Hoorf! Radical Care in a Late-Capitalist Heckscape

war, gender, and disability; a conversation with artist Charlie Reynolds

• Elle Billing • Season 3 • Episode 1

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Content note: discussions of homophobia, sexual violence, military service

Guess who's back and ready to dive into the beautiful mess of life and art? It's your favorite chronically ill queer femme, Elle Billing, kicking off Season 3 of Hoorf! Podcast. This time, they're chatting with Charlie Reynolds, a conceptual artist and MFA candidate at the University of Michigan. Charlie, a recipient of the 2024 Midwest Award for Artists with Disabilities, creates art that tackles the heavy stuff - war, gender, and disability - using materials that hold personal meaning. Charlie also opens up about his journey as a veteran, navigating the choppy waters of PTSD and how his experience in the Navy is the one muse that just won’t let him go.

Links to Charlie’s work, as well as all other resource links, are in the full show notes at hoorfpodcast.com

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Elle Billing:

Hi. My name is Elle Billing. I am a chronically ill queer femme, and I'm tired. I'm here this episode, and every episode, to dig at the roots of our collective fatigue, explore ways to direct our care in compassionate and sustainable ways, and to harness creative expression to heal ourselves and to heal our world. Welcome to Hoorf: radical care in the late capitalist heckscape. My guest for this episode is Charlie Reynolds. Charlie Reynolds is a conceptual artist who explores themes of war, gender and disability using fibers, installations and sculpture. He seeks to invite viewers to investigate the limitations of the body and the euphoria of breaking free from it. His art and developing practices reflect the struggle to reconcile his identity and his abilities. Charlie draws inspiration from the tradition of arte povera, incorporating meaningful or sentimental materials into projects, giving them a new purpose and life, while also considering an object's history. Charlie is an MFA candidate at the University of Michigan, where he hopes to expand his practice with a specific interest in weaving, hand-dyeing and quilting. He's exploring the history of transgender rights and medicine through his art, with a particular interest in the current anti trans laws in the United States. Having fled such laws in Tennessee, he is ready to use this time to fight. Charlie is one of the nine recipients of the 2024 Midwest Award for Artists with Disabilities, and I am really, really excited to talk to him about his art practice today on the podcast. Welcome to the show. Hello, Charlie. Welcome to Hoorf.

Charlie Reynolds:

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, thanks for being here. I'm really excited to have you on the podcast. You are my first interview of season three. I'm so excited.

Charlie Reynolds:

Thanks so much.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, so for those who don't know, which would be everybody, because this is the first episode of the season, Charlie and I were both winners of the 2024 Midwest Award for Artists with Disabilities, which was announced this summer. And like that was like, I don't know, I don't know about you, but like that was a huge honor for me. It was a pretty big deal in my life, and so I wanted to interview other recipients of the award about their art practice and about their lives, and I was really happy that Charlie replied almost immediately to my email, which I always like as a podcast host, is getting replies to my emails. So I'm excited to have you here today.

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah. I mean, I was very surprised to first of all get the award, and then to get your email. I was excited to talk to the other awardees. It's actually really funny when I got the email that I got the award the very next day, I got an email saying I didn't get it.

Elle Billing:

So did I!

Charlie Reynolds:

You did too?

Elle Billing:

Yeah, I think we all did.

Charlie Reynolds:

And so I had a panic attack, like, for like an hour, and so I was on the phone with them, like, hello. What's going on? Like, thinking like, oh, how could they do this to me, making me think I didn't get it. And then as they got on the phone with me, I got that third email saying, Oh, we're so sorry. We made a mistake. You definitely did get it. And the guy was on the phone was like, we're so sorry for any, any heartache that we caused, but it was just a mistake email. But I was just like, you can't do this to me. I have PTSD, I have, I have seizures, I have, I have problems, like, I have a panic disorder,

Elle Billing:

right? I i also have anxiety and but I'm, I'm so busy with taking care of my-- I didn't even have time to worry about it, like, so, like, I got the-- I read the correction email before I read the one where they said I didn't get it. And so, like, I read them out of order. And I was like, Oh, well, that would have upset me.

Charlie Reynolds:

No, I screenshot it. I send it to group chats. And I was like, you guys, like, I had already celebrated and everything.

Elle Billing:

Oh, yeah, like I had told my parents. I was like, I can't talk about this anywhere else. Oh, and then I told my sister, because she and I both have the habit of like, well, we know this about each other. We can't hold on to surprises. Like, we'll buy each other a gift and then immediately be like, I bought you the coolest thing. So, yeah, when I read the second email that was like, sorry about the email that we sent that said you didn't get the award. You really did get it. And I was like, oh, there was drama. I'm glad I missed that.

Charlie Reynolds:

I lived the full experience.

Elle Billing:

I'm sorry you had to take that one for the team. I'm sure that stressed out everybody who actually got it in real time, because, I mean, it's also a grant, and so like disabled people, as we know and live, are underemployed very often. And most grants that we apply for are there's restrictions attached to them, like, you have to spend them in certain ways. And this one is just like, here we love you, have some money, and it's very exciting. And then so, like, because, like, I'm sure you were immediately making plans,

Charlie Reynolds:

oh, oh, absolutely.

Elle Billing:

And then the next day to be like, none of them plans can happen.

Charlie Reynolds:

Oh yeah. And I had immediately like, oh, well, Serves you right for thinking that you were gonna buy all those uniforms and all that fabric with that money. Serves you right. Charlie,

Elle Billing:

yeah, nope. I totally understand the thought process.

Charlie Reynolds:

And then it was just like, Oh, just kidding, and I'm like, playing with my emotions.

Elle Billing:

Oh yeah. I mean, it's I like, I know how it happens, though, because the way email management systems work, like Flodesk or ConvertKit, or any of those, like list organizers, if they had forgotten to take us out of the list before they sent the mass email that said, thank you for applying. That's probably what happened. And then like, oh shoot, we forgot to take nine people off that-- nine very specific people off that list.

Charlie Reynolds:

They're like, hurry, hurry, hurry. But at that point, I was like, until I'm on their website, I don't believe it.

Elle Billing:

That's yeah, I understand. So now that we've talked about all of the things that can screw up our week, I would like to know, how have you received care, my question that I ask everybody, and I love getting the answers to it, how have you received care this week?

Charlie Reynolds:

So, professionally, I have a nurse that comes over every week to fill out my med planner. I have shots that I get every week, kind of unprofessionally, my husband is my caregiver, and this week he got to do something fun and I dislocated my knee from bending over. I have Ehlers-Danlos, so I dislocate my joints a lot, yep, but usually not my knee. Usually you have like joints that you dislocate a lot. For me, it's usually my shoulders and my hips, but the knee is a new one that's been popping up, and he got to relocate that. And it was particularly brutal. And like, afterwards, he was just kind of like, you know, it was one of those that, like, when he put it back in, there was a little bit of, like, screaming, and there was a good, like, crunch noise. And because I'm at the point that, like, I just can't go to the hospital every time I have a dislocation, because it's just like

Elle Billing:

so many of them

Charlie Reynolds:

every other day. So he, he gets to act as my bone relocator, and he's getting pretty good at it, but

Elle Billing:

that's the-- I think a different, I think disabled love has a different kind of intimacy that the ableds don't understand or experience until it happens to them.

Charlie Reynolds:

I mean, like, yeah, that like, he just knows, like, okay, like, it's time, time to just, like, put your bones back in. And he just knows, like, how to do every joint. And like, I might pass out, I might have a seizure, I'm probably gonna scream and like, it's just something that he does with love and care. And he does it, like, automatically, often something that I'm not even like, conscious through, because I'm usually so in pain, like, so out of it that I don't even really know that it's happening.

Elle Billing:

Wow, that's, that's, that's intense. I'm glad that he was able to do that for you. Though, how's like, how does your knee feel now? Like, once it's back in, does it settle down, or does it stay sore?

Charlie Reynolds:

It usually. Yeah, it will be sore for like a day or two, depending. There are some cases where, like, we'll put it in wrong and it will, like, hit a muscle, or it will hit, like a nerve. And I'll pretty much know that right away, yeah, um, and there have been times where I'll have to pop it back out, and we'll have to pop it back in, and that is agony. But, man, that usually happens, like once a year, maybe twice a year. But that's, I mean, that's it. It's rare, because at this point my joint, my joints are just so hypermobile that they just go in and out really easily.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, my sister just was recently in a vehicle collision and had to go to the chiropractor, and she called me afterwards, and she goes, you're never gonna believe what the chiropractor said to me, and I was like, I probably will. She's like, he asked me if my joints have always been this mobile. And I was like, I told you, because several years ago, I was like, Hey, have you ever looked at Ehlers Danlos? And she's like, Yeah, I don't think so. And now she's like, I think I might have Ehlers Danlos.

Charlie Reynolds:

It's, It's crazy. It's crazy. How many of my friends have it now?

Elle Billing:

Yeah, yep, the more we learn. It's one of those things where, like, we're at that point where, like, the more we learn about it, we're at that point where, like, so many people are, like, actually, I think, honestly, like the Venn diagram of my friends who are autistic and my friends who have Ehlers Danlos is like a circle that gets a completely overlap, almost a completely overlapping Venn diagram.

Charlie Reynolds:

I can't tell you how many friends I had at school that would be like, man, like, I have so much trouble eating. I have like, so many like, allergies now, and I'd be, I'd just turn around and be like, you know, I think you might have gastroparesis. And then I would talk to them more and find out, like, they have a lot of commonalities for Ehlers Danlos, and I'm just like, you know, like they're comorbid. And you start just like, racking up these diagnosis and like, they start sounding like me,

Elle Billing:

yeah, sounds like your connective tissue doesn't work right.

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah, because all of your internal organs are connective tissue. And so if your joints are hypermobile, there's a good chance that you're going to have problems with, you know, your gastric system.

Elle Billing:

Yeah. And then for some of us too, that impacts our reproductive system as well, which my sister and I both have that fun going on as well. So you just, you just got back to school, and you are studying for your MFA in art, yes,

Charlie Reynolds:

yes,

Elle Billing:

yes, okay, you're also a veteran, right? I'm giving a little background. Were you an artist before you were in the military, or is this like a post military endeavor?

Charlie Reynolds:

I didn't actually start making art until I became disabled...

Elle Billing:

Oh, okay.

Charlie Reynolds:

[disabled] in the military

Elle Billing:

Okay, so that does lead into my next question. Then, so, how does your disability like inform your art? And then how has your art like influenced how you see your disability and how you like live with your disability? Can you talk about that?

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah. Um, so I, I come from an artist family, but it never really occurred to me, um, to pursue art. My first memories are of my mom's sketching. My grandma actually wins awards for her paintings, but I had, like, never really considered art myself, but when I became disabled, I just suddenly had, like, all this time on my hands. And like, I had a disabled body, and I just had nothing to do. And, like, I could only watch so much TV,

Elle Billing:

yeah

Charlie Reynolds:

so, like, I just started painting my favorite thing, which was my service dog. And I just started painting him, like, over and over and over. And then I just started branching out. I started painting other things. And the one thing I like to stick to, as far as my art is, I like to make things that I can physically make. And what I mean by that is, like other artists will sometimes, like, outsource things. So like, say, you're a painter, but you want some, like, metal work. So you'll ask a metal worker to make that thing for you, but for. Me, I feel like really conceptually drawn to things that I can make with my own hand. So, like, if my disability prevents me from woodworking or metalworking, I'm going to find ways around it. I'm not going to include that in my work. It's meaningful to me to create something from start to finish. So without my disability, my art wouldn't exist. And my art is created through the unique problems that my disability creates. That's what makes my art, my art, and nobody else can make it.

Elle Billing:

That's really cool. So what kinds of-- so what are some of the projects you are working on in grad school?

Charlie Reynolds:

A lot of my work right now, I'm really focused on fibers. I started weaving with a digital loom, but I've I torn, I tore a lot of tendons in my arm this summer, and that's very like upper body heavy. So I've switched right now to quilting. So I'm making a bunch of quilts because it's a lot less strenuous on my arm. But my like, the concepts are all around my military service right now, it's kind of just what I have to talk about. It's what I have to get out of me, almost like bile. I guess it's just like this foreign object that I have to get out. I talked about it in my undergrad thesis, and I really thought that, like, I would be done with the topic. I had taken what was left of my military uniforms, and I had burned them, and I had combined them with wax and made a bunch of forms. And I was like, Okay, I'm done with my uniforms. I'm done thinking about the military. I've moved on. It's over, and then I took a year off, and I applied for my masters. And during that year off, all I could think about was my military service, and I just realized that I wasn't done. I was like, I don't know when I was going to be done, but I just knew I wasn't done yet. I had to keep talking about it, because it was still bothering me, and I had to get it out, and art was the only way that I knew how to talk about it. I have some pretty severe PTSD from that time, and I just the only way for me to process was by making. I started as painter, and then I slowly, kind of moved to fibers, weaving, sewing, quilting,

Elle Billing:

yeah, when we were prepping for this, we talked a little bit about how you know, as a veteran artist, people usually expect one thing, or often expect one thing, and then your experience as a veteran artist is often quite different from what people are expecting. How do you approach those kinds of conversations?

Charlie Reynolds:

I really hesitate to identify as a veteran artist,

Elle Billing:

yeah, I guess listeners won't know that I was using quote fingers. I said that because that that is, that's a really loaded, that's a really loaded identification label, because it does come with a lot of expectations.

Charlie Reynolds:

I like to refer to myself as disabled artists or queer artists first, just because I have so much regret about my service, and just now, I'm starting to get more comfortable getting back into some veteran circles. To me, there's two types of people that generally join the military. There's people that are very patriotic, and then there's like the underprivileged. Um, when I enlisted, I feared for my life. Um, my parent had tried to kill me, and I decided I wasn't going to give them another chance. I was a young, queer kid with nowhere to go, so the military just seemed like the best option. Um, in a lot of ways, the Navy saved me, but at the same time, like, I was taken away from one abuser, and I was like, kind of thrown to the wolves. I presented as female when I was in the military, and I was, like, deeply, in the closet, and I was sexually assaulted multiple, multiple times. So because of this, like when I got out, I was super suspicious of veteran communities, because, like when I looked at these guys, I kind of saw the guys that assaulted me, so like I didn't trust them, and I also saw the people that didn't believe me when I tried to report. So with my work being so anti war and anti military, I just never know how other veterans are gonna feel about it. But this year, I joined about face, which is post-9/11 veteran anti war group. And I do feel like it kind of settled my soul a little bit in a way, because I finally found, like some other veterans that I could talk to that were like my age and like minded, that were like finally understanding what I was saying. It's made me a little bit more hopeful. I think the death of Aaron Bushnell was really, like, what triggered me to seek the group, the group out? Yeah, and I know that, like a bunch of other people, I know that they had, like, a flux of veterans joining at that point. So I know that I wasn't the only one, and I don't know that I would have reached out otherwise,

Elle Billing:

Yeah, he was the service member who self immolated, yes?

Charlie Reynolds:

yes

Elle Billing:

okay. I just wanted to make sure for myself and for people who are listening, yeah, I have, I'm not in the military. I have not been in the military, but I had, you know, like you said, people in our generation, the post-9/11 military and veterans. Yeah, there's, there were kind of that those two groups, the people who were underprivileged and the ones who were super patriotic, and our generation, my friends, who did enlist. There's also seems to be, at least in my experience, two groups. There's the groups like that you would fit into who came back and were regretful of their service and fairly traumatized and isolated and more inclined to join About Face. And then the other group are the ones who probably experienced a similar crisis of conscience of some kind. But instead of reversing course, they doubled down and couldn't reconcile, because they couldn't reconcile what they thought before and what they know now. They just had to ignore the new information that they received about the military by being in it, which is at least what I've noticed in the last 20 years, since people from my cohort have joined, enlisted and retired or left. Not very many have become artists, though, a few, I have a few that are making art. But I'm really sorry about I'm really sorry like that, that's such a cliched term. But like, you know what I mean, like that, all of that. Yeah, that's really shitty. It's like a thing we hear about, but then when you meet somebody who has lived that,

Charlie Reynolds:

it's weird telling younger kids now that I that I served when Don't Ask, Don't Tell, was around and I served when it was repealed as well, but I did a, I actually did a project in undergrad about it. And, you know, the the 20-somethings, which I, I will say, I don't, I don't blame them for not knowing. But you know, the 20-somethings in my class, they were all coming up to me to ask me what it was. So I had to amend my artist statement to explain what the policy was, which it's not their fault for not knowing, but it just changed my perspective of like, oh, this was something that was in my lifetime, and now it's history, and it's something that I have to explain

Elle Billing:

That was only President Obama that repealed it.

Charlie Reynolds:

2013

Elle Billing:

yeah

Charlie Reynolds:

is when it was repealed.

Elle Billing:

That's only been 11 years!

Charlie Reynolds:

yeah, and it's, it's like, I mean, I believe it was Clinton that started it.

Elle Billing:

That sounds right,

Charlie Reynolds:

because it was, I did 17 posters for 17 years.

Elle Billing:

That's almost a full generation. They say generations are roughly 20 years. So

Charlie Reynolds:

yeah, institute-- instituted during the Clinton Administration. Um, so it's, it's like seeing your life become history in real time.

Elle Billing:

I Experienced some of that when I was teaching, actually quite a bit of that when I was teaching. Because, like, you know, these kids were born some some of them when I was, like, in college, or, like, some of the kids were born when I was had started teaching, and then they, got to me as a teacher, and I was like, you are like, I'm explaining things that happened, and they're like, that's so long ago. I meant, like telling kids who were born in the early aughts that I was born in the 80s was like mind blowing to them.

Charlie Reynolds:

I mean, in, like, in the 2010s I knew people that like, married their quote, unquote fag hags for, like, military benefits and to, like, keep their cover, wow. But like to tell kids that today, it makes me feel like an old man.

Elle Billing:

It's like when we're somehow the queer elders and but we're still looking around for someone adultier than we are to explain how things work.

Charlie Reynolds:

Absolutely, yeah,

Elle Billing:

And that's how I feel. Okay, you being in the Navy makes the Fleet Week thing click. I mean, I kind of figured you must have been, yeah, I mean, I figured you must have been in the Navy, but so you

Charlie Reynolds:

it was, it was recently mentioned. Sorry,

Elle Billing:

no, go ahead. Funny. I mentioned NCIS,

Charlie Reynolds:

yes, because I watched it. I watched so much NCIS before I went into the Navy, almost like I thought it was gonna prep me or something.

Elle Billing:

Oh, man, we we watch so much NCIS here I, a friend of mine actually sent me a TikTok, and it was a video of like two Boomer aged people napping in their recliners, and NCIS was on the TV. And the caption said, NCIS is Cocomelon for Boomers.

Charlie Reynolds:

Oh, my God, it really is like a pacifier, though, isn't it?

Elle Billing:

Yeah, we watch a lot of NCIS here, and I like, we watch a lot of procedurals here, and I enjoy doing my own personal critical analysis of a lot of them. Sometimes it's just candy.

Charlie Reynolds:

I saw. I saw a meme recently that was like, A C A B means Abby too.

Elle Billing:

I know it's like, oh, not Abby!!! yeah, but, I mean, I think that one probably hurts a lot of people because they're like, Yeah, well, but she's cool. She's she's not a cop,

Charlie Reynolds:

no, but she's goth

Elle Billing:

Yep, goth cop,

Charlie Reynolds:

not my goth cop, yep.

Elle Billing:

Oh, so anyway, speaking-- The reason NCIS -- for everybody else listening in-- the reason NCIS came up in our conversation is because that was my only-- I'm kind of embarrassed to say that -- is my only, like schema, my only background knowledge of Fleet Week is because it would come up every so often on an episode of NCIS. You went out to Fleet Week to do research, which is what you had mentioned to me. And I was like, oh, Fleet Week. I know what that is, because I've watched NCIS. I am a cultured American. I know there's more to it than what they show on TV, and I know that NCIS is not an accurate representation of the justice system or the justice system within the US military. There's my disclaimer. So what can you share about your research trip?

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah, so Fleet Week is-- so I went to New York's Fleet Week. Fleet Week is in a bunch of different cities, yeah, but I went to New York's this year. Fleet Week is like a time honored tradition of the Navy, Marine and Coast Guard, where recently deployed ships will dock in major cities for a week. The ships become, like, open to the public, so you can go and tour them. And like, usually, they'll set up demonstrations. Like the dive teams will do demos, and like ordinance teams, like the US Navy Fleet will do, like, band concert stuff like that. I was actually supposed to go to Fleet Week back in, like, 2013 I think the San Francisco one, and I got discharged, like, right before we were supposed to go. So it's kind of like the finishing of something for me a little bit, but it was also an opportunity for me to, like, step foot on a ship again and kind of like, reintegrate myself into military culture. I took a ton of photos, I kept a sketch journal, and I spoke to a bunch of sailors. All the research is going to like my thesis this year, and I'm tentatively planning a fiber recreation of the ship that I served on.

Elle Billing:

You said, a fiber recreation?

Charlie Reynolds:

Yes, like a fabric...

Elle Billing:

I was just-- Yep, no, I Yeah. I was just making sure my brain had caught that correctly

Charlie Reynolds:

I might have stumbled on the word.

Elle Billing:

I think my, I think my brain is the thing that stumbled. I don't think it was you.

Charlie Reynolds:

I like, I like making my creations out of, like, uniforms, specifically,

Elle Billing:

yeah,

Charlie Reynolds:

because I like the materials that I use to have, like, a meaning or memory to them. I especially like it if they're like, stained or like there's holes in them, because to me, like, that's like, there's memories in that. Yeah. So I want to make this recreation out of the uniforms, and so that's what all this research was going to I think it will be really cathartic to create it and then be able to, like, fold it up and put it away.

Elle Billing:

That's really compelling. I understand what you mean about using things that have memory to them. I use a lot of vintage books in my artwork. The pages end up collaged in between the layers of paint. I collect vintage dictionaries because, well, I'm a, I used to be a reading teacher, so I like words and language, and I like old archaic-- I like books that have archaic ideas in them that we don't, hopefully don't ascribe to anymore.

Charlie Reynolds:

I really love books that have marginalia in them.

Elle Billing:

Yes, those are really,

Charlie Reynolds:

that's what I Yeah, whenever I'm at a used bookstore, that's what I look for. If it has a bunch of marginalia, I'm like, Oh, this is mine now.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, those are fun too. I actually one of my favorite finds from the last few years was a old copy from like, the 20s of Gray's Anatomy and Physiology.

Charlie Reynolds:

I have a Gray's Anatomy too, yeah,

Elle Billing:

but it had, what's what I love about it is that the guys who owned it, his name was in the front cover, and he was a local rancher, farmer-rancher who, like, bred and developed his own breed of beef cattle. So, like, his name was super familiar to me, because I grew up around here, and, like, everyone knows these cattle. And so like, this guy was, like, actually, like, into biology and animal breeding and stuff. And so it was, like, his copy of Grey's Anatomy. And I was like, Yeah, I got it for a quarter at the library sale. Like, that was a great find. I added it to my collection. Like, so I so I absolutely get what you mean by like, having thing, like stuff that has memory and provenance and like significance, even if it's like that book, yeah, Gray's Anatomy is cool. People know what Grey's Anatomy and Physiology is. But that specific copy means something to the people in my town of 800 people, yeah. And so it means something to me. You know, I get it. I get it. I think that's really cool. I'm going to be interested to follow that project on Instagram or wherever, or wherever you post it or put it. Before we get to the last question, is there anything else that you wanted to share about your art practice or about your experience in the Navy, or anything else about your life you want to share

Charlie Reynolds:

very open ended question,

Elle Billing:

or like, where we can follow you on social media? Like, that's a really more specific one.

Charlie Reynolds:

Oh, well, that's yes. You can follow me at paints charlie on Instagram.

Elle Billing:

Great.

Charlie Reynolds:

And I also have a website, charliereynoldsstudio.com

Elle Billing:

All right, I will put those in the show notes. So that was at paintscharlie on Instagram and charliereynoldsstudio.com

Charlie Reynolds:

Yes

Elle Billing:

Great. So everyone should go follow Charlie. Go follow Charlie. I'm stumbling on my words today too. I'd probably need more coffee or less. Who knows,

Charlie Reynolds:

I'm on my second cup.

Elle Billing:

I have to drink about the same amount every day because of my migraines, because if I alter how much caffeine, it's because it's a vasoconstrictor. I just have a very delicate brain.

Charlie Reynolds:

I can't have any hot coffee, so I can only have ice. Oh,

Elle Billing:

is that a gastro thing?

Charlie Reynolds:

I can't I can't really stand like having hot, hot coffee. It just, oh, that's one thing I've lost that's too bad, just too intense. I

Elle Billing:

mean, I wouldn't mind in the summer so much, but like in the winter, I would really miss it.

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah, I'm I'm that bitch that it's like three degrees out, I'm getting like, an ice latte, and they're looking at me like, What is wrong with you? And I'm like, just don't worry about it.

Elle Billing:

You're like, it's okay. I'm gay.

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah, I'm like, I'm just super gay. Don't worry about it.

Elle Billing:

You're like, I'm the reason for the meme of people.

Charlie Reynolds:

But I just, I can never handle it, like I would just, I'll just, you know, just comes right back up. Just too, too strong. I mean, because my my coffee is very, very watered down. I mean, it's not really coffee at that point.

Elle Billing:

And I grew up with farmer coffee, so when I make my coffee in the morning, it's two shots of espresso and just it's not even an Americano. I don't even add enough water for that.

Charlie Reynolds:

That's how my husband is. But I mean, I didn't drink coffee until I was on the ship. And it was just desperation at that point, because they would have us up all night. And then it was, it was so cold that, like I was like, I have to drink something.

Elle Billing:

Warm me up from the inside.

Charlie Reynolds:

And, I mean, they get gross about stuff too. I mean, if you ever wash like a chief's mug, they say, like, the coffee is a flavor. So sometimes they would try to, like, trick the the youngest guy and be like, hey, go wash chief's mug. And it's like, like a big sin, because the chiefs, like, try to, like, keep, like a grime going in their mugs, and you ruin it

Elle Billing:

like a cast iron pan. But worse,

Charlie Reynolds:

oh yeah, but worse, yeah, like you ruin the flavor, and chiefs go crazy if you wash their mug. Wash their mug, yeah? So they, every once in a while look at somebody

Elle Billing:

like someone new, who doesn't know?

Charlie Reynolds:

yeah, because everybody does a rotation in the chief's mess.

Elle Billing:

Gotcha

Charlie Reynolds:

I was in the officer mess, okay, which was awful. I had a officer whistle at me like I was a dog. And so the chef put his taco on the floor and then served it to him.

Elle Billing:

You're gonna whistle like a dog, eat like one.

Charlie Reynolds:

Yeah.

Elle Billing:

All right, we have one last question. So I'm wondering, what is one true thing that you have learned from your creative practice?

Charlie Reynolds:

So I think my one true thing would be that, you know, art doesn't have to be like a stay up all night, drink five coffees in a row, like grind, especially in art school, there is so much pressure to compete and to work harder than the next person. It's definitely not disability friendly. I've had to shout for myself every step of the way, but there has to be space for people like us, artists that have to like rest and take breaks, artists that have to alter equipment. And part of the reason why I decided to pursue my masters was because I didn't see people like me in these spaces when I, like looked around. So I decided to, like, make space. So I think that's my one true thing is that, like disabled people can make art, and we should, and there's space for us there. And like, we don't have to try to keep up or try to do the same thing as people that can stay up all night and, like, put their bodies to the limit. Just because they can do that doesn't mean that we should, or that we should try to keep up with that. You know, we can go our own pace. We can take longer on projects, and that's fine. And, I mean, it's taken me a long time to learn that, and I still have to remind myself

Elle Billing:

thank you for saying all that. That's perfect. Yeah, that's all of that. I resonate with that really strongly. And I would add that even the people who aren't disabled like us, who could conceivably push their bodies to the limit and work all night, they don't have to. They can rest too.

Charlie Reynolds:

I agree, and I think that, like, the less that we push that kind of culture, the better it is for everybody. I think so. I mean, when you include accommodations, it affects everybody, not just the disabled people in the room,

Elle Billing:

yep. Thank you so much for being here, I really appreciate our conversation.

Charlie Reynolds:

Thank you so much for having me.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, this was fun. I hope you have a great year.

Charlie Reynolds:

Thank you. I feel like we're friends already.

Elle Billing:

I think so too. I'm so glad we connected. Congrats on the award.

Charlie Reynolds:

Thanks you too.

Elle Billing:

I hope your... is it still like a thesis, or is it more like a project or a dissertation? When you do an MFA,

Charlie Reynolds:

this would be a thesis

Elle Billing:

a thesis, all right. Well, I hope your thesis and the boat and all of that goes really well for you.

Charlie Reynolds:

Thanks so much.

Elle Billing:

I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Charlie Reynolds:

I'll definitely keep in touch.

Elle Billing:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hoorf. To get the complete show notes and all the links mentioned on today's episode, or to get a full transcript of the episode, visit hoorfpodcast.com Join the Blessed Herd of St

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Contributor

Ricki Cummings

Producer