Neurodivergent Threads: Weaving History, Communication & Growth

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In this episode, I sit down with Lucy, a brilliant autistic young adult with a deep love of history, for a conversation that flows effortlessly—because when neurodivergent minds connect, there’s no shortage of things to talk about. We dive into storytelling and its impact on learning, how we perceive communication, and the power of diversifying your skills. Along the way, we explore evolution and the undeniable presence of autistic people throughout history. This episode is packed with thoughtful insights, personal perspectives, and plenty of moments that remind us why these conversations matter.

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Transcript

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Hello one and all. Welcome back to the Late to the Party, a podcast and all, as I kept saying, the event is Late to the Party. That's a podcast about IBS, but I digress. I want to make this short because it's an extended chat that I have today and I just, oh boy,It's been a while, it's been a while for me to publish because I've been tired and the event has been done. It was just an incredible success. It was amazing. But now the audio, I've been trying to publish this, has got all these little areas and it's taking me forever to fix. So I thought, I'm just going to have to put that on to the side and focus on another interview that I did. that doesn't have those issues. So that's what we're doing today. And as is my want, I've got straight into the chats without actually introducing Lucy at all. So we're going to have Lucy do the introductions for us. So let's not waste any more time. Let's just get on with the chat. Yeah, just, yeah, I'm still recording, so that's right. I want to put this at the start. I want to put this at the start. I think it's hilarious because, yeah, I literally, Eloise literally just said, said something quickly about, oh, this person wants to come on and whatever. And I kind of just went yes and then completely forgot about it and started building up this story in my head like, oh, you are Eloise's friend, but no, you're not Eloise's friend, you're Eloise's friend's sister. Yes. And, but none of that mattered. Yeah. I was like, I sort of said it as a joke. I was like, oh, like if he wants a uni age student on. I'm happy to talk, I love talking about autism. And you were like, yeah, and I was like, excellent. It was a very autistic exchange, I reckon. Well, I think it was. So I thought that was funny, like you're walking, literally walking in, and you were lucky I even remembered your name. Yes. Because it was on the phone. Yeah. At least I put that down. That's an important thing for me to do, put name, actual names, not just leave the numbers there. No, yeah. And because it's a Beatles song. Lucy as well. That makes it so much easier. Yeah. Is that why you were named Lucy at all?No, they just... Yeah, I know. I know. It's annoying. Yeah. Alright, who are you?I'm Lucy. I'm a, I'll just say friend of the podcast, I guess. I was diagnosed at age 14 with autism. I very much like history, that's like my special interest. And I guess my purpose for being here today is to just chat about being autistic and being like a young autistic person in the world right now. And now as a young adult. Yes, now as a, yeah, the transition from like childhood to adulthood, but also being autistic. Yeah. Yeah. And that won't change, it's going to keep going. Oh yeah. Like, I think it gets about 36, I reckon a lot of people, and I'm only thinking from aa music perspective, because that's all I do. But it's true. It's also true of everything else. People stop at certain point and go, that's the music I love. It was in my 20s and that's it. But it's, it says something more as well about I give up learning now. Yeah. I'm done. Who I am is who I am. And I've never been able to understand that. I hate that so much. Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah. So you'll be fine. Yeah. You just, I really, I wanted to start by asking some cool history thing, because you said you're into history. I want to hear something that at the moment that you're like... Like into. Hyper focused on or into, yeah. Okay, so in my archaeology class in uni, we had to... like later class, like a class discussion, and we have to have an activity. So my thing that I had to do was, it was ancient Assyria, and there was one king who had an inscription about like taking over like a place in Judah. And then there was the account from the Bible. Yes. And it was so different. So I made the class like do a, like act as their PR people, as in like,So the inscriptions were so different and you couldn't tell who was right or wrong. So I had to be, so my thought was, okay, I'm going to bring this into the modern context and then like make everyone act as though, like this is a huge controversy and you've got to give a public statement and you've got to like make the other person look as terrible as possible. So you're talking about in the Bible, you're talking about scripture and Bible, the writings that they sourced for that. And there's another source somewhere else relating to this particular. Yes. What's the king's name?Sennacherib. Welcome to the Late to the Party History Channel. Sennacherib, the king of Assyria from 705 to 681 BC, is a significant figure in the Bible, particularly in 2 Kings, 2 Chronicles and Isaiah. best known for his military campaign against Judah during King Hezekiah's reign, where he captured fortified cities but failed to take Jerusalem. So the biblical account describes him in a negative way, arrogant, his threats against Hezekiah. But then there was some divine intervention and an angel struck down 185,000 Assyrian soldiers overnight. That's nice. forcing Sennacherib to retreat. So anyway, later he was assassinated by his own sons, and it's sort of seen nowadays as a demonstration of God's power and protection of his people. But there's also a famous poem from 1815 by Lord Byron. The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold, and his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold, and the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea. When the blue waves roll nightly on deep Galilee. That's A stanza from the destruction of Sennacherib. And he like took over a kingdom in Judah and like, you know, like blocked all the like anything from coming in and made it really hard for the king there to Hezekiah to likemanage anything. I know that name. Yes. But he couldn't, he couldn't do anything. That's so cool. So I did a little bit of like biblical study. Yeah. Back when I sort of became atheist and got obsessed with... Oh yeah. So there's a pipeline between like autism and atheism if you grow up Catholic, I reckon. There's... The amount of autistic people that I know, because I went to a Catholic school, all of them atheists or just don't believe in it. Yeah, Catholics do a really good job of turning people into atheists, I think. Absolutely, great conversion. But they also better, they're better than even public schools in that they actually usually give a good broader view of religion, even though they say, well, this is the real one, but they do give a better sort of more religious education overall. Yeah. But so the original scriptures, what languages were they in?Oh my god, one was in cuneiform, which is like, it's their own writing system, I can't really remember, and then the Bible's, like, it was translated. From Greek or like... Oh my god, Sumerian I want to say. I can't remember. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, we did a podcast, I did one years ago, about... There was me who was sort of an old hippie. I did spiritual stuff and I went through the whole gamut of Christianity and Eastern religion and whatever. And then I had a friend of mine who I used to look after. I was his carer, who's a psychologist. And then the other guy was previously full on religious, like really full on. And then he studied the Bible, became atheist andloved it, but he still studies the Bible. Yeah. You know, he just loved it. And so we discuss historicity and the various methods of how they come about learning these things. So it's not about the spiritual side, it was more about the... Yeah, I think people forget that like, the Bible is like a huge historical text. It's like, it's accounting for a lot of time, like regardless of if you believe it or not. There's some truth to what actually happened. That's been the problem. I think a lot of people who cling on to the religion say, well, that's true. That king's a real king. Yeah, so the rest of them. There's some other tests. Yeah, exactly. So therefore, no. No, there's nuance. Yeah. Well, when did you start getting into, like, just this sort of interest?I've always been, like, interested in history because I think, like,before I was even diagnosed with autism, I really, really liked knowing how, like the story of how people came to be. And I think history is just like the biggest story of how people came to be. Like I really liked hearing background stories on people that I liked or just like getting to know people that way. And I really, really like Horrible Histories, like any other autistic kid loved it. That's a great one. Yeah, and I was able tolike articulate all the stories really well, which was interesting at a young age. Like I remember I had like one of my pops friends was living with us and I, and I recounted a story about like a king who like got diarrhea or something like that. And he was so impressed that he got me the 5th DVD and I was like, well, this is what I want to do, I guess. Like if I can like, like, like continue a story or likeYeah, I think that's what I'm interested in, like that's why I'm interested in history, but it's it's interesting because we... part of history and part of learning about history is often told just by talking to other people, by telling stories. Before there was text, before we could write, we've been telling stories and there's, you know, there's dreamtime stories, there's, and all these different cultures have this. But telling stories is like really important andSo you're, it's interesting because you can be like a historian and look at the facts and delve into that, but being able to convey those stories is a very different kind of skill. Yeah, and because I think with, if you just solely rely on like written text or that sort of thing, it's always written by, like, in most cases, written by the victor of whatever happened. And it's like, if you actually listen to people, you'll get a personal experience as well as like, like, I guess as an example, like indigenous people, like if you just go by the facts of what Western people have written, you will not get the full story. But if you listen to them, you get like a pretty cool story, I guess. Do you listen to Blind Boy?No. Oh my god, you're just going to blow your mind. I'm going to write that down. I talk about Blind Boy all the bloody time and it's so annoying. I did my event, the live podcast. Yeah. And the next night I was supposed to be going to see a live podcast of Blind Boy, who's just the greatest. He's just the best podcaster and he's autistic, late diagnosed as well. But our cast got stuffed and I couldn't drive and I saw I just, I completely missed it, but he, I'll hear it anyway. But he's, he talks about this sort of stuff where he talks about history, but also, I'm trying to look at, think of the word, like,not fables, sort of fables, sort of, you know, stories that come from different cultures that tell stories of kings or poxes or myths, myths. That's what I was trying to say. He's starting to correlate and read these myths with modern science and particularly looking at nature and things that would have mattered back then as a, you know, and now today. So ecology, all that sorts of things. And he's finding all theseamazing links with stories that were told back then that were warning you perhaps not to kill a fox. And then, you know, us annoying ******* or whatever came along, screwed up the ecology, killed all the foxes and stuffed up the environment. And all of a sudden when the foxes go, there was a plague of rabbits, that kind of stuff. So he's, what he's saying is thatThat was the early science. These stories were the early science. They were warnings to say, don't do that because this is what's going to happen. But it was told as a story. And I like, I think the one thing I really, really like about, especially like a lot of Australian indigenous communities, it's like the information feels accessible to everyone. It's not like you have to be like a scientist to know, don't do this or like, you know, if you... Yeah, like it's just accessible to everyone, which I really, I think it's very underrated. It's underrated and it's underrepresented in schools. My take is we should be learning the language. One of the languages, depending where we are. And we should be learning about the stories, how they looked after the land. All those things are just missed. And that's why people are voting no on these sort of referendums, I think, because they don'tget to appreciate. They don't, yeah, they don't know. But also they a lot of the time don't want to know. It's like, I think, how could you not be interested in like one of the oldest civilizations?Like you're on the land of people who have been here for so long and have maintained it for so long. And we only got here like a couple 100 years ago and we've completely like destroyed it. It's like, we should be looking to them too. And we can. But one, I think the part of that is that we don't like being wrong. No, absolutely not. There's an element of either feeling guilt or being told you should be guilty. Yeah. Which I think is, you know, just it is what it is. But it's also about making it cool, making it interesting and cool for people. Like Horrible Histories, I think, did that. Yeah. We need to, I think, you know, we need to make liking this culture and understanding its culture cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? By really interesting stories and that sort of stuff. Yeah. I think that's how we can change people's minds by making it interesting and cool. Yeah. And okay. And it's hip to like. It's always, it was hip. Once we did the whole bloody same sex. Yeah. Referendum, it was hip at that stage. Yep. to be okay with that, you know?There was no bad feelings, there was no anger, and that's why it worked, you know?We just got to do the same thing, and man, I got angry. I was so angry, and I spent too much time arguing with people online and... About the referendum. Yeah, I mean, that was the first thing I've ever voted in. And I was like, I was so excited because I was like, oh, this could actually like lead to something, but I was like, nope, no. No, no, it was just people were so, are so stubborn because yeah, I just think they feel guilty and feel... Why should I feel guilty and all these other negative feelings?God, it ****** me off. Yeah. Now, I want to go back and... It's a bit more history, but I thought, but there's other stuff that you mentioned, you sent me on the phone. Yeah. One, I just had to tell you because I thought it was funny. Yes. One of the things I wrote down without, I just quickly wrote it down. The last one was advice, and this is how I wrote it. Advice for parents of autistic people who are entering childhood. Did I write that? No, you didn't. Oh, I was like. No, I'm entering childhood. I thought, that's a really interesting concept. No, I'm not quite. No, it's adulthood. Yes. Yeah. I, so I'm obviously a parent. Yeah. I did not get diagnosed until after the kids were born. Yes. And so I sort of denied it myself. I just, you know, I do my little checks and reads andI just thought, no, no, I can't, can't be. But I was, you know, I was masking my whole life. Oh yeah, you, there's no, I feel like also your perception of yourself is so different from how you actually present to other people. Like I would say before I was diagnosed, I was like, oh yeah, I don't think I'm like, I think I can hold a conversation pretty well, but I didn't know that I spoke in monotone a lot and couldn't make eye contact. Interesting. Yeah. So my perception was like, I'm like nailing this. No, no, I was not. Oh, so it'd be interesting if like you, did you try to record yourself and see what it sounded like?I didn't, but I remember doing speech therapy for the first time. So it was suggested to me and I was like, I don't have a stutter, like I don't need to go. And then Then my speech therapist was like, did you know you have to like go up and go down and inflict?And I was like, oh my god, why is no one, why did no one tell me this?Like I needed to know. Do you feel like you have to?No, it's, I don't feel like I have to. I just didn't know that you had, like people, like... That's, yeah, you just, yeah, you weren't picking that up. Yeah. It's interesting because I think maybe I learned that stuff really early. Yeah. I've got old cassette tapes of me as a little kid. Yeah. And they kept throwing me in front of a recorder. Okay. And I just sit there telling stories. Yeah. I think I taught myself that stuff by listening to, you know, other stories because I used to love listening to stories on vinyl. Yes. I've still got all these ones, like these old like Bambi and that sort of stuff. Oh yeah. And I think I learned that myself. Yeah. How to do all that stuff. And my mom's a singer, my dad was a singer. So there was all that sort of stuff. Maybe my obsession with music. Yeah, that probably would have helped. My parents are tone deaf, so like, you know, they wouldn't have helped in any way, I don't think. That's interesting. And so bass comes into it, like when, when did you start getting into that?I started in year,9 or 10 and it was in lockdown so I basically taught myself and I was like, oh my god. Wow. Yeah. What did they, what did your parents say?Did they like, were they like, why are you doing that?Oh, they really like music, they're just like bad at it. They're just bad at it. They're really, really enthusiastic about it, it's just that they don't have the skills to do it. But I did like dancing when I was younger, so I have a really, really good internal rhythm. So I could do it like fine. And bassy is rhythmic as well, so. But who are the bassists you know and like?I like Tina Weymouth from The Talking Heads. Oh, wow. Just because it's, her stuff's like, it's simple, but it like, it makes sense where it is. Yeah, absolutely. And I like Jaco Pistorius because he just, he just does whatever he wants. I'm like, that's cool. I'm trying to think of Stanley Clark is amazing. closer to the jazz side of things, but not really. It's kind of in the 80s, there was this adult contemporary jazz sort of vibe going on, which people liked. And he plays six string bass. Oh, yeah. He was, he was amazing. Yeah. I'm hoping I've got the right name. I think I do. Yeah. But for a while, they all started getting into like bass players. Yeah. And that sort of stuff. But see, I love Kim Deals and, you know, that sort of the Pixies. Yeah, I love Pixies, yeah. And who was the other one?I think for me, my favourite bass player has got to be Paul McCartney. Yes. Because of the way he picks the notes. Yes, he does, because he does like a muted, like, yeah, I think the way he plays it is very fun. Oh my god. Have you, you know the song, I Will?You know how much I need you. Yes. Do you know, have you listened to that and know what's going on?There's a bass line. I have to listen to it again to pick up what it, I haven't heard it in ages. There's a bass line, but it's not a bass. It's him singing the bass. Oh, interesting. That's like Seven Nation Army. It's not played on a bass, it's played on a guitar, but it's just like tuned down. I'm like, no one's, we need to talk about this guys. It's so cool. Isn't that amazing?Yeah. We'll play it afterwards so you can hear because it's just finding, hearing those notes. So do you find that you isolate bass when you listen to stuff?Yeah, and... I feel like once I started noticing it, it feels like weird to not have it in. Like if you take a bass out of a song, like a lot of people won't notice it there. And then when you take it out, it's like, oh, this feels weird. It feels naked. It does, yeah, it's a really important, and that relationship between the drummer and the, and you had a chance to do that because you, obviously you didn't get to... No, I didn't, I was in... Oh my god, I didn't know how to do anything. And then a teacher was like, oh, you should do this like workshop at Box Hill. And I was like, okay. And I went in, I didn't know how to do anything, but I made two songs with people and I was like, okay. Oh, is it the TAFE?Yes, yeah, yeah. That's why I wanted to go myself. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Did you find, how did you find doing the collaborations and stuff?Yeah, it was good. It was just like, I'd only been playing nine months. Okay. Which is insane for me to think about. Like even now, I probably wouldn't have like put myself out there to do it, but I'm happy I did it because it's like, well, I've made two songs, so like... And did you, did you write them and all?I wrote the bass lines, yeah. We all like wrote it together. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting, isn't it?Yeah. I don't know if I can ever do that. No, it's terrifying. But I was like 15 and I was like, okay, that looks okay. I say I don't know if I could do that mainly because I want to control. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I did, I've done little bandy things, but I've, yeah, it was sort of, it was before my diagnosis, it was before COVID. And, but yeah, I've, I've always struggled in a group sort of situation. I think you'd have to findexactly the right people. It's hard to find musicians I think who aren't autistic who will put their, put everything into it. Yes. You know?And so that's what I found difficult to getting people to say, well, you didn't practice. Yeah, that's like David Byrne, he's autistic and apparently he was so hard to work with because he had to control every little bit of it. But I'm like, fair enough, man. He did some good stuff. Have you read his book?No. I've got his book somewhere, I think. Yeah, I was giving his book. I have to, yeah, I keep giving all these books I forget to read. Yeah. I've got a lot of history books, by the way. I don't know if you've noticed. Yes, I have actually. Yeah, I've got some good ones. Yeah. What's the ones?What's the, there's some really popular ones. I, one of my favourite guys is, where is he? Hang on a second. No, not Sam Harris. Where the hell are they? Jared Diamond. I love Jared Diamond. Okay. They collapse and guns and I can't read properly with these. Gems, guns and steel. Jared Diamond's awesome. Yes, no, I've heard about that one. Yeah, yeah. And is it called the Third Chimpanzee?On the green one?Yes, yeah, yeah. That's an amazing read as well. Do you get into the history of people, of humanity and... Yeah, I did biology, like, I did like the year ahead of me's biology. So I was in year 11 when I was doing year 12 biology. And I did like evolution and all that. And I was like, that is so interesting. Like, it's just, it baffles me how, like, how much change there has been and how, like,how quick it is now, like how much we've evolved now compared to like it was really, really slow over a long period of time. Okay, so you're talking about like genetic drifts and that sort of stuff. And that would have been because of things like weather, the climate and I suppose more interactions maybe or like anything that's causingChange. Yeah, change. That's interesting. I hadn't really thought about that. It took so long. And then when we got it right, we've, you know, like, like technologically and like culturally, we've gone like, like that. The lactose thing is what gets me. Yes. No one wants to talk about the lactose thing. How am I lactose intolerant for one?And how did we deal with lactose so quickly? Yes, I can't get me around it. I know there's there's a there's another. one of the other guys, other than, oh God, come on. Bloody, the great, Charles Darwin?Darwin, yeah, no. What's the other guy?There was another guy around at the same time who sort of came up with a concept separately. Okay, of natural selection. Yeah, okay. But he sort of was more like, it was quicker, like there was a, it was a quick, and it can be inherited, like you can,you can learn something and you can pass that on to your child, you know, which doesn't obviously isn't the case. Yes. Hi, future Dan here. So, okay, I was getting confused and I was confusing all of us by my ramblings. What I was referring to is a French naturalist called Jean-Baptiste Lamarck. And Lamarckism is another sort of evolutionary theory. that he posited that said organisms can inherit acquired traits and pass them on to their offspring. But I read Matt Ridley's genome book. That's what turned me into an atheist. Okay, yeah. You know, I wanted to understand the genetics when Eloise was still in utero. Yes. And so I started reading up on that stuff and went, oh, wow. And it just went off for me. It's so interesting that like 1 mutation can like change everything. Like there was one, I watched a video of like genes that we like, they're still in our system, but they're not like active. Yes. And it was one that we could produce our own vitamin D. I'm like, oh. Oh, the amount of people that that would benefit, like all the people that don't get it off some, it's like, why would, why did our like DNA just like turn that off?It's so annoying. And it could have just been by accident. Yeah, no, it must have been. Exactly, like the chances of it... it's so fascinating how like one little thing can change like the whole course of history. That's it. Yeah. I'd love it. I've got to read it again because it's been so many years since I've read it. But the idea of some, some genes going on the right together, even though they're not necessarily related. Yeah. You know, I think that's quite fascinating. Like left-handedness is an interesting thing because my, my surname's Kerr and in Scotland, Kur-handed is like, that's a term for left-handedness. Because I thought all the Kurs, or most of the Kurs were left-handed, but I've soon looked that up and know it's not the case. It's because we fought left-handed, so they taught to be left-handed. Yeah, because a lot of people are taught to be right-handed. So it makes sense that way that it's the, you know, the reverse. Think of the advantage. As a sword fighter, like when they, that's what they were, the clan were hide guns to come in because how do you defend yourself against a bloody lefty? You don't know, your brain's not wired to or be trained to handle it, you know?I love all that stuff. Yeah. Have you done all your ancestry? No, we... we've got like some of it and I don't know if you can tell by looking at me, English, Irish, Scottish. Like we did and I've only just like we someone on my like mom's side made like a like a book of as much as I could get and it was it was really interesting like they came from IrelandAnd then I learned about, like, I knew obviously we'd come over here as like convicts and stuff. But then like we had the personal element of like a lot of the kids died on the way over and I was like, I forgot that that happened. Like, it was really interesting, but like, yeah. My dad's from New Zealand, but then his grandma is from England. So it's like, there's not much. That's true. There's Scots in New Zealand as well. A lot of redheads over there. Yeah, my cousin, yeah. Couldn't believe it. What the hell's going on here?Oh, okay. Well, lots of Scots. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. Well, that makes me wonder why you don't get into ancestry because there's that element of the things you're into. I would love to. It's just like I can't. I haven't. done like the test or anything. And like the only stories I have is like, my pop living in Southern Cross. So like I did my, I did a project in year 12. We were like told to make a creative story and I was like, great. I'm going to interview my pop. But he's like, he just told me ********. Like it wasn't interesting. It was funny though. Oh, it's a shame. Yeah. I did, I wrote a song about my grandmother, which after she passed away, because we discovered afterwards by a few videos I've got of them talking. And I don't know how I missed it, and it just baffles me, but her, she was going to be married to someone else. Oh. And he committed suicide the night before the wedding. Jesus. You know, and that's something obviously that was with her the rest of her life. And so I, you know, I wrote these, I wrote this song about that. I'll have to show you the lyrics and stuff later, because it's just,I love writing songs about, you know, thing, people, like other people, if you're connected. And my great, great uncle, the last cur from my great grandfather, the last one he had, what is it? He had a lot of kids. But this dude was a writer, a poet. And he would connect with the local Aborigines in the area, which was closer to the South Australia, but it was still in Victoria. And it was so interesting because he, we talked about like interpretation. He would, he would ask them some stories and I've got notes. I've taken photos of all the books. It was all at the State Library. Yeah, oh wow, okay. His books of notes and hispublished poems and so forth. He wrote little notes to the side. He was talking about how it was sometimes hard to get any stories out of people because they, you know, it's, you know, it's their stories. They don't necessarily want to hand them over. They've handed over the land without wanting to. But he did talk to them and he wrote interpretations of those stories from, and because he was Christian,It was, it had that element to it. Yeah. It's fascinating stuff. You know, we get all this information. So do you care about the, trying to get the truth of the history?What's the context of why they were writing the way they wrote it? Or are you more interested in finding a Interpretation is to make some modern meaning from it. I think it's interesting to, I like to see like why people wrote like that and what the context was about it, like... Like, I read Huckleberry Finn, and if you read that in a modern context, it wouldn't work, right?I tried, I tried with Henry, and then all of a sudden... He was like, whoa. Uh oh. I said, mate, I think we'll... But it's genuinely, like, if you put it in a historical context, it's like, that's pretty big for someone in that era to write about, like, a black person that isn't, like, villainized, you know?But I see a lot of people being like, that book's racist. I'm like, no, no, no. If it happened now, sure. But even a book can't be racist. It's like, that's not how that works. It's like the ideas it's presenting, sure, that might be racist now. But back then, that would have been like the antithesis of what was happening because it's like, you're giving voice to an African American man rather than just like, yeah. Yeah, you're talking about the injustices and language of the time, but he also was very forward thinking. He was humanistic. That's pretty progressive for the time. Like, it's just stupid that we're writing it off now as like, we can't read it. It's like, no, no, you can, but you just have to have that context. And you should. Yes. You absolutely should. His letters, I think I've got a book of all these letters. His letters are amazing. Yeah, letters from the earth. Yeah. Highly recommended you. Yeah. read that. It just, all these various letters he had to people and back then when you wrote letters, you know, it wasn't just a letter, it was, oh my God, these amazing back and forths and he talks about things like religion and that sort of stuff which are just so, whoa, at the time, no one talked about that sort of stuff. But I also think like, even if it, if he did believe in those stuff, I think it's still important to readthings like that because it's like, that's genuinely how people thought. Yes. I think if we just don't read that stuff anymore, it's like we're getting rid of all that history and it's bad history, but we've got to face like what happened. I think it's stupid to just like all the banning books in America. It's like, no, no, you're just erasing what happened and your responsibility in that. That's so dumb. And they're repeating. Yes. Because they don't, they haven't got a good... education system over there where they're learning history. They certainly don't learn history from any other country. No. But that's the problem. You're repeating history and we're seeing it again at the moment of a lot of uneducated people. And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's just they just don't have the access to it. Yeah, they just don't have it. So all of a sudden, we're going through the same **** all over again. And it's like, oh, I wish there was a book about this. Well, you ban them. There's so many about that sort of thing. There's a lot of, I've been... watching a lot of stuff about historians and historians who have a focus on finance and all money and that sort of stuff as well, talking about the way things are happening at the moment. And yeah, that's the same thing with all that stuff. You know, if you don't learn from when things haven't worked in the past, then you're just going to repeat them. And it's driving everyone insane at the moment. And yeah, we're dealing with such ignorance at the moment. but people don't like to be told they're wrong. You know, I've got a friend who's, it was absolutely fascinating. Okay, it was actually from someone I'd interviewed before and it was, it's a paper on the way that neurodivergent people think as opposed to, you know, neurotypical think. And it says, so a non-autistic person who belongs to a conservative political party may acknowledge that George Floyd's murder at the hands of an officer was a gross injustice, but refused to acknowledge or even talk about the systemic racism that contributed to Floyd's death and other black people's deaths at the hands of police. That non-autistic person may actually have many values that counter the social norms of their political party,Yet they rarely mention those values and will avoid looking at, talking about, or exploring how their political party contributes to anything that undermines their personal values. So I know, like this friend of mine is a good person, but when I go through his feed, it's all about the Democrats and how bad they are. But not once, not once. for years has he ever said anything bad about what a Republican's done. And he's ignoring all the **** that's going down right now and still posting about Democrats. Why is this guy going over there to save this person who was wrongfully imprisoned?Look at his track record with one instance. People's lack of introspection is crazy for me. It's a way that our brains are wide though. Like it's understanding how we think, why we think. And I think that's a big thing as well. Yes. Youknow. I love doing that sort of stuff that there's getting into, yeah, like the brain science and that sort of stuff. But who's got time? I think the ancestry stuff, the same thing I was going to say, like, I was going to warn you not to do it until you've got time. Don't start doing that. Oh yeah, because I will fall down that rabbit hole. Yeah, it's not a good thing. Yeah. So you're standing still at the moment?Yes, after my second year. Oh, second year. So is that a four year or? Three. Three. Okay. So what do you get at that?I get a Bachelor of Arts and I'm majoring in Ancient History and Archaeology. Okay. And then minoring in just History. History. Yeah. And what do you want to do with all that?I want to like work at a museum, like in curation, or I want to do like... I'm really interested in like a who do you think you are type job where I like help people find their stories and you know... like collate all that information for that. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be really cool. I'd love to do that. Yeah. But doing this sort of helps in that respect a little bit. Yeah. But I just think to be able to capture people's stories and stuff, it's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, you maybe should do some media stuff then too. As far as I've known. I mean, I've started now, I guess. Yeah. It would be good if you want to get into that because then you'd have to like, oh yeah, ****. Or even the recording stuff you're doing, if you keep that up, there's another element to playing bass where you'll learn recording techniques and stuff. Yeah. So don't stop doing that. Yes. Keep it up. It's really, it's really good. Yeah. You know. Now we had actual questions here or points which I have. Purposefully, I just wanted to talk about history. Hey, me too, man. That's okay. But you were talking about like from sort of that transition. Yeah. So when did you actually get diagnosed again?What was it? I was 14. 14. Yeah. So that was... late for or was it the first time that anyone brought anything up?Well, it was really interesting because I sort of had felt there was something wrong, but I didn't have a word for it. And there were other kids in my primary school that had autism and I'm like, well, I'm not like them. So obviously that's not like something within, you know, that couldn't be a possibility. And then someone's mum, like my mate told me as kids do like something their mum is saying that they're not supposed to. Oh, about you?Yes. And but to be fair, her mom like is a carer. Yeah. And she goes, oh, my mom thinks you're autistic. And I was like, what?Awesome. And then I went home to mom and I was like, hey, so and so's mom thinks I'm autistic. And she's like, yeah, no, I think you are too. I'm like, when were you going to tell me this?When were you going to tell me this?So we went through the process of getting diagnosed and obviously I am, but I was like, beingautistic for 14 years and not knowing is crazy. I know like 47 years of not knowing. That's insane to me. That's insane. Yeah, it's debilitating. Yeah, it's. If you don't, it's like you've got a broken leg and you try to run around with everyone and it's like... but no, you don't know you've got a broken leg. And it's healed badly because it hasn't been treated properly. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, well, that's it. It's like it is what it is like. Yeah. And you think everyone else is struggling that much. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's say there's a lot, there's a lot of people that I talk to who, yeah, are just coming up with these amazing insights into their life when in like 1000 years ago, we'd be dead. By this stage, you know, we'd already be dead. And now we're getting to a whole second life of understanding, you know?I find that so hilarious to think. I think about that all the time. I try to go back as far as I can and go, would I survive then?Would I survive then?I cannot go very far back at all. Like Ellie, like The Last of Us, would you, would you, like, Ellie talks about this, would you survive?Yeah, she'd just say, eat me, eat me, just kill me. I had such bad lung issues as a kid, I'd be like, oh. That's true. I would not have survived. Yeah, I had asthma bad. Yeah, I had asthma. I would have been, yeah, I would have been screwed. Yeah, we would not have lasted long. Wow. Yeah. I'm obsessed with post-apocalyptic stuff. Oh, same. Around the same age of 14 or something, I started having like recurring dreams of being the last person in Melbourne and that sort of stuff. And then I've got all these post-apocalyptic books andSo, this is like a golden age in the moment. Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh my God, it's so much fun. And I don't, I love isolation, so I'd be okay now with that sort of thing, but I hadn't thought about that, if I was a kid. That I would not have. If I had to run. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would have been screwed. Okay. Oh my God. Anyway, so you got the diagnosis. Yes. Are you having ongoing support at all? Yeah, I've been doing like therapy for five years and then as well as that, I did speech therapy for like 2 years or one year. And then I did, oh my god, I did occupational therapy for a bit and that was to like, to help with the transition from like child to adult, which was interesting. It was. Okay, right. Occupational therapy is a weird one because they can do whatever. Yeah. Like seriously. Like whatever they needed. I learned how to do public transport with this woman, but she, I think she hadn't worked with older people. I was like 17 at this point and she would look at me like, ah, and she would act like I'm a child. I'm like, girl, you don't need to be doing this. I'm 17, I'm not a child, but I think. Just a script, maybe just a script that they have. Yeah, but the way she like spoke to me, I was like,You don't see me as my age, do you?You see me as younger. So it wasn't like you weren't thinking of his ableism, it was more just... It felt like infantilization a little bit. I know a lot of people do that, like when they find out you're autistic. Yes! And it's like... I get that. It's like, no, no, beforehand you were fine. Like, we were good. Yeah, I get that. It's hilarious. Being infantilized at like... How old are you?Yeah, like with workmates. Some workmates are like, yeah, they just, they changed the way they spoke. Yes. And I find it hilarious. Also a little bit. It's embarrassing for them. Yeah. Because I'm like. Like, it's so weird. But I just, I'm amused. Yes, no, it's fun for me because I'm, yeah, it's just funny. What's like the worst reaction you've gotten to saying that you're autistic?Or like the weirdest one. Well, it's more, it's the hilarious looks on their face of like, particularly with work, because I was working with people before the diagnosis and after, and it was more like, it was more doubt. Yeah. They were like, but you know, you're, I need to search for this word. I love words, but then I always want to make sure that I'm using the right word. And in my head, I've come up with the word ebullient. Ebull. Ebull. Okay, use a word. Cheerful and full of energy. I'm correct. Okay. So I know these words and they just popped in my head. Yeah, I was. Cheerful, full of energy at work and I've, you know, I do all that sort of stuff. And so they were just like, obviously they have an idea of what autism is, but also, yeah, so they were doubting, completely doubting. And one of my managers said, you're the best actor I've ever seen, you know. And so I have to go through the process of saying, this is, that's not me after I walk out the door. Yeah, no, that's very different. Yeah, you're just putting it on. Yeah. But yeah. I get like a lot of, oh, you don't look autistic. And I'm like, what do you mean by that?I don't look like Sheldon Cooper. That's right. Like, my haircut isn't helping. I've got a pixie cut, but like, dude. I always think of, what's a good one?to say back, could you say something like... Well you don't look like an idiot. Yeah exactly, you don't look stupid. But clearly, you know, looks don't matter. Yeah, or I get the, oh you're not that autistic. And I'm like, what are you basing this off?Like sometimes I've just met someone and they'll be like, oh you're not that autistic. And I'm like... Why are you basing?Oh, because I can make eye contact with you. I'm looking here. And the talking and all that sort of stuff, it's like. No, no, it's like a survival strategy almost. It's like, well, you wouldn't, I'm not, I'm sure if I'd like took all that off, you wouldn't want to talk to me. It makes it difficult, I think, sometimes because of the categorisation of autism, or DHD or ADHD as well. It's so broad, people don't, and I think we need to stop using the word spectrum. because other, and I can't remember the word that they're changing to, it's more like a circle, like a pie chart sort of thing, you know what I mean?That's what my mum uses to show people. Exactly, yes, so higher up in this bit, lower bit, then that comes down to the testing you get done as well to show all that sort of stuff. And that's more useful to talk to people and say, well, what is the word? It's like it's not a linear spectrum, it's it's it's... Future Dan here. It's called the Autism Spectrum Wheel or pie chart model. I sort of say I have higher support needs in some areas and lower in some. Exactly. And that's probably the easiest way to say it. Yeah. So. It's hard to describe though. Yeah. And obviously it's very confusing because we've got, you know, this insane******** in America at the moment who, I don't know if you've been seeing what he's been saying. About autistic people. Yeah. Oh, I have not, but I'm assuming it's horrible. It's just, it's horrendous and so stupid. Yeah. And he's looking after the health of people, of Americans, you know. So he's now going to see how we can, how they can go about curing it. And he's an anti-vaxxer. I mean, what a great choice. What a fantastic choice of, you know. So I've made, I've made out my, the person or the private Facebook page that people go on to. We're not going to talk about that. It's free. It's free of that discussion. We're not talking about that on there. Because I don't, you just shouldn't have to like defend your own existence. Yeah. That is just stupid. Yep. And I love using the word neurotype now. Yeah. I'm saying it literally is just a different brain type. Yeah. It's not, you can't eat. a food to get rid of a neurotype. It's not how, it's not how word works. It's not how bodies work or brains work. You know, it just doesn't work that way. You can, the confusion would be, I think is the, which Matt really talked about, which is the nature of vine. nurture. So it's not nature versus nature. And so we can express certain things or be bad, express good or bad things based on our surroundings and the people around us. And, you know, depression may not come out when it could in another situation. You know, for some people, it's just, it just depends on their lives, which I find really. Yeah, it's really, really interesting how that works. So you've, so you, you said you've still got ongoing sort of supports. Do you feel? Like, are you able to go through that sort of internalized process of understanding yourself and continuing to grow with that understanding or do you still think it's used to have?With the diagnosis. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it completely changed my life because I just hated myself as a kid because I was like, I can'tlike be like everyone else and there's no reason why I can't. But now that I have it, it's like, oh, well that makes so much sense. And you sort of look back like retrospectively and you're like, oh, that's why I lined up all my toys as a kid. Or that's why I couldn't like play make-believe with other kids. But I think therapy... helps me, like, right now I'm doing AMDR therapy, which is like trauma processing therapy. But it just helps me keep myself in check more so than like, like accepting myself, because I think I'm pretty cool right now. So like, but it's also like, because I'm in a transitionary period from like... like child to adult, it's really helpful to have like a big support. Like I just need it. Like I don't think I could go without it. Yeah, and our brains are still developing until like a mid-20s, I think it is, or something like that. It's so it's still it's still ongoing process that you have to go through. That's interesting. Do you like do you have any output stimmings and things like that that you're aware of or?I mean, I've got a fidget in my hand right now. Yeah, look at this. Oh, a fidget ring. A fidget ring?Yeah. It's amazing. I just literally got it like a week ago. Fantastic. Oh my god. What other stimming do I... It's very different when, depending on who I'm around. Okay. Like, I realise I mask, like, it's not a conscious thing about masking. I think that's a huge misconception. A lot of people are like... Well, why don't you, do you not trust me?Like, do you want to unmask around me?It's like, that's not how that works. It's a survival instinct almost, like in your brain. It like, it just switches on. Okay. But then when I'm at home, I'll just like, I like to jump around in my room or like just say stupid stuff or like repeat things in my head or, you know, that sort of thing. Yep. It's so funny because I ask that because like, you know, I'll be down here listening to some musicAnd when I get really drawn into the music, I didn't realise I did it. I only realised halfway through it. I was standing sort of back in the best spot for the sound to get to my ears. and I noticed I was like swaying and stuff and I went, oh my god, how am I supposed to do that?Yeah. I had no idea I did that. That's so funny. It's like, I've only gone to, I went to a couple of concerts like in the past couple of months that have been like moshing. Oh yeah. It's everyone's stimming. That's why. Like they just feel it and you jump around and I didn't think I'd enjoy it because I don't really like being touched but I really, really enjoyed it. I think Christ I was in the 90s. Yeah. Because I got through that era and that's what we used to do. I mean, it wouldwould always be funny because usually the girls, a song would come on and they knew what was about to happen, they would run. And all these guys were just smashing into each other. No. Big smiles and pushing them. It's not like violent, it's just like a big explosion of just like, yeah. I really enjoyed it. I thought I'd die, but my friend was like, before we went to a concert, she was like, okay, here's our plan if you get overstimulated. And then I was at the barricade and I was like, oh, I was like headbanging. It was awesome. Imagine what it was like for women back in the mid-60s. Oh yeah. And from that point before, where they were not allowed to express themselves in any survival way. No. You know. And then all of a sudden, someone like the Beatles comes along. Yeah. And women are, the girls there were peeing themselves. Yeah. Because they lost control. Yeah. You know?And I think it's sort of like a bit stupid to say that it was all like, oh, they were lusting after them. I'm like, no, they were just like experiencing a lot of music. Yeah, exactly. And they were allowed at that moment to express. Yes. And, but because they... Hadn't. It was like a damn burst. Yeah, it's like literally. Yes, literally. Figuratively and literally, you know, it was. It was, it was like, ah. It's like my favourite era of fashion, the 1920s, like. Oh. I love the 20s fashion. Yeah, me too. I think it's fantastic. Yes, like the contrast between like the long hair of like the 1800s and then like bob. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like knees showing sometimes crazy stuff, but like. Beautiful, beautiful fashions. Yeah, I reckon they would have been autistic to be honest. A lot of the flappers like doing whatever they want to do. Yeah, that's true, isn't it?Yeah. Fun to think about who would have been autistic in history, 'cause I know prior to what is that contrary to popular... believe it's not a modern thing. No. No. A lot of people are like, it's like, I had a driving instructor who was like, oh yeah, I remember when like ADHD was a huge thing in the 90s and we were both like, but it was big then because it was being recognized, but it was always a thing. Yeah, huge for who?Like, I don't know, teachers. Yeah, you know what I mean?And there's all these other aspects that things we're not focused on at the time. or even discovering a planet. Yes, doesn't mean it's not there. Oh, that's just popped up. Oh, typical. Yes. All of a sudden when they got, you know, they got some good, not binoculars, bloody telescopes. Big telescopes. All of a sudden they start discovering all these planets and stars and like... What the hell was going on then?Yeah. And out there, all of a sudden they were just all appearing. It's so stupid. But it is very much the conversation that's happening right now. Yeah. I hope this can, and I kind of, part of me is kind of okay with what's happening because it's just so funny to me. Yeah, it's so funny. It's so funny. And eventually it's going to dumb itself into death. you know, because it's just so stupid that it can't last. Yeah, there's a lot of people, I saw something online the other day and I was ******* myself because it was, it was like a comment from a grandparent of like, oh, all these people are autistic now and it's a huge thing. Meanwhile, you're not allowed to touch any of their stuff and they've got a routine that's down pat. Yeah, yeah. What? You probably are. Yes. And then when you find friends, enough, you're finding that. Yeah. Like I found friends before that and we're all... Oh yeah, you're drawn to them without knowing. Yeah. Yeah, my best friend growing up, she got diagnosed when she was like 9. Okay. And then I got diagnosed when I was 14, but I was like, we both kind of knew. Yeah. I think, yeah, my friends are, I would fit into the category of a neurodivergence, not necessarily autistic or anything. but they're definitely, you know, kooks and think differently and that kind of thing, or just even the way they have their habits, that sort of stuff, we're comfortable around each other. And that's not often the case with neurotypical people necessarily that you feel comfortable, you can't, can you? I mean, I think, like my best friend, she does everything she can and I love her so much, but some, but like, I thinkif you have, like, sometimes it's just nice to be around autistic people because you have that mutual understanding. Yeah, it's just easier, isn't it?It's weird. Yeah. That's why, like, if I know I'm going to be talking to someone who's like neurodivergent or whatever, I don't plan as much anymore. No, I don't either. There's just no point. I don't have to. Yeah. do that. If I'm talking to somebody who's got a particular skill set, then I think I need to, you know, to do that. But otherwise it's like, it's like, oh, I don't have to worry about that. It's going to be fine. I didn't think about what I was going to say today until like driving over here because I was like, I know I can just yap and yap to an autistic person. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, it's so easy. And do you mull over it afterwards?I used to, but then I was like,I actually don't care. It's too much. It's too much to think about. I know, replaying and replaying and having. Yeah. And if I did something wrong. Yeah. So like, and if I haven't, usually I reflect on it. I'm like, I'm pretty good at picking up if I like, I'll text someone after, hey, did I say something wrong?But like, but also like, if, tell me. A lot of the time I'll say, if you are uncomfortable or if I've said something you don't understand, tell me. That's a really difficult thing for neurotypicals to do though. Yeah, because they just want a people please and it's like, no, no, like you're helping me by doing this. I want to pay, I people please. I've done that as well. Yeah. But that sort of brutal honesty is not something that a lot of people want to take part in. It's like so many people have said to me, oh, I like especially with like dating and stuff like I just love girls who are like forward and brutally honest and then when you are they're like whoa. No, no, no, you said that. You said you liked that. And I'm dialed down, I'm only got two at the moment. Yeah, I know. Well that's when you go, See ya. Yeah, not for later. Nah, nah, I'm not going to be your parent. Yeah, exactly. Not your mama. Yeah. Well theTalking about parents, I'm going to have to put in my Segway song there. Yep. A crappy Segway. How have you dealt with your parents and continue to and how do they deal with you?Okay, my mom is like my biggest support system. Right. Like I'll say like she's really, really in tune with me and she's really good at like, sometimesI'll get to a point where I can't talk, but she knows what I mean. Okay. Yeah. So both my parents have been very supportive and I think my diagnosis has sort of made my dad, who's, he's autistic, let's be real. I was about to say. Yes. So which one?He is, yeah, no, exactly. You can ask that. It's 100% my dad. He loves Dungeons and Dragons. He wears very like simplelike comfy clothing. He's very like, he'll get very hyper fixated on things. So he doesn't feel the need to get diagnosed, which is fine, whatever, do what you want. But I think it's interesting how I think he's sort of had a lot of realizations since I've been diagnosed. That's what happened to me too. Yeah. It's like, oh my god, yeah, I realize now it's school stuff, any things you were struggling with and you think back, oh. Yep. That was me. It feels like you've almost lived two different lives, which is kind of sad. I feel like in my case, it feels like I'm a different person. Yes. But I understand if people think like they, this is just how I see it myself for me, but I understand it's like a progression for other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, that's a thing I just, obviously an ongoing struggle and like trying to make sense of, is there someone I'm, is there somewhere or personality that I'm working towards?Yeah. And that, then I think, well, that's ridiculous because I'll be actually creating that. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I'm learning to sort of back off from that, that sort of thinking and just let it go where it's going without trying to lead it. Yeah. And that's, yeah. So you,Do you feel like you've had, you don't have to do that?You kind of... No, I just, I just, I just go with it, but I just feel like the change was so big and it just changed like how I saw things. Yes. That's sort of what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. So for a lot of people my age who go through this, when we're sometimes we're a little annoyed and jealous by that. Like it's like, why do, you know, why do my kids get to set up boundaries for what they can and can't do, you know?I get todo all that stuff, you know?And, but on the other term, I talked about this with Tismo on the, I think it was the last episode. Some of those things are good skill sets to learn. Yeah, that I think a lot of kids should learn that sort of thing. Yeah, struggle is really important. Yeah, yes. Yeah, so do you feel that you should, or do you put yourself into situations or whatever that do put pressure on?on yourself and, you know... Not necessarily, the obvious thing is going to social situations and talking to people and that sort of stuff. Small talk's a really important skill to learn, I think. Yes, yeah, I sort of, yeah, I do that. I think what I think is like, like... challenging for me is going to be so different from what is, like I think challenging things are, like calling someone on the phone, I really, really struggle with that. Me too, I hate it. But I can like go into a group and talk to them because I know how to like perform and put it on. Like I understand how to do that. But I do definitely challenge myself and I think as a kid I just, I just sort of had to push myself. through things because I didn't have really another choice so I did have to learn things that way but I've only just learnt about skill regression. Do you know about this?No. So basically... Oh, sorry, yeah, I think I do. I think we talked about this. Go on, go on. How interesting is it?It's basically where you have to relearn things because you learnt them initially when you were like in fight or flight and I was like, that makes so much sense because I felt like, I think a lot of people have this when they're diagnosed, they feel like they're acting more autistic but they're not. Yes. They'reThey're just relearning how to, like, how to, like, I'm not super great at staying in, like, crowds, like, being in social situations for... like large amounts of times, but I could when I was a kid. Yes. But that's also because I had to. Had to, yeah. Yep. And it's, I've only just learned about that and it's made so much more sense to me because I felt like I was playing it up and I'm like, no, I'm having to relearn all this thing. You're developing new neural pathways. Yes. Different ones. Yes. They might be sort of on the same sort of subject matter or whatever, but it's a whole new context going on. There's whole new things going in your brain. Yeah. And you've got different connections now with that particular thing that you do. but now you're bringing in something other, something else, all of a sudden there's a whole new, when I picture the neuropath, I picture those sort of like, well, it's actually like the last of us that. Yeah, the fungus and stuff. The fungus and things, and it's like twirling around, it's getting thicker and thicker and stronger, and the other stuff just sort of starts to disappear. But I think it also happens with things, for me, I'll get into something big time, like that, sort of like going to the biblical studies or something like that. And I've lost it all now, because I haven't been. doing it. Yeah. And so I have to re-learn things even I'm into. Absolutely. Oh, that's like with history. I was like, I kind of hope you wouldn't ask anything specific because like, I really, really like World War II. Could I tell you a like date?No, no, I couldn't. I just like it. It's really. It's the vibe. It's really embarrassing sometimes when people ask you, oh, it's in a special interest. I'm like, please don't because like... I just like it. Yeah. Like, I don't know a lot about this right now. And you don't need to point. We don't need to now. No. We really don't. You don't need to just lock in a whole lot of information, yeah, because we can just, it's unnecessary, say, Hey, tell me about this, and they're like, Okay, I didn't need to remember that sort of stuff, I'll just find it easy, it's easily accessible now, whereas for me, when I was a kid, we had Funk and Wagnalls books up there, and that's where I'd have to go to find out. information or have to go off to the library and stuff and it took forever. Yeah. You don't have to do that anymore. Exactly. That's why rd learning all this **** going on at school is pointless. Yes. Absolutely pointless. You just don't need it. Even like learning coding and that sort of stuff, there's only there's only so much you can you should be taking on because it's going to change again. Yeah. You know, you should be learning how how to source information rather than taking it on. Yeah. You know what I mean?It's it's it's a really interesting way, but we're so slow. with learning how to change that sort of stuff. Do you learn differently to other people?I'm a huge visual learner. I have to have like, in biology we'd talk about these like concepts and I'm like, I need to see what that looks like. Like I really, really struggled in chemistry. I did not pass chemistry because I couldn't picture it. No, I was terrible at it. Yeah, so I learned like that, yeah. So the chemical, like the, so it's got like your... 2 Z's and stuff like that, that's not enough, is it really?No, I need, like, I want to see it happening. Okay. Like, even if, like, we're talking like molecules and stuff, I'm like, well, I can't see it, so good luck teaching me it. I can't. I'm in videos now, you can go on YouTube and there'll be some sort of visual thing you could if you had to. Yeah. But yeah, but it's not easy. It's not easy. Okay. Yeah. I'm still trying to get my head around what I, how I learn best. Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm really not sure because I haven't had to study anything particularly. Yeah. I think a lot of people rely on that too much. It's like, just do it how you need to. Yeah. I really, really don't think if you categorize things too much, it doesn't allow for any like nuance or anything. So it's like, do what you need to do. You don't need a category for that. Yep. Just learn how you need to learn. I think that's fine. I don't know if I'm going to go back and study at all. Fair enough, it's not fun. It was never fun for me at all, but I never studied something I was into. Oh, that's rough. Yeah. What did you study?I started off, I wanted to go to Box Hill to, you know, write music and that sort of thing. I also wanted to go to School of Audio Engineering and Secura, but they wouldn't pay for that because it was an upfront fee and soI, they just know, because you're lazy and you're just going to fail. The Box Hill one wasn't, that was just a TAFE and they thought that was beneath the family. So they decided I was going to study classical guitar. Okay. Classical guitar. Classical guitar. And I had to sit there and practice, practice. And I took. I left the year 11 halfway through because they were trying to get me into economics and accounting to follow on with my grandfather's business. Yeah, okay. Of stationery. That's my best friend. Her granddad is a stationery man. Yeah. Good. It was a wonderful idea. Great idea. But I was... It's just, you're just miserable. It was awful. And I don't have the head for it. I've since doing the whole tests. Yeah. I absolutely don't have the brain for maths. No wonder, yeah. Oh my God. So I took six months off and started year 11 at a new school where I'm at Jen. Yeah. And basically studied classical and theory for six months. That's all I did. Yeah. And so I got really good, really quick, even though I wasn't into it. Yeah. And got into, called it the conservatorium. Oh, yeah. Wow, okay. Yeah, because that's where they thought it was the, that's what a respectable person does to go into the conservatorium. And I lasted a year. Yeah. And, you know, I hated it. Hated it. I loved, I love interacting with the musicians and I'm still, I still know a few of them. And I would sit there and jam. you didn't get to watch the movie that was about a music school, like it's too old, but sitting just in the foyer, all these people singing and jamming and stuff was just, it was so much fun, you know. But then I had to study classical music and it was awful and there was no job at the end of it. No. I couldn't teach in the school. No, that wasn't part of it. You just know it. Four years of studying and only three people in the country were making a living out of doing that. Oh my gosh. So I finally took a stand. for myself and left and then told my parents who were just, you know, particularly my mother was just mortified that she now has to tell everyone that I've again failed. But they set me up to fail, you know, completely set me up to do something I wasn't into. You know, I hated it. So then I was forced to like work a lot at home and find some other thing. And that's how I got into disabilities, which wasI went back to my old high school actually and talked to the careers person there. And that was just enough for them to say, what are you good at on lots of stuff?And I thought, well, you should. go and do some volunteering at, you know, these sort of places. And I was really good at it. Yeah. You know, so I did do a course, like a certificate for that. And that was good. I enjoyed, I enjoyed that. But then I wasn't getting paid back then. It was terrible. So I went and studied IT. I literally said, what's the opposite of that?IT. Hated it, struggled, but got through. Yeah. And did it for 20 years? Yeah, my dad does some sort of IT as well. And hired every single second of it. Yeah. You know, not a good thing, which is, yeah, it's while, like I'm talking to you about you doing your, what you're going through, doing something you're totally into and you don't have to struggle to learn and to spend your time doing, it's so important to do that if you can. Yes. to keep doing that. But also, it's really important, like we were talking about before, about diversifying what you do, diversifying your skill sets. So when you start talking about that stuff, yeah, you need to start learning how to record. You need to start practicing doing that. Yeah. Even, yeah, doing your own sort of podcast kind of thing where you talk to people about stories. Yeah. And that kind of stuff. That's the sort of thing that you'll pick up that skill that's fun to do. You know what I mean?Yeah. And what else would you do?So even like in film, that sort of stuff?Yeah, I used to like, when I was younger, we'd like do stuff with Barbies and I'd always film it and like make sure like the sets were right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the control. Yeah, well that's it. So that's, it sounds like that's what you need to do then, expand out and... Yeah. Even if you go and just hang out, I've done that in the past, like I've literally just gone, can I come and hang out and watch what you do?Yeah. And you can learn so much by doing that, just volunteering a bit of your time or just literally just hanging out. That's a good thing to do. Yeah, I'll definitely look into it, yeah. God, how many years?So you've got one year left? Yep. So are you going to do any more study after that?No. No, no, not. No, I haven't had a, I went straight from year 12 into uni, which was like the dumbest thing for anyone. Do not do that. I know. I'm so, I'm still burnt out from year 12. Like, have a break, guys. You don't need to. It depends on the situation at home too. Like, oh, there's no way I was going to be allowed to do that. Yeah, I understand there's a lot of pressure from like your parents and stuff, but if you can, please take a break. Yeah. Please take a break. And even like with with the tools and stuff, like you can break it up, can't you?You can just sort of do maybe instead of, I don't know, you anymore. You can do it in two years. Yeah, you can definitely do it like part time. Yeah, yeah. But I think the fact that you can do, are you doing anything online or is it all attendance?It's pretty much all attendance, but the lectures are online. Lectures are online and they're recorded? Yeah, they're recorded, yeah. Because that was a big problem for me, is that like trying to write down notes. Yeah, but we've got captions and you can pause. Oh my god. Yes, this is what we needed. Yeah. I love that stuff. Yeah. I'm finding it work with getting these transcriptions, allowing transcriptions, so I can use that for helping. do minutes and look at summaries and that kind of stuff, you know, it's so good. We haven't got into AI, it's not. It's a big X, but I'm loving, I love AI. I love some of the stuff, particularly in music. Yeah. People, I was talking to someone when I was at the round doing the event and they were doing the audio stuff and they were totally against, totally against it, you know. And I get it, but alsoIt's kind of hard not to enjoy a little bit. Yeah. There's a, like there's a Beach Boys song or an album that I adore and a lot of the real fans love it, but it is, it is weird. Is it the animal one? No, Pet Sounds?No, that's the one that everyone loves. It's just, it's nice to listen to. But then it's like later on, he was, essentially a former bipolar, he was struggling big time. And so he sort of backed off from the whole thing and they'd have to drag him to come out and record or take a part or write or anything like that. But at this point he was getting a bit better. He got, he found, like he got a synthesizer, one of the early synthesizers with the early sort of, all that kind of stuff. and made this extraordinary, I think it's a masterpiece of an album. But it's weird. Yeah. And he wrote the lyrics, which he normally doesn't. And he's talking about roller skating and what do the planets mean?And it's like really, it's like childish. Yeah. But because he's an amazing songwriter, there's this depth and that's underneath it. But as far as the production, it's just mostly the synths and that kind of stuff. Yeah. AI, some guys used AI to recreate those songs from a pet sounds era. Oh, that's cool. And made it, and brought it into a whole different sound from a production. Oh, that's really good. That's awesome. Yeah. You know, I don't know if you're getting into the stuff like with the Beatles and now they've discovered how they can isolate tracks and sounds. Oh my God, and it's super useful. It's super useful for like a player, like a bass player too, because you can then isolate. the bass and just listen to that, you know, because that makes it very difficult, but they can do all that stuff now. I can't wait. I cannot wait. Oh my god. Early recordings and that sort of stuff, old 78 crackly things, they can take out the crackle. Oh yeah, I didn't even think of that. I just said I wasn't going to talk about it. future Dan here. Look, the conversation going and going, but we can't have a podcast that goes on for everybody. I do want to just point out that it was a great little discussion we had at the end where I was talking about how I feel like a failure. I think you gain more by like taking in more than one perspective. Yep. Like especially with history, it's like you could learn like all about World War II. Yes, yeah. you have no idea about everything else that has happened. That's right. That's true. It's hard because you don't, you feel like you're not like good enough to say that you... Just talk about it. Yes, exactly, exactly. But it's like, well, you don't, you actually don't have to, and it probably, and I find the people whodo just focus on one thing. It's like they're very hard to talk to because they're very set in their ways and they're not very open to learning different things. And it's like, why would you limit yourself when you can, when you could open your world to all these different perspectives?That's true. You know, you do it this way or no, that's exactly, that's what, that's how it was done. I think I value like different perspectives above all else, regardless of whether I like believe in them or not. It's like,I think there's so much value in learning about other people and what, like, stuff I'm not interested in because it's like, well, I'm not going to know if I like it if I don't know about it. Yeah, exactly, that's true. But even from your skill sets. you'll be able to make connections with things that they wouldn't be able to. Absolutely. Like I can, I've got very, very good pattern recognition. So I can like, I can like. Oh my god, you're going to love blind voice so much. Yes, I can connect to things very, very well. Yeah. Whereas someone may only just be able to like identify one thing. You're going to love him somewhere. He should be paying me. But that's exactly what he does. He hyperfixates on something for a week. Yeah. but then finds these unbelievable connections with things that completely seem unrelated, you know. Yeah, but they're not. Oh my god, you know, it just, it's extraordinary stuff that he does, and because he goes off all over the place, it's true, he's so, he's got such a useful brain that is picking up things, which I'm talking about with him looking at like science, ecology and these old myths, that no oneHe talks to us and haven't made that connection or even thought to look at that. They think it's all new. Yep. But no, it was just, it was just, it was, it was stories passed on and they knew it for a long time. Yep. It doesn't mean they were ancient, it wasn't ancient wisdom. It was just, our brains haven't changed. Yes. You know, we've always been as smart as we are. Yeah. You know?Truly. Like looking back on like the letters from kings to kings, it's like,Oh, they were just as petty as us. Like, nothing has changed. No. Yeah. No, absolutely nothing at all. And autistics have always been here. Yes. Going right back. And that's something I'm mentioning a lot now. Yep. On this, on Facebook or wherever else, saying, what a load of nonsense. We've always been here. Always. The only reason we're here and we've innovated and we've got where we are is because of neurodivergent heads. Because otherwise, you bloody bunch would have, you know, would just be floundering around, still swinging in the trees. It'd also be boring. It would be so boring. Yeah, it would. Yeah, it is. But we're stuck with dealing withthese systems, these cultural setups that are just so... They're just not meant for us. No. But we've still got to deal with them. Yeah, but we shouldn't have to. No. No. I'm talking about to say because we're better. No. No, it's not, but we're... It's useful. Yeah. It's useful to allow neurodivergent people into the mix to provide their flavor as well. Absolutely. And that's being, at the moment, it's being eradicated, particularly in America and over here as well. It's literally being eradicated. Yeah. It's an extraordinary thing. It's not going to last, but yeah. Yeah, it's interesting to say. Well, that was a really good conversation. Yes. I don't know if we covered everything you wanted to cover. I think we did. I think we did. Yeah, I think we absolutely did. I'm like 90% sure I haven't introduced myself though. No, I never do that. Oh, I never do that. I just go straight into it. Okay. Well, I hope you enjoyed that chat, everyone. And that's it for this episode, other than to play you a song that I actually played on the live event to try and make sure that if some of the people I was talking to were talking too long, I was able to play a song to tell them to get off the stage and ****** off. So, enjoy. So the time is now fading, it's time to wrap it up. Your monologue's been engaging, but I must now interrupt. Time to take a breath, and please don't overstay. The mic is tied, and so am I, so let us not delay. ****** off, ****** off, thank you for your time. ****** off, ****** off, thank you for your time. Get up now, get up now, time to sit right down.****** off, ****** off,****** off.