We all have that one tale that haunts our sleep; for us, it's the macabre legacy of Katherine Knight, Australia's very own Hannibal Lecter. Our latest episode peels back the facade of a seemingly ordinary life to reveal a maelstrom of family betrayal, violence, and a crime that petrifies the soul. Through a narrative embroidered with the harrowing insights from Sandra Lee's "Beyond Bad" and the atmospheric cadence of an Australian audiobook, we reconstruct the blood-curdling path that led Knight to notoriety.
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We all have that one tale that haunts our sleep; for us, it's the macabre legacy of Katherine Knight, Australia's very own Hannibal Lecter. Our latest episode peels back the facade of a seemingly ordinary life to reveal a maelstrom of family betrayal, violence, and a crime that petrifies the soul. Through a narrative embroidered with the harrowing insights from Sandra Lee's "Beyond Bad" and the atmospheric cadence of an Australian audiobook, we reconstruct the blood-curdling path that led Knight to notoriety.
Thanks for all the support!! Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Tik Tok, or email us, and remember we now have a Patreon!!
patreon.com/sinnersamongsaintspodcast
sinnersamongsaintspodcast@gmail.com
Tik Tok @sinnersamongsaints
Hi, I'm Lindsay and I'm Megan, and this is Sinners Among Saints.
Speaker 2:Hello, welcome back.
Speaker 1:How's your week been? Oh man, it's been bananas. This is so busy, so busy.
Speaker 2:And it's been windy up north here, oh we none of us could sleep.
Speaker 1:So I don't know how high the wind is. It feels like it's like 60 miles per hour. But last night we put the kids to bed and we're laying in bed and all of a sudden we hear this like noise that sounds like somebody is in, like on the floor of our bedroom, like growling. It was freaky. And so we I was like what was that I?
Speaker 2:was like.
Speaker 1:I have no idea. And then all of a sudden, Cruz comes running out of his room. Mom, what was that noise? And I was like I don't know. And then we figured out it was the barbecue out in our backyard. Oh, that was getting blown across the patio and it was like making this horrific scraping noise. It was so, it's so windy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got like the alert through like the university like, oh my God, it's gonna like you're gonna blow away like leave for work early because we're not closing.
Speaker 2:Like campus is still open and it literally has not been windy like hardly at all in like the Salt Lake area. I'm in Murray like there's no wind, but I did watch a video today on Tic Tac and I don't know where it was, but it reminded me of like here because I know like Caseville and like North here has been like, yeah, super windy, so windy, and it's this husband outside and he's like it's like when your husband refuses to let the trampoline blow away and it is like literally like I don't know hurricane winds. This guy is out there and he's like hammering you can tell like the little metal thingies, like you know, like on the legs of the trampoline you shaped yeah.
Speaker 2:So he's like out there hammering it in, the wife's like oh my God, there's the neighbor's trampoline that comes like flying in their backyard, and so he's like running around the trampoline like hammering these in. And then, when he gets to the backside their trampoline, still like lifts up all the places where he's hammered it in and just like flies away but like knocks him over, like, and she's like screams his name and he goes like tumbling around on the ground.
Speaker 1:Ours is positioned now by our fence and so it kind of blocks them a little bit. But that happened to us last year, did it, and it blew into the fence and like broke the fence?
Speaker 2:Yeah, ours, because we're in a townhouse, so like it's very small back area. And we have like a, it's like a six foot fence all around anyway. And so even what was that two weeks ago or whatever, when it was like torrential winds like so, so bad? It was really windy and it like kind of bent the poles that hold like the net up, but it didn't ever like blow anything like out of our yard. Well, that's good.
Speaker 1:But it will be the hot tub cover.
Speaker 2:It didn't our hot tub cover like clips on.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 2:Clipped on, but it did actually blow the the ladder. Oh, because, like a couple days later, the kids are not to jump and Cody's like Where's the ladder? And I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's stupid. I would actually prefer to have a snowstorm than a windstorm, because then there's just shit all over my yard. There's like I mean, it's just everywhere and there's a tree. So right by where our window is we have two big trees. We have like a big rose bush and then a plum tree that we have been terrible about pruning and we never prune anything, yeah, and so that it's now like hitting up against the house. So every time it's windy all you hear is like scraping and then it's like whistling noises the whole night and I didn't sleep well last night and it's the kids. It freaks the kids out.
Speaker 2:And I don't know what it is about like horrific weather, but I love every second of that. I love when it's like freakishly windy and I can like hear in my house and it like makes my heart like so happy and literally Cody comes home from work on all of these days and wants to like murder all of society because the weather was bad and it just like pisses him off so much I'm like I love it, I like it.
Speaker 1:I like when it's bad weather and I can just like curl up inside and read a book and like open my windows. But when I'm sleeping and it's keeping me up, that's a problem.
Speaker 2:It's like white noise for me when I'm done with it. Yeah, I think it's because my mom snored so freaking. Well right, you're just like used to it.
Speaker 1:I can like certain number of noise. I literally can see you need to sleep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's like. I can sleep through anything, because I'm just so you. I remember like the first time Shane spent the night when we were like teenagers and the next morning he was like how do you sleep at night and I was like what? And he's like your mom snored, yeah, so loud, and I was like, oh, he's like I didn't sleep at all, like no, I remember that too.
Speaker 1:And sleeping over at your house. When you guys were in the apartment, kind of by Mountain View, and it was a smaller place, oh yeah, your other house. You were like separated a little bit, but that was the first time that I had like slept at your house where it was like right next door, and I was like, oh my God, what is happening? And that's before I knew about sleep apnea, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean, I didn't know about it, I'm always snored. I'm sure it was what it sounded like in the womb, so it's just normal for me.
Speaker 1:I cannot sound like I cannot sleep to any of that. So Mario will snore sometimes like pretty loud and I have to like punch him or like, yes, like I'm going to kill you.
Speaker 2:You have to stop. There was. They did something on the radio the other day about like what did it say? It was like 52% of people say that like their partner snore, getting like affects their sleep. So like yeah, they like either sleep in separate rooms or whatever because of that.
Speaker 2:And I was like Cody does sleep I'm pretty sure he probably asleep apnea, but he can snore pretty loud. There's some nights where he doesn't snore at all, so maybe he doesn't have it, but like there are times where it is like it is legit snoring and but it's like I'm just so used to it Like it does not bother me. And I guess one time Nolan spent the night at his grandma at Monique's house, and I think her husband snores really loud and Nolan was sleeping like in their room, say, like a really big bedroom with like almost like a seating area, okay, and there. So it's like it's really big. So he was sleeping on this like I don't know big thing at like the end of their bed and I guess he woke up in the middle of night and woke up and was like grandma, what is that noise? It's just.
Speaker 1:It's just like I didn't want for warn him, I didn't even think about it or that can be loud, and I know Mario does not have sleep apnea, but what especially like if he gets sick? He has really bad allergies, yeah, and so if he gets sick at all, there's been times where I've kicked him to Cruz's room because I'm like, no, I cannot sleep. And when we go to his mom's house I take the bedroom because they have very limited sleeping areas. So the boys are on an air mattress in the living room, One of them sleeps sleeps on the couch and then one of them sleeps on a recliner in her house and then in the middle room there's like a twin bed that's tiny, so I always take that room and all of the boys. Every morning they wake up. I didn't sleep at all. Dad snores so loud. Yeah, I feel my pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I only snore like when I do get really stuffy, just because I can't freaking breathe at all. Yeah, I think I do too, other than that, because those are the only times in Cody's like you were snoring last night I'm like oh God, I'm so sorry. And he's like no, it's okay, I just can't breathe. I'm so stuffy. You're like listen pop versus kettle Shut the hell up. Yeah, it doesn't even like doesn't even phase me at all.
Speaker 1:Mario is definitely not every night, or I would probably. I don't know. I don't know what I would do.
Speaker 2:I'm really against the sleeping in separate rooms. I am too. That would be so hard If that was something that really kept you up at night. That would be really hard because that also affects, like, your mental well being, and I don't sleep when Mario is not, like when Mario's gone or not in bed next to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, even if he is downstairs and I have to get up early, so I go to bed, I'll make him come upstairs, because I can't sleep unless he's next to me. It is weird.
Speaker 2:And see my whole, like literally the majority of my marriage.
Speaker 2:I went to bed alone because we always worked like opposite shifts and Shane would be coming home, like when I was getting up in the morning, and so I was so, so used to it. But now, like me and Cody always go to bed together, no matter what time he gets, like I just wait up and I always go to bed like at the same time as him, yeah, and so it is weird now, like if not that he's ever not there, but like if I go somewhere, like you know, out of town or whatever, and then he's not like in bed, it is like a weird, weird thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is weird and super weird.
Speaker 2:You should get used to them Well.
Speaker 1:so I'm sorry for all of the you know, spouses of people who snore and can't sleep because that sounds miserable.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, I feel I feel for you if you can't sleep. Yeah, it's my white noise. No, I can't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I do, we have anything I?
Speaker 2:don't think we have anything.
Speaker 1:We have some really like fun stuff coming up. Yes, we are working in. We are in the works to take this thing to the next level.
Speaker 2:We are leveling up very, very appreciated help right when, I level up. I really wanted to play the Mario like.
Speaker 1:I know, I wish we had a mixture.
Speaker 2:I know I was like oh my god, that would be so great, that would be great.
Speaker 1:That would have been like a perfect insert right there. So if any of our people that are local or even if you work, not local you want to sponsor us, reach out to us and let us know we can have a sponsorship where we do an ad for you and, yeah, reach out to us and let us know.
Speaker 1:So we've got some big things coming and so make sure that you go follow us on all of our things our Instagram, our Facebook, our TikTok and then, if you want to support us further on the show aside from just listening every week, go to our Patreon, patreoncom slash centers among saints podcast, and then we have three tiers that you can sign up for and you get lots of fun goodies you do, and also book your trip to Denver.
Speaker 2:Yes, in July, july 11th through the 14th, I believe, is the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival. Yeah, in Denver and we're going to be there and it was a lot of fun last year. There's a ton of other like podcasts there, some paranormal ones which are kind of fun like that, just focus only on paranormal stuff. So they're like good at it, you know. I think sometimes we try to and we're just not.
Speaker 1:It's not our niche, like like other people, but it's fun and it's you get to meet other podcasters, yeah, and there's hold off on buying your tickets, though, just consider it, because we're trying to do something with them for sure, and if it pans out we'll let you know. If it doesn't pan out, then we'll tell you to go buy your tickets now. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Look at room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look into it, book yourself like a book, plan things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, make a plan to go down there and hang out with us. Yeah, it'll be fun and we'll get some drinks or something. Yeah, we would be happy to hang out people after the oh yeah, there's a super fun bar downtown Denver called. I think it's one up and it's like the. It's like quarters in downtown Salt Lake. That's a nice, like a video game bar.
Speaker 1:Oh, that would be fun, and it's super fun. Okay so excellent, let's all meet up there, guys. Let's do it All right. Well, on that note, we're going to get into this case, and this week we're covering possibly I don't want to say for sure, but possibly one of the most depraved individuals we have covered yet. Oh she it is a female is known as the Australian.
Speaker 2:Hannibal Lecter.
Speaker 1:Although she only ever killed one person, her life was riddled with victims. This is a two parter because it's pretty extensive. To Pada to Pada, and I did read a book about this case called Beyond Bad by Sandra Lee, and there's a lot of interviews with the family and friends that happen after the fact and that's how she kind of like puts everything together with the book. Okay, very, very well written, and if you are on Audible, it's an Australian woman who reads it.
Speaker 2:It's great. I wonder if it's the same one who did the last. I've been reading this listening to the series on Audible. It's like an Australian detective lady, but it's an Australian person that does it, and I just love listening to her topic of her narrative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was the same person. It was like a pretty nice read, even though it was like terrible, right, yeah, things that you're hearing it's just like so great.
Speaker 2:It is so great, I don't know what it is. And then, like Australian the accent, there's some. You guys say some shit like kind of weird, like it's not, it's definitely not like British right.
Speaker 1:Like what were they say there? There was one part where they were talking about taking the garbage out and first of all, it's a rubbish bin right, which is right but then it's a wheelie cart, I think that's what they called it. So the trash can, the big trash can that you put out on the side of your side, it's the wheelie cart. But they say like I'm pretty sure that's what they call it Like the word.
Speaker 2:No, it's like got it like a weird inflection at the end. It's not just like like what you could do like a British accent and kind of throw it in there, I love it. Yeah, I like wish I could do it because I love it so much, I know.
Speaker 1:So much I want to go to Australia.
Speaker 2:There's a guy on this season. I've married at first site.
Speaker 1:That's from New Zealand, but it's very similar to Australia and I every time but every time you talk to them just like listen to him forever. Talk to me. You could just talk to me.
Speaker 2:Make some cuter automatically, it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I'm watching it right now actually, so I'm not too far in because I've been real busy with this case, but I'm like a little bit in. It's a good one. Yeah, so this is the case of Catherine Knight. I do it Often referred to as Kath or Kathy. She was born on October 24, 1955 in Tentor filled, australia, tentor filled.
Speaker 2:Tentor filled All right. Well, she's not a Libra. Just, everyone knows Weird, weird. We do not claim her, she is just outside of us.
Speaker 1:But she is. No, she isn't, she really isn't no.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought she was no. October 22nd is when it changes, is the?
Speaker 1:cut off. Mm-hmm. What's after? Libra? I don't even know. Scorpio Okay, maybe I'm not a big sign person. I know my sign, but I don't know what any of those things mean.
Speaker 2:But I think it's Scorpio, because then Capricorn, I think, is December.
Speaker 1:I'm a Gemini and we're considered crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm a Libra and we do not claim Catherine Knight. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't blame you. I wouldn't claim her either.
Speaker 2:No, she's If I was.
Speaker 1:Scorpio, I wouldn't claim her either. No, she's she is, she is. So she was born to her mother, her mother Barbara Rohan, and her father, ken Knight. Now her mom, barbara, had been married prior to meeting her father and that relationship. They had four boys from her first marriage, but Barbara just decided that she wasn't happy in her marriage and just up and left. So she started having an affair with Kent before she left her marriage and was like, yeah, the grass is greener, so she just peaced out and left all of her kids there. Oh, she left the kids. She left the kids. So she not only walked out on her husband, but she walked out on her four boys.
Speaker 1:So I didn't really say what age they were, but it sounds like they were two older, a small break, and then two younger ones, and the two younger ones I know were like 18 months and younger, oh, and so the two older boys ended up staying with their dad, but he couldn't care for the two younger ones by himself and work, and so they went to live with their paternal aunt, who ends up raising them most of their childhood. Okay, soon, after Barbara and Ken start dating, they end up getting pregnant, and it was like she just abandoned one family to start over new, which I will never understand. No, I can't even imagine Now that I'm a mom. You hear these stories and you're like how do you leave your children?
Speaker 1:No especially because it sounds like the older two, if I had to estimate, were like probably like five and seven.
Speaker 2:Well, and how do you do that? Being a mom of a boy Like how do you not? Just like, not that, like a mom of a girl, like I don't love my daughter because I could walk out on my girl.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love both of my children but like boys are just usually like mama's boys, like that's usually just kind of how it is. And yeah, how do you just?
Speaker 1:I how do you just up and leave your time?
Speaker 2:You see a woman on a show or like, if you happen to meet one who has, like, left their kids behind, I'm like there's something wrong with that person. Yeah, agreed, absolutely something wrong Agreed.
Speaker 1:So they end up having another son together. So this one, she has five boys, and then they get pregnant again and are shocked when she goes on to deliver twin girls. So the fraternal twins are named Kathy and Joy, and the couple went on to have another son several years later. So in total, in total Barbara had eight kids, six boys and two girls. Four children in each marriage or each. Yeah, yeah, oh shit. So her first husband ends up passing away pretty suddenly when the oldest two boys are teenagers, and so they come to live with Barbara and her new family after, like, not having contact with them. It's the weirdest situation. And then she actually petitioned to get all four boys back, but the two younger ones wanted to stay with their aunt because she had kind of been like no harm that they had known.
Speaker 2:That would literally be like some other lady wants to take you away from your mom and raise you now. Yeah, like they don't know her like.
Speaker 1:Thanks for these, thanks for putting in all this work. I just think I'll take them back now. No, that's not how this works, barbara. No, that's not how this works.
Speaker 2:That's like mentally not good for your children. No, and the court agreed with that. She obviously doesn't care about the mental well being of her children, so she doesn't, and so they're allowed to stay with the aunt.
Speaker 1:So most of Kathy's life she grew up with six children in the household and then the younger brothers did eventually come to live with their mom after their aunt passed away. But this was when they were in their late teens, so they didn't really she didn't really know them as well, but it sounds like the siblings all became fairly close. Okay, the family lived in a town called Aberdeen, Australia, which is a very small town. Like at the time there was like 1200 people in the whole town. Okay, so very, very small town. It is filled more with, like a rough crowd. It's a big sort of industrial area and the big place to work is this it's called an abattoir, which I had never heard of. That it's a slaughterhouse, but it's an abattoir.
Speaker 2:It's such a fancy name Because.
Speaker 1:I'm Australian. I work at the abattoir, not sounds like I work at the slaughterhouse. Yeah, it sounds like you're way better I don't know French, like fancy establishment. I know.
Speaker 2:Not just murdering it, not murdering animals, because I eat it, but I would want to work there.
Speaker 1:just to say that I worked at the abattoir. Yeah, the abattoir, it just sounds amazing.
Speaker 2:But it's not amazing.
Speaker 1:So at this slaughterhouse they slaughter about 600 head of cattle a day. And several pigs.
Speaker 2:Where do you get 600 a day? I?
Speaker 1:don't know. It seems like a lot, that's a shit ton of cows, but they shipped at this time they were like one of the biggest slaughterhouses and like they would just ship meat all over to the US, to Canada, all over Australia. Okay, so, like they were pretty big, had giant cow farms, and I'm not going to go over like go into this too much, but in the book it talks about all the jobs in the slaughterhouse and I had no clue what went into this, and it's pretty crazy, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just when they walked in there and something killed them and went about their day.
Speaker 1:No, so it's like a whole process because they have to actually do the killing, so one person does that, and then they have to bleed them out, and then they have to gut them, then they have to skin them, then they have to do all of these things and then it trickles down, trickles down, and so people in this area essentially just work really long hours, yeah, and then after they get done at the factory or the abattoir, wherever they're working, then they just go out with friends and drink the night away and smoke all their ciggies and then get up and do it all over again. Okay, and it's just. That's the lifestyle in this area, okay, but it's also like a big, extended family, because it's so small that everybody knows everybody, yeah, okay. So Joy, kathy's twin sister, became the favorite, favorite sibling and was favored by all of her siblings and even her mom. She was the one that people seemed to be able to confide in and she was a little bit more of a tomboy, but she was also much more attractive than Kathy.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Kathy was said to have not been much of a looker.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And when you see pictures of her you yeah, you can kind of see this. So she has long red hair and rosy cheeks. She was quite tall. It always describes her as very tall. From what I could find, she's like five seven, so it's not like she's humongous.
Speaker 1:It's not like six feet tall, I don't know if in that area everyone's like a little shorter. Yeah, I don't know, but it describes her as like she towers over a lot of the men in her life. Oh, but she's not like a huge lady, yeah, okay. So, um, she has thick like glasses and cap had anything but a good childhood. So her dad, ken, was a raging and violent alcoholic who ended up raping Barbara, sometimes multiple times a day. What Multiple times a day? To get raped by your husband. The girl's mother would pull them aside and tell them all about this, but tell them explicit details. What About that? And her sex life? And just go on to talk about how much she hates sex and hates men in general.
Speaker 2:Why would you do that why?
Speaker 1:Your daughters do not need to hear this.
Speaker 2:Why I am so right. Why would you do that Like?
Speaker 1:what purpose does that generally?
Speaker 2:people who do get raped, whether it's by your spouse or not. Don't really want to talk about it, no, cuz it's like a really horrific act.
Speaker 1:No, and especially talking to your kids about their dad doing that. No, no, and it wasn't details like mm-hmm. Uh no, and even when it wasn't about the rape it said she would talk like tell them details about Sexual positions. She told them how many times they had sex on their wedding night. Weird like, just weird stuff. That I feel like even if you have a really good open relationship with your mom, like there's some things that you shouldn't be talking about, and this is like one of those?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very odd, okay. Kath would also later claim that she had also been raped by several family members until she was 11, but this was never reported and never really proven. Okay, so I don't know how true it is. Kath inherited her father's very bad temper and with her upbringing it was a Real bad combination. She was a fiery redhead who people had very mixed feelings about.
Speaker 1:Many people would say that she was so sweet and had a huge heart. She'd help you out in any way that she could and was loyal to a fault. Huh, her sibling said she didn't ever really start fights or bully people. She was always very kind but was never afraid to stand up for herself or finish a fight Interesting. She was strong and would go toe-to-toe with anyone, no matter their size, and so in school the boys would call her names or say mean things about her looks and she would just go off and get into full-blown Fist fights with them. So a lot of the boys that went to school with her ended up being very scared of her.
Speaker 1:They're like, yeah, don't say anything about Kath because she'll beat the shit out of you. Yeah, and then other people said, oh no, that's not true. She was an absolute, absolute monster. She was super vicious, always mean bullying people would start fights with anybody for no apparent reason and weird there. So there's two different versions of her, and Almost everyone, though, agreed that Kath cussed like a sailor and had a temper that was hard to control. It seemed to me, from everything that I read and put together with this case, that she definitely had two sites.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she could be very sweet, but if you crossed her, watch out so it's interesting because you think her siblings would have the most in-depth look at her personality and what she was like, because they like live with her day in and day out. Siblings fight worse than anybody, right yeah especially if you have that many kids in your house. Yeah, and so you think they would be the ones. That's like no, she's terrible, but they, but it's not a.
Speaker 1:She's nice and kind and even after she does everything that she does, they stand by her side, really visit her and talk about how we don't know what happened, because that's not the person that we know.
Speaker 2:Crazy cuz, I know what she does yeah it's not okay, it's not good. It's not good, that's crazy I didn't know that about her siblings, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow. So she struggled in school and did not get very good grades, so she left as soon as she legally could, which in Australia was at age 15, okay. So she applied to work at the Abattoir, which was said to be her dream job, like that's what she aspired to do. She was like really wanting to work here. Her dad and joy already both worked here, as well as one of her brothers. But initially when she applies, she doesn't get the job, so she applies again and then that's when she is hired. So, like we talked about the different jobs, it's basically a man's place. So, yeah, the men get like the higher-up positions and they're the ones that are doing like the killing and the bleeding out, and they call them slicers, so they do all of that work. And then basically, the women have to start at the very bottom, which is called a, a boner.
Speaker 2:My mom was a boner really in Logan at. Yeah, at how just you saying that? Because she were. She told me the war hats that said it on there, but Whatever whatever the work at a place where I have this is boner. Whatever the place is in Logan that Factor like a. This is an avatar, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this does not sound like very fun work to me. No, and I don't know if it's different at different places, but this describes a boner as where they would have to like, basically, because you use every part that you possibly can, okay, of the cow, and so they scrape all the bone marrow out of the bones, oh, and then basically clean up all the other scraps that are left over after it gets to the bottom of the barrel. Okay, so they're that their job is essentially like real shitty work.
Speaker 2:Why do you take the bone marrow like out of the bone fork?
Speaker 1:because people eat bone marrow. I know it's so disgusting, and so there's a lot of places that I don't know how they process it, but they, they, you can like sell the bone marrow.
Speaker 2:I just assumed it was still in the bone when they got it, I guess. So it really is that they scraped it out and then sold it like yeah, yeah, sans bone and you.
Speaker 1:You like bone marrow is used in a lot of like. They dry it and crush it up and put it in supplements and things like that, and so they scrape a lot of that out. There are some bones that they leave it in so people can make like bone broth or whatever it is that they make with that stuff, but a lot of it is scraped out, which I was glad to hear that they literally use every part right animal.
Speaker 1:I'm not going into detail in the book. If you do. If you're not, a fan of this talk.
Speaker 1:It gets a lot worse in the book. So just a heads up. But so Kathy was no different, but she did not mind the work at all. In fact she really enjoyed it and it was just kind of her thing. So she ended up being a really good worker and was very, very quickly promoted to a slicer, which was not common for women. Okay, she was said to Often go visit an older man At the Aventure that did the actual killing of the pigs. Okay, and she was fascinated by this as well, and so she would just go talk to him a lot and just watch him kill the pigs, ask questions about things. She tried to learn a whole lot about her job, which comes in to play later?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's kind of so. Have you seen Boondock Saints? Yes, so. Do you remember like at the beginning of it? There's, he's working like in a meat. Uh-huh, there's that big woman. Yeah.
Speaker 1:She's like that. Yeah, that's what she's like. That's what I'm envisioning is like they may have actually like been like a big woman, like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah and she's not no, but just this woman's like but she does, she will beat the shit out of you, yeah, and it's like such a rough place you have to think about it because it's mostly men, right? So, yeah, men are just like cussing and talking crap about everything and and they say things a lot to the women, yeah, and Kathy does not take it, and so it's. I mean, part of me is like, yeah, I get it, but she takes it way too far, right, yeah, and so it's just not probably not the best environment for someone of her Personality to be in yeah, but she loved it and the death and dismemberment didn't bother her at all.
Speaker 1:Her Brother, who worked there, then introduced her to a man named David Kellett, who also worked at the avatua, and the two hit it off pretty quickly and started dating. Hmm, and when she was just 18 she ended up marrying Kellett and Apparently Kellett was very, very intoxicated one night and proposed to her uh-huh, and then didn't even remember it.
Speaker 2:The next day.
Speaker 1:But Kathy was like oh no, it happened. And I said yes, this is what's happening and so basically like kind of pushes him into getting married. Do you think you really did? I do think she made it.
Speaker 2:I might have made it up, I don't know. She's like he's super drunk. I bet I can.
Speaker 1:I can do this yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, either way, that would be. So, like, even if it's someone you're dating, but like you're not there yet, right, and you like, all of a sudden, you like get drunk one night in the next day, like you're engaged to be married and it's like yeah it's not recommended People, because I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 1:Don't get any ideas from this, you girls that have been dating someone for a while. Don't get them drunk and like tell them that they proposed to you because it's not gonna work out.
Speaker 2:No, no, forcing someone into that is not the best way to go about it. No, I'll trap you if I have to.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, and that, and it seems like that should what she did. But who knows, who knows, we were not there, nope. But so Kathy held holds them to his proposal and in 1974 the two got hitched and Kella had been drinking very heavily the day of their wedding as well. And so when they, they just decided to go to the courthouse to get married, but they picked a day, everything. So on the day when the day arrives, they go to drive to the courthouse and kill. It's too drunk drunk to drive. So Kathy ends up driving them there on her motorbike and he's riding back like holding on to her, and I was like this is like just, I mean, just imagine this and he's shit.
Speaker 1:It's a big scary Female that everyone's like terrified. Yeah, just fights and cusses.
Speaker 1:And and then this guy who's shorter than her and like wrapped around her on her motorbike To go get married, yeah, and so she invited one of her brothers I think it was the brother that introduced them, okay, and he had one person like one of his friends there but neither of them Invited their parents or other siblings, and in fact, kathy had never even met her in-laws. Oh, she didn't meet them until two months after their wedding. Oh, okay, so on their wedding night, the two consummate their marriage, like immediately after they are married, and Throughout the night, kathy kept waking him up because he was so drunk that they, like, had sex. He passed out. She wakes him up for round two. They have sex. He passes out again.
Speaker 1:Okay, they, she did this. They had actual sex four times, but this still wasn't enough for her. So the last time that he passed out, after the fourth time, she got pissed. And the next time that Kellett woke up, his new bride's hands were wrapped firmly around his neck and she was trying to choke him. What and it all? It all stemmed from her mom telling her that they had consummated their marriage or had sex on their wedding night five times, and so she was trying to beat her mom.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm okay. I am the first one to be all about Some fun playtime at any moment of your relationship. I am always down for that right, but, like Four, five times, I am too old for that.
Speaker 1:I am too.
Speaker 2:I want to stay as yeah like I can't go that long, like I am bad at a breath and like not doing much anymore and like yeah, it's just not gonna but you got to remember she's 18 too, oh your sex drives pretty high. I think I'm more high now than older, but she's 18, so that's a little bit different. I could have sex a lot more, yeah, for longer, yeah, even just several years ago.
Speaker 1:So, right, every year I'm 40, go a little bit downhill Still down.
Speaker 2:I'm still down for it, but it's just not. It's not as often.
Speaker 1:Not that many times, yeah, and especially like a marathon, like that, or fight five times in one night.
Speaker 2:No, no, especially if it's like you got a break in between, like your dragon, this shit on like let's just do it all one big like Harrah and then be done for tonight and go to bed but can you imagine just getting married and then waking up to someone choking you because you Fell asleep after you had sex?
Speaker 1:with them four times, like good lord woman. So this would be just the beginning of their tumultuous relationship. The two fought often, and about a year into their marriage, things were already pretty rocky. Kelly was about to leave and wanted a divorce, but Kathy got pregnant, of course, so he stuck around to see if they could work it out. It didn't last long, though, because while she was still pregnant, things got so bad that he started having an affair with another woman and she also gets pregnant. Oh no. So Kathy gave birth to their daughter, melissa, in 1976, and shortly after, kelly ended up leaving her to be with his mistress, who was still pregnant.
Speaker 1:Okay, and she ends up going on to deliver a baby boy. So this is right after she just delivered, and he leaves her, and this enrages Kathy. Their babies like two months old, and so, unfortunately, though, she kind of takes it out a little bit on the baby. Oh. So she ends up carrying her two-month-old child down to the train tracks, and she had her all swaddled up and she just left her lying in the middle of the tracks, knowing that a train would be coming by soon, and just walks away. No, two-months old. Luckily, a local man saw the infant on the tracks Ran down to grab her just a few minutes before the train went by. So they're trying to kind of figure out, like whose kid is this? What's happening? And in the meantime, kathy goes into town and starts a scene with the other local town's people and has an axe, which I don't know where she got the axe, but she's like wielding an axe, swinging it around, screaming at people like she just lost her damn mind.
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean police, postpartum is yes, yes, and that is actually what people think happened.
Speaker 1:So the police get called and she's taken to the hospital and they figured that she was suffering from a severe postpartum depression.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even a psychosis. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in August 1976, so shortly after this, this event. So she's like released from the hospital, okay. And then she goes over to a neighbor's house and she starts begging for a ride because she needs to go to the doctor, because Melissa is really sick. And the neighbors like absolutely, I'll go grab my car and I'll pull around to pick you guys up. Yeah, so she picks up Kathy and she has her teenagers with her, she has two teenage kids with her and After they start driving, all of a sudden Kathy just pulls out a knife and Slices the 16 year old girl in the face what? And basically like holds them at knife point and tells them oh, we're not going to the hospital, you're taking me to Kellett's house, her husband's house, oh, okay. So the mom's like okay, like I'll take you wherever you want.
Speaker 2:Like just put the knife down slicing people.
Speaker 1:I have to get gas. So they pull in to get gas and just take off. But, kathy, this does not stop her. So she just runs into the gas station and grabs an even younger boy, like a little boy who Is less than a teenager I think he was like six or seven, oh at the gas station and holds him at knife point, which I don't know what her plan was here. But the police were again called and this time she's taken into a mental facility, yeah, be evaluated, and she ends up getting admitted there. So at this point they do a full assessment on her and she was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Okay, which, if you remember, we've covered it in another case, but it's a mental health condition that affects sort of how you see yourself and others, and Most people with borderline personality have a strong, strong fear of abandonment. They tend to have very unstable and intense relationships and they're very impulsive and extremely emotional.
Speaker 2:Okay, so borderline personality, is that Anything similar to like split personality agree of no, where you have other people in you know? It's different because I remember like it used to be called split personality, but then they call it was a dissociative identity. Yeah, they change the name and I don't change it.
Speaker 1:Okay, no, that's. That's is completely different. So borderline personality is just like in split personality Sometimes you don't know. Yeah, multiple personality, you don't know which person it is right and you don't know about your other identities. This is not the same. They have complete, like it's one person. They just fly off the handle and are very impulsive.
Speaker 2:To me it's more similar to like by what's that like when they're in that manic phase?
Speaker 1:Okay, Um, but they're more angry. So like manic people can tend to get like very happy, yeah, like bubbly and great and then they suddenly have that like drop and cycle. That way, yeah, borderline personality is more just like. It's not so much the cyclic, it's more just like like I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, fly off the handle, and then I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine again.
Speaker 2:And it's not like a depressive thing too, Like where you bipolar generally you have like either supermanic and superdepressive or there is depression with this, but not as the extreme as bipolar yeah.
Speaker 1:But I would say that it's maybe the closest to that. Okay, and so Kella and his mom end up showing up to visit her, and when that was nice of him, I know and when she gets discharged, they both are there to pick her up. So while she's in the hospital, her parents end up taking Melissa to care for her. Yeah, and so when she gets out, of the hospital.
Speaker 2:Why was it her dad take her?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Okay, I truly don't. Maybe his girlfriend wouldn't allow Because he's got another mistress, yeah, yeah. Well, by the time that she's discharged, the two have kind of rekindled things and he actually ends it with his mistress oh my God, okay and decides he's going to give it a shot with Kathy again.
Speaker 1:So they go to pick up Melissa and they pull up to her parents' house and, if you remember, barbara is kind of a man hater, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And she ends up blaming everything that happened with her daughter on Kelet, because he cheated on her, he had a mistress, he got another woman pregnant, like I mean, there's some shit that went down, yeah, but she blames it all on him. And so, as soon as they pull up, kathy runs into the house to grab Melissa and Barbara books it to the car and starts attacking Kelet oh no, punching him, scratching him, and his mom is like this is like the first time she's actually really like been around them, oh no, and is like what is happening, like she's just in shock. And so Kathy looks out the window and sees her mom attacking Kelet and she's, like we said, very loyal to a fault, right, and if that's her man, she's not taking anybody's shit. So she runs out and cold cocks her mom, punches her and knocks her down to the ground and then yells at her to never touch David again. And then she grabs Melissa, gets in the car and they drive home Like they're just some big happy family.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking and just like that they're together. How bad was his relationship with his mistress, that he wanted to go pick up his crazy wife out of the mental hospital, that just put your baby on a train track and has, like, choked you on your wedding night, and I'm sure a plethora of other things. Yeah, and that's what you want to go back to.
Speaker 1:Well, and in my mind I have to think like okay, maybe he was just worried about the child, maybe he's like you know I owe it to her to give this another shot, Because sometimes you love broken people yeah. I and I and I'm sure he felt like some responsibility for that Right Like this happened right after I left her on postpartum to like some shit things.
Speaker 2:If she ever uses that against him to like post this postpartum yeah it's. You know which is very? I mean, I had postpartum and like it is a very serious thing. It's very serious. I didn't have like I didn't harm myself for my child, but I definitely had this pretty bad, and so I am very. I know it's very serious, but I could see her also using that as like.
Speaker 1:Oh absolutely, and I'm sure that she made him feel guilty as shit and hung this over his head for a real long time. Oh, can you imagine? And she'll take this on to all of her other relationships.
Speaker 2:I just can't even imagine, like just trying to picture the whole scene.
Speaker 1:Like. Can you imagine being the mom and being like? I just picked my daughter a lot up from the mental house, the baby. What is happening this?
Speaker 2:woman comes running out and attacks your son.
Speaker 1:Son, can we rethink our life choices?
Speaker 2:right now, please Like. Well, I know where she gets it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:She was a bad combination of her mom and dad, I think, because she got a little bit of the manipulation and manhating from her mom and then the temper of her dad.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like as a parent, don't you ever look at your kids and you're like man. They got all the best parts of me. Like they're so you know, like all of the things I wish I could have been. And like my kids, they have that and you're like so proud of them.
Speaker 1:And then like she's like, she's the one.
Speaker 2:She's the one who's like you got all the shit parts girl. All the shit parts. I mean there's got to be one out of the eight kids Right Got all of that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's it. We were just talking about this, right? Yeah, there's always one and she's it. So things went well for a while, but then they of course got worse again. Kathy had a really short fuse and would end up hitting and beating on Kelet anytime the couple got in a fight. She even had Kelet like mount some of her knives from the Abattoir onto a board and put them in her bedroom and said that she just liked to look at them, but he said he was very fearful that she would eventually use them. Honey, I got a.
Speaker 2:DIY home project. It's not funny, but it's like so like.
Speaker 1:So off the wall, that can you?
Speaker 2:even imagine. No, this poor guy, he's like sure I'll do it.
Speaker 1:He's like terrified which knives do you want hung up in our bedroom?
Speaker 2:Which ones are going to be used to murder me Like?
Speaker 1:that's terrifying, right, it's nuts. So Kathy then ended up going outside the marriage as well, because things were not good, yeah, and she could not really forget what he had done to her. And so she starts having an affair and she's caught by Kelet, which caused a lot of problems. But then the couple makes up again and they end up having a bandaid baby.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 1:Natasha, their second daughter, is born on March 6th 1980. And the family ends up moving. So during this time they had moved a couple times after she got out of the hospital and so they moved to another smaller town. It's all around that Aberdeen area. But they moved to another small town hoping it would be a fresh start and would just help their marriage. It didn't.
Speaker 2:No because she's still there. It didn't work. You guys are both still there.
Speaker 1:So, spoiler alert, it didn't happen. So one time Kelet came home from playing darts and he was 15 minutes later than he told Kathy he was going to be and she was waiting for him. And as soon as he walked through the door she hit him so hard in the head with a frying pan that it knocked him out cold. Yeah, it was like a cast iron pan Knocked him out cold and he had to stay in the hospital for four days with a head injury.
Speaker 2:That's like a cartoon. Four days I mean.
Speaker 1:Cast iron pans are heavy and he didn't even have a chance to say anything Like he walked through the door and she just popped right in the head.
Speaker 2:I mean that like really could have just killed him in one shot, yeah, and he just didn't even have like that thought of like.
Speaker 1:I would love to do this. I would even cause severe brain damage.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to because that would be crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she does not have that thought process. No, that Wow. Another time Kathy ends up pulling a knife not the one from their bedrooms, but a different one on Kelet, and held the knife to his throat, convinced that he was having another affair. And all Kathy said was see how easy it is. Oh, she's scary. She's so scary Like I could kill you right now. See how easy it would be.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's all she said, nope. So he swore to her that he was not cheating.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But she remained suspicious, which he still says to this day that only a fair he had was the first one that she knew about. Wow, a couple of weeks later, when Kelet got home from work, kathy was like you know what? You've had a long week, it's been stressful. Why don't you go play darts? She knew that. That was like what calmed him down. Okay, and sometimes she's really nice, right, you got to remember that. Yeah, sometimes she's really nice. People don't stay in shit relationships if there's no good to balance it out, right For sure?
Speaker 2:Typically yes.
Speaker 1:So I talk about a lot of the bad things that she does, but you got to remember she does nice things too. Yeah, so he gets home and she's very nice and is you know, just go play darts, go get out of the house with your friends. So he's like really Okay. So he leaves. As soon as he gets to the bar there's a phone call for him and it's Kathy and she says you better get home now because I'm burning all of your clothes. Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:She is something, she's too much.
Speaker 1:She's way too much. Oh my God, she's like too much plus a thousand, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Like I don't even the mind games that. Ptsd he's going to, he has to have after this relationship of like, are you sure I can go? Like you're not going to burn my clothes right Like as soon as I leave?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So he's like, no, this isn't happening. So he hangs up, goes back home. She had burnt every piece of clothing that he owned other than what he was wearing. Wow, Burned them to a crisp.
Speaker 2:Wow, can you imagine your mom behaving now?
Speaker 1:No, like you have two kids, like you are literally watching your mom tell your dad to go to the bar.
Speaker 2:go get out with your friends, Fine.
Speaker 1:Please, you need a boys night. She burns all of your dad's clothes and then it's like that dick and just wow, lighter fluid and a match no Done. No, I cannot imagine Like none of this is even fathomable to me no, the way she treats people. So in 1983, kathy attacked him again and hit him with a sharpening steel, which is like what you sharpen knives with. Okay, yeah, like a big metal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, block.
Speaker 1:Block and he had to be hospitalized again. Wow, and he said that he never reported any of this abuse. Because abuse? Because he was so worried about the girls and what would happen to them. So Sad. Shortly after this, he came home and the house was just empty. Kathy had moved out and taken everything, Every piece of furniture, like just literally left an empty house and she was. She was done so.
Speaker 2:Kelly was like, thank God, right, yeah, I think at that point I'd be like that's completely fine. He did not fight for her, me and my one outfit that I have.
Speaker 1:He's out. I'm going to go buy some clothes, yeah, yeah. So she took everything and moved in with her parents again and then ends up divorcing Kelly in 1984 after eight years of marriage. Wow, can you imagine like it literally started your honeymoon with her, choking you, yeah, and then all the shit that you endured for eight years, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I can't. No, that's, it's bad. He needed some serious trauma therapy after that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So she started working in Aberdeen again as a slicer and eventually she gets a place for her and her girls and she started dating. But nothing really stuck because at this point she was actually focused on her kids and she was being very picky with who she was dating. Now that she was a single mom, Her daughters and siblings said she ended up being a really, really good mom. Despite the issues that she had early on and all of her temper issues. Okay, she was very protective and loving and she's they said that she was always just like very supportive of them and never like abusive to the kids, which is something Right.
Speaker 1:She ended up losing her job at the Abattoir due to a back injury that she got and had to move closer to town and actually purchased a little house, and this is where she ended up meeting a man named David Saunders in 1986. And so the two started dating and things were really good with them for a while as well. But then Kathy's temper started to flare once again. The littlest things started to set Kathy off and when her temper would flare she would again become very violent and abusive towards David, hitting, pushing and kicking him. They would get into physical altercations often and Kathy would always kick David out of the house because she kind of had her own house, oh yeah. And then he has his own place, which they refer to as a flat. He has a flat that he would go stay there for a couple of days just to let her cool down and get out of her hair and like deescalate.
Speaker 1:And then, every time, though, kathy would be knocking at his door telling him like, begging him to come back, and she would always be able to lure him back with sex and promise of change. Okay, kathy was a very, very sexual person, as we learned earlier, and she used this as a weapon to get men and to get them to forgive her. All right, she would have sex with her partners most of the time, every day, and sometimes several times a day, which made it very hard to resist for a man. Yeah, so things would be good for a time, and then the fights would start again, and it was a pretty vicious cycle. And then Kat's mom passed away right before Christmas in 1986, and Kat did not do well with this at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, although the two had fought and had kind of a tumultuous relationship, yeah, they were very, very close, and, as she had gotten older, they had developed a really good relationship as adults, and Kathy had really, really loved her mom. She felt like she was one of the people that she could really count on, and she struggled more than anyone thought she would with her death. Okay, this led to an even more emotional Kathy, if that's possible, which is terrifying Absolutely. In May of 1987, they had gotten into another huge fight and David had been at his apartment and Kathy comes knocking at the door begging him to come home. So he agrees and he's like all right, I'll be there in a little bit. He's packing his things and as soon as he walks through the door, kathy attacks him for no reason and starts pushing and hitting him, accusing him of having an affair. Okay, so it always stems back to somebody cheating on her. Okay, like she's very, very self-conscious about this yeah.
Speaker 1:And he claims that he pushed her back and that's when she started screaming at him that she was pregnant and started claiming that he had kicked her in the stomach with still toe boots. Oh, a story that she would tell several times over the years. David claims this never happened. He's like I never kicked her. I did push her to get off of me, but he claims that their entire relationship. He never initiated the violence, but he does admit that he would push or hit her back to defend himself or get her off of him. Wow, this fight escalated and after she yelled at him for kicking her in the stomach, she flew into even more of a rage and grabbed one of her carving knives oh no and walked into the backyard. David had just gotten a full-bread dingo puppy that he absolutely adored. Oh no, kathy walks into the backyard, grabbed the eight-week-old puppy and slit its throat, killing it in cold blood right in front of David.
Speaker 2:Okay, you have a severe anger problem.
Speaker 1:You're a monster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is not like A monster. That is not normal, like I'm pissed off at you behavior. No, to kill a puppy.
Speaker 1:No, that's terrible oh.
Speaker 2:It's terrible. You're a little baby.
Speaker 1:I know. She then walked back into the house and said that's what I think of you. Oh okay, crazy pants, all right. How do you stay with someone like this? I mean that this is extreme.
Speaker 2:That would absolutely be my-. I would be so terrified of that person. Yeah, After that like-.
Speaker 1:I would be terrified of all the-. So after this happens, she picks up the phone and she calls the police and she reports that David had abused her and kicked her in the stomach and and that's why she killed the pup and the cops did nothing.
Speaker 2:I still don't know that that warrant's killing a puppy. No Like Even if he did Call me wrong there but like-. That puppy didn't do anything to you. No, I don't I still don't think that warrants that you kill a puppy. No, or anything.
Speaker 1:Like no, but in her mind it's always like this revenge, right, yeah, Like somebody does something to her and she has to get her revenge on them. She always has to have the last word and like one up anything bad that has been done to her. So David went back home after that, like went back to his apartment, and later Kathy goes over to his house and vandalizes his car the same night. Oh okay, and this was not the first time that the couple had called the police During their time, they both took out what are called AVOs, which stands for Apprehended Violence Order.
Speaker 1:And this is basically like a protective order, where there's different ones, but they each have specific conditions associated with them, and that could be including from like restraining from any contact, like they have to be within so many they can't be within so many feet of you, they can't call you, they have to refrain from any form of threat or intimidation. So it is just like a protective order.
Speaker 1:It's like a protective order, but there's different levels. So like if you get one, like sometimes you can still have contact with that person, but they can't threaten you. It's like a weird thing. So they're not like all one, like they're not all alike, and then if you violate it you can get fines or imprisonment. But we all know how well these work, right Like they don't work. So somehow David goes back to her again, even after she killed his puppy. Wow, she must have like platinum vagina people. I don't understand something.
Speaker 1:Yes, she's having sex with you, but no sex. Is this good? No, I mean they say crazy person sex is like some of the best sex you can have.
Speaker 2:It's not worth this. There's no sex. That's that good that, like they can kill your puppy and you're like that's okay and you're like okay.
Speaker 1:No biggie, no. So a few months after they get back together they get into another big fight after picking up one of David's friends from the airport and the his friend is like in the back seat and she just starts beating the shit out of David in the car and his friend has to like restrain her and so when she got home she ends up taking a bunch of pills and tried to kill herself, oh my God. And so she's taken to the hospital and later admitted again to another mental facility and get this. She was really pissed because he had kicked her in the stomach because she was pregnant. She wasn't pregnant. Yeah, oh, I'm sure she claimed to be pregnant and, like, thrown this big fit. She wasn't pregnant. But she did actually get pregnant later that same year, in 1987, and gave birth to another little girl, which they named Sarah In June of 1988.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the cycle continues and it's just escalating. With every fight David would show up to work with cuts and bruises all over his face and everyone at work Knew that the relationship was abusive. Again, david claims he never starts it, but one of Kath's daughters would later say that he beat on her often. So they say it was two-sided. Okay, and it wasn't just him Like protecting himself. Okay.
Speaker 1:So one day David's like okay, kathy needs a break, she's overwhelmed. So she, he takes all of the girls swimming and just gives her like a day to just be herself, uh-huh, and have some me time, which is really nice, yeah. So he takes them swimming and then he drops them off back at home and then he decides to go out and grab a couple of beers with friends, and so when he gets done with that, he walks in the door and she slams him in the head again, but this time it's with an iron. Oh, geez, and he falls to the ground and she stands over him and just beats the shit out of him with an iron.
Speaker 1:Wow, because she was upset, because she had wanted him to come home and do something with her and he didn't. He went out to the bar. Okay, so he leaves, and he did leave for a longer period this time, but Kath was able to coax him to come back. I'm using sex again as a makeup technique. Wow, at the end of 1988, another fight escalated and Kathy grabbed a pair of scissors and Stabbed him in the stomach. Oh, with a pair of scissors.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I Can't even he, they were stuck in there and he didn't want to go to the hospital. So he had to go to a friend's house who had to help him pull out no scissors from his stomach, nope, no. And luckily nothing was seriously damaged and he didn't report this because again he was scared that of what was gonna happen to the children.
Speaker 1:She stabbed you in the stomach right Like I would be scared of what's gonna happen to the kids if you stay there. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be murdered. Understand the thought process.
Speaker 2:She has hit you over the head with a cast iron frying pan. She has beat you with an iron. She has burned all of your clothes. She's killed your puppy. She stabbed you in the stomach We've talked about. I mean, it's the same, I guess, like DV cycle, yep, whether it's a man or woman, exactly.
Speaker 1:We've talked about the cycle and it's like harder than you think to get away, especially when you have kids.
Speaker 2:So I mean. I guess I mean I guess it is I just always think of, like men is like being the Stronger one right, like less likely to I don't know. Put up with that crap, yeah, and like you can leave and she's not gonna.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but she's very very. Impulative, yeah. And when things are good, they're so good, yeah. And then it's just like drop of a hat and she turns into this violent maniac.
Speaker 2:So scary, it's terrifying, and then you are kind of brainwashed a little bit as the victim in in all of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so sad which we haven't really talked about, a lot of like male victims, no.
Speaker 2:DV but this.
Speaker 1:These men are victims, oh for sure, like this is insane, that's scary, it's terrifying. So in 1989, when she finally received a settlement for her back injury if you remember, she got injured at work and So- she couldn't work anymore. So she gets this settlement for her back and so she ends up paying off her house, which gave her more financial freedom, and so she didn't really feel like she needed a man to kind of help with bills as much Right more.
Speaker 1:She ends up decorating her house In tire house they said even the rafters were covered with things after she pays it off and she decorates it with animal skins, horns, skulls, of course, knives and old like metal animal traps. She also owned mostly horror movies and experts later said that this could have been considered Necromania or an obsession with death, because everything around her was death related. Yeah, but to me it just seems kind of normal, like coming from a small town where people are hunters. Well, a lot of people have like Animal heads and skins and like swords and knives and bows and like that's how they decorate their house, and I don't think any of this seems too weird.
Speaker 2:No, and there's plenty of people who own mostly horror movies and they have like, maybe you know, weird like, like horror memorabilia and that kind of stuff and they're not and they're not crazy murderous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a psychiatrist actually did later go on to say that most people who have these things in their house and like watch horror movies and it's like their favorite genre and or they do things like us where we're like obsessed with true crime, yeah, they have like a normal reaction. Yeah, but for some people when they Get this in their mind and they're they just have that thing in their brain, it became it basically fuels like violent Fantasies and they get fixated on right gruesome scenes in the movies and then they like try and figure out how they can play that out in their own lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and those people?
Speaker 1:I think they, their minds were already kind of broken, and then this stuff that's not caused by watching horror movies it was already there, and then that's what he says to me, says this is it's just like they've gone back and forth with violent video games right.
Speaker 1:Like, does that make people go off the rails and shoot people? No, it does not. No, but you know anyways. So David's dad then passed away of cancer and he was really close to his dad, so he was devastated and his dad ends up leaving him a bunch of clothes and in the book they just call him balls, like left him some balls. But from what? The way they just I know the way they describe leave them, my balls, the way they describe it. They don't actually say it, so I don't know. Maybe our Australian listeners can let us know. If there's like a game, it sounds kind of like croquet, like a croquet set. Okay, because he said it says later that they go, they take this, the balls that His dad left him, and they like to go to the park and play this game where they're like hitting it with a stick, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:So to me it seems like Dad's balls, but yeah, I don't know exactly what it was, but anyways. So they get to the park and David is playing whatever game this is, and Kathy just has her little chair on the side and is watching and cheering on her man and From the outside there were several people there and said it just looked like they were having such a fun day together, like a really good day-date.
Speaker 1:They were both smiling, laughing. So David's playing his game and then all of a sudden, kathy just like gets up and suddenly leaves, and Before the game was over. And so David like finishes this game up and Goes home. And she was livid at something he says even to this day. He has no idea what set her off or why she was upset, but she had locked him out of the house. And so he's like no, I live here too, and so, yeah, which really he has his own place, but whatever. So he kind of busts in the door and Goes inside the house, and so she's like, oh hell, no. So she calls his mom. She picks up the phone and calls his mom and is like come get your son right now, and then hangs up. And as soon as she hangs up the phone she grabs a knife and Cuts his face with the knife.
Speaker 1:Stop, she has this pattern it's like let me slice you, let me hit you over the head with something like your face. Yeah, kathy, stop. So by the time his mom gets there to pick him up, he's already like covered in blood from this, yeah, yeah. And so his mom gets, takes him home and get some cleaned up, and Shortly after, though, kathy's like no, I'm really sorry, I don't know what happened. We had such a good day together. They have sex, he's. She's like just come home, Just come home, I'll be there. So, yet again, he comes home and he walks into their house and went to change his clothes, because he has just has his clothes that he had on Him, yeah, and they're all bloody. So he goes to change his clothes and he's his clothes are gone. And he's like where are my clothes? And she's like what clothes?
Speaker 2:Oh my god, oh, I can't, I cannot with her, I cannot. What clothes, what?
Speaker 1:is happening in her mind. Listen to this. This bitch cut up, cut up into pieces Every article of clothing he had, including the clothes his dead father had just left.
Speaker 2:She is terrible she's terrible. This is his second wardrobe. She's done this too right, or was that?
Speaker 1:the other. That was the first one, okay, that was the first one, so the first husband was she burned all those clothes, burned all of his clothes and hit him with the cast iron and did another head injury that he was hospitalized this one. She hit with the iron and Killed this puppy and stab kill this puppy.
Speaker 1:Oh no, the iron was the other guy too, I think. Now I can't remember. But yes, kill this puppy, stabbed him in the stomach and is now cut up his entire wardrobe into little pieces, putting his down stuff, including his Everything his dead father had just left him. That's awful. You cannot get any of that back. No, like that is the most horrific Thing yeah, like how devastating and he's still grieving the loss of his dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she does something like that, Wow. And and he still has no clue why they were literally playing this ballgame at the park Having fun laughing she was like cheering him on Having a great day together in sunny Australia and then she just like lost it. Wow, for no reason, I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's something, not even imagine, when they diagnosed her with borderline personality, did they give her medication?
Speaker 1:She was on medication, obviously not a combination that was working well for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, yeah wow.
Speaker 1:So that was finally the last straw for David and he actually created a more of a plan this time and he moved to Newcastle, which is a bigger city, okay, because he knew it would be difficult to find him. So he ended up quitting his job like he quit his job and he moved Like ran away, wow. But of course they have a daughter together, they have little Sarah, and so he just leaves her there, like all these guys are terrified of her and they just leave their children with her, which I don't understand and I guess cuz she has never been mean to the kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but still like the kids are witnessing all of this crazy shit which is Detrimental to them and if you don't have a spouse to abuse, I Would be afraid that it was gonna go going to be the kid turn into the kids. Yeah, luckily it's never that, but but she does a lot of mental abuse to somebody for sure. I mean just witnessing that stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It gets real bad. So, kathy, it does not give up easily and she ends up searching for him. Wow, like so scary Mm-hmm See. She looks far and wide but she cannot find him, she can't locate him. He has. He has to cut off contact with Sarah because he doesn't want her to find him.
Speaker 1:So to get revenge on him. Kathy tells their daughter that her dad had died. What, okay? Tells her that her dad's dead. Poor Sarah Like and I think she's pretty young at this time, yeah, like, but still she may not have even understood. But then she has her two other older daughters that are definitely old enough to understand and she just told all of them that he had died, like someone that had just been in their life for a long time, like years, and she's like yeah, your dad's dead. Oh, okay, it's just cruel, like the way that she does it.
Speaker 1:She's just very cruel, cruel person.
Speaker 2:A lot of mental gymnastics there, yeah.
Speaker 1:She was, like I said, described as a very loving and protective mom, but to me it seems like she just doesn't give a shit about anybody and just manipulates her child's emotions, I think people have a hard time admitting fault of their parents sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm learning a little bit about that with my own life and stuff and it's hard because you love your parents. It's true. And you know, you see the good in them and all that stuff, and I think it's hard to maybe admit as a child that, like your mom was bad, shit, crazy, yeah, and she did some stuff that was like definitely not okay, not okay, and she wasn't a good mom to you, no, so no, I hope that they realize that now.
Speaker 1:But you can still love your mom and still like see the good in her, but like everybody has good traits and bad traits and everybody has shitty things in their childhood and good things in their childhood and you can hold on to those good things.
Speaker 1:But it's okay to also admit that there were things that should not have happened to you, yeah, especially things like this, like it is okay to say that your mom was a shit mom, yeah, and you know, yeah, that's okay, it's okay, that's so sad, it's really sad. Her first husband, kelet, also said that after he left he had to go to another town to get away from her also, they all had to run away.
Speaker 1:They all had to run away and he gets hired as a truck driver and he would send letters and gifts to his girls often. He really loved his kids, especially on their birthdays or holidays. He was known to send these big like bouquets of flowers and would try and call the house, but Kathy would always get there first, wouldn't let him speak to them, would throw out all of the things that he had sent to the girls and then just told the girls that nope, sorry, he didn't send anything, he doesn't care about you anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep, okay, yep. She's like putting the nail in the coffin, like she is not okay.
Speaker 1:No, that's not okay at all. And the girls end up not finding out that yeah, not finding out that this was true until they were Melissa was 16. So the other one would have been close to 13. Yeah, when they finally reconnected with their dad. So they didn't see him for years. So after David goes AWOL and Kathy can't find him, she moves on to another man named John Chillingworth.
Speaker 1:Now these two had known each other since Kathy had started working in the Abattoir when she was 16. But John had moved away and had just returned 20 years later. So Kathy was 36 and John was 43. And they started dating, but it was more of like a casual thing. She picked him up at a bar and they slept together like a drunken night and then eventually they just started getting together a few times a week to hang out and they'd have sex and party and then they would just kind of go about their business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she never really wanted John to move in and didn't really want to get serious. She was just looking for more of a fling, okay, but John was wanting something more serious with her. John had heard rumors about Kathy from his friends and they had warned him all about her and her temper and all the shit that she had pulled and how she really treats her men. But that didn't stop him. He seemed more into her than she was into him and soon he thought that he was really, really in love. Two months into their relationship or situation ship.
Speaker 1:Kathy got pregnant with a little boy and John was thrilled because he was not a father and so he was like really, really excited to finally be a dad. Yeah, but this relationship was no different, with the fighting and the two fought. Often Her ex, david Saunders, ended up coming back into town and David or and Kathy had an affair with him. Oh geez, david.
Speaker 2:I know, David oh.
Speaker 1:David. She told John all about it, like she didn't try and hide it. She came in and was like, yeah, so David came into town and we had sex, and so she's like I think we need to just break up like she wasn't into this situation it seems like. But John begged her not to leave. Wow, which was the opposite of any other man that she's been with.
Speaker 1:She was typically the one that was begging them not to leave her. Yeah, so this was kind of attractive to her, but kind of not at the same time. Okay, yeah, her girls were older now. Melissa was 14 and she did not get along with John. Once John backhanded Melissa for back talking her mom, and this pissed Kathy off so much. Yeah, so that night while John slept, she broke his dentures into tiny pieces. Yeah, he had dentures at 40. What was he?
Speaker 2:43 or 46?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he had two pairs of dentures and she broke both of them so he had no teeth. And then he, at one point she also smashed his glasses so he couldn't see and he had no teeth, so much.
Speaker 2:Oh, terrible. Okay, First of all, I might break his dentures because, like, don't put your hands on my kid, like that's my job, right, you can say, like, you can say something I'm okay with, like hey.
Speaker 1:I want you to talk to your mom, but you're not gonna put your hands on my kid.
Speaker 2:Like that's my decision. If I'm gonna, if anyone's gonna hit my kid, it's gonna be the one that brought her into this world, right.
Speaker 1:Or helped make her, or whatever. I agree with that completely so.
Speaker 2:I might break his dentures for that, but like I mean, a girl's got to see like I need my glasses. I can't just be going places without my glasses.
Speaker 1:So I'm totally blind and I don't have extra ones, and if my glasses got broke I would be so screwed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have extra. I have one pair of glasses, I have my sunglasses. I couldn't even.
Speaker 1:I have to Uber to the eye doctor because I can't even see it. So I'm like Mr Magoo people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are, you are. I can't. My eyes are like getting so bad though Like the older I get especially. And yeah, like you have no teeth.
Speaker 1:It's not funny, you guys, but it's funny, like it's just. It's not funny, but it's like comical, because it's yeah, it's so over the top, like this is a real life person. She just tries. She's like oh, you know what Physical abuse isn't quite enough, Now I'm going to start hitting people where it really hurts. Yeah, I'm going to cut up people's clothes.
Speaker 2:And I'm definitely does the mental. Yeah, it's like abuse.
Speaker 1:And it's just escalating right. It started initially just like as physical stuff, and then it's just like now. It's like trying to hit people where it really hurts. I'm just like, mental abuse is like we sometimes be worse than like the physical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because like physical I mean it's terrible, it's awful.
Speaker 1:It is awful.
Speaker 2:But like the mental, there's not a good type of abuse. No, like mental I feel, like like your physical. I guess there is a mental part to the physical abuse to. But whatever mental part is is like that's what lasts the longest, like it messes you up in like all sorts of different ways. Bruises don't ever really heal right, like they leave a definite like mental mark on you yeah.
Speaker 1:But this is like another level. It's like mindfuckery at its finest. So bad, yeah. It's like like it really is insane. It's nuts. I just I can't even imagine like my heart goes out to all of these men who were especially because men don't speak up against like abuse, right?
Speaker 2:You know? Like I said with the other guy, rough small town right.
Speaker 1:So, people are supposed to be like these strong manly men. They don't have like feminine men in this area. No it's not, and not saying that that's like. It's like I'm not saying that men who are feminine get abused more, no, or speak out more, but in this environment it's definitely more like they don't talk about any of this because that's just not what you do in this area. I think it's really dependent on where you are in your support system, right Well?
Speaker 2:in the timeframe too. Like, yeah, nowadays people are getting more open with, like mental health and, like you know, abuse and, like you know, trying to like kind of equalize everything for everybody, right, which can be good in a lot of aspects, but back like in the 90s and 80s, and all that time like men didn't talk about, like people would make fun of you if you were saying that your girlfriend or wife was beating you up.
Speaker 2:They'd be like okay, well, you can't handle that. Like what is happening, Like it would not be like your girlfriend's, stronger than you, yeah like it would be this whole thing. Are you not man enough?
Speaker 1:And really it's like scary, it's terrifying, whether you're a man or a woman like this is a person that's supposed to love you. This has nothing to do with being man enough or she's just next level.
Speaker 2:I mean you literally don't like. What am I going to do that's going to set her off, that's going to make her do something so outlandish that you probably can't even think of what it would be Right. And you don't know, like David said, like I don't even know why, to this day, that she was mad and flipped out and cut up all my clothes and sliced my face. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's crazy. So things were very off and on in this relationship, but it wasn't as physically violent as previous relationships. She was just more of the mental abuse of stuff like we just kind of talked about. She would go on to tell him that the baby wasn't his. She would say nasty things about his family.
Speaker 2:This is the little boy right that they had, or is she pregnant again? This is a little boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, they haven't had him yet.
Speaker 2:So she's still pregnant.
Speaker 1:She's like this kid's not even yours. I don't even know why you're sticking around. I had a affair with so-and-so. It's his kid. You're excited to be a dad, but you're not even really a dad. I mean she would just go in on him.
Speaker 2:Those are the women that. Then she has the kid and he's like I don't want to take care of her because I don't even know what's mine. And then they're like why would you say that? That's so mean, exactly Because you've been telling me this whole time that it's not mine. You want a paternity test what?
Speaker 1:Yeah, women like this, I don't get it. Bitches be crazy, bitches be crazy. In 1991 is when she gave birth to their son, eric, and soon after the couple's fighting turned violent. So it kind of seemed like she was just not violent because she was pregnant, okay. And then as soon as she delivers it turns violent again. And this is her fifth kid, right Fourth. So she has Melissa, natasha, sarah.
Speaker 2:Eric. Oh okay, Fourth kid.
Speaker 1:Yep. So she ends up taking out an AVO after they got into a fight and John backhanded her twice and Kathy punched him. Okay, so they split up for a week and then got back together and Kathy hated that John drank so much, which just seems like everybody in this town drinks a lot right? Yeah, that's just the thing to do. She actually is not a very big drinker. Okay, she's just crazy in her own right. Yeah, she did not need alcohol. So she kind of blames everything and all their fighting and all their problems on how much he's drinking. And so John's like okay, I'll quit. So he does, wow, he quits drinking. He is able to stay sober, and this is when Eric is five months old. And this doesn't help. They just continue to fight. So it was obviously not his drinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in 1993, he ends up taking a two week job with a drug and alcohol counseling service in a larger city. So he has to leave Kathy and the kids. He goes on this two week job and he ends up loving it. He loves the city and they offer him a job. And so he's like you know what? I decided to stay. I want you guys to come with me. I'll get a big house Like it's a great opportunity, we can get out of that small town, we'll have more opportunity here.
Speaker 1:And so Kathy visits him and they have sex, things are good for a few days and then they get into a huge fight and she left and that was the end of their relationship. So she breaks up with them. She's like you stay here, I'm moving back home, and John was absolutely heartbroken, but Kathy did not care at all. What John didn't know was that she had already moved on and was having an affair with another man named John Price. So she was just deciding sort of which man she liked more. So she was like with John in Aberdeen and had sex with him and tried to plan their future. And then she's like okay, now let me go see what it looks like with John. Chilling's worth.
Speaker 2:Why are all of her men the same names? I know David and David. I know John and John.
Speaker 1:This is why I call one by last name. Yeah, I know it's confusing, so she ends up picking price. Now, john Charles Thomas Price he he goes by pricey, that's what everyone calls him as. Pricey Okay was born on April 4th 1955 in Gunnada, australia. He was the oldest of six children to parents Cynthia orphan, which okay and. Percy Price, percy Price I know Percy.
Speaker 1:Price I love it too. Pricey was also wasn't very good in school and by 15 he still couldn't read or write what. But he could drive a bulldozer, a backhoe, like any of the Heavy, like machinery he was really really good at, which was not common for a boy of his age.
Speaker 2:Where is parents, though, in this 15 years, when he had gone to school, not reading or writing sounds?
Speaker 1:like he wasn't really good at it and In that town nobody really Cared, right like they're from these small towns that are just, I'm gonna drop out at 15, yeah, I'm just gonna go until I have to. I don't really care about school. I'm not going to college. I'm not gonna, like, make anything like that out of my life. I'm just gonna go work in the factories, yeah, and so when you're raised like that, I think they just don't care as much.
Speaker 2:It's like I don't really need this education isn't like at the forefront of everyone's mind because everyone's just gonna work like Manual labor right, yeah, so he is a very, very hard worker and Everybody really really likes pricey.
Speaker 1:He then met a woman named Colleen in we war, where we were, we were where he lived, and the two fell in love quickly and they end up getting married when pricey was 18 and Colleen was 17. Okay, the two started a family and had a son named Jonathan. The following year the couple gave birth to their daughter, rosemary Kaye, and as the kids grew and started school, the family seemed really really happy. Pricey was described as a very carefree and fun, happy and generous person. He made friends easily and was a really good father and husband. Okay, in 1980 pricey moved closer to his family where his Mom, cynthia, and his stepdad, john White and his little brother Bob were living, and they lived in these things called Caravan parks, which were like kind of like mobile homes, but they're all on wheels, and so His mom and stepdad have their own caravan and then him and his family have a caravan, and then his brother Bob has a caravan, and so they're all very, very close together. And One night his dad and brother got into an argument after going kangaroo hunting.
Speaker 2:And I guess I never really thought about that. Yeah, they eat kangaroo, I think so, oh, okay but I know people.
Speaker 1:I know people do a lot of kangaroo hunting In that area. Okay, because if you think about it it's kind of like our dear population. Well, huh, they'll just like overtake things and I don't want some big, scary kangaroos.
Speaker 2:No, I'm gonna scare me. I keep seeing. I just think they were so cute. And then I started watching videos of like real kangaroos. I'm like these. Have you seen the one where the ones?
Speaker 1:right where a kangaroo gets a hold of the Puppy or the dog. Yeah, he's trying to drown it and the guy goes out.
Speaker 2:I'm like this yeah, punches it in the face and like when he punches it you can.
Speaker 1:The kangaroo looks at him like Somebody actually punch yeah, and they're like big and muscly they are scary.
Speaker 2:They literally they're so scary. They're so there's one video of like someone's like back, like they're sliding glass door and there's a kangaroo just like outside of it and it's like looking at my all creepy shit. And they're so muscly like.
Speaker 1:Why are they so muscly? It freaks me out. The baby kangaroos are real cute. They're so cute and the moms aren't nearly as scary cartoon kangaroos are so cute muscly ones that just look like they're gonna beat the shit out of you.
Speaker 2:We were tricked our whole lives into thinking kangaroos were like seriously cute and sweet and nice from Winnie the Pooh and just around a little room, yeah, and then you see these videos and you're like that shit's like legit.
Speaker 1:They're not true.
Speaker 2:No, no, I can't remember what someone said that kangaroos Gosh. I can't remember what animal they said it was, but it was some animals. Cousin who's been to prison, bob Working out yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:So they get in this fight and Bob goes to leave and I don't know why his dad just didn't let him leave. But his dad grabs a rifle and kind of fires it in the air to get him to stop. Okay, but Bob left and he is in his truck I think it was the truck that both of them drove in, so maybe that's why. But he took off Down down the road in the truck and it breaks down Not very far from the camp, of course. So Bob starts walking back to the camp and he ends up hitting his dad in the head and then stole his gun. And so John went to his Caravan and started loading a different gun, which I was like what, what is happening?
Speaker 2:Why is?
Speaker 1:everyone loading guns your family but this is what's happening and so. Cynthia, the mom is trying to step in and stop her husband from loading the gun.
Speaker 2:We, you cannot get worse.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna stop, let's just take a breath, right. But Bob had crept up near their caravan and Saw his dad loading another gun. I was like, oh hell, no. So he's like, well, if I there's a like a light in the in the caravan, he's like if I shoot that out, then my dad will realize that I'm this close and then I'm armed and he'll stop what he's doing. Right, which? None of this, none of this makes sense.
Speaker 2:I'm there really has to be all Involved. I'm sure I'm sure this is not like yeah, yeah, I'm gonna shoot but I doubt, wait for this.
Speaker 1:So he shoots, but he missed the light and shoots his mom in the head. No, shoots his mom in the head and she doesn't die immediately. So then the dad yells out and was like, you shot your mom, so Bob drops, as everyone drops their guns, finally, well, fun and games until mom gets shot in the head right. Runs to Cynthia. Oh, they rush her to the hospital, but she dies on the way to the hospital in their arms.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, that's she was all 43 years old 43.
Speaker 1:This is terrible. So Bob's arrested and pleaded guilty to manslaughter and he sentenced to seven years in prison.
Speaker 2:Wow, but how sad for Bob too, I do have to say, because, like, can you imagine Bob and his dad are just having some stupid testosterone fight, whatever the hell that was? Yeah, and he Did not mean to shoot his mom and kill her, like that's no, but the end of the day too, like, don't mess around with guns, don't play with guns, they're not like a toy and don't try and shoot a light out near people.
Speaker 1:You're not a sharp shooter. I'm sure you've been drinking. Oh, so sad. It's terrible like wow, it's such a tragic, tragic Situation. Yeah, and he felt so bad, like him and his mom were very close, like I can't even imagine no, all the things that he suffered from this. But it also took a huge toll on pricey because him and his mom were very Close yeah, and he wasn't a part of any of it.
Speaker 2:Right, it was not.
Speaker 1:No, like what the hell he just hears about it later. So he ends up like not having a good relationship with his brother and this just took like a big toll on his mental health. Yeah, in 1981 he was struggling to find work and they ended up moving to Aberdeen and Started working there at the mine and pricey met a man named Laurie, who also worked at the mine. He was married, they both lived in the same caravan park and they both had two kids. So they became like immediate best friends, yeah, and they would often go on fishing trips and would frequent the bar after work. The men and their wives would also often go out dancing. They all loved to dance and the family ends up building a house like this pretty big, pretty red, like red brick house. Okay, and they all move in and soon after they move into their house they welcomed their third child in 1985, a girl named Jackie. The couple was very happy.
Speaker 1:But three years after Jackie's birth the couple suddenly separates and Colleen tells them that she wants a divorce. Okay, and she just wants out of the marriage. So she ends up taking the two girls but left Jonathan with his dad and she is very nice with this whole process. She ends up leaving pricey the entire house and everything in it. She doesn't take anything but her clothes, okay, and she just took enough money out of their joint account so that she could buy a car. Okay, pricey was shocked by this and had no clue why Colleen left. Their relationship seemed to be great and this also really confused the children and their friends, like everyone around them, thought that they were great. They didn't fight ever. Colleen basically later said that that he was such a generous and giving person that he had a hard time Sort of focusing his time on their marriage and her.
Speaker 1:Okay, and he would just he would go help this friend and go yeah and be a great dad and be involved, and then she sort of came last. So she just felt like, you know, we just didn't spend that much time together and after 15 years we just grew apart. Yeah, and she was I don't know. She just said that they were, they stayed really good friends and she felt like it had just turned in to more of a friendship. So that's why she left. She said that she still loved him, but she ended up taking an entire year to decide to leave him. She said it was really really hard, yeah, but they remained friends. They had a really good co-parenting relationship and and pricey was still very much in love with Colleen and hoped that she would come back to him. I hope that he held on to for 12 years oh Sad, even 10 years after they split. She reported there was a time that he was going on holiday and he just slipped $500 into her bank account so that she'd have extra spending money.
Speaker 2:Like he was just a good guy yeah.
Speaker 1:He also was very supportive of the kids. Anything she needed he would give to her. He just like he, worked to help his kids like he didn't care about anything for himself?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but she was also just not somebody that was like into that stuff either and was like no, you work hard for your money. Like I don't want to take it. Yeah, like no, no, no here, oh, like you need to take care of yourself as well. Yeah, that's so nice, you know, he just seems like a good guy, and they both started dating other people, but nothing really stuck for too long. Kathy and pricey ended up meeting at a pub.
Speaker 2:In 1993.
Speaker 1:So we're back to Kathy night. Oh, no, met. They met at a pub in October of 1993, and they had actually known each other for years before that. They just hadn't spent a lot of time together. Okay, because pricey was a good friend of her ex David Saunders. Oh no, did he not know about her? He knew about her. Oh, pricey, pricey. Pricey was just out for another short, just out of another short relationship and was kind of on the rebound. And you have to remember, though, this is such a small area that the dating pool is very limited.
Speaker 1:I guess, very limited and it's not uncommon to date a mate's ex Like that's just how you have to do it. Okay, but I think that you shouldn't date your the ex when they're this crazy.
Speaker 2:No, when you like your friend comes to work all the time, the look like you can tell he's been beat the shit out of. Yeah, and I'm sure at some point People knew about the dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and everybody knew everything like small town. Yeah, oh no. So they got along really well and became pretty close pretty quickly. He loved her kids and they seemed to really like him as well, which was not very common for her kids to like a man. He would help her out with money and he helped fix up things in her house and he even fixed Melissa's car for her when it broke down.
Speaker 1:Kathy was would also really take care of him, so she'd get up early and cook his meals so he had a nice meal to take to work. She sewed for him and helped him keep his house and they felt madly in love and it actually seems like a pretty good fit. Pricy would bring her flowers and they would both tell friends how head over heels they were for each other. Kathy doted on him and they had a lot of fun. Most weekends they would go out and get a few drinks and go dancing and Pricy did not care that Kathy towered over him, which it always says towered. He was like five foot six and I think she was five, seven or Five eight so it's not like she's like a foot taller than no, but Anyways.
Speaker 1:So they loved to dance and, of course, their sex life was amazing. They had sex all the time. Kathy wasn't a really big drinker and she would just have a couple of drinks. Socially, john was a much bigger drinker and to me he sort of just seems like a functional alcoholic. Okay, actually, because he would drink every single night after work and he wanted time in the pub without Kathy. So he would get together with his friends and drink a few every single night and then on Saturdays and Sundays Without Kathy. But then the couple would also go out together on the weekends and drink even more.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, pricy would go, would often get a little cheeky when he drink, and Kathy was even quicker to anger when she drank. Okay, they showered each other with gifts and would sometimes get into little arguments, but nothing too big. They didn't even have a first, their first big fight until a year into their relationship, which was like really rare for her. Yeah, but this would be just the beginning. This was a start, the start of a very on again, off again to Multuous relationship. About a year and a half into their relationship, things shifted and Kathy seemed to start having doubts about Pricy's faithfulness, and it really just seems like ever since her first husband cheated on her, she always felt that when things weren't going well it was because they were cheating.
Speaker 1:And it was no different with Pricy. He came home one night and she lit into him, accusing him of cheating. They got into a huge fight that night, but they were able to end their fight as usual with some steamy sex, and it didn't go too far. Pricy was pretty wasted and Unfortunately, in the throes of passion he called out another woman's name oh no which of course made Kathy feel really hurt and upset, which I think I'd make any woman or man.
Speaker 1:Especially when you just got into a heated argument about thinking that they were cheating on you and they convinced you that they're not. And During your makeup sex they call out another woman's name. Oh, I would be.
Speaker 1:I would be so pissed yeah and then you're like well, of course you're cheating. Who was that? Yeah, like yeah. So in Kathy's defense which I do will not defend most of the things that she does but before her and Pricy had even started dating, she had gotten herself into counseling and was trying to work on herself. Okay, knew that she had some toxic traits and anger issues and was trying to better herself. With this fight and the emotional toll it took on her, she really started struggling Emotionally and mentally. She was drinking more than she ever had, which still wasn't much, they said even at this like heightened drinking. She had maybe six drinks a week.
Speaker 2:So it's not like she was going off the rails.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But she was able to realize that this was contributing to her anger issues, and so she left the house with her kids and decided to go get help. She felt that the only place she could get help quickly was through a a, even though she wasn't an alcoholic. So she went into a large town of Brisbane Brisbane I don't ever know how to say that. I think it's Brisbane, but I think some people call it Brisbane.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, either way, she went there where and she? She did that because she knew nobody would know her there and she sought help for herself and her kids and she ended up staying there for three months, okay, working on herself. During this time, pricy was miserable without Kathy. He would visit her often and his friends later recalled that he couldn't be away from her for more than two to three days. He was even known to cut week-long fishing trips with the boys in half because he missed her. Wow, okay, the couple was hopeful that this was going to be a fresh start for them.
Speaker 1:But once Kathy moved back, they continued to fight off and on and it was tricky because things were. When things were great, they were so amazing, yeah. But then when they were bad, it was scary and they, they didn't care where they'd fight, it didn't have to be in private, they'd fight in public and the pubs, in front of their friends. It really didn't matter. Okay, they also Wrangled Pricy's BFF, laurie, into helping them through their fights and he was kind of their go-to person to help calm the situation down.
Speaker 1:He said the fights mostly escalated because Kathy wanted Pricy to marry her and he worked in the mines and was really was a really hard worker. He was earning six figures and had a much bigger house and she was looking for that stability and she really, really, actually did love him or she thought she did. She couldn't figure out why he wouldn't make an honest woman of her, but he continued to refuse. He had set up a trust for all of his stuff that he had, including his house, and wanted everything he owned to go to his kids when he died. He knew marriage would give Kathy access to all of it, and that was his big reason why he didn't want to get married again, because he didn't want his kids to miss out on the things he had worked for for them.
Speaker 1:Some of his friends also thought that he didn't want to marry her because deep down he still loved Colleen and knew it wouldn't work out with Kathy but Kathy. So Kathy still had her house but wouldn't fully move in with Pricy unless he married her, because if she moved in with him She'd lose her pension.
Speaker 1:So after she got this injury, she got this pension that paid her a certain amount. It wasn't much, but it was enough for her to live on, and if she moved in with someone, even if they weren't married, she would lose it. Oh, okay. So she felt like that would be her way of feeling, like she was stable, as if she was married, because then, if anything happened, she could get money out of it. Then more fighting ensued when she found out that Pricy wasn't even officially divorced from Colleen. Oh, she. So then she's like years, right, years, and years and years, yes. And so she's like well, that's the reason that you don't want to marry me, because you legally can't you're not even divorced you, dumb ass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she Convinces Pricy that he needs to get a divorce. So he calls Colleen up and says hey, listen, this is what's happening, we need a divorce. And Colleen's like, yeah, that's fine, I completely understand that, but neither of them. Neither of them could really say why they had never gone through the official divorce.
Speaker 2:They just hadn't done it. I mean I do get that took a cent, because mean chain did wait a long time and it was finally just like, okay, we just sit down and do this. But we had like moved on and like everything was set. And I think it was Kind of the same like Shane's always been really good at like helping with the kids and doing whatever needs to be done, and so it was just like wasn't something you didn't have to get like certain things in writing and yeah, so it was like that's how this was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just.
Speaker 2:They just kind of just hadn't done it. Yeah, but I say that to people, they're just like what, and it's like I don't know, like we just didn't, we just hadn't sat down and done it, yeah so that's them and so, but Colleen's like not upset by this.
Speaker 1:She's like I completely understand where Kathy would be coming from, of course. So they get a divorce, but still Pricy refuses to marry Kathy, and that is where we will stop part one. Okay, oh, you guys have to tune in next week because I know we've covered a lot of shit and All the things that she's done, but it gets so much worse.
Speaker 2:I can't eat, I honestly can't even. I mean I know what happens, but like Through all of this stuff, like how can it honestly get? I know worse, it's so much worse so tune in next week.
Speaker 1:So we are gonna hold off on our Soul cleanse. Yeah, tell next week because you'll really need it. And yeah, so go follow us on all of the things. Go sign up for our patreon. Share with your friends and family, wherever you listen to your podcast, go in and click the automatic download button that helps us with our downloads and that way, if you ever lose service, you can always have us on a road trip. Yeah, absolutely, and remember to keep listening if you want in on the sin. Bye, bye, guys.