Sinners Among Saints

Episode 77: Kathrine Knight // Part 2

March 29, 2024 Megan and Lindsay Season 1 Episode 77
Episode 77: Kathrine Knight // Part 2
Sinners Among Saints
More Info
Sinners Among Saints
Episode 77: Kathrine Knight // Part 2
Mar 29, 2024 Season 1 Episode 77
Megan and Lindsay

Send us a Text Message.

Navigate the twisted corridors of Kathy Knight's life with us; a journey that escalates from manipulation to the darkest act of murder. This is no mere recounting of events, but an intimate deconstruction of a woman's descent into infamy. We unravel the complexities of Kathy's relationships, from the embers of her first marriage to the inferno with John Price—a chilling saga of control, aggression, and a final act that shook Australia to its core. As you tune in, prepare for an unflinching narrative that exposes the raw realities of abuse and the shadow that murder casts on a community.

The Family Histories Podcast
A genealogy addicted guest, a Life Story, a research Brick Wall..... and a time machine.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Thanks for all the support!! Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Tik Tok, or email us, and remember we now have a Patreon!!
patreon.com/sinnersamongsaintspodcast
sinnersamongsaintspodcast@gmail.com
Tik Tok @sinnersamongsaints

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Navigate the twisted corridors of Kathy Knight's life with us; a journey that escalates from manipulation to the darkest act of murder. This is no mere recounting of events, but an intimate deconstruction of a woman's descent into infamy. We unravel the complexities of Kathy's relationships, from the embers of her first marriage to the inferno with John Price—a chilling saga of control, aggression, and a final act that shook Australia to its core. As you tune in, prepare for an unflinching narrative that exposes the raw realities of abuse and the shadow that murder casts on a community.

The Family Histories Podcast
A genealogy addicted guest, a Life Story, a research Brick Wall..... and a time machine.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Thanks for all the support!! Please follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Tik Tok, or email us, and remember we now have a Patreon!!
patreon.com/sinnersamongsaintspodcast
sinnersamongsaintspodcast@gmail.com
Tik Tok @sinnersamongsaints

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Lindsay and I'm Megan, and this is Sinners Among Saints.

Speaker 3:

Hello, hello. Thanks for coming back.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you had a hair part too of this crazy tale.

Speaker 3:

That's how we sucker you guys back. That's true. Two potas, two potas. I could have made this three. Yeah, I was actually thinking that, but here we are now.

Speaker 1:

I didn't want to make you sit through three parts of this, so I did it in two. So you should actually be saying thank you, thank you, lindsay, you're welcome. You're welcome. It was definitely one that I felt like I could not do in one. So no, yeah, there's just too much. There's too much and I feel like to understand the whole story. You need all of the deets.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, absolutely you had like, in order to understand her whole mind frame.

Speaker 1:

And I still don't feel like you understand anything. But it gets worse in part two. All right.

Speaker 1:

So everyone's aware this is where the murdery stuff happens. So, just before we jump into that, everybody remember to go follow us on Instagram and Facebook Center's Among Saints podcast and TikTok. We are I know I say this all the time but we are working at doing, at looking at doing some different types of videos on TikTok. We are just figuring some things out and finalizing stuff and we are really excited about all of the things that we have coming up. So follow us so that you don't miss out. Go sign up for our Patreon. We really have a lot of fun on our Patreon. We do, and we are going to start offering maybe some more things for you guys.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

So lots of good stuff coming up. So go do that. Go make sure that you like our podcast, give us a good five star review, tell all of your family and friends about it, and I don't think we have any other business-y things to jump into. So we are actually recording this one right after part one. So if you signed up for Patreon and don't get your shout out this time, that's why, yeah, and it'll be in the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Anyways just a small recap and I forgot to do this. So we talked about we're talking about Kathy Knight from Australia. We talked about her childhood and abuse, her terrible temper. She's very hot headed, gets in fights a lot. She works at an abattoir which is a slaughterhouse. Her job is kind of surrounded by death and decay.

Speaker 1:

She gets married at age 18 to David Kennett. They have two daughters together, melissa and Natasha. That lasts eight years. It's very toxic, tumultuous, abusive. She then gets married, or they don't get married. But she gets with David Saunders Again toxic. She has a little girl with him.

Speaker 1:

This is the one that she slit his dog's throat, hits him in the head a few times. Then she gets with John Chillingworth. They have a son named Eric. Oh, the daughter she had with David is named Sarah. Then they have Eric. More violence, more toxicity. She stabs him with a pair of scissors in the stomach. She has lots of sex in order to reel these men back in. It's a vicious cycle. She's manipulative to her kids. She then meets John Price, who goes by Pricey, who is a divorcee who's still in love with his ex-wife Colleen. They're fighting a lot because Kathy really wants to marry Pricey, but Pricey doesn't want to marry Kathy. She finds out that him and Colleen are not divorced and flies off the handle for a minute. He divorces his ex but then still doesn't want to marry her. I'm pretty sure that's all where we left off.

Speaker 3:

I never thought of calling a man a divorcee. I always felt like that's referred to women, is it? Yeah, I feel like whenever I hear divorcee, she's a divorcee, divorcee. I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Maybe I'm using it in a roughly no, I'm sure it is.

Speaker 3:

Maybe there's a masculine and a feminine version of this, but I can't think of what it would be. But I was like, oh, I guess men are divorcees, right? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

I mean because you have like widower, widow, widower right, so maybe it's like a divorcee Divorcer.

Speaker 3:

Divorcer and divorcee? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Fill us in if we're incorrect. I'm sure you will. After this things start to become more violent where up until now it was mostly fighting with words and then kind of leaving the house. So they haven't been super violent up until this point. Kathy ended up hitting Pricy in the chest with a pan. I don't know what it is with her and pans, but she hits him in the chest so hard with a pan that it leaves a large, large bruise on his chest. Oh my gosh. He ends up grabbing her hands during this altercation and bruises her wrists where he's trying to like get her off of him. His best friend, Laurie, who's kind of their like counselor as well, later said that these were the only bruises he ever saw on Kathy, but Pricy always had bruises. After that first fight Okay, that first physical fight.

Speaker 1:

I should say this made Pricy pull away a little bit and he even started flirting with other women at the bar, even if Kathy was there, which of course led to more and more fights. In June of 1998, kathy decided that she had had enough of him treating her this way. She was fed up. But instead of leaving, she concocted a revenge plan to hit him where it hurt, and she's big on this. She's big on revenge and she's big on like you know, I don't just have to fight with my fists, although I do that often. I can hurt you in other ways, and she likes to show all the ways she can hurt these men. So she starts making a film of all the things around Pricy's house that he had brought home from work over the years. When things that the mind would get thrown out, he would grab them and bring them home, like a lot of people do, I feel like Sure. He brought home two old vacuums which I was like what are they doing with vacuums at the mind? They were used on a drag line, which I still don't know quite what that meant, but apparently they have vacuums there. There's two old ones that get broken and so they're thrown out, and he brings them home. He's pretty handy and so he was going to try and fix them up for Kathy and knew that she liked old things anyways, so, even if he couldn't get them working again, that she could use them like in her house decor or whatever, because she just likes these old objects that she just decorates her house with. He also had brought home some kitchen items, like oil and an old oil drum, and then he had brought home a first aid kit that had been thrown out because it was fully it was full of expired items. Most of these items he had even asked if he could have. He's like hey, you're going to throw that out, can I have it? Yeah, and people are like sure, I don't care, it's trash. So Kathy claims that she made this video to use as blackmail. She said she was going to show it to Pricey and tell him that if he ever hit her again she was going to send it to his bosses because it was proof that he was stealing from the company. So three months go by after she makes this video and the couple gets into another big blow up fight and they make up. That night, though Everything seems to be okay, they have sex.

Speaker 1:

The following morning Kathy got up and made Pricey breakfast and lunch, like she always did. Laurie, who he carpools with, gets to the house. She gives Pricey a kiss, he goes to work with Laurie like everything is fine. As soon as he gets into work, his supervisors call him into the office and they accused him of stealing and said that they had video proof. So they then sit him down and show him this video that Kathy had made of her walking around their house pointing out all the things Pricey had air quotes stolen and even making comments about everything as she went.

Speaker 1:

And the company does not take this lightly and they end up firing him. He had been working for this mine for 17 years 17 years and then kind of built his way up. So he had a pension built up and all of these benefits that were really good with the mine. That's why people stayed on with them so long. But the rules were that if you got fired from the job that you would lose all of that. You lose your pension, you lose all of your benefits that you had built up.

Speaker 1:

But Laurie and Pricey end up getting like people to come and testify on his behalf saying like hey, we said he could have this, so they still fire him, but they're able to at least talk them into letting him have his benefits minus his holiday pay. So he's like alright, I mean, I guess it's an okay trade off. So that night he kicks Kathy out of the house and she's like fine, so she just goes back to her house. But before she leaves she takes one last jab, because she always has to have the last word, and she goes out and empties his big deep freezer that's full of meat and puts like throws it all on the backyard, so it just spoils.

Speaker 3:

Oh my god, I hate her so much.

Speaker 1:

I know I know, she's literally the worst.

Speaker 3:

And it's interesting to me too that they get into these like huge fights, these men that she's with, but they make up so quickly, so fast and I have been in you know enough like a big arguments with a partner and the last thing I want to do is have sex with you right afterwards.

Speaker 1:

No, but did you ever get the advice when you were married to fight naked because the fights wouldn't last as long? No, has anyone ever told you that?

Speaker 3:

No, first of all, shayne was a never nude solo. I got told that all the time I worked.

Speaker 1:

If you guys get in a big fight, just take off all your clothes and fight naked, because then you'll make up and just have the makeup sex Right, like it's supposed to be one of these things where then you don't go to bed angry and you just like get everything out there and then you just make up. And I think that she uses this. She's like, I mean maybe Because I think men and I don't know, I feel like men can say no to sex For sure. Yeah, I mean it's hard for either sex.

Speaker 3:

I think if you love somebody, right, like if you really truly love somebody. Like generally, I feel like you enjoy that part of your relationship. Right, it's an intimate part of your relationship. Yeah, but when I'm like, there has been times where I have tried like you know, I don't know Like about or whatever, like when he's mad and then like it does stop, yeah, that from happening. But the majority of the time, like I hate you just as much as you hate me, I don't want to do that.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to be naked.

Speaker 3:

I don't want to touch you like no, I, even if we've like made up like I'm still, I needed like a minute still before like I want to do all of that because like it's all still real raw.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, and especially the things that she does to these men. This isn't just like normal fights that we're having with our partners. Yeah, we're having to like abby them and like slitting their dogs throats, and like cutting up, hitting them with pans and dead fathers wardrobe. Yeah, like, I mean the things that she does is they're just next level? Yeah, so, I can't imagine this either, but it happens with multiple men, I mean it does. Yeah, so, and I truly don't know.

Speaker 3:

This is why I'm saying she probably has like some platinum pussy because, I feel, like I have heard in the past that she was pretty good in bed. Yeah, she has to be, yeah she's not a looker.

Speaker 1:

She's not a looker. No, she's not. She's not at all.

Speaker 3:

She's got to have some charisma to her as well, like in order to even draw you in in the beginning. Yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

Especially when you hear rumors about this in this small town.

Speaker 3:

And you know everything about her crazy shit.

Speaker 1:

I'm like, I'm not even going near her like this.

Speaker 3:

No, right yeah.

Speaker 1:

Like no, not starting anything, no but people do yeah. So I don't know, but even this did not keep Pricy away. The couple started dating again and he even ends up telling his friends, which this seems like like battered spouse to me because he tells his friends that you know I was responsible for a breakup and the fighting and I haven't been treating her well and she had every right to do what she did.

Speaker 3:

No, and like defends her, yeah, nope. That's definitely manipulated, uh huh.

Speaker 1:

That's not okay. No, so he could. He's like you know, I can always find another job, but I truly love her. We're going to work it out.

Speaker 3:

You literally. She made you breakfast and she sent you on your way like in a happy good morning, have a great day at work, babe, I love you. And then she gets you fired. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

For like a job you've been at for 17 years for nothing.

Speaker 3:

And you took something that was like expired.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like expired shit that nobody wanted like stuff they were throwing away. Everything he took had been thrown out.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like no, it makes no sense. Oh man, I just no sense. I know, oh, the manipulation she has is just it's bonkers, mm. Hmm.

Speaker 1:

Like she would be one of those people that I feel like could start a cult. Oh for sure, yeah, because I don't know how people do this, but she has that personality. No, yeah, she's something about her. Yeah, she tried to move on, but he really couldn't forget about the betrayal from Kathy and their fighting became centered around this now, not so much the issue of marriage anymore.

Speaker 1:

By 1999 she started telling people that she was going to kill Pricy and that she'd get away with it. Okay, she even stated to some that she was going to kill Pricy and his two kids. Oh which. With the two kids, it always seems like she got along better. With the middle one, rose Mary, okay. But Jonathan, his son, hates her, hates her. They have a terrible relationship the whole time they're dating. I don't think she likes men. I don't think so either. And then the little girl, jackie, which we'll get into a little bit right now, actually.

Speaker 1:

So Jackie Price was the youngest and she ended up living with her mom, but they were just a few miles away. So they're all very, very close. She's very, super close to both of her parents. She talks to her dad all the time, price, he was very doting and a very involved father who gave his kids everything, and once Jackie even asked him to buy her a horse, he's like, she's like, dad, I think I want a horse, will you buy me a horse? And Colleen's like no, no, no, that's like over the top. He's like sure, bought her a horse, a horse, a horse. He doesn't even think twice about it. He's like oh, you want that sure. Like he just wants to take care of his kids. He spoiled them and they wanted for nothing. He also made sure that Colleen was taken care of as the mother of his kids, which he should.

Speaker 1:

And Pricey's kids didn't like Kathy and the feeling seemed mutual. So once she even told Jackie that Pricey wasn't her real dad when she was just mad about something, and Jackie freaked out at this and called her mom and was like mom, she's saying that dad isn't really my dad. Is this true freaking out? So Colleen is like the nicest person, but she goes mama bear on Kathy and calls her up, is not scared of this woman at all and she like rips her a new one.

Speaker 1:

Good, she was pissed and Kathy's, like you know, kind of tries to play it off, but she's just spiteful. Yeah, she's just so spiteful and like vengeful and she just doesn't care who gets hurt. It does not matter to her. Yeah, the kids try to develop a relationship and with Kathy and just like their dad, it seems like it's good and bad. It's kind of hit and miss. Someday she'll be great and someday she'll be a monster. And Rosemary, the middle child, was the closest to Kathy and she, even after she started having her own kids, let Kathy watch her kids, oh OK, and said that she was great with children, like everybody says that she's great with kids. So interesting, it's so interesting, yeah, it's weird. But I wonder if it's because they can be manipulated easier.

Speaker 3:

Maybe, or maybe just like I don't know what it is. She wasn't treated good, she wasn't treated great as a kid, and so she, I don't know. It's weird. It's weird, it's super weird.

Speaker 1:

But then Kathy is also vindictive and does little things like she would after Rosemary's kids would be over at their house and she'd watch them and have a good day with them. They would leave and she would hide the remote controls. And pricey was like really adamant about like the remote controls going a specific place because when he gets home from a hard day and he wants to watch the telly he wants to be able to watch and it like sets him off, like these little things and she knows his buttons and so she'll hide the remote and then blame Rosemary's small children for losing them. Oh, and this even makes pricey like call and yell at Rosemary about her kids and then suddenly after he gets off the phone, he'll look and the remote will be there. Like she just plays the worst mind games on people but she just does these little things to get under your skin.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's crazy. Right before Kathy got pricey fired, colleen started getting a really bad vibe from her and one day, when Colleen came to pick up the kids, she says Kathy runs out to the car and starts basically trying to trick Colleen into saying that pricey had hit her when they were married, claiming that she's like basically like hey, did he do stuff to you when you were married? Because I heard that from somebody. And she's like who did you hear it from? Yeah, and she's like, oh, I just someone. No, tell me who you heard it from, because that's bullshit, it didn't happen. Yeah, like Colleen's very much like doesn't really put up with her shit, which I like.

Speaker 1:

But then Kathy just drops it and is like, oh, I must have had it wrong, don't worry about it. So she's kind of trying to set things up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and Colleen said the two rarely even fought and that she could remember exactly two fights that they had had in their 15 years together. Wow, colleen went to pricey and told them that she was concerned, that Kathy was going to do something to him and it seemed like she was trying to build a case for herself. Like pricey, was this terrible person? Yeah, and that he needed to be careful and consider getting out of the relationship. Wow, but pricey wouldn't listen. Colleen's like she's got some intuition, yeah, and I wish he would have listened to her.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so pricey is able to get a new job just a couple months after he was fired, doing the same type of work, which is just like operating this heavy machinery. But he quickly gets promoted to supervisor when his boss realizes that he's a badass yeah, because I guess it's not common for people to be able to run all of the heavy equipment. Ok, like they're usually specialized in one or the other, he can do everything. He's like jack of all trades. Ok, he's really good with people, and so they promote him, and soon he's running a crew of like 12 to 14 men. So this was the most responsibility he had ever been given and he really rises to this occasion it is said to have become even more ambitious and he starts showing up really early to work. So he gets there about an hour before everybody checks out the site, makes sure everything's ready for his crew, everything's safe for everybody to start working, and then he's always the last one to leave and he absolutely loves his job.

Speaker 1:

So in August of 1999, colleen called and told Pricie that she didn't like the way Kathy was inserting herself and treating Jackie. Kathy had continued to make snide remarks about her paternity concerns to this young teen. Like at this time I think she's 13 or 14. Ok, she had to have been late 13, early 14. So Pricie relayed this to Kathy one night while she was doing dishes, and so she's like you know they're in the kitchen. He's like hey, you know, I just got off the phone with Colleen. These are her concerns. Like you really need to stop doing this and saying these things to Jackie.

Speaker 1:

It's really causing problems. Kathy's just sitting there doing dishes. This pisses her off. She grabs a knife and stabs Pricie in the left side of his chest, just under his arm. Oh no, so she claims later that it was an accident. She said I don't have really good eyesight and I didn't realize that I was that close to him, so I did have a knife and I was like like doing a motion, but I didn't think I was close enough to actually stab him, which I'm like bullshit. Bullshit to that, because that's not true.

Speaker 1:

Luckily it didn't do any damage and he didn't even go to the hospital to get checked out. He basically just like, pulls the knife out and puts a band-aid over the wound oh my God and just acts like it's fine.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I mean it's like a mere flesh wound. Where's the band-aid from my expired first aid kit? Right, this will come in handy. So then this is always so weird to me how this happens. But Kathy then calls the police and reports this. Oh, she's so terrible, but nothing happened because Pricie didn't want to press charges. So another time she ends up getting a fork and making these big, long scratches down her neck, and then she goes to the pub where he is, so everyone can see the scratches, hoping that they would assume that Pricie had done it to her and that he was abusing her.

Speaker 3:

Hopefully they all knew her by now and were just like oh my God, what has she done? Now, Right?

Speaker 1:

Like oh crazy pants, oh man. So it just seems like she's starting to set things up, yeah, and Kathy then goes to her nephew, jason, and told them that Pricie treated her very poorly and often called her really terrible names, like Slut and the Seaward, all of the time he was buying other women drinks at the bar right in front of her and openly flirting with them. And so to get revenge, she asks Jason to steal and burn Pricie's car. So this car is worth like $20,000 and he doesn't have insurance on it and she knows that and she wants to hurt him financially. So she's like listen, I'll give you $500. Go steal his car and just burn it.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I just the level she goes to.

Speaker 1:

It's nuts and it's just getting worse and worse and worse. She then also takes him aside and asks him if he would ever consider throwing battery acid on his face, on Pricie's face, and her nephew, luckily, is like no, I'm not doing either of these things.

Speaker 1:

You can take your $500 and shove it. You're crazy. So he does not do any of these things, luckily, but she does approach him about it. Pricie started to worry about his safety and that of his kids and he even starts calling a friend who doesn't live in the same town Every time they fight and has them document all of their fights. And all of every time Kathy is abusive towards him, which is becoming more and more frequent. Okay, in December of 1999, they all go to a Christmas party at Pricie's boss's house and it's where all of their coworkers and families are there, getting together for this party. And they got into a big fight. And in order to embarrass him, kathy decided it was a good idea to go swimming topless in front of everyone, like they have kids there, they have teenagers there, they have all of these families there, and she's like I'll show you, not only are you potentially embarrassing your boyfriend, partner, whatever, but yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yourself and your kids. It was a family event, so their kids are there too.

Speaker 3:

You're the one that looks crazy, not anyone else?

Speaker 1:

No, no. So this causes another big fight between the two, and his boss even pulls him in later and is like listen, like you guys got, you have to get under control or you're not invited to any more parties.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you cannot bring. This is yeah. You can't bring crazy pants anymore.

Speaker 1:

On February 27th 2000,.

Speaker 1:

The couple goes to a bar with some of Pricie's coworkers and they have a few beers and then they end up going back to have a barbecue at his house, and Pricie at this point is pretty drunk.

Speaker 1:

But he starts making some very inappropriate and rude comments about Kathy and the fact that she has four kids from three different men and just kind of lays into her a little bit and, as you can imagine, that really pisses her off. Yeah, and so she just like goes off on him and starts making a bunch of rude comments back to him and at this pricey, gets upset and lunges at Kathy and grabs her by the breast and grabs one of her arms and just starts ripping. Oh no, he even broke the necklace that she was wearing, so it did get pretty violent on his end. Okay, she claims that he even choked her, but nobody really saw that part of it. The police are called, but when they arrive Kathy denies that she had anything to do with the fight, even though a lot of people said that she also threw some punches. Yeah, and then she's able to show the police the marks on her from the attack.

Speaker 1:

And so they told Pricie that, because he was like, can you just make her leave? Like this is my house, I want her gone, like we need to just deescalate this situation, yeah, and they basically tell her sorry, without a court order, even though it's your house and she doesn't technically live here, we can't do anything, which makes absolutely no sense to me, because I understand when you live there.

Speaker 3:

Right, that's your house Different yeah.

Speaker 1:

But she specifically won't move in with him fully and has her own house because she doesn't want to lose her pension. Yeah, so I was a little confused by that. I don't really find anything in Australian law about this, so I don't know why nothing could be done. But they tell him nothing can be done. Sorry, you're on your own. That's interesting. So after this fight like he is raging and she just acts like nothing happened, she just goes on cooking dinner.

Speaker 3:

She like she literally loses her shit and then can just come back down so quickly.

Speaker 1:

And I was like what are you talking about? I do not deescalate that quickly.

Speaker 3:

No.

Speaker 1:

I don't think anybody but her deescalates that quickly. It takes me a minute. It's insane. Wow, like it's. People go from zero to 100 very quickly. She goes from 100 to zero, like she does, like nobody's business. It's insane, it's nuts. It's so nuts. So she just sits down at dinner like nothing happened, and when they go to bed that night, kathy does sleep on the couch. But during the night, pricey gets this uneasy feeling, and so he wakes up and sees Kathy standing at the foot of his bed oh no, just staring at him, no, and her hands and arms are behind her back. So he thinks that she has a knife. Yeah, because he's been stabbed by her before.

Speaker 1:

So a little PTSD, and so he just like, jumps out of his bed and books it to his neighbor's house.

Speaker 1:

So, sad, so, sad so the next day he told his coworkers all about it and when Pricey got home that night they sat down and he says that they had a pretty good chat. Both of them agreed that this relationship was toxic and they could not continue on like this. So Pricey's like, okay, she's taking this better than I thought. In his mind it was very productive and they had officially broken up. Okay, so he was expecting her to pack her shit and get out of his house, but it was like a very good conversation. Yeah, so he thinks it's finally over.

Speaker 1:

But in Kathy's mind it is not. The discussion that she had did not go the same way and she still refuses to leave the house. So the police show up later that same night because Kathy earlier in the day had taken out an AVO on Pricey from when he had grabbed her and bruised her. Okay, so she goes and takes out an AVO and they show up to the house to serve Pricey with the AVO. So they read through everything, ask him if he has any questions, and then they leave and Kathy still refuses to leave the house, which is basically violating her own protective order.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, why didn't they tell her like, why are you here? We're serving you, like just got this, why are you here Go? So, you need to leave, go home.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like, but she doesn't and they don't make her do anything. This is so weird, so frustrating. So on February 29th 2000, kathy got up and went to her sister, joy's house, which she did every morning. They would get together super early and go for walking. But she gets there and Joy's husband says you know, she's too tired, she can't go today. And so Kathy's like no problem.

Speaker 1:

So she goes home, makes her kids breakfast and takes them to school, and then she went after she dropped some off. She goes and hangs out with a couple of her friends and she shows them the bruises from the previous fight, which was two days before this. She then goes to the police to file an official report, because apparently you don't file an AVO and an official abuse report is not the same thing. So she has to go file an official report with the police about the abuse. And they look at her bruises and they say you really need to go to a doctor and have this documented and be checked out. And she's like, okay, great, I'll get an appointment.

Speaker 1:

So she leaves the police station and then goes to visit Natasha, and Natasha has some kids by this time. So she goes to see her daughter and her grandkids and then she picks up her two younger kids from school. She then went back to her sister's house and they often like would just exchange videos. They both like tour movies and so they both had their own collections and they would go and exchange this like a weekly thing that they did so that they could have new videos to watch. So she goes and they exchange some videos and then she picks up her video camera because her sister has to keep it, because she's no longer allowed to keep that at Pricy's house. He's like you've already used this video camera against me You're not having it here.

Speaker 1:

Like I will smash it.

Speaker 1:

So she leaves it at her sister's house. So she goes and picks it up. She then goes to see her doctor and have everything documented and the doctor's report says that there wasn't anything else physically wrong with her other than the bruises on her arm and her breast. After that she goes back to Natasha's house, where she uses the camera to film her kids and her grandkids Like everyone's just kind of playing. One of them has like a little recital thing that they go to, so she's just filming all these things. And then she pulls Sarah, who is her youngest daughter and she's now 11 years old. She pulls Sarah aside and says listen, my mom gave me this pram, which is a stroller, when I was 11 and it's been like one of my most prized possessions. Now that you're 11, I really want you to have it.

Speaker 1:

So she pulls her aside and tells her this. And then at one point, when all of the kids and grandkids are out of the room, kathy turns the camera on herself and is just filming herself and calmly says into the camera I really love all of my kids and grandkids and I hope I see them again. Which is like what are you planning?

Speaker 1:

What are you going to do? I don't understand. So she then treats them all to a Chinese restaurant for dinner, which is not common because Kathy is on a very limited income and so they very, very rarely go out to eat and she buys everybody's dinner. They then after dinner go and hang out more at Natasha's house and it's getting late. And so Kathy's like listen, I got to get home pretty soon, and if we get in late and the kids wake up, pricey he'll be mad, so can I just leave the kids here tonight and I'll pick them up tomorrow? And then Tasha's like yeah, that's no problem, which this is not something that commonly happened, and Kathy always has her kids. So she leaves them at their big sister's house. Then on her way home she stops by one of her brother's house and visits him because they just welcomed a grandson, so her nephew just had a child on the 29th of February. So she stops by her brother's house and is like listen, I've been really busy, I'm sorry I haven't been able to stop by the hospital, you know, congratulations. They visit for a little while and then she leaves their house at about 10 30 PM that same day.

Speaker 1:

Pricey gets up and goes to work. But then he asks his boss to have some time off so that he can go talk to the court about this AVO that he was just served the night before. And he also wants to actually get an AVO put out on Kathy. So he goes to the court that morning and files a temporary AVO on Kathy after he shows them the scar where she had stabbed him and recounts the abuse that he had been suffering at Kathy's hand.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so that afternoon he went to the pub and was talking to the barkeep and several of his friends about his life and how, basically, he was holding out hope that Colleen would take him back someday and that they could just work things out, that he was really not in a good place with Kathy and she. He just needed to find a way to leave her. But she wasn't getting the message and he didn't really know what to do. Lots of people there said that he seemed frightened and he told a couple of people that if they heard anything at his house not to come over but just to call the police immediately. So it was like he knew something was coming. Pricey confided in his good buddy and her ex David Saunders that he needed to get out of this relationship, but just wasn't sure how. He knew he was better off without her, but just couldn't seem to leave. She had threatened him multiple times.

Speaker 1:

She had threatened to kill him or chop off his balls and multiple people had heard this and now Pricey was becoming more anxious and thinking that maybe she would do something after all. She had already tried to stab him and he had multiple scars from all of their altercations and so he's starting to tell people about all the abuse which he hadn't confided in a lot of people up into this point. People knew it was happening, but he hadn't really said it out loud and he's just seeming scared at this point. So after that he swings by a friend's house that night between 8 and 9.30 and then he heads home and when he gets home the house is quiet. There's no sign of Kathy. So he's relieved. He's like, okay, maybe she's not going to come home tonight, maybe she's taking the hint that I want out of this relationship. So he goes to bed around 10pm and was fast asleep when Kathy got home.

Speaker 1:

Kathy pulls up to Pricey's house a little before 11pm and she used her key to let herself in. She enters the house, grabs a drink, sits down and watches TV a few minutes of Star Trek and then she decides to take a shower and she had bought this new black negligee nighty recently, and so she gets dressed in that, she climbs into bed next to Pricey and he wakes up when she climbs into bed and just starts asking her like where are the kids, what time is it, how was your day? They chat for a minute, everything's cordial. They then have sex, which is very common after fighting, and then Pricey drifted off in a relaxed post-coital state, but Kathy was not ready for bed. It turns out she had hidden a knife near the bed and reaches and grabs the knife, wraps her hand around the handle and without hesitation, she just begins stabbing Pricey in the chest several times.

Speaker 1:

He wakes up shocked and astonished at what is happening. He rolls over on his side and then climbs out of bed. He got to his feet and was trying to get out the door and the crime scene later shows that he left like a bloody handprint on the light switch plate and with all these chest wounds. Every time his heart is pumping it's just spring spurts of blood all over the wall. With each heartbeat, another spurt of blood.

Speaker 1:

He was already struggling to breathe but continued into the hallway and towards the front door just trying to flee the situation. Blood continued to spur on the walls of the hallway and Kathy jumps out of bed and follows Pricey and starts stabbing him in the back multiple times, between the shoulder blades and all the way down his trunk. This ended up puncturing both of his lungs and caused both of his lungs to collapse, which is super painful. Is it Super painful when your lung collapses? It's very, very painful. It's a very sharp pain and it makes you feel like you can't get air and causes just severe shortness of breath, because you really can't. Your lungs aren't expanding, yeah they're just little flat bags.

Speaker 1:

When your organs aren't getting the oxygenated blood that you need, your heart starts pumping even faster, which then you're still not getting oxygen, and he's losing more blood, which causes severe panic. But Pricey continues to try to get away and this is when she plunges the knife into his neck, which causes him to slump on the floor. But still his will to live is strong and he crawls on the floor in the hallway, still trying to make it to the door. More stabbing she finally hits his aorta, which is a death sentence, and he is losing blood and basically drowning in his slowly, in his own blood. He can't breathe, he can't scream, he can't cry out for help. Scary, he did make it outside. So he opens the door and gets one hand on the outer frame of the door where he leaves a bloody hand print. But Kathy pulls him back inside where he finally passes away from blood loss.

Speaker 1:

In the attack he was stabbed 37 times and every major organ was hit with a blow, except his heart, his spleen, his pancreas, both kidneys, both lungs, his bowel, his stomach Every major organ except his heart. It was so brutal of an attack that even a portion of one of his kidneys was cut off. That's the force that she stabbed him with. It cut off a portion of his kidney Gross. No, no, no, it was mo-. It most likely took several minutes and experts said it could have taken up to 10 minutes for him to slowly bleed out. They thought that this was a very excruciating and horrifying death and that he was probably terrified the whole time.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and it probably felt like three years yeah 10 minutes just laying, trying to survive and dying. No.

Speaker 1:

It sounds miserable. So on March 1st 2000, his boss said that he had had some really bad feelings from the conversations he had had with Pricey the day before about all of the abuse and he was so worried that night that he just didn't sleep. Well, oh sad. He kept waking up and he said he even thought about calling Pricey at like one in the morning, which was probably right about when this was happening. And he just said he had this really bad feeling and just couldn't sleep. He's like no, I'm just going to wait. So he does call him at five o'clock in the morning, but no answer.

Speaker 1:

Just before six am people show up to the job site and his co-worker, peter, puts on the coffee and waits for Pricey, who still isn't there, which is very uncommon because Pricey's usually the first one there. So their typical routine is when they get there, pricey usually heads out, makes sure that the site's clear, and then they all have two-way radios Okay. So they call into Peter and say everything looks clear, I'm coming in. So Peter's just waiting for his call. It never comes. So when his boss finally arrives and still no Pricey, he ends up calling him on the two-way radio. No answer. He then calls his house again no answer. He calls the pub to see if maybe he had gone out partying and fallen asleep, which had never happened before. But they were like just trying to grasp the at.

Speaker 3:

Easter.

Speaker 1:

No answer. Well, the pub does answer, but he's not there. They haven't seen him. Then they call Kathy's house no answer. So this is so abnormal for them. So this is when they, like, start to get really worried. Pricey's neighbor, who goes by Kigo, woke up that morning and spotted Pricey's truck, which is usually gone by six am. So he's like this is weird. So he heads over to Pricey's house to check on him and his work boots are outside of the door and the curtains are all drawn, but it doesn't seem like anything is really out of order. He knocks on the door no answer. And at this point a co-worker ends up going to his house as well and sees Kigo and is like hey, have you seen Pricey? He didn't show up for work. And he's like no, like his truck is still here, which is really uncommon. We don't know where he is.

Speaker 1:

So his boss, his boss Jeff, calls police at 7.45 am and they head over to Pricey's house. So they show up and find one of the most gruesome, unimaginable crime scenes ever. They see the blood on the door jam, the one bloody handprint, and so then they try the door and it's locked. So they go around to the back and in the backyard. They just see this random chunk of cooked meat thrown in the backyard and they're like what the hell? But there's no dog, because a lot of times people just throw stuff out to their dog. There's no dog. So we don't know what that's about. They try the back door. It's locked as well, so they're able to wedge the back door open with a crowbar and they enter the house and there is blood all over the house. There's blood in the kitchen and the dining room, on the walls and the floor, with a large puddle in the entryway and the house is silent. But they notice that something has been cooking on the stove. And then they see the dining room table and it's like two place settings are nicely made up. There's two mills just sitting there.

Speaker 1:

They said it looked like the couple was about to sit down to dinner and then maybe got in a fight and something went terribly wrong. So as they walk through the kitchen and the living room they see something hanging from a hook on the ceiling, like in the doorway, and upon inspection they realize that it's human skin and hair and then, looking at it, it's like an entire. They call it like they say. It looks like a human pelt. It's like everything, it's hair, it's face, and they realize that it's pricey. Everything has been skinned from head to toe, including his fingers, his feet, his head, his entire face and his genitals. It's all in one piece, right, and it's all in one piece. And they said it's just hanging from this hook in the ceiling, and officers later say it looked like a Halloween costume.

Speaker 1:

In the living room they find a headless male body lying on the floor just beneath where the couch is. He's posed so that his legs were crossed and his left arm is positioned so it's hung over an empty soda bottle and it looked like how somebody would be lying on the floor with a drink, with their legs crossed, just like watching TV. But he's just posed that way, without a head or skin or skin Gross. His genitals are also missing. They've been cut off as well. They also note that there's no blood around the body, which seems really odd to them. So police began looking for Kathy and her kids, hoping that they're not going to find the kids dead in the house, because they said and this is like so traumatic for all of them they had to get some beer.

Speaker 1:

counseling, but they said that it looked like they were expecting that they were going to be walking into a murder suicide where she killed everybody in the house, did all of that to pricey and then killed herself. So they're trying to find the kids and clear the house, because everyone knows that her kids are always with her. So they're walking through the house and the halls are covered in blood smears. In the bathroom there's a piece of flesh covering the drain in the shower and then there's a black knighty that's hung on a hook in the bathroom. That's covered in blood. The first three bedrooms that they check are empty. And then they go towards the back of the house where the master bedroom is, and they hear snoring. So they open the bedroom door and they find Kathy sleeping soundly on the couple's bed with the bloody sheets lying under her. She's just asleep, she's just asleep. So they try to wake her up. They're yelling at her, they're shaking her, no reaction. She is just out. Did you take meds or something? Yes, okay.

Speaker 1:

I was like how the hell. So they handcuff her and like drag her outside and they call the ambulance. Based on the fact that they think it's a possible overdose, she's taken to the hospital where it's found that she had a therapeutic level of Promethazine, which is also Fenergan. Okay, so that's like an anti-naja medication which just for me, puts me to sleep, and it does make you very sleepy. Yeah, it makes people very, very sleepy, yeah You're not gonna throw up because you're sleeping, right.

Speaker 1:

And then Fluvoxamine, which is Luvox, which isn't used commonly anymore but it's an SSRI or an antidepressant. But both of these, or neither of these, are at toxic levels. They're both at therapeutic levels, which means she did not take enough to try and kill herself.

Speaker 1:

It was just like she was trying to calm her nerves so she could go to sleep after a long night of butchering him. Wow, yeah, at 9.30 in the morning the police show up to Kathy's house, still looking for the children, because they have no clue where they are. Yeah, eventually, after talking to people, they locate them at Natasha's unharmed the crime scene. Investigators then head back to the house to fully investigate the crime scene and they find the piece of cooked meat on the lawn. They enter the house and notice a smell of cooking instead of a dead body, which they said was really weird to them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and later, they said the house even smelled homey, which was even worse for them after what they found, because it was like, yeah, it was just like this nice meal was set out. Wow and same thing. They just think like something happened at dinner and she just flew off the handle and killed it. So they see the skin and the body like I already described, and then there's also a sharpening tool on the couch that's sitting just above the body. They find a knife which is 31.5 centimeters or 12, around 12 and a half inches long, with a six and a half inch blade, and part of the blade is broken off.

Speaker 1:

The detectives then go to the stove where there is a large pot with a lid on it and around it there's like all these vegetables, there's a vegetable like the vegetable skins, there's the knives that she used in the cutting boards to prepare the vegetables, and then there's like this large bowl of gravy. So they lift the pot to reveal Pricy's head, which had been cooked with the vegetables, and after the murder she then like so she murders him, skins him, so before she be heads him, she takes and cuts across his clavicle. They said there was one. It was almost like an autopsy, where they cut all the way across the clavicles and then another line down the belly in a T-shape around the genitals, down his legs, and then she cut the back of his arms and then across the head and then peeled the skin off in one piece, including the scalp. She then retrieved a meat hook and put it through the hair and hung the pelt from the ceiling Slash.

Speaker 1:

Marks torn through the skin in various wounds from the stabbing are noted on the pelt and the pathologist thought, based on everything that they could figure out, it took about 30 to 60 minutes to skin the body. And then she went to his skinless corp and cut off his head and the pathologist thought that this took about five to ten minutes because they said everything was so precise that the head was disarticulated directly between vertebrae, which was like a very expert manner. We hear all the time about how it's really hard to dismember a body, but if you go through the right joints it makes it easier, and she knew exactly how to do this from her time at the Abattoir. She literally never did this part of it, but she watched and she learned.

Speaker 1:

Oh creepy, it's crazy, right. She then takes his head into the kitchen, places it into the pot, adds vegetables, water and seasoning and just starts cooking. The dining table had been set and there are two plates set up with cooked cabbage, two pieces of cooked meat, pumpkin, baked potato, zucchini, squash, cabbage and gravy. There are two plate settings by each plate, and the names written on the plate settings are Jonathan and Jackie, two of his kids. Okay, the meat is later identified as steaks that had been cut from Pricey's right buttock, and the piece of meat in the backyard was also from the same area, and all they could figure out was that she had cooked it and she had actually taken a bite out of it, and then it apparently made her sick, and so she just threw it out on the backyard, which was reminiscent of when she emptied his deep freezer and threw all of the meat on the backyard. So she was going to literally serve him to his children.

Speaker 3:

There's another level.

Speaker 1:

There's something so wrong with her, and it was just the two kids that she didn't get along with. Wow.

Speaker 3:

Thankfully her house was covered in blood, because how are they gonna come in there and have dinner?

Speaker 1:

Right. I don't really know where she was going with this, but the fact that that's what her plan was she was going to feed him to his own children.

Speaker 3:

No, Ew, where did his genitals go?

Speaker 1:

They were from well, some people don't ever say. And then some sources said that they were in the pot with his head. Okay, that she had cooked the genitals with the head and the vegetables Okay, but I don't really know for sure it's disgusting.

Speaker 3:

It's so gross. It's so gross. I just skin a cat when I was in vet tech school because we had to like, see the muscles or whatever, and so we start with a full on cat and then you had to like and it was really gross. It was really gross like skinning a cat. I did not enjoy it and it was not a cat that I knew, it was a random cat that they just give you that is then yours to work on, and it was like, so disgusting and I hated doing it and I cannot imagine.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I've skinned dear before and I actually like the skinning process more than anything because it's just like kind of satisfying, just running through like certain parts of the tissue. But I absolutely a thousand percent cannot. I mean I can't imagine murdering anybody that I love, no, but to go through this, like after you've already murdered them, and take hours and hours. This is somebody that you wanted to marry, yeah, that you have been with for years, that they know your children, you know their children, you have like full-blown relationship and you just had sex with them that night Minutes before you stabbed him, yeah.

Speaker 3:

I don't think sex means like literally anything to her. It's just like a tool in her, like crazy ass, like game of whatever she does, yeah. But I like it's so humiliating, like to murder him and then skin him and then pose his body like that, yeah, and cut his head off.

Speaker 1:

And then to take a bite. And then just out of like to eat him and then just to go to sleep, and then she's like I'm real tired, I'm gonna take one of my Fenergans and just knock myself out.

Speaker 3:

No, wow she's, she's depraved like honestly, it's sick, it is sick, it's so terrible.

Speaker 1:

And reading this book and like writing up this episode, I was like yeah, it's just, it's gross, yeah, it's really gross. So she then took a shower, got dressed, left the house and went into a town called Musclebrook where Pricy's credit union was. She pulled in at 2 30 am and took out $500 from his account, waits a couple minutes and then takes out another $500 and his daily limit was a thousand. So that's all she could get. She then drives to her house where she leaves her car and then she walks back to Pricy's house and one of Pricy's neighbors is out like letting her dog out at 3 30 and sees her walking back but doesn't think anything of it and she sort of just like. She says she just like slumped back into the shadows, she's like I didn't want anyone to see me in my pajamas, but she sees her walking home at 3 30.

Speaker 1:

Okay, after the murder she dragged his body into the next room, smokes a cigarette and then poses it, which I still don't understand why or how you do any of this. No, she sets the sick scene at the table and then takes her pills and goes to sleep. Wow. So the family is informed about the murder and John Price was 44 years old. Wow 44.

Speaker 3:

His mom died at 43, right, so sad it's terrible, that's so young. That's not much older than us. I don't want to die in four years. No, no, it's terrible, it's awful, and he seemed like such a nice guy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, everybody loved him. Yeah, he just seems like such a nice guy. And to see that he was with Colleen for 15 years and never once had a problem.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Was never abusive. They had two fights that she could remember in 15 years. Yeah, goes to show you that it was this relationship. It wasn't him, right? Yeah, it was. Either a combination of them was toxic or it's just her.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean she definitely is a common relationship. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Every relationship she's had it's the same thing. Yeah, over and over. Yep, it's insane. So the whole town was shook by this, by the recent events, and they were in utter shock and disbelief. So they ended up bringing in a grief counseling group that did a community debrief, which was the first time something like that had ever been done in Australia. Okay, and 80 people came, including some of Pricie's kids. Oh.

Speaker 1:

Two trees were planted in his honor, one right behind the pub, which I thought was like that's cute, so cute, because he loved it there, right, it was like his second home and then the other one at a local park and they said his funeral was packed and there was standing room only. People expressed regret for not stepping in sooner and told a lot of fun stories about Pricie. So police go and interview Kathy three days after the murder and she denies any knowledge of the murder. She's like I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember any of that.

Speaker 1:

She claims that she can remember the whole day of the murder and remembers arriving at Pricie's late that night. She also recalls that they had sex and she said it was very pleasurable for both of them. They both climaxed and then he got up and used the bathroom and then we went to bed. That's all I remember. I don't remember anything after that. Oh convenient, yeah. So now they have to kind of decide on Kathy's mental competence. So she has extensive evaluations by multiple psychiatrists and she is diagnosed with PTSD and borderline personality, which we already knew. She had Some psychiatrists that evaluate her belief. She suffered from dissociative amnesia, which we've talked about this before on one of our episodes. That's basically where you forget or block out traumatic or stressful events. But more psychiatrists felt that that was not an accurate diagnosis. Right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I don't think it was either. Robert Della Force, who was the prosecutor's psychiatrist. Psychiatrist psychiatrist rejected the dissociative amnesia claims and he says that during his interviews with Kathy she was very inconsistent and showed obvious signs of distress when asked about the murder and what she did to the body after the murder and to him he says that reaction is proof that she remembers it and is now feeling guilt about it. He is certain that she got Satisfaction from the murder. Yeah, and the way he says this I thought was so good. He said he likens this to having an affair, in that you know it's wrong, but you get gratification and joy in the moment, yeah, and so you just keep doing it. And then later is when you feel guilty and some regret and I was like even though there's completely different things, but it's like a perfect analogy.

Speaker 3:

But it is a perfect analogy.

Speaker 1:

And he said that's how. That's exactly what's happening.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, cuz I do think like she did get gratification out of it, mm-hmm but that, and she knew it was wrong. And then she probably does like after the fact, like oh, I shouldn't have done that. Like, oh, that was an overreaction.

Speaker 1:

Yeah that was overkill for sure. So she. He also says that that doesn't mean that she Doesn't remember or that she didn't know what she was doing was wrong. He believes this was a very controlled move, price, he was going to break things off with Kathy and she knew it was happening and she wasn't going to get anything from the house or any of his possessions, and so this made her spin out of control and so she felt like she needed to take control back. Yeah, and so that he she started planning this days in advance and then carried it out. He also says the crime was a case of pickerism, which is I think we've talked about this as well, but it's a sexual interest in penetrating the skin of another person. Okay, with sharp objects, mm-hmm. And felt that because she did this so many times that she did get sexual gratification in the process, okay. In his second report, he claims that there were copycat moments from some of her favorite movies, like resurrection, idol, hands and oxygen. I haven't seen any of those. I've seen idol hands?

Speaker 1:

I haven't seen any of them and he felt that she had developed these violent fantasies of killing John Price and then created a very detailed plan to carry it out. Okay, he claims there was very little evidence to say that this was a crime of passion or something that she did on a whim, without planning. Okay, and he goes on to say that he felt her borderline personality disorder had absolutely Nothing to do with the murder.

Speaker 3:

Okay, I can see that.

Speaker 1:

The defense hired their own psychiatrist to evaluate her yeah, and his name was dr Milton and and he also disagreed with the dissociative amnesia diagnosis and said, basically no, it's bullshit. He also felt that she knew exactly what she was doing. He stated that Kathy had certain personality traits that led to this, but it wasn't anything to do with her BPD and this is a direct quote that says these are her, these are her nature. So he's talking about, like her, her personality characteristics, these are her nature and didn't stop her from knowing what she was doing, if they were right or wrong, or being able to stop, and this is the defense is like I try to.

Speaker 3:

He's a badass because generally they're hired and like paid or whatever to do, like whatever. They make some shit up yeah yeah, yeah. I like that.

Speaker 1:

He and I've never actually heard this from like a defense.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I like that. He was like uh, I'm sorry, but like no, like no, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So he says that she knew it was wrong as well, but did it anyways because she is a callous and vicious person. He also felt that she never lost the ability to control herself and was very and was never impaired. He agreed that she found pleasure in the murder and the defilement of the corpse.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah, I mean I, I agree.

Speaker 1:

Yes, so Pricie's best mate, laurie, was the executor of the will and he had done this like years in advance, after Colleen had left him. He had made a will, he'd put everything in his kid's name, he had named Laurie his executor. And so he starts going through his finances and he got like all of his statements from his banking institutions and he sees this withdrawal of $1,000 from the night of the murder.

Speaker 1:

So he's like wait a second, like he's already gone by this point. So he goes to the credit, to the credit union, to confirm this and he's like I need to know exactly what time these were taken out. So they pull everything up and they realize that it was after his death, mm-hmm, and that it was Kathy who had taken the money out. So he takes this information to detectives. Who believes that this also proves motive and how calm and rational she was thinking after the murder. Yeah, which is like a whole nother level. Yeah, before the trial, judge O'Keefe issues a pretty harsh warning to the jury about the content of the trial. And he did this in the in the jury like selection process, where he's like listen, you're gonna see and hear some of the most disturbing things you have ever seen in your life. You will need counseling after this. Like it's, it's a pretty good statement. It's long so I didn't include it in this but he's like if you don't feel like you can handle this or it's not something you want to sign up for, you're welcome to leave now. Yeah, and so a bunch of people just got up in life.

Speaker 1:

So after this warning, about an hour into the jury selection, he gets a little note and he just dismisses them pretty suddenly. Okay, like, just come back tomorrow, you're all dismissed. So they all leave and the following day, judge O'Keefe enters the courtroom and the charges are read and he asks how do you plea? And and Catherine says that she pleads guilty. Oh, okay, which was shocking to everybody, right? But I think her lawyers probably got like the results from their specialist. Yeah, I was like we don't have a chance. Yeah, so she pleads guilty and prices families in the courtroom and they just cry out in relief because now they know that they won't have to go to trial.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I want to like see all of the horrific evidence and everything and they still do have to hear and see some of this because in the sentencing hearing, so when somebody pleads guilty, the lawyers still sort of present their case.

Speaker 1:

That's true in the sentence to determine the sentence, because the judge can offer a reduced sentence, like you could offer manslaughter Instead of murder, one like the time served or the time that they will get. I don't know what I'm trying to say. The time that they'll sentence them to could be more like what you would see in a manslaughter instead of a murder. One, yeah, based on the facts and the evidence of the case.

Speaker 1:

So a video of the crime scene was played in the courtroom and right before it's played, kathy, like it, asks to be out of the courtroom. She doesn't want to see it and so they let her. So she goes out of the courtroom and as soon as they play it, then she comes back in and the prosecutor goes through all of the forensic evidence Shows, the video that she made of her kids and grandkids and that bizarre statement about hoping to see her kids again. Yeah, they have testimony from her own daughter, natasha, that she had said on Several occasions, if she ever kills pricey, that she'll then kill herself. They just have all this evidence lined up against her and they talk about the mutilation after the murder. And during this, kathy asks to leave again and the judge is like no, yeah, you have to sit here and listen to what you don't think I should have let her leave?

Speaker 3:

I don't either. For the first one like I don't. You did this shit. You watch it again.

Speaker 1:

So they start going into details about the mutilation and she's like in her seat rocking back and forth, like moaning super loudly. Her lawyer asks again if she can leave and he's like no, and he refuses to let her leave. And At some point during the testimony she like throws herself on the floor and just starts screaming and shaking and she's like uncontrollable. Okay, so they pull her out of the courtroom. She's treated for a panic attack. Courts adjourned, they come back the next day to kind of Finish up testimony.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and Kathy's lawyer his last name is Thraves presents their case, which doesn't have a lot of info but that basically she has mental issues, she's had no prior criminal history, she has kids and grandkids, she has a probability of being rehabilitated and she pled guilty, which shows ownership, and they think that the judge should show her some mercy. On November 8th 2024, judge o'Keefe said that her lack of previous conviction didn't matter because there was a history of abuse and violence that had just gone Unreported. He also said mercy was given to prisoners who confessed their crimes and Showed true remorse, neither of which cat Kathy had done. Yeah, she always, every time she was violent to anyone, blamed them.

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm and he then sentences Kathy to life in prison without the possibility of pearl, and she was the first female in Australian history to be given this sentence. Wow, after lots and lots and lots of digging, the thousand dollars was never found. How did she do with it? Nobody has any clue what she did with it.

Speaker 3:

That's bizarre, right when did it go. You just like throw it out the window as you drove home, like haha, took a thousand of your dollars. Yeah, it's never found. I think she gave it to a kid, one of her kids.

Speaker 1:

I think she has to have something. I think she was probably like I'm gonna get whatever I can to help my family raised my kids. You, that's so weird. And left it maybe in some hiding spot in her house or something. That is super weird and probably told Natasha like, hey, if anything ever happens to me, check here.

Speaker 3:

There's always money in the banana stand.

Speaker 1:

Because she had kind of planned like planned all of this out. So I feel like that's probably what happens, but that's all speculation. We'll never know. And she is still in prison. Wow. So that is the terrible, horrific story of Kathy.

Speaker 3:

Knight. I mean, after hearing all of this stuff, all of it, all of it, like I mean kudos to her family for loving her and thinking she was a nice, kind, wonderful human, but it doesn't really seem like she truly was. She might have had those traits where, like every so often, she was nice, or maybe to her siblings, because it's not a partner but when it comes to being like in a relationship with her, and they all stood by her, like they all continued to visit her and they were like, of course, we don't agree with what she did, like that's horrific.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we just always love, but we don't like that's not the Kathy we knew. I mean, I think I might do that if it was love her.

Speaker 3:

I think I would do that if, maybe, if it was my kid, you know, like I, like you, did some terrible things and I'm in there, maybe visit you. But if it was my sister now, I don't think I would, I don't think I would want to go visit anymore.

Speaker 1:

I truly don't know that I could visit my kids if they did something like this. I know it's hard to imagine.

Speaker 3:

I hope I never have to find out.

Speaker 1:

Me too Like please Lord, let me never find out. But yeah. Yeah, I mean it's hard because you still love them right and you just like an abusive relationship.

Speaker 3:

You like hold on to all the good things about them, they knew a different person. Yeah, so that would be hard, like if truly, like you're, like I never like knew that side of her, like, if you like, if they really never had, unless it was like provoked, you know, like they said, like she never started anything, like she wasn't a bully, she only protected herself, and then this all happens. It would be hard to be like now like something had to have like pushed her to this point, when I don't think that's what it was at all.

Speaker 1:

No, Wow, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to take in. You did good Thanks. You did good, I've done, good, all right. Shall we get to our soul twins. Oh yeah, soul twins Okay.

Speaker 3:

So I found this one and it is from December of last year. It was a little bit of time. It was updated like December 29th, but the tagline or headline or whatever is a former wild child searched for her foster mom, who changed her life 40 years ago and found her. So it says Essie Gilchrist, known as Mama Essie to many children she fostered.

Speaker 1:

Mama Essie, mama Essie, that's so cute.

Speaker 3:

Let's add a gasp when she learns that Hannah Smith is looking for her. It's been more than four decades since Gilchrist last saw Smith, but she remembers her vividly. Back then, smith went by her middle name, marie. Marie had the most gorgeous red hair, gilchrist tells today Over the phone. I've never stopped thinking about her and she's been searching for me.

Speaker 3:

On December 13th, smith shared a tribute to Gilchrist on social media in hopes that someone might have information on her whereabouts, and she said, quote I was 12 years old and my mother lost the ability to parent me safely. I was taken from her and put into a huge, scary children's shelter. It took a long time, but they finally found someone who had taken a deeply troubled, rather wild child like me, and that was a post she had put on Twitter X. I think I feel like when something is because this is a post on X, formerly known as Twitter. Okay, are we prints?

Speaker 3:

Anyway, while reflecting on her time at Gilchrist House in Stockton, california, smith described herself as a hooligan and a wild, ignorant child. Oh, I know, I wasn't at all nice to her. I stole from her. I ran up her phone bill calling my boyfriend. I eventually ran away and was put back in the shelter and never saw her again. I'm sure it broke her heart. And the foundation of everything I know about grace, about dignity, about fashion, makeup, hair care I still use a pic elegance, excellence, self-care, patience, love, goodness, generosity and fierceness in the face of pain came from my mama.

Speaker 3:

Essie Smith, who is now a trauma therapist in the state of Washington, went on to note that she had tried to find Gilchrist in the past without any luck. Gilchrist had gotten married and changed her last name, which is why she was having such a hard time tracking her down. Mama Essie, if you're still with, us are peering through the windows of heaven. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Smith concluded I heard you, I saw you, you made a difference more than you'll ever know. I have like goosebumps.

Speaker 1:

Oh, me too.

Speaker 3:

During a phone call with today, on December 14th, less than 24 hours after her tweet went viral, smith said she's shaking with happiness. Did you see? Someone found her? Smith said Mama Essie is still living in Stockton. She's alive. Have you seen the picture?

Speaker 2:

She's beautiful, oh my gosh, and there's this there's Mama Essie.

Speaker 3:

Look at her, she's the sweetest person.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, she does.

Speaker 3:

She just looks like she's just like nothing, but like niceness. Smith is excited to talk about Gilchrist, who was a bright spot in a dark childhood. She recalls dancing with her foster sisters to Michael Jackson's thriller video in Gilchrist's elegant all-white living room. At dinner Everyone gathered around the table and shared about their day. I felt like I was in a family. I knew I was safe and secure and I knew nothing bad was going to happen to me. When I got sick in the middle of the night, mama Essie brought me to the hospital and sat with me. She showed me there was kindness in the world. I wouldn't be where I am today without her.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, this is like look at how that's her. And she became a trauma therapist.

Speaker 3:

God is good, gilchrist said, when she learns that Smith is happily married and a licensed therapist. Gilchrist, who is now in her 70s, fostered children of all ages for nearly 30 years. All left in a net, in in a netable.

Speaker 1:

Yes, please believe in a netable. We are not eating anymore people, okay.

Speaker 3:

All left an indelible mark on her heart and she has left a lasting impact on them. I've heard from so many of the kids over the years. Gilchrist said what I tried to do is give them confidence and teach them coping skills. I tell them you're smart and you're going to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you can have a good life. And it says on December 15th, smith shared a happy update on X. Good morning lovelies. 45 minutes with Essie on the phone last night was amazing, so much I forgot. I felt like we've been pacing wandering. I feel my soul stirring again. I know my story helps people. I feel inspired, infused. I'm here for it. Good things are coming.

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, I love this Because you always hear about like the shit stories from foster care. And then you get these people who, like, actually care and make a difference in all these kids' lives. Yeah, like she said, she wouldn't be where she is or who she is without this lady?

Speaker 3:

No, and do you think that's a recent picture? She's freaking 70? I know.

Speaker 1:

I was going to say she looks like. They look like almost the same age. No, I was like wait a second. Was she like a teenager when she took these kids in? That's what I was thinking, too. What?

Speaker 3:

is happening, but apparently she's just 70 and just looks awesome. That's what happens being such an amazing, nice, wonderful human is you're blessed with, like, looking beautiful when you're 70.

Speaker 3:

That's right, but yeah like I've said, in the past I could not be a foster parent because I just I don't have that within me to give to other kids like you would need to. You're bringing in kids who have trauma. I mean this sounds like this girl was. I mean she was 12 and she was taken out of her mom's care, like that's hard, no matter how shitty or whatever your parents did, like that's a hard time, and then to be put in it, you know, in a children's, essentially an orphanage, and then put into this other house and that's a lot of stuff Like and you're dealing with multiple kids. It sounds like that she has at one time, dealing with all sorts of different traumas and issues and for you to just be like just a wonderful person and just making them feel like part of a family and loved and, yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 3:

We need more people like this oh my gosh, Mama Essie, you're amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, everyone needs a Mama Essie.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would take one. Yeah, me too, mama Essie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do you want to adopt us, please? Please.

Speaker 3:

We'll take you. You seem amazing, yeah.

Speaker 1:

All right, well, that was a good one. Yeah, we needed that. So, if you guys have any soul cleanses, anything local, anything that you want to promote, let us know, and we're also going to start to maybe do like a sponsorship for our soul cleanse. So, yeah, if you want to be a sponsor, if you're a counseling center, if you're a business, if you're anything that promotes good in the world, and you want to sponsor our soul cleanse, then reach out to us. Yeah, we would love to do it. We would love to. So, all right, well, follow us on all of the things. Again, yes, go support us on Patreon. If you like our podcast, go give us a five star review.

Speaker 3:

Just give us a five star review. You don't even have to like us, just do it. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1:

Yes, please. Well, if they don't like us, they wouldn't make it this far into the episode.

Speaker 3:

Maybe not. Maybe they're like shut it off by now. Maybe they were like there's got to be something getting better at the end. Right, I'll hold on there it is Don't be disappointed.

Speaker 1:

And remember to keep listening if you want in on the sin. Bye guys, bye.

Sinners Among Saints
Delusional Woman Seeks Revenge
(Cont.) Delusional Woman Seeks Revenge
Toxic Relationship and Spiraling Behavior
Fatal Stabbing After Relationship Conflict
Gruesome Murder and Cannibalism Case
Murder, Grief, and Mental Evaluation
Legal Proceedings in Katherine Knight Case
Incredible Journey of Finding Foster Mom