Mastering Loyalty Programs and Customer Engagement with Jared Mintzlaff - 84

Join Brandon Amoroso and Jared Mintzlaff in this enlightening episode as they explore the world of loyalty programs and customer engagement. Discover the frustrations of generic loyalty initiatives and the need for tailored programs that nurture genuine customer retention. Gain insights into measuring program success, crafting unique loyalty experiences, and the importance of building authentic connections with customers. Learn about key metrics for program evaluation and the optimal timing for program implementation. Whether you're an e-commerce enthusiast or a business owner, this episode offers strategic advice to elevate your customer engagement and loyalty strategies. Don't miss their practical tips for preparing your brand for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. 

Jared Mintzlaff

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredmintzlaff/

Nifty Bridge - https://www.niftybridge.io/

Brandon Amoroso:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/

Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/

X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

I'm Brandon Amaroso and this is the D2Z podcast Building and growing your business from a Gen Z perspective. Hey, everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast about using the Gen Z mindset to grow your business. I'm Gen Z entrepreneur Brandon Amaroso, founder and president of Retention as a Service Agency Electric. Today I'm talking with Jared Minzloff, a founder of Nifty Bridge, a VIP and loyalty experience at for Shopify merchants. Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Thanks for having me, brandon, appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 0:38

So, before we jump into some of the things that we're going to cover today, can you give everybody just a brief background on yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:46

Yeah, absolutely. So. I graduated from Loyola Maryland for all the Baltimoreians out there Went into finance shortly after, just did a brief stint in finance, realized it wasn't for me, joined tech up in Boston at a company called HubSpot and was able to really see how tech companies were built and scaled. And HubSpot was an incredible company. I learned quite a bit and I joined Clavio about two and a half years after HubSpot which, for you listeners probably know, they just IPO this year and after I had seen Clavio kind of go through that growth, I realized I'm ready. I really want to go build sort of my own software tool. I loved e-commerce and I really wanted to solve sort of a consistent theme of challenges that brands were having, which was how do I keep customers coming back, how do I foster true loyalty? And so I launched Nifty Bridge shortly after my time at Clavio and am now doing it full time, helping brands rethink the way they traditionally think about loyalty.

Speaker 1: 1:53

What was that transition like from working within some of the larger tech companies, especially with an e-com with Clavio, to going out and doing it on your own?

Speaker 2: 2:08

Yeah, massive transition going from an individual contributor to managing all the contributions, going from a small wheel and a cog to the entire cog plus extra. I think, in any role when you first start. I like that analogy drink from a fire hose when you start a business, as I'm sure you know, Brandon, the fire hose is just infinitely bigger. So, learning a lot, failing more. But I do think the biggest thing, the biggest difference, really was the fact that there is no playbook.

Speaker 2: 2:48

When I started Nifty Bridge, I didn't have necessarily great mentors. I didn't know anybody that really built a software company from scratch. I didn't have relationships like that that could kind of tell me and guide me. I also didn't necessarily love reading books. The Lean Startup shout out was about the only one I read.

Speaker 2: 3:04

So I think the biggest change was just I was at Clavio, where there were systems, there were processes, there were playbooks and you could go in there and you had that as a foundation. Obviously you could change it, make it your own, but at least there was something where it was like okay, I know, if I say these things on a call, someone's probably going to want to buy Clavio. Well, Clavio sold itself, but with Nifty Bridge. There was no playbook. We were trying to do something that had never been done. I had a vision for things that nobody was really thinking about, so there's not necessarily something you can look at and say, hey, build this, but better. There was not that, and so that was the biggest change was just figuring out how do I build something that hasn't been previously built.

Speaker 1: 3:45

And did you start off anybody else or was it a Riosolo founder?

Speaker 2: 3:50

Just me. Just me and a Ragtag group of engineers that were willing to work with a 26 year old at the time.

Speaker 1: 3:59

And do you think you would go that route again if given the choice?

Speaker 2: 4:07

Absolutely not.

Speaker 2: 4:10

No, I think there was a part of me, that's a competitor inside of me, that really was like, hey, I can do this, I take all the risk, I get all the rewards, sort of thinking.

Speaker 2: 4:21

The reality is running a business, starting a company, is already hard, so I don't think you get any brownie points for trying to make it harder on yourself If you have the skill set ready to go. Like if I started a new company, I think I could do it solo. But I would want to definitely think about intentionally that team I would build. But as far as like for first time founders, I definitely think if there's someone in your network or if you can reach out to folks, that kind of fill gaps in your process initially, I think it can save you years of making bad decisions, years of time, money and at the end of the day, 10% of 100 grand is 10 grand, 10% of 100 million is 10 million. So I would think about it from the mindset of like, if I bring in the right people, this thing can be 50 times what it can be if you just build it yourself.

Speaker 1: 5:15

Yeah, no, that makes sense. There's definitely a lot of companies I look at who at least have, you know, like Two founders or three, where they all complement each other very well, but also there's obviously other cases where maybe there's some overlap or, you know, don't necessarily see eye to eye Until we arrive, seen the most issues when there's not, like that, one person who's the true sort of clear leader, and then there ends up being a lot of you know Back and forth and eventually there has to be like a final decision maker, if there's, if there's a tie in something, and so being a solo founder, you just obviously sort of do your own thing, which is something that you can't do when, when you're working within you know, dealing with other personalities and things like that.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Was were you a solo founder at Electric.

Speaker 1: 6:14

Yeah, which, like for For the purposes of being able to act quickly and just get shit done, was great. But also it would have been awesome to have somebody who I could have trusted to do Some of the things that I either didn't want to do or wasn't great at, and unfortunately it was during covids. There was nothing else to do but work. But there were certainly a lot of areas that could have been Delegated elsewhere. But then, on the flip side, would that person that I had, you know, partner with, been able to put in the same level of effort or same attention to detail that I would have expected? Or even in reverse, was I would I be, you know, putting in the same level of effort or attention detail?

Speaker 1: 7:06

So I think it was good to do the first one as a solo founder, because now I also have a little bit better of an idea of you know how to start and run a business, and so going into something else With somebody is not, you know, as necessarily Perplexing for me as it would have been doing it to begin with. And then I also understand what I want to be focused on, what I'm better at than than others, and so I'm able to better select or like choose. You know the co-founder, because I know what I'm gonna be able to bring to the table and what I'll be able to focus on, versus when I first started. I just did everything and there would have been no way for me to say, oh yeah, I'd prefer to do the, to do this, or I'll be a better value add at this.

Speaker 2: 7:53

So yeah, how often do you invite someone into your car when you don't know how to drive? You know, I think there's probably a little bit of that apprehension in me too. When I was first starting, I had some folks that were willing to jump in the ship with me, but I think there was a part of me that was like you know, I don't even know Necessarily where this thing's going. So I don't want to put this burden on you, whether that's like my own personal flaws or not, but I do think that, like in the future, right, if I'm doing it again Now that you know how to drive a car, you're gonna be much more likely to be like okay, like comfortable bringing people in without you know severe safety measures.

Speaker 1: 8:30

So yeah, yeah, actually I met somebody the other day who like has no license and they're like our age, like how does that even happen? They like grew up in New York and then they live somewhere else and they just Uber the wild to me, but I don't have a car first for six years, but I still know how to drive.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I think you should still have a license. You never know when, like Somebody's like hands you the keys and is like, hey, I need you to drive me home, like, so it's good skill to have, yeah the.

Speaker 1: 9:09

I don't think I'd be able to hack it without a car. I just need to be able to get out and do things and have freedom and flexibility and don't like to feel. Don't like to feel trapped, but I Can see how, being within like you know, city or something, it would make a lot of sense. This is such a pain in the ass to have one too. But as it relates to you know what you're seeing within the market and given the variety of things that have been changing over the last year, year and a half within e-commerce, why is like? Why should a brand invest in, you know, a loyalty and VIP experience now and then? How can they do so in my in a way that's actually thoughtful and well put together? So I've seen a lot that are kind of just like you know, hack together and then they don't get the customer adoption and the brand sort of left thinking to themselves that VIP programs don't work Really. It's more so the you know, the rollout of it.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Yeah, I think there's a few things in there that love to touch on. I think the first thing is why should you care? I think Every brand, I don't care how small you are, you have people that care about what you do, that Care about your mission or care about your product, and I think a lot of the times, at least in the past, the way of thinking has been hey, once you get the customer that's the end goal right, thinking of them as sort of a product of a system, you pump money in the top of the funnel. They hit the, the product page, then you use claveo to get them to come back and sort of build that funnel and then they become a customer. And I know for a long time not saying that this is how it is anymore. I know brands like electric retention, right, but it used to be. That was like the formula and it was like you want more customers, you dump more on the top and then more customers come out and Customers you know they just were kind of left to sit and I think, as COVID hit, everything now is there's competitive and so like customers, if you just let them sit At the bottom of the funnel and they're gonna go somewhere else, and so I think I think brands should care about it, because Before the cost of acquiring a customer is so low that it was like, well, why do I bother already have them? You know, why would I even bother when I could just get another one for super cheap? Now Customer acquisition cost is so high that it's like, wait, if I just invest a little bit over here, I can turn this customer into a high paying customer, potentially also getting referrals and things like that. So I think there's a shift in mindset of Looking at the customer as the beginning, the good old hub spot flywheel analogy. I think we're seeing that come into e-commerce more and more, where it's like the customer is your starting point. Invest there and they will funnel things back through the top, as opposed to dump money into the top and hope that it gets more customers.

Speaker 2: 12:00

I don't remember the second question, but yeah, that's generally, I think, where I see that trend moving. I think brands are still Relatively slow because nobody wants to Invest in a channel that isn't super easy to attribute and what I'm describing is not always super black and white. If I invest in a pool of customers, let's say my VIPs, and I give them exclusive experiences and products and Events. Right, that's money and it's sometimes You're an agency owner, like that's not always easy to show the metrics, so I think that's hard for brands necessarily to understand. But I think as time moves on and brands start to successfully roll these things out, I think that they'll see there's a ton of value there.

Speaker 2: 12:42

And then your second question I remember it absolutely matters how you roll these things out. So, like a transactional loyalty program that just gives you points when you purchase, I look at that as an incentive program and those are great and those work in certain situations, but they don't foster true loyalty because it's simply a one-way transaction. I buy more, I get more points, I spend more and the loyalty is tied to points. So the only reason I'm going to this brand is because I have points there, so I want to spend them up.

Speaker 2: 13:10

The way I think about loyalty programs is it's actually fostering like brand. It's fostering more brand identity, where people will now choose your brand over someone else because they are tied to it, whether it's emotionally or physically. And I think the way you do that is by building extremely cute, that is, by building extremely curated loyalty programs that resonate with your customers, that walk the way you'd walk, that talk the way you talk, that have benefits that align with your core values, not sort of a one-size-fits-all, which is also hard to get people to see because it's more time or work. So there's there's different things that are working against the trend, but I do think that you'll continue to see a trend into brands, and brands that are winning right now are doing that very successfully.

Speaker 1: 13:50

If I have to see one more just like random widget on the bottom left hand corner of a company website and that's the you know quote unquote loyalty program or experience, like obviously that's not going to work and you saw that, you know, just like crazy across the entire ecosystem in 2020, 2021. Even, you know, going into 2022. But then there's some brands that actually have some really well thought out loyalty programs that Engender customer attention but also give a reason to shop there versus shopping on an Amazon or shopping in store, which you know, for some of our clients, when they have distribution and all these various channels, there's inherently cannibalization across them. And especially when you're selling on Amazon, if it's, if it's a consumable for example let's say you're a coffee client Like you really have to think about what's the value prop of selling or buying from me on the DTC site versus going through Amazon.

Speaker 1: 14:49

Certain products really lend themselves well to that subscribe and save component and the free shipping. And you know, I just this morning order stuff and I got it same day on Amazon. On Amazon it's not happening with your DTC storefront. So the the strategy and thought that needs to go into these is just really greater than I think the original expectation was in in the market.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Yeah, I think it's. It's hard in a in a world where we want turnkey, point and click. That's just how we're wired. I think now Is that we want everything to sort of be like hey, plug it in and turn on claveo. I wanted to build my business like claveo. I think claveo is amazing. It's point and click, it's. You plug it into your business and boom, you see revenue instantly.

Speaker 2: 15:39

I thought that I could do that when I came to e-commerce with nifty bridge, where I was trying to create a new form of loyalty, and I realized very quickly that that is just not how it works, because if you're trying to build a system, that's that point and click. It's not going to resonate with customers. People aren't going to use it, people aren't going to buy into whatever that vision is. They're not going to go into the market. Whatever that vision is, they're not going to go to those experiences, because there's a million of them and nowadays it's about how do you stand out, how do you let your customers hear you, how do you connect like me and you're connecting on this, this podcast how do you make that connection when you're a brand that potentially has millions of customers? That's a challenge.

Speaker 1: 16:15

Yeah, yeah, the the need for software companies to enable customer success. It's continues to increase. And then I've something I've realized more and more is that you know there's there's a lot of competing priorities that are at these various brands and at the end of the day, a lot of times it's easier just to say no, like oh well, you know we'll get to this later, or you know we'll do this later, and so, especially when it's not something like an email marketing tool or an SMS marketing tool, that is an even harder sell because it's not truly a need to have. It is more of a, you know, nice to have, and selling them on the value prop around why it really isn't a nice to have and they need to be looking at it as a must to have is critically important.

Speaker 2: 17:06

Yeah, I think, if you want to know what, like I think one of the biggest examples and we talked about this when we chatted last a few weeks ago is the creator led brands. Right, they're starting with that. They're starting with community, starting with a loyalty program. Let's just call the fact that what they produce produces loyalty. They already have a loyal customer not customer but they have a loyal following. What they've produced is a really solid community and now they can sell anything. I mean we have creators that sell.

Speaker 2: 17:35

I think I saw today someone selling there was like a scandal or something about cookies someone selling cookies for really expensive, like really expensive cookies. But people will buy it because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it's a repackage, whatever it is. You know feastables I've never had a feastable but I can't imagine that it's maybe it is insanely good. But I think those creators they can create pretty much anything as long as it's decent, and they have that following of people that will buy in, whereas if you're a brand, you don't and you don't have a community. People are much more likely to switch if they don't like your product, and I think that's a great reason why you should have be focused on that.

Speaker 1: 18:14

What are you doing at Nifty Bridge in terms of, like, enabling customer success? Do you have, you know, agencies that you typically will work with? Do you have, like, an in-house customer success team? What does that look like?

Speaker 2: 18:29

Yeah, no, in-house customer success team. We're still pretty young, so my hands are very much involved in all of our customer launches, especially because you know, as our customers, when we win, we want these programs to succeed, obviously because that's our company. As far as, like, how I support our merchants, I think I try to do as much as I can in the initial phase, like I like, being involved throughout the initial ideation and through the launch. I think that's what works best, as opposed to in software traditionally, they're coming to you when they're ready to hit go. I've found that that doesn't always work as well for these things. We can obviously do it, but I think it works well when you're even considering like, hey, we're thinking about loyalty, let's talk to Nifty Bridge, let's have these conversations around. How can we enable these experiences? How can we foster that sense of community? So I think, for me, I try to get as hands-on as I can, because every single company is different, every story is different and the experiences and benefits that you want to offer need to feel curated, even if it is like we at Nifty Bridge have a box set, because every time we talk to a brand, they say, hey, we want to do more than discounts and I say, okay, great, here's like the box set, pick and choose, but let's make those feel curated in the sense that like hey, if we are going to get an exclusive product, let's make sure that exclusive product is like, really resonates with your top customers. Let's make sure that it's actually something they love. If it's early access, let's not give them early access to a product that doesn't sell out anyway, or even like. I think that's actually like.

Speaker 2: 20:11

As I say it, it sounds silly, but a lot of brands, I don't think, necessarily think about that idea of like. Let's just not slap a sticker of benefit on something if it's not a benefit to your customer. So I enjoy it. I get to be involved from an early standpoint. Obviously, not every brand we work with is super. Hey, let's curate every little thing. There's obviously some things we can do out of the box, but I think the best examples the Melbourne golfs of the world, the Dr Dabbers of the world they are ones that truly understand that this isn't something that you can just slap on. It needs to be intentional. And the upside of that, though, is when it is built, the results are really incredible, because now you're building almost like a brand within a brand. You know your loyalty program can become almost as lucrative as the product itself, which is pretty, pretty crazy.

Speaker 1: 20:58

Yeah. What are some of the metrics that you see around? Customer success, like one that's thoughtfully and successfully deployed, is retention, ltv. Are those typically the metrics that are being impacted positively based because of this?

Speaker 2: 21:19

Yeah, I think things like CLV, aov, higher referrals for referral rate is a big one, usage of benefits and activations. I think those are the key ones we look at and, to be completely honest with you, like, I think we're still trying to figure out what is the myriad of like how do you form a complete picture of, hey, your loyalty program is succeeding? And here's the 12 reasons why. I think we're still trying to figure out all those metrics and I, candidly, don't have all of them, but the big ones are the ones I mentioned Customers are spending more, they're coming back more and they're telling their friends more. I think those are the biggest three that we see.

Speaker 1: 22:04

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I feel like part of what will be interesting for these brands moving forward as they roll out these, these loaded programs, is figuring out how to be able to test into them what does and doesn't work, because a lot of the time I still see too many assumptions being made versus let's try out this particular gift or let's try out this particular incentive in a particular cohort and then see if it actually works or not. Versus let's just assume. And that translates over into a lot of other things within Ecom as well.

Speaker 1: 22:50

Not having a testing mindset or philosophy is not the way to or the path to success, and I've had brands say before oh, we'll just make the whole website different and then run it for a week and then we'll change it back and that'll be our test. That's not really how it works. And then Google Optimize is not a thing anymore, and so there's a gap in the market there for a solution that is cost effective and allows brands to test and iterate and actually be able to prove out meaningful differences, and they're statistically significant. But what's like an ideal customer size for you where it makes sense to invest in this? Because if you don't have enough customers. Obviously there's this very little reward that's going to come from it, or do you think that the framework already has to be in place before you try and scale your business?

Speaker 2: 23:46

Yeah, this is a good question. I think it's challenging because, whether nifty bridge works with you or not, that's different than if you should have something so like for us, right, we want to work with brands that already have some sort of top 15 to 20 percent of customers who love what they do. If you don't have that right, it's very hard for us to come in and monetize it right. So it's like it's almost like if you were to buy claveo with a list size of zero, right, claveo can help you get they can put a sign-up form on there. You're also paying claveo, basically what? 20 bucks? So we don't necessarily work like that. So For us, right, we want to. We typically target brands that already have some sort of you know, customer base that's excited about what they do, because what we want to do is attack that and see how can we make this move faster. How can we turn these folks who are, you know, loyal customers into, like actual brand advocates shouting the name of your brand right Now. That doesn't so I say this as that doesn't mean if you're a small brand, you shouldn't be thinking about the super intentionally, because you should.

Speaker 2: 24:49

I still think, even if you have no customers. You should find ways to get your customers involved early. So even if it's an incentive like, hey, the first 100 customers we get, you know you guys are gonna be a part of our you know, inner community or inner sanctum are like oh geez, whatever you want to call it give them some sort of like lifetime benefit, loyalty. I think what a great opportunity when you're starting a brand, to get customers in early, almost like a beta but for your D2C brand. Have them test the product, have them feel the product, make them feel like they're an owner in, in what you're doing, and then that community eventually will become the foundational piece of what will become your loyalty program.

Speaker 2: 25:31

So I say that the the answer to that is Nifty bridge. Obviously we have a target market, but I think every brand listen to this, if you know, even if you're just starting out should be thinking super intentionally about how do I build the foundational pieces of a community and of a loyalty program so that when I do scale Right, I have those pieces in place. When people love what I do, it's like they're not saying, oh, where do I go now? I love, you know I love drinks. You know districts that come sell products that they have like a bunch of umbrella Companies there is.

Speaker 1: 26:04

You know, one of the portfolio companies was a D2C brand that was recently sold.

Speaker 2: 26:10

But yeah, so okay, so, anyway. But the worst thing that can happen is somebody goes I love this brand, like I want more of it, and they have nowhere to go. So at least, even if you're just starting out, give them a SMS form like at the very least, they fill out, you get their SMS number, they're marked as VIP, you have one of them who cares.

Speaker 1: 26:27

Right, there needs to be that structure in place from the very beginning now that makes sense, and it's something that I think often goes overlooked in other channels as well to uh, you know, not having some of the basics in In place. Then it's also I've seen some storefronts where they Aren't that large yet but they still have like 70 apps and like how did? You end up with, you know, 70 different apps already, so not everything is truly needed. To begin with. There's an ability to sort of slow roll it.

Speaker 2: 27:02

What about the wheel? What about the wheel they need? They need the wheel, the spin, to win.

Speaker 1: 27:08

This so that I hate that thing, but it works. Yeah, no, it, definitely it's.

Speaker 2: 27:13

It's so annoying, I don't that's no shade to any brands using the spin to wheel, it definitely works. I just think it's funny because, like it's like this one little app on every store when, like even big brands, I'll see like a little spin to wheel, spin to win wheel.

Speaker 1: 27:25

So well, I mean, if they are using a spin to win, they're probably, you know, I have pretty great results from it because anytime we've tested it, the spin to win wins. Otherwise, like I would never use it. And I still know people who refuse to use it for their brand, even though they know it performs better, which to me is crazy, like no. You can't be a different company if you would really get data results and you're like, oh no, like this is no, I just don't like it though.

Speaker 2: 27:56

I I can understand some, I think some brands I I can understand it If they feel like it cheapens the feel of their company, like if they're super intentional about like I don't want any discounts, I don't want, I want everything to be this sort of. You know, I get that. But a lot of the brands I think that have a problem with it Are going and doing the same thing just on the in the next step. So it's so. I don't know. I think for some brands definitely make sense, but other brands they're like oh no, no, no, we're not. You know, that's sort of transactional. We don't do that, we don't believe in that. But then the very next page it's like sign up for, you know, give us your SMS number so we can. You know it's like okay, come on, it's the same thing.

Speaker 1: 28:35

We're all playing the same. You gotta make a choice at some point. What do you think? The one last question I have for you is around community, because I've been hearing more and more about you know brands that have a community, or you know a Facebook group or whatever it may be, and for me, the vast majority of them don't actually have a community, but everybody loves to talk about having a community. Yeah, what are some of the ways that you know loyalty? You know VIP programs can elicit stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 29:11

Yeah, I personally I'm not. I know I've said community a whole bunch because it is. It's just such a huge term, though, that I Don't necessarily like it that much because it gets overused. I think when it's used appropriately I think it's great, but I think when you slap the term on community on any group of people I don't know that that's the case either like if you Bring together a hundred people, put them in a room and call them a community of people, that's not necessarily true. Like I think there's an element of community that's tied to interests or tied to shared values or shared love for something, and that's the.

Speaker 2: 29:42

The key piece is that there's a connection between those people. That's what makes a community. So I think when you're thinking about building community, it's how do you Allow for people to connect with each other or connect with the brand? How do you build those connections? Because that's ultimately what makes up a community is you can have a community of one person If there's a connection between that person and the brand. So, to answer your question, I think loyalty programs right. I think about it as all of the connections that you can facilitate with your customers that build that sense of community, and a lot of the times, connections are not discounts. When somebody goes to check out and gets a 20% discount, I don't necessarily know that you can form a community around a shared passion for 20% Actually, I say that you probably can, so I shouldn't say that, but I think true community is formed from connections that are deeper than that. So a connection like an event is amazing.

Speaker 2: 30:39

We were out, I was out in in LA, for one of the Melbourne golf events and on their hats it says it says for golf lovers and health seekers, and really what they've done is they bring people together that have a shared connection for golf and health and they let them meet each other, they let them experience each other and that's really what drives community is like that, that shared experience. So it shouldn't just be a discount, it should be hey, are there events that we can have? Hey, is there a place where these people can go and chat with each other, like we're now doing? We're building this, basically an API where we can plug a chat like a curated, gated chat for your top customer within your app or within your store. There's the ability to Take your community and put them put like an Apple pass where then they can go to different events and scan in and feel like, hey, that's a connection point. Every time I scan that's connection with someone.

Speaker 2: 31:35

So I think that's where loyalty programs can really step in is finding out. How can I facilitate these connections between the brand and the customer and the customer and the customer as much as possible? How can I track that? I think those are the best types of software to use. I don't know if it's kind of over the place, but yeah, that's what we try to focus on is connections.

Speaker 1: 31:58

No, that makes sense and it is a broad term. So you know, there's there's a couple of those buzzwords that foot around e-commerce that I think are Are overused for sure, and to your point too, brandon.

Speaker 2: 32:11

I think you said this best when we spoke, but it was. You mentioned, like, how important the product is, and so I think that's the other thing is don't go to a loyalty program With the expectation of, like these guys are gonna change your business. They're not. What we're doing is we're unearthing, you know, people that don't have as big of a voice as they want, and what you're doing we're unearthing. Kind of that like sentiment of like I love what you're doing, I want more of it. Like all we're doing is capturing that in a bottle, giving them a place to live, building experiences and connections for you, but if you don't have a product, you know you're not going to be able to do that. So if you don't have a product that facilitates that, right. If you don't have an amazing product or an amazing brand, um, you know, don't, don't try and Find, you know, the genie in the bottle, right. When it comes to loyalty, like, focus on the things that matter if you don't have the secret sauce.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so one last question I have for you, going into black friday, cyber monday, obviously too late to you know set up a loyalty program and creative VIP experience. But what are some of the things that brands should be doing or or need to do to? Still, you know, generates the results that you could expect from you know doing something like that.

Speaker 2: 33:27

Yeah, um, yeah, definitely don't try and launch a loyalty program in two weeks, um, but what are some things they could do? Well, I think the the easiest thing you can do is set up a foundation for a program and for a community and that's just like the most basic form, an email list or an sms list, like at least, and I think most brands are doing this. So, um, but at least have some place where, after they buy from you for the first time, or after they buy from you, if you haven't done this already is let them know that, like, you want that, like this is just the beginning, like I have some sort of welcome email that isn't just introducing them to the product, because I see a lot of welcome series flows. I work to claveo. Welcome series are great, but introduce them to like what you stand for, who you are like, how do you walk, how do you talk. Get them excited about that. Yes, the product is the foundation, but also let them know that there's more than a product. Tell them what you believe and, if you're a founder, led brand, share on that founder experience share and Whatever it is that led you to create it. Get them to buy into that sense of like hey, wow, like I don't just love your like apparel for athletes. I love the fact that you guys started out of a basement and your goal was to like, really help athletes that were underdogs, that had a chip on their shoulder, tell that story and then get them to be a part of some sort of whether it's an sms list or an email list to start with Um and frame it around like, hey, this is our vip program or hey, this is our community. We want you to be a part of it.

Speaker 2: 34:55

As far as, like, where the community lives, to start, it's tough. I mean, facebook is is is great, but it's it. It can be challenging for brands because I know, not not everybody's on facebook or not everybody's on instagram, um, so I would encourage them to then follow you on whatever socials you you live on Um and have that. Sit there until you can actually go out and say, hey, for all the people we said that you know, hop on this journey with us. We now have a place for you to live, we now have Experiences and events and things you can go to, and that's where you can start to supercharge it. But I would say, at the very beginning. At least just have some sort of way that you're letting people know. Hey, if you want more, you know, do you want to be involved in what we're doing here? Here's a way, here's somewhere you can go.

Speaker 1: 35:39

Yeah, at the very least having some of the basic retention stuff set up in place to maximize, you know, all those new customers that you're going to be acquiring. And it's typically a lower, you know, margin period for brands because of all the discounts are getting thrown around too, mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: 35:53

Yeah, and not making it just about hey, you know, we want to sell you more stuff in six months, right, it's not. I see that a lot where it's like, hey, you know, stay up to date for the latest Drops, and it's great, but I feel like we can do better at helping brands message around. Yes, we're gonna try and sell you more product in the future, but really what we want is for you to become more active in what we're doing. You know, feedback, do you love, do you like this? Share some, share some content. Ugc, invite them, send the invitation, and not many brands today are doing that. Honestly, like I was surprised, not many brands are asking for feedback. So you know, I think that's where you start is just like change your mindset a little bit.

Speaker 1: 36:39

Yeah, and something I talk about a lot is, you know, just like talk to your, to your customers. Now, you know like actually talk. I have a I don't know anywhere between a. You know Three to five calls, uh, you know a week, a month, with your top and worst customers and see, you know what are we doing well, what are we not doing well, and you'll be shocked at how much valuable feedback you can get by doing something like that.

Speaker 2: 37:08

That's really good. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1: 37:11

Especially for, like you know, the newer startups or, you know, more founder led brands. It's a great way to be able to, you know, help shape the way that you're thinking about structuring your, your business, moving forward.

Speaker 2: 37:25

Yeah, I think Go ahead, no, go ahead. I was just gonna say it's easy to like as a founder, it's easy to get wrapped up and like I'm not growing fast enough, I don't have enough customers. I appreciate and I've had to learn this but like, appreciate where you're at because you have time. Go spend it with your customers, get to know them deeply, build with them. You know the growth will come if you're doing things the right way.

Speaker 2: 37:52

But if you have, you know if you're in a season of like hey, things are slow, or black Friday, our customers, I, you know things are kind of your trudging through mud, it feels like Great. Use that time of like, kind of maybe it's not stagnation, but like go talk to your customers. That's actually a great season to be in because you can really focus on Building. Whenever that growth comes next, you want to make sure that the product is exactly where it needs to be, that you're, you're talking about your product in the exact way it needs to go to market. So I think, as a founder, enjoy that. I've had to learn this, but enjoy those moments of having time where you can get to know your customers deeper.

Speaker 1: 38:25

Yeah, and those are some of the most fun parts, because you know, all I do is hot from call to call now and Really I forget to do any real work except, like on the weekends. So the I miss the days of just getting to sit there for eight hours and working without getting bothered nonstop by. You know X problem or whatever else is going on, but that's, that's neither here or there. But thank you so much for joining us. Before we hop off, can you let everybody know where they could, you know, find you online or getting contact with?

Speaker 2: 38:55

Yeah, niftybridgecom, if you want to take a look at what we're working on. We've got a new website coming soon, so maybe don't check it out just yet. And then on LinkedIn, you can always find me. I try to Get back to most things. I think, brandon, you mentioned LinkedIn is kind of a nightmare with the DMs, but Instagram actually, I is a little bit leaner, cleaner of a place too, if you want to hit yeah, but always down to talk e-commerce loyalty. We have a podcast as well. So, yeah, get in touch. And thanks for Brandon. Thanks so much for having me, it was fun.

Speaker 1: 39:28

Awesome. Thanks for coming on. It's always. This is Brandon Morosa. You can find me at brandonmorosacom or electric marketingcom, and we'll see you next time.