How Artists Resist Oppression: Barbara Benish on Lessons from Cold War Czechoslovakia for Today's Democracy

In this episode, I speak with artist, curator, and author Barbara Benish about her book ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia — a hopeful, timely memoir about artistic resistance, creative community, and rebuilding culture after totalitarianism.

In This Episode:

• [0:12] Host Pam Uzzell introduces the episode, reflecting on fear of communist countries during the Cold War and how that connects to today's political climate in the US
• [2:34] Introduction to Barbara Benish's book ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia and why it feels especially relevant now
• [3:49] Barbara describes her memoir — from leaving California as a young artist to integrating into Cold War Czechoslovakia, working with underground artists, and eventually founding a rural arts center
• [6:14] Growing up in Southern California with Czech immigrant heritage, witnessing the Soviet invasion of Prague in 1968, and losing connection to the Czech language
• [7:42] Crossing the Iron Curtain as a young American backpacker — navigating fear, border crossings, and Cold War propaganda
• [10:41] Connecting with dissident artists in Prague — serendipity, secret networks, and the surveillance state
• [12:08] Life under the secret police — being followed, bugged venues, and how artists developed coded communication to resist oppression
• [13:53] Barbara's frustration with the commercialization of art in 1980s Los Angeles and what drew her to the underground art scene in Czechoslovakia
• [15:14] The Art Dialogue exchange — bringing together LA and Czech artists during the Cold War and the challenges of mounting a cross-cultural exhibition under an authoritarian regime
• [16:57] The Velvet Revolution of 1989 — why it's also called the Artist Revolution, the role of playwright-turned-president Václav Havel, and lessons from The Power of the Powerless for democracy today
• [21:47] Buying the Červený Mlýn (Red Mill) in rural Bohemia — a $17,000 ruin, a leap of faith, and the beginning of a new life
• [26:28] Renovating the mill, building a rural arts community, and the reality behind the romance
• [27:46] ArtMill today — artist residencies, children's programs, university study abroad, and regenerative creativity in rural Central Europe
• [29:12] Art as sustainability — how creative practice connects to environmental stewardship, indigenous ways of knowing, and regenerative living
• [34:42] What today's political resistance in the US has in common with Cold War Czechoslovakia — and what comes after resistance
• [38:45] Barbara reads a moving passage from ArtMill about climate, beauty, dignity, and hope for future generations
• [40:35] Where to find Barbara Benish, upcoming California readings, and how to get the book

Resources & Links:

• Barbara Benish's website: barbarabenish.com
• ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia — published by New Village Press, distributed by NYU
• Art Heals All Wounds Podcast: arthealsallwoundspodcast.com

Transcript

00;00;12;00 - 00;00;31;11

Pam

Do you believe art can change the world? So do I. On this show, we meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell.

00;00;47;10 - 00;01;02;07

Pam

When I was a teenager, I spent a year in Geneva, Switzerland, learning French along with other Americans, Australians and Norwegian students. Travis, one of the Americans in the group. His mother was originally from Yugoslavia.

00;01;02;09 - 00;01;12;17

Pam

One day he told us, hey, I'm going to go to Yugoslavia to meet some of my relatives there. I think all the Americans let out a collective gasp.

00;01;12;19 - 00;01;18;13

Pam

How can you go there? I remember saying, it's a communist country.

00;01;18;16 - 00;01;27;22

Pam

During the Cold War, I was really afraid of communist countries, authoritarianism, secret police, no freedom of speech.

00;01;27;24 - 00;01;36;15

Pam

I remember seeing him off the train station and thinking, well, there goes Travis. I wonder if I'll ever see him again.

00;01;36;17 - 00;01;42;29

Pam

Of course, I did see Travis again. Who reported that he'd had a wonderful time meeting his mother's family.

00;01;43;02 - 00;01;49;26

Pam

Obviously, I didn't know much about the former Yugoslavia, but any communist country meant the same thing to me.

00;01;49;28 - 00;02;05;28

Pam

No freedom. Who would want to live in a place where an authoritarian government tried to suppress people's freedom? Who released armed and dangerous forces to police their own citizens, who grabbed people off the street and threw them in detention?

00;02;05;28 - 00;02;07;10

Pam

God knows where.

00;02;07;12 - 00;02;13;26

Pam

With their families often not knowing where they were or what had happened to them.

00;02;13;28 - 00;02;21;05

Pam

It's amazing how the tables can turn in just a few decades.

00;02;21;07 - 00;02;34;13

Pam

Sometimes a book comes along at just the right time for me. A book that helps me make sense and process the fear and anger I'm feeling. Leaving me with a sense of hope.

00;02;34;15 - 00;02;37;20

Pam

A book that did that for me. Is Art Mill

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Pam

a Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia, written by

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Pam

Barbara

00;02;41;29 - 00;02;45;07

Pam

Benish an artist and curator.

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Pam

In this book,

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Pam

Barbara

00;02;46;16 - 00;02;50;02

Pam

shares her story of her curiosity about her Czech heritage,

00;02;50;02 - 00;02;53;18

Pam

her travels in the former Czechoslovakia during the Cold War,

00;02;53;25 - 00;02;58;24

Pam

and her connection and work with the community of artists living there at that time.

00;02;58;27 - 00;03;11;29

Pam

It's a hopeful story for the times we're in, sharing how artists have resisted oppressive regimes and how they can rebuild and practice regenerative creativity once these regimes fall.

00;03;12;02 - 00;03;16;13

Pam

This book was a healing remedy for me.

00;03;16;15 - 00;03;25;29

Pam

I'm so glad to be able to talk to Barbara about it on today's episode.

00;03;26;02 - 00;03;41;07

Pam

You want to know how you can really help me keep this show going? Follow me on your favorite listening app. So easy. Right? And if you really want to give the show a boost, leave me a five star rating or review.

00;03;42;15 - 00;03;49;17

Pam

Hi Barbara. Thank you so much for being on art heals all wounds today. I'm really excited to talk

00;03;49;17 - 00;03;51;16

Pam

with you about your book.

00;03;51;19 - 00;03;52;19

Barbara

Thank you.

00;03;52;21 - 00;03;54;28

Barbara

It's an honor to be here. Thank you. Pam.

00;03;55;00 - 00;04;12;16

Pam

Well, your book, ArtMIll and the subtitle of that is A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia. Your book landed at such a perfect time for me. The times we’re in the way I've been feeling.

00;04;12;19 - 00;04;18;01

Pam

In a way that I think is even more powerful than if I'd read it two years ago.

00;04;18;04 - 00;04;26;04

Pam

So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit. Just a brief idea of what this book is.

00;04;26;07 - 00;04;48;08

Barbara

Thank you. Yes. I it's also surprising to, for me, that it's coming out now of all times in U.S. history. So it's a, it's, it's a sort of a memoir. It talks about me leaving California as a young artist and moving to what was then Czechoslovakia.

00;04;48;11 - 00;04;53;26

Barbara

It talks about my, integration with that culture.

00;04;53;28 - 00;05;04;12

Barbara

Being an artist, working with artists in the underground before 1989, before the revolution, and then getting embedded in that culture there, becoming a mother,

00;05;04;12 - 00;05;15;11

Barbara

exhibiting over there after the changes in 89 and then setting up an arts center in a very rural environment. So I moved from Southern California to not just I moved from

00;05;15;12 - 00;05;20;09

Barbara

LA to Prague, but then to the complete Czech countryside, which was,

00;05;20;14 - 00;05;26;04

Barbara

I always say, it's even more of a, change than moving from L.A. to Prague.

00;05;26;04 - 00;05;27;20

Barbara

And then it talks about our

00;05;27;27 - 00;05;31;09

Barbara

organization. I founded a small NGO.

00;05;31;12 - 00;05;42;01

Barbara

and it talks about what happens in a post totalitarian society for culture and how important that is for civil society. So that's kind of it in a nutshell.

00;05;42;07 - 00;05;43;19

Pam

Yes.

00;05;43;21 - 00;05;44;24

Barbara

And of course, when I

00;05;44;27 - 00;05;53;22

Barbara

started at seven years ago, I had no idea that the tables would be turned and that these would be the lessons for my home country.

00;05;53;24 - 00;06;13;28

Pam

Right. And I first want to talk a little bit about you growing up. You know, you grew up in Southern California. What were your thoughts, feelings about your Czechoslovakian heritage at that time?

00;06;14;01 - 00;06;35;10

Barbara

So I talk about that, I think in the first or second chapter what that was like, my father's side, there were immigrants and, that was normal in the US that we're all immigrants. I know that your last name is probably also a little Czech heritage. I don't know if you know that, but that's a Czech check name.

00;06;35;14 - 00;06;36;28

Pam

Interesting.

00;06;37;00 - 00;07;05;00

Barbara

Yeah. Wow. So, anyway, so, yes, I talk about 1968 as a ten year old, what that was like to see the Soviet tanks roll in to Prague and for my family. So they had immigrated in the late 1800s, so it was a little bit removed, but we had still connections to the country and people, you know, second generation in the US.

00;07;05;00 - 00;07;24;00

Barbara

So I didn't, you know, like all immigrant, many immigrant families, they we didn't speak the language anymore. My grandmother hid it from us because they wanted to, to adapt and to be integrated. So I relearned the language when I moved back there as a 30 year old,

00;07;24;03 - 00;07;28;21

Barbara

when I finally moved back to Czech Republic, right.

00;07;28;21 - 00;07;41;26

Pam

But you went back there before you permanently, or you went there for the first time before you permanently moved there. And for those of us who grew up during the Cold War.

00;07;41;29 - 00;08;07;12

Pam

Countries behind the Iron Curtain just seemed like an impossible place to go. At least they did to me, and I would have never thought, oh, I'm going to go visit. Right, a country behind the Iron Curtain. But you did. So I'm really curious about that decision, like how you had the courage to decide, oh, I'm going to go there.

00;08;07;12 - 00;08;12;07

Pam

And also, were you worried a little bit about going there?

00;08;12;10 - 00;08;39;24

Barbara

Well, it's a really good question, especially in the climate today in the US because it's, I also grew up with that big scary big brother image of what Czechoslovakia was and the Soviet bloc countries and how evil it was. They were the enemies of the United States. But, because I have that cultural heritage, I was super curious.

00;08;39;26 - 00;08;53;15

Barbara

I wanted to find family members. I was a little crazy. Still am. But, you know, as an artist, I was curious. And I was in Europe anyway, as a 21 year old backpacking through and,

00;08;53;15 - 00;08;59;19

Barbara

I think it's really important to remember that that was a political situation that was,

00;08;59;22 - 00;09;06;06

Barbara

imposed by governments to create fear so that we would never want to go there, and vice versa.

00;09;06;09 - 00;09;12;08

Barbara

The Soviets did the same. So there in in the Czech Republic today, there are still,

00;09;12;11 - 00;09;20;09

Barbara

potato bugs city, the potatoes that are called the American bug because they destroy the potato crops. So there were all these little,

00;09;20;09 - 00;09;35;00

Barbara

things created that we would be remain enemies. Right. And I think that that idea of the myths that are created and the propaganda that goes on both sides to keep us at war with each other or

00;09;35;00 - 00;09;37;25

Barbara

to keep us, unfriendly.

00;09;37;27 - 00;09;59;19

Barbara

We need to really pay attention to that. So it's not like I was brave or I was more like, naive. I would say. And I was young and it was scary. I'm not going to be, paint a pretty picture. It was, you know, I was a stopped a lot. And crossing the border back then in the trains was not a fun thing.

00;09;59;21 - 00;10;16;26

Barbara

And especially because I would carry books and, you know, music and things that they would confiscate. So it was it was not pretty. But I was very curious to learn about that part of my family.

00;10;16;28 - 00;10;41;20

Pam

That is fascinating. I if I remember correctly, you were already an artist. I mean, not that you weren't an artist from the time you were born, but you already thought of yourself as an artist. And I'm really curious what it was like to actually connect with other artists, like how did you even do that.

00;10;41;23 - 00;10;42;00

Barbara

When.

00;10;42;00 - 00;10;44;22

Pam

You. Well when you arrived in Prague.

00;10;44;24 - 00;10;47;28

Barbara

You know, a lot of it was serendipity.

00;10;47;28 - 00;11;06;19

Barbara

I had, very good luck. Some friends would give me, you know, friends of friends would have somebody who had been there and they gave me phone numbers. So I just kind of like, did track people down and call them up. And, you know, people were very reticent to even pick up the phone, of course.

00;11;06;22 - 00;11;34;18

Barbara

Because everything was, you know, followed and, and spied upon and people would be tracked and have repercussions if they were dealing with somebody from the outside, from the West. So, you know, as I learned about that whole kind of parallel structures and got to know once I went there and was introduced to some of the artists, then I learned how to navigate that whole other underworld.

00;11;34;18 - 00;11;58;12

Barbara

Yeah. And so there's ways that you could get around it. And it's like the activists today in the US who were having such resistance that there's a whole nother system that begins to develop kind of organically. And but it's years of resistance across the world. So yeah, it was it opened up and I was very lucky. Yeah.

00;11;58;15 - 00;12;08;19

Pam

Right. Well, it's some of the more humorous parts of your book were of the Secret Police and how easily they were,

00;12;08;23 - 00;12;10;23

Pam

picked out among the rest of.

00;12;11;00 - 00;12;11;14

Barbara

Yeah.

00;12;11;17 - 00;12;24;24

Pam

The rest of the people, following you. And it was an almost like there became a code that you would speak, just assuming that every venue was bugged.

00;12;24;27 - 00;12;53;12

Barbara

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, they were they were all. And I was followed because, you know, I was an anomaly. There were virtually no Americans there then. And so I know now in retrospect that they, you know, they they were definitely have their eyes on me all the time. And especially the people who I was hanging out with and visiting because the artists that I, I got, I was fortunate enough to meet and who are, you know, my friends till today they were working, you know, they were dissidents.

00;12;53;12 - 00;13;12;23

Barbara

So. But does it mean that they were necessary out in the streets protesting, like visibly, but but the fact of the kind of work that they were making then was, was a reaction to the regime. So, anyway, I've wondered from your question.

00;13;12;23 - 00;13;26;26

Pam

Sorry, but not at all. Not at all. This is all so interesting to me because it's a it's a action that I myself would have never even thought about taking.

00;13;27;03 - 00;13;53;07

Barbara

So yeah, I, you know, it was, I write in the book that, you know, I was having some success as an artist out of, just come out of grad school. I was actually still in grad school when we did this exchange with, Czechoslovak and LA artists. And I was very frustrated with the market system, with the capitalization of art.

00;13;53;07 - 00;14;16;19

Barbara

I had been trained in installation art, coming out of paintings, so already feminist art, and that whole history was pushing the boundaries of how art is viewed and made. So I was frustrated, even though, you know, every artist, of course, wants to be supported. But it in LA and in the 80s it was boomtown for for the arts, for sure.

00;14;16;19 - 00;14;40;01

Barbara

But I was looking for, alternatives. And I had read about what had happened, you know, with the Prague Spring and 1968, that there was this opening up of this kind of socialist democracy. What would that mean? And, and these artists were create that artists that I got to meet, they were making art. It was such a rich,

00;14;40;04 - 00;14;44;05

Barbara

production and sharing and community that kept the arts alive.

00;14;44;12 - 00;15;01;23

Barbara

And there was no market, so nobody could sell work there, first of all. And then there were no there was maybe one gallery and that was an official gallery. So how did the arts thrive? So I was really curious. So that's that's what kept me going back in the 80s.

00;15;01;25 - 00;15;14;15

Pam

Right. And you created this exchange called Art Dialogue Where it was some artists from LA and then Czech artists.

00;15;14;17 - 00;15;14;27

Barbara

Who.

00;15;14;27 - 00;15;27;19

Pam

Were showing their work, exhibiting it together. And this you write about like the challenge of even being able to put on a show of this nature.

00;15;27;21 - 00;16;00;22

Barbara

Yeah, it would, you know, because again, it was still the Cold War. So Americans, we were all the enemy, but things were loosening up. It was the end of the 80s already. So there were some very they were it's the brave people who agreed to do this. And it was, you know, every day that yes, no. And, you know, as there was more one more crack in the wall, we were able to kind of make this exchange happen when, when we first proposed, it was Zdenka Gabalova, she was my co-curator there.

00;16;00;24 - 00;16;18;12

Barbara

I always said it's going to be an exchange. And they all laughed and they said this, you know, they had never left the country, that half of them didn't have passports at that point. And I thought, we're going to start in Prague. We're going to bring our work there from LA, and then we're going to bring you guys to L.A. next year.

00;16;18;15 - 00;16;34;12

Barbara

And I kind of went, yeah, yeah, you crazy, crazy lady. And then, of course, you know, the world changed in November of 1989 and we were able to bring them, you know, through a lot of very generous people and fundraising. We brought them to LA and we showed them there too.

00;16;34;15 - 00;16;57;05

Pam

Right, right. So it did happen. And, it's so interesting, you know, all of the countries behind the Iron Curtain, when this curtain fell, it looked differently in different countries. And the former Czechoslovakia was really interesting because,

00;16;57;05 - 00;17;01;23

Pam

it's called the Velvet Revolution.

00;17;01;26 - 00;17;19;08

Pam

And I'm hoping you can explain why it's called that. The significance of who the first president was of the new democracy. Like what is different about that for the former Czechoslovakia?

00;17;19;10 - 00;17;26;04

Barbara

Well that's a very long I'll try and give a short answer because it's a really deep question. But,

00;17;26;06 - 00;17;30;05

Barbara

the former Czechoslovakia was a little bit better off than some of the other,

00;17;30;05 - 00;17;34;01

Barbara

Soviet bloc countries at the time. You know, before,

00;17;34;04 - 00;17;41;03

Barbara

the communists take takeover, they were the third largest industrial country in Europe. Teeny tiny nation.

00;17;41;05 - 00;18;05;08

Barbara

Czechoslovakia was formed after World War One by President Masaryk. And his right hand man was Edvard Bensch. So they were able to create a new democracy after so many hundreds of years of the Hapsburg regime. So they were coming out of it was a they call it the First Republic. It was a very fruitful time, and economically it was super solid.

00;18;05;10 - 00;18;51;08

Barbara

And that carried over, I think, into, what happened after 89. So they were able to adjust, I think, to a Western market. And, you know, that's a whole nother discussion about the economics of it. But, they, they had a history already of a strong democracy. So coming out of 89 and they called the Velvet Revolution, or some people won't even call it a revolution because it was it, it I have to be careful how I say this too, because it was possibly generated and deals were made so that people would not be killed, which is how it happens.

00;18;51;08 - 00;18;52;16

Barbara

Right? But,

00;18;52;16 - 00;19;14;16

Barbara

I would say it was they also called the Artist Revolution because it was really from the ground up and, and then the, the main dissident Vaclav Havel who became president was a playwright. So here you have an artist and, and something of a philosopher who was just quoted at Davos. I don't know if you watched by but Prime Minister Carney.

00;19;14;19 - 00;19;15;24

Barbara

Right. The famous,

00;19;15;27 - 00;19;55;14

Barbara

essay The Power and the Powerless. So he had he had kind of a structure that was able to, propel this new democracy into the world that was already set up because there was a there was a moral code, there was a civil society that was his whole thrust of the civil society. And and talking about in that essay, which Carney so brilliantly brought up to, you know, this week that if we don't participate in making democracy, it die, it does go away.

00;19;55;16 - 00;20;20;02

Barbara

And so we have to take down our support in the little shop windows. That's with the red star. And I remember them in Czechoslovakia. And at that point, people were taking down the signs in the store windows, and that alone could put you in prison. So it's like being confronted. And it's exactly what's happening in the US now with that, every day decision.

00;20;20;02 - 00;20;42;29

Barbara

And I am I going to be part and parcel of this regime that's taking away all of our freedoms, or am I going to make a stand at some point? And, you know, that's what they did. And it came out of the students unrest and, and the artists who were who were right there ready for a regime change.

00;20;43;06 - 00;21;13;20

Pam

Wow, wow. I would say in the US right now, it's more do I have the courage to keep up my the science, Black Lives Matter, the pride or the trans colors flags that that's kind of where we are like, yeah, you know, essentially there's been this decree that we cannot do that anymore. And I am always I actually just got back from Seattle, and Seattle is just kind of so low key progressive.

00;21;13;25 - 00;21;32;29

Pam

It's just like we're not taking down our signs. We're putting up, you know, it's it's it's interesting. And you know, of course the Bay area as well. But. Right, I feel very fortunate to be in places where those signs of our values are not coming down. Yeah.

00;21;33;01 - 00;21;34;25

Barbara

Yeah, that's very inspiring.

00;21;34;29 - 00;21;47;17

Pam

It is, it is. And I want to skip ahead a little bit. Now, I know that there are still a lot of things of you becoming an adult, but you eventually you moved to Prague.

00;21;47;20 - 00;21;55;26

Pam

And you lived there for a while. But I want to talk about you buying this.

00;21;55;29 - 00;21;57;20

Barbara

mill.

00;21;57;23 - 00;22;05;22

Pam

Like what was this mill. Can you say its name. I have it written down as the Red mill which is the translation. But what was its name.

00;22;05;25 - 00;22;10;02

Barbara

In Czech it's Cerveny Mlyn, Red mill. Yeah.

00;22;10;03 - 00;22;18;05

Pam

Okay. What, what was this mill? Where was this mill? Why did you back this mill?

00;22;18;08 - 00;22;29;08

Barbara

It's a long story, but basically, Prague was getting expensive, you know, for I had, two kids, by now two little babies, and,

00;22;29;10 - 00;22;37;26

Barbara

there was some personal things which I talk a hint about in the book that were not working and were getting very,

00;22;37;28 - 00;22;48;26

Barbara

anxiety ridden. So I needed to leave Prague. And many artists were also leaving Prague just because of the, the increase in cost.

00;22;48;28 - 00;22;52;03

Barbara

And, you know, as tourism rose after 89,

00;22;52;03 - 00;23;04;20

Barbara

it became kind of unaffordable for artists, which was really unfortunate, but the silver lining is that, so I started looking. I had I had a tiny savings of $17,000, and,

00;23;04;20 - 00;23;08;00

Barbara

I spent it all on this old ruin that I found,

00;23;08;03 - 00;23;11;09

Barbara

with my then partner, the father of my children.

00;23;11;09 - 00;23;25;16

Barbara

And he's an architect. And we thought this, even if we tear it down, it's a beautiful spot. And we'll see what happens if we can. So we camped there basically for the first few years and kind of renovated and,

00;23;25;19 - 00;23;31;19

Barbara

yeah, it was a big change into a complete rural agricultural environment.

00;23;31;21 - 00;23;57;09

Pam

Right. And of course, well, your whole book, I just have to tell you, feels like a fairy tale and not like the Disney fairy tale, the princesses, but more like the some of the darker fairy tales where there's, like, this one fairy tale that kept popping into my mind was The Wild Swans, which I don't know if you're familiar with that fairy tale.

00;23;57;12 - 00;24;11;15

Pam

It's a bit dark, but in terms of having an insurmountable task that is actually accomplished in order to do well, to create freedom for some people.

00;24;11;17 - 00;24;12;08

Barbara

Yeah, yeah.

00;24;12;08 - 00;24;13;27

Pam

And,

00;24;14;00 - 00;24;22;14

Pam

your whole book reminds me of that. But especially when we get to this mill, there's such a sense of romance about it. Which I bet you can dispel.

00;24;22;16 - 00;24;23;03

Barbara

The.

00;24;23;06 - 00;24;25;14

Pam

Idea a little bit.

00;24;25;17 - 00;24;43;22

Barbara

It's it's both, actually. And, you know, it is. The book is a love story to the mill. It is. It is my heart. Place it. I found a new home. I built a new home there with my family. And it's the it's the region where my,

00;24;43;22 - 00;24;55;25

Barbara

children's father was born. So they have very deep, deep, you know, generational contact there to the their grandmother still alive.

00;24;55;28 - 00;25;04;17

Barbara

So it's I fell in love with it. And we do have swans. It's on the lake. So it is this very romantic. You’re right,

00;25;04;22 - 00;25;16;00

Barbara

beautiful place. But, you know, that part of the world has a very dark history, too. So the two goes hand in hand, and you cannot escape the history of that place.

00;25;16;03 - 00;25;25;26

Barbara

You know, Czechoslovakia was was, it was part of the Third Reich at some point, you know, Hitler was there for three years under the protectorate.

00;25;25;29 - 00;25;51;25

Barbara

He Prague was his jewel that he wanted. There has been a long history of the Czechs and Germans. You know, co-mingling co-living on that land. And, you know, during the First Republic, it thrived. There was German, Yiddish, Czech, all spoken together. And it was it was a, you know, a hotbed of creativity. And then, of course, World War Two came and and all that ended, sadly.

00;25;51;25 - 00;25;55;09

Barbara

So you you have both there. You know.

00;25;55;11 - 00;26;00;14

Pam

Right, right. Well, the part that.

00;26;00;16 - 00;26;09;07

Pam

I think I'm probably romanticizing is what it took to renovate the mill.

00;26;09;09 - 00;26;12;28

Barbara

Because you do keep.

00;26;13;01 - 00;26;27;26

Pam

A lot of it. It sounds very integrated into the natural space, and your goal seemed like it was to not disturb that, but you had to create someplace that was habitable, right?

00;26;27;28 - 00;26;28;16

Barbara

Yes.

00;26;28;20 - 00;26;45;16

Barbara

So it wasn't really planned. The. It's not like I said, oh, I'm going to find a place in the rural countryside and renovate it slowly but surely, and build an art center in the middle of Central Europe that it that it it just happened and that that's the story I wanted to tell that anybody can do this.

00;26;45;16 - 00;27;07;13

Barbara

It's not like I, I had a lot of funding. I didn't it it and it was just a life. That's all. And, and I tried to live that life with integrity. And it was a lot of hard work still is. My eldest daughter is now now running it and and my youngest daughter is there all the time working in the gardens, in the field.

00;27;07;13 - 00;27;35;08

Barbara

So it's it it you can one can romanticize it. Yes. It's fabulous. And there's, there's beauty around every single day. But it is a hard life. But you know, we don't get anything if we don't struggle. Right? So it's, that's part of it. The the harder the struggle, the greater the return. So. Right. No regrets. Yeah.

00;27;35;11 - 00;27;46;02

Pam

Right. And when you say your eldest daughter is running it, you're talking about it's now an art center. I mean, it's a place where people live. It's more like I would say it's an artist retreat.

00;27;46;04 - 00;28;09;01

Barbara

Yes, yes, we do residencies, which I started in 2004. We started with a summer camp for kids. So we our whole focus is on the environment and art. So how does creativity and the environment come together. And and so we started with children. Then that turned into study abroad programs with the university. We've done Erasmus programs in Europe.

00;28;09;01 - 00;28;39;16

Barbara

That's an exchange of university, cross-cultural exchanges. We've had exhibitions. I ran a gallery for seven years in our little village. So it's all about how rural culture brings not just sustainable economics to the region, but how community is built in rural environments. And I wanted to tell the story as a foreigner and as a woman in a very patriarchal, traditional society.

00;28;39;21 - 00;28;56;11

Barbara

How how that happened. And again, it wasn't planned, it just happened. So that's what I'm hoping it will give inspiration to other women that maybe in a post totalitarian environment it's possible to rebuild.

00;28;56;14 - 00;29;08;10

Pam

Right? And that's the truly beautiful part of this book is. How you talk about.

00;29;08;13 - 00;29;12;12

Pam

Art as also a practice of sustainability.

00;29;12;14 - 00;29;30;14

Pam

And I really would love if you could talk about that a little bit more. Is that something that you always thought or has this grown out of living in this rural space. And yeah. How did how did this become really so important to you?

00;29;30;16 - 00;29;33;09

Barbara

I don't know how it became important. I've always,

00;29;33;09 - 00;29;36;15

Barbara

been I think I've always been an artist.

00;29;36;18 - 00;29;53;23

Barbara

But being over there in that particular environment, in that particular history kind of redefined and synthesized my ideas on that. So I was fortunate enough to, you know, be able to work at a global level too, not just rural.

00;29;53;23 - 00;30;18;05

Barbara

So eventually I was working with the United Nations and, working all over the world with other artists who were doing very similar things. So it's not just me or it's not just our region, but it's happening all over and and I think it's a reaction to our own, to the globalization that's happened in the world. And then I was able to work with a colleague,

00;30;18;05 - 00;30;18;28

Barbara

Nathalie Blanc.

00;30;18;28 - 00;30;49;24

Barbara

We wrote a couple books on it. So it's about how the form of art is actually changing. So after modernism and after postmodernism, the, the, the process of art has completely changed now, which I think is very liberating and it's radical. So what's happening in these rural environments is a place where creativity can be restored, because without creativity we don't have a chance.

00;30;49;26 - 00;31;15;27

Barbara

So, you know, artists are problem solvers. So it's not just we're not just painting pictures. We we are keeping these resources in our bodies and in our hearts for how to transform the world. And so the form that we bring out into the world can be very, very different in whatever place or whatever person it happens to be coming through.

00;31;15;27 - 00;31;38;19

Barbara

But it's actually a very indigenous way of looking at the world and being in the world. So it's a way of creating for future generations, not just for this particular time period, for example. That's one way. It's a it's a way of engaging with creator or whatever you want to call that thing greater than us as human beings,

00;31;38;22 - 00;31;45;01

Barbara

engaging with the non-human world and and being walking equally with that.

00;31;45;01 - 00;32;00;08

Barbara

So it's a lot of those things that's, that's not particular just to Czech Republic or Central Europe or even Europe. But it's, it's, I think, part of our human, our human existence.

00;32;00;10 - 00;32;12;02

Pam

Do you think everyone should begin to think of themselves as creators in this way? Do you think we can?

00;32;12;04 - 00;32;38;11

Barbara

I think we can. I don't think there's any shoulds. There's never any shoulds. It's what each person needs and wants and. But every person can definitely. Yeah. And I, I really I mean that's why I started the school that if we can you know you have children I think also right. Yes. No. I always like to say the children are closest to the earth because they're short, right.

00;32;38;13 - 00;33;16;01

Barbara

They're still small, but they're still integrated into the rhythms of the earth and nature. And, you know, unfortunately, I think our education systems and our social systems take this away from that connection slowly as we become integrated into what we call society. So I think what we've tried to do at Art mill is to have a little tiny model of how to keep reconnected to that, because that is the source and that connection to the earth and to nature is really the source of it's the source of life.

00;33;16;01 - 00;33;43;04

Barbara

Right? So if we if if we're disconnected from that, as many of us are in the Western world, then what happens to our psyche? You know, I mean, the amount, because I've also taught in the US, in California, at the universities, you know, the amount of dystopic, of depression, of of anxiety is off the charts, as we know.

00;33;43;06 - 00;34;04;08

Barbara

And the statistics tell us that. And in the West in general. So, that idea of sustainable creativity, it's kind of an odd term. And I would change it now. We really don't use the word sustainable so much as regenerative, because we can't take for granted that it's still there. Right?

00;34;04;10 - 00;34;04;25

Pam

Right.

00;34;04;25 - 00;34;05;12

Barbara

Yeah.

00;34;05;14 - 00;34;42;01

Pam

Right. Well, I'm going to ask you a question and you can say to me, that is a ridiculously large question, but I am wondering if. As we watch what's happening in the US right now, is your mind going back to those first visits to Prague and are you thinking of ways that artists now can?

00;34;42;03 - 00;34;53;03

Pam

Besides resisting, I think it is what you're talking about. Also, is this regenerative creativity, because I think that this will be resisted. But what comes next?

00;34;53;06 - 00;34;53;16

Barbara

Yeah.

00;34;53;17 - 00;34;57;12

Pam

How do you make people want to go to that next thing.

00;34;57;14 - 00;35;28;07

Barbara

That's that's you know, ironically, I didn't know it when this book would come out that this would all be happening. But but this what we started at Art mill was right after 1989. So it the the country, the region, the culture was devastated. There was nothing. People were so poor and, and and without I'll give you an example.

00;35;28;07 - 00;35;48;03

Barbara

Like when my kids were little and I'd take them to the little preschool kindergarten down in our village. And I got to, you know, with all the other mothers and, and we'd be waiting there and it was on a busy, very busy street. And I said, you know, all these trucks because it's central Europe. So they were going straight through.

00;35;48;03 - 00;36;12;22

Barbara

It was a kind of truck line in front of the old schoolhouse, which, by the way, my, my children's grandfather had gone to. So I had this really, like, defensive mother mode of the school and the kids crossing the road. It was dangerous and the trucks went too fast. So I said to all the mothers at the bus stop, why don't we organize and let's let's, you know, get the mayor to say, they can't do this anymore.

00;36;12;22 - 00;36;33;05

Barbara

And we're going to put up some signs and we're going to really enforce the speed limit, blah, blah, blah. And, and all the mothers were very intimidated by that because they had had they had been raised in a society that taught them, you want to survive, you stay quiet, you want your children to grow up and go to university.

00;36;33;05 - 00;37;02;07

Barbara

You follow the rules because so much could be taken away. So I think going back to your question about right now is that Americans are remembering that the value of our freedoms, that they can never be taken for granted. And so there's creativity happening every day on the streets. It's amazing the signs, the mariachi bands

00;37;02;07 - 00;37;07;10

Barbara

outside the ice hotels, you know, there's so many beautiful,

00;37;07;13 - 00;37;09;07

Barbara

signs of creativity.

00;37;09;07 - 00;37;37;19

Barbara

So I agree with you, I think I think something's turned the corner. It's not over yet, but I think something has turned the corner. And that rural places especially have the capacity. First of all, they're important because that's where the food is grown. So that's kind of, that's, that's a good thing to have in your pocket if you're in charge of the food.

00;37;37;22 - 00;37;52;04

Barbara

Right. That's how the Czechs did it. They had the meat out in the countryside, and they had the food. So that was a, you know, kind of a building block afterwards. So.

00;37;52;07 - 00;38;04;12

Barbara

I think that there I hope, you know, when I wrote the book, I hoped it would be kind of a guidebook for people to just. Oh, I could do that. Why not? Right. Not that hard. Yeah.

00;38;04;15 - 00;38;14;05

Pam

Right. Right. Well, it's a very inspiring book? It definitely. It definitely left me feeling.

00;38;14;07 - 00;38;14;21

Barbara

Hopeful.

00;38;14;22 - 00;38;25;29

Pam

Because it is good to be reminded. This is not the first time in history that people have resisted oppression.

00;38;26;01 - 00;38;26;21

Barbara

Right?

00;38;26;24 - 00;38;45;05

Pam

I think that we are at a point right now with climate that is very different. I am hoping would you be willing to read there's one paragraph that I thought really brought this up nicely.

00;38;45;07 - 00;39;13;00

Barbara

And what page is it on in your copy? 221 so yes, we're at the very end and I write our quote, House is on fire. As Greta Thunberg has warned us. Yet the beauty of our planet is still around us in this moment. Small countries like the former Czechoslovakia, enslaved by the Habsburg Empire before winning independence in 1918, also kept some sense of connection to the land.

00;39;13;02 - 00;39;34;02

Barbara

And that is one of the pearls that I hope this book will reveal to remember the seasons will turn, and to keep our feet in the earth and our heads up to watch the burning golden leaves fall from the cherry trees in autumn. If this is the last generation, then let us live it with dignity and beauty. But I don't think it is.

00;39;34;04 - 00;39;55;16

Barbara

Our creative selves offer hope that solutions will be found and our everyday lives, may become simpler, slower in a newfound rhythm that resonates to light and shadow. Not on and off. We can discover a smaller footprint that can possibly bring us again to creative connection to our planet.

00;39;55;19 - 00;40;01;00

Pam

That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

00;40;01;02 - 00;40;03;02

Barbara

Well…

00;40;03;05 - 00;40;14;16

Pam

I, I enjoyed every word of this book and I'm wondering, is there anything that you would like to say that I didn't ask you about in this conversation?

00;40;14;19 - 00;40;35;04

Barbara

I think you've covered it all. I'm looking for it. I'll be in, I'm coming to California in 2 or 3 weeks to do some readings, and I'll be around up and down the coast in LA, and I hope San Francisco, too. Oh, I hope so. Yeah, yeah. So, I'll keep you posted.

00;40;35;06 - 00;40;47;15

Pam

Thank you. And before we leave, can you tell people how they can find out more about you and more about this book, and also maybe more about these, places you'll be visiting?

00;40;47;18 - 00;41;16;27

Barbara

So, I don't have all the dates completely firmed yet, but between February 15th and March 15th, I think they'll be about five readings. One will be at Diesel Bookstore in L.A., there'll be one at UCSC, UC Santa Cruz. There will be one down in Newport Beach and, another one in San Francisco. But I'll I'll keep you posted on the date and so people can find me.

00;41;16;27 - 00;41;36;21

Barbara

My name is Barbara Benish Bennis h barbarabenish.com. And the book is put out by New Village Press. You can find on their website. It's distributed by NYU, and I think it's in bookstores, in California now, so.

00;41;36;23 - 00;41;45;29

Pam

Well, thank you so much. I think anyone who's looking for hope and inspiration right now should pick up this book.

00;41;46;01 - 00;41;51;07

Barbara

Thank you. Thanks so much, Pam.

00;41;51;09 - 00;42;05;16

Pam

You're listening to Art heals all wounds.

00;42;07;28 - 00;42;18;01

Pam

Thank you so much to Barbara Benish for coming to Art heals All Wounds. To talk about her book, ArtMill: A Story of Sustainable Creativity in Bohemia.

00;42;18;02 - 00;42;34;14

Pam

If you're looking for a hopeful read about how to resist authoritarianism and how to find your path as an artist, this book is probably for you. I'll put various links on how to find out more about Barbara and her work, and where to find the book.

00;42;34;17 - 00;42;56;22

Pam

Thank you for listening today. I'm not using social media right now, so if you need to get in touch, you can do it through my website. Art Heals All Wounds podcast.com. If you share this episode with only one person who you think might be interested in the topic, that will help the show continue to grow. Thanks again!

00;42;56;25 - 00;43;09;06

Pam

The music you've heard. This podcast was by Ketsa and Lobo Loco and Barbara Higbie.