Hoorf! Radical Care in a Late-Capitalist Heckscape

support and success are not mutually exclusive; why independence is overrated, with guest Virginia Townsend

• Elle Billing • Season 3 • Episode 4

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Content note: this episode discusses experiences with mental illness

On this episode, we meet Virginia Townsend, the artist behind the vibrant creations of Bunnie Rabbitte, whose story illustrates how support and success are not mutually exclusive. In a wide-ranging conversation about art and mental health, Virginia opened up about the daily reality of creating while living with PTSD. Like many artists navigating disability, Virginia's journey includes managing sleep disorders and triggers that disrupt the flow of her day. Through sharing her experiences, Virginia highlights a truth that often gets overlooked: disability needs aren't one-size-fits-all, and our support systems shouldn't be either. Her advocacy for integrated, comprehensive care services speaks to something bigger than just accessing help; it's about creating the conditions where disabled artists don't just survive - they thrive and create remarkable work that enriches our world.

Links to Virgina’s website, as well as all other resource links, are in the full show notes at hoorfpodcast.com

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Elle Billing:

Hi. My name is Elle Billing. I am a chronically ill queer femme, and I'm tired. I'm here this episode and every episode to dig at the roots of our collective fatigue, explore ways to direct our care in compassionate and sustainable ways, and to harness creative expression to heal ourselves and to heal our world. Welcome to Hoorf: Radical Care in a Late-Capitalist Heckscape. My guest for this episode is Twin Cities- Metro based artist Virginia Townsend, who creates under the moniker Bunnie Rabbitte. Virginia paints from her experience with mental health, illness, disability and her own unique vision of recovery. Born to parents living with mental illness, Virginia honed her critical thinking skills early by discerning between her parents' hallucinations, illusions, and reality. In her artisticwork, Virginia uses this skill to play with concepts of objective truth and perception and how they intertwine in mental health recovery communities. Since 2019 Virginia has been creating art full time with her current practice, supported by MSS, a progressive day program supporting people with disabilities. Living with her own mental illness, she has experienced making art in non traditional settings. She learned to connect emotion and image in hospital-based occupational therapy programs, and continued her journey by painting full time in adult day programs. Having spent time in inpatient mental health units so frequently, she is a strong sense of community and belonging with individuals frequently hospitalized, or so-called revolving door patients, and the unique obstacles they face in receiving care. Quiet in person, her voice speaks loudly through her abstract and figurative art. Townsend brings attention to cracks and support services, lack of safe assisted living settings for women and queer identified folks, and well intentioned policy that may have disastrous effects. She advocates for people most vulnerable to abuse that need 24/7 supports and cannot find settings without sacrificing privacy or choice of whom they reside with. Townsend is a recipient of fiscal year 2024 creative individuals grant funded by the Minnesota State Arts Board and the National Endowment for the Arts. She's also the grantee of Arts Midwest 2024 Midwest Award for Artists with Disabilities. I am excited to have Virginia on the podcast with me today. Hi, Virginia. How are you doing today?

Virginia Townsend:

I'm doing great. How are you?

Elle Billing:

Not too bad. It's great to have you on the podcast. I'm excited to have you here today.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, I'm excited too. Thank you for inviting me.

Elle Billing:

Of course, I'm excited to have you here for our listeners. This is my second interview with a winner of the Midwest Award for Artists with Disabilities for this season of Hoorf, and I'm really excited to have another one of my fellow artist cohort with me on the podcast today. It's been really fun to reach out and chat with artists and our little elite group of nine and get to know their art and get to know them. And I'm really happy to have Virginia on the podcast today.

Virginia Townsend:

Thank you.

Elle Billing:

You're in Minnesota, yes?

Virginia Townsend:

I am

Elle Billing:

Yep. And I'm in North Dakota, so we're like, little neighbors, ah, yeah, I want to go to North Dakota. I like that idea of just vast land, just like the idea of emptiness. yes, yeah. And I'm on the eastern part of the state, so like, you wouldn't be too far, like, once you cross the border, like, you would be really close. You could come say hi, um, actually, we drive, I drive through your city on my way to visit my sister. So,

Virginia Townsend:

oh, wow,

Elle Billing:

you're actually, like, we're, I mean, it's like a several hour drive, but like, yeah, you're still probably the closest one to me. Of all,

Virginia Townsend:

we'll have some planning to do, I guess.

Elle Billing:

So we'll have to go to Oakdale and get Duck Donuts.

Virginia Townsend:

They-- Oh my gosh. First of all, I don't know what you're talking about, but second of all, I really want to go.

Elle Billing:

Okay, so my sister used to work in Oakdale, and there's, it's like a small donut shop. There's like, three of them in the cities, and they're like, really, really good donuts. I don't know why they're called Duck Donuts. It's the name of the place, but they're like, when I was staying with them one time, he came home from work with like, a dozendonuts, and she had made sure that he got enough that were like, not that were allergy friendly for me, because there's so many flavors of things that I can't eat. And I was like, Oh, my God, it was like a lemonade flavored donut, yeah, yeah,

Virginia Townsend:

that sounds really nice.

Elle Billing:

And there were strawberry lemonade ones too, but I am allergic to strawberries, so, like, I had it was just like a lemon, like, they melted in my mouth. And it was like, this is a really good donut. Like, I should come visit more often. I mean, like, Yes, I love my sister and her family. But also, these are really good donuts.

Virginia Townsend:

Hard to find a good donut, yeah.

Unknown:

So,

Elle Billing:

So, yeah, I'll go visit my sister. I'll swing through and see you. I'll bring you donuts.

Virginia Townsend:

Thank you. Yeah,

Elle Billing:

we'll have an art date.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, yes.

Elle Billing:

And then then you'll have to come up here and visit just the vast emptiness. Take pictures of it. Yeah, there's really good donuts in Fargo, though, too. So like, I can take you for donuts there. I can take you to see the wood chipper from the movie Fargo.

Virginia Townsend:

Oh!

Elle Billing:

it's in our visitor center, and then the vast emptiness of the rest of

Virginia Townsend:

yeah, yes,

Elle Billing:

just miles of corn,

Virginia Townsend:

the landscape with the beautiful, rich colors,

Elle Billing:

yeah, it's--

Virginia Townsend:

or gray tone colors. I don't really know, never been there.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, it's right now it's brown because we're harvesting corn, and the corn, you know, it turns brown before you harvest it.

Virginia Townsend:

It's interesting.

Elle Billing:

Like, it's green all summer, and then it like, has to dry, and so now it's just really brown.

Virginia Townsend:

Yep, I like it,

Elle Billing:

and the leaves are turning. It's nice. Fall is my favorite. Summer makes me fairly miserable. I can't regulate my temperature, and I just am cranky all summer long.

Virginia Townsend:

Fall is nice, yeah, it is especially now.

Elle Billing:

So my first question that I ask all of my guests is, how have you received care this week?

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, I love that question, and I'm really fortunate because I receive a lot of services. I'm fortunate to be in Minnesota because they are they really take care of people in Minnesota. I grew up in Texas, and Texas was different,

Elle Billing:

Quite different.

Virginia Townsend:

It is. It's, um, it's tough to I think-- I,growing up, I remember seeing a doctor one time till I moved to Minnesota at 17. So, yeah, it's it's a little tough. But um, so this week, I have seen my therapist, who I see twice a week, and during the daytime, during the weekdays, I go to a adult day center called MSS Midwest Special Services, and they have a lot of locations, but I go to the Eagan one, and it's a place where people with disabilities of all kinds and sorts and different functioning needs and support needs can go and receive staffing during the day. After that programming, I go home, and I have my own apartment in a building that's called an ICS building, and I receive services and staffing there too, not as intensely as at my day program, but I usually have a couple hours with staff a day, and it's called ICS, which is integrated community supports. And I try to spend as little time as I can alone, like I don't-- I have trouble being alone, but at certain times, like on the weekends, especially, you know, it's difficult for me to have staffing at home. It's always really confused me, like you can have such intensive services during the five day weekdays and then nothing on the weekend. And I've never really understood how that makes sense.

Elle Billing:

Something I noticed when I was in education too, is like because I worked at a residential school, is we had structure and services for the kids the whole time they were there. And then they on the day they would go home, kids would start having meltdowns because they the transition was so hard, and they knew they were going to go back to like, wherever they went on the weekends. And so the last day of the school week, the last half of the last day of the school week, and then the first half of the first day of the week, kids were just all over the place because of that, transition from no structure to structure every single week was really difficult for them, because what they needed was consistency, and it's really hard to provide that when there isn't services on the weekend. And it's not different when we get older either,

Virginia Townsend:

no, it's not

Elle Billing:

because like, structure is helpful.

Virginia Townsend:

It absolutely is. It really can help some people, like, hold it together and and that's interesting. You said that about Mondays and Fridays because I, on purpose, have one of my therapy days be a Friday so that I can plan for the weekend and and it could be as small as, like, what to look up on my computer. But if I don't plan for the weekend and feel okay about it, Friday is just an awful day.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, the other time that was the worst was like coming back from a vacation, like spring break, Christmas break, Thanksgiving break. Like, that first Monday was always the kids were just excited. It was like, they were all happy to see each other, and they would always want to talk about what they did. But the Tuesday was like, Oh, we got through Monday. This was so easy. The next day was a disaster. Like, that's when the shit would hit the fan, and everybody would have, like, a bunch of trouble, like behaviors and whatever, and okay, behaviors using quote, fingers, all behavior is communication. They're trying to communicate something to us. They are dysregulated. I wonder why that is. It was just really difficult, and always worse after a prolonged break. And so doing what we can to provide ease of transition to and from school was always an interesting challenge.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

like, how do we, how do we help them feel, like, safe and secure going back and forth. And I wonder if you can, you know, with that, like, kind of Stark break, yeah, and it varied from kid to kid too, because, yeah, you know, it depended on how well they were embedded in their family and their community too. So I've So I've had a little bit of time to look at some of your art. It's really quite vibrant. I really like it, and I'm curious about, like, you know your art practice and how your disability informs your art, and how, how does your art influence the way that you see your disability? Like, how do those two things play together?

Virginia Townsend:

It's a really interesting question that I hadn't really thought much about in the past, but my disability informs of my art in like these two like kind of opposite ways. So the first way is that I will paint on my painting until I am absolutely sure it's done. And I can't put my name on the back if I'm not certain. And part of being certain is my own opinion. But I also ask a bunch of people around me, because I go to that day program, so I ask people's opinions of it before I fully make up my mind. And it's this mix of perfectionism and self doubting, because I want my work to be outstanding, like it's that perfectionism that creeps in and just the the sense that I can't judge myself, that my judgment is not trustworthy. And so it's it's an interesting mix. The other way that my disability can inform my art is that as fast as I can paint, and I do really like paint fast I can a painting in the morning, could look completely different at the end of the day. And as fast as I can do that, I can also slow down if I'm triggered by something, usually music that I heard growing up. So if I have this, this very annoying problem where, if I like, I could be doing just fine. I could be enjoying myself, talking with people, having a good time, and if I hear any song that I heard growing up, and it doesn't matter the genre, it doesn't matter like, you know, it could be a sample. It could be someone singing it, um, I will most likely have a meltdown. And what that like looks like is I could do the like, you know, that like, yell crying, where you're, like, trying to explain, you're so upset, and you're crying, and you're talking to somebody, and you're so you're so upset that, like, you can't control your voice volume,

Elle Billing:

yeah, yep, yeah.

Virginia Townsend:

So that's like, that yell, crying, um, just meltdowns. And usually, after that, as long as I speak to somebody, it's got, it's better in like, a few minutes, but then I'm usually so worn out that I need to sleep, and I usually can't paint after that until the next day. So that's how my disability affects my art and informs it, but my art influences, really how I view myself in this way that I just find really beautiful. Because in the past, like when I explained to doctors or therapists, because, you know, I've seen every doctor, I've seen every therapist, I'm in the rehab, like three to five times I can't remember, and every time I would talk to a professional, they I always heard this response of, oh, you have so much potential. You'll eventually be independent. You'll be successful, like, you know, just work hard at it. And through my art career, which started in a day services program, it didn't start on my own, and through doing that, I've learned that like half of that statement was right, and I did. And I do have a lot of potential. I have this crazy, or I shouldn't say crazy, but I have this strong ambition that does not quit. I will apply for everything, be rejected for everything, and apply the next year. And I have this drive to learn everything I can about what interests me so that I can do it to the best of my ability. Because I'm-- I don't like competition, but I am in competition with myself, and I always want to win with myself.

Elle Billing:

Yeah.

Virginia Townsend:

So my art has really taught me that if I if I have, like, total independence, which is like in the layperson definition, like no professional supports, I wouldn't survive life. You know, I need my supports. I need my day supports, and I can need that and be successful with my art.

Elle Billing:

I think you hit on something really important

there. One:

independence is overrated

Virginia Townsend:

Absolutely

Elle Billing:

and it can and it can be dangerous, like it is, it's dangerous for some, it's harmful for some people. And I was on the the other side of that equation as a teacher, where we are, you know, I started in the elementary program and then moved up to secondary, where we write, help students write their Post Secondary Transition Plans, and there's a lot of emphasis on independence, and we start writing transition plans when they're 14. So we want them to start thinking about their post secondary transition and their career, and how they're going to spend their post high school life when they're 14 years old. I don't know about you, but when I was going through puberty, what I was thinking about in 10 years was very fantastical, like it wasn't rooted in reality. And I certainly, even if I had had some supports to like, build toward that, and I did, based on the family that I grew up in, in the school that I had, but, like, it wasn't really realistic, and it's, I think that's asking a lot of kids and teenagers. And I think for some of us, day programs exist for a reason. You know, people can be embedded in the community and still need a lot of support. And I think the focus on independent, independent, independent is missing the mark for a lot of a lot, a lot of people, and it doesn't mean that we can't do cool things and accomplish things and be successful.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, I I agree with that, and I also think that, and I could be wrong about this, but this is kind of my experience, is that the more you move away from services, especially residential services, the more kind of incentives you have in the framework. It's just this idea of living in your own space is like the ideal. And I think maybe the root of that is some fantastical idea that disabled people can recover and not be disabled, which is a really not great way to think if they can't. And then I also think it's rooted in finances. You know, when I lived in an assisted living that home was getting $247,000 a year to assist me, and I moved out into an ICS facility, and they, I always read that the papers I get from the county with what everybody's being paid, because I can get mad about it, and the ICS I live in is getting$117,000 a year. So it's like every level you step down, it's less less money that Medicaid is paying for. And I understand the idea of cutting out waste. But whenever anybody cuts out waste, they're cutting the wrong things. They're cutting they're cutting things they know nothing about.

Unknown:

right?

Elle Billing:

Right. They see line items, and we see people absolutely and just and I can't stress this enough, yeah, some people with disabilities can improve. Great. Some people with disabilities make it to a point where they're they don't consider themselves, or doctors wouldn't consider them disabled. Great. Some people stay disabled. Some people get worse. I just would wish that people would understand that kind of spectrum, because it's like you said, it's dangerous to give somebody less support than they need. Results in a life turned upside down. You started painting in in a day program. That's how you started. So how does your art, like, communicate about like your inner world, or what it is that you're experiencing, is that? Is that why you started painting?

Virginia Townsend:

When I realized that I needed somewhere to go every day so that I could both socialize and feel like I had a purpose in this world. Because when you're somebody who struggles to work, the narrative around what you can do to have purpose is not really taught. You know, it's, it's, it's kind of uncharted territory, because if you can't work, it's like, this idea of like, well, what can you do? You know,

Elle Billing:

it's that capitalist--

Virginia Townsend:

absolutely

Unknown:

ableism.

Elle Billing:

ableism-- It's all that big, messy knot--

Virginia Townsend:

yep

Elle Billing:

that goes along right with that independent living thing. They're all connected.

Virginia Townsend:

They really are. And so I wanted to go to a day program, and I'd never been to one before, but I wanted to go to one where I could do art. Because in the past, like, kind of off and on, I would dabble in painting, and I do it in that way where, like, you're sitting on the floor and you have, like, your limited paints around you, and it's very informal, but it was an interest of mine. And so with my paintings, I kind of went through stages. There were landscapes, there were figure drawings, and I kind of landed on abstract art. And if you look at my current body of work, some of my paintings look similar to each other, like almost like reiterations of themselves, and then some look completely different. And this is because whenever there's a big change in my life or a trauma, or even something as small as like my seat location changing, I can get really disoriented, so much that it feels like I'm like, starting over and I can't remember how to paint. Like, I won't be able to like. I'll sit down with a paint on wood panels, and I'll sit down with a wood panel. I'll look at my brushes, and I'm like, wait, what like? How do I do this again? And so I won't remember how to start. I won't remember, like, what to do after I start, or like how to know if I finish the painting, I'll notice that, like, it's harder to talk to the people I'm around, even if I know them. And I get annoyed just like trying to hold a conversation that's more than pleasantries, because I just feel so different. And I think this is why there are shifts in my entire body of work. It is a thing that happens, and I think that people may be able to see it when they look at my work, but I have that, I still have that, like veil of privacy about why it happens, you know, like you couldn't tell from looking at my work why it happens, but you can see that it happens.

Elle Billing:

Oh, that's really interesting. So you mentioned that that the shifts happen if you've experienced a trauma, or if something changes in your environment, what is? What is something that you wish that folks who aren't disabled or who don't have mental illness knew or understood about PTSD and trauma disorders.

Virginia Townsend:

Okay, get ready, because I have a list.

Elle Billing:

Awesome. Yeah, that's why we have Hoorf.

Virginia Townsend:

Oh my gosh, so Okay. The first thing is, I wish so much that people would understand how trauma, whether it's like a short term or long term traumas, how they show up in people's behaviors and attitudes and abilities to like regulate themselves, and I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little bitter that horrific trauma experiences seem to be a common plot point in movies currently,

Elle Billing:

oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. It's awful, right? Absolutely awful.

Virginia Townsend:

And yet, when people are faced with other people who in real life have experienced even like similar things, you know just awful, and they struggle with those lasting effects, the triggers that they have are treated as if they're dislikes or preferences. In reducing those triggers is like, it's just too much effort. The person is viewed as being too much, and even if it makes the space inaccessible for somebody, it's just the idea is like, Oh, you dislike this? Well, we can't, we can't control everything, and even if it's like one specific thing. And I found that in my experience, you know, I will talk about older music, what I realize people are hearing is I don't like music, which is absolutely not it at all. And so like people with lasting effects from trauma, they can appear needy or demanding of reassurance, but this, it's like you said, behavior is communication, and it's often because they had their needs neglected by supports who, instead of being reliable, we're inconsistent. An example of that for me is that I can call often or email often, so like, if I call a company, or if I'm calling the county, you know, I can call them every few hours, and I don't leave messages, because that would be too much. But it's not that I'm angry or frustrated, it's that I'm sitting with my question, which is unanswerable unless I talk to the person I need to talk to, and and sitting with that not knowing and knowing that somebody has the answer, feels so intolerable. And you know, if I could figure it out myself, I definitely would. I'm such a fan of searching for stuff, but in situations where I'm waiting for a response, I'll frequently call, because my mindset is, well, what if they answer this time? What if they're sitting at their desk right now and they would answer the phone if I call, and then with that thought, I have to call, yeah, because I have to take that chance. Because if I, if I, you know, quote, unquote, win. If I'm right, if they do answer, then I can stop being anxious. And my caddy waiver manager is so amazing. She gets this about me, and she tells me that if I'm anxious, I can call her as many times as I need, even on the weekend, could be 10 times in a day, doesn't she understands? Because if she's busy or on a home visit, her phone is on silent, or it's in her car, and she gets she gets it. It's a self regulating thing, you know, and others usually do not get that. And then I think the last thing I'll say, and I could talk about this for the end of time, but the last thing I'll say on that question is, you know, frequently, like people with trauma who didn't learn self regulation as kids, and this could be people who didn't learn it growing up, and then had the trauma later In life. You know, like you see that with military or you see, you know, just trauma can happen to so many people, and if they don't have the self regulation skills, they usually, in my experience, for me and seeing others, they depend on outward behaviors to regulate so it can come off as like demanding, it can come off as emotional as having meltdowns, which are actually can be a form of self regulation, but like, in my experience, coming off as demanding, it's and it's really the exact opposite, like I know when people are starting to think I'm annoying and I feel shame about it, like when I'm on that seventh call, like I feel like a terrible person, but, I mean, I don't have-- it feels like I don't have another option, like, if I'm conscious in the moment, I don't know any other way to relieve the pressure and calm my anxiety.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, my partner was-- just recently posted something on social media about all the micro shame that goes with ADHD. And it's like, we also don't want to be doing what we are doing. We are fully aware of how we are inconveniencing and annoying other people. Like, we don't want our brain to work or not work the way that it does. We're doing the best we can, trust me,

Virginia Townsend:

yeah. Yeah.

Elle Billing:

Like, there's tons of yeah, there's lots. And I think that's one of the things, at least for I think what at least the neuro divergences that I have experience with both myself and with the people in my close circle is just like the shame that goes along with doing what we know we need to regulate, or to get information, or to get through the day knowing that, like, Oh, I know this is like driving people crazy, but I'm doing the best I can. And if you just help me with this one thing, trust me, it'll be better after this

Virginia Townsend:

absolutely like, I, you know, I my first day program was different than this. Um, and I would have this thing where, like, if a staff person would come in, and if anything different, you know, if they seemed different in any way, if they were quiet, or if they if their face didn't look the same, I felt compelled to email them and with just one question. It was, is everything okay? And I wasn't asking about, like, I don't need to know what's going on with them. I don't need to, you know, know, any personal details. Like, really, all I'm looking for is a, yes, that's it. And I think if you don't understand where someone's coming from, that might, that might be annoying. But at the same time, I feel like it's not asking for much,

Elle Billing:

yeah, like assessing the temperature of the room Absolutely,

Virginia Townsend:

Absolutely,

Elle Billing:

Is everyone good? No, yeah.

Virginia Townsend:

Is anything bad happening?

Elle Billing:

Do I need to fix something?

Virginia Townsend:

Oh, my gosh, that's a t-- Whenever anybody seems upset. My brain is like, Okay, your turn! fix it.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, yeah,

Virginia Townsend:

you're in charge. You're in charge everybody. You have to regulate everybody's emotions.

Elle Billing:

Oh, I don't know what that's like at all. Oh, wait, yeah, yes, I do.

Virginia Townsend:

Can we go? I think we went over the How does PTSD impact? And then go to the sleep question,

Elle Billing:

yeah, sure

Virginia Townsend:

I appreciate that. Sorry.

Elle Billing:

You want to talk about how PTSD impacts your day to day life?

Virginia Townsend:

yeah. I think people aren't used to maybe seeing or recognizing when PTSD is a daily struggle for people, and especially when it's disabling.

Elle Billing:

You had said something earlier about how like trauma is like glamorized, almost, because there's so many TV shows and movies that use major trauma as a plot point. And I think that might be part of it, because we have a very limited view of what PTSD looks like,

Virginia Townsend:

Absolutely,

Elle Billing:

and partly because we think of PTSD as something that happens to soldiers or people who have a single traumatic like one single traumatic event. And I think there's a lot that can be done to sort of educate about complex, long term trauma, but how that manifests in people's daily lives is still something people don't understand. Sorry, go ahead

Virginia Townsend:

yeah, I absolutely, I do blame media, because there's no you know, you'll, you'll see a dramatized movie talking about somebody who has this just enormous trauma happened to them, and it, maybe it's ongoing, maybe it's not, and then the end of the movie is the person being rescued, or the end of the it never goes past that and that. That bothers me, because, you know, the effects of trauma, I think the layperson, or someone who doesn't have experience with that could name maybe, like, two, yeah, like flashbacks, anxiety, insomnia, and I also think that it's a failing of the medical industry, society, whatever you want to call it, because there's for trauma. As far as I know, it's the diagnosis is PTSD. Like you mentioned, complex PTSD. And I think that's a very valuable framework. And if you look up Complex PTSD, you can see what kind of long term effects can live with the person. And Complex PTSD isn't technically a diagnosis, yeah. And I think it's harmful to put everybody who has PTSD because, like, one trauma, PTSD tends to go away within six months. Complex PTSD can affect who you are as a human and so, like, okay for me, with my symptoms, with my difficulties, I have a lot of triggers, and I have a lot of fears. If I hear music that I hear growing up, I have a meltdown. If I see TV that I saw growing up, I have a meltdown. If I hear jingles from commercials when I was growing up, meltdown. I also have trouble even with current media, like current movies, current shows, when they flash back to like a year before the year 2000, I can't deal. I will try, because I want to watch the show, and then I just start to feel myself get angrier and angrier, and it's almost disconnected from what I'm watching. But I've learned to tell that it is very connected. I can't watch black and white TV shows or movies, even if they're current, because the visual. if I'm alone for more than an hour or two, I start to feel trapped where I am and like, not in the existential way of feeling trapped, but in a way where it feels like I'm not allowed to leave and like it's against the rules, quote, unquote. And during these times, you know, I have a dog who is the most amazing thing in my life. And during those times, which often happen on the weekend, sometimes I feel it's hard not to feel shame, especially when it comes to pets, but I'll usually have to use a diaper with him, because it feels like being outside isn't an option, but having a pet and taking care of a pet and loving a pet and a pet loving you, it helps me feel like when I do feel like I'm confined within the walls I'm in, it feels better knowing that my dog is with me, like, Oh, he's he's trapped here too. We can be trapped here together and, you know, but what, what does? And this is why I need services, right, staff at home so, and he's lived with me and assisted living before. But because what breaks it is like, it's going outside. Because once, if I'm able to go outside, my brain just shifts. It's just when I'm alone to motiva--, not, It's not motivation. It when I'm alone to, like, understand that I'm allowed to leave through the door. It just, it's, it doesn't happen. So I just have staff intervene if I'm able to. I also like, yelp and flinch at many unexpected sounds. The most annoying to me is when a door closes, I will be like, Oh, I'm embarrassed that I'm still wildly hyper alert. Bubble wrap being popped, that kind of stuff. Also being in grocery stores is hard any kind of store if they're playing old music. Same thing for medical lobbies. You'd be surprised being in a medical cab if the driver is playing music before the year, 2000 in my purse, I always have two sets of headphones on me. One is like the emergency headphones, which are noise canceling. I use them in emergency situations where the music is loud, because I dislike having noise canceling on it makes me feel like I can't monitor my surroundings. So I also have a pair of headphones that are those, like bone conduction ones, and they allow me to hear my surroundings, but they're able to drown out, like softer old music, like if it was coming from, you know, a grocery store or the lobby of my dentist, that kind of thing.

Elle Billing:

That's a lot.

Virginia Townsend:

It's annoying, but I'm, I'm trying to learn to, like, not even think of it as annoying. It's, it's not annoying, it's, it's how my brain can hold itself together. My brain is holding itself together with a whole lot of tape.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, it's working really hard.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, it's working really hard. And I think feeling annoyed about it is my way of appeasing the way society can view it. I think it's like an internalization of, like, oh yeah, this is so annoying that I have this trigger. Like, actually, it's, it's not, it's just painful.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, wow, I don't have anything after that.

Virginia Townsend:

That's just fine,

Elle Billing:

yeah

Virginia Townsend:

Thank you for listening. Yeah, thank you for sharing all that. Did you want to take a few minutes to talk about your how sleep messes with your creativity? Absolutely

Elle Billing:

because I think that's really, I think that's really relatable to a lot of us. Sleep is something a lot of us are chasing, like quality sleep.

Virginia Townsend:

Yeah, I definitely have experience with that. So I've been diagnosed with both narcolepsy and idiopathic hypersomnia. I was diagnosed with narcolepsy back when idiopathic hypersomnia didn't have any FDA treatment. So doctors would diagnose narcolepsy so that you have insurance to pay for treatment.

Elle Billing:

Yep,

Virginia Townsend:

and I have been through the ringer with trying to find meds that work, and I eventually saw a sleep medicine doctor who he informed me that sometimes when people have a lot of trauma, they can have these episodes of sleep attacks that really mirror narcolepsy. And in his experience, when people have large amounts of trauma, and if they don't respond well to the medication, like stimulants, like they may work for a week and then stop, and then you're back trying to switch. And granted, you can become tolerant of stimulants, but in his experience, that can indicate dissociation and this idea that you are having these sleep attacks when it's really your brain, like shutting down real quick and having that experience of dissociation, because, like you said, like my brain works harder than a brain can work without a break like that. So yeah, my sleep schedule is also based on my triggers, so it's been pretty unique for a few years now. I do take this like heavy sleep med that's impossible to stay awake through, and I love it. And on a good day, I'll take it at 4pm and on a bad day, I'll take it at three because I just want the day to be over with. And then ideally, ideally, I would wake up at 4pm but, or, sorry, 4am ideally, I would wake up at 4am but often it's between two and four, AM, and I developed a sleep schedule because I have this trauma response where I feel a sense of dread and doom at a certain time of day, usually between like three and 7pm because for me, those that would be the time when schools ended, You're at home, but you're not unconscious, asleep yet. So when I was in college, to deal with those feelings of like, yes, the most horrendous like, feel like you're just the world is gonna collapse on you, I would do these little things like, take the bus to Walgreens and buy shampoo during that time, and then the next day, I would take the bus to Walgreens and buy conditioner, you know, like I would do anything I could to be out, because as long as I'm out or asleep, it's okay, but if I'm at home and awake during those times, is when it just feels intolerable. So the result of my sleep schedule is that I've actually only been to one art opening ever, because a lot of events will take place in in the evening or in the evenings.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, yeah.

Virginia Townsend:

And last year, I was awarded Best in Show for one of my paintings at Artability, and they told me, and for the closing ceremonies, they were like giving out awards, and they let me know, and I couldn't go. It was I. There's no way I would have been able to stay up that late. So I just imagined it would be like. this year, I am feeling up to challenging myself, and I think that feeling up to challenging yourself is really important, yes, because they feel like people shouldn't challenge themselves because they feel they have to. I think you can hurt yourself that way. This year, I want to challenge myself, and I feel like I can succeed by attending there's a donor event on the 24th October, 24, and it's for Artability. And I'll be giving a speech, which I've written. So, you know, pressures off a little bit, so I've been working myself up to staying up later. And staying up that late is still something I would probably only do, like, once every six months, yeah. But you know, even if I do that, that's way better than the last seven, eight years.

Unknown:

That's

Virginia Townsend:

That's like, a really cool, like, measurable goal to work yourself up towards, and for a really good reason, too. Thank you.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, thanks for sharing all that. Thanks for being here. No, thank you. We're out of time.

Virginia Townsend:

Oh, I'm so sorry.

Elle Billing:

No, it's great. We had a wonderful conversation. We didn't get to talk about, like, the thing that we talked about on the phone.

Virginia Townsend:

Oh, oh, I know, I know you had sent me that list of questions, and the last question on that list, I thought was really beautiful.

Elle Billing:

Oh, that's right. Let's do that one, and then we'll go. So what is one? What is one true thing you have learned from your creative practice?

Virginia Townsend:

I love this question, and my answer is that the one true thing I've learned from my creative practice is that I can be skilled at something and successful at something while receiving direct support, you know, like I can manage my career and have 24/7 staffing too. And this is true for me, because every person, every person with a disability, is unique. But I don't have to give up one for the other. I don't have to not be successful to have 24/7 staffing. I don't have to not live in a residential setting with services to be successful, you know, and they can go together just fine. They don't conflict.

Elle Billing:

I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This was so nice. Yeah, where can people go to find you on socials or the internet or wherever?

Virginia Townsend:

Well, luckily. Actually, my SEO is working now. And yeah, so if you type my name into Google, the first result will be my website. So Virginia Townsend, Virginia has three I's in it, surprisingly. So V, I R, G, I, N, I, A, and then my last name, T, O, W, N, S, E, N, D, dot com

Elle Billing:

perfect.

Virginia Townsend:

And, yeah, that really shows. I have my figure drawings and my abstract art there, as well as the statement a bio and just kind of what I'm all about.

Elle Billing:

Awesome. I will put that in the show notes so everyone can find you. Thank you so much for being here.

Virginia Townsend:

Oh, thank you for having me. It means a lot. I really care about this stuff.

Elle Billing:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hoorf. To get the complete show notes and all the links mentioned on today's episode, or to get a full transcript of the episode, visit hoorfpodcast dot com. Join the Blessed Herd of St Winkus. By signing up for our newsletter. You can get Hoorf episodes delivered directly to your inbox. What's more, you get invitations to our monthly Coffee & Biscuits Chat, where you get to hang out with Ricki and Elle, talk about the show and connect on the topics that mean the most to you. You can sign up for that at hoorfpodcast dot com. If you become a patron for only $3 a month, you can support the creation of this podcast, help pay my editor, and join a community of caregivers out here, just doing our best. Thank you again for joining me, Elle Billing, the chronically ill queer femme who is very tired, on this episode of Hoorf. Until next time, be excellent to each other. Hoorf is hosted by Elle Billing@elleandwink audio editing by Ricki Cummings @rickiep00h music composed by Ricki Cummings. Hoorf is a production of Elle & Wink Art Studio LLC, all rights reserved. Hoorf can be found on all social media platforms. At Hoorf podcast, at H, O, O, R, F podcast

Virginia Townsend:

hard to find a good donut.

Contributor

Ricki Cummings

Producer