{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.57,"endTime":2.76,"body":"When I think of the great"},{"startTime":0.57,"endTime":2.76,"body":"majestic predators in North"},{"startTime":2.76,"endTime":6.15,"body":"America, I think about wolves"},{"startTime":2.76,"endTime":6.15,"body":"and cougars. But what if I told"},{"startTime":6.15,"endTime":8.94,"body":"you that those predators are"},{"startTime":6.15,"endTime":8.94,"body":"susceptible to some of the same"},{"startTime":8.94,"endTime":11.79,"body":"parasites that infect the orange"},{"startTime":8.94,"endTime":11.79,"body":"tabby currently sleeping on your"},{"startTime":11.79,"endTime":15.21,"body":"laptop and demanding fancy feast"},{"startTime":11.79,"endTime":15.21,"body":"or Meow Mix or whatever it is"},{"startTime":15.21,"endTime":18.9,"body":"this week? You guessed it, we're"},{"startTime":15.21,"endTime":18.9,"body":"talking about Toxoplasma gondii."},{"startTime":18.9,"endTime":21.48,"body":"A the parasite that keeps"},{"startTime":18.9,"endTime":21.48,"body":"pregnant women from changing"},{"startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"litter boxes. But here's the"},{"startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"kicker. A recent study found"},{"startTime":24.72,"endTime":28.35,"body":"evidence that this parasite may"},{"startTime":24.72,"endTime":28.35,"body":"increase the odds of an infected"},{"startTime":28.35,"endTime":31.59,"body":"wolf becoming pack leader."},{"startTime":28.35,"endTime":31.59,"body":"Crazy, right? We have a really"},{"startTime":31.59,"endTime":33.6,"body":"interesting story coming up"},{"startTime":31.59,"endTime":33.6,"body":"next, so stay tuned."},{"startTime":43.62,"endTime":45.66,"body":"Welcome to the infectious"},{"startTime":43.62,"endTime":45.66,"body":"Science Podcast."},{"startTime":45.75,"endTime":49.56,"body":"This is not just another Science"},{"startTime":45.75,"endTime":49.56,"body":"Podcast Nope. Infectious science"},{"startTime":49.56,"endTime":52.02,"body":"is produced by a team from the"},{"startTime":49.56,"endTime":52.02,"body":"University of Texas Medical"},{"startTime":52.02,"endTime":53.61,"body":"Branch and the Galveston"},{"startTime":52.02,"endTime":53.61,"body":"national lab"},{"startTime":53.64,"endTime":56.91,"body":"where we study some of the most"},{"startTime":53.64,"endTime":56.91,"body":"dangerous viruses on the planet."},{"startTime":57.12,"endTime":57.78,"body":"Our goal"},{"startTime":57.78,"endTime":60.75,"body":"is to inspire future scientists"},{"startTime":57.78,"endTime":60.75,"body":"towards a career in science with"},{"startTime":60.75,"endTime":64.53,"body":"a focus on one health, one"},{"startTime":60.75,"endTime":64.53,"body":"health one planet. That's right."},{"startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.08,"body":"One of the approaches public"},{"startTime":64.71,"endTime":67.08,"body":"health threats by examining the"},{"startTime":67.08,"endTime":69.72,"body":"connections between people,"},{"startTime":67.08,"endTime":69.72,"body":"plants, animals and the"},{"startTime":69.72,"endTime":70.92,"body":"environment. We all share"},{"startTime":71.249,"endTime":75.149,"body":"this show we'll explore how one"},{"startTime":71.249,"endTime":75.149,"body":"health is your health. So sit"},{"startTime":75.149,"endTime":76.229,"body":"back and learn something"},{"startTime":76.26,"endTime":79.38,"body":"infectious science where"},{"startTime":76.26,"endTime":79.38,"body":"enthusiasm for science is"},{"startTime":79.38,"endTime":89.22,"body":"contagious. Hello, listener. Hi,"},{"startTime":79.38,"endTime":89.22,"body":"everyone. Welcome back to"},{"startTime":89.22,"endTime":93.06,"body":"another episode of infectious"},{"startTime":89.22,"endTime":93.06,"body":"science podcast here and UTMB,"},{"startTime":93.06,"endTime":96.63,"body":"the galvus National Lab. I'm"},{"startTime":93.06,"endTime":96.63,"body":"seated here with my friends and"},{"startTime":96.63,"endTime":100.35,"body":"colleagues, Dr. Daniel Sweetnam,"},{"startTime":96.63,"endTime":100.35,"body":"Dr. Dennis benta, and Matt"},{"startTime":100.35,"endTime":103.74,"body":"Dasho. And we're doing something"},{"startTime":100.35,"endTime":103.74,"body":"a little different today. And we"},{"startTime":103.74,"endTime":106.68,"body":"need to know if it works. So if"},{"startTime":103.74,"endTime":106.68,"body":"you like what we're doing today,"},{"startTime":106.8,"endTime":109.44,"body":"we want you to tell us in the"},{"startTime":106.8,"endTime":109.44,"body":"show notes, leave a comment, hit"},{"startTime":109.44,"endTime":112.95,"body":"the like button, whatever it is,"},{"startTime":109.44,"endTime":112.95,"body":"give us a follow tell a friend."},{"startTime":113.13,"endTime":115.59,"body":"And we're going to link to this"},{"startTime":113.13,"endTime":115.59,"body":"paper in the show notes. What"},{"startTime":115.59,"endTime":118.17,"body":"we're doing today is we're"},{"startTime":115.59,"endTime":118.17,"body":"talking about a paper,"},{"startTime":118.32,"endTime":120.96,"body":"a little bit of a journal club."},{"startTime":118.32,"endTime":120.96,"body":"Yeah, journal club."},{"startTime":122.04,"endTime":124.38,"body":"And we're all going to talk"},{"startTime":122.04,"endTime":124.38,"body":"about this paper. Danielle, you"},{"startTime":124.38,"endTime":128.07,"body":"brought this paper, it was so"},{"startTime":124.38,"endTime":128.07,"body":"cool to read. I've never read"},{"startTime":128.07,"endTime":131.37,"body":"about this topic before. So it"},{"startTime":128.07,"endTime":131.37,"body":"was really interesting for me to"},{"startTime":131.4,"endTime":133.65,"body":"delve into it. Tell us what this"},{"startTime":131.4,"endTime":133.65,"body":"paper is."},{"startTime":133.95,"endTime":136.56,"body":"So this paper is a really"},{"startTime":133.95,"endTime":136.56,"body":"exciting paper and it was"},{"startTime":136.56,"endTime":139.92,"body":"blowing up all over science"},{"startTime":136.56,"endTime":139.92,"body":"Twitter a few months ago when it"},{"startTime":139.92,"endTime":142.68,"body":"came out. And it was published"},{"startTime":139.92,"endTime":142.68,"body":"in Nature, which is a really"},{"startTime":142.68,"endTime":145.95,"body":"high impact journal Nature"},{"startTime":142.68,"endTime":145.95,"body":"Communications. And it's about a"},{"startTime":145.95,"endTime":149.61,"body":"parasite that you may have heard"},{"startTime":145.95,"endTime":149.61,"body":"of, it's texel plasm, gone di"},{"startTime":149.85,"endTime":153.12,"body":"and this parasite. They're"},{"startTime":149.85,"endTime":153.12,"body":"looking at it in cougars and"},{"startTime":153.12,"endTime":156.45,"body":"wolves and discovering that it"},{"startTime":153.12,"endTime":156.45,"body":"might be altering the behavior"},{"startTime":156.48,"endTime":160.38,"body":"of wolves. And even altering"},{"startTime":156.48,"endTime":160.38,"body":"pack dynamics. Even if the"},{"startTime":160.38,"endTime":163.11,"body":"parasite infects just a single"},{"startTime":160.38,"endTime":163.11,"body":"Wolf, it can change that"},{"startTime":163.11,"endTime":166.11,"body":"dynamics of the entire pack. And"},{"startTime":163.11,"endTime":166.11,"body":"I just think that's so exciting"},{"startTime":166.11,"endTime":169.35,"body":"that something so small can have"},{"startTime":166.11,"endTime":169.35,"body":"such an incredible impact. And"},{"startTime":169.35,"endTime":173.13,"body":"that's kind of to me, just like"},{"startTime":169.35,"endTime":173.13,"body":"the epitome of why microbiology"},{"startTime":173.13,"endTime":173.85,"body":"is so cool."},{"startTime":174.03,"endTime":178.05,"body":"Yeah, this is super cool. So I"},{"startTime":174.03,"endTime":178.05,"body":"did see this paper on Twitter as"},{"startTime":178.05,"endTime":182.22,"body":"well. But why did you really"},{"startTime":178.05,"endTime":182.22,"body":"like picot? And and like, what"},{"startTime":182.25,"endTime":186.18,"body":"captured your interest? And why"},{"startTime":182.25,"endTime":186.18,"body":"did you select this paper?"},{"startTime":186.45,"endTime":190.74,"body":"Well, most of what we know about"},{"startTime":186.45,"endTime":190.74,"body":"Toxoplasma gondii. I think most"},{"startTime":190.74,"endTime":195.63,"body":"of it we know about in prey"},{"startTime":190.74,"endTime":195.63,"body":"predator dynamics, and we'll"},{"startTime":195.63,"endTime":198.12,"body":"talk about that a little bit"},{"startTime":195.63,"endTime":198.12,"body":"later. And Yellowstone National"},{"startTime":198.12,"endTime":200.88,"body":"Park is this really interesting"},{"startTime":198.12,"endTime":200.88,"body":"area. And that's where the study"},{"startTime":200.88,"endTime":204.57,"body":"is being done, where wolves and"},{"startTime":200.88,"endTime":204.57,"body":"cougars, their territory is kind"},{"startTime":204.57,"endTime":208.68,"body":"of overlapping. And so we have"},{"startTime":204.57,"endTime":208.68,"body":"this really exciting multi"},{"startTime":208.77,"endTime":213.18,"body":"predator multi carnivores system"},{"startTime":208.77,"endTime":213.18,"body":"that we don't normally see that"},{"startTime":213.18,"endTime":216.63,"body":"wolves and cougars are usually,"},{"startTime":213.18,"endTime":216.63,"body":"even though they have the same"},{"startTime":216.66,"endTime":219.84,"body":"prey are usually kind of"},{"startTime":216.66,"endTime":219.84,"body":"selecting to be separate. So"},{"startTime":219.84,"endTime":223.5,"body":"this really interesting area is"},{"startTime":219.84,"endTime":223.5,"body":"allowing for this interesting"},{"startTime":223.53,"endTime":226.89,"body":"spillover of a pathogen, which I"},{"startTime":223.53,"endTime":226.89,"body":"just think is just this really"},{"startTime":226.89,"endTime":229.5,"body":"interesting area and I will kind"},{"startTime":226.89,"endTime":229.5,"body":"of want to go to Yellowstone"},{"startTime":229.5,"endTime":232.44,"body":"National Park. So it's a nice"},{"startTime":229.5,"endTime":232.44,"body":"place to think about."},{"startTime":233.52,"endTime":236.91,"body":"Yeah, I've never been either. So"},{"startTime":233.52,"endTime":236.91,"body":"listener if you're interested in"},{"startTime":236.91,"endTime":240.51,"body":"sponsoring a an infectious"},{"startTime":236.91,"endTime":240.51,"body":"science trip out to Yellowstone,"},{"startTime":240.69,"endTime":248.07,"body":"we know take Venmo Cash App,"},{"startTime":240.69,"endTime":248.07,"body":"Zell. So Dennis, you're the vet"},{"startTime":248.1,"endTime":251.25,"body":"tell us about toxic so I only"},{"startTime":248.1,"endTime":251.25,"body":"know about it and humans, right,"},{"startTime":251.25,"endTime":253.8,"body":"we learn about and I've taken"},{"startTime":251.25,"endTime":253.8,"body":"care of folks who've been"},{"startTime":253.8,"endTime":257.04,"body":"infected with toxo mostly"},{"startTime":253.8,"endTime":257.04,"body":"immunocompromised people, people"},{"startTime":257.04,"endTime":260.46,"body":"with HIV AIDS usually advanced,"},{"startTime":257.04,"endTime":260.46,"body":"the HIV they're"},{"startTime":260.46,"endTime":263.25,"body":"immunosuppressed. They have low"},{"startTime":260.46,"endTime":263.25,"body":"immune systems, they can't fight"},{"startTime":263.25,"endTime":266.64,"body":"off viruses and bacteria like"},{"startTime":263.25,"endTime":266.64,"body":"someone who's got all of their"},{"startTime":266.64,"endTime":269.97,"body":"white cells and then we also"},{"startTime":266.64,"endTime":269.97,"body":"hear about it in pregnancy. You"},{"startTime":269.97,"endTime":272.19,"body":"know, those don't clean the cat"},{"startTime":269.97,"endTime":272.19,"body":"box, you know if you're"},{"startTime":272.19,"endTime":275.07,"body":"pregnant, because you may"},{"startTime":272.19,"endTime":275.07,"body":"aerosolized the feces and"},{"startTime":275.07,"endTime":278.79,"body":"inhaled it or be exposed to it."},{"startTime":275.07,"endTime":278.79,"body":"What is this pathogen and what"},{"startTime":278.79,"endTime":280.05,"body":"does it look like in animals?"},{"startTime":280.32,"endTime":284.22,"body":"You know, in vet school, you've"},{"startTime":280.32,"endTime":284.22,"body":"Toxoplasma gondii is obviously a"},{"startTime":284.22,"endTime":286.86,"body":"staple that you have to learn"},{"startTime":284.22,"endTime":286.86,"body":"about, but not so much because"},{"startTime":286.86,"endTime":290.04,"body":"it causes you know, devastating"},{"startTime":286.86,"endTime":290.04,"body":"disease and animals but"},{"startTime":290.04,"endTime":292.35,"body":"obviously, because it's a"},{"startTime":290.04,"endTime":292.35,"body":"zoonotic disease and can be"},{"startTime":292.35,"endTime":296.52,"body":"transmitted to humans, but we do"},{"startTime":292.35,"endTime":296.52,"body":"learn about it. Obviously, cats"},{"startTime":296.52,"endTime":300.0,"body":"being the main host and know a"},{"startTime":296.52,"endTime":300.0,"body":"lot of Veterinary Medicine."},{"startTime":300.0,"endTime":303.93,"body":"focuses on domestic animals on"},{"startTime":300.0,"endTime":303.93,"body":"cats and dogs. But it's not just"},{"startTime":303.93,"endTime":308.01,"body":"house cats, right? No, that's"},{"startTime":303.93,"endTime":308.01,"body":"That's correct. Toxoplasmosis is"},{"startTime":308.01,"endTime":311.67,"body":"a disease cause you know, as we"},{"startTime":308.01,"endTime":311.67,"body":"talked Toxoplasma gondii i and"},{"startTime":311.67,"endTime":316.14,"body":"it theoretically can infect any"},{"startTime":311.67,"endTime":316.14,"body":"or many warm blooded animals,"},{"startTime":316.35,"endTime":321.39,"body":"including pets, livestock birds,"},{"startTime":316.35,"endTime":321.39,"body":"and obviously people so I think"},{"startTime":321.39,"endTime":325.68,"body":"the reason why we focus on cat"},{"startTime":321.39,"endTime":325.68,"body":"so much domestic cats is because"},{"startTime":325.68,"endTime":329.67,"body":"they live in close close"},{"startTime":325.68,"endTime":329.67,"body":"proximity to us and a big one"},{"startTime":329.67,"endTime":333.48,"body":"health question humans and pets"},{"startTime":329.67,"endTime":333.48,"body":"and close proximity and, and"},{"startTime":333.48,"endTime":336.51,"body":"human infection can occur"},{"startTime":333.48,"endTime":336.51,"body":"through domestic cats. And I"},{"startTime":336.51,"endTime":339.96,"body":"think that's why this is part of"},{"startTime":336.51,"endTime":339.96,"body":"the education and why we learn"},{"startTime":339.96,"endTime":342.84,"body":"about this so much. And, you"},{"startTime":339.96,"endTime":342.84,"body":"know, typically most infected"},{"startTime":342.84,"endTime":346.56,"body":"adult cats, they appear healthy."},{"startTime":342.84,"endTime":346.56,"body":"However, some cats may develop"},{"startTime":346.56,"endTime":350.49,"body":"pneumonia, liver damage or some"},{"startTime":346.56,"endTime":350.49,"body":"other health problems, but in"},{"startTime":350.52,"endTime":353.97,"body":"most of the time, it's really"},{"startTime":350.52,"endTime":353.97,"body":"avert, there's no signs of"},{"startTime":353.97,"endTime":356.91,"body":"illness in cats, maybe if they"},{"startTime":353.97,"endTime":356.91,"body":"are infected, they are"},{"startTime":356.91,"endTime":361.26,"body":"lethargic, loss of appetite, but"},{"startTime":356.91,"endTime":361.26,"body":"it's not really just a big deal"},{"startTime":361.26,"endTime":362.49,"body":"in vets medicine."},{"startTime":362.58,"endTime":367.44,"body":"So some people are some people"},{"startTime":362.58,"endTime":367.44,"body":"from cats being people, cat"},{"startTime":367.44,"endTime":370.68,"body":"owners. So some cats, that mean"},{"startTime":367.44,"endTime":370.68,"body":"do they manage? Some of them"},{"startTime":370.68,"endTime":372.57,"body":"don't have any symptoms at all"},{"startTime":370.68,"endTime":372.57,"body":"right? I mean, they"},{"startTime":372.57,"endTime":375.81,"body":"can most of them. Yeah, most of"},{"startTime":372.57,"endTime":375.81,"body":"them. And if you have an"},{"startTime":375.81,"endTime":380.79,"body":"immunocompromised cat or a"},{"startTime":375.81,"endTime":380.79,"body":"kitten, for example, feline HIV,"},{"startTime":380.79,"endTime":384.72,"body":"right F IV that can"},{"startTime":380.79,"endTime":384.72,"body":"immunosuppressed, the cat, then"},{"startTime":384.75,"endTime":388.62,"body":"the parasitic infection has no"},{"startTime":384.75,"endTime":388.62,"body":"control or is not controlled,"},{"startTime":388.62,"endTime":391.77,"body":"and then we'll just go rampid in"},{"startTime":388.62,"endTime":391.77,"body":"the cat and then the cat will"},{"startTime":391.77,"endTime":392.37,"body":"get sick."},{"startTime":392.46,"endTime":396.45,"body":"Okay, so I'm hearing why it's"},{"startTime":392.46,"endTime":396.45,"body":"important for cats certainly"},{"startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.39,"body":"know why it's important for"},{"startTime":396.45,"endTime":399.39,"body":"humans. So Daniel, when you were"},{"startTime":399.39,"endTime":402.21,"body":"reading this stuff, what"},{"startTime":399.39,"endTime":402.21,"body":"prompted these guys to do this"},{"startTime":402.21,"endTime":404.82,"body":"study, what was the main problem"},{"startTime":402.21,"endTime":404.82,"body":"they were trying to understand."},{"startTime":404.85,"endTime":405.03,"body":"So"},{"startTime":405.03,"endTime":407.13,"body":"let's back up a minute, because"},{"startTime":405.03,"endTime":407.13,"body":"there's a couple of things I"},{"startTime":407.13,"endTime":410.61,"body":"really want to emphasize. Okay,"},{"startTime":407.13,"endTime":410.61,"body":"emphasize emphasize this, this"},{"startTime":410.61,"endTime":414.33,"body":"is a protozoan, just a single"},{"startTime":410.61,"endTime":414.33,"body":"cellular parasite. And like"},{"startTime":414.33,"endTime":418.35,"body":"Dennis said, It infects warm"},{"startTime":414.33,"endTime":418.35,"body":"blooded animals in general, the"},{"startTime":418.35,"endTime":423.33,"body":"real big important key here is"},{"startTime":418.35,"endTime":423.33,"body":"it needs some type of feline to"},{"startTime":423.33,"endTime":426.42,"body":"replicate. This is really,"},{"startTime":423.33,"endTime":426.42,"body":"really critical part of its"},{"startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.56,"body":"lifecycle, the direct host is"},{"startTime":426.42,"endTime":430.56,"body":"some kind of Feline, everything"},{"startTime":430.56,"endTime":434.61,"body":"else is like an intermediate"},{"startTime":430.56,"endTime":434.61,"body":"host. And when it spread from an"},{"startTime":434.61,"endTime":437.85,"body":"animal that's not a cat, it"},{"startTime":434.61,"endTime":437.85,"body":"escapes the intestinal lining,"},{"startTime":437.85,"endTime":441.18,"body":"and it can form me cysts, and"},{"startTime":437.85,"endTime":441.18,"body":"muscle and brain tissue. And"},{"startTime":441.21,"endTime":444.66,"body":"there's a lot of evidence that"},{"startTime":441.21,"endTime":444.66,"body":"it could affect behavior. Now,"},{"startTime":444.69,"endTime":448.92,"body":"the way it's spread is by"},{"startTime":444.69,"endTime":448.92,"body":"basically three ways you can be"},{"startTime":448.92,"endTime":453.57,"body":"spread by consuming the parasite"},{"startTime":448.92,"endTime":453.57,"body":"eggs, but that can only come"},{"startTime":453.6,"endTime":458.16,"body":"from one of the cats, and it can"},{"startTime":453.6,"endTime":458.16,"body":"be through eating the cat, or it"},{"startTime":458.16,"endTime":463.11,"body":"can be through coming in contact"},{"startTime":458.16,"endTime":463.11,"body":"with feces of the cat or the"},{"startTime":463.11,"endTime":466.35,"body":"scat or something that's been"},{"startTime":463.11,"endTime":466.35,"body":"contaminated with it. The other"},{"startTime":466.35,"endTime":470.13,"body":"way you can contract it is if"},{"startTime":466.35,"endTime":470.13,"body":"you eat infected meat, anything"},{"startTime":470.13,"endTime":472.8,"body":"that's been infected with the"},{"startTime":470.13,"endTime":472.8,"body":"parasite. So it can be an"},{"startTime":472.8,"endTime":476.97,"body":"infected cat or an infected dog"},{"startTime":472.8,"endTime":476.97,"body":"or cow or anything like that."},{"startTime":477.24,"endTime":479.31,"body":"But the really important thing"},{"startTime":477.24,"endTime":479.31,"body":"that you have to remember for"},{"startTime":479.31,"endTime":482.82,"body":"the rest of the story is it's"},{"startTime":479.31,"endTime":482.82,"body":"only replicating in cats, or"},{"startTime":482.82,"endTime":485.16,"body":"cougars and our story. And so"},{"startTime":485.19,"endTime":487.68,"body":"you use a couple terms there. I"},{"startTime":485.19,"endTime":487.68,"body":"just want to like clarify. So"},{"startTime":487.68,"endTime":491.82,"body":"you said direct host and an"},{"startTime":487.68,"endTime":491.82,"body":"intermediate host right? So can"},{"startTime":491.82,"endTime":494.22,"body":"you kind of flesh those out a"},{"startTime":491.82,"endTime":494.22,"body":"little bit? Because I in my"},{"startTime":494.22,"endTime":496.5,"body":"head, I was actually reversing"},{"startTime":494.22,"endTime":496.5,"body":"them. I was like, Oh, the"},{"startTime":496.5,"endTime":498.6,"body":"intermediate host must be the"},{"startTime":496.5,"endTime":498.6,"body":"one where it's replicating. And"},{"startTime":498.6,"endTime":501.51,"body":"then the direct one is where"},{"startTime":498.6,"endTime":501.51,"body":"it's reversed,"},{"startTime":501.54,"endTime":505.29,"body":"right? Yeah. So the direct host"},{"startTime":501.54,"endTime":505.29,"body":"is where it's replicating. And"},{"startTime":505.29,"endTime":509.79,"body":"that's cats. Everything else is"},{"startTime":505.29,"endTime":509.79,"body":"an intermediate host, you can"},{"startTime":509.82,"endTime":512.58,"body":"get it from eating the"},{"startTime":509.82,"endTime":512.58,"body":"intermediate host. But you're"},{"startTime":512.58,"endTime":517.23,"body":"not going to get it from coming"},{"startTime":512.58,"endTime":517.23,"body":"into contact with the feces of"},{"startTime":517.26,"endTime":517.86,"body":"the host."},{"startTime":518.039,"endTime":520.229,"body":"So are you saying in the"},{"startTime":518.039,"endTime":520.229,"body":"intermediate host says no"},{"startTime":520.229,"endTime":524.429,"body":"replication in the none at all,"},{"startTime":520.229,"endTime":524.429,"body":"no. amplification of the"},{"startTime":524.429,"endTime":526.079,"body":"parasite in the intestine?"},{"startTime":526.2,"endTime":530.1,"body":"No, it just kind of travels from"},{"startTime":526.2,"endTime":530.1,"body":"the intestine to kind of muscle"},{"startTime":530.1,"endTime":532.95,"body":"or brain tissue and forms"},{"startTime":530.1,"endTime":532.95,"body":"assists to protect itself and it"},{"startTime":532.95,"endTime":535.53,"body":"goes chronic, it kind of just"},{"startTime":532.95,"endTime":535.53,"body":"hangs out and doesn't do"},{"startTime":535.53,"endTime":538.08,"body":"anything unless you're"},{"startTime":535.53,"endTime":538.08,"body":"immunocompromised. And then it"},{"startTime":538.08,"endTime":540.96,"body":"can start to cause some kind of"},{"startTime":538.08,"endTime":540.96,"body":"inflammation in some disease,"},{"startTime":541.14,"endTime":544.53,"body":"but it will just hang out"},{"startTime":541.14,"endTime":544.53,"body":"forever indefinitely, but not"},{"startTime":544.53,"endTime":545.1,"body":"replicate."},{"startTime":545.429,"endTime":548.459,"body":"And I'm against scare tactics."},{"startTime":545.429,"endTime":548.459,"body":"I'm against just anybody knows"},{"startTime":548.459,"endTime":551.309,"body":"me. I don't like people would be"},{"startTime":548.459,"endTime":551.309,"body":"scared. But the numbers that"},{"startTime":551.309,"endTime":554.579,"body":"we're seeing were pretty crazy."},{"startTime":551.309,"endTime":554.579,"body":"Like 2 billion people in the"},{"startTime":554.579,"endTime":557.039,"body":"world. Probably infected. Yeah."},{"startTime":557.039,"endTime":559.139,"body":"Okay. That's a lot a lot. Right."},{"startTime":557.039,"endTime":559.139,"body":"I"},{"startTime":559.14,"endTime":561.9,"body":"don't know the exact number. But"},{"startTime":559.14,"endTime":561.9,"body":"it's a very high prevalence in"},{"startTime":561.9,"endTime":564.66,"body":"the population, which is"},{"startTime":561.9,"endTime":564.66,"body":"something we don't always think"},{"startTime":564.66,"endTime":565.14,"body":"about. Right?"},{"startTime":565.14,"endTime":568.32,"body":"Yeah, well, probably because"},{"startTime":565.14,"endTime":568.32,"body":"it's not causing any disease in"},{"startTime":568.35,"endTime":570.93,"body":"most of those people. And in"},{"startTime":568.35,"endTime":570.93,"body":"most of those animals that's not"},{"startTime":570.93,"endTime":572.13,"body":"causing any disease. Yeah, I"},{"startTime":572.13,"endTime":575.01,"body":"think this is something that the"},{"startTime":572.13,"endTime":575.01,"body":"major take home messages I would"},{"startTime":575.01,"endTime":579.96,"body":"say is that a lot of people get"},{"startTime":575.01,"endTime":579.96,"body":"exposed to toxoplasma and they"},{"startTime":579.96,"endTime":583.56,"body":"will deal with the infection,"},{"startTime":579.96,"endTime":583.56,"body":"but they will just seclude the"},{"startTime":583.56,"endTime":588.75,"body":"parasite and there's no clinical"},{"startTime":583.56,"endTime":588.75,"body":"signs as no threat to help in"},{"startTime":588.75,"endTime":592.8,"body":"any way. So that's the most"},{"startTime":588.75,"endTime":592.8,"body":"common outcome of an infection"},{"startTime":593.07,"endTime":595.98,"body":"or an exposure with toxoplasma."},{"startTime":593.07,"endTime":595.98,"body":"I think that's kind of like"},{"startTime":595.98,"endTime":598.08,"body":"really something we need to"},{"startTime":595.98,"endTime":598.08,"body":"emphasize."},{"startTime":598.2,"endTime":601.59,"body":"Yeah. Okay. So that's kind of"},{"startTime":598.2,"endTime":601.59,"body":"The basics of the parasite. But"},{"startTime":601.59,"endTime":605.46,"body":"what's really, really cool is"},{"startTime":601.59,"endTime":605.46,"body":"this kind of idea that this"},{"startTime":605.46,"endTime":610.29,"body":"little micro unicellular"},{"startTime":605.46,"endTime":610.29,"body":"organism is there's a lot of"},{"startTime":610.29,"endTime":613.29,"body":"evidence that it can change"},{"startTime":610.29,"endTime":613.29,"body":"behavior, even in these hosts"},{"startTime":613.29,"endTime":615.48,"body":"where it's not doing anything"},{"startTime":613.29,"endTime":615.48,"body":"else, and it's just hanging out."},{"startTime":615.9,"endTime":621.09,"body":"So, for example, in rodents, and"},{"startTime":615.9,"endTime":621.09,"body":"monkeys, and hyenas, it all"},{"startTime":621.09,"endTime":625.86,"body":"really makes them more prone to"},{"startTime":621.09,"endTime":625.86,"body":"do risky things. In rodents, it"},{"startTime":625.89,"endTime":629.04,"body":"makes rodents less adverse to"},{"startTime":625.89,"endTime":629.04,"body":"house cat urine, and in monkeys"},{"startTime":629.04,"endTime":631.89,"body":"that makes them less averse to"},{"startTime":629.04,"endTime":631.89,"body":"leopard urine. And in hyenas"},{"startTime":631.89,"endTime":636.27,"body":"specifically, it makes them a"},{"startTime":631.89,"endTime":636.27,"body":"lot more bold around lions,"},{"startTime":636.27,"endTime":638.7,"body":"right? These are all really"},{"startTime":636.27,"endTime":638.7,"body":"dangerous things, this increases"},{"startTime":638.7,"endTime":641.28,"body":"the likelihood that these"},{"startTime":638.7,"endTime":641.28,"body":"animals that are infected are"},{"startTime":641.28,"endTime":646.05,"body":"going to be around a wild cat"},{"startTime":641.28,"endTime":646.05,"body":"that can eat them, and then that"},{"startTime":646.05,"endTime":649.62,"body":"cat would become infected. So"},{"startTime":646.05,"endTime":649.62,"body":"this parasite makes the animals"},{"startTime":649.62,"endTime":654.09,"body":"bolder, these prey animals"},{"startTime":649.62,"endTime":654.09,"body":"Boulder, puts them at risk, and"},{"startTime":654.12,"endTime":656.49,"body":"put some around these cat"},{"startTime":654.12,"endTime":656.49,"body":"predators and then kind of"},{"startTime":656.49,"endTime":659.1,"body":"perpetuates itself. And that"},{"startTime":656.49,"endTime":659.1,"body":"kind of interesting kind of"},{"startTime":659.1,"endTime":659.94,"body":"subversive style"},{"startTime":659.97,"endTime":662.7,"body":"almost sounds a little bit like"},{"startTime":659.97,"endTime":662.7,"body":"rabies, right? Like where you"},{"startTime":662.7,"endTime":666.48,"body":"have herbivores that all of a"},{"startTime":662.7,"endTime":666.48,"body":"sudden become more docile when"},{"startTime":666.48,"endTime":670.26,"body":"they infect an easier prey for"},{"startTime":666.48,"endTime":670.26,"body":"predators. Correct. Do you would"},{"startTime":670.26,"endTime":671.85,"body":"you agree? Yeah, for sure."},{"startTime":672.0,"endTime":674.82,"body":"Yeah, it was so interesting,"},{"startTime":672.0,"endTime":674.82,"body":"Danielle, because you sent me"},{"startTime":674.82,"endTime":677.97,"body":"down a rabbit hole when you sent"},{"startTime":674.82,"endTime":677.97,"body":"this paper because I started"},{"startTime":677.97,"endTime":681.75,"body":"thinking, oh, man, like, I only"},{"startTime":677.97,"endTime":681.75,"body":"know the clinical part right"},{"startTime":681.75,"endTime":685.08,"body":"out, I know, the dose of"},{"startTime":681.75,"endTime":685.08,"body":"antibiotic you're supposed to"},{"startTime":685.08,"endTime":687.57,"body":"give I know when you're supposed"},{"startTime":685.08,"endTime":687.57,"body":"to, you know, the guidelines for"},{"startTime":687.57,"endTime":690.21,"body":"HIV say you're supposed to"},{"startTime":687.57,"endTime":690.21,"body":"screen for talkshoe. And when"},{"startTime":690.21,"endTime":692.31,"body":"you're supposed to treat and so"},{"startTime":690.21,"endTime":692.31,"body":"I know those things, but I"},{"startTime":692.31,"endTime":696.57,"body":"didn't know anything else about"},{"startTime":692.31,"endTime":696.57,"body":"what toxic do to behavior. And"},{"startTime":696.57,"endTime":699.78,"body":"as I started traveling down the"},{"startTime":696.57,"endTime":699.78,"body":"rabbit hole, into the"},{"startTime":699.78,"endTime":703.86,"body":"literature, I found several"},{"startTime":699.78,"endTime":703.86,"body":"papers, right in humans"},{"startTime":703.86,"endTime":708.18,"body":"describing that actually"},{"startTime":703.86,"endTime":708.18,"body":"toxoplasma infection is"},{"startTime":708.18,"endTime":712.23,"body":"associated with things like"},{"startTime":708.18,"endTime":712.23,"body":"schizophrenia, there was a paper"},{"startTime":712.5,"endTime":717.39,"body":"that described that people who"},{"startTime":712.5,"endTime":717.39,"body":"consume alcohol were more likely"},{"startTime":717.42,"endTime":721.26,"body":"to have behavioral effects, if"},{"startTime":717.42,"endTime":721.26,"body":"they were toxic positive, found"},{"startTime":721.26,"endTime":723.87,"body":"one paper that was done on"},{"startTime":721.26,"endTime":723.87,"body":"university campuses, it was kind"},{"startTime":723.87,"endTime":727.83,"body":"of a funky study design, but"},{"startTime":723.87,"endTime":727.83,"body":"they looked at college students"},{"startTime":727.83,"endTime":732.33,"body":"and found that people who were"},{"startTime":727.83,"endTime":732.33,"body":"business majors were 1.4 times"},{"startTime":732.36,"endTime":735.96,"body":"more likely to be toxo IgG."},{"startTime":732.36,"endTime":735.96,"body":"Positive. So."},{"startTime":736.799,"endTime":739.049,"body":"So compared to what biology"},{"startTime":736.799,"endTime":739.049,"body":"majors, right."},{"startTime":740.759,"endTime":743.219,"body":"So I don't know what that says"},{"startTime":740.759,"endTime":743.219,"body":"about all of us. I was a music"},{"startTime":743.219,"endTime":743.909,"body":"major. So"},{"startTime":744.48,"endTime":748.35,"body":"now I think all these papers are"},{"startTime":744.48,"endTime":748.35,"body":"really interesting. And I think"},{"startTime":748.35,"endTime":752.16,"body":"this has been a theme for a long"},{"startTime":748.35,"endTime":752.16,"body":"time, what toxoplasma can do to"},{"startTime":752.16,"endTime":754.92,"body":"behavioral changes. And it's not"},{"startTime":752.16,"endTime":754.92,"body":"a new theme, right? I mean, this"},{"startTime":754.92,"endTime":757.62,"body":"we know this from the animal"},{"startTime":754.92,"endTime":757.62,"body":"kingdom, how parasites can"},{"startTime":757.62,"endTime":763.44,"body":"modify, and behavior and so on."},{"startTime":757.62,"endTime":763.44,"body":"I'm still skeptical, though,"},{"startTime":763.47,"endTime":768.18,"body":"what is the likelihood of 1.4"},{"startTime":763.47,"endTime":768.18,"body":"times really mean?"},{"startTime":768.299,"endTime":771.359,"body":"Right, the paper I saw is that"},{"startTime":768.299,"endTime":771.359,"body":"it looks like people that have a"},{"startTime":771.359,"endTime":775.169,"body":"chronic infection with toxo have"},{"startTime":771.359,"endTime":775.169,"body":"increased testosterone and"},{"startTime":775.169,"endTime":778.919,"body":"dopamine. So there's an idea"},{"startTime":775.169,"endTime":778.919,"body":"that maybe with the increase of"},{"startTime":778.919,"endTime":781.499,"body":"those two hormones that that"},{"startTime":778.919,"endTime":781.499,"body":"might lead to risky behavior."},{"startTime":781.679,"endTime":783.929,"body":"But what does risky behavior"},{"startTime":781.679,"endTime":783.929,"body":"look like? There's a lot of"},{"startTime":783.929,"endTime":786.779,"body":"types of risky behavior. So it"},{"startTime":783.929,"endTime":786.779,"body":"might be something that's just"},{"startTime":786.839,"endTime":788.789,"body":"if there's a behavioral change"},{"startTime":786.839,"endTime":788.789,"body":"going on in the human"},{"startTime":788.789,"endTime":792.749,"body":"population, it might be really"},{"startTime":788.789,"endTime":792.749,"body":"hard to quantify, because risky"},{"startTime":792.749,"endTime":795.659,"body":"is super subjective, right. And"},{"startTime":792.749,"endTime":795.659,"body":"it's easy. When we talk about"},{"startTime":795.659,"endTime":799.109,"body":"the paper they define for risky"},{"startTime":795.659,"endTime":799.109,"body":"behaviors that they're going to"},{"startTime":799.109,"endTime":799.349,"body":"look"},{"startTime":799.35,"endTime":806.25,"body":"at. Yeah, but I think also more"},{"startTime":799.35,"endTime":806.25,"body":"like the biostatistics like 1.4%"},{"startTime":806.55,"endTime":810.54,"body":"times more likely, is this very"},{"startTime":806.55,"endTime":810.54,"body":"high, or"},{"startTime":810.539,"endTime":813.509,"body":"it's just hard to do prospective"},{"startTime":810.539,"endTime":813.509,"body":"studies. We can't like infect"},{"startTime":813.509,"endTime":814.589,"body":"people intentionally."},{"startTime":816.0,"endTime":818.25,"body":"In fact, freshmen, and then see"},{"startTime":816.0,"endTime":818.25,"body":"what major"},{"startTime":819.059,"endTime":822.629,"body":"letters from iOS x community,"},{"startTime":819.059,"endTime":822.629,"body":"yeah, on this, we're not"},{"startTime":822.629,"endTime":826.229,"body":"suggesting this, please don't do"},{"startTime":822.629,"endTime":826.229,"body":"that. But it was interesting to"},{"startTime":826.229,"endTime":829.349,"body":"me to see that there were these"},{"startTime":826.229,"endTime":829.349,"body":"at least correlative studies in"},{"startTime":829.349,"endTime":832.049,"body":"the human literature saying,"},{"startTime":829.349,"endTime":832.049,"body":"well, actually suicidal"},{"startTime":832.049,"endTime":835.829,"body":"behavior, schizophrenia, which"},{"startTime":832.049,"endTime":835.829,"body":"is heavily dependent on"},{"startTime":835.829,"endTime":839.339,"body":"dopamine. So these were altered"},{"startTime":835.829,"endTime":839.339,"body":"by the presence of this"},{"startTime":839.339,"endTime":843.329,"body":"parasite, or at least have"},{"startTime":839.339,"endTime":843.329,"body":"antibodies to this parasite. And"},{"startTime":843.329,"endTime":847.649,"body":"so very, very, very interesting"},{"startTime":843.329,"endTime":847.649,"body":"that it could potentially have"},{"startTime":847.649,"endTime":848.099,"body":"some"},{"startTime":848.37,"endTime":851.97,"body":"nose to humans. Maybe in a few"},{"startTime":848.37,"endTime":851.97,"body":"years, when we talk about mental"},{"startTime":851.97,"endTime":854.97,"body":"health, we'll be looking at"},{"startTime":851.97,"endTime":854.97,"body":"infectious diseases a little bit"},{"startTime":854.97,"endTime":857.01,"body":"more closely and associated with"},{"startTime":854.97,"endTime":857.01,"body":"that, but yeah,"},{"startTime":857.699,"endTime":859.709,"body":"I know a lot of infectious"},{"startTime":857.699,"endTime":859.709,"body":"disease doctors that would be"},{"startTime":859.709,"endTime":862.739,"body":"very pleased to know they"},{"startTime":859.709,"endTime":862.739,"body":"they've their their field is so"},{"startTime":862.739,"endTime":866.009,"body":"much so relevant in so many"},{"startTime":862.739,"endTime":866.009,"body":"ways. Yeah. Infectious disease"},{"startTime":866.009,"endTime":868.319,"body":"and cancer, infectious disease"},{"startTime":866.009,"endTime":868.319,"body":"and hypertension, infectious"},{"startTime":868.319,"endTime":870.659,"body":"diseases and heart disease, you"},{"startTime":868.319,"endTime":870.659,"body":"know, infectious disease and"},{"startTime":870.659,"endTime":874.619,"body":"mental health. We know from"},{"startTime":870.659,"endTime":874.619,"body":"COVID-19 that people who are"},{"startTime":874.619,"endTime":877.769,"body":"dealing with post acute COVID"},{"startTime":874.619,"endTime":877.769,"body":"syndrome or long COVID are"},{"startTime":877.769,"endTime":880.649,"body":"dealing with a lot of mental"},{"startTime":877.769,"endTime":880.649,"body":"health side effects. Right."},{"startTime":880.98,"endTime":882.84,"body":"So what happened in the paper?"},{"startTime":883.169,"endTime":886.019,"body":"Let's talk about the paper"},{"startTime":883.169,"endTime":886.019,"body":"sorry, tangent go"},{"startTime":886.679,"endTime":888.089,"body":"over. Okay."},{"startTime":888.12,"endTime":891.27,"body":"So we talked about all these"},{"startTime":888.12,"endTime":891.27,"body":"other studies where toxin has"},{"startTime":891.27,"endTime":894.57,"body":"been studied, and I mentioned"},{"startTime":891.27,"endTime":894.57,"body":"before, most of the studies, at"},{"startTime":894.57,"endTime":897.39,"body":"least in the animal kingdom,"},{"startTime":894.57,"endTime":897.39,"body":"were looking at predator prey"},{"startTime":897.39,"endTime":901.35,"body":"dynamics, but that leaves a lot"},{"startTime":897.39,"endTime":901.35,"body":"of other kind of directions up"},{"startTime":901.35,"endTime":905.46,"body":"for questions. And in the"},{"startTime":901.35,"endTime":905.46,"body":"Yellowstone National Park wolves"},{"startTime":905.49,"endTime":910.02,"body":"were driven out of that area in"},{"startTime":905.49,"endTime":910.02,"body":"the early 1900s. And then were"},{"startTime":910.02,"endTime":914.7,"body":"reintroduced in 1995, like"},{"startTime":910.02,"endTime":914.7,"body":"between 1995 and 1997. And since"},{"startTime":914.7,"endTime":918.3,"body":"that time, there has been a ton"},{"startTime":914.7,"endTime":918.3,"body":"of effort to monitor their"},{"startTime":918.3,"endTime":920.49,"body":"health and behavior and"},{"startTime":918.3,"endTime":920.49,"body":"something really similar"},{"startTime":920.55,"endTime":923.49,"body":"happened with cougars, although"},{"startTime":920.55,"endTime":923.49,"body":"the the Cougars reintroduce"},{"startTime":923.49,"endTime":926.16,"body":"themselves, but still, there's"},{"startTime":923.49,"endTime":926.16,"body":"been a lot of monitoring"},{"startTime":926.219,"endTime":928.769,"body":"Cougars are gonna go where"},{"startTime":926.219,"endTime":928.769,"body":"they're gonna go. In this case,"},{"startTime":928.769,"endTime":933.059,"body":"don't try to tell a cougar. He"},{"startTime":928.769,"endTime":933.059,"body":"or she can go I"},{"startTime":933.059,"endTime":935.519,"body":"don't know why that's funny. I"},{"startTime":933.059,"endTime":935.519,"body":"feel like something about it is"},{"startTime":935.519,"endTime":940.499,"body":"funny. Okay, so yeah, these"},{"startTime":935.519,"endTime":940.499,"body":"animals that were excluded from"},{"startTime":940.499,"endTime":944.159,"body":"this area and reintroduced"},{"startTime":940.499,"endTime":944.159,"body":"Wilson Cougars both prey on"},{"startTime":944.159,"endTime":946.619,"body":"smaller animals, but they're"},{"startTime":944.159,"endTime":946.619,"body":"rarely found in the same"},{"startTime":946.619,"endTime":949.979,"body":"location, except for here at"},{"startTime":946.619,"endTime":949.979,"body":"Yellowstone National Park"},{"startTime":949.979,"endTime":953.939,"body":"specifically in the north. Most"},{"startTime":949.979,"endTime":953.939,"body":"of the Cougars kind of colonized"},{"startTime":953.939,"endTime":956.069,"body":"the the northern part of the"},{"startTime":953.939,"endTime":956.069,"body":"park where there's lower"},{"startTime":956.069,"endTime":961.019,"body":"elevation. But in the winter,"},{"startTime":956.069,"endTime":961.019,"body":"the bison and elk and mule deer"},{"startTime":961.049,"endTime":964.979,"body":"migrate down elevation into this"},{"startTime":961.049,"endTime":964.979,"body":"northern part of the park. And"},{"startTime":965.009,"endTime":968.609,"body":"when the prey animals migrate,"},{"startTime":965.009,"endTime":968.609,"body":"well, the wolves follow. So for"},{"startTime":968.609,"endTime":970.919,"body":"this period of time in the"},{"startTime":968.609,"endTime":970.919,"body":"winter, there's this really"},{"startTime":970.919,"endTime":974.879,"body":"solid overlap between the two."},{"startTime":970.919,"endTime":974.879,"body":"And the Cougars just so happened"},{"startTime":974.879,"endTime":978.119,"body":"to be carriers of toxo,"},{"startTime":974.879,"endTime":978.119,"body":"specifically, and it's actually"},{"startTime":978.119,"endTime":983.399,"body":"increasing quite a bit between"},{"startTime":978.119,"endTime":983.399,"body":"1989 and 2004. About 45% of the"},{"startTime":983.399,"endTime":986.309,"body":"Cougars in that area that were"},{"startTime":983.399,"endTime":986.309,"body":"surveyed were toxic, positive."},{"startTime":986.609,"endTime":991.619,"body":"And more recently, a survey that"},{"startTime":986.609,"endTime":991.619,"body":"was done in 2016 to 2020, that"},{"startTime":991.619,"endTime":995.399,"body":"number increased to 73% of the"},{"startTime":991.619,"endTime":995.399,"body":"Cougars in this area are toxic"},{"startTime":995.399,"endTime":998.849,"body":"positive. So boom, here's this"},{"startTime":995.399,"endTime":998.849,"body":"really great opportunity, the"},{"startTime":998.849,"endTime":1001.639,"body":"samples that have been"},{"startTime":998.849,"endTime":1001.639,"body":"collected. There's data about"},{"startTime":1001.639,"endTime":1005.269,"body":"behavior, there's data, there's"},{"startTime":1001.639,"endTime":1005.269,"body":"samples, serology samples that"},{"startTime":1005.269,"endTime":1009.169,"body":"have been collected, this is a"},{"startTime":1005.269,"endTime":1009.169,"body":"great area to really leverage 26"},{"startTime":1009.169,"endTime":1012.589,"body":"years worth of data and samples"},{"startTime":1009.169,"endTime":1012.589,"body":"that were collected to look at"},{"startTime":1012.589,"endTime":1013.699,"body":"this interaction."},{"startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1017.63,"body":"So Daniel, when you say a toxic"},{"startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1017.63,"body":"positive, so in technically"},{"startTime":1017.63,"endTime":1021.44,"body":"term, in technical terms, they"},{"startTime":1017.63,"endTime":1021.44,"body":"are seropositive, they have"},{"startTime":1021.44,"endTime":1026.3,"body":"antibodies against Yeah,"},{"startTime":1021.44,"endTime":1026.3,"body":"Toxoplasma gondii. I do you"},{"startTime":1026.3,"endTime":1030.5,"body":"know, is the the sero positivity"},{"startTime":1026.3,"endTime":1030.5,"body":"automatically a sign that the"},{"startTime":1030.5,"endTime":1034.82,"body":"infection has taken a foothold"},{"startTime":1030.5,"endTime":1034.82,"body":"in the person or the animal?"},{"startTime":1034.939,"endTime":1039.709,"body":"Well, I think it's assumed that"},{"startTime":1034.939,"endTime":1039.709,"body":"evidence of prior infection"},{"startTime":1039.769,"endTime":1043.639,"body":"indicates current infection,"},{"startTime":1039.769,"endTime":1043.639,"body":"because I think what's known"},{"startTime":1043.639,"endTime":1047.479,"body":"about toxo in general is we"},{"startTime":1043.639,"endTime":1047.479,"body":"don't clear the infection, the"},{"startTime":1047.509,"endTime":1051.829,"body":"virus creates cysts in the brain"},{"startTime":1047.509,"endTime":1051.829,"body":"and the muscle tissue and"},{"startTime":1051.829,"endTime":1054.619,"body":"persists for the lifetime of the"},{"startTime":1051.829,"endTime":1054.619,"body":"animal. I haven't read anything"},{"startTime":1054.649,"endTime":1057.709,"body":"about if there are any animals"},{"startTime":1054.649,"endTime":1057.709,"body":"that are able to clear the"},{"startTime":1057.709,"endTime":1060.409,"body":"infection. So I think if you've"},{"startTime":1057.709,"endTime":1060.409,"body":"ever been infected, it's"},{"startTime":1060.409,"endTime":1063.859,"body":"assumed, at least in this study,"},{"startTime":1060.409,"endTime":1063.859,"body":"and other studies I've looked at"},{"startTime":1063.889,"endTime":1065.569,"body":"the infection is still there."},{"startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1070.34,"body":"Right? So that makes sense. But"},{"startTime":1065.78,"endTime":1070.34,"body":"can we infer that only because"},{"startTime":1070.34,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"it's positive that there's some"},{"startTime":1070.34,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"behavioral change automatically?"},{"startTime":1073.13,"endTime":1076.19,"body":"No. But that's what they look"},{"startTime":1073.13,"endTime":1076.19,"body":"at. So they had two goals."},{"startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1079.25,"body":"First, they want to determine"},{"startTime":1076.49,"endTime":1079.25,"body":"because not all the wolves in"},{"startTime":1079.25,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"the park were living overlapping"},{"startTime":1079.25,"endTime":1081.5,"body":"with cougars. So they were"},{"startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1084.62,"body":"saying what kind of factors"},{"startTime":1081.5,"endTime":1084.62,"body":"contribute to infection and"},{"startTime":1084.62,"endTime":1087.47,"body":"wolves. And the second thing"},{"startTime":1084.62,"endTime":1087.47,"body":"they're trying to look for is"},{"startTime":1087.5,"endTime":1089.87,"body":"does infection alter wolf"},{"startTime":1087.5,"endTime":1089.87,"body":"behavior? So there were two"},{"startTime":1089.87,"endTime":1090.29,"body":"goals?"},{"startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"That was really, really cool."},{"startTime":1090.68,"endTime":1095.3,"body":"And so gosh, I can't imagine how"},{"startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1098.93,"body":"they did that. Did you get a"},{"startTime":1095.3,"endTime":1098.93,"body":"sense of like how they fancy"},{"startTime":1098.93,"endTime":1102.08,"body":"math behavior? Yeah, it's really"},{"startTime":1098.93,"endTime":1102.08,"body":"was a lot of math. Yeah. A lot"},{"startTime":1102.08,"endTime":1102.83,"body":"of math in there."},{"startTime":1102.89,"endTime":1106.01,"body":"Yeah. So for the first kind of"},{"startTime":1102.89,"endTime":1106.01,"body":"question to determine the"},{"startTime":1106.01,"endTime":1109.07,"body":"factors that affected the"},{"startTime":1106.01,"endTime":1109.07,"body":"likelihood that the wolves would"},{"startTime":1109.07,"endTime":1112.76,"body":"become infected with toxo. You"},{"startTime":1109.07,"endTime":1112.76,"body":"can't just say, were they living"},{"startTime":1112.76,"endTime":1114.74,"body":"in the same area, right, because"},{"startTime":1112.76,"endTime":1114.74,"body":"there's a lot of other things"},{"startTime":1114.74,"endTime":1118.64,"body":"that can contribute. So age of"},{"startTime":1114.74,"endTime":1118.64,"body":"the wolf sex of the wolf,"},{"startTime":1118.73,"endTime":1121.46,"body":"whether or not the wolf was a"},{"startTime":1118.73,"endTime":1121.46,"body":"pack leader or not the coat"},{"startTime":1121.46,"endTime":1125.15,"body":"color of the wolf, things like"},{"startTime":1121.46,"endTime":1125.15,"body":"that. And then what poor portion"},{"startTime":1125.15,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"of their territory was"},{"startTime":1125.15,"endTime":1128.51,"body":"overlapping with the Cougars. So"},{"startTime":1128.54,"endTime":1131.75,"body":"men kind of accounted for that"},{"startTime":1128.54,"endTime":1131.75,"body":"using a variety of like"},{"startTime":1131.75,"endTime":1134.45,"body":"statistical tools and"},{"startTime":1131.75,"endTime":1134.45,"body":"mathematical modeling. And what"},{"startTime":1134.45,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"they found for that question was"},{"startTime":1134.45,"endTime":1139.25,"body":"that the only feature they found"},{"startTime":1139.25,"endTime":1142.97,"body":"that was significant was whether"},{"startTime":1139.25,"endTime":1142.97,"body":"or not the wolves shared"},{"startTime":1142.97,"endTime":1146.15,"body":"territory with the Cougars. And"},{"startTime":1142.97,"endTime":1146.15,"body":"the the wolves that had a lot of"},{"startTime":1146.15,"endTime":1148.97,"body":"their territory like high"},{"startTime":1146.15,"endTime":1148.97,"body":"overlap with the Cougars were"},{"startTime":1148.97,"endTime":1152.3,"body":"nine times higher odds of being"},{"startTime":1148.97,"endTime":1152.3,"body":"infected with toxo."},{"startTime":1152.75,"endTime":1156.14,"body":"So we this basically showed"},{"startTime":1152.75,"endTime":1156.14,"body":"these these environmental"},{"startTime":1156.14,"endTime":1160.58,"body":"changes happen, the wolves"},{"startTime":1156.14,"endTime":1160.58,"body":"migrate down to share kind of"},{"startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1165.62,"body":"the same habitat as the Cougars"},{"startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1165.62,"body":"do. And because of this overlap,"},{"startTime":1165.62,"endTime":1170.24,"body":"we definitely see an increase in"},{"startTime":1165.62,"endTime":1170.24,"body":"transmission from the direct"},{"startTime":1170.24,"endTime":1174.02,"body":"host to this intermediate host"},{"startTime":1170.24,"endTime":1174.02,"body":"where the thing kind of find its"},{"startTime":1174.02,"endTime":1174.74,"body":"end pathway."},{"startTime":1175.04,"endTime":1177.95,"body":"Talking about transmission. You"},{"startTime":1175.04,"endTime":1177.95,"body":"know, I think all of the"},{"startTime":1177.95,"endTime":1184.4,"body":"listeners who own dogs know how"},{"startTime":1177.95,"endTime":1184.4,"body":"dogs sometimes even pick up cat"},{"startTime":1184.4,"endTime":1188.69,"body":"poo, right? I think we've we've"},{"startTime":1184.4,"endTime":1188.69,"body":"all seen this. One fun fact that"},{"startTime":1188.69,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"I found doing my research on"},{"startTime":1188.69,"endTime":1193.04,"body":"this is that the the O says from"},{"startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1196.91,"body":"Toxoplasma gondii I they"},{"startTime":1193.04,"endTime":1196.91,"body":"actually need to spend 24 hours,"},{"startTime":1196.94,"endTime":1200.18,"body":"maybe even up to five days"},{"startTime":1196.94,"endTime":1200.18,"body":"depending on environment. mental"},{"startTime":1200.18,"endTime":1202.88,"body":"conditions in the environment"},{"startTime":1200.18,"endTime":1202.88,"body":"before they can become"},{"startTime":1202.88,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"infectious. So it's not that you"},{"startTime":1202.88,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"find feline stool or something"},{"startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1210.89,"body":"like that, and then it's"},{"startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1210.89,"body":"immediately infectious. So it"},{"startTime":1210.89,"endTime":1215.21,"body":"takes some time for the the old"},{"startTime":1210.89,"endTime":1215.21,"body":"cysts to mature for lack of a"},{"startTime":1215.21,"endTime":1218.33,"body":"better term to become"},{"startTime":1215.21,"endTime":1218.33,"body":"infectious. So I know this is"},{"startTime":1218.33,"endTime":1220.25,"body":"not really covered in this"},{"startTime":1218.33,"endTime":1220.25,"body":"article, but"},{"startTime":1220.61,"endTime":1225.05,"body":"so it can't be the fresh stuff."},{"startTime":1220.61,"endTime":1225.05,"body":"Fresh juicy stuff. It's gotta be"},{"startTime":1225.05,"endTime":1228.05,"body":"the rock hard, you know, been"},{"startTime":1225.05,"endTime":1228.05,"body":"out there for a little while."},{"startTime":1228.05,"endTime":1229.13,"body":"Those are that's the real"},{"startTime":1229.19,"endTime":1233.06,"body":"is so to say so full anything"},{"startTime":1229.19,"endTime":1233.06,"body":"about seasonality in this paper?"},{"startTime":1233.06,"endTime":1234.11,"body":"And do you think they"},{"startTime":1234.11,"endTime":1239.33,"body":"speculate they say that they"},{"startTime":1234.11,"endTime":1239.33,"body":"don't think it is infected prey?"},{"startTime":1239.36,"endTime":1242.66,"body":"So they don't think it's the"},{"startTime":1239.36,"endTime":1242.66,"body":"infected elk or deer? And they"},{"startTime":1242.66,"endTime":1245.69,"body":"did some surveillance? And I"},{"startTime":1242.66,"endTime":1245.69,"body":"think elk it was and they didn't"},{"startTime":1245.69,"endTime":1248.78,"body":"really find any seropositive."},{"startTime":1245.69,"endTime":1248.78,"body":"Elk are a very small portion of"},{"startTime":1248.78,"endTime":1252.56,"body":"seropositive elk. So they"},{"startTime":1248.78,"endTime":1252.56,"body":"suspect that it's direct contact"},{"startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.76,"body":"with the Cougars, or the Oh"},{"startTime":1252.59,"endTime":1256.76,"body":"sites in the scat, I guess. But"},{"startTime":1256.76,"endTime":1259.37,"body":"in the winter, I don't know"},{"startTime":1256.76,"endTime":1259.37,"body":"maybe there's like a freeze thaw"},{"startTime":1259.37,"endTime":1263.75,"body":"thing going on, or could even be"},{"startTime":1259.37,"endTime":1263.75,"body":"contaminated water, or"},{"startTime":1263.75,"endTime":1266.81,"body":"contaminated vegetation or"},{"startTime":1263.75,"endTime":1266.81,"body":"something. Or I mean, they could"},{"startTime":1266.81,"endTime":1269.9,"body":"even be eating a burger. I don't"},{"startTime":1266.81,"endTime":1269.9,"body":"really understand those"},{"startTime":1269.9,"endTime":1273.74,"body":"dynamics, like do wolves. Would"},{"startTime":1269.9,"endTime":1273.74,"body":"a pack of wolves prey on a"},{"startTime":1273.74,"endTime":1276.44,"body":"cougar? Or would that be the"},{"startTime":1273.74,"endTime":1276.44,"body":"other way round? It'll get"},{"startTime":1276.44,"endTime":1281.81,"body":"emboldened. Yeah. Maybe because"},{"startTime":1276.44,"endTime":1281.81,"body":"if a wolf were to eat a cougar,"},{"startTime":1281.81,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"or they came across a dead"},{"startTime":1281.81,"endTime":1284.66,"body":"cougar or something, and Dennis"},{"startTime":1284.66,"endTime":1285.77,"body":"the wolves do that,"},{"startTime":1286.1,"endTime":1289.52,"body":"you know? Sure. Yeah. I'm just"},{"startTime":1286.1,"endTime":1289.52,"body":"amazed by the seropositivity"},{"startTime":1289.52,"endTime":1292.4,"body":"level of what was it? 45% or"},{"startTime":1289.52,"endTime":1292.4,"body":"something like that. So there"},{"startTime":1292.4,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"must be ongoing transmission"},{"startTime":1292.4,"endTime":1296.69,"body":"within the Cougars? Well, yeah."},{"startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1300.74,"body":"And also to spill over to the"},{"startTime":1296.69,"endTime":1300.74,"body":"dogs. Dogs to the wolves. So"},{"startTime":1300.74,"endTime":1301.82,"body":"sorry. Well,"},{"startTime":1301.85,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"so what else did they find? So"},{"startTime":1301.85,"endTime":1304.43,"body":"that was their first study?"},{"startTime":1305.06,"endTime":1308.93,"body":"That was their first question."},{"startTime":1305.06,"endTime":1308.93,"body":"age, sex, social status and coat"},{"startTime":1308.93,"endTime":1312.98,"body":"color did not affect"},{"startTime":1308.93,"endTime":1312.98,"body":"transmission of toxic to wolves,"},{"startTime":1313.01,"endTime":1317.87,"body":"but overlapping territory did."},{"startTime":1313.01,"endTime":1317.87,"body":"The second question was the big"},{"startTime":1317.87,"endTime":1320.93,"body":"one that kind of cool one did"},{"startTime":1317.87,"endTime":1320.93,"body":"toxic infection alter wolf"},{"startTime":1320.93,"endTime":1326.72,"body":"behavior? So here were they"},{"startTime":1320.93,"endTime":1326.72,"body":"identified four risky behaviors."},{"startTime":1326.96,"endTime":1330.05,"body":"The first one was becoming PAC"},{"startTime":1326.96,"endTime":1330.05,"body":"leader. They consider that a"},{"startTime":1330.05,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"risky behavior because there's"},{"startTime":1330.05,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"some kind of violence involved"},{"startTime":1332.54,"endTime":1335.81,"body":"in that, as I understand it's"},{"startTime":1332.54,"endTime":1335.81,"body":"quite a violent transition like"},{"startTime":1335.81,"endTime":1338.9,"body":"a fight. Is it like a fight to"},{"startTime":1335.81,"endTime":1338.9,"body":"the death? Or is it or somebody"},{"startTime":1338.9,"endTime":1342.11,"body":"retreat or somebody? Yeah. So"},{"startTime":1338.9,"endTime":1342.11,"body":"you would expect that to be"},{"startTime":1342.14,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"that's obviously a risky"},{"startTime":1342.14,"endTime":1343.49,"body":"behavior."},{"startTime":1343.699,"endTime":1348.109,"body":"I mean, going into any kind of"},{"startTime":1343.699,"endTime":1348.109,"body":"leadership politics, this is"},{"startTime":1348.109,"endTime":1351.319,"body":"risky behavior. You know, you're"},{"startTime":1348.109,"endTime":1351.319,"body":"putting a lot of the comfort of"},{"startTime":1351.319,"endTime":1355.039,"body":"your home anonymity. You know,"},{"startTime":1351.319,"endTime":1355.039,"body":"these wolves are just putting"},{"startTime":1355.039,"endTime":1356.059,"body":"themselves out there."},{"startTime":1356.24,"endTime":1361.4,"body":"Yeah, maybe that should be a"},{"startTime":1356.24,"endTime":1361.4,"body":"study. Yeah. Parasites among"},{"startTime":1361.88,"endTime":1365.0,"body":"political leaders? Oh, gosh,"},{"startTime":1361.88,"endTime":1365.0,"body":"don't get us started on that."},{"startTime":1366.77,"endTime":1368.54,"body":"There's so many jokes there."},{"startTime":1366.77,"endTime":1368.54,"body":"There's like you can take it"},{"startTime":1368.54,"endTime":1368.78,"body":"down."},{"startTime":1369.59,"endTime":1372.8,"body":"Yeah, okay, let's remain"},{"startTime":1369.59,"endTime":1372.8,"body":"focused, bringing in the second"},{"startTime":1372.8,"endTime":1376.85,"body":"risky behavior was dispersal. So"},{"startTime":1372.8,"endTime":1376.85,"body":"basically, this is when a wolf"},{"startTime":1376.88,"endTime":1380.27,"body":"leaves his pack or her pack and"},{"startTime":1376.88,"endTime":1380.27,"body":"never comes back. And usually"},{"startTime":1380.27,"endTime":1382.91,"body":"this is, this is really risky,"},{"startTime":1380.27,"endTime":1382.91,"body":"right, because you lose the"},{"startTime":1382.91,"endTime":1384.89,"body":"protection of the pack,"},{"startTime":1382.91,"endTime":1384.89,"body":"particularly in the harsh"},{"startTime":1384.89,"endTime":1388.46,"body":"environment of winter. But"},{"startTime":1384.89,"endTime":1388.46,"body":"generally wolves do this, and it"},{"startTime":1388.46,"endTime":1390.74,"body":"increases the likelihood that"},{"startTime":1388.46,"endTime":1390.74,"body":"they'll find a mate. Or maybe"},{"startTime":1390.74,"endTime":1393.74,"body":"they can come across another"},{"startTime":1390.74,"endTime":1393.74,"body":"pack and try to challenge that"},{"startTime":1393.74,"endTime":1397.25,"body":"pack for leadership. So"},{"startTime":1393.74,"endTime":1397.25,"body":"dispersal is another high risk"},{"startTime":1397.28,"endTime":1399.89,"body":"behavior in wolves. And then the"},{"startTime":1397.28,"endTime":1399.89,"body":"other two were related to"},{"startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1403.31,"body":"people. One was habituation,"},{"startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1403.31,"body":"which is how likely the wolf is"},{"startTime":1403.31,"endTime":1407.06,"body":"to approach people or a vehicle."},{"startTime":1403.31,"endTime":1407.06,"body":"And then the the final risky"},{"startTime":1407.06,"endTime":1411.05,"body":"behavior was Did they die as the"},{"startTime":1407.06,"endTime":1411.05,"body":"result of interaction with a"},{"startTime":1411.05,"endTime":1413.36,"body":"human. So those were the four"},{"startTime":1411.05,"endTime":1413.36,"body":"risky behaviors that they"},{"startTime":1413.51,"endTime":1419.93,"body":"assessed. So first off, they"},{"startTime":1413.51,"endTime":1419.93,"body":"found that of the wolves that"},{"startTime":1419.93,"endTime":1423.11,"body":"dispersed, they were 11 times"},{"startTime":1419.93,"endTime":1423.11,"body":"more likely to be infected with"},{"startTime":1423.11,"endTime":1427.19,"body":"toxo. So that's a pretty big"},{"startTime":1423.11,"endTime":1427.19,"body":"increase, and your willingness"},{"startTime":1427.19,"endTime":1430.97,"body":"to disperse. That's pretty"},{"startTime":1427.19,"endTime":1430.97,"body":"incredible. And this is kind of"},{"startTime":1430.97,"endTime":1434.57,"body":"really the thing that stuck out"},{"startTime":1430.97,"endTime":1434.57,"body":"the odds of an infected wolf"},{"startTime":1434.57,"endTime":1440.21,"body":"becoming a pack leader was 46"},{"startTime":1434.57,"endTime":1440.21,"body":"times higher in a seropositive"},{"startTime":1440.24,"endTime":1443.36,"body":"infected wolf than an uninfected"},{"startTime":1440.24,"endTime":1443.36,"body":"Wolf. So that's almost 50%"},{"startTime":1443.36,"endTime":1447.17,"body":"Higher. So that's huge. And just"},{"startTime":1443.36,"endTime":1447.17,"body":"imagine you've become leader of"},{"startTime":1447.17,"endTime":1449.63,"body":"the pack. And now you're the one"},{"startTime":1447.17,"endTime":1449.63,"body":"taking risky behavior, and"},{"startTime":1449.63,"endTime":1453.92,"body":"you're maybe engaging your whole"},{"startTime":1449.63,"endTime":1453.92,"body":"path in this new risky behavior."},{"startTime":1453.95,"endTime":1455.96,"body":"And just think of the"},{"startTime":1453.95,"endTime":1455.96,"body":"implications for like social"},{"startTime":1455.96,"endTime":1459.53,"body":"learning and new kind of wolf"},{"startTime":1455.96,"endTime":1459.53,"body":"cubs that are being born into"},{"startTime":1459.53,"endTime":1463.28,"body":"that pack. That's a riskier"},{"startTime":1459.53,"endTime":1463.28,"body":"pack. But the two things about"},{"startTime":1463.28,"endTime":1466.25,"body":"humans are the two risky things"},{"startTime":1463.28,"endTime":1466.25,"body":"about humans, they didn't find"},{"startTime":1466.25,"endTime":1469.52,"body":"any statistically significant"},{"startTime":1466.25,"endTime":1469.52,"body":"data. So that is good. And it's"},{"startTime":1469.52,"endTime":1471.68,"body":"not increasing the likelihood"},{"startTime":1469.52,"endTime":1471.68,"body":"that the wolves are going to be"},{"startTime":1471.68,"endTime":1473.78,"body":"approaching people or something"},{"startTime":1471.68,"endTime":1473.78,"body":"like that, because"},{"startTime":1473.78,"endTime":1476.39,"body":"that's quite risky for them,"},{"startTime":1473.78,"endTime":1476.39,"body":"right? Like that's, yeah, people"},{"startTime":1476.39,"endTime":1479.84,"body":"are probably scared of that."},{"startTime":1476.39,"endTime":1479.84,"body":"We're scared of wolves, but it's"},{"startTime":1479.84,"endTime":1481.13,"body":"probably the biggest risk to"},{"startTime":1479.84,"endTime":1481.13,"body":"them."},{"startTime":1481.37,"endTime":1484.64,"body":"Right? The thing is, is they"},{"startTime":1481.37,"endTime":1484.64,"body":"even acknowledge it that their"},{"startTime":1484.64,"endTime":1487.97,"body":"sample size for that was very,"},{"startTime":1484.64,"endTime":1487.97,"body":"very small. They didn't really"},{"startTime":1487.97,"endTime":1492.14,"body":"detect much interaction between"},{"startTime":1487.97,"endTime":1492.14,"body":"wolves and people. So wolves"},{"startTime":1492.14,"endTime":1494.66,"body":"that are infected might be more"},{"startTime":1492.14,"endTime":1494.66,"body":"likely to approach people but"},{"startTime":1494.72,"endTime":1495.35,"body":"I'm really just"},{"startTime":1495.35,"endTime":1498.62,"body":"a thought here on the side. Not"},{"startTime":1495.35,"endTime":1498.62,"body":"crucial, but I think that's when"},{"startTime":1498.62,"endTime":1501.68,"body":"it comes to rabies education."},{"startTime":1498.62,"endTime":1501.68,"body":"And we always teach people that"},{"startTime":1502.19,"endTime":1506.36,"body":"if you find a carnivore or"},{"startTime":1502.19,"endTime":1506.36,"body":"omnivore that's very docile that"},{"startTime":1506.36,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"this could be a sign of, you"},{"startTime":1506.36,"endTime":1510.23,"body":"know, some form of infection or"},{"startTime":1510.23,"endTime":1513.92,"body":"rabies infection. Right. So a"},{"startTime":1510.23,"endTime":1513.92,"body":"wolf approaching being way more"},{"startTime":1513.92,"endTime":1517.91,"body":"comfortable with the human could"},{"startTime":1513.92,"endTime":1517.91,"body":"trigger somebody you think, you"},{"startTime":1517.91,"endTime":1520.73,"body":"know, we need to shoot the wolf"},{"startTime":1517.91,"endTime":1520.73,"body":"because it's you know, has"},{"startTime":1520.73,"endTime":1521.27,"body":"rabies."},{"startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1526.13,"body":"Interesting. Yeah. No, that's,"},{"startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1526.13,"body":"that's fascinating. Danielle, as"},{"startTime":1526.13,"endTime":1529.01,"body":"I was reading that I was just,"},{"startTime":1526.13,"endTime":1529.01,"body":"again, harkening back to that"},{"startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1532.85,"body":"human side thing, we're"},{"startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1532.85,"body":"definitely see differences in"},{"startTime":1532.85,"endTime":1537.65,"body":"behavior that's caused by this"},{"startTime":1532.85,"endTime":1537.65,"body":"particular parasite. So very"},{"startTime":1537.65,"endTime":1540.38,"body":"cool. Yeah, it's so cool. It's"},{"startTime":1537.65,"endTime":1540.38,"body":"so fascinating."},{"startTime":1540.5,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"What do you think are the"},{"startTime":1540.5,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"implications for this? They've"},{"startTime":1545.06,"endTime":1548.78,"body":"done this really elegant study,"},{"startTime":1545.06,"endTime":1548.78,"body":"they've really, I think, shown"},{"startTime":1548.78,"endTime":1552.92,"body":"something. And certainly that"},{"startTime":1548.78,"endTime":1552.92,"body":"has been shown experimentally in"},{"startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1556.04,"body":"controlled conditions, in rats,"},{"startTime":1552.92,"endTime":1556.04,"body":"and as you mentioned, in some"},{"startTime":1556.04,"endTime":1558.38,"body":"other animals, that there are"},{"startTime":1556.04,"endTime":1558.38,"body":"these behavior changes that"},{"startTime":1558.38,"endTime":1563.06,"body":"happen with Toxoplasma gondii,"},{"startTime":1558.38,"endTime":1563.06,"body":"infection. And now they've shown"},{"startTime":1563.06,"endTime":1567.26,"body":"in a real world environment, and"},{"startTime":1563.06,"endTime":1567.26,"body":"with control of a lot of"},{"startTime":1567.26,"endTime":1571.61,"body":"variables and a lot of data,"},{"startTime":1567.26,"endTime":1571.61,"body":"that this is independent of"},{"startTime":1571.61,"endTime":1576.17,"body":"other things. This is a"},{"startTime":1571.61,"endTime":1576.17,"body":"contributor to not only changes"},{"startTime":1576.17,"endTime":1578.72,"body":"in the individual's behavior,"},{"startTime":1576.17,"endTime":1578.72,"body":"the individual wolves, but the"},{"startTime":1578.72,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"pack behavior, like you pointed"},{"startTime":1578.72,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"out. So where do you think this"},{"startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1584.72,"body":"leads us? What are the"},{"startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1584.72,"body":"implications for this? Where"},{"startTime":1584.72,"endTime":1588.68,"body":"does it go for maybe other"},{"startTime":1584.72,"endTime":1588.68,"body":"diseases? I always think, you"},{"startTime":1588.68,"endTime":1591.05,"body":"know, one, health is not always"},{"startTime":1588.68,"endTime":1591.05,"body":"about human health, right? It's"},{"startTime":1591.05,"endTime":1594.23,"body":"about interconnections human"},{"startTime":1591.05,"endTime":1594.23,"body":"animal environmental health. And"},{"startTime":1594.23,"endTime":1597.74,"body":"so we selfishly sometimes look"},{"startTime":1594.23,"endTime":1597.74,"body":"at animal studies as like, some"},{"startTime":1597.74,"endTime":1602.57,"body":"excuse to apply it to human"},{"startTime":1597.74,"endTime":1602.57,"body":"populations, right? Do you think"},{"startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"we're there yet to be able to"},{"startTime":1602.57,"endTime":1606.05,"body":"extrapolate that? Or is it just"},{"startTime":1606.05,"endTime":1607.37,"body":"another line of investigation?"},{"startTime":1607.46,"endTime":1610.28,"body":"So I don't know, maybe it'd be"},{"startTime":1607.46,"endTime":1610.28,"body":"better to ask you those"},{"startTime":1610.28,"endTime":1612.98,"body":"questions as a physician,"},{"startTime":1610.28,"endTime":1612.98,"body":"because for me, what I'm"},{"startTime":1612.98,"endTime":1615.77,"body":"thinking about is how does this"},{"startTime":1612.98,"endTime":1615.77,"body":"affect park management? How does"},{"startTime":1615.77,"endTime":1620.27,"body":"this affect wildlife management,"},{"startTime":1615.77,"endTime":1620.27,"body":"the overlap in these two"},{"startTime":1620.27,"endTime":1623.3,"body":"predators is kind of something"},{"startTime":1620.27,"endTime":1623.3,"body":"that isn't really seen anywhere"},{"startTime":1623.3,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"else. And it's seen in this area"},{"startTime":1623.3,"endTime":1625.73,"body":"where the wolves were"},{"startTime":1625.73,"endTime":1628.61,"body":"artificially reintroduced into"},{"startTime":1625.73,"endTime":1628.61,"body":"that, and something that we"},{"startTime":1628.85,"endTime":1631.52,"body":"looked more closely at and maybe"},{"startTime":1628.85,"endTime":1631.52,"body":"should look more closely at"},{"startTime":1631.52,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"moving forward. And the impact"},{"startTime":1631.52,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"that this could ultimately have"},{"startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1637.58,"body":"on the wolf population, right?"},{"startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1637.58,"body":"This is all happening during the"},{"startTime":1637.58,"endTime":1642.29,"body":"winter. And this is also just so"},{"startTime":1637.58,"endTime":1642.29,"body":"happens to be when wolf mating"},{"startTime":1642.29,"endTime":1645.26,"body":"season and whopping season is"},{"startTime":1642.29,"endTime":1645.26,"body":"going on, this is increasing the"},{"startTime":1645.26,"endTime":1649.52,"body":"likelihood that a wolf will"},{"startTime":1645.26,"endTime":1649.52,"body":"become infected while they are"},{"startTime":1649.67,"endTime":1653.33,"body":"pregnant and carrying cubs. And"},{"startTime":1649.67,"endTime":1653.33,"body":"this is going to increase the"},{"startTime":1653.33,"endTime":1657.83,"body":"likelihood that it's transmitted"},{"startTime":1653.33,"endTime":1657.83,"body":"vertically from mother to"},{"startTime":1657.83,"endTime":1661.43,"body":"offspring. And if just like"},{"startTime":1657.83,"endTime":1661.43,"body":"within humans, there can be"},{"startTime":1661.43,"endTime":1666.23,"body":"really extreme damage to the"},{"startTime":1661.43,"endTime":1666.23,"body":"fetal Wolf, if the mother is"},{"startTime":1666.23,"endTime":1668.96,"body":"infected. So will this have a"},{"startTime":1666.23,"endTime":1668.96,"body":"long term decrease in the wolf"},{"startTime":1668.96,"endTime":1671.96,"body":"population overall? Will it"},{"startTime":1668.96,"endTime":1671.96,"body":"increase the likelihood that the"},{"startTime":1671.96,"endTime":1674.33,"body":"wolves will die? Because they're"},{"startTime":1671.96,"endTime":1674.33,"body":"taking a risky behavior? Does"},{"startTime":1674.57,"endTime":1677.84,"body":"this kind of interaction with"},{"startTime":1674.57,"endTime":1677.84,"body":"Cougars put them at risk in"},{"startTime":1677.84,"endTime":1682.4,"body":"other ways than just kind of the"},{"startTime":1677.84,"endTime":1682.4,"body":"predator predator carnivore,"},{"startTime":1682.4,"endTime":1685.76,"body":"carnivore interactions? So yeah,"},{"startTime":1682.4,"endTime":1685.76,"body":"that's really what I'm"},{"startTime":1685.76,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"interested in, and what I'm"},{"startTime":1685.76,"endTime":1687.83,"body":"going to be looking for in the"},{"startTime":1687.83,"endTime":1688.46,"body":"future."},{"startTime":1688.67,"endTime":1691.58,"body":"Well, if the authors are"},{"startTime":1688.67,"endTime":1691.58,"body":"listening, please continue to"},{"startTime":1691.58,"endTime":1693.56,"body":"collect data for the next 26"},{"startTime":1691.58,"endTime":1693.56,"body":"years."},{"startTime":1693.59,"endTime":1697.28,"body":"And what an amazing example of"},{"startTime":1693.59,"endTime":1697.28,"body":"why it's so important to collect"},{"startTime":1697.28,"endTime":1700.94,"body":"data for long periods of time,"},{"startTime":1697.28,"endTime":1700.94,"body":"right? The study has 26 years"},{"startTime":1700.94,"endTime":1705.05,"body":"worth of data. Oh, my gosh, it's"},{"startTime":1700.94,"endTime":1705.05,"body":"incredible. How, how old were we"},{"startTime":1705.05,"endTime":1707.39,"body":"26 years ago? You know,"},{"startTime":1705.05,"endTime":1707.39,"body":"obviously, the people that did"},{"startTime":1707.39,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"this work, were not the people"},{"startTime":1707.39,"endTime":1710.18,"body":"who started it. So what kind of"},{"startTime":1710.18,"endTime":1711.98,"body":"foresight went into this?"},{"startTime":1712.07,"endTime":1716.18,"body":"Absolutely. I think this is a"},{"startTime":1712.07,"endTime":1716.18,"body":"very elegant study. I think it's"},{"startTime":1716.18,"endTime":1720.53,"body":"just amazing paper. I feel like"},{"startTime":1716.18,"endTime":1720.53,"body":"I'm the Debbie downer here, the"},{"startTime":1720.53,"endTime":1724.31,"body":"critical voice. But one thing"},{"startTime":1720.53,"endTime":1724.31,"body":"that I just have a really hard"},{"startTime":1724.31,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"time wrapping my head around is"},{"startTime":1724.31,"endTime":1730.31,"body":"how does assist really leads to"},{"startTime":1730.46,"endTime":1733.58,"body":"behavioral changes. I mean, you"},{"startTime":1730.46,"endTime":1733.58,"body":"talked about different levels of"},{"startTime":1733.58,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"dopamine, different levels of"},{"startTime":1733.58,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"testosterone. And I think that"},{"startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1740.63,"body":"makes a lot of sense. But from"},{"startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1740.63,"body":"what I remember from"},{"startTime":1740.66,"endTime":1745.88,"body":"histopathology, back in the day,"},{"startTime":1740.66,"endTime":1745.88,"body":"those parasites those cysts,"},{"startTime":1745.91,"endTime":1750.56,"body":"they randomly occur in the"},{"startTime":1745.91,"endTime":1750.56,"body":"brain, and not in specific"},{"startTime":1750.56,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"regions of the brain. What you"},{"startTime":1750.56,"endTime":1754.64,"body":"would expect if you think about"},{"startTime":1754.64,"endTime":1759.11,"body":"the hypothalamic, pituitary"},{"startTime":1754.64,"endTime":1759.11,"body":"gonadal axis, or whatever it's"},{"startTime":1759.11,"endTime":1762.86,"body":"called, right? So where you have"},{"startTime":1759.11,"endTime":1762.86,"body":"to have a lesion in the"},{"startTime":1762.86,"endTime":1766.97,"body":"hypothalamus, and that will"},{"startTime":1762.86,"endTime":1766.97,"body":"maybe change the expression of"},{"startTime":1767.0,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"GN HR or something like that,"},{"startTime":1767.0,"endTime":1771.35,"body":"right. And last, but you know,"},{"startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1775.16,"body":"like the axis that triggers"},{"startTime":1771.35,"endTime":1775.16,"body":"testosterone production, so I"},{"startTime":1775.16,"endTime":1781.04,"body":"just don't understand how a"},{"startTime":1775.16,"endTime":1781.04,"body":"randomly placed cyst will lead"},{"startTime":1781.04,"endTime":1783.17,"body":"to an increase in testosterone."},{"startTime":1783.65,"endTime":1787.01,"body":"And that's, I think, for"},{"startTime":1783.65,"endTime":1787.01,"body":"endocrinologist answer and"},{"startTime":1787.01,"endTime":1789.68,"body":"there's probably a couple of"},{"startTime":1787.01,"endTime":1789.68,"body":"experimental papers that"},{"startTime":1789.68,"endTime":1794.57,"body":"describe that. We do know that a"},{"startTime":1789.68,"endTime":1794.57,"body":"lot of infections either by way"},{"startTime":1794.57,"endTime":1797.99,"body":"of a direct effect of the"},{"startTime":1794.57,"endTime":1797.99,"body":"pathogen the infection happens."},{"startTime":1798.2,"endTime":1803.63,"body":"Thing sets up shop, it can cause"},{"startTime":1798.2,"endTime":1803.63,"body":"the secretion it can induce by"},{"startTime":1803.63,"endTime":1807.02,"body":"secreting its own chemicals that"},{"startTime":1803.63,"endTime":1807.02,"body":"can cause the secretion of"},{"startTime":1807.02,"endTime":1810.23,"body":"certain hormones, or"},{"startTime":1807.02,"endTime":1810.23,"body":"neurotransmitters like dopamine,"},{"startTime":1810.41,"endTime":1813.8,"body":"but also possibly the"},{"startTime":1810.41,"endTime":1813.8,"body":"inflammatory response. Right? So"},{"startTime":1813.8,"endTime":1817.13,"body":"maybe it's a question of how our"},{"startTime":1813.8,"endTime":1817.13,"body":"bodies are responding to the"},{"startTime":1817.13,"endTime":1820.7,"body":"pathogen. So it's that"},{"startTime":1817.13,"endTime":1820.7,"body":"connection. And I can't speak"},{"startTime":1820.7,"endTime":1823.16,"body":"intelligently about either of"},{"startTime":1820.7,"endTime":1823.16,"body":"those two things. But I would"},{"startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1826.37,"body":"say those are interesting"},{"startTime":1823.16,"endTime":1826.37,"body":"questions that for me would come"},{"startTime":1826.37,"endTime":1826.73,"body":"from this."},{"startTime":1826.73,"endTime":1829.76,"body":"Absolutely. And I think that we"},{"startTime":1826.73,"endTime":1829.76,"body":"always have these discussions in"},{"startTime":1829.76,"endTime":1832.97,"body":"the one health realm that's when"},{"startTime":1829.76,"endTime":1832.97,"body":"it comes to one health, we talk"},{"startTime":1832.97,"endTime":1836.72,"body":"about policy and have these"},{"startTime":1832.97,"endTime":1836.72,"body":"frameworks and but I think"},{"startTime":1836.72,"endTime":1841.1,"body":"what's often missing missing is"},{"startTime":1836.72,"endTime":1841.1,"body":"one health research. And I think"},{"startTime":1841.1,"endTime":1845.39,"body":"this is such a good example of"},{"startTime":1841.1,"endTime":1845.39,"body":"One Health Research, where you"},{"startTime":1845.39,"endTime":1848.63,"body":"have the behavioral changes. And"},{"startTime":1845.39,"endTime":1848.63,"body":"now let's dive into the"},{"startTime":1848.63,"endTime":1852.11,"body":"molecular side of things. Let's"},{"startTime":1848.63,"endTime":1852.11,"body":"now understand the pathogenesis"},{"startTime":1852.11,"endTime":1856.16,"body":"behind this. And I think that"},{"startTime":1852.11,"endTime":1856.16,"body":"is, by definition, one health"},{"startTime":1856.16,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"research, and I think there"},{"startTime":1856.16,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"needs to be more effort on this."},{"startTime":1859.459,"endTime":1863.449,"body":"I think that would be maybe the"},{"startTime":1859.459,"endTime":1863.449,"body":"next paper we can read, we'll go"},{"startTime":1863.449,"endTime":1866.119,"body":"look and see if any of our"},{"startTime":1863.449,"endTime":1866.119,"body":"listeners know of any papers"},{"startTime":1866.119,"endTime":1871.699,"body":"that talk more mechanistically"},{"startTime":1866.119,"endTime":1871.699,"body":"about how parasites or viruses"},{"startTime":1871.699,"endTime":1876.739,"body":"can alter expression of hormones"},{"startTime":1871.699,"endTime":1876.739,"body":"or neurotransmitters. Yeah, I'm"},{"startTime":1876.739,"endTime":1880.189,"body":"sure there's people I'm sure"},{"startTime":1876.739,"endTime":1880.189,"body":"this is an area of research, not"},{"startTime":1880.189,"endTime":1880.699,"body":"my area of"},{"startTime":1881.599,"endTime":1884.209,"body":"environmental peace. You know, I"},{"startTime":1881.599,"endTime":1884.209,"body":"used to live in Botswana,"},{"startTime":1884.209,"endTime":1887.959,"body":"Southern Africa. And there's"},{"startTime":1884.209,"endTime":1887.959,"body":"this lovely Game Reserve, right"},{"startTime":1887.959,"endTime":1891.469,"body":"across the border from Botswana"},{"startTime":1887.959,"endTime":1891.469,"body":"into South Africa. That's called"},{"startTime":1891.469,"endTime":1895.189,"body":"the Monday QA game game reserve,"},{"startTime":1891.469,"endTime":1895.189,"body":"and shout out to Tao lodge where"},{"startTime":1895.189,"endTime":1899.299,"body":"we usually stay and bow in the"},{"startTime":1895.189,"endTime":1899.299,"body":"local language means means lion."},{"startTime":1899.779,"endTime":1904.189,"body":"So this particular region of the"},{"startTime":1899.779,"endTime":1904.189,"body":"park that we stay in is full of"},{"startTime":1904.189,"endTime":1907.609,"body":"lions, and in fact, becoming"},{"startTime":1904.189,"endTime":1907.609,"body":"quite a big problem in the park,"},{"startTime":1907.609,"endTime":1911.029,"body":"because not only are they very"},{"startTime":1907.609,"endTime":1911.029,"body":"territorial and battling each"},{"startTime":1911.029,"endTime":1915.439,"body":"other, but they also compete for"},{"startTime":1911.029,"endTime":1915.439,"body":"food sources. And over the"},{"startTime":1915.439,"endTime":1919.579,"body":"years, South Africa, instituted"},{"startTime":1915.439,"endTime":1919.579,"body":"a lot of safety policies for"},{"startTime":1919.579,"endTime":1922.789,"body":"wild animals. And so they've"},{"startTime":1919.579,"endTime":1922.789,"body":"also become a destination for"},{"startTime":1922.789,"endTime":1928.339,"body":"rescue lions. And so as the lion"},{"startTime":1922.789,"endTime":1928.339,"body":"population has, in some ways,"},{"startTime":1928.369,"endTime":1932.389,"body":"naturally, and in some ways"},{"startTime":1928.369,"endTime":1932.389,"body":"artificially increased in this"},{"startTime":1932.479,"endTime":1935.209,"body":"enclosed game park, but it's"},{"startTime":1932.479,"endTime":1935.209,"body":"still a game park, I wonder"},{"startTime":1935.209,"endTime":1937.939,"body":"about, you know, these are"},{"startTime":1935.209,"endTime":1937.939,"body":"feline animals, right? So how"},{"startTime":1937.939,"endTime":1941.269,"body":"much toxo is out there? And what"},{"startTime":1937.939,"endTime":1941.269,"body":"are we gonna be seeing maybe"},{"startTime":1941.269,"endTime":1947.389,"body":"very bold giraffes, oh, that are"},{"startTime":1941.269,"endTime":1947.389,"body":"just coming up to two lions,"},{"startTime":1947.66,"endTime":1949.22,"body":"two lions and saying, Hey,"},{"startTime":1949.43,"endTime":1950.24,"body":"Scott, maybe"},{"startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1954.68,"body":"they're herbivores, but you"},{"startTime":1951.29,"endTime":1954.68,"body":"know, that can cover the plant"},{"startTime":1954.68,"endTime":1958.61,"body":"life. And so I, you know, you"},{"startTime":1954.68,"endTime":1958.61,"body":"really do wonder about not only"},{"startTime":1958.61,"endTime":1961.49,"body":"natural increases in these"},{"startTime":1958.61,"endTime":1961.49,"body":"populations that can be"},{"startTime":1961.85,"endTime":1965.63,"body":"replicated hosts for these"},{"startTime":1961.85,"endTime":1965.63,"body":"pathogens, but also the dynamics"},{"startTime":1965.63,"endTime":1969.56,"body":"of when humans introduce them."},{"startTime":1965.63,"endTime":1969.56,"body":"So human behavior, once again,"},{"startTime":1969.59,"endTime":1971.96,"body":"it's not always terrible. We're"},{"startTime":1969.59,"endTime":1971.96,"body":"doing something good, right?"},{"startTime":1971.96,"endTime":1974.45,"body":"We're trying to save lions,"},{"startTime":1971.96,"endTime":1974.45,"body":"right. But there's always"},{"startTime":1974.48,"endTime":1977.39,"body":"potentially downstream"},{"startTime":1974.48,"endTime":1977.39,"body":"consequences to be considered."},{"startTime":1977.66,"endTime":1981.26,"body":"So Matt, for our listeners that"},{"startTime":1977.66,"endTime":1981.26,"body":"don't know too much about"},{"startTime":1981.29,"endTime":1985.49,"body":"toxoplasma. What can you tell us"},{"startTime":1981.29,"endTime":1985.49,"body":"about congenital toxoplasma"},{"startTime":1985.49,"endTime":1990.05,"body":"infection and pregnant women and"},{"startTime":1985.49,"endTime":1990.05,"body":"cleaning the litter box and so"},{"startTime":1990.05,"endTime":1992.36,"body":"on? Do you have some advice? And"},{"startTime":1990.05,"endTime":1992.36,"body":"can you tell the listeners a"},{"startTime":1992.36,"endTime":1993.23,"body":"little bit about that?"},{"startTime":1993.47,"endTime":1996.05,"body":"So I can't say much"},{"startTime":1993.47,"endTime":1996.05,"body":"intelligently because I'm not an"},{"startTime":1996.05,"endTime":1999.65,"body":"OBGYN. Boy, the last time I took"},{"startTime":1996.05,"endTime":1999.65,"body":"care of a pregnant person was a"},{"startTime":1999.65,"endTime":2003.52,"body":"long time ago. But generally,"},{"startTime":1999.65,"endTime":2003.52,"body":"what we know is that it causes"},{"startTime":2003.52,"endTime":2008.65,"body":"congenital fetal malformations."},{"startTime":2003.52,"endTime":2008.65,"body":"It's one of the torch infections"},{"startTime":2008.68,"endTime":2011.77,"body":"that is associated with fetal"},{"startTime":2008.68,"endTime":2011.77,"body":"abnormality, what"},{"startTime":2011.77,"endTime":2013.21,"body":"is what is torched mean?"},{"startTime":2013.72,"endTime":2017.14,"body":"So thanks for asking that"},{"startTime":2013.72,"endTime":2017.14,"body":"Dennis. Torch infections are"},{"startTime":2017.14,"endTime":2021.55,"body":"toxoplasma others which includes"},{"startTime":2017.14,"endTime":2021.55,"body":"syphilis, and hepatitis B,"},{"startTime":2021.79,"endTime":2026.65,"body":"rubella, cytomegalovirus, CMV,"},{"startTime":2021.79,"endTime":2026.65,"body":"and herpes simplex. So that's a"},{"startTime":2026.65,"endTime":2030.37,"body":"group of infections that we're"},{"startTime":2026.65,"endTime":2030.37,"body":"always keen to prevent, in"},{"startTime":2030.37,"endTime":2033.7,"body":"practice, how do the babies"},{"startTime":2030.37,"endTime":2033.7,"body":"become its vertical, so these"},{"startTime":2033.7,"endTime":2037.39,"body":"pathogens are able to traverse"},{"startTime":2033.7,"endTime":2037.39,"body":"the placenta. So as you're just"},{"startTime":2037.39,"endTime":2039.79,"body":"stating, as your fetus is"},{"startTime":2037.39,"endTime":2039.79,"body":"growing inside the uterus,"},{"startTime":2039.79,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"there's this really beautiful"},{"startTime":2039.79,"endTime":2043.57,"body":"apparatus, that's the placenta"},{"startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2046.06,"body":"that it's not much to look at"},{"startTime":2043.57,"endTime":2046.06,"body":"when it's on the outside on the"},{"startTime":2046.06,"endTime":2050.53,"body":"inside. It is just a glorious"},{"startTime":2046.06,"endTime":2050.53,"body":"network of blood vessels and"},{"startTime":2050.53,"endTime":2055.81,"body":"signaling and it's basically the"},{"startTime":2050.53,"endTime":2055.81,"body":"main organ that filters maternal"},{"startTime":2055.81,"endTime":2059.29,"body":"blood for any kind of adverse"},{"startTime":2055.81,"endTime":2059.29,"body":"things and make sure that"},{"startTime":2059.29,"endTime":2062.5,"body":"whatever is coming to the fetus"},{"startTime":2059.29,"endTime":2062.5,"body":"is going to be nutritious, and"},{"startTime":2062.5,"endTime":2066.04,"body":"there are certain pathogens that"},{"startTime":2062.5,"endTime":2066.04,"body":"evade that placental barrier."},{"startTime":2066.249,"endTime":2069.339,"body":"So Danielle, what would you say"},{"startTime":2066.249,"endTime":2069.339,"body":"if a pregnant woman wants to"},{"startTime":2069.339,"endTime":2072.729,"body":"surrender her cat because she's"},{"startTime":2069.339,"endTime":2072.729,"body":"afraid that she could get"},{"startTime":2072.729,"endTime":2073.479,"body":"toxoplasma"},{"startTime":2073.63,"endTime":2079.54,"body":"have your husband take care of"},{"startTime":2073.63,"endTime":2079.54,"body":"the cat. So the primary risk to"},{"startTime":2079.63,"endTime":2083.8,"body":"pregnant women would be in"},{"startTime":2079.63,"endTime":2083.8,"body":"dealing with the cat excrement"},{"startTime":2083.83,"endTime":2086.65,"body":"and cat feces, so cleaning the"},{"startTime":2083.83,"endTime":2086.65,"body":"litter box or if you have an"},{"startTime":2086.65,"endTime":2089.44,"body":"outdoor cat and you're gardening"},{"startTime":2086.65,"endTime":2089.44,"body":"or something like that, or if"},{"startTime":2089.44,"endTime":2092.83,"body":"you're living around a lot of"},{"startTime":2089.44,"endTime":2092.83,"body":"stray cats so there's certain"},{"startTime":2092.83,"endTime":2095.14,"body":"ways that you can protect"},{"startTime":2092.83,"endTime":2095.14,"body":"yourself from that kind of"},{"startTime":2095.14,"endTime":2097.72,"body":"transmission. You can wear"},{"startTime":2095.14,"endTime":2097.72,"body":"gloves while you're changing the"},{"startTime":2097.72,"endTime":2100.57,"body":"litter box, you can ask someone"},{"startTime":2097.72,"endTime":2100.57,"body":"else in your family To change"},{"startTime":2100.57,"endTime":2104.92,"body":"the litter box, you can have"},{"startTime":2100.57,"endTime":2104.92,"body":"your cat, go stay with a friend"},{"startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2107.11,"body":"during the time that you're"},{"startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2107.11,"body":"pregnant and then come back and"},{"startTime":2107.11,"endTime":2109.33,"body":"live with you. So there's"},{"startTime":2107.11,"endTime":2109.33,"body":"definitely ways that you can"},{"startTime":2109.33,"endTime":2114.46,"body":"keep your cat in your life after"},{"startTime":2109.33,"endTime":2114.46,"body":"you're pregnant, and be safe and"},{"startTime":2114.46,"endTime":2116.83,"body":"confident that you're not going"},{"startTime":2114.46,"endTime":2116.83,"body":"to get tuck. So"},{"startTime":2117.49,"endTime":2120.67,"body":"yeah, and it's not like a"},{"startTime":2117.49,"endTime":2120.67,"body":"guarantee, right? It's a risk."},{"startTime":2120.67,"endTime":2123.64,"body":"It's like anything your cat"},{"startTime":2120.67,"endTime":2123.64,"body":"might not have toxo. And so I"},{"startTime":2123.64,"endTime":2126.43,"body":"think, you know, you don't want"},{"startTime":2123.64,"endTime":2126.43,"body":"to cause this widespread panic"},{"startTime":2126.43,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"that you know, every time you"},{"startTime":2126.43,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"get near a litter box, you're"},{"startTime":2128.35,"endTime":2131.32,"body":"gonna be at the risk of getting"},{"startTime":2128.35,"endTime":2131.32,"body":"toxo I think it's just important"},{"startTime":2131.32,"endTime":2133.99,"body":"to know, these are risks that if"},{"startTime":2131.32,"endTime":2133.99,"body":"you have the ability to have"},{"startTime":2133.99,"endTime":2137.8,"body":"someone else, change the litter"},{"startTime":2133.99,"endTime":2137.8,"body":"box, great. If not wear barrier"},{"startTime":2137.8,"endTime":2141.34,"body":"protection, wear masks, just be"},{"startTime":2137.8,"endTime":2141.34,"body":"safe about it. We tell pregnant"},{"startTime":2141.34,"endTime":2145.12,"body":"women not to eat unpasteurized"},{"startTime":2141.34,"endTime":2145.12,"body":"raw cheese, right for risk of"},{"startTime":2145.12,"endTime":2148.96,"body":"listeria infection. We will talk"},{"startTime":2145.12,"endTime":2148.96,"body":"about safe sex, we talked about"},{"startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2151.72,"body":"a lot of things to try to"},{"startTime":2148.96,"endTime":2151.72,"body":"prevent potential diseases that"},{"startTime":2151.72,"endTime":2154.51,"body":"could harm the fetus. So I think"},{"startTime":2151.72,"endTime":2154.51,"body":"it's just one of many, but it"},{"startTime":2154.51,"endTime":2157.54,"body":"doesn't mean that get rid of the"},{"startTime":2154.51,"endTime":2157.54,"body":"cat is probably overkill."},{"startTime":2157.84,"endTime":2161.32,"body":"And you can still go visit"},{"startTime":2157.84,"endTime":2161.32,"body":"Yellowstone National Park if"},{"startTime":2161.32,"endTime":2161.98,"body":"you're pregnant."},{"startTime":2162.34,"endTime":2165.13,"body":"Absolutely. Just stay maybe, you"},{"startTime":2162.34,"endTime":2165.13,"body":"know, just go away from the"},{"startTime":2165.13,"endTime":2169.33,"body":"calcified feces of the Cougars."},{"startTime":2165.13,"endTime":2169.33,"body":"Right? Those are those are not,"},{"startTime":2169.87,"endTime":2171.67,"body":"those are the next."},{"startTime":2172.6,"endTime":2176.41,"body":"One thing I also wanted to point"},{"startTime":2172.6,"endTime":2176.41,"body":"out when it comes to the"},{"startTime":2176.41,"endTime":2180.88,"body":"potential risk of pregnant women"},{"startTime":2176.41,"endTime":2180.88,"body":"acquiring the infection from"},{"startTime":2180.88,"endTime":2186.61,"body":"cats. Cats don't shed toxoplasma"},{"startTime":2180.88,"endTime":2186.61,"body":"consistently, they will only"},{"startTime":2186.61,"endTime":2190.42,"body":"shed the old cysts or the eggs"},{"startTime":2186.61,"endTime":2190.42,"body":"in their feces for approximately"},{"startTime":2190.42,"endTime":2194.86,"body":"10 days after the initial"},{"startTime":2190.42,"endTime":2194.86,"body":"exposure. Oh, interesting. So"},{"startTime":2194.89,"endTime":2198.61,"body":"it's not that a cat you own a"},{"startTime":2194.89,"endTime":2198.61,"body":"cat in its lifetime, it will"},{"startTime":2198.61,"endTime":2203.71,"body":"just shed Oh, is this or eggs,"},{"startTime":2198.61,"endTime":2203.71,"body":"toxoplasmosis. It's just up to"},{"startTime":2203.71,"endTime":2206.98,"body":"10 days after the initial"},{"startTime":2203.71,"endTime":2206.98,"body":"exposure. So the question is,"},{"startTime":2206.98,"endTime":2210.4,"body":"you probably don't know if your"},{"startTime":2206.98,"endTime":2210.4,"body":"cat has been exposed and when"},{"startTime":2210.4,"endTime":2214.48,"body":"and will be exposed. But that's"},{"startTime":2210.4,"endTime":2214.48,"body":"definitely not the concept of"},{"startTime":2214.72,"endTime":2215.86,"body":"lifelong shedding."},{"startTime":2216.16,"endTime":2217.78,"body":"Interesting, interesting."},{"startTime":2217.9,"endTime":2221.56,"body":"And if what you said before is"},{"startTime":2217.9,"endTime":2221.56,"body":"true, Dennis, which is that it"},{"startTime":2221.56,"endTime":2225.49,"body":"takes some time in the"},{"startTime":2221.56,"endTime":2225.49,"body":"environment for toxo to develop"},{"startTime":2225.49,"endTime":2229.0,"body":"the ability to infect a new"},{"startTime":2225.49,"endTime":2229.0,"body":"host, then I mean, as long as"},{"startTime":2229.0,"endTime":2232.75,"body":"you're cleaning up fresh stuff,"},{"startTime":2229.0,"endTime":2232.75,"body":"then changing the litter pretty"},{"startTime":2232.75,"endTime":2235.42,"body":"frequently. Shouldn't that be"},{"startTime":2232.75,"endTime":2235.42,"body":"pretty good? That'd be a pretty"},{"startTime":2235.42,"endTime":2240.01,"body":"good practice, I would say. So"},{"startTime":2235.42,"endTime":2240.01,"body":"it's just can't be old rock hard"},{"startTime":2240.13,"endTime":2240.91,"body":"stuff, right?"},{"startTime":2241.12,"endTime":2244.21,"body":"Yeah. And if you have an indoor"},{"startTime":2241.12,"endTime":2244.21,"body":"cats, and you know that the cat"},{"startTime":2244.21,"endTime":2248.8,"body":"is not going outside eating"},{"startTime":2244.21,"endTime":2248.8,"body":"rodents that are infected, or"},{"startTime":2248.8,"endTime":2252.34,"body":"something like that you at least"},{"startTime":2248.8,"endTime":2252.34,"body":"have a grasp on if your cat will"},{"startTime":2252.34,"endTime":2255.64,"body":"acquire or has acquired the"},{"startTime":2252.34,"endTime":2255.64,"body":"infection. Does that make sense?"},{"startTime":2255.64,"endTime":2256.36,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"startTime":2256.599,"endTime":2260.169,"body":"I have feral cats that live in"},{"startTime":2256.599,"endTime":2260.169,"body":"my backyard. Galveston has a lot"},{"startTime":2260.169,"endTime":2264.309,"body":"of feral cats. But to the point"},{"startTime":2260.169,"endTime":2264.309,"body":"where we always want to advocate"},{"startTime":2264.309,"endTime":2267.519,"body":"for especially people in our"},{"startTime":2264.309,"endTime":2267.519,"body":"area, too. If you have feral"},{"startTime":2267.519,"endTime":2270.609,"body":"cats living in your area, you"},{"startTime":2267.519,"endTime":2270.609,"body":"can call the Humane Society to"},{"startTime":2270.609,"endTime":2273.219,"body":"help with the trap neuter"},{"startTime":2270.609,"endTime":2273.219,"body":"release program where they'll,"},{"startTime":2273.399,"endTime":2276.009,"body":"they'll take the cats and"},{"startTime":2273.399,"endTime":2276.009,"body":"they'll neuter them or spay them"},{"startTime":2276.099,"endTime":2278.919,"body":"to help control the cat"},{"startTime":2276.099,"endTime":2278.919,"body":"population. Because certainly as"},{"startTime":2278.919,"endTime":2281.379,"body":"we see more and more cats, we're"},{"startTime":2278.919,"endTime":2281.379,"body":"potentially going to see"},{"startTime":2281.41,"endTime":2285.22,"body":"one over awesomes can can"},{"startTime":2281.41,"endTime":2285.22,"body":"acquire toxoplasmosis. Gotta get"},{"startTime":2285.22,"endTime":2286.15,"body":"Lucas on the show, buddy?"},{"startTime":2286.18,"endTime":2290.17,"body":"Well, it would be they would be"},{"startTime":2286.18,"endTime":2290.17,"body":"indirect hosts. Right? Because"},{"startTime":2290.17,"endTime":2292.51,"body":"they're warm blooded, but"},{"startTime":2290.17,"endTime":2292.51,"body":"they're not feeling so it would"},{"startTime":2292.51,"endTime":2294.43,"body":"be an indirect house, they can"},{"startTime":2292.51,"endTime":2294.43,"body":"acquire infection, but they"},{"startTime":2294.43,"endTime":2296.5,"body":"wouldn't the parasite wouldn't"},{"startTime":2294.43,"endTime":2296.5,"body":"reproduce."},{"startTime":2296.8,"endTime":2299.02,"body":"That makes sense through"},{"startTime":2296.8,"endTime":2299.02,"body":"Danielle, any closing thoughts?"},{"startTime":2299.02,"endTime":2302.2,"body":"Final thoughts about the paper?"},{"startTime":2299.02,"endTime":2302.2,"body":"Anything else you want to say"},{"startTime":2302.2,"endTime":2303.16,"body":"about it? Yeah, so"},{"startTime":2303.16,"endTime":2306.43,"body":"I just really thought this was"},{"startTime":2303.16,"endTime":2306.43,"body":"the coolest paper ever. And I"},{"startTime":2306.43,"endTime":2309.01,"body":"hope we get to do more little"},{"startTime":2306.43,"endTime":2309.01,"body":"journal clubs. So please,"},{"startTime":2309.01,"endTime":2313.0,"body":"please, please let us know. If"},{"startTime":2309.01,"endTime":2313.0,"body":"you like this kind of style of"},{"startTime":2313.0,"endTime":2315.82,"body":"podcasts, we would love to hear"},{"startTime":2313.0,"endTime":2315.82,"body":"from you. And if you come across"},{"startTime":2315.82,"endTime":2318.76,"body":"any papers or topics that you"},{"startTime":2315.82,"endTime":2318.76,"body":"think are interesting, let us"},{"startTime":2318.76,"endTime":2320.77,"body":"know in the comments or shoot us"},{"startTime":2318.76,"endTime":2320.77,"body":"a message."},{"startTime":2320.92,"endTime":2326.08,"body":"Yep, I agree. I am now much more"},{"startTime":2320.92,"endTime":2326.08,"body":"cognizant of these animal animal"},{"startTime":2326.08,"endTime":2329.5,"body":"dynamics than I ever was before."},{"startTime":2326.08,"endTime":2329.5,"body":"And but it certainly opened up"},{"startTime":2329.5,"endTime":2332.05,"body":"my mind about the role of"},{"startTime":2329.5,"endTime":2332.05,"body":"infections and chronic"},{"startTime":2332.05,"endTime":2334.81,"body":"infections and behavioral or"},{"startTime":2332.05,"endTime":2334.81,"body":"mental health issues. And"},{"startTime":2334.81,"endTime":2337.42,"body":"something I'll be looking out"},{"startTime":2334.81,"endTime":2337.42,"body":"for certainly in patient care."},{"startTime":2337.6,"endTime":2341.2,"body":"I'm not saying I'm gonna test"},{"startTime":2337.6,"endTime":2341.2,"body":"everybody for toxo, who is a CEO"},{"startTime":2341.2,"endTime":2344.59,"body":"or an entrepreneur or risk"},{"startTime":2341.2,"endTime":2344.59,"body":"taker, but it certainly is"},{"startTime":2344.59,"endTime":2346.69,"body":"something that's gotten me"},{"startTime":2344.59,"endTime":2346.69,"body":"thinking about that connection."},{"startTime":2347.2,"endTime":2348.97,"body":"Dennis, any closing ideas?"},{"startTime":2349.21,"endTime":2351.73,"body":"Like I said earlier, I think"},{"startTime":2349.21,"endTime":2351.73,"body":"this is just a very elegant"},{"startTime":2351.73,"endTime":2357.07,"body":"study. I think it's just shows"},{"startTime":2351.73,"endTime":2357.07,"body":"the complexity of all of those"},{"startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2360.31,"body":"life cycles we have in nature"},{"startTime":2357.1,"endTime":2360.31,"body":"and the connection between"},{"startTime":2360.31,"endTime":2364.75,"body":"different species and parasites."},{"startTime":2360.31,"endTime":2364.75,"body":"And yeah, it's just very"},{"startTime":2364.75,"endTime":2367.33,"body":"interesting. So do you think"},{"startTime":2364.75,"endTime":2367.33,"body":"it's still a parasite? Or do you"},{"startTime":2367.33,"endTime":2370.51,"body":"think it's like, what's the"},{"startTime":2367.33,"endTime":2370.51,"body":"commensal? Or what's like, if"},{"startTime":2370.51,"endTime":2373.63,"body":"you have something that somebody"},{"startTime":2370.51,"endTime":2373.63,"body":"yawns Yeah,"},{"startTime":2373.75,"endTime":2375.82,"body":"I don't know. I'm gonna leave"},{"startTime":2373.75,"endTime":2375.82,"body":"that to, you know, the next"},{"startTime":2375.82,"endTime":2378.19,"body":"science fiction movie. Chairman."},{"startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2382.69,"body":"Yeah, I think it's a parasite"},{"startTime":2378.46,"endTime":2382.69,"body":"for now. And so, the"},{"startTime":2382.69,"endTime":2384.67,"body":"parasitologist tell me"},{"startTime":2382.69,"endTime":2384.67,"body":"different."},{"startTime":2385.24,"endTime":2386.89,"body":"I'm gonna defer to the experts."},{"startTime":2386.89,"endTime":2390.37,"body":"Yes, that one Paris, Paris"},{"startTime":2386.89,"endTime":2390.37,"body":"otologist. Please comment in the"},{"startTime":2391.03,"endTime":2393.16,"body":"in the in the comment section."},{"startTime":2391.03,"endTime":2393.16,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":2393.22,"endTime":2395.83,"body":"Well, thanks all for tuning in."},{"startTime":2393.22,"endTime":2395.83,"body":"This has been a lot of fun. We"},{"startTime":2395.83,"endTime":2398.65,"body":"all we have some other ideas for"},{"startTime":2395.83,"endTime":2398.65,"body":"papers we want to talk about"},{"startTime":2398.89,"endTime":2401.29,"body":"other topics if there's top If"},{"startTime":2398.89,"endTime":2401.29,"body":"you'd like to hear about, please"},{"startTime":2401.29,"endTime":2405.91,"body":"go ahead and drop us an email,"},{"startTime":2401.29,"endTime":2405.91,"body":"send us a message. And we are"},{"startTime":2405.91,"endTime":2408.97,"body":"always interested in hearing"},{"startTime":2405.91,"endTime":2408.97,"body":"about topics that might be of"},{"startTime":2408.97,"endTime":2412.03,"body":"interest to you the listener. So"},{"startTime":2408.97,"endTime":2412.03,"body":"thanks for tuning in. Thank you."},{"startTime":2412.39,"endTime":2413.14,"body":"Bye bye bye."},{"startTime":2414.28,"endTime":2418.57,"body":"Don't let the name West Nile"},{"startTime":2414.28,"endTime":2418.57,"body":"virus tricky. Outbreaks of this"},{"startTime":2418.57,"endTime":2422.41,"body":"fire has happened all across the"},{"startTime":2418.57,"endTime":2422.41,"body":"United States and even in Texas."},{"startTime":2422.86,"endTime":2427.78,"body":"According to the CDC, there were"},{"startTime":2422.86,"endTime":2427.78,"body":"almost 2700 cases in the United"},{"startTime":2427.78,"endTime":2433.99,"body":"States and 77 cases in Texas in"},{"startTime":2427.78,"endTime":2433.99,"body":"2021. It's transmitted through"},{"startTime":2433.99,"endTime":2437.62,"body":"mosquitoes, which means where"},{"startTime":2433.99,"endTime":2437.62,"body":"your insect repellent during the"},{"startTime":2437.62,"endTime":2441.91,"body":"summer and fall months, one in"},{"startTime":2437.62,"endTime":2441.91,"body":"five people develop symptoms"},{"startTime":2441.91,"endTime":2445.96,"body":"such as fevers, rash, and"},{"startTime":2441.91,"endTime":2445.96,"body":"headaches. But some people can"},{"startTime":2445.96,"endTime":2450.64,"body":"develop serious symptoms such as"},{"startTime":2445.96,"endTime":2450.64,"body":"convulsions, vision, loss and"},{"startTime":2450.64,"endTime":2454.96,"body":"paralysis. Seven Texans died"},{"startTime":2450.64,"endTime":2454.96,"body":"last year to the West Nile"},{"startTime":2454.96,"endTime":2459.91,"body":"virus. There are no vaccines or"},{"startTime":2454.96,"endTime":2459.91,"body":"cures. So prevention is our best"},{"startTime":2459.94,"endTime":2464.5,"body":"solution. And now, you know"},{"startTime":2459.94,"endTime":2464.5,"body":"about the West Nile virus. This"},{"startTime":2464.5,"endTime":2465.67,"body":"has been a viral minute."},{"startTime":2467.59,"endTime":2470.44,"body":"Thanks for listening to the"},{"startTime":2467.59,"endTime":2470.44,"body":"infectious Science Podcast. Be"},{"startTime":2470.44,"endTime":2473.8,"body":"sure to hit subscribe and visit"},{"startTime":2470.44,"endTime":2473.8,"body":"infectious science.org to join"},{"startTime":2473.8,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"the conversation, access the"},{"startTime":2473.8,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"show notes and to sign up for"},{"startTime":2476.29,"endTime":2478.18,"body":"our newsletter and receive our"},{"startTime":2476.29,"endTime":2478.18,"body":"free materials."},{"startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2481.6,"body":"If you enjoyed this new episode"},{"startTime":2478.48,"endTime":2481.6,"body":"of infectious science, please"},{"startTime":2481.6,"endTime":2484.84,"body":"leave us a review on Apple"},{"startTime":2481.6,"endTime":2484.84,"body":"podcasts and Spotify and go"},{"startTime":2484.84,"endTime":2486.97,"body":"ahead and share this episode"},{"startTime":2484.84,"endTime":2486.97,"body":"with some of your friends."},{"startTime":2487.24,"endTime":2489.73,"body":"Also, don't hesitate to ask"},{"startTime":2487.24,"endTime":2489.73,"body":"questions and tell us what"},{"startTime":2489.73,"endTime":2492.64,"body":"topics you'd like us to cover"},{"startTime":2489.73,"endTime":2492.64,"body":"for future episodes. To get in"},{"startTime":2492.64,"endTime":2495.16,"body":"touch, drop a line in the"},{"startTime":2492.64,"endTime":2495.16,"body":"comment section or send us a"},{"startTime":2495.16,"endTime":2496.36,"body":"message on social media."},{"startTime":2496.48,"endTime":2498.7,"body":"So we'll see you next time for a"},{"startTime":2496.48,"endTime":2498.7,"body":"new episode. And in the"},{"startTime":2498.7,"endTime":2502.33,"body":"meantime, stay happy stay"},{"startTime":2498.7,"endTime":2502.33,"body":"healthy. stay interested"}]}