be created to just murder, pure hate, pure hate, pure hatred. And I just was like, that can't exist. That can't be real. Please don't make that rail, you know, and then closing your eyes. I didn't even have the concept. I couldn't even conceptualize it that way. I was just like, please, but why the makeup? Oh dude. Oh well. And then the hilarious thing that happened is after the movie ends and you see them look into the distance towards Mount doom and it goes black and it says directed by Peter Jackson, some lady goes, well, do they make it or not? Like I went, cause those movies were so crazy. You saw him six times or whatever, you know, like especially back then. Yeah. Yes. I guess there was nothing else to fucking do. No streaming. No. Yeah. So we went back and yeah. Hey kids, you used to go to the movie. Let me tell you, you used to get your popcorn. And then it would take like a year and a half for it to come out on DVD. And the Lord of the Rings was so popular that I re I watched a pirated company from Japan and the laughs were delayed. We all watched it. We all watched it. And it was like blurry subtitles from China. Yeah. But that was like the first ever of watching streamed videos recorded. And they were always like, Brian, how did you do it? And he'd be like, I can't tell you how. Why are you such a hacker? Yeah. He was like, I'll never forget being in Ryan's room and being like, Ryan, what are you doing? And he was like, there was like family group happening forever. And he was by himself like eating food. And there was a pirated version of count of Monte Cristo playing. Yeah. Right. And I was, and it was like subtitles. And I was like, Oh, he was like, Oh yeah. How do you have it? And he was like, don't ask. Don't ask. Yeah. Can I tell you that? Yeah. It's on a need to know basis. No, Ryan. Ryan was wild, dude. He, he was a wild friend. I would stay the night at his house and get strep throat all the time. No, he had this thing. I remember one time, like he's like, yeah, come on. And close the door. And I closed the door and every inch across the door there were wads of gum. He was collecting them all the way down to the floor. He was halfway through. I know. I just remember being like, what the fuck is that? And he's like, it's my gum wall, dude. It's all good, bro. He also used to have, uh, his hair gel was just glue glue. Yeah. Yeah. He would get those spikes. Yeah. You talk to him at all. Uh, no, no. I wonder how he'd feel. I was talking about him. I hope he's doing well. I, the, uh, last time I saw him was in person. He came up for like a wine tasting thing and we had a blast. It was awesome. Yeah. He was doing great. Yeah. Uh, yeah. That's the last I know. I don't, he's not active on social media. So it's hard to like find those people that are just like, fuck this thing. You know? It's like, but I did spend time with him. Uh, when I was like 21, I was like, I visited my grandma, who lives down south and at the time had moved to, uh, like San Diego Marietta area. And I was like, Hey, I'm already down here. Let's hang out, bro. And, uh, like the lamest 21 year olds, dude, like we slept all day. We went to the movies at night, drank Shirley temples. Like, dude, we're so fucking lame. And, but it was fun. It was fun. Like we would, because it was so hot we slept during the day and at night we'd just ride bikes from Marietta like all night. And then, and then we would, yeah, dude, it's just like we, you know, and then when the sun came up, we'd go to sleep. We did that for like four days and just, it's a really cool memory that I have of like this weird experience, you know? And, and we watched a clerks too had come out and we probably watched that seven times cause it was air conditioned. You know what I mean? But we just fucking laughed so hard at that movie, dude. Yes. Oh, good. Like one of the best comedies of all time. So funny. Yeah, dude. Their, their house was such a funny house. It was awesome. It was chaotic. Yeah. I loved it. It was chaos. Which if you're, if you're wondering, Zach, do you think we should probably beep out some of these names? That's on you, man. You're the edit the long form or I'm leaving them in. Okay. Okay. Um, no, I'll probably be, I don't think we're, I don't think we're saying anything about it with these people and we're not, we just normally beep out names. If you're curious of these people are, these are people that also had home fellowships at their house. Yeah. I see you'd be like two, like a bunch of families would go over to this family's house and all the kids would be in the back doing being rambunctious or rambunctious, watching princess bride at the Dolby's house. Then you get the blossom. Those are like, and then like we're all homeschooled. Yeah. Right. None of us were in public school. No. And so then we might be go over to some person's house for science day. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, that was like the most we learned all year. Take apart a frog and think we're learning something. Yeah. Those are some of the most rememberable days. Oh dude. I remember this. All the families getting together for science day. The worm, the starfish. And remember it looked like Taco Bell meat and we got, couldn't get over it. Like I didn't get Taco Bell for years, bro. I was like, that's what's inside those motherfuckers. Ew dude. That's where they get that meat. Yeah. Yeah dude. And then like fucking Ryan or Daniel would be like, just fucking snort and fun dip and shit. Like Daniel. Daniel was a wild kid. One time I stayed the night at their house. Fuck dude. Daniel had fallen asleep without his blankets on and he slept his underwear cause he's a fucking G woke up freezing. So he goes to the thermostat, turns it to 92. We all wake up at like five in the morning screaming and he's laying on his bed like a fucking Sultan. Just like nips out. Just fucking, and his dad put a lock on the thermostat after that. We were sweating. I dude, I've never thought I was good. I've like, Oh dude, this is how camels feel right before they die. We all drinking water. Dude. It was gnarly dude. But just to be like, Oh, I'm cold. Turn it up to 90. Hey, why do they go up to 90? I would love to have them on the gas. Oh, Daniel's doing good too. Oh yeah. He's always doing the same kid. We're on Halloween. He had so much Halloween candy. Threw up in the fucking here. All we all just stayed the night at each other's houses. Yeah. And so he's threw up in the heating vent. Oh yeah. Dude. But he would throw up in the heater vent and then he would keep shoving candy down and stuff and then throw up again in the heater vent. Hey Roman, Roman. That's awesome. Oh dude. He also took the entire door off the fridge with his toy driver. Dude. He used to take two. Why are we talking about these people now? It's just good memories. He would take a ramen noodle, wrap it around his head, put it in his mouth and suck it and it would go around. His fucking head broke into his mouth. We got one memory you didn't remember. Oh dude. Yeah, they were great. They were great. I remember we went to Bible camp, a summer camp one year, and Ryan wasn't allowed to go because his parents were like, you're not mature enough, dude. Like you'll fucking disappear into the woods. And he was like pumped. And then they let him go the next year cause I was like, come on man. Like it's Ryan. Like we all got to be there. And he went, and that was, I remember that distinct moment where Ryan started like grooming himself cause he was like, girls are cool. And I remember that was where I was like, Oh, you don't even realize it's happening. You know? And you're like, Oh yeah, I guess so. Yeah. What's happening? Yeah. That's hilarious. Ryan also had that gorgeous long curly hair. They had the hobbit hair. He looked like Frodo Baggins. Yeah. Beautiful man. Yeah. He's great. Is it Baggins or Beggins? I say Baggins. And if you're a fucking dumb ass, you say it the other way. This was the same person where on one of the family nights we were talking about swirlies in the beginning where worship's happening in the front room. Our dads are praying, teaching as they did. Yeah. And we're in the back, you know, watching princess bride. No. In reality was Ryan and Jordan were wrapping me up in caution tape, head to toe. Oh yeah. And it took me into your parents' bathroom. Gave me a swirly. Yeah. Threw me back in the room and closed the door where I couldn't get out of the caution tape. Torture. Peer torture. What do you have to say about that? I'm sorry. You were so sorry while it was happening. I'll never forget it cause you were like, I'm so sorry that we're doing this to you. I'm so sorry we're doing this to you. He made me do it. Dude, something I wanted to talk to you guys about is, um, is music. And do you, do you guys ever, um, like re-listen to or listen to like old Christian music? No. You shut it off. Well, which band are you talking to? Well, see like in my rotation is like, like, uh, it'll be in my playlist is like Jars of Clay. Really? You're still listening rain on my face. Yeah. Well, because when I hear those songs, it's like a time machine. I know it's corny as fuck, but it's, it's, it's the closest we'll get to time travel and I can remember the Napa house. I can remember my mom making tacos. We're playing in the backyard. That's playing on the stereo. And then, then the Bible study would happen. We'd watch return to the Jedi. So it's a good memory for me. I, you know what I mean? Like, so when I hear these songs, I'm like, I can almost smell the food. You know what I mean? It's so cool. You know? So Jars of Clay is one of them. Um, that's actually a really beautiful point that you bring up because, um, so much of our podcast is not necessarily talking about good memories. Sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's all about trauma here. Um, obviously we also had one, a wonderful childhood and I think that like part of, you know, like separating yourself from the trauma of your past as being able to actually look at your childhood in a positive light. And I mean, these were the great, I felt like we had the luckiest childhood. If you really want to be honest about it. Like, yeah, we played video games, watch movies, hang out with your best friends, go to summer camp, winter camp, spring camp. I enjoyed winter camp, less hot. You know, like given, given these camps did have like two hour Bible studies and kids in the dirt face planet. But you're also talking about a time when the youth group was like thriving and it was all these people were talking about were in it and we are all best friends because that was only about like a four year period where we were all hanging out. Everyone was kind of cool. And then there was like people got out of the youth group, people grew up and then it changed. It changed. Yeah. Yeah. See, cause like you, you talked about it on another podcast where like you were still in it after we were like long gone. And like, so in like, you know, I moved on with my life, like I was getting jobs and stuff and it was like, Oh, I didn't even think about youth group. That was something that I was thinking about on the way here. It was like, I don't really like, I think about my life and it's like, yeah, cool, cool, cool. And I, I, I, I love it, but I don't really think about like the feeling of that feeling of like being trapped and listening to a Bible study for a few hours. You know what I mean? And some of them were great. Like I, did I learn lessons? Sure. You know? Yes. Yeah. Um, is it weird to hear a story about a guy almost sacrificing his son a little, you know what I mean? A little bit, but, and it's like, dad, would you do that for me? No. And he's like, no, no. And another thing I always talk to my dad about that I always struggled with was the book of revelation because it's like, it's really gnarly. And something I would struggle with is, you know, they preach about, you know, the slaying of people and, and, and the decimation of, of the unholy and a lake of blood and this kind of stuff. And you know, you'd hear a guy behind you going like, Hey man, brother, brother, brother. And in my head I'm like, we should be on our knees wailing. That does not happen. Like, like it made me think of the times, like when Moses would like, like the verse says something, it's very specific. It says something like, and God's heart was moved by their, you know, wailing, you know, their, their, their, Hey, help us, help us, help us. And I'm like, if, if it happened back then we should probably try it again because that sounds effing terrible. You know? And so that was always my mindset. I was like, I don't like that book. You know what I mean? And they're like, Oh, but it's like, it's the fulfillment of prophets and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, it was written by a guy who was being boiled alive. You know what I mean? So, no. And, and, and, but I, I, it just, it was a hard one to swallow. And I would tell my dad, I'm like, dad, I'm struggling with this thought of hearing older men say, I can't wait for the rapture to happen. Um, when I'm, you know, 17 years old, it's like, I want to have a life. I want to have a kid. I want to experience life. Am I a sinner for feeling that? And my dad was like, no, no, no. That feeling of wanting is God given. Like he would explain that to me. So he's like, don't feel bad. Fear people talking about the rapture and how, you know, they want to, you know, it'd be over. It's like, you know, their lives are hard. Of course. You want to go to paradise. Who wouldn't want to go to paradise? I don't want to pay bills anymore. Fuck that shit. Once again, like a beautiful description of like a parent that was being a realist. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Bringing some like bringing reality to the supernatural. Right. Like, you know, dad, this is kind of crazy. Yeah. And he would be like, yeah, yeah. But that was something that always stuck with me is I would hate those kind of like low murmurings of like, yeah, brother. Oh yeah. Yeah. That always hurt me. That hurt. I would, I'd be like, no, I don't like that. I would make a mental note to not allow my heart to feel that way. I'd be like, no, not me. Speaking of revelation, you know, there's a lot of people in our comments on Instagram and YouTube right now that are reminding us the end times are near. Sure. And they were reminding us when we were also like 17, 16 the end times, seemed to always be near. Yeah. Really close by. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, uh, we've talked about that a lot that that's probably, I mean for like my insomnia. Yeah. Right. Trying not to always blame everything on, try not trying not to blame everything on the Bible. But when you are a kid and that was your experience for me, mine wasn't being scared of the end times. It was, at least I'm one of the lucky ones who has the answer. Oh, interesting. I was never scared of it. I was always proud of it. I was petrified. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, no, no, no. So you're so, I think that that's the correct response. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. I don't want to see a lake of blood by anybody. Mine was like, holy or not. Yeah. When I was like 17, 18, I was like, wait a minute. Could have like, I just did, you know, psychedelics for the first time. 17 years old, 18 years old or whatever. And I like came out of it and was like, is it possible some of these people in the Bible were just like, cause I saw the same shit, you know, that this person would be talking about in revelation. I would see that and like make these connections and be like, I wonder if drugs are part of these people in the Bible. Like were they using these sort of substances and whatnot? Um, I'd never was once scared about the book of revelation. I wasn't scared about end time. Interesting. I think it played out for me in insomnia. Oh, interesting. When I would go to sleep as I remember as a kid going to sleep, I'd always be really scared of, I didn't even know what it was. It was just like, you know, something around going to sleep and death and eternal life versus certain people going to health for eternal life, lay me down, eternal life, whether hell or heaven was too much for me to process. Yeah. So falling asleep was like, you know, what's a tiny death. It's a tiny, tiny death. Yeah, exactly. I get it. It's the, what's the, I lay me down to sleep. I pray my soul to keep, may I wait. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, yeah, I'm totally butchering it, but there's a part of it where it's like, you know, I pray I wake, you know, or it's like, well, that's scary. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and another thing that always kind of got me, and I talked to my mom about it maybe a year or so ago and I was like, so Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible and, and smart guy, you know, smart guy, you know, but smart for his time. And it's like, Hey, but he was taught by the highest society of the time, the Egyptians, you know, these scholars and you know, and they, they're smart math. You see the premium, you see the pyramids today, their architecture, their, their, their, uh, mapping of the stars. Great. Yeah. They also thought that the sun died every night and if they didn't worship a certain way, it wouldn't come back. So you have to understand like, yeah, he's the smartest guy, but he, he was also taught by people that believed X, Y, and Z. So I was like, I was always 2000 years. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, Hey man, that's kind of tough, man. Like, I don't know. And yeah, I, I really, I guess what I gleaned from my religious upbringing was I, it was always love focused and it was always very like, Hey, what are the words of Jesus say? You know, what, what is he talking about? And if you really, and I, I, I correct me if I'm misquoting you guys, but you guys have even even said that there are beautiful things in the Bible. Like, like some of the words that Jesus has said, you know, when you, if you look at them and it's like, Hey, feed the hungry, I don't see a problem with that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, treat others how you want to be treated noted. If we really did, there'd be no war, you know, cause Hey Nate, do you want to get shot in the face? No, I don't. Do you want to see your son's school get hit by a drone strike? No. What the fuck is happening? You know? So I, that's where my anxiety comes from. It comes from this, like, I understand that if we loved each other it would be different, but why don't we love each other? So that's kind of where, that's why I was like, so in my head I made the decision, I'm just going to love as much as I can. And that's, yeah, I literally got it tattooed on my hands. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think there's, there's like an, in there's so much that we talk about with different people on this cast where like, um, I think good parenting is like really fucking important. This is like where like we were just talking to the guests, I think our last guests before we were talking about how, um, the episode's not out yet. So just about how, um, this thought maybe it was a couple episodes ago. It was the thought of like, did we ever have any friends that were in the church that were just like chill kids with chill parents and they just like, like really nice lives. And it was like, wait a minute, you don't have, you know, you're not, you weren't forced to go to youth group. You weren't forced to read the Bible every morning or whatever. Whereas like in our experience, it just wasn't that way. It was different. And there wasn't, whenever these sort of conversations were bought, Hey dad, what about this? It always led into like when we're, we were of age, there wasn't any sort of like feeling that I'm being seen in this sort of fear or the scene. It was more just straight to arguing. Oh sure. Or just straight to Jesus first, Zach. Yeah. Jesus first or die. It's like, Oh right, right. Jesus first or die. Yeah. Yeah. The end times are scary. There was actually horrifying. Yeah. I don't want it. I feel like logic was taken out a lot. Yeah. You're going to be just fine tucked away in that head. Sure. And until that day, you do as much as you can to get as many people there with you. Sure. So I think that like with us with this podcast, we see a lot of that mentality in our comments and I try to be like, lighthearted with it or whatever, but it's just identical to the same shit we were raised with, which is like legitimate. These people have legitimate fear. Yeah. And what we're doing here is pulling people away from having eternal life. Yeah. And that's big. And that's a big fear to have. And also too, I have, I have sympathy towards them. You know what I mean? Like, like if, if you understand why they're going so gung ho for it, it's like, yeah, they, they, they think they're saving your eternal soul. Like it's a big deal to them, you know? And it's kind of like, we've all been there. Yeah. Right. Oh, I know exactly how you feel. Yeah. I know. I know what it feels like. I mean, I guess, I think like it's hard for me to feel that way, like as a 40 or 50 year old man. Sure. Right. Telling like people on a like to being like in my being like somebody in your fifties who's had kids that have like moved up and grown up, you're still like heart and like, like what you're doing is up the devil. I mean, it's one thing to be like, I don't, I don't get how people are like still in it. How could you spend 50 years still in it and not see through like the bullshit that I die? Don't get that. But I do understand the feeling of being in it and being like in the cold sympathizer. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, again though, like there were great times even being in it, you know, like one, one of the things like I liked a lot were going on like the mission trips because you felt like you were actually doing something like sometimes, you know, you go to church so much, you're just like, what are we doing? But then you would go to like gleanings. Yeah. Well like, yeah, there's something that I have a story about. Gleanings about you. We've talked so much on this. We call out so much of our past on this podcast. That's why we have this podcast. And so like mission strips having a direct connection to colonialism and like a bunch of white people going to Mexico. They don't even speak the language, but they're like doing these plays in front of Spanish speaking people of like Jesus dying on a cross and outfits or whatever. Oh yeah. You got it. Passion of the heart or something like that with the red. Yes. But if I'm looking back on this passion, like regardless of how I was on those, you know, past mission trips, that was the most diverse I ever got ever in life. Sure. Was seeing diversity. Yeah. I think other people lived and having those thoughts like, you know, like we're here doing this and that's kind of weird cause they're just like living their lives normally. Yeah. How would I feel if I was just like walking down the street and a group of people were in costumes like doing a reenactment of Jesus Christ dying on the cross? Oh, you'd probably think it was pretty fucking weird. I'd probably be like praise Jesus. Well, okay. Little thing about that play is I wanted to do it, you know, and uh, they, we go to your house and they're like, they have the video, like the training video, like thanks for purchasing this video for your youth group to bond over. And I'm like, okay, that's fucking weird. We're putting on the sweats and shit. And I'm like, okay, okay. And they're like, okay, and this is the mark you hit in the hood. Yeah. You know, there's like suicide and shit. It's like, what the fuck? And uh, but right when they're about to start and like, okay, Jordan, so watch this rumbly in my tumbly. I'm all, Oh fuck. And I blew up your bathroom so bad. I was in there. I was in there the entire training video. Oh dude, I shit my brains out. It was so bad. It was like the scene from dumb and dumber. My legs were in the air. I was like, Oh fuck, I hope they could get it out of the porcelain. I'm dying. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm missing it. And then like, I shit my brains out. I come into the kitchen and cause you had that TV living room area. There was your Island, you know what I'm saying? I don't want to docs where you lived, but yeah. Anyway, the house in Windsor, Windsor is that neighborhood. And um, I come around the corner and literally at that moment they stopped me. Go, yeah, Jordan. So what do you think? And I'm sweating. I'm just like, Oh, I didn't see it. Literally having the worst shit of my life. And they were like, Oh, okay. And I never, I didn't end up doing it cause like at that moment they were like, I guess he's not really a, not really passionately material. I was like, I guess this is a pair. I was like, I had to shit. I ate like bad Taco Bell or something. Yeah. The classic post church meal. Yeah. Taco Bell. Taco Bell. When you mentioned the whole suicide aspect of that, I instantly saw, uh, Ted doing it. He did it so well. And it was, I couldn't even process what was actually being acted in it. But looking back at it now, how wild, how wild. It's crazy. Because it's absolutely wild. Far from it. He's doing great. Yeah. He's a dad. Yeah. Dad, two beautiful kids. Beautiful wife. Uh, yeah. No, he's dead. Yeah. Yeah. So fulfilling prophecy dude. Like, yeah, he, he, he is unlived. No, uh, yeah. Um, no, uh, at gleanings. Oh fuck me. Here's another one. I tried to kill you. So gleanings. Yeah. Oh, gleanings is, uh, it's a, uh, peach dehydration plant. Yes. Where, uh, what the term gleanings means is it's to glean from what's left behind and these peach farmers can't sell nice looking peaches or deformed peaches because white people won't buy them. So you get them and you, you, you cut them, you dry them, you send them to poor kids in Russia or Afghanistan or New Zealand or probably they just kept them. I don't know. I'm sorry. They were, they were sweet people. They were great. And at gleanings, uh, they had built this like new like a cafeteria and there was this nice big door and above the door was this bug zapper. And I was like we were like getting some drinks late at night. Like there were no lights on and shit. And I go, Nate, fucking jump up on that table. Fucking spit water into that. And I'm like not realizing how electricity works. You fucking did it dude. Of course. You were like, fuck yeah. And you got up on the thing and you were like, like spit it. And it was like, and we just fucking bolted. We were like, we're going to burn it down. We've like ran, got in our sleeping bags. We're like, no, we're here the whole time. I was here masturbating. Don't tell anybody. Yeah. Yeah. I was praying and I was using the peaches. Yeah. I lost my virginity at gleamings to a peach. Oh man. That was tough work though. Hey. And, but the thing about that though is I felt bonded to you guys through that hard work. Like I think people like bond even if you take like the religious part out of it. If you work hard with someone, Oh dude, you're like in the trenches. You are. This is the way they got Jesus into you. Yeah. They make you, they make these kids work like 10 hour days in the sun. They'd be like, all right, sit down. We're going to teach you about the book of John. It's like you're in the trenches. People would come from all over the world. You'd be like chopping peaches next to somebody from Canada. This other person was from Norway. But that was the place to meet like a new, a new relationship. Just like everything with religious camps was like going to find your wife or your husband. Well, point to that. I remember they sat us all down and they were like, Hey dude, this is a place for like, you know, work and religion. This is not a place where you try to like meet a girl or whatever. And in my head I went, well, where else are we going to meet a girl? Yeah. Like I was like, Oh, I was like, do we go to a bar when we're 21? What the fuck? This is the perfect place to meet the girl of our dreams. Of the Christian dream. There were certain things. I don't know if it's just the way I was raised. I would just go like this. Yeah, nope. And just fucking chuck that shit out. I was like, nope, nah, nah. See you later. You always had that ability to like think for yourself. Well, it was encouraged by my dad. It was encouraged by my dad. He was just like, yeah, think for yourself, man. And it was so hard. I remember being, it was all about fitting in doing the right thing. Being a perfect person. And no one, no one of Christ or that was like an an elder preaching to you or telling you what to do could be wrong. At least in my eyes. Everything that everyone said, if they were like a leader in the church, I'd be like, well, they must know they're a leader in the church. I'm going to believe them. Oh, see? No, I was like, I was like, listen to them and be respectful, but also think for yourself. See, like there's other people that I know that would be like, well, what about this and this? He's right there. You know? And then he got, you know, excommunicated. So I was like, well, I don't want to leave my house. So no, no, I just, it, nothing like that. It was, it was a thing of like, listen to everybody, be respectful, but also, Hey, yeah. Think for yourself. You know, like, come on. Yeah. Uh, you know, and you would just, and it wasn't hard to do like when people would say super dumb shit like, Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could put homosexuals on an Island and Duke, the Island. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm 13 and I don't, I think better than you, you know, 40 year old fuck. And in my head I was like, I will never be like you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, I guess that's what it's like. It's like I don't have trauma because I just was like, and I'm not be like, cause my brain is so good. Like, no, it's, it's parenting. I was parenting and my dad was like reinforcing thinking for yourself and, but you know, doing it in a respectful way. You know, listen to the elder. Yes sir. Yeah, cool. And then just be like, yeah, see you later. Yeah. And you know, it's like, it's, it's interesting. It's an interesting like correlation to make because I didn't have that. We didn't have that. Sure. That sort of connection in the brain. So like my only way of learning anything was to be rambunctious about it to say the extra thing. But what about this? And say it out loud in a group of people. And then be like, Oh God, here's Nathan again. I remember like where my sister was, Natalie wasn't married yet. Like we're all at the house and my sister literally came and was like, Hey, have you ever tried maybe not speaking what's in your mind? And she like, I remember her like telling me like, the reason why you get in trouble all the time and I don't is because you know, I don't say anything. And I remember being young, being like, yeah, I'm going to say it. How did you do it? Cause that was Natalie's superpower was kind of the similar thing. Oh yeah. I'm just not going to ever say what I'm thinking and no one's ever going to know and I'm never going to be in trouble for anything. Right. So me and Natalie married each other that way and Becky and you mirror each other. Yeah. Becky was the middle kid. Oh yeah. Becky was like, uh-uh motherfucker. Like I'm going to say this and that. Oh yeah. Becky. Which we know that your sister's probably going to be on our cast at some point. I hope she is. And I'm going to say this here into that camera. She is the smartest woman I know. She is so strong and so smart and just dude, like, Oh my God, I love talking to her. Like, yeah, she is so confident and so just like, no dude, this is how it is now. You know, like fuck you. And I just love that. Someday we'll have you three and then Natalie here too. Oh, that'd be wild. We'll do a six person. Oh dude, that'd be wild. Yeah. Just stop bringing up the whole swirly thing. You know, that was one story. There's more. I'll come back if you stop bringing up the swirly. If you stop fucking bringing up the swirly. There's more direct abuse. Oh dude, there was a, I do have to say though that Nate, Nate did, Nate did kind of bring that on himself though. Of course. That's why, that's my point. I'm making no asking for it. It was like kind of the funny, cool thing to do. And he was like, Oh, I'll let you put my head in the toilet if I'm cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, well, I guess we can do it. Yeah. I didn't feel good about it. Yeah. No, I, I think, I think, I mean, not to call it Ryan, I think he felt good about it. Well he drank out of the toilet. So he's like, Oh, you mean out of where we get water? Like, that's a dig. Sorry. Hopefully he's not drinking out of the toilet. Let his name slide besides that one. We'll mute it for that. You didn't meet my name for everything. I know what you're talking about. You fucks. Six podcasts. I'd be chaotic and fun. I'd be fucking sick. No, I just, um, I just, I, yeah, I think that it's, um, there is, there is a really an amazing connection to good parenting. Yeah. And like so much on our podcasts, we try so hard not to speak ill of our parents. Cause I love our parents. We still have a relationship with them. Yeah. You're not like, yeah. Right. And our cast is meeting people that don't have relationships with their parents anymore. And so sometimes I'm even surprised that we do have such a strong relationship. Um, it's strong. It's we're working on it. It's not that strong. At the end of the day, they're really unhappy with us. Well, I'm sure it's hard, but at the end of the day, I truly believe they love you. You know what I mean? Like, Oh, well, and I'm just speaking from how I grew up and I saw them, how they looked at you and how, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not, cause I've seen, I, when I lived in South Dakota, I had friends, I had, um, we were really poor. So I didn't really connect with their wealthy white kids. I hung out with the native kids and some of their parents were kind of rough, you know what I mean? And it, it, there was abuse and there was, there was a way that they, they handled each other and I was like, Ooh, that's different. I don't know what that is. I've never, you know, culturally different. Yeah. Yeah. And just, and, and also too, like their parents abuse them and you know, it's, you know, so it, it's, yeah. And so I would just try to be like a ray of hope or not a ray of hope. Wow. Jesus, Jesus Christ, sunshine in the room, you know, to make everyone laugh. And Hey, look at the token white kid, you know, everybody, feathers. No, I just, you know, I just, yeah, it's a fucking, just trying to make them laugh. And, uh, they, I connected with them so much that they would actually take me to their pow wows and stuff. Like it was fucking tight. Yeah. It was cool. It was really, it was like, I'd get like side-eyed sometimes, you know, like who's that fucking white kid. And they're like, no, no, no, dude. Like he's cool. Like Eric's friends. Cool. And um, then so I never felt that feeling in your home ever. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Our parents loved us. They still love us. Yeah. And also like anything, like every family, like behind closed doors or whatever. Right. Everyone's just, I think that like there's, uh, the, the heart of Mike with our folks, the reason why they get brought up so much in this cast by your parents even being brought up, I think a lot is because in our lives we were born into having parents that were directly related to doing ministry church. You like grew up from birth, having people, your parents were in the ministry worship, bleeding, whatever it was, or even teaching. Right. So we had parents that we just like looked at teaching from this Bible and we didn't have any other sort of reference. Well, see, I saw what went down was, my dad got saved and he did it for a while, fell away. And then so when I was like kindergarten, that's when I started seeing him read his Bible again. So he like, there was like a, a resurgence, you know, of it. So I actually lived life for a while where there, you know, it was more like, you know, watch the Simpsons or whatever, you know what I mean? It was just normal. Like it was like whatever. And then it got back into it. Yeah. And so like you, I think like anybody having, if you have parents that are like, yeah, we're born again, Christians, this is what we follow, but there's this whole world that we're living in and we got to be a part of it. Or if you have parents that are like, I'm a born again, Christian, I'm a leader in it. And by the way, this world's full of sin and everybody in it's wrong until they find this path. That's going to be like this really, you're going to have, unless you follow that path, right? You're going to come up swinging against it. So like to respond to you is my parents are absolutely amazing lovers. Oh yeah. They're unconditional lovers. I've just always said, and this cast has really helped me and Zach come to this conclusion more and more is that they, they do have unconditional love. It's just the religion they choose and how they believe in it. That makes it conditioned. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not on capable of unconditional love. Right. But in our experience, they have had direct connection to doing things that I saw many other parents never treat their kids that way. Sure. Where it was, there wasn't this religion that was defining how they, everything top to bottom. Yeah. And no parent in my sensitive heart, I would want that to be bridged. You know what I'm saying? Like I would want that to be over with, you know, and same. I think that's how your parents are. Yeah. Right. They have that bridge. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like, you know, like in your parents would do things where they'd be like, yo, that person, that leader in the church is not right. What they just said is wrong. Oh dude, my dad would get in arguments all the time, like all the time. Like he'd be like, yeah, no, that what you're preaching there, that's works based. It's all about loving God, man. What are you talking about? And then be like, well, Jeff, come on. And he's like, no dude, no, get out of here. Get your shit right. He's like, oh dad, I guess we're going to a new church. Yeah. So my dad was very like, not like righteous indignation or anything. He was just like, no, if you stop talking about Jesus and you stop preaching love, what are we doing? Yeah. I mean, so that's, yeah. And yeah, it was always love first. Always. Yeah. Yeah. And just, it's like, oh, well, but what about this issue? Uh, approach it with love. You know, what do you, what are you worried about? And so like, I would, I would like love to sit here and be like, yeah, I think our folks are the same way they are, but then we get into conversations with them on almost every single issue. And that's not what's, oh yeah, no, no. Yeah, no, no. Um, my, uh, like I told my mom and dad that I had the panic attack and I was smoking weed. They laughed in my face. Like they laughed in my face. Like what do you do with your idiot? I know that you're coming on the cast. No, but I don't think they would. No, no, no. It's, I don't think that they would be upset. No, no. Upset or disappointed at all. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Like that's, that's who they raised me to be. Like if they are, like if they're upset with you or whatever, they have feelings cause they're friends or your parents, you know, uh, approach it with love. You know what I mean? And that's what I'm here to do. You know, it's not, I'm not here to change your hearts. I'm not, I'm not here to, uh, uh, negate your agency in the, what you went through. It's, I'm here to say that I love you. You know, that's the point. Like, come on guys. Like that's what it's about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And no matter where you're at, no matter how you say it, no matter, I'm the kind of person, like if, if you're having the worst day ever and you're like, dude, I'm alone. And then if my name came to your head, you'd go, that guy, he's got me. Like there is love. You know what I mean? So that's how I'd want to live my life. That's beautiful. And, uh, uh, yeah, so I, uh, have heart cancer and I have four months to live. If you could go fund me real quick. We're going to head, put the link at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Um, let's play the music. Everyone pass out. You guys should have a plate. That'd be fucking funny. That should be your Patrion. The plate that goes around to all these guests. Yeah. I saw a clip where you guys were talking about like monetization. We were just dropped it. Oh, you just dropped it. Yeah. And I watched it. And I literally was like, I was going to send you emojis of plates and the dove. I'd just be like, what the fuck? That's our take. That's our take. I was all, just like, just like the church. The hardest thing is asking people from money when you're like, fuck tithing. Anyways, if you want to donate to our podcast, go ahead and go to www dot. Yeah. Hey, guess what? I've never done tithe. Really ever once. You know what I've never done? And I know it went to my dad. Oh, well I would think that this is going right back to me. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you're all, that's my allowance. Yeah. Those are those new Nike's. No, I uh, I never tied and I never once rose my hand in worship. Really? No, I never felt right. You were the opposite of me. Yeah, I couldn't do it. I was like, man, Zach didn't sing much and I'd be there. Like, come on Zach. Sing. Yeah. Oh, I enjoyed the singing. Even to this day, like to some of your guys's points, there are parts of it you miss the ritual even like, and I don't want to sound like weak minded or whatever, but it's like, yeah dude, we're humans and we miss rituals. The worship was fucking tight. I go on these amazing plant medicine retreats where you two can come and sing a few guys. Yeah. See you later, bro. Yeah. See you man. Come on guys. You can bring the worship back. Yeah. Well, you know what's funny is I was listening to a podcast with, um, a comedian, uh, Pete Holmes and he grew up, he, Oh dude, he grew up Quaker. Yeah. He has this joke where he's like, there were a lot of carpeted, uh, gymnasiums in my life. And it's like, bro, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, let's hear those testimonies. And uh, he was talking about how there's a service in Southern California, where all it is is worship. There's no sermon. You go there, you worship and you leave. And he's like, it's beautiful. And I'm like, that sounds tight. Yeah. Like he's like, you can commune, you know, the, he goes, there's that little cool coffee thing in the back and you know, and he's like, but then you don't, you just go, you know, when you're ready to go. And I was like, I'll go to that. That sounds tight. I'd probably still be a Christian if that was the case. Yeah. Yeah. He's over there like, fuck that. Yeah, I'm just playing. There's like so many different ways to be a Christian. Yeah. So many different types of Christians in this world. Yeah. Um, well it's even hard for me to say that I'm a Christian because truly what a Christian means is to be Christ-like and it's like, is anyone, do you know, do you know what I'm saying? Consider yourself a Christian. I dude, I want to be not asked that question. No, no, no. It's, it's, I, I want to believe so badly. You know what I mean? I want it. Also too, something that I struggle with is the idea of this just ending. It seems cruel. Does that mean, you know what I mean? Does that seem weird to me or to you guys? It's like, what? Like all the laughs and chocolate cakes and sex and fuck it. It's over. Yeah. Dumb. You know what I mean? Like that's dumb. So because of that, I hope on a prayer that something is real. Yeah. And there's this, my favorite verse in the Bible. Uh, I will misquote it because I haven't read it, but it's not John three 16. It's not, you know, it was this first time my dad showed me and he's like, cause I was concerned about dying and like, like what's happening. And he's like, Hey, like it's, it says this, like when you pass from this plane to another, all things will be made known. And I liked that where it's like what's really going on, you know, like, like, and he, I go, what does that mean? He goes, you'll know. Like, like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe you float a space dust for awhile and then you find this giant sign. It's like, Oh, I'm God. You know what, you know, what does it mean? You know, I don't know. But I liked that. I found comfort in that where it's like, we think we know what's going on and we don't. Yeah. And anyone who tells you they know what's going on, they're trying to sell you something. Yeah. And I know everyone says that it's cliche, but it's real. It's true. It's true. It's there's, there's some snake oil dude. But that verse, I was like, that ring true in my ear where it was just like, when you pass from this plane, all things will be made known. And I'm like, tight. You know what I mean? Tight. Yeah. And I think that it's like, it's pretty damn scary to think of like to live this entire life and then for there to be nothing. And that's a scary thought. But to that point though, if there is nothing, you, me, Zach, everything, that plant, that light, everything, I just got blinded by it. Um, the, you and I have non-existed longer than we will exist. And if you think about that non-existence think about before you were three years old, four years old, rubbing your head on the carpet, you felt no pain. You felt no worry. You felt nothing. So it's kind of like, is there peace? Well, I guess that's peace. But it is also there is nothing. There is nothing. So in my head, I kind of came to terms with that. But I, but if you ask me, are you Christian? I would hope that there's more. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You know, if you were to ask me the same as that question, I'd probably respond really differently. But my actions in my healing process now are still going and trying to get the fuck out of my mind to use the things of this planet to be like, let's go see what's out there. Sure. Right. Yeah. And I think that like, so when you're born in a family where it's like really kind of is, you know, one way or the highway, it's black and white, there's heaven and hell. You were right. Right. And then you like deconstruct that. You're not going to just going to be able to be like, well, then there's nothing out there and I'm not going to worry about it. You're going to be questioning. And so like we've talked so much about how like when people, when I left Christianity and I like was jumping into other religions right after it was like, let's do Islam. Let's do Judaism. Let's do Hinduism. Let's do Buddhism. Cause it was too hard for me to think that there wasn't something else that I needed to find. You thought you missed it. And I, and I've said this a bunch, but I really don't think that I fully started to grasp deconstruction until we started this cast to where like with my therapists that I've had now like four or five years and I've done all this different types of modalities of healing or whatever, like just in my own personal experience to where I've gotten a lot more comfortable letting it all go. Like not needing, like it is really sad where like the thing that you had with all of us growing up as kids, there's like our whole childhood and teenage life, if not most of our, like from like zero, like 18 is being like every thought is heaven or hell, Jesus Christ on the cross, other religions being wrong. You were right. And so then you're telling me that I'm supposed to just let this go and be wrong, right? When you were right and you had found like the right path this whole time. It's the scariest thing ever. And I think that's part of deconstruction. And I think that that's why I'm still on this journey. That's why I love psychedelics. That's why I love traveling the cosmos. And when I say love, it's scary shit. So, you know, like you do it with intention and with the right or else you'll be calling a firefighter, checking your blood pressure. But because it's not easy and I don't think it's meant to be, and there's so many different ways that people find answers so that they can live peacefully every day of their life. And a lot of a shit show down here on earth, whatever that means. Right. And so, so much of like my healing has been learning that like they, you know, another cliche term is heavens here and now. So we were like raised to think that this world was evil. If you go into this world of sin and technically it's the garden, look at it, we're in it. Yeah. And so then like, but really like life can be heaven here and now it can be, but it's just really hard to like live that. And you understand that for yourself as on a personal level. And so I totally understand what you're saying. I think that Zach and I do this podcast because we really, really, really do wish that we could have, like I've always had a dream of having a relationship with my parents and the ways that I see other people like the way you have a relationship with your parents. We can't talk about anything that we talk about on this cast. We can't be real, really at all with our parents. And I think that so we gotta be real as somebody. Yeah. Right. So we gotta have, we gotta make some sort of reason of this. And so like having guests on that share their stories, like sometimes hearing trauma can be so tiring, but it also makes me feel a lot less alone in the thoughts that I've had my whole life about eternity or whatever. That's the thing that's weird about trauma and like depression and stuff is that weird like trigger that goes in your head where you're like, I'm the only one going through this. Like it's a weird there's must be near like a selfish note or something. Cause you're just like, I'm alone. Yeah, I'm alone. And it's like, why? Cause you are not, you are not, well, you are kind of alone in your head. I think that's what loneliness comes in is you might be freaking out and you're like, no one else, no one else feels this. But in reality it's like, no, there's someone feeling it right now. Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. When I had my panic attack, my heart went out to people cause I did a bunch of reading that there's people that suffer from two or three a week and I was like, Oh no. Oh hell no. Zach was having like four or five panic attacks a day. Oh yeah. For months. Oh God, no. Oh no, no, no. That was one of the main things that Zach suffered like you suffered with was panic attacks. If you want me to start crying, like, Oh, I'm so sorry. You said when you found our podcasts, right? When we talked a long time ago. Yeah. And you were like, dude, I had no idea. Oh, I had no idea what you guys, well, no, like being a kid and seeing your home, I was like, that fucking, that losses man. That's tight. Like, you know, like I would leave your home, perfect family, perfect, perfect family. And then I know as you get older, you're like, no one's perfect. Yeah. You know, and, and it's humans raising humans and you know what I mean? They were kids once and now they have kids and stuff, but it's like, I did not think it was like that. So, but I, my heart would always be just like, I'd want to see healing. You know what I mean? That's all I'd want. Yeah. But it's so, it's so interesting that just to having that slight difference of a parent that's like, also use your brain. Yeah. Uh, that is changes everything. Oh yeah. Just, just a one sentence. You know what I mean? And uh, another thing that he said that always helped me cause we moved a lot cause we were renters and the houses get bold and then you get to do school district, yada, yada, yada. I would come to him and I'd be like, man, I'm afraid about like not making friends. And my dad would be like, Hey, I'm gonna tell you something. Lay a little philosophy on you. Friendly people have friends. He's like, he's like, Hey, Hey, be nice. And you, you'll have friends. And I, and something just clicked. And I was like, Oh yeah, got it. And I, I could walk into any group and if they were rude, I'm not fucking friends. And then if they weren't and we hit it off, I could just be friends with anybody. Walk into any, any situation. Just be like sup homie. You know, like whatever. Yeah. So that clicked. That was good. Yeah. No, he just, he just laid some just honest groundwork. Yeah. Just honest foundation, man. That's all it took and I'm trying to do the same with my boy. You know? Yeah, man. That's a same with me. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you can do, man. And you gotta let, you gotta let, uh, I think that like so often, right? You're like, as a parent, you're like, I'm never going to do things the way my parents did. And what's been really great about having a therapist and dealing with this trauma and like dealing with my own side of addiction and the drugs or alcohol, the ways I use them and all of my own issues is, uh, our parents did a really fucking good job parenting in many ways. For sure. And like I, I've stood by that. It's just like when there's trauma in the way, it's really easy to see your entire background as being this awful, evil, evil thing. No. And, uh, but there's my entire life, I've always like seen how one of the blessings we had with our parents and this goes, I know the same for you is we had parents that talked with us. Oh yeah. Like our, my dad, like our dad loves to talk. Yeah. Right. Which can be an issue and also like a really good thing. And so every single thing that came up in our lives, he would, sure. He put way too much emphasis on the things that maybe you should just let go and let the poor kid figure it out. Like it was just being a kid. Sure. You don't need to talk for two hours about God and all this Christian shit around the normal biological. Oh, right. Right. And that's where it gets all milky and weird. A hundred percent. But like ultimately I had more intuition on communication with adults and people and talking about hard shit. Yeah. Right. I'm like, no, let's talk about it and have eye contact. Yeah. Yeah. Like let's really talk about it. Yeah. He kind of forced us to learn how to do that. Yeah. And that's like, to this day, I mean that's like, it comes out in my power of like nursing and my intuition. And that's something you're grateful for. So great. It's amazing. Totally. So much of my healing over the last, I'd say year. Oh good. Of my life has been like, and I've always felt this way. It's just learning how to put like the feelings that are mixed in your body of trauma. Yeah. Right. Where like you have like this, I hate you dad. And I love you dad and I wish you were this way mom. And like all those feelings as a teenage angst. Like I just had been having to deal with a lot of my teenager angst and my trauma started, which is all on this cast. You can go back and it was that like I had to work through the Patreon. Yeah. Subscribe to the Patreon. We do it with our shirts off. It's like, yeah, we had, I had to go through like the eight year old self. Yeah. That's like one part. And there's like the 12 year old part. Then there's like the 17 year old part. Right now I'm with the 17 year old part, the part, but like the difference is the 17 year old can communicate. The 17 year old can like speak for themselves. Sure. And that's how I feel like a lot of learning how to parent that part of me has like really benefited parenting my son, which is learning how to just like let the fucker go. Yeah. Yeah. Like, no dude, dude, make it dude. I'm always here if you want to talk about it. Yeah. Right. Where the eight year old self was like, let me hold you no matter where I am right now. And like, and that's how like my process with me has felt like I had to go, I had to learn how to coddle myself. Oh, okay. Right. Then I had to learn how to let myself figure it out. Sure. And then now I have to let myself myself sort of like that 17 year old be angst and instead of being like, instead of being perfect, it's kind of like, no dude, that makes sense that you're feeling like you're angry right now about that. And instead of the anger coming out in my adult self, what happens is I feel that and I'm like, yeah, that 17 year olds is rumbling. There's a lot of trauma in that. Like I think there's like stages. Yeah. Yeah. And all of those stages, I, the 12 year old had had a father that was there. Yeah. Right. The eight year old had a mother and father that were there to the extent the 17 year olds. Yeah. 17 year old didn't. That's like, that's where the difference comes in, dude, when it comes to like, uh, that 15 to 17 year old time period, especially with Nate, especially talking about like my anxiety is like when I kind of, we smoked weed and I could not, this panic you're talking about, I could not get out of it. And it was like weeks went by, they kicked him out. And then that made it like 400 times worse. That it was like, how could this be the result of like one simple mistake of smoking weed or whatever. Yeah. And that, that love switched. But they're still, I mean, again, it's like hard to talk bad about your parents because they, they, that love you're talking about, it was all there until the church was wasn't in you anymore. And then that love kind of was more like, Oh, well we love everyone. That's a part of this, this unit, you know, unified body. Right. Yeah. It was kind of like, you know what? We love you so much. But that's how it felt. And it was like, I know you love me. And they'd be like, but I'm like, wait, hold on. There shouldn't be that, but you're doing, you did this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was what I do defines that love. But I've all, I have always felt that, that unconditional love from your family for sure. Endless. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I honestly like, I don't know what I would do. Like if it was flipped, you know, like the script, I, I like, um, I, I wouldn't be able to handle it. You know what I mean? Like I'm that I'm not like sensitive, you know, and I'm just thankful, you know? Well, I think you're making a really, yeah, we talked like two hours and get to the very end of the podcast. We'll talk about some religious trauma. I think you make a really good point is, and we've had some of those guests on our podcast or whatever. Some of those guests aren't alive anymore because there are certain people that weren't lucky enough to get past those times in their life. Maybe where they are homeless now or they are, got so addicted to drugs that their brains are like, you know, goners or they committed suicide. I think that's, um, since we've done this, since we started this podcast, even though we've always known that cause we've no stories like being out of the church now and then like hearing of things is we've had, you know, guests in our podcasts that have family members that committed suicide directly related to religious drama. And so I think that what you say is like a really good point is like, you know that about yourself that maybe there's like a, like if you were put through certain situations where like you didn't have parents that you could go to to be like, Hey, I'm having this crazy weird scary thought about hell. And then being having a parent be like, get used to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Where would that child go? Where would I have gone? Yeah. Oh dude. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. They were like, Oh, Jordan can't handle it. I always felt like you guys ever see the movie, uh, uh, hot rod. Oh dude, we're the part where he's like rolling down the Hill. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The part where she's like, he comes and he's like, what's wrong with the dad? My son dad. And they're like, Oh yeah, cause the heart disease he's had for 12 years. We didn't tell you cause we didn't think you could handle it. He's like, yeah dude, I honestly think my dad will probably pass and they won't tell me for three weeks. You know what I mean? They'll be like, you know, he's like, I'm here son. You know? Yeah. I just, I'm so like, yeah, just like, like they knew, they knew they're like, this kid is a poet. They're like, let him, you know, yeah. They took a very soft hand. I know that we, we've been going long enough. Yeah. Cause we're going to do the, you know, before we jump into the next part of our chat, I wanted to comment on that. Yeah. That you were the artsy person. All this emotion you were drawing all the time. Yeah. This entire cast, mind you, we haven't seen you in like how many years has it been like 10 years? If not longer than 10 years. I the last time I talked to you and saw you in person, you were struggling with some things and I was, I wish I could go back in time cause I didn't really understand how bad it was. You know, cause you were a teenager, you know, and I didn't understand it cause I just was like, well, it's going to be hard when girls try to, you know, touch your wiener. I was like, you're going to get sucked off in a taco bell. You know, it's fucking cool. I'm like, Oh, I ruined him. Like I was like, Oh fuck, I ruined him. No. So, and then Zach, I, when was the last time we saw each other? Do you remember where it was? I, I'm don't mean to be a dick. It was probably right when you guys moved to Lakeport. I think we came up to see the church. Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah. Okay. I was probably 15. Yeah. And then shortly after that, I remember Daniel coming and spending like a weekend with you and he came back and I was like, dude, fucking how's Zach? You know, thinking everything's cool. And he's just like, dude, it's fucking sad, man. I was like, what? Shut the fuck up. Like why? Cause I'm, I don't, sometimes I feel really dense, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not seeing the cues, you know what I mean? And I'm just like, Oh, okay, whatever. You know? And I felt bad, you know? And, and yeah, I just was like, Oh, why is he sad? You know? So yeah, Daniel was like, yeah, he's really fucking sad. I was a sad kid. I was really sad. Yeah. Like, like he remembers you like skateboarding. And like, like, you know how, like when people skate, I don't know, they look normal. You didn't look normal. Like you're skating in your head. And he's like, I've never seen someone skate like a sad clown. You're like, even this isn't helping. You're like doing a tray flip and landing it. You're like, I feel nothing. Yeah. Are you sponsoring? Like, no, not yet. No one loves me. Anyway, skating probably saved your goddamn life. It did. And also it might be the very reason why my back's fucked up. Hey, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You know what I'm saying? But what kills you? Hey, Zach, don't be a bitch. Yeah. Okay. Sweet. Whenever, whenever Zach brings up his back pain, we call him Zorn. Thanks Zorn. Why Zorn? Yeah, I don't know. He loves it. Because if you go back, go back about 20 episodes before we started interviewing guests, you'll see Zach doing this. Hey Zach, Zorn, do you think you could let it go of your back for the episode? Maybe like, so my fault, I have back pain. Zorn. That's Zorn. So funny. You're fucking 19 years old. How old are you? Yeah, I'm 18. Before we jump into the final section of this cast. And if you're wondering like where this episode is different because we're literally seeing you for the first time in so many years. We are here on air catching up, literally shooting this shit. Yeah. I showed up and we jumped right into it like an hour later. We know that Zach and I are on a mission to get more and more stories of the truth that's happening at these churches or the stories of our youth, you know, like all of that. But literally on the core of our podcast means I just want to fucking chill sometimes. Oh yeah. Yeah. Some episodes are for us. So yeah. And for them, I hope they laugh. That's all I want. Jordan is a tattoo artist who's going to be doing tattoos. We'd said this so many times. Remember the segment we did for our podcast called Does It Heal? We did one segment. We did one classic meme, Zach. It was awesome to our new segment. Never again. No, no, no. Our next episode for Does It Heal, whenever this happens, is going to be getting a tattoo by you. Yeah. Oh, sick, dude. Yeah. Filming it in your studio would be amazing. Yeah, we could do that. We're going to bring the whole crew, which means Zach and Stephanie and Ronald and whoever they are in the back here. You guys stay in the back behind the cameras, please. Don't even talk. They're really quiet. Don't make eye contact. I'm going to say they do a good job being quiet. Yeah. Almost like they're not there. Yeah. Almost like. How, um, have you always, this is Jurassic. This is a play on Jurassic Park. This is all Jordan's free hand. Yeah, I'm trying. Um, this is his alter ego here. That one's actually, I call that one Zach. Yeah. And if you have any issues with, um, with like gender. Yeah, that's the one. We saw this person on our cast when we came back from all taking a pee. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Nice. Um, once again, these are all free hands. What's the name of your tattoo shop? Heritage Tattoo. Did you want it? You want to put it on blast here? Yeah. Yeah. Heritage Tattoo in Lakeport, California. You get a light on fire scene and get that security money. If you want a tattoo done by Jordan, you better get in line. No. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not that busy, please. But Mike, if you're just listening, I'm showing pictures of his iron out. Um, do you think there's any, have you always, I know the answer to this. You've always drawn. Yes. I guess what's the question I wanted to ask is like, this shit is so fucking tedious to be able to draw like this. Yeah. I've always felt this way about artists, cartoonists. Um, and you and I as kids, one of the ways I used to always look up to you was your insane detail to movies and your ability to like recall how things were made. The actors, this director or this producer, and I like loved it. I remember like you'd always have the DVD perfectly pristine put away. And so you had the movie snatch. I'll never forget how we like loved the movie snatch together and I wasn't allowed to watch it, but then I would sneak watch and you had a copy of it. And then I ended up buying my copy of snatch because of you. Yeah. Cause I thought it was so fucking cool. Did you get the one with the deck of cards? I got the whole thing. It came with the two coin, the chips for gambling chips. Yeah. For playing Texas Hold'em. Yup. Yeah. Um, I still have my box of DVDs up there. There was like a hundred of them there. Um, but you know, then I went on to making music and was like a drummer and you know, and you were drawing like weird devil shit. Oh yeah. All the time. People would always be like so weirded out. How does this kid just draw devils and skulls? I remember you drawing a lot of Zelda stuff. Zelda stuff. I tried the anime thing for a while. Like anyone did. Do you knowing that we talked about how like your religious trauma or your connection to the church is different than like or as severe. Um, do you think there's any connection with like your upbringing or trauma? Like, when did you start getting into drawing? How did this become your life? So, so why, why I started drawing is I would draw in school because I didn't realize I needed glasses. I just, I'm very easy going. I'm very, just like whatever. I thought the moon looked like that, you know, like where it has like, like a, I have a stigmatism, no autism. I don't know where you cross your eyes and it looks like there's like two moons behind it kind of. And I was like, that's how it looks. And so the reason I got good at drawing is cause I couldn't see the board. So I got bored and I would just start sketching. I'd flip that homework over and just start sketching. Cause I was like, whatever do you like? They're just hobbling them and jumbling. And then like I go to get my driver's permit and the lady's like, read the letters above my head. And I was like, what? And she goes, come with me. And she goes, stick your face in this thing. And it looked like something out of like total recall. Like I like put my face in it and she's like, which line is clear to you? I was all the bottom one. And she's like, she looks at my mom and she goes, he needs glasses. He's blind. And my mom cried the entire way. And I was like, mom, how would I know? She was like, so she thought she was being a bad mother. This is a big difference. Our example would be like, they were wrong. They don't know what they're talking about. You're not blind. No. And I, I, and then here's the kicker. I go and get my glasses, get fitted. The next day is Halloween at school. I wear glasses. The next day I wear glasses. The next day I wear glasses. This chick in my health class just looks at me and goes, you can take those fucking things off now. And I just remember being like, okay, Stephanie, you fucking bitch. I'm blind. She was like, Oh, sorry. How much of a shocker was it to get glasses? Oh dude. It was like going from fucking Betamax to fucking Blu-ray dude. I was all, I literally said, you can see individual leaves in the tree. So what, till you're 15? Yeah. 16. I had no idea. Like, like if I take them off, so really I can't really see your face all are growing up. Oh yeah. I was blind. I had to go back and rewatch snatch and I didn't realize it wasn't a porno. No, no, it just, it was kind of cool to be like, Oh, you can actually see like the individual panels on the X wings. Like I just thought it was gray. Like I couldn't see detail. So it's funny that you'd be like, I remember you remembering all this detail. It's like, I'm fucking blind. No, but, uh, I, so it was kind of cool. I kind of got two lives. I got to go watch everything. You got a blind life and now you see. Well and I think that's why I liked going to the movies so much cause it was so big. I could actually see what the fuck was going on. Interesting. And so I got the glasses and then I was like, fuck drawing. No, I'm just kidding. I kept drawing. Cause I was like, what ended up happening is I can listen and draw and you could be like, what was I talking about? And I'd be like, you're talking about osmosis, blah, blah, blah. Like I, there's something about like listening and drawing. I can learn. It's, I don't know what I did. So it's a big trade of ADHD and ADB. Yeah, I probably have. So and the other thing that I like about drawing is because I was focused on it, the noise in my head would, uh, my head normally feels like there's about eight radio stations on. Like I'm like right now we're on this podcast and I'm literally thinking about Lord of the Rings and thinking about what we're having for dinner. So also when I smoked weed and it went, yeah. And I was like, I can just watch American dad and think about it. I was like, yes dude. So when I draw, it's like a natural focus. Like it's like, and that's why I chase tattooing because like if I'm not thinking about that, which is permanent on someone's skin, I I'll fuck it up. So it's this, it's what it is is it's quieting my brain and I'm able to just laser force to be present. Yes. Yeah. And I'm very in it and I'm just in it to win it. And I'm, I want it and I'm chasing perfection. There's, there's a saying, there's no such thing as a perfect tattoo, but God damn it. I'm trying to make like, God damn it. I'm trying. These are pretty perfect. Yeah. Thank you man. And uh, I, I'm very happy. My clients are happy. I worked at a tattoo shop for a long time. Built a clientele, was able to open my own shop with my wife. Yeah. That's dream. Um, my dream woes. Well, I suffered, I was getting angry about that thing where it's like, Oh cool. I have to work a job and pay bills for a family I never get to see. What the fuck is like, first of all, whoever made that game. Yeah. I'm going to punch you in the mouth. Like you fucking suck. Like you suck ass. So I was like, Heather, well and what was cool is Heather also came home one day from working at Starbucks and she was like, we're slaves. We're slaves dude. And I was like, Oh, welcome, welcome to the party. Yes. You now know what we've all been doing. And she goes, if I'm going to be a slave to this taxpayer bullshit, I'm going to do it what I want to do. And she did permanent makeup. So she's doing her thing. I'm doing my thing. And then it was like, we're under the same business license. Now we're saving money by being under the same roof. Wow. And now Heather's best friend who she learned how to come from is now coming in and working with us. So like the shop is like expanding. So it's like a tattoo shop and a makeup shop at the same time. It's a tattoo shop and permanent makeup, which are tattoos. Like so they can like lip blush and they can do your eyebrows. They can do faux freckles. And then also like Crystal does, like small tattoos, like little like, like crescent moons and shit like stuff. It's like, like you're going to make an appointment for that. Like, not that I'm like, I'm so big and like, I'll do them. I don't care. I love them all. But it's like some people, those are kind of like walk-ins, you know, like they're like trying to get something quick. And it's like, especially if you're doing art, if you're doing pieces on people that take like eight total days. Yeah. Right. And then someone comes in like, can I get a clutter behind my, yeah. It's like, ah, yeah. Like we're going to have you. Yeah. Crystal. Yeah. Crystal's all about it. And then, and then now also Heather, wants to apprentice under me. Like I want to teach her. So she's going to be my, like, yeah, she's gonna be like my little tattooed mama. And she, it's funny. She's like, I want to apprentice under you. And I was like, cool, take out my trash. And she's like, take out your fucking trash. I was like, you're a terrible apprentice. You're fucking terrible. It'll never work. Get the fuck out of here. She's like, fuck you dude. She's like, I've been putting up with your shit for 14 fucking years. Oh dude. Oh dude. You know how she looked at me when I was having a panic attack? And she was like, you just need to chill bro. I was like, if you talk to me like Matthew McConaughey one more time, I'm gonna fucking flip. Cause she was just like, I'm fucking, you know. Well, yeah. Cause our work is beautiful. Zach shares, and I share the same like, so perfectionism, right? We talk a lot about perfectionism with the church. Oh sure. Especially with like our parents were pretty perfect in the ways that they were like leaders in it. So much, some of our guests, there was like this classic, a lot of like connection with this idea of needing to be perfect, especially when you're coming out of the church. People tend to live these perfect lives, right? There's no real room to fault because that's sinful. Um, and so, but it sounds like a lot of what you found with tattooing like or drawing or whatever hadn't really nothing to do with the church. Just like you, your own experience with like, have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD? Uh, no. Have you ever had any diagnosis like that at all? No, no, I should. Um, we did the one where you like watch the YouTube video and while we're doing it, my wife's going, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I'm sitting there like, oh shit. I used to always say that I don't think it's really that big of a deal to be diagnosed because what are these systems in place? How do we know for sure? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I finally got to a place where it was like thinking about my youth, my high school experience, the weird antique over the top perfectionist things that I've always been like, that's because of my church trauma. Sure. Like I'm depressed because of my parents. I have anxiety because of this. And then I went and got tested. I think it was 2020 and you have herpes and they were like, yeah, got him. Sorry. It's too easy to say sorry. Don't you dare. So you're saying something emotional or whatever the fuck you were saying. How did Jesus hurt you again, bro? Go ahead. No, we're all waiting, bro. No, take your time. Oh, fuck. What am I supposed to add to that? It was too perfect. Which yeah, that's true, but they're not the sexual type. It's a fucking cold sore. It's the dumbest joke. Simplex one. I don't even know what simplex it is that I have. I have some sort of form of herpes. Everyone does. I'm taking all this out by the way. Cause I edit the podcast. No, you're not. Oh, you fucking dude. Take these cameras. Take these cameras. Give me one of the SD cards. No way, bro. All I was going to is my only point that I was going to try to make before you came out that really amazing joke was that when I did the testing, they had me do the space bar test and I was like, this was like four years ago, right? So I was like, what, 37 or 20, 37, 27 and the space bar chest is when like whenever you see the flash of light or the dot or whatever, you hit the space bar. It was a reaction time. And I'm in the red for everything. Like the guy, when I came out and the guy was like, so here's the deal. You obviously have ADHD. I was like, thanks. You know, you obviously have ADHD and I'm sure you knew that. And I was like, no, I don't. Well actually that's why I'm here. Yeah. And then he talked to me about trauma and depression. It was actually a really amazing, same team that you went through. Hell yeah. Can I comment on this? For sure. So I did the same test. Okay. But what's funny is we, I was getting Adderall from our old graphic designer cause I liked the way it made me feel. I was just medicating myself. We both loved how it made us feel. Little did we know it was medicating us. I go meet with this doctor to try to get on my own prescription. Yeah. Right. And when I took the test, I took it on Adderall. And so everything came back like, you don't, you have a borderline ADHD. And I'm just like, cool. I guess I don't have it, but I'm on Adderall as I'm taking it. Sorry. I never knew that. Yeah. That's classic. I still toss them in to give me a prescription though. Classic Zach about to go get tested for ADHD and you're like doing meth on the way there. Yeah. I'm like, I'm medicating myself. I'm getting an ADHD test. I was like, I can't have ADHD. You're just like, wow, you actually got the best score I've ever had. You do not have ADHD. Dude. I don't, I think, I think we all have a little ADHD dude. Like, but like, dude, sometimes my dad will like, we love it. Cause like he'll be like, like, all right. Yeah. Uh, going out to eat. We're going to sushi. Five minutes later. Text not bug it. Going to steak. No, you know what? Going to a fucking subway. You know what? We decided to stay in. Fuck all y'all. You're amazing. Like what the fuck? Yeah. It's awesome. It's awesome. I love that shit. You guys all still live close together. Yeah. Yeah. Except for Daniel. He's over in Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you his address. Yeah. I'm going to send him a picture of my butt hole. Here's the Google maps link. Yeah. No. Uh, yeah. He's doing that. Yeah. But we're all in the same towns and yeah. That's very cool. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the same town as our folks. And my brother is right here. We're still pretty, we're still pretty close. Natalie on the other hand. She's across the country. She's gone. Yeah. She's been gone since 19. Yeah. She left real quick. Yeah. She had to get out. I am trying to manifest her coming back. What are you like moving here? Yeah. Yeah. In your fucking dreams. Oh, no way. Yeah. There's a big chance that Megan's going to move, um, away when Evan's my son's older enough. Yeah. We'll probably move. Yeah. We're from Tennessee originally. I live in Florida. I met her in New Orleans. Oh, cool. Cool. Uh, we're leaving the country. Okay. Uh, we hated here. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You fucking privilege fuck. I own this almost multi-million dollar home and life's terrible. If Trump wins, we're out of here. Can you just, yeah, it's not multi-million. It's a million dollar home. Oh yeah. I didn't mean multi. It's one point, it's 1.3. God damn it. Don't make me sound rich. We're just middle class. No dude. Well, I mean, what middle class means is in debt. That's what that means. I skip a meal every fucking day just to say hello to any. You know what? I think it was recently, I think it was recently that Kate Blanchett said she was middle class. She is. Kate Blanchett said that she was middle class and she's getting a lot of flack for that woman says a lot of shit that she gets flack for. Hey, hey, hey, she's glad real. She can make any product that she wants. You'll have a middle class. Maybe I'm saying, is that Kate Blanchett? Yeah, dude. I know that is, but maybe I'm thinking of some, who was the woman who was married to the lead singer of Coldplay? Oh, that's not Kate Blanchett. Gwyneth Paltrow. Yeah. Okay. Forgive me, camera. Yeah. I confused the white women in Hollywood. Maybe he'll edit it out. Is it Gwyneth that thinks she's middle class? I think it was Gwyneth Paltrow. Cause when it was the one that made the product that made the candle, it smells like her vagina. I think that's who it is. I think that's who that is. That's middle class. Yeah. I have 18 of them. She's middle class for sure. Um, all right, let's see. Is it time? Is it time? Is it time? It's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. What I think one thing, the thing is, is I think there needs to be a part two because I know you're coming. Okay. Yeah, please. Cause there's some stories in my head that are rattling around that we didn't talk about. If you think about it, we've, this is probably the longest podcast we've ever done. We talked the least about religious traumas. Well we were actually talking about it outside when you were going peepee in the household. This is the third time we've probably gone peepee on this cat. I used the litter box. Yeah. This is our new kitten. I peed on the cat. Yeah. How was your, how was Jordan? He took a shit in our kitten's litter box. I took a shit in the litter box and turned up your thermostat to 92 and left. The dog's just in there. I ate your ramen. Yeah. Anyway, no more cup of noodles. I was saying that it's nice to have a podcast for us or just more of like one that's not so, uh, like, you know, harsh, harsh. Yeah. Yeah. And there's something about having someone that from our childhood we can all just shoot the shit. Because like I said so many times, like, uh, we take this so seriously, but I think that one of the responses that Zach and I for each other have experienced just literally having so much animosity in our relationship, most of our lives and getting in the most brutal fights ever drunk and whatever with each other. Oh, you guys like throw hands? Oh yeah. A couple times. I mean, I don't have to bring up more and more, you know, but Zach shattered his hand in eight different places. Punching a brick wall. I saw posts. Yeah, man. Yeah. Our trauma came out in a weird way. How many, how many shows when we were DJs together, did you break your hand punching his rock hard abs? What do you refer to that brick wall? You talking about this washboard? No, I legit punched a brick wall. I punched a brick wall at a bar. Um, because of me, because of Nate. Yeah. He wasn't because of me. He, we, we know how to push each other's buttons. Um, and we drank a lot and I was good shit. Like if I told you how much I drank that night, you'd be like, and you lived. It was, we would drink, we raged. Um, and so I was pretty, I was like coming back from a blackout. It was like three in the morning and he just said the right things. And I reacted the right way to make it worse than he said the more right things. Then I was like, fuck you. And I was out leaving the bar. I'm like, I just got to hit something. I'm going to hit this wall. And it was just, the worst choice you can make is like, I heard it. I was wanting to go get a lift, an Uber. And I literally heard like a, yeah, no, no, no pain. Yeah, no pain. No dude. I heard a security guard. No, everyone else knew I hurt myself. I was so in shock at that point. The second I hit, it was like shattered and my pinkies were down here. I didn't even realize it dude. And so I'm sitting outside on this wall, just so infuriated with Nate and my, my boy Adam comes out and he's like, sober, sober, sober can be. He's like, Zach, that was really dumb. And I was like, yeah man, I don't know why I did that. He's like, no, no, no. Yeah. Look at your hand dude. And I looked at it and I was like, Oh my God. I'm like, what have I done? And then you came out furious. Like, why would you? And I'm like, Nate, take me to the hospital. And everything ended at that point. You're like, okay, we hated each other and there's like, Oh, Nathan's not going to get another one of their fights. So all their friends were like, would freak out. And then I come back. Zach's actually hurt and he's sitting on the ground and he's like, Nate. And I'm like, let's go. Oh yeah, let's go. I take him to the ER. I have video from all of that little, you know, then there's our father who that unconditional love is there. You know, he shows up at the ER. I have him on camera from that night too. And he's just like, the boys are fighting again. We did fight a lot back then. Luckily, since alcohol has kind of been taken out, we don't fight as much. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't. It's been completely taken out from me. Yeah. I had a really hard time with anger. Um, most of my life until I fucking dealt with it, like started to deal with it like four years ago. I mean, with my wife, she, the second, I think it was the second or third fight that we had where, you know, like none of us are perfect. Her and I used to rage like crazy together. We'd black out, have a blast. And it was like one out of 10 times, I'd lose my mind and some anger would come out, some insecurity. Nobody understands me. Everyone's against me. The world is against me. And this victimized anger that's never been truly dealt with would come out. Do you feel like you're wrapped in like caution tape? All right, everybody. It's all about love. I hate to be so cliche, but literally my wife looked at me one time and was like, I'm going to leave this house right now. And, um, if you don't get your shit together, I'm leaving you, but I will be back. And it was like rare people do that where they're like, you're an asshole. You have issues, but I love you more than that. So there's like chances that I'm going to give you to figure this out. Cause I know you're just a person. Yeah. And so my wife was kind of an example of like, I'm not going to abandon you, but you need to have some time alone to think about what you've done. Yeah. And then she came back and it was during that you were over that day and I like was like, um, I have to figure my shit out immediately. Like potential awesome life that I'm trying to build is going to be gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why I'm sober from alcohol. I'm, you know, I, and I miss having a drink here and there, but I've been, it's like two and a half years now since I've had a sip. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm so far removed from it. It's just kind of like, yeah, no, I've never liked the way it's gone. Yeah. Never, never once. It just seems like you didn't deal too much with the substance part of life. No, it didn't. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we, I. Well you should start smoking a lot more weed. Yeah. It does you really well. As long as it's indica. You're just like, you're like what I experienced, like Zach was saying everyone has to experience their own version of that. And it was like, I was like 16 when I like did edibles and smoked and was like, he went through all of that at a very young age. See now knowing like going through it, knowing it was illegal, there's no way I would have been like, I see no, no. It's like I'm in my house, there's my wife, my son's in bed. We're watching a love on the spectrum. Like dude, let's get fucking high. Like it was all good. But if it was like, I'm 17 I had to get it from some dude, you know, I'm like, it's shady. I would have been like, Jesus doesn't like this. You know what I mean? Like, like I guess in my head I'm like, there's, I'm not doing anything wrong. You know what I mean? You can call the fire department and they're like, you'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not going to be like, call the police. We have a drug dealer. Yeah, exactly. And that's how it was. I was arrested three times for smoking weed before it was legal. You were arrested? Arrested three times. Arrested? Yeah. I was put in the back of a cock truck. Do you have a mug shot? No, I was never, I guess, well, let me rephrase this. Being a white male, they always let you go. Oh yeah. Okay. That's called privilege, baby. Well, as long as they, did you have to give up the weed? No, because we'd always throw it and they'd smell it and they'd be like, here's the deal buddies. We're going to get your life. We're going to let you guys go with, you know, also, we're not going to look under the car. Being a PK, you could use the pastor's kid card. Oh, cops did like pastor's kid. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, Hey, my dad, the amount of privilege I had in my life and with like cop shit. Um, but I enjoyed that. Like what you're saying is like, you like, we're like, dude, if this is like, if this is night safe, if this isn't okay, I'm not doing it. Yeah. Right. I was the type that was like, you're telling me that's dangerous and against the law and my parents think it's up the devil. Yeah. No, let's give you some of that. No, no. Right. No, no, no. I was polar opposite. Like that mentality for me got me into, and I've said this again so much on the cast is that that's the only way I knew how to break free from this like way of things. Sure. Yeah. It was like, okay, anything out of black and whites, evil and wrong and scary. Right. So I got to do it to like learn it. So there's like plenty of sexual trauma because of those decisions. You know, doing psychedelics as a 17 year old or a 16 year old isn't always the safest option when you're, when you have religious trauma, anxiety, depression, or ADHD and all of a sudden you do shrooms or acid and then you're like, your anxieties through there, you lose your mind. Yeah. You know? And so then I had to like go through like all of these horrific experiences with that. Nathan used to tell me that he liked that feeling of anxiety cause it made him feel alive. Oh yeah. See, I feel alive enough. I want to feel dead. Yeah. Oh dude. Yeah. Like, yeah, no, no, no, no. Like that's what I'm saying. Like anytime people are like, talk about uppers and stuff, I'm like, fuck that. Yeah. Like I, Hey, take some of my blood. It's probably cocaine. Like I'm up dude. Like don't, don't even trip about that. Yeah, no, I, I need, cocaine's also like, no matter like the, the, I feel like I just got so lucky with my like teenaged self trying different things because cocaine was such a massively used substance in all of like everywhere in life, everywhere you can find cocaine of any age. Yeah. Depending on the party scene. Yeah. Um, and so you're going to run into it at some point. Sure. And like, you're going to, and like, it's funny cause cocaine, so widely used and cocaine was the scariest drug I'd ever tried in my entire life. Oh yeah. Cause every time I would do it, I'd have like two minutes of like, this is why people do it. And then I'd have like an hour of just longer dude, like over, like the worst anxiety of my life. Yeah. Yeah. Not, not, not, not, not, not like chic anxiety. And my friends would be like, like having the time of their life. And I would just be like, God, it must be like so amazing to not have anxiety. But at the time I'd be like, I'm really lucky to be having this anxiety. And that's, I didn't, it's, I did not see cocaine use till I was, I'm 37 till I was like 35, 36. Yeah. I saw it. And I'll never forget it. I saw the guy do the line and he like does it. And then he's all like, he's all, like that. And I go, Hey, Hey buddy. Hey, you know that sound you're making? That's the sound your body makes when it doesn't want you to do something. Stop doing cocaine. And he was like, Oh no, bro, I got it. Like it's fucking, it's tight. And I was like, it's not like, like, do you want some? Fuck no. Like, no dude. No, I'm fucking good. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, yeah, that, that kind of stuff. Like my, I think my mom and dad worried about like getting into the tattoo scene. Like, you know, those things would be readily available. Like you walk into the test shop, do a line, do a tattoo. No man. I, they didn't fuck with me. They're like, no dude, Jordan doesn't fuck around. Like he doesn't, he doesn't party. He doesn't, he doesn't go to the bars. He doesn't course with this. I just was like, I do my art. I clean the bathrooms. I leave by, I'm going to go play halo. I'm outta here. I was very, just like, I was happy in that, you know, and I, I just, I didn't want to get lost in the sauce, I guess. You know what I mean? Cause like I also like, I'm also someone who knows, like, I'm like, if it is good, I'll do it. Like don't think I'm like holier than that. Like I'll fucking do it. It sounds like you've just had, and we can give credit to your parents as much as we want, but it seems like this is just who you are. Yeah. And like, I know your siblings are their own version of however they were raised. Like it's just sounds like you've had this insane clear headedness or self awareness. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I'm blessed about it or I feel very lucky. When in my head I was just like, I'm just walking. You know, I didn't, I just did that concept of like being able to see somebody do a line of Coke or smoke a cigarette and then seeing the effects their body has on it and you being able to be like, you know, the body probably doesn't want that. That's why it's rejecting it. Like I didn't have that thinking. Well, like I'm with the opposite. Well, like it's been good shit. Well no, like if he fucking did the line and was like, Oh, it feels like I'm getting my dick sucked right now. I'd have been like, yeah. But when he goes, I was like, Oh no, I don't want that. Fuck you dude. Like, no, it wasn't sexy. No. Right. Nobody doing cocaine is sexy. No, it was gnarly. It's really not good. It was gnarly. I was like in, Oh dude, he would not go to sleep. At one point I was watching like King Kong on his TV and I feel some rattling around my feet and I'm like, look down. He's like trying to take my shoes off. He's like, just get comfy bro. I was like, get away from me. Coke Gollum. Like fuck you dude. Yeah. I was like, get away from me dude. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. We still talk to you. He's fucking awesome. But yeah, it's just like, I love the guy. I love him. But uh, it was wild. I was like, why am I here? I don't want to be here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I would just try to set myself up for success. You know, I didn't want to like do that. It's just that self-awareness man. If I could make, I probably would have made all the same to see. I don't know. I don't think I would have. I don't think I had the self-awareness to know what was right or wrong. Oh sure. And it, cause I don't really necessarily to this day, like I don't think there is such thing as right or wrong. Oh yeah. I think that's why I was so confused cause there was only right or wrong. Do you want to know what it actually kind of comes from? It comes from, comes from a little bit of fear in that I don't trust the person if I threw up that they would turn my head. Do you know what I'm saying? Like if I got blackout drunk with you, I would be like scared that if I threw up, you wouldn't like, that's like that. You wouldn't save my life. So why would I do it? You know what I mean? It's like, I don't. And that's kind of, it's more, maybe it's more negative. Maybe it comes from a more negative space. I don't want no more. I don't trust you other human. Yeah. To get party, to party with you. That's interesting. Cause I, cause I, I would have, cause I would like to party whatever, you know, who wouldn't, you know, we're human. But at the end of the day it came down to like a trust thing. Like I don't trust you to get loose with any of you, any of you people. Yeah. And I hope that doesn't come from a, uh, a part of like, you know, being Christian and being like, I'm always right. We're into the trauma. And that's what we call religious trauma. The shortest episode is like two minutes long. That's, that's, I think where it comes, maybe I should look into that. Like it comes, it comes more from a distrust of my fellow man. Maybe as far as like partying. Yeah. Like I would, I think it might actually just to cut, cause I know your family, I think it might come from more of the, your dad was really skeptical of anyone that, like you said, gave him that bad feeling or like said something that was like, that's fucked up. He was instantly like, well then we're not going to be around. Yeah. We're not. Yeah. We're moving it. Yeah. No, not allowed. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, it's, it was hard. It was hard to be like, yeah, let's get high cause you have my best intent in mind. It's like, no, you're blitzed out of your mind. Like how can you, you know what I mean? So, it just, I could talk myself out of anything. Like when I first went to high school, they saw how big I was. They were like, bro, varsity, no problem. You want to be on the team? And I was like, in my head I was like, yeah, I'd be fucking sick except because I'm so big, some dude's going to hit me from the side and break my fucking leg cause take down the giant. So I talked myself out of it. I was like, no, fuck that shit. I don't trust, I don't trust them to be good sports. Yeah. You were way too smart. And also I joined drama cause you know, you could hug girls and shit. I was hoping for a kissing scene so bad. Not that I'd have the balls to do it. Oh, Oh fuck. I know we've gone so long. Maybe just make it two episodes. No, but, uh, there was this one chick, I'll just, I'm going to lay it out here. I don't give a fuck. I'll tell you the most embarrassing story in my life. I'm at high school and this chick comes up to me, a beautiful girl. She comes up to me and she's like, Hey Jordan, here's my number. My dumb ass first thought is I have a homework project together. Like I was just so innocent. I'm just like, what? Uh, thanks. Didn't hit me till like the next two periods that I was like, Oh, she's giving me her number dude. Oh fuck yeah. So I get home, I'm so, so stoked. Like that, that walking home, I was like floating on clouds dude. I was like, Oh yeah dude, I got a girl's number. I call her up and we just chitchat and at that time I lived in a house, but there was this, sounds like so fucking hillbilly. There was a shed that they had like remodeled into a room. So I had like an apartment by myself, dude. So I had like a fridge and a futon and shit. And I'm like, dude, I'm fucking, I feel like every place you guys lived, you had a little, Becky had one at the other house. So it didn't, you know, it was always just like, you know, but so I was out there and we talked for like hours and then she just like hit me with it, dude. She's like, yeah dude, like I just wondered, like, you know, I saw you and I was just like, man, I just wonder how like you fuck, you know what I was just like, I don't, I was like, what the fuck did you just say? And she's like, Oh yeah, you know, just you're really attractive and blah, blah. And like, like she, like she had done this before. I, this was my first time a girl had ever ever shown interest in me. And I'm like, what's happening? And she instantly went to fifth base. She was D T F you know? And she goes, she's like, how hard? Cause I was like describing my room and how it was like separated from the house dude. And I was like, Oh shit. I've, she probably thought like I was, Oh fuck, fuck. And she's like, she's like, she's like, Oh, how hard would it be for me to sneak over? And at the time we lived at a dog can, I was like super hard. There's dogs. Spotlights, a helicopter, you'll never make it. And she's like, no, no, it'll be all right. I can get over there. And I was like, and I was like, Oh, you know what? I'm going to pull the rip cord. I'm going to say it. I'm a fucking Virgin. I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to embarrass myself so that I was ready to take the ridicule like over this situation. I'm a Virgin. I've, I've, I've kissed girls, you know, like playground shit, but never like really made out with a girl. I've never like gone down on a girl and dude, dude, she's like, baby, I'll teach you. And I just was like, I was like, I'm Sampson and you're Delilah. I was like 16. This was at Windsor high, dude. I was 10th grade, you know, before we moved to, uh, sounds like a cool girl. Oh, she was, she was, she was very, um, like Reggae on the river kind of girl, you know, very California. And I just, uh, uh, I, I'll never, it's like such a weird experience to have, you know, and just be like, and you guys have talked about it. Cause like growing up religious, you kind of don't know how to like navigate dating a little bit of a fear of sex, a fear of sex. Well, but my fear of sex came from an idea of I, that was an adult thing that once you did it, you pay taxes. Like that's it. It's like, it's like playing soldier in the backyard. It's over. You're done. You're done motherfucker. So I was like, I don't want it. I see how hard my parents work. I saw your parents were, I was like, I don't want any part of this adult fucking life. So I held it. I was a late bloomer, dude. I didn't lose it till 19 bro. I lost mine at 16 or 17. I think it was 16. I lost mine at 11. What was his name? David. Zach has a special drama for us that he's been holding out for 76 episodes. This brought to you by Bluechew. Hey guys, have you ever tried to molest a kid? We're all joking here because literally on our podcast, you know, we recently had a guest on that came playing about sexual abuse in Cowrie Chapel and you can pause this right now. Cause if you're here for too long, go check out that episode. It's way shorter than this one. Um, no, no more direct fucking. Um, and yeah, anyway, I know we got to wrap up, but yeah, that and I just pulled the rip cord and she hit me with baby, I'm going to teach you. And I just, I don't even remember how to teach you. No, fuck. No, you didn't let her fuck. No, fuck. No. Oh dude. Yeah. I was like, I was like, uh, literally like I was like, nope, she's going to kill me. I'm gonna get my eyes cut out. I'm Sampson like no fucking way dude. And I, and that's just, and luckily we moved to Lake County like two months later. So I just fucking was like avoiding the fuck out of her. Yeah dude. Oh dude. And anytime we like made eye contact, she would just give me the biggest smile. You know, she's so sweet. You know? But I was like, you're trying to destroy me. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. It makes you wonder if that's a little religious trauma too from your past. I think, well, I, well, I think it's my fucking fault for not being like, yo dad, how do I fucking date? You know what I mean? Because, well, I mean, I did that and that didn't go well. Oh, well I never asked. I never asked. You wouldn't have known if you didn't. I definitely didn't ask either. Did you ask dad how you date? Like how you talk to girls, how you do all that stuff? I think that we'll just, if we're relating me compared to like you, cause I know your past and now hearing yours, I mean, girls were on my mind and boys, right? I just didn't really know. I like didn't think. I was hoping you'd say that. I had that in the chamber for days, dude. I was like, please say something about it. Dad, dad didn't give me the opportunity to not talk to him about every little detail. I talked to dad about everything, but the things that weren't allowed, weren't talked about. There were just opportunities to talk about other things. And so I was, I have a kid that was like, not allowed to date, you can't go to dances. So I would like sneak these things. So like I went to like, I went to a school dance with a girl, but we met there. So I wasn't allowed to go to the girl. So like, and then, but she was a Mormon and then she felt really guilty about dancing with me all night. Yeah. That Mormon guilt. And I was like, come on, I guess there's worse religious trauma than what I'm going through. I heard a rumor that they don't have like sex vaginally. They do anal. So they don't like, Hey, when I said that, when I heard that, uh, Hey, I'm moving to Utah, bro. I just want to know, do you guys party? I'm opening up a new shop in Utah. Yeah. I'm opening, dude, we, I was tattooing this guy and he was like, he's like, Hey, I'm from North Carolina, highest rate of teenage brides in the country. And I'm like, Whoa, the guy, my mentor, he's, he fucking stops tattooing. He goes, Jordan, pack up your shit. We're moving to North Carolina. And the guy did not think it was funny dude. And I was like, dude, lighten up, man. We're just fucking around. Come on. Fuck dude. Yeah. Yeah. He's all pack up your shit. Oh my God. I got a pee. Yeah. We're getting hot. Yeah. We're going to go, we're going to go ahead and pause here. Um, she's, we're back. And uh, why are you, why are you here? Brotherly love, dude. Um, you know, let's just jump into it. Uh, let's go over to the game cam. Game cam, game cam. I almost kissed you. Game cam, game cam, game cam, game cam, game cam, game cam, game cam. You just did. First ever three way game cam. First way three way. I'm honored. Uh, here in the North Carolina podcast, uh, we believe in clinical with your inner child. And so what we used to do as kids and we used to go to church all the time after church was play Mario Kart. So that's what we do here on the moral combat podcast. We've never played with a guest. And so, uh, video games, uh, one of the things that Jordan Dolby, um, demanded was in order to come on our podcast, he had to do the game cam with us, which is very much fitting because if you heard anything from our past, this is all the use of duty. Oh dude. It was just after church was just Mario Kart. What's funny is when the second Nate told me that you want to do the game cam. I was like, well, that's going to start a trend. And now other guests are going to want to do the game cam. And we're going to have to figure out a game cam. Yeah. I hope it's this awkward every time. I like it. I can't believe you're sitting on the studio. Is not set up for three way. This is just mine and Zach are the only ones that makes, we love each other, but today we're going to be sweet love with Jordan. We're going to three P game and we're going to do battle. Wait, are we all choosing original characters? Cause I always chose. So that's okay. I always chose Yoshi. Snuck it. You better talk into that. Mike. I'm trying to hear you. Oh, who is it? There we go. I got it. I got it. I got it. Wait, hold on a minute. We're three of this whole time. I thought I was three. Oh my God. You took Yoshi. I guess I have to be done and I'll be the biggest target. You fucks. We're not playing this, but based on real life. Um, the last episode, Zach kicked my ass. No, it was a really close game. Was that a fat joke? It was, it was. What are you going to do about it? I'm going to kick your ass. Your ass is grass and I'm here to smoke it until I call the ambulance. All right, route best out of three. Here we go. Gentlemen. Fuck. How do you go? Yeah. So figure out the controls. Yeah, I remember. Is it? Oh, wait, we are playing on the switch. Oh shit. Zach. Anything that you say, we're not really hearing this. You talking to the mic. Okay. I mean, I have to turn my entire head to talk. Do it. Do it. Oh dude. This sucks. Oh my gosh. I just wasted my red shell. Could have had that. Yeah. So if you're listening right now and you've made it this far, you can hear our math mouth breathing. Thank you so much for being here. Still checking out the game cam. Me and Zach are sharing a seat. They can see you dumb fuck. We've always said that if people just listen to the game cam, Oh no, no, no, no. We are like, Oh, we got shells. Oh dude. Wow. Oh shit. No, I give up my defense. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. One time after church, we went to a Chinese restaurant and the music was playing and Nate was always really into music and he could hear the music. And when it became time. Oh, I hit the star. I hit the star. Yeah, dude. Nate was, I could see he was into the music and he was like, he was like, Oh yeah, it's cool. And I was like, yeah, hell yeah. And the waiter came and it was Nate's turn to order. And right when Nate was about to say like chow mein or whatever, he the waiter goes, Oh, no, wait, wait, favorite part. And we kept saying that to each other. Do you remember that, Nate? No, we said that for years to each other. Anytime someone started talking, you know, wait, wait, wait, favorite part. You remember that, dude? Hell yeah. The sad part of our cast. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. It's true. Privilege. Privilege of white assholes. Oh, you suck, dude. I was just about to get my tail on! You dick! Yeah! Oh, no! I was watching, I was watching your screen. This is it for you, Nate. I'm alive. No, no, no, no, no. How'd you get a star? This game's rigged. Oh, dude, it's always been rigged. No. Oh, yes. This is my chance. Where's Yoshi? Come here. No! Yeah, Bowser! Y'all know I got that red shell in the pocket. Oh, watch out! No! Oh, Yoshi's out! Oh, a bomb? Remember the bombs? I thought you were a bomb. You've never had a bomb on this show yet. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Take him out for me. No, no. Oh, dude, no. You guys are on the other side of the map. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm waiting for Nate. I'm waiting for Nate! You dick! Yes! I didn't have to do anything. Oh, you jerk. Round one, toad. OK, god damn it. That'd be me. Thank you very much. It's tricky with three people. I love it. Whoo! Oh, let's go. Half the chairs going up my asshole right now. I kind of like it. Ew! And I burned out. Unbelievable. I just made Jordan very uncomfortable. No, it's too much. Yes! Oh, I'm sorry. Nope, I hit you with mine. Yes! Oh, no! Yes! Yes! Come here, Yoshi! Come here! Come here, Yoshi! Come here! Yeah! You're the iOS star, you bitch! No, I just wasted that red shell out of your pants! Oh, no, no, no, you dick! You dick! Come here, come here, come here. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Come here, you. No, no, no, no. Come here, come here, come here, come here. You're the iOS star! Oh, thank God for the burnout. Oh, dude. No! Yoshi, no, no, no. Yes! Boom! No! There's one more. Let's see, I'm going to win with three. This is going to be it. I'm going to take it home today. No, you're not. Come here, buddy. Come here, buddy. Oh, no! Oh, God. Oh, no, no. No! I'm done. Oh, yeah! I knew I'd be toast! Come here! He's behind you! Yeah! Oh, you kid. Wow. You did it. Let's play. Come on, let's play. Go right into me. Come here. I got it. Oh, I got caught in the corner. Where's the bomb going to go? Where's the bomb? It's going right for you. He sees one balloon. This is it. This is my win. No. Come here. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. You got to get him. I'm trying, dude. Believe me. I'm trying. Where are you? I'm going to come back. I'm going to bring him back. Bring him back. Bring him back. Yes! Take it. Take it. That was some Mad Max shit. Yeah, do it again. Do it again. Witness! Oh, no. I'm sorry. Oh, no. I hit the ball. It's okay. Oh, my God. I'm going to throw up. Oh, you took one of the shells and I'm in the fucking lava. No. Zach, where are you going? Oh, my God, dude. Why are you running? Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. No, no, no. Yes. Oh, no. Can you imagine playing this with your kids? Oh, shit. How did you get that? Oh, shit. No, no, no, no, no. Yes! No, no, no. One to one, baby. No! Oh, shit. Oh, dude. High five? Yeah. That's my first high five of the cast. Hell yeah, dude. Holy shit. Holy shit. That was the win. That's the win. Zach. He swapped us. Let's finish the cast. Go hop in Jordan's chair. Okay. Are your eyes burning? Yeah. It's hot as fuck in here. No, it's because whenever we play, we feel like because we look at the TV so intensely because we get so into it. Oh, yeah. We never blink. Oh, gotcha. So we're like, eyes are always bloodshot watering like. Nice. Wow. Look at that score. I love this chair. Look at that. It's a nice chair. It's a nice fucking chair. It is a nice chair, dude. Yeah. This is what I need for my studio. Oh, dude. I spend a lot of time sitting and drawing, dude. I got to have a good chair. Yeah. This is chill. That was really fun, Zach. I really like playing with you, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No problem, bro. Yeah. And thanks for. There's another great episode with you, brother. Thank you. I like drawing and I like dancing. It's the money of Jordan. You know, you got really straight lines. Pretty straight. Pretty straight. Oh, shit. How do you end something so great? You don't. You don't. I don't know how to end this. Roll the credits that I won. You just say roll the credits. Yeah. Yeah. You just go. Let's get a pizza, I guess. I don't know. He doesn't eat pizza. No. Look at him. That's not true. It's like too much salt. I'm doing dieto right now. Now I have to blank that out. He'll put fucking DMT in the Y. I was going to be pointing that out now. Thank you everybody so much for coming to the moral combat podcast. Hands down the worst episode we've ever done. This has been episode 72. It's definitely not been 72. Well, right now it's going to be 72. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Thanks, everybody. Jordan, I love you. Love you for being here. It's so much fun. Yeah, dude. You will be our return guest. Oh, I would love to do it. You don't have a choice. You don't have a choice. No, I'm coming back. Well, because that can't happen again. You know, I'm going to fucking... That was unacceptable. We didn't even win one. Dude. He just wiped us. I think if you re if you rewind this and look back at it, you'll probably see me biting my bottom lip. I was very focused. I know you really wanted to win, dude. I could feel it. I want my wife to be proud of me. She's not. She's not. No, she will be proud of me. That wasn't enough. If I lose the game cam, what's the point? She's like marriage is over if you keep losing that game cam. She did say that. I don't want you losing to your brother anymore. I was like, I totally agree, Bang. I totally agree. You're all noted. Noted. Love you, too, hun. Anyways, thank you, everybody, for being here. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for being on that podcast. Jordan, we love you. Love you, Jordan. Good luck out there. Yeah, always. You know, I don't really need it, but I don't believe in it. But no, I'm just... Yeah, of course. Thank you, dude. Thank you, everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye bye. That's wonderful. I love it. Bye. That's too good. That's so good, bro. Oh my God. That's a wrap. What'd you guys think? Was it all right?