Native American Testimony: From Meth Addiction & Prison to Pastor | Mark Little Elk

In this powerful episode of the From Wrong to Strong Podcast, Omar Calvillo sits down with Pastor Mark Little Elk to share an extraordinary testimony of redemption, hope, and the life-changing power of Jesus Christ.

Growing up on the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota, Mark was surrounded by poverty, alcoholism, addiction, violence, and hopelessness. Searching for acceptance, he became involved in gang life, meth addiction, and repeated incarceration. But after experiencing unimaginable tragedy, including the suicide of his 14-year-old daughter, Mark reached the lowest point of his life.

Then God met him.

From a jail cell to Bible college, from addiction to pastoral ministry, Mark's story is a powerful reminder that no one is beyond the reach of God's grace. His testimony also offers a unique look into Native American communities, the challenges many reservations face, and the hope found only in Jesus Christ.

In this episode, you'll hear about:

• Growing up on the Rosebud Reservation

• Gang life, addiction, and prison

• Overcoming grief after losing loved ones

• The heartbreaking loss of his daughter

• The unforgettable moment he heard his daughter's heartbeat in another person through organ donation

• Finding faith in Jesus Christ

• Becoming a pastor and serving Native American communities

• Why there is hope for anyone who feels beyond redemption

Whether you're struggling with addiction, grief, incarceration, or simply searching for hope, this conversation reminds us that Jesus specializes in transforming broken lives.

Matthew 4:16

"The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light."

Transcript

0:19

What I forgot to mention was that before my daughter died, uh, she told me she wanted to be an organ donor. And so when she died, you know, she, she hung herself in the bathroom, and she was on life support for a couple days. They said that her brain was hemorrhaging. Um, we had to make, make that hard choice to let her go, so we donated her organs. Well, through all that, God worked through that and saved the lives of five women. And then Organ Donation Foundation wanted to film the story, so they brought a film crew up and they interviewed our family. And so met th- this lady who received my daughter's lungs, the little girl who received my daughter's liver, and they brought the lady who received my daughter's heart. And so they had a stethoscope. They said, "Would you like to hear your daughter's heartbeat?" And it was a powerful time, so I put in the stethoscope, and I listened to the lady's... to my daughter's heartbeat in another person. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And I heard God say, "I'll never leave you nor forsake you." And I'm sitting there, like... And it's like right there in that moment, I met the living God. And from that moment, I knew that God was real, and I had no more doubts. That day, I vowed that I will serve God no matter what that looked like, not knowing that I'd be a pastor someday. But I knew that people needed to know, and that I would spend the rest of my life telling people about Jesus Christ The city of Chicago, a city most recently known for its crime and violence. On this podcast, we will be sharing stories of redemption from individuals raised in the tough streets of Chicago. Listen to my guests as they share their experiences, struggles, trauma, but also the strength, hope, faith, and perseverance these have developed in them to keep pushing and moving forward in life. Tune in to hear how their lives have gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong. Hello, everyone. My name is Omar Calvillo, and welcome to another episode of From Wrong to Strong podcast. Uh, From Wrong to Strong podcast is a ministry of From Wrong to Strong Ministries and a production of Light Has Dawn Media. Uh, tonight I'm sitting here with Pastor Mark Little Elk. Yes, sir. Uh, I met this pastor at the CMCA conference in Wheaton. I think that took place, was it, uh, a month ago? Yeah, about a month ago. Some- some- something like that. Yeah. Uh, what, uh, uh, Pastor gave the last word, the last, um, message of the conference, and he had a, a powerful testimony. So I was just, man, just, like, blown away in a sense, I guess you could say, by his testimony, uh, by what he's been through, w- and what God's done in and through his life and what he's doing now. Uh, so we were able to exchange information, and, uh, I told him, "Man, I would love to, to interview you via Zoom." Uh, but then he's like, "You know what? I'm gonna be back in Wheaton, uh, uh, in June." Mm-hmm. And I p- I put it on my calendar, and I forgot all about it. And then yesterday I got the text. "Hey, man, we still gonna meet up?" And sure enough, you know, we were able to be- meet up. And, uh, I wanna give a shout-out to, uh, Koinonia House National Ministries, uh, Pastor Manny Mill, uh, Gary, uh, Reynolds, uh, who allowed us... We're actually in, in their office right now here in Wheaton. Uh, we were looking for a spot, uh, to do this interview, and we were blessed to be here in the prayer room. Uh, so w- w- welcome to the, uh, podcast, Pastor. Yeah. Thank you. Th- th- thanks for, for being here. And, uh, w- another reason why, why I wanted to, uh, have you on here, uh, you're, uh, a Native American. Yeah. And I had never had a interview with somebody, you know, with a Native American, uh, background. So, like- Awesome I wanted to learn more about it. And, and- Yeah maybe we, we could start there i- if you could share with the audience, uh, w- where did you grow up at? Mm-hmm. And how was life for you when you were young? Okay. Yeah, so, um, nice to meet you and greet you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Um, so name's Mark Little Elk. Um, the, the last name Little Elk, it's a, it's a Lakota last name, so that's my tribe. So, um, from the Lakota people. I grew up on the Rosebud Reservation, which is now, uh, South Central South Dakota. And, um, growing up on a reservation, it was, um- It's pretty unique. Um, I guess I didn't know how unique it was until I actually got off the reservation, right? Because that was kind of my context and where I grew up. But, um, uh, you can look up statistics online, and the reservation I grew up in, um- Um, the Rosebud Reservation is next to the Pine Ridge Reservation, and they're, they're, they're both Lakota people, just different reservations. But, um, oftentimes, um, the counties that they, um, reside in often, um, make the, um, uh, statistics of being the, one of the poorest reservations in the country. So they kinda alternate, you know? And so that kinda gives you an idea of what, what, what it was like there. And growing up, um, uh, more statistics you'll find online if you look it up is that Native Americans have a significant high rate of alcoholism, uh, suicide, um, you know, incarceration rates, you know, domestic violence per capita. And so, um, so, so that's the kinda environment I grew up in. And, uh, you know, when I share my testimony, I tell people that I guess you would say I wasn't happy with my childhood. I grew up being, um, bullied in school. Uh, I had a stutter, and it was, it was hard. Um, I was made fun of for it. Um, I had long hair. Um, you know, all the other boys had shorter hair, so they'd make fun of me. And, um, and so I guess I didn't like my, my childhood growing up. I hated school, you know, because when they tried to have me read, it was really hard. Um- Now, when you were in school, was it with other people as well, or was it just like, uh- Yeah your, your tribe, or was it, like- Oh, yeah. So it was, um, on a reservation, so, um, it was all other Native kids. Okay. Yeah. A- and even then, they still made fun out of your long hair, huh? Yeah. Okay. Man, that's- Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty interesting. Okay. So, um, yeah, so growing up, you know, um, I really felt like I didn't have a lot of friends, and so I felt kinda isolated, you know? And so, um, I felt like I didn't fit in anywhere. And, um, and so I just really felt like, um, I had this yearning and this longing for friendship and community. And, um, and I, I did have a few friends throughout the years, you know. There were, there were a few people who, um, who, who were genuine, but for the most part, you know, um, going to school and being bullied, it was, um, it, it made, made things difficult. So yeah, so growing up from there, I, I wanted, I had this desire to, to, uh, fit in with other people. And as I got older, I started realizing, you know, the, the alcoholism rates and drug, drug rates. And so I, I noticed everybody else was drinking and doing drugs, so I felt like I, to fit in, I needed to join these crowds, right? And so that's what people were doing, so I started doing them. And I guess that, that wanting to belong had led me- To adopt those, those ways and those habits, and that wasn't such a good idea because it led down to a long road of being in and out of jail, um, then eventually rehab, you know. Um, before I know it, I'm, I'm... I have this addiction- Mm you know. And, um- Do, do... You know what? Before we go, go into the addiction- Mm at home, did you have both parents, siblings? Uh, um- Yeah how, how was life like as far as- Yeah in, in that, in that sense? Yeah. So my mom and dad, um, um, were married. Um, um, and so I had both parents. You know, there were times where, where they struggled with alcohol, too. There were periods where they would go to church, so they were part of a non-denominational, more like a Pentecostal church. Right. And so, um, so there were seasons where they would go to church, and things would be going well, but then there was also seasons where, where, where they would use alcohol, and it was there where, you know, alcohol came into the home, and I was exposed to, to things that come along with that. And so in the community, you've seen other people use alcohol. And so, um, but, um, I would say that my parents, they did their best, you know, with, with what they knew. Um, I think oftentimes, um, that's all people can do. They, they take the, the best of what they have and, and try to, try to do with, right? Yes. So, um, I had, um, sisters. Um, um, some, uh... My mom had some, um, children from another, um, relationship, and so I had some half-sisters. I had, um, uh, some biological siblings. Um, uh, so far, two of my biological brothers passed away. My older... I had a older brother, but he passed away when I was younger. Had a older sister. She passed away when I was younger. And so- How old were they when they passed away? Around approximately- They were young. Like, um, I think... I don't exactly remember the ages, but I know I was, like, three or four, and so they were not, not too much older than me. Wow. And so, um, so, um, yeah. And then so I had a, a younger brother and a sister. My, my, um, biological sister is, is still alive. My younger brother passed away, and he was pretty awesome. Um, he was, he was my li- little big brother. So, um, as we got older, he ended up being taller and bigger than me, and so it was, it was pretty interesting. But he was just really awesome and, and when he passed away, it was really hard because, you know, he'll... I, I was a crazy guy, you know, and, you know, living the wild lifestyle. So when he passed away, I just really... It was hard for me to understand because then I would be thinking, "Why would he, he die and not me?" Like, I'm the one that's living wild, right? He was more, like, good, I guess, compared to you- Yeah I guess you could say. Compared to me, it was... Like, people loved him. Yeah. He was very, um... He was very... He was like a big, big teddy bear. And how old was he? He was, um, early 20s. Oh, man. Young. Yeah. And how old were you at this time when he- When he passed away, I was probably pushing 30. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you had, like, 10 years on him, huh? Yeah. Got it. Man, so s- it seems like from what you're sharing, there was, like, a lot of death even as- Mm-hmm I believe you mentioned three years old and already older siblings passing away. Yeah. Yeah, and, and throughout that time too, you know, had family members who passed away. Um, you know, had a lot of family members who they're dying, like vehicle accidents or due to alcoholism, you know. Um, people develop, like, cirrhosis of the liver. And so those kind of deaths are kind of pretty common. And so, um, so it got to a point where, you know, you see so much family members pass away where you just become callous to it. Like when someone dies you're just like, "Oh," you know, "Another one." There's another one. Yeah. Man, that's rough. Now, I, I know you mentioned, like, a, a high suicide rate, high, uh, um- alcoholism- Mm-hmm and then, and then the people. But, but what, what are, um, um, attributes to that? You mentioned high percentage per, uh, capita, I believe, or- Yeah like, well, what's... Like, I guess one of the, uh, I'm sure there's some reasons for that, like- Yeah. Yeah, so that, um, so in reservation life there's not a lot of, lot of jobs. And so, um, on our reservation we have 22, like, communities, and these are just, like, really small communities. Most of these communities don't have, like, a post office. They don't have a store. They're just, like, a bunch of houses, you know, out, out somewhere. And so the, the communities are spread apart, so, um, the bigger towns that do have, have jobs available, if there were jobs, you know, it, it'd be hard for people to get transportation and things like that. So, um, and then just the, the a- the alcohol abuse and things like that, it's just, um... So, so there's this, um, there's just a sorrow on the, on the land sometimes. Mm-hmm. And, um, and I guess there's no hope, you know? And that's why I, I, when I came to the Lord and, um, and, and saw what God did for me, I was a person without hope. I was hopeless and, um, and there were probably people before I came to Christ who probably gave, gave up hope on me, you know? And, um, and so being a hopeless person, seeing what Christ can do in my own life, um, I know, I believe with, uh, without a shadow of a doubt that the gospel of Jesus will be very beneficial for my people in a land where there is no hope- Mm-hmm and where suicide seems to be, you know, running rapid. And so I think people just need hope, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, they need to know that God does love them, and even in a place where there may be poverty, there may be violence, there may be, um, substance abuse, you know, um, I think oftentimes whenever people, whenever we, um, go towards addiction... Like in my own life, I was longing for something, right? I was longing for community. I was trying to, I just wanted to belong to something, and I was made to feel like I didn't belong. And so that type of depression made me feel like there was nowhere to turn. and nowhere to go, and there was no future for me. And so I could only imagine there are others feeling the same way. And so that type of mindset will lead you to reach for anything, and if there's something that can give you even a small sense of escape or some small sense of relief, you know, to, to alter your feelings to feel a different way than what you were before, I c- that, I think that's why we, we, we were drawn to addiction because it was a, it was a short escape from something, but it had long-term negative effects. Yes. And, and if you're already feeling depressed before you reach for a drug, then you, then the drug, the, the fallout of it, the, the effects of it put together, it just, it just creates, um, nothing good. And, and so, yeah, in a place that needs Jesus- Mm you know, um, I believe the gospel is the answer. Amen. Th- th- you know what? Let's go back to before the gospel came into your life. Mm. I know you mentioned wild. You know, I was wild. My brother wasn't. Mm. W- what does wild look like, and what things were you doing dur- during that, that time? Yeah. So as I got older, you know, along with, um, alcohol and drugs, I- Uh, because I was bullied, I started hanging around some other guys who, who didn't get bullied. And, you know, so they, they wanted to be gangsters, so I was like, "Okay, well, here's a group that says, 'Hey, come hang out with us. Nobody will mess with you no more.'" And so you start hanging out with them, and then, um, along comes with that is the violence, right? And so, so, um, uh, to- here's me trying to fit in again. And so if that was the way of, of this group, then I obviously had to be even more, more violent than everybody else, so that way I can have some sort of respect. You know, I wanted to earn respect at this new group. So here I am doing things I probably normally wouldn't. And so, um, those obviously led to, you know, jails and rehabs. And then, and then there's always someone out there who's, who's crazy, you know, wants to be crazier, who has the same mindset, trying to be wild too. And so then you meet these people, and then you're, you're fighting against each other. And the thing about that is nobody wins. Yeah. Because if you hurt someone, they're gonna be mad. They're gonna come back, try to hurt you worse, and then you gotta go try to repay back. So there's just no, no, um, there's no end to it. And, and so along with that comes, you know, bitterness and hatred and, and then, um, so then the lifestyle of wanting to be a gangster. You know, we were, you listen to rap music, and then, and then they're talking about, you know, having women and girls. Well, what, what they don't tell you about that is that you're getting involved in these unhealthy relationships where feelings get hurt and, and people are mad. And so not only do you have people who don't like you for whatever color you're wearing, now you got, you know, these, these, um, these broken relationships where there are hurt feelings and hatred. So you're just accumulating more, um, more chaos, right? More enemies. Yeah. Men and women. Yeah. Men and women. And so, so yeah, it, it just, um... And, and trying to maintain that type of lifestyle is, is... And then you get into drugs, and you're worried about the law. And so now that I look back at it, man, I don't know how I- It, it, it's pretty s- pretty stressful because you're always looking over your shoulder- Yes you know, if it ain't an enemy, then you worry about, you know, the police, you know? And, and you're, you don't wanna go to jail. So if you get arrested, you get out on bail, you're not going back to court. And so you're you're running from warrants and stuff. I, I, I was talking to a brother, uh, recently. We did an interview, and we were, uh, talking about PTSD, and, uh- Mm-hmm they, they didn't wanna give him, uh, therapy. Mm-hmm. "Oh, you've never been through something stressful." He's like, "Man, I grew up in Chicago." Like- Right. Yeah speaking of looking over your shoulder, he said, "Man, that was life." Yeah. He's like, uh, he's, "I, I, I didn't know, uh, I, uh, I didn't know I had anxiety my whole life until somebody described it to me." Mm-hmm. Described what anxiety is. He's like, "Man, yeah, I have, I've had that my whole life." Right. Yeah. It's like, man, it's crazy though. We, we don't realize it at the moment- Mm-hmm but looking back, you're like, man, what a stressful life- Yeah that we put ourselves in, right? Like- Exactly, and we willingly walk into this stuff, and then, um, and then now that we look back, we're like, man, you know, it was, it was a stressful life, you know? And but to us, it was normal. Now, I, I know you mentioned, uh, being, uh, a l- uh, locked up. What were these like short stints in and out of jail- Yeah or did you do like some long time? No, not super long. Um, so a lot of it was like county jails, um, reservation jails. Um, um, picked up a federal, federal charge on a reservation. Um, a lot, a lot of things ended up going federal, and so, um, did a short time in federal prison. So, um, yeah, so got there and, um, got out, and it seemed like, uh, for me, it seemed like once I turned 18, from 18 to like 30, 33, I think, until I came to the Lord, seems like that whole time I was either on probation for something or in and out of jail or something, you know? And so, yeah, it was always like, I remember I was, I never did like have, when cell phones came out, I didn't want a cell phone because, you know, the PO was always calling, and you're trying to avoid them and The last man. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. So okay, so that's, that's in your 30s. Mm-hmm. Um, what, what, what happens, like I guess that begins to bring a change in your life? You know, you, you were, I believe you mentioned alcohol. Did you get involved like in drugs, heavy drugs during this time or- Yeah. So, um, you know, as time progressed, um, I ended up getting into like methamphetamine, and so, um, um, you know, getting locked up, coming back out. You know, um, whenever you get out, you know, things, things are changing and stuff, and things happen. You know, family members die. You come back, things are different, and you don't- Um, I think for a lot of people, well, for me s- pr- uh, specifically is I wasn't taught how to deal with grief. And so that was another thing that, uh, contributed to my, my addiction is because underneath our addiction there's something more going on, right? Mm-hmm. And so the, the addiction is just like the, the... Think about a iceberg. And so when you look at a iceberg, you only see the, about 10% of- Yeah of it, and there's actually a lot more at the bottom. So if we was to use that illustration as our drug addiction, the, the, the behavior, the, the actions of using is only the, the top, the tip of the iceberg. It's like the symptoms, right? Yeah. What, what, what's causing- Yeah the symptoms, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so deep down there's other things that are happening, right? Things from our past. And so, um, that contribute to that. And- Now, now grieving, uh, obviously now I'm sure you have a different definition of how- Mm-hmm to grieve, but back then, how did people grieve, or how did they- They just, uh- deal with death, I guess? Just probably get drunk then talk about it. You know, nobody really talk about their feelings whenever it was over. Mm-hmm. Nobody really acknowledged that they were hurting or they were in pain. And so the... And n- even today, you know, I know tribal members, when someone passes away, there's a party, you know, and then, and then it's not till everybody's drunk when they start sharing how they feel. Or someone will get high and just not talk about it and try to be strong, you know, because- Mm-hmm we have this wa- we wanted this warrior mentality where nothing phases us because you can't show weakness. Mm-hmm. And so, um, yeah, so not knowing how to deal with grief. And so say when I got, got out, um, of jail or something and heard someone died, didn't know how to deal with it, so I'd go back to what I knew best and drink or do drugs. And, and so, um, like, you know, the methamphetamine was introduced and, um, I just started out smoking it. And, um, and, um, so around 2015, you know, uh, I was in a relationship with a girl, and she was, uh, killed in a, um, a drunk... She was killed in a car accident. And then, um, and then not long after that, my best friend, he committed suicide. And, and again, like I said, not knowing how to deal with these type of losses, I was struggling because these were, these were people who were like real, supposedly real close to me, and we were... And it just seemed like I was trying to cope with it saying, "Oh, it's just another one." But then, and then not long after that, I had a 14-year-old daughter named Jasmine, and she was going to a residential boarding school. And, uh, apparently she was being bullied there, and she hung herself in the bathroom. And, um, at this time I didn't know how to, you know... I know that at the time, all the other losses in my life, I felt like I could just get drunk enough or get high enough and, and, you know, stuff it away. But- When my daughter died, I felt like there wasn't no alcohol strong enough. There wasn't no, no, no drug. You know, I was already, by this point, my IV drug user, and so I felt like I, I reached the top. There's nothing higher than injecting methamphetamine. Like, there, there was no other thing to go reach out to above that. And, and so pretty soon got to the point where the drugs weren't doing it, you know? Even though I was taking the drugs and drinking all the alcohol, it couldn't help me, um, from stop feeling that pain because this was my little girl, and, um- But was this your only little kid at- Oh, so then I, I had another daughter who died before that, but she was a, a stillborn. Oh, okay. So I, I didn't get to meet her. And so those are things that I was masking and trying to put away. And so whenever my 14-year-old daughter passed away, it was really hard because, um, um, I had to face the implications of my decisions in life. And I remember when she died, uh, I was struggling because I looked back at my life and I started realizing that for a good majority of her life, I wasn't in her, I wasn't there for her because I was always out doing drugs, you know, or locked up. And so she stayed with my mom, and I guess my thinking was that if I didn't bring the drugs home or drink around her, that she'd be okay. Yeah. You know? She'll be better off w- w- without me. Yeah. Especially in, in the, the lifestyle that you were living at that time. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I, I knew who I was. Yeah. And something deep down knew I wasn't, I wasn't a, you know, um, living right. And so when she died, I just remember feeling condemned and, and guilty and shame because, um, you know, that's not how life is supposed to be. Yeah. You know, somewhere, somehow I, I had a sense that, well- At least a father figure should have been better than who I was. And so I'm sitting there struggling, and I'm doing... And then so I'm sitting there, um, still doing meth, and I don't know if it was, like, the, the meth or, or what, but I remember, um, I was feeling like I was, um, being tormented by the devil. And, you know, there were nights where I was, like, all alone sitting in a room, you know, my... doing my drugs and, and I'd hear... I, I would hear a voice, you know, telling me, "Hey, you're a bad father. You know, you're, you know, you're supposed to be the man that this little girl was supposed to look up to. You know, of all the people in her life, she was supposed to feel safe enough to come to you and tell you that someone was hurting her. You know, you're supposed to be the one who was supposed to be praying for her, guiding her, caring for her, but you weren't there. You know, you weren't there for her, her life. And so you're a bad father, and maybe you deserve to die, too. You should just take your own life." And so I, I did an attempt a couple of times. Oh. And, uh- You... C-Can I ask you a question? Yeah. I know you mentioned right now the, the, the devil, hearing a voice. Mm-hmm. Now, growing up, you know, Native American, that w- is very, like, spiritual, right? Yeah. In a, in a sense. Did, did you encounter supernatural, uh, things growing up? Or was this- Um- like, or- Yeah, not, not- Like, in the, in the spiritual sense, I guess? Yeah. Not, not necessarily. Okay. Yeah. So this is, like, something that you experienced, I guess, during this time only- Yeah you hearing that voice and- Yeah feeling something, like you mentioned, the devil? Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, um, um- Yeah, and I, I think, I think it was real. Um, you know, with, with the drugs, I think 'cause w- you know, methamphetamine, you hear voices, you hallucinate. But I think that just opened the door for me- Yeah for me to, to hear. And so, so, um, yeah. And so, and so I'm hearing this, and I feel condemned, and I'm feeling like just the absolute lowest in my life. And I was a tattoo artist, you know, and, um, pretty soon I got to a point where I was doing tattoos for drugs. And, and pretty soon I couldn't even do that 'cause I was always high. And then I felt like some people were giving up on me, and some people were like, "Man, this guy, he's, he's lost it. He's done," you know? And, um, and then, uh, so, so that, that's how it was for a while. Then about a year later, my mom passes away. And man, I'm just like, I just feel just beat up from life and like, like, what, what's the worst that could happen? And I guess I thought the, the, um... I lost the will to live. And, uh, I ended up getting pulled over for, um, DUI. And I remember I was upset, but now I look back and see it as Go- by God's grace. So I, I end up in jail, and I'm sitting there. Um, you know, I'm, I'm having, uh, withdrawals and, and things like that. And I go and call home and nobody answers, and I'm upset. And I'm wondering why nobody's answering. And I remembered that I didn't really have anybody c- no one was there to answer. And, um, and so I'm sitting there thinking, you know, I'm playing cards, you know, playing Spades. And I'm sitting there while people are talking to me. In my mind, I'm sitting there thinking about, you know, doing a reflection, you know, thinking about my life. I'm like, "Man, you know, I'm, I'm gonna, um... I'm sitting here in jail again." And I start looking around at the, the jail, and there was guys older than me. And they're on their way back to prison, but I'm listening to their conversations. And they're sitting there as older men, but then they're talking as They're real immature. You know, they're talking, you know- Yeah bad about women and things like that, telling war stories. And I'm sitting there thinking like, "These guys are old enough to be someone's grandpa. They sh- they should be at home, you know, being, being wise elders and, you know- Yes leading people." And then all of a sudden it hit me. I was like, "Man, that's gonna be me." And so I was like, "Something needs to change." And I was sitting there thinking like, "Well, how can I possibly change? What, what, what, what, w- which direction do I go?" And, and then all of a sudden we're sitting there playing the cards, and I was, I'm sitting there thinking, and I can remember my daughter trying to tell me about Jesus. And so, um, that night I re- I remember before I laid down, you know, there's a Bible there, so I opened it up and- Mm just like s- you know, flipping through it and I'm like s- you know. Didn't mean, mean nothing. Now, i- like was this your first time reading the Bible? Had you read it before or- Oh, I picked it up a few times- Okay and tried and studied, yeah. Okay. And so, um, so I'm sitting there thinking and I'm like, you know, I remember... 'Cause there were people who throughout my life tried to evangelize me or tried to, tried to tell me, "You need to change your life. Turn to God." And so that night I was, before, um, I went to sleep, I was like, "All right," you know. So I decided to pray And so the, I was in this, um, cell block that's, um, in the basement, and I'm looking around. I'm in this concrete box in the ground, and it was, like, symbolic to my spiritual life. Now that I look back, you know, I was dead in my sins and transgressions, and it was like, you know, I was spiritually dead, right? I was sitting in a, a box in the ground. Tomb, like a sense. Yeah, a tomb. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, so I'm sitting there, and I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna try this prayer thing." So I prayed, and I said, "God, you know, um, if you're real, where are you?" And I said, "Wait a minute. Let me ask you a better question." I said, "God, where were you my whole life?" And when I said that, I had a bunch of events in my life I was thinking about. Like, "Where was you when this happened? Where was you when that happened?" Anyway, so I go to sleep, and then, um, and then, and then, and then I have a dream, which is interesting. I, I had this dream. I, this dream, I am walking into a building, and there were a bunch of people listening to a guy speaking. And, um, everybody seemed to be encouraged. And, and, uh, I'm sitting there listening, you know, trying to hear what this guy's saying, and everybody seemed to be, like, like joy, you know, like hope and encouraged. And they just seemed like, like people who had a future or whatever. And I'm sitting there like, they had everything I didn't have, you know. Like, how are these people smiling, you know? And, and 'cause, you know, that was far from what I was feeling. And, and so I wanted to hear what this guy was saying. You know, whatever he was saying was encouraging these people. So I start trying to get up to the front, and everybody's just, like, listening. So I'm trying to push my way through the crowd, and I get closer to the stage and, and it's like, uh, I can start making out his words. And when I get closer, I, uh, I- s- I'm shocked because the guy on stage was me, but it was, like, a, a healthier version of me. And, and, and when I, now when I look back, it was like God was showing me a picture of a, a different life, you know? And so I woke up that morning, and I thought it was a really cool dream, but then I got upset because I knew that I couldn't, on my own, do anything like that. Mm. You know, the things this guy was saying, this, this version of me, you know, his confidence. He was speaking with authority. He looked healthy. He didn't, he didn't seem like he was going through the withdrawals the way I was, and, and he looked healthier. Like, when I was having that dream, bro, I was like, like probably almost 100 pounds lighter than I am now, you know? And so I was, like, really skinny off the meds and, and so, um, and, uh, and well, maybe like 80 pounds- Yeah, yeah 80 pounds lighter. And so I was sitting there, and I woke up, and I was, like, upset, but then I really felt like I had this sense, you know, like, uh- I really felt the Lord pressed on my heart that alone, no, I couldn't have a life like that. I couldn't accomplish those things. But with God, you know, I felt like I could. Amen. And so I started praying more. And then, um, after I get out of jail, the Lord led me to a long-term rehab center, 'cause that was part of my letting me out. You know, they're like, "Hey, you know, we'll put you on probation, but you gotta go to treatment- Yeah and stuff." So I went to a long-term rehab center, and that's when I started reading the Bible. You know, at first, I'm like excited 'cause I just got out, and I'm like, you know, "All right. I can do this." But then when in treatment, they start having you talk about your feelings, and, and, uh, they, they learned about my daughter's suicide, and they wanted me to talk about it in groups around other people, and I, I couldn't, you know, without wanting to get choked up. Yeah. And I was like, "Nah, I don't wanna talk about my feelings." And, um, and one day, I remember I was struggling, and I was, like, thinking about leaving, you know, and I was trying to, like... Man, the judge said if I leave, then, you know, I would go to prison for the DUI. And so, um, I remember sitting there one night, and I'm laying there on my bunk really contemplating leaving. Like, "Man, I should just go, you know? Like, I'm get out of here, man. These dudes don't know what they're talking about." And then all of a sudden, I, I look over, and there was a lamp on this desk, and I was like, "What do I do?" And as soon as I looked over, there was a Bible sitting on the desk. And, and so I go over there, and as soon as I opened it, it was, um, it was a... It started thundering outside. So it was crazy. It was like as soon as I opened it, boom, the whole building shook. And I was like, "All right. This is the answer." Yeah. And as soon as I opened it, um, to the Book of Ephesians, and Apostle Paul says, you know, "We are saved by grace through faith." Mm-hmm. And then, um, and, uh, I was sitting there. I was like, "What's that even mean? I don't know what that means," what grace was, you know? I didn't feel like people were real nice to me growing up. I didn't know what it was to be saved, 'cause I felt like I was drowning in sorrow and grief. And then, uh, I didn't, surely didn't have faith in anything good. And so, so I started reading more and, and then, um, and then they were doing Bible studies and things like that. So I started reading the Bible more and more, and, uh, whenever, um, whenever, uh, I get out of rehab, I'd go out, and, you know, I was getting out, and I was excited. And I was like, "Yeah, I just did nine, nine months in this rehab center. I'm clean. Everything's gonna be okay." So I get out, and I, I was doing construction, and my plan was to, um... I applied for, uh, to go to an art institute in Santa Fe. It's called, in the... It's called Institute of American Indian Arts, and it's the, like, the premier art school for Indian artists. And so I was excited about that, and I remember praying real hard. And I remember like, "Lord, you know, just give me this scholarship," you know? I did everything. I don't drink no more. I don't cuss no more. I don't fight no more, you know? And I was like, you know, thinking like I deserved this. And, um, so my plan was to work construction. I was gonna save up, buy a cheap car, and if I got that scholarship, I was gonna drive down. And my plan was to get there, um- Um, learn some new techniques of art, get exposure, make a lot of money, and life will be great. And so that was my plan. But, um, while I was waiting for, on the application to go through, it's, it was about four months, I was doing construction. And after a couple months I started struggling because, you know, when I got out of rehab I thought everybody else was gonna change, you know. But I get out and everybody's, everything's still the same. Yeah. And, um, and so during that time then I end up hearing that I did get a scholarship. And so I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "Thank you, Lord." And then a opportunity came up to go to Minnesota to Bible College. And so I had two choices. How, h-how did that opportunity come to you? Through who, or- Yeah. So, um, um, so the lady that would come and do Bible studies at the rehab center, um, she got a hold of me and, um, she wanted me to go to, like, a two-week discipleship, um, program. And, um, so I was like, "I don't have two weeks. I'm trying to save up money to go to, to the Santa Fe." And, and but I re- one day I felt like I should go, so I go. And then, um, and then during that, during that process she, she introduced me to a guy who was going around kinda, like, um, recruiting to see if people wanted to come to this, this, um, Bible College. And so they introduced me, and so they're like, "You wanna come?" I said, "Yeah." I was like, "No, I just want to hear about it. I'm, I'm, I'm go- I already-" Yeah. got a plan, you know? You know. But thanks for telling me about this-" No problem. thing. You know, w- hopefully everything goes good for you guys." Yeah. And then, um, but God had His way. And so, um, uh, I ended up going to Minnesota. And then I remember I was struggling the, the first semester because, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I couldn't quote scripture. Um, you know, I was around other people who, who, um, knew more Bible and, you know, prayed and stuff like that, and I felt like I wasn't fitting in at first. And so I was actually gonna, I was thinking like, "Why would God call me up here?" And He called me up to Minnesota on January 2019, and the snow was, like, waist high. And, and I was sitting there struggling, you know, looking outside at all this snow, and I'm looking at pictures of Santa Fe on my phone and it's all nice and sunny, and I'm like, "Man, I made the wrong choice." Yeah. Yeah. And so I was actually thinking about quitting. Um, but then, uh, that summer they, um, encouraged me to stay, um, and I started serving at a youth camp. And I was doing, like, uh, working in the kitchen, doing, like, um, uh, maintenance stuff, you know, like painting cabins and stuff. And, um, during that time- And so then, um, so at times, uh, God brought some special people in my life. Um, what I forgot to mention was that before my daughter died, uh, she told me she wanted to be an organ donor. And so when she died, you know, she, she hung herself in the bathroom, and she was on life support for a couple days. And, um, and when she was on life support, they said that her brain was hemorrhaging and, and, you know, it didn't look good, so we had to make a difficult choice. And so we, we, um, we had to make, make that hard choice to let her go. And then, um, remembered that she wanted to be an organ donor, so we donated her organs. Well, through that, through the, through all that, God worked through that and saved the lives of five women. And so during this whole time Um, my family had learned that you can write to the, to the organ donor recipients. And so the way, the way it's structured is you write to the organization, and then they'll send the letters to them. Yes. Yeah. And so it's kinda, like, anonymous. And, um, and so, um, um, writing these letters, and I, I sent a picture of my daughter and saying, you know, "I'm Jasmine's dad," and, uh, on that picture had her last name on there. And, um, and so I was, I was, like, really hoping, like, it'd be awesome to meet these people. Well, when I was in rehab, um, 'cause I couldn't, I couldn't do tattoos in there, so, uh, someone encouraged me to do painting. And so they bought me a paint set. So I'm painting, and on my daughter's birthday, they took us to a local museum. And while we're there, the... one of the treatment technicians, um, um, called me into the, uh, museum curator's office. And I was like, "Whoa, what's going on?" And she's, "I just showed this lady one of your paintings, and she wanted a copy. Is that okay?" I said, "Yeah." So I gave her permission. Two weeks later, I get a letter from the, the US Department of Interior Arts and Crafts board in Washington, DC, and they asked if I'd be willing to do, uh, an exhibit in, um, a museum in Rapid City, South Dakota at the, the Journey Museum. It's was, it's really a huge museum, really nice. And so I said, "Yeah." And at the time, I only had to did, like, two paintings, and so I had to, you know, put together a bunch of paintings. Well, um, so I get the paintings done, and they're having this art exhibit, and so that goes out on their website. Well, the letter I wrote to one of the organ donor recipients, the lady that received my daughter's lungs, she gets that letter. She see the picture of my daughter. She see the last name on there. And then another letter I wrote, I put my name Mark. So she put the pieces together. She Googles Mark Little up, and then the art exhibit comes up. And then there's a email and stuff to get ahold of me, and so that's how she got hold of me. And then we were able to meet in person. And then she knew, um, uh, the mother of one of the other donor recipients, who was a little girl, um, three-year-old African American girl. They were in the hospital when they got the transplant, and so they met. And so they introduced us, and so we met, and then Organ Donation Foundation wanted to film the story. So they brought a film crew up, and they interviewed our family. And so I have this... met the, this lady who received my daughter's lungs, the little girl who received my daughter's liver, and they brought the lady who received my daughter's heart. And so they had a stethoscope. They said, "Would you like to hear your daughter's heartbeat?" And when they were... it was a powerful time, so I put in the stethoscope, and I listened to the lady's, to my daughter's heartbeat in another person. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Then I heard God say, "I'll never leave you nor forsake you." And I'm sitting there like... And it's like right there in that moment, I met the living God And from that moment I knew that God was real and I had no more doubts, you know? And right then and there it's like I knew that God was real and that people need to know. And I, that day I vowed that I will serve God no matter what that looked like, not knowing that I'd be a pastor someday. But I knew that people needed to know, and that, that I'll spend the rest of my life, you know, telling people about Jesus Christ. And so, so it was a powerful time. And from there I, um, uh, continued my education. I, I graduated with a Bachelor's in Biblical Studies. And during that time God opened the door to go study at Jerusalem University College in Israel. Oh, wow. And so I, I spent a semester abroad there. And so I actually got to live there in Jerusalem. Yeah. I studied the Bible. Studied the Bible. Yeah. And God opened the door for that. And then, um, the church that discipled me, you know, our, our pastor was, um, going through health issues. And so he's, you know, one day, um, he, I asked him, I said, "You know, I had a dream and I..." I said, um, "I, are you leaving?" And he said, "No. I didn't really make this public," but he said, "Because of my health concerns, you know, I'm gonna have to, have to retire." And he said, "But I've been praying that God will put on your heart to be the next pastor." And so he's like, "Well, has God said?" I said, "Well, in that dream God asked me if I would st- step up." And I, and I told God, I said, "God, I'm not a pastor." And, and the Lord said, "Do you trust me?" And I said, "Yeah, I do." Mm. And, uh, so then I ended up becoming the pastor. And then, um, so I was doing that for a few years. And then, um, um, it'd been awesome, um, pastoring in Minnesota. Then, um, I had started teaching archery to kids, so travel around the country teaching archery. And then, um, there was a church in, um, Iowa- Who used to go to my reservation before I was a believer, and my daughter who died, they shared their gospel with her. No way. And so she used to come back from, like, VBS and try to tell me about Jesus, right? And so, um, this church that was kind of following our journey, and one time they asked me to go down and preach. And so one of the first times I started preaching, so I go down there, and when I get done preaching, there were people that... Like, this one lady was in tears, and she said, you know... Well, this-- First, this guy came and he said, "You know, we've been praying for you." And I'm like, "Bro, I don't even know you." And he's like, "You don't understand. We used to go to your community. We knew your family. We knew your daughter." And this lady comes up with tears in her eyes, and she said, "You know, whenever your daughter died," 'cause they said, "When you were locked up, we brought your family down here. Your daughter danced in my living room with my daughter. They were friends." And she said, "When we heard how your daughter died, we were so heartbroken. We thought that was the end of the story." But she said, "We did not know that five years later, God was gonna take that girl's drug-addicted daddy, raise him up, and bring him down here to preach the gospel of Jesus to us." And so they began, um, they-- I began, uh... I was a missionary for them, and so they supported the archery ministry. And, and fast-forward, now I'm their pastor, 'cause their pastor was retiring. They said, "Would you consider coming down to Iowa?" And I was like, at first I was, things were going well in Minnesota, but as I started taking a step back and looking at how God's w- been working- Yeah and how this church played a part in the story. And when I'm talking to this church I'm pastoring now, I said, "I w- I would like to restart that, you know, that connection you guys had to my reservation." And so this, so they said, "Yeah." And so I moved down to Iowa now, and it's just been awesome. I've been connecting with other pastors in the area and s- and, and when I started meeting these other pastors, I met this one pastor, and he said, "Hey." He said, um, "God has been putting on my heart to go do ministry to the reservation in South Dakota, but I don't know what that looks like." And I said, "It's interesting you say that, because that's actually what I-" talk to you about. And so God has already been preparing people. Yes. And so in a couple weeks we're gonna, there's a bunch of churches coming together and we're gonna go to my reservation- I love that minister to community simultaneously and have, you know, VBS and evening services and stuff. And so God is bringing churches together in this, our new context, and I'm really excited. And then when we get back, the next morning we're gonna have a combined worship service where six churches are coming together and we're gonna meet at this big building and have a worship service. So just really, really, um, blessing to see that happen. Man, what a journey God has h- had you on, like- To see God's hand even back then, you know, like I know- Mm-hmm you mentioned your daughter coming to try to witness to you. Mm-hmm. You know, and then the same church, the same people, like to be connected. Now you're pastoring them. Yeah. Only, only, only God. Yes. Right? So h- h- how does life l- look right now? Like, I know you're, you, you got this going on. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, are you married? Uh, single? Like, what, what, what is your, like, personal life right now? Yeah. So, um, recently got married. Um, been married to my wife for a year and a half. Her name is Susanna. Um, she grew up in Minnesota on that reservation I was pastoring at. So I was her parents' pastor for a couple years, and she lived away, and so she would come back and visit. And so one day, um, I met her at, at church, and, um, we started talking. And, um, you know, I, I told her, um, I lived a, a wild life and I, I knew that God was growing me in, um, ministry, but I knew that the area of intimate relationships was somewhere, something that I haven't r- um, really worked on. And so I wanted to take time to work on myself because she is the most emotionally healthy person I ever met. And so, um, I, I knew that I didn't, I didn't... I saw her as God, one of God's daughters. And so I, I wanted to make sure that I was preparing my heart and my life and working on things from my past, um, because I didn't wanna bring those into a relationship with her. S- so, and then, um, and so over the process of a year, we were always on the phone when I was traveling. We would be on the phone all the time, so much where we'd have to hang up because, like, the earbuds would be hurting my ears. Yeah. Our ear, earlobes would die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, um, but through that year I was watching, watching her and how she just loved people. She's a nurse practitioner. Mm. So she's loves her job, but also how she would minister to other people in the community. You know, she would make, um, a big pot of soup and then she'd go around, drive around and take it to elderly people and pray for them. Mm. And it just blew my mind to see her, how genuine she was, you know. So I observed her for a year, and as I watched her, I just fell more and more in love with her. And then one morning the Lord woke me up, said, "Go get your bride." So I went and got a ring, and, um, told her I wanted to do it right. So I went and asked her dad's blessing. Yeah. And when I went to talk to her dad, you know, I told, told him what's going on and asked, you know, asked him if I could marry his daughter. And he said, "You know, sometimes the Lord gives me a word of knowledge." And he said, "Um, this morning the Lord told me you were gonna come and say something like that." So I was like, "Oh, okay." Oh, no way. Look at that. Yeah. It's like cooperation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Lord let him know before you did, huh? Yeah. Yeah. Man. And so, um- So I married her and then, um- Uh, congratulations, my guy. Uh, thank you. And so, um, yeah, uh, when we came down to this, the church I'm pastoring, 'cause I was, um, going around taking her to all of our supporting churches. 'Cause a lot of our supporting, churches that supported me, um, they're all so loving and, and a lot of them were, would pray for me that I would, God would send me a wife. And so I was like, "Hey, this, you know, this is exactly what I've been praying for." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, um, um, and so when we get, get down to Iowa, we're driving to Omaha, and she said, "You know, it wouldn't c- it wouldn't take much to convince me to move down here someday 'cause I've always wanted to move to this area." And I said, "It's interesting you say that 'cause this church is probably asking us that question." And so, um, yeah, it's just another, you know, there's so many confirmations- Yeah that the Lord gave us about moving down there. And, you know, um, she had great peace about it. And, um, so now she's, she's, um, we moved down there and she's, um, working for the, the Ponca Tribe. So she's not native, but she grew up on a reservation. Okay. She, she has a heart for native people. Yes. And she's so awesome. You know, like when we moved to Omaha, we're driving by these huge hospitals and my, in my mind I'm like, "Okay, she's gonna work there and she's gonna have an awesome office and stuff." And so, um, and so I was like, "Where'd you apply?" And she's like, "To the, to the tribal health clinic." I said, "Well, I thought you was gonna work over here." She said, "I could probably get a job there," but she said, "That's where they need the most help." Mm. That just humbled me. I was like, "Wow." Yeah. You know? And so really awesome and, um, she loves her job and she's, um, doing very well there and she's having a great impact there. Amen. Sounds like- Yeah she loves her job and loves the ministry aspect, like- Yeah like you mentioned, she probably could've had a nice office, nice building. Yeah. But man, I wanna go where the, the most help is needed. Man, that, that's, that's, that's awesome to hear. Yes. Now, my guy's doing all this. Now, we met at the CMCA. Mm-hmm. How, how did you get involved in that, uh, uh, co- uh, uh, correctional mi- mi- mi- ministry? Yeah. So, um, after I graduated with my bachelor's, um, I felt like God was calling me to continue my education. I was trying to be resistant 'cause like, "Lord, I've done my papers," you know? And, um, but I felt like it was something the Lord was leading me to. And so when I was thinking about schools, you know, after the bachelor's, I was like, it's not, uh, uh, it gonna do with higher education. I wanted- Uh, it's more about professors. So I was, um, uh, debating on, um, Biola University in California or Wheaton College because of the professors. And so I was coming to, uh, a conference in Naperville, um, and so I, I flew in, and I, I, um, I get, get the rental, and I'm driving, and I look at the map on GPS, and it was close to Wheaton. And so I call, and I said, "Hey, is there any way I can talk to you about master's?" And so they said, "Yeah, come on in." So I get there, and I meet one of the guys in admissions office, and so he started asking questions, and I couldn't get around it without sharing my testimony. So I got to start sharing my testimony. Um, he says, "You know, a couple things." He said, "That degree that you're wanting," he said, "it hasn't been offered online until this fall," 'cause I wanted to be in the Biblical Exegesis program. And he said, "And second thing..." And so he said, "You're coming at the right time." And he said, "Second," he said, "there's, um, because of your past," he said, "there's a ministry on the next floor who gives a, um, a scholarship for that, and it's called, the organization's called the CMCA, and there's a thing called a Scolson, uh, Colson scholarship." Hmm, yeah. And so he- Uh, uh, Chuck Colson, right? Yeah, Chuck Colson. Yes, yes. And so he introduced me to them, and a couple weeks later I have an interview, and I'm doing the process. And then, um, the Lord really opened the door. And so they interviewed me, and then, um, they gave me the scholarship, so I took that as the Lord's, uh, leading because You know, when I, when the Lord was calling me to pursue a master's, like, it, it's expensive, and I said, "I have no idea how I'm gonna get that kind of money." And so the Lord provided a full scholarship. And then, um, and so I've been connection with, um, people at the CMCA and, um, and, um, you know, keeping up with them, giving them life updates and stuff. And then one day, um, when I came to visit Wheaton, I was, I was walking around Wheaton, I just, I called my wife and I was like, "Hey, I really feel like the Lord's gonna call me to preach or something." And I know that sounds crazy, but it's like I had a picture of it. And then, uh, not long after that, they, they, they, uh, got hold of me and said, "Hey, you know, would you be a keynote speaker at our conference- Hmm next year?" And I was like, "Yeah." And so that's how I- And that's where I heard you. Yeah. You, you know what's, what's, uh, crazy you bring up Chuck Colson 'cause, uh, Pastor Manny Mill, uh, like I mentioned, uh, we're here in Koinonia House National Ministries in their office. So his, one of his mentors was Chuck Colson. Oh, wow. So, you know, like, he, he has that connection with him and- That's awesome and here we are, and look at now, you, you're, you're got a, you're the recipient- Yeah of a scholarship named after him. Uh, Chuck Colson, uh, I believe he was under the Nixon administration- Yeah when he got, uh, caught up in Watergate- Yeah and all that. Did, did some federal prison time, I think. Came to the Lord, and- Hmm his heart was for, uh, for prisoners, so he did a lot of, like, prison ministry and- Yeah and for you to be a recipient, and like I said, uh, Pastor Manny Mill, who, who now, now why is, uh, is the connection is, uh, not funny, but you know God's hand's in it. Yeah. Because when I started this podcast, um, I, I have been incarcerated previously, uh, three years, but that was back in from 1997 to 2000. Hmm. Uh, I, I went back out to the streets. Um, by God's grace I didn't go back to prison even though I went back to that same lifestyle. But, uh, 2004 I get saved, so it's been over 20 years- Hmm of following the Lord. I start the podcast not knowing what I'm doing, just by faith. Interview one person that connects me to another person, who eventually connects me with Pastor Manny Mill- Hmm who connects me with more people that are involved in his ministry, with his prison ministry. And from there, like, God, like, "Okay, I cleaned you up. Now I'm sending you back." Amen. So now I've been doing prison ministry for, like, the last three years. And it just, it's almost like full circle, like- Yeah man, like, it's amazing what God does. Uh, but man, it's, it's, it's, it's a blessing to hear your story. Hmm. Uh, is there anything that we didn't get a, a, a chance to talk about yet that you wanna share before we get ready to wrap up? Um- Anything you wanna share, you know, with the listeners? Yeah, just, um, you know, we're, we're really encouraged. Um, uh- You know, face a lot of challenges though on, on this road. And you know, one thing I, I guess if I was to tell anyone but anything, it's just persevere and trust in the Lord. You know, Apostle Paul says stay strong in the Lord and, and our, our trust in God must, must be, must be strong because we're all gonna face those challenges. You know, we have things from our, our past, our past thinking and behaviors and things like that, that, and the enemy tries to use to trip us up. But then, um, we just gotta keep remember to trust God. There are times where, you know, even in pastoral ministry where sometimes, you know, I, I could get frustrated or overwhelmed and, and especially with things, you know, the future, not knowing what the future holds. And so, um, whenever I get that way, I just say, you know, to myself and either under my breath or in my mind, I say, "I trust you, God. I trust you," because God can, can be trusted. And, and I hope that If anything good comes out of hearing my testimony is that, that you can trust God too. There are times I didn't know, um, what was gonna happen or, you know, um, like even w- the story with my wife. You know, I, I, I've always longed to have a, a... the Bible says a suitable mate, and I didn't know that, if that was ever gonna happen for me. And so I had to even surrender that, that part of my life and to say, "God, I trust you. You know, you're a good God, and you, you know better, you know better than I do, and your ways are higher than our ways." And so, so whatever comes your way, you know, if that's any help or encouragement to you to say, "I trust you, Lord. I trust you because you're the God of Heaven, you know, the creator of heaven and Earth. You can move mountains." And so there's nothing too small or too great that the Lord, um, cannot work through. And so with the mundane things or with the colossal obstacles in your life, you know, those are things that we can surrender to the Lord and, and, um, and cultivate a strong prayer life. You know, talk to God, you know, and, and pray for your family. I know some, some of you are probably praying for, um, a, a loved one who is i- you know, is not a believer right now. But, you know, my mom passed away, and, uh, the last word she gave to my sisters was, "Pray for your brother Mark that he may know Jesus." And my mom didn't get to see that, but s- my sisters inherited those prayers, and they kept praying. And, and now, now I'll see my mom in heaven, you know? And so keep, keep praying for those who you love because God can do some awesome things, and, and God can save, you know, the, those who seem unsavable. I, I was one of those guys, and, and I was without hope. And another thing I would s- ask is that you pray for my Native American people, that, that many of them will come to know the Lord. And, um, and, um, I'm encouraged to, um, s- if the Lord puts on your heart about how to get involved in Native American ministry, you know, there's, uh, you know, the, the harvest is ready. You know, the laborers are few. And so thanks for listening. You know, God bless you. Amen, Pastor. Th- th- th- thanks for that. And with speaking on all that prayer, we like usually close out this, uh, podcast with a prayer. Would you mind closing us out? Yeah. That's great. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Dear Holy Father, Lord, we thank you for this opportunity. Lord, I thank you for my brother. Lord, just, uh, what you're doing through him. And Lord, I just pray that you'll use this podcast to encourage many. Lord, there are people out there who are feeling either lost, maybe distant from God or, or who just need a word of encouragement, Lord, but you can do all things, Lord. And, and so I pray that you use this podcast to bring glory to your name, that if anything good comes out of this, Lord, we are just planters and waterers, Lord, but we trust you for the growth. And so Lord, we just, um, submit everything we do to you, Lord, that people, the main goal will be that people will be pointed to Jesus Christ and his power to save, his power to heal, Lord, his, um, salva- salvific work, Lord. And so we pray that this podcast, Lord, that you use it to, to reach those who may not have a relationship with you. Lord, that those who do not know you personally, Lord, Lord, that they hear the testimonies and, and, and see, Lord, that, that they are not too far gone. They are not too far out of your reach, Lord. That they hear the gospel message, Lord, that you sent your Son, Lord, you so loved the world, Lord, that you would send your Son to die on the cross, that he died on a cross and was buried and put in the tomb, but three days later, he resurrected, proving that he was God, and that we believe in faith that story, and that we repent of our sins, Lord, that we receive eternal life. And Lord, that the Lord didn't leave us alone. Lord, that you give us your Holy Spirit to lead, guide, direct us, to sanctify us, to set apart and make us holy. So Holy Father, we just thank you for all that you're doing. Thank you for my brother. And Lord, I pray, Lord, you- your best for those who are listening and ask this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. In Jesus' name. Tha- tha- tha- uh, thank you very much, Pastor. Thank you for your time. Yeah. Man, man, it's been a blessing to be able to hear your testimony and to share your testimony. Mm-hmm. And so we just wanna thank you. And with that, we're gonna get ready to wrap up. Uh, Matthew 4:16 reads, "The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light, and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death, light has dawned." Alongside Pastor Mark Little Elk, I'm Omar, Omar Calvillo, and through Jesus Christ, we've gone from darkness to light and from wrong to strong.