The D2Z Podcast

Media Channel Diversification - 139

• Brandon Amoroso • Episode 139

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In this episode of The D2Z Podcast, host Brandon Amoroso speaks with Nikki Lindgren, founder of Pennock, about her journey in the digital marketing space, particularly in the beauty industry. They discuss the challenges faced during the COVID-19 pandemic, the importance of finding a niche, and the effectiveness of TikTok as a sales channel. Nikki shares insights on leveraging AI in marketing, the significance of creating a positive remote work culture, and the ongoing need for sales and business development in agency growth.

What You'll Learn:
❗Nikki's entrepreneurial journey began with a passion for lifestyle branding and e-commerce.
❗The COVID-19 pandemic posed significant challenges but also opened new opportunities in the beauty industry.
❗Finding a niche can be unintentional but beneficial for agency growth.
❗TikTok has proven to be a highly effective sales channel for beauty products.
❗Channel diversification is crucial for mitigating risks in marketing strategies.
❗AI is transforming marketing practices, making processes more efficient.
❗Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) are essential for scaling an agency effectively.
❗Creating a positive remote work culture fosters collaboration and team spirit.
❗Sales and business development remain critical functions for agency leaders.
❗Emerging brands can benefit from co-funding opportunities in paid media.

Timestamps:

  • 00:00 Introduction to D2Z and Guest Background
  • 03:06 Nikki's Journey to Entrepreneurship
  • 06:11 Navigating Challenges During COVID-19
  • 08:57 Finding a Niche in the Beauty Industry
  • 12:01 Leveraging TikTok for Sales
  • 14:49 Exploring New Sales Channels
  • 17:59 The Role of AI in Marketing
  • 21:07 Scaling the Agency and Delegation Challenges
  • 23:58 Creating a Positive Remote Work Culture
  • 27:05 Sales and Business Development Insights
  • 30:04 Conclusion and Future Opportunities

Nikki Lindgren:
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikkilindgren/
Pennock - https://www.pennock.co/

Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon
Scalis.ai - https://scalis.ai/

Speaker 1:

Hey everyone, Thanks for tuning into D2Z, a podcast about using the Gen Z mindset to grow your business. I'm Gen Z entrepreneur Brandon Amoroso, the former founder of Electric and now the co-founder of Scaless, and today I'm talking with Nikki Lindgren, who's the founder and managing partner at Pinnock, which is a paid media and SEO agency for beauty and lifestyle brands that are growing their D2Z businesses. Thanks for coming on the show.

Speaker 2:

I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

So before we dive into things, can you give everybody just a quick background on yourself and sort of your journey?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I was coming out of college here in the San Francisco Bay Area in the early 2000s and I really wanted to work in both lifestyle branding as well as e-commerce, and so I was lucky enough to work with Cost Plus World Market now known as World Market and help launch their e-commerce store for the very first time, and that's where I really got excited and jazzed about the whole industry of digital marketing and helping e-commerce brands, and so I really stayed in the industry since then, working both agency side and in-house side, before forming my own agency, panoc, in 2020.

Speaker 1:

What would you say was sort of the impetus for wanting to start your own agency. Why 2020? You were like this is it. This is the time I'm going to make the entrepreneurial leap.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I'm from a really small town in Minnesota, so I feel like I kind of grew up sheltered, but my dad was an entrepreneur, so I was really excited about the idea of just being my own boss. I thought I had what it took. You know, I was younger, I was kind of full of myself, and so, as I was also pregnant with my third child and getting laid off from my last full time marketing role, I was just like, well, now's the moment to just get on, you know, upwork and all the freelancing platforms, to start showing what I've got to give 2018 rather to 2020. So for two years, I just had a consultancy and I cobbled together a couple freelancers who would help me with any projects I was able to secure. And after I had enough contracts that I felt comfortable with, covering full-time staff and payroll, we started rolling in team members, and that just happened to be about two weeks before the whole world locked down for COVID.

Speaker 1:

And what was that initial period? Like you know, making adjustments and changing during a period of pretty extreme uncertainty that lasted for quite a bit of time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we definitely had a rocky early part of 2020 where I wasn't sure I could even continue sustaining full time employees. So we were able to, you know, get enough leads who were quick acting to really continue running our business. But at that point we probably had one client that was attributing to 40 or 50% of total revenue coming in. So it was pretty risky times. For sure, we were able to keep that client happy. I think they stayed with us for like two and a half years, so it ended up being a really good situation.

Speaker 2:

But that was kind of the risk we took at the beginning was not knowing what was about to happen. Then, when it happened, we had a few clients who decided to end our relationship immediately and also not pay us for the previous outstanding invoices. So it could have ended a little bit differently. But, you know, I just kind of put my head down and looked for any opportunity that I could find at that point and fortunately people were very interested in beauty and you know just their aesthetic during that time. So it ended up being a great time to get into the beauty industry pretty heavily.

Speaker 1:

How did you end up sort of aligning on that particular vertical as the niche that you were going to go into?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good question and it wasn't actually intentional, and I don't know if that's good to admit or not. My interest was home decor. That's where I had spent a decent amount of my time. I had been at subscription boxes for kids. I had been at wearable technology companies. So beauty was a little bit of an outlier for me. But the relationships I was building with other agencies that complemented ours had really deep tentacles in beauty. So it just felt natural to start working in that space. And now my team's still very small, but the team all-female staff they really like working in beauty, so we have no reason to pivot at this point.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean we also fell into it. You know we used to do it both from a vertical standpoint but also services that we provided. Uh cause, in the early days I would do pretty much anything for anyone to, you know, to get revenue and to be able to hire more clients.

Speaker 2:

And then you know, we did that too, like in 2020, we had a couple of brands that really needed us to do email, they needed us to do creative and a lot of things within marketing, and my staff was just too small and we were really just skilled at paid media management and SEO. So we just kind of cut down our services and trim the fat to what we thought we could really do with a small lean team on an ongoing basis. But yeah, I mean I assumed I would grow up to be a full service anything within the marketing ecosystem my team and I would be doing and you know that was just kind of a niche we ended up going into. It was just paid and SEO, and I mean precisely that's where my deepest experience was as a marketer, in-house and agency side, before starting the agency.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I see a lot of relationships go awry because you know an agency will try and take on too much and then you know, as opposed to having a really great relationship providing two services for a brand, they're you know having a mediocre relationship providing four, and then they'll end up churning. And so you know, long term it's actually not you know better off for either side. But there could I mean, I have seen pressure before from brands Like why won't you do this for me?

Speaker 2:

We want you to do it.

Speaker 1:

You do such a good job with these one or two other things that you're doing, so it's definitely a tricky balancing act.

Speaker 2:

Well and I think it's hard too than we did even a year ago with TikTok affiliate management and TikTok just shop management, and we were really intentional about how we rolled it out, which existing clients we tested it and piloted it with for free, just to make sure our SOPs and the way we were thinking about managing the service was something we felt comfortable selling before we had our first paying client to manage that workflow with.

Speaker 1:

So you mentioned TikTok shop. You know what are you most excited about with that channel for for this year? You know assuming it's still here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I think for for beauty and kind of other uh, really low consideration products where people are converting quite quickly because the price point is palatable, et cetera.

Speaker 2:

It's just been a quick mover in terms of, you know, increasing volume of sales, increasing ROAS. So for us, you know, in all of the A-B testing we've done on the TikTok ads platform saying should we point people to the e-commerce store or point people to TikTok shop TikTok shop has always outperformed. I think there's a couple outliers where it was either a new technology in the industry and people didn't understand it and needed more education. The only other time it didn't work is when the audience was much more mature and maybe wasn't used to shopping on a platform like TikTok. But I think the exciting thing then for us is just like we already have a lot of proof that it's going to convert and drive much more revenue than bringing people to the e-commerce shop. So nothing really new that we're looking forward to in this year just making sure we can get more brands live there so that the ads we're running can point to the shop experience for that quicker response rate from customers.

Speaker 1:

Are there product categories that you would say don't fit very well for TikTok shop?

Speaker 2:

It's interesting because within the lifestyle space we do help a handful of lifestyle brands, including fashion brands, and I think when you think of fashion and all the colorways and size variations, sometimes that gets a little complicated to do as well on TikTok as something like an eye serum or something. So we have found in fashion it has been a little more challenging and in some cases not as helpful, but within the space of like a single product, without the variations, without the colorways, it's really a winning formula. So I'd say that would be another area that we've worked in that doesn't work. And then again, like those higher price point things is more considered purchases are also going to do better on e-com than on TikTok shop.

Speaker 1:

Are there any other sort of sales channels that you're interested in exploring in 2025? I know I've been seeing a bunch of stuff about Apple Oven from some folks in this space, but on our end we don't do acquisition. We were always. Once you get to the website, then we take over from an experience and retention standpoint. So are there any other media channels or sales channels that you're looking to tap into for 25?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think this year for us and a lot of our clients even though our clients are still pretty much emerging and under, I would say, 15 million ARR is we're looking at just channel diversification. I think, like with the TikTok scare that happened earlier this year, people are a little bit nervous around how much emphasis they put into a single channel. So you know, even last year we were very heavy on meta and Google. Obviously we don't hear any hiccups on those channels, but we want to still continue to diversify. So we're having a lot more conversations already early in the year about getting onto connected TV and audio ads and it just seems like there's a lot more trackability in platforms that had fewer options to properly track uh earlier on. So that's what we're really looking to do is just kind of expand further. We've done a handful of like reddit tests, even with beauty brands. Maybe we'll do more reddit ads this year. Maybe we'll go into spotify harder.

Speaker 1:

Things like that are just really kind of diversifying rather than putting all of our eggs in the meta, programmatic and google lane yeah, and I think I mean it's definitely, I would argue, even more difficult when you're not a giant business, having to do that diversification, because you have to be careful to not spread yourself too thin, exactly because there are benefits to going deep, you know, with one particular platform. Yeah, I mean, if 70, 80% of your spend was on TikTok and then disappears, that's a serious problem.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of what we're juggling with the clients and we like to take a look at their total business e-commerce or social commerce in general and what the paid lane will do when we're talking about the paid ads management we do and just make sure that we can look at that MER marketing efficiency ratio to understand if we do more awareness campaigns, how does that impact their overall business? What is the lag time for that awareness to actually convert for the brands? So that's kind of what we think about in partnership with the brand. So we're not always focused on the remarketing efforts, the lower funnel tactic efforts, and I think that helps us get comfortable and the brands get comfortable going into some of these newer platforms. But again, we need to be mindful of how much each campaign is spending per day to ensure it makes sense for the business.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I've been seeing more and more sort of like media mix modeling platforms that have popped up, one of them being Prescient, I think there's one or two others, but it's pretty fascinating to see how close and accurate they're able to predict revenue based off of spend and what particular channels and this halo effect that I think we've talked about as marketers for a very long time but has been extremely hard to actually quantify. It's like oh, we're running an ad on Facebook to go to the Shopify store, but our Amazon sales are going up. We're just in the past, you just sort of take it as is. Versus now you can actually start to look at what is the true impact of that ad and you know cross channel performance. So I think things like connected TV and all this other stuff too, it's just getting better and better.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the person and I do think like one of the struggles we have with these earlier stage businesses is how much they can spend on like tooling and technology. So Crescent isn't one we've used yet but I think, like North beam, triple whale, a lot of the attribution and incrementality that can be seen. There are things where you usually layering into to decide how to make decisions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true. Um, that was always the constant juggle for us is you know how to have a tech stack that is sort of like our preferred one at the agency when you're working with businesses who might be doing 5 million a year, some that are doing, you know, $75 million a year. There's different tools as you start to work your way up, and then also there's just like the media mix. Modeling is far more effective with more data. So if you're only doing $5 million a year, it's probably not needed yet, and I seen way too many shopify storefronts with like 70 or 80 apps installed on them.

Speaker 2:

so consolidation and you know this is the name of the game, I think oh great.

Speaker 1:

Are there any any other like um apps or sort of tools that you're leveraging that you think are just like totally no brainers for any business in the beauty and lifestyle space to be taking advantage of?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, let's see. I mean, I think from a site experience perspective and that's maybe a little bit more in your lane of expertise there's just a lot of cool integrations with the experience someone might be seeing on social and primarily on social ads. So vermont is something, is a platform. I think that's doing a good job of extending the ad experience to a custom landing page in a pretty slick and technology driven way. Who did I speak to recently? Another team that does creative is doing an angle like that. So to me, I think like the seamless integration of not only just like campaign 360 approach, but also making sure that the campaigns across the channels then relate well to what happens on the website, I think is a really cool feature. I mean, anything that's going to do personalization, too, is going to be super, super helpful.

Speaker 2:

But I think, if we're speaking primarily in what we do, which is like the ads management side of things, we work with a company called Best Ever to do some AI and like lifting of creatives. Should we need? Most of our clients are making their own assets because their brand is their baby and they want to make sure everything looks amazing. But should we need quick lifts? We find best ever is great for that. We find motion for asset insights and when we're going to start to see fatigue with creative. We've used foreplay in the past. I think motion does most of what foreplay does at this point, so motion is sort of our go-to. And then for us, like reporting, is really important Finding technologies that puts together a nice quick dashboard that the clients can make sense of and look at at their leisure.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you mentioned AI. How is AI transforming the way that you sort of work and support your businesses?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I don't think you can ever be too caught up with what's going on in AI. I feel like almost every day you could find a way to make what you're doing better. For us with AI, like well, first, there are more machine learning based campaigns that we run these days, right. So on Google, we have performance max campaigns that are easier for a media buyer to be managing. We have advantage plus shopping on meta, so we're using a lot of the now embedded AI of the campaign builds and management. Beyond that, for AI, I think like again, any kind of tool that's going to help make creative or ad copy easier will leverage just sophisticated like agents and scripts that we have, brand by brand to kind of shortcut. Some of the creation and strategy is what we're using too, um. And then for us in the ad space, we've been doing a lot of scripting for bid rules and bid management, um, throughout the time, but I think even the management of scripts is becoming more simplified, so so that's good for newer media buyers.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the more that you can offload to AI to free yourself up to think more critically and strategically, the better. There's so many workflows that I've been able to augment because of it that I don't have to spend hours, in some cases, doing over and over again, and it's just getting better and better every day. It that I don't have to, you know, spend hours in some cases doing over and over again?

Speaker 2:

Um and it's just getting better and better every day. So well, and I think it's interesting because we're hiring right now and one of the questions now you know ask in interview processes is like, what have you done in the automation lane? And like, give me examples of things that you've taken from you know the manual to to a slightly better version, things that you've taken from you know the manual to a slightly better version, and I think it's just, you know, one of the things I read just yesterday is the role of junior employees and how much of that might just be moved into AI, and so something we're thinking about trying to figure out ways to have our own profit margin as an agency improve over the years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, something that's been interesting to see is how a lot of entry-level roles now require one to two years of experience. But they're entry-level, so how do you get the years of experience for an entry-level role? It's going to be interesting to how things evolve over the next three or five years, Because there's definitely people who think that, you know, AI agents are just going to do absolutely everything. But then, you know, I've met quite a few folks, especially on, like, the engineering side, who you know they're working with these tools literally every minute of the day and there still has to be a lot of handholding that goes into it.

Speaker 1:

If you just sort of let it off to its own devices, it can go down holes and paths that don't make sense in any way whatsoever. We'll see if it hits a wall. I read an article where it could hit a wall at some point, and then there will have to be another completely different step up in function and eventually it'll just hit this wall. I don't know. There's far smarter people who are working on these things than me. I'm just trying to be able to leverage it as well as possible to make my life easier and the business is more successful.

Speaker 2:

Us as well.

Speaker 1:

Hopping back out to the actual, you know, agency itself. Um, what has it been like delegating and sort of offloading things to to team members as you've grown and scaled? Uh, cause, I hear that's you know, challenging for business owners in any type of company. You know they, it's their baby, they're doing everything for everything all at once, and then they start to grow and they can't do that anymore and you have to entrust other people to, like, take on certain things and those roles. So what has that been like for you and how have you sort of facilitated that, you know, effectively?

Speaker 2:

agree that it's. It was a huge challenge the first few years. So even as a consultancy with a freelance team, we I was having a hard time getting the product to be what I wanted it to be, and so for me one of the control freak moves that I did was I have to have full-time staff, because then I have like little more control over ensuring that the product they deliver is what I wanted to deliver to clients. So that was kind of like the first move to get things into a lane. That was the way I wanted to see things. We did not have like SOPs or even like a single source of truth. There were like a lot of like messy spreadsheets where you're supposed to input. Like the last day you did some things, and so we were kind of like very cobbled together and I understood what we needed to do really well, and so by default I just assumed every team member at any level should also know and have as much knowledge as I have.

Speaker 2:

So there were lots of interesting stops and starts in the first two years of the business, I would say. And then we moved into a more professional project management system. We put together real sops. I was just writing a new sop today. I think we have like 300 in our database, so just trying to like get everything a little bit more systematized I think really helped me feel comfortable being less involved in clients day-to-day.

Speaker 2:

We're, you know, small team. We have about 22 active clients right now, so it's not that many but still too many for me to be involved in all of them in any way, shape or form. So it's great to be at a place where the team is just doing the work now and, as we bring on new team members, my team is training the new team members. So I'm more around for just the quick onboarding and the touch bases and less about training the team on all the things to do. I mean, everything kind of slips through the cracks to some extent at some point. So we'll uncover that we've stopped using something that's been really valuable in the past and we'll dust it off and start implementing again. But for the most part, having the SOPs and the automations and our project management systems really helped us kind of continue to perfect the product we're delivering.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the one thing that always scared me about the SOPs is like turning into one of the companies that I had internships with back in high school and college where you just had these SOPs that made no sense at all anymore because they needed to be changed, refreshed and updated, but either nobody wanted to or nobody had the autonomy to actually make those suggestions and to facilitate that change. So I was so probably overly annoying about reminding the team that just because this is the process doesn't mean that, like you, should not be thinking critically about it and whether or not it makes sense and if it could be improved, etc. Etc. Because you know that the last thing I would want is just to be stuck in in our ways and with everything that happens now, like so quickly you mentioned yeah, layering in the ai piece, like the soPs, can get outdated quickly.

Speaker 2:

And you know, a team member of mine just came to me after her last QBR with a client and was like the client was just super checked out, like I don't think that the way we're presenting our quarterly business review is landing with this client and maybe like we should dust it off and see if we need to refresh it for everybody.

Speaker 2:

And I think what we found, comparing like start year 2020 to now 2025, is our brands expect us to be doing, to be finding problems right away, finding solutions and, you know, optimizing to get us to a better spot. And so if we wait till end of month or end of quarter to tell them about some opportunities that we might have slept on, like that's not going to land well. So none of our clients really want to hear about the postmortem and what happened as the month closed. They want to continue learning about strategies and how we're going to do better, and so we're just, you know, kind of being as aware of what the client's looking for as we can be, so that we're matching them rather than saying like, well, this is our qbr, so let's just keep doing it that way, because that's how nikki said she wanted it two years ago so here we go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's definitely a give and a take there. We've had some clients who want us to change our processes way too much to try and fit into, like whatever their structure is, and it's totally destabilizing, um. So that was always a fun. A fun like a song and dance there, especially when they're like one of the larger clients and, and you know, learning to say no, no, I mean, I still am not good at it, but it's definitely a skill set.

Speaker 1:

I remember firing our first client and our whole team was like so fired up about it and excited because it needed to have happened probably three months earlier than that.

Speaker 1:

But we were decently sized at that point, so I didn't have my thumb on the pulse of every single brand that we were working with at that time.

Speaker 1:

So I didn't have my thumb on the pulse of every single brand that we were working with at that time. So we had to install a time management solution that would essentially enable me to run monthly reports so I could see across the 50 brands how much time was being spent where, so we could get some sort of effective hourly rate for like. Once we implemented that, I think we were at like 14 or 15 an hour for this particular client because you know, with slack and all these other like communication channels, you can like really abuse a team because you know you're going one-to-one. You're like, oh, let's do a sidebar here for 30 minutes. Oh, can you help with this, can you help with that? And it just can like, you know, snowball out of control. Um, but that was my first uh warning lesson when it came to uh saying no and also moving on when one of the time is right, even when I think they were our largest retainer at the time.

Speaker 2:

So it was pretty, pretty painful yeah yeah, yeah, those are hard calls to make but definitely, you know, can help progress things in the right way. And and like I'm planning my one on one later today with a team member, it's like how, what else can we systematize better and automate better? Because we've got new clients coming on and I don't want to just continue to hire every time we have X new clients. We've got to find a better way to do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how do you think about, you know, creating culture and having a good culture at a remote organization? I think a lot of companies are struggling with that, especially when it comes to hiring younger talent. I personally have had a miserable time trying to hire people right out of school because they don't want to go work in their parents' basement and then spend their whole time there. It's a big social component to it as well. You know, spend their whole time there. It's like a big social component to it as well. So how have you, like, gone about creating an environment where people you know have that desire and will to show up to you, know they're a part of the team, even if you aren't physically with one another?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we have a handful of moms on on our team and you know beyond that, just women who are used to working in remote companies. So I think you know beyond that, just women who are used to working in remote companies. So I think you know already, by default, people kind of know what that's going to feel, look like. I think the other thing that we do is because our interview process is not very long, but so many team members are able to interact with the candidates prior to hiring them, that everyone's kind of getting to have a point of view on what it's going to be like to interact with the candidates prior to hiring them, that everyone's kind of getting to have a point of view on what it's going to be like to interact with this person. Is it going to be a good fit for us? I think those two things kind of help.

Speaker 2:

Then, beyond that, we just have like a like leave your ego at the door, roll up your sleeves, kind of mentality and, um, lots of people who will come into help situations where someone you, you know needs extra eyes on something. So I just think it's it's it's not an environment where people are trying to outdo each other, it's an environment where people are trying to, like you know, increase everyone's output and increase everyone's positivity in the work they're doing and the way they're feeling about what they're doing. So I think that that helps a lot. We have, like Wednesday learnings, where a team member is kind of training us on something new that they're excited about. So there's just like a lot of moments for the small group to get together and chat, and so I think the respect that they have for each other is just really real, and when we have our first kickoff call with clients, just the love oozing out of everyone as they're introducing each other is just really, really sweet to witness.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's one of the most, if not the most, rewarding part of having your own business is the team. Though sometimes it definitely doesn't feel like that, yeah, Especially when I think you know you're probably in a similar situation I was in where you're not large enough to have like a full HR department. So you basically are the HR department.

Speaker 2:

Yep Comes with a lot of lessons.

Speaker 2:

So many departments I have to head or, you know, have someone on the outside help me manage because I don't want to become so skilled in all the parts of the business, right? I think I was on a show yesterday and they're like, what surprised you the most about starting an agency? And like sales and BD, like I don't know why, but I didn't think I would have to be spending so much time in that function and you know, stupid early early thinking about how, how the work would set up. But I'm still very much in the sales and bd lane for our business.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's one that I never successfully offloaded, and actually I didn't even really want to, because that was what I enjoyed more than anything. Um, and now, if I get a new software business, that's my primary function and role anyways. So I think over time you figure out what it is that you want to be doing and what you're good at too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I'm pretty bad at eating the frog when I start my day, so generally speaking, whatever I really do not have passion about doing doesn't get done in a timely manner. That's what I rely on coffee for. Extra caffeine can push me through those.

Speaker 2:

That and some good music Got to turn on the tunes.

Speaker 1:

Yes, exactly. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all of your insights, but before we hop, can you let everybody who's listening know where they could connect with you online if they want to learn more about the agency?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the best place to come check us out is on our website, pennochco P-E-N-N-O-C-Kco. We're also active on LinkedIn and TikTok, I think are the two we're the most active on, so you can see a little bit about the education and information we share there. The education and information we share there. We do have offers for any DTC brand that kind of fits certain criteria, where we will help fund some of their paid media for our first quarter working together. So if that would be value add to any emerging brands, it's something you can mention if you fill out a form on our website and we can definitely talk about some co-funding opportunities.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. That sounds awesome. Well, again, thank you for coming on. For everybody who's listening, as always, this is Brandon Amoroso. You can find me at brandonamorosocom or scalistai. Thank you for listening and we will see you next time.