Episode# 78 How a Small Shift in Perspective Can Transform a Setback into a Comeback

Most athletes are told to "just rest" after injury, but what if pushing through—with the right approach accelerates healing? Dr. Pawen Dhokal and Dr. Dustin Glass reveal groundbreaking insights into the true power of active recovery, mental resilience, and nuanced diagnostics that can make or break a comeback. If you're tired of cookie-cutter advice and crave real strategies to optimize healing and mental toughness, this episode is your game-changer. Discover how complex systemic reactions can complicate concussion protocols, and learn the importance of thinking outside the textbook when it comes to injury management.

 Dr. Glass shares a recent case involving unexpected immune reactions that challenged his assumptions, illustrating why every injury isn't the same especially when underlying systemic issues can cloud diagnosis. Meanwhile, Dr. Dhokal links these insights to athlete psychology, emphasizing how mental resilience impacts physical recovery and how to foster it in young athletes. We break down vital concepts like fail-fast mentalities borrowed from elite military training encouraging you to approach setbacks as opportunities, not failures. 

Whether it’s navigating complicated ACL tears, fostering effective communication with adolescent athletes and their families, or integrating holistic health strategies outside standard insurance models, you'll learn tangible tactics to elevate your practice or personal recovery journey. Plus, get a glimpse into the future of sports medicine with ideas for building collaborative teams that blend soft tissue therapy, coaching, and mental health support—taking athletic recovery to the next level. If you're serious about understanding the unseen layers of injury and harnessing the power of mindset, this episode is essential listening. Perfect for athletes, parents, coaches, and healthcare providers eager to unlock new pathways in injury recovery and mental resilience. Don’t let a setback define you learn how to bounce back smarter, faster, and stronger. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And we are back. This is the Second Opinion. We're Sports Medicine Podcast. I'm Dr. Joe. I'm Dr. Glass. Gee, it's good to see you, my man. You too, brother. Where are you at right now? I'm in San Diego. I was here for work for a couple days. I was going to come down for Keenan Allen's football camp on Saturday, and I had one of my high school and college kids have a little something happen to him. So I stayed behind in uh SAC and took care of them and then got back to San Diego on Sunday. So unfortunately, I missed the camp, but got in a little work yesterday and got in a little work. I have a little work today after this podcast. So Burger's been around. How about you?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Good. At home right now, and I'm gonna head off to the office in uh in about a half hour. So I'm glad we can connect.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yeah, no, that's good. What's uh what's the latest with your patient cases? Anything interesting this week? I have a couple things I'd like to bring up with you, but I know you're always having things that are uh unique and interesting as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Couple interesting cases, uh a concussion case I'm working on right now that also uh combined with a couple other things, went off they went off to vacation, tropical area, came back, had a reaction to some water that was over there, not like internal, but uh systemic, and and antibiotics weren't clearing it out, and then all the kinds of tests, trying to figure out what's actually going on, skin reaction, and they can't really figure out what it is, not nothing showing up in the blood tests. So it's just an added layer to the concussion protocol as well, trying to get this athlete back to um, you know, summer camp. And just kind of one of those things that we don't think about that will kind of put a twist in, you know, i are they not responding because it's an inflammatory condition based on, you know, this other underlying uh systemic issue, or is it because they're still having concussion symptoms? So things like that that you gotta kind of work on the fly and do your differential diagnosis and focus on, you know, certain parts of it. So that was kind of interesting this week. Uh their concussion symptoms are getting better. Um, so that's that's improving. They're doing a lot, we're doing a lot of hyperbaric and uh they're coming in regularly. We got the LED, far infrared, uh, skull cap with it. So we're doing targeted hyperbarics and then the nutritionals as well, as well as well as soft tissue and chiropractic. But anyways, it's just a bummer. This you know, this teenager can't catch a break, you know. Fine finally recovering from the concussion and then, you know, go on a nice vacation for the summer, come back to summer camp, and now they're dealing with his auto uh and we gotta figure out is it an autoimmune thing? Because what we thought it was, um the doctors thought it was, is not what it is. So, anyways, stuff like that, that it's good for our, you know, listeners, uh, especially the students, to realize that it's not always clear cut cut, black and white, and uh just like the textbook says, right? They're gonna throw in an audible here and there and uh change things up on you. So you gotta be out be able to you put on your thinking hat right away and uh start uh thinking outside the box as well.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Yeah, you know what that well, I hope you figure that out because it's um it it is a little bit outside the box to try to figure out what is going on and it makes me feel bad for the kid who's had, you know, multiple kind of hits. And I wonder what his uh like mental is, you know, like how is he taking this? Because as an adult, you get a couple uppercuts and a couple jabs and you get a little wobbly on your legs, it can really kind of knock you off your focus or throw you off your kind of message with your self-esteem or confidence, even so with a young athlete or a young individual, how's he dealing with that? And like how are you helping him navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah, so there's a lot of talks between mom and the patient and myself and trying to make sure. So a lot of times when the patient's in the hyperbaric, I'm out with the mom talking and asking those kind of questions. And and I it's a new patient to me, so I don't know if it's just because they came in once they had the concussion. So I don't know if it's just their demeanor of, you know, really somber and kind of just quiet and all the the kind of classic post-concussive stuff, or their personality. Mom says it's kind of their personality, so you know I'm trying to learn that, but so I'm really having to lean heavy on mom. And mom says she's uh the patient's actually doing really well. It's a female, by the way, so that's you know, but uh yeah, so she said she's doing actually better and her and she's telling the mom the treatments are working, so she's getting some good feedback from the mom, so that's nice, you know. But uh yeah, just like we talked yesterday, just can't catch a break. It's just I feel bad for her, you know, like and uh but she yeah, she seems like she's well with it.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

You know, can I share something that I thought yesterday uh along the same lines there's kind of a parallel there on about not catching a break? And it was just I was sharing with somebody about I believe that things kind of balance out, you know. And I was saying to him, he's taken a couple L's and a couple L's and a couple L's, so like a pendulum, it's really gone far left, you know? And it might go far left a little bit more, but I was saying things balance out, energy's not created nor destroyed, and most things do come around, you know. So I was saying, man, you're really due for a right, a right, a right, a right, a right, and have this pendulum swing back and just think of the momentum you're gonna gain if you just don't jump off right here, you know, like just don't quit right now. You might even take another one, but you know what? You've taken four in the face and you're still good. Yeah, just stay stoic with it and try to lean on people when you need to lean on people, keep that confidence high, keep your self-talk positive. Because sometimes all it takes is one break. I was telling them something personally that I was like, man, I'm I feel like I'm one yes away from like winning the Super Bowl metaphorically and maybe literally. You know what I mean? And you just gotta hold on until you get that break. And so with young people, I had the thought last week that I feel like sometimes my value is more in the coaching up and the mindset than it is in like the physical things I do these days. Like the physical stuff I'm doing, I don't want to say it's easy, but it's more a second thought. And I think where I'm connecting more, or at least it feels like I'm bringing more value when I'm sharing experiences that pro athletes have had, or sharing my personal experiences, or just seeing like, hey man, this person's struggling right now and they're not maybe talking about it, or just trying to good guide them in a different way than just musculoskeletal, if that makes sense. And it sounds like you're doing that with mom. And I do have a question for you about a young player who had an ACL tear. And I spoke with mom, gave the results to mom, but I haven't spoken with the actual athlete yet. And he texted me yesterday and said, Hey, I have some questions. Is it okay if we talk? You know? And basically his season's over. He's gonna go into his junior year, and he hurt his knee at like a practice. I was hoping it was a sprain. We got imaging, it's torn, and so you know the pathway that that is, and I get the sense that it was a lot for him to digest. And so I'm gonna speak with him today. But my question to you is having daughters and having also high school and college athletes that are um coming to you for support and for care. Do you take that as a case-by-case basis, Dustin? Or do you have some things that you definitely touch on when you have these discussions? Because I have some thoughts on it, but I was curious on how you navigate that.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah, well, we're lucky that we can lean on our experiences, right? So, so I lean on my experience with having, you know, the years of working with pro-athletes. And when they come into our office, you know, when we ask them, hey, you know, give me a brief history of what's going on, and they go through their laundry list of injuries and surgeries since they were teenagers, right? Because we've been at a high level. So, so I like to point out to these younger kids a couple of things and the parents say, listen, you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, part of being an athlete is that you're gonna have to go through injuries, right? And the sooner, it sounds weird to say, the sooner you've had these injuries, the sooner your body and your mind and you will learn that there is a next step to it. Right now, this is your first major injury. So it's like the end of the world for you, the end of your career, the end of this. But, you know, but trust me, when you get through this and you lean on it and you're you're coming, you're you have your comeback story, the next time you sprain your knee or low an ankle, you're gonna be able to lean back on this experience and be like, okay, I know I can get through it. Right. You just haven't had that yet. You haven't had that. So right now you're building your comeback story for your next in injury. So how do you want to write that narrative? Right? So, because guess what? As long as you want to be in a competitive role, you're gonna have more injuries. So, how you respond to it right now, this first one, is gonna set you up for your success in the future. So, right now you have an opportunity to write that script. You can either write it as a failure and as somebody that gave into it, which is fine if that's your choice, then you can live with that, or you can come out a victor and have victory and and be able to prove to yourself and everybody else, okay, this was a little minor setback, but watch my comeback and look at how great I am. The person is it defined me. Don't let this injury define you. That's the biggest thing. Really? Yeah, exactly. That's the whole point. It's a narrative for the rest of your life. Yeah, but you have an opportunity with your first one. You know, both of us have been through knee surgeries. We've been there, done that. I'm not nearly as scared to get another one as I was for my first one. Sure. You know, in high school, my junior year, my sophomore and junior year. My sophomore year, I went in for my first one, my junior year I had to go into my second one. So by the time my senior year, I already had two knee surgeries under my belt, you know. So And two rehabs. Yeah, exactly. And I'm not I still play senior year and I still came back and played college, you know. So, you know, don't tell me it's not possible, you know. So, you know, and luckily that person has you so in their in their repertoire, right? And if they didn't, you're gonna help them find somebody that can help them wherever they are, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So absolutely. It's one of my frustrations, actually, is that um I've had a lot of, I mean, it's been an ongoing thing, and I don't blame, yeah. I paused there for a second because I was gonna say I don't blame the medical professionals, and I had to just think about if I really do or don't. And I don't. And the reason is is because if you're a PT and you're working for, say, a hospital chain, I already know what it is. You're on the books from eight to five, you got people every 15 minutes. You're really just you have this framework that you got to adhere to because it's corporate and you're not able to practice maybe the way that you want to, the way that we can, because for better or for worse, we own our own businesses and so we can make those decisions. And it um I had the comment of how come they didn't do that in PT? I went to two rounds of physical therapy and not once did they ever, I'm not gonna put them on blast, but do XYZ. Why didn't they do that? You're making it sound like it's so basic. I should have been doing that from the get-go. I said, ideally, yeah, you would have been, but I think their objectives may be different. You know, I said, my objective for you is by this time next year to be a hundred percent and not miss a game your senior season. Their objective is probably can you sit on the toilet and can you get in the shower? Can you put on your shoes? They're not thinking about you need to swim move somebody and then get to the quarterback. They're not thinking like that, you know. And if you express it, I don't know if people have the time if they're in that corporate setting. So I was just telling the mom, like, I'm a part of your team now, if you'll have me, and we need more people on this team. It can't just be me. You know, we need to find whatever it is that he needs so he has his team. And that should be, in my opinion, that a group of trusted individuals that know his history. So as he goes and progresses through college and beyond, people know his body, they know his attitude, they know his history. And then you also have a trusted team of people that you can get a second opinion from in case something happens, if the team doctor, the team trainer says something. And so I was really just encouraging her and really everybody listening, if you have a young athlete or if it's yourself. I don't know if we can rely on just our health insurance anymore. I don't know if you can just have said health insurance and then just be like, well, I have this thing, let me go in and get some treatment. I think that works for a lot of things, but I think for some more complicated issues, you can't just do the bare minimum. I don't, I don't think that's the way to approach it. And so I just see a world where unfortunately I think it's gonna be like a payout-of-pocket situation where people are gonna have to have health insurance and then have another fund for recovery for health, you know, like a health fund outside of your health insurance, in my opinion, is sickness care. It's not let's be healthy and and optimize ourselves. Like that doesn't include peptides, it doesn't include multivitamins, it doesn't include things that are healthy for you, like acupuncture all oftentimes. And so um they just open my eyes to the need of people that do what we do, and we need more of those people. And I think there's there's some risk associated with just stepping out on your own and doing your own business, and there's some comfort with joining a corporate entity, and that comes with a framework that doesn't always align with the patient's best interest. Sometimes it aligns with profits, you know? Yeah. So that's a struggle, dude. And that it makes me feel good about what we do, but it also the financial thing is real for everybody, you know? It's so I'd like to get to a point where this podcast disanimate disseminates enough information to enough people that we're able to monetize it. I I would love a world where I can just open my clinic and not charge anything, you know, and have people come in. And am I one person and can I only put in 40 hours or 30 hours of treatments? Yeah, but I could get 30 people, one hour of treatment that's comped and they couldn't afford it, it can improve their life. Or like I have one kid last year who probably wasn't going to play in college and just did enough to get a D1 NIL scholarship, you know? And a couple years previous, he was injured, missed a few games, and coincidentally or not, he didn't last season, and that contributed to his numbers and his stats, and so sometimes little things do make a big difference, you know, and not that help is a little thing, but it uh reminded me about how important what we do is and just like being super focused every day and being present, you know, because yeah, on a Tuesday afternoon that it's maybe just another patient to you and I, not another one, but it's one of several. But to that patient, it might be their only treatment of the month or the week, you know? And so I've been reminding myself of that just so I stay sharp, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

And yeah, what's your experience been with that?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

No, I like it. That's one of the things I try to remind remind myself all the time and to refocus on because it's easy to get kind of caught up in the rat race of the day and of the week and the month and all that. And then before you know it, you look back, you're like, oh my gosh, where'd the month go? But I remember early on learning the concept of the Disneyland experience. You know, one of Disneyland's models was, you know, when a when a new customer comes in, they want to give them the Disneyland experience, meaning that they it is the their model is the happiest place on earth. So they want to make it to where, you know, when you leave, it was the best experience you ever had. And then the next time you came, it was the best experience you ever came. But because that means that you had your individual experience. It wasn't the collective experience. So, meaning like in business one-on-one, I want to give our patients as if when they walk through our door and I shut that door and it's just me and them. It is that they're the only patients I'm seeing all day long. That's how they should feel. Because I go back to my very first patient in clinic at Palmer when she 87-year-old Japanese woman that would take two trains to get to me in the clinic at in San Jose, and she would come dressed to the knives like she was going to church, and she would bring me her leftover meals on wheels, and it was all she had planned all day long. So I got her apple and her cookie every time she'd bring it in. And so I remembered like, okay, that's my very first patient.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

That's precious.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

From there on, I I wanted that was her whole day was planned. And I knew she would go home and maybe her mom, her uh or uh daughter or granddaughter or family would call, mom, what'd you do today? And she would tell about her day. She had to get up really early to make it, and and she was, but anyways, so from there on, and that I was lucky enough to have that experience with my first patient because I wanted to make sure, because that just to your point, was that might be their only thing of the whole day, right? So I better deliver and make it special because they made it special, right? So it's it's it's we have to check ourselves and remind ourselves on a patient by patient base to take a deep breath before we walk into that door, reset ourselves and uh and deliver. It's a skill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

It's a skill to learn things natural.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, and I want to treat people as if I wanted to be treated, right? It's the golden rule, right? So every time, or okay, if this was my parents sitting in this room and another doctor's coming in, I want to make sure my parents are getting treated well. I hear, and you I'm sure, hear it all the time too, with our non-athlete patients, especially, that the doctors didn't give them the time of day, were kind of rude, were dismissive. And I would never want that from my parents, you know. But to your point earlier, that that's kind of the the doctors, the MDs, a lot of my MD friends at foaming, they're a victim of the system because because they're only getting paint so much per patient by the insurance companies, they have to double, triple, quadruple book, and then that just to keep their lights on. So that only gives them so much time, and it comes across as being rude and you know, like, because to them it's automatic. They know what to say, they know what to do, and they move. And it's patients sitting there going, I don't even know what just happened, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

So it's important to also bring up the power of touch too. I had uh actually my dad went to the doctors for some testing, and he's always a little disgruntled about going, like, why did they pull so much blood? It's like, bro, you're not healthy. They're pulling blood, they got to do tests. Like, if you don't want that, then you gotta be healthier, you know? And one of the comments was, you know, the doctor came in and he pushed in this cart and he was behind the cart on the computer, uh, asked me some questions, and I barely answered. And it was the next question, and then he's like, then he was out. He's like, he didn't even touch me. Like he didn't even, and it made me think like you could from an MD's perspective, you could probably ascertain what you need to ascertain without putting hands on, hence virtual appointments, you know. And we do those too at times for people, but it's not as effective as being in the room and feeling someone's energy and being able to palpate and move. And but it made me think about that doctor's constraints, like you said, you know, and he's like, I gotta do the best job I can in seven minutes with this person and then move on. And it's just it's the nature of their how their the stuff is set up, you know? Yeah, getting back to the point of focus. I was telling an athlete that um, you know, you reset every 30 seconds, right? In football, interception happens, a sack happens, a shitty penalty happens, like whatever happens, it's the whistle, the time, like we got to hit the huddle. Yeah, we're going. Yeah, moving on, moving on. You're so effective at doing that on the field. Why don't we adopt that to the things that we do every single day? You know? Something good happens, great. Accept it, learn from it, move on. Something bad happens, great. Accept it, learn from it, move on, you know. And that focus is really a learned thing. And I was just trying to tell them that that wasn't something that always came natural to me. Maybe it's because I have some form of ADHD and I just am really good at compartmentalizing or something, but it was really something that I had to be uh intentional about when I started practicing because sometimes I'd be with somebody early on and be thinking about the last person, or I knew somebody else was coming in soon. That was a complex case, and it's doing a disservice to the person that you're with. And so just like we learned how to do that, I was telling him, and he's younger, kind of you know, in high school still, that if he can develop that trait now versus I didn't do it till I was in my 30s, right? He's gonna be crushing in life, you know, because it'll matter in his relationships and his work and his school and athletics and a bunch of things. And so in a day where our attention span is just so short and everything we do is made to distract us and to gain our attention, being able to focus is a superpower now.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah. Living down here, you know, Southern California around all the military, um, both of us have Navy SEAL patients and special force patients. And one of the things I learned from their teachings and learning or uh, you know, train of thought is fail fast. You know, they don't have time. You can't sit there in the heat of the battle and and think about the the the situation at hand that you just just you know either accomplished or are about to accomplish. If something happens, you drop your weapon, you do this, you you trip and fall. You're not gonna sit there and dwell on it. You gotta fail fast. You gotta get over it and move on. And so that's one thing I try to work with my patients about, even in our rehab when we're doing stuff and and they're working on balance and they they they fall off the balance board or they fall. We talk about fail fast, get back on that. I don't want you to reset the memory of just now you just kind of sulk and you fail, right? No, you gotta flip that switch, you hit the floor, you gotta retrain it that you're back up on that board, you didn't give it a time of day, right? So to your your point with that kid, everything in life, right? You get a bad grade, okay, that sucks. Let's learn from it. What like if you don't take the moment to reflect on what you just did and why you got the bad grade, then that's on you. That's that's not learning. If you just said, Oh, I got a bad grade and moved on and got another bad grade, moved on, that's not learning. But if you but you can't dwell on it for a week, two weeks of what you know getting bad grade, you gotta figure it out, fix it, and move on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

So can I add something to that too? Is it's easier said than done, right? It's easier said to just move on and process things or learn from something. And try to not have something repeat. But I was sharing that, like, there's really also nothing wrong with if it's a teacher going up to a teacher and communicating, yo, I'm really trying right now. Like, I know I'm like maybe failing or not doing as good, or this could be a coach, but I want you to know that I'm trying to figure it out. And I think expressing that can go a long way. And sometimes your coach or teacher may see something from a bird's eye view that you don't being in it. And expressing that and communicating that can really get another person on your team. You know, it can reline the perspective of how your teacher is looking. Like, oh Dustin, he's just doing, he's always getting C's, like he's not doing well. Like P is man, I don't know why he's not getting this concept. He just must not be trying. They might have perception. And so you know you're grinding and you're getting frustrated. But if you just use your words and do the hard thing and go up to the coach, go up to the teacher, can have some office hours. Hey, can I talk to you about something real quick? And just keep it a buck, just keep it real. You might find that you have like somebody who is critical that now all of a sudden wants to be on your side and really help you succeed, you know?

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, I'm like that you said that 100%. Communication is key, and then learn the sooner we can learn that, right? Because, like to your point earlier, I didn't learn that till college. I never learned the office I never learned to anything. But once I did, I started to see that the teachers actually wanted to help me versus me versus them. They were actually like, thank you for coming. Let's make this happen. And how many times did it actually help us on grades, tip us over to the next level, just because we were showing, you know, truly that we cared and we were trying, whether we got it or not. Not not all of us are good students, you know, or good, you know, like you said, it could be a coach, it could be like you're doing everything in in your mind, right? But the coach is wanting something a little different. And until you ask, you were thinking you were doing what they wanted. And they're like, No, I want your your left hand on this side of their hip. And you're like, crap, I thought you wanted it on the shoulder. So I've been doing it on the shoulder, you know. Like, and they're like, No, you're showing me you're not coachable by not putting you like, crap, I just heard it wrong. I'm sorry, coach. And now I got it. And coach is all, okay, yeah, you're starting next week. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, I mean, as coaches, you're coaching flag football. We both coached football before. And I do want another episode when I learn more and talk more about your women's flag football. I think it's actually really exciting and dope. Corey that we had on the podcast also is involved with that. And so we'll touch more on that. I don't want to gloss over it, but it um just reminded me about how when young athletes came to me and I was coaching and like brought something to my attention, I was invested in them, and you like never play, you're on the bench and you saw something, or you have a thought, or you think that you could be helpful in this situation. I'm listening to you. You think you can run that tight end drag after we block seven times and the eighth time fake the block and go? That's a great idea. Let's run that, you know? And then I'm invested in it. And so it uh I was just encouraging this young man to express what he was expressing to me because he felt comfortable. Tell the guy that makes those decisions, you know, tell the coach, tell your assistant coach. And it doesn't have to be it can really be out of a curiosity type of situation, like, hey, I was just curious, or I have these thoughts, or hey, I want to get better, or hey, I'm struggling, and do you see something that can help me? You know, that's what I told them. If somebody came to me and said, Is there something that I can do that would help me be better? Well, I'm looking at that, you know? And so Yeah, I think that that's uh that's an important thing. And then I just bring that back to on our on a personal side, take a sports medicine out of it. How important is communication in relationships, you know?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Whether it's work or whether it's your significant other. And I think a lot of times we think things and don't say them, and I know I've been guilty of that. And it sounds like such a simple thing just to communicate and express things or ask questions, and at times it's hard, and at times it's even harder with people that you're closest with. Yeah. So it's just a good reminder to not ruminate on thoughts and use words.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah. Well, like you said, with making sense. It takes two to have a conversation, right? Yeah. So if you if one of one of you is not conversing and not talking, then it then the other person it's left up to interpretation of what you're thinking. And that's dangerous, right? So it's always in the best benefit of both parties to both of you be communicating freely, right? And then and encourage that because if not, that's why I try to tell my kids all the time, is like if you're not speaking to me, then I have to then I have to assume or interpret something that might not be exactly how you want to represent whatever we're trying to accomplish. And then that's then we go on that. And you if you've kept quiet, that's not fair to me either, right? So it's important, but uh yeah, but let's uh let's touch, you know, I gotta get going soon. But let's uh I'd like to regroup on the flag football thing and on your experiences uh with uh but I like what we're where we're going with the the coaching side and the mentoring side. That's that's good stuff. So no, there's a lot of value there for sure. Well, I love that you're seeing that too. I'm experiencing that, and a lot of times, you know, this is kind of weird, and I know you feel this too. Sometimes I wish I could just have that type of practice, right? And have an associate to do the chiropractic side or on the soft tissue side. Because to your point, it's not that it's easy, like we're skilled at what we do, but you know, we do know there's a lot of people that do soft tissue. There's a lot of people that can adjust, but there's not a lot of people with our experience that can lean on that and and give that feedback too. So sometimes I feel like, man, in a perfect world, you know, I could just, you know, have a team working on the soft tissue, and then we have these coaching, consulting type moments where we can game plan on things. So, and I don't think it's yeah out of the question. I just think, you know, that's the next level, you know, which because there are people that do that, you know. But I think we can bottle that up, especially there it's done at the higher levels, the professional level, the elite levels. It's not done at the the younger level. So you know, figuring that model out would be awesome, I think. Let me do the question.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Thank you. I think, well, I've had the thought. Let me just articulate what I'm thinking, and you can tell me it's trash or if it's valuable, and I know we got to go in a couple minutes. I think there's something to having hands-on people. And when I'm working with somebody for a half hour, an hour, and I I'm sure you feel the same way, as much I understand what you're saying about just let me just connect with people. And that's what I was gonna say is I think that's really our superpower, is I'm like connecting with damn near everyone that's coming in, and the physical stuff, the musculoskeletal stuff is an important product, the primary thing they're coming in for, you know, the connection is where I'm getting through to people on you should do this or we should make these changes, or they're sharing things that they think are unrelated to the physical thing that's going on, and it's not unrelated. Yeah, I didn't connect, they wouldn't have shared that, you know. And so to what you said, I think that that having that time with the patients and making them feel comfortable and having the nervous system feel safe and relaxed so they can share those things. That's part of what we do too. If we had somebody doing the mechanical stuff and then we're like, hey, what's going on? Talk to me. I don't know if you open up like that or you have that connection. Yeah, I think there's something too, there's pain here. Let me get that, breathe. And what's going on with you? Yeah. And having this natural thing, you know? And so I feel like we're a good mix of, well, they say hand, heart, head, right? So like I really feel like I'm in the wheelhouse of that in uh a mix of experience and passion and just like having the opportunity. And I think we can make more impact with the younger kids than the older. The guys are in the pros or the women are in the professional level, they've kind of made it. And so I think we're in the right place at the right time, I guess, to make the greatest impact, which is what we've always talked about doing, you know?

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yep. Well, let's uh let's sign off and that way we can uh regroup, see some penetrations, and uh do what we do, and then uh yeah, sign us off.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

All right, bud. Well, I got a busy day ahead, couple home visits. You got a full day of patience, I assume.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yes, sir. Then up to LA.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Okay. Well, drive safe. I'm headed back up north tomorrow, so I'll give you a call. And uh if we can make a drive-by hello and hug, I'll try to.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah, that'd be awesome. Like we did last time. Let's try and make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

All right, I'll hit you up when I leave here in the morning, see how the day shakes out. But I appreciate you making time today. I know we're both busy, but I gotta be honest with you, this is like one of the most fun things that I do, you know? Yeah, me too. And I think it hopefully impacts a lot of people and helps those who listen. So to all our listeners, thank you. We appreciate you. Share this with friends or family or anybody else who's interested in health and wellness or sports medicine. And uh, we'll be back with you next week. I'm Dr. Dokal. I'm Dr. Glass. We love you guys. Take care, be healthy, be safe, and we'll be back with you soon. This is Second Pinion Sports Medicine Podcast. We're signing off and we'll talk to you guys soon. Be safe. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

See ya.