Episode 023: Exploring Colorado and Learning to House Hack with Ben West

What makes Colorado a one-of-a-kind state? Let’s hear from fellow real estate broker Ben West as he shares the joys of moving to Colorado and exploring the great outdoors! If you’re looking to invest in the Denver market or move here yourself, Ben shares all the best parts of moving to the thriving city of Denver!

After escaping the rat race, Ben breaks down everything he did to set himself up for financial freedom. In this jam-packed episode, Ben and Ian talk about the life-changing perks of real estate investing, overcoming the first road bumps as a first-time investor, and the best time to invest in your first property.

Key Takeaways:

[0:01] All You Need to Know About Ben

[1:18] Snowboarding on Weekdays: Only in Colorado

[3:15] The Zen of Marathons

[7:50] Celebrating a Dog-Centric Town

[12:05] The Great Outdoors: Ben’s Camping and Hiking Adventures

[18:40] Life Before Financial Independence

[23:15] Starting With Zero: How Ben Got His Start in House Hacking

[26:30] On Ben’s First Rodeo With Financing and Downpayments

[29:20] When Is The Best Time In Your Career to Take The Plunge?

[33:20] The Best Teacher for Any Real Estate Beginner

[35:35] Making the Transition From Buyer to Homeowner

[38:20] How You Can Make The Most Out of the Market

[43:05] Transparency Is Key: Running Through Ben’s Profits 

[46:18] Tips and Tricks for Airbnb Owners

[49:09] Get the Insider Info on Ben’s Game Plan

[52:20] Ian’s Next Big Moves

Resources:

Stay in touch with Ian Jimeno and Ben West’s social media handles and follow them for more real estate with a dash of lifestyle goodness!

Ben West

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benjy_west/?hl=en

The FI Team

Website: https://danguenther.cityofdenverhomes.com/ 

Ian Jimeno

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ian.realestateagent/ 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@ian.realestateagent 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkuP-zK4xY-wPzXg9Qelbtw 

Website: ​​https://www.ianjimenodenveragent.com/

Invest in Denver website: https://www.thefiteam.com/invest-in-denver

Transcript

Ben: All right. What's up, Invest in Denver Podcast? It is Ben West here, with my guy Ian. I'm here to talk about life, real estate, all the exciting things in Denver. A little bit about me is I moved to Denver two years ago. I’m from Ohio. I got the Midwestern background. Some things I love about being here is the weather. 100% it just makes you way happier than any state that's gray. You could do things outside, which I love. I love to run. I love to snowboard. My favorite mountain is Keystone. I love going by myself on a weekday and just zoning out and getting to just enjoy that time. Some of my other favorite things are making cocktails. My favorite drink, go-to drink, if anybody knows, is the boulevardier, which is just a Negroni with rye whiskey instead of gin. I highly recommend it. A lot of good cocktail bars in Denver I can talk about as well. But yeah, those are some high-end stuff. Happy to be here.

Ian: Nice. Dude, Ben, thanks for being on the Invest in Denver Podcast, man. Even in that two minutes that you were talking, I have so many questions that I want to ask you.

Ben: Got it.

Ian: Even with the snowboarding by yourself on a weekday. First of all, I noticed that that is a thing — having to go on a weekday, not going when weekend warriors are going. I'm realizing that it's almost like going to the movies by yourself. Like, I'm just going to have a date with myself and just enjoy it with a movie I want to watch and just zone out. It sounds like Keystone is the place to go for your snowboarding ventures. Is there anything else that you're thinking of?

Ben: Yeah, I think it depends what pass you have. I like to go alone, at least a few times at the beginning of season, to make sure I didn't completely forget how to use my legs and to not just embarrass myself with my friends. But I think it's a little like Zen. You find a little Zen moment to drive up there, like the hour and a half. It's usually not traffic on weekdays. Just listening to music or podcasts or something. It's super early coffee in hand. It's just good vibes. Then I think just being by yourself adds a little layer too. I love going with friends, but I love having a day that is just me, myself, the mountain. Then it's just like I don't have work to think about. It's just nice.

Ian: Do you have headphones in when you're going down the run?

Ben: Back in the day, I did use headphones when I'd go down. But it's actually super difficult. The world is so high tech. Everyone has Bluetooth headphones. I've never done it, because I imagine myself dropping one of these small buds while going down. Then it's just gone forever. But back in the day, I'd have the corded ones and would have it all through the jacket, get it under the helmet and wouldn't worry about it. But nowadays I don't. It's a little bit different snowboarding out here than in Ohio. I was not as focused. Probably now it's a little bit more treacherous. So, I don't usually listen to music. No.

Ian: For sure. I'm right there with you. I'm not much of a music listener or a headphone-haver on my longer runs. I run myself. I don't know if I told you, but I signed up for a 50k in April. I don't know if you're a runner of that caliber, but I'm not yet. So, if you ever want to go on a run — I feel like right now I'm averaging maybe 9 or 10 miles per session. I'm trying to up it until maybe that marathon status, and then I'll be ready for that 32-ish miles for that 50k.

Ben: Yeah, that's awesome.

Ian: If you're down, then let's go.

Ben: I'd be down. I think I always wanted to do — it's like ultra-marathon, right? 50k is that first step.

Ian: That's right.

Ben: I signed up for the Steamboat Marathon. This was this past summer. I was training for it with a friend. It's the second time this happened. I've signed up for a marathon during COVID as well. I got to the 18-mile-long run. I got a stress fracture in my left foot. Then I was like, "Okay, it's COVID. They canceled the marathon anyway. All good." Then I signed up for the Steamboat one. After the 16-mile-long run, I had the same exact pain in my foot and took just four weeks off. I felt so bad because my friends still did the full. Shout out to Anika. She still did the full. But I just did the half marathon, then I just stopped training. I don't know what's going on with my feet now. One of these days, I do think it'd be really cool to do an ultra. That's sweet you're doing that.

Ian: Nice. These are like standard marathons where it's on pavement or on concrete, yeah?

Ben: Yeah, that one was standard, but there's no spectators. If anybody can do the Steamboat half, it's so cool. You run on a road they shut down. But there's nowhere for spectators to be, so it's very just you and the runners. There's less than — I want to say less than 300 probably. The only spectators that we had were goats. There were goats they released from the farms we passed. They had little cow bells on their necks. I kid you not. I have videos running with goats next to me at this race.

Ian: No way.

Ben: Yeah, it's really cool. Then you finish at the downtown Steamboat area. So, it was really interesting compared to just a lot of spectators with signs the whole time cheering you on.

Ian: I'm so used to that. I ran almost a dozen half marathons when I was over in San Diego. There's just a ton of people. It's just the high-density area, right? It wasn't until I did a half marathon over in Death Valley where there was no one. I didn't even have headphones. It was like you were mentioning earlier, like the zen aspect of it. I absolutely loved it, man. But goats, I feel like that's a whole another level. I want to get on that level. That's so funny.

Ben: That's so funny. Wait. In Death Valley, I know there's a — it might be 100-mile race that they do there. Part of it goes through Death Valley. I've heard it's just terrible. That's where you just have to find yourself.

Ian: That's masochism at that point. You just have people that enjoy the pain, the David Goggins of the world, that stuff.

Ben: I was going to say David Goggins.

Ian: That's right.

Ben: Yeah, my man.

Ian: It really is a mental battle at that point, granted stress factors are huge, right? But when you're in that mental mode of like, "Hey, I'm not stopping when I'm tired. I'm stopping when I'm done," that's a Goggins' quote as well. I didn't have too much of a problem. Maybe I did wimp out by doing the half marathon. But maybe next time I'll do the full one. But the fact that it's Death Valley makes it sound that much cooler.

Ben: Yeah, it sounds way cooler. Actually, the David Goggins thing, we always joke. I don't know if you've seen the video of him. He's benching, and he's talking. Every time he does a rep, he says, like, "Who's going to carry the boats?" It's like, I don't know what he's talking about. Me and my friend, we always say that. When I was training for that, it's like whenever we got tired, I was like, "Who's going to carry the boat?" I don't even know what it means, but it's really motivational.

Ian: Carrying the boats, that is not an easy feat.

Ben: No, I think it probably has something to do with when he was in service or in Marines or something.

Ian: For sure. Yeah, I dig it. Well, again, thanks for being on here, Ben. We have so much good stuff to talk about here, man. But let's keep it light here first, as we have been already. During my times of hanging out with you in showings and just having conversations, I didn't actually see in-person your dog Lily. But you always mentioned her. Maybe she's a little bit secluded, seclusive. I forgot the word.

Ben: I'd say skittish, rude. Those would probably be the two terms.

Ian: Did you have her back when you were in Ohio? You brought her over here?

Ben: No. I got her, probably I had it for a year and a half now. I'm her second owner. My cousin lives in Fort Collins, and he's a dog trainer. He knew I was looking to get a dog back. This was like last summer maybe or two summers ago. I wasn't super serious about it. But you tell someone once, and they're like — he loves dogs. So then, it was anytime he had a dog that he thought would work for me, it was like I was getting a call. But I got a random FaceTime one time. It was just a video of Lily. He was watching her, and he's doing a board and train with her. He's like, "This is your dog." I was like, I don't know if that's true. But if you see enough pictures, you're like, alright. I had no idea, the undertaking a dog was.

What happened is, the previous owner turned her over to his dog training facility because she has Parkinson's. Lily was a Border Collie puppy that was gifted to her. She's obviously just a puppy. First of all, it's a lot. Then a Border Collie is just also insane. And so, she turned her over to them after board and train and was like, this isn't a good fit. So, he called me thinking, "Oh, Ben must have all the time in the world. This would be a great fit."

So, I ended up taking her. We didn't realize it at first. But she is not the most social dog. I got her when she passed the socialization stage already. The first six months are so important for dogs. For the first six months I had her, it was just socializing her, training her, meeting random people. What I've learned, that the reason you haven't met her, is she's very sweet and affectionate after you get to know her. But the initial greeting can be tough. She's just not at all you just let out and loves everyone. I just had to learn that that's her personality. That's not something I can change, which is fine. I love her how she is.

She can come anywhere with me. It's just she's not a great wing man. She's not going to be getting all the love at restaurants. I actually am trying to get her a harness that says, "Do not pet." Because she could go to farmer's markets and stuff, and she's not going to attack anybody. But once someone tries to come up to her, she's going to bark or go behind me. She wants to be a ghost. She just wants to be a ghost.

Ian: Yeah, just sort of like a wallflower. Observe it all. Yeah, I feel that. My dog Archie is a little bit that way too — very loyal, very tight circle of loyalty. Any sort of strangers that come in, it's almost like you have to pass the test first.

Ben: You got to pass the test.

Ian: Yeah, totally. If anything, I sort of blame it on the humans rather than him.

Ben: Oh, 100%. I'm the same way. If I could have had her from eight weeks old, I think she'd be a golden retriever in terms of social.

Ian: For real. Yeah, that's good, man. This is a very dog-centric town. A lot of people have dogs here. I always like to hear the dog stories behind it all, especially for Denverites. I mentioned this on several of the other episodes, where like coming from San Diego where the dog parks are on a scale of square feet. The dog parks here in Denver are like acres. It's insane to me. Archie absolutely loves it here. So, it's a blast.

Ben: Yeah, I bet. That's awesome. There are so many dogs here. It's insane, which is great. As someone who loves dogs, it's awesome. But it can be, as someone who has a dog who only likes dogs that are smaller than she is or the same size, it's a little stressful.

Ian: Have you ever taken her camping or anything like that? I know you're an avid camper these days.

Ben: Oh, yes.

Ian: She enjoys it, yeah?

Ben: Oh, she loves being off leash. I feel safe when she's hiking with me off leash. She's not going to run away or anything. Yeah, we go on a bunch of hikes. My job, in the summertime, we get to get off around 2:30 or 3. And so, that's usually before the crowds come out on a Friday. We'd always try to get at least a day hike in on a Friday, and then probably one other one on a weekend. We've done a lot of hikes together in golden, just doing a quick day trip together. She loves that. Her favorite thing is, we like to go car camping. I kind of got lazy this year. We just went car camping instead of actual backpacking. But she loves to hang out in the back of the truck and sleep after just running around the campsite for forever. So, yeah. For sure.

Ian: That's cool. Speaking of camping, I was doing some internet research. Because anything on the Internet is fair game for being a research. You're going on the Appalachian Trail. Man, that is not an easy feat. I don't know how long. Did you actually complete it? It sounds like you did it with your dad.

Ben: No. I did it with my dad. We did. I wouldn't even call it a section hike. We did probably 30 something miles of it in Virginia. It's called the Triple Crown. If anyone's heard of it, it's a nice three-night or four-night depending how many miles you want to do a day hike. There's three different peaks that you see. That's why they call it the Triple Crown. It's like McAfee's Knob, Dragon's Tooth, and there's one other one that I'm blanking on the title of. But there's these three peaks that you get to, and that's how you complete it. During COVID, my dad, he kind of got me into hiking. He's got quite a look to him when he hikes. He always wears the same hat. That's like a cowboy hat. Then he has a walking stick that was his dad's or his grandpa's that's made out of bamboo. He's always got those two pieces with him. We decided that we're going to do that during COVID. We think we did it in three nights, four days. We averaged — I think it was like 10 to 15 miles each day. Because the first day we got there, we're late and just did a couple miles. But yeah, it was super difficult.

I was like, oh, yeah. I was 22 at the time. I was like, "Yeah, I can hike as far as I want. I'm not worried." Then a 15-mile day came, and I was like, my 55-year-old dad is going farther than I am. It was way harder than I expected, but it was so fun. I learned that I was not as in shape as I thought. I think it doesn't have to do a lot — it's so much of your mental just capacity to keep pushing instead of just your physical. Because it was such a mental battle. I mean, it's so small comparatively with what people have done on the Appalachian Trail. I think once you get into that, like two weeks in — they call it your trail legs — you have it at that point. So, you're just doing 15 to 20 miles, and your legs just keep moving. So, we never got trail legs at that point.

Ian: It's almost like sea legs at that point where you're on a ship for so long. Like, I'm just so used to this, and it's on autopilot.

Ben: You just keep walking. Yeah, exactly. I think my dad does want to do more little section hikes of it at some point, but he still lives in Ohio. He's trying to now do each small individual hike at — what's our national park there? It's like the smallest national park of all the national parks. What's it called? Oh, man, do you know what I'm talking about? You probably don't know what I'm talking about. I'm going to Google it really fast. Ohio —

Ian: In Ohio? Yeah, go for it, dude.

Ben: Yes, Ohio National Park. Cuyahoga National Park. It's the smallest national park. He's trying to knock off every trail that they have there at the moment.

Ian: Sweet. Nice.

Ben: Yeah, it's cool.

Ian: That's cool. Especially dads, they got age. Here I am in my 30s. I'm like, dude, that is something that I need to prepare for and make sure I have enough Advil for this stuff.

Ben: Yeah, he was having Advil every night. It was one of those, for sure. I got plans to do the Colorado trail, I think, this next coming July. Most people can do it in 28 to 40 days. So, I I was going to take off that month I think and try to get at least a good portion of that. I'm with one of my friends who also loves to hike. I've heard great things about it. But I think that one is 500 miles. Definitely, it'd be a little bit more daunting.

Ian: And add elevation, too. I don't know if it's anything like Appalachian. Actually, there's another FI Team agent, Ryan Doner, he just completed it not too long ago. He's a changed man.

Ben: No way.

Ian: He's sick of peanut butter, but he absolutely loved it. It's a newfound introspection that he had for him, as well as a new reason to keep hitting that financial independence. After so many days, I think it was just him for a good portion of it, he ran into other hikers along the way. So, they were sort of traveling together. It's funny how people come and go or start at different times. It's almost like a metaphor for life as well. Like, hey, you're not going to stay with any one person for a really long time. Of course, if you're married, that's a whole other thing. But you don't meet them when you're like newborn. I think it's a transformative experience. I can attest to that. I think you'll have a good time, especially with your experience, too. I'm really excited for you, dude.

Ben: Thanks, man. Was he able to do it because he was financially independent and could just take the time to hike it?

Ian: Yeah, he was a software engineer for, I think, three or four years. He just saved so much money, especially because he was house hacking at the same time. He was like, "You know what? I just want to take a month off or two months off and just do the Colorado trail." He did it. I think it took him 32 days or something like that. Pretty hardcore. I love it.

So, with that being said, man, it sounds like you have a lot of good stuff going for you. I know you love your trails. You're here. Now you're currently house hacking. There's so much to it that a lot of people just don't know. You're already learning so many things that you didn't even know even before coming into contract or under contract and closing on this property. But before we get there, I am curious what your life was like before house hacking. Were you renting? Where was it at? What was your mental state at that point?

Ben: Yeah, I was living the life before house hacking. Not that I'm not living living the life now. But, I mean, I graduated and moved out here right away with three really close friends. And so, it just felt like a continuation of college. We all worked at the same place. We worked from home, and lived in a house right by City Park in Denver. We were just going on hikes, trying new restaurants. We hosted a Halloween party. We were just having fun.

I always rented a house for a year. I got Lily while I was there. That kind of life is real. I lived there for a year. I loved it. In your first year of work, it's difficult. But it wasn't super challenging. I still have free time. But then it started to become busy. I was like, "Man, I don't see myself doing this for 40 plus years." I always had that thought, but I was like I don't really know what to do about it. I moved in after a year of being there. I moved to Inglewood with one of the guys I lived with. He bought a property, a condo, there. I think it was when interest rates were literally 2.5%. I think his dad is a broker and was like, "You guys should look at buying a place instead of just renting." I didn't think anything of it. I was like, "I don't have that kind of money. That's crazy." So, I just moved in with him. It was all well and good. I really enjoyed living there, but I just kept having this thought that I didn't love working. I just didn't know what to do about it. Then I found—

Ian: Sorry. What were you paying for rent at the time once you move to Inglewood?

Ben: Inglewood was $1,500. It's what I was paying, which is steep. But in City Park, I have one of the master bedrooms. We're splitting it by four people. I think total rent was $3,095. I paid $870. So, it was very manageable, and I could still save money. But once I was paying $1,500, that was a big chunk out of each monthly income. That's when I started to be like, there's got to be something else I can do. That's when I started just — I was running. I was training for a half marathon. I was like, maybe I should, instead of listening to music, listen to something that's productive podcast-wise.

I think I found Bigger Pockets. But I only found it because I was specifically searching ways to get financially free or whatever. Craig's episode came up when he was on there just talking about his first property in Denver — that was like an uptown duplex, I think — and explaining the situation. Then I didn't know he lived in Denver either. Then I found his book, and then realized that he lived here. I listened to that audiobook. That's when I first time ever reached out to The FI Team. Then that's like you reached back out to me. That's how it all started. No savings. No savings at this point. It was just, I can't do this any longer. I don't know.

Ian: Yeah, going back to what you said initially. You were living the life over in City Park, and then now not so much. It's such a hard mental barrier to break through from, "Man, why would I change this current life situation? I'm close to towns. I'm close to restaurants. I can go out drink, and I can host parties." I'm not going to lie. I did that for like five years of my life, if not more, especially when I was going through community college. I was working at Starbucks. There were some times — I'm a different man now — I would be partying until maybe 3 or 4 AM. Then I'd have to open the Starbucks store in an hour at 5 AM. I was like, "Dude, let's just count some more shots, but it's espresso this time."

It's such a different mental leap almost of like, okay, yeah, this is nice. The lifestyle is nice. But the nine-to-five aspect of it is something that I do not enjoy. 40 years of your life, 40 hours a week, and only making 40k or whatever that number might be, it's just so insignificant in the grand scheme of what your life could be.

Ben: For sure.

Ian: It sounds like that's something that you got in a revelation. We're like, okay, there's people doing this. Maybe, what really set in that concrete of like, okay, maybe I should really pull the trigger on this? Because there was a point in time in our conversations of like, "Yeah, I might wait maybe until next year to really pull the trigger here." But after a little bit, you called me up. It was like, "Dude, I want to start now." Is there any sort of a catalyst that really brought you to that point?

Ben: Yeah, I'll be honest. The first time we talked, I think I was like, "Yeah, maybe the next 6 to 12 months." But in my mind, I was like, "This could be three years before this is ever, something that happens." I just think that that was funny, that initial conversation. But I think once I moved into the spot that my friend bought and saw that okay, I know we have the same job. Somehow, you've saved up to be able to do this. I've read this book now. People at similar age have done this. It's not like some crazy idea. I remember my dad is obviously a big mentor of mine. I was talking to him, and he was explaining all these things. I learned about house hacking and how I could buy real estate, and Denver's a hot market. Actually, all the things made sense.

It wasn't like there was this one part of it that was like, "This isn't going to work, so I'm going to scrap the whole thing." Everything checks off with you. I actually do the logical math and think about it. There's no way it shouldn't work. The biggest thing for me was just being able to get a down payment since properties are just so expensive. But I think there was never one big revelation. I just would find myself during work researching properties, like doing house hacking research. I was like, maybe I kind of liked it. Dude, this became like a little passion thing instead of just a way to get money and retire early. It was like, okay. I like doing this. If I'm going to do this much research on it, let's actually try it.

Ian: It's funny, too. Even nowadays, you're sending me certain house hacking deals that are close by you.

Ben: Oh, yeah. They keep coming. They pop up.

Ian: It's funny. Like, what is Ben doing? Isn't he working right now? He's like, "Dude, this is a great house hack. There's an up-down situation going on. It looks a lot like mine down the street." I'm like, "Well, dude, thanks." Hell yeah.

Ben: Down the street, but farther west. So, it's even closer to downtown. I know. I'll see these. It's not like I'm having — I love my house, and what I've done with it. But I think it is fun to look at them and analyze. That last one I sent you though, man, I would buy it if I had the money.

Ian: It's so good.

Ben: Yeah.

Ian: Greatly appreciate it, man. Keep doing that, for sure. Now going into like — okay, you've committed. You're like, "Alright, let's go into it. I firmly believe that, hey, this stuff can work out. If the numbers work out, then it makes a lot of sense." Especially with the current job that you have, I'm sure once the numbers work out, then there's really no emotion attached to it. Other than the fact that, hey, there's this mental barrier that I have to go through in order for this to even happen. I know you got pre-approved. I want to delve into the down payment assistance program as well. Because that significantly helped out not only you, but a couple of my other buyers. With 0% down on a property, that saves you tens of thousands of dollars, especially for your price point of $460,000-ish. All you had to do was come out with closing costs. But we sort of finagled our way out of that, too.

Ben: Yeah, didn't we?

Ian: What was that whole process like?

Ben: Someone called me. You start searching for properties, and somehow your email gets somewhere. Your phone number get somewhere, and you start getting just spam calls from a lot of different people. I think I answered one, not knowing what it was. It was someone explaining the down payment assistance program. I was listening, but I also was like, okay, I didn't need to pick up this phone. But I'm in this conversation now. Then it turned out to be really insightful. I think I called you right after. That may have been the time when I was like, "I think I want to jump in this now." Because this was the last hurdle. If I can get assistance on the down payment, I think we can do this.

The way that one worked is there's the income limit. I think it fluctuates. But there's a certain income limit. Then they give you a couple options on percentage down. Mine was 3% down and a 1% fee for using the service. It's a second loan, so it comes out as a second loan and like a lien on your property. But there's no requirement to pay it back until you decide to refinance or sell. At that point, they will take appreciation in the property.

In my mind, it was, if I can hold on to this house hack for five years or maybe a little less, the 3% of 14k or whatever will most likely have appreciated in this home. I won't have to worry about this. So, that was my thought. I was like this makes complete sense to me. I might not be able to follow the one year every year buy a different property, but it's a good way to get in to the real estate space. And so, that's how I looked at it. A lot of people say just jump in now, and there's not a good time. In my mind, I was like, "Okay. I could save for the next four years and have a down payment, or I could jump in right now and just at least have a foot in the door and be a part of it." That was my thinking.

Ian: Yeah, and we'll get through this at a later point. But the amount of knowledge that you've gained — I mean, we're still on a texting basis even after your closing. There's just so much that you're going through and learning about being a homeowner and doing some of your own projects. That's like, I would have never learned this stuff. If I were to just try to get to that near perfection of like, "Yes, I'm ready," rather than learn it as you go. Then as you go, you can build that appreciation, that rent, and things like that. I think a lot of people's hurdles, that is the initial hurdle of like I need to wait for the perfect time. There is no perfect time. It's almost like having a kid. You're never going to have the perfect time to do it, right?

Ben: Yeah, right.

Ian: Sometimes if you're ready, you're ready. Of course, I'm not fully rationalizing having a kid with having a house hack.

Ben: Yeah, it's close. A lot of responsibility.

Ian: Yes, exactly. Going on from there, now you figured out your problem of the down payment assistance. Now you don't have to worry about having to have that 3% all saved up. It's just a significant catalyst to getting into the game. I guess, just for the sake of time, let's move on to your current place right now. Maybe go through some of the numbers, what that thought process was like. I'm sure a lot of emotions went from, "Yeah, I'm showing. I'm doing showings and looking for the best property," to like, "Oh, shoot, I'm under contract." What was that like for you? Why did you like this place so much based on your research?

Ben: I really liked seeing places. I think we saw a good amount. We did a lot of showings. A lot of them, they look great in pictures. Then you get there and like, I'd never had that feeling of like, "Okay, actually, I could make this work." This place, I knew it was far enough away from Denver. The pictures looked really good that in my mind I was like, "Okay, it actually might be worth it."

I think I went to an open house before we toured it. Open houses are kind of scary. There was 8 to 10 other people in there. I was like, "Get out of here. This is my house." I initially walked in and I was like, "This is so house-hackable. You guys don't even know." I still wasn't I don't think ready to be under contract. Like you said, that's like, I don't know. There's a shift in your mind. You're like, this is fun. There's no money that I have thought about really in terms of it leaving my pocket. Then the moment you sign those actual contracts, I don't know. It was a big fear feeling.

I think you had a post about it not too long ago, that there's this shift when you decide to be under contract, instead of just showings. I definitely related to that. But I could tell when I walked in this house that the opportunity — because you were doing Airbnb. I didn't realize how difficult that was. I think the cash was the highest. I can also have a roommate up here. This is so perfect. I just wanted to be under contract. I wanted to get started. But like you said, there's so much learning along the way that I didn't realize, that I'm still so glad I did it. But I don't think there were many properties around that we looked at that had this opportunity to have this many different rental situations. And so, I think that's the biggest reason I pulled the trigger on it.

Ian: The setup and the layout was really what drew both of us to the property in itself. It's a four-bed, two-bath, two-one upstairs and a two-one downstairs, right?

Ben: It is a five-two. There's three bedrooms downstairs and two up here, yeah.

Ian: That's right, yeah. So, five-two. You had the two egress windows. I guess two of them are conforming. Maybe that's where I came in.

Ben: Yeah, you're right. Technically, with the conforming windows, it's four-two. Yeah.

Ian: That board game room, we could consider that a bedroom.

Ben: That one's not. Yeah, that would be a six-one if you consider it. But it's not even. I wouldn't let sleep someone in there.

Ian: For sure. The stuff you learn is not just being a homeowner aspect that you have to learn, but also the management of the property. Short-term rentals, Airbnbs, long term rental, medium term rental, whatever the strategy is, a lot of it is just based on experience. You can read as many books as you can. You can listen to as many podcasts as you can. The thing is that you're not going to really learn to what that customized experience is until you do it yourself. You even learn so much about yourself of like, "I don't want to do any of this contracting stuff. I want to just hire it out." I definitely learned that about myself, too. It comes at a price. But nonetheless, it gets done properly. It gets done quickly. That's what I like about it.

Ben: For sure.

Ian: With the actual offer itself, I know that we were in that shift of like, okay, interest rates are starting to creep up. I think you closed around that 5% marker, right? Right now, we're at 6.5%. But it's no longer that hot seller's market, everyone wants to buy, super high demand, and sellers would not even bat an eye if the offer was at 50k over asking price. You sort of at this positioning of "Okay, yeah, this house has been sitting on the market for a little bit, a couple open houses now." We were able to ask for so much from the offer itself. I wonder if you remember certain parts of it. What did you get out of it?

Ben: Yeah, I didn't think we would get as much back from the sellers as we did or so much just luxury, things that they did before I took ownership. That really changed the game. I think the numbers were — the original offer was 450. We offered that with a 10k concession so that we could do egress windows, or at least do one of them. They were like, "We'll give you 15k if you go up to 460. I was like, okay. I think I've changed my mortgage, like $50 a month. So, it was an easy choice. But I think just the things that we were able to get from them really pushed the deal into like, "This is it. I'm not afraid to continue on." I don't know if you want me to go into the details of what they were able to do before I took ownership or not.

Ian: For sure. Yeah, let's hear it.

Ben: I think the first was egress windows. When you first toured it with me, I didn't even know that, what a conforming bedroom compared to a non-conforming was. I thought if it had a closet, you were okay. They all had closets. So, in my mind, it was 100% bedroom. But in a basement, you have to have an escape window or an egress window for each guest. None of these bedrooms had them. I think the ballpark was like $4,000 to $5,000 each for each egress window. I think that's how we came to that 10k number. We're able to get them to write checks to be delivered to me on the closing date for two egress windows. All I had to do was find the contractor before the closing date. Then they would provide whatever that exact price was.

I was able to find a contractor that could do both windows before October 1 of this year. Because that's when I wanted to start Airbnb-ing it. It came to I think $9,000 exactly, which was perfect in that range. They wrote a check directly to that. I got it at closing. I felt real good. Then there was, also after the inspection, the radon. It was, I think, maybe 1.7 above what it should be. I think it was within the same day, we told them that. They were like, "Yep, we wrote you a check for whatever the price is for radon mitigation," which in my mind, I was a little nervous. I was like, okay, is this a red flag that they just want to get rid of this house, and they're willing to do whatever it takes to get rid of it. But I do think they maybe were in that space of the market shifting a little bit. We're afraid if we can't sell this now, we might have to drop the price. We have someone that wants it. We just have to do maybe a little bit of working with them to sell it. And so, they did the radon mitigation. I think was $1,250. That was done within the first week I lived here. Then they still provided another $3,000 of just a down payment. Not the down payment, the closing cost. 3k off the closing costs. So, it was pretty much nothing on my pocket, and I was ready to go.

Ian: It's almost like, "Do you want my firstborn child at the same time?"

Ben: Yeah, it was crazy. I remember I was telling my dad about it. He's like, "That's insane." Because the market was such at a point of, if you don't offer 20,000 to 30,000 over, your offer is not even looked at. So, it was cool.

Ian: The grand scheme of things, right? We do want to emphasize that, hey, take advantage of the market. If you're looking at a really hot market where it's on the seller side, the reason why it was such a hot seller's market is because interest rates were so low, and buyers wanted a house so they can get in at that super low, sub 3% interest rate where their mortgage would not have been the same if they were to come in even at 3.5% or 4%, especially at $600,000 property or a $700,000. It starts to exponentially increase with that higher price point and with that higher interest rate at the same time.

With all that being said, you took advantage of like, "Hey, I know you guys need to get off the market as soon as possible." You're seeing the market trend going out more towards the buyer's side. The sellers are seeing the same thing too. A measly $1,200 to take care of radon, it's like, "I don't care. My mortgage is $2,500 in order to hold this property. I'd rather you get this and have no questions asked." I think you just came in at a good time. I guess, to expand on that a little bit more, with the seller credits and the down payment assistance program, you did have to put in — what was it? $5,000 for the down payment. Sorry. Not down payment but the earnest money deposit, right?

Ben: Earnest money, yeah.

Ian: For that $5,000 of the earnest money deposit, that money doesn't have to go into the property itself. It's actually still for you. Because the state is paying for the down payment of the house, the $5,000 that was used as earnest money can be applied to closing costs. Because the seller was able to give us a lot more concessions than we were asking for, you actually got a check at the closing table to get this property in your possession, which is insane to me. I've never seen that before in my real estate career. You came out with a highway robbery.

Ben: I think it was. Because it was, I think $900. I walked out with $15,000 in checks on closing date. I was like, it does not feel right. I think it was a good timing of the market. But I mean, it worked out. I feel like when you find the situation that it works, it just feels right, then that was that situation. And so, I just had the gut feeling that I should just — this is it. It was well worth it. I don't know if you want to talk about the other property, but I did not have that same kind of feeling when we were on our contract.

Ian: No, we don't have to go into it. I feel like there's a lot. Let's go on this positive train here.

Ben: Yeah, that's sounds good.

Ian: Going into what it's like right now, when did you close exactly? Was it August or September?

Ben: September 2.

Ian: September 2. Going into September, right now, we're recording this December 7. So, you've had about three months going into it. I know the first month was just getting to know the property, getting the decorations going. What was the strategy going into this property?

Ben: I was feeling bullish in terms of I could have the Airbnb ready to go by October 1. I gave myself a month. But it worked out not great. I had a couple hiccups right when I moved in, or things that were issues with the house. I was gone for a week on a work trip, so I really didn't move in until it was like mid-September. In my mind, I thought maybe two weeks, I could get all the Airbnb decorations and get it all set up. But in reality, I just could not do it. That was the initial goal. It's October 1 egress windows will be done. I can set all the bedrooms up, get the pictures, get it listed.

Reality came in. I had to fix the piping for the hot water tank. All the other heating was not correctly installed. And so, that took a weekend, a lot of money. It's fixed now. That pushed me back a week, and then just other little stuff started to happen. It really got pushed back. I don't think I listed it. My full first month is honestly probably in the next few days of having the Airbnb up.

Ian: Oh, wow.

Ben: But my roommate up here, he moved in in October. I at least got portion of the mortgage covered for that month. I was able to start getting income from it. But now I feel like I'm at a spot where both streams are in a spot that's stable, they're passive. I don't feel like I'm doing a ton of work every day. But there's definitely some roadblocks right at the beginning.

Ian: What are the numbers right now? I feel like you're alluding to it. Then we can get to sort of Tarantino it. What are the numbers right now? What's the Airbnb situation like, as far as numbers and occupancy? Then I'd like to go into, what did you do to prepare for it?

Ben: Okay. That sounds good. The numbers, my mortgage is pretty high. It's 3,100, right around 3,100, I think. From my roommate up here, I get 850 that lives up here with me. So, that takes it to the 2,300 area. Then the first month of Airbnb was right around — I could check on my insights here. But I believe it was right around —

Ian: Hey, let's see it. Look at you with the app and everything. Hell yeah.

Ben: Oh, dude, you've got it if you don't have the app. Booked earnings for 2022 are 3,166. But that's combined November and December. November earnings were 1,581. That was the first month that I had it open. That was with 18 nights booked. I didn't open it until this time in November. Occupancy was pretty good. Occupancy rate was 100% in November once I opened it. That was great. That brought the mortgage down probably another 1,200 after cleaning costs. I was getting a little over 2,000 this first month of income on the mortgage. I wouldn't say right now that I'm making any money on it yet, but I also opened it at a rough time. Price was super low for the nightly rate. I think it does the automatic 20% discount for your first few stays. People were booking it in the $50 a night. It was more so to get good reviews, get the feeling of being a host and a landlord, and see what kind of problems I'd run into, and still get some assistance to pay the mortgage. But all in all, I'm still paying less than I did at that 1,500 last year. It was still a positive in terms of savings.

I think going into it in the future, the nightly rate would probably climb a little bit. Then once the seasonality of the holidays and Christmas slow down and gets to warmer weather, it'll be able to be a little bit more income-friendly. But those are the numbers right now.

Ian: Love it, dude. You're seeing it in action. It's a little unfortunate that you're going into it during the wintertime. But at the same time, if it's already better than your previous situation in the winter, wait till spring, wait till summertime. Then you can really automate your systems, make sure the prices are manually, if necessary, up to where it should be, things like that. You're tweaking certain knobs, so that you're as efficient as possible going into March, April, May, June, July. Because I was getting about 3,500 to 4,000 for all the summer months per month.

Ben: That's crazy.

Ian: And you have a 3-1. I have a 2-1. This is looking pretty good for you, man. I'm really excited for you. Going into, I guess, one piece of advice that you would give to future Airbnb owners who are looking to get into short-term rentals. I guess, what are some applications that you have used? Is there any other parting knowledge that you want to instill on the audience?

Ben: Yeah, I use Hospitable for all the communication with the guests and potential guests that does check-in instructions, any inquiries on dates, things like that. Then I use Beyond Pricing for the nightly rate and adjust it for seasonality, day of the week. If it's a few days before booking, it lowers it, all that good stuff. I don't think I would have been as occupied without Beyond Pricing for sure. Because I think even if you're getting less money than what you would have set the nightly rate at, I'd rather be getting $50 than getting no money for three nights. Those are the two I use.

I think anybody who Airbnbs any property should probably use those. Because it takes a lot of the pressure off of having to respond, having to set your price. Then the last one is the TurnoverBnB for the cleaning, which I think you've figured out as well. It takes some getting used to, finding the right fit of a clean area. But right now, I have the best cleaner ever. The price is reasonable. It's $90. It's per project, so it's not even like an hourly charge. She's great. I've had no complaints of people saying the space isn't anything but super clean.

Ian: Love it. Dude, I'm so excited for you, man. This is just month one, man. Imagine when the third month, fourth month comes in. You're starting, like I said, pulling those levers, leveraging it out and making sure that it's all running as smooth as possible. Going back to the TurnoverBnB situation, you do learn how to be a little bit of a manager. You're running a business. Whether you have to fire — which you've encountered already — or having to hire certain cleaners, interviewing well, things like that, this is sort of like baby steps to having your own business.

If that time ever comes where you need to move out, and you have to hire a property manager for this place, you want to make sure that you have the skills that you're currently developing right now to have that conversation, to fire quickly and hire slowly, whatever that might be, to run a smooth ship. Dude, I'm really excited for you.

Ben: Yeah, thanks, man.

Ian: I know you mentioned that maybe you won't have enough for — I'm not that I'm pressuring or anything. You won't have enough for the next property anytime soon. But what are your plans? Are you looking to do this again, or do you want to stay here for a bit? What's the plan?

Ben: That's a good question. I think since the assistance program, they gave me the down payment, I want to make sure when I do decide to refinance, or leave, or sell or whatever, I have enough appreciation. I'll probably stay two to three years. My goal in my mind is to buy another property by 2025. That's what I started thinking about now. But I'm still definitely just honing in how this one feels. I want to make it more profitable for sure. Having the roommate up here is really helping me. But at some point, it's a little tight. I understand that not everyone would want to live with someone else in a space while they're Airbnb-ing downstairs. And so, I'd like it to get to the point where maybe just the Airbnb is given enough income to make the mortgage make sense, or having enough income to where you don't need the roommate. That's what I'm thinking. So, I'm working out now.

But the goal is to get a property by 2025. Maybe a little bit closer to Denver, higher purchase price but have more savings at that point. That's probably turnkey. Because I'm in the same boat. I don't want to be doing any flipping. I don't think I have those skills. But I'd love to get enough properties. Let's say, it's every two to three years. Then the passive income is enough to where I could just do a job that I enjoy. Like I said, I love making cocktails. I'd love to be able to quit my W2 and then just go work at a pre-prohibition cocktail bar. It wouldn't pay the same. But if I'm getting the passive income from the properties and just being able to do that, I think I'd be a happy man. So, that's the goal.

Ian: Nice. I love it, dude. Going from a job that you need to a job you want is definitely something I want to get too. I often tell people that when I'm retired — in a way where my passive income pays for my bills, all that good stuff — I want to be a barista again. I kind of miss Starbucks.

Ben: That's awesome, yeah. Would you go back to Starbucks? Do you think you'd find a different store?

Ian: Yeah, I'd probably go to a different store. I will say that Starbucks did take good care of me when I was in community college. Because even working only 20 hours a week, I got 401K, dental, vision, health benefits. I was like, dude, I'm set. I feel like I'm an adult, but I'm only working 20 hours a week.

Ben: That's awesome. I didn't realize they did that.

Ian: Yeah, it's pretty clutch. For all you future financial independent people but you're still going to school, I would highly suggest going to Starbucks just to get the bennies, baby.

Ben: That's awesome.

Ian: With that being said, Ben, thank you so much for hanging out. But I do want to turn the tables and give you the mic. I want to make sure that — I like to have this as a two-way street. It's a relationship, not that I'm interviewing you. With that being said, I will give you up to three questions that you can ask me, whatever your heart desires.

Ben: Okay. I think you're giving me a little too much power here. It's a little Iangerous. I'll give the first one. I am curious about this. When I first met you, you had just closed on the current property you're at.

Ian: Yes.

Ben: You started Airbnb in figuring that out. Is your plan to — I know you hold a few now. Are you going to hang out there for a little while, or is this a short-term property?

Ian: Yeah, as of right now, where it's located, we are able to have the whole place operating as a short-term rental without any sort of business licenses, permits, whatever it might be. It might change. That does come with the risk of like A, the town hall might say, "No more STRs or whatever it might be." As of right now, the plan is to move out as soon as possible, when May comes around, when we've closed. That way, we're not living in the basement anymore. As of right now, it's okay. It's just a small-term sacrifice for a long-term gain, right? The lower down payment, I think that's the main thing. That comes at the cost of having to stay in there for 12 months. That's the plan. I think we might stay with my parents once that 12 month is up, just so that we have a better living situation. We could save a lot more money that way.

Then the next plan is, I think Kat and I are looking to get into either in Estes Park short-term rental or go into syndications, going into multifamily, investing passively. That way. Because it's all the benefits of ownership without having to deal with the tenants, the property, toilets, trash and all that good stuff. I think that's the next plan for our investing journey.

Ben: Got it. Okay. That's good to know. I remember you mentioning the Estes Park situation, which I think that's a great idea. I'm jealous. Because even if you have to stay there, not have to stay there but get the chance to stay there, and people aren't, I think that's an awesome spot. Okay. Question two, unless what else you got?

Ian: Also, investing in myself. As a realtor, I love doing this stuff. Honestly, if I wasn't a realtor, I'd be a barista. But in all honesty, I like helping out people like you. You got the mindset. You're like, "Let's go for it. I see the numbers and I see the results in my previous portfolio. I want to replicate that in my own portfolio." Being a real estate agent has just been super fulfilling. I love this stuff. I love breathing real estate.

I forgot what I was going to mention also. Oh, yeah. The short-term rental situation, the main benefit from that as well is that you can stay wherever you have the short-term rentals. If we go international like Belize or something like that, and we have STR over there, why not stay there for like two weeks? Just set aside some time. You can't really do that with a long-term rental?

Ben: No, that's a good point. It's going to sacrifice the security of long-term renter knowing they're in there for a while, and then having the flexibility to stay at your own short-term rental. A little tradeoff for sure.

Ian: That's right.

Ben: Cool. Second question. FI holiday Christmas party is tonight. Are you going to be wearing any festive gear or a tie? Are you going strictly business?

Ian: Oh, yeah, I'm definitely wearing — my sister-in-law sent over an early Christmas present. I opened it unashamedly before Christmas. It's a nice cable-knit red sweater. I'm definitely going to be wearing that tonight. A little bit busines-sy but also festive enough. How often do you wear a red cable-knit sweater?

Ben: No, not often.

Ian: I'm really excited actually to bust it out tonight.

Ben: Yeah, there's like one month you can wear that. This is the month. So, you definitely have to. That's awesome. I'm looking forward to that though. You said Santa is going to be there. Are there any other activities that are happening?

Ian: I already checked the list. I think you're on the nice list. We're all good there. There's appetizers, cocktails as well. It's going to be a good time, man. Bring your mom.

Ben: I'll let her know. You told me bring anybody you'd be willing. I was like, I don't have anybody. I'm going solo. But that's fair.

Ian: All Gucci.

Ben: All right. Let me think here a last question that would be a little bit more fun to get to know here. Let's see. Are you staying here for for the holidays? This is some background info. This isn't my question. This is a leading question.

Ian: Yes. Although, Kat has the 26th to January 2 off. January 22 is my birthday. We might be just chilling in Taos for that week. It's a little bit slower for me. She gets the whole week off. So, I think we might be going to Taos.

Ben: Okay. Got it. Nice. All right. Final question, because I'm curious about this. If you weren't investing in the Denver market — I know you have properties in San Diego — what would be the other market that you'd look at to invest in?

Ian: I'm a big believer in appreciation now. Honestly, I would go back to San Diego.

Ben: Really?

Ian: Yep. Just because the appreciation is not taxable, and I can refinance as much as I want. I could do HELOCs whenever I can. I just know the market really well. I grew up in that area. I know a lot of friends there. Thanks to social media, YouTube, I've built a little bit of a clout within my sphere of influence over there. So, if I were to find a property over there, I have people who want to invest with me. Just because they don't know the Denver market, I can't really invest with them here. But if I invest in San Diego, and they're comfortable with it because they live there as well, by all means, I'm all for it. I think I would go back to San Diego to invest there.

Ben: Got it. Yeah, that's sweet. It's unfortunate, but I've never been west of Utah. I've never even been to California. I don't even know what it looks like. That's awesome.

Ian: If you ever decide to, man — seriously, if you ever decide to, hit me up. Because I will either go with you, I always have something to do over there, or I will give you the best recommendations that I know for either best Mexican food, sushi, ramen, whatever it might be. All that good stuff.

Ben: I love some sushi.

Ian: Yeah. Cool, dude. Thanks, man. Thanks again for hanging out. Always good to hear your story again and again and again, especially in a more in-depth with this hour-long podcast. With that being said, Ben, if anyone wants to hit you up or want to hear more about your journey, or maybe steps within the Airbnb process that they're trying to get a hold of, how do they contact you?

Ben: Yeah, that's good thing to know. They can reach out to me on Instagram. I'm not too real estate heavy on Instagram, but it's probably the social media that I use the most. So, I will definitely see it. My Instagram handle is benjy_west. Benjy, most people spell it with an I instead of a Y. I spell it with a Y. It's benjy_west. Then you can have my email as well. If anybody wants to email, it's benjaminwest20@gmail.com. Those are probably the best ways if you got any questions.

Ian: Love it, man. I, myself, I'm ian.realestateagent. You can find me on Instagram and YouTube. I mostly hang out there. I'm also on TikTok, but I do it for the memes mostly. But also, sign up for my newsletter. I post up a lot of good stuff every week on Instagram. Instagram is Monday through Friday. But also, YouTube. I do long-form content, vlog tours, house hacking tours, things like that, deal analyses, and all that good stuff. With that being said, thanks for hanging out audience of the Invest in Denver Podcast. I am Ian Jimeno. A FI Team production. I will see you guys next week. Thanks for hanging out, Ben.

Ben: For sure. Thanks for having me.

Ian: Hell yeah.