Hilary and Tom are both counselors at white bird clinic's Chrysalis department. They talk about how they came to find the Clinic, the department's holistic approach to behavioral health, challenges the department faces, and the value of peer support.
To find out more about White Bird Clinic, visit whitebirdclinic.org.
Hilary and Tom are both counselors at white bird clinic's Chrysalis department. They talk about how they came to find the Clinic, the department's holistic approach to behavioral health, challenges the department faces, and the value of peer support.
To find out more about White Bird Clinic, visit whitebirdclinic.org.
You're listening to White Bird Mutual Aid. I'm Hana Francis. This show is funded by White Bird Clinic to bring awareness to social services. We talk to social workers about what they do, how they do it and why it's so important. This episode I'm sharing a conversation with Hilary and Tom from whitebread clinics chrysalis department. We talk about what they do at the clinic, some important programs within the department and how they got into this work. chrysalis is the Department of White Bird Clinic that is focused on providing humanistic Alcohol and Drug Abuse Treatment Programs and mental health services for people 18 and older. They offer different kinds of outpatient treatment, including counseling, acupuncture, yoga, parenting groups, tai chi, peer support, and a DUI program. Chrysalis is licensed by the state and their DUI services meet state requirements. Chrysalis services are for residents of Lane County and many services are offered remotely for folks who can't make it to Eugene regularly. They accept Oregon Health Plan private insurance and have a sliding scale for fees. No one is turned away for an inability to pay for services. There are currently 24 people working at chrysalis. Both Hilary and Tom are counselors there.
Hilary Hildebrand:I'm Hilary, I'm a behavioral health counselor slash case manager person and my pronouns are she and her.
Tom Hurd:Tom, he/him/his, I am a counselor at Chrysalis. I get to also support, do clinical support, for about half of the clinicians on the team too. Hilary being one of those.
Hana Francis:Hilary and Tom each found chrysalis through different paths. But both have come to value the unique nature of White Bird Clinic.
Hilary Hildebrand:Okay, so when I moved here with my little family, three boys and my ex, our ex husband, I was driving in downtown Eugene, just marveling at, like how incredibly different it is than any place I've ever lived before. And I saw white bird and I thought, like, what is going on there, there's a lot of people hanging out, it looks like an art collective or something's happening there. I want to find out more. So I came home and I read a little bit about white bird. And I thought, gosh, like as a person in long term recovery, I was like, I want to work there. Like I feel like I need to find a way to either volunteer, or, you know, actually work there. And then I got sort of involved in other recovery communities. And I hear more and more about White Bird and somebody said, You should go back to school and become a counselor. And I thought if I do that I can work out White Bird. I can go be like hanging out with all those cool people over white bird. Like, I know, I have things in common with these people. And the more I learned about white bird, the more I was like, Yeah, this is like an investment in our community that I want to be a part of, even if it takes like going to school for a year and doing an internship for a year. And all of those things like I just felt like my whole life kind of led up to working at White Bird, which is weird. And I don't think a lot of people get to say that about their job that I genuinely do feel like a lot of cards. A lot of stars alignedto get me there.
Hana Francis:Wow, that's a great story.
Tom Hurd:This is a great story. My it's not that great. Um, see, well, I am a retired criminal and ofin. I've been in recovery for about, I think 16 years now or something like that. And I was doing time and I was in a program to help get figured out what I was going to do with my life and how to not have to do meth anymore. Just land there. And I got this like a six month inpatient program inside of prison, and I had a counselor who didn't do anything I met with him for like fifth Teen minutes, once a week, and he just asked how I was doing, I was doing fine. And that was that was basically it. And one day when I was getting close to graduating and getting released, I was sitting across from him looking at him. And he was like, Mama, my mama anatomy, and I thought, God, you're dumb. God, you are dumb. And then I went hey, can I ask you a question? He goes, Yeah, I go, how much you getting paid to do this job? He goes, Oh, I don't think that's an appropriate question. I go, No, look, man. I'm really on the edge making a big decision here. And I need to know that this pays, because I'm thinking about it. When he told me, I can't remember what the number was, it was like 20 bucks an hour or something like that. And this is 16 years ago, I was like, with this do can get paid to do this. I know I can. Right. So I actually went straight back to the dorm that I was living in. And on the wall were FASFA applications. So that's so federal student aid application, I just filled it out, mailed it in and was registered with financial aid ready to go to ln the moment I walked out the gates. So, you know, I met a teacher out there that encouraged me to come to internship at chrysalis, and that was 13 years ago. So. So that's, that's how I got here.
Hana Francis:That's also an amazing story. Tom and Hilary's lived experiences and education and form the work they do now at White Bird Clinic. Chrysalis is a department among White Bird Clinic that really values lived experience within their staff. It offers low barrier services, which means that they attempt to provide services to anyone who seeks them out.
Tom Hurd:Outpatient adults only have a mental health track that's available. We have an outpatient substance abuse track that's available. And there's also a co occurring sort of a mixture of those, that's the optimal thing to do is get people working in both areas at the same time. And then we also have a robust DUI program. Yes, quite robust. There's lots of DUI work going on every day at Chrysalis. So we have a peer support program, which is I'd say it's flourishing right now, almost burgeoning, maybe. Like, it's like there's some cool stuff happening. We've got some newer staff putting in a lot of good work doing that. And the people that do I've got a bird balmy my window here. The the people that do find the time to spend time with our peer support, folks, I think they really get a lot out of it. So there's that pre pandemic, we had an acupuncture clinic don't want to four evenings a week. That was our that, in some ways is our detox protocol. For folks that don't need to be partially hospitalized, like at will, the Buckley center or the hospital or something along those lines. So, but our acupuncturist always just treated the human that was there in front of them. And for whatever, like I had a really bad case of tendinitis once it lasted about a year, and I finally went and got some acupuncture. It was amazing. Also, pre pandemic, we had a couple of yoga classes a week. And I think yoga is back in the works. I don't know if they're going to do it in person with masks or some version over Zoom or Teams or whatever program, but I think that's coming back pretty quick.
Hana Francis:So what is what are your jobs entail at Chrysalis?
Tom Hurd:We agreed that Hilary was gonna go first, just a few minutes ago.
Hilary Hildebrand:Did we? Okay. Um, it's just that's a hard question. Especially since there's so many opportunities to be involved in the community, but At the wiper community and the larger community of behavioral health counselors, I feel like my job as defined as kind of supporting people and defining a goal for themselves, and figuring out how to improve their well being and their situation, whether that means facilitating a group session, or having one to one sessions with that person counseling, and also helping move people through our DUI program. A lot of case management. But also just kind of like staying in touch with those other agencies that are in our community. I like to participate in a lot of zoom calls right now, but like meetings of people in the community that are doing similar work, and actually nationally, people who are doing this work and figuring out like, what does telehealth look like for you guys? How are you supporting people who are out of town? And what are you doing for harm reduction? And how do you bring that into a nonprofit agency just sort of those larger like legislative questions are really intriguing to me, like find ways to poke around into the larger picture. And I all Something I love about chrysalis, and white bird is like, the endless opportunities for us to do trainings, and figure out how to better support our clients. So I feel like I'm the day to day Yeah, like my job is being a counselor. But it's also it also feels like that's a small part of a much larger community support that I hope that I can be.
Tom Hurd:Well, Hillary is much more ambitious than I am. I don't nearly as involved in a community like that. That's pretty cool to hear. You know, I am sort of a member of unofficial leadership at chrysalis, you know, as, theoretically, we're not a top down sort of place. But some of the work funnels up if that makes sense. So, I'm pretty heavily involved in the running of the business part of Chrysalis trying to shape ideas and opportunities into something that is palatable or exciting for the rest of the group, when we try and make a final decision about whether to go for an opportunity, or to make changes and how we're currently doing things. That's not my favorite part. My favorite part is actually working with the staff in my clinical supervision role. So that is, that's the best part. But running a really close second is group work. I have a group that I facilitate on Wednesday nights, as a matter of fact, for a really long time now, probably over a decade. And I almost always used to say, that's my passion. But I've been lately leaning more into and being more interested in supporting in some fashion, the rest of the staff for the ones that I get to work with. So I do a little bit of individual counseling with some long term clients. I think I have maybe four people or something like that, that I see regularly. Yeah.
Hana Francis:That's great. Yeah. It's interesting. It's like, a White Bird, nobody just does what their job title sounds like. So I you both explaining...
Tom Hurd:Well, you also do I also do quite a bit of this type of stuff to go and meeting people. Like I just did New Bird training last night so I go late in the evening and pop on a zoom call and sort of present what I call Chrysalisian philosophy and approach and style and whatnot. Excuse me. And I've done that for a couple rounds of like CAHOOTS training, when they have trainees in like, bring them in and up kind of cohort usually. And I've gone it's been a couple of years. It's been since the pandemic. I think maybe I did it once because I remember wearing a mask, but done that a two or three times. periodically get to go on To visit one of the HOOTS outposts, and talk to some, some of the students, they're in one of their classes, which is always quite fun. I don't know, for some reason I always get nervous going to that one. I do. It's hard to make me nervous do but for that one I do all those kids. Yeah, you know, I think with the kids, and like, I'm not heavily involved, I've only done it a few times, like I said, but I think when I get there, I realize that what we're not what we're doing isn't necessarily trying to help them figure out their relationship with drugs and alcohol. It's more about how to figure out their relationship with their parents that are struggling,
Hana Francis:Talking to kids about substance abuse, mental health, and Family Health is one of the special things about White Bird Clinic and Chrysalis is a part of that. Another special thing about Chrysalis is the holistic nature with which people are treated, Hilary said that it's really important to the work that she does.
Hilary Hildebrand:I feel like White Bird is super ahead of its time, years and decades back, every other recovery, you know, residential, outpatient, any agency that's been around even 10 years has been playing catch up to what white bird has been doing for decades, they're suddenly kind of in this space of like, oh, like white bird has been doing kind of, you know, like low key harm reduction, meeting people where they are using a humanistic approach all of those things for decades, and I'm not going to name any names, but obviously, but other agencies where I've worked, or that I have friends who work at those agencies that kind of are just fate now phasing out of the model of kind of like shame and guilt. And you know, that stigma around addiction is something that they kind of have historically used to force people to change, right? Like, Oh, you're such a bad person, you were such a bad person when you were using drugs. And that just that old, old, 12 Step mentality. And so with white bird and chrysalis specifically, like, that is just not our viewpoint. And everybody is catching up to that, like, that doesn't help anybody. It will never support long term recovery at all, to put people in a place of like, shame and self hatred.
Tom Hurd:You know, one of the things I say is that I think is different about us is that we don't think drugs and alcohol are bad. Or that people are bad because they do drugs and alcohol or because they do crazy things. To to get drugs and alcohol or to stay loaded or whatever, right. So like to say that early and often to folks and then let them experience what it's like to work. I mean, I like I see our job is creating a safe environment and safe relationships where people can explore what's really wrong with their lives, right? To say, you know, like, we all know what's wrong with our life. You know, it's up here maybe are in your heart, or maybe it's in your belly, sometimes. Maybe it's moving all around. But most of us have a pretty good sense of what's wrong. It's just not as sometimes we don't know what to do about it, though, right? And drugs now alcohol do have coping value. Works, man it does. It just it just works. So you know, like, I have a bad day. I mean, I live I live about 30 miles north of Eugene. I'm gonna drive by four or five liquor stores probably like 20 cannabis stores. I don't know like 30 Dairy Marts right. So right. Excuse me. Quick relief is available and advertised and even pushed in our society, right. And so for people to end up they're relying on it seems normal, right? And what, what we want to do is, like I said, create an environment and relationships with them, where it feels safe to explore how they want their lives to be different. And we don't run around prescribing abstinence for people. Well, you can never drink again. Oh, no, you better never smoke weed again, or Oh, no, you better never take a Xanax. And we don't do that. And it's not, it doesn't it's not helpful. That's a decision. That's the decision for you to make or for that human to make. Well, another thing that I always say to folks is in that same vein, I'm not prescribing absence for you. But what I hope you'll do next time you're presented with an opportunity to drink or use, or whatever maladaptive behavior his has challenged your life, I hope that you'll stop. When presented, you will stop. Take a big, deep breath, and ask yourself, why are you considering it. And if the reason you're considering it, is because something's wrong, I hope we have helped you develop the strength, the wherewithal to say, No, this is not a good time for me to not have all of my faculties, I've got things to do, I've got things to address. And a lot of people will choose absence, they will make that decision for themselves. What, whether or not it's long term or another extended period, or whatever, but a lot of people will choose that and really seriously consider it and that that all feels like winning to me.
Hana Francis:One of the most used programs at Christmas is a DUII program. A DUII program is state ordered for people who have been ordered a diversion program for or convicted of driving under the influence of intoxicants. This program must be completed through a state approved provider of DUII programs. DUII or driving under the influence is the term more commonly used across the United States for this offense. But the Oregon classification is DUII, driving under the influence of intoxicants. This classification acknowledges that there are many different substances which people may be driving under the influence of, they're slowly making their transition back to in person, but are trying to find a balance of online and in person services. That means the needs of the clients and the community as a whole.
Hilary Hildebrand:After their intake, hopefully, their intake counselor has been doing a really good job of listening to what they have to say, and kind of has other than their DUII group, which is required to DUII Education Group, another good spot for them for for a secondary group. And also a counselor that they think might be a good fit for that person. Since we have a phase two program, the first 30 days, they'll work with a counselor and they'll be in a group that will really support their early abstinence. And then at about 30 days, that counselor would kind of like look over how they've been doing where do I feel they are, I feel like they're ready to go into phase two, and do another kind of like low key interview with that person. And then at that point, they would move on to another counselor, probably sometimes and a different groups. So like Tom's group, is an early recovery group, which I also do that online, he does the in person and I do the online version of that group. So that's kind of like a graduation from the early abstinence support and into some like, kind of digging deeper into like our communication patterns or relationships and boundaries and things like that. And maybe an individual session at that point. Like I have some established abstinence and I'd like to meet with a counselor and kind of address some of these deeper things that are surfacing at this point. My recovery nailed it was good night for 90 days, people who were like in our DUII program, they would have to provide a weekly UA negative UAS or some of our people have ommp and judge's orders, so they're allowed to use cannabis while they complete the program. I would say something important about our DUII program is that most people that I work with after 30 days like want, they're scared that they're almost done. They're like, can I keep coming to these groups? Can I stay with my counselor when I'm done in 90 days, so I feel like they may enter into like walkthrough crew solicit doors kind of like something I have to do. And it's been really expensive and it's maybe carrying some shame about it. And it's, you know, this big, looming scary thing. And then by the time they get 30 days in, they're kind of like, I'd like this. And I really need the support in my life. And to see that is super cool.
Hana Francis:That's awesome. And can people continue?
Tom Hurd:Yeah.
Hana Francis:To access services through chrysalis, you can fill out a form online or in person. Sometimes people are referred to Chrysalis from other departments of White Bird, or other local organizations.
Hilary Hildebrand:I don't know how long this has been an option, because I'm, I've only been there about a year and a few months, you can go online, and you can find our kind of intake interest form, I guess we would call it I don't know what we would call that. But you can fill it out, and then somebody will get back to you, and they'll help you make an appointment to get an intake with a counselor. Is that right, Tom?
Tom Hurd:So the intake pack that Hilary is talking about, they're gonna go and fill out is actually a bio psychosocial. So it's a pretty exhaustive, intrusive questionnaire about people's lives. So yeah, that's, that's online. The one for the, if they're coming straight for like mental health support with like a master's level therapist, to a little bit different form, we don't get so intrusive about substance use, but it's in there. But all that stuff's available online. That's the way I understand now our office staff, that's their preferences, it comes electronically, instead of people coming in, pick them up and fill it out or whatever that's seems to work slicker for them in that way.
Hana Francis:These ways of using electronic forms and technology have been helpful in recent years, to make things faster and more convenient to access both for clients and the provider. There's also been an increase in telehealth meeting online, especially during the pandemic, which also has pluses and minuses. Some would say that it's harder to connect when they're not in person. But it has also made it possible for a lot more people to access these services who couldn't physically be there before.
Hilary Hildebrand:Well, it's just my nature to see the positive in, you know what you've said here, like, I do think that we wouldn't be in a place to serve as many members who like we have really rural folks joining our groups via telehealth and able to check in with a counselor now, and that wasn't a regular practice at White Bird before the pandemic. So being able to make those connections and support people through a whole DUI program that live like an hour and a half away and don't have access to services is like, well worth getting back, getting our train back on the tracks as far as making it into work more regularly, which is us. I mean, I really don't want to get out of my sweats. But it probably is time for us all to come back in and get to know each other. And especially since I started working at White Bird during the pandemic, I have coworkers who have only seen in person like two or three times. That makes that camaraderie and teamwork. Much more difficult to see them just like this on Zoom once a week for an hour is just not enough. For me.
Tom Hurd:The biggest challenge we're having right now is we're understaffed a little bit. And even if we were at, I mean, even now. Our building is too small. There's not enough private offices to do one to one work. I have been working outdoors for years now because of that. We go for walks some people don't want to do it, some people do. We figure it out. That's that's what I would say is this. We have an opportunity to grow and I think there's a need in the community. But it's hard right now. COVID was a big monkey wrench. So we all went remotes, and I mean more than just physically right it like really created some barriers and changed a lot of people's work habits, mine included. Made it quite a bit more difficult to stay connected to the work and to the team, made it really easy to just... Yeah, just to be at home.
Hana Francis:What kind of resources do you folks think you'd need to, like, overcome those challenges or meet those challenges?
Tom Hurd:If I knew I'd be pushing us to do that. So it's a puzzle right now for me. I don't I don't know. I mean, I don't think it's... Yeah, I don't know.
Hilary Hildebrand:Feels like coming to a place of like true equanimity, with what we're facing. As far as like barriers and being able to connect to people. And the people who do maybe prefer to work from home or have to work from home most of the time, versus the people who really like to be in the office and or are able to be in the office more hours during the week. And for us all to just kind of say, like, let's find a way to just make this work. Like if you like to come into work, and see your co workers all the time. Maybe you'll do more face to face work. And these folks have a harder time getting in. Maybe they do more of the telehealth aspect. But we've kind of gone like over the last year like let's all get back in person and let's get rid of all the telehealth that isn't working to like, Well, we really there are definitely, like important folks at chrysalis in our community who rely on us who can't get to Chrysalis. And it's easy to say like, well, they found a way to get to Chrysalis before the pandemic, but maybe those people didn't. Maybe these are the people who could never find a way to Chrysalis. So that's where I am like I was big on the like, let's all get back in and I'm like wow. After listening to a lot of other agencies, like across the nation, talk about how important telehealth has been in removing barriers and like like we actually do really need to keep telehealth as much as we have in person we need to offer and telehealth.
Hana Francis:Another special thing about Chrysalis is the peer support program. Peer support has been a consistent practice for the last several decades. But it's only recently started being recognized for its success. And 2019 Mental Health America found that the use of peer support shortened clients inpatient visits, reduce the overall cost of services, reduce the rehospitalization numbers, increased use of outpatient services, and raise overall quality of life. This sense of community and camaraderie that is often a part of peer support can help people make the changes necessary in their life, to get to a more stable mental state. It brings this element of community into the behavioral health sphere so that people get support in a less formal setting, from people with firsthand experience of similar lives circumstances.
Hilary Hildebrand:I think there's something about peer support, like, just the name peer support, that people automatically enter into that relationship in a different way than like my case manager or my counselor. It's like a peer support person. And I had a client last year who was really hard for me to reach and couldn't seem to commit to appointments with me, and was kind of trying to complete a duty program. And it was like chasing this person around and kind of like hoping they could make it through. And I got them hooked up with one of our peer support people and they had a fantastic time. And then my phone was ringing off the hook, like let's do the work. And when is this peer support person coming to hang out with me again, and they peer support just got them engaged in the work so fast, like two times hanging out, and they were fully onboard. So that was amazing. That was my first experience in working closely with peer support and really communicating about a client and seeing how we can meet their needs. So that was super educational for me to see how powerful those relationships can be. We have people who see peer support three times a week.
Tom Hurd:I just played golf this morning with one of our peer supporters. It was early and foggy. You know, I mean, you Hillary really summed that up nicely, I think, especially with like a living example that really sets things in which they get to do things that we can't do with them or for them. So, I mean, sometimes they go bowling, sometimes they go out to lunch. You know? They sometimes they take them to visit sick people, sick family members in a hospital. Sometimes they'll go out and Yeah, just go for walks or whatever and it's it's a different. There's no I think that there's no expectations for performance when a client looks at a peer support person, and I think that oftentimes, they'll see me or Hillary or one of our other counselors as a person with power that they're working to try and impress in some way. So there's a different dynamic there.
Hana Francis:To access Chrysalis services, you can go online and fill out an intake form. This form is available at whitebirdclinic.org/chrysalis-behavioral-health. If you need help filling out this form, you can go to front rooms or call 541-683-1641 for assistance. That's whitebirdclinic.org/chrysalis-behavioral-health or call 541-683-1641. If you have any questions or comments, please email me at whitebirdmutualaid@gmail.com Thank you so much for listening to White Bird Mutual Aid. I'm Hana Francis.