Hoorf! Radical Care in a Late-Capitalist Heckscape

"an open relationship with time;" crip time and crip materiality, with disabled clay artist Car Riegger

• Elle Billing • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Content note: this episode contains discussion of human specimens displayed for public viewing

On this episode, Elle welcomes Car Riegger, a chronically ill and disabled artist from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Riegger is pursuing their MFA, focusing on sculpture in clay and glass to express their experiences with disability. They discuss crip materiality and the display of disabled bodies after a recent research visit to the Mutter Museum. Riegger emphasizes the importance of community and connection within the disabled community, which sustains them through their artistic practice. The conversation also touches on the ongoing impact of COVID-19 on their lives and careers.

Links to Car’s work, as well as all other resource links, are **in the full show notes at hoorfpodcast.com

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Elle Billing:

Hi. My name is Elle billing. I am a chronically ill queer femme, and I'm tired. I'm here this episode and every episode to dig at the roots of our collective fatigue, explore ways to direct our care in compassionate and sustainable ways, and to harness creative expression to heal ourselves and to heal our world. Welcome to Hoorf: radical care in the late capitalist heckscape,

Ricki Cummings:

hi, everyone. Ricki on the intro again this week. Welcome to Season Four. Our guest this week is Carly"Car" Riegger. Car is a chronically ill and disabled artist from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Since finding clay, they have been able to express their illness in ways that words could not. Their artwork naturally merged with their experiences with disability. One of Riegger's biggest projects included a panel and exhibition called hashtag crip clay, which was featured at NCECA in Cincinnati, Ohio, in 2023. This exhibition included all artists with disabilities, which was the first of its kind at the conference. Riegger is also the recipient of the 2024 Midwest Artists with Disabilities award. They have an MA in disability studies from the City University of New York, and currently they are pursuing an MFA in studio art from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Both Riegger's artwork and career goals involve disability inclusion and rights. They are working to expand how the arts communities work with artists with disabilities, and how disability communities utilize art to express complex disabled ideas. And now here's Elle and Car.

Elle Billing:

Hi, Car, welcome to Hoorf.

Car Riegger:

Hello.

Elle Billing:

It's great to have you here. I'm really excited.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, we've been emailing it for almost a year, but I've been following you on social media for, like, so much longer than that. So yeah, this is really exciting for me. Oh, and here comes my mother. Hold on. Are you giving me your pie crust? Thank you. I will eat that when I'm done. It'll be a nice little sweet treat. And that is real life when you are a caregiver for a parent. That-- Yep, my dad bought this huge cherry pie at Costco last weekend, and so we've all been we've been working our way through the pie, and my mom remembered that I love the crust at the end, and so she ate the last piece of pie for breakfast.

Car Riegger:

That's perfect.

Elle Billing:

She forgets if the door is closed, don't come in. And she's like, I brought you pie crust. I'm like, okay, thank you.

Car Riegger:

That's so sweet.

Elle Billing:

She's actually having a really good day today. She's very upbeat, and she's moving really well, so just interrupting,

Car Riegger:

and that's okay, yeah, my grandpa had Alzheimer's, so I saw a lot of that,

Elle Billing:

yep, yep, but it's a good day. So, like, I'm not gonna complain, like she

Car Riegger:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

I woke her up today, and, like, she was really bright eyed and lucid, and most of the time her worst confusion is when you wake her up or right before bed, when she's getting really tired, she Sundowns. So, yeah, I'll take pie. That's great. Thank you. So anyway, yes, I've been following you on social media for a long time. So awesome. Yeah, it's and then we both got the, that award so, for the artists with disabilities last summer,

Car Riegger:

oh my gosh, yeah.

Elle Billing:

And then I was like, Oh, cool. I'm like, Car got it and I got it, and we're, like, in the same group of people, this is so exciting.

Car Riegger:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

I'm gonna email them!

Car Riegger:

yeah, yeah, that, my gosh, that doesn't feel like that long ago.

Elle Billing:

I know I was actually looking back through my season three guests, because I reached out to all of the recipients. There was one that didn't have an email address and wasn't able to reach out to, but I reached out to all of the recipients. Like, do you want to be a guest on the podcast? And I was looking back over the season, I'm like, I can't believe it was like, just season three, the beginning of season three that I interviewed Charlie, and Virginia, and then later on, I did some other

Car Riegger:

Me, too. Me too. yeah, ones and, like, that was less than a year ago. It's been a

Elle Billing:

I often say I have an open relationship with time. lot. It was a long year, but, like, also, it felt like it went fast. I don't know, like, time is weird. I have a weird relationship with time, We see other people

Car Riegger:

Well, especially like in grad school, like time is both really fast and really slow, and then I'm also trying to work on crip time at the same time as that, and it's just like a whole mess.

Elle Billing:

Woof. Yeah, yeah. Well, I didn't finish grad school, so again, open relationship with time.

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

We decided to see other people.

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

speaking of grad school, you just finished another semester on crip time. You're just you're tired, you're done summer brain.

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

how have you received care this week?

Car Riegger:

This week, I've just been allowing myself to completely rest. And since school has gotten done, like, I still have that, like, need to be doing something, even though I'm like, I need to, like, shut it down and like, rest. So I've been just allowing myself, like, you know, in the month of May to just totally like rest as I can. So yeah, and I got COVID for the first time ever. So like, five years I made it, and so I've also just been like taking care of myself for that, and it mostly just made me really tired this time. So I'm like, I don't know, I already have POTS, so I was, like, really nervous to get it. So I'm still hoping that things are okay.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, so you're part of that overlapping, like the overlapping Venn diagram, that is a circle, that's queer, non binary, POTS, neurodivergent.

Car Riegger:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

EDS. Like, it's like, all my friends who have EDS are also like, you check one box, you may as well just, like, E-- all of the above.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, and I'm not, I've been unmasking a lot as I'm, like, learning more about myself, and I'm not diagnosed, nor will it be an easy process to be diagnosed with anything.

Elle Billing:

Is it ever?

Car Riegger:

Yeah, I'm like, it's not easy, and I'm not motivated also either like to I'm I'd much rather, like, take care of, like, the immediate needs than like that. I probably wouldn't need medication for necessarily, anyway, so I'm kind of like, I don't want to be harassed by a doctor just for that.

Elle Billing:

I go back and forth. Like, this is, I don't know if you're into astrology. Do you check that box too?

Car Riegger:

Yeah. I mean, I'm already within that, so I look at it,

Elle Billing:

yeah. It's like, Are you a little witchy too? Because, like, I feel like, like, it's a trope for a reason, especially, like, within the like, queer non binary art people, I already get, like, hear so much of that anyway. So I'm just like, my rising sign is Gemini. So I'm either like, I gotta have a diagnosis. I need it all official. I need it on the paperwork so I can say, See, I told you something was wrong. Or I'm like, eff it, it's the medical industrial complex. I don't need these people to validate my existence, right? I'm either one or the other, but, like, I am basically treating my immune issues, which I think are probably MCAS, right?

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

the way that, like, my friends who have diagnosed MCAS would treat it, like, all of those things that, like, I would be doing anyway, if we had specialists in North Dakota, like, and there's no EDS specialists here either. So, like, I have the hypermobility diagnosis, and then my rheumatologist was, like, that's as much, as much as I can, that's as far as I can go. Like, I don't do EDS, and no one else here does either. I was like, what?

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

my sister in law was able to get an EDS diagnosis, but she lives across the border, and it's like, literally, the river makes the difference between us getting diagnosis and treatment.

Car Riegger:

Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I haven't actually seen an EDS specialist, but I was able to get the diagnosis of hypermobility EDS, but that was, like, a really long time ago too, but then they also, like before that, like I saw someone else who diagnosed me with fibromyalgia, which they can coexist, but I feel like it's because that person didn't know what EDS was. So I have that tag on me as well, but I think that EDS is, like, more accurate. And then I had, I had POTS my like whole life. I just didn't know what it was like. I didn't I stood up, and I just figured that's what happened to everyone.

Elle Billing:

Everybody's vision went black for a little while when they stood up.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, and I haven't done as much like research into MCAS, but I I have reactions to so many things that it's like for sure there, I just haven't gotten that diagnosis, and I have-- that's like the most untreated, probably, but I have so many allergic reactions,

Elle Billing:

and it's probably the hardest to diagnose of the three.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, yeah.

Elle Billing:

Anyway, welcome to The Club. I mean, not welcome. You were already there, but like, hey, we found each other. I dated someone at one point who was like, You-- all your friends have a lot wrong with them. And I was like, Yeah, we find each other. He's like, I've never, I've never experienced that. I'm like, Well, what do you talk to your friends about? Like, do you not know what's going on in your friends' lives? Do their joints not hurt?

Car Riegger:

Yeah, that's also, like, how I've come into, like, as I've been coming into my queerness and being non binary, I learned, like, what type of queer people that I like to be around, which are the neurodivergent ones?

Elle Billing:

Disaster queers, is what my partner and I called our group, yeah.

Car Riegger:

And so then I was, you know, thinking about me being neurodivergent, and that I've basically been peer reviewed. And so I now, like, think about, like, the peer review process a lot more than I think about diagnosis, because it's the more accurate

Elle Billing:

Peer reviewed autism. Yeah.

Car Riegger:

Yeah! So that's, that's what that is.

Elle Billing:

oh gosh, this is, this is great, yeah. And even even some like, with EDS, like, I figured out most about it, like, through people who had it online, and how their doctors, like, if they were treated correctly or whatever, how they were treated, and I'm like, oh, so like me thinking I need a wheelchair isn't insane. I'm just not being listened to. Or me, like needing a parking placard isn't crazy. Like, so those things, which, yeah, I view as peer reviewed. Helped me a lot because, yeah, a lot of doctors just like, won't listen. So you are, like, a three dimensional artist. You work in clay.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, I work. I've worked with, like, clay and ceramics, like, the longest, like, I've been working in it since, like, high school, when I, like, couldn't stop and, but then I've been introduced to other things. So I've been using glass a lot more recently, just because I've had access to it. But, yeah, Yeah, so this is a term not coined by me. It's

Elle Billing:

Very cool. So I'm just going to jump in, jump in, like, 14 minutes later-- when you filled out your intake form. coined by a scholar, Jessica A. Cooley, and I highly recommend, And I always ask, What do you want to talk about? And you said criP materiality. And I don't know what that is, so I'm just like, reading it. I guess I read a lot about, like, art and then going to ask you to talk about it. What is crip materiality? So its function has changed by disability theory, so I highly recommend, like, like reading how she talks about it, because she's coming from a point of art history and conservation. But I read that and I was like, Oh my gosh, that's like, what I'm doing. I just couldn't say it like, I didn't know the words. And so this is basically me taking materials and applying like disability studies and crip theory through, like, materials. So a lot of the materials, I push really hard, and I push to the point where they don't hold together, or they're under a lot of stress, and so they break and and so I'm trying to work through ableism, through my pieces, I guess. And they also happen to be bodies too. So I'm like, treating them like a disabled body, like one of the things I'm doing recently is like-- Oh, I have a piece, and I put it under so much stress that it broke. And instead of a lot of people in ceramics are like, Oh, this is broken, I'm throwing it out. I'm like, No, I'm not throwing out a disabled body. And so then I, like, put it through the firing process, and then then that becomes like the piece, even though it's in ceramics, it's like, I guess, not as common to have like a piece that's displayed that's like broken, because that

Car Riegger:

its function is different, which already was, usually in ceramics, it holds like water or like other liquids. like, I guess different because it's like a more of a sculpture, but yeah, so I push a lot, and because I've been using glass too, I'm like, what if I take glass and I just, like, force it together with ceramics? So there's one piece where I just, like, had someone blow glass, like, into a ceramic thing. And so normally, like, those don't work together. Glass and ceramic, like, have different temp, temperatures that they go through kilns, but somehow, like, it survived, and so, like, that was really exciting for how I think about, like, those two materials together, and that's really cool surviving, like a kiln environment is, to me, like, how I survive, like harsh environments as well,

Elle Billing:

the crucible of late stage capitalism,

Car Riegger:

yeah,

Elle Billing:

yeah, that's, that's really cool. I love that.

Car Riegger:

Yeah. I'm, like, thinking about it through, like, an artist perspective. So I'm thinking, yeah, like, what's the longevity of the piece also? And, yeah,

Elle Billing:

I have some reading to do. This is fabulous.

Car Riegger:

It's a fairly new term that the person, like, put out. She did her PhD about it, and so, and she was art history PhD, actually, where I'm studying too. So that's how I found out about it.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, totally

Car Riegger:

and that she graduated. I don't know exactly when, but not super long ago. So it's, like, fairly new. And like, I'm one of the first people to be like, Oh my gosh! and then like, kind of take it further. I mean, there are some other artists working in this way, but there's just a lot to play with, with, like, how materials, like, should be behaving and should be doing certain things that I just feel is so accurate to me that I can have that. And like, the disabled narrative. Like, really show,

Elle Billing:

yeah, I really love it when, when artists like push materials to their limits anyway, and so like the idea of pushing something past its limit, and it's still being a piece of art and used, like, not discarded because it went too far. But like, Oh no, this still, is still usable or beautiful or functional or just differently. I'm going to chew on that for a while. That's great. Thank you for sharing that.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, I'm trying to get it to a point where, like, maybe it's not only breaking, but like, I want to try something where I like, fire it so hot that maybe it melts a little bit, or like, like things like that. So it's not-- because one thing, I'm surrounded by able bodied people in art, like always, and one thing I kind of noticed was just people equating breaking with disability, which really made me mad. So I'm trying to have multiple ways that, like pushing a material shows up so that it's not only that I don't think that it's even a bad thing to equate it's just how they're equating it that becomes, like problematic, because it's insisting that, like, I'm broken, instead of like, the things around it that I was talking about with, like, stress and the environment,

Elle Billing:

right, being the thing that is the issue, yeah, well, and also, when you said, like, getting the kiln so hot that it causes it to melt, or, you know, the the kiln heat being the problem, or, like, the stress and things being The problem, or people only seeing breakage as the disability? Our experience with connective tissue problems, like, we don't"look," I'm using quote fingers for people listening. We don't"look" disabled, but connective tissue disease sure is a bitch, you know?

Car Riegger:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

like, I'm thinking, like, melting pottery and melting glass? I'm like, yep, hurts like hell,

Car Riegger:

yeah.

Elle Billing:

Like, we are not held together well, but it doesn't look that way.

Car Riegger:

That's like kind of something that's I keep working toward, but it's really, really hard to show is like the invisible, like it being one way, but it's so, like, material has been one thing. I think I'm getting closer because, like, glass and ceramic people always are like, Oh, it's so fragile. It's so whatever, but it's actually really the ways that we're using it are, like, really strong, like, when you make it yourself, and I can choose the thickness and like, it's actually stronger than like, for example, like, buying something ceramic or glass that's like, made, like, industrially, like through, like, commercially. Like, this is it's way, it's way different. And so it's just that is one thing that I've been trying to work with is, like, it's actually really strong, but like, people always think it's like, oh, this is really fragile. It's gonna break.

Elle Billing:

Just something that popped into my head is, it just takes me a lot longer to do things because of recovery time, because I can't push myself too hard, because I sleep 12 to 14 hours a day, like, all of these reasons. And I just think about the difference between how long it takes to make one handmade ceramic or glass object compared to something that comes out of a factory, right? Like, I'm it's not that I'm fragile, it's that I'm everything just takes more time and more recovery, like, and that's really the difference between or a difference, not the, a difference between in the materiality of like, what you're working in, and the materiality of like, something more mass produced or more able bodied, right? Because, like, one thing can function in like, an industrial society, and the other thing can't, like, you just can't get that type of product,

Car Riegger:

yeah,

Elle Billing:

from mass production, like it has to be, it's, it's more intimate, it's more slow, it you have, you have to be more careful with it, and it takes a whole lot of time,

Car Riegger:

yeah, and I'm the one making it. So,

Elle Billing:

yep, yeah,

Car Riegger:

it also takes more time. And that's another thing too, that, like a lot of artists are really influenced by like the like, capitalist idea of just like, constantly making and I'm fighting and working with my body. I am influenced to try to keep up, but then I need to remind myself, like, you know, my practice is also a part of like, the resistance of like, just slowing down and like, and that's also how my pieces, I think, have so much like, energy to them when you see them, because, like, I put a lot of time into them.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, I was just talking to a friend and mentor about the amount of time that goes into my my artwork on, like, from the research phase all the way through completing it, right? And it's a lot, it's a lot of time. And yeah, I don't, I can't do those 100 day art challenges. I can't even do a 30 day art challenges. And you know, I used to feel like something was wrong with me, and I was always disappointed, because everyone's Instagrams grow exponentially, right when you can do a challenge and participate, and then everyone like likes each other's stuff, and it's really good for visibility, and I'm just not going to be visible. And I'm like, wow,

Car Riegger:

yeah

Elle Billing:

what a metaphor.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, I think about that too well. I mean, especially, like once like the videos, like Tiktok and stuff like came up, I'm like, I can't, I can't do that, because you also then have to be a content creator, plus making the actual objects, plus like, researching, plus like, and it's just that's adding content creation on top of it is, like, way too much. So I've, like, I do small things, but it's really only like, at the middle and end of the semester, because, like, everything else is just too crazy.

Elle Billing:

If I'm super active on social media it means that I'm probably in bed,

Car Riegger:

yeah, yeah,

Elle Billing:

and not doing anything else. Like, all I can do is be on my phone. I can't do anything else because I'm either in too much pain or I'm too tired,

Car Riegger:

yeah? Like, I definitely scroll a lot, yeah?

Elle Billing:

If it's if something is be, if my social media is doing really well, it means that I'm not,

Car Riegger:

no, that's real.

Elle Billing:

You mentioned in the prep, like, something about contained and uncontained.

Car Riegger:

Oh, yeah

Elle Billing:

is that something you want to talk about? There was no context with those words. And so I was like, This sounds interesting

Car Riegger:

Oh, yeah, I guess-- Yeah. So my one thing that I've

Elle Billing:

Yeah, you had very few words, but they were all, along with all of the-- there's a lot going on in my- like, really rich words.

Car Riegger:

They're all related, yeah.

Elle Billing:

So just go for it. Dive in.

Car Riegger:

So my most recent, like, exhibition that's like, put together, is like, I use crip materiality, but I am putting together this theory, I guess, theory about, like disabled bodies being contained and uncontained. And I'm going for uncontained and pushing that and like, what does it mean to have, like, an uncontained body. And that kind of started with I went, I took a research trip, and I got a grant for that as well. And I went to the Mutter Museum, which is in Philadelphia, and that's like a place where they have real human specimen, and all of them, if they're not labeling them as disabled there, they are disabled in some way, like there's something wrong with them. And that's why they were collected for this doctors. So originally it was meant to be for teaching, and then for some reason, they're just like, opening it up to the public. And so I knew that that was just a place that I was interested in. I didn't really know why, but then I went there, and I just spent time looking at the-- especially like the wet specimen are in glass jars, which was like, also motivating me to think about, like, how I'm using glass, and am I containing things, or are things being left open-- and so uncontained became, like my response to that museum, and like not having my body be restricted by any anything, in terms of, like physically being restricted, in terms of like how people are viewing what my body should and shouldn't be doing. And so I made this piece. All of them were a response to it, but the first piece I made was a IV bag dripping water into an arm, and then the arm had a crack in it. It was ceramic, and that was dripping onto the floor, onto a pillow. And so like that, that became like, literally, like, dripping out of a container. But also talking about that, the person that I took a mold of, because I'm also taking molds of real people with disabilities, that person got infusions all the time, or still does. And so like that flowing and refusing to hold and be refusing to be contained, is kind of like how I am thinking about bodies right now.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, that's really, that's really powerful,

Car Riegger:

yeah, because a lot of like ceramic and glass things are also very like contained. And so I think it's also just been an interesting way for me to think about those materials.

Elle Billing:

I went to one of those bodies exhibits that the that were traveling ones, you know. And most of them are, there's like the plasticized bodies,

Car Riegger:

uh huh.

Elle Billing:

And a lot of them are, you know, shown in the one that are, like, more of the whole bodies that are shown in poses, you know, and they featured muscles, different organs and stuff. Part of it there was, like a small part of sub exhibit within the large exhibit that was like tumors and cancers and disorders and things. But really, that whole exhibit was really, I had a hard time actually being there. It was really difficult for me,

Car Riegger:

yeah

Elle Billing:

I think if I had been at one where, knowing that all, or most of the people had been disabled and like, their specimens had been collected and now we're being displayed, I would have that would be challenging, and I would probably have to, like, process it through Making some pretty

Car Riegger:

Yeah, yeah,

Elle Billing:

intense art too

Car Riegger:

it is really emotionally charged. No one else there is viewing it that way either. So actually, I think,

Elle Billing:

and that's, that's how I felt when I was there too. Everyone's like, this is so cool. And I'm like, Yeah, part of my problem was that I knew where the bodies had come from. Like, yeah, I knew the backstory. And I'm like, nothing here talks about the backstory.

Car Riegger:

Like, yeah, so, like, my the bigger problem that I had with it was how people were reacting and responding to it, and then the framing around, like, how the museum is choosing to do it. It's literally like, so if you look at look up images of the Mutter Museum, they they made it specifically to look like a cabinet of curiosities, like there's wood with glass in front of it, and it's so it makes me so angry that they don't realize how problematic that is, like a freak show they're trying to call back to the time that, like when he collected them and stuff. But it's still so it's so problematic, and so automatically, it's easy for viewers to look at it through in that way. And there's a lot of they chose to use words that were okay to use in the past, but are definitely not now when labeling things and they like, have a pamphlet about it, but like, no one reads the pamphlet. Like, let's be real. Like, no one reads the pamphlets, no one. It's just just all, all these choices were just really uncomfortable. And, I mean, the biggest thing that keeps going through my head is like, what should happen to this museum? And it's not that, like, I want it to be taken away. It's just the framing for it is so basically, I want a disabled person to be in charge there, or at least there, to be like some kind of disabled consultant, because they just need to realize, like, how it's, it's housed in the College of Physicians that's In Philadelphia, and so it's, it's under in a medicalized, like institution, and so the people who run it are from that. They're not, they're not disabled. So, yeah, there's just, so there's a lot of problems with how it's framed. And it made me really angry to like, I was trying to take in how emotional it is. And there are kids running around and like, Oh, look at that. And like, all this, yeah, kind of stuff. So

Elle Billing:

it's like, that's not gross. The framing is gross.

Car Riegger:

Yeah,

Elle Billing:

bodies are delightful,

Car Riegger:

yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, because I was kind of like, thinking about my work, and I'm like, Okay, I'm putting disabled bodies on display. How have they been put on display in the past. And so I've read about freak shows, as well as, like the cabinet of curiosities, and so this was my one chance to like see it in person, and then hopefully, me putting disabled bodies on display is functioning a lot differently than some of the spaces before.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, yeah. That's a lot to chew on. Yeah, it's, it's, um, yeah, yeah, that's, that's a thing. That's a big, yeah, there's a lot of decisions to make there. I mean, and I think being a disabled person doing it, I mean, you're already making different decisions in how you present things and like, it's all disabled people that you're working with. I mean, already there's a different lens on it,

Car Riegger:

yeah,

Elle Billing:

it's really fascinating.

Car Riegger:

I mean, I knew for sure that I wasn't going to use, like, wood framing. It was, like, one thing I was like, not going to do,

Elle Billing:

and updated language, yeah,

Car Riegger:

yeah. And then yeah for sure, like, since I'm in glass, like, a lot of people are making, like, cups and stuff, and since I'm making sculpture, it's a little different. But I knew that, like, I wasn't going to have like, lidded jars and like things like that. So yeah, like making, looking at what happened, and then, like, making choices that are essentially the opposite of those choices. Yeah.

Elle Billing:

So you're working on your MFA? Yes. I noticed I was when I was doing my prep, I noticed you finished your BFA in the spring of 2020. What a time to be alive.

Car Riegger:

Yeah.

Elle Billing:

Can you talk about a little bit about finishing that last semester during the spring of 2020 like, as a disabled and ill person, like,

Car Riegger:

yeah

Elle Billing:

finishing a studio degree during the beginning of lockdown.

Car Riegger:

Yeah

Elle Billing:

Unless you're sick of talking about COVID, because, like, aren't we all but

Car Riegger:

the problem is, is, like, it is like a lot to talk about, but there's so much still to talk about, and people are now just done talking about it, so I'd actually rather, like maybe be annoyed at myself and talk about it, than

Elle Billing:

Fair, fair.

Car Riegger:

Because yeah, and like, I literally just got COVID, and no one seems to care anymore, and I'm the only person masking and just like stuff like that.

Elle Billing:

My parents got it last summer, and like, my partner and I were taking care of them. And we were masking in the house the whole time, and we would eat on the porch. And we even though we were sharing the home with two parents, yeah, you know. And I was like, on it, I was getting were taking care of that, my partner and I managed not to get it.

Car Riegger:

That's good them paxlovid. I was on the phone with doctors. I was making sure that we were like, they were not gonna get complications. I was like, you kept like, I can't deal with anything. Like, I take care of my mom already. I'm like, I can't deal with anything more severe than what we're dealing with. I can't deal with the mortality of my other parent. You know, yeah, like, you can't get sick. Like, I already deal with one sick parent. I can't do both. And as we, like, went over too, like, having, like, EDS, POTS, and like, everything already. It's like, if one thing happens, that's why I got so nervous to get it at all. And I just happened to be exposed to someone who, like, didn't know that they had it

Elle Billing:

I got a cold in January, and I was out for two weeks. Like, yeah, I don't remember it. I hardly remember it, because when I get anything up in the head region, I have chronic migraine. So, like, I, yeah, I it's like, it's like, I time traveled, like, from a cold, just from the Christmas crud cold, because I never go out, really. And so I had spent time with a big family gathering at Christmas, ended up with this nasty cold. And I just so anything like you said, anything we get is just complicated. So, yeah.

Car Riegger:

So specifically for the BFA, I was in Ohio, which was one of the places that shut down the earliest, and so I was done in February, very early. And then I went back to live at my parents' house, because it was either that or I was, like, living, I had a single, like, apartment, and I didn't really want to live alone with a pandemic going on. And so I had a lot of my work, like, already put together, and we, like, literally just dropped it off in the gallery, and then they took photos. And that was like, it. Like there was no-- and then our graduation was virtual, if you can imagine,

Elle Billing:

So anticlimactic.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, it was really weird. My mom liked to celebrate, like, made a cake, and like, we tried to, like, do stuff, I feel like, but it was still really weird. So in terms of in the moment, I thought like, oh, like, my work feels more applicable now, which was interesting at the beginning, but then now no one cares about COVID. And actually, I feel like I learned more about how ableist and self centered people are than it actually like being able to, you know, now it feels like everyone could talk about like illness and disability and stuff, but they're just refusing to think about it, but yeah, thankfully I didn't get it early on, because I took it, like, really seriously, and I was vaccinated like, early, like, I was able to get, like, the vaccines, like, in the early group. Yes, so was I. They-- I was in Idaho. We were one of the last states to shut down. We didn't shut down till spring break, in March, and then, because I have asthma, I was, we went to remote learning, and they still wanted the teachers to come into the building to teach remotely. So like, they're like, you still have to come to work, but none of the kids will be there. And I was like, I have asthma, so my doctor wrote a letter, and I so I, so I got to teach from home. I didn't have to go in, except I went in the day they did the vaccine clinic, because they considered teachers frontline workers. So it's like, I went to work to get a shot, and then I left. Otherwise I didn't see anybody. But Idaho was a wild place to live during all of that. And then I left. That, that was really, the remote teaching conditions and having a neurological problem and a small computer screen teaching deaf kids on Zoom was really a catalyst for my illness is getting way worse, and because, yeah, I went from having like, four, like a migraine attack, like once a week, to having 12 in a month, that first month of remote teaching, because, like, the amount of eye movement I was having to do on a, on a computer screen, yeah. And it just got worse from there, yeah. And then medical crisis, medical leave, resigning, moving. Was all catalyzed by the pandemic, like I didn't get COVID, and I didn't end up with long COVID, but I ended up with long term complications as a result of the pandemic, which is kind of a weird place to be in, too. And then Idaho, you know, I was friends with one of the, with a doctor who was, I don't know what position title he had, but he was the one who we made the decisions for closing a couple of the region, whether or not the regional hospitals would close or open, and so he had to report at the city council meetings every week on case numbers and stuff and like, he was having to answer questions on like, ivermectin and things like that from city council members. Like every week. I was like, I don't know how you do it. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Elle Billing:

I just having to be like a reasoned science voice in a very unreasonable city

Car Riegger:

one, and now it's there's just no keeping track, at least from what I can tell, yeah, no one, like, really talks about it,

Elle Billing:

yep.

Car Riegger:

And it's just like, really, it's really hard.

Elle Billing:

And then now we're layering, like, other diseases on top of that that we're not tracking.

Car Riegger:

So, right, yeah, because then I was like, I was hearing about RSV and, like, bird flu and like all these other things. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't, yeah, it's giving--Yeah. So, like, new viruses of any kind, but also including covid, like, have made my anxiety just, like, really bad. Oh yeah, no, I'm with you there. I mask everywhere, and I was I took my mom to Jo Ann fabrics this week. My mom used to be a professional seamstress, and so she wanted to say goodbye to Joann, yeah. And so we went to Joann's this week, and I was wearing, I have a T shirt from the magazine SICK from the UK, yes,

Elle Billing:

and just SICK on the front and on the back, it says A Thoughtful Magazine. But I had my little backpack purse on, so you couldn't read the back. So it just said SICK, and I had my mask on, and this lady at Joann's was like, I love your shirt. She goes, I bet it keeps people from asking why you still mask. And I was like, I didn't even do this on purpose. The shirt I grabbed today, I said, but I'm gonna do this every time I come to town now. She goes, You take care of yourself. That's so great. She's like, I was a substitute teacher. She goes. And then I stopped subbing because those kids made me so sick. And I was like, I used to be a teacher. And you're right, kids are gross. Yeah,

Car Riegger:

I don't, yeah, I don't think that would I got nervous, even with my small classes, because I had the opportunity to teach this last year, and it made me anxious, and I don't even have that many of them, and they're also adults, because we're in college. But yeah, yeah.

Elle Billing:

So Okay, one last question before we finish up, what is one true thing that you have learned from your creative practice?

Car Riegger:

I think what keeps me going for my practice, is my connection to the community, the disabled community. It's it's how I came to terms with being disabled myself when I was like a teen and hitting puberty, and it's how I have felt like, even slightly okay when I've not been okay. And it's something that I'm trying to keep incorporating with my work, of like, taking molds of other people. And it's kind of like, you know, after the semester, I get like, really depressed, because everything suddenly stops, and everything like changes. And I always have this like crisis where I'm like, Why do I even care about this? And every single time, I always just come back to, like, the disabled community. And so I think that is, like, my my true love. And like, what, who I'm always thinking about as I make a piece, whether it's like that person, but also just kind of in general, like love letter, like to the community

Elle Billing:

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, thank you for sharing your art with everyone.

Car Riegger:

Yeah, I'm so glad that I can at least get it out there, like online and, you know, install like, in places where I'm at like, as much as I can.

Elle Billing:

Yeah, thank you for being here today.

Car Riegger:

I had a great time. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Elle Billing:

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Hoorf. To get the complete show notes and all the links mentioned on today's episode, or to get a full transcript of the episode, visit Hoorfpodcast.com Join the Blessed Herd of St Winkus. By signing up for our newsletter, you can get Hoorf episodes delivered directly to your inbox. What's more, you get invitations to our monthly Coffee and Biscuits Chat, where you get to hang out with Ricki and Elle, talk about the show and connect on the topics that mean the most to you. You can sign up for that at Hoorfpodcast.com if you become a patron for only$3 a month, you can support the creation of this podcast, help pay my editor, and join a community of caregivers out here, just doing our best. Thank you again for joining me Elle Billing, the chronically ill queer femme who is very tired on this episode of Hoorf. Until next time, be excellent to each other. Hoorf is hosted by Elle Billing@elleandwink. Audio editing by Ricki Cummings @rickiep00h music composed by Ricki Cummings. Hoorf is a production of Elle & Wink Art Studio LLC, all rights reserved. Hoorf can be found on all social media platforms@HoorfPodcast. At H O O R F podcast, open, and here comes my mother.

Contributor

Ricki Cummings

Producer