Greg Yuel's Strategy for Success in Investment and Business

Imagine a C student becoming the head of a successful investment group. Sounds impossible doesn't it? Well, our guest on this episode, Greg Yuel, the president and CEO of PIC Investment Group, not only did that, but he also juggles his professional life with his involvement with the Saskatchewan Roughriders, the Edwards School of Business Board and numerous other community endeavors. Greg takes us through his journey, the challenges he faced, and the triumphs he celebrated on his way to the top. Listen in for an inspiring story filled with valuable insights for anyone aspiring to make it big in business.

Strategy is a significant element of entrepreneurship, and Greg knows it better than anyone else. We look at how he transitioned from loading trucks in his family's business to formulating the strategy that underpins PIC Investment Group's success. All this while sticking to his mantra of narrowing efforts within his circle of competence. We also delve into details of his investment strategy where he shares how he created an effective database of investments and the importance of data analysis for informed decision-making. 

Running a successful business isn't a cakewalk; it's a journey of tough decisions, failures, and lots of lessons. Greg throws light on the importance of self-leadership, the value of listening, and the need for diverse strengths in an organization. He emphasizes that it's not failure that defines you, but how you bounce back from it. Wrapping up with some profound insights on self-leadership and the art of listening, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and practical advice. So tune in, whether you're a budding entrepreneur or an established business leader, there's a lot to learn from Greg's inspiring journey!

Mackenzie Kilshaw Co. offers comprehensive business coaching, and consulting tailored to your needs.  

With Mackenzie's award winning entrepreneurial expertise in strategy, leadership, business development, branding, website development, social media management, SEO, sales and customer service training and more, clients receive personalized guidance to drive growth and success. 

Let's make your business unforgettable!

We are looking for Sponsors for our show! 

We have a variety of sponsorship packages to suit every business and budget. 

If you have a business that you would like to promote to thousands of people, send us an email at podcastwinning@gmail.com or message us through Facebook or Instagram.

Chapters

• 1:19 Winning in Business
• 7:39 Entrepreneurship, Success, and Growth Strategy
• 17:00 Investment Strategy and Data Analysis
• 24:21 Running a Successful Business, Tough Decisions
• 33:49 Learn From Failure in Business
• 43:24 Lessons on Self-Leadership and Listening

Transcript

Shauna Foster: 1:19

Winning is your guide to making it in business. Join our award-winning host and entrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw, and special guests in casual conversations that will educate and inspire you on your business journey. Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the easy way, with guidance from celebrated entrepreneurs and business leaders. It's fun, it's informative, it's winning.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 1:45

Welcome to Winning. I am your host, Mackenzie Kilshaw, and today's guest is Greg. Yo al h, hi Greg.

Greg Yuel: 1:50

Hi, how are you?

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 1:51

I'm really good. How are you? Good? Good. So Greg and I were just chatting before this recording started. We were actually in Halifax this summer with the Saskatchewan Roughriders and just going over how awesome that trip was. But, Greg, really great to have you on.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 2:10

A little bit about Greg. Greg is the president and CEO of PIC Investment Group. He is responsible for investment decisions, operational management, growth, profitability of the group. It's got eight operating companies and 25 minority investments. Greg, speaking of the Rough iders, you are the lead governor to the CFL of the Rough iders. You're also on the Edwards School of Business board, I believe. Yep, so Greg does tons of stuff in the community and it's really a pleasure to have you on. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're welcome. So I've known Greg for a few years and I've always been wowed by all that you do because you're so involved in the community. Like I said, you've got eight operating companies and 25 minority investments. So it's wowed to me that you can keep up with everything and we're going to talk a lot today about running your organizations and how you can be more efficient doing that. But do you want to just give the listeners a little overview of who you are? A little bit, maybe more than what I said. S.

Greg Yuel: 3:21

Okay, just some guy basically grew up in Saskatoon, on the west side of Saskatoon in a lovely community called Massey Place. That was, I say, probably an emerging community. The elementary school Vincent Massey that I went to was kind on the edge of town as I started kindergarten there and grew up in a family business, so PIC Investment Group. Pic stands for Prairie Industrial Chemicals. So when I was about six years old and my mom and dad quit their jobs and started this water treatment chemical distribution business located on the prairies so Prairie Industrial Chemicals, and that's the family business that I grew up in.

Greg Yuel: 4:11

So being a warehouse rat and just loading trucks and working in the summers, working after school when I was in high school, for the most part loading trucks, but also we packaged chlorine, we made bleach, we put all kinds of things in bags and in drums and sent them out. So over the course of time I did pretty much every job that there is to do in that business and then went to university for a long time, probably five or six years. I was a fantastic C student.

Greg Yuel: 4:54

So, struggled and struggled to finish my degree while I was playing football for the Saskatoon Hilltop Football Club. And then, upon graduating, the business Prairie Industrial Chemicals, which had become a conglomerate from the mid-70s, 1976 on through to 1990, then had been broken up into three operating companies Panther Industries, Prairie Chem, which is now called ClearTech, so we'll use the word ClearTech from now on. So then ClearTech is that original water treatment chemical distribution business, and then Panther Industries and then our real estate holding company that the real estate was in for those operating companies and the trucking business was peeled out in order to purchase K Transport from the K family. So that happened, and that's where PIC Investment Group was created at that point, breaking up the conglomerate and putting it into a holding company with operating companies. And then we purchased K Transport from the K family in 1991, I think, maybe 1992.

Greg Yuel: 6:12

And I graduated university, finally, in 1993, and upon doing so went over to work for K Transport and work for our managing partner. So we had a 25% partner in K Transport and so I went over to work for him, being an administrator and the safety guy and putting together packages for hiring and for discipline and for all of the different regulations that were just coming into effect in the industry. So there you go Off. I was at K Transport and did that with my lovely girlfriend and then we ended up getting married, having kids, getting a house, restoring it, doing all of that stuff in Edmonton. And then I came home to Saskatoon in 2000, late 99 actually and came back to Saskatoon with my family Olivia and the kids and started working with my dad at PIC Investment Group and really it was with the notion of taking the business over, buying the business, doing something like that. So there you go, yada, yada, yada.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 7:27

Yeah, I think you just summed up a few decades into a minute. did you always want Did get into the family business?

Greg Yuel: 7:39

That's an interesting thing and each of my kids, as I watched them and maybe still do watched them kind of wonder about what they're going to do with their career, and certainly as they were leaving high school and going into post-secondary and just kind of wondering what they were going to do with their career and when they would ask it.

Greg Yuel: 7:56

I'm so sorry, I really can't help you, because I always knew what I wanted to do. I literally remember when I was that six-year-old kid and watching my dad interact with a group of employees in a situation it was actually, I actually remember it. It was in a field and it was during a wellhead blowout, on a brine, well, and just watching him be in charge, and I just I always knew I want to be that guy, that's the guy I want to be, and if that guy is a business owner, that's what I want to be. I want to be the business owner. So I really knew all along and I would say, therefore, everything I did was in service of trying to achieve that goal of being a business owner.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 8:43

Yeah, and that's really cool, because a lot of people that come from a family of entrepreneurs and business owners it goes either way, right. They're like I want to do this or I never wanted to do that. , dad was an entrepreneur. Same thing like back in the day, when that wasn't like a thing, where now I feel like people are like I want to start my own business when they're teenagers, right, yeah, yeah, it was a different world then. So it's really cool that you followed in his footsteps and you're really good at it too. Thanks, I would say that for real. Fine, but I know you're so experienced and you really know what you're doing and I think probably that's partly from watching your dad, right.

Greg Yuel: 9:29

Yeah, yeah. And you know, the other thing is it's partly attributed to is sticking to my knitting Is like I know the tools that I have in my toolbox and I know which tools are sharp and therefore I also know what tools I do not have or which tools are getting dull, and I go and get that expertise from those experts with those tools. And I don't pretend ever to be the smartest person in the room, that's for sure.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 10:04

And you know, yeah, good for me for having been a C student and having to struggle like hell and work my ass off to get mediocre grades, because, yeah, I think that, too, when you are a small business owner, large business owner, entrepreneur, never in that realm A lot of us and I know for me, when I first started in my head I'm like I just have to do everything, because I have to just start out, you know, not spending a lot of money or figuring things out so that I know. And then you quickly realize, wow, I should not be doing my books because I don't really know how I should be doing my books and I'm better off to have somebody else do that. Right, that's knowledgeable in that area.

Greg Yuel: 10:48

You bet, I agree completely.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 10:50

Yeah. So for I think recognizing that is kind of the first step and like when you said you don't have all of the tools, it's really getting the people that have those tools so that you can excel.

Greg Yuel: 11:01

Yeah, and there it is about the figure and you really hit the nail on the head about the figuring things out, like it is worth the effort and the time and the work and the exhaustive work to figure things out to the point that you know whether you want to learn it or not, or figure it out enough to know that you can find someone that is an expert in that and they'll do it. But at least you've got a fundamental understanding of what you're asking them for, what you're hiring them for.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 11:31

Yeah, for sure, and I think it really is important too that you do know kind of at least the basics of finance, marketing, accounting, hr, right, so that you're somewhat knowledgeable and you don't have to be an expert, of course, but having those basic pieces so, a, you can understand it and, b, you're right, so that you can hire a person be able to explain, or when they tell you something you get it.

Greg Yuel: 11:56

Yeah, yeah, right, absolutely essential yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 11:59

Yeah, okay, so you have obviously your companies have grown, you have more companies and investments and everything else, and I know that you have a really great growth strategy. So can you kind of explain what that strategy or method is?

Greg Yuel: 12:17

Sure. So I'll say maybe an interesting way to put it is the strategy we have now, which was we recast, rebaked or put into place with myself and a couple of others, then those of us and our leadership team at PIC Investment Group, and then rolled out with our leadership team to everyone at PIC Investment Group and we'll say at least the next generation are what we hope to be, the next generation of leaders of PIC Investment Group. So the total PIC Investment Group is about 12 people, maybe 14. That's our family office. So, having worked through that exercise in COVID times, using that opportunity to work through the exercise of trying to understand what we had been good at, what we are good at, and then back to my comment before about sticking to our knitting as an organization, and actually the analogy that I use is narrowing our efforts to be within our circle of competence. So if you are a baseball softball player, you've got a strike zone and in that strike zone you could put every single baseball softball side by side by side, stacked from your knees to your shoulders and whatever the width is across the plate, and you could see where every single pitch could potentially be thrown into that strike zone.

Greg Yuel: 14:00

So we had, I'll say, for the first 20 years, maybe the first 18 years we did a lot of what I would say chicken feeding. So we would just look at something and take a shot at it and we're paying a lot of attention to the size of the investment and the amount of effort that it would take, certainly in the first 10 years of my efforts to build what we have. And I'll go back to the point, which is that the strategy that we baked was to not just take swings at balls thrown within the strike zone, but to only take swings at the balls that are thrown in our strike zone where we've hit our home runs. So that's great advice Really dialing in to exactly where we get our best success and only swinging at those pitches, regardless of whether they're in the strike zone or not, or beside something or above something or below something that we've hit a home run at. We're just taking our swings at stuff where we've hit home runs and that has freed our team and freed our time and made us so much more efficient, because we're so much more efficient at saying no to stuff that doesn't fit.

Greg Yuel: 15:43

Our thesis is one of the terms that we have and we attack stuff. That does fit our thesis because luckily this week I said to a couple of groups we would be remiss if we did not look into this because it ticks all of the boxes that we say we're interested in. So we're going to do some work and make an effort and look into this and we'll let you know. So that clarity has been very valuable for us, but I think perhaps we had to just have lack of clarity and feed chickens for the first 10 or so years. So you had data to analyze.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 16:25

Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. So do you have a list of criteria or how do you say okay, this fits into this home run area.

Greg Yuel: 16:38

Yeah, so that was that strategy that we constructed over the course of three fairly full day sessions, and how we constructed it is maybe just as interesting as the result or the list itself that we ended up with. And so how we constructed it was we have, like I'm a record keeper. Lori Demetrician is a record keeper, like we. When she started, she created a database of all of the investments that we had ever made, and so then she and I went back and I looked at all of the investments that we PIC Investment Group, and therefore my dad or I had ever made, and then we populated the database with information that caused us to determine whether it was a success, whether it was a failure. We looked back in records, we found out what the articles of incorporation of the company were, what our investment was, we calculated our return on investment, what we populated our database fields so that we could look back and look at the couple of hundred or more investment efforts that we've made. Plus, lori began taking record yeah, keeping record of stuff that we spent time on and passed on. But again, we're curious about and we wanted to follow that group and follow that company so that we could see if we passed on it. Did it succeed? Did it fail by whatever our measures were of success and failure? And by analyzing all of that data, we put everything up on a board that we'd ever done. We then did a bit of a kangaroo court where we then the group of us sort of voted on was that a success or was that a failure? Because sometimes just getting your money back can be a spectacular success. That will cause you to put a big smiley face beside it, and sometimes making a little bit of money off of an investment that monetarily looks like it should be in a success category gets a little stormy cloud because it costs you so much money to finally liquidate that investment and get a little bit of a return out. So there you go. So it caused us to say we are going to invest in and now I'm just kind of looking at my record here that I have of this on my phone, where I took the picture of it on the big whiteboard in the boardroom and because, in case this would happen, so we look to invest in two platforms. So platform A would be it's an operating company, therefore we're in control. So it's 50% and up, including 66, and 2 thirds end up or 100%, but it's above 50%, so we have control. Therefore it would be an operating company. So that's platform one.

Greg Yuel: 19:33

Platform two is within our minority investment pool, of which you made reference to, like the 25 minority investments, and in that case, in those minority investments, there's one of two scenarios Either we have put together a syndicate and are therefore kind of the lead partner of a syndicate that we've created and that we control of people whom we know and we love and we trust, or be a syndicate was put together that we are a part of and that syndicate was put together and includes partners whom we know and we love and we trust.

Greg Yuel: 20:16

I decided through this process that we didn't actually need to meet anybody new from now on, that between the six of us on our leadership team boy, if we don't know them, not interested Just don't need to meet anybody new anymore.

Greg Yuel: 20:31

And so then the next point is that we make that investment in platform one or platform two only if a couple of scenarios, only if we can see that we will double our money or we'll get back four times our money over the term of the lifetime of that investment.

Greg Yuel: 20:51

So we have to have a minimum measure of return on investment for it to be worthwhile. And then there's an investment is only made in those sectors that we identified, where we hit our home runs in the strike zone, and that's the three or four industries that our operating companies reside in, which is chemical distribution, niche, transportation, real estate and perhaps insurance. We're insurance we're still wondering about. We're still very new in the insurance world, so we're not sure of how successful it is yet. So one of the industries that our operating companies reside in and our operating companies all reside in one of those industries and Ag and Health. We identified that our wild successes were from Ag and Health investments and our ones that we struggled or failed at were in anything else other than an industry that we are investing in.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 21:59

Yeah, so there you go. So I guess, to sum this up, you're collecting a lot of data along the way of everything, even what you didn't do, which I think is a really important trait, because I think a lot of times we say, oh, I'm gonna keep a record of this because it worked out well, but we forget about the stuff that didn't Right.

Greg Yuel: 22:22

And stuff we passed on. That worked out well.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 22:25

Yeah, exactly, you did your homework right. You did a lot of research on, obviously, all of these companies, the industries and whatnot, and then you strategize from there. And I think it's really interesting too that you stick within those core industries. Yeah, because I think, like, do you ever something, ever come along that somebody's like you should invest in this, and it looked really great, but you're like no, just say just no, just a hard no. Because, it wasn't in those core.

Greg Yuel: 23:01

Yeah, I mean, you're asking a question that goes over a long piece of time and the inbounds are six of us on our leadership team, so any one of the six of us could. But the answer to your question at the end of the day is yeah, there will be lots of stuff. And it's particularly lately since like 2020, 2021, when we put this strategic process in place that it becomes way easier to say no. And the frustrating one is and another one came up this week where there was something that I really liked and like it. Just. You know, like it just. It had a good feel to it, it looks like it looks good. I am going to end up doing some work on it on myself.

Greg Yuel: 23:40

On the weekend, I did meet with the three partners of this business, but two of our leadership team had to point out that it just doesn't fit our investment thesis. So why are we? You know, Greg, how much time do you want us to spend on this? Because it just doesn't tick nearly enough boxes. So it's too bad, because it'll be one that I'll look forward to following. Because if I was on my own and maybe that's another good point to this if I was on my own, I would chase that. I would chase that little penny rolling down the road. And that is how you can get into a ton of trouble and stretch yourself too thin.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 24:22

Also true and I think that this advice and your kind of strategy and the way you do this is great really for any business like I. Just as you're talking, I'm thinking about when I own my clothing store and I'm thinking because people used to come in and be like you should carry men's clothes, you should carry kids clothes you should carry home decor.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 24:42

You should carry, you know. And then you're like, should I? And you start thinking about it. And then you're like, okay, but fundamentally I was really catering to women and yeah, I know lots of women buy their husbands clothes, but that wasn't my lane, so I just never. I didn't do it, you know, and so I think that this advice is great for anyone with a business. It's really, you know, you want to be diverse, but also you have to stay within what you're really good at. Yeah discipline.

Greg Yuel: 25:14

And that takes discipline. And it's so interesting cause the entrepreneurial mindset is certainly one of being open to a large amount of possibilities and sort of the optimism bias that anything is possible. Otherwise, like, why the hell would you start your own business my God, it's craziest thing in the world to do and then 100% and then apply discipline to your efforts is almost counterintuitive.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 25:41

Yeah, well, it's true, but it has to make sense. Yeah, the thing that it just has to make sense, right? So I think that's fantastic advice. Yeah, okay, I know that one time you and I were chatting and visiting about business and just in general, and you had mentioned that you had different people in your organizations, different people running the organizations. So it's not just you and kind of telling other people you know what to do, or that sort of thing, but really let's chat about why it's important to have multiple people running your organization, or, if you have more than one, why that's important.

Greg Yuel: 26:24

Okay, and interestingly, the answer to your question for we'll say whoever the audience is is I'll start my first answer is it may not be important. So back to your point. I mean, there are some retailers whom I just admire, like Janice Fanyu and Outer Limits and my goodness, what a fabulous retailer. And the Scheibelhofer boys and Close Cafe, like wow. And then Greg no, Guy Blanchett is still out there and I'm not sure if it's Sonar or F2 or what the business is still called these guys who've been at it forever.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 27:03

And Decades, decades.

Greg Yuel: 27:06

And Janice and what she's done for outdoor enthusiasts and the brands and Patagonia and Kool, and like she's just done as such, and she's one of the first people, she's the first person that brought in the blow up paddleboards I mean like just what she's done and like that's, as you remember, a retailer. Like maybe the maybe? My answer is it doesn't. You don't want a bunch of people running your business. You want to bring your idea to your market and have others see what you saw and believe the story boys and escape. That's the craziest thing that anybody has ever done in this town is create that crazy business that shouldn't have worked in a million years. And they got people and it does. And kite surfing and Saskatoon on the river when I walked home, like it's, they're beautiful guys, so like it?

Greg Yuel: 28:01

Maybe the answer is it doesn't, unless you want to grow beyond the capability of one person to be the hub, with all of those spokes of decision that you had to make as a retailer about every single thing, about what color the toilet paper is going to be in the bathroom, and I the guts that you guys have when you're sitting at the buying shows in February to pick something that is going to be sold in July is. That is risk. That's crazy. To put your money down and write your check and say that I'm going to buy like $50,000, $100,000 worth of product that I think is going to be able to be sold in my market this summer you guys are out of your mind.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 28:49

Well, it was a challenge. I'll say h, the hardest part was sticking to your budget. Yeah, cause there were always things that you're like, oh, I really want to try that, but then do you stick with the safe thing or do you try the thing that's a little outside? Yeah, cause you have to try those things. Yeah.

Greg Yuel: 29:07

To see if they work. That's right. And then like, what guts? Like that is guts and I'm gutless. Like I've grown a big business so that I can put all the smart people in the room and I'm just the head coach, right? So I'm the head coach and I got all those assistant coaches and they're all the leaders of their group and they know what's best for their group. And then all the differences of opinions and different ideas that everybody has, those all get thrown on the table and then I can just sift through them and see which ideas float up to the top that have the least amount of argument against them from the other pessimists that are in the room and just hopefully pick the best of the ideas that have been socialized by everybody and that we've batted around and ping ponged around the table. That's boy, I'm lazy. Like that's actually pretty easy. I'm just going to give you some ideas.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 30:05

You know it's a great idea, we're only doing it, hey, but I think it goes back to what we talked to, one at the very beginning too, about how you know, like if you don't really know much about marketing, probably you shouldn't be doing marketing. Yeah, right, I mean, let the expert in the marketing field do the marketing. Yeah, and yeah, like, maybe you have final say or you say I think I like this better or that better, whatever it is. Like you said, pick your, pick things. Yeah, but I do agree that it's important to have all those different ideas, because all different people, different personalities, different strengths can really bring things that maybe you, as the leader, would have never thought about. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, and that's a pitfall and a strength, I think. Yeah, in a sense. Yeah, but you have more ideas or more possibilities, opportunities.

Shauna Foster: 31:04

Yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 31:05

Yeah Cool, which I think is it's hard. I mean, I when I first started I did everything and after about a year, honestly I was exhausted, because you can't do everything. You can't.

Greg Yuel: 31:18

No.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 31:18

You know, and so I started delegating things that I'm like oh, this person on my team is really good at this. Yeah, and I can't. You're now responsible for this. This is your. You're the manager of this area.

Greg Yuel: 31:30

Yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 31:31

Right, and then it was off of my plate and then moved on and lots of times just asking them what do you think we should do with this Right? What do you know? What are people asking for? Right, it was mean to your clients too, yeah, and then going from there, and that, I think, is really important. And I think, too, when you're talking about all those successful business owners in our province, they probably do that with their team too. Yeah, yeah, you know, they're the face.

Greg Yuel: 31:58

They must, that's right. They must, yeah, yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 32:02

They're the face, that's right, but they're probably not picking up the toilet paper. That's right, right, yeah, even though you think they are.

Greg Yuel: 32:08

Unless they want to, unless it's their job.

Shauna Foster: 32:10

Unless they want to.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 32:11

Exactly, exactly, no, it's so true. Yeah, so true, yeah, okay. Another thing I wanted to chat about was when things don't work out yeah, but that you've had some things that didn't work out, yeah, you've had to close business, yeah, so how do you make that decision? How does that happen?

Greg Yuel: 32:34

Yeah Well, you know, the one thing that makes it easy to make the decision is when something is losing money and it's losing money, and it's losing money and I'll say you've tried, or we've tried, I've tried everything that I can and applied all of the tricks that I thought were the winning solutions, and it's just not, it's just clearly not going to reverse itself, there isn't progress being made, there isn't gains Then that makes that decision become very easy. You just at some point have to pick at what point is enough enough. And that's interesting. And I'll say now at what point is enough enough. That is also pretty interesting because that can apply to our minority investments, where we're not going to help them anymore. And that's why we've applied operating companies and we've had a couple, at least a very spectacular fails in our operating companies.

Greg Yuel: 33:50

And it is when the management will say, when management is not listening, when management is pretending that they're listening but they're not putting into action what you ask them to do, it's like, hey, I've got some tricks up my sleeve, I've got some tools that are sharp, I need you to do this.

Greg Yuel: 34:09

And when I find myself having to do the things that I am asking them management or my partner if it's a minority investment when I find myself having to actually do the things that I had been asking them to do. The dominoes have started to fall and it is only a matter of time that they are not going to exist anymore in some way. Either the business is not going to exist, we're going to stop it. So you know, at the end of the day, you just you know when the switch gets flipped and that you realize that you've done everything you can and there's nothing more that you can do. And for that I beg people to make the decision and take the action to kill the thing instantly as soon as that switch is flipped. Then, as fast as possible, just kill the thing, get out of it and do whatever you've got to do to just make it stop. Yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 35:14

Yeah, and I think too. I mean, I sold my businesses so I got to leave in a great way. But I do have friends and no other people that had similar experiences that had to close, and I know a lot of their struggle was their self. Right, it was I failed, I couldn't make this work. It's my fault. I let people down, whatever it is, and I think we have to start looking at that in the reverse.

Greg Yuel: 35:48

Yeah, right, and I'm back to this a couple of times and I'm just I can't believe I'm saying this yet again, but like good for me for having been a C student and having really stopped academically all through my career, because I have failed way more times than I've succeeded and and it's just such a relief to know that you can yeah, that you can fail math one or two, three times before finally passing it, but you still passed and you got your degree and you left.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 36:19

And you probably never have looked at everything that. You did math one or two every day, so it doesn't matter. I took math 101 and I think the failure rate was like 45% or something. It was like it wasn't good, but it's true, though, because we look at that as a failure truly, but it really we should look at it more as a learning opportunity or, like you say, collect the data right and why didn't this work? And we're not going to do that again. Yeah, yeah.

Greg Yuel: 36:51

Failure doesn't define you. What you do after you fail is what defines you.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 36:57

I love that quote.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 36:57

I think that's going to be a social media post because it's so true, because I think we really take that to heart, because for most of us, our business is kind of like a baby right, it's like you, you're taking care of it and growing it and you're responsible for it, and then, if it doesn't work, you just take on all of that weight of it's my fault. That's right, and I think we have to change that because it's exactly right. It's what you do afterwards that matters. Yeah, yeah, what you learned from it. Yeah, yeah, that's great advice, thank you. And honestly, I would have never known until you told me when it's like oh, I had lots of stuff that didn't work out, what great did. Like it doesn't I know, but in my, in my head, you're such a great business person that I was like well, you wouldn't have have invested in something that didn't work or you wouldn't have. But sometimes everything lines up great and you do it, but it still doesn't work. Yeah, and that's just the way it goes, right, it's just the way it goes.

Greg Yuel: 38:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need great people, you need a great idea, you need to execute it great, and the market still may not like you. That's right. Customers may be completely disinterested for no reason that obviously you could have fathomed when you started or you wouldn't have done it.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 38:26

Yeah, exactly, yeah, well, and sometimes it's timing yeah, you might have had a great idea, but the timing wasn't right. That's right, yeah, or? Sometimes it's something out of your control, Covid.

Greg Yuel: 38:39

Totally Yep.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 38:41

So you started businesses in like January of 2020.

Greg Yuel: 38:44

Yeah, Holy moly, hey, right yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 38:48

And then COVID hit in March and they never reopened that's right, you know, because they didn't get the government subsidies and whatnot, because they weren't open long enough. Yeah, like real previous sales. Yeah, and you just, it's heartbreaking, but that's out of your control. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.

Greg Yuel: 39:06

So is it more heartbreaking when it is in your control? I go back to you, crazy retailers, and buying like 200 grand worth of stuff or 100 grand worth of stuff because it looks like a super good idea and it looks like the next T Y Beanie baby, and then you're going to mark it up to percent, you're going to try and get, you're going to have your leftovers. I mean, you know, hopefully everybody appreciates how retailing works and why the markup is because you have all this crap left over at the end of the season that nobody wants next year in any case. And so you pick this thing, yeah, and like you picked with all of your experience and knowledge and market intuition, and it sits on the shelf and you don't sell any of it. Yeah, that happened. Is that harder than when outside circumstances that could not have been foreseen happen and you're stuck.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 39:59

Yeah, you know, I kind of looked at it because I would. The weirdest things happen in retail, especially retail If anyone's listening to this in their retail or going into retail. It's a bizarre world. I don't even know how else to talk about it. But you take risks on certain things because you have to try something. You can't just carry the especially for me women's clothing store. I can't just carry the exact same thing all the time because my clients that shop with me they're like well, I have that, that's right.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 40:26

Right. So you have to take risks. You maybe try a new line or you bring in something that you never tried before and you do it exactly like how you said before. It's kind of an educated risk. I don't just say, oh yeah, I'm just going to spend $20,000 on that and we'll see what happens. Okay, who do I think might buy it? What price point is it at? Are people going to spend the money on that? There's a lot of factors that you do. You take the risk and sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't. And then you're selling those items on sale and then eventually you have a super sale rack where items are $400 items or 50 bucks just to get rid of them. But it happened the opposite way too, where it was things that I had sold and sold and sold and sold and did really well and I'm like okay, next year I'm going to double that order. Okay, and they double the order.

Greg Yuel: 41:18

And it stopped.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 41:19

And it stopped. And how could?

Greg Yuel: 41:22

that happen, oh goodness Right.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 41:25

But so in both ways and I think, just like that's what we talked to before, it's collecting that data and it's doing your homework and your research on things and creating a strategy, because some things are going to really be successful and some things aren't, and you just have to learn from the ones that aren't and move along. The last thing that I sold, that I took a risk on I'll say a risk was a very expensive but was masks for COVID. So soon as I could reopen, right before I could reopen, one of my distributors emailed and said hey, we're selling masks. Do you want someone? Do I want to invest in masks? And then, in quote unquote two months, we're back to normal. You know it would be three years, right, but so I thought I'll give it a shot and I'll order. I think I ordered like 20.

Greg Yuel: 42:16

Yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 42:16

And they were cool, they were like pretty and fashionable masks, right, and I ordered 20 and I think in two days they were sold out. Yeah, and I was like okay, well, I ordered 20 more.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 42:27

Good for you, because we could just order 20 more and like they're gone. Yeah. And then I started doing pre-orders for them. Yeah, because I'm like do I order 100 or am I going to get stuck with them? So I did a pre-order, which was safe because I could show people pictures and say which one do you want? Good for you, right, yeah. And so I did it in a strategic way. Yeah, and I mean I should look back at my data. But like I sold hundreds of masks, hundreds in that time you were always careful with the process and they were.

Greg Yuel: 42:57

You got caught in musical chairs.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 42:59

Well, that's the thing, right, yeah, and at that point, all of a sudden, if you don't need to wear a mask anymore, what the heck do I do with all these masks? Yeah, you know, yeah, and I did it at the end, I think, because I ended up selling and moving and doing all this stuff in 2021. So we were a year to a year in and I did have a handful left, yeah, and I donated them when I left. So, at the end of the day, I felt okay about it and they weren't a high investment item, right, yeah, good point, so it was fine, but that was one of those things that I really had to shadow drys on, so I didn't get stuck, yeah, burned, right, yeah, yeah, do you have a most important lesson that you can share, something that you've learned in your years that has really impacted you?

Greg Yuel: 43:58

That is a super good trick question. I know it's very loaded. Yeah, lead yourself. Yeah, that's really it. It just comes down to and we have built so much around so much training around PIC, investment group, pic group or PIC group operating companies about leading yourself. So we started down a path of cohorts in tribal leadership, which was a book that affected me a lot because it really spoke to me. It was exactly like I just thought this is exactly me and I'm four fifths of the way doing this already. Holy cow, this is just great. And so we found the writers of the book, the authors of the book and their consultancy.

Greg Yuel: 44:45

Business and tribal leadership and all of the different training that we provide to any employee in PIC group operating companies is about learning to lead yourself, and that is good because anybody can any my kid can, like anybody can learn to lead yourself and then you can begin to learn how to lead others, because if you don't know yourself, then don't make yourself head coach of something yet. Like, really learn to lead yourself before you start to learn how to lead others. And that is probably my best lesson. That would be my life's work would be that Learn about myself as much as possible, and every day I do, and then that just assists me in learning how to lead others.

Greg Yuel: 45:37

And then, once you're and anyone in an organization can be in a position to lead others it doesn't have to be magical. I mean, like at every different level. Like you know, there's, there's, you know, even our small office. We've got what I would call like a social club, and one of the ladies started going for walks this summer and grab the rest of the people in the office with her, and there it is. Thank you, yeah, exactly. Everyone comes back fresh and happy and like, there it is, there's the example, yeah.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 46:11

That's great advice, and is there anything that you had wished you had known? Or maybe wish you knew earlier, or give your younger self that piece.

Greg Yuel: 46:21

Oh yeah. So such a simple answer in it and it and it really it came upon me only in the last few years of listening, yes, and then how to listen, and it has caused me to know that, like how to listen, how to mine information from people and and getting the best result. And it has caused me to know that the best leaders and probably all of the leaders of our organizations, as each of the operating companies, have have gotten to be a good size and are you know, we've got, I think, four medium-sized businesses in the sort of the Canadian definition of a of a size of business Quiet people.

Greg Yuel: 47:13

The book Quiet is a super awesome read for everybody. It's very validating and reassuring for people that are quiet, also known as introverts, but it's also a better term than an introvert, and so that book Quiet, but it's also a really good lesson for extroverts, and I got a lot out of it and and I gave it to one of my kids and said you have to read this. So I believe that it will be quiet people that will be the best leaders. And when I think of our entrepreneurial successes, I'll just do my great shout out to Garth McDonald, gmax and that unbelievable investment experience that we got to enjoy, and there is a perfect example of why he grew that business so big and why it was so excellent is he is a quiet person, which means he listens to everybody and then picks out the information that he knows is going to work best, because it's come from the experts that defended it and off they go. So hopefully I'm getting back at that.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 48:21

I'm kind of like you, I'm slightly extroverted, I'll just say slightly, which means major league Exactly. But I agree, and we forget just sometimes, not talking, what you can learn. Yeah Right, yeah, yeah, great. Thank you so much. This was really awesome and I'm glad I got to learn more about you and your businesses. If people do want to learn more about you or about PIC, where can they find you guys Website or LinkedIn?

Greg Yuel: 48:47

What's the best place to Website has got the best information, all the information. It's got our annual profile that people can download, which is a document that we, even as a private business, that we publish, and it goes back like 10 or 12 years of annual profile, so that really a chronology of what's taken place and showing all of our investments operating companies, minority investments. So, yeah, yeah, picgroup. ca is, I think, the website. I think the website. I can put it in the show notes and then people can just click on it.

Mackenzie Kilshaw: 49:23

Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much, c. I appreciate your time and this was great to see you and for everybody listening. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks for listening to Winning. Be sure to subscribe to get all of our new episodes. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media and leave a rating and review. Wherever you listen to Winning. To catch all of the latest from us, you can follow Winning Podcast on Instagram at winning u podcast, Facebook at Winning Podcast and on Twitter at winning pod. Winning was created and is produced by me, Mackenzie Kilshaw, music created by Summer Firby, editing by Seth Armstrong. Special thanks to Shauna Foster for voicing our opening and, of course, a huge thank you to this episode's guests. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.