Mountain Cog
Mountain bike podcast that will make you laugh and learn. Featuring a wide range of passionate guests. Available everywhere (Apple, Spotify etc).
Mountain Cog
134 - Bike Shop Secrets: 9 Problems, 9 Fixes: From Fork Feel To Hot Waxed Chains
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Dane and Josh dig into nine grease-under-the-fingernails topics this week, kicking things off with a question that's been bugging Josh for weeks: why can two identical forks feel completely different? Turns out it's a mix of manufacturing tolerances, bushing wear, and oil that's gone stale — and the guys walk through how altitude changes your air spring feel too (plus the weird lawsuit history behind why some forks have bleeder buttons and others don't). From there it's straight into hub end caps falling off, why your spokes might be pinging after a truing, and the right way to torque your pedals without stripping a crank.
The back half gets into chain wax gone wrong — including a lube-mixing mistake that turned Josh's chain into a gunky mess — plus a real debate over which shop tools are actually worth the money versus the ones collecting dust on the wall. They close out with a cautionary tale about e-bike internal cable routing that'll make you think twice before DIY-ing a dropper post install. If you wrench on your own bike even occasionally, this is one to bookmark.
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Dad Jokes And Shop Banter
Host - Dane HigginsAre you making that noise? I'm like, what the hell is that?
Host - Josh AndersonI don't know. One of us did it in one of the past episodes that I was listening to. It's an it's an episode we haven't published yet. And I was listening to it and I'm like, oh, that was cool. Who did that?
Host - Dane HigginsWhat was it? Just a nice. Stupidest things, man. All right, you got a dad joke I heard. I do. Yeah. My wife and I were coming back from this weekend, and she had a great one, and I'm like, I gotta write that down. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo Oh, you're setting it up now. You're setting it up maybe too strong.
Host - Dane HigginsNo, it's it's not that great. It's good. But compared to like last week's last week's pretty bad.
Host - Josh AndersonYou got a CD's nuts? Yeah.
Host - Dane HigginsThat was not a kidnapping. Yeah, that was a bad joke. This is a stellar joke. Okay, okay. Comparatively. Comparatively. So yeah. So um what are a kidnapper's favorite shoes?
Host - Josh AndersonWhat are a kidnapper's favorite shoes? Yeah. Man, I don't know. What are kidnapper's favorite shoes?
Host - Dane HigginsWhite vans.
Host - Josh AndersonJesus Christ. With no windows. With no windows? Since we both drive vans now. That's pretty funny. I know. Well, you know that I work uh remotely, right? Yep. Yeah. And uh I do a lot of my work over Zoom. Yep. Um so this week I told a joke uh in one of my Zoom meetings, and it was a funny joke, but like nobody left. Oh, why? Uh well my my hypothesis it's because I'm not remotely funny.
Host - Dane HigginsThat's that's a decent joke. That's better. That's better than the last one. You redeemed yourself for sure. So like that is a doable joke.
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, so Wednesday night
Summer Deals And A Secret Bike
Host - Josh Andersonhere on the MCP. We're sitting in guru bikes. It's hot summertime. It's nice in here. It's nice in here, but it's hot out. Yeah, it's real nice in here. Uh but it's hot outside. 106. It's crazy. Like it's crazy. But we still out riding. We get up early. Actually, I've been doing more night night night rides and early rides. Um Yeah. I bet you got a lot of great deals going on in this shop at the moment. Yeah, too nice.
Host - Dane HigginsSummertime in the desert, not the most busy time in the world. Not the busy time for bike shops.
Host - Josh AndersonSo good good opportunity for folks to buy bikes.
Host - Dane HigginsTwo two things that happen in our shop that's fun is one, we do mark down some bikes that have been here too long. Yeah. If they're too dusty. Um and we got some really good deals. Not that I'm trying to pump that, but the other thing that happens is we get to kind of pick up the pieces of what is lying around and make cool stuff. So we have a bunch of project builds that are maybe we sold us a frame and parted a bike out. Yeah. And then we bought some closeout frames and we start kind of Frankensteining bikes together and and making like killer deals, you know. Yeah. We got some downhill bikes we're building that are a killer deal. One guy already got to take advantage of one of our riders that listens.
Host - Josh AndersonI know that uh Frito Pendido is gonna get one of these.
Host - Dane HigginsHe's getting a suite rig.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, it's like the tra he's getting like the track uh trek session. Yeah, yeah, carbon.
Host - Dane HigginsOh, yeah, it's a pretty, pretty insane deal. And then uh yeah, we've got some pivots. I did a uh uh video for our Facebook or Instagram showing of some of the the you know how how could you afford a pivot, you know, because you know, a lot of a lot of times pivots pivots are you know Yeti is always called the Dennis bike. I don't know what you call a pivot, um, but they're high-end bikes. They're nice high-end bikes. They're the one thing that I like telling customers about pivot is there there's no cheap frame. There so when you buy a trek or a specialized or a Santa Cruz or a lot of brands, they'll have different frames at different price points. And with Pivot, you get the cheapest pivot, you're getting the best frame, the the top of the line frame. If if they've got a $12,000 pivot and you get a $5,000 pivot, you're getting the same frame.
Host - Josh AndersonSame frame. Yeah. And and we're not allowed to talk about that special thing over there yet.
Host - Dane HigginsNo, we're gonna do an episode on that. Um but people keep taking pictures of it, which is my fault because it's right out in front of everybody. And I gotta do that.
Host - Josh AndersonSo if you want to see something, if you're in Tucson, you want to see something secret that is like one of the fucking sickest things I've ever seen, come into guru bikes before Dane puts this thing back and hides it.
Host - Dane HigginsWell, I honestly I got some news today that it may that that may be really exciting or uh, you know, so yeah, let's not tell let's not say too much. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to I don't want to talk too much about it, but it's really exciting nudes, so I'll definitely want to tell people about it. When we can. So yeah. When we can.
Host - Josh AndersonBut it's uh let's just say it's currently on display, and if you walk into Guru bikes, you cannot miss it.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, no, it is one of a kind for sure. Sure.
Host - Josh AndersonThat's a that's a sweet thing. Yeah. All right, so um bike shop secret episode today. Yeah. It's been a minute since we recorded one, and I have been uh collecting over the last, you know, whatever month or so different things as I as I run into topics that I want to talk to you about, or if I am struggling with um something on my bike, or I whatever, I just write it down. Like I should we should talk about this on the podcast because if I'm struggling, um there's probably other people as well.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd I sat in a list, and he's like, damn, this is an eclectic list, bro.
Host - Dane HigginsIt's like scattered all over the place.
Host - Josh AndersonDon't expect there to be some major theme.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, yeah.
Why Two Forks Feel Different
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, so the first topic here um was I and I cannot remember, it was on another podcast that I was listening to. And the and I and I for the life of me cannot remember what the podcast was, so I apologize to the the person or the podcast that I was listening to, and I forgot, but the the the guy I was listening to had this hypothesis that no two forks are the same.
Host - Dane HigginsOkay.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd so what he was basically saying, or what he what he experienced, I guess is the better way to say it, was that he dialed in a fork, ended up getting it perfect, got all of his sag, his compressors, his volume spacers, his um rebound, you know, low speed, high speed compression, everything just dialed perfect. Got the same fork on a different bike, uh split the same frame, put all those settings in, and it didn't feel good. And so he started thinking about it, and he and his hypothesis here is that like no two forks are the same. And and you know, some of the reasons why I I was just trying to think like why would that be? Why would like two Fox 36s from the same year, same batch, same everything be different? And I started to think about it, and I thought, okay, well there there could have been like slight deviations in the manufacturing tolerances. Like oftentimes when you when you know, so I work for an engineering company and a production company, and oftentimes when you build something, there's like a r an acceptable range.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, yeah, a tolerance, a tolerance plus or minus.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, plus or minus. And so maybe one of the forks was on the bottom of that acceptable range, one of the forks was on the top of that acceptable range. So manufacturing differences was one of the things I thought. Another thing I thought was like maybe there were different differences in the oil, like the weight, the brand, maybe even like how old the oil was, because I think oil over time changes its viscosity.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonThen I thought, you know, there's bushings, and so maybe there were some differences in the bushings and the way the bushings were behaving, and then maybe the forks were like maintained differently. Like one was like well maintained, one was bad maintained, or maintained by different people who do different things. So, anyways, so my question is like do you think it's possible, or is it a fact that like no two forks are the same, and you really are gonna have to put the time into setting up every single fork, even if you buy the exact same fork for another bike or or as a replacement?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I I think it would be pretty impossible for them to be identical, you know, to to the level that it seems like you're he's you know maybe thinking about it or you're thinking about it. Because you're right, like you know, uh when the shim stack is put together, the threads could be slightly like 180 degrees of the other one, so the shimstack goes on a little farther. Yeah, or something like that, or uh the ports could be slightly, you know, bigger. The like you said, the oil. Um, one thing that's really common on a lot of forks and uh people on the internet will talk about is they'll get shipped with either too low of oil or too much oil or too much grease in the air uh chamber uh that will affect it.
Host - Josh AndersonUm because if there's more grease, then that takes up air volume.
Host - Dane HigginsSo it's almost like having a spacer inside if there's a lot of there's a lot of like residual grease in there. Okay. And if there's too little bath oil, your your bushings may be getting starved. You can definitely have um bushing tolerance. That I would say that would be to me, that would be probably the biggest one because I see pretty big swings, you know.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd in the tolerances of different bushings, I'm the same fork.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, there's you know, those popular videos online where people are watching the upper tube slide into the lowers, you know, and you know, the first thing they show is like it doesn't slide and then they work on it and make it magically slide right in there. Yeah, I mean you can resize those bushings to change those things. Right. And you do a little bit of that with I do it when it matters, but um, you know, how sensitive the rider is to those changes makes a big difference. Yeah. Um I just had a fork in recently. Oh, well, one of our employees had a fork, a Fox 36 that was brand new, and he could not get it dialed in. It was brand new, came on his bike, and ultimately it had a bad um negative O-ring, and so the negative chamber was dumping into the lowers. So he just could not get it dialed in. It would feel good on the test ride, and then as soon as he went and rode it, it would feel like garbage.
Host - Josh AndersonThat oil got moved in, it would start dumping in.
Host - Dane HigginsThe the the fork has two air chambers, a positive and a negative. So he's charging it, you know, in the shop, pushing it up and down, setting SAG, goes out and rides it, it hasn't leaked out, so it feels fine. Yeah. Then while it sits on his car to go to the trail, that air has leaked out of the negative chamber, so now the fork feels really rigid. And so then it has to reset again, and then it can keep changing. So and ultimately I just rebuilt the air system and he's like, it was night and day. So and that was on a new fork that came on a bike. So um, so you can definitely have two forks that have different things going on. Um, for the most part, these forks are pretty much the same inside, there's not a huge change, but you had brought up well, one was maintained versus the other. Yeah, you can have a huge swing in performance over time, you know. So like if you if you bought a new fork and are riding it and has a feel, and then you get an old fork that needs service, they would definitely feel different.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah. Okay. So I guess the takeaway is, well, first and foremost, like make sure that you're maintaining your suspension products. Yeah. And but but um don't expect to be able to just plug your, you know, your your PSI and your settings in. Yeah. It's it may not feel the same.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and as long as I've been doing suspension, I don't ever count on the amount of clicks on these adjusters being the same at every fork. Uh, and I've had people say, oh, the manual said I should have 15 clicks and I'm only counting 14. And I'm like, uh, you know, again, the thread pitch of where that knob is is turning could be that you're just not getting that last click. And sometimes they'll change them. So like one series will have fourteen and another one will have seven. And that's a big difference. You'll be reading the owner's manual for the wrong one. Or you and you get to seven and you're like, I got eight more.
Host - Josh AndersonWhat the heck?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, or what's really common is you Google it and AI tells you there should be fourteen, thinking that you've got the 2027 and you've got a 2023, whatever. And they're different, you know. And it doesn't know. Uh even when you put in the date,
Altitude Bleeders And Oil Leaks
Host - Dane Higginsit may not know.
Host - Josh AndersonSo I'm gonna pull an audible on you, something that's not on the list. Because you just you just um uh put something in my head. Jogged your memory. Jog my memory. So um over the last month and a half, two months, we've been spending a lot of time at higher altitudes on the bikes. I think largely because we got the van and we're trying to get up out of the heat. Yeah. So we're riding, you know, up up top on mountains, we're riding bike parks, whatever. Uh one of the things, and we've talked about this on the podcast previously, is that when you go up in altitude, like if you if you're driving at a lower altitude than you climb significantly, there's actually like a reset on the back of some of the foxes, anyways, buttons that you can push that will like let some of the air out to I guess equalize and account for that change in air density that was caused by the altitude change.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonI noticed on my Zeb that I don't have buttons, but there are two little knobs there, but I but they don't do anything.
Host - Dane HigginsYou have to loosen them and then you unwind them a little bit. So there should be an Allen wrench and then they're knurled. And you put the Allen wrench and you crack them a little bit, and then you can use your finger to just kind of back them out a little bit, and then they'll bleed a little air. If there's no pressure differentiation, there won't be any air bleed. Like you won't hear it.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, so I so basically instead of having a button like on the Fox ones, yeah, on my Z I need to use an Allen wrench.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonJust break that seal a little bit, and then I can loosen them and I should hear a little air come out. Tighten them back up finger tight or whatever, or or you know, slightly with the Allen wrench, and I'm done.
Host - Dane HigginsYep, yeah. Interesting thing, the Fox and Rock Shock, I believe, had the lawsuit against each other, and I think Fox won. I think that's correct, because your Zeb has the newer air valves, which don't have buttons because they lost the lawsuit.
Host - Josh AndersonSo the so the buttons were around a lawsuit.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and um, so I have my Zeb has the buttons on it. Okay. Because it's just a little bit older. It's the same casting, so but they don't offer those buttons anymore. If you if if you get new air bleeders, they'll come like yours.
Host - Josh AndersonCould you install the buttons on mine?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, but you can't get them. So because they're not allowed to sell them. So yeah, so they don't have them. Another interesting uh thing is DVO has had those bleeder buttons longer than both of them. And so I don't know how that works.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, how did they get how did they not? I don't know. Um Let's not let's not start an IP battle, right? Maybe we shouldn't need to be talking about that.
Host - Dane HigginsThere's something in the patent that's not an issue, but I think the new DVOs maybe don't have the buttons anymore.
Host - Josh AndersonSo maybe they're wrapped up in it too?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Could be totally we're totally speculating. Yeah, could yeah, I have no idea. But but yeah, there was a fight over that. Like just who gets a button. Now the new Zeb has buttons.
Host - Josh AndersonOh, for fuck's sake.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. So the what they did was on the brand new 27s, they moved the buttons up to the crown. And so I think it's on the crown, it's okay. Yeah, I think on the crown it just gets rid of that problem. Yeah. But how crazy is that if that's how they got away with it? I doubt that they put them up there because of you know uh the lawsuit, yeah. They wanted buttons, you know, or something. But what if they did? You know, who knows? They're like, oh, you won't let us have them here. We'll remove them and we'll show you.
Host - Josh AndersonSo yeah, it's kind of crazy. So oh man, the lawyers, that's interesting. You're right. Okay, thank you. Well, so that's good for our listeners to know. And just as a reminder, we've talked about though that on the podcast before, but if you go up in elevation, yeah, uh, and your forks feeling usually stiffer. Stiffer, yeah, you can check those little bleed ports. And just just if you have the buttons, I'll just warn you, you have to kind of press really hard.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and sometimes you have to uh rock them back and forth. Okay. So like to get the air. And you may get a little oil. So on the draw on the non-drive side over the disc, you know. Be careful. Yeah, maybe do it with a rag or something. Um, because there's a channel, uh, depending on the generation of fork, there's usually a channel that takes the oil up to the bushings and it runs right over those. And so oil can sometimes sit in them. Another interesting thing, because we do a lot of suspension here, uh, and we pull the forks off to do the suspension. If you set one of those forks on the table uh with the buttons down, they can leak all that oil out.
Host - Josh AndersonThat happened in my truck, remember that? I was I was I was traveling with one and I pulled it out. Like, there's fucking like Danger, you thought you worked on this. It's like leaking all over my truck, and you're like, dumbass. Yeah. You set it up.
Host - Dane HigginsI I've set them down like that before and come back and seen a puddle, and I'm like, damn it. Because then I gotta go measure the oil and you gotta take all the oil out. If it's a little bit, don't worry about it. But if it if you let it sit there and it has a big pool, you want to replenish that black power.
Host - Josh AndersonWell, if you ever sit in the back of my truck and you see the big stain on the seat, that's what it is.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, they ship with little rubber bumpers uh on a lot of them. So like the Fox in particular, they're red bumpers, and we often see those still on them when people are riding them.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah.
Host - Dane HigginsBecause they don't know, you know, I they're not really designed to stay on there. They don't have a a good enough friction, so they're gonna fall off. But the amount of people that I see at bike parks and stuff with those little red things still on, it it kind of cracks me up. So and I would leave them on just to see how long they'll last. It's like it's like putting reflectors on to see how long they'll stay on your bike.
Host - Josh AndersonSo wait, so you're not supposed to keep those red things on? No.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Now I have I have on my little uh on the rock shock ones, they're black, and if I remember correctly, I could be wrong, they have a little indent, and they can stay there. Okay. Uh, and and they won't fall off. But the red fox ones don't have enough friction to last.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay. Well, hey, there you learn something new every day.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Hub End Caps And Axle Choices
Host - Josh AndersonUm, next topic. Um, and you'll remember this. So I've been taking the front wheels of my bikes off much more frequently because the way that we store them in the van under the bed is with the front wheel off and then the fork mounted into some fork mounts, which is mounted to a piece of wood. Yeah. That's how we that's how we uh mount them and carry it in the van. And so um previously I never pulled the front wheel off unless I was doing maintenance. Yeah. Um, but one of the things that started happening or actually happened right away was one of the hubcaps, one of the caps on the hub just was like falling out. Right. And it actually became kind of a pain in the ass because I'm trying to like take the wheel out, I'm trying to hold the bike up and lift it, and then the hubcap falls down, and it it's you know, it's got oil and grease, and so it falls in the dirt, and then I got the hubcaps, got all this oil and grease, and I gotta stop and like put everything down and like clean that hub cap off and then put it back in. Um so and then I came in and then you did a fix that is fixed that. So maybe like does that happen a lot? Why does that happen? And what did you do to fix it so our folks know if they deal with this? And then does it matter?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, so the hubcaps are kind of cool on hubs, because a lot of hubs over the years you can convert. So the manufacturers kind of build them a certain way, but they in the back of their heads, I think they're always keeping in mind that a new standard may pop up, and so they try and engineer in a little bit of flexibility. And so um so one of the things that happened uh way back in the day is there used to be quick releases on mountain bikes where you would have like the end caps would have these little nubs that sat into an open uh frame, and then you'd have a quick release that went through and tightened your wheel on, uh, and it wasn't what we call now a through axle. And so when they switched to through axle, a lot of the manufacturers had designed their hubs to be adaptable and they could just switch the hubcaps. So that's one reason that hubcaps are in a lot of cases built to where they friction fit on and off. Sometimes they use an O-ring to hold them on.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd uh in the desert, we have to deal with O-rings drying out and falling off, which stuff definitely happens or shrinking, um, just overall just so that's what could have happened to mine was that the O-ring dried out, shrunk a little bit, and then it no longer had enough positive friction to hold it in a place.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. And then also that hub may have been designed to have multiple caps, so your caps may have been on the one end where they were just back to the tolerance thing again. Yeah, just barely fitting. Whereas if you were running a quick release setup, they may have had something that plugged in there and really was solid. And so so you may have been at the at the openest end, because you have 15 mil uh through axle. Yep. So um, and then the hub shell itself has to have a bearing in it, and so they're just trying to deal with all those different tolerances and not have the huge these these gigantic hubs. So hub caps sometimes can plug in, sometimes they just have an o-ring holding them, sometimes um they screw on.
Host - Josh AndersonIf it's loose, does it matter?
Host - Dane HigginsNo. So when it's actually on the bike and tightened down. Yeah, your axle is going to preload those caps onto the bearings properly, and everything will be good and solid. Uh the problem is when you pull the through axle out, if that o ring has rotted and gone away, your end cap can fall off. And it's just when you're taking it apart. And we You've even seen on some hubs where like your cassette on the rear will just fall off, you know, and the customer's like, I I just took my wheel out to change my flat, and the cassette just fell out.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd then it fell into like 47 pieces. Which sucks.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd I don't know where the little spacers go. Or it got a bunch of dirt in it or what have you. And that's usually a result of those O-rings in there rotting away over time or just going away. So and uh sometimes you can get the O-rings, sometimes you can't. You have to buy new caps. It kind of sucks. Oh, Jesus. In your case, I went in and found uh just a slightly bigger O-ring than you had because your O-ring didn't go anywhere, it just was too small, and the cap just had barely enough to come out, especially because if you pull your wheel off at any kind of angle, it'll kind of pry it out.
Host - Josh AndersonWhich is what I'm doing, right? Because like I'm trying to it's an e-bike. This is Maggie's heavy bike, it's heavy, I'm trying to hold it, and all doing it all my while in my lonesome, so yeah.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. And so uh I just put a little tiny bit bigger O-ring to hold it. So and then uh it'll have if it touches, the O-ring touches, you may have a little friction, which we found on yours it did just a little bit. A little bit of oil or grease will get rid of that. And once it gets preloaded and ridden, you won't notice it. Doesn't matter. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo thanks for that. Yeah. Um that spurred two more drop-ins. So this is fantastic because I'm adding to our list, which means we'll never get to the end of it. Nice. All right. So the first one is um on one of the bikes that I've been loading a lot, I actually have a quick release through axle.
Host - Dane HigginsYes. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd that is sweet.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonBecause I don't have to go get a tool and it's a lot easier to like manage.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd so I was like, well, shit, man, maybe I should replace all of these axles with through axles. Yeah. With quick release through axles. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do that?
Host - Dane HigginsUm, no, you gotta make sure you get the right hardware. Uh sometimes you have to change other parts other than just the axle. So, like on a Fox, there's a different hardware at the other end, you know, that you use. Because quick releases, if you want to clock them, so once you get everything tight, if the handle is sticking straight down or straightforward, it's kind of goofy. And so sometimes they'll have a clocking device on the other side that you can turn.
Host - Josh AndersonOh, no shit.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, yeah. And so on uh RockShock, um, their quick releases usually are clocked on the through axle itself, so you don't need any special parts. Okay. Uh which is nice.
Host - Josh AndersonThat's cool.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and so it just depends on the brand, but in most cases, a lot of companies will make both. Right. In some cases, they won't. So, like on some of the downhill forks and can't do it. Some some forks in general, they just don't make one.
Host - Josh AndersonSo, no reason why I shouldn't get one other than make sure I the clocking mechanism is good.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, you just want to make sure that it's gonna it's gonna tighten, you know. Yeah. Um, for instance, on Fox 36, most of the modern ones, they have a pinch bolt, uh, which a lot of people forget to tighten.
Host - Josh AndersonWhich um I forgot to loosen.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonIt stripped out the inside of my yeah.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. It's funny because on uh DVO that pinch bolt is facing up. So when you look there. On the Fox, it's like hidden underneath. Yeah, it's kind of tucked. So it looks cool, but you forget it's there. Yeah. And then what happens most often is people forget to tighten it and then it rattles apart and you lose the hardware. And you know that I mean, realistically, unless you just really get super sloppy and ride a long, long time without ever checking it. No, you need it because the the flex in the fork that that has an opening now.
Host - Josh AndersonThat's bad.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd if you flex that fork hard enough, you could possibly break that tab open. Yep. Um, so you definitely want the hardware, but it's not super catastrophic. You know, we we had some Marzokis back in the day that had quick releases down there, and when they fell open, the bottom would drop. Oh no. And your whole axle could drop right out of the fork.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd so you go to do a jump and then your front wheel falls off.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. I mean, again, you have to be sloppy and not paying attention to or really just be ignoring things to have that happen. But man, it was a little freaky to kind of have to flap your your axle in, you know. While you're riding? Yeah. So it was kind of like a double quick release so that you could pull your wheel out. That's right, I remember that. Yeah, it was kind of crazy, but the wheel would drop straight out the bottom.
Host - Josh AndersonSo easy for maintenance, but a little sketchy if you don't have to do that.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, not a great design for for uh what do we what do what do you want you want to call it? Uh idiot proof. You know, it's not idiot proof. Idiocracy. I gotta watch that movie again. Oh, that's awesome.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah. Okay, so uh final question on hubs. We have talked about this in the past, and so apologies if if everyone's heard this, but like I can't really remember. I know that RockShock's done something with their torque caps.
Host - Dane HigginsYes, yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd I don't have those.
Host - Dane HigginsNo.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd I'm running I'm running like all RockShock forks now.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo should I consider them?
Host - Dane HigginsUm so uh ideally what they do is create more surface area and a possible stiffer front end. Right. And so if you wanted a little degree of of stiffness, you just have to make sure your hub has that as an option.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, that you can actually buy torque caps for it. And I think most of the major ones you can.
Host - Dane HigginsI don't know if that's the case. Okay. Yeah, and and that's the tricky part because if the torque cap is actually made for your hub or not, and that's and that's really the key. And so um the amount that it makes a difference, especially on the more modern forks, which have really gotten super stiff chassis, I don't think is as critical as it used to be. So but I'm liking how they feel now, so like Yeah, but you do you they're compatible. The big thing that happens here, and we've talked about this, is we sell a fox fork replacing a rock shock, and the torque caps are on there, and that wheel won't fit into a fox.
Host - Josh AndersonSo then you have to change the hub caps. Yes. Exactly.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd that causes one more level of complication or cost or delay or what have you. And so um, so torque having your wheels with torque caps has drawbacks. So it has an advantage, but it has drawbacks.
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, next topic.
Tubeless Bead Seating In The Field
Host - Josh AndersonUh, and uh most of this, because this is my life right now, is coming from like experiences with the van.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd uh I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what my bike tool kit needs to be for the van. Yeah. I ended up buying like a professional tool roll from Pedros for like 700 bucks. It was like the least expensive option that I could find. Yeah. It had like everything, yeah, like like pretty much everything in my shop. And you weren't robbing your shop every every weekend. I don't want to rob my shop. I want it just to be in there so I can go and like it's in the van and it goes up there.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo it got me thinking about I've been messing around with a bunch of different pumps. I ended up buying like a foot pump from uh from Amazon for like 15 bucks, which was amazing. It was super small, it worked great, but the gauge didn't work for the shit. So I couldn't tell like what I was you know, what PSI I was putting in the tires, and we're pretty specific about that. So I was like, oh shit. So we sent that back. I end the pump I ended up getting was uh was the park tool just home mechanic pump. Yeah, yeah. It's it's kind of slim and and it and the gauge works great, it's big enough. My wife's going blind, she can't see anything, so she needs like a big gauge so she can read it. But it got me thinking about what if I gotta set like the bead on a tubeless tire while I'm in the field. And I I think in the past I would just use a CO2 cartridge, but that's like a um like once that's a one and done.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, right. Yeah, it's disposable.
Host - Josh AndersonSo what I ended up buying was this was this tool called an air shot, uh-huh. Which is like a it looks like a giant CO2 container that you just like pump up with your pump.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and you pressurize the tank.
Host - Josh AndersonYou pressurize the tank and then you hook that to the tire. And then it acts like a it acts like a giant CO2, right?
Host - Dane HigginsYep, yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd it was super, it was it was relatively inexpensive, pretty small. Also in the van, like everything's about footprint, like you know, everything's gotta fit, so small stuff. So I I bought that. But it got me thinking, like just in general, I don't think we've talked about or much talked about on this podcast, like seeding beadless or uh uh uh tubeless tubeless tires. Seeding the bead for tubeless tires. So like what are the different methods that you use? What do you guys use in the shop? What do you use at home? What do you use in the field?
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, that's a tricky one. So I most modern tubeless systems fit tighter. And also when I tape a rim, I'm aware of how tight the tire is fitting. If it's super loose, I'll I'll double up the tape. And I think we've talked before, if it's a really old rim that doesn't have good tolerance, I'll sometimes switch to like a gorilla um uh uh gorilla tape just because it takes up room and it closes up that tolerance so that the tire is between the rim and the tire itself. And so the smaller the gap you have, the more likely that the air that you put in will push it to the versus versus just escape from that hole. Yeah. And so sometimes if you've got a really sloppy setup, you're gonna just struggle, and you just need a lot of air compressor. Even here when we're doing them at the shop with an air compressor, we run into some that just are really a pain. Sometimes soaping them helps that. Sometimes you got three guys, you know, around a trash can trying to get it to work. And ultimately, sometimes we can. Um, sometimes you can get some weird tires when they're folded up, they create seams or bends in the beads. And so sometimes a trick is to put a tube in it and let it sit.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, to like help work that out over time.
Host - Dane HigginsIt'll kind of it can also sometimes pop the beads into place, and then if you only take one side off to take it.
Host - Josh AndersonIt's already out, then you've got one side still in the place.
Host - Dane HigginsSo there's little tricks, all kinds of different tricks. One of the things I think that works the best is the uh blaster pumps where they have an extra can that you can charge from the pump.
Host - Josh AndersonRight, and then it has a lever that just the air shot thing I got is like I just bought it, but it's not connected to my pump.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and that's good too. The other thing for like an RV or something is sometimes you can get a high output like little air compressor that's can go under in your frame underneath the car, you know, and you run a hose out and have it click in super pro. I'm sure it's not cheap, but that's kind of cool. A buddy of mine had one because he had airbags on his truck. Uh-huh. And so he had an air output where he could hook up an air hose for when he was uh riding and he could fill up his tires. So for four-wheeling, he could do it, but also he could put little things on it to work.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd I looked at like Viare makes some and there's a bunch of different brands. It's a it's a much bigger footprint than I wanted to take. Like it's just it takes up more space than I wanted to take up in the van. Yeah. So I didn't go that direction.
Host - Dane HigginsSo when I'm at home, I usually have pretty high quality tires and rims, and I'm pretty good at knowing how tight they are. And I have a floor pump at home, and I will just do it. Just oh but I I I almost have a heart attack when I do one. I have to take like an hour break after one tire because I'm so worn out because you have to go so fast to get a ton of air going so fast to get as much air going. But man, it is kind of cool to know that I didn't have to use a air compressor.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, it's like making fire to rocks.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, it's like, yeah. But man, I think I've almost passed out a couple times uh trying to do that. I have an air compressor at home that I'm currently rebuilding. It's kind of like a it's it's it's stupid. I'm spending way more money and time on it than just going to the store and buying one, but it's an old like 60s, like um what they call uh two-stage uh compressor. And man, I'm almost done with it. It's pretty cool to have a yeah, it's those things last forever, right? Yeah, I I it had C's pistons, so I pulled out the pistons and re bored them and did all this stuff, and it's it's so close. And I'm bending the tubing to go from one uh cylinder to the other, and that's leaking, and I have to fix that. But other than that, it's going. So and I'm kind of stoked. I had to do some welding, and I moved this system off of the little tiny tank that it was on onto a much bigger one. So it'll be my garage compressor. But uh my wife is like, How much money did you spend? I'm like four dollars. More well, more than a new air compressor would have cost, so but it's more the time. So uh so eventually I have an air compressor, but I've done it with the floor pump quite a few times. Uh there's some floor pumps you can get that are high volume and high pressure, and they have a switch. Yep. And then um CO2s, I have not tried the little mini pumps yet to see if they'll put out enough pressure. Yeah, I I don't feel like since you can regulate how fast it goes in.
Host - Josh AndersonI don't think they would.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Right now I think CO2 is everybody's go-to.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah.
Host - Dane HigginsUm, because the CO2s are fairly cheap, but I I don't actually use CO2 because I just don't like throwing stuff away like that. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah. I mean it it once you do it, uh you're throwing that piece of metal away basically.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I'll I'll use a pump all day long just I because I'm I don't know, I'm just a Luddite or something. I don't know.
Host - Josh AndersonSo well we've clearly established that. Yeah while we're on the topic of uh of air compressing and you know filling up your tires, there's a couple things that I use at home that are a little bit different. One's not different, the one I just want to plug something, but one one of the things that I bought, you know, I've got a set of like power tools at home, like drills and saws and stuff like that by Ryobi. Uh-huh. And they all use a common battery.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Right?
Host - Josh AndersonSame battery system. So I have like a couple batteries and I got all these different power tools, and I just charge that battery and works and everything.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonBut they also make a tire inflator that uses those batteries. And can you preset the pressure? No, but it's got a pressure gauge on it that you can see. So it's just like a pump, but it's electric and it's like handheld. It looks like a drill. Yeah. It's like the size of a drill.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonUm, and it works fucking fantastic. Yeah. And it was like 40 bucks or something. And I already had the um battery and charger. I already had the battery and charger. Now it's got a shrader valve um end on it. That's it. I guess I could cut it and shut swap it out. I never have.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonBut I do use the little Schrader to Presta adapter thing that you screw on.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonBut it works fantastic for um filling up tires. So if you already have like a Ryobi and there's a couple other ones, systems out there, you got the batteries. You might be able to buy a cheap, like, you know, this handheld drill tire inflator thing, and it works awesome.
Host - Dane HigginsSome of them you can preset the pressure, which I think I'd like like to try out.
Host - Josh AndersonThat would be super cool. This one, this one you can't. Maybe it's probably it's probably more expensive.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonThe other thing I have that I just want to shout out, and this is like a luxury item, I think. But I do have a pancake air compressor in the garage.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonJust a little, I think it's Craftsman or DeWalt or something like that. You know, it may be $150. And I use it for everything, including filling up our tires. But I eventually um broke down and bought the Park Tools INF-2, which is their little handheld, you know, inflator. Uh, and Jesus is that thing amazing. Yeah, it is so amazing.
Host - Dane HigginsI I we break them constantly. Oh no! Now keep in mind we're working on so many more bikes. Yeah. Um so do you have the silka one or something? Like we have you guys No, we've gone to the EVT. EVT, okay. Is a company that's like a bunch of guys that are in a machine shop that work on bikes, and they just started building tools out of like stuff that you could get around your machine shop, like angle iron and all kinds of stuff, but they do such a good job and they use like bearings and tight tolerances, and uh they do a good job. Uh, it's not cheap. However, I did when you sent me this list, I I knew that you liked that because you're a park guy. I am um and I I like park stuff, but this particular inflator has failed quite a bit. For you guys.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, so I've had good experience, but you are using it thousand times more than me.
Host - Dane HigginsSo and we we drop it. It's heavy. Yeah. Uh we drop it. I don't ever drop mine. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonI take care of my tools.
Host - Dane HigginsIt's well, I mean I'd love to say that, but six mechanics. I'm just messing with you. Um, but uh so the EVTs have been I mean, the EVTs are crazy because they look like you just went to ACE and put a bunch of NPT pipes together and just made it. But it works great. But it works great, it's durable.
Host - Josh AndersonWhat's the like what's the price difference? So the the park one's like 150 bucks.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, it's like twenty bucks more for the EVT. Oh Jesus, so there you go. And you can get the EVT in a bunch of different configurations. Uh they even have a crazy one where you can pipe it directly into your like if you if you run iron pipe from your compressor to your workshop, you can they have a head that's got two hoses that come off, one's presta and one's shrader. Oh, cool. And so that one was way more pricey, and I I don't like it. I like the other ones where it's go on the quick attach. Yeah. Uh it'll work on both. Yeah, and then one is uh sometimes they have a gauge, sometimes they don't. It just depends on which configuration you buy. So they got a bunch of different versions. And their uh Presta is rebuildable. I think they're using the silica internals, but uh I only know that or think that because they look like the silica. Uh and silica makes some of the best presta um, I guess presta inflators, you know, that just fit right on a presta and inflate. So uh yeah, it's a good tool. Um just it's super simple and way more durable. We drop that thing all the time too, and it doesn't ever break.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay. So so you said it was EVT? EVT. Echo Victor Tango.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Okay. EVT tools. They make a work stand that I want, but it's just so expensive.
Host - Josh AndersonWell, here's what I'm gonna do. I want to keep using my park until it breaks. Yeah. And then I'll probably replace it with an EVT.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and I'll show you ours here so you can see. They the genuinely the the biggest thing with EVT is when you look at it, you're like, I could put this together. It looks industrial. Well, I could I could put this together at ACE, you know? Yeah. And uh I can tell you that they have more thought and more precision and use better stuff than you probably are getting at Home Depot, but it looks the same.
Host - Josh AndersonSo don't yeah, don't be fooled by I don't give a shit what my stuff works looks like as long as it works well.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, they're their um their bearings and action on their workstands are super nice and really smooth and like uh so much better than most things that I've used. But they look like they just took angle iron and threw a piece of rubber on it, like to hold your bike, you know. Like it's kind of crazy.
Host - Josh AndersonSo So um next topic. I
Chain Waxing And Lube Mixing Mistakes
Host - Josh Andersonmade a critical error and I've got my fleet pretty about 80% transitioned over to wax. And typically I start with the silk o wax hot wax for the first waxing of the chain. I'm talking about what chain wa wax chain wax chains now.
Host - Dane HigginsNot bikini.
Host - Josh AndersonNot bikini. Uh haven't done that, but probably should.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Gotta clean that up. Gotta clean that up. It's getting manscaping.
Host - Josh AndersonIt's getting a little rough. Um Jesus man.
Host - Dane HigginsNow people are picturing me.
Host - Josh AndersonI know, I know. Please don't. Please don't. I'm gonna get I'm gonna start getting bear emails. Oh god. All right, all right, all right. We've gone down a way. Let's get off this. Let's get off this. But uh I so so I thought I pretty much had remembered exactly which bikes were waxed and which bikes were not. And so I I and then I use um squirt after the first hot wax. Um and so I put squirt on a bike that did not was not waxed.
Host - Dane HigginsOkay.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd the combination of whatever lube that I was using, which was Purple Extreme, uh-huh, and that squirt created just a gunky mess. Junk, yeah, like just a hot mess. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, oh, for Christ's sake. So I I you know cleaned off the chain the best I could, um, and I was like, oh man, I want to convert this bike. Do I need to throw the chain away? The chain was still had life left in it, and it met like we've talked about before, it was matched up to the cassette, so I didn't want to go through all that shit. So um long story short, I ended up putting a new chain on it.
Host - Dane HigginsOkay.
Host - Josh AndersonBut here's my question Is converting to wax on a chain that wasn't waxed initially just a loss cause, or can you actually do it?
Host - Dane HigginsI so I don't wax. I I use squirt, but I don't wax. Um everybody that I know though, they didn't go buy new chains. Okay. So I think you just have to degrease properly. Yeah. And um a lot of the companies will have different ways of doing that. Yeah I mean one of my friends is like, yeah, I put it in in a in like a acetone or or um gas. You know, and just get it like leave it overnight, and then I come and get it, and then I clean it off a few times. And um, the biggest thing is the contamination of your wax.
Host - Josh AndersonIt sounds like Justin, is it? Justin that does the gasoline.
Host - Dane HigginsMaybe. Um, Justin. But um, but like the contaminating your your wax pot is the biggest fear. So whatever you do to clean your chain, you want to get it as clean as possible so that when you're dipping it, you're not introducing a bunch of crap into your wax pot.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, because then you gotta then you gotta in cleaning out the wax pot, it's a pin yes.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, not only cleaning it out, but wasting that wax. Like you don't want to have dirty wax going onto your chain that defeat defeats the purpose. Yeah, the key is to get underneath the rollers and get all the gunk out. You know, I've I've had a I've pulled a parts washer chain out and then uh which is where we're kind of washing the surface, and then I'll use like with this stuff called suspension clean, which is like a uh like a at it's like brake cleaner, except it's it's a lot cleaner and um but it evaporates. So it's a High pressure nozzle solution like dissolve uh solvent that comes out, it'll blast off dirt, but then it'll evaporate so it doesn't leave residue. And I've done that on a what I thought was a clean chain, and like a bunch of stuff comes out of the rollers, you know, and so you just got to make sure you get them clean. The the you know, if you dip a dirty chain, you're just gonna have dirty wax, and so you may go through your wax faster, or it may not be as clean as you hoped. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of trial and error, it's just how much you wanna learn and follow directions. You know, the temperature of the wax is a big deal, is a big deal.
Host - Josh AndersonI actually went and bought the Silco wax machine because I was using like a garage store like yeah, like a like garage sale crock pat. Yeah, and the my temperatures were all over the place. Yeah, and it's definitely made a big difference.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I think when you're learning, go with the the first one and try it out and figure it all out because you're gonna screw up and make all those mistakes. And then when you're like, yeah, I I like this. I'm I'm this is okay. I'm gonna put a I'm this pain in the butt, you know.
Host - Josh AndersonWhich it is a pain in the butt.
Host - Dane HigginsIt is um is worth it to me and I enjoy it, and then you spend the money, you know.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, I think I did some like back of the napkin math, and I think it's about it's it's about half the time over the life of the chain.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonIf you actually do the wax up front. Because it's you're just saving time. Yeah. You know, and and in the desert where it's dry and dusty. Yeah. Like I haven't experimented with wax where it's wet. Yeah. But here where it's dry and dusty, oh my god. It's great. Yeah, it's fantastic.
Host - Dane HigginsI've been on wax type lubes for so long that I've forgotten how gunky stuff can get. You know, and then there was a couple brands of wax um that that were would get gunky, and those turned people off of using wax, so they would stop using it, because other like it's too gunky, it it makes this you know, you see these videos where there's like cakes of it on there, and you take a scribe and tier pulley and like chunks of this crap is coming off. Um, in most cases, that is usually mixing uh wax with a wet that causes that. And then what happens is you get like a clay instead of a wax. And so that it's really important that you don't mix. And then there was a couple brands where the particulate wax was just too thick and it would clump, and the chemistry of what got to be on, yeah. So um we talk about squirt all the time, mainly because they've figured out a good chemistry to get the wax into the chain, and then that transfer solution comes off without being clunk clumpy.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, and just so for our listeners who understand what Dane's talking about, like with the squirt, it's a white liquid.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd you put that white liquid on your chain, and then over time, what you call the transfer fluid actually evaporates off, and what stays is the wax.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, or the wax type material material. Yeah, it's not always straight up paraffin. And that's the other thing is like uh sometimes like silica and other companies that make a dipping wax, it's not a straight up paraffin. Like, you know, I see a lot of people they're like, yeah, I just go to the hobby shop and I get or I melted a candle or what you know. Like you're gonna get some results, but it's not the same thing.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd so when we talked about this on a previous episode, the person that we named earlier wrote me and said, No, no, no, you just need to get this and this and melt them together and it's perfect. You don't need to spend all that.
Host - Dane HigginsWell, and and it will work, you know. Yeah. But again, if if you're gonna go to all that time and effort to get uh what you feel is better, yeah, I skimping on that doesn't make any sense. If you if you're worried about money, just use squirt, you know. Use squirt. Yeah, and don't mix your lubes. It works great. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, don't mix your lubes. Yeah. That's a less a life lesson.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. Yeah. In fact, uh, when you go to a bike shop, uh tr let try and let them know. A good a good mechanic should be feeling the chain and kind of get an idea of what you have on there. Yeah. But honestly, bike shops get busy, they don't always know. Sometimes the they're new, sometimes they put what they like on, and they don't know that mixing different types of lubes can have adverse effects. So if you are putting a lot of time and effort into your chain, let the bike shop know so that they don't mess up your time and effort.
Host - Josh AndersonI'll tell you, man, you know, in all aspects of your life, don't mix the lube is a good like if you've ever mixed a silicone with a water-based lube, it doesn't work out well. No. Yeah.
Spoke Ping Sounds And Wheel Tension
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, I got a bike with pinging spokes. Ding ding ding ding ding.
Host - Dane HigginsI mean, it's not a constant thing.
Host - Josh AndersonIt just not a constant thing, it just happens uh periodically. Yeah. I went through and I like checked the to make sure I didn't have any loose spokes, so I kind of go around both sides of the wheel because you got spokes coming out. Yeah. Both sides. And I just kind of with my fingers just test to make sure I don't have one loose. Every once in a while over my career of mountain biking, I've found loose spokes, and that was the cause of it. Should I be concerned?
Host - Dane HigginsSo um there's probably different versions of what you're maybe talking about. The most common is when you pick up your bike from the bike shop and you go ride it, and right away it's like ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, you know. And that is usually After you trued it? Yeah. Usually when the wheel got true, um, you can get as you're turning the nipple, it can sometimes twist the spoke and kind of preload the spoke.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd that's just the spoke returning to its natural state.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and and the nipple against the rim do has too much friction for that spoke to return. And then when you roll over it, it loosens the nipple just for a split second and it returns. It basically loosen lets it spin back to where it's naturally supposed to be.
Host - Josh AndersonSo sometimes once that resettles, it should stop making that noise.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, that should reset. If you have a constant ping, you may have one, you know, one or two spokes that aren't the right tension. So again, as you're rolling over them, they are kind of either you know, basically lifting off of the rim too much and making a noise. Um so if it's recurring, get it checked out. Yeah, if you hear it once in a while, it should be spoke tension. If it's right after it was serviced, don't panic. Like when I test ride a bike after we do a tune-up and we always check the wheels, I always hear that. And then I have a habit of I lean the bike over, you know, and and let it roll, you know, a good twenty yards, and then lean it over the other way and let it yard and it's flexing the wheels. And then I will go put the bike in the stand and check the true again to make sure that those unraveling spokes that are making those noise didn't send it back out of true. Didn't make it out of true. Yeah. Sometimes it's just a tiny like fraction of a millimeter that they move and they just make the noise.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah. Okay. So pinging spokes, here you go. Okay. And again, this is all that is so funny, all this stuff is like related.
Host - Dane HigginsI got one for you. Did you know that some people try and check spoke tension by flicking and pinging the spokes? Like just to get the sound? Yeah, and they want to match the sound all the way around. And I don't I'm not a wheel builder. I don't know if I think that's the best way to go. Uh if you have perfect pitch, maybe? Uh yeah. I guess I I don't have confidence that I would know the difference between two. But yeah, there's wheel builders out there that will use like pinging the spokes as their idea of whether they're getting it to the right tension all the way around. Because even tension on your wheels is more important than a straight wheel. So so when you're dealing with um a straight-up, can you explain why? Well, I understand, but explain for all of us first. And the caveat is on aluminum. So on carbon, it's different because carbon doesn't bend and stay bent. But on aluminum, when the aluminum actually bends, it can move over and then you have to over tension to bring it straight again.
Host - Josh AndersonRight.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd sometimes if you do that too much, you can have a weaker wheel because you're putting way too much tension in one area of the wheel and not enough in another. Yeah. And so, but you're trying to make it straight. And so sometimes you can be weakening the wheel by making it too straight if it's if it's had a lot of trauma.
Host - Josh AndersonSo I just had to stand up because my butt hurts.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, you got that metal bench.
Host - Josh AndersonI'm sitting on the metal bench, no pad. Uh you'd think that I had my own built-in padding here, that would be enough, but apparently not.
Pedal Torque Feel And Washer Rules
Host - Josh AndersonAll right. Um, I've been taking pedals off more frequently because uh and in our configuration I have to take at least one pedal off.
Host - Dane HigginsDid you match your pedals?
Host - Josh AndersonDid I match my pedals?
Host - Dane HigginsSo uh when I packed up to do our trip last year with four bikes in the van, and we had to pack them inside the van, and I had to take the pedals off each time I pulled them, put them in and took a you know.
Host - Josh AndersonYou made sure they all had an eight or all had a six millimeter.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I made sure they all had six mils uh so that I wasn't flipping, you know, having like three different tools.
Host - Josh AndersonSo back to the uh park tools that you know I love. I ended up picking up actually from your shop, yeah. You had a six millimeter and an eight millimeter pedal wrench. Yeah, those are nice. That was like they were super cheap, too. They were like eight bucks a piece or something.
Host - Dane HigginsNobody ever wants to splurge on them, but you use them so much, especially if you travel.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, so I use them all the time now, and that changed like that. Literally took minutes out of my every single time I load the nunload the bikes. It was fantastic.
Host - Dane HigginsSo you're less likely to knuckle your your knuckles when you're trying to take them off.
Host - Josh AndersonSo no, I did not match the pedals. And I have to remember, and now I'm starting to remember each one. Yeah. I will tell you though, those, um, so I've been riding my big bike, my gorilla, a lot. Yeah. And I've got those Saint pedals that you gifted me. Thank you so much. Yeah. Holy shit. They're nice. I love those Saint flat pedals. That is my favorite. I mean, I think that's what I'll buy for every bike once my pedals wear out. It is fantastic. Well, I guess I need to see like longevity how long they last. I mean, they're Shimano.
Host - Dane HigginsThey're gonna last.
Host - Josh AndersonSo they should last for a long time.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd if they don't, they're rebuildable. They're rebuildable. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo, man, if you're looking for new flat pedals, now I don't know, do they have different sizes? Do you know? Because those are pretty big and my feet are big, so it works well for me. I don't think so.
Host - Dane HigginsUh there's an XT version that's got a little less features. Okay. So that may be a little smaller.
Host - Josh AndersonSo the Saint ones, wow. I mean, they're big platforms. Yeah. So if you ride a big platform pedal, you should check it out. It is uh wow. Really and they're not that heavy.
Host - Dane HigginsNo.
Host - Josh AndersonUm I'm really digging those. But um, here's my question. Uh I'm taking the pedals off a lot, putting them back on a lot. I'm not torquing them.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonI just kind of have this feel that feels good to me. Yep. And I've lost some of the pedal washers. Okay. So is it okay that I'm not torquing them? And then do I should I be using pedal washers?
Host - Dane HigginsUm, so in most cases, the torque uh is just to make sure that you put them on tight enough and they don't come off while you're riding. Yeah. Um, if you put them on too tight, or maybe to keep you from putting them on too tight, so too many people put them on a little too tight. Yeah. Uh they're designed that as the the the bearings are being the friction in the bearings is gonna they're designed to kind of tighten. That's why one is reverse thread. Yep. Uh so that when you're pedaling, they don't loosen they're supposed to self-tighten. They don't always do that, and sometimes they can fall off. Uh so um you just want to put them on a certain uh degree, yeah, you know, uh, past when they stop, yeah. Just so that they're not coming off. You don't want to make them so they seize, like yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo I'm about an eighth of a turn from when it stops. Yeah.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd that feels about right to me.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I can't remember which degree or how much, but um we do it by feel, but we always usually have a little uh grease on it. You don't have to grease it every time, but you just want to make sure. Make sure that it's greased up by that. They're not um corroding.
Host - Josh AndersonYep.
Host - Dane HigginsUm and then did you ask about pedal washers?
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, like I've lost a couple just you know in the transfer process.
Host - Dane HigginsSo um some companies want you to use pedal washers. Uh some companies don't care, and some companies don't want you to use them. Uh I don't know if yeah, so in some circumstances you may not use them. So um the rule of thumb is if the manufacturer has supplied them with them, you probably should use them. Uh and that's just because if something were to happen, you may avoid the warranty if you're not using them. I've I've had companies ask where they're pedal washers, if you know.
Host - Josh AndersonSo if I go through the eight different pedals I have in the fleet, can you tell me specifically which it's not the pedal, it's the crank.
Host - Dane HigginsOh, yeah. Sorry. Sorry, I should preface that. The pedal washers would come with the crank. So it's the crank brand. Okay, so which brands are cranks? Uh Shimano Shram. Shran not Shimano. Uh Shram supplies them. I want to say E13. I'm not sure about Praxis. And Shimano does not? No. Um, and so um this is gonna be more generalized, so it's not specific to every brand, but in most cases, what the the manufacturer wants is for that pedal to sit flush without any raised or sharp edges, uh, and so that you have a good surface for that pedal to connection. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd the washer provides a way to make up any deviations in the system.
Host - Dane HigginsUh if you if your um pedal happens to have wrench flats that are exposed to the crank, they can cause a stress riser and you can get a stripped-out crank. And uh, if you guys don't know what that means by me saying, I'll I'll give you a visual. That means when you're putting the pedal on, you're using like a 15mm wrench, and as the pedal's going in, two sides of the pedal are flat. And when that flat side goes up against the the crank, you can have more leverage in that area and an uneven surface and not enough support, so you should always use a pedal washer with that type of pedal. Most high-end pedals don't have that. Shimano pedals, um, we're shouting out a lot to Shimano, but uh their pedals have good flanges, so they're usually pretty safe in most cases. And then other brands, HT and um who else, you know, one-up and Wolftooth, and you just gotta look at the flange. And then if the company that makes the crank supplies it with a washer, you gotta use one. The one of the reasons that is, is they may have made the material, the crank arm, out of a material that is a little easily marred. And so they want the washer to prevent that.
Host - Josh AndersonTo protect the actual crank.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and so it'll also keep it from from having issues.
Host - Josh AndersonSo it was a good thing I went to wheels uh manufacturing and bought a lot of pedal spacer or pedal pedal washers.
Host - Dane HigginsIf you do that, because some pedal washers have a bigger diameter than others. Ah, here we go. Here we go. Use your you know, good logic when you put that pedal washer up against that little recess that's usually on the crank.
Host - Josh AndersonIs it actually doing what it's supposed to be?
Host - Dane HigginsIf it if it's way bigger than that recess and it's gonna help you bend and stuff, that's not good, you know. And so you've got to use a little bit of common sense when you're doing it. Oh, for Christ's sakes. The hardest ones are when you're trying to use those pedal washers and you've got the little plastic boots on carbon cranks. A lot of carbon cranks want pedal washers, by the way. So if you have carbon cranks, there's a good chance you should be using pedal washers.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay.
Host - Dane HigginsUm, so yeah, that's the complicated answer to that.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, that's I didn't think pedal washers was gonna be a complicated question.
Host - Dane HigginsI can tell you that um I I forget pedal washers all the time. I don't ever put pedals on my bikes that have those wrench flats. Uh now, there's a difference when I say wrench flats versus a pedal with a good collar on it, but it has wrench flats. Okay, so I'm hoping people can kind of visualize what I'm talking about.
Host - Josh AndersonWell, you've lost half the audience at this point.
Host - Dane HigginsSo the the threads as they go into the pedal, you know, basically, if the surface that go butts up against the crank arm is a nice disc shape, you know, and doesn't have the wrench flats in that part, but but you've got 15 millimeter wrench flats on it, you're still okay because that disc is I know what you're talking about.
Host - Josh AndersonI'm not sure anyone else does. I'm following you. Maybe there's like three or three or four people more.
Host - Dane HigginsHard one, hard one to visualize. Most cases, if you go to Walmart and look at the flat pedals there and look at the pedals, the wrench flats go all the way to the crank arm. Yeah. And that means they're gonna they're gonna have more leverage to mar up or mess up that crank.
Host - Josh AndersonYep. So the washer would protect that.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, it's usually cheap, cheap pedals that are like that.
Host - Josh AndersonCheap pedals need washers. All right. Uh thank you. That was fantastic. Next topic here uh derail your pulley wheels.
Host - Dane HigginsI want to skip that. Okay, let's skip it. Because we're short on time, and I had a lot of fun um with your next one, which is actually two.
Host - Josh AndersonSo I'll skip, I'll skip a couple.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, so the tools. Okay, let's get to the tools.
The Bike Tools Worth Paying For
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, so you asked what So I asked, um, and if you want, maybe this be our last topic.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I'm gonna change what you asked, but what did you ask?
Host - Josh AndersonWhat I asked was what are the three tools.
Host - Dane HigginsThat are worth what are the three expensive tools.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, what are the three three shop tools or three bike tools that you think are actu absolutely worth their cost high cost. Yeah, okay.
Host - Dane HigginsI'm gonna change that. Uh so the guys and I were talking, and it was who are the guys in this case? Uh so Daniel, Ben, uh Tony and I yeah, yeah. And um I I kind of presented to them, here's how I presented it. What tool that you can't buy at like a Home Depot, okay, or a hardware store. Right. So not Allen wrenches, not you know, boxins, you know, things like that. Yep. Um, not screwdrivers, things like that. Uh what tool that you can't buy at a big box, that's a real bike tool, that you wouldn't have in your seat pouch or in your camelback, so not tire lever, you know, not chainbreaker, you know, things like that, would you carry? Or do you think is is the most important. What are the three most important things?
Host - Josh AndersonSo these are four very uh experienced mechanics and bike shop professionals.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah. And I got pretty much a ton of different answers. Wow, from all of them. Yeah. Like there was no three definite. Wow. Yeah. Because once you take Allen wrenches out, right, that's a big necessity. Yep. Um, so I I can tell you that I was surprised. Um So do you have all 12 answers? Well, it's funny because if you look at one of the guys at the shop, he is doing a lot of intakes on bikes, helping people evaluate what the bike needs and stuff. And so that's So he's the triage dude. That's Ben. And so his two were more oriented towards that. So he said um pulley height tool, which is I don't even know what that is. Well, it's because you ride Shimano. Uh on Shram, you have to set the pulley height correctly or it won't shift correctly. Which a lot of people that complain about shifting with Shram systems, especially 12 speed, or um Is that the same as a B limit screw? It's kind of like a B height, but uh Shimano calls it something different. B tension. Okay. Uh pulley height is what Shram calls it. And if your pulley height is wrong, your pulleys won't be in the right place to move the chain around the cassette properly. So, but they effectively are kind of doing the same thing. So um the uh Shram has developed this little plastic thing that you stick on there that makes it really easy to tell if you're off. Yeah, to and and it's you you will not find that anywhere but a bike shop, you know. And so it's a weird tool that you would never find anywhere else.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, so if you're running Shram.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd sure enough, I have one in my my travel toolbox, you know. Okay. So um and then he also said um chain checker, which again, if you're evaluating whether a bike needs service, checking the length of the chain is makes a big deal. So I thought I thought that was cool. Um, and then Daniel had one that I was I liked that I didn't have, and his is very practical. I definitely would carry this in my camper or something, or on a racetruck or something like that. Yeah. Um a cassette tool and whip, you know. Those are really specific, you know, to get your cassette off. Yeah. If you had to change it or if you're switching wheels or something.
Host - Josh AndersonSo you have a chain whip that holds the cassette stable, and then you have a tool. A tool that actually fits in and can you actually loosen or tighten the cassette? Yeah, to attach it.
Host - Dane HigginsYep, exactly. And so, and then he brought up torque wrench. Again, he's one of our main mechanics, so he's constantly working on bikes all the time, so he's always making sure things are torqued properly.
Host - Josh AndersonDid he specify what range of torque wrench?
Host - Dane HigginsNo, no, he did say uh torque wrench or clickers. And so clickers are preset. Preset torques. Yeah, and so we have like a four, a five, and a six that we have on the benches just for because they're easy.
Host - Josh AndersonPark makes one that does four, five, and six.
Host - Dane HigginsWell, so then we also have adjustable. Yeah. So but if you're doing it real quick, having those three presets are not.
Host - Josh AndersonThat's fantastic.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd each one of those presets, they're park also, uh, have bits. Yep. So different size bits, so three bits that you can put in. Right now. So that's cool. Um, and so then um uh Daniel also brought up a bleed kit, which is true. I I bring a bleed kit with me, usually just for my bike. So if I run Shimano, I'll have a Shimano bleed kit. If I run Shram, I'll have a Sham bleed kit. So so that if I need to change pads or if I'm you know, changing altitude changes what air is in the system and it can affect it, and you may notice it more at altitude. And so I can use my bleed kit and kind of fine-tune my brakes fast.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd your bleed kit needs to be needs to match the actual brakes on that bike. Yeah. Which sucks for me when you've got four different types of brakes. Yeah. So I have to have four unique different bleed kits.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I I have the same issue, but I'm keep pushing all my brakes to one brand, but then I'll get a new bike and it'll have new stuff, and I want to try the new stuff. So uh and then the big thing that none of them said that as a team mechanic, which I was, uh I always had, and uh I would Never go, you know, without is what's called a DAG tool, a del derailleur alignment gauge.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah, you told me to buy that.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonNow here's And I haven't used I've used it one time since you told me to buy it.
Host - Dane HigginsSo here's the crazy thing. Um now with these direct mount derailers, don't need it as well. You don't use it. Because you're not aligning the derail your hanger. You can't actually use it. So it doesn't work with those.
Host - Josh AndersonSo most of the direct mount derailiers don't have derail your hangers, so there's nothing to align.
Host - Dane HigginsNow but if you're running Shimano uh or some of the older systems, like a SRAM, you know, 12 speed that's not or XO or whatever, uh you you need it. And that as a team mechanic was the number one thing that you would check first whenever there was shifting problems.
Host - Josh AndersonSo check the drill your hanger.
Host - Dane HigginsThe hangers always. Like it was that was one of my main tools. So those tools, it was really interesting to have the different personalities had different types of tools that they would rely on.
Host - Josh AndersonSo you gave me some interesting answers to a question I didn't ask.
Host - Dane HigginsI know, I know. Well your your question was like so. Then we did talk about like Expensive. What is the most expensive and useless tool in our shop?
Host - Josh AndersonOh, so now you're at now you're answering the opposite of the question that I asked.
Host - Dane HigginsExactly. And so um one of the things because we do a lot of carbon fiber bikes, so this will change depending on the bike shop and who they are. Yeah. You know, if you're a a vintage bike shop, this is absolutely not the case. But here facing and chasing tools are not. Yeah. And they're very expensive. And so those are tools that we don't need. I know a couple shops in town, I know the owners went out and they got excited when they built their bike shops and they went and bought all those tools, and they just sit there doing nothing.
Host - Josh AndersonYou use them like once a year.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, and not even, you know, and then you have other shops in town that are working on, you know, for for the most part, a lot of garbage bikes, and they really need those tools because the bikes came in without, you know, having it done. A really common uh bike, and I hate to call them out on it, but like salsa or surly uh often would come in with paint uh either in the threads or on the face of something on their aluminum bikes, and we would have to chase and face those. And they're great quality, but they just needed a little bit of prep that wasn't done. Yeah, wasn't done otherwise.
Host - Josh AndersonWhat about all that bearing pulling stuff and pressing stuff? Those are those are are expensive.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, we use those a lot here. You do use them. Yeah, and putting in bearings properly, it's worth the money. It's worth the money. Yeah. Um crank pullers is a tool that we were looking at the bench and we're like, what tool don't we hardly ever use in this shop? Again, yeah, depends on the shop, but in in a high-end shop does a lot of carbon fiber bikes and modern stuff. We don't hardly ever use crank pullers because all anymore, because they they don't they're not they don't come that way. They're self-pulling, yeah. Like they they pull themselves, and so uh square tapered, if anyone knows what that is, that's the old style bottom bracket. Compression fit. Square tapered uh crank puller is like I mean, it's like that thing gets touched maybe once a year.
Host - Josh AndersonSo when someone brings in a bike from like 2004.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, yeah, and we still have those. I mean, we got a bunch hanging on the wall in here. So um, but yeah, it was kind of interesting to hear the tools we never use. Oh, uh tool that I said that uh I would have with me is um a housing cutter. Uh so the park uh housing cutter. Yep. And you can use it for cables too. Uh I don't say cable cutter because they do make cable only cutters and they won't cut housing. Uh and so a k uh park housing cutter, uh, that's a really important tool to have. If you're putting housing on a bike trying to cut housing without that, it's a pain in the ass. Yeah, you need like a uh yeah, it doesn't work unless you have like a cutoff saw, you know, would maybe work. Right, right, right. Um, but yeah, you need that tool.
Host - Josh AndersonAll right, man. Well, a couple that I missed. I don't think that we need to. Um we'll save the bar end one for another day.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah, I I'm ordering those, so we'll talk about when they come in.
Host - Josh AndersonOkay, yeah, we'll we'll talk about when they come in.
Host - Dane HigginsYeah.
Host - Josh AndersonMaybe one more question that we didn't get to.
Host - Dane HigginsOkay.
E-Bike Internal Routing Reality Check
Host - Josh AndersonUh internal cable routing uh on an e-bike. Yeah. If you need to replace it or for like you're adding a dropper or something. Is it a is that a DIY job or is that a you should probably take it to a damn bike shop because they're gonna have to pull that whole the motor out and all kinds of crazies.
Host - Dane HigginsMotor and the battery, and in a lot of cases there's a wiring um rack built into the like a harness that it slides through. Harness is kind of a weird word. You you ever go into a building and they got that rack above you that's got all the wires in it, the tray kind of deal. It's kind of like that. And the problem is a lot of times you can't get cables back and forth through them easily. Um I was just doing my was it my amp? Yeah, I was just doing my pivot amp. And it's got one, and I didn't read the instructions because I'm Dane. Because I'm an idiot. And so I pulled the brakes off of that bike, and uh usually we will run a runner, which means when we're pulling internal cables out on any bike, we'll attach another cable or housing to it.
Host - Josh AndersonSo that you have the housing, yeah, the front empty housing too.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd then we'll run that through so that it's a placeholder and it makes it easier to get in and out. And so I was doing that and it got tight and got hung up in there. I was selling the brakes off the bike, so I had to pull them out anyway. So I just pulled them out and I was like, well, I'll deal with this later.
Host - Josh AndersonUh oh. And then later came.
Host - Dane HigginsLater came, and now I had to put that through without a runner and did I take the motor and the battery out? Motor and battery had to come out, and then that cage or harness or whatever you want to call, I didn't realize that it's being held up there tight, and that's why it wouldn't run very well. Right. And had I read the instructions, I would have known there's a couple bolts that I can loosen, and that process would have been probably to where I didn't have to pull that out. But a lot of bikes, you gotta pull that stuff out to really get stuff around. They're getting better, but for the most part, e-bikes, they've it it's it's a tough thing. So um in the shop, we whenever we have to pull a motor for an e-bike, and especially if they don't have good routing and we know that it's gonna be a nightmare, we will almost beg, pe plead, and just try and talk the customer into doing cables and housing on their rear um derailleur because that's the time to do it. If I got your battery out, let me change that. Like don't don't skimp out, you know. Let me put the new cables and housing in there. Because once that motor goes back in, if you need to run a new housing because your shifting is not that great, now you may have to pull the motor again, which can get it. Sucks balls. Yeah, yeah. So so yeah, it's kind of a kind of a d DYI is not that great. So a lot of people will tackle it because they're at that level. Yeah. But man, you can get into all the.
Host - Josh AndersonI mean, it's hard enough to do internal cable stuff with acoustic pedal bikes. Yeah. Even that's complicated. Yeah. I've got like the park like the leader. It's got a whole bunch of connectors and stuff, and that thing's fantastic by the way. Yeah, I've got all that stuff, and that stuff works great. Um, but you can't do that. You can't use that stuff with the e-bike.
Host - Dane HigginsIt's really yeah, there's some of them, and then some of them are really hard to know what the heck you're supposed to do. Uh we've had some where the customers that that those two um bolts, I guess, that loosen up that that cage on the pivot are similar to the amflows, but people have taken them apart without knowing that, and then they don't have the battery out when they do it, and then basically that harness drops inside the frame.
Host - Josh AndersonOh no.
Host - Dane HigginsBecause they were trying to figure out how to put a water bottle on, you know, and they didn't read the bolt where it says do not disassemble or or you know anything. Right, right. And uh and so now they've got a big job just because they were trying to put a water bottle cage on. Oh Jesus and it's it's a pain because that once that thing slides down, now you gotta pull the motor and the battery. Now you gotta get your hand to get up in there to realign everything, which is not a fun thing, and then get all the cables into their slots properly and then reattach.
Host - Josh AndersonIt's dude, the e-bikes are so fun, but damn are they such a pain in the ass.
Host - Dane HigginsSo like some some companies are smart enough to make internal tubes that you just slide through shove that thing through.
Host - Josh AndersonYeah.
Host - Dane HigginsAnd I gotta tell you, on a non-e-bike, I don't like them because they add a lot of weight. Uh I mean I like them as a mechanic because I love to do that because it's so nice and clean. But they add a lot of weight and they can affect the stiffness and they can affect the ride. Um, but they're awesome as a mechanic. You just go and it pops out the other end and it's no big deal. It's super easy. On an e-bike, I think that should be like standard. It should just be how it is, because uh at that point the weight's not an issue. And man, changing, you know, if you're if you're not running a wireless drivetrain and you're running cables on it, which a lot of people just want those, you've got to change that stuff. And man, if you have to pull the motor to do that, it's a it's a big job.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd there's a lot of I mean, how many hours did you guys quote for a motor?
Host - Dane HigginsUh we don't hours are tough because it depends on the mechanic.
Host - Josh AndersonAnd if they're so you don't have like a standard for the motors.
Host - Dane HigginsLike when I did my amp, it took me a lot longer because I was learning as I was going. The next one I do, I'll do in half the time. Yeah. Um, but if I do a Rocky Mountain like yours, I know where all those nuts and bolts are. I know the little tricks. Yep. You know? And so um, so yeah, I have to do like we're a trek dealer and they do TQ. I haven't done one yet. So I'll have to learn on the first one that I do and figure out how long it's gonna take. So yeah, it just depends on the system.
Final Takeaways And How To Support
Host - Josh AndersonSo all right, bro. Well, I would like to thank you for addressing every element of except for a couple of my eclectic lists that I've been capturing over the last couple months.
Host - Dane HigginsNow you gotta compile another list.
Host - Josh AndersonNow I gotta compile another list, which I'm sure I will. I've got a bunch of bike jobs to do. Uh my maintenance log is getting a little bit unbearable, so I need to start tackling it. Uh yeah. Yeah. Gorilla's in pretty good shape right now, but I'll I'll double check it. I've been riding a lot of bolts. Check all my bolts. Yeah. All right, man. You got any final listeners? You got any final thoughts for our listeners?
Host - Dane HigginsThat's that's it, man. I I mean, I hope when you work on your bike you have a blast, but if you get into trouble, I hope you're gonna I hope you have a good shop. Yeah.
Host - Josh AndersonSo we appreciate you guys.
Host - Dane HigginsGive us a review, share, like it's like it's like it subscribe. It's fun to see.
