Navigating Business Growth and AI Impact with Jess Cervellon - 88

Brandon Amoroso sits down with Jess Cervellon, former VP of Customer Experience at Feastables and a fractional CMO for various eCommerce businesses.

Jess Cervellon takes us on a thrilling journey through her early days at Feastables, a startup that experienced remarkable growth. She shares the excitement of launching a business, adapting strategies, and the importance of flexibility in scaling.

Join us as we explore the challenges of building brand communities without a prominent figurehead and uncover strategies for engaging audiences across various platforms. Jess reveals the secrets behind creating captivating content and using gamification in email and SMS marketing.

We also delve into the power of a founder's social presence and brand storytelling, emphasizing the impact of personal connections in successful brands. Discover the world of interactive emails and the intricacies of transitioning from e-commerce to retail while maintaining control over the customer journey and data.

Throughout the episode, Jess and Brandon share invaluable insights on brand building, AI-generated content, and the significance of nurturing customer relationships for long-term success. Tune in to stay ahead in the ever-evolving landscape of entrepreneurship and eCommerce!

Timestamps:

👋 Meet Jess Cervellon and Her Background (00:00:02)

🚀 Jess's Startup Journey as Employee #4 at Feastables (00:01:10)

🎢 The Rollercoaster Ride of a Startup (00:01:24)

🔄 Pivoting Strategies: Key to Success (00:02:06)

🤹‍♂️ The Art of Adaptability in Business (00:03:26)

👩‍💼 From Employee to Fractional CMO (00:06:13)

📚 Balancing Specialization and Diverse Challenges (00:07:59)

👥 Building a Brand Community without a Figurehead (00:11:07)

🏰 Community Building Strategies: Discord & Interactive Emails (00:12:28)

🗣️ Founder's Social Presence and Brand Story (00:14:40)

💬 Connecting with Consumers through Founder Stories (00:15:00)

🌟 "Fly by Jing" Brand Storytelling Example (00:15:20)

💌 Interactive Emails and Software Tools (00:17:22)

📱 The Two-Way Nature of SMS Marketing (00:18:24)

🏬 Transitioning from E-commerce to Retail Challenges (00:20:16)

📊 Gathering Customer Data and Brand Control (00:21:36)

📜 Marketing in Regulated Industries (00:24:30)

⚖️ Lawyers' Use of Chad GPT (00:25:26)

🌐 Potential Impact of AI in Business (00:25:45)

✍️ AI-Generated Content and Copywriting (00:26:5)

🤖 Ethical Concerns about AI (00:27:23)

🗣️ AI in Voice Mimicry (00:28:28)

🤝 AI in Negotiation (00:29:12)

🛒 AI's Influence on Customer Experience (00:32:56)

📈 Challenges in Marketing Analytics (00:34:17)

📊 The Need for Comprehensive Analytics Tools (00:35:23)

🌐 Community Building and Brand Storytelling (00:37:55)

Jess Cervellon

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jess-cervellon/

Website - https://jesscervellon.com/

Brandon Amoroso:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/

Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/

X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

I'm Brandon Amoroso and this is the D2Z podcast Building and growing your business from a Gen Z perspective. Hey, everyone thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast about using the Gen Z mindset to grow your business. I'm Gen Z entrepreneur Brandon Amoroso, founder and president of Retention as a Service Agency Electric, and today I'm talking with Jess Servian, former VP of Customer Experience at Feastables and now a fractional CMO for a variety of e-commerce businesses. Thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 2: 0:38

Thanks for having me, brandon. Yeah, so, as Brandon said, I previously was the former VP of Customer Experience at Feastables. I started that company. I was employee four, so very well versed in like the creator world as well as like Gen Z businesses or, I'm sorry, audiences and now I'm just helping other brands thrive as a fractional CMO and taking all of those learnings and making sure other people can build their businesses.

Speaker 1: 1:10

What was it like being a part of company as employee number four and then going through the substantial growth that they've had since inception?

Speaker 2: 1:24

Yeah, the best way to describe it would be roller coaster, but the most exhilarating roller coaster ever. There's lots of like that. You know, when you're on a roller coaster and you're like launching and you're going up, up, up, and you're like, oh God, anticipation, and then you drop and then you're like, ah, this is amazing. And then it's like constant like up, up, up, drop, not dropping a bad way, just like dropping, like excitement. Yeah, and yeah, it was really honestly.

Speaker 2: 1:50

It was really crazy because, like to be honest with you, like myself and the CEO and the CEO, that was a part of it too and that there's because beginning stages and even our, our other, our CMO, like we didn't know what we didn't know, like we knew what we knew about Mr Beast and we knew and like for me, like I'm an experienced girl, so like I'm looking at socials, I'm looking at community, I'm like researching the customer and like all these things, and I'm making like assumptions based off of like what we think we know about this customer.

Speaker 2: 2:21

And then we just had to like make those assumptions, launch and quickly pivot. And it was constantly like pivoting plans on a frequent basis. But it was that pivoting of plans on a frequent basis is like, honestly, what helped us grow so rapidly and so largely? You know, you think one thing works and then you realize another thing, like, for instance, launching with dark chocolate opposed to milk chocolate. Like those kids don't like dark chocolate, so we like quickly pivoted, and like I wouldn't say pivoted, but like we quickly added additional skews to the business right, like based on, like what we were learning about them. So like it's just little things like that.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Yeah, that that like ability to pivot rather quickly, I feel like is something that separates some of the more successful brands from those that aren't, but I feel like a lot of it is engendered by, you know, the founding team and the culture that's created at the organization. Yeah, because there's, you know, places that don't necessarily reward that or look at that as a good thing.

Speaker 2: 3:26

Yeah, I mean just to like piggyback on like what you're saying, like to be honest with you, since now I like I'm because even before I had departed from feast wells, like I was working in like a lot of like fractional work and help in like consulting and advising other brands as well and what I do notice is that a lot of people do like can you know, do the things of like pivoting and like understanding, like okay, maybe this works, but then like we have to change it in six months and like can easily be flexible and adaptable.

Speaker 2: 3:54

But you would be really surprised by like the, the operators and founders out there that like are not flexible and adaptable, which is really surprising to me because I'm just like you know. I just sometimes think like you can't, like not everything is going to go to plan. You might have this go to market strategy or you might have this revamp strategy and what you think you know is not always going to work, and then like to keep hammering at it and spending the money on like this is going to go, this is going to work. I'm like my dudes, let's, let's back up a second. Let's, let's realize there's a bit bit and like and I've I've actually have run across like a lot of founders who were just like not willing to accept that.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Yeah, no, I mean on the agency side we've definitely had to work through some of that for, for better or worse, where you know maybe something isn't working but there's just a continual desire to keep pushing and, if you like, you know, if you push hard enough maybe it'll work. But you know that's that's not necessarily typically how it goes.

Speaker 2: 4:58

Right, I mean absolutely, and I think even from like an agency perspective. I think we can both share in this, like from an agency, or even fractional or whatever it is. Sometimes it's like you have a client and you can say like, okay, this is the best for your business, and I'm, and I'm, here's my expertise, here's the case studies, but then sometimes, like they just don't want to listen to you either.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yes, that is. You know, it's a. It's a weird dynamic because in other cases, um, like we've had in the past, where maybe we have a really great strategy or it's, you know, it's totally right, but it's not being presented in as confident enough of a manner, or it's almost being posed as like a, you know, like a question, but what the client's ultimately paying for is like expertise and guidance and advice. Um, and so that's been like a, you know, a learning process, you know, for myself when we first started, but also for educating and training the team on how to just handle, you know, the delicate client relationship balance. Yeah, being forceful, not being, you know, too forceful, uh, respecting their vision and the fact that it's their, like their, their baby, almost uh, well, depending on who you're working with and what size of company, but then still being able to push through your own like ideas and insights.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, like going into like the consulting side of things versus like being like an FTE at a company you know, what are you most excited for?

Speaker 1: 6:24

to not be an FTE anymore.

Speaker 2: 6:26

Um, I don't know if it's necessarily like because I don't want this to sound negative at all but like I'm just a very community driven person and a very like empathetic leader, Um, and so I really like helping people, like a lot. And I think that when you are, you know an FTE and like you're working full time for you know a company, you only like you get so wrapped up into those projects and it's really fun, like I'm not saying it's not fun, right, you get wrapped up into like those projects and those mindsets and like that, that particular thing, right. But what I'm and like you know and that works for some people, but what I'm really excited about is like honestly helping brands, like multiple different types of brands and, um, and always every day being a challenge. You know, like I think sometimes as you scale a company, um, as you scale a company and I say this all the time like you might walk into the company and you're like, okay, type, um, I built this company, right, and you're like juggling like 50 different plates, uh, or tasks and all of these things, and then you start bringing in more and more people and you hand off those tasks. And you hand off those tasks so you can go build other towers right, like other other challenges and other things, right.

Speaker 2: 7:43

But as you scale a business and when you become, you know, maybe not like the zero to 50 miles per hour and like more of the 50 miles per hour to a hundred you become so specialized in your role that you might not be be doing things that are like outside of your general daily tasks. Right, and so and I and I've I mean Feastables is actually like my fifth startup, so I've worked at plenty of startups to like realize like this is, like this is a trend as you scale a brand or a company and um, so I think like the biggest thing that I'm excited about is like not just being specialized in one thing and being able to specialize in a multitude of different things and to constantly live in like a challenging environment while helping other people build their brand and their successes.

Speaker 1: 8:29

And what are some of the things that you know from a end product standpoint or like when you're engaging with a brand. What is your like? What are you typically engaging with them on? Is it more so? Brand strategy Is it more tactical with? You know, e-commerce optimization, is it sort of just everything and you help them fill in all the pieces.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Yeah, it honestly just really depends. I mean like, first and foremost, like I'm in a customer experience and like brand experience type of person, so like and I don't mean that from like a support perspective, like yes, the support is like a piece of it, but it's like the community side, the brand marketing side, like how do you like market your product to the masses, how do you get people to like you know, not only aware, but retain them, all of that right. And so I think, first and foremost is like definitely a piece of like the brand's marketing and the brand experience building. Like taking companies of like I have this idea, but like one of my roles is fractional CMO and like they have the idea and it's like on the market and it's really dope, but now we need to go build the awareness channels. So it's like paid and social media and like the community building things right.

Speaker 2: 9:34

And then there's other other brands that I'm doing just straight email marketing, because I love designing stuff, like I love a good retention strategy, I love a good life cycle strategy, right, and so like there's like there's pieces of that. So it's kind of like a mixed bag in a way of like not just you know the overall. You know performance marketing and the growth marketing, but it's also a little bit of the retention and life cycle and really at the heart of it all is about brand experience and really developing out like that brand story and that that brand like want from the customer right, like that's really like the things that I love to do. So, to answer your question, in the short version, it's strategy and sometimes it's tact.

Speaker 1: 10:21

I think a lot of times brands go to the tactics before they figure out the strategy. Yeah, which isn't a good thing either.

Speaker 2: 10:30

Yeah, I know I think that goes back to like the pivoting right. You know, you're like you're doing like the tactics and you're like, ok, this is working, but like why am I not getting like the ROI or like the metrics on this? And then it's like, well, you've got to pivot your strategy. Your strategy wasn't just like an A B thing. Sometimes you got to go all the way to Z. You know.

Speaker 1: 10:49

You mentioned community and you know, obviously Feast of Walls has a massive you know, personality, social influence presence in Mr Beast. What's it like building community for a brand that doesn't have that? You know, that person with the audience.

Speaker 2: 11:07

Yeah, I think, first and foremost, like it comes down to, obviously, the awareness play, and I don't mean just like paid ads, like I mean it's it's building out your social channels, like Instagram as much as, like people hate the algorithm. Instagram is such like a place we have to be right. Tiktok is another place, you know. So it's like really building out like that social media strategy. But it's not just OK, I'm going to put it out, the content and I'm going to post consistently. It's also about being like engaging. It's about like being in, being in the comment sections, being in the DMs, also going to other brands that might be like minded or might have a like minded audience, and like commenting and being engaging in those past like think like Wendy's and Slim Jim, because they do a really good job at like it's not really just a social media strategy that they're doing, they're building community and they're building engagement. So it's like thinking like the Slim Jim and Wendy's people and like being in the comment section and, like you know, meeting your customer where they are. And then, on the other side of it, too, is like being in forums too, like at festivals. We our audience was in discord, so, like we launched with a discord. We we launched with like this and I'm sure a lot of people know, but if you don't know, discord is kind of like a Slack Meeks forum type of place, right, and it's a really like good community for like a lot of gamers. But like Gen Z or if you have like any sort of like niche hobby, it's like kind of like me to red it, but anyway. So my point is that was like we built at festivals, like we knew our audience was in this channel. So we immediately built this channel and we had, I think when we launched maybe we had like 10,000 people in in the discord, something like crazy, it like group really rapidly and then it like has doubled since then. But you know, it's building like these, these avenues for your audience to not only like talk about your product, necessarily, but also to kind of maybe like have some sort of gamification, maybe have some sort of community with like amongst each other that have like that, have like-minded interest. It's not all about, you know, being in Facebook or in the DM section. Sometimes it's like creating that space for for your audience. And then lastly sorry, I'll be like rambled a little bit but like lastly the other, like another piece of building community, and I think this is like a little bit missed.

Speaker 2: 13:38

But it is like email and SMS. Email and SMS don't always have to be a sales channel. They could just be a general engagement channel where you're like literally maybe sending a quiz to your customer or your like festivals does a really good job with this. Like we created interactive emails to get clicks right, like and that and like people anticipate that, people love that, like, so people are like clicking through these emails and doing these like really fun things. But we also launched with an SMS channel. Our text code was 69 420. So, yeah, so it was 68 420. But like we weren't just using that. That channel is like Bogo deals, like buy one, get one free, right. It was like hey, we were sending messages like are you up? Like let's have like a two way conversation. I think that when you think of community, it's like yes, it's social, but there's also that whole email and SMS side too that you can like easily build your community without having to go through a full on social media strategy.

Speaker 1: 14:40

Got it. No, that's all. That's all helpful, and I think the brands that have been most successfully I've seen are the ones that have the founders who are willing to like step out there and create that social presence or at least be, you know, present on the website and in the story, because it feels like, you know, consumers are shopping and resonating more with individuals themselves than necessarily the brand. It's not like it's Nike or Adidas or something where they have that brand equity over the last 50 years. If you're launching in that new business, people are more so connecting and resonating to like the founder and their story than you know the made up brand name that they've never even heard of before.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Yeah, no, absolutely. One more thing that I was going to say is like I think a brand that does a really good job with like developing out that brand story and like bringing their customer along with like that founder brand story is fly by Jing. They do a lot of content, like even on just their website, of like telling their story and like kind of like building like that community of like this is why you want to purchase from us, right, and I think I think if you think about it in like those terms you know I'm trying to think of another one, but yeah, that's the first, that's the last one that goes to my mind for now there's plenty of them, but I was like I feel like a lot of the Asian food and drink companies do a good job, like any is very founder led.

Speaker 1: 16:08

There's the water company that I'm blanking on the name of, like Sanjo or something.

Speaker 2: 16:13

Sanjo. Yeah, yeah, sanjo is a good one too.

Speaker 1: 16:16

All very boxy, etc.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, but I think that's so important, like that founder stories, like the basis of where you should start, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:27

Like.

Speaker 2: 16:28

I think it's if you're a new brand and you're coming out and you're like, and nobody's ever seen you before, right, like, I don't know, I'm like this cup, right, nobody's ever seen. Well, this is a brunette, but pretend it's not a brunette. But like there's this cup, right, and like nobody's ever seen me in. Like the market is competitive because Brumay and Stanley are out there. Right, like, why, like sharing that story about why you're launching and why your product is like not only like okay, you're, my product is so better, but like creating that storyline of like your entire brand, like the reason you're, you made this change and you've got this on the market is going to have more weight than in. If I was just like launching with like a general cup and I sold it into Target, you know.

Speaker 1: 17:12

Yeah, what you mentioned actually and I have another question for you based off what you just said, but you mentioned interactive emails what software were you using for?

Speaker 2: 17:20

that Spellbound, spellbound, um, yeah, they, uh, they like, utilize like or like in Klaviyo and other tools and stuff and like um, you can do some really fun stuff with it. So shout out to Spellbound. But I also think that, like that interactivity, besides like just Spellbound to, though, like you can create, like if I look at just email and maybe you don't want to add another tool, right, you can create some sort of like flow process of um and like and I mean granted, this is like super scrappy, okay Like some sort of flow process of like, um linking to, like a quiz, or even like, hey, our, our customer support team answers back. Right, like you know, you can create like, kind of like those two way interactive, like conversations in a very scrappy way, with or without that tool, setting Um. The same thing with SMS. Like you can create flows that like respond back based on like what a person um answers with.

Speaker 1: 18:24

Yeah, the two way nature of SMS is critical to having a successful program and you know there's still some brands that will text me and I'll reply. And it's like go email us to talk to us more than why the hell are you texting me?

Speaker 2: 18:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:42

That's crazy, yeah, and I think and I think you actually being up a really good point I think that's like the biggest thing to remember is like if you're going to create these journeys for your customer, make sure your journey is not friction. So like what Brandon was describing is that I texted. I texted back and then they were like, oh, if you have an inquiry, like email back, well, I'm like I'm not going to do that, like that sounds lame. Like now you're adding friction to the journey. So like if you're putting something out there and you're trying to develop a two way conversation, like keep it in that channel as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 19:17

Yeah, I, that's my. One of my biggest pet peeves is is that um?

Speaker 2: 19:22

yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:24

Going into retail you are you typically working at brands that have an e-com and retail presence, or more so e-com?

Speaker 2: 19:34

Um, I mean, listen, like Fiswolds is like both e-com and retail, so like I have to plan, have experience in it and like that omni channel approach Um definitely, but where, like I really like to thrive is like honestly building that brand equity and that brand awareness and like building a brand from like in in the e-com space. Then you go into Amazon and then you go into like retail. I do I actually do have a couple of like um hydration companies that I work with that are in um target and Walmart Um, and we've done some like interesting things, um with gamification and like some marketing plays with them that have incorporated both e-commerce as well as um the retail channels.

Speaker 1: 20:15

Got it? Yeah, it's always. That's a world that I don't really have to deal with. As the retail side of things Um, and it's like, do you go for retail sooner rather than later, or is it easier slash better if you wait until you have more econ penetration? So the product demand is sort of already obvious and it's not as scientific as, uh, you know as e-commerce where you have very direct like inputs and outputs.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Yeah, I mean listen, at the end of the day, I think it's all revenue focused, right, like retail's going to drive retail's going to drive awareness for you.

Speaker 2: 20:54

Retail's going to also, if you know, if you're a good spot in the shelves and like all this stuff and like good advertising about it is going to uh, going to give you, um, good revenue, right, but I think what happens in like and this and this is my own opinion, okay, this is just my opinion, so any of the listeners out there Okay, um, I think that if you have a brand, that's just like coming onto the market and like, let's say, you're developing out that brand story, you're trying to get that brand equity, that awareness, all of those things Controlling it in the e-commerce environment first is going to help you build it. Like, exactly what you were saying is that you know it's going to help you build it so that when you go onto the shelves, you're going to have a little bit of more of an awareness. And the thing is in the. You have to remember. It's like, okay, you're like, okay, sick, I'm an e-commerce brand. Oh, sick, like a retailer wants to pick me up, like that's really tight.

Speaker 2: 21:45

But one of the things that you lose is you don't really get to talk to your customer anymore. So if you don't have good channels set up for like R&D or like information about, like, your, your household penetration, or like repeat purchases, like at retail, you're going like, you're going to lose that information. And then how are you going to like, innovate your product even further, right, how are you going to continue to improve? So it's like I think you have to think through and I'm not saying like it's good or bad, right, I'm just thinking if you're an e-commerce brand and you're like, and you're thinking about a retail channel, you have to think about the overall journey for your customer. So how are you going to go into retail and then bring them back to your website so they can still get your brand story, so they can like, maybe make a bundle purchase or make more purchases and be more aware of like other SKUs you have available and also get it back into your list? It's like it's never ending cycle of first party data.

Speaker 2: 22:42

You know, and I mean, one of the things that I did, or we did at Feastable's and I did specifically, is that every bar had a QR code on it and it used to be like it was just a basic QR, like, just like a list bill thing, and I I decided to be a little bit scrappy, like when we went into Walmart because we were losing so much information.

Speaker 2: 23:03

We had to go and purchase a lot of like info right From like these these companies, right, these information companies and and I was just like, okay, well, how can I talk to our customer in like the most scrappy way? And so, behind the QR code, I created a quiz and I just used type form and I just wanted to test out how many of our purchasers were actually in retail versus D to C. And when I found was the respondents of this survey, that was just like asking about like their shelf experience, their in-store experience, like whatever it was, 80% of the people that responded were actually from Walmart. So so, like that's how, like I was able to like bring it back right, like bring it back of like understanding our customer. One thing you have to know I'm not a legal person is data privacy. So like, just because somebody responds to your survey does not mean they are opted into your list, okay, so you want to opt them in.

Speaker 2: 23:59

You better make sure you have an opt-in question with the right compliance language. Do not, do not come after me, lawyers.

Speaker 1: 24:05

All the legal stuff always has to ruin all the fun.

Speaker 2: 24:09

As always, for a marketer right.

Speaker 1: 24:12

Especially when you know you're dealing with, like alcohol in our case, there's like a whole host of other rules and regulations that have to be followed and it's just crazy. There's a lot of, there's a lot of red tape, so it can be pretty restrictive from like a marketing standpoint.

Speaker 2: 24:30

Yeah, no, I bet I mean like y'all and any sort of like CBD, any sort of like hemp products, marijuana, like any of that. I know I'm just saying the same, the same thing hemp, cbd, marijuana but like anything that's like regulated, like that is just like it can be fun, but it's like also no fun at the same time.

Speaker 1: 24:54

Yeah well, it's not like spinning up a website to sell shoes or something. There's so much more complexity that goes into it. So the barriers to entry are higher, which is a good thing, but it also can be a pain sometimes too.

Speaker 2: 25:05

Right right, but listen. That's the fun part, though, too. Yes, you know like okay, I see you red tape how many of us through you with the guidance of legal, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't forget your legal team. Shout out to the lawyers.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Yeah, you know I was completely unrelated to anything that we're talking about, but of all the lawyers I know, like chat, gpt is fascinating because they're they're all abusing the hot of it and it's like it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of years.

Speaker 2: 25:45

Yeah, because I mean yeah, go ahead, so sorry.

Speaker 1: 25:52

No, it's just, it's just going to be interesting to see what happens. I think it'll be, you know, good in the long run If people who are starting like there's a lot of costs to starting a new business, if, with all the you know, the red tape, all the documents that have to be filed, the contracts that have to get set up, etc, etc. If you could leverage AI or there's some, like you know, sort of uniform, just like how Y Combinator has, like your standard safe document that you can download and use, that you don't have to pay a lawyer to. You know, get that going when you're early on in the startup phase of your business. I think it'll be, you know, good in the long run for opening up more opportunities for people to be able to start their own business and things like that.

Speaker 2: 26:31

You know absolutely, I think, like even from like that standpoint, but also you know images and you know copy and like all, like all the things that, like I don't want to say AI is coming for anybody's job, because I feel like I will get burned at the stake for this, but I don't think it's coming for anybody's job. Okay, I just think that, like it is making people better.

Speaker 1: 26:55

Significantly more productive. The AI photo stuff is pretty cool, though, where you can take like one photo and then cycle in and out a bunch of different. You know product colors or people even.

Speaker 2: 27:07

Yeah, yeah, oh man, it's insane, like it's an absolutely insane world. I mean, then you kind of like it is an insane world, but then I think, like what's going to be really interesting is like how we not necessarily regulate it, but like when we think about the ethics of it all you know.

Speaker 1: 27:30

I was reading an article like when does an image stop being an image because you've doctored it up in so many different ways?

Speaker 2: 27:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, like literally the other day I am was doing a happy hour, I'm like planning a happy hour event and.

Speaker 2: 27:48

I like needed an image of like an armadillo, and I was like able to go in, be like armadillo doing this right, like, and anyway, it was just like. It's just so crazy. But I think what's going to be really interesting, though, is like the ethics piece of it, because there's also like voice AI, like having you seen like those like software tools where like people are, you know, taking celebrity voices and using that like I was watching a TikTok just the other day, somebody like took Mr Beast's voice and made an order with McDonald's for like a hundred burgers.

Speaker 1: 28:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:28

And I mean like great generally, like super sounds like him. But it definitely sounded like him and it like said nobody like on the other end is going to be able to like distinguish, you know.

Speaker 1: 28:39

I listened to a AI, like voice software, negotiate with a collections company on behalf of a customer, pretending to be you know that person that was in collections, and it was wild, like you know the back and forth. There is almost even like agitation in the voice of the AI towards the end of it, and then ultimately they like were able to get the you know the collection amount down significantly. Yeah, like, how do you even know if you're talking to a real person anymore at a certain point?

Speaker 2: 29:16

Dude, dude, I know I think there was like an Instagram, I think it was air HQ doing like a AI sales call, right, and like the person on the other line was getting agitated and then, like the AI voice was like recognizing that agitation and and then would respond back and be like listen, like I completely understand, like this or that, but I'm not, I'm just trying to help you, whatever right. And then it was like it was a whole advertisement about how this AI voice like turned somebody around, like kept rebuttling, kept rebuttling and turned them around to like actually like set up the demo call.

Speaker 1: 29:57

That's that's. I feel like it's just a start, though, like it's crazy how much broader it can go. What are some of the like I mean things that you're using it for specifically within, within ecommerce?

Speaker 2: 30:11

I think chat GBT when it comes to copy. Like I'm such a and this is probably like a little bit of like a laziness, I'll be honest with you but like I operate only on like 110% all the time. So like meaning, like I'm super like a perfectionist, right, and so it's like if I'm doing a post or if I'm like building copy for like a PDP right and I run into like writer's block, I'll go, I'll turn to chat to help me with like here's the description of this or can you make this better? Like maybe I'll, like you all have like the basics of what I want to like write about, and then I have the have it, make it better. And then like I don't think it's a hundred percent I'm going to be honest with you because like I think that you it doesn't have all of the personality and it doesn't learn the true personality, but I think what it does help you with when it comes to copy is like all right, what is like elongating a paragraph or a sentence, right, like how can I make this a little bit better? And then so it's like helpful in those terms.

Speaker 2: 31:14

I think that's just like the biggest thing that I use it for is like mostly just chat GPT, and then also, and then I can do this in chat to be T2, but like sometimes coding right, like I don't, when I'm like setting I wouldn't say setting up a Shopify site like, because I don't do that, but I'll like do maintenance things right, and a lot of times like maybe there's like liquid code that I need to do for an image or a form or something on a website, right, and maybe I don't know HTML like the back of my hand, like it used to be the day.

Speaker 2: 31:47

Gone are the days where I would open a book and like figure it out. I can go to chat GPT and like get coding dev code for to like be able to like manipulate liquid Shopify code, so copy code. And then, lastly, I make a lot of like very scrappy reports when it comes to like marketing analytics or CX analytics or any of the like, anything where we want to like get a scope of like where the business is and like and you have like tools that live in all these different places. So I'll utilize chat GPT for like formula stuff too.

Speaker 1: 32:24

Got it Okay, look at me.

Speaker 2: 32:26

Not taking my job, though.

Speaker 1: 32:28

Not yet. Not yet Still far away from that. I feel like there's a lot that could be done, though, with AI and, you know, personalization of the customer experience, because all these platforms like claveo, for example, have so much data and it feels like we're doing so much still that's manual in terms of choosing the segments, choosing, you know, send times, choosing the actual copy and creative that does get sent to those segments, versus them telling the brand. You know Brandon signed up for 30 other claveo lists and this is the type of stuff that he responds to best. We're going to just take over from here, because we know he needs to get, you know, x, y and Z email at these times after his first purchase to be most likely to place that second order, whereas still today we're, you know, we're making a lot of assumptions and doing tests, but it's testing against cohorts versus doing one to one like personalization. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:25

I think there's definitely stuff that's coming out that's going to help in like those types of things, because, like even Rekart, rekart has something in their like SMS platform where they utilize AI and AI copy to say like, um oh, I want to send this to a VIP customer, versus I want to send this to, like, a first time buyer, right, and like changes the copy. So maybe you're saying like happy holidays, here's a Bogo deal and we'll help you in like changing that copy, but then also like does a little bit of identification of like who those people are too. So I think everybody has like a version of something that, and I think that we're going to see even more innovations in it in the next like year.

Speaker 1: 34:09

What's one area that you think is currently being underserved, that you'd be excited if you know somebody came out with a solution for it.

Speaker 2: 34:18

Honestly, I really think it's uh, I really think it's what you were mentioning like the marketing piece of it. Like I think that we can go deeper than just making copy, and I think we can go deeper than just making segments. Even, I think we can like identify behaviors as well as like help, um, marketing analytics and like like making better decisions based off of like AI models that from like a an analytics point of view, not just like a oh go, do this for me, right? Uh, I think I think it's. It's even taking a step further of like what you were saying.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Like, and I think I see a lot of people doing these things, even like in retention or lifecycle, and like everybody has some sort of tooling for it, but there's not one tool that answers it all and like, and I think that there should be, like I wish that, whether it's like Klaviyo or send lane or any of these like marketing tools that we utilize for, for sends, has something all encompassing into their analytics, because that's like, that's like one place in all of these sending tools, the analytics, or, or shit. This is why I go and like build my own dashboards.

Speaker 1: 35:29

And also the attribution windows. The attribution windows are hysterical too.

Speaker 2: 35:34

Yeah, oh man, and even like, but I think they're hysterical because they also compare you to like benchmarks of, like your industry standard. But I'm like, not every brf brand, sorry.

Speaker 1: 35:46

No, this is a. This is a casual hot because we can swear here.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Here's just as hot take, okay, benchmarks that you give me that are based off of, like what you think right, like whatever for these tools, right, what you think that, like an apparel industry or CPG or whatever it is, should be in, is not always going to be relevant to me. It's not like, and I think so, yeah, so, like, going back to what you're saying, like the attribution rates, like all these things, like I think that, like a lot of these models that these analytics tool, these tools, have in their analytics, are so in left field most of the time, and I'm like I don't trust anything you're saying to me. Because, because I'm like, are you taking into account that, like you know, maybe the person like yeah, they did go to check out, but maybe they left Right and then maybe they went to another window, like you know what I mean? Like, how do you really know? Like, are you really tracking their, their behaviors?

Speaker 1: 36:48

And if you added up the revenue from all your various tools, your store would be like three to five times larger than what it actually is.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Dude straight up, and that's again. This is literally why I go and build my scrappy reports, because I'm like I don't believe you.

Speaker 1: 37:07

What does that reporting process look like?

Speaker 2: 37:10

Oh, a lot of Google sheets, a lot of Excel docs, like I mean it's downloading this in CSVs to then making like not just like pivot tables, making crazy graphs, like just taking this to go do this, and like the craziest like formulas ever. But hey, man, shout out to chat to you because before this year I was not an Excel master. And now you are a girl over here.

Speaker 1: 37:37

That's awesome, yeah, making everybody better. Well, thank you so much for for coming on. I know we're running up on time here, but if there's one like tip or trick that you would recommend to brands, you know for next year that they should be looking at what's, what would you say?

Speaker 2: 37:56

Yeah, I think, honestly, land and plane of like everything that we've talked about. I think it's really focusing on like your community building and your brand story and really double leveling down on like the customers that you do have and like and I don't mean it and like, okay, just a retention basis. I also mean that in like, if somebody is excited about you and your audience, really engage with them, really build community with them, because those are the people who, when you go into retail, when you go into Amazon, you go into all these places, are going to continue following your journey.

Speaker 1: 38:30

Oh, that makes sense. If I ever start a brand, I'm going to reach out to you, but honestly it sounds awful with all the operational logistics stuff, so I'm going to stay on the marketing side over here.

Speaker 2: 38:42

I will say I'm sorry, I know we're at a tie, but, like when you're starting a brand, I have come across a couple of like really cool tools and like I wouldn't say agencies, but like operations that help you with like all encompassing of like fulfillment. If you need to go get a formula out there, whatever, it is right, so there's people out. There is my point. So if you ever, brandon, want to start a brand in three years, call your girl.

Speaker 1: 39:08

I will. I will Well, before we hop off, can you let everybody know where they can find you online?

Speaker 2: 39:13

Yeah, so two places. I'm most active on LinkedIn, so just survey on. We'll put in the show notes on how to spell my last name. And I also have a website, just survey oncom. Those are the two places that you can find me.

Speaker 1: 39:30

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on For everybody listening. As always, this is Brandon Amoroso. You can find me at BrandonAmorosocom and ElectricMarketingcom. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.