The Art of Building Successful Ventures with Roger Beaman - 70

Get a firsthand look into the world of start-ups and entrepreneurship from Roger Beaman, the founder of Novel, a successful e-commerce platform. We have the pleasure of hosting Roger for an enlightening chat about the rollercoaster ride that's entrepreneurship. We traverse through Roger's entrepreneurial journey, dwelling on the unexpected challenges and the inspiring moments. Together, we highlight the importance of forming a connection with customers and fostering loyalty.

We dive into the realm of venturing into start-ups, discussing the motivation that fuels such ambition. Roger shares his insights on the differences between creating a novel product versus entering an existing market, and the challenges that come with attempting to make a dent in a well-established space. We also recount our venture business launch experiences, and how we faced up against multi-billion dollar enterprises. The conversation evolves further to unravel the challenges that ambitious projects bring along and the delicate balance of risk-taking and sticking to a defined path.

To cap it off, Roger shares his nuggets of wisdom on surviving in the entrepreneurial world, emphasizing on the importance of faith in oneself, having a committed team, and the power of long-lasting relationships. We also explore the significance of embracing small innovations and how technology helps in the creation of a successful venture. Listen to this episode to understand the dynamics of start-ups and entrepreneurship from someone who's been there, done that.

Transcript

Brandon Amoroso: 0:07

I'm Brandon Amoroso and this is the D2Z podcast Building and growing your business from a Gen Z perspective. Hey, everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast about using the Gen Z mindset to grow your business. I'm Gen Z entrepreneur Brandon Amoroso, founder and president of Retention as a Service Agency, electric, and today I'm joined by Roger Beeman, founder of Novel, previous founder of Smarter and also a senior advisor to one of our close partners, the CEO of Recharge. So really excited to have you on.

Roger Beaman: 0:50

Excited to be on. Thank you, brandon.

Brandon Amoroso: 0:54

Before we start grilling each other here, can you give everybody a quick sort of TLDR on yourself and your background?

Roger Beaman: 1:03

Sure, yeah, and, by the way, I just realized I myself have a trucker hat here. I actually just recently visited Nebraska. This is a trucker hat from a trucking company that my friend works at, so it's legit. So now we match. So, yeah, TLDR on myself.

Roger Beaman: 1:25

I studied finance, was a financial analyst, then got super into programming and sort of took this winding path, Eventually ended up at Goldman Sachs where I was a like what they call like a strat there, which is kind of like their finance plus programming people. Then I worked at a startup, a commercial real estate startup, called Rionomy. It was like super awesome. We still do reunions with like 50% of the company showing up, so it was like a really special little family there and that sort of showed me like what a startup could be and made me interested in doing it.

Roger Beaman: 2:07

Yeah, and a kind of bizarre little nuances. The first place I worked as an engineer, this billionaire guy who had been running the company was like like kind of took me under his wing and was like you should start companies and so he had been kind of pushing me to do that. But I was like, you know, I kind of like this engineering stuff. I don't know if I want to do that. And then, but you know, with this experience at Rionomy, I was like all right, you know, I kind of got an idea of how cool doing a startup could be. And so the next time he came calling I was like okay, let's try this. This is like middle of. Covid was crazy, Started a subscription company that you knew you know a lot of people have probably heard of, called Smarter.

Roger Beaman: 2:54

And you know, I mean that was like through a heck of a lot of hard work and some luck, that went really well, really quickly. I mean, basically there's the obvious question would be why I'm out there anymore. And I think candidly, you know, in situations where you do really well, really quickly, sometimes that brings out the worst in some people. And yeah, you know, I woke up one day without the company I had started and that was really tough. But you know, the cool part was that you know, I'd experienced what building a successful company was like and you know a lot of the good parts of it. And I'd experienced this world of e-commerce, which I think is a really cool one to be in, you know. And yeah, like that kind of opened up this whole new world to me and yeah, so yeah, then around that time, you know, like basically I'd formed a lot of good relationships with investors. So the iOS, like change had happened and traditional acquisition channels have been challenged, and so it was like all right, basically, if novel was formed around the idea of can we unlock a new way for brands to connect with their customers, that can kind of change the economics of like for these brands and then ultimately make them more sustainable businesses, right, and really let them own their audience more. And so that was like the mission that we began on and yeah, and I would say that today we have delivered on that with this Wild Pass product that, like you and me, have talked about a good bit, brandon.

Roger Beaman: 4:58

But yeah, basically, that is this new way that the brands have to kind of surface their retention stack to customers and make all of their loyalty channels more effective, as well as unlock a new engagement channel for sending push notifications to their most engaged customers, and it's a free engagement channel, unlike email and SMS that costs money. It's for customers that have opted in, like by default, right, because they've installed your Wild Pass, so you don't have to worry about any legal concerns. And yeah, and it's also highly effective because it's kind of on your screen, on your lock screen, before you even get to your email or SMS app, right. So so, yeah, that is, you know, do well with the TLDR. Is that maybe it was too long of a TLDR, you know?

Brandon Amoroso: 5:56

No, it's perfect. I do have a couple of questions, though, based off of some of the stuff that you touched on there, and so I think, like in general, entrepreneurship is over glorified in, like the mainstream media. So I guess what are some of the things that having on your end now started two separate companies, what are like the, the gotchas or the things that you were like, wow, like shit, this really sucks. I didn't know that I was gonna have to do like X, y and Z, because I just saw these things that made it look like I don't know. You flew around on private jets and brokered deals and TV nonsense.

Roger Beaman: 6:44

Totally. Yeah, I mean, I think that the entrepreneurship gets sort of glorified and like people almost think of. You know, when I myself was, like in these corporate jobs, sort of like seeking inspiration, right, I would like listen to you know, like Steve Jobs, right, or these, or you know Elon Musk, right, and these different people that, like I found really inspiring, right, and you kind of think entrepreneurship is sort of sort of being on a stage and you almost think of it as being like a philosopher, right, and being the person that inspires other people and stuff like that, and like that's part of the job. When you get to a certain point, right, but like the beginning, right, is crazy, like it's like you know, you like, and I think, crazy in a way that like is hard to even convey, like it's hard to really understand that until you do it, like I had read about these, like you know Elon Musk, I'd heard, for example, I remember, describe entrepreneurship as chewing glass and staring into the abyss, right and like.

Roger Beaman: 8:09

When you hear that, you're like, okay, that sounds kind of badass, right, but like then when you're actually doing it, when you like quit your job in the middle of a pandemic, right, and all of your friends, you know, think you're crazy, right, and then you are, you know, trying to raise money for a company that you started a couple of months ago in a space you don't know about, and then you're trying to convince your friends that, you know, I mean I worked in finance, right. So I'm like trying to convince my friends that are working at like hedge funds and stuff to like quit their you know, highly paying jobs they've worked their whole life to get to come join me at a company that is kind of just me, right, and like the kind of line between being an entrepreneur and being unemployed at that stage is sort of very thin, right, and you know, and you're trying to, but like you have to do it right, and it's kind of like, so the early days are just like this crazy game of survival and I think that like the only way certainly to go through that the first time is to just sort of burn the ships, if you will, right. Like you know, at that time I felt like I had no other choice than to figure out how to make it work. And you know I was going against recharge $2 billion company with, you know, 0.001% of the resources initially, and it's just kind of a bizarre game of like you know how you survive. I think another interesting thing is it's like you like you sort of think it, at least myself, you know I studied economics and finance, right. So it's sort of you think in terms of strategy, right, and these like high levels for key things right, which is cool and it's like great for like coming up with the idea and like a business that makes sense and stuff right.

Roger Beaman: 10:10

But you know, I remember at one point it's like you know all right, I've got like my first customer on the line here who is like the horse pills guy right, like selling, you know horse pills on subscription, right. And it's like you know the strategy, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, what matters is every single call that I'm having with the horse pills guy, right, you know, and like all right. So like one of the he say last time right, and it's so intensely operational and in the weeds and kind of just this brick by brick building up, and I think that is sort of lost when you hear that person that you know gets on the stage and has already made it, and at that point.

Roger Beaman: 10:55

You know it's their job to inspire people, right, rather than you know Steve Jobs, when he was like selling to like the computer hardware guy, right, like you know you hear about like the first store that he sold to, right, and it's like all that mattered at that time was getting the, you know, whatever version of the Apple computer existed at that time to sell in that store, right. So, but you know, if you can make it through that and survive and not go crazy, which is hard, then you know you get to like the fun parts. I don't think, candidly, anyone enjoys that early part, like I think you know, and they might have to, you know, pretend that they do or people do on podcasts, but I don't think anyone does. I think some people can survive it and it's very hard.

Brandon Amoroso: 11:45

Well, there's a couple of things there, like, for one, the I was so hesitant to tell people about electric in the early days, even when we were doing well, cause it's like, yeah, sure, like whatever, like you're just, you're unemployed and you you clearly just spend your time like watching Netflix or something. Which couldn't have been further from the truth. But I actually I kind of I enjoyed electric really before we had any clients, cause, like I just got to spend most of the day learning and thinking and strategizing.

Roger Beaman: 12:26

And then it's like the grind that like first 12 to 18 months, was just really quite unrewarding and not satisfying in any way whatsoever and it was yeah, well, now, right now you're about to be welcomed to, you know, I mean, I don't know how much you're you're ready to talk about it yet, but you know, with scale it's, you're about to be, you know, welcomed to the venture backed world, where you know that beginning part when you've raised millions of dollars. And now, like I mean, if you're a person that I suppose should be someone that can raise millions of dollars, then you know, that feels like, just, you know, you just grabbed a ton of accountability and put it onto your back, right, like to make these people get a return on investment. I think that's one thing that's confusing too. Actually is like when you read about fundraising announcements, right, it kind of almost feels like that is the win, right, and really it's like you know you've just kind of gotten like the ability to, you know, push to the next level, right.

Roger Beaman: 13:41

But it's also just like this huge amount of accountability, right, it's like, you know it's not like Shark Tank, where you like just pitch, you know, one time and then these guys say yes or no. These are these like long term relationships of trust that you build, right, and you know, and you're going to be, like, you know, talking to these guys like on a very regular basis, right, that have entrusted you with their money, right, and so you know, like I say, if you're the type of person that you know like probably should have been the one that they invested in, right, like that just kind of like feels like a huge weight of responsibility, right, so to the outside world it looks like a win, right, but it's not like that money is just going into your pocket, like you've got to make that money work, right, so so, yeah, so, anyways, that's, that's, that's what you're about to enter.

Brandon Amoroso: 14:38

Well, so welcome. I'm finding it more motivating than even making a return for yourself, and especially like people you're close to who are giving you money or like well, shit, like, if anything, I'm going to make this thing work because I need it to work for X, y and Z that have entrusted me to make it work 100%.

Roger Beaman: 14:58

I mean, that's, that's like I would say honestly. Part of the reason that I want the venture back for out myself is because I know that if I tell people that like I'm going to do something and I'm responsible for them, I'm responsible for employees that I've, you know, brought in right, I'm responsible for customers that you know, I know intimately as well, right, then, like that is way more motivating to me than than just you know, I'm going to, you know, make a buck for myself, right, and it's almost it's like a thing in human nature to like people say that like they're more people are more reliable with taking their dogs to the vet than they are setting up their own doctor's appointments, right. And so so, you know, at least for me, I kind of view it as almost a way to like trick myself into working harder. So, yeah, you know.

Brandon Amoroso: 15:56

What are the differences between starting a product in a space that already exists it was like with smarter. Obviously there was already recharge and versus. I guess I use a really terrible pun here doing something novel in creating a product that doesn't exist yet With when you launched back I don't even remember when that was probably like two years ago, a year and a half ago, something like a year and a half, yeah, yeah, no, I could, I could tell you.

Roger Beaman: 16:28

I mean, yeah, so with it's totally different, like night and day different, and that's kind of interesting because I think it's it's good you called that out because, yeah, I think that you know to the outside world, maybe there's just this one, you know, lump of this thing called entrepreneurship, right, but, like you know, trying to make a Facebook competitor versus making Facebook when there is no Facebook Actually that's a bad example because there was my space, but but I think you get the point where it's like, if you are doing the new thing, right versus like going after, like something that already exists and is proven right is just two extremely different models of business and startup. So for, yeah, so my case for for smarter, like, and I guess you know I mean, all right, I've got a sample size of you know one of each right, but what I can say from that is with going, you know, going after recharge, right, which is it's funny now because Oshin and I talk all the time and so you know, like I know his side of that story too, right, but it's kind of like you trade that experience of finding product market fit in for just extreme execution risk, right, like sort of like, like you could kind of think of, like with two, two forms of risk broadly with a startup, there is like market risk, right, do people actually want this thing? Right, and then there's execution risk, which is, like you know, can I actually deliver this thing? Right, Like if you can make a time machine, you know that's pretty much all execution risk impossible to date. Right, but the question is, you know, can you actually do it right? Versus you know, if you can make, like you know, I don't know, like, like, like other things right, like like MySpace before MySpace existed, right, it would have been unclear that you know whether or not, like people actually wanted that, like the technology to do it existed for a while.

Brandon Amoroso: 18:57

And the winner isn't always the one for some market, obviously, like in that example with MySpace and Facebook, you know totally, yeah, yeah.

Roger Beaman: 19:07

So, like, I think that there's the interesting thing with the, the challenger model, if you will, if you want to refer to it as that, right, like when we going to have to recharge, it's like all in the execution risk. So it's like me as a founder, it's like the hours and just the sheer amount of effort, right, it's kind of like you know, a metaphor might be like, you know, seeing Serena Williams play tennis and being like, all right, I'm going to try to beat Serena Williams at tennis. Right, you know, that's kind of what it's like to go against a $2 billion company. When it's just you by yourself, like you know in, you know, like in the middle of pandemic, right, like at your house, right, so you know, like it kind of feels like a total act of lunacy, right, but if you just kind of pour all of your effort into it, right, basically you know they're like and this was, I guess, an interesting learning from that experience is that you actually might have a shot, right, you know, because it would feel impossible.

Roger Beaman: 20:14

Right, If you're like I'm going to beat Serena Williams, you know, or be just with the tennis, right, but it's like all right if you make your entire life about it, like you actually do have a shot, right and you know, because, like it's possible that just no one is as obsessed as you, right, and so. So that's what that was like, you know, I mean, but it was like super nerve wracking, so it's kind of like there you're like chasing you know. Like you like it's very well defined what you have to do, right. You know if you're taking on, you know, like Serena Williams, the tennis right, like you just have to be a very, very good tennis player and practice your ass off. It's like very, but it's well defined, right. Whereas you know, and so it's just an extremely you know, like. You know, maybe like hiking Mount Everest or right is another example where it's like very well defined, you know you might die, like if you do it right, but like the path is clear, right and so. So, yeah, the whole thing was just like a slog Right, Like it was like an extra.

Roger Beaman: 21:24

You know there were times, particularly you know, it was the pandemic, so it was like there wasn't much else to do, which I think helped, you know, me and the team be super focused. But, yeah, you know, there were times I was working, like you know pulling like two all nighters a week doing that, right, like like, like you just like grinding the hardest you know possible, which was like insane. You know like. Then you like go talk to the customer and it's like you like barely, you know like taking like three shots of Commiteer and you're like, okay, all right, you know like hopefully my brain is together enough to do this, so, so that's what that's like, because it's just your effort to, like you know, run as fast as you can after this person. That's so far ahead.

Roger Beaman: 22:07

Then to start something new, though like the other way to do it, right, you, you then take on like real market risk, right, and it's like you know, I mean, and I think, like you know, right like we started like with this Web three products, right, and don't get me wrong, like that's serving like a certain type of, like you know, tech forward, consumer and brand.

Roger Beaman: 22:30

That likes that, right, like blockchain is sort of like it's, it's it's weird, it's like it's it's kind of like its own little like religion around a piece of technology, which myself, as like a technologist, I'm like I don't really know why that's there, but okay, you know, because to me it's just like code, but but, yeah, you know, and so so, like you know, at one point it looked like, like, you know, like blockchain technology had hit this inflection point where it was going to get, you know, math, consumer adoption, so this looked like a great idea, right, and and then, all of a sudden, you know it didn't look that way anymore and then it stayed, you know, confined to, like you know, a certain group of people, right, and you know that's.

Roger Beaman: 23:14

You know, welcome to, you know, adult life.

Roger Beaman: 23:17

If you're taking on market risk, right, like sometimes, you know the risks and materializes, right, and so you know, so that was just a very different. You know that's like with subscriptions, right, it's like you know the idea that people are going to like getting things over and over again and that merchants are going to like far being people, money and over and over again, pretty, pretty foundational, not going to go away, right, whereas you know you're taking on real market risk if you, if you go and try to do something new and with wall passes, I mean similar thing here. I mean I think the I'd say we've taken much less market risk because the adoption of Apple Pay and Google Pay, right, which is like what we're kind of building on top of that's like skyrocketed in the pandemic and yeah, and then the idea of, like you know, a new engagement channel, like there's a lot of ways in which this, it's just a much more clear product to like immediately drop to your top and bottom line, right, so so it's a very different experience.

Brandon Amoroso: 24:27

Yeah, I think. I don't think it's as concrete necessarily as, like, the subscription app space, because, like that, like you got a very clearly defined path there, whereas we're essentially taking two like let's. Let's say, if we were like just doing an ATS or we're just doing a job board, then we'd have that clearly defined path. We're trying to like tow the line between these synergies that come with having that integrated into one, and so it's like shades of the exact same and like we have very clear execution path on like the ATS, but there's other things that are different, or like it's sort of own unique flair or differentiation factor because of the fact that, you know, there's like more data available or there's a different feedback loop, and so it'll. It'll be interesting to see how it evolves, because we're sort of attacking two different product offerings versus one.

Roger Beaman: 25:29

Totally. Yeah, yeah, you know that's actually a good way to phrase the, the Challenger one too is it's like because you're so out resource, right, and obviously you guys are doing something different beyond that, but it's like like the innovations as opposed to one big innovation, right, which is kind of, you know, like what it was with with wall passes, for us, now instead it's like 1000 little innovations, right, because you kind of need a hack like every step of the way, because you're so out resourced, right, and so you know. So, yeah, I think that is you know and I think you know you, you guys are like very well equipped to do that, but but yeah, that's maybe another way to put it is it's like you kind of just need all of these little innovations so that you can just run a little bit further with a little bit less.

Brandon Amoroso: 26:23

Yeah, honestly, the scariest thing for me is the actual execution itself. Like I am hyper confident in the vision and what I think can happen and market adoption, but until we launch on September 1, it's just like, well, shit you know what, if, what? If we launch and it just doesn't work or there's a bunch of bugs, are like shit hits the pan and like, yeah, like I see that it's not happening and, like you know, we obviously have the development team or doing all the testing and iteration and whatnot. But that always just sort of lingers in the back of my mind because I'm not a developer, so I'm not the one like actually responsible for the end product that's being displayed and delivered to the customer. And that's a new, that's a new role for me to be in, because, like of electric, obviously I was responsible for everything and you know it's just different.

Roger Beaman: 27:16

Yeah, man, it's a gift and a curse as someone that is, you know, a technical founder. It's like, all right, the yard. It's a gift that you can like, you know, like ultimately get in there and fix things if you have to. But it's a curse because you, technically, can do every job and so, yeah, you know, that's where the two all nighters a week can come in, which is not necessarily healthy. So, yeah, you know, there's there's two sides to that coin.

Roger Beaman: 27:50

I sometimes envy it to, for non technical founders, the ability to kind of just put that stuff completely out of your brain, you know, and yeah, because sometimes it almost feels like I have like multiple personalities where I have to like switch between one. You know, it's sort of, you're in the car working on the engine, right, and then you jump out of the car and you're like look at this awesome car right, like from the outside of the car, and it's like to, you know, it's like being a car salesman and a car mechanic at the same time, yep, so yeah, which is, most people don't do both of those things.

Brandon Amoroso: 28:27

So yeah, I can't even imagine and that. But I think that's what part of the challenge of being an entrepreneur in general, whether you're technical or not, is just the ability to delegate, and you know you're only going to be as strong as especially if you want to, you know build a sizable company. It's really dependent on the team. It's sort of out of your control in so many regards.

Roger Beaman: 28:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing is just like it's like delegation and empowerment are like two sides of the same coin and it's like, yeah, I mean like you, almost like I think the thing that is scarce in startups and it's frankly going to kind of decay from the founder outward, is this like deep sense of ownership, right, like this feeling of like being on the hook and so like. Obviously you need to have that and convey that to people, like how much you care, right, but also empowering them so that it's like you know, like they feel that the work that they're doing and contributing is meaningful. Right, rather than being like can you please do this for me? Right, it's kind of like, because that would be sort of like the full delegation style of doing that right, it's like you know, here's how what you're doing is really important and is going to make us all you know, build a great company together, right?

Brandon Amoroso: 30:09

Especially at this stage where it's like if you wanted a good job that paid a bunch and you know, maybe wasn't as rewarding or fulfilling, like that's out there, but you're not coming to the two person startup you know for the big fancy paycheck and all the perks and benefits and whatnot. There has to be value intrinsically within your business and what you're doing, what you're building, otherwise nobody's going to want to work for you Totally.

Roger Beaman: 30:39

I mean, well, and I think that you know, having been because I certainly, you know, after, like you know, my first company and the experience of that you know I considered like, oh, do I never want to do this again, you know. But, yeah, I mean, I think there's something just addicting about, like the grand adventure that is starting something from nothing. It's the hardest thing to do in business, right, like to start something from nothing. Yeah, I mean one thing that you know maybe a lot of people don't think about. It's like like, being an entrepreneur is something that everyone knows. Or joining an early stage startup it's something that everyone knows is the way to make the most money in the economy, and everyone likes money, and so it's the way to make the most money in the economy.

Roger Beaman: 31:32

Potentially, obviously, this risk doesn't work out and there's actually nothing in terms of a, you know, unlike. You know, say, a job at Goldman Sachs or these other, right, like, like where you have to work, you know your whole life and go to specific schools and all these other things to get those jobs right. Technically, anyone that can, you know, register an LLC and start a company tomorrow, right, so it's the way that you know, potentially pays the most. It has actually, you know, basically no barrier to entry right and yet very, very few people do it right. And but once you have right, like once you've kind of crossed that chasm right and sort of seeing it like proven to yourself that you might have what it takes, I do think it's kind of like addicting and it would be really hard to go back.

Brandon Amoroso: 32:31

Yeah, yeah, I'm screwed Like. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm sort of screwed in the sense that I am not going to be able to, like, take on a typical job, even if, like, I need to, and I also would be the worst employee ever, like.

Brandon Amoroso: 32:52

I would be like I'd want to be doing a thousand things. I'd be causing more trouble than like anybody above me would want. Like, oh God, like in Brandon, just like shut up and stop trying to change all these processes. And like do all this crap Like I would be a terrible employee.

Roger Beaman: 33:08

Yeah, maybe that's it actually, like you just can't go back. So once you've crossed that cap, so yeah, maybe every entrepreneur just becomes unemployable. So then they have to. I think for me like it was.

Brandon Amoroso: 33:27

I don't want to say it was easy, but I think I had a easier time doing it and a lot of folks I've spoken to because I did it in college when I had no real like responsibilities or things that I had to worry about.

Brandon Amoroso: 33:40

But when I see people who do it like who have, like I don't know, have like three kids and like a very stable job and like all these other things that are not only like factoring into their financial or their risk appetite when it comes to finances, but also time, Like you have three kids and you've got stuff on the weekends and like I get all my work done on the weekends, so I can't even imagine like having kids and like when the hell would I actually be able to do work, and so I really find it admirable and hopefully something I'll have to deal with eventually. But like how do you balance all these different things? And I think you just have to become so hyper efficient with your time and just very, very organized to make sure that you're still able to check all the boxes.

Roger Beaman: 34:34

Yeah, yeah, you might have inferred from my background. You know this robot and this dragon over here. That's not my own. So, yes, I do have a five year old son and I mean I guess my best answer to that is I have an extremely supportive wife who puts up with my lunacy. Yeah and so. But I mean seriously like yeah, I mean that's a it's a little crazy story I met my wife in a laundromat when I was 22. So, yeah, so I would say that was, you know, the luckiest thing that has ever happened to me. And and, yeah, I mean I think basically, like I kind of said jokingly, like you know, a supportive wife. But that is actually probably what helps me get, you know, keep it together and and and keep going on this.

Brandon Amoroso: 35:38

on this path, I feel like having a supportive partner whether it's a wife or, you know, just people in your circle in general is very important. You can't. You can't do everything yourself.

Roger Beaman: 35:51

Yeah, yeah, definitely yeah. I mean I've got you know, I mean it's not just my wife, I've got you know, basically like a group of people I mean, and I guess this is just, you know, being how I live my life and it's how I've been able to, you know, recruit for and get, get these people that are extremely talented to quit their job at Uber or wherever and come join me on on my crazy adventures. Is, you know, basically like from every place, that like every sort of chapter of my life, you know I've, like I typically have like one or two like close friends and so I've just sort of, you know, built that over the years and yeah, I mean, and that is sort of my committee of sort of like life coach advisors, and I mean they lean on me, I lean on them. So, yes, that is certainly yeah, that certainly helps too.

Brandon Amoroso: 37:05

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Well, I've kept you here for quite some time. Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on last minute? Sort of tips or tricks for folks listening, any anything?

Roger Beaman: 37:21

Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of interesting. You know, like we had no script right, so we ended up talking about entrepreneurship, so sort of like meta business talk rather than talking about, you know, like our businesses themselves and what they actually do. Yeah, so I guess, with that in mind though I guess keeping on that, I mean, I guess the best advice that I've ever gotten well, all right, the best advice that I've ever gotten about, you know, sort of like starting a company, there's a few things. One is and this is sort of broader to life advice there's be more excited than you are scared, and like that applies to, like you know, sort of a lot of like high pressure situations, like giving a speech, doing a job interview, stuff like that, like me being on this podcast now, right, like inevitably there's going to be some nervousness, right, and so you basically and I think our instinct is to sort of like try to suppress that, and I think that, psychologically at least and I'm not a neuroscientist, but like what I can say has worked better for me is to focus on sort of feeding the excitement rather than trying to suppress the fear, right, and so you know, I mean and look like I was a very introverted engineer and I had to learn how to pitch world-class investors to get them to invest in my company, and you know, I'd say you know that sort of helped a lot. There's something called the Stockdale Paradox too, which is like, which a friend shared with me, actually like in the middle of you know, when I was struggling with my first time ever fundraising for ForerSmarter, which I was ultimately successful in. Yeah, there was the Stockdale Paradox. Is I'm rough, I'm going to butcher it, but it's basically like.

Roger Beaman: 39:37

It's basically like you need to have sort of ultimate faith that you will like, succeed in the long term, right, but don't let that blind you to the sort of most brutal realities in front of you, right. So it's like, almost have this, like what some might view as unrealistic faith in yourself that you will succeed long term, right, but be extremely realistic about the challenges that are in front of you. And the context of that is it actually comes from this guy that was a survivor of prisoner of war in Vietnam, and so and I think that that actually is also humbling as a reminder too it's like you know, like. It's like you know, this is what you know, this is the sky's advice for like getting through this like prisoner of war situation and it's very useful. But also a reminder that you know like in the ups and downs that are, it can be wild and entrepreneurship right. Like you're not a prisoner of war in Vietnam, like so you know overall yes, Overall first world problems, definitely, Even though it doesn't feel like that sometimes.

Roger Beaman: 40:48

Yeah, and then I think the other one, you know, I think is yeah, basically to just like play the long game, Cause like I think that that is like it's how I've seen like I guess a lot of people shoot themselves in the foot is, you know, sort of like like startups are about kind of growing the pie right and I think by trying to grab more of the pie right.

Roger Beaman: 41:22

So then thinking of it as like a fixed pie rather than like trying to grow the pie right, Like actually that's a thing in psychology, like a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset, and I think that that is like something that is probably the most important thing to look for in hiring for a startup is people that share that kind of like growth mindset, Like, because it's like if you just kind of like survival as a startup and making the business work is hard enough, right as is, and so then if you just like you know like you all need to be kind of like focused on that right and making the startup work right, Rather than sort of like trying to edge over on each other and like play shot sharp elbowed, you know, typical kind of like office politics in a place like Goldman Sachs, right, Like you know.

Roger Beaman: 42:23

So if you're sort of thinking with that zero sum game mindset, right, Like, letting someone like that into your company, that's a startup I think can like, even like one person, right, that has that mindset, I think can be really detrimental. Like versus, you know, like a positive, like zero sum game thinking versus positive sum game thinking. Because you know, I think that's the beauty of a startup is that it can be this team win, right, and so I think it's really important to make sure that everyone is oriented around that.

Brandon Amoroso: 42:56

Yeah, I could. Those first team members are critical in the longterm success of the business, for sure, and whether or not they're really there to help, they build the culture with you. They sort of set the tone for the rest of the team members as well. You know, one bad apple can cause quite a few issues.

Roger Beaman: 43:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's like you know and it just kind of like you know, messes up that beautiful dynamic that it can be for you to kind of like be in this, to win together. You know, and so you know, but you know, that's that's. I think the thing. I guess the encouraging note for entrepreneurship is that it really can be this team win right. And I think that that's something kind of like rare candidly like in the workplace right, like a lot of times, particularly in corporate environments, it's like you know, it's like you or the guy next to you getting this promotion right and you know, and it's kind of hard to make you know lifelong friends in that situation. And you know, really lifelong friends I think are like I mean, there's like folks on this right Like that's kind of the ultimate currency of life. Right Is like that's what makes people happy is long-term friendships, and so you know, in a way, I think a beautiful thing is that startups can sort of build that into your life in an organic way.

Brandon Amoroso: 44:24

So anyways, I'd say, definitely some of my closest friends are from work. Yeah, probably more actually than those those not from work. Just yeah. I think part of that is inherent with also being a founder is that you're like you're new in your night shifts and spending a lot of the time on your business, so it's difficult to keep or create or start relationships outside of that as well.

Roger Beaman: 44:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we're, you know, on the night shift together, like we're both green on Slack, so you know so. But anyways, this has been great and thank you so much for having me on and look forward to hearing more about you. Know, scale us as you, as you roll it out.

Brandon Amoroso: 45:17

Yeah, I'm excited. Before we hop off, can you let people know where they can find you and novel online?

Roger Beaman: 45:25

Sure, yeah. Yeah, I mean social media wise, like I'm most present on on LinkedIn, definitely, and and novel correspondingly as well, although we do. We do the Twitter thing some too. But yeah, I mean novelcom. Actually, you talk about luck. One of our investors owned novelcom, right, and so so, yeah, so that's how we got, you know, like a one word, like we didn't have to end up being like, you know, like get novelxyz or whatever, and so so, yeah, you know, you sort of make your own luck by showing up, but that was, that was a pretty crazy one. So novelcom is our company's website.

Brandon Amoroso: 46:13

Nice, nice, and so that's a good investor to have. Yeah, well, thanks for coming on for everybody listening. As always, this is Brandon Amoroso. You can find me at BrandonAmorosocom or electricmarketingcom. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. A.