Season 1, Episode 6: Sarah Zabel

Attorney Regina Campbell, Principal Attorney of the Campbell Law Group, has a wonderful talk with Former Judge, Sarah Zabel from her days at the State Attorney’s office to her time as the Judge that historically ended the ban on gay marriage in 2014. Join us as Judge Zabel, now the owner MAZE Resolutions, lets you into her world!

Lawyers for Children https://www.lawyersforchildren.org/
MAZE Resolutions https://mazeresolutions.com/
Women of Tomorrow https://womenoftomorrow.org/
Big Brother, Big Sisters https://www.bbbs.org/

Transcript

0:02

[Music]

0:16

hi I’m Regina Campbell uh we're back with you the Campbell corner and I have the uh you know hopefully you've enjoyed

0:21

her prior podcast today I have the pleasure of uh introducing you for her retired judge uh Sarah Zabel

0:28

our episode six of season one thank you I hope uh welcome oh thank you I really

0:34

appreciate you having me here today now thank you for coming I know you're very busy and it's um you know so I’m very

0:40

thankful for you to come and talk to us today a little bit about you and about what you've done um you have an amazing history I was my

0:47

understanding you started off as an assistant state attorney I did you know I always call it a journey

0:53

so just uh my reader's digest version originally I

0:58

wanted to be an entertainment lawyer because I had a theater background and

1:05

long story short I ended up working for the state attorney's office and

1:10

I’m loving public service and that's when I did the 180 as far as what I

1:16

wanted to do in life yes you definitely love public service you went on to be a judge

1:22

correct yeah so I talked a little bit about being a judge just sure sure yeah um and that

1:28

was certainly working at the state attorney's office public service that certainly was as good as a springboard

1:33

for me so uh going on to the bench in 2003

1:38

so you know just uh or can't believe it's 2022.

1:46

you blink your eyes and that's how quick life goes but um yeah just so much

1:52

so much experience and so many things that I saw people in the court system

1:57

and you know and how the court system impacts everyone so

2:03

I was uh I started out in dependency with the foster care system which was

2:11

very difficult um I think for me respectfully to the

2:16

people that work for the system and this is not an indictment on the system

2:22

itself but because there are people who work very hard and get you know so but um but

2:28

really for me you know the fight that shouldn't have been fought especially

2:33

for elder children in foster care because the younger ones are always the

2:39

babies they're the ones who find families you know the forever family the permanent homes and the older children

2:45

unfortunately who end up you know sometimes graduating you know not that support

2:51

that I have with my family right it's the reality is it's almost like a puppy syndrome

2:57

you know a young puppy you know something unfortunate sometimes younger children like you're saying more likely to be adopted or

3:03

to be found home and one of the teenage children which is a very difficult time in a

3:09

child's life they can't find home they can't find the support they need educational

3:15

stability is not the same right it's a different um structure although I’m sure everyone

3:21

attends very well by it you know but and yeah here in southwest I don't know if you've ever heard of the covenant

3:26

house the word actually supports a lot of teenage runaways that might be living on the street because it's too dangerous

3:33

yes I have I have um and there's a lot of community

3:39

resources and partnerships that do help these young people especially when maybe

3:47

they run away from their foster home you know and unfortunately there's the human trafficking side

3:53

where children are taking advantage of but there's another organization that um I mean you have also guardian items or

4:00

boys for children but you also have lawyers for children who are um who take

4:05

a case on prolono who are actually the lawyers for these older children that go

4:11

in and advocate for their needs before they age out of foster care which is

4:16

just so important it's so important to have that and thank you to all the attorneys that do that pro bono work because it's just

4:23

a measurable amount of benefit to the children into the community oh absolutely a hundred percent um and then

4:29

from dependency I went to criminal and that was for me

4:35

again I you know I touch on the young people and when children um in

4:40

and this is you know whether or not it's ever changed but when uh children

4:47

in who are charged with a crime they're direct filed to

4:52

criminal court at the network and the judges really don't have any discretion and

4:58

hopefully one day that will change uh and so children

5:03

who are juveniles who are direct filed who maybe should stay in juvenile court

5:09

I’m not talking about violent crime not having all that but certain things that were maybe they could get the

5:15

services they need so that they can have a life yeah so where I could when I was a criminal were

5:22

you know the children the younger people the juveniles who were direct file where I could help them and see

5:30

whether or not they could be you know I I do believe in rehabilitation I do um it's been you know you have this 15 year

5:37

old who you know they go to they go to prison two year for two years

5:42

they come out their monsters right yes potentially because of this

5:48

so I don't want to I don't think away from victims or anything but you know if you can

5:53

make them valuable and for the community and they think you can do too I think that's

5:59

that's important yes and I’m sorry baby monster was too strong of a word I just mean they become something that they're not they're generally what they've been

6:06

educated and reared in a prison an adult prison I mean they say children are not fully

6:11

developed their brain until they're 26 you know the uh they're from their brain frontal you know lobes so imagine this is what

6:18

they're saying so I do agree there has to be some balance there right to help these children maybe rehabilitate themselves yeah and come on

6:25

yeah yeah and I think we as a community

6:30

are responsible um you know whether through education or through resources

6:36

um to help these young people when they do they do have to go to prison about

6:41

their 1819 or maybe there's other alternatives alternative methods to help them to

6:48

ensure that there is not they don't repeat crimes there's not the recidivism rate that they do they are able to go in

6:55

the community and be productive to the community not only for their own life so they can afford it

7:02

for everybody and it's a win-win yeah and so that's a little bit when they talk about prison reform correct there

7:08

might be different levels of helping people to get out including children of course when they're very young maybe because that sounds like it's difficult

7:14

for them to get back on their feet to get jobs to be accepted back in the society which kind of creates sort of

7:20

that cycle right so that makes them potentially 100 yeah committed crime again and yeah

7:27

we go yeah it's 100 I mean there's no guarantee nobody has that crystal ball um

7:32

but uh certainly um I think uh you know if you give them a chance uh working together I think it

7:40

helps everybody and then from the criminal I went to civil I was I was a civil child

7:45

judge for many years a variety of cases from

7:51

the tobacco cases to commercial contracts complex commercial

7:56

personal injury real estate uh um non-competes just the yeah and it was a

8:03

hybrid which I which I enjoyed too because it was intellectually engaging too for me um because it was a hybrid

8:09

you had jury trials and uh non-jury trials so that also was interesting yeah

8:15

it's got to be you're kind of sitting in the seat of watching everything so you learn a lot of different perspectives of the law different ideas it just it's

8:21

going to be really interesting yeah yeah I know really interesting um and the lawyers

8:26

that come into IU that come into the civil courtroom are

8:34

are very good lawyers and for me it's all about respectfully

8:40

it's all about civility and some litigation should not be an oxymoron but uh you know professionalism is a key

8:47

and uh and I think that goes towards mentorship mentoring and mentorship and then my last four years almost four

8:52

years I was a family court judge and certainly that's you know I think I breathe on

8:58

that one because for me children in uh you know just like I mentioned dependency children

9:04

in the family court system um just you know the toxicity and what happens to them

9:10

emotional impact I mean look there's an impact on anybody in the court system whether it's a civil case probate but

9:16

family especially children sometimes you know when they're pulled in the scars and the wounds sometimes will

9:24

never heal unfortunately and it's true it is very true and it's um

9:29

it's difficult because if you look they don't have a voice it's like they can get up and leave they can't get up and divorce somebody they can't you know

9:35

they have they you know and some extent it's their parents right we understand that you know their parents are their

9:41

parents as a feminist lawyer I’m always also trying to encourage parents

9:46

it doesn't matter so tell us bad about you know you don't say this don't say that in front

9:52

of the children um don't engage this you know what I mean well he's so hard when he does this

9:57

or she's so horrible when she does that look who's looking they don't understand the difference they love

10:13

oh my goodness it's so true and I tell parents all the time especially parents who are going through

10:19

a divorce I mean it's sad that the marriage is ending but even though you're divorcing as a

10:24

couple you'll always be married as parents absolutely always and the best

10:29

parenting plan is a plan the written parenting plan it's good to go to have a plan to defer

10:35

to the best parenting plan is the plan that you stick in the drawer and you never follow yes you guys are just

10:41

closed parents right together and figure it out yeah nuclear family you know the

10:47

village and the you know children giving them love no perfect tip eric no perfect child it's just giving them that uh you

10:54

know empowerment and encouragement to succeed in life yeah I agree I agree

11:06

[Music] absolutely that's amazing what can

11:12

happen with your kindness it disarms so many things situations you know it's hard things are heated but yeah I mean

11:18

and Thomas James um the writer said there's uh

11:25

the three most important lessons on paraphrasing uh what he wrote three most important lessons in life is the first

11:31

is to be kind the second is to be kind and the third is

11:37

true I think it helps a lot you know I like that and it's my understanding that you also have a historic judgment

11:44

that you made on lifting bans same-sex marriages yes wow

11:51

that's amazing okay that must have been uh you must have

11:58

been I say judge I can only imagine cause I go in front of so many judges and I talk to them sometimes I can't imagine what's

12:03

going through their mind where they have to look at something and they're looking at the law and they're looking at facts and equity and kind of

12:10

go okay this is what it is you know so that's groundbreaking so yeah uh it's and you know I am probably

12:18

uh using this word ad nauseum in its journey but it's

12:24

in in court in the court system when the case comes in it's the blind filing

12:30

system so I think that's true with federal court state court that a case comes in

12:35

and whether it's a high media case or just you know case

12:41

that it goes randomly to a judge and it's interesting some lawyers get

12:48

the same judge and they're like how does that happen there's no rhyme or reason so

12:53

so when the case was it wasn't it was um in the newspaper and

12:59

all over the place that this case was filed and I remember

13:05

a lot of people don't know the story but I don't mind sharing it I was walking up the courthouse steps at 73

13:12

west byway which is the courthouse in downtown Miami the historical

13:18

courthouse and uh so I was walking out the courthouse steps and uh the judge I’m

13:23

not going to mention his name looked at me he said you have the case I said and like

13:29

I started looking behind me to see if he's talking to somebody else in my case what case

13:35

you're looking at me um and uh and I’m like okay

13:42

so I saw him and he said you know no one cares and so I went to my wonderful jay

13:48

donna who was just a sister of my soul my um and she said you have the case and I

13:54

said okay so um and my and I started well like you

13:59

know what it's true um with any case that a judge receives it doesn't you

14:06

know it's a case like this it's a high media high profile game but any case you know you

14:12

have to you you're informed and you're going to follow the law and facts and everything

14:17

that's given to you but the first case that I thought of obviously it was a process before I made

14:24

my decision um was loving versus Virginia okay which

14:30

was uh the case years ago with a interracial marriage and then it was a crime and then the

14:37

supreme court struck a shift and uh and all the cases that went along with it but certainly

14:44

that was the first case I thought not that I was making that my decision was there but I did think about the case of

14:50

equal protection due process and everything that uh was inextricably intertwined to my decision making but it

14:56

was it was uh I had my judicial system

15:03

I’m not being hyperbolic here but she was literally getting over 100 calls a day

15:09

and a lot of people look you can agree to disagree and people have very strong opinions yeah um and that's okay you

15:16

know we're human beings and we have opinions and it's okay to you know respect each other

15:22

and we should but um people were very felt very strongly yeah and uh so I was getting a

15:29

lot of you know people were protesting in front of the courthouse and all of this I hadn't even made a decision yet

15:36

and um and even and I don't know not a lot of people know this um I was up for re-election some people in

15:43

the back realm uh said that maybe you should just let the case go to another judge I mean this is you know yes

15:50

uh behind the scenes stuff yeah but you know what ultimately I

15:56

decided you know I didn't want to that's not who I was yeah and if I couldn't make

16:03

a decision like that then I shouldn't be on the bench right I mean although years a few years later I did retire but not

16:10

for already not for being pushed or you know or um

16:16

forced into it I made you know and I and I said no I’m going to keep the case

16:21

and we're going to make this decision so that's amazing because a lot of judges it becomes difficult you'll

16:27

probably see that in this climate nowadays even with political issues or other things so that was a hot topic

16:32

then and it was you know so hot

16:47

there's a lot of legal issues that are evolving as a result of it yes I’m seeing some of that

16:52

a little bit about to the pronouns also some of the gender fluidity going on and so forth from contracts and in

16:58

family absolutely everywhere yeah you know you know people are just okay should I say this so it's something it's a new

17:05

area of law for all of us to understand and how many and who goes on the birth certificate you know if there's a

17:11

circuit you know so I think that I think we're evolving and we'll see what happens but

17:16

I’m lifting the bands away that was uh it was um honestly it was just

17:21

it was a no-brainer for me

17:27

oh my gosh the courtroom was packed full of people I didn't even expect it I thought you know I

17:32

just come back from vacation and they said I’m like you know

17:38

um asking you about lifting the band and like at judge tinkle on the thorough bench

17:44

and his decision and uh he was going to do it I think on Tuesday then came back on Monday and they said well why are you

17:50

you know they're asking if you can live and I thought it was you know that was just ministerial was the big deal and

17:56

then I walk in the courtroom and there's

18:05

[Music]

18:13

I I mean a lot of my decisions when I was on the bench I did pause and reflect

18:18

because I want to be fair to both sides before I made that important decision but lifting the van I just you know I

18:25

just knew instinctively that yeah just yes yes and then all of a sudden you know it's

18:31

like it's just it was a moment in time that I always remember I would think yes I would say so I feel very historic

18:40

okay all right so um so now you've been retired and you're doing arbitrations

18:45

mediations is that correct yes wonderful wonderful what an asset by the way to families and businesses out there

18:51

getting any assistance with arbitration or family matters and mediation judge Abel

18:58

thank you that's a lovely endorsement yes yes absolutely um so your name of your

19:03

company is maze resolution talk a little bit about the name absolutely so

19:09

when I decided to retire that was the right time for me I had um

19:15

like anything you know you want to make sure before you make that decision like leaving any position

19:22

I did a lot of background uh research and uh and I spoke to several

19:29

retired judges talking to them and some of them said oh your name should be Sarah’s able resolutions or stable

19:36

resolutions because people know you and I thought I was again you know using

19:41

the word reflective I really didn't I wasn't thinking I didn't want to contain myself

19:47

to just day county I really I had synchro swim because I and that's why I didn't go to another

19:54

firm or practice I really felt sink or swim I had this vision to have a

19:59

statewide full service dispute resolution practice and I wanted it more than my name because my goal was

20:06

to bring in more neutrals and and to have an all-female dispute resolution okay very interesting

20:13

bringing in retired female judges I have one now Murray, some Pedro de glacier

20:23

dispute resolution practice statewide and so I decided not to

20:30

disable resolutions I wanted it more than that and so I’m a big acronym

20:36

person okay so i'm thinking you know uh and so I started playing around with

20:41

words and I and I said well you know people in the court system go through the maze right litigation okay so

20:50

come me um and uh so uh and that's what um i

20:57

so I started playing with the word maze m-a-c-e so what does may stand for M

21:02

stands for mediation okay should I mediate all types of cases commercial personal injury mid-amount

21:08

family workers comp employment so everything uh

21:13

anything to help people stay out of the court system but uh and a search for A stands for arbitration because I do

21:20

arbitrate um and uh Z stands for zabel

21:25

and um E I thought about what's what

21:33

[Music]

21:43

so the light went on um and so and that's my objective is to

21:50

navigate people or companies or individuals certainly families through the maze of

21:57

the court system or I do pursue two through the court system and get them out of the maze so that they have

22:03

closure peace of mind and are able to move on I love it the amaze

22:09

is

22:20

[Music]

22:34

actually face was easier to come up with and what do I do to eat

22:48

so I also wanted to ask you a little bit about we talked about I think you have the women of tomorrow

22:54

you're part of that organization yes can you tell us a little bit about that yeah very near and dear to me and um

23:00

a big part of who I am is uh certainly mentorship and I think

23:06

paying it forward and um and helping young people and I think look

23:12

bottom line is we all need mentors and at any age and you know and having people around us so

23:19

women of tomorrow I got involved [Music]

23:26

I’ve been a big sister and actually my little is now 25 she's a nurse I’m so proud of her I had to throw that in

23:33

there so but um the women of tomorrow

23:39

I’ve been involved with over 12 years now and it's an organization

23:44

that mentors at risk high school girls and this organization is

23:52

uh let me just say that I really have to give credit where

23:57

credit is due is Jennifer Valaby she was a news anchor many years ago

24:03

here in South Florida very successful news anchor and she wanted to give back

24:08

to the community especially young women and help them succeed give

24:14

them the opportunity to by by having business women in the community um

24:20

mentor and there's a there's a scholarship component but it's really about mentoring and i've um

24:26

and my girls now are in the you know working world and you know again it's

24:31

pay it forward and I just I love I love mentoring I love knowing that I’m

24:36

helping somebody because by you know helping somebody and help I’m just as rewarded I hope that my

24:43

girls are and I just quick story one of my one of my uh young ladies um

24:49

went to UF undergrad and now she and she grant and she just graduated

24:57

Harvard Law wow and these young women have uh you know they certainly

25:03

have uh difficult times and uh coming from fractured families

25:09

and uh some of them are older siblings and there's one parent and they have to come home straight from school take care

25:16

of their younger siblings they don't really have much but um and that's right yeah of course

25:22

and so having this organization and the business women who from whether

25:28

they're bankers or newscasters or lawyers um or doctors or

25:36

accounts they what we do is we're assigned to school and uh every month

25:42

it's not a big time commitment but that's not um that's really not for me

25:47

it's a non-issue it's we meet with the girls once a month and uh we bring in guest speakers I would love for you to

25:58

Come speak to my girls and we have workshops and they help and giving these girls the

26:04

opportunity to have a future and know that you know through our own experiences

26:11

they can see it's possible yeah you can see because you know we all come from various different backgrounds so even

26:17

when you're successful you know it's not like you come from the perfect family with all the money in the world there's a lot of people that are very successful

26:22

that came from similar backgrounds that they have yeah they can see it's possible you can see what this looks like

26:29

and my young lady who is now a working lawyer and I’m just working for a big law firm in New York um going back to

26:37

the decision the gay marriage decision she texted me I think she was at UF at the time she texted me and

26:43

she's Jen Stable as she was in college says john staple you were just on the john stewart show because he showed a

26:50

video of it [Laughter]

26:56

she was so proud of me as i'm proud of her yeah absolutely and you're probably like

27:03

i'm like do I want to see that [Laughter]

27:15

That’s funny because when you walk out of the courtroom you’re like hello everybody so but the organization really is uh for

27:22

me and there's many wonderful organizations like big brothers big sisters a lot of wonderful mentoring

27:27

organizations but women of tomorrow and um I i would

27:33

invite any professional woman who wants to get involved it's not all in South Florida there's other states too and

27:40

general roadblocking deserves all the credit and her passion for making a difference for these young

27:46

women and like my one of my former mentees is now a lawyer making a difference in the community so I would

27:53

invite and encourage to uh if you're interested in joining women tomorrow they are looking for mentors so I would

28:00

invite anyone interested to please either to go on the website and find out more

28:05

information like that great we'll also post the link to the website so that you know from this video if someone can't get to it so

28:11

i'll be more than happy any time to go go to any school or anything else

28:17

I wanted to also ask you 

28:22

One of the questions I ask everybody you know I success you know someone successful like you

28:29

we always want to know who most influenced you so

28:34

thinking about that question and person persons and

28:40

it's really uh so many people in my life so I’m just going to give a quick laundry list I won't go

28:46

into depth about it but um just a quick laundry list of people

28:51

uh of course my parents unfortunately were no longer here my mother and father were just so

28:57

encouraging and uh believed in me and my father who just

29:03

my dad was a fundraiser he whether he raised a dollar or brought in the money a dollar or a million dollars he treated

29:10

everybody in the same respect so I take my cue from him he's just such a good decent person and my mom too and

29:17

so and who else Dr. Paul Milton Miami-Dade college she was just incredible for me she's also gone now

29:24

and got directly from FSU and the communications department just all these

29:29

incredible mentors and role models and on the on the legal end I do want to just um Irving Gonzalez who was a legal

29:37

legend in our community unfortunately he's gone up but he was wonderful and I also Edith Osman who's a

29:43

past president of the Florida bar who had the courage and

29:48

I was very involved with fall Miami-Dade vlog past present but I and but I have to Edith Osman um

29:56

when she became president she committed to putting women um on uh committees board of our committees

30:03

and she stood by her commitment and she because I kept trying to get on a committee yeah and she put me on the

30:09

family law rules committee and so I really will always be grateful to her and of course my beautiful children

30:16

Jeremy desk and Jennifer I’m so proud of them and who they are as people and that they're good kind people because the

30:23

measure of success is not great it's not money either not money but um but I

30:29

have to say um uh not last but not least because everybody a rosemary barquette certainly

30:34

justice Periente and all those incredible uh judicial role models for

30:40

me but my husband my husband was in a catastrophic

30:45

accident years ago and actually I was four months pregnant with my youngest and

30:51

he unfortunately is a paraplegic but my husband is just an incredible role model and he's so

30:58

he believed in me as soon as he came out of the hospital uh he said told me he said I don't want

31:05

you to wait I I want you to run now and so he was out there championing

31:11

championing me cheerleading and I couldn't do what I do without him

31:16

and believing in me and he is the epitome of adversity we all have adversity

31:22

but lemons lemonades he gives up and he's such an incredible role model for my children who okay we all have stuff

31:30

in life right everybody's going through the stone and everybody's got stuff but he gets up every morning early in the

31:36

morning doesn't complain he's going through so many things but even when I decided to leave the bed she

31:43

said you know I know you can do it you're going to be great I believe in you and he's just always been that

31:49

incredible cheerleader no matter what life has dealt him he's such a good decent man and he's an incredible role

31:55

model for my children so I think if I put any

32:02

you know he just has just been an incredible partner to me that's beautiful very very uh

32:09

very unique to here too that's a beautiful story you know beautiful family beautiful everything

32:15

and listening to who you choose it's clear why you choose to pay it forward to help advance other women and help

32:20

mentor other people and children and so forth because you were also helped a lot and the people sounds like they helped

32:26

you open the doors that were often closed to women absolutely you know I tell and I have two boys two girls and I

32:33

and you know whether I always say that if somebody tells you no go to the next

32:38

person that tells you yes that um nobody uh just know your value

32:43

and just uh insist on it and this is that's an insist on that

32:49

insists and that's I mean not to take away at all that's what you do you insist on your value

32:55

maintain it but that tactic also works with a t when you call they say something you say

33:01

that's true that's true you know I think there's two words

33:07

insist and persist [Music]

33:23

tell you how many times so he was like Regina someone told me yes and then they told me no

33:28

and then five more people said yes and no and I’m like okay just keep going that's right that's right and if you

33:35

don't get the answer you want then you

33:47

I tell young people my own children I said look you know I hope that you come to me and I’m you know and I and there's

33:53

a village around you where you're especially law students who feel very isolated especially with covet and I

34:00

just I I try to express them please come to us you know whether you know that

34:05

we're here for you you're not alone and anybody that closes the door and you

34:12

shame on them and we really want to help you and because by helping you we're

34:17

also rewarded in itself and I mean I always say that speaks more of the other person than you as a

34:24

person but what they do to you and how they react to you so if they react negatively or they close that door or

34:30

they're selfish in other ways it doesn't take a lot sometimes it's just here uh here's the form

34:35

and you're helping someone rather than being nasty I mean that's not true we help each other you know I can't say

34:41

many times that someone has said to me your smile made my day yeah I don't know we just caught eyes hello yeah and

34:48

because you're happy sometimes how many times do people get just this

34:54

all day long yeah and someone smiles I don't know we're all sitting in line and we're sitting on the cars next to each

34:59

other with stress from traffic and we all love each other like you know and I just think just brighten

35:05

someone's even something like that I so agree with you and empathy and treating everybody with respect and

35:12

you know and just uh being able to even like in the court system coming back to the court system you know when people

35:18

come into the court system you know you don't know what somebody else is going through just you know again

35:23

and you can have somebody on the other side talk about lawyers but just you

35:28

know again that comes back to being kind being professional being civil and helping somebody else

35:35

especially a young lawyer is just starting out yes you know and I tell a little young lawyers too when they come

35:40

in you know sometimes

35:52

[Music] a more seasoned lawyer and then says uh you know how long have you been

35:59

practicing and I tell and I tell these lawyers I said you know what your answer should be long enough thank you yes yes yes

36:06

exactly I’ve had a couple of times where I’m stumbling you're so nervous first cutting the first couple years in the

36:12

courtroom and I had another lawyer just uh ministering

36:18

and I was like we're just another lady is that the

36:23

dirtiest luck and I will never forget it

36:28

that I’ve had been able a couple of times to help that attorney with minor stuff because there were more seasons than me and more knowledgeable you know

36:34

but I’ll be like hey I heard this case you got this and say yeah okay so I’ve had lawyers to me

36:40

you know or you ask that person or you do something you don't know they don't teach you to go to jail and

36:46

hi I’m here for a hearing or I’ll teach you some of these things and uh

36:51

you know I forgot something it's true it's true

36:58

[Music] by the way

37:03

yes so many times I’ve had judges smile [Music]

37:10

[Laughter]

37:19

of course and that's what we should be as a society but that's a bigger that's a bigger conversation

37:25

[Laughter] so I mean I want to thank you for being here this has been wonderful great to

37:31

see you because I haven't actually been able to see you I’ve been uh my daughter has been everyone called the house has been sick

37:36

with one thing or another I’m well past that but it was a rough Christmas so I have not been able to go out more lately

37:42

and i'd be able to see you you know yeah yeah it's so nice to see you in person and thank you for inviting me in you

37:47

know the virtual world and being in person and you know seeing people it's so nice

37:53

but I just a quick just uh fortunately the mediation world um and I think it will continue to be a

37:59

hybrid through doing mediations through zoom and we have been very successful

38:05

fortunately getting things settled and I think it will continue doing the hybrid in prison and through zoom and you can

38:11

mediate anywhere immediately in Boston the case and I was able to settle the case but because of the court system

38:18

they're respectful to the judges and uh you know unfortunately Covid really uh really put people um

38:25

you know the backlog and in the queue and for their cases to be heard but unfortunately we had to otherwise

38:32

everybody would be stuck in limbo okay and uh so really zoom has been a really

38:38

a wonderful platform to be able to remove cases settle cases resolve and so

38:43

but I’m happy and just uh as a good segway to say I’m so happy to see you in person and um

38:51

you're just just to really think very highly of you and just as a lawyer and as a person I just

38:56

do want to say thank you thank you for inviting me yes absolutely and one last thing I do want to say mediation I’m a

39:04

I’m a big proponent of mediation and my office manager knows this because he always says Regina you settle everything

39:09

I said well you know no I really most of the time most things

39:14

can be resolved through remediation and I think because it is a little bit easier with zoom too

39:20

it you know some people think it has to be this big enveloped thing sometimes you can just I just had a client uh say

39:26

Regina I have this gotten one pretty well for 15 years they have this issue now it comes up I said why don't you try

39:31

mediating it before you litigate because you've been able to get along you guys hit a little bit of a snag

39:37

um it doesn't have to be you know sometimes it's a co-parenting tool as well if you cannot come to an agreement

39:42

with a co-character therapist and it might be something you may want to try to because when you mediate the discussion comes out some of the stuff

39:49

that you're afraid to say or that you're holding back it just says some type of evolution right to allow people to come

39:55

to see what's really going on yeah and what I yeah I know 100 what I say is that um you know what mediation

40:02

control the control while you take control away from the court system the decision and especially I think what zoom

40:10

does and it's looking you know we're still evolving but I think um but

40:15

for maybe family cases because people are in their own space so I think to some degree and i'm not a psychologist

40:21

and I’m not going to profess to be one but I think it does bring down the tone because people feel they're not you know

40:29

you're not right there with that person that you have all that animosity and there's a fine line between lemonade but

40:35

um you're not right there so being in your own space I think to a certain degree what I have found through

40:42

the mediations the family mediations that it does bring the tone down it does I think it does help facilitate uh

40:50

resolution um and which is interesting uh another dynamic that zoom brings into the

40:57

conversation I agree 100 so strong advocate for it I’m glad you're doing it yeah and yeah

41:04

no absolutely and another wonderful thing about zoom is that if you can't tie the bow at the end

41:11

um that all I need to do is if the caucus can if kneading together with a lawyer

41:18

the mediations and mediators terms term of art uh but if

41:24

the they're still having that conversation and they still need to be per hap for me to be involved because I

41:30

just settled an employment case three months later after the mediation where this is the beautiful thing about zoom

41:36

is you just send out the link and I can just bring the lawyer and his client quickly do the

41:44

um and then just quickly do the you know the conversation the mediation and the

41:49

intervention and then uh hopefully get the case settled for the lawyers and the parties

41:55

and uh and end yeah so wonderful so keep that in mind

42:00

everybody because it is litigation is a in general fighting disputes resolution and general litigation is a

42:07

difficult um road to go down okay and so something you know it's better if

42:12

you can find you know more amicable ways to resolve issues and try to put both people's feet on the ground sometimes

42:18

that you can and sometimes it's not a that's not it's not a clean process something it's a little messy process but it can't in the

42:24

sense that people get angry and they say what they want but sometimes it cleans the air [Music]

42:34

I mean look it's the emotional impact it has on somebody in the court system

42:39

going in the rabbit hole and through the lens of the court judges and juries see things through different

42:46

lands right and it's all human nature like experience so nobody can control again can't you can't control what's

42:52

going to happen and in family cases especially you know a case that you could have settled

42:58

at mediation two years later after spending so much money uh to the point that sometimes even

43:05

lawyers withdraw uh that you end up probably what you would have gotten in mediation sometimes

43:10

even less so you really you know just thinking about that and that's what I try to do and emphasize that with

43:18

the with the with the people and mediation yes definitely

43:24

so something to look at and I think it's very worthwhile to uh look up

43:30

disable and Renee’s resolution which I love the name now and understand what it means

43:40

um so we want to thank you for joining us for this episode thank you for coming it's been wonderful thank you very much

43:53

[Laughter]

44:04

so we want to thank everyone also for tuning into the podcast and uh coming back to see us for episode six season

44:10

one we hope to see you for all our future podcasts uh also if you missed any of the podcasts and we have a lot of

44:15

interesting ones we've done in the past I think you'll be excited to see those as well please make sure you follow us on all

44:21

our social media accounts and you follow us on apple podcast also tick tock to

44:26

renew tick tock so that would be wonderful thank you everybody and we'll see you soon take care great success

44:42

you